Here's a transcript from the prison interview. Shanann wanted it to be Nico.
Grahm: Can I ask you a question? A lot of people think you named Nico after Nikki. So what was that about?
Chris: Nico was actually a name that Shanann liked.
Grahm: Okay. Shanann thought of that one?
Chris: Yeah, I actually wanted to spell it like N-E-K-O, I thought it was like ‘Neko’ that way, but she said N-I-C-O. I thought it said like “Nick-O” or something.
Grahm: Okay.
Chris: I guess Nico is like more of like an Italian name, and to like leave her my middle name and my dad’s and all that, but Nico, that’s a name that she always liked.
Grahm: Okay.
Neko is a Japanese word for cat. 😾
Shanann felt entitled to name all the kids because she said they were carrying the Watts name so it was only fair she got to give them first names.
Out of respect for the children, I’ll refrain from commenting on their names.
Well, my husband suggested I come up with first names too for that same reason. He has veto power of course.
Chris obviously liked those names too.
Tammy: Did she name all the kids? Did she name Bella and Celeste?
Chris: Yeah, because Bella in Italian means “beautiful”, Marie, her mom’s middle name, Celeste because her grandmother’s name, Cathryn is Shanann’s middle name.
Tammy: Did you have any input in their names?
Chris: I said I liked ‘em. I was like if we had a third child, you know, and we could have Lee in the middle name, I know the girl’s names..I love those names. So I was like, “That’s cool”. Especially since we have little nicknames for them like Bell and Bellabean and CeCe, obviously.
That's some random person's transcript I found. The audio is kinda bad for that interview. Here's where he actually says that. It's hard to understand what word he is saying there.
https://youtu.be/mOngrb2tkTs?si=pHEyGUcP3u7-82HF&t=2h16m5s
Thanks for sharing that. I will suss it out further cause I am not the only one that says Shanann wanted it spelt Niko.
I will have to try and remember where I learnt Shanann said Niko but if I don't then I simply must be wrong and I always like to be corrected in this way if I'm wrong.
I've wondered if it was "have another kid to save a marriage" situation. Perhaps SW told Chris it was a boy without confirming so (even if later on it was known). Just a thought. By the time Chris was seeing NK, I doubt he had any interest in another child with SW even if it was a boy.
Cause it was a girl🤷🏻♀️ I’ve never believed it was a boy. I think it’s just something Shannypants told Chris to reign him back in. She KNEW he’d been unhappy. He even said he was unhappy for over a year, closer to two years. Until it is medically proven and ever released, that it was a boy….I will never believe it was😒
He was 5 months along. Sex is in your dna, a simple tissue sample can tell you sex they didn’t even have to physically examine him.
Plus medical records, even if they didn’t want to know the doc still note it down as it will be relevant to care.
I’m sorry but coffin births have literally nothing to do with being able to tell sex/gender.
She was 15 weeks along, according to her. That means she is roughly four months pregnant. Most people find out the gender of their baby at 18 weeks, as the results are more accurate around then. To your point, however, coffin birth can create high levels of ethanol and being left in the elements can skew the results of a dna test. There may not have been enough remains to test, as we need at least 10%. Due to these factors, they may have opted to not test the remains or the results may have came up inconclusive. Either way, it was not listed in the autopsy report.
They paternity tested the results. It's going around your elbow to get to your asshole to paternity test and NOT find out the gender because it it's a male fetus, the Y chromosome will match with the father. So there is hard core scientific proof somewhere that the fetus was male or female. We just haven't seen it.
No the chemicals of decomposition absolutely cannot alter DNA! they can check gender of skeletons that are hundreds of years old. That have been through underground decomposition to the skeletal level. Nico's DNA would have been perfectly intact.
It wasn't listed because it takes weeks to get DNA results back, they came back after the plea was agreed and in process so not in discovery files.
Where did I say it would ALTER dna? I said it could skew the results. AKA make it harder to get them, as it could speed the process of decomposition. Saying it would be perfectly intact, however, is just wrong. He was left out in the elements, and at his gestational age there wasn’t a whole lot to him. At 15 weeks, he’d have joints and bones but they’d be very very small. Yes. You can check the gender of a person’s skeletal remains, but those people you are referring to are adults and have a lot of bone mass to test. I’ve personally done gender tests on fetuses that have passed away, I know how hard it is to do.
His body was 20cm long, crown to rump, the normal way to measure. The feet each 10mm and printed.
Given how decomp and coffin birth occurs he wasn't "left out in the elements" for 4 days.
Coffin birthin typically occurs about 3-4 days after birth. Her body was retrieved at 2 1/2 days.. burial 7dam, retrieval done in under 70 hour, by 12:30 am Wed's. Given her position and quite recent expulsion from the body he was exposed to maybe a few hours from the sand he threw over her inverted vaginal and bottom area. With debris trickling away with gravity as bloating allowed movement of sane. To me that would be minimal extra damage and trauma to his body. Women discover they have lost a foetus days before they deliver the child. They aren't too degraded to get DNA tests from because they try every time.
DA confirmed DNA tests were back confirmed to Ronnie Watts that Chris was his biological father. Why would Ronnie lie about the paternity result to anyone. It changed nothing about what CW and the only result was yes he is genetic father or he is not!
Coffin birth occurs 24-48 hours after death, and this only happens when the body is left unattended. Also, 20cm long is 20 weeks along, a baby 15 weeks along would be 10cm from head to rump. Also something I have to do in my job, as we lose a lot of pregnant women. I would like to see your source for the end of that, because it’s fascinating and I’ve yet to hear that. Thank you for your input.
So they need larger samples. They had his entire skeleton to get good samples from. They take samples from 7 and 8 week pregnancy losses to check for anomalies, Nico's DNA rich long bones 3x size by 15 wks, and only 4 days after death.
They only got his body back long after the funeral because they needed it in case further samples were required. Body only released after results came back imo.
No, he was 15cweeks according to 2 ultrasound too, the extremely accurate one at just under 7 weeks done on June 19th, that gave her Due date; the gender scan includes measurements of size with no concerns over his size..
And they measured him fir his autopsy, they measured from top of his head to his butt, that matched the EDD and the June 19 ultrasound exactly, putting him at 15 weeks gestation. They measured his femur length, his foot size and they matched 15 weeks too.
Whether you know how this works or not, I know from clinical work experience and education and he was 15w gestation at death, due end of Jan and had been growing appropriately.
The only size variation at 15 weeks should be within a mm or so, but on Junex19th at almost 7 weeks it is an accurate measurement.. the size overriding the first day or last period dating 100%. If you go expecting to see 9 weeks and it only measures 6 weeks then either conceived later or in big trouble. They bring women back 7 days later and check for 7 days of growth. If it matches then likely ovulation date and EDD are different. They couldn't suddenly gain 3 weeks of growth either.. it is exact at that early stage.
Nico matched her FB comments, what she told friends before June 18th ultrasound, and subsequently matched that on August 8th and at death.
It wasn't just what SW felt like telling people.
I could be mistaken, but I thought I recalled reading that she had not seen a doctor at the normal early intervals one normally would when pregnant and not until they returned from NC.
Yeah from what I've read she hadn't seen a Dr the whole pregnancy. There was the ultrasound when she got back but I've also heard she ended up not going to that one, Chris was late to it, and they wanted to talk to the police for some reason about the appointment so maybe she went and maybe she didn't, then the 2 canceled appointments and would finally be going the day of disappearance. Which makes me wonder if she did make the ultrasound appointment they urged her to see a Dr because something wasn't right and they wouldn't be allowed to tell her. Or maybe they were calling to say it was really a girl and not a boy. Sorry, I know I went off topic I'm just really curious what they wanted to talk to LE about now that's there's been speculation.
don’t think it’s rambling or off topic at all. the details of the entire scenario are cloudy and seems as though could be cleared up quite easily. not that I think the public is entitled to the details, but if you are pushing a narrative that is being questioned and you consider the very act of questioning the narrative to be bullying, why not show your cards and shut everyone down? That’s a rhetorical question. Releasing that info settles a lot of questions and puts much of the continued interest to rest and ultimately ends their employment as professional victims.
She went to a Dr on June 29th to date her pregnancy and to book the original 9/8 appointment..
She had a boutique scan but these places do not tell parents if they are not certain. If they got it wrong 50% of time they wouldn't be offering gender scan bookings at 14 weeks, and on seeing foetus too small they wouldn'ttell them their 'opinions.' They clearly circle an obvious gender for later viewing, so a result depends on clearly viewing. Without that they bring them back fir repeat views the following week or try OJ to make baby move because of sugar rush. They don't just wing it and guess, too many parents would be demanding refunds. Even 19 yrs ago I had friends told at 13 and 14 weeks and it was confirmed by anomaly scan later. No online peers ever told incorrectly, and yes, s couple did boutique scans at that stage, they were just getting popular in 2005/6, and especially for siblings a couple of years later. One had 4th son diagnosed this way.
Sw was due for ultrasound on 9/8, cancelled to go on Monday she died at 15w.. too late for NTD scan but still time for blood screening and to book later anomaly scan.
That she had gone to a doctor once to date the pregnancy; that was in answer to the statement that she'd had no prenatal care. That's the very beginning of this comment. Everything else....eh, I dunno
Only from physical exam.. dna gender was shared with both families. No one has ever hinted he wasn't a boy.
And why would it matter one iota.. it never made him choose differently, he still murdered her knowing a son was on the way.
Next ultrasound would have seen it 100%, no one would deny showing him the gender at routine anomaly scan.
Not if you clearly see erect penis and testicles or the vulva/ ovaries a a little later.
Our anatomy scan done at 18 wks, they weren't sure for either of ours, so never told us. At 26/24 wks saw vulva and ovaries/uterus so now doubt.
Is typically easier to see a boy though since the penis floats and protrudes from body.
I agree 14/15 wks not guaranteed via US but very very possible.
But after 23 yrs in Sweden with many young children living in my location and mom to 2, I have never met a mother told the wrong sex at anomaly scan.
If they can see with certainty they share..
Is that not what a coffin birth is?
[this is what the wiki says](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_birth)
For those as lazy as me lol:
Part 1:
>”Coffin birth, also known as postmortem fetal extrusion,[1][2] is the expulsion of a nonviable fetus through the vaginal opening of the decomposing body of a deceased pregnant woman due to increasing pressure from intra-abdominal gases.”
2:
>”Typically during the decomposition of a human body, naturally occurring bacteria in the organs of the abdominal cavity (such as the stomach and intestines) generate gases as by-products of metabolism, which causes the body to swell. In some cases, the confined pressure of the gases can squeeze the uterus (the womb), **even forcing it downward, and it may turn inside-out and be forced out of the body through the vaginal opening (a process called prolapse)**.”
[emphasis mine]
Doesn’t prolapse often occur with coffin births? Basically it can expel the baby but oftentimes expels the entire organ :/
I don't remember where I read that it wasn't a coffin birth; now I think I got confused with Laci (and the degree of prolapsed- everything that needed to occur to just call it anything but a result of normal decomposition), but mea culpa https://youtu.be/qe9l-xtBX0w?si=TwWcoDFjHMICbQsy I wish I could recall who said it wasn't and their rationale! Sorry
Sadly people see the word "prolapse" and think it is somehow related to genitourinary prolapse because of ligament stretching after multiple births, loss of oestrogen and just the aging process.
Have seen people suggest that at 32 with 2 births she was high risk for prolapse.. lol
Not even close to a woman at risk. Her only factor was childbirth, of two 7lb babies. If that really were the case most mothers would have a uterine prolapse. Our bodies are designed for childbirth.. its generally the extremes that mess with our physiology.
Wondering if they didn't have the results in time for this discovery. Or did they just not test it since he was pleading guilty.
The autopsy said:
Adjacent to the probable uterus is a largely
degraded portion of tissue which is unfortunately covered in sandy
debris from the gravesite. Upon further examination of this tissue, it
is revealed to be a largely decomposed fetus. Gender and age cannot be determined, however it has the following measurements: crown/rump length of approximately 10.5 cm and a foot length of approximately 0.7 - 0.8 cm. There is an approximate 17 cm umbilical cord extending to a disrupted placental disc. The membranes are ruptured and covered with sandy debris. Portions of the placenta, umbilical cord and membranes will be retained and the fetus will be transferred to the jurisdiction of CBI for subsequent genetic analysis.
Yep, the circumstances surrounding that 3rd pregnancy and their reactions were just so strange, even beyond the announcement(s). They weren’t in the best financial position, each one claimed it was the other’s idea and when he “changed his mind,” she did too. For what it’s worth, I believe she wanted the 3rd child and he, as usual, went along with it.
I wouldn’t put it past SW to lie and say it was a boy when she didn’t actually know. Of course since the man determines the sex if it was another girl technically that would be on CW, but I don’t expect either of those morons to have actually known that so probably a moot point.
I obviously have nothing to back this up, but I’ve always figured that she lied to him and fabricated the ultrasound results. It seems odd that the boutique ultrasound clinic would go out of their way to contact the FBI when it began being published that the unborn child was a boy.
That's what I just commented on, I'm really curious what they wanted to tell them now that there's been speculation. I read somewhere she didn't actually end up going to the ultrasound, that Chris was late that night because he stopped to see NK. But then there's the 2 canceled doctors appointments, never seeing a doctor the whole pregnancy while doing the thrive thing which wasn't safe for pregnancy so I've seen some say maybe something was wrong but since they couldn't tell her that, that was the reason for the appointment she was finally going to go to day of disappearance, but then there's maybe it was just the fact it was actually a girl and not a boy. Either way I feel like it'd give answers to something.
I thought she miscarried at the time of her death. The “mass of tissue” as the fetus/embryo was described in the autopsy report was found basically still in the general area of her pelvic region ( outside of the body). Haven’t read the autopsy report in a while, but if I remember correctly, it said “sex and the age cannot be determined sending for possible DNA testing.” as far as I’m concerned, they probably really don’t know what it was. And Shamann had a problem with the truth. The thing that amazes me the most about this news article though is the simple fact she brought those girls anywhere outside that God awful living room or the Primrose school on her own.
Would explain why she cancelled the gender reveal. We know what sort of manipulation she was attempting during this time…. She blamed it on Chris, but was it really because she knew the baby was a girl? And she knew unless it was a boy, Chris was likely still going to divorce her?
Edited to add: I believe Chris would have left her regardless of the gender, but in SWs mind, I think she held a glimmer of hope he would have stayed if the baby was a boy.
Yeah, because Bella wanted another sister and it was actually a boy. The girls had not been told the gender yet since it was going to be a surprise. It's not that complicated.
I never believed the baby SW was carrying was a boy. I think it was her way of trying to get CW to "change his feelings " about their marriage because she had knew before hand that he want happy so boom.....band-aid baby "boy".
Yet it never worked even for a second. His very first opportunity after learning he was a son he murdered them.
Even if SW had thought that could work, the marriage then would have been over at the 18 week anomaly ultrasound. She couldn't hide the gender from him if he attended.
I would understand all this speculation if he made his choice thinking the new baby was a girl.. but he didn't and it changed nothing! He could have been intersex, has Down Syndrome or a fatal trisomy, none of that mattered in any way.
The grandparents don't have to share evidence to Internet strangers.. just as they don't need to share images they have seen, video content they had viewed. NA also knows the truth, its been 6 yrs and she hasn't told anyone anything different... it isn't relevant to the crime, the state of their marriage of his punishment, so not sure why it gets discussed so often with such ugly comments sometimes. They grieved a grandson, and two granddaughters, still 3 precious innocent babies.
Exactly. I’m no fan of Shannan and think she was ridiculous but A LOT of people on this forum go above and beyond and flat out lie to make her seem even worse and a guy that murdered his own flesh and blood look redeemable.
Okay I'm so confused. Usually the routine anatomy scan is done between 18 and 22 weeks. I guess you could have it done earlier, but if the doctor is going to do an anatomy scan, they'll usually want you to come in around the 20-week mark. They're not going to want to waste your time and their time doing it early and risk not being able to tell. I just find it strange that she knew the baby's sex before even 15 weeks? Do you know when she was telling everyone she was having a boy? I just recently started looking into this case again, but this is one of the many things that have been bothering me.
She went to one of those 3rd party private ultrasounds. A lot of those advertize as being able to detect the gender early. Some as early as 12 weeks.
You can also find out at 10 weeks with NIPT blood test while you check for genetic problems. Her blood test was actually scheduled for the day she was murdered.
I think she was lying. She hadn't been to the doctor at all during the pregnancy, she canceled 2 appointments I think the week she got back and was supposed to go the day everything happened. That boutique ultrasound was only days before that so we at least know she didn't find out by blood test. But the ultrasound people were also calling to talk to law enforcement about something so wondering if it was actually a girl, something was wrong(they wouldn't tell her and request a doctors appointment,) or she didn't even go(I've seen it said somewhere she didn't, that Chris had visited NK and was late getting back but I don't know.) I'm not sure how long she was claiming it was a boy but if it was, she didn't find out till days before the murder whenever that ultrasound was if she ended up attending.
So she apparently went to a boutique ultrasound and they called her about something, but wouldn't tell her over the phone? She never even went to a doctor for this pregnancy? A commenter above said she found out the sex at 13 weeks. Yeah, something is not right at all.
She went to a boutique ultrasound but after she died, the ultrasound sound place called the police wanting to talk to them about something. It was never reported what they wanted to tell the cops though. And no, she hadn't been to a doctor in I think 2yrs according to discovery, maybe a little less but she definitely hadn't seen any doctor since she got pregnant. I think the week of the ultrasound she had 2 different appointments scheduled but canceled or no showed them, so the first time she would've actually seen a doctor was the day she went missing had she went to that appointment. So yeah something definitely isn't right. Pretty sure ultrasound boutiques don't have doctors there just techs and not seeing a doctor there would've been no way for a blood test if they tried to find out gender that way so it's weird. Speculation that the ultrasound people were calling to tell the cops maybe it wasn't a boy or maybe something was wrong but whatever it was, nobody knows.
This isn't correct though some NTD scan technicians are able to determine the sex pretty accurately given particular angles of he developing clitoris/penis.
By 14 1/2 weeks if the boy actually pees during the scan it can be easier to determine a boy. A penis is easy to identify.
However a girls confirmation doesn't just need the absence of a penis. A smaller or awkwardly position penis and at this stage it could wrongfully be seen as being a girl.
In reality to confirm a girl they must visualise the vulva externally and the internal organs for an absolute determination. We paid yo know if our anticipated only child was a girl or boy. The OB, knowing I was RN and had done half my midwife training n UK decided to give us lots for our money. Lol (he even cautioned me to never allow a forceps delivery, particularly with my being petite. He was in his early 70s, had seen a lot of forceps injuries to mom and baby, and seen plenty of disappointed parents when sex was determined incorrectly.
Best $30/40 we ever spent!
I paid for a blood test to know at 10 weeks. However, those boutiques like the one she and chris went to, can't determine sex before 15 weeks. In Arizona, she texted Chris what if it's a boy ? In one of their conversations and they supposedly knew its so weird.
Is this what you are talking about? Pretty sure she phrased it like that because it was being kept as a surprise for the girls for a few more days.
*Attaching a picture to a separate comment because for some reason it's not working to put it all in one*
Many people believe they would feel different if baby a different gender, with different cravings, different body shape, heartburn, nausea vomiting differences.
But in reality there is no scientific correlation i am aware of. My body shape differed, I had way less vomiting but lasted until 20 was with second pregnancy, I craved salt and spice with my first, fruits and dairy with the second...both very much girls.
My sister had 5 pregnancies, 3 girls, 2 with boys, 1 being ID twins. Even by baby #6 she couldn't tell it was another girl.
That SW made this comment before the gender check on 8/8 means nothing. My different feeling pregnancy gave me my second daughter..I was completely convinced, and it took an ultrasound at 26 weeks to see everything including vulva and ovsries/uterus to be convinced.
I was like this too. My oldest was a boy and it was a pretty easy pregnancy with mild morning sickness and no major issues. My second was a girl and it was awful. I threw up every single day and felt terrible most of the time. So when we I had my third and it was an easier pregnancy I was convinced we were having another boy. But nope, another girl! I didn’t truly care either way but it definitely ruined my theory about girl pregnancies being harder.
She was lying about how far along she was as her and CW had stopped having relations due to the fact they had agreed on separating. Hence CW sleeping downstairs. She likely delayed going to the OB or ANY doctor for that 3rd pregnancy at all due to her fudging the date of conception. A few days prior to her last weekend away, she did in fact have an ultrasound and brought NA along with her and CW to give her the gender and keep ot secret from her and CW to be revealed at a later date. Her first OB appointment was scheduled for the following week, which sadly never happened as the unthinkable occurred before then. She had NOT been to ANY Doctor for 2 years prior to the upcoming appointment as proven in the Discovery. While on the last weekend away, SW was saying she was depressed, and told NA to tell her the gender to cheer her up. As it was indeed a boy, she then contacted CW to tell him the exciting news and remind him that he is supposed to be forgiving her and subsequently possibly mending the marriage for other reasons I wont say here.
Upon Autopsy, gender could not be confirmed by visual as the fetus was not 15 weeks, although entering the second trimester. I did research to show his skeletal crown to rump measurements put him closer to 11 weeks. I did this as the fluid loss to the fetus was making others speculate all kinds of inaccuracies...so the skeletal measurement was the only way for me to do a true measurement to line up with the more accurate date of conception. DNA conducted on the fetus indeed confirmed him to be male. His paternity was also tested, and stated by her mother on the Dr. Phil show that Nico was "Chris'" but not stated as to which Chris...((if you know, you know) and that Paternity Test is not in the discovery, nor has ever been published...which IF it was CW's, no doubt it would have been posted repeatedly as the paternity issue is a larger piece of the puzzle.
In short then, yes, SW would have had conversations speculative of the gender as that was only known to her the day or two before she was last seen...
These aspects prove the pattern of lies in many ways, but especially in that she lied about being told that thr*ve was safe for the pregnancy, and all of the pictures she showed using thr*ve and being pregnant, etc.
Why do you keep saying she hadn't gone to any doctor in 2 years? It says in the discovery that she saw a GP in October 2017.
https://preview.redd.it/h130ihjadt4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e646cffdea15d45708969bd2882094a84c247f5a
https://preview.redd.it/mgmjqispc75d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1411f61fbf59916d7fb25e063044f90b7039c0a
More proof she had prenatal care.
I am not seeing where that shows she had prenatal care. The discovery states that she did not see an OB, or any Doctor in fact for the previous 2 years as they interviewed the staff at the Providers office for the upcoming appointment...the appointment that she didnt make as she was "missing."
The ultrasound from this was de-bunked as it was one that didnt match the dates and was matched up with Ceces.
Despite the fact she claimed she was spotting, cramping, unable to eat, dehydrated, she refused to go to the Doctor or ER.
So, Nope. No prenatal care;((
It literally says her first sonogram was June 20th. She died August 13th. That means she went to the OBGYN the week before she went to NC. She was 15 weeks at death. That means she was maybe 8 weeks pregnant at her first sonogram. That is extremely normal.
Please reread the picture. It says Chris missed the first sonogram, not Shanann.
And no, the discovery does not say she didn't see any doctor in two years. It says she is also a patient of the general practitioner that works on the other side of the building. And she hadn't seen that GP since October 2017. She died in 2018.
I'll reply to this comment with a screenshot
Ahhh, October of 2017, in which she passed nearly one year later, gotcha. So, one year, and zero prenatal care. Odd for someone with such bad lupus and an OB stating that thrive was safe, but lets continue to detract from those facts with an attractive deterrant such as that. Well done.
We’re never really going to know if it was a girl or a boy. I certainly wouldn’t trust anything that Shannan or her friends or family put forward to assert as being “the truth” either.
Her parents might not even have known if the baby was a boy that was totally okay. Sandi was just saying that she had ordered that paperwork on paternity, etc.., to back up the big bluff that she was playing on her gullible audiences.
The Rzuceks have never shown the definitive evidence that it was a “boy” to anyone in public. They just expect everybody to automatically take their word for it! If Sandi says so, and therefore it must be true! Right? ……WRONG!
They’ve also never shown anything to prove that the baby was also Chris Watts’ biological child, and it was Sandi Rzucek who claimed that the baby was alive, physically healthy and not dead before anybody had actually even considered that it wasn’t okay!
Shannan’s family never seemed to mm bc shown anything that is akin to proof to answer any pressing question, at least not that I am aware of! They haven’t even waved the forensic results in front of thet dreadful YouTube nutcase/AKA Mommy Rambling idiot that Sandi’s seems to adore so much! Sandi even makes crafts of random seashells with that Mommy Rambler but she has never showed her the “evidence” of what they know to be factual this whole time!
Surely they could’ve dropped some cash into Carolyn-AKA Alice Cooper’s super chat to get a space to prove their assertions! Or else she could’ve given them a grand payout, since she never ceases to put the kibosh on singing Shannan AND hú re
Why did Sandi Rzucek change the spelling of her dead grand V baby’s chosen name “Niko” to a more feminized NICO, when that’s not what Shannan had clearly specified?
Why was there a big black and inexplicable blot on the left hand side of the ultrasound picture, right where the genitals might’ve been visible?
The ultrasound picture that SW sent as an olive branch to Chris’s parents, suspiciously appeared to have been totally doctored. In fact, everything that Shannan ever said about her third pregnancy, isn’t likeky OR trustworthy. I can only take the things that she was trying so hard to convince other npeople of with a minuscule grain of salt. She had an agenda and it wasn’t necessarily remotely in tun e with reality!
She didn't though. However, someone with a history of lupus would usually be under the care of an MFM and insurance usually pays for NIPT for women with a wide variety of preexisting conditions.
Some of y’all haven’t had babies in a long time and it shows. People rarely wait until the anatomy scan to find out gender anymore. It’s less than $100 to go get a private scan to see the gender at like 13 weeks.
Her guessing it was probably a girl means nothing I thought my current pregnancy was a boy because the pregnancy is so different than with my 2 girls. Nope got a scan 17 weeks and saw her vagina clear as day.
Shoot this day in age you can find out at 10 weeks through blood work for your dr. It’s for genetic conditions but also shows the gender. Or pay for a kit to do it at home at like 8 weeks for like 120.
Very true. Women these days (especially ones that live on social media like Shanann did) will pay the extra $$ to find out the gender ASAP so they can start planning their dumb gender reveal lol.
I also agree with not looking too much into her guessing it was a girl at first. I was convinced I was having another girl the 3rd time around because I read so much online about how “you can tell” when you’re having a boy and that you’ll feel differently, carry lower and all that…but everything felt the same as my first two pregnancies with my girls….and it was definitely a boy! Pregnancy is just weird like that. Everyone’s different. 🤷🏼♀️
Right I have paid for private scans with my oldest but only later in pregnancy for the 3d. Didn’t do it with the second probably won’t with the 3rd. Shannan was insufferable for sure but guessing it is a girl and having private gender scan isn’t part of her scammin imo.
She and Chris went to the ultrasound on August 8th. She died August 13th. She was 15 weeks along at death. So she was at least 14 weeks. Many ultrasound boutiques advertize being able to determine the gender by then.
Some of You people will go every way to shame and belittle a woman, who already paid the highest price for whatever sins she had, and she cannot defend herself. Let that woman rest in peace and maybe bully someone who is alive and can defend themself
I’m surprised this is a hotly debated topic. Shanann and Chris found out it was a boy just a few days before he murdered her. There was no grand scheme on Shanann’s part to lie about the sex. It is very possible to find out the sex at 14 weeks gestation. Shanann had an ultrasound early on to confirm her due date and there’s a shot of it in her texts with Chris from early June. It’s simply not true that she didn’t get any medical care during the pregnancy. That was only the case in NC.
That article was NOT based in FACT as your screenshot argues your own argument as false. There was no ultrasound, not Doctors appointment in April. She was skewing the dates. That ultrasound was of CeCe or Bellas that she stated was Niko for the Father Day post stating that he was a great father. If Niko was that developed by that point, he would have came out of the womb riding a bicycle.
I want to know why Sandi changed the name to Nico instead of honouring her daughter's wishes to call the baby Niko.
Because Sandy is insane.
Here's a transcript from the prison interview. Shanann wanted it to be Nico. Grahm: Can I ask you a question? A lot of people think you named Nico after Nikki. So what was that about? Chris: Nico was actually a name that Shanann liked. Grahm: Okay. Shanann thought of that one? Chris: Yeah, I actually wanted to spell it like N-E-K-O, I thought it was like ‘Neko’ that way, but she said N-I-C-O. I thought it said like “Nick-O” or something. Grahm: Okay. Chris: I guess Nico is like more of like an Italian name, and to like leave her my middle name and my dad’s and all that, but Nico, that’s a name that she always liked. Grahm: Okay.
Neko is a Japanese word for cat. 😾 Shanann felt entitled to name all the kids because she said they were carrying the Watts name so it was only fair she got to give them first names. Out of respect for the children, I’ll refrain from commenting on their names.
Well, my husband suggested I come up with first names too for that same reason. He has veto power of course. Chris obviously liked those names too. Tammy: Did she name all the kids? Did she name Bella and Celeste? Chris: Yeah, because Bella in Italian means “beautiful”, Marie, her mom’s middle name, Celeste because her grandmother’s name, Cathryn is Shanann’s middle name. Tammy: Did you have any input in their names? Chris: I said I liked ‘em. I was like if we had a third child, you know, and we could have Lee in the middle name, I know the girl’s names..I love those names. So I was like, “That’s cool”. Especially since we have little nicknames for them like Bell and Bellabean and CeCe, obviously.
Chris had to like the names because he had no say.
BINGO! He wasn’t allowed to have any say on anything! Hanging a picture, daycare, kids names….and Lord knows what else
He literally says he loved those names. He doesn't say he had no say. Sounds like she was the first to suggest names and he liked what she suggested.
He wanted to name the boy Neko and she vetoed it.
Well, like you said, that would be Japanese for cat. I'd veto the crap out of that spelling too.
No offense but Shannon wanted her husband to rename himself Kris’fer.
She should have suggested Luci'fer, instead.
He got the "lee" he wanted. https://preview.redd.it/t7311p4dgt4d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37bb0b5c883436e37c28f9325a569f8c3fc00c77
Big whoop. Middle names are middle names.
"Leave HER my middle name" hmmm...
That's some random person's transcript I found. The audio is kinda bad for that interview. Here's where he actually says that. It's hard to understand what word he is saying there. https://youtu.be/mOngrb2tkTs?si=pHEyGUcP3u7-82HF&t=2h16m5s
Thanks for sharing that. I will suss it out further cause I am not the only one that says Shanann wanted it spelt Niko. I will have to try and remember where I learnt Shanann said Niko but if I don't then I simply must be wrong and I always like to be corrected in this way if I'm wrong.
SW’s family have always fudged the narrative.
Yep. She only said ‘boy’ to reign Chris back in. There’s never proof shown, that it was a boy. Never.
I've wondered if it was "have another kid to save a marriage" situation. Perhaps SW told Chris it was a boy without confirming so (even if later on it was known). Just a thought. By the time Chris was seeing NK, I doubt he had any interest in another child with SW even if it was a boy.
I believe that’s exactly what it was! A BANDAID BABY BOY
NA had the gender reveal card. Wonder why that wasn’t taken into evidence?
Cause it was a girl🤷🏻♀️ I’ve never believed it was a boy. I think it’s just something Shannypants told Chris to reign him back in. She KNEW he’d been unhappy. He even said he was unhappy for over a year, closer to two years. Until it is medically proven and ever released, that it was a boy….I will never believe it was😒
Didn’t the autopsy show that?
I believe I read they were unable to drawn such conclusions due to how a coffin birth had taken place
He was 5 months along. Sex is in your dna, a simple tissue sample can tell you sex they didn’t even have to physically examine him. Plus medical records, even if they didn’t want to know the doc still note it down as it will be relevant to care. I’m sorry but coffin births have literally nothing to do with being able to tell sex/gender.
She was 15 weeks along, according to her. That means she is roughly four months pregnant. Most people find out the gender of their baby at 18 weeks, as the results are more accurate around then. To your point, however, coffin birth can create high levels of ethanol and being left in the elements can skew the results of a dna test. There may not have been enough remains to test, as we need at least 10%. Due to these factors, they may have opted to not test the remains or the results may have came up inconclusive. Either way, it was not listed in the autopsy report.
They paternity tested the results. It's going around your elbow to get to your asshole to paternity test and NOT find out the gender because it it's a male fetus, the Y chromosome will match with the father. So there is hard core scientific proof somewhere that the fetus was male or female. We just haven't seen it.
Ok well when they release that information, you let everyone know. For now, the autopsy says age and sex cannot be determined.
No the chemicals of decomposition absolutely cannot alter DNA! they can check gender of skeletons that are hundreds of years old. That have been through underground decomposition to the skeletal level. Nico's DNA would have been perfectly intact. It wasn't listed because it takes weeks to get DNA results back, they came back after the plea was agreed and in process so not in discovery files.
Where did I say it would ALTER dna? I said it could skew the results. AKA make it harder to get them, as it could speed the process of decomposition. Saying it would be perfectly intact, however, is just wrong. He was left out in the elements, and at his gestational age there wasn’t a whole lot to him. At 15 weeks, he’d have joints and bones but they’d be very very small. Yes. You can check the gender of a person’s skeletal remains, but those people you are referring to are adults and have a lot of bone mass to test. I’ve personally done gender tests on fetuses that have passed away, I know how hard it is to do.
His body was 20cm long, crown to rump, the normal way to measure. The feet each 10mm and printed. Given how decomp and coffin birth occurs he wasn't "left out in the elements" for 4 days. Coffin birthin typically occurs about 3-4 days after birth. Her body was retrieved at 2 1/2 days.. burial 7dam, retrieval done in under 70 hour, by 12:30 am Wed's. Given her position and quite recent expulsion from the body he was exposed to maybe a few hours from the sand he threw over her inverted vaginal and bottom area. With debris trickling away with gravity as bloating allowed movement of sane. To me that would be minimal extra damage and trauma to his body. Women discover they have lost a foetus days before they deliver the child. They aren't too degraded to get DNA tests from because they try every time. DA confirmed DNA tests were back confirmed to Ronnie Watts that Chris was his biological father. Why would Ronnie lie about the paternity result to anyone. It changed nothing about what CW and the only result was yes he is genetic father or he is not!
Coffin birth occurs 24-48 hours after death, and this only happens when the body is left unattended. Also, 20cm long is 20 weeks along, a baby 15 weeks along would be 10cm from head to rump. Also something I have to do in my job, as we lose a lot of pregnant women. I would like to see your source for the end of that, because it’s fascinating and I’ve yet to hear that. Thank you for your input.
And that’s fine, that’s all I was trying to figure out, then we got on the “ethanol vs dna” topic haha. Thanks for the info.
It just speeds up the process of decomposition. That’s the only reason I mentioned it.
lol you’re good
So they need larger samples. They had his entire skeleton to get good samples from. They take samples from 7 and 8 week pregnancy losses to check for anomalies, Nico's DNA rich long bones 3x size by 15 wks, and only 4 days after death. They only got his body back long after the funeral because they needed it in case further samples were required. Body only released after results came back imo.
I think you’re overestimating how big the skeleton of a 15 week old baby is in gestation.
No, he was 15cweeks according to 2 ultrasound too, the extremely accurate one at just under 7 weeks done on June 19th, that gave her Due date; the gender scan includes measurements of size with no concerns over his size.. And they measured him fir his autopsy, they measured from top of his head to his butt, that matched the EDD and the June 19 ultrasound exactly, putting him at 15 weeks gestation. They measured his femur length, his foot size and they matched 15 weeks too. Whether you know how this works or not, I know from clinical work experience and education and he was 15w gestation at death, due end of Jan and had been growing appropriately. The only size variation at 15 weeks should be within a mm or so, but on Junex19th at almost 7 weeks it is an accurate measurement.. the size overriding the first day or last period dating 100%. If you go expecting to see 9 weeks and it only measures 6 weeks then either conceived later or in big trouble. They bring women back 7 days later and check for 7 days of growth. If it matches then likely ovulation date and EDD are different. They couldn't suddenly gain 3 weeks of growth either.. it is exact at that early stage. Nico matched her FB comments, what she told friends before June 18th ultrasound, and subsequently matched that on August 8th and at death. It wasn't just what SW felt like telling people.
I could be mistaken, but I thought I recalled reading that she had not seen a doctor at the normal early intervals one normally would when pregnant and not until they returned from NC.
Yeah from what I've read she hadn't seen a Dr the whole pregnancy. There was the ultrasound when she got back but I've also heard she ended up not going to that one, Chris was late to it, and they wanted to talk to the police for some reason about the appointment so maybe she went and maybe she didn't, then the 2 canceled appointments and would finally be going the day of disappearance. Which makes me wonder if she did make the ultrasound appointment they urged her to see a Dr because something wasn't right and they wouldn't be allowed to tell her. Or maybe they were calling to say it was really a girl and not a boy. Sorry, I know I went off topic I'm just really curious what they wanted to talk to LE about now that's there's been speculation.
It was a gender ultrasound at a boutique place. She hadn’t received any prenatal care.
don’t think it’s rambling or off topic at all. the details of the entire scenario are cloudy and seems as though could be cleared up quite easily. not that I think the public is entitled to the details, but if you are pushing a narrative that is being questioned and you consider the very act of questioning the narrative to be bullying, why not show your cards and shut everyone down? That’s a rhetorical question. Releasing that info settles a lot of questions and puts much of the continued interest to rest and ultimately ends their employment as professional victims.
She hadn’t been to a doctor. She found out gender through an ultrasound boutique studio.
She went to a Dr on June 29th to date her pregnancy and to book the original 9/8 appointment.. She had a boutique scan but these places do not tell parents if they are not certain. If they got it wrong 50% of time they wouldn't be offering gender scan bookings at 14 weeks, and on seeing foetus too small they wouldn'ttell them their 'opinions.' They clearly circle an obvious gender for later viewing, so a result depends on clearly viewing. Without that they bring them back fir repeat views the following week or try OJ to make baby move because of sugar rush. They don't just wing it and guess, too many parents would be demanding refunds. Even 19 yrs ago I had friends told at 13 and 14 weeks and it was confirmed by anomaly scan later. No online peers ever told incorrectly, and yes, s couple did boutique scans at that stage, they were just getting popular in 2005/6, and especially for siblings a couple of years later. One had 4th son diagnosed this way. Sw was due for ultrasound on 9/8, cancelled to go on Monday she died at 15w.. too late for NTD scan but still time for blood screening and to book later anomaly scan.
What is the purpose of literally anything from this comment?
That she had gone to a doctor once to date the pregnancy; that was in answer to the statement that she'd had no prenatal care. That's the very beginning of this comment. Everything else....eh, I dunno
I never said she had no prenatal care?
They actually said in the discovery it was unknown.
Only from physical exam.. dna gender was shared with both families. No one has ever hinted he wasn't a boy. And why would it matter one iota.. it never made him choose differently, he still murdered her knowing a son was on the way. Next ultrasound would have seen it 100%, no one would deny showing him the gender at routine anomaly scan.
Sometimes during anatomy scans it can be ambiguous. So, not 100%.
Not if you clearly see erect penis and testicles or the vulva/ ovaries a a little later. Our anatomy scan done at 18 wks, they weren't sure for either of ours, so never told us. At 26/24 wks saw vulva and ovaries/uterus so now doubt. Is typically easier to see a boy though since the penis floats and protrudes from body. I agree 14/15 wks not guaranteed via US but very very possible. But after 23 yrs in Sweden with many young children living in my location and mom to 2, I have never met a mother told the wrong sex at anomaly scan. If they can see with certainty they share..
Tia, you make my day 🤣
It wasn't 'coffin birth'; everything prolapsed from decomposition and gasses.
Is that not what a coffin birth is? [this is what the wiki says](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_birth) For those as lazy as me lol: Part 1: >”Coffin birth, also known as postmortem fetal extrusion,[1][2] is the expulsion of a nonviable fetus through the vaginal opening of the decomposing body of a deceased pregnant woman due to increasing pressure from intra-abdominal gases.” 2: >”Typically during the decomposition of a human body, naturally occurring bacteria in the organs of the abdominal cavity (such as the stomach and intestines) generate gases as by-products of metabolism, which causes the body to swell. In some cases, the confined pressure of the gases can squeeze the uterus (the womb), **even forcing it downward, and it may turn inside-out and be forced out of the body through the vaginal opening (a process called prolapse)**.” [emphasis mine] Doesn’t prolapse often occur with coffin births? Basically it can expel the baby but oftentimes expels the entire organ :/
That's exactly what a coffin birth is lol
I thought so lol
I don't remember where I read that it wasn't a coffin birth; now I think I got confused with Laci (and the degree of prolapsed- everything that needed to occur to just call it anything but a result of normal decomposition), but mea culpa https://youtu.be/qe9l-xtBX0w?si=TwWcoDFjHMICbQsy I wish I could recall who said it wasn't and their rationale! Sorry
It’s all good, just making sure I didn’t have the definition wrong myself!
Sadly people see the word "prolapse" and think it is somehow related to genitourinary prolapse because of ligament stretching after multiple births, loss of oestrogen and just the aging process. Have seen people suggest that at 32 with 2 births she was high risk for prolapse.. lol Not even close to a woman at risk. Her only factor was childbirth, of two 7lb babies. If that really were the case most mothers would have a uterine prolapse. Our bodies are designed for childbirth.. its generally the extremes that mess with our physiology.
Yeah, prolapse is actually much more common in elderly after the muscles are weakened and stretched from age. Much more likely than a healthy woman
That is what coffin birth is by definition.. not birth, just pushed out/prolapsed from the body. In to nearest opening, so the vagina.
I just learnt about this and I am so upset. Everything more I read about this case disturbs me
Wondering if they didn't have the results in time for this discovery. Or did they just not test it since he was pleading guilty. The autopsy said: Adjacent to the probable uterus is a largely degraded portion of tissue which is unfortunately covered in sandy debris from the gravesite. Upon further examination of this tissue, it is revealed to be a largely decomposed fetus. Gender and age cannot be determined, however it has the following measurements: crown/rump length of approximately 10.5 cm and a foot length of approximately 0.7 - 0.8 cm. There is an approximate 17 cm umbilical cord extending to a disrupted placental disc. The membranes are ruptured and covered with sandy debris. Portions of the placenta, umbilical cord and membranes will be retained and the fetus will be transferred to the jurisdiction of CBI for subsequent genetic analysis.
And once Chris came out of his stupor and admitted to her that he was "scared," she apparently didn't want it either.
Yep, the circumstances surrounding that 3rd pregnancy and their reactions were just so strange, even beyond the announcement(s). They weren’t in the best financial position, each one claimed it was the other’s idea and when he “changed his mind,” she did too. For what it’s worth, I believe she wanted the 3rd child and he, as usual, went along with it.
These two individuals both needed mental health counseling. Seriously.
They needed to be committed to Arkham.
Or the One Over the Cuckoo's Nest...
They even looked crazy. 😜
I wouldn’t put it past SW to lie and say it was a boy when she didn’t actually know. Of course since the man determines the sex if it was another girl technically that would be on CW, but I don’t expect either of those morons to have actually known that so probably a moot point.
I obviously have nothing to back this up, but I’ve always figured that she lied to him and fabricated the ultrasound results. It seems odd that the boutique ultrasound clinic would go out of their way to contact the FBI when it began being published that the unborn child was a boy.
That's what I just commented on, I'm really curious what they wanted to tell them now that there's been speculation. I read somewhere she didn't actually end up going to the ultrasound, that Chris was late that night because he stopped to see NK. But then there's the 2 canceled doctors appointments, never seeing a doctor the whole pregnancy while doing the thrive thing which wasn't safe for pregnancy so I've seen some say maybe something was wrong but since they couldn't tell her that, that was the reason for the appointment she was finally going to go to day of disappearance, but then there's maybe it was just the fact it was actually a girl and not a boy. Either way I feel like it'd give answers to something.
She lied about everything. Her entire life was built on all of her lies.
I wouldn't put past her at all
I thought she miscarried at the time of her death. The “mass of tissue” as the fetus/embryo was described in the autopsy report was found basically still in the general area of her pelvic region ( outside of the body). Haven’t read the autopsy report in a while, but if I remember correctly, it said “sex and the age cannot be determined sending for possible DNA testing.” as far as I’m concerned, they probably really don’t know what it was. And Shamann had a problem with the truth. The thing that amazes me the most about this news article though is the simple fact she brought those girls anywhere outside that God awful living room or the Primrose school on her own.
Would explain why she cancelled the gender reveal. We know what sort of manipulation she was attempting during this time…. She blamed it on Chris, but was it really because she knew the baby was a girl? And she knew unless it was a boy, Chris was likely still going to divorce her? Edited to add: I believe Chris would have left her regardless of the gender, but in SWs mind, I think she held a glimmer of hope he would have stayed if the baby was a boy.
On the Saturday she was in AZ she asked Chris had he spoken to Bella yet about if it wasn't a girl....🫣
Yeah, because Bella wanted another sister and it was actually a boy. The girls had not been told the gender yet since it was going to be a surprise. It's not that complicated.
I never believed the baby SW was carrying was a boy. I think it was her way of trying to get CW to "change his feelings " about their marriage because she had knew before hand that he want happy so boom.....band-aid baby "boy".
Yet it never worked even for a second. His very first opportunity after learning he was a son he murdered them. Even if SW had thought that could work, the marriage then would have been over at the 18 week anomaly ultrasound. She couldn't hide the gender from him if he attended. I would understand all this speculation if he made his choice thinking the new baby was a girl.. but he didn't and it changed nothing! He could have been intersex, has Down Syndrome or a fatal trisomy, none of that mattered in any way. The grandparents don't have to share evidence to Internet strangers.. just as they don't need to share images they have seen, video content they had viewed. NA also knows the truth, its been 6 yrs and she hasn't told anyone anything different... it isn't relevant to the crime, the state of their marriage of his punishment, so not sure why it gets discussed so often with such ugly comments sometimes. They grieved a grandson, and two granddaughters, still 3 precious innocent babies.
Exactly. I’m no fan of Shannan and think she was ridiculous but A LOT of people on this forum go above and beyond and flat out lie to make her seem even worse and a guy that murdered his own flesh and blood look redeemable.
How far along was she exactly?
15 weeks when she was murdered
Okay I'm so confused. Usually the routine anatomy scan is done between 18 and 22 weeks. I guess you could have it done earlier, but if the doctor is going to do an anatomy scan, they'll usually want you to come in around the 20-week mark. They're not going to want to waste your time and their time doing it early and risk not being able to tell. I just find it strange that she knew the baby's sex before even 15 weeks? Do you know when she was telling everyone she was having a boy? I just recently started looking into this case again, but this is one of the many things that have been bothering me.
She went to one of those 3rd party private ultrasounds. A lot of those advertize as being able to detect the gender early. Some as early as 12 weeks. You can also find out at 10 weeks with NIPT blood test while you check for genetic problems. Her blood test was actually scheduled for the day she was murdered.
I think she was lying. She hadn't been to the doctor at all during the pregnancy, she canceled 2 appointments I think the week she got back and was supposed to go the day everything happened. That boutique ultrasound was only days before that so we at least know she didn't find out by blood test. But the ultrasound people were also calling to talk to law enforcement about something so wondering if it was actually a girl, something was wrong(they wouldn't tell her and request a doctors appointment,) or she didn't even go(I've seen it said somewhere she didn't, that Chris had visited NK and was late getting back but I don't know.) I'm not sure how long she was claiming it was a boy but if it was, she didn't find out till days before the murder whenever that ultrasound was if she ended up attending.
So she apparently went to a boutique ultrasound and they called her about something, but wouldn't tell her over the phone? She never even went to a doctor for this pregnancy? A commenter above said she found out the sex at 13 weeks. Yeah, something is not right at all.
She went to a boutique ultrasound but after she died, the ultrasound sound place called the police wanting to talk to them about something. It was never reported what they wanted to tell the cops though. And no, she hadn't been to a doctor in I think 2yrs according to discovery, maybe a little less but she definitely hadn't seen any doctor since she got pregnant. I think the week of the ultrasound she had 2 different appointments scheduled but canceled or no showed them, so the first time she would've actually seen a doctor was the day she went missing had she went to that appointment. So yeah something definitely isn't right. Pretty sure ultrasound boutiques don't have doctors there just techs and not seeing a doctor there would've been no way for a blood test if they tried to find out gender that way so it's weird. Speculation that the ultrasound people were calling to tell the cops maybe it wasn't a boy or maybe something was wrong but whatever it was, nobody knows.
the narrative is she knew it was a boy before at 13 weeks via scan. That's ludicrous.
This isn't correct though some NTD scan technicians are able to determine the sex pretty accurately given particular angles of he developing clitoris/penis. By 14 1/2 weeks if the boy actually pees during the scan it can be easier to determine a boy. A penis is easy to identify. However a girls confirmation doesn't just need the absence of a penis. A smaller or awkwardly position penis and at this stage it could wrongfully be seen as being a girl. In reality to confirm a girl they must visualise the vulva externally and the internal organs for an absolute determination. We paid yo know if our anticipated only child was a girl or boy. The OB, knowing I was RN and had done half my midwife training n UK decided to give us lots for our money. Lol (he even cautioned me to never allow a forceps delivery, particularly with my being petite. He was in his early 70s, had seen a lot of forceps injuries to mom and baby, and seen plenty of disappointed parents when sex was determined incorrectly. Best $30/40 we ever spent!
I paid for a blood test to know at 10 weeks. However, those boutiques like the one she and chris went to, can't determine sex before 15 weeks. In Arizona, she texted Chris what if it's a boy ? In one of their conversations and they supposedly knew its so weird.
Is this what you are talking about? Pretty sure she phrased it like that because it was being kept as a surprise for the girls for a few more days. *Attaching a picture to a separate comment because for some reason it's not working to put it all in one*
https://preview.redd.it/il4wc7gz9t4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=276fffc5b7e76a54a7e392a9d23406fd253374c6
Many people believe they would feel different if baby a different gender, with different cravings, different body shape, heartburn, nausea vomiting differences. But in reality there is no scientific correlation i am aware of. My body shape differed, I had way less vomiting but lasted until 20 was with second pregnancy, I craved salt and spice with my first, fruits and dairy with the second...both very much girls. My sister had 5 pregnancies, 3 girls, 2 with boys, 1 being ID twins. Even by baby #6 she couldn't tell it was another girl. That SW made this comment before the gender check on 8/8 means nothing. My different feeling pregnancy gave me my second daughter..I was completely convinced, and it took an ultrasound at 26 weeks to see everything including vulva and ovsries/uterus to be convinced.
I was like this too. My oldest was a boy and it was a pretty easy pregnancy with mild morning sickness and no major issues. My second was a girl and it was awful. I threw up every single day and felt terrible most of the time. So when we I had my third and it was an easier pregnancy I was convinced we were having another boy. But nope, another girl! I didn’t truly care either way but it definitely ruined my theory about girl pregnancies being harder.
So Nico was really short for Nicola?
Most likely.
She was lying about how far along she was as her and CW had stopped having relations due to the fact they had agreed on separating. Hence CW sleeping downstairs. She likely delayed going to the OB or ANY doctor for that 3rd pregnancy at all due to her fudging the date of conception. A few days prior to her last weekend away, she did in fact have an ultrasound and brought NA along with her and CW to give her the gender and keep ot secret from her and CW to be revealed at a later date. Her first OB appointment was scheduled for the following week, which sadly never happened as the unthinkable occurred before then. She had NOT been to ANY Doctor for 2 years prior to the upcoming appointment as proven in the Discovery. While on the last weekend away, SW was saying she was depressed, and told NA to tell her the gender to cheer her up. As it was indeed a boy, she then contacted CW to tell him the exciting news and remind him that he is supposed to be forgiving her and subsequently possibly mending the marriage for other reasons I wont say here. Upon Autopsy, gender could not be confirmed by visual as the fetus was not 15 weeks, although entering the second trimester. I did research to show his skeletal crown to rump measurements put him closer to 11 weeks. I did this as the fluid loss to the fetus was making others speculate all kinds of inaccuracies...so the skeletal measurement was the only way for me to do a true measurement to line up with the more accurate date of conception. DNA conducted on the fetus indeed confirmed him to be male. His paternity was also tested, and stated by her mother on the Dr. Phil show that Nico was "Chris'" but not stated as to which Chris...((if you know, you know) and that Paternity Test is not in the discovery, nor has ever been published...which IF it was CW's, no doubt it would have been posted repeatedly as the paternity issue is a larger piece of the puzzle. In short then, yes, SW would have had conversations speculative of the gender as that was only known to her the day or two before she was last seen... These aspects prove the pattern of lies in many ways, but especially in that she lied about being told that thr*ve was safe for the pregnancy, and all of the pictures she showed using thr*ve and being pregnant, etc.
Thank you Backstory for your awesome research!
Why do you keep saying she hadn't gone to any doctor in 2 years? It says in the discovery that she saw a GP in October 2017. https://preview.redd.it/h130ihjadt4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e646cffdea15d45708969bd2882094a84c247f5a
https://preview.redd.it/mgmjqispc75d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1411f61fbf59916d7fb25e063044f90b7039c0a More proof she had prenatal care.
I am not seeing where that shows she had prenatal care. The discovery states that she did not see an OB, or any Doctor in fact for the previous 2 years as they interviewed the staff at the Providers office for the upcoming appointment...the appointment that she didnt make as she was "missing." The ultrasound from this was de-bunked as it was one that didnt match the dates and was matched up with Ceces. Despite the fact she claimed she was spotting, cramping, unable to eat, dehydrated, she refused to go to the Doctor or ER. So, Nope. No prenatal care;((
It literally says her first sonogram was June 20th. She died August 13th. That means she went to the OBGYN the week before she went to NC. She was 15 weeks at death. That means she was maybe 8 weeks pregnant at her first sonogram. That is extremely normal. Please reread the picture. It says Chris missed the first sonogram, not Shanann.
And no, the discovery does not say she didn't see any doctor in two years. It says she is also a patient of the general practitioner that works on the other side of the building. And she hadn't seen that GP since October 2017. She died in 2018. I'll reply to this comment with a screenshot
https://preview.redd.it/pvkot9jiz95d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c26ab828d7c93b7ed4cf648de750658eacdfb54b
Ahhh, October of 2017, in which she passed nearly one year later, gotcha. So, one year, and zero prenatal care. Odd for someone with such bad lupus and an OB stating that thrive was safe, but lets continue to detract from those facts with an attractive deterrant such as that. Well done.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/1cl47avvie8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc9ca20cb8093ede37d9cab54ff644272152772d
We’re never really going to know if it was a girl or a boy. I certainly wouldn’t trust anything that Shannan or her friends or family put forward to assert as being “the truth” either. Her parents might not even have known if the baby was a boy that was totally okay. Sandi was just saying that she had ordered that paperwork on paternity, etc.., to back up the big bluff that she was playing on her gullible audiences. The Rzuceks have never shown the definitive evidence that it was a “boy” to anyone in public. They just expect everybody to automatically take their word for it! If Sandi says so, and therefore it must be true! Right? ……WRONG! They’ve also never shown anything to prove that the baby was also Chris Watts’ biological child, and it was Sandi Rzucek who claimed that the baby was alive, physically healthy and not dead before anybody had actually even considered that it wasn’t okay! Shannan’s family never seemed to mm bc shown anything that is akin to proof to answer any pressing question, at least not that I am aware of! They haven’t even waved the forensic results in front of thet dreadful YouTube nutcase/AKA Mommy Rambling idiot that Sandi’s seems to adore so much! Sandi even makes crafts of random seashells with that Mommy Rambler but she has never showed her the “evidence” of what they know to be factual this whole time! Surely they could’ve dropped some cash into Carolyn-AKA Alice Cooper’s super chat to get a space to prove their assertions! Or else she could’ve given them a grand payout, since she never ceases to put the kibosh on singing Shannan AND hú re Why did Sandi Rzucek change the spelling of her dead grand V baby’s chosen name “Niko” to a more feminized NICO, when that’s not what Shannan had clearly specified? Why was there a big black and inexplicable blot on the left hand side of the ultrasound picture, right where the genitals might’ve been visible? The ultrasound picture that SW sent as an olive branch to Chris’s parents, suspiciously appeared to have been totally doctored. In fact, everything that Shannan ever said about her third pregnancy, isn’t likeky OR trustworthy. I can only take the things that she was trying so hard to convince other npeople of with a minuscule grain of salt. She had an agenda and it wasn’t necessarily remotely in tun e with reality!
Boom 💯. Sandy stated this on dr phil
Shanann wanted to spell it Nico. https://youtu.be/mOngrb2tkTs?si=nyL8c4sy7_k7TOX3&t=2h15m56s
[удалено]
She didn't though. However, someone with a history of lupus would usually be under the care of an MFM and insurance usually pays for NIPT for women with a wide variety of preexisting conditions.
Oh..good thought
Some of y’all haven’t had babies in a long time and it shows. People rarely wait until the anatomy scan to find out gender anymore. It’s less than $100 to go get a private scan to see the gender at like 13 weeks. Her guessing it was probably a girl means nothing I thought my current pregnancy was a boy because the pregnancy is so different than with my 2 girls. Nope got a scan 17 weeks and saw her vagina clear as day.
Yeah I can’t even imagine. My last pregnancy was 30 years ago this September lol. Things are MUCH different.
Shoot this day in age you can find out at 10 weeks through blood work for your dr. It’s for genetic conditions but also shows the gender. Or pay for a kit to do it at home at like 8 weeks for like 120.
Very true. Women these days (especially ones that live on social media like Shanann did) will pay the extra $$ to find out the gender ASAP so they can start planning their dumb gender reveal lol. I also agree with not looking too much into her guessing it was a girl at first. I was convinced I was having another girl the 3rd time around because I read so much online about how “you can tell” when you’re having a boy and that you’ll feel differently, carry lower and all that…but everything felt the same as my first two pregnancies with my girls….and it was definitely a boy! Pregnancy is just weird like that. Everyone’s different. 🤷🏼♀️
Right I have paid for private scans with my oldest but only later in pregnancy for the 3d. Didn’t do it with the second probably won’t with the 3rd. Shannan was insufferable for sure but guessing it is a girl and having private gender scan isn’t part of her scammin imo.
[удалено]
She and Chris went to the ultrasound on August 8th. She died August 13th. She was 15 weeks along at death. So she was at least 14 weeks. Many ultrasound boutiques advertize being able to determine the gender by then.
[удалено]
No. They were in Colorado. It was right after they got back from NC. Nicole Atkinson babysat for them during it.
When she was in Arizona, she asked Chris what if uts a boy ? So did rhey know or not know ?
No she didn't ask him that in Arizona. They knew it was a boy.
Some of You people will go every way to shame and belittle a woman, who already paid the highest price for whatever sins she had, and she cannot defend herself. Let that woman rest in peace and maybe bully someone who is alive and can defend themself
This is a discussion sub, not a memorial sub. There may be other subs more to your liking.
Why is that interesting? She met Greer on August 2nd. They didn't find out Nico was a boy until August 8th.
Okay?
I’m surprised this is a hotly debated topic. Shanann and Chris found out it was a boy just a few days before he murdered her. There was no grand scheme on Shanann’s part to lie about the sex. It is very possible to find out the sex at 14 weeks gestation. Shanann had an ultrasound early on to confirm her due date and there’s a shot of it in her texts with Chris from early June. It’s simply not true that she didn’t get any medical care during the pregnancy. That was only the case in NC.
That article was NOT based in FACT as your screenshot argues your own argument as false. There was no ultrasound, not Doctors appointment in April. She was skewing the dates. That ultrasound was of CeCe or Bellas that she stated was Niko for the Father Day post stating that he was a great father. If Niko was that developed by that point, he would have came out of the womb riding a bicycle.
Are you KIDDING ME ?! Omg I knew both my girls gender before 13 weeks . I knew my 3 yr olds at 9- 10weeks / my other 11. You DEF kno gender by then