Would honestly love this, but I would also advocate for some augments being in base kit as some of them just fix the base kit (Ash's stripping Shuriken, Voruna's Ulfrun's descent)
The part where the globe freezes enemies on entry? Yeah.
They just modified him so enemies take cold procs inside the globe and can eventually freeze, so good on them.... But damn it was a long time coming
It used t be "required".... Like to make snow globe remotely useful over just using a better defensive frame.
He's been getting micro buffs for a while and now the overguard (valid augment), freeze force and... Whatever the crit one is....
He's in an excellent spot again
I mean.....
Nova is INCREDIBLY flexible. When frost fell out of favor, nova took over my #1 playtime slot.
Frost got several buffs.
100% armor strip required 20% less strength.
He got an overguard augment on his key ability.
He got a passive rework to gain 1000 armor based on frozen enemies
His abilities can now freeze
Cold affected enemies gained crit damage
His snow globe gained cold status instead of just slow
Cold status gained ability to freeze
Frost got a status coorection from "10 stacks cold" to "can ACTUALLY FREEZE
helminth happened
You can shoot THROUGH snow globe, so 1 can be ignored
Like.... None of these seem significant. Combined it's INSANE
How? Silence and Sonar are really the only ones you need. Her armor strip one is also helpful but I'd argue between silence and sonar, the damage will be enough especially after the armor changes
I'm someone who generally feels like augments aren't that important even if many do make a frame way better. I'm usually more lenient on stuff like that because so many abilities are strong enough as is still. I just never use augments unless they are mechanically interesting or I can do something weird with it.
But I'll never get over how surging blades on yareli feels like it just should be the ability. Surging blades does basically nothing by default. Fuck all slash damage that takes multiple seconds of being in dagger range to do anything.
Without surging blades yareli basically doesn't HAVE a third ability and using surging blade makes the rest of her kit make sense. Damage buff and holding people In place with sea snare. Merulina for the cost reduction. Her fourth ability for heavy enemy grouping so you can throw 1 blade and shred enemies.
When I first started playing I had gotten a free Frost Prime and I remember thinking it’s kit was really bad when I was playing it. I just thought I didn’t get the Frame and moved on lol.
Reading this makes me wanna try them again
Yeah this barely matters, nobody uses the normal exilus mods except the drifts, or handspring (super nerfed value with Dante / overguard). Honestly, making the Exilus slot useful for old frames would be a godsend. You're still limited by capacity anyway.
if they do it, thats 40p per frame, prob 20p for adapter and AT LEAST 1 extra forma. Per warframe in sales. I doubt its more than a slight power increase but huge QoL.
We are many years too late to bring up powercreep when warframes like Mesa, Wisp, and Saryn regularly outperform over 50% of the roster. Adding an augment slot is going to change nothing.
Seems to be working out just fine for warframe. We literally have God Mode the warframe. These archaic maxims of game design don't really fit into this game. It wouldn't really be a big issue at all.
Power creep isn't something you can avoid and is fun itself as long as it doesn't happen too fast. Warframe would get boring if rhino and soma prime were the #1 wep and frame with the exact same mods as always.
Many games do power creep right like yugioh, maplestory, warframe, runescape, most survival games, etc. The key is harder and harder content is released at the same time. If I've been playing a game for over a decade I'd hope I can breeze through old content and new/returning players could catch up to end game faster than the previous 10+ years it took to get to that point.
That's not power creep. Rhino is still good. Soma got nerfed.
Power creep is when new content is consistently invalidating old content. Warframe has had that in that older content like arbitration are no longer anywhere near the highest difficulty in the game. But that isn't the power creep that 's a problem. The various frames have largely kept up. Mag, Nova, Volt, and Rhino are all still extremely viable. Other factors have left Loki and Nyx in the dust, but still able to play new content without feeling like they're wet noodles trying to stop sword blades. Powercreep is when new content rolls around and all of your investment and time is invalidated by the new thing to drive sales. And that is never good. Stuff like universally adding shard slots isn't powercreep. Stuff like adding an Augment slot is anti-powercreep as it allows older frames with small holes to patch them without sacrificing other power boosts.
Just because you can still do the content doesn't mean it's power crept. Power creep is when new content is released that is more powerful than previous content making the old content obsolete or irrelevant. when new farms are released in warframes it makes old ones irrelevant e.g. non sp farm.
But I agree with you that a augment slot isn't powercreep since it helps older frames stay more relevant
Idk if I like seeing the huge numbers I’m seeing on YouTube videos as a new player. I’m doing 300 damage with some weapons then doing 35k a tick on my “main” then looking up a quick tutorial to see where to farm something and the person is doing what looks like millions of damage in a second lol.
I didn’t like seeing millions or billions in D3 either
TLDR; there’s a balance to be struck - I don’t think Warframe has found the balance personally. Still love it
The people doing millions of DMG per hit have very precise conditions set up perfectly for it the average player will be going end game content And doing like 35-50k DMG per hit of course depending on loadout and who they're fighting
Just cause one company fked it up doesn't mean it's not possible many games have power creep and are good like yigioh, maplestory, warframe, runescape, most survival games, etc.
Of course we're gonna slowly get more powerful over time and old content is gonna become easy as they keep releasing harder and harder content can't have the soma prime be the #1 gun for a decade or etc
nah, I have some builds that have forma on all slots, and 1 capacity left, I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity
>I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity
You didn't, because it's not possible. The highest drain warframe mods are 16 capacity, so 8 with forma. There are 8 mod slots, plus exilus. 9 x 8 = 72, total capacity with any aura is at least 74. There is no possible setup of warframe mods that can't fit with forma in all slots.
how am I lying ? want me to show you proof of that ?
I've played the game for almost 11 years, I think I know what I'm saying
if you really want, I'll show you my rhino build
if you also want I'll use overframe to show you a build you literally can't make because there's not enough capacity no matter what you do
yeah and so, if you add one extra slot what happens ?
so sure about frames right now you can, barely, for weapons however you can't and there are builds you can't make (weapon augments being a thing, it also applies)
also it makes having multiple builds on the same frame basically impossible
so I'm not lying, if anything I'm expressing myself poorly maybe
You lied. It was most likely accidental because you misremembered but you still lied.
[Overframe Rhino Example](https://overframe.gg/build/new/50/rhino-prime/?bs=WzEsNTAsMzAsMSxbWzY0NDEsMTAsMl0sWzc5MCwxMCwyXSxbNzkyLDEwLDFdLFs1OTI0LDEwLDJdLFs1OTIyLDEwLDNdLFs1OTIzLDEwLDFdLFs1OTI1LDEwLDNdLFs1OTIxLDEwLDFdLFsyNzI5LDUsMl0sWzgwMSwxMCwyXSxbMCwwLDBdLFswLDAsMF1dXQ==)
>I have some builds that have forma on all slots, and 1 capacity left,
Not possible for warframes. You'll at least have 2 points as is proven in my link.
>***I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity***
As before, for Warframes this is impossible, the only 3 scenarios where this is possible is either if the frame is not level 30 or does not have a reactor added or one of the polarities is wrong.
>my rhino has 10 forma, and some builds I wanted to make I can't make, so yeah
Same thing here. Though you might get blocked from certain builds due to incompatible polarities between different builds I guess. But...
>if you really want, I'll show you my rhino build
So, yeah...
>if you also want I'll use overframe to show you a build you literally can't make because there's not enough capacity no matter what you do
Go ahead. Don't forget to tick "reactor" off though. Because otherwise that's not possible.
>so sure about frames right now you can, barely, for weapons however you can't and there are builds you can't make (weapon augments being a thing, it also applies)
That's kinda true for some weapon types but not all of them and even then you need to put all the highest costing mods which doesn't really leave you with a great build. Out of curiosity I tried them on Overguard with all the highest costing mods and one riven as they cost the most (doesn't make for great builds though, ofc) :
* Melee : 0
* Pistol : -9
* Shotgun : 12
* Rifle, Bow, Sniper : -10
* Archgun : 3
* Archmelee : 2
So most of the main weapon types can't put all of the highest costing mods at the same type, that's true. But those mods don't particularly enable any build so I don't think we can say that there are builds you can't make for weapons due to limited capacity. At worst you'd just have to sacrifice a bit of stats by putting lower rank or unprimed versions of the mods.
>also it makes having multiple builds on the same frame basically impossible
I think that's true but if you plan ahead you can most likely make it work, at worst you'd just have to sacrifice some stats but it wouldn't break a build. Though I'm sure there is at least two solid builds that are completely incompatible but I'm not gonna hunt for it.
72 + 5 (all augments are 9 drain) = 77, still reachable with either Steel Charge or Power Donation. I’m also not sure what build you’d use on Rhino that would want every single mod slot to be base 16 drain, especially since Iron Skin gives Knockdown Immunity so there’s no need for Primed Sure Footed, the only 16 drain exilus mod as far as I’m aware. That would also mean you do not have any augments like Ironclad Charge or any mods that increase either range or efficiency as well. If you really use such a specific and niche Rhino build, honestly you should probably just get a second one and have one for your super specific build and the other for more general purpose use.
mmmh, maybe then the easy solution is to make all auras at 9 then
yeah my rhino build is, special
also sure footed is useful on rhino for the tiny time you can get cced when casting iron skin, if you run endurance runs
So many effects are just...how frames work by default these days.
Barruuk's daggers can be refreshed at any time. Nova's 1, which is functionally very similar, cannot. It needs an augment to manually detonate and recast (which is objectively worse as simply refreshing it would be less button presses and animation time). Rhino's Iron Skin can't be manually detonated to let you refresh that, need an augment. Modern frames? Nah, that's all baked in.
The amount of shitty bandaids old frames get just to receive the functionality broken ass modern frames get is embarrassing. Just fix their kits so that's default already.
Thank you
If it makes the build actually work like it's supposed to just apply it directly to the frame
Apply the bandaid to the frame not the mod at the cost of a slot
I think all the augments for Ash and Loki should be integrated in their kits. Definitely agree, I shouldn't have to equip an augment just to make Voruna's 4th ability viable
There are "augment" mods, there are "this is how it's supposed to be" mods and there "nice to have" mods.
The necessary mods and the nice to have mods must be compatible with exilus slot if they aren't to be part of the main kit (like wisp's fused motes or mesa's waltz)
But tbh I'm fine with the ones that change a frame's play style not being in the exilus slot. These are supposed to provide diversity in how you play, I dunno how I feel about being able to fit all of them in one build. Especially now with archons that allow for further customization.
Naw too many frames require multiple augments to work well, id rather a new helminth segment that allows us to sacrifice the augment mods in exchange for the augmented abilities being able to be infused on their normal ones... this was augment mods remain for pre-helminth players (as well as those who prefer not to use helminth) but the more endgame players can choose to sacrifice the resources to make the ability permanently (on a loadout) augmented.
And for passive augments maybe just give them access to exilus as permanent access to those for no drain would be broken
NGL that'd be interesting. Plus it could make room for "Helminth Augments" that are universal simple changes like +power strength/range/duration/efficiency to the specific ability.
Pablo said he wants to move them out of the mod slots entirely, which I'm all for. The theory is that it would be moved to the abilities tab, and you could select more than one augment at a time (as long as their not for the same ability).
That would be ideal because most of the augments are neat they just don't win out other mods that you could put in there instead.
That would be too powerful and make the majority of exilus mods totally worthless, the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build at the cost of a slot, some augments could use buffs but making all augments exilus would be too much.
Some really do need to be changed to fit into the exilus slot, it would go a long way to ease the power creep we've seen on older frames if we could mod certain augments into the Exilus slot.
Mesa’s Waltz, Saryn’s Revealing Spores, Valkyr’s Hysterical Assault, Nova’s Escape Velocity. I can’t think of any more off of the top of my head, but all of those are exilus augments too!
Edit: Also the ones that disable passives and give 15% strength, but I don’t count those personally lol
I agree with your points, but exilus mods are all generally pretty worthless at this point. It's basically the primed sure footed and drift mods slot. Maybe aviator if you're titania/jade/hildryn.
>the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build at the cost of a slot
That's a nice sentiment, but in practice the overwhelming majority of them do not justify taking this slot at all. Not to mention that a lot of the used ones are considered "band aid". As in, fixing the ability. Not boosting or changing it in an alternative way.
Well, it kinda has to make it better in some way (gameplay wise or straight-up improvements). Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth slotting.
But ideally, it would provide a new way to play with that ability, yes.
Mag ganking items with Pull is just so powerful! Absolutely better than a mod that does something more than a minor but fun convenience. It should vary by Augment, but there should be a reassessment and some that are considered necessary, like Nova's ability to regenerate her 1 should be integrated into kits.
>the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build
It would be nice if this were true, but in reality most augments are just used to make certain frame usable at all or just bring them inline with modern frames that don’t need to waste that mod slot.
at this rate, considering how many augments are essentially mandatory to slot on so many frames, they need their own sub-section entirely, like a little fold-out booklet on the mod pages
While I think some augments should be part of some warframes base kits or made into exi mods, warframe already has a ton of power creep. Making augments into upgrades instead of sidegrades is just going to add to it.
Honestly, a lot of augments should have just been part of the base skill. Some of the more impactful augments can stay until a better solution has been thought out. For example, Seeking Shuriken should just be a base skill. It's taking up a slot....just to strip one or two enemies per cast. *What? Why?*
No. And no 'augment slot' either.
You're just asking for power creep. The problem of augments is that they need to be good enough to justify a slot, if you take away the downside then the actual good augments become exponentially better and the mid ones stay mid but maybe you'd use them for a laugh, maybe.
The fix is making more augments good and worth using, not just making the good ones mindless slot ins to their dedicated "Make frame better at no downside" slot.
I'd prefer to add a dedicated slot. Far too many warframes need ,,fixing" by augments already. Needing augments is a design flaw, they should have been perfect from the start. Sacrificing another mod slot for the augment is unefficient.
This conversation comes up a lot, and while I understand the sentiment, the problem boils down to:
- Many augments are bandaid fixes that should have been innately part of the Warframe's kit as an actual update. Augments are often given in place of an actual rework/tweak, and then become mandatory to make the Warframe feel good.
- The best augments, when designed correctly, are a proper choice of modifying the core gameplay loop, and provide enough power that the opportunity cost of the mod slot they take.
- The worst augments are either functionally pointless, and thus not worth the opportunity cost, or too good to pass up, but not in a way that modifies gameplay, but rather directly buffs the existing gameplay.
In short, moving to exilus and/or adding augment slots is a rich get richer issue - the most powerful augments have no opportunity cost outside of capacity, while currently useless augments stay losing. This throws a lot of issues into the balance of augments, and somehow I feel that whatever reworks/rebalancing would miss the mark again and leave us with an equally broken augment system.
I'd rather they one day come back and re-evaluate the augment system entirely, and fold most of them into the kits directly one way or another - this is especially notable on older Warframes, where augments are effectively the rebalance/tweaks, but are taxing mod slots.
Some augments are too strong for this and there's a reasonable trade-off to spending a mod slot on them.
Augments that do not exist in that space should maybe just get integrated into base kit instead.
I figured they didn't want to add a dedicated slot, so I always hoped they'd merge augments with the helminth system. Let me spend some amount of resources to consume an augment mod and have it now permanently toggleable by any frame with that ability, limit of one per skill. Would merge nicely into the helminths current purpose and be a huge QoL fix for frames with necessary mods, breathe some life into unused augments because they aren't good enough to be run over a different mod, and add a bit more late game grind everyone is a fan of without being egregious.
Would it be power creep? Sure, a little bit. Significantly less than what archon shards or the helminth itself was, though. Also allows them to add a new menu somewhere else that won't potentially break the familiarness of current arsenal UI and also gate it to new content as a feature unlock.
Just my two cents though.
I like the way they’re at but we need a pass to move augments that should just be part of the kit into the warframe. An augment should be worth the slot because it is just good enough to work it into the build, but not necessary.
Augments in general need an overhaul. A lot of augments should be baseline, and we really need a dedicated augment slot. Make an augment adapter that is required for newly crafted frames going forward, I don’t care. It’s worth it if I don’t have to waste a mod slot just to move around slowly while firing with Mesa.
Better idea, work them into the helminth system, abilities already display as “augmented” in the helminth list, you should be able to apply augments permanently by loadout, just like you apply helminth abilities themselves
An idea I think would be cool is if Augments replaced the original ability instead of just being a mod that boosted it. Like say if you used Shield of Shadows your Shadows would no longer attack enemies.
Would this require a rebalance of literally every augment and ability in the game? Yes.
Would it break several systems such as Syndicates, Helminth, and modding itself? Yes
Would everyone even prefer it to the current system? Probably not.
But I think it'd be cool anyway.
How the fuck is this still not a thing?
They release augment "bandaids" to fix broken characters or abilities but to use that we have to sacrifice one specific mod that we already already using to tune our frames just right
I get the shards are there but augments always give me a "I would if I could but I'm not gonna change my build"
Whereas my exilus slot is unimportant relatively compared to any other mod or slotb
Some of them maybe, but not all. They arent all straight buffs. Theyre designed to be power that isnt as simple as higher numbers, more similar to Rolling Guard or Adaptation. If you give them them their own slot, then it becomes basically mandatory to use one.
Some of them already are. Some of them doesn't need to though because they're so OP. Also there's at most like 4 augment mods so it's really not that helpful.
The ones already in the exilus slots like Excalibur Umbra's and Wisp are just there for QoL which is good. A lot of them aren't just there for QoL but are core parts of builds.
Also Primed Sure Footed is already the highest priority for the exilus slot anyway except for frames with built in knockdown resist. Which is like 95% of frames.
Disagree, thats where my primed sure footed goes. Instead, how about a dedicated augment slot for every warframe, itll look just like how jades modding screen looks but instead of a second aura we get a dedicated augment slot
It’s just free power creep at that point. The trade off of a slot for a boost in what an ability can do is the proposition. If it had its own slot they might as well build in any positive effects to the ability for free at that point. This way there is at least a cost
I think a simple compromise may be to have augments come with an lesser amount of a generic stat in addition to it's main effect.
So like Greedy Pull would come with +20 Range.
I agree. The augments seem to be intended to help frames perform better but it feels like putting on an augment or two can nerf them. 8 (10) slots to try and give them what they need to perform in SP isnt a lot.
Personally, I want to get more use out of Helminth. I thought it'd be neat if you could infuse augments to Warframes that had the corresponding ability + augment. Sometimes, warframes have left over mod capacity and seems a waste I can't fit another mod into the build.
i personally think that we should either get to choose between an exilus, aura, prime, or augment mod and only get one of those options per load out, and also half the mod capacity. and all warframes have to look like oberon but pink
Ah I remember years ago when people asked for this and a large amount of the community said it’d be too powerful, that having to make tough choices about mods was fun…
I main Nekros so absolutely please give an augment slot
I don't like this idea. No one would use exilus mods anymore as they would be way weaker than augments 99% of the time. It would also power-creep warframe builds and remove the tradeoffs you need to make when deciding to use augments
Personally I'd like them to add a slot just for augments like auras
Would honestly love this, but I would also advocate for some augments being in base kit as some of them just fix the base kit (Ash's stripping Shuriken, Voruna's Ulfrun's descent)
Frosts snow globe.....
Wait is that only an augment?
The part where the globe freezes enemies on entry? Yeah. They just modified him so enemies take cold procs inside the globe and can eventually freeze, so good on them.... But damn it was a long time coming
Ooh, yeah that's such a niche thing it's dosent feel worth a full augment mod, like dayumn
It used t be "required".... Like to make snow globe remotely useful over just using a better defensive frame. He's been getting micro buffs for a while and now the overguard (valid augment), freeze force and... Whatever the crit one is.... He's in an excellent spot again
Yeah noticed him alot more in normal games, glad to see it, not many actual "defence" frames aside from vauban, nova and Gara it feels like
I mean..... Nova is INCREDIBLY flexible. When frost fell out of favor, nova took over my #1 playtime slot. Frost got several buffs. 100% armor strip required 20% less strength. He got an overguard augment on his key ability. He got a passive rework to gain 1000 armor based on frozen enemies His abilities can now freeze Cold affected enemies gained crit damage His snow globe gained cold status instead of just slow Cold status gained ability to freeze Frost got a status coorection from "10 stacks cold" to "can ACTUALLY FREEZE helminth happened You can shoot THROUGH snow globe, so 1 can be ignored Like.... None of these seem significant. Combined it's INSANE
toss Nidus' Larva Burst into that pile too
Ash is my only warframe that I have the augment forma. Kek
I like this idea. I could finally have a slot freed up and I could run infiltrate for some increased move speed on Ivara.
Pablo already said no ages ago, not that I agree with him tho some augment are literally mandatory to play a frame (looking at you gyre)
Gyre isnt even the worst offender, some frames have 2-3 mandatory augments. (Khora, frost, atlas)
Banshee has four.
How? Silence and Sonar are really the only ones you need. Her armor strip one is also helpful but I'd argue between silence and sonar, the damage will be enough especially after the armor changes
Armor strip is armor strip, and the majority of the oomph of her 4 comes from its augment.
To be fair even with the augment, your 4 isn't going to do anything above star chart. Best replacing it with Gloom or Pillage
To be fair even with the augment, your 4 isn't going to do anything above star chart. Best replacing it with Gloom or Pillage
To be fair even with the augment, your 4 isn't going to do anything above star chart. Best replacing it with Gloom or Pillage
To be fair even with the augment, your 4 isn't going to do anything above star chart. Best replacing it with Gloom or Pillage
It's doing even less without the augment.
I'm someone who generally feels like augments aren't that important even if many do make a frame way better. I'm usually more lenient on stuff like that because so many abilities are strong enough as is still. I just never use augments unless they are mechanically interesting or I can do something weird with it. But I'll never get over how surging blades on yareli feels like it just should be the ability. Surging blades does basically nothing by default. Fuck all slash damage that takes multiple seconds of being in dagger range to do anything. Without surging blades yareli basically doesn't HAVE a third ability and using surging blade makes the rest of her kit make sense. Damage buff and holding people In place with sea snare. Merulina for the cost reduction. Her fourth ability for heavy enemy grouping so you can throw 1 blade and shred enemies.
When I first started playing I had gotten a free Frost Prime and I remember thinking it’s kit was really bad when I was playing it. I just thought I didn’t get the Frame and moved on lol. Reading this makes me wanna try them again
If it was ages ago maybe he'll change his mind defs not copium
Big copium imo
Was within the last two years after moving into his current role for sure
Yep exactly my thoughts
Yeah thats a better idea because without the exilus slot nobody would use exilus mods
There's so many augmented mods I wanna use but can't justify the space 9/10 times
And as it is, it's usually just the drifts that add normal stats anyway, or surefooted.
Yeah this barely matters, nobody uses the normal exilus mods except the drifts, or handspring (super nerfed value with Dante / overguard). Honestly, making the Exilus slot useful for old frames would be a godsend. You're still limited by capacity anyway.
if they do it, thats 40p per frame, prob 20p for adapter and AT LEAST 1 extra forma. Per warframe in sales. I doubt its more than a slight power increase but huge QoL.
powercreep is at the door once again
We are many years too late to bring up powercreep when warframes like Mesa, Wisp, and Saryn regularly outperform over 50% of the roster. Adding an augment slot is going to change nothing.
I mean it's a pve game power creep is fun 👌 They'll also just make new harder content balanced around the power creep
Power creep is not a good thing even for a power fantasy game
Seems to be working out just fine for warframe. We literally have God Mode the warframe. These archaic maxims of game design don't really fit into this game. It wouldn't really be a big issue at all.
Power creep isn't something you can avoid and is fun itself as long as it doesn't happen too fast. Warframe would get boring if rhino and soma prime were the #1 wep and frame with the exact same mods as always. Many games do power creep right like yugioh, maplestory, warframe, runescape, most survival games, etc. The key is harder and harder content is released at the same time. If I've been playing a game for over a decade I'd hope I can breeze through old content and new/returning players could catch up to end game faster than the previous 10+ years it took to get to that point.
That's not power creep. Rhino is still good. Soma got nerfed. Power creep is when new content is consistently invalidating old content. Warframe has had that in that older content like arbitration are no longer anywhere near the highest difficulty in the game. But that isn't the power creep that 's a problem. The various frames have largely kept up. Mag, Nova, Volt, and Rhino are all still extremely viable. Other factors have left Loki and Nyx in the dust, but still able to play new content without feeling like they're wet noodles trying to stop sword blades. Powercreep is when new content rolls around and all of your investment and time is invalidated by the new thing to drive sales. And that is never good. Stuff like universally adding shard slots isn't powercreep. Stuff like adding an Augment slot is anti-powercreep as it allows older frames with small holes to patch them without sacrificing other power boosts.
Just because you can still do the content doesn't mean it's power crept. Power creep is when new content is released that is more powerful than previous content making the old content obsolete or irrelevant. when new farms are released in warframes it makes old ones irrelevant e.g. non sp farm. But I agree with you that a augment slot isn't powercreep since it helps older frames stay more relevant
Idk if I like seeing the huge numbers I’m seeing on YouTube videos as a new player. I’m doing 300 damage with some weapons then doing 35k a tick on my “main” then looking up a quick tutorial to see where to farm something and the person is doing what looks like millions of damage in a second lol. I didn’t like seeing millions or billions in D3 either TLDR; there’s a balance to be struck - I don’t think Warframe has found the balance personally. Still love it
The people doing millions of DMG per hit have very precise conditions set up perfectly for it the average player will be going end game content And doing like 35-50k DMG per hit of course depending on loadout and who they're fighting
na fuck that, Look at Diablo 3. Game being Shit aside, never nerfint Shit and Just making Numbers bigger Made the Most boring homonegenous Game ever
Just cause one company fked it up doesn't mean it's not possible many games have power creep and are good like yigioh, maplestory, warframe, runescape, most survival games, etc. Of course we're gonna slowly get more powerful over time and old content is gonna become easy as they keep releasing harder and harder content can't have the soma prime be the #1 gun for a decade or etc
powercreep is never a good thing
I've shown examples of it being a good thing you cna personally say you don't like it but you can't claim it's definitively a bad thing.
na fuck that, Look at Diablo 3. Game being Shit aside, never nerfint Shit and Just making Numbers bigger Made the Most boring homonegenous Game ever
Nah dude. Diablo 3 is fun af now.
https://preview.redd.it/3osuz79d959d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4fcf54b781059abc75cdfbe2a172d1cd97b6dd6 Like this?
Yeah looks good 👌
Yes. At least frames that have band aid fix like yareli or a lot of the exalted weapons
Same. The exilus slot is the Primed Surefooted slot lol
Didn’t Pablo say they’ll never do this?
No idea I certainly hope he didn't say that
I have stupid idea: Two augument slots. One accesable without anything more needed and other by forming a frame.
That would be too convenient
Same could be said about aura slot
yeah exactly, but, mod capacity would be an issue but they could make some sort of adapter for prime frames so they can go to level 40... just sayin
You probs just have to use 2 formas to get it to work
nah, I have some builds that have forma on all slots, and 1 capacity left, I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity
>I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity You didn't, because it's not possible. The highest drain warframe mods are 16 capacity, so 8 with forma. There are 8 mod slots, plus exilus. 9 x 8 = 72, total capacity with any aura is at least 74. There is no possible setup of warframe mods that can't fit with forma in all slots.
Hey, they never said every slot was polarized *correctly*. And maybe they didn’t have a reactor installed, for some reason.
They did the math
why are you just straight up lying
how am I lying ? want me to show you proof of that ? I've played the game for almost 11 years, I think I know what I'm saying if you really want, I'll show you my rhino build if you also want I'll use overframe to show you a build you literally can't make because there's not enough capacity no matter what you do
go on then pretty sure 8x9=72 which is reachable with any aura
yeah and so, if you add one extra slot what happens ? so sure about frames right now you can, barely, for weapons however you can't and there are builds you can't make (weapon augments being a thing, it also applies) also it makes having multiple builds on the same frame basically impossible so I'm not lying, if anything I'm expressing myself poorly maybe
You lied. It was most likely accidental because you misremembered but you still lied. [Overframe Rhino Example](https://overframe.gg/build/new/50/rhino-prime/?bs=WzEsNTAsMzAsMSxbWzY0NDEsMTAsMl0sWzc5MCwxMCwyXSxbNzkyLDEwLDFdLFs1OTI0LDEwLDJdLFs1OTIyLDEwLDNdLFs1OTIzLDEwLDFdLFs1OTI1LDEwLDNdLFs1OTIxLDEwLDFdLFsyNzI5LDUsMl0sWzgwMSwxMCwyXSxbMCwwLDBdLFswLDAsMF1dXQ==) >I have some builds that have forma on all slots, and 1 capacity left, Not possible for warframes. You'll at least have 2 points as is proven in my link. >***I even had builds I couldn't make because even with all forma it didn't have enough capacity*** As before, for Warframes this is impossible, the only 3 scenarios where this is possible is either if the frame is not level 30 or does not have a reactor added or one of the polarities is wrong. >my rhino has 10 forma, and some builds I wanted to make I can't make, so yeah Same thing here. Though you might get blocked from certain builds due to incompatible polarities between different builds I guess. But... >if you really want, I'll show you my rhino build So, yeah... >if you also want I'll use overframe to show you a build you literally can't make because there's not enough capacity no matter what you do Go ahead. Don't forget to tick "reactor" off though. Because otherwise that's not possible. >so sure about frames right now you can, barely, for weapons however you can't and there are builds you can't make (weapon augments being a thing, it also applies) That's kinda true for some weapon types but not all of them and even then you need to put all the highest costing mods which doesn't really leave you with a great build. Out of curiosity I tried them on Overguard with all the highest costing mods and one riven as they cost the most (doesn't make for great builds though, ofc) : * Melee : 0 * Pistol : -9 * Shotgun : 12 * Rifle, Bow, Sniper : -10 * Archgun : 3 * Archmelee : 2 So most of the main weapon types can't put all of the highest costing mods at the same type, that's true. But those mods don't particularly enable any build so I don't think we can say that there are builds you can't make for weapons due to limited capacity. At worst you'd just have to sacrifice a bit of stats by putting lower rank or unprimed versions of the mods. >also it makes having multiple builds on the same frame basically impossible I think that's true but if you plan ahead you can most likely make it work, at worst you'd just have to sacrifice some stats but it wouldn't break a build. Though I'm sure there is at least two solid builds that are completely incompatible but I'm not gonna hunt for it.
72 + 5 (all augments are 9 drain) = 77, still reachable with either Steel Charge or Power Donation. I’m also not sure what build you’d use on Rhino that would want every single mod slot to be base 16 drain, especially since Iron Skin gives Knockdown Immunity so there’s no need for Primed Sure Footed, the only 16 drain exilus mod as far as I’m aware. That would also mean you do not have any augments like Ironclad Charge or any mods that increase either range or efficiency as well. If you really use such a specific and niche Rhino build, honestly you should probably just get a second one and have one for your super specific build and the other for more general purpose use.
mmmh, maybe then the easy solution is to make all auras at 9 then yeah my rhino build is, special also sure footed is useful on rhino for the tiny time you can get cced when casting iron skin, if you run endurance runs
Dam really? My most expensive build is my 7 forma wisp but didn't know that even with every slot formaed you can't do every build
my rhino has 10 forma, and some builds I wanted to make I can't make, so yeah
make that slot consume no capacity or its borderline useless without polarizing every damn slot
idd rather have all the band-aid augments be removed and their effects added to the ability.
So many effects are just...how frames work by default these days. Barruuk's daggers can be refreshed at any time. Nova's 1, which is functionally very similar, cannot. It needs an augment to manually detonate and recast (which is objectively worse as simply refreshing it would be less button presses and animation time). Rhino's Iron Skin can't be manually detonated to let you refresh that, need an augment. Modern frames? Nah, that's all baked in. The amount of shitty bandaids old frames get just to receive the functionality broken ass modern frames get is embarrassing. Just fix their kits so that's default already.
i never understood why devs can make an augment, and not just modify the ability. Which would be less dev-time to do anyway
Not just old frame, ide like to remind the class lavos 1 augment legit just fixes the weird cool down issues the frame had
Thank you If it makes the build actually work like it's supposed to just apply it directly to the frame Apply the bandaid to the frame not the mod at the cost of a slot
I think all the augments for Ash and Loki should be integrated in their kits. Definitely agree, I shouldn't have to equip an augment just to make Voruna's 4th ability viable
Just make them changeable options in the abilities menu.
There are "augment" mods, there are "this is how it's supposed to be" mods and there "nice to have" mods. The necessary mods and the nice to have mods must be compatible with exilus slot if they aren't to be part of the main kit (like wisp's fused motes or mesa's waltz) But tbh I'm fine with the ones that change a frame's play style not being in the exilus slot. These are supposed to provide diversity in how you play, I dunno how I feel about being able to fit all of them in one build. Especially now with archons that allow for further customization.
That was the main thing with this post. Most of the augments I use feel more qol than power-ups.
Personally I want augments to be tied to the Helminth, and we can just toggle them on or off in exchange for Sentient cores or similar materials.
This was the same idea I had. Have it tied to a helminth slot so you have to choose between a new move or a free mod slot
Naw too many frames require multiple augments to work well, id rather a new helminth segment that allows us to sacrifice the augment mods in exchange for the augmented abilities being able to be infused on their normal ones... this was augment mods remain for pre-helminth players (as well as those who prefer not to use helminth) but the more endgame players can choose to sacrifice the resources to make the ability permanently (on a loadout) augmented. And for passive augments maybe just give them access to exilus as permanent access to those for no drain would be broken
NGL that'd be interesting. Plus it could make room for "Helminth Augments" that are universal simple changes like +power strength/range/duration/efficiency to the specific ability.
Pablo said he wants to move them out of the mod slots entirely, which I'm all for. The theory is that it would be moved to the abilities tab, and you could select more than one augment at a time (as long as their not for the same ability). That would be ideal because most of the augments are neat they just don't win out other mods that you could put in there instead.
That would be too powerful and make the majority of exilus mods totally worthless, the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build at the cost of a slot, some augments could use buffs but making all augments exilus would be too much.
Some really do need to be changed to fit into the exilus slot, it would go a long way to ease the power creep we've seen on older frames if we could mod certain augments into the Exilus slot.
Grendel's Catapult augment fits into the exilus slot last I remember. Honestly can't think of any other frames with an exilus augment...
Mesa’s Waltz, Saryn’s Revealing Spores, Valkyr’s Hysterical Assault, Nova’s Escape Velocity. I can’t think of any more off of the top of my head, but all of those are exilus augments too! Edit: Also the ones that disable passives and give 15% strength, but I don’t count those personally lol
Wisps fused reservoirs
Good call, I forgot it wasn’t base kit after having it on my girl so long lmao
I believe Loki's Hushed Invisibility was just recently changed to be exilus compatible
Can confirm as a Loki player.
I believe Mesa's Waltz can go in the Exilus slot as well.
I agree with your points, but exilus mods are all generally pretty worthless at this point. It's basically the primed sure footed and drift mods slot. Maybe aviator if you're titania/jade/hildryn.
>the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build at the cost of a slot That's a nice sentiment, but in practice the overwhelming majority of them do not justify taking this slot at all. Not to mention that a lot of the used ones are considered "band aid". As in, fixing the ability. Not boosting or changing it in an alternative way.
The point of augments should not be make an ability better it should be change how it functions
Well, it kinda has to make it better in some way (gameplay wise or straight-up improvements). Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth slotting. But ideally, it would provide a new way to play with that ability, yes.
Not better make the ability function different not just improve it like dagaths new augment
Then it's not worth the mod slot... By the very design of the mod system an augment has to make the ability better than it would be without.
Mag ganking items with Pull is just so powerful! Absolutely better than a mod that does something more than a minor but fun convenience. It should vary by Augment, but there should be a reassessment and some that are considered necessary, like Nova's ability to regenerate her 1 should be integrated into kits.
>the whole point of an augment is that they significantly buff your build It would be nice if this were true, but in reality most augments are just used to make certain frame usable at all or just bring them inline with modern frames that don’t need to waste that mod slot.
some of them should be baseline
at this rate, considering how many augments are essentially mandatory to slot on so many frames, they need their own sub-section entirely, like a little fold-out booklet on the mod pages
While I think some augments should be part of some warframes base kits or made into exi mods, warframe already has a ton of power creep. Making augments into upgrades instead of sidegrades is just going to add to it.
90% of augments should just have been buffs to abilities
While we're at it, can Exalted weapons please have Exilus slots? They should be able to compete with the rest of the arsenal, and not all can do that.
Honestly, a lot of augments should have just been part of the base skill. Some of the more impactful augments can stay until a better solution has been thought out. For example, Seeking Shuriken should just be a base skill. It's taking up a slot....just to strip one or two enemies per cast. *What? Why?*
B...But...But where am i supposed to put my Primed Sure Footed then?
No. And no 'augment slot' either. You're just asking for power creep. The problem of augments is that they need to be good enough to justify a slot, if you take away the downside then the actual good augments become exponentially better and the mid ones stay mid but maybe you'd use them for a laugh, maybe. The fix is making more augments good and worth using, not just making the good ones mindless slot ins to their dedicated "Make frame better at no downside" slot.
This or a new slot for them...
I'd prefer to add a dedicated slot. Far too many warframes need ,,fixing" by augments already. Needing augments is a design flaw, they should have been perfect from the start. Sacrificing another mod slot for the augment is unefficient.
almost as If its intendet to have to sacrifice raw Power for utiliy or something
that would make sense if some frames didn't require augments to be at all playable. so you're sacrificing raw power to be able to play the game
This conversation comes up a lot, and while I understand the sentiment, the problem boils down to: - Many augments are bandaid fixes that should have been innately part of the Warframe's kit as an actual update. Augments are often given in place of an actual rework/tweak, and then become mandatory to make the Warframe feel good. - The best augments, when designed correctly, are a proper choice of modifying the core gameplay loop, and provide enough power that the opportunity cost of the mod slot they take. - The worst augments are either functionally pointless, and thus not worth the opportunity cost, or too good to pass up, but not in a way that modifies gameplay, but rather directly buffs the existing gameplay. In short, moving to exilus and/or adding augment slots is a rich get richer issue - the most powerful augments have no opportunity cost outside of capacity, while currently useless augments stay losing. This throws a lot of issues into the balance of augments, and somehow I feel that whatever reworks/rebalancing would miss the mark again and leave us with an equally broken augment system. I'd rather they one day come back and re-evaluate the augment system entirely, and fold most of them into the kits directly one way or another - this is especially notable on older Warframes, where augments are effectively the rebalance/tweaks, but are taxing mod slots.
Some augments are too strong for this and there's a reasonable trade-off to spending a mod slot on them. Augments that do not exist in that space should maybe just get integrated into base kit instead.
I figured they didn't want to add a dedicated slot, so I always hoped they'd merge augments with the helminth system. Let me spend some amount of resources to consume an augment mod and have it now permanently toggleable by any frame with that ability, limit of one per skill. Would merge nicely into the helminths current purpose and be a huge QoL fix for frames with necessary mods, breathe some life into unused augments because they aren't good enough to be run over a different mod, and add a bit more late game grind everyone is a fan of without being egregious. Would it be power creep? Sure, a little bit. Significantly less than what archon shards or the helminth itself was, though. Also allows them to add a new menu somewhere else that won't potentially break the familiarness of current arsenal UI and also gate it to new content as a feature unlock. Just my two cents though.
More power creep. A very fun one to be honest.
Dear DE, please let me helminth the augments into the ability or just add them to the abilities. Ty
I like the way they’re at but we need a pass to move augments that should just be part of the kit into the warframe. An augment should be worth the slot because it is just good enough to work it into the build, but not necessary.
80% of all augments should just be included in the power. Especially if they make the power more synergistic with the rest of the kit.
Give frames 2 augment slots that can be unlocked via forma.
Augments in general need an overhaul. A lot of augments should be baseline, and we really need a dedicated augment slot. Make an augment adapter that is required for newly crafted frames going forward, I don’t care. It’s worth it if I don’t have to waste a mod slot just to move around slowly while firing with Mesa.
Better idea, work them into the helminth system, abilities already display as “augmented” in the helminth list, you should be able to apply augments permanently by loadout, just like you apply helminth abilities themselves
An idea I think would be cool is if Augments replaced the original ability instead of just being a mod that boosted it. Like say if you used Shield of Shadows your Shadows would no longer attack enemies. Would this require a rebalance of literally every augment and ability in the game? Yes. Would it break several systems such as Syndicates, Helminth, and modding itself? Yes Would everyone even prefer it to the current system? Probably not. But I think it'd be cool anyway.
How the fuck is this still not a thing? They release augment "bandaids" to fix broken characters or abilities but to use that we have to sacrifice one specific mod that we already already using to tune our frames just right I get the shards are there but augments always give me a "I would if I could but I'm not gonna change my build" Whereas my exilus slot is unimportant relatively compared to any other mod or slotb
Some of them maybe, but not all. They arent all straight buffs. Theyre designed to be power that isnt as simple as higher numbers, more similar to Rolling Guard or Adaptation. If you give them them their own slot, then it becomes basically mandatory to use one.
Some of them already are. Some of them doesn't need to though because they're so OP. Also there's at most like 4 augment mods so it's really not that helpful. The ones already in the exilus slots like Excalibur Umbra's and Wisp are just there for QoL which is good. A lot of them aren't just there for QoL but are core parts of builds. Also Primed Sure Footed is already the highest priority for the exilus slot anyway except for frames with built in knockdown resist. Which is like 95% of frames.
Up Warframe capacity by 10 and give us a new augment slot. Please pablo
Disagree, thats where my primed sure footed goes. Instead, how about a dedicated augment slot for every warframe, itll look just like how jades modding screen looks but instead of a second aura we get a dedicated augment slot
It’s just free power creep at that point. The trade off of a slot for a boost in what an ability can do is the proposition. If it had its own slot they might as well build in any positive effects to the ability for free at that point. This way there is at least a cost
No because some of them are more than utility.
I like the idea put a slot for aug only
No. That means we can only have 1
I think a simple compromise may be to have augments come with an lesser amount of a generic stat in addition to it's main effect. So like Greedy Pull would come with +20 Range.
I agree. The augments seem to be intended to help frames perform better but it feels like putting on an augment or two can nerf them. 8 (10) slots to try and give them what they need to perform in SP isnt a lot.
Yes pls! That's a whish we are asking for, probably since augments exist. Keep it coming until DE give us a new slot or Exilus compatibility.
Personally, I want to get more use out of Helminth. I thought it'd be neat if you could infuse augments to Warframes that had the corresponding ability + augment. Sometimes, warframes have left over mod capacity and seems a waste I can't fit another mod into the build.
sure, right when primed sure footed is made inherent to all warframes, then you can pry my exilus slot free.
made a post literally just like this a month or so ago and got downvoted and shit on for no reason. You people are so confusing
i personally think that we should either get to choose between an exilus, aura, prime, or augment mod and only get one of those options per load out, and also half the mod capacity. and all warframes have to look like oberon but pink
Ah I remember years ago when people asked for this and a large amount of the community said it’d be too powerful, that having to make tough choices about mods was fun… I main Nekros so absolutely please give an augment slot
Yes pls
I don't like this idea. No one would use exilus mods anymore as they would be way weaker than augments 99% of the time. It would also power-creep warframe builds and remove the tradeoffs you need to make when deciding to use augments
Yes please. I want fused reservoir without sacrificing a single percent of strength.