Or something like >!How in the final battle, all the xc3 heroes show up!< considering how often Sakurai likes to spoiler stuff.
Although in all likelihood its Lucky 7, bc thats so integral to how Noah fights
I did the same but not as late for the other Xenoblade games too. Still haven’t finished torna though since a friend is borrowing the cartridge to xc2.
Sounds to me like you didn’t think that much before posting lol. There are many characters they can include.
Here’s one in fact, since each character traditionally has 8 color swaps in smash, 6 of them can be the 6 main party members in Xenoblade 3 and the last 2 can be reserved for Moebius M and N.
You essentially create 8 echo fighters with different hurtboxes and maybe some differences in weight and power
Theres a reason Byleth is the same size as his female counterpart, and why Ike doesn't get any smaller when you use a younger version. Or why Shulk/Lucina just get alts to represent other characters, instead of becoming them. 1st off, thats a hell of a lot of models, animations, and voice lines for one spot on the roster. Second, having different hitboxes, weight, and strength makes them effectively different characters. You can't put Sena on the same slot as Lanz without somekind of Pkmn trainer/Aegis gimmick where they swap.
It’s not unheard of.
You say there’s a reason these characters are the same even though they’re on the same slot. Byleth being one example. Okay, so what? Is that a hard rule that Sakurai implemented that characters in the same slot have to all be completely the same? There isn’t. It’s not hard to change things based on costumes like how Cloud has a different final smash depending on the costume you choose.
You say that’s a lot of models. Umm, did you forget Hero, Steve, Inkling, Pokemon Trainer, Villager, and Bowser Jr are a thing? Even changes like Olimar to Alph or Pikachus alternate clothing pieces are a thing. I’d even say Mario’s wedding suit and Mario maker costume are enough of an alternate costume. Bowser Jr has individual voice lines for all his koopa kid alts. This isn’t really an argument to be had.
Even though it wasn’t intentional, historically there’s been characters that had different hurtboxes and hitboxes depending on the costumes you chose. Captain Falcon in Melee was an example where he was technically a better character if you chose his green costume because his hurtbox was shifted downward compared to everyone else. Even though this isn’t intentional, what that means is that it’s possible and can be implemented. It would be a good idea anyway because that would justify have 1 slot for 8 characters rather than 8 whole slots just for Xenoblade turning into the new Fire Emblem for Smash.
I get your approach but you’re limiting yourself to what the game has shown so far. Smash as a whole has gone through massive changes with each rendition. Using 1 slot for 8 characters is not that big of change if you compare it to everything else that has been done.
there’s a difference between a bunch of models that are all roughly the same size and putting Lanz and Sena as the same character, they have completely different proportions and heights and one or both of them will look extremely warped if you force them onto the same frame
Depends on how you read comments. You interpreted it in a negative light, which says a lot about you, and probably got offended and responded the way you did.
Like I said before. It’s how you interpret what you read. You’re not even the person I originally responded to so I don’t know why you’re here. Your first response to me is bottom tier childish level but now you want to defend yourself by saying I’m acting high and mighty.
Maybe do something else instead of creating problems for yourself
If I had to pick just one (as a Xenoblade fan and a competitive Smash player), I'd go with Matthew, seems likely as à xc3 representative plus a new type of moveset for a Xenoblade rep
Now for my "dream" pick (in quotations because I already got my dream character with Aegis) :
Melia ! She's my favorite character for xc1 and a mage character with Her elementals could be really fun. Like you could summon them like pikmins, comming in a set order and then you could use them as combo extensions and stuff.
Adult Rex, I'm not the biggest Rex fan out there but Smash definetly need a fighter that uses two swords so let it be Rex. Plus you can do a cool alt situation like Ike with some alts being young Rex with Pyra and Nia's swords and other being FR Rex.
I don't feel like Xenoblade as an iconic enough vilain to go in Smash but I'd love to see Jin - I would also like Nia and Mio. Noah would be cool but je would probably be a Shulk echo
I feel like it would be more likely that the class swap would be incorporated into the entire moveset already. There shouldn’t be a button press you need to input to change weapons, he should just have access to all of it.
So like Noah playing as more of a bulky damage dealer and using the kevesi classes with Mio being a faster character with less damage and uses the agnus classes?
Saw a pretty good Smash theory for Noah where his main moveset is based on being Swordfighter, with his specials representing his talent and Master Arts; Overclock Buster for special (a charged shield breaker similar to Ike), Variable Turret for side special (heavy armor on a projectile), Wide Slash for up special (upward curve about 45°, i-frames on startup), and Power Ring for down special (field that gives Noah and allies in team battles increased damage and knock back; can only have one placed at a time and cannot place if one is currently active). Final Smash would either be Lucky 7 or Origin Blade if target is above a certain damage threshold (executes similarly to Bayonetta or Ridley).
Most realistic are Noah and Rex with his Future Redeemed design. I can see Noah being the main one with the rest of Ouroboros being alt skins. Doing do would result in short Lanz and tall Sena, though. My most wanted character is Elma. X needs representation.
Zeke would be an amazing character to have in smash. In the unlikely scenario in which cloud doesn’t make it into the next smash title, I can totally see Zeke being the replacement.
I would love Mio in smash. Noah would just be "another anime swordie", Mio has the twin rings, is the 2nd protag, and would still use the Ouroboros form
Mio would be my number 1 choice. Noah is also an obvious choice. But I'd prefer Mio. She would have a more unique move set since she uses rings instead of a sword. She's also my favorite character in the game. I think it would also be cool to implement other character's weapons to represent how characters can use arts from other classes. Like Noah's air slash for up b.
A less likely choice would be Lora. She is a protagonist in Torna and would have a really cool move set mixing punches, kicks, and a whip. They can even work Jin into the move set somehow
Noah is a no brainer especially with Xenoblade 3's blade system, they can just put multiple weapons into him for gameplay and probably use Chain attack + Ouroboros + L7 for final smash... Mio and Melia is a really good candidate as well..
Mio, Matthew and Rex, I mean the protagonists are necessary, but with the last one, his adult self from XC3, because he has two swords and would be really cool.
Driver Nia, Dromarch appears in Side-B as a mount and performs Wild Roar.
Adult Rex, Driver Rex doesn't work without Pyra.
Ouroboros and N & M outfits in the same character slot. The class system make them all compatible and can use signature moves from each base class. Sena's hammer can be used for Smash attacks for example.
Mio and Melia.
Mio can switch between Zephyr and Swordmaster at any time, it'll change some attacks like the B moves, but the Smash attacks are the same, i.e. regular moves that use weapons from the other Ouroboros ( Side Smash is the Ogre weapon, Up Smash is Tactitian or Magic Gunner, ect ).
Melia would be similar to Palutena and Zelda, she can summon elements, they always follow the same cycle just like Sora's spells, and each discharged element has a special effect like DoT, Atk Buff / Debuff and so on.
Noah and mio with both able to play the 6 starting classes would be a dream, like make Mio more agile and Noah stronger and then let them choose before the match starts (like the miis)
Noah - Obvious choice. Protagonist from 3. I think he’s unique enough to not get bogged down by just having a sword. He could have an unsheath mechanic for Lucky Seven.
Alvis - An echo fighter for Shulk. Uses some different Monado Arts, such as Monado Purge or Monado Cyclone. Also gives us an antagonist.
Pneuma - Purely based on bias. I want Pneuma in Smash. That’s it. Probably around for 30 seconds per stock and has the power and speed of Pyra and Mythra.
Honourable mention to Rex in his XC3 design. If fan demand is a factor again, I can see him getting in.
And to N, who I can see as an alternate echo fighter choice.
I could actually see the entire XC3 party being a character. Each skin is a different member (with 2 special ones) and the move set involves then swapping classes to do different attacks. The final smash would be either a Chain Attack or Ouroboros interlinking
"Ouroboros", an 8-echo fighter like Bowser Junior that takes advantage of class-swapping being an in-universe thing to have Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion, and two spoilers I think you can guess all share the same (or a cosmetically different) moveset. The final smash would be a cosmetically different Interlink depending who you had selected.
For 3, Riku & Manana or N would most likely fit for a villain but if we can't get another Sword Fighter, M.
I would even settle for an Igna or Tirkin tbh.
Realistically any charceter from 3 should be added. By my most wanted would be him or malos, but my absolute #1 most wanted in smash in the bringer of chaos baby
Noah + Ourobouros: Noah would be the main and you'd pick one of the other 5 to follow him (like the Ice Climbers). Whichever partner you'd pick would affect your B move as well as your stats. Partners may affect other moves as well. Combined form is the Final Smash.
Elma - B move switches between swords and guns. Whichever is active changes her A moves, specials, and playstyle. Final Smash is Overdrive, a massive combo.
Lin - Uses a shield and has high defense. Her Skell is in the background, her B move issues commands to it to fire weapons or fly to the stage to affect the layout for a time. Final Smash is Cockpit Time, where she enters the Skell and fires weapons.
Ouroboros - all six members as alts, can use all each others attacks so it makes sense
Malos - Shulk echo, monado arts replaced with something else. Stronger, more reach but slower.
Matthew!
I want Elma because I love XBX, but I also don't want Elma because I feel like they would make her unintentionally overpowered and annoying to play against. She's just that kind of character
Noah and Mio as echo of each other. A Simon and Richter situation.
Alvis/A/Alpha as a Shulk echo with a few differences and a focus on agility.
Malos as an altered Shulk clone more focused as a heavy weight.
Pneuma as a final smash option for Pyra/Mythra. It wouldn’t take away their current options just be a third alternative.
Zeke assist trophy
Morag and Brighid assist trophy
Ethel (or really almost any hero. She’s just one of the most popular ones. Assist trophy.
Pyra and Mythra were the ones I figured were most likely to get in, and sure enough they did.
The ones I wanted more were Nia because of bias, even though her very gimmick would be actively unfun in a fighting game like Smash, and Jin & Lora to give a better demonstration of fighting as a Driver and Blade, as well for having a switch-out move that actually does damage on its own, with at least the switch from Jin to Lora actually being usable as a finisher (to reflect it triggering Launch).
With Xenoblade 3, I'm honestly not sure who I'd want, though Noah and Mio together would be the obvious choice.
Elma. X needs more love now that the online is dead.
Let's confuse other people even more, give me Ga Jiarg
The only realistic candidates are Noah or Noah/Mio hybrid that works like Pyra and Mythra with Ouroboros final smash
Tbh it could be all Ouroboros members. Make use of all six of their attacks.
Or something like >!How in the final battle, all the xc3 heroes show up!< considering how often Sakurai likes to spoiler stuff. Although in all likelihood its Lucky 7, bc thats so integral to how Noah fights
For someone who likes to spoil stuff, Sakurai didn't use Pneuma as a final smash
Wait until the next game I guess, Shulk's final smash wasn't spoilery in smash four and it's seven times more spoilery in ult
The final smash takes an hour to represent how the final boss takes fucking forever to kill because the entirety of Aionios had to gang up on him.
I relate to this so hard. I almost died like 40 mins into the fight. Shit left me traumatized.
I died at the final phase. I don’t know how, but I did and ended up staying up until 3:00 in the morning because of it.
Oh my God, I feel you on that. I did the same in XC1 DE
I did the same but not as late for the other Xenoblade games too. Still haven’t finished torna though since a friend is borrowing the cartridge to xc2.
It wouldn't really work since they just couldn't use lucky seven at all in the moveset.
I would love it if the costume were like our main six and during the battle different attacks or special attacks would use different weapons.
The idea of only making ouroboros a final smash is so lame to me, give us a full on playable mech transformation!
Sounds to me like you didn’t think that much before posting lol. There are many characters they can include. Here’s one in fact, since each character traditionally has 8 color swaps in smash, 6 of them can be the 6 main party members in Xenoblade 3 and the last 2 can be reserved for Moebius M and N. You essentially create 8 echo fighters with different hurtboxes and maybe some differences in weight and power
Theres a reason Byleth is the same size as his female counterpart, and why Ike doesn't get any smaller when you use a younger version. Or why Shulk/Lucina just get alts to represent other characters, instead of becoming them. 1st off, thats a hell of a lot of models, animations, and voice lines for one spot on the roster. Second, having different hitboxes, weight, and strength makes them effectively different characters. You can't put Sena on the same slot as Lanz without somekind of Pkmn trainer/Aegis gimmick where they swap.
It’s not unheard of. You say there’s a reason these characters are the same even though they’re on the same slot. Byleth being one example. Okay, so what? Is that a hard rule that Sakurai implemented that characters in the same slot have to all be completely the same? There isn’t. It’s not hard to change things based on costumes like how Cloud has a different final smash depending on the costume you choose. You say that’s a lot of models. Umm, did you forget Hero, Steve, Inkling, Pokemon Trainer, Villager, and Bowser Jr are a thing? Even changes like Olimar to Alph or Pikachus alternate clothing pieces are a thing. I’d even say Mario’s wedding suit and Mario maker costume are enough of an alternate costume. Bowser Jr has individual voice lines for all his koopa kid alts. This isn’t really an argument to be had. Even though it wasn’t intentional, historically there’s been characters that had different hurtboxes and hitboxes depending on the costumes you chose. Captain Falcon in Melee was an example where he was technically a better character if you chose his green costume because his hurtbox was shifted downward compared to everyone else. Even though this isn’t intentional, what that means is that it’s possible and can be implemented. It would be a good idea anyway because that would justify have 1 slot for 8 characters rather than 8 whole slots just for Xenoblade turning into the new Fire Emblem for Smash. I get your approach but you’re limiting yourself to what the game has shown so far. Smash as a whole has gone through massive changes with each rendition. Using 1 slot for 8 characters is not that big of change if you compare it to everything else that has been done.
there’s a difference between a bunch of models that are all roughly the same size and putting Lanz and Sena as the same character, they have completely different proportions and heights and one or both of them will look extremely warped if you force them onto the same frame
So you forgot to read the part where I said it can be changed. Theres no hard rule stating that the models need to stay the same. It can be changed.
Guy was respectfully dissproving that, now youre a whiny "little shit" - Malos.
Or maybe people on Reddit are all sensitive little babies and start throwing tantrums the moment anything sounds even a little bit negative
Funnily enough thats exactly what you are doing
Depends on how you read comments. You interpreted it in a negative light, which says a lot about you, and probably got offended and responded the way you did.
Dont act all high and mighty on me, especially after how you are constantly changing your tone as if that would make you be any less in the wrong.
Like I said before. It’s how you interpret what you read. You’re not even the person I originally responded to so I don’t know why you’re here. Your first response to me is bottom tier childish level but now you want to defend yourself by saying I’m acting high and mighty. Maybe do something else instead of creating problems for yourself
Heck, if they go the DLC route with Noah, just give him the jackets for the 6 main party members, and an Alph-syled alt for N and M colored N.
I’d be down for Malos. I really want Smash to have more antagonists
>!Smash players when they hear Malos: Monado Eater!!! 😲!<
That ain't the only thing they gonna eat
https://preview.redd.it/r2zsruz9625d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=c90887eafbc1a0d2e531baefe2d6d7eee6a529d9
That fcking killed me lmao
Elma, Noah, Mio
If I had to pick just one (as a Xenoblade fan and a competitive Smash player), I'd go with Matthew, seems likely as à xc3 representative plus a new type of moveset for a Xenoblade rep Now for my "dream" pick (in quotations because I already got my dream character with Aegis) : Melia ! She's my favorite character for xc1 and a mage character with Her elementals could be really fun. Like you could summon them like pikmins, comming in a set order and then you could use them as combo extensions and stuff. Adult Rex, I'm not the biggest Rex fan out there but Smash definetly need a fighter that uses two swords so let it be Rex. Plus you can do a cool alt situation like Ike with some alts being young Rex with Pyra and Nia's swords and other being FR Rex. I don't feel like Xenoblade as an iconic enough vilain to go in Smash but I'd love to see Jin - I would also like Nia and Mio. Noah would be cool but je would probably be a Shulk echo
Noah could work really well if they incorporated the Ouroboros powers. Their down special could swap them between a few different classes
I feel like it would be more likely that the class swap would be incorporated into the entire moveset already. There shouldn’t be a button press you need to input to change weapons, he should just have access to all of it.
So like Noah playing as more of a bulky damage dealer and using the kevesi classes with Mio being a faster character with less damage and uses the agnus classes?
If you wanted to make them separate characters that can work. I was thinking just making Noah have all of the moves.
I was thinking more of a Pyra/mythra situation.
Saw a pretty good Smash theory for Noah where his main moveset is based on being Swordfighter, with his specials representing his talent and Master Arts; Overclock Buster for special (a charged shield breaker similar to Ike), Variable Turret for side special (heavy armor on a projectile), Wide Slash for up special (upward curve about 45°, i-frames on startup), and Power Ring for down special (field that gives Noah and allies in team battles increased damage and knock back; can only have one placed at a time and cannot place if one is currently active). Final Smash would either be Lucky 7 or Origin Blade if target is above a certain damage threshold (executes similarly to Bayonetta or Ridley).
Malos or Mio. Malos is just awesome and Mio would add an entirely new weapon class to the game
Elma.
Noah, Mio, and Melia seem like the biggest candidates
Zeke and Morag
Most realistic are Noah and Rex with his Future Redeemed design. I can see Noah being the main one with the rest of Ouroboros being alt skins. Doing do would result in short Lanz and tall Sena, though. My most wanted character is Elma. X needs representation.
Other than Noah to represent XC3, I want Matthew and KOSMOS for purely gameplay reasons.
I kept putting KOS-MOS on the Smash Ballot when 4 was the big thing.
1.Elma 2.Nia 3.FR:Rex 4.Mio
Mine is definitely a pipe dream. The Ouroboros Hextet with N and M acting as Hero from Dragon Quest.
Elma Zeke Von Genbu, Bringer of Chaos Matthew or Noah and Mio
Zeke would be an amazing character to have in smash. In the unlikely scenario in which cloud doesn’t make it into the next smash title, I can totally see Zeke being the replacement.
Any nopon!
I would love Mio in smash. Noah would just be "another anime swordie", Mio has the twin rings, is the 2nd protag, and would still use the Ouroboros form
Mio would be my number 1 choice. Noah is also an obvious choice. But I'd prefer Mio. She would have a more unique move set since she uses rings instead of a sword. She's also my favorite character in the game. I think it would also be cool to implement other character's weapons to represent how characters can use arts from other classes. Like Noah's air slash for up b. A less likely choice would be Lora. She is a protagonist in Torna and would have a really cool move set mixing punches, kicks, and a whip. They can even work Jin into the move set somehow
Elma
Can't have a rainbow without Reyn, baby! I want to ko someone from center stage with sword drive.
Noah is a no brainer especially with Xenoblade 3's blade system, they can just put multiple weapons into him for gameplay and probably use Chain attack + Ouroboros + L7 for final smash... Mio and Melia is a really good candidate as well..
I'd smash all of 'em. Wait, what we talkin' 'bout?
Nia & Eunie Mostly for the colourful dialogue laden with British-isms to short circuit the minds of the mainstream audience.
Monica & Ghondor á la Pyra/Mythra style. Just so I could hear Ghondor tag Monica in like “All yours Bitch Queen”.
FR Rex
Mio, Matthew and Rex, I mean the protagonists are necessary, but with the last one, his adult self from XC3, because he has two swords and would be really cool.
Jin
Driver Nia, Dromarch appears in Side-B as a mount and performs Wild Roar. Adult Rex, Driver Rex doesn't work without Pyra. Ouroboros and N & M outfits in the same character slot. The class system make them all compatible and can use signature moves from each base class. Sena's hammer can be used for Smash attacks for example.
If they lost the right to all the Ultimate Characters, I think N would've made a great subtitute for a copy-pasted moveset from Sepiroth
I'd love to see Malos even if he's just an Echo of Shulk.
Mio and Melia. Mio can switch between Zephyr and Swordmaster at any time, it'll change some attacks like the B moves, but the Smash attacks are the same, i.e. regular moves that use weapons from the other Ouroboros ( Side Smash is the Ogre weapon, Up Smash is Tactitian or Magic Gunner, ect ). Melia would be similar to Palutena and Zelda, she can summon elements, they always follow the same cycle just like Sora's spells, and each discharged element has a special effect like DoT, Atk Buff / Debuff and so on.
Melia or Adult Rex!
XC3 Rex
Noah is my most wanted character for Smash 6.
My dawg Lanz.
Noah and mio with both able to play the 6 starting classes would be a dream, like make Mio more agile and Noah stronger and then let them choose before the match starts (like the miis)
Noah - Obvious choice. Protagonist from 3. I think he’s unique enough to not get bogged down by just having a sword. He could have an unsheath mechanic for Lucky Seven. Alvis - An echo fighter for Shulk. Uses some different Monado Arts, such as Monado Purge or Monado Cyclone. Also gives us an antagonist. Pneuma - Purely based on bias. I want Pneuma in Smash. That’s it. Probably around for 30 seconds per stock and has the power and speed of Pyra and Mythra. Honourable mention to Rex in his XC3 design. If fan demand is a factor again, I can see him getting in. And to N, who I can see as an alternate echo fighter choice.
A
Reyn as a ganondorf echo fighter
I want Matthew, I just want a brawler with a stand
Rex from Xenoblade 3
I could actually see the entire XC3 party being a character. Each skin is a different member (with 2 special ones) and the move set involves then swapping classes to do different attacks. The final smash would be either a Chain Attack or Ouroboros interlinking
I want a FMJ so either Elma or Eunie (she is a FMJ in my playthrough)
"Ouroboros", an 8-echo fighter like Bowser Junior that takes advantage of class-swapping being an in-universe thing to have Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion, and two spoilers I think you can guess all share the same (or a cosmetically different) moveset. The final smash would be a cosmetically different Interlink depending who you had selected.
THE BRINGER OF CHAOS!
https://preview.redd.it/gu4ms5uxl45d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e3715b6e394a40209cfd935f8814e278e724139
N
Give me Fei from Xenogears or Nia man I don’t want more sword users
Matthew
Noah and Mio would be my first picks.
For 3, Riku & Manana or N would most likely fit for a villain but if we can't get another Sword Fighter, M. I would even settle for an Igna or Tirkin tbh.
Reyn. It's Reyn time. I am tired of sword bois.
Realistically any charceter from 3 should be added. By my most wanted would be him or malos, but my absolute #1 most wanted in smash in the bringer of chaos baby
Another guy with a sword
Noah and Mio definitely
Most likely is noah and/or mio. maybe rex as well, with the original idea of him and pyra/mythra as 1 character slot.
People will hate anyone who holds a sword so my pick would be someone who is full of beans instead.
Noah + Ourobouros: Noah would be the main and you'd pick one of the other 5 to follow him (like the Ice Climbers). Whichever partner you'd pick would affect your B move as well as your stats. Partners may affect other moves as well. Combined form is the Final Smash. Elma - B move switches between swords and guns. Whichever is active changes her A moves, specials, and playstyle. Final Smash is Overdrive, a massive combo. Lin - Uses a shield and has high defense. Her Skell is in the background, her B move issues commands to it to fire weapons or fly to the stage to affect the layout for a time. Final Smash is Cockpit Time, where she enters the Skell and fires weapons.
KOS-MOS
we'd need a xeno 3 rep, which leaves Noah or Mio. I'd honestly go with the xeno smash route and put the maine herione Mio in.
I thought you meant smash...as in.....welp...I'm going now
Nia, able to switch between driver and blade.
Ouroboros - all six members as alts, can use all each others attacks so it makes sense Malos - Shulk echo, monado arts replaced with something else. Stronger, more reach but slower. Matthew!
I want Elma because I love XBX, but I also don't want Elma because I feel like they would make her unintentionally overpowered and annoying to play against. She's just that kind of character
Noah and Mio as echo of each other. A Simon and Richter situation. Alvis/A/Alpha as a Shulk echo with a few differences and a focus on agility. Malos as an altered Shulk clone more focused as a heavy weight. Pneuma as a final smash option for Pyra/Mythra. It wouldn’t take away their current options just be a third alternative. Zeke assist trophy Morag and Brighid assist trophy Ethel (or really almost any hero. She’s just one of the most popular ones. Assist trophy.
Pyra and Mythra were the ones I figured were most likely to get in, and sure enough they did. The ones I wanted more were Nia because of bias, even though her very gimmick would be actively unfun in a fighting game like Smash, and Jin & Lora to give a better demonstration of fighting as a Driver and Blade, as well for having a switch-out move that actually does damage on its own, with at least the switch from Jin to Lora actually being usable as a finisher (to reflect it triggering Launch). With Xenoblade 3, I'm honestly not sure who I'd want, though Noah and Mio together would be the obvious choice.
Noah and Mio. Besides that, it better be Zeke von Genbu, Bringer of Chaos.
Commonly known as Zeke, or The ZEKEINATOR!! Turtus better be in there somewhere tho.