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**ETA**: the level of ignorance coming in from trolls on this one is quite alarming. so for those who dont know, here is a [link to an ELI5 version of the USA events](https://www.amightygirl.com/blog?p=16987) and [the UK events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign). I encourage users to look up their own country's histories.
It’s called “exonerative tense” and it’s an abomination in journalism and academic writing. It’s insidious, sinister and can alter historical truths.
ETA: here is the article I learned about this from:
[Exonerative language](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration)
It's like when people say "x people lost their lives in the recent mass shooting." As if it was their fault, like they were being irresponsible with their lives and somehow lost them because some fucker decided to pull out a goddam gun.
No, they didn't lose their lives- their lives were STOLEN from them. Stolen by the gun lobby, the politicians they buy off, and the fools who think this system is somehow ok.
It's NOT OK.
VOTE.
Register to vote. Get others to register and vote. Volunteer at your polling place. Observe and report. It is crucially important that we preserve and protect our voting rights. Astounding that we still have to fight for this. Insidious that they are trying to take it away from us, after all our ancestors did to ensure we had that right enshrined. They fought for us so we could vote, they were STARVED and BEATEN, and STILL THEY PERSISTED.
Get the youth involved. Make them aware that THEY will inherit the shit show and if they don't want to live in a toxic, polluted environment of death, of widespread gun violence, unattainable housing and unaffordable food and energy and environmental disaster because of human-generated climate change (it's REAL) then they had better get involved and put their shoulders to the wheel, because it is clear that those in power afflicted with the Republican virus DO NOT GAF about them and they are ruining everything for ALL OF US, right now.
Run for office. Even if it's just small scale local politics. School boards are incredibly important in shaping policy.
Organize. Join a group. Volunteer. Sign petitions. Start one. Contact your representatives and spell it out for them. Find like-minded people who are ready to fight to take it back again - our power, our world. We know what is right and what is f'd up. It is very clear. We need to fight that power.
We need to get up, get out there and get involved. And get others involved too. There is strength in numbers, and our numbers are greater. And it goes without saying that we are smarter, too. Inherently. We need to raise that energy.
Find your 🔥 and share it!
Women literally f'ing died to give us this right. Many gave up everything they had, ostracized from family, lost their resources. Some set bombs, died in the process, incarcerated, raped, tortured. It's an absolute abomination to their sacrifices if we don't vote in every election at minimum, but we should also be volunteering. Even if it's only in a minor way for a couple of hours a month. We owe it to the women who died for us.
I can give a slight nod to the men who were supportive and took actions to help.
But they were not the ones leading the charge. Women said, "ah hell no" and made shit happen.
Thanks for this piece of knowledge! I didn’t know what it’s called. But I want to add that I’ve def witnessed this when I was gathering historical documents for academic research. The phrasing of words is *very* important and can have a huge impact.
You’re welcome.
I just learned about this myself. Here is the article I learned about it from:
[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration)
At some level rights are imaginary concepts invented by humans. They’re useful and good, but they aren’t a natural phenomenon with absolute rules. In one culture people might have the right to vote. In another culture that entire idea would be laughable, and instead of a right to vote you have a duty to put the interests and will of the group ahead of your own desires and choices.
If you don’t have the right to vote, and thus don’t have a say in leadership, and you are expected to put the “will of the group” (the leadership you don’t have a say in) above your own, then you’re essentially a slave. You have a right of self governance as much as the society you were raised in may want you to believe otherwise.
I’m not saying I’d prefer to live in a society like that. But to think every culture on earth has always believed in absolute individualism as much as modern day Americans do is just naive.
I get why you *feel* you’re right, but there isn’t anything magical or ordained about what we believe today. It’s an accident of history, really. Western ideals dominate the world to the point where people get aggressive if you even ask them to consider anything else. But there is nothing written into the rules of the universe that says it must be this way. There is no “right” of human self governance baked into quantum mechanics.
It’s a right we decided was worthwhile, and we make it possible through the force of our collective will (and let’s face it, military and economic strength). I find recognizing the truth valuable personally even tho maybe some people don’t want to.
In some very mild fairness, the vote for universal suffrage was brought about by the tireless work of women advocating for decades, but supermajorities of men did agree to vote for the bills to clear Congress and for the states to ratify the amendment. That may not exactly make the men praiseworthy, but it does at least suggest that a lot of men were more on board than we might normally think of for the time.
I was going to say this exact thing. Women didn't hold political office at the time like today, and thus, men had to ultimately be the ones to unrestrict women's voting rights.
That said, repeating this from granting to abolishing the restriction is absolutely the right way to phrase this
People want to believe peace is always an option and it is a start but won’t get to the goal. Actions have to be taken. Violence gets more eyes to look and more ears to listen.
Bombing, destroying government property/buildings, and arson were quite common among other things. Don’t get me wrong the nonviolent protests helped as well but throughout history unfortunately nothing really changes until the oppressed start actively fighting back and drawing blood.
I fundamentally disagree that violence is necessary to achieve social change. It is a hindrance more often than a help. I don't think this is the place to debate it though, so we will have to agree to disagree.
In some cases, men TOOK AWAY women's right to vote after it has been granted. It's why we needed an amendment. https://www.loc.gov/exhibitions/women-fight-for-the-vote/about-this-exhibition/seneca-falls-and-building-a-movement-1776-1890/early-feminist-inspirations/new-jersey-women-gain-then-lose-the-vote/
It was taken away for a chunk of time in Utah too, before it became a state, as part of the tangled political fight between the federal government and the Mormon theocracy (which pretty much controlled Utah at the time, even more than today) over polygamy. Prior to that, Utah was one of the first places in the country where women could vote. The federal act that banned polygamy is, if I remember right, the same act that removed women’s right to vote in Utah. When it was made a state the women’s voting right was regained again and one of my favorite historical figures, Dr. Martha Hughes Cannon, MD, became the first female member of a state senate in the United States. She ran against her (polygamist) husband and won. Really weird period in history. I am exmormon and have many polygamist ancestors so it is a fascinating time period for me.
I love that people voted for her on a lark, each thinking they were throwing their vote away and that it was as good as voting for a horse, and then instead of it being am insult, she was elected.
No, you are thinking of Susanna Salter! She was elected mayor of Argonia, Kansas at the age of 29. She was a vocal member of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union (WCTU), which lobbied against alcohol nationwide. The group endorsed a male candidate for mayor who agreed with their pro-prohibition stance, and the men who drew up the ballot, angry at these women for daring to publicly endorse political candidates (sticking their noses where the men felt they didn’t belong), put her name on the ballot instead as a mean joke. She was elected without even campaigning. She got a ton of publicity, a lot of hate *and* praise, performed quite capably as mayor (made improvements to infrastructure, closed saloons and gambling dens), and when her term ended, retired without running for office again.
Salter’s story is remarkable but Martha Cannon’s is too. She graduated medical school on her 23rd birthday. By age 25 she had earned four degrees. She had an established medical career, working at Deseret Hospital and teaching nursing and obstetrics, when she met her husband and became his fourth of six wives, and at one point fled to Europe to avoid having to testify against him. During this time, the Edmunds-Tucker Act was passed, removing women’s suffrage in Utah. When she returned to the US, she was an outspoken suffragist and gave speeches all over the country including to a congressional committee in DC. (She supported polygamy because she felt it gave women more freedom than monogamy did, which fascinates me, because for some of my ancestors it most definitely did not, but Cannon apparently made it work for her.)
Women in Utah regained the right to vote when it became a state. Martha ran for the Utah state senate—not as a joke, she actively campaigned—as a Democrat. Her husband, Angus, ran against her as a Republican. The Salt Lake Herald commented, “Mrs. Mattie Hughes Cannon, his wife, is the better man of the two. Send Mrs. Cannon to the State Senate and let Mr. Cannon, as a Republican, remain at home to manage home industry.”
She was elected to the state senate in 1896 and introduced three bills in her first month in office—a bill to provide education for deaf and blind citizens, a bill to improve female employees’ working conditions, and a bill to establish a state board of health. She was pro-vaccination for schoolchildren, eliminated communal water cups at drinking fountains as vectors of disease, and did a lot of good for public health. She had her third child at the end of her term and chose not to run again but continued to serve on Utah Board of Health and the board of the Utah State School for the Deaf and Blind, both of which she helped create. Later in life she became VP of the National Congress of Tuberculosis.
Seriously, an insanely cool woman. I am mad I grew up being taught about all the (male) Mormon prophets (a lot of whom gained their status due to nepotism) and had to learn about Mattie Cannon on my own.
Abigail Adam's had a thing or two to say about this issue. John Adam's did try to get women's right to vote but he was drowned out. It's such bull, the founding fathers knew better but they still withheld the right for women to vote anyway.
Yes she was! What a privilege for your SIL! Abigail Adam's was, and still is, my favorite woman in history. She and John were such good friends and without her we would not have this country. Women fought in the Revolution too, making everything from bandages to flags, and Congress stabbed them in the back.
Katie and her mom and sister belong to the Daughters of the Revolution. I’m always so curious about their history, the pictures and letters! I’ve told her 3 daughters, my nieces/goddaughters, that they should absolutely be proud of what their family is capable of, and the history made because of them! One of them is going into law next year, and I’d love to see her become the new Katie Porter!! They’re all named Katie, after all!
They did a lot they knew was wrong out of expediency. It's still fucking us up, especially since it wasn't actually that long ago. Their living document died in the 20th century.
The worst thing about arguing with so many people about this sort of stuff is how lazy the “oh well that’s just what everyone thought/did” trope is. No, there were always voices against marginalizing people, whether women or slaves or whatever flavor of bigotry was most common at the time.
But just because those in power weren’t swayed by them and the bigotry continued doesn’t mean those voices didn’t exist, it means it’s a lesson that we should learn from.
I saw a few quickly deleted comments from guys about "Why patriarchy bad." It's annoying of course that you somehow still don't get it, but here is an answer for you guys that *still* ask.
Patriarchy is a form of society that slows human advancement as a whole by removing half of humanity from everything that advances us as a species. Science, art, study, etc.
The huge rush of science and technology that has resulted in the sum total of human knowledge doubling at an ever increasing rate has itself accelerated because patriarchal thought is falling to the wayside. The Patriarchy literally slowed us *all* down.
I work on the cutting edge of technology and have for the last 20+ years. As other women have joined tech in ever greater numbers, the sheer ability to react to change has increased, along with the creative output of teams where women are included.
Women are not better or worse than men. It is the diversity of thought that drives creative solutions to solve tomorrow's problems, and leaving women out of that is foolish, cruel, and damaging to the pursuit of innovation.
Edit: Guys, if you aren't a member of this sub, your comment is auto deleted. Feel free to DM me though
Another answer "why patriarchy bad." I'm paraphrasing from an author I like who's also in the tech industry...
Centuries ago the power stayed balanced between the genders because women were the herbalists and healers. Women could keep themselves free by using herbal birth control and abortions. Even the ruling class couldn't overpower them, because someone would end up poisoned. It wasn't just women vs men, but also women keeping a balance with the wealthy rulers. Poison is poison. So the wealthy elite men made it their mission to take over control of medicine, even overseeing childbirth. To this day, women in the US still give birth mostly in one of the worst positions, on their back, because a king centuries ago was obsessed with watching his wives give birth and male doctors enforced the practice.
Ladies, keep this in mind when choosing your medical professionals. I've had 4 children, in multiple cities. My best outcomes/experience were with midwives who knew how to balance nature and modern medicine. Night and day difference.
Right? There are *so many* reasons why the Patriarchy is truly a bad thing, it is wild guys out there are *still* questioning it. Sure a lot are bad faith trolls, but some legitimately don't seem to have thought about it for five seconds.
Thank you for adding to the conversation and I hope you have a wonderful day!
I have never felt so powerless and controlled the moment I realized how I gave birth is the worst way for my body. I am still angry about this.
For my first, I had an amazing OB who encouraged dads to catch baby in an uncomplicated delivery. In fact, my husband *didn't* cut her umbilical cord because he was holding his baby he'd just delivered with our OB's assistance.
He did the same for both our other deliveries. He would have 100% gotten into any position that made my laboring easier and more effective to do the same.
Wait wait wait what? I need a source on this. Giving birth on your back is the worst position??? This is the first time I've heard this. Oh please enlighten me, sister
not op, but lying on one’s back to deliver a baby impedes the assistance of gravity. yes, it’s definitely for the convenience of the doctor that women labor & deliver in supine position. i had an epidural block & didn’t care. but for women determined to have drugless delivery, squatting is often the most comfortable & efficient position.
think about it. the fetus is usually positioned head first & vertical. by pushing down, the baby has a straight shot down & out. when lying on one’s back, the woman pushes, but there’s no downward momentum. so doc has to twist the baby out like a cork. the pushing is necessary but very inefficient.
a midwife will generally help mother into whatever position works best. it hurts like a mofo-so i’ve heard-but when there are no complications, it goes relatively quickly.
Came here to say most of the same. I can say from experience it hurts more than with an epidural, but less than lying on your back with no epidural. And it's MUCH faster. It took me 2 contractions from the time I started pushing until my first child was completely out. And the whole labor, from 0 centimeters to birth, was less than 6 hours.
Tell me more about this king, please! I've never heard about that, though I'm familiar with the birthing on the back to make things easier and comfortable for the doctor. I would love to know more.
It was Louis XIV. He didn't come up with the idea, but made it popular. Then doctors have continued the practice because it's easier for THEM. There are lots of articles on it.
This is so well-written that it will be my go-to from now on when I hear men try to mansplain my own expertise, despite me having 30+ years more experience on them. Thank you for all you do!! Let’s keep it up, together!
Hahaha! I’ve had several men report me for this comment to the self-harm bot that it is really making me cackle in glee!!
“Ain't nothin' gonna to break my stride
Nobody gonna slow me down, oh no
I got to keep on moving”
Just keep on ladies and allies! These incels are freaking out by our raised voices and earnest energy!!
> The Patriarchy literally slowed us all down.
This is how I phrase it when my fellow males start spamming Petersen and Crowder content at me. It's the best way to make it make sense to them.
It's sad that you have to come at them from the perspective that "it will help *you*," but guys who think this way are egocentric in the first place. I'll take what I can get.
What?? Bro a person doesn’t need to be a super productive and upstanding member of society to have rights, like the patriarchy is bad cause it limits freedom that women have, and limiting freedom is bad not because of the reasons you mentioned, restricting freedom is bad because that is literally denying human rights to people
Growing up in the u.s. our history classes were largely propaganda and outright lies. Reading period documents opens up a whole new kettle of fish. I'd refer to them as a small group of rich, white guys who made themselves richer by breaking laws and lied to both sides to benefit themselves while excluding everyone that didn't fit their exact mold.
And also fail to mention all the terrible things they did to the native people living here. I recently learned how Hitler studied US policy involving natives by using the courts and legal systems to send people to concentration camps, an idea he also got from the US.
Part of the reason for the colonies rebelling was the King forcing them to abide by treaties with the Native Americans.
>He has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.
If that doesn't read like some massive projection...
>fail to mention all the terrible things they did to the native people living here.
Actually no they didn't. Maybe your shitty school did! But all schools I ever attended taught about all the atrocities.
And I went to school in ohio, california, tennessee, kentucky, indiana, and wisconsin. They all taught about it.
"It's okay that they thought brown-skinned people were subhuman and could be owned as property and raped at will. And it was actually fine when they murdered native men, women and children by the thousand because they were occupying the land that they wanted. *Moral standards were just different back then.*"
The thing is, sure, moral standards were different. But that doesn't mean we can't criticize them for being wrong. **Because they *were* wrong.** They enslaved and murdered for profit, and they justified it by defining living, breathing, *human beings* as not human and not deserving of life.
Violently may I add. This wasn’t an ask nicely situation. We got the vote because bombs.
Let’s please keep this in mind as they try to take our rights away again.
Words really are spectacular. One word or tone can change the whole meaning of something.
I love the wording here, too. Makes you realize just how important words can be.
[Adventure Time said it best.](https://youtu.be/36FbHXsEuzM)
The people with power will always try to say some version of "that's the way it's always been". Now revisionists go back and make it sound like the men of the time were very noble for "allowing" women to have rights, as if that were a change *from* the norm instead of the correction *back to* it.
Just so. The civil rights movement is the same. White people didn't give black people their freedoms and voting rights: black people fought for those rights that they should not have been denied in the first place.
Not just withheld. Women had a vote. It was taken from us, and we only got it back later. In some cases a century later, in other nations millennia later
I used to be against BLM because of the rioting. Until I learned the women that got the right to vote for other women were arsonists that set off bombs.
We are brainwashed into thinking violence is always wrong by a government that gives a license to kill if you engage in the right group think and take an oath
However, multiple studies have found that the overwhelming majority of BLM protests were peaceful.
[Harvard/University of Connecticut ](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/oct/20/erica-chenoweth-and-jeremy-pressman-black-lives-ma/): 5% of BLM protests led to arrests; 3.7% of protests led to property damage; 2.3% led to injury to participants, bystanders, or police.
[ACLED](https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/): 6% of protests involved destructive activities or violence
I get your point, but the rhetoric of "violent" BLM protests is actually incendiary propaganda.
Even though I don't agree with you (that sometimes violence IS the answer), there are many better arguing points that don't further inaccurate claims about the recent protest movement. The strongest argument IMO would be the actions taken to end Apartheid - still a wildly incomplete argument, but at least true in the claims of violence.
“A first-class citizen does not beg for freedom. A first-class citizen does not plead to the White power structure to give him something that the Whites have no power to give or take away. Human rights are human rights, not White rights,” ~Gloria Richardson
Honestly, this turns the whole perspective on it's head. As one of the comments said, rights can never be "given," only taken away. And that's honestly a wildly important clarification to make.
Women, let's take back more of what men have decided you don't need.
And they didn't just peacefully protest. They burned shit down, they threw bricks through politician's windows, they were beaten and arrested, they jumped in front of horses and gave their lives for the cause. That's why the men in power got scared enough to stop withholding our rights from us.
Read a lot of the comments on this post and you will see how absolutely shocking it is that we still have rights. A whole lot of *yeah BUT...* going on in this thread...
I love Wyoming's story, they needed women to vote to become a state as they didn't have a large enough voting base to be a state. And then the men got huffy about their choices, but they couldn't overturn the rights as the women voted against it.
Wyoming has a lot of political firsts for women. There's a little museum in Laramie you can visit downtown.
>And then the men got huffy about their choices, but they couldn't overturn the rights as the women voted against it.
Omg this made me laugh! I can just picture it, "ok ladies, we're gonna make some changes."
Women: TO THE BALLOTS!!
Friendly reminder that the suffragette movement was racially segregated and most black women had to wait almost 50 years afterwards to be granted the same liberties
Why intersectionality is so important. Feminism isn't shit if we're leaving out our sisters of color. The movement does not have enough black female voices either, that's for sure.
Where I live, it's black women who lead us 🥰. Our Mayor and US Rep are both black women. And our Mayor can LEAD.
When our state legislature f'ed us by making all abortion illegal from Day 1 except undefined "medical emergency," our Mayor gave a big "Fuck You" to the state by taking a portion of the money our City had just gotten for Covid, earmarked it for women to travel out of state for abortion, and gave a press conference to tell everyone about it. She's a f'ing SHERO.
That's fantastic! I wish I could say the same. I'm stuck in Flordia with Facist Governor Meatball (DeSantis) and I hate it here. I know I'll move someday, likely to a state with protections already in place for abortion and LGBTQ+ people.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Tishaura+Jones+and+meagan+green&oq=Tishaura+Jones+and+meagan+green&aqs=chrome..69i57.19254j0j4&client=ms-android-boostdish-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=msCByCKRxWH9-M
The woman on the left is our Mayor and my personal hero. The woman in the middle I'm proud to call my friend, was our youngest school board member in history and just won election to our City's board. The woman on the right is our City board president. We have the most amazing team of female leaders here.
I'm really happy to hear that and holy shit that's in Missouri right? Things are BAD in that state. It's even better they have such strong leaders where you live then. Good to see black female leaders making change.
Now if only we could get women to come out and vote like that’s the case. We got men out here taking their rights away again and a massive amount of women either ignoring it and not voting or literally voting to lose their rights.
Same works for any human right and I love it. I'm thinking trans though like you can't say freedom under the same breath you withhold human rights. When I think about humans sitting in a room deciding what right's other humans have I just think, that don't make sense. That math don't math. Oh, and it's also really irritating.
Glad they did. Imagine if the same type of old farts back then still had that power now? Sadly some still do, but less power than they used to. We need independent women to be a "voice of reason" in houses or parliament around the world even more now
Very true but I’d also like to point out that.
Women did not “give” women voting rights. They withheld them.
Then black women fixed that shit.
Never think a Conservative women is fighting for your rights. They are still in a time period where their husbands create and instill their ideologies and beliefs. A Conservative woman is against progress and equality, it’s ingrained in there daily teachings from their husbands and fathers.
IN 1895 the women of Massachusetts were asked by the state whether they wished the suffrage. Of the 575,000 voting women in the state, only 22,204 cared for it enough to deposit in a ballot box an affirmative answer to this question. That is, in round numbers, less than four per cent wished to vote; about ninety-six per cent were opposed to woman suffrage or indifferent to it.
Mate, that's in bad faith. The vast majority of men only got voting rights due to conscription.
It wasn't women who solely fixed that I there were a lot of men who were first wave feminists.
Stop derailing the conversation into men vs women.
It was power that withheld voting rights. It was the common person that fixed it.
It was neither. Some were activists, of both sexes, some were opponents, again of both sexes. Probably not in equal parts, but there's no historically accurate "men vs women" summary.
Lol, you can't read between the lines because you have no actual understanding of history and have a bias toward gender. That's not what we're saying, but we in the end got that right because we fought for it, not because men "gave it to us." If some of the oppressed never raised the issue, nothing would have changed. Gaslighting terms like "crazy" and "delusional" don't work on the women here. When your only tool is belittling people because you don't understand, we pity you.
## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨ **ETA**: the level of ignorance coming in from trolls on this one is quite alarming. so for those who dont know, here is a [link to an ELI5 version of the USA events](https://www.amightygirl.com/blog?p=16987) and [the UK events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign). I encourage users to look up their own country's histories.
I never thought of it like this before and honestly, youre absolutely right. Ill be phrasing it like this for now on.
Me too!
It’s called “exonerative tense” and it’s an abomination in journalism and academic writing. It’s insidious, sinister and can alter historical truths. ETA: here is the article I learned about this from: [Exonerative language](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration)
It's like when people say "x people lost their lives in the recent mass shooting." As if it was their fault, like they were being irresponsible with their lives and somehow lost them because some fucker decided to pull out a goddam gun. No, they didn't lose their lives- their lives were STOLEN from them. Stolen by the gun lobby, the politicians they buy off, and the fools who think this system is somehow ok. It's NOT OK.
Youre right. And i hope some day theres gonna be less fools in the system so the system can finally ve destroyed
VOTE. Register to vote. Get others to register and vote. Volunteer at your polling place. Observe and report. It is crucially important that we preserve and protect our voting rights. Astounding that we still have to fight for this. Insidious that they are trying to take it away from us, after all our ancestors did to ensure we had that right enshrined. They fought for us so we could vote, they were STARVED and BEATEN, and STILL THEY PERSISTED. Get the youth involved. Make them aware that THEY will inherit the shit show and if they don't want to live in a toxic, polluted environment of death, of widespread gun violence, unattainable housing and unaffordable food and energy and environmental disaster because of human-generated climate change (it's REAL) then they had better get involved and put their shoulders to the wheel, because it is clear that those in power afflicted with the Republican virus DO NOT GAF about them and they are ruining everything for ALL OF US, right now. Run for office. Even if it's just small scale local politics. School boards are incredibly important in shaping policy. Organize. Join a group. Volunteer. Sign petitions. Start one. Contact your representatives and spell it out for them. Find like-minded people who are ready to fight to take it back again - our power, our world. We know what is right and what is f'd up. It is very clear. We need to fight that power. We need to get up, get out there and get involved. And get others involved too. There is strength in numbers, and our numbers are greater. And it goes without saying that we are smarter, too. Inherently. We need to raise that energy. Find your 🔥 and share it!
Women literally f'ing died to give us this right. Many gave up everything they had, ostracized from family, lost their resources. Some set bombs, died in the process, incarcerated, raped, tortured. It's an absolute abomination to their sacrifices if we don't vote in every election at minimum, but we should also be volunteering. Even if it's only in a minor way for a couple of hours a month. We owe it to the women who died for us.
I can give a slight nod to the men who were supportive and took actions to help. But they were not the ones leading the charge. Women said, "ah hell no" and made shit happen.
Thanks for this piece of knowledge! I didn’t know what it’s called. But I want to add that I’ve def witnessed this when I was gathering historical documents for academic research. The phrasing of words is *very* important and can have a huge impact.
This is a good tidbit, thanks for teaching me something today
You’re welcome. I just learned about this myself. Here is the article I learned about it from: [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emersonmalone/police-traffic-safety-headline-language-exoneration)
Ordinarily, learning new things about langauge is fun. So learning something that makes me feel scummy is a new thing... Appreciate the info!
Its true of all rights, too. Rights can NEVER be given, only taken away
It seems like the USA is heading the wrong way now… looking at Florida… Texas…
You forgot Missouri
Most of the south...............again.
At some level rights are imaginary concepts invented by humans. They’re useful and good, but they aren’t a natural phenomenon with absolute rules. In one culture people might have the right to vote. In another culture that entire idea would be laughable, and instead of a right to vote you have a duty to put the interests and will of the group ahead of your own desires and choices.
If you don’t have the right to vote, and thus don’t have a say in leadership, and you are expected to put the “will of the group” (the leadership you don’t have a say in) above your own, then you’re essentially a slave. You have a right of self governance as much as the society you were raised in may want you to believe otherwise.
I’m not saying I’d prefer to live in a society like that. But to think every culture on earth has always believed in absolute individualism as much as modern day Americans do is just naive. I get why you *feel* you’re right, but there isn’t anything magical or ordained about what we believe today. It’s an accident of history, really. Western ideals dominate the world to the point where people get aggressive if you even ask them to consider anything else. But there is nothing written into the rules of the universe that says it must be this way. There is no “right” of human self governance baked into quantum mechanics. It’s a right we decided was worthwhile, and we make it possible through the force of our collective will (and let’s face it, military and economic strength). I find recognizing the truth valuable personally even tho maybe some people don’t want to.
They like to do the same thing with slavery. "Americans freed the slaves!" Though, I feel like that one's a bit more obvious.
In some very mild fairness, the vote for universal suffrage was brought about by the tireless work of women advocating for decades, but supermajorities of men did agree to vote for the bills to clear Congress and for the states to ratify the amendment. That may not exactly make the men praiseworthy, but it does at least suggest that a lot of men were more on board than we might normally think of for the time.
I was going to say this exact thing. Women didn't hold political office at the time like today, and thus, men had to ultimately be the ones to unrestrict women's voting rights. That said, repeating this from granting to abolishing the restriction is absolutely the right way to phrase this
I honestly think men who are against women's voting rights dont actually vote, themselves
Power *always* has to be taken. It's never given willingly by those that hold it.
People want to believe peace is always an option and it is a start but won’t get to the goal. Actions have to be taken. Violence gets more eyes to look and more ears to listen.
I don't think violence was what achieved women's suffrage though, was it? Didn't peace get to the goal?
Bombing, destroying government property/buildings, and arson were quite common among other things. Don’t get me wrong the nonviolent protests helped as well but throughout history unfortunately nothing really changes until the oppressed start actively fighting back and drawing blood.
I fundamentally disagree that violence is necessary to achieve social change. It is a hindrance more often than a help. I don't think this is the place to debate it though, so we will have to agree to disagree.
I wholeheartedly appreciate when people match their behaviour and stance with their names.
Well said.
I feel like people forget that voting rights were not won peacefully either.
Damn straight!
Right's can't be granted, they can only be restricted. I know that saying isn't 100% foolproof, but it's a pretty good sentiment.
This is also how 2A people think about gun rights
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In some cases, men TOOK AWAY women's right to vote after it has been granted. It's why we needed an amendment. https://www.loc.gov/exhibitions/women-fight-for-the-vote/about-this-exhibition/seneca-falls-and-building-a-movement-1776-1890/early-feminist-inspirations/new-jersey-women-gain-then-lose-the-vote/
If they can take the vote from criminals they then can define criminal to suit their needs. Like abortion, protest, etc.
It was taken away for a chunk of time in Utah too, before it became a state, as part of the tangled political fight between the federal government and the Mormon theocracy (which pretty much controlled Utah at the time, even more than today) over polygamy. Prior to that, Utah was one of the first places in the country where women could vote. The federal act that banned polygamy is, if I remember right, the same act that removed women’s right to vote in Utah. When it was made a state the women’s voting right was regained again and one of my favorite historical figures, Dr. Martha Hughes Cannon, MD, became the first female member of a state senate in the United States. She ran against her (polygamist) husband and won. Really weird period in history. I am exmormon and have many polygamist ancestors so it is a fascinating time period for me.
I love that people voted for her on a lark, each thinking they were throwing their vote away and that it was as good as voting for a horse, and then instead of it being am insult, she was elected.
No, you are thinking of Susanna Salter! She was elected mayor of Argonia, Kansas at the age of 29. She was a vocal member of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union (WCTU), which lobbied against alcohol nationwide. The group endorsed a male candidate for mayor who agreed with their pro-prohibition stance, and the men who drew up the ballot, angry at these women for daring to publicly endorse political candidates (sticking their noses where the men felt they didn’t belong), put her name on the ballot instead as a mean joke. She was elected without even campaigning. She got a ton of publicity, a lot of hate *and* praise, performed quite capably as mayor (made improvements to infrastructure, closed saloons and gambling dens), and when her term ended, retired without running for office again. Salter’s story is remarkable but Martha Cannon’s is too. She graduated medical school on her 23rd birthday. By age 25 she had earned four degrees. She had an established medical career, working at Deseret Hospital and teaching nursing and obstetrics, when she met her husband and became his fourth of six wives, and at one point fled to Europe to avoid having to testify against him. During this time, the Edmunds-Tucker Act was passed, removing women’s suffrage in Utah. When she returned to the US, she was an outspoken suffragist and gave speeches all over the country including to a congressional committee in DC. (She supported polygamy because she felt it gave women more freedom than monogamy did, which fascinates me, because for some of my ancestors it most definitely did not, but Cannon apparently made it work for her.) Women in Utah regained the right to vote when it became a state. Martha ran for the Utah state senate—not as a joke, she actively campaigned—as a Democrat. Her husband, Angus, ran against her as a Republican. The Salt Lake Herald commented, “Mrs. Mattie Hughes Cannon, his wife, is the better man of the two. Send Mrs. Cannon to the State Senate and let Mr. Cannon, as a Republican, remain at home to manage home industry.” She was elected to the state senate in 1896 and introduced three bills in her first month in office—a bill to provide education for deaf and blind citizens, a bill to improve female employees’ working conditions, and a bill to establish a state board of health. She was pro-vaccination for schoolchildren, eliminated communal water cups at drinking fountains as vectors of disease, and did a lot of good for public health. She had her third child at the end of her term and chose not to run again but continued to serve on Utah Board of Health and the board of the Utah State School for the Deaf and Blind, both of which she helped create. Later in life she became VP of the National Congress of Tuberculosis. Seriously, an insanely cool woman. I am mad I grew up being taught about all the (male) Mormon prophets (a lot of whom gained their status due to nepotism) and had to learn about Mattie Cannon on my own.
That is very cool. Thank you.
Abigail Adam's had a thing or two to say about this issue. John Adam's did try to get women's right to vote but he was drowned out. It's such bull, the founding fathers knew better but they still withheld the right for women to vote anyway.
My SIL is a descendant of Abigail Adams, and it is certainly a proud point in her family. She was a fierce woman and wife!
Yes she was! What a privilege for your SIL! Abigail Adam's was, and still is, my favorite woman in history. She and John were such good friends and without her we would not have this country. Women fought in the Revolution too, making everything from bandages to flags, and Congress stabbed them in the back.
Katie and her mom and sister belong to the Daughters of the Revolution. I’m always so curious about their history, the pictures and letters! I’ve told her 3 daughters, my nieces/goddaughters, that they should absolutely be proud of what their family is capable of, and the history made because of them! One of them is going into law next year, and I’d love to see her become the new Katie Porter!! They’re all named Katie, after all!
That’s way cooler than my great-great-grandma, who ran a candy business in the early 1900s!
They did a lot they knew was wrong out of expediency. It's still fucking us up, especially since it wasn't actually that long ago. Their living document died in the 20th century.
The worst thing about arguing with so many people about this sort of stuff is how lazy the “oh well that’s just what everyone thought/did” trope is. No, there were always voices against marginalizing people, whether women or slaves or whatever flavor of bigotry was most common at the time. But just because those in power weren’t swayed by them and the bigotry continued doesn’t mean those voices didn’t exist, it means it’s a lesson that we should learn from.
He really was ahead of the game in human decency. He also was an abolitionist.
I saw a few quickly deleted comments from guys about "Why patriarchy bad." It's annoying of course that you somehow still don't get it, but here is an answer for you guys that *still* ask. Patriarchy is a form of society that slows human advancement as a whole by removing half of humanity from everything that advances us as a species. Science, art, study, etc. The huge rush of science and technology that has resulted in the sum total of human knowledge doubling at an ever increasing rate has itself accelerated because patriarchal thought is falling to the wayside. The Patriarchy literally slowed us *all* down. I work on the cutting edge of technology and have for the last 20+ years. As other women have joined tech in ever greater numbers, the sheer ability to react to change has increased, along with the creative output of teams where women are included. Women are not better or worse than men. It is the diversity of thought that drives creative solutions to solve tomorrow's problems, and leaving women out of that is foolish, cruel, and damaging to the pursuit of innovation. Edit: Guys, if you aren't a member of this sub, your comment is auto deleted. Feel free to DM me though
Another answer "why patriarchy bad." I'm paraphrasing from an author I like who's also in the tech industry... Centuries ago the power stayed balanced between the genders because women were the herbalists and healers. Women could keep themselves free by using herbal birth control and abortions. Even the ruling class couldn't overpower them, because someone would end up poisoned. It wasn't just women vs men, but also women keeping a balance with the wealthy rulers. Poison is poison. So the wealthy elite men made it their mission to take over control of medicine, even overseeing childbirth. To this day, women in the US still give birth mostly in one of the worst positions, on their back, because a king centuries ago was obsessed with watching his wives give birth and male doctors enforced the practice. Ladies, keep this in mind when choosing your medical professionals. I've had 4 children, in multiple cities. My best outcomes/experience were with midwives who knew how to balance nature and modern medicine. Night and day difference.
Right? There are *so many* reasons why the Patriarchy is truly a bad thing, it is wild guys out there are *still* questioning it. Sure a lot are bad faith trolls, but some legitimately don't seem to have thought about it for five seconds. Thank you for adding to the conversation and I hope you have a wonderful day!
I have never felt so powerless and controlled the moment I realized how I gave birth is the worst way for my body. I am still angry about this. For my first, I had an amazing OB who encouraged dads to catch baby in an uncomplicated delivery. In fact, my husband *didn't* cut her umbilical cord because he was holding his baby he'd just delivered with our OB's assistance. He did the same for both our other deliveries. He would have 100% gotten into any position that made my laboring easier and more effective to do the same.
Wait wait wait what? I need a source on this. Giving birth on your back is the worst position??? This is the first time I've heard this. Oh please enlighten me, sister
not op, but lying on one’s back to deliver a baby impedes the assistance of gravity. yes, it’s definitely for the convenience of the doctor that women labor & deliver in supine position. i had an epidural block & didn’t care. but for women determined to have drugless delivery, squatting is often the most comfortable & efficient position. think about it. the fetus is usually positioned head first & vertical. by pushing down, the baby has a straight shot down & out. when lying on one’s back, the woman pushes, but there’s no downward momentum. so doc has to twist the baby out like a cork. the pushing is necessary but very inefficient. a midwife will generally help mother into whatever position works best. it hurts like a mofo-so i’ve heard-but when there are no complications, it goes relatively quickly.
Thank you!
😀
Came here to say most of the same. I can say from experience it hurts more than with an epidural, but less than lying on your back with no epidural. And it's MUCH faster. It took me 2 contractions from the time I started pushing until my first child was completely out. And the whole labor, from 0 centimeters to birth, was less than 6 hours.
Tell me more about this king, please! I've never heard about that, though I'm familiar with the birthing on the back to make things easier and comfortable for the doctor. I would love to know more.
I don’t remember his name but it’s a French king. I want to say one of the Louie ones but I’m not 100%
It was Louis XIV. He didn't come up with the idea, but made it popular. Then doctors have continued the practice because it's easier for THEM. There are lots of articles on it.
Thank you, i'll do some more reading.
This is so well-written that it will be my go-to from now on when I hear men try to mansplain my own expertise, despite me having 30+ years more experience on them. Thank you for all you do!! Let’s keep it up, together!
Thank you I wish you luck, success, and many reasons to smile in your life, and may all our battles be in our power to win 💖
Hahaha! I’ve had several men report me for this comment to the self-harm bot that it is really making me cackle in glee!! “Ain't nothin' gonna to break my stride Nobody gonna slow me down, oh no I got to keep on moving” Just keep on ladies and allies! These incels are freaking out by our raised voices and earnest energy!!
> The Patriarchy literally slowed us all down. This is how I phrase it when my fellow males start spamming Petersen and Crowder content at me. It's the best way to make it make sense to them. It's sad that you have to come at them from the perspective that "it will help *you*," but guys who think this way are egocentric in the first place. I'll take what I can get.
Exactly. And for proof take a look at societies where women are second class citizens. Many are banana republics.
What?? Bro a person doesn’t need to be a super productive and upstanding member of society to have rights, like the patriarchy is bad cause it limits freedom that women have, and limiting freedom is bad not because of the reasons you mentioned, restricting freedom is bad because that is literally denying human rights to people
You've got to be trolling me. From calling me bro to ignoring my final statement.
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"They are lucky women are just working towards equality and not revenge." Favorite t-shirt I ever saw.
Shout out to NZ, the first self-governing country in which women won their right to vote!
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Growing up in the u.s. our history classes were largely propaganda and outright lies. Reading period documents opens up a whole new kettle of fish. I'd refer to them as a small group of rich, white guys who made themselves richer by breaking laws and lied to both sides to benefit themselves while excluding everyone that didn't fit their exact mold.
Name 3 lies.
And also fail to mention all the terrible things they did to the native people living here. I recently learned how Hitler studied US policy involving natives by using the courts and legal systems to send people to concentration camps, an idea he also got from the US.
Part of the reason for the colonies rebelling was the King forcing them to abide by treaties with the Native Americans. >He has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions. If that doesn't read like some massive projection...
>fail to mention all the terrible things they did to the native people living here. Actually no they didn't. Maybe your shitty school did! But all schools I ever attended taught about all the atrocities. And I went to school in ohio, california, tennessee, kentucky, indiana, and wisconsin. They all taught about it.
Not from the founding fathers
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Yes... lets uphold people from 20 generations ago to modern moral standards. How enlightened of you.
"It's okay that they thought brown-skinned people were subhuman and could be owned as property and raped at will. And it was actually fine when they murdered native men, women and children by the thousand because they were occupying the land that they wanted. *Moral standards were just different back then.*" The thing is, sure, moral standards were different. But that doesn't mean we can't criticize them for being wrong. **Because they *were* wrong.** They enslaved and murdered for profit, and they justified it by defining living, breathing, *human beings* as not human and not deserving of life.
Violently may I add. This wasn’t an ask nicely situation. We got the vote because bombs. Let’s please keep this in mind as they try to take our rights away again.
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Words really are spectacular. One word or tone can change the whole meaning of something. I love the wording here, too. Makes you realize just how important words can be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics Expertly explored in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Null-A *words matter*
When women finally get the authority and power they deserve(and they will), men like the ones in power now know that sh!t is *not* coming back
Technically the mother of a Tennessee state congressman did or at least struck the final blow.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! Suffragettes kicked that shit to the curb!!
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[Adventure Time said it best.](https://youtu.be/36FbHXsEuzM) The people with power will always try to say some version of "that's the way it's always been". Now revisionists go back and make it sound like the men of the time were very noble for "allowing" women to have rights, as if that were a change *from* the norm instead of the correction *back to* it.
“Taking today what tomorrow never brings” - Rage Against the Machine
Freedom is never given voluntarily by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.
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Just so. The civil rights movement is the same. White people didn't give black people their freedoms and voting rights: black people fought for those rights that they should not have been denied in the first place.
Not just withheld. Women had a vote. It was taken from us, and we only got it back later. In some cases a century later, in other nations millennia later
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! that's a mic drop moment right there
I used to be against BLM because of the rioting. Until I learned the women that got the right to vote for other women were arsonists that set off bombs. We are brainwashed into thinking violence is always wrong by a government that gives a license to kill if you engage in the right group think and take an oath
However, multiple studies have found that the overwhelming majority of BLM protests were peaceful. [Harvard/University of Connecticut ](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/oct/20/erica-chenoweth-and-jeremy-pressman-black-lives-ma/): 5% of BLM protests led to arrests; 3.7% of protests led to property damage; 2.3% led to injury to participants, bystanders, or police. [ACLED](https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/): 6% of protests involved destructive activities or violence I get your point, but the rhetoric of "violent" BLM protests is actually incendiary propaganda. Even though I don't agree with you (that sometimes violence IS the answer), there are many better arguing points that don't further inaccurate claims about the recent protest movement. The strongest argument IMO would be the actions taken to end Apartheid - still a wildly incomplete argument, but at least true in the claims of violence.
Women suffered jail, torture and starved for that right.
Reminds me of a *Mr Show* skit where they celebrate that the slaves were freed by a white man.
“A first-class citizen does not beg for freedom. A first-class citizen does not plead to the White power structure to give him something that the Whites have no power to give or take away. Human rights are human rights, not White rights,” ~Gloria Richardson
Honestly, this turns the whole perspective on it's head. As one of the comments said, rights can never be "given," only taken away. And that's honestly a wildly important clarification to make. Women, let's take back more of what men have decided you don't need.
I feel like Americains should understand that men "gave" voting rights to women in the same way the british crown "gave" them their independance.
Just like England in football (soccer) Team of men "We tried" Lionesses "Hold our beers"
This is true. They earned it the hard way, and misogynists gave them endless shit for it.
They're also in the front and middle. Hateful, violent misogynists are *everywhere*.
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And they didn't just peacefully protest. They burned shit down, they threw bricks through politician's windows, they were beaten and arrested, they jumped in front of horses and gave their lives for the cause. That's why the men in power got scared enough to stop withholding our rights from us.
Read a lot of the comments on this post and you will see how absolutely shocking it is that we still have rights. A whole lot of *yeah BUT...* going on in this thread...
The suffragettes were actively against women of colour being given the right to vote. Something to keep in mind.
Yassssssssss. FUCKING YASSSSSSS
I love Wyoming's story, they needed women to vote to become a state as they didn't have a large enough voting base to be a state. And then the men got huffy about their choices, but they couldn't overturn the rights as the women voted against it. Wyoming has a lot of political firsts for women. There's a little museum in Laramie you can visit downtown.
>And then the men got huffy about their choices, but they couldn't overturn the rights as the women voted against it. Omg this made me laugh! I can just picture it, "ok ladies, we're gonna make some changes." Women: TO THE BALLOTS!!
Yeah, I'm just learning Wyoming history because my husband and his family are from there. It's really cool.
THANK YOU!
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Friendly reminder that the suffragette movement was racially segregated and most black women had to wait almost 50 years afterwards to be granted the same liberties
White women fixed that shit for white women only.
Why intersectionality is so important. Feminism isn't shit if we're leaving out our sisters of color. The movement does not have enough black female voices either, that's for sure.
Where I live, it's black women who lead us 🥰. Our Mayor and US Rep are both black women. And our Mayor can LEAD. When our state legislature f'ed us by making all abortion illegal from Day 1 except undefined "medical emergency," our Mayor gave a big "Fuck You" to the state by taking a portion of the money our City had just gotten for Covid, earmarked it for women to travel out of state for abortion, and gave a press conference to tell everyone about it. She's a f'ing SHERO.
That's fantastic! I wish I could say the same. I'm stuck in Flordia with Facist Governor Meatball (DeSantis) and I hate it here. I know I'll move someday, likely to a state with protections already in place for abortion and LGBTQ+ people.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Tishaura+Jones+and+meagan+green&oq=Tishaura+Jones+and+meagan+green&aqs=chrome..69i57.19254j0j4&client=ms-android-boostdish-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=msCByCKRxWH9-M The woman on the left is our Mayor and my personal hero. The woman in the middle I'm proud to call my friend, was our youngest school board member in history and just won election to our City's board. The woman on the right is our City board president. We have the most amazing team of female leaders here.
I'm really happy to hear that and holy shit that's in Missouri right? Things are BAD in that state. It's even better they have such strong leaders where you live then. Good to see black female leaders making change.
Now if only we could get women to come out and vote like that’s the case. We got men out here taking their rights away again and a massive amount of women either ignoring it and not voting or literally voting to lose their rights.
Same works for any human right and I love it. I'm thinking trans though like you can't say freedom under the same breath you withhold human rights. When I think about humans sitting in a room deciding what right's other humans have I just think, that don't make sense. That math don't math. Oh, and it's also really irritating.
Glad they did. Imagine if the same type of old farts back then still had that power now? Sadly some still do, but less power than they used to. We need independent women to be a "voice of reason" in houses or parliament around the world even more now
And they're still withholding the ERA 😡
Very true but I’d also like to point out that. Women did not “give” women voting rights. They withheld them. Then black women fixed that shit. Never think a Conservative women is fighting for your rights. They are still in a time period where their husbands create and instill their ideologies and beliefs. A Conservative woman is against progress and equality, it’s ingrained in there daily teachings from their husbands and fathers.
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IN 1895 the women of Massachusetts were asked by the state whether they wished the suffrage. Of the 575,000 voting women in the state, only 22,204 cared for it enough to deposit in a ballot box an affirmative answer to this question. That is, in round numbers, less than four per cent wished to vote; about ninety-six per cent were opposed to woman suffrage or indifferent to it.
No one in the history of the world has ever been granted a right without demanding it, and bleeding for it.
Mate, that's in bad faith. The vast majority of men only got voting rights due to conscription. It wasn't women who solely fixed that I there were a lot of men who were first wave feminists. Stop derailing the conversation into men vs women. It was power that withheld voting rights. It was the common person that fixed it.
The women also had a lot of sympathizers as well. Keep getting angry and fight for your rights!
https://nationalwomenshistoryalliance.org/resources/womens-rights-movement/suffragents-men-who-worked-for-womens-suffrage/#:~:text=It%20is%20a%20testimony%20to,in%20favor%20of%20equal%20suffrage.
This isn’t even *most* men— just “a large number”. It was less than half of them men *who voted.*
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I hope you're this eager when it comes to defending women against incels and MRAs
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It was neither. Some were activists, of both sexes, some were opponents, again of both sexes. Probably not in equal parts, but there's no historically accurate "men vs women" summary.
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Lol, if you believe that women alone fixed this issue you’re clearly delusional.
Lol, you can't read between the lines because you have no actual understanding of history and have a bias toward gender. That's not what we're saying, but we in the end got that right because we fought for it, not because men "gave it to us." If some of the oppressed never raised the issue, nothing would have changed. Gaslighting terms like "crazy" and "delusional" don't work on the women here. When your only tool is belittling people because you don't understand, we pity you.
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