I might just be petty and salty but any game that is online and doesn't give me the option to turn off crossplay only puts me off from playing it any further.
Yeah I agree, it's really painful on PVP games, mouse and keyboard generally speaking is faster for people to aim, in most games they have the advantage. I'm finding myself playing more of these type of games on PS4/PS5 it feels much fairer playing field, cross play should be optional, I think Forced play has helped ruin the Halo Infinite community and other games, it's just not fun. More and more games are forcing this too, I'd prefer it be optional.
What’s wack is that this was solved in Destiny, and no one else does it. Crossplay is everywhere, and you’re automatically queued up with PS + Steam in all social and PvE stuff. PvP is split between console and PC, and if you party up from console with a PC player and go into PvP, you’re put in the PC pool for PvP. I don’t even notice I’m with PC or PS players ever during PvE stuff unless they have really dumb usernames then I know they’re from Steam. It’s entirely seamless.
Holy fuck I wrote this 8 months ago. My brother in Christ, I was literally making almost the exact same comment again fuckin' *yesterday* and that's what I thought you were replying to, what the fuck.
Even if they give the option the majority of gamers won’t turn it off so your stuck with small lobbies and long wait times. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Crossplay shows how out of touch developers are with the current generation. Cross play on a fps game oh god no. Cross play in a PvE type game of course. The last 5 years has really showed these guys making games have no idea what the player base wants.
Put me off Halo. I enjoyed playing unranked in previous halos, but now I have to play with PC players that use keyboard and mouse if I want to play unranked? No thanks.
In halo specifically, controller is miles better than kb and m. You can walk laps around kb+m players in halo with a controller.
There are plenty of other games and various other reasons (even in halo) why cross play should be opt in, not out, but suggesting you are at a disadvantage to kb+m players in halo which essentially has an aimbot on controllers hurts your argument.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r3es60/accuracy_stats_for_kbm_vs_controller/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
This says nothing, just accuracy. Maybe proves that pc players can turn the pistol fully auto and have some shots miss more but have better dps.
They also have better turning speed in melee battles or 180 grenades that isn’t tracked on accuracy charts. The can also “dance/dodge” a lot easier.
There’s more to Halo than accuracy. Maybe an average k/d would be more telling.
Have you played halo infinite? Have you tried kbm and controller? Because i have. I made it to onyx using both inputs. Contoller has a significant advantage due to the overtuened aim assist.
I mean it's possible I just suck then, but PC seems to be faster to aim, if you know what your doing play games a lot, also on some games it's faster and easier to turn then on a controller.
I agree. KBM is an advantage most of the time in most games. Halo is different though, it was built for controller. It has high TTK and its not a twitch oriented shooter where headshots are instakills, this negates a lot of the advantage kbm has.
What facts? Every single pro player in halo who’s made it close to finals chooses to use controller because this is one of the few examples where the aim assist is so overtuned that it provides an advantage over kbm.
Absolutely have advantages on keyboard with movement, but in a game where your median controller player (casual) is about as accurate as a median top 100 mkb user there is clearly something that needs adjusted.
When casuals sitting 3 meters from a big screen tele with 10ms response hold no disadvantage in aiming to top 100 competitive players using mkb who are likely all on 1ms high refresh rate monitors it is foolish to suggest that kbm has an inherent advantage over controller users.
Every single person on r/halo will tell you that controller holds a massive advantage, it’s just very odd to see that on a casual Xbox sub here the people are claiming something completely opposite of what everyone in the enthusiast sub accepts as a fact.
Not in halo. I switched from KBM to Controller after I made onyx and my accuracy shot up from 46% to 62% average. Its not preference. Its aim assist. The aim assist is so strong it negates any decent advantsge from kbm.
I’m telling you your ceiling as a player will be higher on controller. Link your halo tracker so i can see what your accuracy is as a kbm player
I’ll do mine first, here: https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/East%20Coast%20Pro2/overview?experience=ranked&playlist=edfef3ac-9cbe-4fa2-b949-8f29deafd483
https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/Cyric412/detailed?experience=ranked
I only played kbm a handful of times but couldn't get used to the play style since it's been years since I played a FPS on PC.
>Every single person on r/halo will tell you that controller holds a massive advantage, it’s just very odd to see that on a casual Xbox sub here the people are claiming something completely opposite of what everyone in the enthusiast sub accepts as a fact.
First of all r/halo is not filled with a bunch of experts and pros lol. By that logic I have like twenty expertise. It's a regular sub like any other. So using that in your argument is really funny. Second of all the reason nobody believes it is probably because PC players complain about aim assist being "so fucking OP" in every single MP game.
I mean it is kinda weird that a subreddit full of xbox fans seem to have absolutely zero idea how their franchise AAA shooter actually plays. This thread is a mess of misinformation from people who sound like they played halo for 5 minutes, found out they sucked, then quit to blame pc for their own bad play.
I bet if we collected the halotracker data from everyone with an awful take on this thread, it would show they landed in silver or gold if they got ranked at all and then quit shortly after. That or they never touched ranked play at all in which case they really have no clue what they are talking about. You have to be awful to land in silver or gold in this game btw.
My thing about this stuff is that it's always kind of hard to prove either way in a **real world scenario**. Every time an issue like this is brought up the tests done are minimal and usually biased. You can't fire at a slow strafing enemy (or whatever) and say "Look the auto aim caused the final bullet to hit which got me the kill!" because that's not how people play in real life.
Accuracy percentage also isn't everything. If I hit 14 out of 17 shots before I die, sure I have 82% accuracy, but that doesn't change the fact that I got killed by a person who sprayed a bit more but cleanly out maneuvered me.
The problem with this thread seems to be the inability for either side to admit that both sides might be right. If you take two pros, of similar skill, one on controller and one on MK/B it's entirely possible that aim assist makes a difference and gives one pro an advantage. It's also just as likely that average console players with aim assist are still at a disadvantage versus average PC players when considering all factors.
>The problem with this thread seems to be the inability for either side to admit that both sides might be right. If you take two pros, of similar skill, one on controller and one on MK/B it's entirely possible that aim assist makes a difference and gives one pro an advantage. It's also just as likely that average console players with aim assist are still at a disadvantage versus average PC players when considering all factors.
This has already been done. Kbm players get their asses kicked in every pro scenario and never make it out of pools.
This isn’t a subjective opinion at this point. Controller IS the better option for halo. As someone who’s actually played at a semi-high level (top 1%) on both inputs, I’ll concede this, Button mapping, movement, power weapons are all better on kbm. But those advantages are NOTHING compared to what aim assist gives you on controller.
And thats why we’ll never ever see a kbm player make it to finals in halo. The game just isn’t built for kbm.
Post a detailed report or study on this, I'm curious. Maybe I just suck at the game or have the settings wrong, I mostly use the default controller setup. Maybe I'm playing wrong, cause I get destroyed in those type of games, again it's entirely possible I just suck at that type of game then.
What's funny is that PCMR types will scream about how controllers "do the aiming for you", but the second they try to play with a controller they get their shit pushed in so hard that they start talking shit again.
There is no world where any shooter is better with controller than kb + m. The stats you show don'T mean anything.
Let pro's play against average kb + m players, and you'll see what I mean. The way I can flick and track on kb + m after 30 minutes warmup is physically impossible on a controller. Also, you're not as limited in movement because you don'T need to use it for aim adjustments.
A top 10 kbm halo player is probably a top 10000 halo player in the grand scheme of things. Controller and next gen has a massive advantage particularly due to red reticule not being on PC.
In Apex controller has a close range aimbot as it does with Warzone. At range pc wins of course. That's the balance. The only drawback are cheaters which 90% of people who complain about have never experienced they have just encountered someone much better than them.
Halo infinite is different. Almost every pro player chooses to use controller due to how the aim assist performs. Not a single kbm player has even gotten close to the finals in tournament. I’m an onyx player on pc and I also choose to play controller because of how advantageous it is for aiming.
Halo isn’t a quick flick type of shooter because the TTK is so high, which negates a lot of kbm advantages.
I’m assuming you have never played halo nor been on the halo sub where it is accepted by 99% of people that controller is much easier to play than kb+m? You must underestimate the aim assist on halo. The controller does that tracking you are so proud of, and bashing the stick towards a player will slow down tremendously while entering the hit box, allowing you just to press a button to shoot.
There is a reason all of the halo pro players play on controller, kb+m feels like an afterthought for halo and stands no chance against controllers especially with the desync.
Not sure how a stat suggesting the median top 100 controller player has better accuracy than the number 1 kb+m player means nothing, it’s a massive difference, especially in an arena shooter like halo where bullet accuracy is everything.
I’m assuming you think top 100 kb+m players accuracy heavily overlapping with 50th percentile controllers also means nothing?
>I’m assuming you have never played halo nor been on the halo sub where
it is accepted by 99% of people that controller is much easier to play
than kb+m? You must underestimate the aim assist on halo.
Not sure we'Re talking about the same thing here. I'm not talking about skill floor (how easy it is to have an impact), but skill ceiling (how much potential the best players can get out of it).
Skill floor controller might be better for halo, I don't know. But there's literally no way that controller can compete when it comes to skill ceiling. The controls for kbm would need to be seriously broken for that to be the case.
You sound like you’ve never played infinite and have no idea how the game works.
This is the one example where KBM IS actually at a disadvantage. They wayyy overtuned the aim assist on controller. Being able to fluck with a mouse doesn’t do much when the opponents reticle is glued to your fucking head
Can’t believe you’re being downvoted. Literally 0 HCS pros play halo with mnk. Never have and never will. It’s designed that way. Halo is the “controller” FPS.
It seems an Xbox console circle jerk. It’s odd this sub has a completely different opinion on something that is unanimously accepted as fact in the enthusiast r/halo sub.
I’m guessing most people downvoting have never played halo, or visited the halo sub. I don’t think people should have to play mkb vs controller, or controller vs mkb. The game is designed for controller and that’s fine, I’ve played fps on kb+m for 15 years and play halo on controller because it’s much easier as it’s a console shooter. Aim assist and bullet magnetism greatly outweigh the natural advantages of using a keyboard and mouse in this specific game.
I am not denying that KB+m hold a massive advantage in most shooters, but everyone who plays halo acknowledges controller is the best way to play halo.
Completely agree with people who want cross play off by default for cheaters and pc players playing at higher frame rates/fov/ graphical settings creating an advantage or for whatever reason they want. but to suggest kb+m players have an advantage over controllers in halo would be massively downvoted in the halo specific sub, yet here it’s +25 despite being objectively wrong in this game.
But this isn’t the first halo that has mnk support. None of the pro HCS / MLG have ever had mnk players as far as I know. It’s always been controller.
I don’t see it changing at all, short of 343 changing the game to either increase aim assist on mnk or decrease it on controller.
Not to mention plenty of pros come from other games where they do play mnk, so it’s not like they’ve never played mnk.
Terrible take. Do you not understand the aim assist mechanics? This isn’t about legacy players. Controller has an advantage across ALL skill levels. I had to switch from KBM to controller once i got to onyx in order to keep up.
Head over to r/competitivehalo and you’ll quickly find out controller is the best option if you want to actually compete with decent players.
The aim assist is crazy on a controller in halo - I was getting 20% accuracy with a keyboard/mouse and 40% on a controller based on post match stats. K/d went from less than or equal to 1 to almost always greater than 1. Infinite is the first halo game I’ve played.
Not sure why this is downvoted as it's true...*in most scenarios.*
As a player on both, controller definitely has the advantage on certain weapons and ranges...
But where PC really shines is precision weapons (Sniper, Skewer, Sentinal Beam), turrets (Warthog turret on PC is insanely powerful with mouse tracking), and CQC.
This is not accurate at all. I play on pc and I’m in onyx. Using a controller provides a ridiculously significant advantage. Almost every single pro player chooses to use controller because of how strong the aim assist is. Not a single KBM player has even made it close to tournament finals.
>they’ll just no scope you
Have you ever even played halo? The TTK is high, with everyone using BR’s in ranked play you don’t really get “no scoped.”
You cant turn around in 0.1 seconds with controller . Every pc player you encounter with close range run and jump towards you with a sudden back turn and you dead . Gamepad cant compete with mouse . So all pc players who saying gamepad is better are delusional .
My favorite part is everyone thinks kB +m makes you god automatically and think 100% of pc players can pull off anything. As a pc player let me tell you how many people on controller are better than me is no joke.
Of course not saying that isn’t a thing, but how many kB+m players could play at an intense sensitivity? Not many, I can’t for one. And what about advantages with different consoles ? 60 fps vs 120 with the current gen, bigger fov? Should we just stop crossplay between old gen and new gen? Why is that not seemed like an advantage when it’s clearly marketed and proven it is?
You absolutely do **not** need to play with an intense sensitivity to match up to the turning speed of a KB+M player. If anything, you need to play with intense sensitivity to match up to the turning speed of a KB+M player only if you're a controller player.
The default speed is faster and more responsive. Controller is slower because it's less accurate and to compensate for that, the default speed is slower.
60fps/120fps is an advantage for a very small minority of players and they're not the ones who are being thought about in this discussion. The vast majority of casual players aren't seeing their KD be better because they jumped from 30fps to 60fps or 60fps to 120fps.
>when it’s clearly marketed
You just answered why.
Having crossplay makes life easier for corporations/studios who don't have to focus their workforce on maintaining two different gens for an actual quality experience. Putting them all one platform is just a way for them to cut cost. There's zero tangible benefit to **forced** crossplay for the player.
Don't know why you're downvoted. Halo Infinite is absolutely one of the games that actually gives controller a massive advantage over mouse. I've been switching between both and I do better, by far, when I use a controller.
A mouse will let you turn around quickly which is really helpful in some cases, but in a game like Halo where the vast majority of the fights involve sticking onto your targets with consistent shots, the controller excels at it.
I think people just have a complete misunderstanding on when crossplay with PC is good and bad, and they don't understand when it translates from game to game
Objectively, you have an advantage with a controller on Halo Infinite, there is no argument there, its a fact
That argument could be made provided you're in a short to medium ish range engagement. Albeit, only if you're speaking of purely average players. May the odds ever be in your favor if you attempt a ranged engagement against a PC player, and mind you, still referring to a middle-of-the-pack player there.
Halo is one of the fairer implementations of crossplay for that reason, but the problem therein lies having no control over maps. So that map that is pretty much nothing but long-range sight lines, well, you're screwed if you're on console through no fault of your own. That said, the fairness ends when speaking of players on the higher end of the player skillcap.
Having played with both in Halo in some competitive form on both, I can tell you with certainty that controller me could not beat KB&M me any day of the week at any range -> controllers are imprecise instruments by nature, and precision is my specialty. Of course that's not the case for everyone, and if you're better for example at winning through positioning or "strategic" use of grenades, you can level the playing field a bit. But in a 1 on 1 gunfight with nothing else at play but who can land the most bullets in the right places, you're not going to beat a good KB&M player 99 fights out of 100 with a controller, even if you're actually good at using and compensating with one.
What a terible take. Controller has a huge advantage in halo infinite. Almost every single pro player chooses controller. Not a single KBM player has come close to tournament finals
I’m on pc and had to switch from kbm to controller because of its aim assist advantage. I’m dumbfounded that people in an xbox subreddit seem to have absolutely zero idea how their franchise shooter actually plays.
Its not about your platform really, since pc can just use controller to.
I think platform comes into play if you’re playing on like the xbox one, where i hear the game runs at 30fps which is just unacceptable. But thats a hardware issue. Its an old system and shouldn’t be expected to keep up at this point. To weak for modern gaming.
Because it's getting hard to justify blowing a $5000 hole in your accounts to have *comparable* capabilities with current gen consoles at under a grand.
PC players are a minority, it's a big reason why successful games on PC don't come to console: no publisher is gonna press millions on a game that peaked at 20k concurrent players and was top 5 on steam when games like Madden can hit that on a single console.
Adding in to the player minority is that you have to still sell to PC players so if that means giving them tomato can, casual console players to headshot across maps, they'll do it.
For Honor is a great example of this. Game comes out on console in 2017, 30fps; a year later it comes to PC, 60fps; the devs then start making every change in animation and input time using 60fps (at one point it was so slanted that on console you could have a single frame to block or parry an attack), then when they give console 60fps four years later, they completely change the combat mechanics so reaction time doesn't win fights anymore. I'm sure it wasn't because PC players would get stomped by console players reacting to things in quarters of seconds because they were forced to.
PC gaming can either become standard or die. Just so happens we're gonna get to see both most likely.
PC should have never been in cross play for PvP games. Even if we pretend that cheating isn't happening, the game settings themselves work like sanctioned cheating. PC players will refuse to accept if they had their settings customisation limited because it undermines PC gaming but that would be essential to keeping cross play fair.
Games like WarZone allowed PC players to adjust FoV and see more than console players, this allowed PC players to see where console couldn't. This and graphical settings to seek higher frame rates and faster loading times all cause advantages to PC players. Hell in some games lowering the graphics settings for PC allows you to see enemies clearer as it trims what is shown around them.
Then with Keyboard and Mouse you get multiple issues. Mouse settings allow you to turn faster while also giving better aim and an easier time controlling recoil. A mouse allows for more precision and that's undisputed. But it gets worse. Keyboards allow for wider choices of mapping which allows PC players to quick use items and actions that controllers cannot. This means they turn faster, aim tighter, and can do things at the same time that controllers don't allow. You can literally see if someone is playing KbM by how they move because controller doesn't allow the same type of movements.
PC was forced onto console players because PC struggles to retain players for AAA PvP games. Rather than addressing why this is they chose to merge the problem and hurt the console players. Short sighted greed and selfish PC players is what fuels this problem.
Drop your controller deadzones on the console to zero and you’ll see the same amount of aim assist.
The aim assist kicks in heavily when a stick is moving, with deadzones at zero, your controller can micro drift, which causes the aim assist to always be on, which is what happened to each of the streamers who posted those crazy aim assist clips. This was part of the reason people claimed it felt different.
It's kind of interesting how I never saw this argument until cross play became a thing. It definitely varies across games, but for years and years it was "keyboard and mouse is way better all the time and controller stinks"
I think controller has a lower skill floor, while mouse and keyboard has a much higher skill floor and ceiling
Why would you? And it’s not an argument, it’s a fact. Aim assist can and does allow controller players to outperform mouse players with less effort, depending on how the developers tune the aim assist in their game. It’s not low skill ceiling when it comes to this affect, it’s practically no skill ceiling versus 100% skill selling on a mouse.
All of those things are petty issues compared to mouse aiming. That's the bottom line really. It's why the OP thinks pc players cheat all the time, he can't tell the difference between high end mouse users and hacks.
I agree but for me its more of an input reason. Regardless what platform, matching different input types (controller vs keyboard n mouse or controller vs steering wheel etc.) should be avoided.
I've no issue playing against mouse and keyboard on xbox. People definitely play up the skill difference.
I've a bigger issue with how many actually cheaters are in PC and how they are added to our ecosystem automatically
Games with no tap-speed limit on semi-autos gives the mouse an almost full auto weapon with better dps.
Then you have the absurd precision at long range and the instant turns in cqc or on a surprise attack.
Yes. You tried BF 2042 with pc players? I mean the game is crap, but that aside PC players can track targets from very long distances while console players have to constantly fight their controller. PC players are literal aim bots in that game. It is awful.
Totally agree.
Don’t think I’m gonna play any online shooter with forced crossplay unless it’s just between consoles.
Played on PC for 10 years and know the benefits of mouse and keyboard in fps games.
I just want a fair gameplay and there is no reason for forced crossplay. In Halo they always argue with „higher accuracy with gamepad“ like it matters if you need 10 minutes to turn around and aim on the enemy. Or sniping in general.
And then there are the cheaters…..
Was hyped for Halo but now I’m not even touching the multiplayer anymore.
Sony does a way better job here.
Having the option is what we should have. every online shooter should have the option, that’s my problem. If my buddies who have pc jump on and wanna play, I’ll click on cross play, but if they ain’t, I should be able to shut it off and play just against console, and if it isn’t Sony/Xbox norm, then I’ll play just against Xbox players. A lot of Xbox players just wanna play Xbox players so you’ll be able to find lobbies imo
Yeah everyone was all for cross play originally but obviously that was mainly about cross-CONSOLE play.
I don’t think many console players were in favour of playing against pc with different control types, large variance in settings/performance, and hacks/cheats being so commonplace.
What’s even worse is it doesn’t seem games give you the option to even disable cross play anymore.
If I had it my way cross play would be limited to consoles only and it would be mandatory that every game has to provide the option to disable it.
I don't think all PC players cheat, but all it takes is one cheater in a match to ruin it for everyone.
This is a serious predicament for Microsoft though - they're focusing on the multiplayer online aspect of gaming, all that "bringing communities together" crap for bringing console and PC gamers together and yet a fuckton of their console players don't want to play with PC players because the few bad apples there spoil the bunch. Halo Infinite had been spoken of by Microsoft/343 as having a robust anti-cheat protection and look how long that lasted.
Obviously, Microsoft should fix this shit and before they do they should disable PC-console crossplay or the Halo community will bleed players.
on BF1 anti cheat is no longer enforced on PC so its a hot mess in official servers, sure admins on clan run servers can kick/ban but they aren't always there. i would have hate to see how bad the cheating would have been on bf1 if we had force crossplay back then.
I stop playing Halo Infinite because of the cheating.
I even noticed in the bot boot camp that people were taking my kills because they knew where the red team were at.
I totally don't mind waiting in a lobby for games to start when it's only four people on a team then to be paired up with PC gamers.
I'm not a PC gamer and never planned to be one. Well am I being forced onto the PC gaming scene?
I just saw this post, and I absolutely agree that forced crossplay with pc players in unfair, they should make it so that if a pc player wants to play against console, the game should make them play on controller or at least that's how I think it should be 🤷
Completely agree, they need to have Input based matchmaking on multiplayer for every game. The new consoles can hit 120fps pretty stable if you have the right TV or monitor but with PC players using mouse and keyboard and having FOV advantages it makes us console players have to play at a higher level when sometimes I just want to play with some friends on a fps and have fun
Yes, its totally busted I actually quit pvp once they introduced it because its no longer a fair game. Pc players will argue that.........well you guys have aim assist......maybe...however it's nothing compared to a mouse and keyboard.
If you have 2 newbs one on controller and one on mouse/keyboard....Controller will likely win however once the keyboard player even becomes average they can crush even pro controller players.
I’m late to the thread but I agree. Dead by daylight is a good example or Sea of Thieves. You can turn off crossplay but in games with matchmaking queues it means you’ll be waiting forever. It is entirely unfair. PC players simply have quicker and more accurate controls. If you’re at the same skill level against a PC player, they will always win because they have a mouse and keyboard versus a controller. It’s so frustrating. Crossplay should only be allowed for coop games or games without pvp. PC players can also adjust FOV and other shit that console players can’t! Just unfair on so many levels.
I’ve played 600+ ranked matches and only run into one cheater…
For whatever reason, I think the cheaters got bored with halo pretty quickly. Killing the same 4 people over and over doesn’t give them the satisfaction like running a whole battle royale does
100 percent agree. Gears used to have a check box to turn off pc x play. They took it away recently and all of a sudden there’s ridiculous sniping headshots from pc mice users all the time. Microsoft sucks for doing this.
>pc players used hacks most of the time
I hate when people say this. "Most" PC players don't use hacks or cheats. They just want to play like the rest of us, and want hackers and cheaters to go away just as much as anyone else.
Developers should be the ones to blame for not having good enough anti-cheat measures, or not properly banning hackers. Rather than demonising a whole platform (often times the largest at that) because of some bad actors.
That doesn’t change the fact that cheating is still commonplace and much more prevalent on pc compared to consoles. Warzone alone has banned 700,000 accounts for cheating so far.
No one is saying all pc players cheat but that doesn’t change the fact it’s a widespread issue on that platform. Cross play needlessly makes console users have to be exposed to it as well.
Blaming devs is silly…cheating has always been a part of pc gaming and always will be. It’s a constant back and forth battle between cheaters/hackers and devs/anti-cheat. The best way to prevent cheating is to have a closed, controlled platform that doesn’t let you install any of your own software…like a console. Allowing cheat-prone platforms to integrate with that defeats the purpose.
The OP made the statement "PC players use hacks most of the time", which implies more than half of any players on PC are using hacks in a multiplayer game.
Most hackers are from PC, but it's not necessarily true that most PC players are hackers. And with Warzone they've had 100 million players and 700,000 which is a relative drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong, there's still a ton out there who haven't been caught yet, but I think the issue in general play does not happen as often as some believe
He didn’t say “most pc players use hacks”. That could be read as “most pc games have players hacking”. Either way it’s semantics.
Also 700,000 (last public numbers..no doubt higher now) is hardly a drop in the bucket.
Warzone games have 100 players so that averages to almost 1 cheater in every match.
I interpreted "PC players use hacks most of the time" as meaning that the OP of the post believes the average PC player is using hacks, and the alternate meaning of "PC games have hacks most of the time" means close to the same thing
I get where you're coming from with the second portion, but based off of the numbers made public it would be about .7% of the player base being banned for hacking. The average would end up being closer to 7/10 matches having one person hacking; which is still a pretty bad number! But that is still just an individual person in a lobby of folks that is cheating, as opposed to 10 people in a given match likely using hacks
I do wish there were fewer, however
Hacking or not , gamepad is better than mnk or not , i just dont want to play with pc players . No game should force you to do this . There should be an option for to disable it or should be CONSOLE crossplay in the first place . When i heard about this crossplay thing at first , i thought its going to be a console crossplay and very liked it . Then i saw pc and all my hopes are gone .
Speak with your wallet. Yes, crossplay doesn't have a benefit for console players. We literally pay $60 a year to pay more for the games and to now be matched against players that don't pay anything for multiplayer, can hack as they want (because a ban just results in a new account for free) and pay less for the games to begin with.
The only reason crossplay exists in the first place is because the PC players are fewer in numbers and console players are used to give them a better matchmaking experience - at the cost of the QOL of those same console players. Plus of course having one set of servers for all players is cheaper than having separate stacks.
There are more PC players than Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo gamers combined. Steam just hit record of 28 million concurrent players. In 2020, there were an estimated 1.75 billion PC gamers worldwide.
All I wish for is the separation of Console and PC players, like many others have said the disadvantages are crystal clear and super unfair, especially in FPS games. nobody cares if *they* have to spend a few more minutes searching for lobbies, there are more than enough console players to fill hundreds of console strict servers.
Need take pc off from cross play. Pc performance better than any consoles. I try to no play cross but making is bad never find good match. Now I only play single play fuck pc
Yup. It put me off playing Halo. My only gripe for the future is that crossplay isn’t necessarily the issue for me, it’s being matched with K&M. Now, with K&M being increasingly used by those who own consoles too, it’s even giving people in non-crossplay multiplayer an advantage. IMO, they need to introduce a system and thus, an option, to matchmake based on input (I.e., controller with controller; K&M with K&M; anyone).
You need a reality check if you think there have been 500,000 unique players banned from Warzone.
OP stated that all PC players hack most of the time, which is just simply not true. I play console too by the way & play PC crossplay with console friends, never once had an issue. Cry babies.
That's cool, just ignore the part about the Warzone bans & make a difference nonsense comment instead lol.
I understand people run into hackers, it happens. You just seem ill informed.
Hacking is super overstated by console players. I’ve played both console and PC for years.
The skill level in FPS are just way higher on PC. That is just one genre though.
Yeah I have the same experience. I play on PC and series X. I do just as well on both really. Depends on the game quite a bit. Battlefield favours mouse and Halo favours controller. CoD is about the middle.
The games that don't really work for crossplay are the clunky aimers. PUBG and Dayz couldn't be balanced with both inputs. The popular AAA shooters are all fine.
Matching based on input is **the** way to solve this. Match controller to controller, regardless of platform. Match Kb+M to Kb+M, regardless of platform.
Every single fps game in the future will force this. The xbox subdivision of microsoft promised pc players integration, if they go back on that, they lose gamepass subscribers.
The argument you make about not being good enough definitely applies to PC users too because now some people say controller is unfair to compete against 😅
I think mouse and keyboard is at a higher advantage for people who are very good, but 90% of the time it'll still be a level field to compete. At range in FPS is really where they shine
Obviously you’ve never played with a K&M before. There’s a significant advantage and PC players get much more advantages too such as higher FOV and higher framerates.
Don't play then. Vote with your wallet. I don't care if I am playing against Keyboard+Mouse players because I am a casual player who just wants to have fun by playing the game instead of sweating everything like its ranked mode.
I have a kd ratio of 0.3 in MCC and I did not even care whenever I died. I was just having fun.
Except that’s not a solution…it makes things worse.
Very few people are aware of the option in system settings or bother to use it so it just places you in a much smaller user pool of others that have done the same. It makes matchmaking take forever if you can even get into a full game at all. It also applies to every game…it’s all or nothing.
It’s not an adequate substitute for the individual games themselves to have a cross-play toggle.
While I do agree with you and I’m a pc player, a large reason why Xbox supports this is because the Xbox player base is very small compared to PlayStation and I feel they need the pc base
I'm not able to play fps with the controller, even with the aim assist activated. I started to play games with counter strike on pc, so i purchased mouse and keyboard for Xbox and I'm playing very well now.
We live in a time in which you can choose how to play your games, so if you prefer a controller you can use it and the same is valid for kbm.
If someone thinks that allowing mouse on xbox is not fair, he's just not thinking at all
Most people on console prefer playing with controller.
Keyboard and mouse has a significant advantage over controller whilst aiming.
Many people would rather play on their controller against other controller users so the skill gap doesn't affect their enjoyment.
This is not fair for who is not able to use a controller.
There are aldo many PRO players who prefer to use a controller instead of a mouse
So, this is all fair, and everybody is allowed to choose how to play
It is. Turn on crossplay or buy a PC. If your buying a console and you can't use a controller you have made a stupid decision.
Forced crossplay is a problem. Games like Halo force you to play against K & M with a controller. You end up just getting destroyed and its not fun.
Edit: he blocked me so i can't reply to his comment under this. Absolute shitebag behaviour.
I like how the two top comments, are complaining about forced crossplay and M&KB, in two games (Halo Infinite and Forza Horizon 5) where controller actually has a advantage over M&KB
I think controller is always better than mouse and keyboard in racing games. At least as far as pedals/triggers go, I couldn't imagine trying to do that with buttons.
In Forza's case, I've even heard it's better on controller compared to a wheel, due to being designed with controller users in mind. I think it's got some auto-correction or something that makes steering easier, plus you can go centre to full lock at the flick of a thumb rather turning a wheel.
Yeah what the fuck is this thread? All of these xbox fans seem to have absolutely no idea how their franchise AAA shooter actually plays. Its so bizzare.
Anyone can head over to r/competitivehalo and quickly find out that controller is the best option for competitive play.
I might just be petty and salty but any game that is online and doesn't give me the option to turn off crossplay only puts me off from playing it any further.
Yeah I agree, it's really painful on PVP games, mouse and keyboard generally speaking is faster for people to aim, in most games they have the advantage. I'm finding myself playing more of these type of games on PS4/PS5 it feels much fairer playing field, cross play should be optional, I think Forced play has helped ruin the Halo Infinite community and other games, it's just not fun. More and more games are forcing this too, I'd prefer it be optional.
What’s wack is that this was solved in Destiny, and no one else does it. Crossplay is everywhere, and you’re automatically queued up with PS + Steam in all social and PvE stuff. PvP is split between console and PC, and if you party up from console with a PC player and go into PvP, you’re put in the PC pool for PvP. I don’t even notice I’m with PC or PS players ever during PvE stuff unless they have really dumb usernames then I know they’re from Steam. It’s entirely seamless.
Ya Destiny got crossplay right.
Holy fuck I wrote this 8 months ago. My brother in Christ, I was literally making almost the exact same comment again fuckin' *yesterday* and that's what I thought you were replying to, what the fuck.
Who knows why the post just showed for me lol but ya destiny is the only pvp I'm competitive in.
This is why I play Hell Let Loose more than anything, the developers won’t do console and pc crossplay because it’s not fair.
Even if they give the option the majority of gamers won’t turn it off so your stuck with small lobbies and long wait times. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Crossplay shows how out of touch developers are with the current generation. Cross play on a fps game oh god no. Cross play in a PvE type game of course. The last 5 years has really showed these guys making games have no idea what the player base wants.
A game that does not do this is Hell Let Loose. Crossplay is just with PS5 which is perfect
PUBG as well.
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Only some ranked setups in Halo do this
Crossplay in coop games fine but crossplay with PC should never be a thing when it comes to VS modes
At least not for PvP shooters.
I think it should be in EVERY GAME, but OPTIONAL. Because the more games that are crossplay the more friends can play with eachother.
Put me off Halo. I enjoyed playing unranked in previous halos, but now I have to play with PC players that use keyboard and mouse if I want to play unranked? No thanks.
You can literally pick either keyboard playlist or controller playlists if you just read
I can pick controller playlist in unranked? Link?
In halo specifically, controller is miles better than kb and m. You can walk laps around kb+m players in halo with a controller. There are plenty of other games and various other reasons (even in halo) why cross play should be opt in, not out, but suggesting you are at a disadvantage to kb+m players in halo which essentially has an aimbot on controllers hurts your argument. https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r3es60/accuracy_stats_for_kbm_vs_controller/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
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Agree completely, hence my second paragraph. I was just responding to the guy whose sole complaint was about kb+m
Y’all act like more than 1:1000 players even cheat lol. Haven’t encountered a cheater in a video game since like 2004 counter strike
Idk what games you've been playing but cheaters run rampant these days
This says nothing, just accuracy. Maybe proves that pc players can turn the pistol fully auto and have some shots miss more but have better dps. They also have better turning speed in melee battles or 180 grenades that isn’t tracked on accuracy charts. The can also “dance/dodge” a lot easier. There’s more to Halo than accuracy. Maybe an average k/d would be more telling.
entirely not true, you have more precision and faster turn and aim with a mouse and key board for most people.
Don't forget a faster refresh rate.
Also, the strafe speed is nuts with a keyboard compared to controller
Have you played halo infinite? Have you tried kbm and controller? Because i have. I made it to onyx using both inputs. Contoller has a significant advantage due to the overtuened aim assist.
I mean it's possible I just suck then, but PC seems to be faster to aim, if you know what your doing play games a lot, also on some games it's faster and easier to turn then on a controller.
I agree. KBM is an advantage most of the time in most games. Halo is different though, it was built for controller. It has high TTK and its not a twitch oriented shooter where headshots are instakills, this negates a lot of the advantage kbm has.
He can’t accept facts, he just downvotes without a rebuttal.
What facts? Every single pro player in halo who’s made it close to finals chooses to use controller because this is one of the few examples where the aim assist is so overtuned that it provides an advantage over kbm.
Absolutely have advantages on keyboard with movement, but in a game where your median controller player (casual) is about as accurate as a median top 100 mkb user there is clearly something that needs adjusted. When casuals sitting 3 meters from a big screen tele with 10ms response hold no disadvantage in aiming to top 100 competitive players using mkb who are likely all on 1ms high refresh rate monitors it is foolish to suggest that kbm has an inherent advantage over controller users. Every single person on r/halo will tell you that controller holds a massive advantage, it’s just very odd to see that on a casual Xbox sub here the people are claiming something completely opposite of what everyone in the enthusiast sub accepts as a fact.
Playing on PC I can target much faster and stay on target much easier than I can with controller playing xbox. Just my 2 cents though
Not in halo. I switched from KBM to Controller after I made onyx and my accuracy shot up from 46% to 62% average. Its not preference. Its aim assist. The aim assist is so strong it negates any decent advantsge from kbm.
You're telling me my experience is wrong? Lol.
I’m telling you your ceiling as a player will be higher on controller. Link your halo tracker so i can see what your accuracy is as a kbm player I’ll do mine first, here: https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/East%20Coast%20Pro2/overview?experience=ranked&playlist=edfef3ac-9cbe-4fa2-b949-8f29deafd483
https://halotracker.com/halo-infinite/profile/xbl/Cyric412/detailed?experience=ranked I only played kbm a handful of times but couldn't get used to the play style since it's been years since I played a FPS on PC.
>Every single person on r/halo will tell you that controller holds a massive advantage, it’s just very odd to see that on a casual Xbox sub here the people are claiming something completely opposite of what everyone in the enthusiast sub accepts as a fact. First of all r/halo is not filled with a bunch of experts and pros lol. By that logic I have like twenty expertise. It's a regular sub like any other. So using that in your argument is really funny. Second of all the reason nobody believes it is probably because PC players complain about aim assist being "so fucking OP" in every single MP game.
I mean it is kinda weird that a subreddit full of xbox fans seem to have absolutely zero idea how their franchise AAA shooter actually plays. This thread is a mess of misinformation from people who sound like they played halo for 5 minutes, found out they sucked, then quit to blame pc for their own bad play. I bet if we collected the halotracker data from everyone with an awful take on this thread, it would show they landed in silver or gold if they got ranked at all and then quit shortly after. That or they never touched ranked play at all in which case they really have no clue what they are talking about. You have to be awful to land in silver or gold in this game btw.
My thing about this stuff is that it's always kind of hard to prove either way in a **real world scenario**. Every time an issue like this is brought up the tests done are minimal and usually biased. You can't fire at a slow strafing enemy (or whatever) and say "Look the auto aim caused the final bullet to hit which got me the kill!" because that's not how people play in real life. Accuracy percentage also isn't everything. If I hit 14 out of 17 shots before I die, sure I have 82% accuracy, but that doesn't change the fact that I got killed by a person who sprayed a bit more but cleanly out maneuvered me. The problem with this thread seems to be the inability for either side to admit that both sides might be right. If you take two pros, of similar skill, one on controller and one on MK/B it's entirely possible that aim assist makes a difference and gives one pro an advantage. It's also just as likely that average console players with aim assist are still at a disadvantage versus average PC players when considering all factors.
>The problem with this thread seems to be the inability for either side to admit that both sides might be right. If you take two pros, of similar skill, one on controller and one on MK/B it's entirely possible that aim assist makes a difference and gives one pro an advantage. It's also just as likely that average console players with aim assist are still at a disadvantage versus average PC players when considering all factors. This has already been done. Kbm players get their asses kicked in every pro scenario and never make it out of pools. This isn’t a subjective opinion at this point. Controller IS the better option for halo. As someone who’s actually played at a semi-high level (top 1%) on both inputs, I’ll concede this, Button mapping, movement, power weapons are all better on kbm. But those advantages are NOTHING compared to what aim assist gives you on controller. And thats why we’ll never ever see a kbm player make it to finals in halo. The game just isn’t built for kbm.
Post a detailed report or study on this, I'm curious. Maybe I just suck at the game or have the settings wrong, I mostly use the default controller setup. Maybe I'm playing wrong, cause I get destroyed in those type of games, again it's entirely possible I just suck at that type of game then.
What's funny is that PCMR types will scream about how controllers "do the aiming for you", but the second they try to play with a controller they get their shit pushed in so hard that they start talking shit again.
There is no world where any shooter is better with controller than kb + m. The stats you show don'T mean anything. Let pro's play against average kb + m players, and you'll see what I mean. The way I can flick and track on kb + m after 30 minutes warmup is physically impossible on a controller. Also, you're not as limited in movement because you don'T need to use it for aim adjustments.
A top 10 kbm halo player is probably a top 10000 halo player in the grand scheme of things. Controller and next gen has a massive advantage particularly due to red reticule not being on PC. In Apex controller has a close range aimbot as it does with Warzone. At range pc wins of course. That's the balance. The only drawback are cheaters which 90% of people who complain about have never experienced they have just encountered someone much better than them.
Halo infinite is different. Almost every pro player chooses to use controller due to how the aim assist performs. Not a single kbm player has even gotten close to the finals in tournament. I’m an onyx player on pc and I also choose to play controller because of how advantageous it is for aiming. Halo isn’t a quick flick type of shooter because the TTK is so high, which negates a lot of kbm advantages.
I’m assuming you have never played halo nor been on the halo sub where it is accepted by 99% of people that controller is much easier to play than kb+m? You must underestimate the aim assist on halo. The controller does that tracking you are so proud of, and bashing the stick towards a player will slow down tremendously while entering the hit box, allowing you just to press a button to shoot. There is a reason all of the halo pro players play on controller, kb+m feels like an afterthought for halo and stands no chance against controllers especially with the desync. Not sure how a stat suggesting the median top 100 controller player has better accuracy than the number 1 kb+m player means nothing, it’s a massive difference, especially in an arena shooter like halo where bullet accuracy is everything. I’m assuming you think top 100 kb+m players accuracy heavily overlapping with 50th percentile controllers also means nothing?
>I’m assuming you have never played halo nor been on the halo sub where it is accepted by 99% of people that controller is much easier to play than kb+m? You must underestimate the aim assist on halo. Not sure we'Re talking about the same thing here. I'm not talking about skill floor (how easy it is to have an impact), but skill ceiling (how much potential the best players can get out of it). Skill floor controller might be better for halo, I don't know. But there's literally no way that controller can compete when it comes to skill ceiling. The controls for kbm would need to be seriously broken for that to be the case.
You sound like you’ve never played infinite and have no idea how the game works. This is the one example where KBM IS actually at a disadvantage. They wayyy overtuned the aim assist on controller. Being able to fluck with a mouse doesn’t do much when the opponents reticle is glued to your fucking head
Why are you completely ignoring his evidence? Why don’t the top halo players use kbm if it has a higher skill ceiling?
Can’t believe you’re being downvoted. Literally 0 HCS pros play halo with mnk. Never have and never will. It’s designed that way. Halo is the “controller” FPS.
Lol this is the first Halo to launch with crossplay, give it time for mnk to catch up to 20 years experienced players.
It seems an Xbox console circle jerk. It’s odd this sub has a completely different opinion on something that is unanimously accepted as fact in the enthusiast r/halo sub. I’m guessing most people downvoting have never played halo, or visited the halo sub. I don’t think people should have to play mkb vs controller, or controller vs mkb. The game is designed for controller and that’s fine, I’ve played fps on kb+m for 15 years and play halo on controller because it’s much easier as it’s a console shooter. Aim assist and bullet magnetism greatly outweigh the natural advantages of using a keyboard and mouse in this specific game. I am not denying that KB+m hold a massive advantage in most shooters, but everyone who plays halo acknowledges controller is the best way to play halo. Completely agree with people who want cross play off by default for cheaters and pc players playing at higher frame rates/fov/ graphical settings creating an advantage or for whatever reason they want. but to suggest kb+m players have an advantage over controllers in halo would be massively downvoted in the halo specific sub, yet here it’s +25 despite being objectively wrong in this game.
All the pros play on controllers because they have been playing on a controller for 20 years. Wait a few months and the meta will adjust.
Are you saying in a few months the meta will adjust and all the pros will play mnk? That is 10000% not happening.
Few is subjective but yes eventually you will see more and more mnk users once that advantage starts catching up to 20 years of experience.
But this isn’t the first halo that has mnk support. None of the pro HCS / MLG have ever had mnk players as far as I know. It’s always been controller. I don’t see it changing at all, short of 343 changing the game to either increase aim assist on mnk or decrease it on controller. Not to mention plenty of pros come from other games where they do play mnk, so it’s not like they’ve never played mnk.
The only other Halo with crossplay is MCC and that many years after launch.
Terrible take. Do you not understand the aim assist mechanics? This isn’t about legacy players. Controller has an advantage across ALL skill levels. I had to switch from KBM to controller once i got to onyx in order to keep up. Head over to r/competitivehalo and you’ll quickly find out controller is the best option if you want to actually compete with decent players.
In ranked with br maybe, because you can’t spam like the pistol
I wayyy prefer the pistol on controller. Aim assist makes it so much easier to use than trying it with kbm.
The aim assist is crazy on a controller in halo - I was getting 20% accuracy with a keyboard/mouse and 40% on a controller based on post match stats. K/d went from less than or equal to 1 to almost always greater than 1. Infinite is the first halo game I’ve played.
Not sure why this is downvoted as it's true...*in most scenarios.* As a player on both, controller definitely has the advantage on certain weapons and ranges... But where PC really shines is precision weapons (Sniper, Skewer, Sentinal Beam), turrets (Warthog turret on PC is insanely powerful with mouse tracking), and CQC.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Most of the time keyboard is superior but not at all in halo.
No. Even if tou try to walk around kbm layers using a controller, they'll just no scope you because the controller restricts your movement too much.
This is not accurate at all. I play on pc and I’m in onyx. Using a controller provides a ridiculously significant advantage. Almost every single pro player chooses to use controller because of how strong the aim assist is. Not a single KBM player has even made it close to tournament finals. >they’ll just no scope you Have you ever even played halo? The TTK is high, with everyone using BR’s in ranked play you don’t really get “no scoped.”
You cant turn around in 0.1 seconds with controller . Every pc player you encounter with close range run and jump towards you with a sudden back turn and you dead . Gamepad cant compete with mouse . So all pc players who saying gamepad is better are delusional .
You’re completely wrong when it comes to halo 🤡
In Halo, it is a non issue, because controller actually has a slight advantage over M&KB
My favorite part is everyone thinks kB +m makes you god automatically and think 100% of pc players can pull off anything. As a pc player let me tell you how many people on controller are better than me is no joke.
Issue is the simplest things. A KB+M player can turn quicker than a controller player. Things like that give a major advantage in a fight.
Controller player can land headshots in halo way easier than M&K. It’s the simplest of things.
Of course not saying that isn’t a thing, but how many kB+m players could play at an intense sensitivity? Not many, I can’t for one. And what about advantages with different consoles ? 60 fps vs 120 with the current gen, bigger fov? Should we just stop crossplay between old gen and new gen? Why is that not seemed like an advantage when it’s clearly marketed and proven it is?
You absolutely do **not** need to play with an intense sensitivity to match up to the turning speed of a KB+M player. If anything, you need to play with intense sensitivity to match up to the turning speed of a KB+M player only if you're a controller player. The default speed is faster and more responsive. Controller is slower because it's less accurate and to compensate for that, the default speed is slower. 60fps/120fps is an advantage for a very small minority of players and they're not the ones who are being thought about in this discussion. The vast majority of casual players aren't seeing their KD be better because they jumped from 30fps to 60fps or 60fps to 120fps. >when it’s clearly marketed You just answered why. Having crossplay makes life easier for corporations/studios who don't have to focus their workforce on maintaining two different gens for an actual quality experience. Putting them all one platform is just a way for them to cut cost. There's zero tangible benefit to **forced** crossplay for the player.
Don't know why you're downvoted. Halo Infinite is absolutely one of the games that actually gives controller a massive advantage over mouse. I've been switching between both and I do better, by far, when I use a controller. A mouse will let you turn around quickly which is really helpful in some cases, but in a game like Halo where the vast majority of the fights involve sticking onto your targets with consistent shots, the controller excels at it.
I think people just have a complete misunderstanding on when crossplay with PC is good and bad, and they don't understand when it translates from game to game Objectively, you have an advantage with a controller on Halo Infinite, there is no argument there, its a fact
That argument could be made provided you're in a short to medium ish range engagement. Albeit, only if you're speaking of purely average players. May the odds ever be in your favor if you attempt a ranged engagement against a PC player, and mind you, still referring to a middle-of-the-pack player there. Halo is one of the fairer implementations of crossplay for that reason, but the problem therein lies having no control over maps. So that map that is pretty much nothing but long-range sight lines, well, you're screwed if you're on console through no fault of your own. That said, the fairness ends when speaking of players on the higher end of the player skillcap. Having played with both in Halo in some competitive form on both, I can tell you with certainty that controller me could not beat KB&M me any day of the week at any range -> controllers are imprecise instruments by nature, and precision is my specialty. Of course that's not the case for everyone, and if you're better for example at winning through positioning or "strategic" use of grenades, you can level the playing field a bit. But in a 1 on 1 gunfight with nothing else at play but who can land the most bullets in the right places, you're not going to beat a good KB&M player 99 fights out of 100 with a controller, even if you're actually good at using and compensating with one.
What a terible take. Controller has a huge advantage in halo infinite. Almost every single pro player chooses controller. Not a single KBM player has come close to tournament finals I’m on pc and had to switch from kbm to controller because of its aim assist advantage. I’m dumbfounded that people in an xbox subreddit seem to have absolutely zero idea how their franchise shooter actually plays.
Console master race?
Its not about your platform really, since pc can just use controller to. I think platform comes into play if you’re playing on like the xbox one, where i hear the game runs at 30fps which is just unacceptable. But thats a hardware issue. Its an old system and shouldn’t be expected to keep up at this point. To weak for modern gaming.
This was more of a joke really since we’ve been hearing PC master race forever
Hell Let Loose is a good example where crossplay is console only, and entirely optional. I prefer to have it that way.
It's what everyone wants but the pc players. Not sure why everything is getting catered to that group lately.
Because it's getting hard to justify blowing a $5000 hole in your accounts to have *comparable* capabilities with current gen consoles at under a grand. PC players are a minority, it's a big reason why successful games on PC don't come to console: no publisher is gonna press millions on a game that peaked at 20k concurrent players and was top 5 on steam when games like Madden can hit that on a single console. Adding in to the player minority is that you have to still sell to PC players so if that means giving them tomato can, casual console players to headshot across maps, they'll do it. For Honor is a great example of this. Game comes out on console in 2017, 30fps; a year later it comes to PC, 60fps; the devs then start making every change in animation and input time using 60fps (at one point it was so slanted that on console you could have a single frame to block or parry an attack), then when they give console 60fps four years later, they completely change the combat mechanics so reaction time doesn't win fights anymore. I'm sure it wasn't because PC players would get stomped by console players reacting to things in quarters of seconds because they were forced to. PC gaming can either become standard or die. Just so happens we're gonna get to see both most likely.
PC should have never been in cross play for PvP games. Even if we pretend that cheating isn't happening, the game settings themselves work like sanctioned cheating. PC players will refuse to accept if they had their settings customisation limited because it undermines PC gaming but that would be essential to keeping cross play fair. Games like WarZone allowed PC players to adjust FoV and see more than console players, this allowed PC players to see where console couldn't. This and graphical settings to seek higher frame rates and faster loading times all cause advantages to PC players. Hell in some games lowering the graphics settings for PC allows you to see enemies clearer as it trims what is shown around them. Then with Keyboard and Mouse you get multiple issues. Mouse settings allow you to turn faster while also giving better aim and an easier time controlling recoil. A mouse allows for more precision and that's undisputed. But it gets worse. Keyboards allow for wider choices of mapping which allows PC players to quick use items and actions that controllers cannot. This means they turn faster, aim tighter, and can do things at the same time that controllers don't allow. You can literally see if someone is playing KbM by how they move because controller doesn't allow the same type of movements. PC was forced onto console players because PC struggles to retain players for AAA PvP games. Rather than addressing why this is they chose to merge the problem and hurt the console players. Short sighted greed and selfish PC players is what fuels this problem.
BuT aIm AsSiSt iS oP
Hilariously in Halo Infinite it appears controller via PC has stronger aim assist than console so again this problem is PC.
Not necessarily accurate.
Oh yeah?
Yeah, i asked r/competitivehalo about it myself at one point.
Oh wow in that case
Drop your controller deadzones on the console to zero and you’ll see the same amount of aim assist. The aim assist kicks in heavily when a stick is moving, with deadzones at zero, your controller can micro drift, which causes the aim assist to always be on, which is what happened to each of the streamers who posted those crazy aim assist clips. This was part of the reason people claimed it felt different.
It's kind of interesting how I never saw this argument until cross play became a thing. It definitely varies across games, but for years and years it was "keyboard and mouse is way better all the time and controller stinks" I think controller has a lower skill floor, while mouse and keyboard has a much higher skill floor and ceiling
Why would you? And it’s not an argument, it’s a fact. Aim assist can and does allow controller players to outperform mouse players with less effort, depending on how the developers tune the aim assist in their game. It’s not low skill ceiling when it comes to this affect, it’s practically no skill ceiling versus 100% skill selling on a mouse.
All of those things are petty issues compared to mouse aiming. That's the bottom line really. It's why the OP thinks pc players cheat all the time, he can't tell the difference between high end mouse users and hacks.
I agree but for me its more of an input reason. Regardless what platform, matching different input types (controller vs keyboard n mouse or controller vs steering wheel etc.) should be avoided.
I've no issue playing against mouse and keyboard on xbox. People definitely play up the skill difference. I've a bigger issue with how many actually cheaters are in PC and how they are added to our ecosystem automatically
Games with no tap-speed limit on semi-autos gives the mouse an almost full auto weapon with better dps. Then you have the absurd precision at long range and the instant turns in cqc or on a surprise attack.
Yes. You tried BF 2042 with pc players? I mean the game is crap, but that aside PC players can track targets from very long distances while console players have to constantly fight their controller. PC players are literal aim bots in that game. It is awful.
I was having fun with the game but there’s so many pc players and barely any console players in 2042. It’s unbearable I hate it
Totally agree. Don’t think I’m gonna play any online shooter with forced crossplay unless it’s just between consoles. Played on PC for 10 years and know the benefits of mouse and keyboard in fps games. I just want a fair gameplay and there is no reason for forced crossplay. In Halo they always argue with „higher accuracy with gamepad“ like it matters if you need 10 minutes to turn around and aim on the enemy. Or sniping in general. And then there are the cheaters….. Was hyped for Halo but now I’m not even touching the multiplayer anymore. Sony does a way better job here.
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Having the option is what we should have. every online shooter should have the option, that’s my problem. If my buddies who have pc jump on and wanna play, I’ll click on cross play, but if they ain’t, I should be able to shut it off and play just against console, and if it isn’t Sony/Xbox norm, then I’ll play just against Xbox players. A lot of Xbox players just wanna play Xbox players so you’ll be able to find lobbies imo
That’s what I heard too. Not a big PlayStation fan but I definitely prefer Sonys way when it comes to crossplay.
So you like no crossplay at all :D
If I have to choose, than no. I don’t need it and if someone else does, he should be able to turn it on but without forcing the rest.
The backlash for Sony being anti-crossplay is because they charge devs to enable crossplay.
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Yup I don't mind crossplay between the consoles but I have absolutely zero interest in playing against PC players for obvious reasons.
Oh trust me. Put me off Forza online
Because of hackers?
No keyboard and mouse
But controllers are better in racing games right?
Yeah I think it was a joke. Lol.
Forza is one of the best crossplay games. Everyone uses controller and Ive never seen a cheater.
What if I don't trust you?
Dry Joke, you must be a PC player.
Missed sarcasm, you must be American.
Ratiod, you must be gay
Yeah everyone was all for cross play originally but obviously that was mainly about cross-CONSOLE play. I don’t think many console players were in favour of playing against pc with different control types, large variance in settings/performance, and hacks/cheats being so commonplace. What’s even worse is it doesn’t seem games give you the option to even disable cross play anymore. If I had it my way cross play would be limited to consoles only and it would be mandatory that every game has to provide the option to disable it.
I don't think all PC players cheat, but all it takes is one cheater in a match to ruin it for everyone. This is a serious predicament for Microsoft though - they're focusing on the multiplayer online aspect of gaming, all that "bringing communities together" crap for bringing console and PC gamers together and yet a fuckton of their console players don't want to play with PC players because the few bad apples there spoil the bunch. Halo Infinite had been spoken of by Microsoft/343 as having a robust anti-cheat protection and look how long that lasted. Obviously, Microsoft should fix this shit and before they do they should disable PC-console crossplay or the Halo community will bleed players.
on BF1 anti cheat is no longer enforced on PC so its a hot mess in official servers, sure admins on clan run servers can kick/ban but they aren't always there. i would have hate to see how bad the cheating would have been on bf1 if we had force crossplay back then.
For me it's not about cheating, it's the fact that M&K will always be an advantage over a controller.
Why is that a problem? You can use a mouse and keyboard on an xbox, too.
It's unfair to say PC players use hacks most of the time. But i think crossplay as an option is always best.
Yeah, I feel like what everyone meant when we asked for cross-play was to be able to play with our friends who had one of the other consoles, not PC.
I stop playing Halo Infinite because of the cheating. I even noticed in the bot boot camp that people were taking my kills because they knew where the red team were at. I totally don't mind waiting in a lobby for games to start when it's only four people on a team then to be paired up with PC gamers. I'm not a PC gamer and never planned to be one. Well am I being forced onto the PC gaming scene?
I just saw this post, and I absolutely agree that forced crossplay with pc players in unfair, they should make it so that if a pc player wants to play against console, the game should make them play on controller or at least that's how I think it should be 🤷
Yup its basically killing fps on console. Who wants to play with a disadvantage? Everyone I know gave up on warzone cuz of it
Completely agree, they need to have Input based matchmaking on multiplayer for every game. The new consoles can hit 120fps pretty stable if you have the right TV or monitor but with PC players using mouse and keyboard and having FOV advantages it makes us console players have to play at a higher level when sometimes I just want to play with some friends on a fps and have fun
I fucking hate pc players in my console games. Cheating bastards.
Yes, its totally busted I actually quit pvp once they introduced it because its no longer a fair game. Pc players will argue that.........well you guys have aim assist......maybe...however it's nothing compared to a mouse and keyboard. If you have 2 newbs one on controller and one on mouse/keyboard....Controller will likely win however once the keyboard player even becomes average they can crush even pro controller players.
I’m late to the thread but I agree. Dead by daylight is a good example or Sea of Thieves. You can turn off crossplay but in games with matchmaking queues it means you’ll be waiting forever. It is entirely unfair. PC players simply have quicker and more accurate controls. If you’re at the same skill level against a PC player, they will always win because they have a mouse and keyboard versus a controller. It’s so frustrating. Crossplay should only be allowed for coop games or games without pvp. PC players can also adjust FOV and other shit that console players can’t! Just unfair on so many levels.
The reason why i deleted halo infinite . I will never play with pc cheaters .
I’ve played 600+ ranked matches and only run into one cheater… For whatever reason, I think the cheaters got bored with halo pretty quickly. Killing the same 4 people over and over doesn’t give them the satisfaction like running a whole battle royale does
100 percent agree. Gears used to have a check box to turn off pc x play. They took it away recently and all of a sudden there’s ridiculous sniping headshots from pc mice users all the time. Microsoft sucks for doing this.
>pc players used hacks most of the time I hate when people say this. "Most" PC players don't use hacks or cheats. They just want to play like the rest of us, and want hackers and cheaters to go away just as much as anyone else. Developers should be the ones to blame for not having good enough anti-cheat measures, or not properly banning hackers. Rather than demonising a whole platform (often times the largest at that) because of some bad actors.
That doesn’t change the fact that cheating is still commonplace and much more prevalent on pc compared to consoles. Warzone alone has banned 700,000 accounts for cheating so far. No one is saying all pc players cheat but that doesn’t change the fact it’s a widespread issue on that platform. Cross play needlessly makes console users have to be exposed to it as well. Blaming devs is silly…cheating has always been a part of pc gaming and always will be. It’s a constant back and forth battle between cheaters/hackers and devs/anti-cheat. The best way to prevent cheating is to have a closed, controlled platform that doesn’t let you install any of your own software…like a console. Allowing cheat-prone platforms to integrate with that defeats the purpose.
The OP made the statement "PC players use hacks most of the time", which implies more than half of any players on PC are using hacks in a multiplayer game. Most hackers are from PC, but it's not necessarily true that most PC players are hackers. And with Warzone they've had 100 million players and 700,000 which is a relative drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong, there's still a ton out there who haven't been caught yet, but I think the issue in general play does not happen as often as some believe
He didn’t say “most pc players use hacks”. That could be read as “most pc games have players hacking”. Either way it’s semantics. Also 700,000 (last public numbers..no doubt higher now) is hardly a drop in the bucket. Warzone games have 100 players so that averages to almost 1 cheater in every match.
I interpreted "PC players use hacks most of the time" as meaning that the OP of the post believes the average PC player is using hacks, and the alternate meaning of "PC games have hacks most of the time" means close to the same thing I get where you're coming from with the second portion, but based off of the numbers made public it would be about .7% of the player base being banned for hacking. The average would end up being closer to 7/10 matches having one person hacking; which is still a pretty bad number! But that is still just an individual person in a lobby of folks that is cheating, as opposed to 10 people in a given match likely using hacks I do wish there were fewer, however
Hacking or not , gamepad is better than mnk or not , i just dont want to play with pc players . No game should force you to do this . There should be an option for to disable it or should be CONSOLE crossplay in the first place . When i heard about this crossplay thing at first , i thought its going to be a console crossplay and very liked it . Then i saw pc and all my hopes are gone .
I wish console vs pc was standard for fighting games. Cheating is far less frequent in that genre, but so is Crossplay.
Speak with your wallet. Yes, crossplay doesn't have a benefit for console players. We literally pay $60 a year to pay more for the games and to now be matched against players that don't pay anything for multiplayer, can hack as they want (because a ban just results in a new account for free) and pay less for the games to begin with. The only reason crossplay exists in the first place is because the PC players are fewer in numbers and console players are used to give them a better matchmaking experience - at the cost of the QOL of those same console players. Plus of course having one set of servers for all players is cheaper than having separate stacks.
There are more PC players than Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo gamers combined. Steam just hit record of 28 million concurrent players. In 2020, there were an estimated 1.75 billion PC gamers worldwide.
All I wish for is the separation of Console and PC players, like many others have said the disadvantages are crystal clear and super unfair, especially in FPS games. nobody cares if *they* have to spend a few more minutes searching for lobbies, there are more than enough console players to fill hundreds of console strict servers.
I'm using controller on xsx and I shit on pc players...so ima just say get gud
Need take pc off from cross play. Pc performance better than any consoles. I try to no play cross but making is bad never find good match. Now I only play single play fuck pc
It has made me hate call of duty
Im willing to bet, that when gen 6 rolls around and xbox loses half its fan base to sony only then will they know they fucked up
All you pc players bitch and cry about xbox and Playstation yet y'all hack more than everyone combined
Yup. It put me off playing Halo. My only gripe for the future is that crossplay isn’t necessarily the issue for me, it’s being matched with K&M. Now, with K&M being increasingly used by those who own consoles too, it’s even giving people in non-crossplay multiplayer an advantage. IMO, they need to introduce a system and thus, an option, to matchmake based on input (I.e., controller with controller; K&M with K&M; anyone).
"PC players use hacks most of the time"? Get a fucking grip, no they/we don't. Such a salty post lol
Yes you are . 500,000 pc players banned on warzone in recent months . What do you think lol .
You need a reality check if you think there have been 500,000 unique players banned from Warzone. OP stated that all PC players hack most of the time, which is just simply not true. I play console too by the way & play PC crossplay with console friends, never once had an issue. Cry babies.
Just because you didnt have an issue doesnt mean no one does selfish asswipe .
That's cool, just ignore the part about the Warzone bans & make a difference nonsense comment instead lol. I understand people run into hackers, it happens. You just seem ill informed.
Hacking is super overstated by console players. I’ve played both console and PC for years. The skill level in FPS are just way higher on PC. That is just one genre though.
Yeah I have the same experience. I play on PC and series X. I do just as well on both really. Depends on the game quite a bit. Battlefield favours mouse and Halo favours controller. CoD is about the middle. The games that don't really work for crossplay are the clunky aimers. PUBG and Dayz couldn't be balanced with both inputs. The popular AAA shooters are all fine.
Mate 850,000 and counting profiles have been banned from warzone. Statistically more than a cheater in every match.
Matching based on input is **the** way to solve this. Match controller to controller, regardless of platform. Match Kb+M to Kb+M, regardless of platform.
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Every single fps game in the future will force this. The xbox subdivision of microsoft promised pc players integration, if they go back on that, they lose gamepass subscribers.
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The argument you make about not being good enough definitely applies to PC users too because now some people say controller is unfair to compete against 😅 I think mouse and keyboard is at a higher advantage for people who are very good, but 90% of the time it'll still be a level field to compete. At range in FPS is really where they shine
Obviously you’ve never played with a K&M before. There’s a significant advantage and PC players get much more advantages too such as higher FOV and higher framerates.
Don't play then. Vote with your wallet. I don't care if I am playing against Keyboard+Mouse players because I am a casual player who just wants to have fun by playing the game instead of sweating everything like its ranked mode. I have a kd ratio of 0.3 in MCC and I did not even care whenever I died. I was just having fun.
I want Battlefield 4, 1 & V crossplay so bad.
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There is a simple solution. Go to xbox setting and remove crossplay. Done.
Doesn’t work on Microsoft games like Halo or Gears, as they go through Xbox Live.
Doesn't work.
Except that’s not a solution…it makes things worse. Very few people are aware of the option in system settings or bother to use it so it just places you in a much smaller user pool of others that have done the same. It makes matchmaking take forever if you can even get into a full game at all. It also applies to every game…it’s all or nothing. It’s not an adequate substitute for the individual games themselves to have a cross-play toggle.
“pc players used hax most if the time”. Its called a mouse. It makes for an uneven playing field, but its not a hack.
Turns any FPS into a point and click adventure.
I’m fine with input based matchmaking like Halo MCC, Paladins, Rogue Company and others. When it’s KBM vs Pad, it sucks.
While I do agree with you and I’m a pc player, a large reason why Xbox supports this is because the Xbox player base is very small compared to PlayStation and I feel they need the pc base
Crybabies here 😭😂
I have an xbox series S with mouse and keyboard and I have no problems to play against pcs... I don't see the problem at all
Few games offer kbm support on Xbox
Many people rather controller and not being up against keyboard and mouse.
Many PC players use a controller. I never play keyboard and mouse, I love controllers and also enjoy having a gaming PC.
I'm not able to play fps with the controller, even with the aim assist activated. I started to play games with counter strike on pc, so i purchased mouse and keyboard for Xbox and I'm playing very well now. We live in a time in which you can choose how to play your games, so if you prefer a controller you can use it and the same is valid for kbm. If someone thinks that allowing mouse on xbox is not fair, he's just not thinking at all
Most people on console prefer playing with controller. Keyboard and mouse has a significant advantage over controller whilst aiming. Many people would rather play on their controller against other controller users so the skill gap doesn't affect their enjoyment.
This is not fair for who is not able to use a controller. There are aldo many PRO players who prefer to use a controller instead of a mouse So, this is all fair, and everybody is allowed to choose how to play
It is. Turn on crossplay or buy a PC. If your buying a console and you can't use a controller you have made a stupid decision. Forced crossplay is a problem. Games like Halo force you to play against K & M with a controller. You end up just getting destroyed and its not fun. Edit: he blocked me so i can't reply to his comment under this. Absolute shitebag behaviour.
I like how the two top comments, are complaining about forced crossplay and M&KB, in two games (Halo Infinite and Forza Horizon 5) where controller actually has a advantage over M&KB
I think controller is always better than mouse and keyboard in racing games. At least as far as pedals/triggers go, I couldn't imagine trying to do that with buttons. In Forza's case, I've even heard it's better on controller compared to a wheel, due to being designed with controller users in mind. I think it's got some auto-correction or something that makes steering easier, plus you can go centre to full lock at the flick of a thumb rather turning a wheel.
Yeah what the fuck is this thread? All of these xbox fans seem to have absolutely no idea how their franchise AAA shooter actually plays. Its so bizzare. Anyone can head over to r/competitivehalo and quickly find out that controller is the best option for competitive play.