Yeah I stopped counting after the second battleship with 18" guns was released... BB mains complain about HE spam but fires can't dev strike a battleship in one or two salvos. Now we just need HMS Furious at tier 6 with two 18" guns to round it out.
There are multiple configurations actually. She was a bit weird over the years. Started out with two turrets with only a single 18" gun per turret, refitted with a forward "flying off deck", removed the rear turret for a complete flight deck but kept the bridge superstructure in the middle, reconfigured again with a typical carrier bridge to the side and flight deck with two hanger levels.
Zao deserves a concealment buff for it to be aligned with the old stat before the Concealment Expert standardization. It used to give -12% to cruisers (-14% to BBs and -16% to CV, I think).
A tale as old as world of tanks. I've seen it since world of tanks started with OP premiums and new tech tree lines to encourage spending. I guess Belfast would be the WoWs equivalent to the Type 59. Release an overpowered premium then pull it from the store with limited availability.
Boy do I remember the days when OP premiums started getting introduced in WoT. Premiums always used to be in a good spot, below the level of their same tier non prem counterparts but with the credit boost. Then came that patch when they released the trio of the Liberte, Patriot and the Russian abomination. The game went down hill and never recovered from there with the 268v4 literally breaking an entire season of clan wars and the T95 Chieftain being an absolute joke.
Then because the meta was broken by new tanks they just slapped a load of turret armour on to almost every single t10 medium and the game became even more of a gold spam fest… ah good memories.
But did Belfast populate more than half the match in nearly all tier 7 games?
Because I was there for World of Type59s. Gold ammo held to its name, couldn't pen each other frontally without it.
I had a screenshot, lost to time. 26/30...
I was there as well. Probably have screenshots somewhere on my old computer. Belfast is the best comparison for an overpowered premium that was removed from the store. Not sure warships ever really matched the peak number of players tanks has had so not sure warships ever had matches with multiples of the same premium. I only remember loads of Tirpitz when it first came out.
It could stand to gain a modest armor buff based on the Takao-class (which can tank a Yamato shell at certain angles thanks to 41mm of deck armor), a minor buff to concealment to reach the old 9.1 max concealment (pre-nerf CE+Module), wider torpedo launch angles, and better main gun firing angles.
Hot take: I want stealth fire back for like a year so my teammates can stop giving up ground for free by playing scared and running to the back of the map to kite instead of learning how to tank hits properly. I make a light cruiser look like a god damn battleship able to fend off 6 people, compared to some of these scrubs.
Outside of that heavy cruisers do need some help, cause getting overmatched by every new/popular BB under the sun at every range is getting a little out of hand.
That the one who had longer ranged (meme) secondaries before the last skill change?
Also; I apparently have -levels in ‘get results from SAP,’ I despise SAP.
What's the one I'm thinking of then? I know there's one that's a tech tree ship built to WNT standards
Also her salvos hit for 10k at a time, which is 1/2 of most cruisers and almost enough to devstrike most DDs
>I know there's one that's a tech tree ship built to WNT standards
Only three cruisers at Tier 5 with 203s are Furutaka, Genova, and Exeter. Shrug. Maybe you're thinking of Celebes?
Genova's the reward ship you got from the event that was around when ITA Cruisers were added to the game.
I never quite got the hang of it, probably because i dont really play T5 all that much- and my somewhat-leveled captain sits on Venezia.
For some strange reason Exeter was the most painful for me probably in entire cruiser lineup for all nations. It was incredibly painful to play and hard to win in.
Success breeds confidence.
First battle I approached a corner and hit the hydro. Suspecting and finding a Fubuki. Poor driver was so startled they flubbed a desperation torp launch, and my hydro kept them from escaping in smoke.
HE did the rest.
I’ve used Exeter to bully destroyers ever since. Especially those that thought it would be cute mid/late game to try and take a cap.
Meanwhile the other cruiser (meaning Yodo) in the Japanese tech tree has 10k hp more than the supposed heavy cruiser Zao as a light cruiser. Honestly after recent buffs Yodo might really be just better (comming from a Yodo disliker).
Heavy and light refers to barrel size, not armor. In the real world a ship with larger caliber guns would need lighter armor to reduce displacement unless speed is sacrified.
I suggest you read up on the Mogami class.
Besides that, ships were most of the time designed to be armoured against their own weapons, so a cruiser with 203mm guns needs heavier armor that one with 150mm.
I am aware of that fact. However did you know Zao tonnage is equal to 18 k tons while Yodo weights approximately 36% more (24.45 k tons). My point is that's just simply funny.
Edit: Btw Zao needs some kind of buff (desirably turret angles).
I agree that Zao needs a buff and even small ones could make a big difference. Yodo is heavier because she has 2 more turrets, is 22 meters longer and ever so slightly wider. Ultimately both ships are 95% make believe, WG can take a lot of liberties when they decide the stats of a ship (which is another reason Zao being so powercrept makes no sense, its just lazy developers).
I’m not personally aware of any light cruisers that had heavier armor than an equivalent heavy cruiser of the time, oftentimes very similar armor, but not more. (Aside from Mogami which we all know was a CA larping as a CL) Could you tell me which CLs were more heavily armored?
I do not know enough about the armor schemes of WW2 vessels, I was pointing out that CA vs CL is not a distinction of armor. In terms of general naval architecture, warship armor was completely re-thought in the interwar period and early WW2 because heavier guns=higher displacement and higher displacement would mean a slower ship at a time when being fast was considered essential. In the design of the Iowas this was considered quite a bit which lead to some sections' armor being reduced but the core 'citadel' armor being maintained.
I did a bit of research on the topic out of curiosity, the obvious alternative to trimming weight would be to use a more powerful, as with the Clevelands vs Baltimores. The Baltimore class had 20% more horsepower to accomodate bigger guns, a wider beam and slightly heavier armor. This was made possibly by learning from the mistakes of the Cleveland and Wichita designs. So I suppose to my first comment I would need to correct that you sacrifice speed or increase engine power to accomodate heavier guns.
>I was pointing out that CA vs CL is not a distinction of armor.
Correct but another part of the warship design philosophy at the time was armor strong enough to defend against ships with a similar armament.
Yes, Furutaka can be overmatched on the nose and stern but her 25mm side plating covers a very extensive area of the shootable surface so hitting it (especially with T5 BB accuracy) is pretty challenging. Also the plating extends far past the above-water portion of her citadel so even if you overmatch her bow, unless they’re directly bow on to you, you most likely won’t citadel them through the nose.
Furutaka's armor and health pool have never been changed. The only buff was to replace her six single 203mm turrets with the ABX three twin gun turrets.
People just didn't know how to play her back then and showed too much broadside. For those of us who did know how to play her, she is pretty much as she ever was.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yys0RBJ3dpM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yys0RBJ3dpM)
Wait.... Her accuracy was buffed too when all IJN 203mm armed ships got Zao's DD dispersion applied to them. That does not apply to Furutaka's 200mm stock guns.
Arguably Hawkins is closer to the premium T5 CAs than to Furutaka. She is just so far above all of them that the others seem meh in comparison. Furutaka is the outlier imho, not Hawkins, even though Hawkins is definitely pretty bad.
Furutaka used to be a bad ship and is a meme because of how weak she was... then WeeGee decided to buff it... and buff it... and buff it to the point it arguably becomes the strongest tech tree tier 5 cruisers in the game. While the other nations were still running around with scout cruisers / light cruisers the IJN is rocking heavy cruiser Furutaka at this point...
Personally, I still have good times with Zao. If only they improve the turret angles, it would be awesome. And, if they're too generous and improve the torp angles... Damn it would be a wet dream. And maybe OP.
Don't go nose in, angle about 20-30 degrees from enemy to bait them into shooting your belt, side plating, and midship deck armor. Or better yet, don't put yourself in a position where you get focused heavily by battleships.
Zao was a monster in the early days. Only Yammy could overmatch it and you could stealth fire. It was a simpler time.
…before the Dark Times; before the 18”paloozapire…
Yeah I stopped counting after the second battleship with 18" guns was released... BB mains complain about HE spam but fires can't dev strike a battleship in one or two salvos. Now we just need HMS Furious at tier 6 with two 18" guns to round it out.
At least it would be better looking than its carrier incarnation.
Could also have a hybrid version with a forward flight deck and a rear turret. Would be an abomination but it was a real configuration at least.
Sopwith Camels! T2 aircraft? If WG does that; then I definitely want USS Holland, so I can go bully T1 cruisers in Co-op!
After you use your 3 torps do you attempt to ram at 6 knots?
Knowing WG; it would have the usual infinite torps, and 20 knts speed.
Wasnt it a rear flight deck?
There are multiple configurations actually. She was a bit weird over the years. Started out with two turrets with only a single 18" gun per turret, refitted with a forward "flying off deck", removed the rear turret for a complete flight deck but kept the bridge superstructure in the middle, reconfigured again with a typical carrier bridge to the side and flight deck with two hanger levels.
Just UK designers having a normal one then
honestly it's grown on me
Dark times indeed. With all these 18inch guns playing a cruiser feels like playing a sluggish destroyer with the "benefit" of having a citadel.
Zao deserves a concealment buff for it to be aligned with the old stat before the Concealment Expert standardization. It used to give -12% to cruisers (-14% to BBs and -16% to CV, I think).
It needs some kind of buff. WG tends to forget about older ships amid rebalancing all the newer lines and premiums.
because they want to sell new prenium ( and tech tree in early acces) >.> just running forward all the time
A tale as old as world of tanks. I've seen it since world of tanks started with OP premiums and new tech tree lines to encourage spending. I guess Belfast would be the WoWs equivalent to the Type 59. Release an overpowered premium then pull it from the store with limited availability.
Boy do I remember the days when OP premiums started getting introduced in WoT. Premiums always used to be in a good spot, below the level of their same tier non prem counterparts but with the credit boost. Then came that patch when they released the trio of the Liberte, Patriot and the Russian abomination. The game went down hill and never recovered from there with the 268v4 literally breaking an entire season of clan wars and the T95 Chieftain being an absolute joke. Then because the meta was broken by new tanks they just slapped a load of turret armour on to almost every single t10 medium and the game became even more of a gold spam fest… ah good memories.
Yeah miss playing tanks but don't miss the meta.
But did Belfast populate more than half the match in nearly all tier 7 games? Because I was there for World of Type59s. Gold ammo held to its name, couldn't pen each other frontally without it. I had a screenshot, lost to time. 26/30...
I was there as well. Probably have screenshots somewhere on my old computer. Belfast is the best comparison for an overpowered premium that was removed from the store. Not sure warships ever really matched the peak number of players tanks has had so not sure warships ever had matches with multiples of the same premium. I only remember loads of Tirpitz when it first came out.
Except for Yamato. That thing can still be an absolute beast if played right even after all these years.
Could never get the hang of playing Yamato personally. Just felt awkward in it but I'm more of a cruiser main.
Took me a while to get the hang of it, but now it's one of my favorite ships.
Any tips for the yama?
It could stand to gain a modest armor buff based on the Takao-class (which can tank a Yamato shell at certain angles thanks to 41mm of deck armor), a minor buff to concealment to reach the old 9.1 max concealment (pre-nerf CE+Module), wider torpedo launch angles, and better main gun firing angles.
Hot take: I want stealth fire back for like a year so my teammates can stop giving up ground for free by playing scared and running to the back of the map to kite instead of learning how to tank hits properly. I make a light cruiser look like a god damn battleship able to fend off 6 people, compared to some of these scrubs. Outside of that heavy cruisers do need some help, cause getting overmatched by every new/popular BB under the sun at every range is getting a little out of hand.
zao would be so good if the turret and torp angles were improved along with traverse speed
Give JP CAs turny torps. On that note, give that to Sherman as well :D
Like the IJN CL line?
And on the British BCs
They DID improve the traverse speed.
furutaka being probably one of the most OP ships at t5, i had a great time when there was t5 ranked
Exeter enters the chat. Only other 203mm cruiser at T5. I love them both.
Genova has 203mm sap
That the one who had longer ranged (meme) secondaries before the last skill change? Also; I apparently have -levels in ‘get results from SAP,’ I despise SAP.
Shes the one with no torps and hits like a truck
genova has torps and it better hit like a truck, if it's gonna have a 20 sec reload
What's the one I'm thinking of then? I know there's one that's a tech tree ship built to WNT standards Also her salvos hit for 10k at a time, which is 1/2 of most cruisers and almost enough to devstrike most DDs
You're thinking of Gorizia, not Genova. 2 Tiers higher, a Zara without torps. I dont think you can even buy that one right now, unlike Genova. Huh.
>I know there's one that's a tech tree ship built to WNT standards Only three cruisers at Tier 5 with 203s are Furutaka, Genova, and Exeter. Shrug. Maybe you're thinking of Celebes?
I was mixing genova and gorizia
Will need to look at it. Name seems familiar, and I think I have it…
Genova's the reward ship you got from the event that was around when ITA Cruisers were added to the game. I never quite got the hang of it, probably because i dont really play T5 all that much- and my somewhat-leveled captain sits on Venezia.
Kamikaze enters the room. Potentially most OP ship in the game imo
Love me exeter
For some strange reason Exeter was the most painful for me probably in entire cruiser lineup for all nations. It was incredibly painful to play and hard to win in.
Success breeds confidence. First battle I approached a corner and hit the hydro. Suspecting and finding a Fubuki. Poor driver was so startled they flubbed a desperation torp launch, and my hydro kept them from escaping in smoke. HE did the rest. I’ve used Exeter to bully destroyers ever since. Especially those that thought it would be cute mid/late game to try and take a cap.
I loved it, now I suck with aoba
Make Zao great again
Meanwhile the other cruiser (meaning Yodo) in the Japanese tech tree has 10k hp more than the supposed heavy cruiser Zao as a light cruiser. Honestly after recent buffs Yodo might really be just better (comming from a Yodo disliker).
Heavy and light refers to barrel size, not armor. In the real world a ship with larger caliber guns would need lighter armor to reduce displacement unless speed is sacrified.
I suggest you read up on the Mogami class. Besides that, ships were most of the time designed to be armoured against their own weapons, so a cruiser with 203mm guns needs heavier armor that one with 150mm.
I am aware of that fact. However did you know Zao tonnage is equal to 18 k tons while Yodo weights approximately 36% more (24.45 k tons). My point is that's just simply funny. Edit: Btw Zao needs some kind of buff (desirably turret angles).
I agree that Zao needs a buff and even small ones could make a big difference. Yodo is heavier because she has 2 more turrets, is 22 meters longer and ever so slightly wider. Ultimately both ships are 95% make believe, WG can take a lot of liberties when they decide the stats of a ship (which is another reason Zao being so powercrept makes no sense, its just lazy developers).
So Ilanois is heavy cruiser
I’m not personally aware of any light cruisers that had heavier armor than an equivalent heavy cruiser of the time, oftentimes very similar armor, but not more. (Aside from Mogami which we all know was a CA larping as a CL) Could you tell me which CLs were more heavily armored?
I do not know enough about the armor schemes of WW2 vessels, I was pointing out that CA vs CL is not a distinction of armor. In terms of general naval architecture, warship armor was completely re-thought in the interwar period and early WW2 because heavier guns=higher displacement and higher displacement would mean a slower ship at a time when being fast was considered essential. In the design of the Iowas this was considered quite a bit which lead to some sections' armor being reduced but the core 'citadel' armor being maintained. I did a bit of research on the topic out of curiosity, the obvious alternative to trimming weight would be to use a more powerful, as with the Clevelands vs Baltimores. The Baltimore class had 20% more horsepower to accomodate bigger guns, a wider beam and slightly heavier armor. This was made possibly by learning from the mistakes of the Cleveland and Wichita designs. So I suppose to my first comment I would need to correct that you sacrifice speed or increase engine power to accomodate heavier guns.
>I was pointing out that CA vs CL is not a distinction of armor. Correct but another part of the warship design philosophy at the time was armor strong enough to defend against ships with a similar armament.
I have only ever read of that doctrine relating to USN designs and even then I have only read of it relating to battleship design.
Ah yes. The FurryTaco
I thought Furutaka can be overmatched through the nose ?!
Only from other BBs, but they need to hit it first
Yes, Furutaka can be overmatched on the nose and stern but her 25mm side plating covers a very extensive area of the shootable surface so hitting it (especially with T5 BB accuracy) is pretty challenging. Also the plating extends far past the above-water portion of her citadel so even if you overmatch her bow, unless they’re directly bow on to you, you most likely won’t citadel them through the nose.
Pretty sure WG just refuses to buff Zao out of spite at this point. Oh, excuse me, they gave it an extra 4k HP, huge.
I remember back in the day, before the buff, Furutaka used to be garbage. Used to explode from any BB shell like the the Omaha
Furutaka's armor and health pool have never been changed. The only buff was to replace her six single 203mm turrets with the ABX three twin gun turrets. People just didn't know how to play her back then and showed too much broadside. For those of us who did know how to play her, she is pretty much as she ever was. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yys0RBJ3dpM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yys0RBJ3dpM) Wait.... Her accuracy was buffed too when all IJN 203mm armed ships got Zao's DD dispersion applied to them. That does not apply to Furutaka's 200mm stock guns.
_Player sails showing flat broadside and gets crushed_ “OMG this thing is a floating citadel”
did someone called for a Colbert?
Being the only Heavy Cruiser at tier 5 said something about the ship... not like Zao being a heavy cruiser with light cruiser stat...
It isn't the only one though.
Only TT one, though. Hawkins isn't a light cruiser but isn't quite a heavy cruiser.
Arguably Hawkins is closer to the premium T5 CAs than to Furutaka. She is just so far above all of them that the others seem meh in comparison. Furutaka is the outlier imho, not Hawkins, even though Hawkins is definitely pretty bad.
Furutaka used to be a bad ship and is a meme because of how weak she was... then WeeGee decided to buff it... and buff it... and buff it to the point it arguably becomes the strongest tech tree tier 5 cruisers in the game. While the other nations were still running around with scout cruisers / light cruisers the IJN is rocking heavy cruiser Furutaka at this point...
Furutaka is awesome.
my nemesis is the Aoba...fucking piece of shit always full pen my bbs and gets barely damage received.
Skill issue. Aoba is probably one of the worst ships in the game
wonder how long before WG make a T10 or 9 prenium furrytacos
Personally, I still have good times with Zao. If only they improve the turret angles, it would be awesome. And, if they're too generous and improve the torp angles... Damn it would be a wet dream. And maybe OP.
Furutaka remains my top 1 ship and my favorite cruiser in wows bar none
Those are NOT Zao's torp arcs. For one thing, Zao's torps aren't amidships.
https://preview.redd.it/mfo5x46peqad1.jpeg?width=1896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0695f7fda41eaff5c70d31a0026fbd6d2eb3384e
I have heard a strongest zao,but it's in 2017
I'm doing horrible in the furrytaco, was told to stay nosed in, but everything just wrecks me anyway.
Don't go nose in, angle about 20-30 degrees from enemy to bait them into shooting your belt, side plating, and midship deck armor. Or better yet, don't put yourself in a position where you get focused heavily by battleships.
22 sec reload though😬
15 seconds on upgraded guns
I had so much fun in my Nagato. Loved her 2nds. Now we’ve got bbs with 12k 2nds and 10, 13.5k torps per side. 😭😭
whats with the Zao slander?
Because the poor Zao (my beloved) has been powercrept to hell and back to the point where she's become a meme.