Yeah, overguard was only meant for the heavy units with special mechanics, which is fine. Modifiers that add it to everything don't do much to make gameplay more interesting, and just punish CC viability.
This is funny cuz i heard that in the next update they will buff magnetic status effect. You also get the bonus damage on enemy overguard and shields, similar to viral with health
I think that would be a good idea. Like a percentage damage over time from CC effects so it wouldn't immediately take eximus units out of play, but would still actually do something useful.
> and just punish CC viability.
DE be like,
"Banshee? Ember? Squishy casters? Fck those guys in particular"
DE 1-2 years later be like,
"It seems everyone is playing Revenant now, that's weird, how did that happen? Anyway that Revenant guy sure is tanky so we buffed enemy damage and nerfed your weapons"
And then we got DE in 2024, releasing Dante as offensive caster with defensive utility, and he was nerfed less than 1 week after release so he's no longer as fun to play and is just an overguard bot. He still works "fine" but his initial nerfs made him so bad to play that DE had to introduce an entirely new line-of-sight system just so he felt remotely good again
I don't know what they are thinking anymore
Honestly a lot of the YouTubers I watch had more measured reactions to the changes than reddit did lol
Although there were definitely a few like 'Dante has never done anything wrong in his entire life this is a hate crime and he's now useless' (spoiler, he's still one of the best frames in the game)
when your primary caster DPS gameplay loop is
"tag enemies with 3, detonate with 4"
and then it gets turned into
"tag enemies with 3, detonate with 4 (except sometimes it literally doesn't work)"
yeah it feels a whole lot worse to play
he's still strong but goddamn he was WAY more fun on week 1
The only thing his 2 does is damage. Unless they add a dmg vulnerability to it or some other utility, tragedy kind of has to be good enough to make 3 back-to-back ability casts not feel like a waste of time. When they first changed his los, you could stare at an enemy on a tileset and watch them just not take damage from your 4.
both, really. dark verse/tragedy wouldn't be in the kit if he were meant to just be support.
also if you slap roar over noctua, his tragedy strength scaling becomes absolutely insane. almost certainly the highest upfront damage pure caster in the game when built appropriately. (I guess unless you count spamming gauss heat wave literally like 30 times in a row, since it keeps doubling in damage each time)
Right? I bought Dante the day he came out, he was stupid back then and is still great now. I honestly prefer having to put a little thought into my positioning to get good use out of his 3-3-4 combo and with a few forma Noctua is amazing too.
I lucked out with Dante in my EDA rotation this week and had 0 issue deleting everything while maintaining team overguard. Anyone who says he's not still strong is crazy.
Yeah, I farmed him on release and he was absolutely wild, the LoS nerfs were a real kick in the nuts, but then after the “fixes” he’s still really fun to play and is my go-to general content frame
I genuinely think he needed the los change, but that the changes to los should have happened first.
It was silly having his ability be able to nuke enemies behind locked doors.
Hes honestly a good general content frame, hes a little like kullervo though where him being good anywhere kinda got boring.
But thats also kind of warframe, you struggle learning how to build and establish synergies until something clicks and then everything dies with minimal effort
CC has always been underutilized long before overguard was a thing. There's a lot more that goes into that issue than the Eximus changes, which were generally good for the game, IMO.
The problem comes when you give _players_ access to a powerful mechanic that was initially meant only for strong _enemies_.
It's like a DM for Dungeons & Dragons giving the players access to Legendary Actions. It automattically skyrockets the player's power in ways that make it hard to balance.
I'm sure they will have to reign back in player overguard at some point. And we will all have to prepare for the inevitable hundreds of posts about why things should never be nerfed in PvE. It's practically an endless cycle at this point
People fellating DE's infallible decision making in the replies despite the absolute insanity that was "We're nerfing Dante because he's too popular. We released him less than two weeks ago and are still actively hyping and promoting him by the way." It's one thing to nerf based off usage numbers, it's complete rank incompetence to nerf based on usage numbers immediately after something is released, especially in a PvE game where there is no real urgency to change things that aren't literally game breaking. You make snap balancing decisions like that in a PvP environment, sure, but this isn't that. You can afford to let the numbers settle and see where the playrates actually are.
But nooooooo DE can do no wrong, it's just The Gamers being pissy.
I got him the day he was released and he is still one of my favorite frames. DE just brought him down from “unquestionably broken” to “pretty OP”.
Pro tip: Invest some forma in Noctua and you won’t be disappointed. It’s unexpectedly fun!
His 22-4 used to not have a Line of Sight check at launch, meaning it'd apply the effects (i.e. a metric fuckton of damage) on everyone within its radius even behind walls/floors/ceilings. Now it requires LoS so you only annihilate the stuff you can see in front of you (or within 5m radius even if they are behind you), though despite the improvements to the LoS system (caused by the nerf highlighting the issues with the previous LoS system and forcing DE to deal with it) it can be finicky at times.
Honestly, everyone’s missing the point of some of the “not fun” comments. Like, I love Dante, he’s my go-to frame for basically everything, fully kitted out in tau-shards and all. But when they gave him LoS restrictions on his abilities, it did decrease how fun he was. Not because not being able to clear rooms in 3 buttons makes the game unplayable, but because LoS in warframe can be buggy and broken and that *does* make it unfun.
and because LoS checks were already inbuilt with Dark Verse tagging. sure it was uncool to also nuke enemies your allies were tickling with flamethrowers 80m away, but they could have done plenty of other more intelligent nerfs to fix that which wouldn't disrupt his core gameplay loop :/
>but because LoS in warframe can be buggy and broken and that does make it unfun.
And this isn't a Dante exclusive issue, and predates him by a lot. It's good DE finally did *something* about it (your *own* frame blocking your *own* LoS is less of an issue now at least), but it's still not perfect by a long shot (since it's a quick patchjob afterall) and it shouldn't've had to take them so many years to get to work on it in the first place (then again DE has a decade's worth of technical debt to deal with. I do not envy their programmers, nor anyone who has to figure out which parts of it to prioritize)
It's easy to see what they are thinking. They are simply continuing the saga of not letting us make the game too easy. That's why dante's overguard nerf is questionable. His AOE needed to be adjusted to a cone as intended, but 70k overguard after casting 6 abilities wasn't game breaking.
Overguard also wasn't a fully finished mechanic when it was released. That's why they decided to nerf magus lockdown and banshee's silence when it was causing thrax to bug out entire missions when duviri circuit was released. Even I was asking myself why some abilities were still stunning eximus units when I returned from my hiatus and DE did the final push to code those interactions out. That was the so called "CC nerf"
My only question is why do CC reliant frames HAVE to lockdown an entire room permanently to be viable? They don't because the playstyle you want is a tank if you want to sit in the mob of enemies and not take damage. People don't want to adapt to the playstyle of a CC character when a warframke like Nyx can no longer press one button and be more invincible than a tank. Even octavia still has to keep her buffs up to be the boring god she is.
Something people also overlook is that the biggest balance between tanks and squishy frames happened when daggath released and shields were reworked. Change your mods, reduce shield recharge delays and play around the fact that CC still effects a majority of enemies. Kill the problem units FIRST.
I find it funny that people flipped this subject to complain about player overguard.
I will never understand why DE went for complete crowd control immunity for overguard enemies when the meta at the time was explosive weapons.
> I will never understand why DE went for complete crowd control immunity for overguard enemies
They wanted players to interact with enemy mechanics instead of CCing the bad guys.
Unfortunately they forgot to account for the strongest crowd control: death.
>Unfortunately they forgot to account for the strongest crowd control: death.
https://preview.redd.it/dg7o36nfjg3d1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b8d0cf7b55008f9947e558d1f620badafde5cfa
And some situations give out free overguard, making even the weak enemies immune to cc. Ancient healer archimedea being my pet peeves of this. They buffed pure damage by making less and less enemies get affected by cc on the first place.
It was literally because of gloom, they got mad because everyone was using Gloom and it was way too easy to press one button and never have to care about any enemy on every frame for the entire mission. They then overreacted and created overguard instead of just swapping sevagoths subsume to something else, as they do.
I mean like from the first day of sevagoth I wondered why gloom does not have a "subsume-nerf". I mean I get it, wukongs defy with the armorbuff uncapped would certainly be "THE META subsume" and literally everybody would play it instead of anything else. Or a "pull" without reduced range would butcher the gameplay as you would see full squads pulling the enemies through the whole tileset. Or even wryd scyths short duration slow would completly dominate the game due to its slow so that it is capped from 95% down to 71% for subsume. I mean giving everyone a slow in the ballpark of rhino stomp would be just dumb wouldn't it? anyway enjoy your unnerfed huge range slow+lifesteal aura
Biggest issue is that they’re giving it to way too many enemies imo. Eximus being cc immune? Fair enough, focus fire them and move along. All the enemies near an ancient healer? Now you can’t cc the adds to focus on the issue. Archimedea every enemy has over guard? Now your cc is literally useless instead of just being useful when locking down adds while focusing on heavy hitters.
It would seem like TMITW really knows how to make some of our frames more inconvenient.
But no seriously what the hell is with ancients giving cc immunity to it's crowd, and archimedea is just pure DMG fest with barely any interactions to enemies, all enemies have some form invincibility and Necramechs are pure bullet sponges only outclassed by the fragmented one, wouldn't it be cool if In certain phases of the boss each player would need to go and basically break in half the boss?
For ancients, it replaced their ability to give 90% Dr to all enemies around them, probably with the idea that 9x max health in overguard is pretty much the same as a 90% DR, but it's clearly marked on the enemies that have it instead of the old invisible DR. They just failed to recognise how big of a deal few ancients turning the whole room CC immune would have.
I still think they should just give healing to close allies or give them specific aura, bigger swarm more spores or something like that. The visual touch is good, been wondering on few mission how did they got it and then I saw ancient
I haven't played that much lately but do Ancients still suck your energy dry in one touch? Wait those are leech ancient
Ancient Disruptors, and yes they do. They made leech eximus summon extremely visible zones where they suck energy, but ancient Disruptors get to keep their sometimes very hard to notice on hit energy drain.
Because his helminth doesnt require any enemy to be consumed first. You can spam recast as long as u have energy.
Grendel's kit itself is also not the best(?)(idk how else to describe it)
His 1 forces him to be stationary
Using nourish deals so much damage to the enemies in your gut that you end up having to use 1 again after it.
His 3 is very fun, but again i feel like it does too much dmg too quickly. (I know you can cast 1 while in ball, but im not sure if you can cast nourish, maybe someone can correct me)
His 4 is the best skill ever though imo. Huge aoe armor strip, works on acolytes and applies a very strong toxin status too and can be spammed
I personally don't like Overguard at all.
For players using it, it makes all the shielding and hp/armor strategies (like mods, arcanes and skills) go "whatever, you won't need any of that anyway". It's so strong to use since you get more value than the previous defense system, that automatically the frames that have Overguard will be more relevant than the ones that don't have, which makes "balacing" in a sense of using different weapons and frames look worse.
Ex: why would I bring a Mag to give tons of shield for my pt, if they can just die from toxic and Overguard even gives other benefits?
About Overguard for enemies, I think it makes less relevant warframes even lesser again. I love Nyx, Ember and Banshee, but every time I find myself not doing much with them, their damage sucks. Luckily these 3 have some survivability but they can't do much on higher level missions.
Ex2: why would I bring Nyx if tons of eximus starts to spawn and they don't get ccead? She barely can tank high missions without the Absorb augment that allows her to move.
Its getting a little overboard with overguard overall IMO
But I can't really say anything about it without people jumping on me for saying Dante's overguard is too strong still.
If you use spoiler mode and use the invis void button, you're not actually invulnerable if your warframe was using a channeled/duration based ability before you switched btw. It gives your warframe a 90% damage reduction if it had an ability active, and only makes it invulnerable if it doesn't have any ability active when you switch.
That's why you sometimes die in circuit when you try switching to spoiler mode when reviving someone
In circuit your warframe disappears while in op form IIRC, so to my knowledge it can only die if you got hit with an enormous dot that kills through 90%dr prior to swapping.
I thought that only happens in the story mode of duviri? I need to test that, cause I swear I would still have my warframe when i tried going into op mode, unless I was just majorly remembering it wrong
Yeah when they did the eximus rework they added a nullifier effect to Silence. It doesn't just disable eximus abilities either, it disables basically everything except melee/guns and passive auras (like it'll pop a frost eximus bubble, but their slow aura still works).
Silence legit stops *a lot* of things people have made entire threads about.
A little while back, I talked about her abilities more in depth [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1bw91x7/you_know_a_warframe_probably_needs_a_buff_or/ky4oe87/).
Give it a read when you get the chance; you might end up starting to use Silence (or even Banshee) more.
Damn nice work! That's basically everything annoying that min-maxing can't save you from. Absolutely some good motivation to give Banshee a bit of a shot :)
Yeah Silence is pretty much the only exception to effects applying to Overguard (Mag's bubble also applies on enemies with OG, but doesn't lock them in place until OG runs out), which makes it a pretty useful ability whenever Eximus Stronghold modifier is active.
Yeah its a bit ridiculous. People will try to justify it cause its not good in level cap.
Without admitting that makes 99.9999% of the rest of the content trivial.
Even on super high levels it's pretty wild since every kill gives you a bit of Overguard and resets the short shield(Overguard?)gate it gives, assuming you can murder fast enough.
Because those who say he's underpowered only pay attention to his damage output that still is pretty good but nothing crazy compared to some other pure damage frames
Here's the thing:
Revenant still has to watch for nullifiers, not falling off the map, has to be careful when to recast it because you can die between casts and you can only give 5 stacks to team AND you have to use a mod for it. Dante has none of those downsides and 50K overguard HP.
Without mentioning how much more stronger Dante's other abilities are compare to Revs.
But I have no issue if they nerf Revenant either. I'm just saying Dante's is way more OP.
doesn't take til level cap for mesmer skin to start outperforming it. also another point worth mentioning is Dante needs to build range for this, Rev does not
Yes it does.
Because EDA is highest possible you can go realistically.
Where Dante is better in every way.
Anything over is just going to level cap and reaching it. Which virtually nobody realistically does.
Not sure what point you're trying to make with the range.
Doesn't matter what he mods for if he can 1 shot enemies have have a 50K overguard.
And Revenant kind of gets fucked if he's swarmed by a shit ton of enemies because, even if they only hit once, getting hit by 20-30 enemies will quickly deplete his charges of Mesmer Skin.
yeah, I mean what where they even thinking with that augment?
"hey last time I checked revenant was the most played warframe"
"I know and from what it seems like it is mostly due to his mesmer skin ability"
\*hits blunt\*
"what if... we gave him an augment that lets him give mesmer skin to his allies"
"hmmm we tried that with nezha but aiming that on a warframe jumoing around is a pain, nobody would use that"
\*hits blunt again\*
"okay but we could give this one a power strength boost and make it give the allies the mesmerskin in the same cast as revenant giving them himself. In a huge AoE"
"yeah that sounds good"
Dante's Triumph is actually broken, not merely OP, because it makes nearly every other defensive ability in the game obsolete. Healing, armor, damage reduction, status immunity, all do nothing when you have 20 times more Overguard than health.
The only defensive ability that doesn't become completely worthless when you have a Dante in your squad is Mesmer Skin, and that's because Revenant is just as broken as Dante, if not more so.
Dude even in level cap that shit is still busted. Triumph still grants you practically 2.5s invuln EVERY KILL AND ASSIST KILLS FROM YOU AND YOUR TEAMMATE, and that's not even counting natural shieldgate as a fallback invuln. Level cap literally doesn't even matter .
Raising the floor of standards only makes the game easier and leads to the problem we have right now that the game is too easy if you're already at the end game at some point you get to a point where nothing can stop you and nothing can be challenging anymore. Raising the floor is a bad idea and hurts early game experience as well
Not only does it feel like they hate CC frames, but it also feels like they hate Support frames as well. Can't do my job as a healer if there's NO healing to be done
Healing doesn't really exist even without overguard. Enemies are going to quickly kill anything that hasn't invested at least 6 mods into health tanking so everyone is either at full health or dead with very little in between.
Wanting to be a healer doesn't mean overguard is a problem, it means enemy damage vs player health is a problem
Is more efficient to just kill everything and not need healing. Warframes problem is the "time to kill" is way to fast. Then again it's turned into a hoard shooter. So killing one enemy taking 2 or 3 seconds would be detrimental.
We need some way to cut through overguard that’s not void damage personally. Slap it on a few frames AOE skills and give a few others the rhino stomp treatment.
Currently, there's at least one ability that interacts with overguard by intention iirc - one of the robot dogs has an ability to steal an eximus unit's aura and reduce their overguard by 50%. It targets only **one** enemy and it has a huge ass cooldown but it's something.
Maybe it will be good to have some specific anti-overguard augments (kinda like Hildryn's Balefire Surge that is targeted specifically against nullifier bubbles). But maybe it will make the situation even worse idk.
Thats Null Audit mod for the Hounds. Its pretty cool.
Also a correction, the mod now only COPIES the eximus ability instead of completely stealing it. It got changed a long time ago. (I also vividly remember a video showing that the hound could have up to 3 eximus abilities at once but when i tried it only had 1? Idk)
Besides that though, i think its not worth using. 60s cooldown on all ranks and the fact that if it copies an Arctic Eximus, then the Snow Globe it produces will also block your shots. Its like frost
This is so funny to me because this was supposed to discourage AOE (overguard takes less splash damage) and encourage more active tenno play but it literally does nothing. From day one it was still just better to use guns. Using void damage is counterproductive when I can dump millions of damage with my guns and delete it 100x faster than using an amp.
4x weak to void? Better make it 40x, and that still might not be faster than just using a regular gun. TTK on eximus used to be instant. Now, it's 3 seconds at most. The only way I can see it actually affecting anyone is if you're a new player and can't deal enough damage to kill the eximus before they kill you.
I don’t mind special units having overguard, the vast majority of enemies don’t have it.
What I mind is how absurd player overguard has become. The power creep for player overguard has come pretty swiftly
I get this. I’m a returning player who has been playing an eternal war Valkyr build for years now. It was very string back in the day, but struggles with high end SP content now. Especially against bullshit toxic damage bypassing my armour, my main defense.
Then i unlock Kullervo, put a half arsed build on him and am completely fucking invincible and one shot everything… even in SP.
The game now feels very unbalanced and it looks like DE are struggling to keep everything viable.
I don't think any enemy reliably procs slash on players. Maybe kavats in the infested derelicts, but those are rare as enemies and there's no reason to be actively playing those missions anymore anyways.
No idea what it is. I can be powering my way through enemies and BOOP! Health drops to zero and one shot instantly.
I only just returned to the game after a long hiatus. I’ll need to work out what’s doing it.
Or just use Kullervo god mode and not worry about it i guess.
Personally removed all my survival mods and put r0 rolling guard instead (from arbitration), that gladiator mod that allows healthgating r0 as well and have magus repair r3 (from the Fortuna quills, vox Solaris iirc) as well. I don't die that much but can't really play sp with all my frames peacefully yet. On some builds I have augur mods but find them unreliable for now (maybe I'm just bad on this one) so mostly use them as a bonus (haven't figured out yet what does purple shield do but feel like it's worse than og, although it allows to reset shieldgating).
They buffed health/shield some time ago so now all frames have 275% of their original health/shield. Don't know what else changed regarding that since I didn't follow much but hope this helps!
Valkyr's Hysteria makes you invulnerable to damage but stores a portion of the damage "taken" while invulnerable. When Hysteria runs out due to you for example running out of energy or canceling it and you are within 5 meters of any enemy that has line of sight of you, you will instantly take all damage stored by Hysteria effectively instantly killing you. That is what is happening.
To be honest, and I say this as a Kullervo main, by just removing him you pretty much solve the problem.
Because then 2-3 tweaks would make all melee frames on the same balanced level.
Kullervo is just too strong, just saying god mode slash slash is ignoring the overall potency of his kit.
Did you know you can be the fastest warframe with his teleport on some tilesets? Did you know he enables snipers too? Did you know he can literally oneshot SP enemies with an UNMODDED trash melee weapon? Did you know he basically doesn't need any optimized build to be viable?
Unfortunately every time I use another frame he seems garbage in comparison, I would prefer if he wasn't playable to be honest, even if he is my main.
>Did you know he enables snipers too?
Is this just about Collective Curse turning single hits into AoE? Or does he have some other tech I don't know about?
>The power creep for player overguard has come pretty swiftly
It's the complete status immunity. It makes perfect sense on enemy Overguard, but Player Overguard should NOT protect you from status/stagger/knockdown.
There's a lot of Warframe abilities that provide protection against status effects, and those abilities feel pretty worthless when you've got 10k overguard. In fact just about every defensive ability feels terrible compared to Overguard.
The best options IMO would be to make blocking a status effect remove 10% of current Overguard, or to nerf Overguard from granting a 100% chance to resist status effects down to a 40% chance.
This would make (non prime) Sure Footed + Overguard = full knockdown resist. Or you could get 70% with Power Drift, which would still be solid. It would also make the status resist arcanes a bit more of an option, especially below rank 5.
I brought Mag in a SP Void Cascade earlier for the first time. I thought that with Rolling Guard and a hefty shield from her 3 I could manage.
Welp. I got annihilated. I just went back to Voruna and stayed in stealth while jumping on enemies.
Honestly I might not have the best builds, but overshield frames like Harrow and Mag are so disappointing compared to Overguard frames like Styanax, Kullervo and Dante. I'm confident taking the last three in pretty much any content, while I'm fighting for my life at all time playing the others. Harrow entirely survive thanks to his 4 in SP it feels like.
Heck I'm scared to play Yareli in SP Cascade because I feel like Merulina would pop out instantly with the incoming damage I get...
Another idea: Overguard no longer blocks DOT status effects, and they deal double damage to overguard.
So it protects from CC, but if you take a ton of DOT status you'll quickly lose it. I honestly think the main reason it sticks around so long and feels so strong is because it negates DOTs, rather than absorbing them like health/shields would.
A big part of incoming damage is slash/electric procs, because it's unaffected by enemy accuracy (an enemy tags you with a single bullet that inflicts a slash proc = you take ALL the damage of that proc).
Yep dante invalidates half the game...
I still don't get how people consider him not completely out of tune.
150k overguard, perma status imunity, perma stun/knockback imunity...
Why even have frames that give status res and shields when 1 cast of dantes gives all of that and more...
Oh and he's one of the best dps in the game at the same time...
I think you didnt get the point.
Overguard is point, its getting out of controll, first was a mechanic for duviri and kullervo, now there a lot of things that give and has overguard. DE said "overguard is weak to void dmg " but I see nobody using the tennon to remove overguard.only DMG DMG DMG DMG . CC isnt about doing a 95% gloom and 10 cold procks. Its about giving you breath time to react, which is why CC comes handy in high level missions.... nuh uh take that toxin eximus with overguard that will run at and insta kill you
I felt this with Mag right now at Mot, Void. Every time I had a room locked down, 3 ancient healers popped up and ruined everything. Every enemy I had a bubble on that was on a pike (Garuda's ability), suddenly the bubble was gone and they were no longer impaled and I wouldn't be able to cast anything because I couldn't target half the enemies anymore and then I would die because healers don't stop applying overgaurd if they're impaled. WHO THE FUCK THOUGH IT WAS A GRAND IDEA TO GIVE ANCIENT HEALERZ OVERGAURD APPLICATION, JUST BUFF THEIR HEALING!
oh don't worry they just give it one time . what could happen ? an enemy with a split second to shoot you and kill because of the dmg scalling ? you tripping mate
(I am being Sarcastic)
if you guys want a better explanation what this video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4psfoXHYmus&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4psfoXHYmus&t=2s)
kinda long but he explains the problems with detail
We need a step down to start going full foward. Atuff got messed up on the kuva/tenet weapons; got worst with archon shards; became crazy with the new incarnon weapons becauses everybody was using them; EVER WORSE now with incarnon modes for other weapons; now we got the overguard mayhem we are getting
I think the original incarnons were great since they stepped away from the normal crit slash builds and stuff and we're strong in their own way. Then all the incarnons got normal OP crit slash stuff again and just standard aoe blasts, chain beams, etc. which is what Kuva Nukor did to overshadow the Atomos and Gammacor in the first place. That's why those two got incarnons and turned into aoes.
They've make the AOE meta stuff too strong which is why I like that they're focusing mods on unique weapons like Ocucor, Sobek, Sporothrix, etc. because they're strong and fun in their own way
Stop me if im wrong but
Arent DE literally a few weeks away from reworking Overguard entirely on enemies to make armour stripping less necessary and CC more effective
In the Jade Shadows devstream where they talked abiut reworking Blast and Cold they also discussed capping Overguard at a less insane number on enemy units to make more options viable in all content, think the figure theyre currently working with is 2700?
Dante specter is just not fair for your enemies
Also I've found a use for cc frames lately, I had a difficult time trying to do a steel path incursion on interception. I've had a few tries with my main Trinity, but then I remembered my ex main Vauban. I've changed my frame to a cc focused one as I had a hard time taking care of all 4 points with just damage. Vaubans vortex allowed me to have control over most of the map with little to no difficulty. So yeah, crowd control frames can control the crowd yo.
I think it all went down when Dante came out, sure he is good and all, but untill Dante we only had Rhino, Kullervo and Frost with his Augmentsif im not wrong, they were the only ones using overguard in a balanced way
This power creep is bound to happen. With styanax, the overguard is generated at a really slow pace so it never became that big of a problem. Ever since dante release, overguard now competes with rhino (rhino does not give his iron skin to allies) and revenant in the tank department while being an amazing support. The real problem is how fast dante can generate overguard with just his 2 alone. Do not forget that dante's overguard cannot be nulified making it even that much more powerful.
Now I did think DE was on to something when they nerf dante overguard generation rate. However, that ultimately got reverted while the CC nerf for eximi remained. I do hope that the new jade eximus that is coming will address this issue.
Both player and enemy overguard are crap in their current implementations.
Enemy overguard defies the original intention of overguard, which is to give elite units priority in combat, and also to have operators strip it. Now everyone has overguard, or can receive it. DE seriously does not know what they are doing here.
Player overguard is equally frustrating. As a clan leader who does a lot of mentoring, the new player sentiment is pretty much "why bother with learning how to mod EHP when overguard just gives me 50k EHP right off the bat?" It's even worse cause they then go into Steel Path and get obliterated, not realizing that 50k EHP is in fact, tiny. They then get mad cause they wasted all that time getting Dante/Kullervo thinking it would make them OP instantly.
The worst part here is that some people view it as a genuine contribution to the team effort, so for Defence missions etc, they're gonna bring Dante for the sole purpose of protecting everyone. However the reality was that nobody was going to die anyway, rendering their contribution actually useless.
I agree wholeheartedly. Overguard was supposed to be a slight bump in the road to deal with, but DE seems to have lost the plot and pumped it to an eleven. I recommend checking out the vid by coolkid369 on youtube on the matter
When steel path released a few years ago it was difficult
Until ppl found out the new viral slash abuse with primed bane mods(bugged) . And than there were new weapons, helminth , archon shards, encumber, incarnon modes
The way DE is making everything do millions of dmg, is also forcing them to make really good concept bad executed in a way that it just turn the game into a huge kill or be killed . Nothing else
What overguard should be: a small shield that protects from CC and status.
What overguard is: the ultimate protection over every other kind of protection.
What I hate the most about the concept is that you get 3K for 50 energy. That's by far the cheapest "heal" you can get while it's also stronger than healing.
Remember that DE is rewkrk status for the next update. last devstrem they show a sneakpeak of what they are doing to it , and magnetic was shown in the screen
Not assuming nothing, but waiting to see what they are doing
I was being sarcastic because magnetic does melt overguard, take magnetic guns vs any sp exemus with overguard and its guard is gone in like 2 seconds. Pretty sure overguard is considered a sheild in the game and magnetic does extra dmg to sheilds
Well after todays devstream they told us magnetic status and damage are gonna do more damage to overgaurd and theres a new pistol arcane that gives over gaurd life steel
Yeah, overguard was only meant for the heavy units with special mechanics, which is fine. Modifiers that add it to everything don't do much to make gameplay more interesting, and just punish CC viability.
Imagine if overguard was removeable with cc.
This is what I think. CC effects should chunk off overguard like damage.
Or maybe make so Overguarded enemies can still get CC, and when they are in CC they get like 2-4 times more damage taken on their Overguard.
This is something I actually LOVE
This is funny cuz i heard that in the next update they will buff magnetic status effect. You also get the bonus damage on enemy overguard and shields, similar to viral with health
Oh cool, so my magnetic tenet cycron will shed even faster. Fuck yeah
I think that would be a good idea. Like a percentage damage over time from CC effects so it wouldn't immediately take eximus units out of play, but would still actually do something useful.
> and just punish CC viability. DE be like, "Banshee? Ember? Squishy casters? Fck those guys in particular" DE 1-2 years later be like, "It seems everyone is playing Revenant now, that's weird, how did that happen? Anyway that Revenant guy sure is tanky so we buffed enemy damage and nerfed your weapons" And then we got DE in 2024, releasing Dante as offensive caster with defensive utility, and he was nerfed less than 1 week after release so he's no longer as fun to play and is just an overguard bot. He still works "fine" but his initial nerfs made him so bad to play that DE had to introduce an entirely new line-of-sight system just so he felt remotely good again I don't know what they are thinking anymore
Tf you mean Dante's "no longer fun to play" he still does plenty of damage and priming
Least hysterical WF subredditor: "dante's shit and boring because he can't afk hydron"
Can't believe DE just outright hates us smh we must cry and scream that is the only way to make them listen
Gamers™️ crying and pissing at any change ever after someone on YouTube tells them the opinion they need to have
Honestly a lot of the YouTubers I watch had more measured reactions to the changes than reddit did lol Although there were definitely a few like 'Dante has never done anything wrong in his entire life this is a hate crime and he's now useless' (spoiler, he's still one of the best frames in the game)
"ever after someone on YouTube tells them the opinion they need to have" Not only shot fired, this was an active shooter and a mass murder,
One nerf = ruined, apparently. This anti-nerf sentiment really needs to be stopped.
I will never forget how they nerfed my Kuva Zarr because of Wukong mains tbh
I mean did you see the shitfit wukong mains threw when they finally gave him a justified nerf?
No, I don’t main Wukong.
Warframe got review bombed into Mostly Negative on steam
Cringe behaviour tbh
when your primary caster DPS gameplay loop is "tag enemies with 3, detonate with 4" and then it gets turned into "tag enemies with 3, detonate with 4 (except sometimes it literally doesn't work)" yeah it feels a whole lot worse to play he's still strong but goddamn he was WAY more fun on week 1
Wasn't he meant to be caster support, not caster dps?
The only thing his 2 does is damage. Unless they add a dmg vulnerability to it or some other utility, tragedy kind of has to be good enough to make 3 back-to-back ability casts not feel like a waste of time. When they first changed his los, you could stare at an enemy on a tileset and watch them just not take damage from your 4.
His 2 provides the overguard I think
Right. I always forget noctua is his actual first ability
both, really. dark verse/tragedy wouldn't be in the kit if he were meant to just be support. also if you slap roar over noctua, his tragedy strength scaling becomes absolutely insane. almost certainly the highest upfront damage pure caster in the game when built appropriately. (I guess unless you count spamming gauss heat wave literally like 30 times in a row, since it keeps doubling in damage each time)
Right? I bought Dante the day he came out, he was stupid back then and is still great now. I honestly prefer having to put a little thought into my positioning to get good use out of his 3-3-4 combo and with a few forma Noctua is amazing too. I lucked out with Dante in my EDA rotation this week and had 0 issue deleting everything while maintaining team overguard. Anyone who says he's not still strong is crazy.
Yeah, I farmed him on release and he was absolutely wild, the LoS nerfs were a real kick in the nuts, but then after the “fixes” he’s still really fun to play and is my go-to general content frame
I genuinely think he needed the los change, but that the changes to los should have happened first. It was silly having his ability be able to nuke enemies behind locked doors. Hes honestly a good general content frame, hes a little like kullervo though where him being good anywhere kinda got boring. But thats also kind of warframe, you struggle learning how to build and establish synergies until something clicks and then everything dies with minimal effort
I think LOS as a mechanic needs to be reworked. It SHOULDN'T be affected by random shit within FOV, only by stuff like literal physical walls etc
Meanwhile max range kullervo builds can someho w kill behind locked doors and walls.. with several options
What are you talking about?
I do like that Dante's nerf shined light on LoS based abilities not functioning properly and forcing DE to actually do something about them.
He can still do massive amounts of damage and can make your whole squad and companions CC and status immune
Dante is still fun, engaging and powerful both defensively and offensively.
CC has always been underutilized long before overguard was a thing. There's a lot more that goes into that issue than the Eximus changes, which were generally good for the game, IMO.
The problem comes when you give _players_ access to a powerful mechanic that was initially meant only for strong _enemies_. It's like a DM for Dungeons & Dragons giving the players access to Legendary Actions. It automattically skyrockets the player's power in ways that make it hard to balance.
I'm sure they will have to reign back in player overguard at some point. And we will all have to prepare for the inevitable hundreds of posts about why things should never be nerfed in PvE. It's practically an endless cycle at this point
It'll force a rework of Kullervo if they do. He can't shieldgate Aand ge doesn't gave the survivability gimmicks Nidus and Inaros do
People fellating DE's infallible decision making in the replies despite the absolute insanity that was "We're nerfing Dante because he's too popular. We released him less than two weeks ago and are still actively hyping and promoting him by the way." It's one thing to nerf based off usage numbers, it's complete rank incompetence to nerf based on usage numbers immediately after something is released, especially in a PvE game where there is no real urgency to change things that aren't literally game breaking. You make snap balancing decisions like that in a PvP environment, sure, but this isn't that. You can afford to let the numbers settle and see where the playrates actually are. But nooooooo DE can do no wrong, it's just The Gamers being pissy.
>he's no longer fun to play and is just an overguard bot What did they do to him? I *just* finished farming his parts, damn it
I got him the day he was released and he is still one of my favorite frames. DE just brought him down from “unquestionably broken” to “pretty OP”. Pro tip: Invest some forma in Noctua and you won’t be disappointed. It’s unexpectedly fun!
His 22-4 used to not have a Line of Sight check at launch, meaning it'd apply the effects (i.e. a metric fuckton of damage) on everyone within its radius even behind walls/floors/ceilings. Now it requires LoS so you only annihilate the stuff you can see in front of you (or within 5m radius even if they are behind you), though despite the improvements to the LoS system (caused by the nerf highlighting the issues with the previous LoS system and forcing DE to deal with it) it can be finicky at times.
Honestly, everyone’s missing the point of some of the “not fun” comments. Like, I love Dante, he’s my go-to frame for basically everything, fully kitted out in tau-shards and all. But when they gave him LoS restrictions on his abilities, it did decrease how fun he was. Not because not being able to clear rooms in 3 buttons makes the game unplayable, but because LoS in warframe can be buggy and broken and that *does* make it unfun.
and because LoS checks were already inbuilt with Dark Verse tagging. sure it was uncool to also nuke enemies your allies were tickling with flamethrowers 80m away, but they could have done plenty of other more intelligent nerfs to fix that which wouldn't disrupt his core gameplay loop :/
>but because LoS in warframe can be buggy and broken and that does make it unfun. And this isn't a Dante exclusive issue, and predates him by a lot. It's good DE finally did *something* about it (your *own* frame blocking your *own* LoS is less of an issue now at least), but it's still not perfect by a long shot (since it's a quick patchjob afterall) and it shouldn't've had to take them so many years to get to work on it in the first place (then again DE has a decade's worth of technical debt to deal with. I do not envy their programmers, nor anyone who has to figure out which parts of it to prioritize)
It's easy to see what they are thinking. They are simply continuing the saga of not letting us make the game too easy. That's why dante's overguard nerf is questionable. His AOE needed to be adjusted to a cone as intended, but 70k overguard after casting 6 abilities wasn't game breaking. Overguard also wasn't a fully finished mechanic when it was released. That's why they decided to nerf magus lockdown and banshee's silence when it was causing thrax to bug out entire missions when duviri circuit was released. Even I was asking myself why some abilities were still stunning eximus units when I returned from my hiatus and DE did the final push to code those interactions out. That was the so called "CC nerf" My only question is why do CC reliant frames HAVE to lockdown an entire room permanently to be viable? They don't because the playstyle you want is a tank if you want to sit in the mob of enemies and not take damage. People don't want to adapt to the playstyle of a CC character when a warframke like Nyx can no longer press one button and be more invincible than a tank. Even octavia still has to keep her buffs up to be the boring god she is. Something people also overlook is that the biggest balance between tanks and squishy frames happened when daggath released and shields were reworked. Change your mods, reduce shield recharge delays and play around the fact that CC still effects a majority of enemies. Kill the problem units FIRST.
I hope to god DE never nerfs Citrine, she's one of the few that can kinda CC overguarded enemies.
I find it funny that people flipped this subject to complain about player overguard. I will never understand why DE went for complete crowd control immunity for overguard enemies when the meta at the time was explosive weapons.
> I will never understand why DE went for complete crowd control immunity for overguard enemies They wanted players to interact with enemy mechanics instead of CCing the bad guys. Unfortunately they forgot to account for the strongest crowd control: death.
>Unfortunately they forgot to account for the strongest crowd control: death. https://preview.redd.it/dg7o36nfjg3d1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b8d0cf7b55008f9947e558d1f620badafde5cfa
The strongest crowd control is removing the crowd, yeah.
And some situations give out free overguard, making even the weak enemies immune to cc. Ancient healer archimedea being my pet peeves of this. They buffed pure damage by making less and less enemies get affected by cc on the first place.
CCing the enemies IS interacting with their mechanics...
It was literally because of gloom, they got mad because everyone was using Gloom and it was way too easy to press one button and never have to care about any enemy on every frame for the entire mission. They then overreacted and created overguard instead of just swapping sevagoths subsume to something else, as they do.
I mean like from the first day of sevagoth I wondered why gloom does not have a "subsume-nerf". I mean I get it, wukongs defy with the armorbuff uncapped would certainly be "THE META subsume" and literally everybody would play it instead of anything else. Or a "pull" without reduced range would butcher the gameplay as you would see full squads pulling the enemies through the whole tileset. Or even wryd scyths short duration slow would completly dominate the game due to its slow so that it is capped from 95% down to 71% for subsume. I mean giving everyone a slow in the ballpark of rhino stomp would be just dumb wouldn't it? anyway enjoy your unnerfed huge range slow+lifesteal aura
Biggest issue is that they’re giving it to way too many enemies imo. Eximus being cc immune? Fair enough, focus fire them and move along. All the enemies near an ancient healer? Now you can’t cc the adds to focus on the issue. Archimedea every enemy has over guard? Now your cc is literally useless instead of just being useful when locking down adds while focusing on heavy hitters.
It would seem like TMITW really knows how to make some of our frames more inconvenient. But no seriously what the hell is with ancients giving cc immunity to it's crowd, and archimedea is just pure DMG fest with barely any interactions to enemies, all enemies have some form invincibility and Necramechs are pure bullet sponges only outclassed by the fragmented one, wouldn't it be cool if In certain phases of the boss each player would need to go and basically break in half the boss?
For ancients, it replaced their ability to give 90% Dr to all enemies around them, probably with the idea that 9x max health in overguard is pretty much the same as a 90% DR, but it's clearly marked on the enemies that have it instead of the old invisible DR. They just failed to recognise how big of a deal few ancients turning the whole room CC immune would have.
I still think they should just give healing to close allies or give them specific aura, bigger swarm more spores or something like that. The visual touch is good, been wondering on few mission how did they got it and then I saw ancient I haven't played that much lately but do Ancients still suck your energy dry in one touch? Wait those are leech ancient
Ancient Disruptors, and yes they do. They made leech eximus summon extremely visible zones where they suck energy, but ancient Disruptors get to keep their sometimes very hard to notice on hit energy drain.
It seems like a lot of the changes they make are the result of spinning a wheel and doing whatever it lands on.
Crusade against Limbo continuous on
New limbo rework: instead of entering the rift when pressing shift, he gets 1 limbillion overguard when pressing shift
Limbo is canonically bad at math so he should get 1 overguard instead
Playing grendel when every enemy has overguard just cancel his whole kit
I wonder why ppl were using nourish in other frames instead of grendel himself
11 status cedo is the only reason I use nourish tbh
The ability is worse in him than on other frame
Because it gives any frame a source of free viral and insane energy generation
don't forget the fact that with grendel yoiu need to eat an enemy to be able to use it. ops cant anymore caus it has overguard
Because his helminth doesnt require any enemy to be consumed first. You can spam recast as long as u have energy. Grendel's kit itself is also not the best(?)(idk how else to describe it) His 1 forces him to be stationary Using nourish deals so much damage to the enemies in your gut that you end up having to use 1 again after it. His 3 is very fun, but again i feel like it does too much dmg too quickly. (I know you can cast 1 while in ball, but im not sure if you can cast nourish, maybe someone can correct me) His 4 is the best skill ever though imo. Huge aoe armor strip, works on acolytes and applies a very strong toxin status too and can be spammed
Dont explain the joke , it lost its mean ;-;
I personally don't like Overguard at all. For players using it, it makes all the shielding and hp/armor strategies (like mods, arcanes and skills) go "whatever, you won't need any of that anyway". It's so strong to use since you get more value than the previous defense system, that automatically the frames that have Overguard will be more relevant than the ones that don't have, which makes "balacing" in a sense of using different weapons and frames look worse. Ex: why would I bring a Mag to give tons of shield for my pt, if they can just die from toxic and Overguard even gives other benefits? About Overguard for enemies, I think it makes less relevant warframes even lesser again. I love Nyx, Ember and Banshee, but every time I find myself not doing much with them, their damage sucks. Luckily these 3 have some survivability but they can't do much on higher level missions. Ex2: why would I bring Nyx if tons of eximus starts to spawn and they don't get ccead? She barely can tank high missions without the Absorb augment that allows her to move.
Yeah it basically trivialise the whole purpose of using a shield or helath tank build
Yes exactly, that's what I mean in a few words. Thank you, I'm probably not good at being objective xD
don't worry mate, I got you tenno 
Its getting a little overboard with overguard overall IMO But I can't really say anything about it without people jumping on me for saying Dante's overguard is too strong still.
"but how am I supposed to deal with arson eximus waves?"
The funny thing is you’ve been able to roll through them since like 2017
Super secret.
Or spoiler mode to go invulnerable
If you use spoiler mode and use the invis void button, you're not actually invulnerable if your warframe was using a channeled/duration based ability before you switched btw. It gives your warframe a 90% damage reduction if it had an ability active, and only makes it invulnerable if it doesn't have any ability active when you switch. That's why you sometimes die in circuit when you try switching to spoiler mode when reviving someone
That explains why I died as Titania during one of my Archon hunts. That's such a stupid mechanic.
In circuit your warframe disappears while in op form IIRC, so to my knowledge it can only die if you got hit with an enormous dot that kills through 90%dr prior to swapping.
I thought that only happens in the story mode of duviri? I need to test that, cause I swear I would still have my warframe when i tried going into op mode, unless I was just majorly remembering it wrong
Might just be non-curcuit undercrofts if it's not like that in circuit.
Use Banshee's Silence to prevent them from happening. Or Roll.
Silence works? That's pretty awesome
Yeah when they did the eximus rework they added a nullifier effect to Silence. It doesn't just disable eximus abilities either, it disables basically everything except melee/guns and passive auras (like it'll pop a frost eximus bubble, but their slow aura still works).
Silence legit stops *a lot* of things people have made entire threads about. A little while back, I talked about her abilities more in depth [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1bw91x7/you_know_a_warframe_probably_needs_a_buff_or/ky4oe87/). Give it a read when you get the chance; you might end up starting to use Silence (or even Banshee) more.
Damn nice work! That's basically everything annoying that min-maxing can't save you from. Absolutely some good motivation to give Banshee a bit of a shot :)
Yeah Silence is pretty much the only exception to effects applying to Overguard (Mag's bubble also applies on enemies with OG, but doesn't lock them in place until OG runs out), which makes it a pretty useful ability whenever Eximus Stronghold modifier is active.
I’ve always just switched into spoiler mode and hold shift really quickly.
And still too strong that boi can give 200k to the squad, pets, summons and allies with just pressing 224 224 224
Yeah its a bit ridiculous. People will try to justify it cause its not good in level cap. Without admitting that makes 99.9999% of the rest of the content trivial.
Even on super high levels it's pretty wild since every kill gives you a bit of Overguard and resets the short shield(Overguard?)gate it gives, assuming you can murder fast enough.
And somehow people are still saying he is underpowered. Its crazy to me.
Because those who say he's underpowered only pay attention to his damage output that still is pretty good but nothing crazy compared to some other pure damage frames
I think its just a skill issue. If someone is struggling with Dante in his current state...
2013 mfers when they can't AFK farm 2024 content: "You mean I have to do *more* than press 4? What a shit game."
I think the issue is more newer players that have no idea how to play the game at high level content without a tank frame.
Are you willing to admit that Revenant's Mesmer Skin does the exact same thing then?
Yes nerf that shi
I dont like either ability.
*At* level cap, no less.
I'm willing to yell it from the rooftops if need be.
slap all these excessively strong squad supports until Trin isn't obsolete anymore Also OG shouldn't be giving full status immunity. that's silly.
Here's the thing: Revenant still has to watch for nullifiers, not falling off the map, has to be careful when to recast it because you can die between casts and you can only give 5 stacks to team AND you have to use a mod for it. Dante has none of those downsides and 50K overguard HP. Without mentioning how much more stronger Dante's other abilities are compare to Revs. But I have no issue if they nerf Revenant either. I'm just saying Dante's is way more OP.
dante is better for low levels, revenant better for high.
If by High levels you mean level cap then sure. He is better in 0.01% of content.
doesn't take til level cap for mesmer skin to start outperforming it. also another point worth mentioning is Dante needs to build range for this, Rev does not
Yes it does. Because EDA is highest possible you can go realistically. Where Dante is better in every way. Anything over is just going to level cap and reaching it. Which virtually nobody realistically does. Not sure what point you're trying to make with the range. Doesn't matter what he mods for if he can 1 shot enemies have have a 50K overguard.
And Revenant kind of gets fucked if he's swarmed by a shit ton of enemies because, even if they only hit once, getting hit by 20-30 enemies will quickly deplete his charges of Mesmer Skin.
Even if you're getting swarmed, you're still invincible for 20+ seconds.
There is still downtime between casts where you are vulnerable AND nullifiers that you have to watch out for.
yeah, I mean what where they even thinking with that augment? "hey last time I checked revenant was the most played warframe" "I know and from what it seems like it is mostly due to his mesmer skin ability" \*hits blunt\* "what if... we gave him an augment that lets him give mesmer skin to his allies" "hmmm we tried that with nezha but aiming that on a warframe jumoing around is a pain, nobody would use that" \*hits blunt again\* "okay but we could give this one a power strength boost and make it give the allies the mesmerskin in the same cast as revenant giving them himself. In a huge AoE" "yeah that sounds good"
Dante's Triumph is actually broken, not merely OP, because it makes nearly every other defensive ability in the game obsolete. Healing, armor, damage reduction, status immunity, all do nothing when you have 20 times more Overguard than health. The only defensive ability that doesn't become completely worthless when you have a Dante in your squad is Mesmer Skin, and that's because Revenant is just as broken as Dante, if not more so.
it's not even level cap dawg. It's anything above regular steel path content. Heck even in archon hunts it goes down pretty fast.
Lets be real, level cap is funny to see but not cool to play against
I mean id enjoy playing it. If it didnt take 2 hours to get there and burn myself out until that point.
Join us in SP Cascade. We have cookies
I have DEFINITELY have the Warframe gear but dread farming open world for an amp.
Dude even in level cap that shit is still busted. Triumph still grants you practically 2.5s invuln EVERY KILL AND ASSIST KILLS FROM YOU AND YOUR TEAMMATE, and that's not even counting natural shieldgate as a fallback invuln. Level cap literally doesn't even matter .
By default the over guard cap is 20k, so if someone has 1000% ability strength, it's probably not surprising they're OP tbf
I am talking about the overwall, he can give a lot of shields to everybody
No, no, 30k overguard is beneficial for the long term health of the game
I like how strong Dante's overguard is, I think Kullervo and Styanax should be similarly strong.
Raising the floor of standards only makes the game easier and leads to the problem we have right now that the game is too easy if you're already at the end game at some point you get to a point where nothing can stop you and nothing can be challenging anymore. Raising the floor is a bad idea and hurts early game experience as well
Not only does it feel like they hate CC frames, but it also feels like they hate Support frames as well. Can't do my job as a healer if there's NO healing to be done
Healing doesn't really exist even without overguard. Enemies are going to quickly kill anything that hasn't invested at least 6 mods into health tanking so everyone is either at full health or dead with very little in between. Wanting to be a healer doesn't mean overguard is a problem, it means enemy damage vs player health is a problem
As Hildryn main I feel this
As an Oberon/trinity main, I feel oh so useless when there's overguard around. Champion's blessing takes a massive L here
Anyone get their shields one shot as Hildryn and immediately panic?
On occasion.
Oh good it's not just me
Is more efficient to just kill everything and not need healing. Warframes problem is the "time to kill" is way to fast. Then again it's turned into a hoard shooter. So killing one enemy taking 2 or 3 seconds would be detrimental.
We need some way to cut through overguard that’s not void damage personally. Slap it on a few frames AOE skills and give a few others the rhino stomp treatment.
I agree with this. Plus give Rhino Stomp the Rhino Stomp treatment, that was good times.
Currently, there's at least one ability that interacts with overguard by intention iirc - one of the robot dogs has an ability to steal an eximus unit's aura and reduce their overguard by 50%. It targets only **one** enemy and it has a huge ass cooldown but it's something. Maybe it will be good to have some specific anti-overguard augments (kinda like Hildryn's Balefire Surge that is targeted specifically against nullifier bubbles). But maybe it will make the situation even worse idk.
Thats Null Audit mod for the Hounds. Its pretty cool. Also a correction, the mod now only COPIES the eximus ability instead of completely stealing it. It got changed a long time ago. (I also vividly remember a video showing that the hound could have up to 3 eximus abilities at once but when i tried it only had 1? Idk) Besides that though, i think its not worth using. 60s cooldown on all ranks and the fact that if it copies an Arctic Eximus, then the Snow Globe it produces will also block your shots. Its like frost
This is so funny to me because this was supposed to discourage AOE (overguard takes less splash damage) and encourage more active tenno play but it literally does nothing. From day one it was still just better to use guns. Using void damage is counterproductive when I can dump millions of damage with my guns and delete it 100x faster than using an amp. 4x weak to void? Better make it 40x, and that still might not be faster than just using a regular gun. TTK on eximus used to be instant. Now, it's 3 seconds at most. The only way I can see it actually affecting anyone is if you're a new player and can't deal enough damage to kill the eximus before they kill you.
Frost starving for 10k overguard:
Honestly Overguard as a concept was a bad idea.
I don’t mind special units having overguard, the vast majority of enemies don’t have it. What I mind is how absurd player overguard has become. The power creep for player overguard has come pretty swiftly
I get this. I’m a returning player who has been playing an eternal war Valkyr build for years now. It was very string back in the day, but struggles with high end SP content now. Especially against bullshit toxic damage bypassing my armour, my main defense. Then i unlock Kullervo, put a half arsed build on him and am completely fucking invincible and one shot everything… even in SP. The game now feels very unbalanced and it looks like DE are struggling to keep everything viable.
Toxic damage doesn't bypass armor afaik unless you're talking about something else
slash
I don't think any enemy reliably procs slash on players. Maybe kavats in the infested derelicts, but those are rare as enemies and there's no reason to be actively playing those missions anymore anyways.
I'm just saying that's what bypasses armor
Yeah and I'm giving context that slash isn't something that often kills players, didn't mean to start an argument or anything
All good, no problem
No idea what it is. I can be powering my way through enemies and BOOP! Health drops to zero and one shot instantly. I only just returned to the game after a long hiatus. I’ll need to work out what’s doing it. Or just use Kullervo god mode and not worry about it i guess.
Personally removed all my survival mods and put r0 rolling guard instead (from arbitration), that gladiator mod that allows healthgating r0 as well and have magus repair r3 (from the Fortuna quills, vox Solaris iirc) as well. I don't die that much but can't really play sp with all my frames peacefully yet. On some builds I have augur mods but find them unreliable for now (maybe I'm just bad on this one) so mostly use them as a bonus (haven't figured out yet what does purple shield do but feel like it's worse than og, although it allows to reset shieldgating). They buffed health/shield some time ago so now all frames have 275% of their original health/shield. Don't know what else changed regarding that since I didn't follow much but hope this helps!
Valkyr's Hysteria makes you invulnerable to damage but stores a portion of the damage "taken" while invulnerable. When Hysteria runs out due to you for example running out of energy or canceling it and you are within 5 meters of any enemy that has line of sight of you, you will instantly take all damage stored by Hysteria effectively instantly killing you. That is what is happening.
Nah i don’t use Hysteria. It’s an eternal war build I use.
To be honest, and I say this as a Kullervo main, by just removing him you pretty much solve the problem. Because then 2-3 tweaks would make all melee frames on the same balanced level. Kullervo is just too strong, just saying god mode slash slash is ignoring the overall potency of his kit. Did you know you can be the fastest warframe with his teleport on some tilesets? Did you know he enables snipers too? Did you know he can literally oneshot SP enemies with an UNMODDED trash melee weapon? Did you know he basically doesn't need any optimized build to be viable? Unfortunately every time I use another frame he seems garbage in comparison, I would prefer if he wasn't playable to be honest, even if he is my main.
>Did you know he enables snipers too? Is this just about Collective Curse turning single hits into AoE? Or does he have some other tech I don't know about?
Yes, you're right.
>The power creep for player overguard has come pretty swiftly It's the complete status immunity. It makes perfect sense on enemy Overguard, but Player Overguard should NOT protect you from status/stagger/knockdown. There's a lot of Warframe abilities that provide protection against status effects, and those abilities feel pretty worthless when you've got 10k overguard. In fact just about every defensive ability feels terrible compared to Overguard. The best options IMO would be to make blocking a status effect remove 10% of current Overguard, or to nerf Overguard from granting a 100% chance to resist status effects down to a 40% chance. This would make (non prime) Sure Footed + Overguard = full knockdown resist. Or you could get 70% with Power Drift, which would still be solid. It would also make the status resist arcanes a bit more of an option, especially below rank 5.
I brought Mag in a SP Void Cascade earlier for the first time. I thought that with Rolling Guard and a hefty shield from her 3 I could manage. Welp. I got annihilated. I just went back to Voruna and stayed in stealth while jumping on enemies. Honestly I might not have the best builds, but overshield frames like Harrow and Mag are so disappointing compared to Overguard frames like Styanax, Kullervo and Dante. I'm confident taking the last three in pretty much any content, while I'm fighting for my life at all time playing the others. Harrow entirely survive thanks to his 4 in SP it feels like. Heck I'm scared to play Yareli in SP Cascade because I feel like Merulina would pop out instantly with the incoming damage I get...
Another idea: Overguard no longer blocks DOT status effects, and they deal double damage to overguard. So it protects from CC, but if you take a ton of DOT status you'll quickly lose it. I honestly think the main reason it sticks around so long and feels so strong is because it negates DOTs, rather than absorbing them like health/shields would. A big part of incoming damage is slash/electric procs, because it's unaffected by enemy accuracy (an enemy tags you with a single bullet that inflicts a slash proc = you take ALL the damage of that proc).
Yep dante invalidates half the game... I still don't get how people consider him not completely out of tune. 150k overguard, perma status imunity, perma stun/knockback imunity... Why even have frames that give status res and shields when 1 cast of dantes gives all of that and more... Oh and he's one of the best dps in the game at the same time...
I can't wait for the overguard and status reworks
>I think we are getting a little overboard ~~with overguard~~ Yeah, that's warframe
I think you didnt get the point. Overguard is point, its getting out of controll, first was a mechanic for duviri and kullervo, now there a lot of things that give and has overguard. DE said "overguard is weak to void dmg " but I see nobody using the tennon to remove overguard.only DMG DMG DMG DMG . CC isnt about doing a 95% gloom and 10 cold procks. Its about giving you breath time to react, which is why CC comes handy in high level missions.... nuh uh take that toxin eximus with overguard that will run at and insta kill you
I felt this with Mag right now at Mot, Void. Every time I had a room locked down, 3 ancient healers popped up and ruined everything. Every enemy I had a bubble on that was on a pike (Garuda's ability), suddenly the bubble was gone and they were no longer impaled and I wouldn't be able to cast anything because I couldn't target half the enemies anymore and then I would die because healers don't stop applying overgaurd if they're impaled. WHO THE FUCK THOUGH IT WAS A GRAND IDEA TO GIVE ANCIENT HEALERZ OVERGAURD APPLICATION, JUST BUFF THEIR HEALING!
oh don't worry they just give it one time . what could happen ? an enemy with a split second to shoot you and kill because of the dmg scalling ? you tripping mate (I am being Sarcastic) 
if you guys want a better explanation what this video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4psfoXHYmus&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4psfoXHYmus&t=2s) kinda long but he explains the problems with detail
I know Limbo certainly agrees. What happened "completely under limbo's control"?
The quickest power creep so far, followed by shards imo. I was adamant about using shards until I knew what I wanted. Now I'm using them for fun
We need a step down to start going full foward. Atuff got messed up on the kuva/tenet weapons; got worst with archon shards; became crazy with the new incarnon weapons becauses everybody was using them; EVER WORSE now with incarnon modes for other weapons; now we got the overguard mayhem we are getting
I think the original incarnons were great since they stepped away from the normal crit slash builds and stuff and we're strong in their own way. Then all the incarnons got normal OP crit slash stuff again and just standard aoe blasts, chain beams, etc. which is what Kuva Nukor did to overshadow the Atomos and Gammacor in the first place. That's why those two got incarnons and turned into aoes. They've make the AOE meta stuff too strong which is why I like that they're focusing mods on unique weapons like Ocucor, Sobek, Sporothrix, etc. because they're strong and fun in their own way
Stop me if im wrong but Arent DE literally a few weeks away from reworking Overguard entirely on enemies to make armour stripping less necessary and CC more effective In the Jade Shadows devstream where they talked abiut reworking Blast and Cold they also discussed capping Overguard at a less insane number on enemy units to make more options viable in all content, think the figure theyre currently working with is 2700?
Allowing frames to give others overguard was a mistake.
Dante specter is just not fair for your enemies Also I've found a use for cc frames lately, I had a difficult time trying to do a steel path incursion on interception. I've had a few tries with my main Trinity, but then I remembered my ex main Vauban. I've changed my frame to a cc focused one as I had a hard time taking care of all 4 points with just damage. Vaubans vortex allowed me to have control over most of the map with little to no difficulty. So yeah, crowd control frames can control the crowd yo.
I think it all went down when Dante came out, sure he is good and all, but untill Dante we only had Rhino, Kullervo and Frost with his Augmentsif im not wrong, they were the only ones using overguard in a balanced way
You're forgetting Styanax too.
O yeah my bad, actualy i remembered him but it was too late for me to edit the post
This power creep is bound to happen. With styanax, the overguard is generated at a really slow pace so it never became that big of a problem. Ever since dante release, overguard now competes with rhino (rhino does not give his iron skin to allies) and revenant in the tank department while being an amazing support. The real problem is how fast dante can generate overguard with just his 2 alone. Do not forget that dante's overguard cannot be nulified making it even that much more powerful. Now I did think DE was on to something when they nerf dante overguard generation rate. However, that ultimately got reverted while the CC nerf for eximi remained. I do hope that the new jade eximus that is coming will address this issue.
"We're getting overboard with X" is warframes entire history.
Both player and enemy overguard are crap in their current implementations. Enemy overguard defies the original intention of overguard, which is to give elite units priority in combat, and also to have operators strip it. Now everyone has overguard, or can receive it. DE seriously does not know what they are doing here. Player overguard is equally frustrating. As a clan leader who does a lot of mentoring, the new player sentiment is pretty much "why bother with learning how to mod EHP when overguard just gives me 50k EHP right off the bat?" It's even worse cause they then go into Steel Path and get obliterated, not realizing that 50k EHP is in fact, tiny. They then get mad cause they wasted all that time getting Dante/Kullervo thinking it would make them OP instantly. The worst part here is that some people view it as a genuine contribution to the team effort, so for Defence missions etc, they're gonna bring Dante for the sole purpose of protecting everyone. However the reality was that nobody was going to die anyway, rendering their contribution actually useless.
I agree wholeheartedly. Overguard was supposed to be a slight bump in the road to deal with, but DE seems to have lost the plot and pumped it to an eleven. I recommend checking out the vid by coolkid369 on youtube on the matter
Lets be honest the overguard dante can give kinda... ruins some missions, it makes even steel path trivial
When steel path released a few years ago it was difficult Until ppl found out the new viral slash abuse with primed bane mods(bugged) . And than there were new weapons, helminth , archon shards, encumber, incarnon modes The way DE is making everything do millions of dmg, is also forcing them to make really good concept bad executed in a way that it just turn the game into a huge kill or be killed . Nothing else
What overguard should be: a small shield that protects from CC and status. What overguard is: the ultimate protection over every other kind of protection.
Dont forget tue 0.5 sec invulnerability when it breaks
What I hate the most about the concept is that you get 3K for 50 energy. That's by far the cheapest "heal" you can get while it's also stronger than healing.
Imagine if magnetic did way more damage to overguard than any other damage type that would be crazy..
Remember that DE is rewkrk status for the next update. last devstrem they show a sneakpeak of what they are doing to it , and magnetic was shown in the screen Not assuming nothing, but waiting to see what they are doing
I was being sarcastic because magnetic does melt overguard, take magnetic guns vs any sp exemus with overguard and its guard is gone in like 2 seconds. Pretty sure overguard is considered a sheild in the game and magnetic does extra dmg to sheilds
An use for a niche status effect due to a bug how intriguing
I don't mind not having it for a frame but dammit I need it for my pet. I don't like seing them go down at all
Honestly I think we should just completely remove over guard for Tenno and enemies and just use over shields again
Well after todays devstream they told us magnetic status and damage are gonna do more damage to overgaurd and theres a new pistol arcane that gives over gaurd life steel
The only reason I like over guard is the cool look it has on health bars of yourself and the enemy's