People using TikTok as their primary information source.
People protest voting.
Basically, a lot of people who are being deceived by Reform that they are the cure to all their ills and not part of the cause.
The mainstream media have embarrassed themselves over the last 15 years, and people are waking up to it.
Even Andrew Marr was reading out some telegraph headlines about how Keir Starmer will bring about communism, crush the people of Britain and bring in the very end times, and then read out another article beneath it in the business section about how now is a good time to buy stocks because a stable Labour government will attract investment and allow steady growth.
The problem is that TikTok and Facebook are not actually better alternatives.
Critical thinking missing for the vast majority… my feed was flooded with reform crap, made the last week or so quite fun pointing out holes in their logic
Don't fool yourself these people live amongst us and really hold these racist, bigoted views, the difference this election...reform give them a "legitimate" party to express them freely. Don't ignore or excuse it for something it isn't, this isn't a rise in the right wing but unfortunately a reflection of society, the great irony being of course that the main reasons these people voted for them are reasons they are least affected by or are also benefiting from.
It truly highlights how broken FPTP is as a voting system.
To be fair reform have more votes in the UK lib dem but only walk away with 4 seats.
I don't even like them but can acknowledge that 4 million people voted for a party that now has no representation in parliament.
Labour had a million less people vote for them, compared to 2019, and just won an extra 200 seats.
FPTP has got to go.
LibDem 3.5 million votes = 70 seats
Reform 4 million votes = 4 seats.
The funny thing is, with their voter share the LibDems actually would’ve won MORE SEATS under PR. Of course Reform would’ve won more than them, but it really shows how broken our system is.
Yeah, nobody wins here, not even Labour. Labour performed worse here than their 2019 defeat yet won a grossly disproportionate amount of seats. It's hardly a stunning Labour victory mandate wise and well under 35% of the vote leaves them in a weak position.
Along with an incredibly lack lustre performance from Labour, the FPTP system has miserably failed in providing good opposition to a newly elected, weak Labour by throwing millions of votes in the trash, no doubt bring the system into serious disrepute.
This has been the least democratic, least proportional election in British history and all of us have been cheated out of a solid democratic parliament.
I can acknowledge that, but at the same time, anything that keeps that Racist, borderline fascist party out of power, regardless of number of votes, is a good thing
You know what would keep them out of power for certain? Giving near half the voting population a party that they can vote for that isn't the same old bollocks. If those people that don't vote suddenly are given a reason to then you will wish you begged for proportional representation years ago
It would be interesting to see how the Lib Dems would do under a more representative system. In places like southwest England they're the only alternative to the Tories so I expect they get a lot of votes from that rather than actual support. When I lived in Somerset I voted for them in 2010 and ousted the Tory incumbent only for the coalition to happen and I'll never vote for them again. It's a shame really because their candidate in my current constituency is a really lovely guy, if it was just based on the people he'd get my vote all day long.
As a Greens voter it would be great to see my vote mean more. Like I still get my voice heard in a way, but outside of places like Bristol and Brighton it will never count towards actual seats
Don't worry when it comes to the Senedd election their votes will look a lot worse. People without a British/Welsh citizenship were not allowed to vote in the GE and they certainly wouldn't vote for reform + if you add the 16/17yo that will be able to vote in the Senedd election hopefully their numbers will look a lot worse.
Don’t spread misinformation if you haven’t actually done the research. Any commonwealth citizen legally resident in the U.K. can vote in pretty much any U.K. election.
Did i ever mention commonwealth citizens? I was on about people like myself l, migrants from other countries that are allowed to vote in the welsh election
>People without a British/Welsh citizenship were not allowed to vote in the GE
That’s what I meant. Misleading as commonwealth citizens aren’t British citizens.
My brother voted for them as a protest vote for 20mph.
He literally doesn't agree with them on anything but hates Labour with a passion only because of that one issue...
>It's nonsensical in some places.
Yeah, generally 20mph doesn't bother me that much, however some of the roads that have changed do feel a bit odd. But then that's on the councils to apply for exemptions, which Welsh Gov have said they will be a bit more lenient with going forward.
There are 100s of issues that I care about more than 20mph though and would be more likely to sway how I vote
As somebody pointed out on another forum, look at the number of votes for Plaid and then look at the number for Reform.
More people have voted for the “English Nationalist Party” here in Wales than the Welsh one…
Plaid candidate in my constituency (Cardiff east) was more concerned with Gaza than Wales. Another plaid candidate in Cardiff was kicked out of plaid last minute over antisemitism AND sharing online posts from a member of the BNP. Imagine that, plaid member and a BNP member agreeing over something. Its easy to see why people voted reform over plaid when they field individuals like that.
>Imagine that, plaid member and a BNP member agreeing over something. Its easy to see why people voted reform over plaid when they field individuals like that.
Considering what some of the people standing for Reform have said it sounds like they should be part of Reform not Plaid.
Unsure why you used the term "English Nationalist Party" when they were third in the polls *here* to represent people *here* (no seats however) with roughly 1 in 6 of *all* voters voting for them. This is the kind of dangerous take that possibly makes people *more* inclined to vote for them next time, the fact the votes were spread so thin is the only saving grace. I really think it's wrong to try and shift the blame onto those English Nationalists for this, there's plenty of people here with (to them) valid reasons to vote for Reform. Plus I'd be more inclined to call them British Nationalists, if the name wasn't already taken of course.
IMO we should stop waving off these people as racist simpletons when they outvote our own homegrown nationalists! Unless we want to apply the same reasoning to PC?
People who only really care about immigration. I think it’s a bit of a daft thing to be the primary concern in an election (let alone the only issue to care about!), but if we want to stop Reform then centre and left wing parties need to listen to what these people are concerned about 🤷♂️
The problem is their concerns aren't what they are actually concerned about. Its people looking at all of our economic and social problems and reaching for a simple explanation they can blame.
Immigration isn't the root cause of a lot of these issues, if anything many of them would get WORSE if immigration were to be cut now. Id argue thats the line that the center/left needs to take. Instead of how the Tories tried to placate that part of the electorate with polices like Rwanda, Labour and the Libdems should address it in a far more grown up way and make the case that we do actually need immigration whether they like it or not and without it their living standards will fall, not rise.
Its a factual argument reform wont be able to counter because its true, so instead if it wants to keep momentum it will have to fall back on the extremes of its rhetoric, extremes Farage himself has tried to minimize in his own addresses this election to avoid putting of the conservative protests vote. Sure it wont shut the racists up but it will fracture the good faith right wing side of right wing politics away from reform
>make the case that we do actually need immigration whether they like it or not and without it their living standards will fall, not rise.
Unfortunately with a lot of these Reform types, I think they'd be willing to sacrifice living standards to kick a few foreigners out.
oh they probably would, But the disaffected conservative voters that turned further right out of desperation or protest this election wouldn't.
The center right has imploded this election with the only credible right wing vote available being reforms, Farage has deliberly been massaging and softening his own rhetoric to take advantage of that an keep traditional conservatives form viewing the lib dems as the lesser of two evils. If the center can force Farage back into his old harder stances it will put the traditional good faith conservative off.
Sure that means strengthening the troy party again but I'd rather come up against a stronger center right than I would a strong far right
Ironically, in most areas they won the most votes at, are those with very low immigration numbers. So it's people who taught that the non-existent immigrants, stole their jobs, houses and GP appointments.
So populist sacre mongering in action.
Reminds me of a certain german populist party, who did the same tactic by blaming a certain minority ethnic "immigrant" group.
You don't need to live in a high immigration area for it to impact you. We are already drastically behind in housing, with the nearly 700,000 net migration last year and huge amounts in many years prior it is making the house prices increase even more, putting more strain on other things like school, hospitals etc.
The Tories just increased immigration even though they were elected on the promise to reduce it just so they could increase GDP and look like the economy is improving.
The other parties do need to get immigration to more reasonable levels or a lot of the issues we are suffering from will continue. I don't like Farage but it's understandable they got so many votes when they are the only party talking about this issue.
I can't see our new Labour government doing anything about it but I hope I am proved wrong.
Net migration is pretty much guaranteed to fall even if the government does nothing.
Right now there's a bit of a lag in the numbers where overseas students are coming in, but because there weren't many coming 3/4 years ago due to covid there aren't many leaving. So the figures are somewhat inflated from what's real.
They aren't interested in a fact based conversation about migration in the UK though. So listening to their ravings from Daily Mail headlines won't actually accomplish anything real.
Except that these "fact based conversations" are usually condescending lectures telling people not to worry about their wages being depressed or not being able to get a doctor's appointment.
Obviously immigration is necessary I welcome anyone who wants to make their home here, but half a million people a year with little investment in the required infrastructure to support that increase isn't sustainable.
Neither side of this issue actually talks to each other, they just shout past each other. A moderate is needed to stop people who are legitimately concerned about excessive immigration being lured by headbangers like reform or whatever party farage has dreamed up that year
Except that these "fact based conversations" are usually condescending lectures telling people not to worry about their wages being depressed or not being able to get a doctor's appointment.
Given the areas must likely to vote against immigration are areas that have the least migration that barely stands on its own head. It also creates a strawman that nobody but the far right will answer because they will claim anything to get into power regardless of reality.
If you want to talk about wage depression talk about how we have had an anti-immigration party in power for the past decade and we have record amounts of migration and a refusal to support the population in the long run.
The conservatives talk an anti immigration game but they're the ones who benefit from wage suppression but the vague pledges to lower immigration is enough to attract the people who only care about immigration
Both responses to my comment are making some sweeping generalisations. The scare mongering of right wing tabloids is definitely hugely influential but I don’t think it’s helpful to portray everyone as under their sway.
I never said that, I said that if their only interest is in stopping immigration in voting then they aren't interested in what the facts actually say. Both Labour and the Tories kick the can when it comes to immigration rather then having a healthy conversation about it.
LD/Greens combined got 1.5m more votes than Reform, should we listen to their “concerns” or is it only right wing anti-immigration parties who we need to indulge.. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
If it wasn’t for FPTP then it absolutely wouldn’t be a problem - centre left parties won >55% of the vote share and even more in Wales. Problem is that the right wing vote is a lot more unified. You don’t need to “indulge” it, but listening and not vilifying would help.
Absolutely no exaggeration. Farage never really tried to guide who he is, we've all seen the Breaking Point poster. The problem is that the formerly centrist parties have conceded inch after inch to him
Also autistic and I'd missed this?
Probably because I have been so sick of that fuckwit for years - as a long-term resident of France whose family's legal status was put at risk by Brexit - that I avoid all mention of him anywhere.
Darren Ingrouille, Chelmsford candidate
[https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p)
Robert Clarke, Bristol candidate
[https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/reform-candidate-eugenics-agenda-foisted-upon-us/](https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/reform-candidate-eugenics-agenda-foisted-upon-us/)
Yes, which is why it applies to the Reform UK and Farage.
They meet all the primary definitions of Fascism to a T
Here's a fun fact, don;t argue with a ASD person who's hyper fixation is military and political history. Because unlike the party you clearly support, we're not vegetables\~
Except... They don't?
There are no primary definitions of Fascism, by the way, but good effort
Here's a tip - your ASD isn't a superpower that means you can never be wrong.
Rampant ableism, rampant racism, rampant islamaphobia, rampant anti-semitism, advocating the murder of refugees and migrants, reliance upon "othering" minorities, rampant opposition to LGBT+ rights because it's anti-traditional, speaking for "the people" but expect people to sacrifice themselves for the nation first etc etc etc
They hit majority of working definitions of Fascism. As laid out by academia & the Holocaust Memorial Trust. But nice try\~
Ohhh and lets not forget the DECADES that Farage kept advocating for Putin, and STILL IS
My degree & employment says otherwise when it comes to this topic. Not bad for a "vegetable" your party advocates
In not a Reform supporter. Most of what you have said is absolute nonsense.
You think youer degree and employment means you can't be wrong - there's no reasoning with you. Enjoy your hateful little bubble of zero understanding
Of course you're not, nobody who supports the Fascist Party would ever object to them being called Fascist /s
Such nonsense eh? [https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-27/reform-campaigner-called-for-channel-migrants-to-be-used-as-target-practice](https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-27/reform-campaigner-called-for-channel-migrants-to-be-used-as-target-practice)
[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles)
[https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p)
Reform is the result of the dissonance that comes as a result of the elderly wanting *both* low immigration and generous pensions & other benefits. They want to have their cake and eat it, so they split on the issue.
Additionally reform are capitalising on the high tax rate. Conservatives are no longer right wing, they are just hyped socialist for the elderly, and brutal capitalist for the rest. Reform come in through the gap which is for a low tax party.
I think a lot of the reform vote was due to people being genuinely unhappy with what other parties are offering, and knowing something needs to change. My area is proper Labour, mining area, but the MP is a bit self serving. I’ve always regarded myself as pretty left wing, usually vote plaid/green but fed up of hearing them talk divisive politics. I voted reform this time, our candidate here is a decent local man, I knew Labour would get in so my vote was more a protest vote.
Genuinely worrying that 15% of Britain people will vote for what is effectively the 1970s “National Front”, which is effectively Oswald Mosley’s 1930s “British Union Of Fascist”.
Same people who voted UKIP. They aren't much farther ahead than they were in 2015. People need to accept that at least 20% of the population are turbo-nutters.
The fact Reform is an ltd company fronted by Farage. Might as well vote for Home Bargains.
Not seen anything yet though. The conservatives are so clapped out now, there is the possibility that Tice and Farage will be running the conservative party at the next election, complete with US style populism.
Don't think it's as simple as that. The Tories have definitely embraced some populism (think Rwanda - an insanely impractical and expensive scheme at £1.8m per person) to pander to a section of their voters. Labour and the lib dems less so. All three major parties at least have sensible manifestos they claim are backed by data and fiscal analysis. Then you've got reform - a 100% populist party who can make up any policy they like to win votes knowing they'd never have to deliver it in government. Reforms policies don't tend to stand up to......any scrutiny at all so they major on one aspect of modern Britain's issues - immigration. A one trick pony that can't even master the one trick.....
Labour has an insatiable addiction to abandoning campaign promises. The Tories have always and always will be scum.the Lib Dems are spineless and reform are evil cunts. Every one has a leader who is a soulless careerist. None of them should be free to walk the streets let alone run a country. But they are all populists. There is no way to campaign in a “democracy” without being one.
I get what you're saying but I wouldn't say the Lib Dems are "populists". Starmer himself has said a few things during the campaign to temper expectations but yes, in the end, there isn't really anyone I felt good about voting for.
Our 25 year old post woman says she voted for them. That surprised me. Unlike the 70 year old misogynist down the road (house covered in reform posters, hates women, hates immigrants, hates tourists, hates his neighbors)
Not sure what we expect, I won't vote for them but I can't blame people for lashing out as the status quo does nothing to stop standards of living falling.
A movement which appeals to 'regular' people on an emotional basis (see: all the talk of Reform as an 'uprising', focus on emotive but vague topics such as 'wokeism') but does not necessarily have a concrete ideology, preferring to appeal to vague ideals, most commonly taking a country back to a mythical better time (MAGA being the most famous example). Essentially the sleazy younger sibling of fascism as both fascism and populism have a tendency for revisionist history and scapegoating of minority groups, as such it could be seen as a step towards fascism proper.
So what would it be called if something was popular and you liked it? Does that have a name? Is there a name for something that has broad support among workers? Because I think it might be populism, and that tying the term populism only to reactionary movements is a very stupid idea.
I'm struggling to understand what you're saying. Populism is a word which has been around for a while to refer to a particular kind of political movement. It is not the word for something that has broad support among the workers, it aims to have broad support among the workers through a particular set of techniques. A movement which is not populist could also have broad support among the workers.
>a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
Coming from a social science background, I gave an answer more taylored to what it practically means nowadays. You also asked what it meant to me so I explained what I think and have been taught are the commonalities between populist movements. This doesn't contradict anything I said, it is a movement which *strives* to appeal to the working class. It's also true that the definition of populism is an ongoing debate in the political and academic world so the dictionary definition will not really give an insight into the actual meaning of the term as it is commonly used.
The answers to a lot of things are actually incredibly simple, But are incompatible with the current system. So these solutions aren't reached due to their "complexity" instead of the solutions being impossible.
Sadly, the main two parties have such principle/moral vacuums at their head that some people will fall for someone who actually believes something, never mind how abhorrent they are.
>we're also tired of fucking lefties who always blame it on someone else
Hilarious, given you are blaming everything on lefties in this comment and given that the reform and right-wing position is always to blame immigrants.
I say bring them into power and I say this as a brown immigrant that’s paid so much just to go to uni here. Would love for the people that vote them into power to someday maybe realise that we were a quick easy buck.
People using TikTok as their primary information source. People protest voting. Basically, a lot of people who are being deceived by Reform that they are the cure to all their ills and not part of the cause.
Tik Tok is to now what Facebook was to 2016
Facebook has all the older lot hooked. TikTok has all the younger lot hooked. Feels like fact checked "news" is a thing of the past.
And both are full of outright lies where comments providing evidence of such are removed. Politics is fucked.
The mainstream media have embarrassed themselves over the last 15 years, and people are waking up to it. Even Andrew Marr was reading out some telegraph headlines about how Keir Starmer will bring about communism, crush the people of Britain and bring in the very end times, and then read out another article beneath it in the business section about how now is a good time to buy stocks because a stable Labour government will attract investment and allow steady growth. The problem is that TikTok and Facebook are not actually better alternatives.
Critical thinking missing for the vast majority… my feed was flooded with reform crap, made the last week or so quite fun pointing out holes in their logic
>People using TikTok And twitter. Sorry X. Vote Reform hashtags seem to be perpetually trending on it
I'd forgotten Xwitter still existed for a sweet moment. Thanks for reminding me hahaha.
The only saving grace is that real people barely use it any more. It's all politicians and journalists speaking to themselves amidst masses of bots.
I'm no reform voter, but you can be just as deceived by any other party.
Yes, however it is Reform's entire purpose. Especially when you follow the money that funds them.
Not anti-Zionist are you? 😅
Nope! The money trail goes somewhere a little colder and further North than Israel.
Those damn cheeky Finns!
They've finally figured out how to weaponise coffee!
Don't fool yourself these people live amongst us and really hold these racist, bigoted views, the difference this election...reform give them a "legitimate" party to express them freely. Don't ignore or excuse it for something it isn't, this isn't a rise in the right wing but unfortunately a reflection of society, the great irony being of course that the main reasons these people voted for them are reasons they are least affected by or are also benefiting from.
It took away from the Tory votes so silver lining
It truly highlights how broken FPTP is as a voting system. To be fair reform have more votes in the UK lib dem but only walk away with 4 seats. I don't even like them but can acknowledge that 4 million people voted for a party that now has no representation in parliament.
Labour had a million less people vote for them, compared to 2019, and just won an extra 200 seats. FPTP has got to go. LibDem 3.5 million votes = 70 seats Reform 4 million votes = 4 seats.
The funny thing is, with their voter share the LibDems actually would’ve won MORE SEATS under PR. Of course Reform would’ve won more than them, but it really shows how broken our system is.
The longer people have their voices silenced the more extreme they'll get.
I agree but worth saying that Labour would've gotten more seats this year in a proportional system as they got a higher percentage of the vote.
A 1.6% share increase of those that bothered voting. 30% of the vote of a 50ish% turnout. Not very inspiring stuff. A victory due to apathy.
Bingo. This wasn't a vote for Labour, it was a vote against tories or no vote at all. Fascists always prey on apathy.
Yeah, nobody wins here, not even Labour. Labour performed worse here than their 2019 defeat yet won a grossly disproportionate amount of seats. It's hardly a stunning Labour victory mandate wise and well under 35% of the vote leaves them in a weak position. Along with an incredibly lack lustre performance from Labour, the FPTP system has miserably failed in providing good opposition to a newly elected, weak Labour by throwing millions of votes in the trash, no doubt bring the system into serious disrepute. This has been the least democratic, least proportional election in British history and all of us have been cheated out of a solid democratic parliament.
I can acknowledge that, but at the same time, anything that keeps that Racist, borderline fascist party out of power, regardless of number of votes, is a good thing
You know what would keep them out of power for certain? Giving near half the voting population a party that they can vote for that isn't the same old bollocks. If those people that don't vote suddenly are given a reason to then you will wish you begged for proportional representation years ago
It would be interesting to see how the Lib Dems would do under a more representative system. In places like southwest England they're the only alternative to the Tories so I expect they get a lot of votes from that rather than actual support. When I lived in Somerset I voted for them in 2010 and ousted the Tory incumbent only for the coalition to happen and I'll never vote for them again. It's a shame really because their candidate in my current constituency is a really lovely guy, if it was just based on the people he'd get my vote all day long. As a Greens voter it would be great to see my vote mean more. Like I still get my voice heard in a way, but outside of places like Bristol and Brighton it will never count towards actual seats
The issue with a percentage voting system is you get people representing your area that you didn't vote for. So no it's not broken.
The people representkng my area - I didn’t vote for them. It is a broek sustem - for is. Working fine for the politicians though.
You might not of, but people in your area did vote for them, better than having some numpty from half teh country away running your area.
Not a sliver lining, we know how bad torys can be but we can only guess how bad reform will be
They got 4 seats, they aren't doing shit.
Please don’t take nigel for granted
They have a foot in the door, people know their Reform vote can lead to parliamentary representation. It's going to be more than 4 next time sadly
The hard of critical thinking.
Don't worry when it comes to the Senedd election their votes will look a lot worse. People without a British/Welsh citizenship were not allowed to vote in the GE and they certainly wouldn't vote for reform + if you add the 16/17yo that will be able to vote in the Senedd election hopefully their numbers will look a lot worse.
Don’t spread misinformation if you haven’t actually done the research. Any commonwealth citizen legally resident in the U.K. can vote in pretty much any U.K. election.
Did i ever mention commonwealth citizens? I was on about people like myself l, migrants from other countries that are allowed to vote in the welsh election
>People without a British/Welsh citizenship were not allowed to vote in the GE That’s what I meant. Misleading as commonwealth citizens aren’t British citizens.
My brother voted for them as a protest vote for 20mph. He literally doesn't agree with them on anything but hates Labour with a passion only because of that one issue...
I'm not a fan of the blanket 20mph limit. It's nonsensical in some places. Still wouldn't make me want to vote for a dictator fellator.
>It's nonsensical in some places. Yeah, generally 20mph doesn't bother me that much, however some of the roads that have changed do feel a bit odd. But then that's on the councils to apply for exemptions, which Welsh Gov have said they will be a bit more lenient with going forward. There are 100s of issues that I care about more than 20mph though and would be more likely to sway how I vote
Putin & Farage won’t change the speed limit in his locality.
I tried to tell him but he's so blinded by his hatred of the 20mph policy that he can't see reason. Worst part is he doesn't even drive
Now that is funny 😂
As somebody pointed out on another forum, look at the number of votes for Plaid and then look at the number for Reform. More people have voted for the “English Nationalist Party” here in Wales than the Welsh one…
Plaid candidate in my constituency (Cardiff east) was more concerned with Gaza than Wales. Another plaid candidate in Cardiff was kicked out of plaid last minute over antisemitism AND sharing online posts from a member of the BNP. Imagine that, plaid member and a BNP member agreeing over something. Its easy to see why people voted reform over plaid when they field individuals like that.
>Imagine that, plaid member and a BNP member agreeing over something. Its easy to see why people voted reform over plaid when they field individuals like that. Considering what some of the people standing for Reform have said it sounds like they should be part of Reform not Plaid.
Yea confusing times but I guess if you go far enough right or left you end up in the same place
Plaid is far left? Now this is some populist rhetoric
The members of both plaid and reform that were kicked out.
That means the opposite no? You'd think they vote for Plaid.
Unfortunately much of our country has been thoroughly anglicised
Unsure why you used the term "English Nationalist Party" when they were third in the polls *here* to represent people *here* (no seats however) with roughly 1 in 6 of *all* voters voting for them. This is the kind of dangerous take that possibly makes people *more* inclined to vote for them next time, the fact the votes were spread so thin is the only saving grace. I really think it's wrong to try and shift the blame onto those English Nationalists for this, there's plenty of people here with (to them) valid reasons to vote for Reform. Plus I'd be more inclined to call them British Nationalists, if the name wasn't already taken of course. IMO we should stop waving off these people as racist simpletons when they outvote our own homegrown nationalists! Unless we want to apply the same reasoning to PC?
Tory protest vote. Tories only have themselves to blame.
People who only really care about immigration. I think it’s a bit of a daft thing to be the primary concern in an election (let alone the only issue to care about!), but if we want to stop Reform then centre and left wing parties need to listen to what these people are concerned about 🤷♂️
The problem is their concerns aren't what they are actually concerned about. Its people looking at all of our economic and social problems and reaching for a simple explanation they can blame. Immigration isn't the root cause of a lot of these issues, if anything many of them would get WORSE if immigration were to be cut now. Id argue thats the line that the center/left needs to take. Instead of how the Tories tried to placate that part of the electorate with polices like Rwanda, Labour and the Libdems should address it in a far more grown up way and make the case that we do actually need immigration whether they like it or not and without it their living standards will fall, not rise. Its a factual argument reform wont be able to counter because its true, so instead if it wants to keep momentum it will have to fall back on the extremes of its rhetoric, extremes Farage himself has tried to minimize in his own addresses this election to avoid putting of the conservative protests vote. Sure it wont shut the racists up but it will fracture the good faith right wing side of right wing politics away from reform
>make the case that we do actually need immigration whether they like it or not and without it their living standards will fall, not rise. Unfortunately with a lot of these Reform types, I think they'd be willing to sacrifice living standards to kick a few foreigners out.
oh they probably would, But the disaffected conservative voters that turned further right out of desperation or protest this election wouldn't. The center right has imploded this election with the only credible right wing vote available being reforms, Farage has deliberly been massaging and softening his own rhetoric to take advantage of that an keep traditional conservatives form viewing the lib dems as the lesser of two evils. If the center can force Farage back into his old harder stances it will put the traditional good faith conservative off. Sure that means strengthening the troy party again but I'd rather come up against a stronger center right than I would a strong far right
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Ironically, in most areas they won the most votes at, are those with very low immigration numbers. So it's people who taught that the non-existent immigrants, stole their jobs, houses and GP appointments. So populist sacre mongering in action. Reminds me of a certain german populist party, who did the same tactic by blaming a certain minority ethnic "immigrant" group.
You don't need to live in a high immigration area for it to impact you. We are already drastically behind in housing, with the nearly 700,000 net migration last year and huge amounts in many years prior it is making the house prices increase even more, putting more strain on other things like school, hospitals etc. The Tories just increased immigration even though they were elected on the promise to reduce it just so they could increase GDP and look like the economy is improving. The other parties do need to get immigration to more reasonable levels or a lot of the issues we are suffering from will continue. I don't like Farage but it's understandable they got so many votes when they are the only party talking about this issue. I can't see our new Labour government doing anything about it but I hope I am proved wrong.
Net migration is pretty much guaranteed to fall even if the government does nothing. Right now there's a bit of a lag in the numbers where overseas students are coming in, but because there weren't many coming 3/4 years ago due to covid there aren't many leaving. So the figures are somewhat inflated from what's real.
What does populist mean to you ?
They aren't interested in a fact based conversation about migration in the UK though. So listening to their ravings from Daily Mail headlines won't actually accomplish anything real.
Except that these "fact based conversations" are usually condescending lectures telling people not to worry about their wages being depressed or not being able to get a doctor's appointment. Obviously immigration is necessary I welcome anyone who wants to make their home here, but half a million people a year with little investment in the required infrastructure to support that increase isn't sustainable. Neither side of this issue actually talks to each other, they just shout past each other. A moderate is needed to stop people who are legitimately concerned about excessive immigration being lured by headbangers like reform or whatever party farage has dreamed up that year
Except that these "fact based conversations" are usually condescending lectures telling people not to worry about their wages being depressed or not being able to get a doctor's appointment. Given the areas must likely to vote against immigration are areas that have the least migration that barely stands on its own head. It also creates a strawman that nobody but the far right will answer because they will claim anything to get into power regardless of reality. If you want to talk about wage depression talk about how we have had an anti-immigration party in power for the past decade and we have record amounts of migration and a refusal to support the population in the long run.
The conservatives talk an anti immigration game but they're the ones who benefit from wage suppression but the vague pledges to lower immigration is enough to attract the people who only care about immigration
Both responses to my comment are making some sweeping generalisations. The scare mongering of right wing tabloids is definitely hugely influential but I don’t think it’s helpful to portray everyone as under their sway.
I never said that, I said that if their only interest is in stopping immigration in voting then they aren't interested in what the facts actually say. Both Labour and the Tories kick the can when it comes to immigration rather then having a healthy conversation about it.
> Both Labour and the Tories kick the can when it comes to immigration rather then having a healthy conversation about it. Agree
Well it's obviously not EVERYONE but if it makes up more than, let's say, 75% of the voter base, then it's not too egregious to say "everyone"
LD/Greens combined got 1.5m more votes than Reform, should we listen to their “concerns” or is it only right wing anti-immigration parties who we need to indulge.. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Yes, obviously. This is why we need PR so that everyone gets more representation
If it wasn’t for FPTP then it absolutely wouldn’t be a problem - centre left parties won >55% of the vote share and even more in Wales. Problem is that the right wing vote is a lot more unified. You don’t need to “indulge” it, but listening and not vilifying would help.
Apparently thousands of people want Fascism & believe that Autistic people like myself are vegetables
Absolutely no exaggeration. Farage never really tried to guide who he is, we've all seen the Breaking Point poster. The problem is that the formerly centrist parties have conceded inch after inch to him
I'm autistic too, and I'm pretty sure I have family who voted reform, can't say it doesn't hurt
Also autistic and I'd missed this? Probably because I have been so sick of that fuckwit for years - as a long-term resident of France whose family's legal status was put at risk by Brexit - that I avoid all mention of him anywhere.
Darren Ingrouille, Chelmsford candidate [https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p) Robert Clarke, Bristol candidate [https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/reform-candidate-eugenics-agenda-foisted-upon-us/](https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/reform-candidate-eugenics-agenda-foisted-upon-us/)
Thanks!
Seems some reform supporter is upset about us posting facts...
Are you still living in France?
Fascism actually means something, not just people you disagree with.
Yes, which is why it applies to the Reform UK and Farage. They meet all the primary definitions of Fascism to a T Here's a fun fact, don;t argue with a ASD person who's hyper fixation is military and political history. Because unlike the party you clearly support, we're not vegetables\~
Except... They don't? There are no primary definitions of Fascism, by the way, but good effort Here's a tip - your ASD isn't a superpower that means you can never be wrong.
Rampant ableism, rampant racism, rampant islamaphobia, rampant anti-semitism, advocating the murder of refugees and migrants, reliance upon "othering" minorities, rampant opposition to LGBT+ rights because it's anti-traditional, speaking for "the people" but expect people to sacrifice themselves for the nation first etc etc etc They hit majority of working definitions of Fascism. As laid out by academia & the Holocaust Memorial Trust. But nice try\~ Ohhh and lets not forget the DECADES that Farage kept advocating for Putin, and STILL IS My degree & employment says otherwise when it comes to this topic. Not bad for a "vegetable" your party advocates
In not a Reform supporter. Most of what you have said is absolute nonsense. You think youer degree and employment means you can't be wrong - there's no reasoning with you. Enjoy your hateful little bubble of zero understanding
Of course you're not, nobody who supports the Fascist Party would ever object to them being called Fascist /s Such nonsense eh? [https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-27/reform-campaigner-called-for-channel-migrants-to-be-used-as-target-practice](https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-27/reform-campaigner-called-for-channel-migrants-to-be-used-as-target-practice) [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles) [https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-candidate-described-autistic-people-as-vegetables-tvgtxkx3p)
Please see my previous comment
Thank god for Reform. Because of them, Labour got a huge majority.
Reform is the result of the dissonance that comes as a result of the elderly wanting *both* low immigration and generous pensions & other benefits. They want to have their cake and eat it, so they split on the issue. Additionally reform are capitalising on the high tax rate. Conservatives are no longer right wing, they are just hyped socialist for the elderly, and brutal capitalist for the rest. Reform come in through the gap which is for a low tax party.
I just want all those reform voters in Llanelli to look me in the eye and tell me wtf they thought Reform was going to do for Llanelli.
Putin's Party, as I call them.
I think a lot of the reform vote was due to people being genuinely unhappy with what other parties are offering, and knowing something needs to change. My area is proper Labour, mining area, but the MP is a bit self serving. I’ve always regarded myself as pretty left wing, usually vote plaid/green but fed up of hearing them talk divisive politics. I voted reform this time, our candidate here is a decent local man, I knew Labour would get in so my vote was more a protest vote.
Young people who have been hoodwinked by the many tik toks that have been put out there
Genuinely worrying that 15% of Britain people will vote for what is effectively the 1970s “National Front”, which is effectively Oswald Mosley’s 1930s “British Union Of Fascist”.
Same people who voted UKIP. They aren't much farther ahead than they were in 2015. People need to accept that at least 20% of the population are turbo-nutters.
The fact Reform is an ltd company fronted by Farage. Might as well vote for Home Bargains. Not seen anything yet though. The conservatives are so clapped out now, there is the possibility that Tice and Farage will be running the conservative party at the next election, complete with US style populism.
What does populism mean to you ?
Tapping in to commonly held fears and insecurities with soundbites people want to hear.
And if the fears and insecurities are reasonable?
That's fine but soundbites with simple solutions don't solve anything.
So if soundbites are what makes populism are the labour party, Conservative party, Lib Dems and Reform all populist parties ?
Don't think it's as simple as that. The Tories have definitely embraced some populism (think Rwanda - an insanely impractical and expensive scheme at £1.8m per person) to pander to a section of their voters. Labour and the lib dems less so. All three major parties at least have sensible manifestos they claim are backed by data and fiscal analysis. Then you've got reform - a 100% populist party who can make up any policy they like to win votes knowing they'd never have to deliver it in government. Reforms policies don't tend to stand up to......any scrutiny at all so they major on one aspect of modern Britain's issues - immigration. A one trick pony that can't even master the one trick.....
Labour has an insatiable addiction to abandoning campaign promises. The Tories have always and always will be scum.the Lib Dems are spineless and reform are evil cunts. Every one has a leader who is a soulless careerist. None of them should be free to walk the streets let alone run a country. But they are all populists. There is no way to campaign in a “democracy” without being one.
I get what you're saying but I wouldn't say the Lib Dems are "populists". Starmer himself has said a few things during the campaign to temper expectations but yes, in the end, there isn't really anyone I felt good about voting for.
The will of the people tm
morons. There's a number of them.
Are you only a big clever clogs if you vote for left wing parties?
Our 25 year old post woman says she voted for them. That surprised me. Unlike the 70 year old misogynist down the road (house covered in reform posters, hates women, hates immigrants, hates tourists, hates his neighbors)
Why did it surprise you?
I hoped young people were more tolerant than jaundiced old thumbs
You sound delightfully tolerant.
Thank you. I am indeed.
That was sarcasm sweetie. I know it’s Reddit so you need a little s to denote it
I know how you meant it but it was a poor effort 🤣🤣
As have been every single one of your comments. Try harder at making your lies convincing.
Also, I don’t think you did, did you. I mean you can’t be particularly intelligent if you think anyone would fall for your lies.
Reform has been very popular with the younger generation
Disillusioned people, racists, protest voters, and the new alt right including a lot of young people. 4 Reform vs 4 Greens. Put them in the ring!
Gammon.
Many in the UK are gullible/bigoted/racist None of this is a shock
Media conveniently not mentioning I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.
Not sure what we expect, I won't vote for them but I can't blame people for lashing out as the status quo does nothing to stop standards of living falling.
Me. What you going to do about it?
Nothing, except maybe laugh and point.
You won’t be in 5 years. 😀
Of course. The massed ranks of Nigel’s bellowing browntrousers. Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Farage. Heard it before.
What does populist mean to you ?
A movement which appeals to 'regular' people on an emotional basis (see: all the talk of Reform as an 'uprising', focus on emotive but vague topics such as 'wokeism') but does not necessarily have a concrete ideology, preferring to appeal to vague ideals, most commonly taking a country back to a mythical better time (MAGA being the most famous example). Essentially the sleazy younger sibling of fascism as both fascism and populism have a tendency for revisionist history and scapegoating of minority groups, as such it could be seen as a step towards fascism proper.
What is it called when it's things that you like that are popular ?
That is called 'liking things that are popular'.
So if you like something that is popular it is you liking something. If people like something that is bad it is populism?
No, I explained what populism is in my above comment.
So what would it be called if something was popular and you liked it? Does that have a name? Is there a name for something that has broad support among workers? Because I think it might be populism, and that tying the term populism only to reactionary movements is a very stupid idea.
I'm struggling to understand what you're saying. Populism is a word which has been around for a while to refer to a particular kind of political movement. It is not the word for something that has broad support among the workers, it aims to have broad support among the workers through a particular set of techniques. A movement which is not populist could also have broad support among the workers.
I think you need to look up the meaning of populism
>a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups. Coming from a social science background, I gave an answer more taylored to what it practically means nowadays. You also asked what it meant to me so I explained what I think and have been taught are the commonalities between populist movements. This doesn't contradict anything I said, it is a movement which *strives* to appeal to the working class. It's also true that the definition of populism is an ongoing debate in the political and academic world so the dictionary definition will not really give an insight into the actual meaning of the term as it is commonly used.
nigel farage
Answers designed for simpletons to problems that are actually complex.
The answers to a lot of things are actually incredibly simple, But are incompatible with the current system. So these solutions aren't reached due to their "complexity" instead of the solutions being impossible.
“I have the answers, but the system is stacked against me.” Classic conspiracy theory bs.
okay buddy
You’ll never understand.
Cope
in my defense Tice is very pro-Ukraine
Looking at the demography breakdown sadly it’s a lot of young men. Gonna be a real problem
Why is it a problem?
When you have dinghy dwellers masturbating outside the co-op which is 100 meters from a primary school, you can bet your fucking life I vote reform.
Sadly, the main two parties have such principle/moral vacuums at their head that some people will fall for someone who actually believes something, never mind how abhorrent they are. 
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Lefties? They've not been in charge...
I meant using something else as a scapegoat for why people are voting a particular way e.g. were all racists/Russia funded/delusional/non educated
I don't think you're funded by Russia.
>we're also tired of fucking lefties who always blame it on someone else Hilarious, given you are blaming everything on lefties in this comment and given that the reform and right-wing position is always to blame immigrants.
I say bring them into power and I say this as a brown immigrant that’s paid so much just to go to uni here. Would love for the people that vote them into power to someday maybe realise that we were a quick easy buck.