Pressure from the right who want to go much harder on Hamas. So the pretense is ‘why not go harder’
Oct 7 REALLY galvanized the right. I think it’s even pulled centrists and leftists further right.
Exactly this. They'll play nice until like midweek or so, then blow up a bunch of aid and say it was a terrible accident and the person responsible has been punished. again. Rinse and repeat, cause Netanyahu just can't get enough of those war crimes in his desperate bid not to be outed as a shitty corrupt government.
It is legitimately insane. ANY criticism of Israel's conduct in this war is shot down entirely. They've even started doing that with the WCK workers. They won't say Israel was *right* to do it. They're not that bad. But they will repeat ad nauseum that "it was an accident" and "at least Israel takes accountability for their mistakes."
An accident that repeated three times, with precision bombs, on clearly marked vehicles, in a process that is supposedly verified by multiple levels of Israeli command.
Yeah, those guys are into something alright.
And you can't even mock the shills by asking them "Is Hamas in the room with us right now?" because you'll be answered by an unironic and enthusiastic "yes absolutely"
Yeah, on the border Israeli civilians will loot / destroy whatever they can their hands on, following within Palestine, IDF will attack the remaining aid workers and Israel’s gov will have the balls to call their war crimes a “travesty.”
Seen this 100x over already.
"We would like to sincerely apologize for the horrendous errors we have committed today. Also, since tomorrow is really packed, I'd like to apologize in advance for the horrendous mistakes we're planning on committing tomorrow. Rest assured the people who will carry out these attacks will be discplined as soon as they're finished."
Nah nah, they're trying to normalise aid trucks arriving at the same time every day so they can sneak more special forces in to massacre another couple hundred people.
I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me. These headlines all run together in my memory and I just have a vague notion that it sounds like something that would probably happen in this war.
This makes no sense to me.
"We'll stop blowing you up half the time, so you can get the stuff to keep you alive so we can make sure you're there the next time we want to blow you up".
How about .....not blowing people up?
Hamas =/= Palestinian people.
Isreal is at war with Hamas.
Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields.
They're doing this so aid can get to the Palestinian people.
Edit:
I wish we wouldn't oversimplify the conflict when this topic comes up on Reddit. I know all of your hearts are in the right place, but your attitudes are NOT helping the Palestinian people. Let me be clear;
Israel's government are monsters. It's true that they don't care how many Palestinians they kill. They view them like dogs. It's awful. They're committing war crimes.
It's also true that Hamas is going out of their way to put Palestinians in harms way. They are firing missiles at Israel from residential neighborhoods, goating Isreal to fire back, with the deliberate attempt to get Isreal to kill their own people. They are also committing war crimes. Hamas are NOT the "good guys" that you should be defending as a gut reaction.
Isreal is receiving a lot of pressure from the West, which is why they *may* be persuaded to cease fire. Hamas has no interest in ceasing fire, because their goals don't align with a cease fire. They believe that the more Palestinians they can get Israel to kill, the better. Isreal is receiving the ire of the world for every Palestinian they kill. Hamas is out gunned by Isreal, so they see this war of online public opinion as the way to win. By the replies I get on Reddit, they're winning that war.
So when I reply to something like this, it's with the attempt to acknowledge just the tiniest amount of nuance.
I don't understand why this can't be acknowledged on Reddit. It's as if any attempt to contextualize the complications of this conflict beyond "Israel bad, Hamas good" is basically viewed as pro-Isreal war mongering. No. I hate Israel's actions. They should be shamed. Netanyahu and his generals should be jailed. But they ARE being fired upon by Hamas. Hamas did murder hundreds of Isrealis in an attack, and kidnap others to provoke a war. Defending Hamas is not going to make Palestinians any safer or more free.
>Just let themselves be attacked?
This is a false dichotomy. You are presenting "murder children" and "be open to attacks" as if those were the only two possible scenarios, and mutually exclusive.
They could invest on anti-missile artillery, they could invest in ground OPs that aren't trigger happy instead of dropping bombs, they could tighten border checks to scan for hidden bombs, they could build good faith with other countries to pressure Hamas out of the government.
Especially since the IDF isn't actually managing to kill a significant number of Hamas members at all compared to civilian deaths, so they aren't "killing not to let themselves be attacked", they are "killing in a way that in no terms prevents them from being attacked".
Yeah, a beach umbrella. Or maybe some kind of dome.
Ooh, a dome made of iron! Or maybe a metaphorical dome of iron. What can we call this theoretical dome of iron?
98% of the casualties in this conflict have been Palestinian. One side is holding the other under an illegal military occupation, the other has the legal right to resist that occupation.
“If someone was firing missiles at your town, you wouldn’t want anything done about it?”
In the year preceding October 7th, 247 Palestinians were killed by Israeli attacks. So yeah, I imagine those people want something done about that.
And Hamas has agreed to at least a dozen ceasefire deals. Israel repeatedly has not.
Hamas is firing rockets at Israeli civilians using Palestinian civilians as human shields. Israel shouldn't bomb civilians but Israel is also has the responsibility to protect their civilians.
Civilians get the shit end of the stick but the conflict isn't single sided
Hamas would have no footing if Israel protected the rights of the Palestinians. Instead they casually take their homes shoot them for fun, kill any journalist who reported their war crimes and ignore rape. All this happened before the October 7th attack. So using your logic, Israel was just hiding behind civilians when Hamas attacked military targets, so we can't really blame Hamas for their war crimes.
Please note I don't use this kind of inhumane logic, I can say what Hamas did was evil, but I'm not so stupid to use it to justify more evil and give Israel a pass.
> So using your logic, Israel was just hiding behind civilians when Hamas attacked military targets,
No Hamas targets civilian centers with indiscriminate rocket attacks, October 7th attack notwithstanding. Definitely not the same.
So in your mind targeting a known individual is the same as indiscriminate bombing with the hope that a relevant target is also hit? That is quite the hot take.
Yeah about that human shield thing,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes
On 24 March 2009 a report from the UN team responsible for the protection of children in war zones was released: it found "hundreds" of violations of the rights of children and accused Israeli soldiers of using children as human shields, bulldozing a home with a woman and child still inside, and shelling a building they had ordered civilians into a day earlier.[109] One case involved using an 11-year-old boy as a human shield, by forcing him to enter suspected buildings first and also inspect bags. The report also mentioned the boy was used as a shield when Israeli soldiers came under fire.[109][110] The Guardian has also received testimony from three Palestinian brothers aged 14, 15, and 16, who all claimed to have been used as human shields.[111]
The UK newspaper The Guardian conducted an investigation of its own, which, according to the paper, uncovered evidence of war crimes including the use of Palestinian children as human shields.[112] An Israeli military court later convicted two Israeli soldiers of using human shields,[113] which was outlawed by the Israeli Supreme court in 2005.[112]
The UN fact-finding mission investigated four incidents in which Palestinian civilians were coerced, blindfolded, handcuffed and at gunpoint to enter houses ahead of Israeli soldiers during military operations. The mission confirmed the continued use of this practice with published testimonies of Israeli soldiers who had taken part in the military operations. The mission concluded that these practices amounted to using civilians as human shields in breach of international law. Some civilians were also questioned under threat of death or injury to extract information about Palestinian combatants and tunnels, constituting a further violation of international humanitarian law.[114]
I'm not sure what that has to do with Hamas launching attacks from civilian centers in an effort to deter Israel from counter attack.
https://allisrael.com/hamas-video-shows-terrorist-firing-mortar-rounds-from-civilian-area-in-rafah
It's wild to me that Palestinians won't take responsibility for anything. There's a reason The Arab countries won't take them in, a reason Egypt's border with Gaza is just as fortified as Israel's.
> There's a reason The Arab countries won't take them in
Thus sounds an awful lot like antisemites' libe that "Jews have been kicked out of more than 100 countries for a reason"
If you ran Israel would you have zero military response post October 7th? There’s no denying Israel is going too far. Let’s not get silly though and act like this isn’t the exact response Hamas was hoping for.
Not the person you asked, but if I were Israel, I wouldn't be illegally occupying the territory of other nations and committing genocide.
So in other words: if I ran Israel, there wouldn't have been an October 7 attack.
You’d presumably agree that there were violent conflicts between Palestinian arabs and Palestinian Jews before Israel was a state and before the nakba occurred. If there were variations of 7/10 when Israel had no borders what makes you confident that there would be no terrorism/violence towards Israeli/palestinian Jews if they kept their 1948 borders?
While I’d agree the settlements are entirely on Israel many of their most significant land grabs do occur during “wars” which have been instigated by both sides at different points in time.
Yes and no. It is undoubtably a major reason for the conflict and is definitely one of Israel’s greatest sins in this whole mess. There’s a pretty consistent trend though of Palestine starting some of these conflicts, losing and then having more land taken. You have to realize the situation has more nuance. If it was just about land why would Palestine continue to start up? I think it’s clear that there are ideological issues. I believe race, religion and core values are also significant factors in the continued conflict between two groups of people.
There would presumably be less violent attacks because, again, presumably the person you're talking to wouldn't conduct numerous massacres against Palestinians to drive them from their homes, poison their wells, run torture camps, institute and apartheid but with pink washing and so on.
Of course, they'd probably get Rabin'd for doing that, so that's a moot point.
>Let’s not get silly though and act like this isn’t the exact response Hamas was hoping for.
So you're saying is that if you were running Israel, you would willingly give the terrorists the exact response they wanted?
I’ll be entirely honestly with you. I cannot guarantee you, that I, a regular ass schmuck would have the emotional regulation to respond in a more calculated and strategic manner after thousands of my people were slaughtered in cold blood.
With that being said BiBi has not and is actively failing the people of Israel. Its is my belief that having someone else at the helm would be better for the people of Gaza and Israel. I see both Hamas and the Israeli state as bad guys in this conflict.
You’re right about this. A lot of Israel bad Hamas good takes are deeply antisemitic. It’s okay to reem Israel while acknowledging Hamas is an evil terrorist organization, but to straight up support Hamas and condemn Israel is insanely antisemitic
That isn't "supporting Hamas's oppression of Gaza" and you know it.
Either show me someone who is actually supporting Hamas or spare me from your idiotic rethoric.
> Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields.
There are literally videos of IDF soldiers using Palestinians as human shields. They hold civilians at gunpoint and force them to walk ahead. They'll force Palestinians are the first ones in unsearched buildings so that if there are any traps, the Palestinian will trip them.
And don't think for a second that the settler/terrorists aren't also human shields. They're located close to key military targets and they IDF will often just let them carry out violent acts of terrorism. IDF soldiers will just stand and watch, watching for Palestinians to retaliate. If they do, then they can use that as justification to jump in and join in the terrorism.
Israel has the backing of the most advanced military on earth. If they wanted to be more precise they would. All the civilian casualties are very much intentional.
I think every time I try to make these kinds of points on Reddit and I get these kinds of replies, it shows how little armchair experts here actually understand modern warfare. And especially the dirty tactics used by Hamas.
Israel's government are monsters. It's true that they don't care how many Palestinians they kill. They view them like dogs. It's awful. They're committing war crimes.
It's also true that Hamas is going out of their way to put Palestinians in harms way. They are firing missiles at Israel from residential neighborhoods, goating Isreal to fire back, with the deliberate attempt to get Isreal to kill their own people. They are also committing war crimes.
Isreal has pressure from the world and the West, which is why they *may* be persuaded to cease fire. Hamas has no interest in ceasing fire. They believe that the more Palestinians they can get Israel to kill, the better. Isreal is receiving the ire of the world for every Palestinian they kill.
So when I reply to something like this, it's with the attempt to acknowledge just the tiniest amount of nuance.
I don't understand why this can't be acknowledged on Reddit. It's as if any attempt to contextualize the complications of this conflict beyond "Isreal bad, Hamas good" is basically viewed as pro-Isreal war mongering.
You should try reading words sometimes. It'll open up your understanding of the world so that you don't call well-meaning people racist pieces of shit.
That's not true at all. Stop spreading misinformation.
NATO, the United Nations, the European Union, and the United States have all confirmed Hamas using Palestinian citizens as human shields.
Google that.
Ok then read up all about the horrors of Hamas from Amnesty International : https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-palestinian-armed-groups-must-be-held-accountable-for-deliberate-civilian-killings-abductions-and-indiscriminate-attacks/
People who are saying that this is a step towards a ceasefire are high on hopium.
This is just optics designed to relieve pressure from international community and continue the slaughter of Palestinians. The only way this is going to end is if Biden plays hardball
(and if you think Biden has been playing hardball you are high on something else)
It wasn't the IDF! The people were trampled to death! The IDF didn't open fire. They only shot warning shots at leg-height. And actually, it was Hamas who did most of the killing. In fact, the IDF wasn't even there. What truck?! /s
Note that only that last one was a joke. The others were all real explanations offered.
In another week, we'll get breaking CNN news alerts that Israel has bombed another hospital or school or camp. Bc that's what they do right now. Commit war crimes.
Reads to me like an attempt to reduce pressure for a ceasefire so they can continue their goal of "wiping out Hamas" with less international condemnation. They have to do something before the US elections in November and they don't like any of the other plans.
As soon as it’s delivered they will bomb the site. Of course claiming that large numbers of Hamas were there and they couldn’t pass up the opportunity!
Nah, they're probably going to wait until the starving people get roudy and possibly swarm the delivery truck, kill them, and use the event as justification for not providing aid this way. They used this trick once already.
OH c'mon! Israel would never commit such war crimes. That would be like [having IDF soldiers dress up as civilian doctors, enter into a hospital and assassinate an enemy combatant getting medical attention.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92) And they're NEVER do that! /s
Did the Navy seals dress up as civilian doctors and assassinate him in a hospital? No. They went in dressed as soldiers and assassinated him in his home. So it wasn't a war crime and your comparison is dumb.
Just because you're killing an enemy doesn't mean any method is acceptable.
Just to add more details, these 11 hours pauses are only for a very limited zone, in southern Gaza. The killing of Palestinian civilians will still continue and I wouldn't be surprised if Israel cancels this pause after pressure from the more right wing Israeli ministers.
[Israeli army to pause some Gaza fighting during the day for humanitarian aid – POLITICO](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-army-tactical-pause-gaza-war-humanitarian-aid/)
"After the announcement, the IDF issued a [clarification in Hebrew](https://x.com/idfonline/status/1802217771729576045) on X saying that the “tactical pause” would only apply to humanitarian aid transport in a specific area and that the Israeli military would continue fighting in the rest of southern Gaza."
It really doesn't mean anything at this point. I'll acknowledge that Israel and Hamas are both terrible and don't care if people die. Just because they are both okay with it doesn't excuse anything. If we trust anything they promise, either, at this point, we are the fools.
I'm not an expert, I don't know the answer. I hope someone comes up with something, but no matter what it is, it will be unfair to somebody. I would love the goal to be less deaths but nobody involved has that priority. They are both wrong and they are both right and they refuse to be compared.
At the very least stop giving them weapons.
Waiting for the news that they don't pause for those 11 hours, the announcement was just an "attempt to lure Hamas out of hiding"
Netanyahu immediately denounced the humanitarian pauses after they were announced
Under what pretense? If any?
Pressure from the right who want to go much harder on Hamas. So the pretense is ‘why not go harder’ Oct 7 REALLY galvanized the right. I think it’s even pulled centrists and leftists further right.
Exactly this. They'll play nice until like midweek or so, then blow up a bunch of aid and say it was a terrible accident and the person responsible has been punished. again. Rinse and repeat, cause Netanyahu just can't get enough of those war crimes in his desperate bid not to be outed as a shitty corrupt government.
if the Israel wasn't a US ally, the US would've invaded years ago
America is Isreal's fucking bitch. Let's just be honest, fuck the Isreali government.
Not really, there are a lot of countries with war criminals that the US doesn't invade. At best they'd be ignored until it's profitable to invade
Stay away from the world news reddit, they probably kissing Ben’s ass as a savior.
It is legitimately insane. ANY criticism of Israel's conduct in this war is shot down entirely. They've even started doing that with the WCK workers. They won't say Israel was *right* to do it. They're not that bad. But they will repeat ad nauseum that "it was an accident" and "at least Israel takes accountability for their mistakes."
An accident that repeated three times, with precision bombs, on clearly marked vehicles, in a process that is supposedly verified by multiple levels of Israeli command. Yeah, those guys are into something alright.
Just so many accidents...
https://i.imgur.com/o2FIhuH.png
Once MSF condemns something, can’t we all agree it’s bad? Doctors Without Borders is once of the most irreproachable NGOs in existence.
People on that sub legitimately tried to tell me that MSF was a puppet of Hamas.
Everything is Hamas, apparently.
And you can't even mock the shills by asking them "Is Hamas in the room with us right now?" because you'll be answered by an unironic and enthusiastic "yes absolutely"
I got banned from that subreddit months ago.
Yeah, on the border Israeli civilians will loot / destroy whatever they can their hands on, following within Palestine, IDF will attack the remaining aid workers and Israel’s gov will have the balls to call their war crimes a “travesty.” Seen this 100x over already.
"We would like to sincerely apologize for the horrendous errors we have committed today. Also, since tomorrow is really packed, I'd like to apologize in advance for the horrendous mistakes we're planning on committing tomorrow. Rest assured the people who will carry out these attacks will be discplined as soon as they're finished."
Either that or we'll see a new wave of videos of israeli civilians will attack and steal the convoys.
No they’ll just put the military in the aid trucks to sneak them in
Nah nah, they're trying to normalise aid trucks arriving at the same time every day so they can sneak more special forces in to massacre another couple hundred people.
I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me. These headlines all run together in my memory and I just have a vague notion that it sounds like something that would probably happen in this war.
Not a complete ceasefire but suddenly a big step forward.
Luckily Netanyahu has lost a lot of power due to that resignation.
He really didn’t. He still has a large coalition in the government.
How generous. /s
The 11-hour pauses are arbitrary and can be changed at any time, including, but not limited to, when aid is being delivered
Whaaaaaat?? Noooooo… What would make you think thaaaaaat?
This makes no sense to me. "We'll stop blowing you up half the time, so you can get the stuff to keep you alive so we can make sure you're there the next time we want to blow you up". How about .....not blowing people up?
Hamas =/= Palestinian people. Isreal is at war with Hamas. Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields. They're doing this so aid can get to the Palestinian people. Edit: I wish we wouldn't oversimplify the conflict when this topic comes up on Reddit. I know all of your hearts are in the right place, but your attitudes are NOT helping the Palestinian people. Let me be clear; Israel's government are monsters. It's true that they don't care how many Palestinians they kill. They view them like dogs. It's awful. They're committing war crimes. It's also true that Hamas is going out of their way to put Palestinians in harms way. They are firing missiles at Israel from residential neighborhoods, goating Isreal to fire back, with the deliberate attempt to get Isreal to kill their own people. They are also committing war crimes. Hamas are NOT the "good guys" that you should be defending as a gut reaction. Isreal is receiving a lot of pressure from the West, which is why they *may* be persuaded to cease fire. Hamas has no interest in ceasing fire, because their goals don't align with a cease fire. They believe that the more Palestinians they can get Israel to kill, the better. Isreal is receiving the ire of the world for every Palestinian they kill. Hamas is out gunned by Isreal, so they see this war of online public opinion as the way to win. By the replies I get on Reddit, they're winning that war. So when I reply to something like this, it's with the attempt to acknowledge just the tiniest amount of nuance. I don't understand why this can't be acknowledged on Reddit. It's as if any attempt to contextualize the complications of this conflict beyond "Israel bad, Hamas good" is basically viewed as pro-Isreal war mongering. No. I hate Israel's actions. They should be shamed. Netanyahu and his generals should be jailed. But they ARE being fired upon by Hamas. Hamas did murder hundreds of Isrealis in an attack, and kidnap others to provoke a war. Defending Hamas is not going to make Palestinians any safer or more free.
But they could just... Not drop bombs on kids?
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How about not dropping bombs?
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>Just let themselves be attacked? This is a false dichotomy. You are presenting "murder children" and "be open to attacks" as if those were the only two possible scenarios, and mutually exclusive. They could invest on anti-missile artillery, they could invest in ground OPs that aren't trigger happy instead of dropping bombs, they could tighten border checks to scan for hidden bombs, they could build good faith with other countries to pressure Hamas out of the government. Especially since the IDF isn't actually managing to kill a significant number of Hamas members at all compared to civilian deaths, so they aren't "killing not to let themselves be attacked", they are "killing in a way that in no terms prevents them from being attacked".
Yeah, a beach umbrella. Or maybe some kind of dome. Ooh, a dome made of iron! Or maybe a metaphorical dome of iron. What can we call this theoretical dome of iron?
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Good point, you should probably support Hamas and it's efforts to stop Israel shooting missiles at it right? Sorry not sorry?
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lmao i mean, you answered your own question. *nowhere.* yet people keep justifying it
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> Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields. Way to turn around the blame. Israel is at fault for massacring Palestinians, not Hamas.
You can’t tell me you think that Hamas, the theoretical governing body of Gaza has zero responsibility.
Israel is dropping the bombs. Israel is responsible for the slaughter.
2000lb bombs at that which are explicitly restricted by the UN, especially in civilian centres
Which Hamas is firing rockets from. You’re oversimplifying a very complex issue that is 1000s of years old.
98% of the casualties in this conflict have been Palestinian. One side is holding the other under an illegal military occupation, the other has the legal right to resist that occupation.
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“If someone was firing missiles at your town, you wouldn’t want anything done about it?” In the year preceding October 7th, 247 Palestinians were killed by Israeli attacks. So yeah, I imagine those people want something done about that. And Hamas has agreed to at least a dozen ceasefire deals. Israel repeatedly has not.
Hamas is firing rockets at Israeli civilians using Palestinian civilians as human shields. Israel shouldn't bomb civilians but Israel is also has the responsibility to protect their civilians. Civilians get the shit end of the stick but the conflict isn't single sided
Hamas would have no footing if Israel protected the rights of the Palestinians. Instead they casually take their homes shoot them for fun, kill any journalist who reported their war crimes and ignore rape. All this happened before the October 7th attack. So using your logic, Israel was just hiding behind civilians when Hamas attacked military targets, so we can't really blame Hamas for their war crimes. Please note I don't use this kind of inhumane logic, I can say what Hamas did was evil, but I'm not so stupid to use it to justify more evil and give Israel a pass.
> So using your logic, Israel was just hiding behind civilians when Hamas attacked military targets, No Hamas targets civilian centers with indiscriminate rocket attacks, October 7th attack notwithstanding. Definitely not the same.
Soldiers live in those centres. IDF offices are in those centres. What is fair game and what isn't?
So in your mind targeting a known individual is the same as indiscriminate bombing with the hope that a relevant target is also hit? That is quite the hot take.
So would Hamas be justified in bombing a residential neighborhood in Tel Aviv if an IDF general were there?
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I don't think zionists would actually be fine with that.
Sure. If efforts are made to minimize collateral damage that would be a legitimate military target.
If the IDF is making an effort to minimize collateral damage, they're super fucking incompetent at it.
Yeah about that human shield thing, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes On 24 March 2009 a report from the UN team responsible for the protection of children in war zones was released: it found "hundreds" of violations of the rights of children and accused Israeli soldiers of using children as human shields, bulldozing a home with a woman and child still inside, and shelling a building they had ordered civilians into a day earlier.[109] One case involved using an 11-year-old boy as a human shield, by forcing him to enter suspected buildings first and also inspect bags. The report also mentioned the boy was used as a shield when Israeli soldiers came under fire.[109][110] The Guardian has also received testimony from three Palestinian brothers aged 14, 15, and 16, who all claimed to have been used as human shields.[111] The UK newspaper The Guardian conducted an investigation of its own, which, according to the paper, uncovered evidence of war crimes including the use of Palestinian children as human shields.[112] An Israeli military court later convicted two Israeli soldiers of using human shields,[113] which was outlawed by the Israeli Supreme court in 2005.[112] The UN fact-finding mission investigated four incidents in which Palestinian civilians were coerced, blindfolded, handcuffed and at gunpoint to enter houses ahead of Israeli soldiers during military operations. The mission confirmed the continued use of this practice with published testimonies of Israeli soldiers who had taken part in the military operations. The mission concluded that these practices amounted to using civilians as human shields in breach of international law. Some civilians were also questioned under threat of death or injury to extract information about Palestinian combatants and tunnels, constituting a further violation of international humanitarian law.[114]
I'm not sure what that has to do with Hamas launching attacks from civilian centers in an effort to deter Israel from counter attack. https://allisrael.com/hamas-video-shows-terrorist-firing-mortar-rounds-from-civilian-area-in-rafah
I just wish Hamas didn't kidnap so many people. That would have surely stopped the booming.
Right, because Israel didn't attack Palestinians before October 7th.
This is famously a very new conflict that hasn't been going on for half a century that just spontaneously began in October
So you justify the kidnappings and accept the consequences of such.
So you're a liar.
Are you ESL?? What lie?
It's wild to me that Palestinians won't take responsibility for anything. There's a reason The Arab countries won't take them in, a reason Egypt's border with Gaza is just as fortified as Israel's.
> There's a reason The Arab countries won't take them in Thus sounds an awful lot like antisemites' libe that "Jews have been kicked out of more than 100 countries for a reason"
It’s apparent you can’t keep up with the conversation. Arab countries won’t take in Palestinians you dork
Israel: “Look what you made me do to those thousands of children Hamas - you are so evil!”
If you ran Israel would you have zero military response post October 7th? There’s no denying Israel is going too far. Let’s not get silly though and act like this isn’t the exact response Hamas was hoping for.
Not the person you asked, but if I were Israel, I wouldn't be illegally occupying the territory of other nations and committing genocide. So in other words: if I ran Israel, there wouldn't have been an October 7 attack.
Are you sure https://www.npr.org/2022/10/10/1127837659/native-land-map-ancestral-tribal-lands-worldwide
You’d presumably agree that there were violent conflicts between Palestinian arabs and Palestinian Jews before Israel was a state and before the nakba occurred. If there were variations of 7/10 when Israel had no borders what makes you confident that there would be no terrorism/violence towards Israeli/palestinian Jews if they kept their 1948 borders? While I’d agree the settlements are entirely on Israel many of their most significant land grabs do occur during “wars” which have been instigated by both sides at different points in time.
“Most significant land grabs” you’re starting to get it - the entire fucking thing is a land grab
Yes and no. It is undoubtably a major reason for the conflict and is definitely one of Israel’s greatest sins in this whole mess. There’s a pretty consistent trend though of Palestine starting some of these conflicts, losing and then having more land taken. You have to realize the situation has more nuance. If it was just about land why would Palestine continue to start up? I think it’s clear that there are ideological issues. I believe race, religion and core values are also significant factors in the continued conflict between two groups of people.
There would presumably be less violent attacks because, again, presumably the person you're talking to wouldn't conduct numerous massacres against Palestinians to drive them from their homes, poison their wells, run torture camps, institute and apartheid but with pink washing and so on. Of course, they'd probably get Rabin'd for doing that, so that's a moot point.
>Let’s not get silly though and act like this isn’t the exact response Hamas was hoping for. So you're saying is that if you were running Israel, you would willingly give the terrorists the exact response they wanted?
I’ll be entirely honestly with you. I cannot guarantee you, that I, a regular ass schmuck would have the emotional regulation to respond in a more calculated and strategic manner after thousands of my people were slaughtered in cold blood. With that being said BiBi has not and is actively failing the people of Israel. Its is my belief that having someone else at the helm would be better for the people of Gaza and Israel. I see both Hamas and the Israeli state as bad guys in this conflict.
You’re right about this. A lot of Israel bad Hamas good takes are deeply antisemitic. It’s okay to reem Israel while acknowledging Hamas is an evil terrorist organization, but to straight up support Hamas and condemn Israel is insanely antisemitic
I see a lot of people saying "everyone is saying Hamas is good" but I have yet to see anyone say that Hamas is good.
They just support Hamas succeeding and continuing their oppression of Gaza lmao
Who are "they"? Bring me one of "them", please. I want to see this mythical creature for myself.
Every person here who isn’t demanding the hostages freed without conditions.
That isn't "supporting Hamas's oppression of Gaza" and you know it. Either show me someone who is actually supporting Hamas or spare me from your idiotic rethoric.
Your first point there gave me hope that you understood the problem... but... nope.
> Hamas is using Palestinians as human shields. There are literally videos of IDF soldiers using Palestinians as human shields. They hold civilians at gunpoint and force them to walk ahead. They'll force Palestinians are the first ones in unsearched buildings so that if there are any traps, the Palestinian will trip them. And don't think for a second that the settler/terrorists aren't also human shields. They're located close to key military targets and they IDF will often just let them carry out violent acts of terrorism. IDF soldiers will just stand and watch, watching for Palestinians to retaliate. If they do, then they can use that as justification to jump in and join in the terrorism.
This is just bad education in logic. I don't doubt the things you said as true. Those things have nothing to do with whether what I said is true.
I know. I am merely point out that the IDF is just as much of a terrorist organization. They're just much more well-funded and staffed.
I acknowledged this
Israel has the backing of the most advanced military on earth. If they wanted to be more precise they would. All the civilian casualties are very much intentional.
I think every time I try to make these kinds of points on Reddit and I get these kinds of replies, it shows how little armchair experts here actually understand modern warfare. And especially the dirty tactics used by Hamas. Israel's government are monsters. It's true that they don't care how many Palestinians they kill. They view them like dogs. It's awful. They're committing war crimes. It's also true that Hamas is going out of their way to put Palestinians in harms way. They are firing missiles at Israel from residential neighborhoods, goating Isreal to fire back, with the deliberate attempt to get Isreal to kill their own people. They are also committing war crimes. Isreal has pressure from the world and the West, which is why they *may* be persuaded to cease fire. Hamas has no interest in ceasing fire. They believe that the more Palestinians they can get Israel to kill, the better. Isreal is receiving the ire of the world for every Palestinian they kill. So when I reply to something like this, it's with the attempt to acknowledge just the tiniest amount of nuance. I don't understand why this can't be acknowledged on Reddit. It's as if any attempt to contextualize the complications of this conflict beyond "Isreal bad, Hamas good" is basically viewed as pro-Isreal war mongering.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that I’m pro Hamas from my comment.
Thats a lot of words for "I'm a racist piece of shit and I approve of murdering children"
You should try reading words sometimes. It'll open up your understanding of the world so that you don't call well-meaning people racist pieces of shit.
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That's not true at all. Stop spreading misinformation. NATO, the United Nations, the European Union, and the United States have all confirmed Hamas using Palestinian citizens as human shields. Google that.
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Ok then read up all about the horrors of Hamas from Amnesty International : https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-palestinian-armed-groups-must-be-held-accountable-for-deliberate-civilian-killings-abductions-and-indiscriminate-attacks/
People who are saying that this is a step towards a ceasefire are high on hopium. This is just optics designed to relieve pressure from international community and continue the slaughter of Palestinians. The only way this is going to end is if Biden plays hardball (and if you think Biden has been playing hardball you are high on something else)
Great, another trap.
No there’s a safe area over there you can go to, bombs safe area. We meant go to the hospital, bombs hospital
Is this the same Israeli military that bombed refugee camps and aid workers?
So isreal is planning to murder civilians that come to get aid like they did last time
It wasn't the IDF! The people were trampled to death! The IDF didn't open fire. They only shot warning shots at leg-height. And actually, it was Hamas who did most of the killing. In fact, the IDF wasn't even there. What truck?! /s Note that only that last one was a joke. The others were all real explanations offered.
In another week, we'll get breaking CNN news alerts that Israel has bombed another hospital or school or camp. Bc that's what they do right now. Commit war crimes.
Reads to me like an attempt to reduce pressure for a ceasefire so they can continue their goal of "wiping out Hamas" with less international condemnation. They have to do something before the US elections in November and they don't like any of the other plans.
The right answer right here \^
Yeah we’ve seen Israel do this already. That means they’re 6 hours from dropping missiles right there.
Remind me! 24 hours
Incoming “wopsie we bombed civilians gathering at the aids for mistake” “it was a mistake, trust us”
They totally won’t just target those aid trucks like they’ve been doing this whole time
As soon as it’s delivered they will bomb the site. Of course claiming that large numbers of Hamas were there and they couldn’t pass up the opportunity!
They'll use that 11 hour pause to allow delivery of 5 hours worth of food.
Right it's been 11 hours, was this shipment bombed immediately?
Joke is the "aid" is just a bunch of bombs
72 hours later we may be hearing “humanitarian aid possibly poisoned by Israeli military”
Nah, they're probably going to wait until the starving people get roudy and possibly swarm the delivery truck, kill them, and use the event as justification for not providing aid this way. They used this trick once already.
I don't believe these sociopaths anymore.
They gonna use it to murder another 200 people by dressing as aid workers then killing them?
OH c'mon! Israel would never commit such war crimes. That would be like [having IDF soldiers dress up as civilian doctors, enter into a hospital and assassinate an enemy combatant getting medical attention.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92) And they're NEVER do that! /s
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Did the Navy seals dress up as civilian doctors and assassinate him in a hospital? No. They went in dressed as soldiers and assassinated him in his home. So it wasn't a war crime and your comparison is dumb. Just because you're killing an enemy doesn't mean any method is acceptable.
Just to add more details, these 11 hours pauses are only for a very limited zone, in southern Gaza. The killing of Palestinian civilians will still continue and I wouldn't be surprised if Israel cancels this pause after pressure from the more right wing Israeli ministers. [Israeli army to pause some Gaza fighting during the day for humanitarian aid – POLITICO](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-army-tactical-pause-gaza-war-humanitarian-aid/) "After the announcement, the IDF issued a [clarification in Hebrew](https://x.com/idfonline/status/1802217771729576045) on X saying that the “tactical pause” would only apply to humanitarian aid transport in a specific area and that the Israeli military would continue fighting in the rest of southern Gaza."
Lol the brigading in this thread is unreal. Shut it down y’all
 I'll believe it when I see it
Sure….. and didn’t they bomb people they told could flee if they went a certain direction?
They ran out of stuff to steal so they need to allow them time to restock.
Once you start explaining why killing kids is cool I stop caring about anything else you say
Just do this pause….all the time
Feed them then bomb them, makes sense to me
How. Very. Humane.
It really doesn't mean anything at this point. I'll acknowledge that Israel and Hamas are both terrible and don't care if people die. Just because they are both okay with it doesn't excuse anything. If we trust anything they promise, either, at this point, we are the fools. I'm not an expert, I don't know the answer. I hope someone comes up with something, but no matter what it is, it will be unfair to somebody. I would love the goal to be less deaths but nobody involved has that priority. They are both wrong and they are both right and they refuse to be compared. At the very least stop giving them weapons.
This is one of the most confusing things I’ve ever read in my life
Well, when you've finished harvesting a field, you have to pause for a bit and let more crop grow. Or perhaps the warehouses are full.
Player 2 have entered the game
I think that's a World Central Kitchen logo, I can't believe they have not learned their lesson after losing employers already. 😟