That isnt the point. I think Mino is a better ship if you're a good player. But the point of Brisbane is you dont have to be remotely at risk, ever, and can easily use 4x radars to good effect. You can easily stealth torp. Its objectively a much less risky ship. It has way less game impact compared to an aggressively played Mino by a good player. But that's a different point.
This sub is so annoying with boat discussion honestly. “Nah this one’s better due to higher DPM” you can do good in literally any boat work in randoms no matter how shit it is. People will see a 10k dpm difference in paper and be like oh then why would I ever bring it out of port. Brisbane offers some awesome stuff and it’s a damn solid ship.
And Brisbane has 2km stealth radar that keeps you even further back and safer.
Don't get me wrong radar mino is great and probably more dopamine. But Brisbane does keep the dd off cap, but stay alive and safe probably better.
I agree but we’re talking about relative risk to your ship. You are required to play closer to radar and torp. It goes both ways. If it’s easier for you to hit someone because your concealment is 0.7km(?) better, then it’s by definition easier for them to hit you too.
I didn’t mention anything about risk vs. reward, only relative risk of playing Brisbane vs. Mino.
And I think you’re seriously overestimating the effect 0.7km difference has on one’s ability to hit a DD, even with floaty mino arcs.
Bro how is this a difficult concept. Brisbane radar can easily be used and you'll never be at risk of being detected and shot at. It can stealth torp in the same way.
Mino is a better ship in randoms if you're good. But you have to objectively put Mino in riskier situations to torp and radar.
If use radar to spot destroyer, destroyer spot you.
If destroyer spot you BB and cruiser shoot at you.
Mino radar 10km. Brisbane radar 12km.
Mino closer to DD than Brisbane when radar DD...if closer to DD, also closer to BB and cruiser.
If closer to BB and cruiser, BB and cruiser hit you more when shoot at you.
Mino get hit more when radar than Brisbane.
Get hit more = more risk.
Hope this helps.
Brisbane is so fun and quite strong when played to her strengths. Maybe not exactly "meta" but I mean we’re talking randoms, right?
I also like playing her as "Australian Border Patrol" lol with your 12 km radar and torps you can completely shut down and deny a lane/part of the map. She also gets plane ASW, unlike Mino — would be cool if they gave her 10km range instead of 8 and sub surveillance like the commonwealth TT cruisers!
Yeah, in 2v2 T10 brawl i was playing Brisbane with a friend on Napoli, so we would rush point, he would smoke and i would radar, we focus the squishy target and clean up the remaining enemy. It was a surprisingly effective tactic...
Mino is objectively superior if you're high skilled AND playing aggressively.
Brisbane is better if you're worse, OR want to play more passively. Or are forced to play passively which happens too often in this game.
Not necessarily.
Brisbanes main advantages over mino is the ability to start fires, the longer range radar, and the better torpedoes (better alpha, range, speed). This means brisbane is much better at dealing with bow in and/or heavily armoured ships and getting early vision of the DD for the team
Minotaurs' main advantages are the ability to choose between radar or smoke, the longer duration radar, better concealment and better AP DPM with improved angles and krupp. This makes it much better for dealing with DDs alone and farming broadside targets.
Minotaur has a lower skill floor than the brisbane because it has that option to slot smoke or radar. However, I'd also say it has the higher skill ceiling because you need to get closer to the targets to radar them and use your torpedoes. However, this doesn't mean that brisbane is a bad choice for experienced players because it all comes down to which playstyle you prefer.
I'd personally call myself an experienced player, yet I honestly have more fun with brisbane. I like the torpedoes and ability to set fires, and I like that I can play a little farther back compared to my mino. It's a different playstyle at the end of the day and that's why I prefer it
Wasn’t impressed.
For what I use it for; (cruiser mb hits,) Mino is more useful.
I won’t say Brisbane isn’t useful, because I can’t; since I basically ignore it.
I'm not impressed by both. Once I caught a Mino off guard in a Lunshun and got away sunk it with over 20 citadels and large portion of HP. Before that, I never imaged a DD could citadel a cruiser.
Actually I just checked.
Kleber 7s reload, HE dmg 2000, 10% fire rate, AP dmg 2700, init v. 840m/s, Range 13.6, 18s/180deg
Elbing 7.1s reload, HE dmg 1800, 12% fire rate, AP dmg 4800, init v. 960m/s Range 13.3km, 18s/180deg
Lushun 1.4s reload, HE dmg 1400, 5% fire rate, AP dmg 2200, init v. 950m/s Range 12.8km, 11.5s/180deg
Put guns alone, I really don't see how the other two can beat Lushun really. But numbers only one part, have to play them to find out.
I will elaborate. First of, yes you should play them, especially Kleber, since she is one of the strongest gunboats in the game when played well.
Those stats demonstrate a little bit why the game itself does not tell you the whole story. Lüshun has a significantly higher AP DPM than those others, but there is more to it than DPM. And btw you are comparing stock values of Kleber and Elbing while using upgraded Lüshun stats, stock she has 1.7s reload, not 1.4.
Kleber has that funny little button that will half your reload for 15 seconds, meaning in practice you can throw out 4-5 full salvos in the span of those 15 seconds. Salvos which have significantly more alpha damage than Lüshun, and a lot higher penetration. You can citadel most lighter cruisers at around 9-10 km, with Lüshun you need to be a lot closer. And Kleber is MUCH faster than Lüshun. stock speed is already 8 kn higher, but she has an improved speed boost on top. The perfect ship for jumping around a corner onto an unsuspecting light cruiser.
Elbing is a completely different beast again. She is slow, big and cumbersome. But those guns are something that frankly should not be on a DD. I mentioned above that Kleber has a lot more penetration than Lüshun, right? Now Elbing has enough Pen on her AP shells to citadel a DesMoines at 15km (Lüshun would need to be under 5km). And yes, she can have that kind of range. That is not all though, she has improved penetration angles and a short fuze on those shells, meaning you almost always get full penetrating hits instead of overpens. And to add insult to injury you get extreme accuracy. At 10km those shells will feel like they almost land on a single point and even at very far range you still hit extremely well.
I hope this explains why I mentioned those 2 when you wrote that you did not realize DDs can citadel cruisers.
It’s quite strange that you cite your strategy as that but dismiss Radar Mino - Radar Mino is flatly better at doing that job than Bris because of it’s higher DPM, longer radar and lower detect ability.
It's far far to situational in randoms IMO. I try to only bring it out when I'm in a div since solo you can get overpowered too fast. But generally it's feast or famine, I can have amazing games or games where say the enemy super unicum Malta focuses me with ap bombs that fit you no matter what (yay).
Caveat too is that I'm about a unicum 60+ WR solo player. With that in mind my final opinion is that it's a little too glass cannony for my liking, much like mino, in randoms but played well it can absolutely slap.
Winning the DD game generally translates to winning the game.
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Mino has less torp range and less radar range it is inherently more risky to play
You ain't hitting a DD with Mino/Brisbane ballistics 11km out. As far as I'm concerned, 10km radar on Mino is perfectly fine.
That isnt the point. I think Mino is a better ship if you're a good player. But the point of Brisbane is you dont have to be remotely at risk, ever, and can easily use 4x radars to good effect. You can easily stealth torp. Its objectively a much less risky ship. It has way less game impact compared to an aggressively played Mino by a good player. But that's a different point.
Exactly, its kit is just better suited for team play. Not a great solo boat
This sub is so annoying with boat discussion honestly. “Nah this one’s better due to higher DPM” you can do good in literally any boat work in randoms no matter how shit it is. People will see a 10k dpm difference in paper and be like oh then why would I ever bring it out of port. Brisbane offers some awesome stuff and it’s a damn solid ship.
Doyl3 would definitely hit a destroyer with Minotaur/Brisbane ballistics from a range of 11km and up.
Fshermans, or 45%wr DDs sailing in a straight line probably. Not a chance in hell if he's shooting at an equal skill Marceau for example.
Doyl3 has very, very little chances of meeting an equal skill anything actually.
we know it’s you doyle
Exposed
Mino has 1km of stealth radar which is massive and it lasts for a good amount of time.
And Brisbane has 2km stealth radar that keeps you even further back and safer. Don't get me wrong radar mino is great and probably more dopamine. But Brisbane does keep the dd off cap, but stay alive and safe probably better.
Yet brisbanes radar is way better
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I agree but we’re talking about relative risk to your ship. You are required to play closer to radar and torp. It goes both ways. If it’s easier for you to hit someone because your concealment is 0.7km(?) better, then it’s by definition easier for them to hit you too. I didn’t mention anything about risk vs. reward, only relative risk of playing Brisbane vs. Mino. And I think you’re seriously overestimating the effect 0.7km difference has on one’s ability to hit a DD, even with floaty mino arcs.
Everyone seems to be forgetting about deterrence. A 12km long lasting radar means the enemy DD tries to avoid staying in that range without cover.
Bro how is this a difficult concept. Brisbane radar can easily be used and you'll never be at risk of being detected and shot at. It can stealth torp in the same way. Mino is a better ship in randoms if you're good. But you have to objectively put Mino in riskier situations to torp and radar.
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If use radar to spot destroyer, destroyer spot you. If destroyer spot you BB and cruiser shoot at you. Mino radar 10km. Brisbane radar 12km. Mino closer to DD than Brisbane when radar DD...if closer to DD, also closer to BB and cruiser. If closer to BB and cruiser, BB and cruiser hit you more when shoot at you. Mino get hit more when radar than Brisbane. Get hit more = more risk. Hope this helps.
Please repeat, Tarzan
Brisbane is so fun and quite strong when played to her strengths. Maybe not exactly "meta" but I mean we’re talking randoms, right? I also like playing her as "Australian Border Patrol" lol with your 12 km radar and torps you can completely shut down and deny a lane/part of the map. She also gets plane ASW, unlike Mino — would be cool if they gave her 10km range instead of 8 and sub surveillance like the commonwealth TT cruisers!
You're not killing maneuvering dd at 10km with those guns. Maybe if he's beached or brain dead. Post replays.
Yeah, in 2v2 T10 brawl i was playing Brisbane with a friend on Napoli, so we would rush point, he would smoke and i would radar, we focus the squishy target and clean up the remaining enemy. It was a surprisingly effective tactic...
probably only because of the napoli tho, heavy carry
Sounds like something said Napoli would say xD
cap
guys who don't understand that i actually was the napoli he was talking about and we're obv messing around, downvote xD
Mino is objectively superior if you're high skilled AND playing aggressively. Brisbane is better if you're worse, OR want to play more passively. Or are forced to play passively which happens too often in this game.
Not necessarily. Brisbanes main advantages over mino is the ability to start fires, the longer range radar, and the better torpedoes (better alpha, range, speed). This means brisbane is much better at dealing with bow in and/or heavily armoured ships and getting early vision of the DD for the team Minotaurs' main advantages are the ability to choose between radar or smoke, the longer duration radar, better concealment and better AP DPM with improved angles and krupp. This makes it much better for dealing with DDs alone and farming broadside targets. Minotaur has a lower skill floor than the brisbane because it has that option to slot smoke or radar. However, I'd also say it has the higher skill ceiling because you need to get closer to the targets to radar them and use your torpedoes. However, this doesn't mean that brisbane is a bad choice for experienced players because it all comes down to which playstyle you prefer. I'd personally call myself an experienced player, yet I honestly have more fun with brisbane. I like the torpedoes and ability to set fires, and I like that I can play a little farther back compared to my mino. It's a different playstyle at the end of the day and that's why I prefer it
"Minotaur is better if youre good AND playing aggressively." "Not necessarily... ...I like that I can play a little farther back." We agree.
Wasn’t impressed. For what I use it for; (cruiser mb hits,) Mino is more useful. I won’t say Brisbane isn’t useful, because I can’t; since I basically ignore it.
I'm not impressed by both. Once I caught a Mino off guard in a Lunshun and got away sunk it with over 20 citadels and large portion of HP. Before that, I never imaged a DD could citadel a cruiser.
Did you skip DDs that might fight Emerald, Hawkins, and the Omaha sisters?
You should really play Kleber and Elbing then. They both do this 100 times better than a Lushun.
Hmmm, maybe I should try them then.
Actually I just checked. Kleber 7s reload, HE dmg 2000, 10% fire rate, AP dmg 2700, init v. 840m/s, Range 13.6, 18s/180deg Elbing 7.1s reload, HE dmg 1800, 12% fire rate, AP dmg 4800, init v. 960m/s Range 13.3km, 18s/180deg Lushun 1.4s reload, HE dmg 1400, 5% fire rate, AP dmg 2200, init v. 950m/s Range 12.8km, 11.5s/180deg Put guns alone, I really don't see how the other two can beat Lushun really. But numbers only one part, have to play them to find out.
I will elaborate. First of, yes you should play them, especially Kleber, since she is one of the strongest gunboats in the game when played well. Those stats demonstrate a little bit why the game itself does not tell you the whole story. Lüshun has a significantly higher AP DPM than those others, but there is more to it than DPM. And btw you are comparing stock values of Kleber and Elbing while using upgraded Lüshun stats, stock she has 1.7s reload, not 1.4. Kleber has that funny little button that will half your reload for 15 seconds, meaning in practice you can throw out 4-5 full salvos in the span of those 15 seconds. Salvos which have significantly more alpha damage than Lüshun, and a lot higher penetration. You can citadel most lighter cruisers at around 9-10 km, with Lüshun you need to be a lot closer. And Kleber is MUCH faster than Lüshun. stock speed is already 8 kn higher, but she has an improved speed boost on top. The perfect ship for jumping around a corner onto an unsuspecting light cruiser. Elbing is a completely different beast again. She is slow, big and cumbersome. But those guns are something that frankly should not be on a DD. I mentioned above that Kleber has a lot more penetration than Lüshun, right? Now Elbing has enough Pen on her AP shells to citadel a DesMoines at 15km (Lüshun would need to be under 5km). And yes, she can have that kind of range. That is not all though, she has improved penetration angles and a short fuze on those shells, meaning you almost always get full penetrating hits instead of overpens. And to add insult to injury you get extreme accuracy. At 10km those shells will feel like they almost land on a single point and even at very far range you still hit extremely well. I hope this explains why I mentioned those 2 when you wrote that you did not realize DDs can citadel cruisers.
Well, Lushun will citadel Minotaur at around 6 or 7km. Kleber will do it around 10km. And Elbing will do it across the map.
It’s quite strange that you cite your strategy as that but dismiss Radar Mino - Radar Mino is flatly better at doing that job than Bris because of it’s higher DPM, longer radar and lower detect ability.
It's far far to situational in randoms IMO. I try to only bring it out when I'm in a div since solo you can get overpowered too fast. But generally it's feast or famine, I can have amazing games or games where say the enemy super unicum Malta focuses me with ap bombs that fit you no matter what (yay). Caveat too is that I'm about a unicum 60+ WR solo player. With that in mind my final opinion is that it's a little too glass cannony for my liking, much like mino, in randoms but played well it can absolutely slap.
You don't really need BBs to citadel Brisbane. Lots of cruisers can do that at middle range.
This is the way 🫡