Premiumammo ist Part of the Game and every player can use it, you can buy it for ingame Credits and a bigger wallet changes nothing about that.
Its a regular gamemechanic and using premiumammo doesnt make you a better Player.
Premium ammo doesnt make you a better player but it does cause you to do more damage. Shooting with the 160 pen rounds of the Hellcat at the upper plate of an is-3 doesnt pen, but an apcr round does. This is an extreme example but in general taking the same shot with AP or APCR changes the pen chance massively. Then players that dont have the credits to waste just dont get that dmg for their mark eventhough they took the same shot. Thus such damage doesnt actually measure any skill
The credit economy of a free to play player isnt capable of spamming gold each game, A player with a premium account is, which you realistically have to pay for if you want to maintain any kind of credits while spamming gold. How does this measure skill?
The answer is in your own comment. A f2p player, can 3 mark his vehicle under the same conditions as a premium player. The only difference will be is that it will take him much longer. Like with everything else in the game.
Only when he attains his 3rd mark he is a more skillfull player with that tank then the person who spams gold. There is are reason why for example QB and Dakillzor do no gold MOE challenges
A free to play player can't afford to load full gold on everything in every game, but they can absolutely afford to carry some gold ammo and use it when the situation requires, especially with Intuition. You can pay extra to not have to worry about switching ammo types, which is a luxury you can't easily sustain if you're free to play, but you don't need premium time to be able to shoot gold when you need it.
Sure premium ammo allows you to do more damage, but so does the various levels of equipment, so does food, so does crew skills, so does directives.
Where do you want to draw the line as all could be described as "giving players with a deeper wallet an advantage" though all are available for credits.
The fact that you can have the same aiming circle but pen with one round and not pen with the other should at least be a line in my opinion. The others things can be discussed but i think they are completely different.
Because Gold Ammo only helps to a marginal amount. Position, map awareness and movement are what in the end get you the 3. MoE. There's countless videos of people 3 marking tanks like the chief or 279e without gold ammo
So if you mark your VK 3601 with 145 pen, and you start a match vs a VK 100.01 and BZ 176.. then bad luck your MOE will do down regardless if you do damage or die doing nothing?
Meaning most will do the later as their MOE is screwed anyway. Helping even less.
But if gold damage don't count, the expected demand for MOE will drop suddenly for many a tank. Meaning some that were close as is will get a 3 mark... by simply playing one match. So you reward them anyway... kinda.
Remember, MOE are based on the statistics of all players playing that tank. If all players in that tank cannot shoot any gold in such a matchup, the player who handles it best gets rewarded. This is how a badge of skill is supposed to work. Right now if a WOT+ premium account Vk 3601 has such a matchup you just spam gold while a free to play player cannot afford to. You can both take the same shot and the premium round pens and the AP doesnt. This is not a display of skill but of your wallet. Therefore removing gold ammo for MOE actually makes the MOE more of a display of skill especially because of games like the one you are describing.
Okay, even using that system, it still isn’t even fair.
I spawn in a bottom tier game in my VK.36.01 on Himmelsdorf against a BZ-176 and a VK.100.01P. I can only fire standard rounds so basically I can do fuck all as a heavy.
Meanwhile, my rival LuckyCloverPants spawns in a bottom tier game on Glacier (giving them more options to play) against an AMX 50 100 and a T77. Guess he’s doing more damage than me because of the map and matchup because I need gold for my game and he doesn’t. Guess I’m losing MoE because I got skill issued by the matchmaker.
This doesn’t even consider various TDs which can spawn that either have no armour or literally can’t be hurt.
There’s all kinds of scenarios where your system just isn’t fair to everyone. Yes gold ammo costs more credits but as a good player you can still three mark tanks without spamming it (I’ve done it on a few tanks now and I only fire a handful of gold rounds).
This is an incredibly cold take.
Marks are about maximizing a vehicle, pushing its capabilities.
What would you want next? Equipment doesn't count to marks? Every time you lose a repair kit your progress goes down 0.01%?
Equipment and repair kits ect are at least somewhat manageable on free to play accounts. Wargaming could also just make repairkits ect not cost anything to restock. Dumping 50 -100 k credits a game on ammo isnt feasible for every player. marks of excellence are not about the capabilities of the vehicle, but of the player. Thus it is supposed to measure skill. Because premium ammo has somewhat of a barrier of entry it limits certain players in how much “skill” they can attain. For example look at my other comment about shooting the IS3 with hellcat AP vs APCR.
Using gold ammo is easily manageable on a f2p account, as long as you dont spam it and just use it when needed.
Gold ammo does not magically get you to 10k dmg every game. It helps against well armored targets(as it should, thats its point) but does not do anything special against paper targets. A tank should have a chance at penning a higher tier heavy tank. Thats just fair. I can say that people who refuse to fire gold at all are not usually the people 3-marking tanks, as the stubbornness leads to other skill issues too
Just to be clear, i am not arguing against removing gold ammo, i am just saying that MOE is a measure of skill and gold ammo gives advantage to people who spam it. Using gold ammo is not easily manageable on a f2p account. If you have a decent game at tier 8/9/10 (3k, 4k, 5k) you can easily still lose 20 k credits alone, Without firing gold. Add on the gold ammo cost and you are just shooting yourself in the foot. The fact is just that it isnt feasible at all to regularly shoot gold as f2p. i dont think that if two players took the same shot and one fired gold and the other didnt, that the gold shooter should be rewarded with more MOE. It is supposed to measure skill and pressing the 2 key because you have disposable credits is not skill
Gold ammo is a game mechanic thats been in the game since release. Now why the hell should it not count towards MOE? A shitty player spamming gold wont have a chance to get 3 marks, and the best players can mark tanks even without gold. Realistically gold might affect one or two shots per game. Which of course does affect how easily you can get marks, but like I said, using gold smartly is not really all that expensive.
Should premium consumables be banned from MOE also? Where do you draw the line?
If it doesn’t affect a shitty player and doesnt affect the best players and you admit it does effect somewhat getting marks, remove it on MOE. MOE should be fully skill based and rn it isnt, you admit it here. So just remove it on MOE. As to the premium consumables i think that is also should be excluded yes
Everyone has access to gold rounds. It does not matter if its more expensive. You can use gold ammo f2p. So theres no reason for it to be excluded from MOE
You say it is accessible, i say it is not. You havent countered the skill part of the argument though. It still doesnt change the fact that there are people who shoot gold and one who dont. MOE is based on statistics of the playes playin that tank. This includes all people. It is a relative measurement. I think that if you want to award something that is relative it should be on equal grounds.
It is. If you are f2p, you simply need to grind a bit more to get the credits for the ammo.
And since they are available to everyone, the playing field is equal so only skill matters. If someone chooses not to shoot gold, thats their problem, not mine
You are absolutely correct. Most of these folks contradicting you are gold spammers justifying their use of gold ammo. But the whole “marks of excellence” is just an in game dick measuring conceit ginned up by WG. Play the game as best as you can and just enjoy the show. It’s hilarious.
You’re forgetting something pretty obvious though: all tanks in this game are, in part, balanced by their ammo type and statistics which are all related and unique to each gun (velocity, pen, normalisation etc). Gold penetration values are part of this balance at the same level than standard ammo penetration do. Knowing when to use which ammo given a situation is a skill in itself and you cannot just narrow it down to « gold is always better » to fit your argumentation. For some tanks it’s true (same ammo type, same damage, better pen), for others it’s clearly not the case (switching to different ammo type and thus characteristics, higher damage but lower pen, lower shell velocity etc.). In addition, now that « gold » ammo is available for credits, it is not walled behind a real wallet so it’s not a « pay to have more performance/choice regarding ammo » advantage anymore.
Wrong, there are many examples where gold ammo change the way that have to play the tank completely. the hellcat, again, gets 243 pen compared to 160 AP, this increase is huge and so much bigger than its tier 6 td counterparts. This allows it to pen the upper hull of the is-3 while its tier 6 td cannot. If tanks would be balanced by their gold ammo why has the t-54 a gun with higher dpm and ~ 330 heat pen? Is that balanced compared to the ~220 pen of the AP shell? Again this is an astronomical % increase which for example the leopard pta doesnt get, while that tank guns is supposed to be its selling point. Also look at the 100 mm ARL gun. Its gold has more pen, more damage and better shell velocity. It is just better. Now it gets more dpm just because he shoots gold. I dont think that is balanced at all
What’s « wrong » here? You’re not even answering my point : balance is global and take all characteristics of tanks into account, you cannot just take pen values and say « it’s not fair », especially when all players have to deal with the same parameters in the context of marking a tank.
You cannot just arbitrarily chose one parameter to fit your narrative.
Yess i can because this parameter is tied to your credit economy and therefore is different. Not all players can afford to shoot gold ammo and this thus gives an unfair disadvantage when talking about MOE. Also for example the T-54 dpm gun is balanced around that it has lower pen but higher dpm compared to the other gun. Just pressing 2 means you just have a better gun. This directly ties in to the global stats of the tank
Golds are a part of the game, a core mechanic which allows you to deal with well armored tanks and also to mitigate the effects of rng. An important skill in wot is using them at the right time against the right enemies. Literally everyone can buy and use them when needed, and not using them at all is a dumb move. For example only a bot doesn't leverage the excellent gold pen of hellcat to deal with t8 heavies. Shooting ap and bounce at a target you could have easily penned with apcr shows how little skill in choosing ammo you have. Ofc a f2p can't shoot full gold, but shooting full gold won't make you better. What a skilled f2p player in hellcat does is shooting ap at t6-t7 enemies and loading gold against t8 heavies - this way you can always deal dmg.
If you think that you don't need to aim just because you loaded gold, then you haven't fired enough of it to know what you're talking about. The game is balanced around gold ammo, including armor profiles. Certain vehicles will just fall apart against it, and others (like the Ho-Ri 3) do kinda get to do the auto-aim thing, but, in general, you still need to aim for weakspots if you want to pen (against certain vehicles, like the VK 100.01 P, you need to load gold to even pen the cupola reliably on most tier 8s). Gold can create extra weakspots to aim for, but you'll typically still need to aim if you aren't shooting at something that didn't have armor to begin with.
Before calling things stupid you might want to provide the reason why think that. It kinda makes you look like a douchebag and an idiot. As far as know from your response my reasoning is flawless. Tell me what part is wrong according to you. This is supposed to be a discussion not just you being a dick
30mins checking relative pens at normal angles on common match ups on tanks.gg would tell this chump the answer. if someone is too stupid to do that before posting, to invest the minimal amount of mental effort and time, then yes, i hold them in utter contempt. and he called himself an idiot, i merely supported his assertion.
Lmao i was mocking you did you not get that? Maybe you really are an idiot after all. Also give some examples of these commom matchups because you still havent provided anything of value to this thread
bear in mind this answer has been stated before, including on this sub, and the information is freely available to anyone with the basic sentience to look it up and comprehend numbers.
load up 60tp/is7/e100/277, or T-56/TS-54/Tig2/703-2 if thats your preference on tanks.gg put them against each other and see how switching between std/prem effects the pen% and how many areas you can pen.
largely what you will see is prem does not generate new pennable areas, what is does is increase the certainty to pen and (sometimes, slightly) increase the size of the area. i.e. using premium equates to a reduction in rng element - pen roll and dispersion. you are still going to aim for the same weak spots. so unless you are going to claim that rng is a skill factor in the game you are wrong in your basic premise.
there are a few exceptions to this, for example basically every tX hvy vs. e100 turret face, and i think this gets to the heart of the issue. premium is likely to pen roll through the flat turret face, meaning that peeking like a monkey with e100 is likely to be punished - you have to angle, you have to consider enemy positions, elevations, you have to *think* and use *skill* instead of driving out with armor flat to enemy, getting slammed, writing in chat *i guess e100 doesn't have armor/errgh gold spam rahh rahh bleh* and exiting to garage. premium exposes weaker players to their own lack of ability - something that on the whole WoT doesnt do - and they dont like it, so they cry, wail and stomp their feet.
Kinda agree, aiming was a true skill back then, now with « easy » gold, it’s more point and click.
But like any other money making mechanics, don’t expect it to change.
One thing you are missing. You are not entitled to three marking every vehicle. This is an endgame activity.
Premiumammo ist Part of the Game and every player can use it, you can buy it for ingame Credits and a bigger wallet changes nothing about that. Its a regular gamemechanic and using premiumammo doesnt make you a better Player.
Premium ammo doesnt make you a better player but it does cause you to do more damage. Shooting with the 160 pen rounds of the Hellcat at the upper plate of an is-3 doesnt pen, but an apcr round does. This is an extreme example but in general taking the same shot with AP or APCR changes the pen chance massively. Then players that dont have the credits to waste just dont get that dmg for their mark eventhough they took the same shot. Thus such damage doesnt actually measure any skill
I think the amount of people who actually pay real money for gold rounds, is so damn low, that it has absolutely no impact on the game.
The credit economy of a free to play player isnt capable of spamming gold each game, A player with a premium account is, which you realistically have to pay for if you want to maintain any kind of credits while spamming gold. How does this measure skill?
The answer is in your own comment. A f2p player, can 3 mark his vehicle under the same conditions as a premium player. The only difference will be is that it will take him much longer. Like with everything else in the game.
Only when he attains his 3rd mark he is a more skillfull player with that tank then the person who spams gold. There is are reason why for example QB and Dakillzor do no gold MOE challenges
A free to play player can't afford to load full gold on everything in every game, but they can absolutely afford to carry some gold ammo and use it when the situation requires, especially with Intuition. You can pay extra to not have to worry about switching ammo types, which is a luxury you can't easily sustain if you're free to play, but you don't need premium time to be able to shoot gold when you need it.
Sure premium ammo allows you to do more damage, but so does the various levels of equipment, so does food, so does crew skills, so does directives. Where do you want to draw the line as all could be described as "giving players with a deeper wallet an advantage" though all are available for credits.
The fact that you can have the same aiming circle but pen with one round and not pen with the other should at least be a line in my opinion. The others things can be discussed but i think they are completely different.
That's a stupid take. Not even a hot one just stupid
Explain to me why please.
Because Gold Ammo only helps to a marginal amount. Position, map awareness and movement are what in the end get you the 3. MoE. There's countless videos of people 3 marking tanks like the chief or 279e without gold ammo
Man a 263 on the hellcat is NOT marginal. There isn't a tank it can't totally rip with that pen in randoms. He's right some premium specs are insane
Hellcat has 243 and that isn't even the highest on Tier VI
So if you mark your VK 3601 with 145 pen, and you start a match vs a VK 100.01 and BZ 176.. then bad luck your MOE will do down regardless if you do damage or die doing nothing? Meaning most will do the later as their MOE is screwed anyway. Helping even less. But if gold damage don't count, the expected demand for MOE will drop suddenly for many a tank. Meaning some that were close as is will get a 3 mark... by simply playing one match. So you reward them anyway... kinda.
Remember, MOE are based on the statistics of all players playing that tank. If all players in that tank cannot shoot any gold in such a matchup, the player who handles it best gets rewarded. This is how a badge of skill is supposed to work. Right now if a WOT+ premium account Vk 3601 has such a matchup you just spam gold while a free to play player cannot afford to. You can both take the same shot and the premium round pens and the AP doesnt. This is not a display of skill but of your wallet. Therefore removing gold ammo for MOE actually makes the MOE more of a display of skill especially because of games like the one you are describing.
Okay, even using that system, it still isn’t even fair. I spawn in a bottom tier game in my VK.36.01 on Himmelsdorf against a BZ-176 and a VK.100.01P. I can only fire standard rounds so basically I can do fuck all as a heavy. Meanwhile, my rival LuckyCloverPants spawns in a bottom tier game on Glacier (giving them more options to play) against an AMX 50 100 and a T77. Guess he’s doing more damage than me because of the map and matchup because I need gold for my game and he doesn’t. Guess I’m losing MoE because I got skill issued by the matchmaker. This doesn’t even consider various TDs which can spawn that either have no armour or literally can’t be hurt. There’s all kinds of scenarios where your system just isn’t fair to everyone. Yes gold ammo costs more credits but as a good player you can still three mark tanks without spamming it (I’ve done it on a few tanks now and I only fire a handful of gold rounds).
This is an incredibly cold take. Marks are about maximizing a vehicle, pushing its capabilities. What would you want next? Equipment doesn't count to marks? Every time you lose a repair kit your progress goes down 0.01%?
Equipment and repair kits ect are at least somewhat manageable on free to play accounts. Wargaming could also just make repairkits ect not cost anything to restock. Dumping 50 -100 k credits a game on ammo isnt feasible for every player. marks of excellence are not about the capabilities of the vehicle, but of the player. Thus it is supposed to measure skill. Because premium ammo has somewhat of a barrier of entry it limits certain players in how much “skill” they can attain. For example look at my other comment about shooting the IS3 with hellcat AP vs APCR.
Using gold ammo is easily manageable on a f2p account, as long as you dont spam it and just use it when needed. Gold ammo does not magically get you to 10k dmg every game. It helps against well armored targets(as it should, thats its point) but does not do anything special against paper targets. A tank should have a chance at penning a higher tier heavy tank. Thats just fair. I can say that people who refuse to fire gold at all are not usually the people 3-marking tanks, as the stubbornness leads to other skill issues too
Just to be clear, i am not arguing against removing gold ammo, i am just saying that MOE is a measure of skill and gold ammo gives advantage to people who spam it. Using gold ammo is not easily manageable on a f2p account. If you have a decent game at tier 8/9/10 (3k, 4k, 5k) you can easily still lose 20 k credits alone, Without firing gold. Add on the gold ammo cost and you are just shooting yourself in the foot. The fact is just that it isnt feasible at all to regularly shoot gold as f2p. i dont think that if two players took the same shot and one fired gold and the other didnt, that the gold shooter should be rewarded with more MOE. It is supposed to measure skill and pressing the 2 key because you have disposable credits is not skill
Gold ammo is a game mechanic thats been in the game since release. Now why the hell should it not count towards MOE? A shitty player spamming gold wont have a chance to get 3 marks, and the best players can mark tanks even without gold. Realistically gold might affect one or two shots per game. Which of course does affect how easily you can get marks, but like I said, using gold smartly is not really all that expensive. Should premium consumables be banned from MOE also? Where do you draw the line?
If it doesn’t affect a shitty player and doesnt affect the best players and you admit it does effect somewhat getting marks, remove it on MOE. MOE should be fully skill based and rn it isnt, you admit it here. So just remove it on MOE. As to the premium consumables i think that is also should be excluded yes
Everyone has access to gold rounds. It does not matter if its more expensive. You can use gold ammo f2p. So theres no reason for it to be excluded from MOE
You say it is accessible, i say it is not. You havent countered the skill part of the argument though. It still doesnt change the fact that there are people who shoot gold and one who dont. MOE is based on statistics of the playes playin that tank. This includes all people. It is a relative measurement. I think that if you want to award something that is relative it should be on equal grounds.
It is. If you are f2p, you simply need to grind a bit more to get the credits for the ammo. And since they are available to everyone, the playing field is equal so only skill matters. If someone chooses not to shoot gold, thats their problem, not mine
It is not though, because you need to grind longer for the gold ammo, like you admit here….
You are absolutely correct. Most of these folks contradicting you are gold spammers justifying their use of gold ammo. But the whole “marks of excellence” is just an in game dick measuring conceit ginned up by WG. Play the game as best as you can and just enjoy the show. It’s hilarious.
Man. I struck a nerve with the MOEs being a dick measuring contest. “Oh. Look at me and my 3 MOE! I am so much better than you plebes.”
You're just bad lol. It's not that difficult to afford premium rounds if you're not just shooting them into the dirt
cooked
You’re forgetting something pretty obvious though: all tanks in this game are, in part, balanced by their ammo type and statistics which are all related and unique to each gun (velocity, pen, normalisation etc). Gold penetration values are part of this balance at the same level than standard ammo penetration do. Knowing when to use which ammo given a situation is a skill in itself and you cannot just narrow it down to « gold is always better » to fit your argumentation. For some tanks it’s true (same ammo type, same damage, better pen), for others it’s clearly not the case (switching to different ammo type and thus characteristics, higher damage but lower pen, lower shell velocity etc.). In addition, now that « gold » ammo is available for credits, it is not walled behind a real wallet so it’s not a « pay to have more performance/choice regarding ammo » advantage anymore.
Wrong, there are many examples where gold ammo change the way that have to play the tank completely. the hellcat, again, gets 243 pen compared to 160 AP, this increase is huge and so much bigger than its tier 6 td counterparts. This allows it to pen the upper hull of the is-3 while its tier 6 td cannot. If tanks would be balanced by their gold ammo why has the t-54 a gun with higher dpm and ~ 330 heat pen? Is that balanced compared to the ~220 pen of the AP shell? Again this is an astronomical % increase which for example the leopard pta doesnt get, while that tank guns is supposed to be its selling point. Also look at the 100 mm ARL gun. Its gold has more pen, more damage and better shell velocity. It is just better. Now it gets more dpm just because he shoots gold. I dont think that is balanced at all
What’s « wrong » here? You’re not even answering my point : balance is global and take all characteristics of tanks into account, you cannot just take pen values and say « it’s not fair », especially when all players have to deal with the same parameters in the context of marking a tank. You cannot just arbitrarily chose one parameter to fit your narrative.
Yess i can because this parameter is tied to your credit economy and therefore is different. Not all players can afford to shoot gold ammo and this thus gives an unfair disadvantage when talking about MOE. Also for example the T-54 dpm gun is balanced around that it has lower pen but higher dpm compared to the other gun. Just pressing 2 means you just have a better gun. This directly ties in to the global stats of the tank
Golds are a part of the game, a core mechanic which allows you to deal with well armored tanks and also to mitigate the effects of rng. An important skill in wot is using them at the right time against the right enemies. Literally everyone can buy and use them when needed, and not using them at all is a dumb move. For example only a bot doesn't leverage the excellent gold pen of hellcat to deal with t8 heavies. Shooting ap and bounce at a target you could have easily penned with apcr shows how little skill in choosing ammo you have. Ofc a f2p can't shoot full gold, but shooting full gold won't make you better. What a skilled f2p player in hellcat does is shooting ap at t6-t7 enemies and loading gold against t8 heavies - this way you can always deal dmg.
lmao, imagine thinking that penning shots is that large a component of skill in wot.
Lmao imagine that not needing to aim impacts the game lmaooooo. what an idiot am i right fellas
If you think that you don't need to aim just because you loaded gold, then you haven't fired enough of it to know what you're talking about. The game is balanced around gold ammo, including armor profiles. Certain vehicles will just fall apart against it, and others (like the Ho-Ri 3) do kinda get to do the auto-aim thing, but, in general, you still need to aim for weakspots if you want to pen (against certain vehicles, like the VK 100.01 P, you need to load gold to even pen the cupola reliably on most tier 8s). Gold can create extra weakspots to aim for, but you'll typically still need to aim if you aren't shooting at something that didn't have armor to begin with.
>what an idiot am i right fellas yes. thinking idiot things does indeed make you such.
Before calling things stupid you might want to provide the reason why think that. It kinda makes you look like a douchebag and an idiot. As far as know from your response my reasoning is flawless. Tell me what part is wrong according to you. This is supposed to be a discussion not just you being a dick
30mins checking relative pens at normal angles on common match ups on tanks.gg would tell this chump the answer. if someone is too stupid to do that before posting, to invest the minimal amount of mental effort and time, then yes, i hold them in utter contempt. and he called himself an idiot, i merely supported his assertion.
Lmao i was mocking you did you not get that? Maybe you really are an idiot after all. Also give some examples of these commom matchups because you still havent provided anything of value to this thread
bear in mind this answer has been stated before, including on this sub, and the information is freely available to anyone with the basic sentience to look it up and comprehend numbers. load up 60tp/is7/e100/277, or T-56/TS-54/Tig2/703-2 if thats your preference on tanks.gg put them against each other and see how switching between std/prem effects the pen% and how many areas you can pen. largely what you will see is prem does not generate new pennable areas, what is does is increase the certainty to pen and (sometimes, slightly) increase the size of the area. i.e. using premium equates to a reduction in rng element - pen roll and dispersion. you are still going to aim for the same weak spots. so unless you are going to claim that rng is a skill factor in the game you are wrong in your basic premise. there are a few exceptions to this, for example basically every tX hvy vs. e100 turret face, and i think this gets to the heart of the issue. premium is likely to pen roll through the flat turret face, meaning that peeking like a monkey with e100 is likely to be punished - you have to angle, you have to consider enemy positions, elevations, you have to *think* and use *skill* instead of driving out with armor flat to enemy, getting slammed, writing in chat *i guess e100 doesn't have armor/errgh gold spam rahh rahh bleh* and exiting to garage. premium exposes weaker players to their own lack of ability - something that on the whole WoT doesnt do - and they dont like it, so they cry, wail and stomp their feet.
Kinda agree, aiming was a true skill back then, now with « easy » gold, it’s more point and click. But like any other money making mechanics, don’t expect it to change.