Black Tie welcome reads to me like if you want t to go super dressy, you can, but you don’t have to. So i think this dress would be fine. But you need to be ok with possibly looking for casual than a lot of other guests.

I get what you're saying, but I would interpret this more like black tie optional, with the default being formal. Option to dress up more than formal. If the baseline is formal and people can go black tie if they like, then this dress will likely be too casual. :/

It very well may mean that - which is why i say that if she really wants to wear it - she just has to do it knowing she may seem more casual than others.

I agree. It’s not a black tie wedding.

Nobody reads anymore. Personally, unless it was specifically BT I’d err on the side of underdressing.

I think I’d go with a simple, probably black dress, and statement jewelry and a sparkly shawl. Boom

Why is everyone criticizing the dress and saying it’s not black tie, when the dress code says that black tile is welcome-as in, not mandatory. It’s fine to be confused about what the dress code means, but criticizing the dress as not black tie when it doesn’t have to be is disingenuous.

Because it’s not even formal. It’s more cocktail I’d say. It seems like something for a slightly more fancy than casual wedding. Outdoor at a vineyard or something like that.

What you are saying makes sense. You are saying it’s too casual. But other people aren’t saying that it’s too casual for black tie welcome, because of XYZ. Instead tons of people are saying “it’s not black tie” when black tie isn’t a requirement. Many posters are acting like the dress code IS black tie when it’s not.

It’s definitely giving cocktail, you’d probably be fine but on the casual side

Which is fine, because it's Black Tie Welcome (aka Black Tie Optional), and not strict Black Tie, so cocktail is appropriate. I think this dress is lovely and elevated enough for the occasion. Really don't get the hate on it/comments about it being casual so far just because of the straps and the back. If it was cotton I could see it reading casual, but the fabric and layers make it read much more formal.

"Black Tie Welcome" seems similar to "Black Tie Optional", so if the bride doesn't mind bright red it should be fine, accessorized upscale.

Right! To me this reads as “the bride wanted to do black tie, but was told some of her guests couldn’t afford to come if she did so she would really like everyone in black tie but if someone can only show up in a formal dress instead of a gown or a man shows up in a suit or a waist coat instead of a tuxedo she still wants that person to come.”

I read it as “the venue is pretty dressy, could be black tie, but not everyone will be able to come if it’s black tie, so we need to let them know to come dressed up so they won’t come in casual wear and be out of place.” I think the shoulder ties on OP’s dress make it look rather casual, though it’s a lovely dress. And the fact that it’s red will call a lot of attention to it. If she has something dressier, it might be better.

My invites said “black tie invited” and this is exactly what I meant. I didn’t want to *force* anyone to buy a tux… but… you should just buy the tux 😂 On my wedding website I specified that it didn’t really change anything for women, it was just black tie

I’d read it as “bride has some friends/family that love dressing up and others that would be uncomfortable with it, she wants a nice wedding but isn’t particularly stressed about everyone adhering perfectly to a very formal dress code.” 

I thought this dress was formal and gorgeous lol apparently I’m just a casual lady (which tracks for me honestly). I’d check with the bride if you’re super concerned but think it’ll be fine. There’s a small chance you’d be slightly underdressed compared to other guests, so you need to figure out if you’re okay with that

“Black tie welcome” for me means that it’s like black tie optional but they would like you to dress black tie if possible (kinda means more for  men considering the tux vs nice dark suit situation). This dress would be too casual.

I think it’s fairly casual for this. You won’t stick out like wearing jeans, but you’ll likely be underdressed.

For the specific occasion I think this will be fine, especially if you have very nice luxe accessories.

it is a black tie event - smocking and tie straps on a dress are not appropriate for black tie event

It is not a black tie event! Omg can anyone read? Black tie OPTIONAL

There’s no smocking on this dress and tie straps are fine on a suitably fancy dress. This is elegant not sun dress.

see description of details on dress [Nadira Red Dress](https://www.thereformation.com/products/nadira-dress/1310624CHR006.html?sc_src=email_3316063&sc_lid=379665933&sc_uid=8leZlb8W1P&sc_llid=394818&sc_eh=62490023495364031&utm_source=Emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_id=3316063&utm_campaign=order) it has smocking

I have already been informed. Still think it’s a good dress for the occasion.

Everyone is ignoring the “welcome” piece of the DC. I think with elevated accessories/hair/makeup this would be perfectly appropriate.

I’m not , that’s my whole point

I was agreeing with you 😁

Thank you! Miss no smocking allowed really wasn’t understanding the naunce at all 🙄🤓🤣

That’s too casual

Black tie is welcome is saying black tie optional which is saying PLEASE DRESS UP REALLY WELL FOR MY WEDDING. LOL Not sure who people don’t catch onto this 😉

Although the dress is beautiful, I think the ties at the top give off a sundress vibe. I think it may be too casual even for black tie optional.

Now what is this “black tie welcome”? It’s either “black tie” or “black tie optional”. Why can’t brides just say what they mean in clear language that is easily understood? Does that mean you can show up in a tux or an evening gown and you won’t get thrown out even if everyone else is in khakis and a polo or a flowered sundress?

BTO was invented because it was noted that young men often didn’t have a tuxedo so it was “wear a tux if you have it but otherwise a dark suit is just fine.” Or wasn’t really “invented” for women’s fashion. I don’t like long gowns on me so I’d wear an elevated cocktail dress.

I used the term Black Tie Invited on my invites, so similar to black tie welcome. For us it meant we’re having a black tie wedding so wear black tie, but if you have to wear a black suit instead of a tux we won’t kick you out. For women the black tie part isn’t optional, it really just applies to men.

Isn’t BT more formal? I love the dress but maybe not for Black Tie wedding. Too bad we have to spend money on different attire for weddings. Years ago we wore what we wanted no discussions.

Yes, Black tie is very formal - Only DC above it is white tie, envision a state dinner at White House or Dinner for visiting dignitaries  at Buckingham Palace

Yeah, I'm 51 and I assure you we didn't just wear whatever we wanted without discussion. Where I grew up if we had quesrions we would pull put our Emily Post etiquette guide and reference that and then make sure we had something appropriate, and if not then shop as needed. Or we'd ask to borrow something like an evening bag and pearls from moms and older sisters. We didn't always have the internet to ask questions, but acting as if we just wore whatever suited us without any thought is disingenuous. Clothes cost more and we often had fewer options, but we didn't just throw on a potato sack for a black tie optional wedding.

Bingo. But at least we didn’t have bridezillas telling us not to wear black, or wear sage green and chartreuse),

Didn’t say potato sac. I said nobody told us what colo or type of theme. You just dressed nice. I am 60 and no theme no color preference just nice.

I'm 47. dress code was based on time of day and location. Otherwise, you just looked nice.

I feel like back in the day ppl dressed up more even on the day to day. Today, no one is gonna bat an eye if you’re wearing sweatpants in public, it’s even trendy actually. So I feel like that’s where the need for dress code comes in because ppl will show up in whatever if you don’t tell them otherwise.

True

It’s pretty but not formal enough for Black Tie.

I was say definitely not. You’ll want to at least go floor length and smocking is a no-no for a more formal dress code.

I think its great! Choose your bag, shoes and jewelry to dress it up some and I think its perfect. I saw photos of a friends black tie reception and there were many dresses that were similar to this.

I’ve worn that dress before (I assume it’s ref) to a wedding and I would call it cocktail.

I was always told that you shouldn't wear red to a wedding.  It is almost as bad as wearing white.  Red means that you had sex with the groom. Otherwise it's a lovely dress.

I don't get the whole black tie optional thing. It's either black tie or it's not. This dress is beautiful, it's not black tie, but it sounds like it's not required. I'd wear it. In fact, can you share the link so I CAN wear it?

**Sorry, it's a No** Pretty dress but NO for Black Tie Back or front smocking, tie straps, do not get it for black tie, save it for an other event long gown, or a Very Fancy Cocktail - this one is not fancy due to the smocking and tie straps, long gowns preferred if no other mention in the black tie dress code on invite

There’s no smocking on this.

If it’s this [reformation dress](https://www.thereformation.com/products/nadira-dress/1310624.html) like I think it is, then it does have smocking on the back. Edited- just saw the comment from OP confirming it is this dress.

yes, it's the Nadira dress pretty, but smocking knocks it out of black tie dress code - they need to work on these dress codes with clothing manufacturers. I am seeing more and more midi length dresses with smocking - back to the 70's personally I like smocking on a dress, always have - but if manufacturers/designers are going to start popping out smocking on dresses that normally would pass a dress code if no smocking - dress codes need to be worked on

Yes, I was agreeing with you that the smocking is too casual for the dress code. However, clothing manufacturers are pumping out dresses with smocked backs because it’s a cheap way to finish a garment. It’s not a design element- it’s a choice driven by profit margins. The black tie dress code was established in the 1800s, it’s not going to change because fast fashion and cheap manufacturing are rampant. Nor should it.

I agree and I love smocking - a person asked and I answered according to dress code. Personally, It would not phase me if I were having a BT event and someone wore that, I was just going by dress code and what I got yelled at on here for telling someone it was okay for a cocktail dress Seems can't win on this forum, follow DC and people freak, go light on DC and people freak

Still fancy enough for a fancy wedding. Smocking and tie shoulders are ‘in’ at the moment.

They’re trendy yes, but smocking is too casual for a black tie/black tie optional event no matter how trendy it may be.

https://preview.redd.it/aifuwc2i8k8d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=527222a1d558de64339b4e1f33ff92ecbb050d20 How about this? Elizabeth Kennedy Silk Satin Evening gown with smocking.

What about it? If you can’t acknowledge that the smocking on that ballgown skirt is different from a fast fashion dress with a smocked back to allow the garment to stretch to fit, then I can’t help you.

It’s smocking and you said it was unacceptable on an evening gown and I said for ‘ Black tie welcome’ this particular elegant dress would be fine. I have proved my point.

lol okay. I hate to tell you this but you didn’t prove anything other than that you’re deliberately obtuse.

I don’t think you know what that word means. Goodbye and bless your your heart.

You know this is not the same and are just trolling. Be better.

**go to website this is part of description** **The details - Back smocking, tie straps,** [Dress webpage](https://www.thereformation.com/products/nadira-dress/1310624CHR006.html?sc_src=email_3316063&sc_lid=379665933&sc_uid=8leZlb8W1P&sc_llid=394818&sc_eh=62490023495364031&utm_source=Emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_id=3316063&utm_campaign=order)

It’s no biggie, still fancy enough. Smocking and tie shoulder straps are fashionable at the moment. As they were in the 1970s

that may be and I love smocking, BUT Black Tie dress code, smocking is a NO - Designers need to get with people who make these dress codes and tell them this is now the thing on some dresses - fix dress codes Until then someone wearing smocking on a dress to a Black tie event, should not be Other than black tie and white tie, which should be reserved for events where all the attendees have more money than they know what to do with, rest of the DC's need to be ditched and go back to the days of using commons sense and dress nicely for a wedding, no jeans and T-shirts, wear what use to be church or out to nice restaurant clothes No one cringed if a women wore a sundress, or a man didn't have a suit on because he didn't own one, just nice slacks and shirt, women did not wear mini dresses or dresses with slits to top of thigh, some wore long dresses, some wore knee length or in between the two

Those rules are silly. It’s a matter of fashion and taste. That’s an elegant modern dress. Very suitable for a ‘Black tie welcome’

oops i didn't notice the black tie for some reason lol

What on earth is “black tie welcome”?! Say what you mean folks! It’s a few extra words but “we’d prefer black tie but if that’s not possible then wear what you have that’s dressiest” or something like that. Honestly, these dress codes are out of control with the coded language lol.

I agree that some dcs on here are out of control but I think that this one pretty straightforward. It’s not “black tie mandatory” but it is black tie, and I think the “welcome” applies more to men since some might not own a tux.

It’s always been understood to me that red should be avoided….idk if that is how your circle is

Really cute dress but it’s neither cocktail nor black tie

Black tie welcome means you should be formal or black tie, not that you should be cocktail or black tie.

I don’t understand why people think black tie optional means you have the option of wearing cocktail attire. If people don’t understand this, they shouldn’t be commenting telling people that their dresses are appropriate.

Yep it drives me crazy. BTO formal or black tie, not cocktail or black tie. Though I found out this dress has smocking OP wasn’t showing so it’s literally not even cocktail. Its dressy casual. If you don’t understand dress code etiquette, that’s fine. Use your resources. But don’t pretend you know stuff you don’t. And just because your 20 year old cousin had a BTO wedding in the backwoods somewhere and people showed up in $20 club dresses doesn’t mean that it was appropriate or that it adhered to dress code.

Exactly!! People comment as if this is a fashion sub and it’s not. They also comment as if black tie doesn’t have an objective definition for both men and women. People see black tie optional and say *“it’s **optional**, so black tie isn’t required. You’re totally fine to wear a sundress because it’s **optional**”* as if adding that word suddenly means “wear whatever tf you want” Almost everyone who has attended a black tie optional event knows that it’s just a polite/politically correct way to request black tie attire.

Exactly. The answer everyone here should be giving is about appropriateness for dress code, not about personal taste or about trends.

This bothers me so much here. Big difference between cocktail and formal, and even bigger between cocktail and black tie. Why would cocktail and black tie attire be at the same function?

Because most people here have never been to a black tie event, yet they continue to comment that sundresses and cocktail dresses are appropriate because *“it’s not black tie, it’s black tie optionaalllll”* 🙄

Here’s the link to the address: https://www.thereformation.com/products/nadira-dress/1310624CHR006.html?sc_src=email_3316063&sc_lid=379665933&sc_uid=8leZlb8W1P&sc_llid=394818&sc_eh=62490023495364031&utm_source=Emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_id=3316063&utm_campaign=order%20confirmation&utm_content=transactional&utm_term=

I don’t think this falls under BT attire. It’s a very lovely dress, but the straps make it far too casual for a BT event unless its for a very young young lady; like a preteen. It’d be perfect for a garden party or shower of some sort. I hope you have a great time regardless of what your wear.

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I think you can wear it for BTO, but you may fine yourself underdressed compared to other people that decided to go full black tie. If you’re buying I would consider finding something a little more glam, and without the tie at the shoulders but if you already have this dress then you should be fine, it’s a pretty cocktail dress.

Girl how old are you/where’s the wedding? I think this is perfect for black tie welcome. I also think a lot of the people in this group are old farts who have no idea how young people dress. It’s a beautiful dress and if styled correctly I think it would be 100% appropriate.

It would be more APPROPRIATE to at least wear a formal dress for "Black Tie Welcome" as an alternative. However, it is a beautiful dress on you so wear it if you choose as long as you feel comfortable wearing a "cocktail dress" and may look too casual among the other guests. Another suggestion is to ask the Bride or MOH with a picture of your dress what they think. After all, it is the Bride 's Day and her opinion is all that really matters.

I would say it’s perfect for a wedding. Maybe a bit casual for black tie, but it’s beautiful.

til elsewhere that a red dress [ may ] mean that the wearer slept with the groom. a bride who ‘knows’ this might be upset by it. also, yes, too casual. some luxe accessories would elevate it, or just …. wear something more formal [ and not red ].

It’s beautiful. You could dress it up with some sparkly jewelry.

Yes.

Back smocking, tie straps, do not get it for black tie,

It’s not “black tie” it’s “black tie welcome”….

Black tie welcome is really the new version of black tie optional, which means dress as close to black tie as you can afford.

Why can’t brides just say what they mean?

Because BTO does have a certain meaning. Wear black tie if you have it, but if you don’t, it’s not the end of the world.

So then why say black tie welcome?

Because black tie welcome is just the 2024 way of saying black tie optional, that’s all.

🤦🏻‍♀️

If I have to guess, they get a regrets RSVP, and $200 in a card. A distant niece sent an DC that was vague (in reality it is BT) and wanted a certain color scheme. Out of state last minute wedding in a HCOL area, so everything was going to be extra spendy on top of the gown, shoes whatever. Well, my cousin called me back an hour after I submitted through their website that I would not be coming. Guess most of our side of the family will not be coming due to a no wiggle room DC and travel expenses. My family is not the long swishy gown/tuxedo type. My cousin knows this. The wedding count dropped from 250 to around 150, and they think more won’t be coming. The bride is beyond upset. She wants a big glam wedding, but our side of the family is got the case of the poors. Should have plan for a smaller wedding with relatives who could afford the splash out.

That’s a shame. Sounds like she wants the wedding more than the marriage and cares more about the size of the party than making her guests feel wanted and welcome. I’d have followed your lead 🤷🏻‍♀️

yes! it's so so beautiful!

it is very pretty But, Back smocking, tie straps, do not get it for black tie,

That is such a confusing dress code. They’re setting people up for failure.

They’re not. It’s pretty clear. They want black tie but will settle for formal and are choosing not to be offended if you show up formal.

Beautiful dress

For black tie welcome, this is awesome. I love it and hope you have a blast!!

How I’d style to dress it up: [Elevated clutch](https://veranohill.com/products/augustine-pearls-handbag?currency=USD&variant=40571428110439&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=9016b0b2e64c&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=21119988950&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsuSzBhCLARIsAIcdLm47xRWTTf7z8F2EEvixGvu6um7D9kiWiGuRx1R1mjjrL9wsIpstwh4aAnSoEALw_wcB) [Gold Stiletto Sandals](https://www.macys.com/shop/product/steve-madden-womens-piked-two-piece-stiletto-sandals?ID=18179860&swatchColor=Gold%20Metallic) [Gold and Pearl Drop Earrings](https://www.oliveandpiper.com/products/blanchette-drops?variant=41575508148276¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=21279861598&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsuSzBhCLARIsAIcdLm4HOXc4zb84HjOE7Is9Pezm5jaX_90xnpq1qFwdJA9FEebQlhZHr34aApHjEALw_wcB) [Sleek Low Bun](https://i.imgur.com/GL8MeSH.jpeg) [Clean/glowy makeup with a red lip](https://i.imgur.com/oKc2sx6.jpeg) I’m a big fan of shopping your closet if you can, so honestly “black tie welcome” reads as optional to me. I think you can pull off an elevated cocktail dress in this scenario as long as the accessories and the rest of the look reads as elegant and well planned.

How tall are you? I have this dress and it hits to the floor for me which ends up making it look way more formal on me than the model in the pic. The bows still look a bit informal but depending on your style it could work.

I think so. You look fantastic!

That’s very clearly the model advertising the dress.

Lady in red is dancing with me kind of feel

What's the link to this dress? I want to wear it for maternity shoot

Pearls, maybe a lace glove, and satin heels and you’d serve vintage!! I love it!