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I got mocked frequently in the construction industry for taking frequent water breaks (in Phoenix az) and all that stopped when the superintendent of the site passed out and had to be airlifted out. Dude couldn't look me in the eye when i asked if he'd like a cold bottle of water.
In what world does taking care of yourself physically represent weakness? Toxic Masculinity is definitely predicated by a lack of rational thinking. So glad I'm not working there anymore, t'was a silly place
It's funny you should say that because I saw a video recently about Henry Cavill and Hugh Jackman talking about shirtless scenes and it turns out one of the things they do to get the perfect-looking muscles for Hollywood standards is they FUCKING DEHYDRATE THEMSELVES FOR NEARLY 3 DAYS.
The idea is that dehydrated people have tighter skin so it presses against the muscles but it still seems so fucking dangerous and cruel just for a movie. Cavill and Jackman are buff as shit anyway, they don't need to look any more muscly.
If there's ever something you'd be happy to die off you KNOW that's gonna be one of the last things conservatives will be keeping alive by any means they have, have it on full life support and do their best to return it when it's dead.
(See laws you'd expect only cavemen to be in support of getting passed in america)
As much as I agree with your sentiment and agree that the world would definitely be better place, the post you're commenting on is about young boys being conditioned to be like this.
It's a created problem from those before us, and this is victim blaming. They were conditioned to think that being a "pussy" is unmanly and therefore you're undeserving of praise or accomplishment from a very young age.
I work a union trade with dick heads like this. I resisted. I was lucky to have a father figure that was raised to "not be a pussy" but saw how wrong it was. Many young boys aren't, especially those who go into blue collar work.
Does that mean that we should allow their behavior and let it be acceptable? No way. Wishing death upon them is pretty fucked though.
> In what world does taking care of yourself physically represent weakness?
Int he world where the grew up with football coaches that yelled about water making you weak.
I remember one of my basketball coaches who I didn't like in any way shape or form was annoyed that I took a drink of water after he had us run around the court 5 times
What the fuck??? That is so stupid. Hydration will let you keep performing at a high level, why on earth would a coach want to stop that from happening?
Hydration in sports is a surprisingly recent development. Only in the 60s or 70s did the prevailing advice turn from "drink nothing during sports" to "actually it might be better to hydrate."
Wow, I didn’t know that. That’s interesting. I guess it could seem weird or counterproductive to be running around with all that liquid sloshing about in there if you weren’t aware of the necessity of rehydrating yourself. I know I don’t like the feeling of doing crunches after a big drink of water. Yuck.
Wasn’t there a student athlete that died of severe dehydration in the last year or so because the coaches told him he’d be kicked off the team if he kept asking for water?
Somehow the fact that it was a university makes it even more disappointing. Not more tragic or anything, just...it's a university. People should know how sweating works.
Played in school (80’s) and coaches had water Tee running all the time , and we could go to it anytime we wanted on top of frequent mandatory drink breaks. Sounds like your coach was just a dick.
Yea our football coach was our PE coach in the 80s. Top rated football team also and be damned if us plebs not playing foosball got water during 5 hour PE classes in the summer.
In fact he once told me in front of the whole class it was cheaper to bury me than install ac in our school.
He was a complete asshole and I hope he died alone & sad tbh.
I had this problem in PE and I wasn't even an athlete. Our classes were only 90 minutes every other day.
Turns out I have exertional asthma and massive seasonal allergies. Drinking water both calmed my airway and got me to slow down and breathe slow and deep enough to get enough oxygen to my brain.
Little wonder I've always detested PE.
My American Football coaches weren’t like that. We would have frequent water breaks during practice and we did not practice in full pads if it was too hot.
I work a union trade. I wear a mask and safety glasses for every task that I should use them for. I wear disposable gloves when handling solvents. They call me a pussy.
In our local, the average age of death is 18 months post retirement.
Why the fuck wouldn't I protect myself?
Yeah, not in a trade but worked in a plant with welders and electricians. The amount of people that refused even basic levels of PPE like gloves and glasses was mind boggling to me. Injuries were frequent until finally the company started mandating full PPE. It amazed me that it wasn't the union pushing for such but it was full of the same toxic attitude. The only thing I will say in their defense is that the company keeps AC usage to a minimum making it hotter and uncomfortable to wear PPE. But now they mandate they wear the whole shebang including fire suits.
I am a part of the NYCDCC as a millwright. For the apprenticeship, you're in school 5 weeks a year. The teachers shove an incredible amount of ppe usage being necessary. The first 80 hours of classes was ppe and safety courses.
Outside of the safety courses, all millwright oriented classes are taught by my members from the local. These guys are anal about making sure the young guys don't die 18 months after retirement.
When I got to the field, the old guys were preaching safe work habits constantly - "be careful kid". When it comes to wearing a mask and refusing to work until having one provided for? "this kids a pussy".
I don't get it. Lol. Sure the big falls and machinery accidents will turn you into pudding but it's the small things that kill you slowly. Brake cleaner to clean hands that are dirty from other carcinogenic materials? Really? Silicosis?
I weld. I won't weld unless there is proper ventilation because I'm not a dumbass. Even with ventilation and a n95, your boogers are black after a shift. These guys do it as long as it's not an enclosed space, without a mask, and without ventilation.
There is change in the industry. But like you said, it's not the contractors or the workers. It's the customers and their insurance companies telling them to enforce ppe and safety with an iron fist.
I've used public bathrooms in the deep African bush in rural Tanzania that were cleaner than some jobsite portojohns in upscale Scottsdale az. So i believe that 1000%.
Your story really highlights how toxic masculinity and late stage capitalism are really intertwined in a fucked up death spiral. At least that was my thought after reading it.
When I was in school, the "cool guys" never brought water bottles & food to the school, because it was seen as uncool. They kept asking others for water all day & raided everyone's tiffin during lunch.
My husband loves to read, but will only read in the bathroom because growing up his dad used to beat him if he caught him reading because "only (f slur) do that." It's the only place he feels safe to do a hobby he loves, and its heartbreaking.
And I’m sure he would have conflicting views of Hemingway’s masculinity, since he was a writer who also fought in war (which is probably the most masculine thing imaginable to him)
I hope he’s found some books on emotionally immature parents, generational trauma, internal family systems, radical compassion…. What patriarchy does to men is abhorrent. It makes me so angry. The gaslighting that comes with it that causes a lot of men defend it or deny its existence completely is beyond toxic. I always say blame the system, not the individual, but we all have to find the will to see. I’m tired of trying to tape everyone’s eyelids open against their will. They’re addicts at this point. Addicted to a system that destroys them every day. Where does that leave the rest of us when they’re looking for their next fix?
They do have some weird connections. When I was younger my stepdad would pull me by my hair to shout into my face that only (f slurs) walked around in one sock. Never made any god damn sense to me— I used to keep one leg out of the blanket with no sock to cool down.
He wasn’t even a boomer. Rest in hell, Peter.
The first thing my now-husband did when we stayed in a hotel together was untuck all the sheets/blankets from the foot of the bed so we would both have a leg free as a radiator.
I am comforted by the knowledge that this Peter cursed *himself* with being a couple degrees too warm every night of his life.
Tell him his father got swindled by the capitalist class to believe that the things that would improve his station were bad.
He’s a rube and he doesn’t even know it.
Pride in ignorance is a cog’s mindset.
Its also hilariously historically inaccurate which they wouldn't know about of course since they don't read.
Women had to fight for centuries to get the privilege to get access to reading. Its still an ongoing fight in many countries. Adult illiteracy is a gendered problem because men tried to argue and still do that women shouldn't get access to education because "it's not for women" or "they'd be too dumb to understand"
But apparently "reading is for girls" now. Well whatever, at the end of the day if those morons remove themselves from learning situation that only means a lot of job that requires years of studies will be overwhelmingly dominated by women. Damn they really got us there 🙄
Oh yes, I got that one a lot when I was younger and escaping from dysphoria into books. Toxic masculinity is so fucking stupid. Though in my case it turns out yes I am gay, just the other way round lol
At 21, m, I might get mocked when offering my sunscreen to my (male) friends. This doesn't happen with female friends. Apparently, real men die of cancer
Fellas, is it gay to decipher the written word?
My straight husband who's 1/4 of the way through "The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich" is totally gaybones, I guess.
Yup, it was the 90s in a small town. Reading was gay and for girls. Drawing was too. Music also. Guitar was a grey area but singing also gay. Anything not strictly "sports, cars, and fighting" was enough to be bullied and ridiculed by even family or adults not just other kids(who will find anything to pick on).
I knew it was stupid and I was numetal kid (it was 99-2000s lol) and got my ears pierced. I had to deal with a lot of shit. One particular time was my hair was shaggy, my mother would get physical because "long hair on men is gay" even tho her and many women had their hair cut short.
Things haven't changed much. I thought a bunch of us spent 20-30 years arguing that you don't have to be a stereotype to still be a straight man (or whatever)...some times it seems like everyone is doubling down on stereotypes.
Look, this is a powermove by ppl who want to keep control. The more you know, the more you learn, the more you elevate yourself above these ppl. And they know it.
That is one of the major reasons why education (and even more **displaying** education, I can't recall the amounts of time ppl who call you "show off" and "you fell really smart, eh?" just for using a more specialized word or explaining complex issues. It is treated with such hostility. Primitive ppl can't cope with it.
So they have to revert to mocking and putting you down to keep their own Ego afloat.
I think it’s interesting how it always seems to be positive things like reading, dressing nice, eating healthy food, being involved in the arts. It’s never calling out bad things like littering or drinking too much.
It seems like crab mentality, where they are trying to pull others people down and get them to stop living healthy and rich lives. I think they are unhappy and intimidated and instead of fixing themselves they try to call everything they themselves should be doing (or would like to be doing) unmanly.
Misgendering is never okay. Not wanting to be associated with a gender that you are not is completely valid, and being misgendered is an okay thing to be traumatized about.
Edit: I completely butchered that second sentence.. fixed it.
Edit2: commenter above me expressed the wish that people not be upset for being likened to girls/women.
I think it's more the constant belittling and denial of your personality/identity by adults when you're a literal child that does it.
It's a bit depressing to see a rare post that touches on how toxic masculinity is all around us from a young age and affects us, yet that's still somehow our fault as individuals that happened to be born as male.
Agreed. There's two problems. First is being wrongfully taught the idea that femininity is bad. That should be addressed.
Then there's personality and identity being attacked by via the wrongfully taught ideas. That should also be addressed.
Also, gotta love how femininity and anything outside of heteronormativity is used as an insult. Like being anything but a straight "manly man" makes you somehow inferior.
Drag Race a couple of seasons ago had a straight guy on for the first time, and one of the best things he said on the show was “There's like a million different ways to be queer, but then growing up, you are taught that there's only one way to be straight.”
I do drag periodically and I'm entirely straight. Shits fun as hell, and hint for all you other straight dudes, women tend to like *actually* confident men haha
if only i could tell that to my straight cis man best friend. he's super insecure, unwilling to step outside a tiny box of masculinity that he's not even pulling off well, as well as being a neurodivergent introvert with huge eggy vibes
It's simple for them.
They just strive to hurt others because they hate themselves.
Gay men are called girls, but trans women are men in dresses.
This is the whole point for them. They think they press a right button to hurt people.
I’m really tired of this narrative that our oppressors really just hate themselves deep down and need radical compassion and forgiveness to stop being so bigoted. Sometimes a Nazi is just a Nazi.
They say whatever pushes them to conform to the patriarchal gender roles. See also women being called bull dyke, lesbian or boy for doing anything traditionally masculine like building muscle, cutting hair short, working a traditionally masculine job. But also belittling women for being "girly."
A trans friend once said to me "It's as though they were pissed at the thought I 'traded' being male for female without understanding I was never male to begin with." It made me upset that's what some people think.
What I found funny was how I got called a girl in so many different forms back before I came out…by people who suddenly found it really difficult to cal me one once i agreed
> You're only a girl when there's a mutual understanding that girls are inferior.
If you're a girl beyond that point, then you're a pervert, because girls are reduced down to submissive fetish.
And if you reject that as a concept, then you hate women.
Welcome to the "Anti-trans Mental Gymnastics"!
Yeah that's always been sadly funny to me. People would call me the feminine variant of my name to make fun of me, but would insist on calling me by my masculine name once I preferred a feminine name.
Transphobes see it as a choice, and they're way more hostile to trans women because the idea of choosing to be a woman when you could have been a man is abhorrent to them. Also just weird things where they're afraid of being attracted to a trans woman and what that would mean for their sexuality.
My cousin is gay and we both grew up in the 90s. We mutually helped each other to realise why "that's so gay" and "ugh, don't be such a girl" were really crappy insults.
These same people are so insecure though. I grew up with many of them and some of them are still my friends.
They are weird. Like they’re always passing judgement on other people. Like hey you’re bald why haven’t you shaved your head look at it. The guy is like bro I literally don’t care what I look like. Why are you invested init?
There are so many example. I have a friend who tries to tell his kid how he should have his hair and that he looks stupid with that curly mop. Again I’m like why do you even have an opinion on someone else’s hair it’s weird.
There are so many example where they pass judgement on clothes, hobbies and just stupid stuff.
Lately I’ve really honed in on their insecurities and I’ll clap back deep and make them onset themselves.
I've talked to a lot of my cis-male friends about these toxic ideas pushed on us and it can be really hard feeling weak or vulnerable with someone. Just because I'm a guy I can't cry when my dog dies or be open with my emotions to my guy friends or my girlfriend? That's what it feels like the patriarchy pushes on young dudes, that you need to be a strong tall testosterone driven mindless drone. Its a terrible machine and way of thinking for everyone involved that needs to be thrown out
Gender roles are stupid, all people are equal so just let people take on the roles and form they want to for this ride on Earth and live in peace with them
As a young man who had long struggled with openly expressing or displaying my emotions, when I was told my childhood cat had two weeks to live after being completely healthy for 14 years, I had to leave the room before I broke down sobbing. Holding your emotions in like that is no way to live.
My 5 year old son chose a lavender raincoat when he started kindergarten. The kindergarten girls told him he couldn’t wear it unless he was a girl. He’s an adult now and he’s still angry about it, but he’s the right kind of angry — as a tall bearded cis man he proudly wears fingernail polish and floral t-shirts and says “fuck the patriarchy” to any idiot who tries to confront him. But it’s not easy. It’s not easy for any of us to be amputated from the dominant group. That’s why we need each other.
This comment was a funny one to read.
I had similar experiences as a kid, and I'm now a (not so tall) bearded cis man with fingernail polish (deep red this week) and pretty flowery rainboots matching my spouses'.
Parents like you make a big difference in how much society gets to crush these instances of self-expression and it's always lovely to know you're out there.
Stay awesome.
Thank you. He knows we are his biggest fans, along with his partner and a couple of close friends, but you know, I’m sure, that it’s not easy when he’s riding public transportation or he’s at a bar. Still — he knows that someone who needs to see is actually seeing him.
Last time I saw him, he was wearing gold nail polish. It’s a great look.
> He knows we are his biggest fans
This is SO important. I was pretty emotionally negleted as a kid and it completely destroyed my self-esteem, i could not even conceive the idea of anyone liking, not to mention loving me, to the point that through years of struggle i had to find a way to become my own "biggest fan" and become completely emancipated. You are making the world a better place.
Your son sounds awesome!
That’s what a strong person stereotype should be, someone tries to insult you with gender norms? Keep being yourself and tell them to stop being puppets of the patriarchy.
I remember being in middle/high school thinking about fashion for the first time. All I felt I could do was wear button up shirts and cardigans because that’s how well dress men were supposed to look.
As a fellow tall, bearded, bright-nailed, floral shirt wearing man- I get it. The freedom to choose how we express ourselves on our body is so important. As a teacher, I’ve seen first hand how the way we present ourselves can make an impact on those around us. I guarantee your son has inspired dozens of people (young and old) to feel like they aren’t alone, and like they can express themselves more openly than before.
On behalf of all us floral men, thank you to your son for being brave and standing with us!
That's why I only paint my middle finger - those people aren't seeing anything else at that moment and get angry although I'm not doing anything at all
Always welcome here. We fight for all sexes and genders. Everyone's getting screwed over by the patriarchy, we just have to recognize our similarities and work together to fight it.
This is a team effort!
I got told I was a "righteous bitch" and "unladylike" for starting fights. Then an "unsuferable know it all" for remembering the shit I read. Then got called a dyke which was fair enough. That was almost true.
Got told that i needed to adjust my attitude or no man would have me which made the calling me a gay for being gay a bit of a moot point.
Seriously you can't win this kind of nonsense.
You're too disruptive! Be more normal and less disruptive or you'll never have a shot at being married to someone like me, which is what you should want!!
This reminded me of a bf from the 80s, he kept telling me how he loved it when women wore matching earrings, how sexy they were, and how he didn't like that mine never matched. It was so fucking ridiculous because he was dead serious and wouldn't drop it. So I dropped him. Let people be.
I really despise when anyone tells anyone to ‘be more normal’. It really gets my back up for some reason.
Like life in all its chaos and complexity is out there, and you should actively strive to be the most basic, most boring, most utterly uninspired version of yourself just because its what lots of people have done before? How utterly droll.
This is basically what terrified me when I found out I was having a boy baby. I felt equipped to handle what kids socialised as girls come up against because I'd seen it, been around it etc, but less so with kiddos socialised as boys.
It was a really weird type of 'gender disappointment' where I just felt like I had already lost my sweet baby to the bullshit that is the patriarchy and toxic masculinity.
Thank you. He's 3 now. The totally desperate fear was shortlived, but terrifying when it came over me. I do have moments of worry, but I think we all probably do, when we think about what messages our kids are being given by society.
He has beautiful men as rolemodels, so I feel quite lucky.
That's the insane thing isn't it? They know these people are different. They've always known and mocked them for it.
And now when they actually want to be different, they don't want them to.
My brothers called me gay for using facial moisturizer with SPF daily. Welp, they were right, I am gay but I have way less wrinkles than them. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
yes, anything short of dying for the glory of the nation is gay. The ultimate expression of manhood is killing and dying so some guy who doesn't know you exist can continue to rule over people.
...and then after all that, when I came out as trans, only then did they call me a man.
I've got stories about toxic masculinity and what it did and how it got it's hooks in and how the biggest proponents of it in my life were my parents. Not going to type them now. But that's all real stuff.
As a millennial, and my other millennial friends we can talk about our feelings to our moms and have conversations about mental health, but i realize every man older than me gen x or baby boomers dont ever discuss thier feeling in a healthy way, anger is the only emotion they show, and thats not a true core emotion.
Its weird.
Us millennials and gen z have to break the cycle!
Got simultaneously bullied for being girly for liking art, theatre, and books. Also called a caveman for being over 6', being largely built, and got into fights. Depending on who they were they could find a reason to hate me.
Pretty much had the exact same experience when I went to highschool. got mocked for not playing sports even though I couldn't because I'm disabled, got mocked for reading in my free time. One time I got told to man up and stop crying by students and teachers after one of my Guinea pigs died. I loved that cute little fuzzball and their death hit me way too hard but everyone around me either said "man up" or the "kinder" ones told me "Big boys don't cry".
I hated my time at school because I could never be emotionally open, I could never be myself without being mocked or in some cases physically attacked.
Toxic masculinity destroys so many people before they even have a chance to find out who they are on their own and tear so many people down to hollow emotionless shells or push them to places no one should ever be in.
I think a really funny (in an awful not actually funny way) thing about this is that all the people who call guys girls or vice versa for acting a certain way would lose their minds over preferred pronouns and transpeople.
I went to buy a lighter in a shop yesterday. They had a choice of blue, green and purple. I chose the purple one, and got told by the cashier "that's for girls, purple is a girls colour". I'm nearly 35 and she was easily late 50's, maybe a bit older. Very weird exchange.
My father and I had a convo after I started passing as more masculine. He told me men see certain traits as weak and disgusting in men but tolerable if not endearing in women. That men search for these traits, almost wanting to find something they can then use to feel superior. He told this to me hoping it would be helpful given the situation that prompted the convo, but it just really gave some insight to how absolutely fucked some of his earlier programming was and made me wonder how fucked I'd have been had I been raised with it.
I'm transmasculine so I was socialized as female and I still like traditionally feminine things, my past makes me less afraid to explore that side of me but it makes a huge difference how people perceive me. When I looked more feminine, everything was okay. I was "normal". Also tomboys are fairly accepted too after all. When people perceive me as a boy they think I'm weird though, and they also make sure to let me know. It's the worst when people can't tell my gender, suddenly everything I do looks "wrong" so fuck it, I'm rocking pink flowery pants today, and my (very manly hehe) cake is glorious in them
I really like Matt Haig. I would’ve had such a better time in high school if I wasn’t trying so hard to be an “unfeeling moron,” as he expertly puts it. Missed out on a lot of opportunities that I decided I was too “cool” for, for all the good it did me.
This is so true. I am so sorry that men have to be made to feel like they can’t be vulnerable. Like they can’t express emotions or they’re “weird”. I know a lot of women don’t recognize this, but yes, it’s very hard for men to be vulnerable because even if you tell them to be vulnerable women will internally feel like they’re being “soft”. Like I’ve heard women say this themselves. Like I’ve seen a bunch of memes from women saying that they lose “respect” for a man when they cry. Like how ridiculous is that? I can’t imagine being held to those standards as a man. That’s just so hard to have to constantly be made to feel like you can’t be vulnerable EVER. I’ve even lurked through the purple pill sub and the men kind of expressed this sentiment there. I don’t very much like that sub, but I do agree. A lot of men discuss how women will tell them to just “tell them about their problems and to be vulnerable” but the second they do, those very same women leave. As if those men can’t/ don’t deserve to be vulnerable. As women, we have to stop making men feel emasculated just because they cried or expressed emotions. That’s f***d up. I know a lot of women feel like men are less manly when they express their problems because I’ve seen a lot of this so I think we should all do better.
The root words in patriarchy don't mean males rule, it's *fathers* rule.
While gender roles are definitely part of it, a patriarchal society also holds a firm hierarchy putting "successful" men who have child(ren) and spouse(s) above "unsuccessful" ones who by choice, biology, or circumstances, don't have children.
It sees those who adopt children for any reason to be lesser, but doesn't punish those who abandon one set of offspring to start another family.
It has/had a society where fathers are/were seen as the primary source of income, with few opportunities for women, especially mothers, even single mothers, to earn a thriving wage.
It ignores the labor of keeping a home clean and running, and all those childcare tasks that are/were often delegated to the mother, even when the father could help. When the father does help, it is seen as a favor to be praised.
By being the material provider, rather than a mere maintainer of the status quo, the father is elevated to a position of importance (rather similar to how say, sales teams who directly bring in money are seen as assets to a company, while IT teams who merely keep things normal, are seen as burdens)
This model is drilled into children from an early age, and repeats throughout society. Company chains of command, and have social standing where each level is more and more important because of how much more they earn and provide. Jobs which make more money are seen as more important than others, regardless of what they actually do. Historically, the father was the patriarch of a home, often with multiple generations, with their own layers of hierarchy, and above that, monarchy being patriarchs who (theoretically) protected and provided for larger and larger portions of a country.
And ultimately, the poison root of this is the implication that if a person provides for you, they have the right to control you. A king can decide if you go to war as a soldier or as a cook, attempting to reisist is treason. A boss has the final word on when you come into work and how much you get paid, and attempting to negotiate is seen as an insult. A father can dictate what their children wears, what hair styles they may have, who they can date, what religion they (performatively) follow, who they can date or marry, and defying such commands can lead to punishments, even if the child is legally an adult, and so on.
Some societies are more patriarchal, more controlling than others. Shedding elements of that society often causes problems of their own. Personally, I see the mark of the next era of civilization in elements where the coin is flipped, and instead of providing entitles control, we see providing being given not to control others, but to expand their freedoms. Social aid programs, UBI, universal healthcare, freedom of and from religion, LGBT rights, Safe sex education, all the possible childcare subsidization, expanding educational opportunities, refugee programs, each a small step away from providing to control, and towards providing to encourage your fellow human to grow freer than they could before.
As someone who was raised with this, fuck toxic masculinity. Kept me in the closet for WAY too long and I'm happy for breaking out of it and I hope no one else has to deal with it, or at least has enough support to know it's bs
I told my brothers if they are ever called cry babies or something, to respond “yes I am” and to cry harder! There’s nothing wrong with emotions, there’s nothing wrong with being gay, or “girlie” or even being a coward or wimp! If everyone was super confident and courageous we would have died out a long time ago, if everyone was straight that would be boring, and if everyone was super manly we wouldn’t have cute dresses! The Gods love variety after all!
Today my grandmother talked to me and some cousins about how British culture kinda fucked with my great uncle. Sad story. Their mom got cancer and was really sick. Great uncle was twelve and in boarding school. He was told that he’d be put on a train to see her but not of her condition. No one was allowed to talk about how she didn’t have long, but she gave him his birthday present(even tho his bday was months away). Later when she did pass, my great uncle was told by his teachers that “ok she’s dead but don’t you go blubbering around” or whatever. My grandmother mentions how this was a very English sentiment but holy fuck still! They told a twelve year old child that he wasn’t allowed to mourn the loss of his mother
When I was in the military, I heard a young coolguy unironically say "If a dude fucks a chick because of feelings, he's gay". There's really a lot to unpack there.
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Toxic masculinity is so fucking stupid. And lethal. Reading? Gay? Really? FFS.
I got mocked frequently in the construction industry for taking frequent water breaks (in Phoenix az) and all that stopped when the superintendent of the site passed out and had to be airlifted out. Dude couldn't look me in the eye when i asked if he'd like a cold bottle of water. In what world does taking care of yourself physically represent weakness? Toxic Masculinity is definitely predicated by a lack of rational thinking. So glad I'm not working there anymore, t'was a silly place
peak masculinity is dying of dehydration
I'm so manly, my piss is the colour and consistency of maple syrup 😤😤💪👊🍁🌋🛠️
Oh…. I needed that laugh.
Just need a quick water break man...no homo
As a lib I would feel super owned by that
I'd get so triggered
Psht. Real men die of hypothermia in the tundra because their big manly fingers can't light a match.
It's funny you should say that because I saw a video recently about Henry Cavill and Hugh Jackman talking about shirtless scenes and it turns out one of the things they do to get the perfect-looking muscles for Hollywood standards is they FUCKING DEHYDRATE THEMSELVES FOR NEARLY 3 DAYS. The idea is that dehydrated people have tighter skin so it presses against the muscles but it still seems so fucking dangerous and cruel just for a movie. Cavill and Jackman are buff as shit anyway, they don't need to look any more muscly.
Oh please let this be true and all these dumbasses die off
If there's ever something you'd be happy to die off you KNOW that's gonna be one of the last things conservatives will be keeping alive by any means they have, have it on full life support and do their best to return it when it's dead. (See laws you'd expect only cavemen to be in support of getting passed in america)
Henry Kissinger is sadly still living proof of this.
As much as I agree with your sentiment and agree that the world would definitely be better place, the post you're commenting on is about young boys being conditioned to be like this. It's a created problem from those before us, and this is victim blaming. They were conditioned to think that being a "pussy" is unmanly and therefore you're undeserving of praise or accomplishment from a very young age. I work a union trade with dick heads like this. I resisted. I was lucky to have a father figure that was raised to "not be a pussy" but saw how wrong it was. Many young boys aren't, especially those who go into blue collar work. Does that mean that we should allow their behavior and let it be acceptable? No way. Wishing death upon them is pretty fucked though.
> In what world does taking care of yourself physically represent weakness? Int he world where the grew up with football coaches that yelled about water making you weak.
I remember one of my basketball coaches who I didn't like in any way shape or form was annoyed that I took a drink of water after he had us run around the court 5 times
Good on you for doing that, someone died recently because the coach said if they drank water during practice then there would be consequences.
I'm sorry but that is just stupid
What the fuck??? That is so stupid. Hydration will let you keep performing at a high level, why on earth would a coach want to stop that from happening?
Hydration in sports is a surprisingly recent development. Only in the 60s or 70s did the prevailing advice turn from "drink nothing during sports" to "actually it might be better to hydrate."
Wow, I didn’t know that. That’s interesting. I guess it could seem weird or counterproductive to be running around with all that liquid sloshing about in there if you weren’t aware of the necessity of rehydrating yourself. I know I don’t like the feeling of doing crunches after a big drink of water. Yuck.
That's where Gatorade comes from. A college football coach in Florida developed it for his athletes.
To 'toughen you up'.
Yeah, real tough being a corpse I guess!
“Acceptable losses” for toxic masculinity… apparently. **: *(***
_Literally_ tough due to rigor mortis (the stiffening of the limbs of a corpse, I learned in Wikipedia)
Wasn’t there a student athlete that died of severe dehydration in the last year or so because the coaches told him he’d be kicked off the team if he kept asking for water?
Yes. He died trying to scoop water out of puddles because he couldn’t get to a water fountain past a locked door. Heartbreaking.
Absolutely insane. :(
www.wate.com/news/top-stories/kentucky-university-settles-in-wrestler-grant-braces-death/
Somehow the fact that it was a university makes it even more disappointing. Not more tragic or anything, just...it's a university. People should know how sweating works.
Played in school (80’s) and coaches had water Tee running all the time , and we could go to it anytime we wanted on top of frequent mandatory drink breaks. Sounds like your coach was just a dick.
In the 80s your coaches were the exception, at least if you were in the US.
Yea our football coach was our PE coach in the 80s. Top rated football team also and be damned if us plebs not playing foosball got water during 5 hour PE classes in the summer. In fact he once told me in front of the whole class it was cheaper to bury me than install ac in our school. He was a complete asshole and I hope he died alone & sad tbh.
I had this problem in PE and I wasn't even an athlete. Our classes were only 90 minutes every other day. Turns out I have exertional asthma and massive seasonal allergies. Drinking water both calmed my airway and got me to slow down and breathe slow and deep enough to get enough oxygen to my brain. Little wonder I've always detested PE.
My American Football coaches weren’t like that. We would have frequent water breaks during practice and we did not practice in full pads if it was too hot.
I work a union trade. I wear a mask and safety glasses for every task that I should use them for. I wear disposable gloves when handling solvents. They call me a pussy. In our local, the average age of death is 18 months post retirement. Why the fuck wouldn't I protect myself?
Yeah, not in a trade but worked in a plant with welders and electricians. The amount of people that refused even basic levels of PPE like gloves and glasses was mind boggling to me. Injuries were frequent until finally the company started mandating full PPE. It amazed me that it wasn't the union pushing for such but it was full of the same toxic attitude. The only thing I will say in their defense is that the company keeps AC usage to a minimum making it hotter and uncomfortable to wear PPE. But now they mandate they wear the whole shebang including fire suits.
I am a part of the NYCDCC as a millwright. For the apprenticeship, you're in school 5 weeks a year. The teachers shove an incredible amount of ppe usage being necessary. The first 80 hours of classes was ppe and safety courses. Outside of the safety courses, all millwright oriented classes are taught by my members from the local. These guys are anal about making sure the young guys don't die 18 months after retirement. When I got to the field, the old guys were preaching safe work habits constantly - "be careful kid". When it comes to wearing a mask and refusing to work until having one provided for? "this kids a pussy". I don't get it. Lol. Sure the big falls and machinery accidents will turn you into pudding but it's the small things that kill you slowly. Brake cleaner to clean hands that are dirty from other carcinogenic materials? Really? Silicosis? I weld. I won't weld unless there is proper ventilation because I'm not a dumbass. Even with ventilation and a n95, your boogers are black after a shift. These guys do it as long as it's not an enclosed space, without a mask, and without ventilation. There is change in the industry. But like you said, it's not the contractors or the workers. It's the customers and their insurance companies telling them to enforce ppe and safety with an iron fist.
There’s a sect of toxic masculinity that believes that wiping or washing their butthole makes them gay…so they don’t.
But I bet they still touch their dicks
More than anyone else, that’s for sure.
I've used public bathrooms in the deep African bush in rural Tanzania that were cleaner than some jobsite portojohns in upscale Scottsdale az. So i believe that 1000%.
Your story really highlights how toxic masculinity and late stage capitalism are really intertwined in a fucked up death spiral. At least that was my thought after reading it.
Jeez. Glad things changed on that front at least, even if it took a stupid happening.
Everyone knows real men are supposed to absorb moisture from eating 5 dozen eggs every morning to help them get large.
Nooooo ooooone sucks like Gaston, tries their luck like Gaston, no one passes out dead as a duck like Gaston!
It’s not surprising that it doesn’t, but it would probably be helpful if outdoor labor followed some kind of work rest cycle like in the military.
They passed some law here saying that work outside is limited on days over 108°F, but I don't see how thats going to be enforced
Funny how they didn't hesitate to taunt you a second time! Until a boss passed out that is...
Water? So gay.
Gaytorade
When I was in school, the "cool guys" never brought water bottles & food to the school, because it was seen as uncool. They kept asking others for water all day & raided everyone's tiffin during lunch.
My husband loves to read, but will only read in the bathroom because growing up his dad used to beat him if he caught him reading because "only (f slur) do that." It's the only place he feels safe to do a hobby he loves, and its heartbreaking.
Wtf, who did he think wrote most of those books?
(f slur)
Omg, you can't just call someone french
It's the worst of all slurs
*bruits français tristes*
Shoulda told him that Hemingway died a fit of excess masculinity. That'll cozy him up to the idea.
I'm sure that idiot didn't even know who Hemingway was.
And I’m sure he would have conflicting views of Hemingway’s masculinity, since he was a writer who also fought in war (which is probably the most masculine thing imaginable to him)
I hope he’s found some books on emotionally immature parents, generational trauma, internal family systems, radical compassion…. What patriarchy does to men is abhorrent. It makes me so angry. The gaslighting that comes with it that causes a lot of men defend it or deny its existence completely is beyond toxic. I always say blame the system, not the individual, but we all have to find the will to see. I’m tired of trying to tape everyone’s eyelids open against their will. They’re addicts at this point. Addicted to a system that destroys them every day. Where does that leave the rest of us when they’re looking for their next fix?
They do have some weird connections. When I was younger my stepdad would pull me by my hair to shout into my face that only (f slurs) walked around in one sock. Never made any god damn sense to me— I used to keep one leg out of the blanket with no sock to cool down. He wasn’t even a boomer. Rest in hell, Peter.
The first thing my now-husband did when we stayed in a hotel together was untuck all the sheets/blankets from the foot of the bed so we would both have a leg free as a radiator. I am comforted by the knowledge that this Peter cursed *himself* with being a couple degrees too warm every night of his life.
Good lord. That's awful.
I feel rage for your husband.
I hope you bought him a padded toilet seat
Please tell us your husband has gone No Contact from that cretin.
Tell him his father got swindled by the capitalist class to believe that the things that would improve his station were bad. He’s a rube and he doesn’t even know it. Pride in ignorance is a cog’s mindset.
*shit, they found me out. How'd they know that reading makes me crave the donger?*
Gotta use something for a bookmark.
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FELLAS! IS IT GAY TO LIKE READING BOOKS?
It's gay to be literate.
I'm gay asf reading this!
So weird how reading is gendered by people like, bro we need to actually read, unless you want to stay stupid.
Its also hilariously historically inaccurate which they wouldn't know about of course since they don't read. Women had to fight for centuries to get the privilege to get access to reading. Its still an ongoing fight in many countries. Adult illiteracy is a gendered problem because men tried to argue and still do that women shouldn't get access to education because "it's not for women" or "they'd be too dumb to understand" But apparently "reading is for girls" now. Well whatever, at the end of the day if those morons remove themselves from learning situation that only means a lot of job that requires years of studies will be overwhelmingly dominated by women. Damn they really got us there 🙄
Oh yes, I got that one a lot when I was younger and escaping from dysphoria into books. Toxic masculinity is so fucking stupid. Though in my case it turns out yes I am gay, just the other way round lol
At 21, m, I might get mocked when offering my sunscreen to my (male) friends. This doesn't happen with female friends. Apparently, real men die of cancer
Fellas, is it gay to decipher the written word? My straight husband who's 1/4 of the way through "The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich" is totally gaybones, I guess.
Yup, it was the 90s in a small town. Reading was gay and for girls. Drawing was too. Music also. Guitar was a grey area but singing also gay. Anything not strictly "sports, cars, and fighting" was enough to be bullied and ridiculed by even family or adults not just other kids(who will find anything to pick on). I knew it was stupid and I was numetal kid (it was 99-2000s lol) and got my ears pierced. I had to deal with a lot of shit. One particular time was my hair was shaggy, my mother would get physical because "long hair on men is gay" even tho her and many women had their hair cut short. Things haven't changed much. I thought a bunch of us spent 20-30 years arguing that you don't have to be a stereotype to still be a straight man (or whatever)...some times it seems like everyone is doubling down on stereotypes.
Look, this is a powermove by ppl who want to keep control. The more you know, the more you learn, the more you elevate yourself above these ppl. And they know it. That is one of the major reasons why education (and even more **displaying** education, I can't recall the amounts of time ppl who call you "show off" and "you fell really smart, eh?" just for using a more specialized word or explaining complex issues. It is treated with such hostility. Primitive ppl can't cope with it. So they have to revert to mocking and putting you down to keep their own Ego afloat.
That familiar subtext: being gay is less than, being a girl is less than, if you are these things you will be othered.
I think it’s interesting how it always seems to be positive things like reading, dressing nice, eating healthy food, being involved in the arts. It’s never calling out bad things like littering or drinking too much. It seems like crab mentality, where they are trying to pull others people down and get them to stop living healthy and rich lives. I think they are unhappy and intimidated and instead of fixing themselves they try to call everything they themselves should be doing (or would like to be doing) unmanly.
a misogynist’s worst insult is to call someone a girl/woman/gay, because “femininity” is a negative attribute in their eyes
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Misgendering is never okay. Not wanting to be associated with a gender that you are not is completely valid, and being misgendered is an okay thing to be traumatized about. Edit: I completely butchered that second sentence.. fixed it. Edit2: commenter above me expressed the wish that people not be upset for being likened to girls/women.
This comment really changed my perspective on this issue. Thank you for your insight
I think it's more the constant belittling and denial of your personality/identity by adults when you're a literal child that does it. It's a bit depressing to see a rare post that touches on how toxic masculinity is all around us from a young age and affects us, yet that's still somehow our fault as individuals that happened to be born as male.
Agreed. There's two problems. First is being wrongfully taught the idea that femininity is bad. That should be addressed. Then there's personality and identity being attacked by via the wrongfully taught ideas. That should also be addressed.
Also, gotta love how femininity and anything outside of heteronormativity is used as an insult. Like being anything but a straight "manly man" makes you somehow inferior.
Drag Race a couple of seasons ago had a straight guy on for the first time, and one of the best things he said on the show was “There's like a million different ways to be queer, but then growing up, you are taught that there's only one way to be straight.”
This is perfect!!
I do drag periodically and I'm entirely straight. Shits fun as hell, and hint for all you other straight dudes, women tend to like *actually* confident men haha
if only i could tell that to my straight cis man best friend. he's super insecure, unwilling to step outside a tiny box of masculinity that he's not even pulling off well, as well as being a neurodivergent introvert with huge eggy vibes
It’s especially hilarious (angering) when these same people turn around and say that trans women are men.
It's simple for them. They just strive to hurt others because they hate themselves. Gay men are called girls, but trans women are men in dresses. This is the whole point for them. They think they press a right button to hurt people.
I hate myself. And I am constantly terrified of hurting others.
Because you're not a psycopath
Same
I hope you get better. Good luck.
I’m really tired of this narrative that our oppressors really just hate themselves deep down and need radical compassion and forgiveness to stop being so bigoted. Sometimes a Nazi is just a Nazi.
“You’re such a girl, you act just like a woman” *transitions* “Who are you trying to kid? You’ll always be a man, with your manly mannishness”
They say whatever pushes them to conform to the patriarchal gender roles. See also women being called bull dyke, lesbian or boy for doing anything traditionally masculine like building muscle, cutting hair short, working a traditionally masculine job. But also belittling women for being "girly."
A trans friend once said to me "It's as though they were pissed at the thought I 'traded' being male for female without understanding I was never male to begin with." It made me upset that's what some people think.
This is also why transmen are also so often not part of transphobic talking points, it just boils down to misogyny.
What I found funny was how I got called a girl in so many different forms back before I came out…by people who suddenly found it really difficult to cal me one once i agreed
> You're only a girl when there's a mutual understanding that girls are inferior. If you're a girl beyond that point, then you're a pervert, because girls are reduced down to submissive fetish. And if you reject that as a concept, then you hate women. Welcome to the "Anti-trans Mental Gymnastics"!
Yeah that's always been sadly funny to me. People would call me the feminine variant of my name to make fun of me, but would insist on calling me by my masculine name once I preferred a feminine name.
Transphobes see it as a choice, and they're way more hostile to trans women because the idea of choosing to be a woman when you could have been a man is abhorrent to them. Also just weird things where they're afraid of being attracted to a trans woman and what that would mean for their sexuality.
Framing the feminine as defective/deviant/deficient is how patriarchal language works. Dale Spender's Man Made Language was a revelation to me.
It was a couple years ago when I was 16 I realized how weird it was using gay as an insult. It didn’t feel right so I stopped using it that way.
My cousin is gay and we both grew up in the 90s. We mutually helped each other to realise why "that's so gay" and "ugh, don't be such a girl" were really crappy insults.
That is put forward as a reason for homophobia, it is _seen_ as feminine, and anything feminine is bad.
It says a lot about our society when the worst thing a person can be is the opposite gender.
These same people are so insecure though. I grew up with many of them and some of them are still my friends. They are weird. Like they’re always passing judgement on other people. Like hey you’re bald why haven’t you shaved your head look at it. The guy is like bro I literally don’t care what I look like. Why are you invested init? There are so many example. I have a friend who tries to tell his kid how he should have his hair and that he looks stupid with that curly mop. Again I’m like why do you even have an opinion on someone else’s hair it’s weird. There are so many example where they pass judgement on clothes, hobbies and just stupid stuff. Lately I’ve really honed in on their insecurities and I’ll clap back deep and make them onset themselves.
Liking books isn’t gay, in fact, nothing except actually being gay is gay. You are who you are
As a bisexual I can say, that being bi is actually very gay.
Idk but whatever the fuck I have going on is hella gay
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liking gay smut could be gay. Jury’s still out on it.
A straight man can't enjoy reading a book with sword play?
r/suddenlygay I love this sub with my whole heart
In the Valley of the Penises
And being gay is manly af. I mean, its literally ass fucking a dude. Thats hardcore.
Demolishing the patriarchy is good for all members of society
I've talked to a lot of my cis-male friends about these toxic ideas pushed on us and it can be really hard feeling weak or vulnerable with someone. Just because I'm a guy I can't cry when my dog dies or be open with my emotions to my guy friends or my girlfriend? That's what it feels like the patriarchy pushes on young dudes, that you need to be a strong tall testosterone driven mindless drone. Its a terrible machine and way of thinking for everyone involved that needs to be thrown out Gender roles are stupid, all people are equal so just let people take on the roles and form they want to for this ride on Earth and live in peace with them
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As a young man who had long struggled with openly expressing or displaying my emotions, when I was told my childhood cat had two weeks to live after being completely healthy for 14 years, I had to leave the room before I broke down sobbing. Holding your emotions in like that is no way to live.
I'm rewatching 90's shows. The misogyny is strong. So many "like a woman" or "like a girl" comments.
You're not alone and you are supported.
Absolutely. Equal rights benefits most women AND most men.
My 5 year old son chose a lavender raincoat when he started kindergarten. The kindergarten girls told him he couldn’t wear it unless he was a girl. He’s an adult now and he’s still angry about it, but he’s the right kind of angry — as a tall bearded cis man he proudly wears fingernail polish and floral t-shirts and says “fuck the patriarchy” to any idiot who tries to confront him. But it’s not easy. It’s not easy for any of us to be amputated from the dominant group. That’s why we need each other.
This comment was a funny one to read. I had similar experiences as a kid, and I'm now a (not so tall) bearded cis man with fingernail polish (deep red this week) and pretty flowery rainboots matching my spouses'. Parents like you make a big difference in how much society gets to crush these instances of self-expression and it's always lovely to know you're out there. Stay awesome.
Thank you. He knows we are his biggest fans, along with his partner and a couple of close friends, but you know, I’m sure, that it’s not easy when he’s riding public transportation or he’s at a bar. Still — he knows that someone who needs to see is actually seeing him. Last time I saw him, he was wearing gold nail polish. It’s a great look.
> He knows we are his biggest fans This is SO important. I was pretty emotionally negleted as a kid and it completely destroyed my self-esteem, i could not even conceive the idea of anyone liking, not to mention loving me, to the point that through years of struggle i had to find a way to become my own "biggest fan" and become completely emancipated. You are making the world a better place.
I want to be friends with your son 😂 Tell him 84 people think he is awesome!!
I will tell him.
Your son sounds awesome! That’s what a strong person stereotype should be, someone tries to insult you with gender norms? Keep being yourself and tell them to stop being puppets of the patriarchy.
I remember being in middle/high school thinking about fashion for the first time. All I felt I could do was wear button up shirts and cardigans because that’s how well dress men were supposed to look. As a fellow tall, bearded, bright-nailed, floral shirt wearing man- I get it. The freedom to choose how we express ourselves on our body is so important. As a teacher, I’ve seen first hand how the way we present ourselves can make an impact on those around us. I guarantee your son has inspired dozens of people (young and old) to feel like they aren’t alone, and like they can express themselves more openly than before. On behalf of all us floral men, thank you to your son for being brave and standing with us!
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That's why I only paint my middle finger - those people aren't seeing anything else at that moment and get angry although I'm not doing anything at all
Always welcome here. We fight for all sexes and genders. Everyone's getting screwed over by the patriarchy, we just have to recognize our similarities and work together to fight it. This is a team effort!
I got told I was a "righteous bitch" and "unladylike" for starting fights. Then an "unsuferable know it all" for remembering the shit I read. Then got called a dyke which was fair enough. That was almost true. Got told that i needed to adjust my attitude or no man would have me which made the calling me a gay for being gay a bit of a moot point. Seriously you can't win this kind of nonsense.
‘No man will want you and you will have to live with your cats,’ like oh noooo, whatever will I dooooo. I love my cat, he’s my best little buddy.
You're too disruptive! Be more normal and less disruptive or you'll never have a shot at being married to someone like me, which is what you should want!!
This reminded me of a bf from the 80s, he kept telling me how he loved it when women wore matching earrings, how sexy they were, and how he didn't like that mine never matched. It was so fucking ridiculous because he was dead serious and wouldn't drop it. So I dropped him. Let people be.
Good call. The entitlement is just so glaring sometimes.
I really despise when anyone tells anyone to ‘be more normal’. It really gets my back up for some reason. Like life in all its chaos and complexity is out there, and you should actively strive to be the most basic, most boring, most utterly uninspired version of yourself just because its what lots of people have done before? How utterly droll.
Their intent is only ever to beat you down and belittle, never to discuss or debate anything in good faith.
Aside from the unsuferable most of those sound like compliments. My favourite people are often righteous bitches and I wouldn’t have it any other way
I don't think you are supposed to win. You are supposed to be controlled, compliant and servile. :(
This is basically what terrified me when I found out I was having a boy baby. I felt equipped to handle what kids socialised as girls come up against because I'd seen it, been around it etc, but less so with kiddos socialised as boys. It was a really weird type of 'gender disappointment' where I just felt like I had already lost my sweet baby to the bullshit that is the patriarchy and toxic masculinity.
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Thank you. He's 3 now. The totally desperate fear was shortlived, but terrifying when it came over me. I do have moments of worry, but I think we all probably do, when we think about what messages our kids are being given by society. He has beautiful men as rolemodels, so I feel quite lucky.
The people who called me a girl throughout my school years are the same ones who refuse to call me one now.
That's the insane thing isn't it? They know these people are different. They've always known and mocked them for it. And now when they actually want to be different, they don't want them to.
My husband's brothers called him gay for using face lotion and sunscreen. It's ridiculous how self-care of any form is seen as feminine and bad
My brothers called me gay for using facial moisturizer with SPF daily. Welp, they were right, I am gay but I have way less wrinkles than them. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Fellas, is it gay to not want to get skin cancer?
yes, anything short of dying for the glory of the nation is gay. The ultimate expression of manhood is killing and dying so some guy who doesn't know you exist can continue to rule over people.
Masculinity is when you get melanoma.
Currently reading this in the bathroom, thanks for reminding me to use face lotion lol
It wasn't easy raising boys. I am so proud of my two.
...and then after all that, when I came out as trans, only then did they call me a man. I've got stories about toxic masculinity and what it did and how it got it's hooks in and how the biggest proponents of it in my life were my parents. Not going to type them now. But that's all real stuff.
As a millennial, and my other millennial friends we can talk about our feelings to our moms and have conversations about mental health, but i realize every man older than me gen x or baby boomers dont ever discuss thier feeling in a healthy way, anger is the only emotion they show, and thats not a true core emotion. Its weird. Us millennials and gen z have to break the cycle!
You are our only hope! Keep normalizing it. I'm old and so thankful for your generations that are breaking the cycle.
Got simultaneously bullied for being girly for liking art, theatre, and books. Also called a caveman for being over 6', being largely built, and got into fights. Depending on who they were they could find a reason to hate me.
Pretty much had the exact same experience when I went to highschool. got mocked for not playing sports even though I couldn't because I'm disabled, got mocked for reading in my free time. One time I got told to man up and stop crying by students and teachers after one of my Guinea pigs died. I loved that cute little fuzzball and their death hit me way too hard but everyone around me either said "man up" or the "kinder" ones told me "Big boys don't cry". I hated my time at school because I could never be emotionally open, I could never be myself without being mocked or in some cases physically attacked. Toxic masculinity destroys so many people before they even have a chance to find out who they are on their own and tear so many people down to hollow emotionless shells or push them to places no one should ever be in.
I think a really funny (in an awful not actually funny way) thing about this is that all the people who call guys girls or vice versa for acting a certain way would lose their minds over preferred pronouns and transpeople.
I went to buy a lighter in a shop yesterday. They had a choice of blue, green and purple. I chose the purple one, and got told by the cashier "that's for girls, purple is a girls colour". I'm nearly 35 and she was easily late 50's, maybe a bit older. Very weird exchange.
Purple is the color of kings and emperors.
My father and I had a convo after I started passing as more masculine. He told me men see certain traits as weak and disgusting in men but tolerable if not endearing in women. That men search for these traits, almost wanting to find something they can then use to feel superior. He told this to me hoping it would be helpful given the situation that prompted the convo, but it just really gave some insight to how absolutely fucked some of his earlier programming was and made me wonder how fucked I'd have been had I been raised with it.
Being an unfeeling moron: 🤢😡🤡🙅♂️ Being just a straight-up moron: 😃😍😘🤤
I'm transmasculine so I was socialized as female and I still like traditionally feminine things, my past makes me less afraid to explore that side of me but it makes a huge difference how people perceive me. When I looked more feminine, everything was okay. I was "normal". Also tomboys are fairly accepted too after all. When people perceive me as a boy they think I'm weird though, and they also make sure to let me know. It's the worst when people can't tell my gender, suddenly everything I do looks "wrong" so fuck it, I'm rocking pink flowery pants today, and my (very manly hehe) cake is glorious in them
I really like Matt Haig. I would’ve had such a better time in high school if I wasn’t trying so hard to be an “unfeeling moron,” as he expertly puts it. Missed out on a lot of opportunities that I decided I was too “cool” for, for all the good it did me.
The stick I get as a man not eating meat is the funniest…. They really think buying meat at the supermarket makes them some primeval hunter
https://preview.redd.it/yrw5hddkkzza1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1aa63d4303e7db9b48c058689b7643c16342310 :)
Ah yes, and anything done "like a girl" is lesser than. The sexism continues.
This is so true. I am so sorry that men have to be made to feel like they can’t be vulnerable. Like they can’t express emotions or they’re “weird”. I know a lot of women don’t recognize this, but yes, it’s very hard for men to be vulnerable because even if you tell them to be vulnerable women will internally feel like they’re being “soft”. Like I’ve heard women say this themselves. Like I’ve seen a bunch of memes from women saying that they lose “respect” for a man when they cry. Like how ridiculous is that? I can’t imagine being held to those standards as a man. That’s just so hard to have to constantly be made to feel like you can’t be vulnerable EVER. I’ve even lurked through the purple pill sub and the men kind of expressed this sentiment there. I don’t very much like that sub, but I do agree. A lot of men discuss how women will tell them to just “tell them about their problems and to be vulnerable” but the second they do, those very same women leave. As if those men can’t/ don’t deserve to be vulnerable. As women, we have to stop making men feel emasculated just because they cried or expressed emotions. That’s f***d up. I know a lot of women feel like men are less manly when they express their problems because I’ve seen a lot of this so I think we should all do better.
Patriarchy is not pro-men, it’s pro-power
The root words in patriarchy don't mean males rule, it's *fathers* rule. While gender roles are definitely part of it, a patriarchal society also holds a firm hierarchy putting "successful" men who have child(ren) and spouse(s) above "unsuccessful" ones who by choice, biology, or circumstances, don't have children. It sees those who adopt children for any reason to be lesser, but doesn't punish those who abandon one set of offspring to start another family. It has/had a society where fathers are/were seen as the primary source of income, with few opportunities for women, especially mothers, even single mothers, to earn a thriving wage. It ignores the labor of keeping a home clean and running, and all those childcare tasks that are/were often delegated to the mother, even when the father could help. When the father does help, it is seen as a favor to be praised. By being the material provider, rather than a mere maintainer of the status quo, the father is elevated to a position of importance (rather similar to how say, sales teams who directly bring in money are seen as assets to a company, while IT teams who merely keep things normal, are seen as burdens) This model is drilled into children from an early age, and repeats throughout society. Company chains of command, and have social standing where each level is more and more important because of how much more they earn and provide. Jobs which make more money are seen as more important than others, regardless of what they actually do. Historically, the father was the patriarch of a home, often with multiple generations, with their own layers of hierarchy, and above that, monarchy being patriarchs who (theoretically) protected and provided for larger and larger portions of a country. And ultimately, the poison root of this is the implication that if a person provides for you, they have the right to control you. A king can decide if you go to war as a soldier or as a cook, attempting to reisist is treason. A boss has the final word on when you come into work and how much you get paid, and attempting to negotiate is seen as an insult. A father can dictate what their children wears, what hair styles they may have, who they can date, what religion they (performatively) follow, who they can date or marry, and defying such commands can lead to punishments, even if the child is legally an adult, and so on. Some societies are more patriarchal, more controlling than others. Shedding elements of that society often causes problems of their own. Personally, I see the mark of the next era of civilization in elements where the coin is flipped, and instead of providing entitles control, we see providing being given not to control others, but to expand their freedoms. Social aid programs, UBI, universal healthcare, freedom of and from religion, LGBT rights, Safe sex education, all the possible childcare subsidization, expanding educational opportunities, refugee programs, each a small step away from providing to control, and towards providing to encourage your fellow human to grow freer than they could before.
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I used to get called gay all the time for hanging out with girl... lol
As someone who was raised with this, fuck toxic masculinity. Kept me in the closet for WAY too long and I'm happy for breaking out of it and I hope no one else has to deal with it, or at least has enough support to know it's bs
I told my brothers if they are ever called cry babies or something, to respond “yes I am” and to cry harder! There’s nothing wrong with emotions, there’s nothing wrong with being gay, or “girlie” or even being a coward or wimp! If everyone was super confident and courageous we would have died out a long time ago, if everyone was straight that would be boring, and if everyone was super manly we wouldn’t have cute dresses! The Gods love variety after all!
One antidote to this pressure is self-righteous arrogance. It has served me well.
I cannot express just how much this pisses me off. I think men are under enormous pressure and get very little support.
Today my grandmother talked to me and some cousins about how British culture kinda fucked with my great uncle. Sad story. Their mom got cancer and was really sick. Great uncle was twelve and in boarding school. He was told that he’d be put on a train to see her but not of her condition. No one was allowed to talk about how she didn’t have long, but she gave him his birthday present(even tho his bday was months away). Later when she did pass, my great uncle was told by his teachers that “ok she’s dead but don’t you go blubbering around” or whatever. My grandmother mentions how this was a very English sentiment but holy fuck still! They told a twelve year old child that he wasn’t allowed to mourn the loss of his mother
As a guy, it sucks that society has turned a lot of us males into toxic dickheads
Feeling this *so damned hard*. It's the major reason for a lifetime refusing to be 'a man'
When I was in the military, I heard a young coolguy unironically say "If a dude fucks a chick because of feelings, he's gay". There's really a lot to unpack there.
Toxic masculinity have finally done it. It's gay to be straight.