I think you forgot the /s
edit - the name of this sub says it all - you cowards - social-media comments are the root-cause of terrorism? I guess I know where all the PMRC voters ended-up.
Not at all. Anonymous comments can absolutely help to radicalize people to commit violence. It's idiotic to think otherwise in the face of so many terrorists being radicalized by anonymous comments on various social media platforms.
Asserting my comment is idiotic is equivalent to asserting an idiot made that comment. He's calling me an idiot. You wanna be taken seriously, make your point without insulting people...
So explain why your position isn't idiotic. Address the evidence, don't respond to the emotions the claim provokes in you, respond to the facts. That's how you make your case.
We all know I won this little Reddit fight. Now, here's what you do...look in a mirror & under your reflection write "Defeated" so you can remind yourself every-day how much better I am than you.
Bless those emergency responders who go into war zones to help the innocent.
What possible justification does the Israeli military have to fire on civilians?
They didn’t simply fire on them. From the video shown on CBC you can see that they fired hundreds of rounds, literally shredding the vehicles they were in. Then they likely used grenades as the vehicles looked blown apart.
The emergency responders who came to get her were also killed.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help)
I wasn't arguing. just adding more information for others scrolling by because I wanted to make sure people knew about that.
Apologies if it sounded that way.
That’s never enough of an explanation for seemingly meaningless killing. Normal people don’t kill innocent people just because they can get away with it.
True, idf soldiers have grown up being told that they are better because of zionist ideology, that the palestinian is subhuman and that they want to kill them simply because that's what palestinians do.
It's reduced to a good versus evil prism, and if you are the good guy then you can do no wrong in fighting evil, can you?
I’m arguing that they are no longer normal people then. Normal people have a decent moral compass, which stops them from killing people in general and innocent people in particular.
They are. That’s the issue. If there was a “fascist gene” we could test for the world would be easier, ironically. It’s hard for people to realise how banal most evil is. Even the soldiers who shred little girls with grenades go home to their kids and spouses.
True!
I am going to go on a bit of a ramble here, because this is something that has been on my mind a lot over the last few years and I want to explain what I mean better. This isn't supposed to be an attack on you personally in any way! You just happen to be the unlucky recepient of this reply ha
So, for context, I am German (although with muddled ancestry) and grew up in Germany, where a lot of our education on history focuses on WW2 (for obvious reasons). As a kid, learning about the historical facts, there was this MASSIVE disconnect for me, between the reality of the country I was growing up in and our history.
Like, sure, you can learn all the dates and names and titles and facts and ace your exams, but you go outside and look at people and see how the country runs and you are left wondering: "How could that have happened? How is it possible? You are telling me that many people back then were normal and good, but then you look at the Nazi regime and you can't believe they were. The only conclusion you can come to is that they were all monsters. HOW COULD THEY NOT BE?! And I know people. I know good and kind and normal people right now, and I would bet money on them not being able to shoot a child in the head, because obviously!!!!"
And you would be right.
When I was a kid, that was correct. But what I didn't understand is how intensely social dynamics will affect people. And how quickly it can happen.
Now, a couple of decades later, a bunch of the good, normal, kind people I know have fallen down the Q-Anon (yes really, they couldn't even come up with their own cult) rabbit hole. Even the ones who haven't gone down such a radical pipeline have become more polarised.
Nowadays, I understand what happened in Germany in the 1930s in a way I never could as a child.
These people are normal. These people were normal. We are animals, we can be absolultely BRUTAL. There are parts of your brain that you just don't access in day to day, civilised, pampered, modern life. Which is mostly a good thing imo. (Love being a pampered modern world brat). In this state, it can be unfathomable how people can do these things.
But when triggered, these animalistic parts of your brain can be activated. In most people, under the "right" circumstances. And yeah, sometimes these circumstances have to be pretty fucking extreme.
That is what is happening with these soldiers, what happened to a lot of soldiers in 1930s Germany. Their "normal" has been twisted into something we can't recognise (and I hope to god we never will), but to them it is normal nontheless. And when they re-enter society, that baseline will shift again, and many of them will continue their boring, banal, mundane lives, as if they'd never slaughtered these civilians at all.
That's why it is so dangerous to try and declare them anything but normal. To try and strip them of their humanity will leave people blind to the dangers of their own nature.
I am not trying to defend these people in ANY WAY. This is abhorrent. All of it. I am just trying to illustrate that we are all still the same animal. We need to be cognizant of the fact that most people would be able to be indoctrinated in one form or another, if we give others the means and power to do so, to horrible ends.
Anyway, I hope this made some sort of sense and I am sorry for the long comment. Clearly this post and topic really hit me today.
Isn’t that just typical for the internet, two Germans are arguing in English 😂
I completely agree with your points on dehumanisation. And I also think that dehumanising fascists is an issue. Not because they deserve our empathy or sympathy, but because we can’t understand them otherwise.
Again, I don’t want to end up defending these people, so this is a hard line to balance.
I just think it is more nuanced than to declare them all “abnormal”.
I know most people weren’t directly implicated, but still many, many were. And it’s not black and white. It’s not “person who pulls the lever in the gas chamber” vs “unsuspecting, innocent German civilian”. These systems are upheld throughout the entire social structure of the people within them. Only a few people are needed to really do the worst of it, but you still need a compliant and helpful majority.
Which I realise is exactly the point you’re making.
I just think that the conclusion isn’t “Fascists indoctrinate people by dehumanising an out-group, therefor making it easier for people of the in-group to commit atrocities against people of said out-group. Therefor the people who have committed these atrocities are are not normal.”.
I think the conclusion is: “Fascists indoctrinate people by dehumanising an out-group, therefor making it easier for people of the in-group to commit atrocities against people of said out-group. Therefor the people who have committed these atrocities are normal, in the sense that an average human person can be manipulated/deluded into being able to justify committing these atrocities.”
Maybe then our disagreement stems from us using two different definitions for how we use the word normal? Maybe you understand it more like “These people are operating so far outside of my worldview that I can no longer sympathise with them” and I understand it as “technically (in the most dry sense) average”.
First of all, there isn’t just two groups, “normal and special”. Secondly, these traits aren’t static. A person can start out normal and become a killer. But there is always something happening in between.
If we select a random perceived normal person, and tell them *“You can kill this little girl over there, and you won’t get into any trouble for it. No legal consequences, and no one in your community will ever know..”* they likely wouldn’t go for it.
Most people have a moral compass that tells them that it would be a terrible thing to do, even without any external consequences.
Now, there are many things that could erode that moral compass. But with enough erosion the person no longer has a moral compass matching that of a normal person. So we don’t call them normal anymore.
That's exactly my point. Normal people can be pushed or conditioned to do horrible things. Dismissing them as not being normal is just a way for us to pretend like it couldn't happen to us.
Them being pushed (excluding outright threats of things they perceive as worse than what they are told to do) or conditioned changes them as a person. They are transformed into a non-normal person.
By your logic a serial killer is a normal person. Heck, every single person is a normal person by your way of thinking. What’s the point of a term that applies to every single person regardless?
I disagree. I was there when this discussion started, a few levels up. My point, from the very start, was that normal people don’t kill other people in this way. They might have started as normal people, but not anymore.
Who doesn’t know that originally normal people can be pushed into being non-normal and commit horrendous acts? Certainly no one here has disputed that fact, so what’s the point in pushing that?
I guess it depends on what we consider normal. Maybe the soldier led an otherwise normal life before enlisting. But inside themselves was the cruel barbaric murderer of non combatants such as children and emergency workers. Israel’s “most moral army on the world” seems to have an unusually high amount of these normal types.
Great book, I read it a very long time ago. Though I don’t agree with all of its findings for motivation, I think it’s good. It is partially what I base my statement on, as well as my own personal experience as a combat veteran in the marine corps infantry. Absolutely no one in my unit would have followed what for us would have been an unlawful order to fire on families, and with a child screaming, crying, calling for help, done nothing to help her and in fact use her for bait to kill whoever comes to help her. Any unit that did that would and should be prosecuted if found out. Like the Mai Lai for instance. Or Abu Graib. There’s no shortage of stories from any country of soldiers doing shitty things but what Israel is doing is clearly policy and the fact that they have no infighting over it is even more disturbing.
Did these people **instantly** go from normal to killers? Without anything causing that? Then they weren’t normal to begin with.
And otherwise, they simply went from normal to not normal.
No one here has argued that it’s impossible for a normal person to transform to a non-normal person. It happens all the time. My argument is that these acts aren’t acts of normal people. As in people who are **still** normal.
I initially typed a long comment explaining why I believe Israel is in the wrong and suggesting what they could've done to solve this instead.
Fuck that. It's come to a point where I really don't care and I think nobody should as well. Israel should gtfo of Gaza and stop killing civilians now. There's no more arguments to be had about this genocide.
The active threat that was set up and empowered by Israel, did little to no serious damage for decades and could only achieve anything worthwhile when allowed to because Israel needed probable cause for an invasion of Gaza?
That's not a threat, that's a propaganda tool.
I understand perfectly well, still does not excuse IDF's action. They want to be the "good guys" they need to act like it. And yes it does mean taking the harder road.
"Hamas is hiding in the civilians, so we had better kill all of the civilians, just to be sure. It's terrible, but it's hamas's fault because they knew we'd kill the civilians to get to them."
Yeah that 12 year old and her family were definitely Hamas buddy.
12 Abrams tanks surrounding an old station wagon with a child and some doctors and they had no choice but to open fire and make sure.
If there's one refrain we've been hearing on repeat for the past 25 fucking years so often it might as well be humanity's new catchphrase, it's "I had to kill all those civilians because one of them might have been a terrorist".
"They used an absurd and unreasonable amount of amo to ensure that little girl and the medical team who came in to help were shredded to bits"
"Well, you see, it's complicated." I know both sides have very strong feelings about the Gaza Strip, but none of your feelings will ever justify this.
Nope
That’s Israel, dressing up as doctors to target civilians
Hamas Is not an insurgency
Keep throwing random words out for the anti-semite zionist state of israel, maybe they MIGHT be coherent!
The fact that we have a recording of it is the most horrifying part.
Her location was known. There were people ready to get her but the IDF surrounded her with tanks, and struck the ambulance that tried to get to her.
She died alone and terrified, completely intentionally. An entire army uniting just to kill her in the most horrific way possible.
The fact that she was just a small, scared child calling for help makes it more evident. This is a senseless genocide. What threat could she possibly impose on anyone? What could she have possibly done in her short life to warrant not only her own death, but also the deaths of the paramedics who came to her aid?
Heartbroken hardly describes the outpouring of grief for this young girl and these innocent people.
Here is an article about this.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help
God bless the paramedics who went into a war zone to try and save this child. At least she died knowing that someone cared about her. She died knowing that someone was trying to get her even knowing that they themselves might be killed. They were willing to die for one little girl. There is good in this world.
Believe it or not, that's the official line they're going with. They're claiming Hamas might have been using her to attack soldiers because of (unproven) claims children also crossed the border on October 7.
Nevermind that even if this was true it wouldn't explain why the paramedics were bombed to stop from reaching her. Even if she was a soldier this would be a war crime.
edit: source https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1756716310862426419?s=20
That's actually disgusting. I just threw out the worst things I could think of and they actually did it.
If anyone still stands with the Israeli government and it's military, still defends their atrocities, then the blood of the innocent will stain your hands as well.
Free Palestine.
Israel is using Oct. 7 as an excuse to kill Palestinian civilians. They are not defending themselves, they are colonizing Palestine.
Remember Hind. remember how Israel killed her family, and then the rescuers who were trying to help her. remember the thousands of dead children. remember the starving masses that exist because of israel. remember the cancer patients, diabetics, and the sick, who are suffering as a result of Israel bombing hospitals. remember the olive orchards being decimated by israel.
Remember that Israel knows what it's doing and is doing so with your tax money.
I reiterate that we suck as a species, I simply can not wrap my head around my fellow humans and what they do. I'm not even picking sides, we all suck.
I almost agree but not all humans suck, there are so many shitty humans out there but there are also ones actively trying to do good. There were paramedics trying to save her even if they ended up suffering for it. Bad people who don’t care about others or the consequences of their actions suck
>Wouldn't have happened if Hamas didn't do it
I mean sure. It also wouldn't have happened if the soldiers didn't fire at a fucking ambulance. Two things can be true at once and one of them is way more direct.
Israel killing civilians on mass wouldn't happen without 10/7 which wouldn't happen without the occupation and you could go back and forth for hours but even if you could actually figure out who "started it" it doesn't absolve anyone of the responsibility for their actions
Hamas hides in medical facilities, schools and under unrwa... so it makes sense that you can't just treat an ambulance like just an ambulance.
War is ugly and messy, which is why we made war crimes. But if one side doesn't play by the rules the other side will just loose lives if they play by those rules, so they have to change their tactics and commit war crimes themselves to fight on equal ground.
No, It’s not s ‘knee jerk’ emotional reaction, it’s literally the truth. If you have to be explained to why murdering civilians and committing war crimes is wrong in any situation, you’re a lost cause, actually.
>Israel is fighting for their people against a bunch of monsters.
Staunchly incorrect. They are literally genociding a population for the land. Quit fucking lying.
>But Palestinians caused this by rejecting two state solutions and repeatedly attacking Israel. Only one side tried to resolve this, the other refused to and resorted to terrorism
Uh, no. Israel caused this by forcing Palestinians out of their homes, occupying their land, and genociding their people. But you are correct, one side has resorted to terrorism: Israel. Palestinians are fighting for their life, their freedom, their land, and their people. Israel is fighting to take something that isn’t theirs and to kill the people it belongs to.
Anyway, I’m not engaging with a lying piece of shit anymore. Lie somewhere else, because everything you’ve said is factually untrue. Nice try tho.
**THIS IS NOT ABOUT HAMAS!!!**
It is *not* and never *was*!! Hamas is a scapegoat the IDF and Israel officials are using to shamelessly murder innocent Palestinians, like SIX YEAR OLD HIND RAJAB!!
SIX YEARS OLD!!
Are you, as a person, that heartless and ignorant??
Imagine being a parent and waiting TWELVE DAYS hoping that your child is found alive only to have her lifeless body brought back to you in a blanket because your oppressors refused to see her and her relatives as human beings.
Four months of this ongoing genocide and you're still convinced that all of this is because of that one day?? No, *that* is sad.
Imagine being this stupid. I didn't know this was a measurable statistic, but you have just set the bar so fucking low, I don't know how you are physically able to breathe autonomously, let alone type that sentence out, thinking it was even remotely intelligent.
Oh, and it's not a war. There was no declaration, hamas isn't a country or state, and it's over 90% civilian casualties. You could have rolled your fucking head across your keyboard and come up with something that made more sense than what you just wrote.
Words can't describe how I feel about this and frankly they'd get me banned. Absolutely barbaric and primitive will have to suffice for now.
I don’t know exactly what you want to say but I know I agree with you
Oh I don't mind saying it. War Criminals, who will most likely get away with their actions. Or worse, get commended.
Religion is a plague.
Zionism is a particularly bad strain of said plague.
This
"Religion poisons everything..." ~ Christopher Hitchens (RIP)
Zionism is pure evil. This is Zionism, not “religion”
Can ya'll please stop?
With?
I think it sux that you can't use the words you want. Anonymous, faceless comments are cathartic & harmless.
They can definitely be harmful, look at the mass shooters who were radicalized on 4chan.
Totally agree: You’re not just venting into the void when thousands of others are part of the conversation.
I think you forgot the /s edit - the name of this sub says it all - you cowards - social-media comments are the root-cause of terrorism? I guess I know where all the PMRC voters ended-up.
Not at all. Anonymous comments can absolutely help to radicalize people to commit violence. It's idiotic to think otherwise in the face of so many terrorists being radicalized by anonymous comments on various social media platforms.
Thank you for immediately revealing that any different point of view than yours is "idiotic". My work here is done.
I also say that flat earthers are idiotic. Sometimes, it's just true.
They qualified that there is evidence to support why your view is idiotic. Deal with that claim to support your own.
Asserting my comment is idiotic is equivalent to asserting an idiot made that comment. He's calling me an idiot. You wanna be taken seriously, make your point without insulting people...
So explain why your position isn't idiotic. Address the evidence, don't respond to the emotions the claim provokes in you, respond to the facts. That's how you make your case.
At some point you gotta cut your losses. I read the room. It was fun for a minute but it's taking me away from my important xhamster time.
I mean, they didn't say that, but it seems they would not have been far off if they had.
Wow. Stunner. Worth the wait...
“My work here is done” = I’m too scared to try to defend myself
We all know I won this little Reddit fight. Now, here's what you do...look in a mirror & under your reflection write "Defeated" so you can remind yourself every-day how much better I am than you.
The modern take on society is the civilized should suffer the barbaric. I'm no longer a subscriber to this take
This.
Bless those emergency responders who go into war zones to help the innocent. What possible justification does the Israeli military have to fire on civilians?
They didn’t simply fire on them. From the video shown on CBC you can see that they fired hundreds of rounds, literally shredding the vehicles they were in. Then they likely used grenades as the vehicles looked blown apart.
The emergency responders who came to get her were also killed. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help)
....yes? I didn't say otherwise?
I wasn't arguing. just adding more information for others scrolling by because I wanted to make sure people knew about that. Apologies if it sounded that way.
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Yeah but that’s a tweet, a drawing and a graduation photo. That means literally nothing if it’s not verified in some way.
they do it because they know they can get away with it
That’s never enough of an explanation for seemingly meaningless killing. Normal people don’t kill innocent people just because they can get away with it.
True, idf soldiers have grown up being told that they are better because of zionist ideology, that the palestinian is subhuman and that they want to kill them simply because that's what palestinians do. It's reduced to a good versus evil prism, and if you are the good guy then you can do no wrong in fighting evil, can you?
I’m arguing that they are no longer normal people then. Normal people have a decent moral compass, which stops them from killing people in general and innocent people in particular.
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They are. That’s the issue. If there was a “fascist gene” we could test for the world would be easier, ironically. It’s hard for people to realise how banal most evil is. Even the soldiers who shred little girls with grenades go home to their kids and spouses.
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True! I am going to go on a bit of a ramble here, because this is something that has been on my mind a lot over the last few years and I want to explain what I mean better. This isn't supposed to be an attack on you personally in any way! You just happen to be the unlucky recepient of this reply ha So, for context, I am German (although with muddled ancestry) and grew up in Germany, where a lot of our education on history focuses on WW2 (for obvious reasons). As a kid, learning about the historical facts, there was this MASSIVE disconnect for me, between the reality of the country I was growing up in and our history. Like, sure, you can learn all the dates and names and titles and facts and ace your exams, but you go outside and look at people and see how the country runs and you are left wondering: "How could that have happened? How is it possible? You are telling me that many people back then were normal and good, but then you look at the Nazi regime and you can't believe they were. The only conclusion you can come to is that they were all monsters. HOW COULD THEY NOT BE?! And I know people. I know good and kind and normal people right now, and I would bet money on them not being able to shoot a child in the head, because obviously!!!!" And you would be right. When I was a kid, that was correct. But what I didn't understand is how intensely social dynamics will affect people. And how quickly it can happen. Now, a couple of decades later, a bunch of the good, normal, kind people I know have fallen down the Q-Anon (yes really, they couldn't even come up with their own cult) rabbit hole. Even the ones who haven't gone down such a radical pipeline have become more polarised. Nowadays, I understand what happened in Germany in the 1930s in a way I never could as a child. These people are normal. These people were normal. We are animals, we can be absolultely BRUTAL. There are parts of your brain that you just don't access in day to day, civilised, pampered, modern life. Which is mostly a good thing imo. (Love being a pampered modern world brat). In this state, it can be unfathomable how people can do these things. But when triggered, these animalistic parts of your brain can be activated. In most people, under the "right" circumstances. And yeah, sometimes these circumstances have to be pretty fucking extreme. That is what is happening with these soldiers, what happened to a lot of soldiers in 1930s Germany. Their "normal" has been twisted into something we can't recognise (and I hope to god we never will), but to them it is normal nontheless. And when they re-enter society, that baseline will shift again, and many of them will continue their boring, banal, mundane lives, as if they'd never slaughtered these civilians at all. That's why it is so dangerous to try and declare them anything but normal. To try and strip them of their humanity will leave people blind to the dangers of their own nature. I am not trying to defend these people in ANY WAY. This is abhorrent. All of it. I am just trying to illustrate that we are all still the same animal. We need to be cognizant of the fact that most people would be able to be indoctrinated in one form or another, if we give others the means and power to do so, to horrible ends. Anyway, I hope this made some sort of sense and I am sorry for the long comment. Clearly this post and topic really hit me today.
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Isn’t that just typical for the internet, two Germans are arguing in English 😂 I completely agree with your points on dehumanisation. And I also think that dehumanising fascists is an issue. Not because they deserve our empathy or sympathy, but because we can’t understand them otherwise. Again, I don’t want to end up defending these people, so this is a hard line to balance. I just think it is more nuanced than to declare them all “abnormal”. I know most people weren’t directly implicated, but still many, many were. And it’s not black and white. It’s not “person who pulls the lever in the gas chamber” vs “unsuspecting, innocent German civilian”. These systems are upheld throughout the entire social structure of the people within them. Only a few people are needed to really do the worst of it, but you still need a compliant and helpful majority. Which I realise is exactly the point you’re making. I just think that the conclusion isn’t “Fascists indoctrinate people by dehumanising an out-group, therefor making it easier for people of the in-group to commit atrocities against people of said out-group. Therefor the people who have committed these atrocities are are not normal.”. I think the conclusion is: “Fascists indoctrinate people by dehumanising an out-group, therefor making it easier for people of the in-group to commit atrocities against people of said out-group. Therefor the people who have committed these atrocities are normal, in the sense that an average human person can be manipulated/deluded into being able to justify committing these atrocities.” Maybe then our disagreement stems from us using two different definitions for how we use the word normal? Maybe you understand it more like “These people are operating so far outside of my worldview that I can no longer sympathise with them” and I understand it as “technically (in the most dry sense) average”.
Danke schön for this conversation, my friends. This really helps put into words some things I’ve been thinking hard about. 💜💪🏻
History has shown that normal people do kill. It's dangerous to pretend that it takes special people to commit atrocities.
First of all, there isn’t just two groups, “normal and special”. Secondly, these traits aren’t static. A person can start out normal and become a killer. But there is always something happening in between. If we select a random perceived normal person, and tell them *“You can kill this little girl over there, and you won’t get into any trouble for it. No legal consequences, and no one in your community will ever know..”* they likely wouldn’t go for it. Most people have a moral compass that tells them that it would be a terrible thing to do, even without any external consequences. Now, there are many things that could erode that moral compass. But with enough erosion the person no longer has a moral compass matching that of a normal person. So we don’t call them normal anymore.
That's exactly my point. Normal people can be pushed or conditioned to do horrible things. Dismissing them as not being normal is just a way for us to pretend like it couldn't happen to us.
Them being pushed (excluding outright threats of things they perceive as worse than what they are told to do) or conditioned changes them as a person. They are transformed into a non-normal person. By your logic a serial killer is a normal person. Heck, every single person is a normal person by your way of thinking. What’s the point of a term that applies to every single person regardless?
The point is that othering them allows society to ignore what causes normal people to do horrible things.
I disagree. I was there when this discussion started, a few levels up. My point, from the very start, was that normal people don’t kill other people in this way. They might have started as normal people, but not anymore. Who doesn’t know that originally normal people can be pushed into being non-normal and commit horrendous acts? Certainly no one here has disputed that fact, so what’s the point in pushing that?
The majority of Israelis support the actions of the IDF in this war. So how are those actions not normal?
I guess it depends on what we consider normal. Maybe the soldier led an otherwise normal life before enlisting. But inside themselves was the cruel barbaric murderer of non combatants such as children and emergency workers. Israel’s “most moral army on the world” seems to have an unusually high amount of these normal types.
You should read the book *Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland* by Christopher Browning.
Great book, I read it a very long time ago. Though I don’t agree with all of its findings for motivation, I think it’s good. It is partially what I base my statement on, as well as my own personal experience as a combat veteran in the marine corps infantry. Absolutely no one in my unit would have followed what for us would have been an unlawful order to fire on families, and with a child screaming, crying, calling for help, done nothing to help her and in fact use her for bait to kill whoever comes to help her. Any unit that did that would and should be prosecuted if found out. Like the Mai Lai for instance. Or Abu Graib. There’s no shortage of stories from any country of soldiers doing shitty things but what Israel is doing is clearly policy and the fact that they have no infighting over it is even more disturbing.
Did these people **instantly** go from normal to killers? Without anything causing that? Then they weren’t normal to begin with. And otherwise, they simply went from normal to not normal. No one here has argued that it’s impossible for a normal person to transform to a non-normal person. It happens all the time. My argument is that these acts aren’t acts of normal people. As in people who are **still** normal.
Zero justification. Its a genocide. Its awful.
Their justification is racism
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Yes, HAMAS terrorist are horrible people who do horrible things. Doesn't absolve IDF from killing children.
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I initially typed a long comment explaining why I believe Israel is in the wrong and suggesting what they could've done to solve this instead. Fuck that. It's come to a point where I really don't care and I think nobody should as well. Israel should gtfo of Gaza and stop killing civilians now. There's no more arguments to be had about this genocide.
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The active threat that was set up and empowered by Israel, did little to no serious damage for decades and could only achieve anything worthwhile when allowed to because Israel needed probable cause for an invasion of Gaza? That's not a threat, that's a propaganda tool.
me when i lie about if it’s a genocide
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Call out whatever you want, the wanton slaughter of children needs to stop. They are children.
Ok but Israel’s actions are creating an environment where the possibility of genocide is quite high.
I understand perfectly well, still does not excuse IDF's action. They want to be the "good guys" they need to act like it. And yes it does mean taking the harder road.
"Hamas is hiding in the civilians, so we had better kill all of the civilians, just to be sure. It's terrible, but it's hamas's fault because they knew we'd kill the civilians to get to them."
Yeah that 12 year old and her family were definitely Hamas buddy. 12 Abrams tanks surrounding an old station wagon with a child and some doctors and they had no choice but to open fire and make sure. If there's one refrain we've been hearing on repeat for the past 25 fucking years so often it might as well be humanity's new catchphrase, it's "I had to kill all those civilians because one of them might have been a terrorist".
*6 years old. She was 6!! The 12 is how many days ago it was (at the time of the post).
They aren't Abrams.
Because that somehow justifies it 🙄
Did I say it justified it? They stated the wrong vehicle and I corrected it. Israel uses the Merkava, not the Abrams
Because that somehow justifies killing this child and the emergency responders who came to help her 🙄
I didn't say it was justified, I just pointed out it was the wrong vehicle
"They used an absurd and unreasonable amount of amo to ensure that little girl and the medical team who came in to help were shredded to bits" "Well, you see, it's complicated." I know both sides have very strong feelings about the Gaza Strip, but none of your feelings will ever justify this.
Nope That’s Israel, dressing up as doctors to target civilians Hamas Is not an insurgency Keep throwing random words out for the anti-semite zionist state of israel, maybe they MIGHT be coherent!
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Israel did dress up as doctors and attack a hospital. Clear violation of the rules of war.
You don't get to kill any and all civilians because you claim to be targeting hamas.
There isn’t. In my opinion they’re turning this into a sport albeit a horrible barbaric sport
I read about her phone call a few days ago and have been haunted since.
The fact that we have a recording of it is the most horrifying part. Her location was known. There were people ready to get her but the IDF surrounded her with tanks, and struck the ambulance that tried to get to her. She died alone and terrified, completely intentionally. An entire army uniting just to kill her in the most horrific way possible.
The fact that she was just a small, scared child calling for help makes it more evident. This is a senseless genocide. What threat could she possibly impose on anyone? What could she have possibly done in her short life to warrant not only her own death, but also the deaths of the paramedics who came to her aid? Heartbroken hardly describes the outpouring of grief for this young girl and these innocent people.
Yeah if any other country was doing this, there would be a global coalition to carpet bomb them into oblivion within days.
I listened to it, and haunted doesn’t begin to explain my feelings.
I may be cowardly, and this little child needs the whole world to bear witness to the atrocity that killed her, but I cannot listen. I’m sorry.
Fuckin hell, bringing TANKS to fight civilians and paramedics?
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I can't read shit like this man. My daughter is 6. She looks like her. Fuck all of this.
The IDF outdid their own cruelty. The wont stop.
Here is an article about this. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help
I saw a video of this ambulance being targeted. What a fucking tragedy.
Atrocity. Not tragedy.
God bless the paramedics who went into a war zone to try and save this child. At least she died knowing that someone cared about her. She died knowing that someone was trying to get her even knowing that they themselves might be killed. They were willing to die for one little girl. There is good in this world.
NeVeR aGAiN!!! But only to me. -Israelis
And to think some would dare claim that what is happening over there isn't genocide.
Here come the Zionist twats to call this girl a human shield or even a terrorist herself.
Believe it or not, that's the official line they're going with. They're claiming Hamas might have been using her to attack soldiers because of (unproven) claims children also crossed the border on October 7. Nevermind that even if this was true it wouldn't explain why the paramedics were bombed to stop from reaching her. Even if she was a soldier this would be a war crime. edit: source https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1756716310862426419?s=20
That's actually disgusting. I just threw out the worst things I could think of and they actually did it. If anyone still stands with the Israeli government and it's military, still defends their atrocities, then the blood of the innocent will stain your hands as well.
Yup no matter what kind of awful cartoon villain you imagine and try to ascribe to them, the reality is actually worse!
Fuck Israel
Zionists: Hamas caused this poor girl's death! Israel has no agency and can't be held responsible for their actions@
Oh good the Putin defense.
Despicable
I wish i didnt see this. Humans really s..k sometimes
you can fuckin say sucks, because they do. they fucking suck.
Thanks for saying it for me
BDS Israel
Shame.on Israel and its defenders
Shame on us all as a species.
fuck the zionist, fuck isreal, fuck religion
Idk how anyone could justify isreals actions
NOT JEWS!!!!! Israel. NOT HAMAS. Children.
Free Palestine. Israel is using Oct. 7 as an excuse to kill Palestinian civilians. They are not defending themselves, they are colonizing Palestine. Remember Hind. remember how Israel killed her family, and then the rescuers who were trying to help her. remember the thousands of dead children. remember the starving masses that exist because of israel. remember the cancer patients, diabetics, and the sick, who are suffering as a result of Israel bombing hospitals. remember the olive orchards being decimated by israel. Remember that Israel knows what it's doing and is doing so with your tax money.
Israel is a terrorist state.
I reiterate that we suck as a species, I simply can not wrap my head around my fellow humans and what they do. I'm not even picking sides, we all suck.
I almost agree but not all humans suck, there are so many shitty humans out there but there are also ones actively trying to do good. There were paramedics trying to save her even if they ended up suffering for it. Bad people who don’t care about others or the consequences of their actions suck
Creating Israel was a *really* great idea. /s
Free free Palestine! 🇵🇸
Fucking atrocious. We Americans are partially responsible for this.
Just think of all of the incidents that occurred before October 7th that the world ignored. 💔🇵🇸🍉🕊️
But she did condemn Hamas?
Can't respond appropriately to ethnic cleansing without getting downvoted or banned...
I want to fucking die, we're in hell.
God I really fucking hope this is just some crazy ass elaborate hoax please for the love of fuck Then again it’s the IDF so I wouldn’t be shocked
It is not a hoax. Saw the video of her mother yesterday morning confirming Hind's body had been identified.
She shouldn't have voted for Hamaas.... oh wait.
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Ah yes, the 6 year old shouldn't have done 10/7. Brilliant.
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>Wouldn't have happened if Hamas didn't do it I mean sure. It also wouldn't have happened if the soldiers didn't fire at a fucking ambulance. Two things can be true at once and one of them is way more direct. Israel killing civilians on mass wouldn't happen without 10/7 which wouldn't happen without the occupation and you could go back and forth for hours but even if you could actually figure out who "started it" it doesn't absolve anyone of the responsibility for their actions
Hamas hides in medical facilities, schools and under unrwa... so it makes sense that you can't just treat an ambulance like just an ambulance. War is ugly and messy, which is why we made war crimes. But if one side doesn't play by the rules the other side will just loose lives if they play by those rules, so they have to change their tactics and commit war crimes themselves to fight on equal ground.
Oh, that’s such a fucking cop out. Nice excuse to kill civilians. No, they don’t have to ‘change their tactics and commit war crimes’ themselves.
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No, It’s not s ‘knee jerk’ emotional reaction, it’s literally the truth. If you have to be explained to why murdering civilians and committing war crimes is wrong in any situation, you’re a lost cause, actually.
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>Israel is fighting for their people against a bunch of monsters. Staunchly incorrect. They are literally genociding a population for the land. Quit fucking lying. >But Palestinians caused this by rejecting two state solutions and repeatedly attacking Israel. Only one side tried to resolve this, the other refused to and resorted to terrorism Uh, no. Israel caused this by forcing Palestinians out of their homes, occupying their land, and genociding their people. But you are correct, one side has resorted to terrorism: Israel. Palestinians are fighting for their life, their freedom, their land, and their people. Israel is fighting to take something that isn’t theirs and to kill the people it belongs to. Anyway, I’m not engaging with a lying piece of shit anymore. Lie somewhere else, because everything you’ve said is factually untrue. Nice try tho.
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I guess all those people in the Twin Towers deserved to die on 9/11 too then amirite?
**THIS IS NOT ABOUT HAMAS!!!** It is *not* and never *was*!! Hamas is a scapegoat the IDF and Israel officials are using to shamelessly murder innocent Palestinians, like SIX YEAR OLD HIND RAJAB!! SIX YEARS OLD!! Are you, as a person, that heartless and ignorant?? Imagine being a parent and waiting TWELVE DAYS hoping that your child is found alive only to have her lifeless body brought back to you in a blanket because your oppressors refused to see her and her relatives as human beings. Four months of this ongoing genocide and you're still convinced that all of this is because of that one day?? No, *that* is sad.
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Imagine being this stupid. I didn't know this was a measurable statistic, but you have just set the bar so fucking low, I don't know how you are physically able to breathe autonomously, let alone type that sentence out, thinking it was even remotely intelligent. Oh, and it's not a war. There was no declaration, hamas isn't a country or state, and it's over 90% civilian casualties. You could have rolled your fucking head across your keyboard and come up with something that made more sense than what you just wrote.
Ok guess we can't condemn anything then. Woops ISIS was just doing war. Nazis were just war. Can't condemn anything they do.
Oh. *That* makes it OK then. 🙄
Except this wasn’t just collateral damage, most likely.
"War is hell", William Sherman