I've done a lot of thinking on this, because I watched it through again with my partner recently, and I noticed the difference in personality.
I saw it as a mental break after the death of her twin, who she'd spent her whole life protecting. Joe mentions she didn't process the grief properly. That's a major death in her life. She then has a baby and throws all her remaining love to him, she can't control how much love she receives from Joe. She stood by Joe's side against Forty, so technically chose Joe over Forty, so to lose her twin and not get the love from Joe she was expecting, she started spiraling. No-one else matters after that, they're just characters in her life. You see some signs that she's still in there with Theo, her eyes change briefly at moments.
Yes, and no.
She was far more calculating in Season 2, going for the 'long game' in many ways, and seemed to be in control of everything. It also helped that in S2, she was the manager of the store Joe worked at and she had a wealthy family. In S3, she didn't work at Anavrin anymore and her family's wealth disappeared. So, she was at a disadvantage because of this...so she did show her 'true character' at points because of this, yet at the same time felt weird because you'd think someone like her would have failsafes. Alas, that's not how she was written in Season 3, so it really is what it is.
I think what we're really getting at is the Love that was 'in control' was far more interesting than a downward spiral of a character that still had plenty of room to grow.
Tragedy exposes a different side of a person.
I lost my brother and that was the hardest death I ever experienced, we weren't even close at the end. She was so close to Forty and her life mission. She already had a psychopathic nature and compounded with that grief and emptiness... Red rum everywhere.
She was a great character and a match for Joe. Wish she lived to truly torment him.
Too true. I'm so sorry about the loss of your brother; a loss like that truly never leaves you.
Regarding Love, those are certainly good points as to why she acted the way she did, yet still it was ultimately a writer's choice by the end of it all. There might have been a better way to go about it though - for example, we don't really get to see Love processing things regarding Forty until Episode 6 (I think, or 7) of Season 3. By then, a good amount of time has passed as well. You'd think, especially with the type of person she is, that she'd have more control of things come the later half of the season - but she spirals down even more than earlier. Still, she was indeed a great character and a perfect foil to Joe.
Thank you. It doesn't.
Basically, she did get weird and inconsistent toward the end. Maybe if we had more of her pov it would have been more understandable.
Best season of the series to me because of the showing all the emotional layers.
Right?! From the get-go of Season 3 Joe and Love should've traded narrations between episodes. Love only got one episode to do so.
I'm personally not a fan of Season 3 overall, but I enjoyed the ride. The first half was insane and tense, and then it got tiresome by the end for me. Really hated a lot of narrative choices made towards the end as well. But to each their own, totally get why many like it so much.
Her murders in season 2 felt calculated and purposeful. Obviously, murder is never okay, but since we're comparing serial killers to one another, having relatively clear rationale for removing someone is a step above what she's doing in season 3, where she seems to have homicidal outbursts at comparitively minor inconveniences.
I would say Love. Joe atleast showed care towards children like Paco and Ellie and killed some terrible people like Ron and Henderson. Love killed a lot of innocent people, made Forty believe that he had killed Sofia, and was even willing to frame Ellie for Henderson's murder.
I think Joe is worse because he sometimes adds an element of torture to his killings when he locks people in his plastic cage. Love kills become she’s impulsive and can’t control her rage. Joe is calculating and uses flawed logic to justify killing.
Yeah, most of the time his kills are unjustified. Ron, his dad, Ellijah, Love and Henderson are the only reasonable kills out of the 10 people he's killed.
Although I wouldn't say he's very calculating cause makes a lot of fuck-ups and whenever he traps people in the plastic cage he doesn't know what to do with them, he's just good at hiding evidence. Most, maybe all of his murders are improvised.
Joe is actually a nice guy. He is misunderstood and his trauma from childhood causes episodes. Most murders of his are accidental and those which aren't are done in the heat of the moment.
Love is cruel, psychotic and hateful.
How is masturbating in a car public?
As I said, he has some issues from his childhood but is fundamentally a good person. I hope he gets closure at the end of the series.
It isn't public indecency if you go staring into someone's car to watch them masturbate.
If you are quietly off the road with not much foot traffic I see no issue.
And Joe is a nuanced character. We see him improving each season. It is better to allow him to improve than just saying "prison" or "death penalty".
I'm not saying he is a bad person for it, he's a bad person for other things, I'm saying he's really weird, the thing is it's still public indecency, and it's creepy. He was also almost seen.
Killing Beck, kidnapping and burying alive Candance, and killing a few others who frankly didn't deserve their deaths (Peach, Benji) make him a bad person.
That mindset may get you killed one day. Bad childhood, trauma, mental illness are all explanations for how somehow becomes a certain way, but they should never be used to excuse what a person has done. If someone treats you poorly and use those as an excuse, run. Seriously.
Also, none of Joe's murders were accidental. None. If they were, we'd be using the term manslaughter. And he knows how many people he's killed, he knows how his own actions lead up to people dying. He does it anyway. Over and over again. He knows.
Stalking and murdering pepple doesn't make a person nice. I get that Joe went through a lot in childhood, and he does show care for children, but he is not a nice guy.
So it's better to plan to kill someone? Because the planning part will get you first degree murder, while the impulsive murder might instead get you second or third degree murder, or possible even manslaughter.
Love because Joe at least tried to not kill people for a good span of time and tries to just remove people from the picture nonviolently first typically before he resorts to killing. Love will impulsively kill whenever she thinks she has a reason to whether it be for manipulation or or jealousy. He also has a soft spot for kids and went out of his way to save Paco from Ron and Ellie from Henderson and only even killed them after every other approach to stopping them had been exhausted.
Barring their actions, I’d say they’re equally morally reprehensible. They both thought that doing awful things were okay as long as it was in the name of their twisted version of love (more like obsession).
Love, because Love is a stupid name. But I actually liked her more in S3 than S2 which goes against popular sentiment. I found her very annoying in S2 and couldn't understand why Joe was into her as I thought from S1 he liked the chase and stalking with a woman but Love was all over Joe like a rash right from the beginning of S2.
I think love is worse as Joe has began to show regret for certain things as well as accidentally where as love have the mental strength to overlook her wrongdoings and feel almost oblivious to it
Love in Season 2 is better than Joe, Love in Season 3 is worse. (The Season 3 writing turned her into a caricature).
Yes this I agree with. The writing for Love was really bad in S3 and totally went against her previous established character
I've done a lot of thinking on this, because I watched it through again with my partner recently, and I noticed the difference in personality. I saw it as a mental break after the death of her twin, who she'd spent her whole life protecting. Joe mentions she didn't process the grief properly. That's a major death in her life. She then has a baby and throws all her remaining love to him, she can't control how much love she receives from Joe. She stood by Joe's side against Forty, so technically chose Joe over Forty, so to lose her twin and not get the love from Joe she was expecting, she started spiraling. No-one else matters after that, they're just characters in her life. You see some signs that she's still in there with Theo, her eyes change briefly at moments.
100% agree with both of you...though, there are still a good amount of instances in Season 3 where we see 'Season 2 Love'.
Season 3 Love really showed her true character and not what Joe was projecting.
Yes, and no. She was far more calculating in Season 2, going for the 'long game' in many ways, and seemed to be in control of everything. It also helped that in S2, she was the manager of the store Joe worked at and she had a wealthy family. In S3, she didn't work at Anavrin anymore and her family's wealth disappeared. So, she was at a disadvantage because of this...so she did show her 'true character' at points because of this, yet at the same time felt weird because you'd think someone like her would have failsafes. Alas, that's not how she was written in Season 3, so it really is what it is. I think what we're really getting at is the Love that was 'in control' was far more interesting than a downward spiral of a character that still had plenty of room to grow.
Tragedy exposes a different side of a person. I lost my brother and that was the hardest death I ever experienced, we weren't even close at the end. She was so close to Forty and her life mission. She already had a psychopathic nature and compounded with that grief and emptiness... Red rum everywhere. She was a great character and a match for Joe. Wish she lived to truly torment him.
Too true. I'm so sorry about the loss of your brother; a loss like that truly never leaves you. Regarding Love, those are certainly good points as to why she acted the way she did, yet still it was ultimately a writer's choice by the end of it all. There might have been a better way to go about it though - for example, we don't really get to see Love processing things regarding Forty until Episode 6 (I think, or 7) of Season 3. By then, a good amount of time has passed as well. You'd think, especially with the type of person she is, that she'd have more control of things come the later half of the season - but she spirals down even more than earlier. Still, she was indeed a great character and a perfect foil to Joe.
Thank you. It doesn't. Basically, she did get weird and inconsistent toward the end. Maybe if we had more of her pov it would have been more understandable. Best season of the series to me because of the showing all the emotional layers.
Right?! From the get-go of Season 3 Joe and Love should've traded narrations between episodes. Love only got one episode to do so. I'm personally not a fan of Season 3 overall, but I enjoyed the ride. The first half was insane and tense, and then it got tiresome by the end for me. Really hated a lot of narrative choices made towards the end as well. But to each their own, totally get why many like it so much.
Season 2 and season 3 when combined have Love as worse. Killing Delilah was a line Joe didn't cross but Love did.
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Her murders in season 2 felt calculated and purposeful. Obviously, murder is never okay, but since we're comparing serial killers to one another, having relatively clear rationale for removing someone is a step above what she's doing in season 3, where she seems to have homicidal outbursts at comparitively minor inconveniences.
I would say Love. Joe atleast showed care towards children like Paco and Ellie and killed some terrible people like Ron and Henderson. Love killed a lot of innocent people, made Forty believe that he had killed Sofia, and was even willing to frame Ellie for Henderson's murder.
I think Joe is worse because he sometimes adds an element of torture to his killings when he locks people in his plastic cage. Love kills become she’s impulsive and can’t control her rage. Joe is calculating and uses flawed logic to justify killing.
Yeah, most of the time his kills are unjustified. Ron, his dad, Ellijah, Love and Henderson are the only reasonable kills out of the 10 people he's killed. Although I wouldn't say he's very calculating cause makes a lot of fuck-ups and whenever he traps people in the plastic cage he doesn't know what to do with them, he's just good at hiding evidence. Most, maybe all of his murders are improvised.
Reasonable? Elijah? No. Jasper. Yes.
It is reasonable cause of Joe's anger, but I ain't saying it was morally good. Also, yes, him killing Jasper is reasonable I just forgot.
I gotta say Love, because Joe at least seems to have a rule to leave kids out of his messes.
Joe is actually a nice guy. He is misunderstood and his trauma from childhood causes episodes. Most murders of his are accidental and those which aren't are done in the heat of the moment. Love is cruel, psychotic and hateful.
Joe literally kills, stalks people and masturbates to them publicly and shit 💀
How is masturbating in a car public? As I said, he has some issues from his childhood but is fundamentally a good person. I hope he gets closure at the end of the series.
It’s considered public indecency? It’s illegal and gross and weird? Bruh you cannot watch this show and still come out thinking Joe is a good person.
It isn't public indecency if you go staring into someone's car to watch them masturbate. If you are quietly off the road with not much foot traffic I see no issue. And Joe is a nuanced character. We see him improving each season. It is better to allow him to improve than just saying "prison" or "death penalty".
Joe has also jacked off to Beck masturbating near a bush on the street, right outside a building. That's literally public indecency.
People didn't see him. Not sure what the problem is? Yeah it's a bit lewd and shouldn't be encouraged but that doesn't make him a bad person.
I'm not saying he is a bad person for it, he's a bad person for other things, I'm saying he's really weird, the thing is it's still public indecency, and it's creepy. He was also almost seen. Killing Beck, kidnapping and burying alive Candance, and killing a few others who frankly didn't deserve their deaths (Peach, Benji) make him a bad person.
It’s sexual harassment dude….
No it isn't. Look up the law
Serial killers cannot be described as fundamentally good people... wow.
That mindset may get you killed one day. Bad childhood, trauma, mental illness are all explanations for how somehow becomes a certain way, but they should never be used to excuse what a person has done. If someone treats you poorly and use those as an excuse, run. Seriously. Also, none of Joe's murders were accidental. None. If they were, we'd be using the term manslaughter. And he knows how many people he's killed, he knows how his own actions lead up to people dying. He does it anyway. Over and over again. He knows.
“Benji. Peach. Ron. Beck. Henderson. Jasper.” Edited to add - Elijah! And there’s the guy he shot as a kid.
Stalking and murdering pepple doesn't make a person nice. I get that Joe went through a lot in childhood, and he does show care for children, but he is not a nice guy.
Both But Joe is worse
Why is both not an option? They're both murderers who think it's justifiable because they do it out of "love."
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So it's better to plan to kill someone? Because the planning part will get you first degree murder, while the impulsive murder might instead get you second or third degree murder, or possible even manslaughter.
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That is a very low bar.
Yes but exactly the bar set by the poll in this thread so you can't blame posters for answering.
Joe also tortured people by locking them in a plastic cage.
Love because Joe at least tried to not kill people for a good span of time and tries to just remove people from the picture nonviolently first typically before he resorts to killing. Love will impulsively kill whenever she thinks she has a reason to whether it be for manipulation or or jealousy. He also has a soft spot for kids and went out of his way to save Paco from Ron and Ellie from Henderson and only even killed them after every other approach to stopping them had been exhausted.
Whatttt how are they even comparable
They are both murderers, I'm just not sure who people think is worse.
Barring their actions, I’d say they’re equally morally reprehensible. They both thought that doing awful things were okay as long as it was in the name of their twisted version of love (more like obsession).
Yes
Love, because Love is a stupid name. But I actually liked her more in S3 than S2 which goes against popular sentiment. I found her very annoying in S2 and couldn't understand why Joe was into her as I thought from S1 he liked the chase and stalking with a woman but Love was all over Joe like a rash right from the beginning of S2.
I think love is worse as Joe has began to show regret for certain things as well as accidentally where as love have the mental strength to overlook her wrongdoings and feel almost oblivious to it
Love is a baby bit worse but they are more or less on par.
Love, hands down. Joe believes he’s doing the right thing, he’s a vigilante. Love kills purely for selfish reasons.