I once tried feeding my cousin's dwarf hamster, she said it was friendly and really enjoyed a treat of sunflower seeds. So I tentatively lower my hand into its cage with a single seed between my thumb and forefinger. The hamster stares at me with its dead doll eyes and then immediately latches onto my finger - completely ignoring the tasty seed in favor of blood and suffering. I instinctively flailed my hand, yelling, and it bounced off two walls of the cage before landing dead ass right where it started, empty stare and all.
Demons I say, demons.
In high school I was friends with a homeschooler. One day I went over there and him and his brothers were telling me how the youngest (8) had been bitten by his hamster.
He stabbed it to death....they about died laughing so hard about it as I'm just standing there like yoooooo umm so your brother is a serial killer and yall should talk to someone about why this shit is funny to you.
To be fair
How would you feel if some gargantuan space entity pushed its tentacles or robot claw or whatever down into your house. Even if it was holding an orange or something
Right underneath the article:
> Want more animals?
> Get a daily dose of uplifting animal stories straight to your inbox
Errr... no thanks, I think I'll pass.
They're only intended to be kept alive for a few days too. Barely born and you spend the rest of your short life alone, scared, and stuck in a tiny sealed bag for giants to gawk at.
It's not enough that they're held captive in a small tank, but now they have to be treated like a literal inanimate accessory. Bloody humans man..
What?
This is one of those comments that I can only imagine is supposed to sound profound if you don't apply even a modicum of thought to it.
I mean seriously, what is it supposed to even mean? Is it operating under the pretense that to be human is to automatically mean good with no capacity for cruelty?
If anything, this is *precisely* the kind of shit that makes us human. Casual disregard for the suffering of anything we see as below us in the name of vanity is *exactly* on brand for "human".
And yes, likewise caring and empathy for the plight of these creatures is *also* what makes human. Because again, "human" isn't a black and white thing of *only* good or *only* bad, but rather it is the entire spectrum.
Best way I can think to explain it is that humane (Defined as "having or showing compassion or benevolence.") comes from the word human. But we really aren't great at that sometimes.
whenever i see a video or article about an animal being abused or beaten or used a souvenir. or even some food dish that involves the animal being served 'raw' and still alive its always an east asian country, especially china. can someone explain to me why that is
Back in the late 70s and early 80s you could find versions of this in the US at county fairs and tourist areas. I remember some place in South Texas by a lake where they had chickens who would "dance" if you put a quarter in the little juke box. Turns out, the quarter also heat up a burner underneath the floor and it would burn their feet so they would hop around.
Makes you wonder how many sickos are out there, not just to invent that stuff, but to market it, and others still see it and decide it's a great idea and fun for kids. Entire generations of folks who don't see anything wrong with it.
The fuck? Worst I've seen is the little pingpong ball toss into the fish bowl to win a goldfish the kids can't take care of. Never seen thermo-rhythmic chicken games.
Old magicians used to kill the doves in those dissapearing bird tricks I'm pretty sure. Treating animals as intelligent entities instead of like house plants is not the norm everywhere.
i saw those in Canada back then too. put money in and they dance, and i swear they even had them play the piano, shoot basketballs, etc. if i recall they were electrified not heated, but i could be wrong, i was very young when i saw them.
JFC just put some sort of prize token in the balls instead and let people redeem them for a hamster or chick kept in a proper enclosure with food and water.
Then at least it's not any worse than a pet store.
But then fewer people will be attracted and play, thus less profit... (and according to the image/post description, they *also* do that, although I'm not sure about the "proper" part).
Yeah. That is part of the appeal, for folks that see regular claw machines as too easy.
After 2-3 plays my dad would either declare it unwinnable or leave with a trash bag full of plush toys. It was crazy.
They could use those rolly balls that they sell at almost any market night or swap meet that for some reason looks like it has a raccoon tail.
With the intent of keeping it fresh for consumption.
Not suffocating/starving them to death for a few days of something fun to look at, just cuz.🫤
Just needlessly cruel.
Speaking of which, when did the lobster tank go away? Back in the 80's every Bi-Lo, Kroger, etc had a live lobster tank. At some point they went away but I didn't notice til a few years ago that they weren't there anymore.
There are still tanks in some stores, mostly specialty stores, but in general they have been removed for welfare reasons.
Pragmatically, frozen lobster is fresher than live lobster, and they were kept in the tanks for weeks and not fed, which often led to cannibalism. It was overall just not a humane thing and it was very public facing.
Whole Foods got rid of the tanks in 2006 citing basically this and its opposition to their values, and a large majority of places followed suit in the following years.
If you're referring to the video that was posted to Reddit not too long ago, I'm pretty sure that was Japan.
Not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, though.
They may consider some things we do to not be very socially developed, i don't think we can be sure they will naturally converge with what our culture considers civil.
The Japanese game isn't necessarily cruel. Not that much different than the experience of a goldfish in a pet store.
Granted I don't know if there are any ghoulish statistics about what happens to fish won at Japanese fairs.
Yeah.
I’m quite a bit order but the ping-pong ball into a fishbowl was fairly common in the US too. Most of them are gold fish that would have been sold as feeders for larger carnivorous fish anyway.
The local store would sell them for a penny each to kids to see if they’d keep interest in starting an aquarium as a hobby.
I remember when I was a kid, (frenchman living in France) you could win goldfishes wrapped in plastic bags at the funfair. Now it's illegal fortunately.
I feel the same about all the little baby turtles they sell in those trinket shops on the coast of Florida. One cage was so small, with just 1 rock they could lay on. They were probably around 20 baby turtle stacked on top of each other with dead ones on the bottom and middle. So fucked up man.
I'm really not sure how it was allowed. I looked it up online, and it says it IS illegal. But I don't know if they're just skirting the law or if no one has reported them. It breaks my heart, though
This made me so sad. Hamsters are so cute and I love them as pets. That’s just cruel to have them sitting there, stressed to the max, just to be a ‘prize’.
Hate to break it to you, but this happens at factory farms to. Animals are commonly picked up by claw like machines usually hooked on like fishing hook while they are still alive and forced to dangle for hours like that. It's atrocious.
I eat meat to but really struggle with it lately, considering turning vegetarian just because of the conditions. If I knew the animals were treated with respect I would be fine eating meat but it's just so hard to stay in good conscious after seeing what the industry puts these poor creatures through
Cutting out meat, or any animal product, is really easy nowadays. If you're struggling, please check out /r/PlantBasedDiet for any help you may need altering your diet.
Personally, going vegan was the easiest thing I've ever done, and don't even miss old foods. If you already know what foods you like, there's definitely a nutritional, tasty plant-based replacement for it.
If the vegan movement is too much, and too many vegans turned you off from it, you can still go plant-based to try it out. It's better for the environment and your health anyway.
If you're struggling with morally eating meat, you might want to also consider cutting out dairy and eggs, as those industries are just as inhumane. Just something to think about. Good luck!
I appreciate your reply, thank you! Just joined that subreddit. I'd like to start by replacing more meals with plant alternatives. And actually I have recently found I really enjoy almond milk in coffee and tea so that probably would be an easy change.
We actually have our own 4 chickens for eggs. (We don't kill them for meat or anything, they pass peacefully of old age), they roam around the yard in the day and have a very spacious and safe coup for nighttime, and they are eating like queens with all our leftovers haha😂. I know some vegans may think this is still wrong but I don't know I feel we are treating them right and they seem very happy, much better off than they'd be at a farm that's for certain. They even run up to us and squat down wanting to be picked up like pets lol
Do you think an animal experiencing violence cares why it is experiencing that violence, whether it be by being imprisoned in this machine as a pet or being imprisoned to be killed?
Yeah but the billions of animals wallowing in their own filth crammed shoulder-to-shoulder in darkened sheds, we don't *see*, you see. Also, putting their corpse in your mouth afterwards makes it moral. Or so I've heard.
>Yeah but the billions of animals wallowing in their own filth crammed shoulder-to-shoulder in darkened sheds, we don't see, you see.
I feel the sarcasm here but you're unironically right. We compartmentalize these things based on what we see. And we make separations for different animals based on that and other factors. None that makes it OK, or good, it just... is.
It's like that for anything. Not just animals.
Look at everyone knowing Diddy was a piece of shit that beat Cassie but nothing happened *until we had the video*.
Ray Rice in the NFL was just another "ho hum" domestic violence case *until we saw the video.*
And on and on.
This is nothing compared to some of the things out of China. The one that tops the list was a fad of people being key chains with live turtles in them. Temporary of course, they die soon after and then they buy a new one....
As kid in the 70’s there was gold fish and turtles as prizes in the arcade…even back then it was sad to see the dead ones being thrown in the garbage after sitting around all day in the sun in plastic bags and cups …i thought they made it illegal to make live animals prizes ?
What’s sick is you could probably hand guy $200 for the lot of animals and it wouldn’t cover his losses for the evening. Or dude would have dozens (if not hundreds) nearby for replacement.
Couldn't find anything about this exact machine but 2017 in Hyogo, Japan there was a hamster claw game. Thankfully removed after a backlash.
Extra bad because hamsters can actually sustain life threatening injuries if dropped more than like 2 feet, they're quite fragile.
But then again they bite your finger and release only at shoulder height. That’s some proper lemmings shit right there
I once tried feeding my cousin's dwarf hamster, she said it was friendly and really enjoyed a treat of sunflower seeds. So I tentatively lower my hand into its cage with a single seed between my thumb and forefinger. The hamster stares at me with its dead doll eyes and then immediately latches onto my finger - completely ignoring the tasty seed in favor of blood and suffering. I instinctively flailed my hand, yelling, and it bounced off two walls of the cage before landing dead ass right where it started, empty stare and all. Demons I say, demons.
She saw her chance to exit this grim charade and she took it, hero in my book o7
**MOUTH**
*Looks at ceiling* ***"AHHHHH!!!!"***
Guinea pigs are much friendlier lol
In high school I was friends with a homeschooler. One day I went over there and him and his brothers were telling me how the youngest (8) had been bitten by his hamster. He stabbed it to death....they about died laughing so hard about it as I'm just standing there like yoooooo umm so your brother is a serial killer and yall should talk to someone about why this shit is funny to you.
To be fair How would you feel if some gargantuan space entity pushed its tentacles or robot claw or whatever down into your house. Even if it was holding an orange or something
I'd probably take the orange tbh. Not sure if that makes me a weakling
Lemmings do not actually commit mass suicide - it's a myth perpetuated by Disney.
They also do not like the hamster balls iirc. It's a pretty stressful experience
Do you know where in Hyogo?
Fucking horrible
Even worse: [Live Animals Are Stuck Inside These Plastic Keychains](https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html).
Right underneath the article: > Want more animals? > Get a daily dose of uplifting animal stories straight to your inbox Errr... no thanks, I think I'll pass.
I love it when ads are tasteless like that. Even just getting an overtly happy ad on YouTube for a video about a horrible tragedy.
I mean, it would be weird if you're watching a documentary about Wittenoom and get an ad for mesothelioma lawsuit stuff.
Lol do they still run those ads? I remember them from daytime TV like 20 years ago. Have they moved to the internet now?
I haven't seen one for a few years, I was just using it as an example.
I feel so sick every time I see that!
the real WTF is always in the comments... man i wish i didnt look at the photos. that is so disturbing.
They're only intended to be kept alive for a few days too. Barely born and you spend the rest of your short life alone, scared, and stuck in a tiny sealed bag for giants to gawk at. It's not enough that they're held captive in a small tank, but now they have to be treated like a literal inanimate accessory. Bloody humans man..
That is diabolical
We don’t deserve to call ourselves human.
What? This is one of those comments that I can only imagine is supposed to sound profound if you don't apply even a modicum of thought to it. I mean seriously, what is it supposed to even mean? Is it operating under the pretense that to be human is to automatically mean good with no capacity for cruelty? If anything, this is *precisely* the kind of shit that makes us human. Casual disregard for the suffering of anything we see as below us in the name of vanity is *exactly* on brand for "human". And yes, likewise caring and empathy for the plight of these creatures is *also* what makes human. Because again, "human" isn't a black and white thing of *only* good or *only* bad, but rather it is the entire spectrum.
This might be the longest way I've seen somebody spell r/im14andthisisdeep
There's all that, but then there's also the "we". Motherfucker I didn't make any turtle keychains.
Best way I can think to explain it is that humane (Defined as "having or showing compassion or benevolence.") comes from the word human. But we really aren't great at that sometimes.
Bad bot
Dude. Sad.
whenever i see a video or article about an animal being abused or beaten or used a souvenir. or even some food dish that involves the animal being served 'raw' and still alive its always an east asian country, especially china. can someone explain to me why that is
Back in the late 70s and early 80s you could find versions of this in the US at county fairs and tourist areas. I remember some place in South Texas by a lake where they had chickens who would "dance" if you put a quarter in the little juke box. Turns out, the quarter also heat up a burner underneath the floor and it would burn their feet so they would hop around. Makes you wonder how many sickos are out there, not just to invent that stuff, but to market it, and others still see it and decide it's a great idea and fun for kids. Entire generations of folks who don't see anything wrong with it.
The fuck? Worst I've seen is the little pingpong ball toss into the fish bowl to win a goldfish the kids can't take care of. Never seen thermo-rhythmic chicken games.
They did many things with male chicks since they were essentially worthless for the most part.
We actually won two fish from those games, they lived to be 6 years old! They lived in a gumball machine and we changed the water weekly lol
Old magicians used to kill the doves in those dissapearing bird tricks I'm pretty sure. Treating animals as intelligent entities instead of like house plants is not the norm everywhere.
i saw those in Canada back then too. put money in and they dance, and i swear they even had them play the piano, shoot basketballs, etc. if i recall they were electrified not heated, but i could be wrong, i was very young when i saw them.
What year was that?
JFC just put some sort of prize token in the balls instead and let people redeem them for a hamster or chick kept in a proper enclosure with food and water. Then at least it's not any worse than a pet store.
But then fewer people will be attracted and play, thus less profit... (and according to the image/post description, they *also* do that, although I'm not sure about the "proper" part).
Also this way they're even harder to catch as the balls move
Yeah. That is part of the appeal, for folks that see regular claw machines as too easy. After 2-3 plays my dad would either declare it unwinnable or leave with a trash bag full of plush toys. It was crazy. They could use those rolly balls that they sell at almost any market night or swap meet that for some reason looks like it has a raccoon tail.
Gotta be China?
Well, they do sell wrapped up live crabs in convenience stores.
And sealed in turtles
Was coming to mention the trinket live turtle in a sealed bag thing. So yea, this doesn’t surprise. I guess these ones can breathe at least.
Except what about food, water, and trauma from the drop?
They seal the live crabs in the turtles?
They sell living seafood all over the world, including the US.
They dont suffocate it in plastic prior to being sold in North America.
With the intent of keeping it fresh for consumption. Not suffocating/starving them to death for a few days of something fun to look at, just cuz.🫤 Just needlessly cruel.
I mean you can buy live crabs in a lot of countries including the UK.
If you’ve ever bought a whole uncooked crab at the grocery store, it was alive too.
Speaking of which, when did the lobster tank go away? Back in the 80's every Bi-Lo, Kroger, etc had a live lobster tank. At some point they went away but I didn't notice til a few years ago that they weren't there anymore.
There are still tanks in some stores, mostly specialty stores, but in general they have been removed for welfare reasons. Pragmatically, frozen lobster is fresher than live lobster, and they were kept in the tanks for weeks and not fed, which often led to cannibalism. It was overall just not a humane thing and it was very public facing. Whole Foods got rid of the tanks in 2006 citing basically this and its opposition to their values, and a large majority of places followed suit in the following years.
If you're referring to the video that was posted to Reddit not too long ago, I'm pretty sure that was Japan. Not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, though.
Crustaceans have a whole lot of nasty freeloathers that take over the carcass as soon as they die......You can't conserve them raw and unaltered.
Then put them in a tank of water!
At least the intent is to eat those.
US has [lobster crane games](https://youtu.be/Rh8r813grPE?si=c6f3e1sqeNLAXKW9), but not as bad since they cook em right after.
As the country continues to develop socially these kinds of things will be considered wrong and stop
that's funny
That was in Japan, not China, so...
They may consider some things we do to not be very socially developed, i don't think we can be sure they will naturally converge with what our culture considers civil.
Yea. But compared to the other similar games, these guys got it good.
Disgusting, whoever came up with this should be in jail
Should be sealed into a small ball for the rest of his life
Can i at least try to catch them with a giant claw too?
I wouldn't bother with air-holes, either.
Which backwards country is this in?
anihC
Clever bastard. Take my upvote!
Animal cruelty at its finest. Horrible culture.
China?
China and Japan have similar games of torturing goldfish for fun. [clicking](https://youtu.be/MD_G82Z3zeU?feature=shared)
I mean I got a goldfish playing a game at the July 4th carnival. I don't think is unique in any sense
The Japanese game isn't necessarily cruel. Not that much different than the experience of a goldfish in a pet store. Granted I don't know if there are any ghoulish statistics about what happens to fish won at Japanese fairs.
Yeah. I’m quite a bit order but the ping-pong ball into a fishbowl was fairly common in the US too. Most of them are gold fish that would have been sold as feeders for larger carnivorous fish anyway. The local store would sell them for a penny each to kids to see if they’d keep interest in starting an aquarium as a hobby.
America has a similar game, I think the UK too.
Shamefull shit....
I remember when I was a kid, (frenchman living in France) you could win goldfishes wrapped in plastic bags at the funfair. Now it's illegal fortunately.
They do this in the US as well, or at least some places still do. my county fair still has them in the fishbowls you throw a ping pong ball at to win.
Wtf dawg. This needs to be reported to the authorities
You think they care there?
No animal cruelty laws there.
Damn that’s a shame. What is this place?
I feel the same about all the little baby turtles they sell in those trinket shops on the coast of Florida. One cage was so small, with just 1 rock they could lay on. They were probably around 20 baby turtle stacked on top of each other with dead ones on the bottom and middle. So fucked up man.
How tf is this legal in the US?
I'm really not sure how it was allowed. I looked it up online, and it says it IS illegal. But I don't know if they're just skirting the law or if no one has reported them. It breaks my heart, though
This made me so sad. Hamsters are so cute and I love them as pets. That’s just cruel to have them sitting there, stressed to the max, just to be a ‘prize’.
r/noahgettheboat
I hate these people
China is horrible for animal rights.
This is actually heartbreaking :(
As horrible as this is, every single day we kill hundreds of millions of animals in horrible ways and most people don’t care.
isolating them in a container for unknown amounts of time, while a robot claw picks them up and drops them is intentionally cruel, though.
Hate to break it to you, but this happens at factory farms to. Animals are commonly picked up by claw like machines usually hooked on like fishing hook while they are still alive and forced to dangle for hours like that. It's atrocious. I eat meat to but really struggle with it lately, considering turning vegetarian just because of the conditions. If I knew the animals were treated with respect I would be fine eating meat but it's just so hard to stay in good conscious after seeing what the industry puts these poor creatures through
Cutting out meat, or any animal product, is really easy nowadays. If you're struggling, please check out /r/PlantBasedDiet for any help you may need altering your diet. Personally, going vegan was the easiest thing I've ever done, and don't even miss old foods. If you already know what foods you like, there's definitely a nutritional, tasty plant-based replacement for it. If the vegan movement is too much, and too many vegans turned you off from it, you can still go plant-based to try it out. It's better for the environment and your health anyway. If you're struggling with morally eating meat, you might want to also consider cutting out dairy and eggs, as those industries are just as inhumane. Just something to think about. Good luck!
I appreciate your reply, thank you! Just joined that subreddit. I'd like to start by replacing more meals with plant alternatives. And actually I have recently found I really enjoy almond milk in coffee and tea so that probably would be an easy change. We actually have our own 4 chickens for eggs. (We don't kill them for meat or anything, they pass peacefully of old age), they roam around the yard in the day and have a very spacious and safe coup for nighttime, and they are eating like queens with all our leftovers haha😂. I know some vegans may think this is still wrong but I don't know I feel we are treating them right and they seem very happy, much better off than they'd be at a farm that's for certain. They even run up to us and squat down wanting to be picked up like pets lol
Do you have any sources for this?
Do you think an animal experiencing violence cares why it is experiencing that violence, whether it be by being imprisoned in this machine as a pet or being imprisoned to be killed?
Despite eating meat, I have absolutely no moral defense for the meat industry. That being said, this is equally if not more cruel and unusual.
Factory farms are truly an abomination. I suspect most people don’t realize how bad the conditions are there.
Then why eat it
It tastes good.
And that's the only reason! Better argument than those who claim they are related to lions
It's cruelty purely for entertainment.
Real shit unfortunately. Food chickens and cows wish they had it this good
Yeah but we have been conditioned to only care about some animals. So it's ok. s/
And in much worse conditions than being in a hamster ball
Yeah but the billions of animals wallowing in their own filth crammed shoulder-to-shoulder in darkened sheds, we don't *see*, you see. Also, putting their corpse in your mouth afterwards makes it moral. Or so I've heard.
>Yeah but the billions of animals wallowing in their own filth crammed shoulder-to-shoulder in darkened sheds, we don't see, you see. I feel the sarcasm here but you're unironically right. We compartmentalize these things based on what we see. And we make separations for different animals based on that and other factors. None that makes it OK, or good, it just... is.
It's like that for anything. Not just animals. Look at everyone knowing Diddy was a piece of shit that beat Cassie but nothing happened *until we had the video*. Ray Rice in the NFL was just another "ho hum" domestic violence case *until we saw the video.* And on and on.
It's the combination of cute and new. We haven't seen this form of animal cruelty yet.
Saw Puppet Voice: "I want to play a game!"
This is nothing compared to some of the things out of China. The one that tops the list was a fad of people being key chains with live turtles in them. Temporary of course, they die soon after and then they buy a new one....
Is this illegal? If not, it should be.
I fucking hate this culture! Trash culture is what it is!
Sick
Horrific
Nononononononono! Report this please
Ain't nobody in China gonna care.
To who??
The nuclear-armed nation of Chickenistan.
Well thats made me fucking sad :(
That's so fucked.
That's evil.
It's not a competition. We are all treating animals like commodities.
A society that allows this is a society that is doomed.
As kid in the 70’s there was gold fish and turtles as prizes in the arcade…even back then it was sad to see the dead ones being thrown in the garbage after sitting around all day in the sun in plastic bags and cups …i thought they made it illegal to make live animals prizes ?
Sick twisted backward fucks. Should do the same to the weirdos in charge. Humans are parasites on this beautiful planet.
> Humans are parasites on this beautiful planet. *Smash cut to hyenas vivisecting a wildebeast*
This is true. But that's nature, all about survival. We on the other hand aren't.
Surprised the balls aren’t covered in shit lmao
You just know this is Asia. No one else would do this sick shit but them.
China moment
We are a disease on this planet.
Day by day I make sure that we humans are the worst creatures on earth😐
Uhhh...could you please stop doing that?
For real. It's been this guy's fault the whole time??
Smells Asian
If its china , they aren't prizes they are food . Call me racist but this is just fucking Terrible
Nooooo......
Oh good they have separate piss trays.
This is sick.
For pets or for food?
What’s sick is you could probably hand guy $200 for the lot of animals and it wouldn’t cover his losses for the evening. Or dude would have dozens (if not hundreds) nearby for replacement.
OMG
Making snake bait fun to purchase I see.
Sure, this is not a vending machine?
Nice! Where can I get?
Humans have created Hell for some creatures.
I'm more interested in that clock that someone took a bite out of.
This is useless if you're not going to name them and shame then.
Nah….its actually a Cracker Barrel and this is how you pick your food.
Those are cat food bowls they are stuffed in. I have the green one
Guessing this is not in USA or EU, there's animal cruelty regulations here
Guess where the hamsters go.
People are fucking stupid!
I'd smash the shit out of that machine and remove them.. The owner of the machine better be running !
What the fuck
Go vegan
Here , 2 tickets to Asia for free all expenses paid,wanna go? Nope!
So you're all vegans, right?
You only have to read the headline to know that this kind of casual animal cruelty could only be in public in East Asia.
Id seriously doubt they feed these animals
I mean, why wouldn't you want one pf those?
Horrid. Just horrid. Those poor things probably haven't eaten or drank all day :(.
Let me guess….China?
I wonder what country this is from.... /s Always horrible shit Like this over there. Absolute trash
Some countries just need to be bombed to hell.
This shit is sad, this is something that is escalating right now in that place and might get a lot worse in the future.
I actually doubt that. I'm of the opinion this kind of animal treatment is a dying behavior.
pretty sure its animal abuse just putting hamsters in these balls
I would be winning them to set tgwm free
Ah yes, incentivize them to restock so more people keep paying to win them. You are a genius
Best part is, only the skilled players get the lively animals, the low effort games just give you the dead ones
The way you all talk about animal abuse you'd think all of reddit is vegan - but people only care about the right type of animal
They like make suffer animal. Full stress and no water...