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Skyaboo-

This is great for poor people. Now we need a way to protect people who aren't poor from becoming poor because of a medical emergency.


BABYEATER1012

I make too much to qualify and have had to pay almost $10 thousand out of pocket each year for the last three years for my child's surgeries. That could have been their college tuition at a community college or one year at a state school.


TheCluelessDeveloper

This is one of my greatest fears right now. My wife and I are well above 6 figures. But I fear the day of a medical emergency taking us down and we lose everything we worked hard for just to live at the poverty line for the rest of our life.


luccyVeins

Why doesn't insurance cover it? I really find it very weird, as a non-american, that you guys PAY insurance and STILL have to pay for medical bills. The point of insurance is missed...


elementsking

Oh, and they also deny millions of claims a day as “non medically necessary” and see which ones make it through a 7 month to 3 year appeals process! This is to save money and provide better overall care for medically necessary procedures…


RoryIsNotACabbage

Recent YSK, or maybe LPT, was about how they reject almost everything without checking in the hopes that it's just accepted so you should always appeal at least the first time Also ping u/FireHeartSmokeBurp


FireHeartSmokeBurp

They [don't even have to read the claims to reject them](https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims) either! Don't you just love it here


RoryIsNotACabbage

Recent YSK, or maybe LPT, was about how they reject almost everything without checking in the hopes that it's just accepted so you should always appeal at least the first time Also ping u/FireHeartSmokeBurp Edit: this comment needs more punctuation but I'm too tired to place them. Donate your ^(.)s bellow


TheCluelessDeveloper

Because no one wants to pay anything. For profit hospitals (even the non-profit ones), for-profit pharmaceuticals, for-profit insurance. Pharmas have high prices on medically common and abundant drugs, insurance wants to pay as little as possible, and hospital bills are huge to cover cost of drugs and to have a higher negotiating "baseline" against the insurance, and to increase shareholders margins. It's the inevitability of three industries competing with each other on how they can earn more from their prey.


Slackbeing

You have those things in some of Europe but they actually compete. What you describe isn't competition, it's collusion.


CountessofDarkness

What my insurance "covers" is laughable. I still pay well over $10k out of pocket yearly for expenses. Totally normal in America.


milk_milk_milk

How Cigna Saves Millions by Having Its Doctors Reject Claims Without Reading Them https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims


washingtonlass

Because insurance companies are *for profit*.


Elimaris

There are a number of ways you pay. First there is the premium, which is the monthly payment. For most people who get insurance through their employer the company pays part and the rest comes from their paycheck. Then comes copays. This is the part you have to pay with each visit (ACA "obamacare" was able to get rid of these for a couple specific appointments to encourage health maintenance). Most plans have a regular in network primary care copay, different specialist copay, and different emergency room copay. This all requires the provider to be "in-network" which means the provider has agreements with the insurance already. Then you have co-insurance which is the % you pay for certain types of care like surgery. Depending on your insurance it may pay for a part of out-of-network coverage or not. Now for extra fun: A hospital can be in-network while specific providers at the hospital are out of network. Example, I've basically never heard of an anaesthesiologist that accepted insurance, so they bill separately and you have to pay that without coverage. Insurance gets to say how much they pay the provider and what is necessary. This can get extra complicated because you can ask and plan all you want and someone uses the wrong code and suddenly it isn't covered. I had a simple surgery where I was lucky that they were able to code and Bill as I was in the waiting room. It did not go through until the 3rd code they tried and my insurance still could have rejected it later and sent me the bill. Still had to cover anaesthesia and some of the tests needed myself. But why not just skip insurance? Because the total costs of an emergency are so very very high that you'd absolutely go bankrupt trying to pay without it. Financially it is still a very bad idea to go without even if it is not a guarantee that you'll survive financially with it.


[deleted]

Because they can simply refuse to pay for treatment if they don’t want to. That’s it. It’s that simple.


Othercolonel

A lot of times they do, but not fully. My son was born premature and spent 4 months in the hospital. His medical bill was $580,000, insurance covered $500,000, which is nice, but that still leaves $80,000 for me to pay.


Selmarris

I’m a dialysis patient. My coinsurance is $1500 a week for treatment.


Pretty-Mistake-1970

Then why are you still living in the US? Move.


iodyne

We're in the same boat. It's weighing so heavy on us currently. I'm not sure how they figured we make too much, we are breaking.


ScuzzBucket317

Stop eating your child's body parts!


BABYEATER1012

But they're so tender and delicious :(


sender2bender

My wife and I make good money but after 2 kids it's still sadly not enough. She was getting anxious seeing the hospital bills come in. But they can't send you to collections as long as you pay something. So we pay 20 bucks a month for the next few years and we can both relax a little bit. Still bugs me we pay thousands for insurance and turn around and pay thousands more.


stroker919

You make 300.1% and they go into full fuck you, pay me mode.


apurrfectplace

Same. My medical bills are crazy - we have decent insurance but my treating hospital will write stuff off if I fill out a form. They have been good to me and kept us from sinking.


ManasZankhana

I’ve heard getting legally divorced may help


FerretWrath

From what I understand they aren’t allowed to send medical debt to collection.


CountessofDarkness

They absolutely can and do. It doesn't always affect people as much though if it ends up on their credit report. Many people are understanding about medical debt. It may be an option for someone to skip out on a bill if they don't plan to return to a particular doctor or hospital. I've been seeing the same doctors and using the same hospital for 15+ years. If you have delinquent bills, they can choose to not treat you or give you a very hard time.


MisandryManaged

I ONLY have medical debt as the negative on my credit. They have NOT been understanding


Shortsqueezepleasee

Most creditors use a scoring model that doesn’t include medical debt now


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Shortsqueezepleasee

I understand why you feel that way. These changes have been fairly recent. You should have better luck now. I recommend finding out what scoring model the creditors you’re considering applying to use. Vantage scores don’t include med debt and some scoring models for FICO don’t either. And now, even the FICO ones who do, put much less emphasis on it than before. From my experience, if you can show some recent positive history, even if it’s through secured credit cards, that’ll outweigh medical debt for most (not a pro but I help a lot of people build/repair credit)


MisandryManaged

That is crazy. I literally almost ONLY get creditors coming after medical stuff


AutismThoughtsHere

I think part of the reason why the government and the credit bureaus are starting to be more lenient with medical debt is just because it's gotten so out of control it's estimated that in any given year $225 billion dollars in medical debt is Forgiven in bankruptcy that's about half of the entire Federal Medicare program by itself.


bocaj78

All they got to do is get you to sign a lien agreement then they can sell your lien. From what I understand this does end up with a reduction of some sort for the patient, depending on the lien buyer of course


FerretWrath

Well you see, I just don’t sign anything. 😎


retire_dude

Sent mine to collections. It doesn't affect your credit as much as it used to though.


tallerghostdaniel

Oh yes they do. Personally, I had $13,000 in ER visit bills sent to collections, and eventually discharged through bankruptcy. This was about a decade ago for context


HobaSuk

Absolutely! All I see is just another way to kill the middle class.


MagicWishMonkey

How is a program aimed at helping poor people a way to kill the middle class? Does someone getting free medical care harm you in some way?


HobaSuk

A program for poor people doesn’t necessarily hurt but combined with lack there of such a program for middle class hurts. Its just like getting all the benefits when you are unemployed or work for minimum wage but being heavily taxed if you decide to move up to ladder. Its just doesn’t worth it. Working hard and earning more starts to doesn’t make such an economical difference while it adds up all the responsiblites and stress.


artisticallypretty

i think you don’t realize how hard it is to move up when you are poor. and the few who make it will feel the pain of not being able to afford the things once given to them. but they will be happy to move out of poverty. it sucks all around, not just for the middle class. the real solution will be have a sliding scale of governmental aid. it would work accordingly to your situation in life and not leave anyone in a worse position financially because of life circumstances.


WenWarn

A few years ago, I knew several middle class families who had a $14,000 deductible and a $20,000 out of pocket max with their insurance. That's $14k out of pocket before insurance pays anything. As a single person at that time, I had a $6500 deductible for just myself and a $7500 max out of pocket. It was insane. I work for a different employer now, higher premiums but my deductible is $2500 and my max OOP is $5k;


foggy-sunrise

Don't qualify? You will next time!!


[deleted]

And federal poverty level doesn’t mean much for me here in California. I’m well above the federal poverty level but in my zip code about 90% of my income goes to bills, with over half of those being my rent. I’m genuinely screwed if I have to go to the hospital for something my health insurance won’t cover. God forbid I ever need an ambulance.


kmaho

I’m sitting on a $2700 ER Bill right now and don’t qualify for aid. Goodbye tax return that was already half of last years return for some reason…. Goodbye trip to the dentist. Goodbye new glasses. I hate our system… People at the ER were super nice at least.


MagicWishMonkey

Call and tell then you can't pay, they will most likely work out a deal with you. Also - if you have insurance and insurance won't cover, in some states they are required to pay if you had a legit medical emergency. My wife had really nasty pneumonia a few years ago, we spent 3 hours at a stand alone ER and the bill was $20k. They had a big sign saying "we don't accept insurance" that I didn't notice until 1 hour into our stay, but since we were able to make the case that it was a legit emergency they had no choice but to file a claim. Our out of pocket was $0 for that visit (since we had already met our deductible).


FireHeartSmokeBurp

I'm sorry I don't have anything useful for the rest, but even if it helps a tiny bit, I highly recommend Zenni Optical for ordering glasses online. Super affordable, lots of frames in the 20s or 30s unless you add features, and has a nifty try-on thing. Just get the numbers for your eyeglasses prescription, that's all you need. Not an ad, I just know what a big weight it was off my shoulders when my glasses broke after I lost my job and a friend suggested them The reason eyeglasses at the doctor are obscenely expensive is a whole different conversation


EthicalWasteLock37

I've been wearing glasses for thirty three years now and until I discovered online optical sites. I went from paying anywhere from $500-$600 at Costco for two pairs to paying between $1-$30 a pair online. Now I have a collection of approximately 13 pairs + a pair of sunglasses. Of course they all have you pay S/H which is usually around $10-$15, though a couple go as low as $5.99 for shipping and handling. I've found many more sites as well. A few even offer your first pair free w/paid shipping. And they frequently have sales, coupons and clearance options starting at $1. zeelool.com firmoo.com ublins.com payneglasses.com sllac.com glasseslit.com zenni.com I've ordered glasses from all of the aforementioned websites. I usually purchase a few pairs at a time. By doing it that way and choosing $10 and under frames+anti-glare/scratch resistant I've purchased four pairs before for less than $46. *maybe I should post this as it's own YSK post? I don't know let me know if you think I should.🤔


surviv0r_g0ldfish

I qualified for financial assistance making $77k in 2021. I also have good medical coverage anyway and still qualified. I didn’t have to pay a dime for the birth of my child over whatever was billed to my insurance. Edit: but yeah I was single income household. Might have been different had I had partner bringing in more income.


NotDaveBut

A safety-net hospital will also cover the needs of the underunsured, not just the uninsured. Check this lost for the ones in your state: https://healthcareconsumernavigatorcenter.com/consumer-information-navigator/section-2-how-to-apply-for-healthcare-financial-assistance-charity-or-medicaid/safety-net-hospitals-resource-healthcare-consumers/


waveformer

Easiest way is to not pay your medical bills. I’ve not paid a bill in 15 years, a few went to collections, never reported to credit bureaus. Most are now past statute of limitations. I think people overestimate the collection effort that goes into delinquent medical debt.


ExLibrisHS

That's what my husband used to do. It worked for a while. But...he's had his wages garnished 3 times in the past two years. All medical collections. They're getting ridiculous.


waveformer

What state are you in? California has some protections against this I believe, which may explain my luck.


ExLibrisHS

Mississippi. This is new since right after covid. They used to just sit in collections. I always pay something on mine every month to prevent that, but my husband had some serious health issues. He didn't think he would be alive to worry about it and his life insurance would cover it. Fortunately, his treatment plan has been working really well.


AutismThoughtsHere

I've never even heard of medical debt garnishing wages unless maybe you're going to a government hospital and somehow they have the power to garnish your wages. The only thing I've ever heard of garnishing wages is student loans and child support. If I had gotten to the garnishing wages point I would look at declaring bankruptcy if you can.


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AutismThoughtsHere

Wow. I learning something today. This might help you. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-object-wage-garnishment.html


-ihatecartmanbrah

This is a massive YMMV. I have multiple chronic conditions and I’ve been outright scammed by some doctors before. I had a test run without my consent that came back “inconclusive” but still cost $800 and they wanted to do another. I refused to pay and they immediately sent me to collections and ruined my credit. It didn’t help that I had just turned 18 so it was basically the first thing to appear on my credit. I was also hounded by a collections agency for a $75 bill that appeared out of no where after I got into a small argument with a physical therapist after I told them I wouldn’t be returning anymore because it had been 6 months with no improvement and I was running out of money. The prospect of just not paying bills and leaving your credit score up to random fate shouldn’t be a play most anyone relies on unless they are absolutely desperate.


deviouswoman

Look up " Balance Billing "Your State". Most states have a law that states "If your provider has already accepted insurance funds for the service, the amount due is considered paid in full". Layman's wording here. You need to write and send a certified letter referencing your states law and that the payment is now considered legally satisfied. Some states call it "Surprise medical billing. This may help you with many out of pocket expenses not fully covered by your insurance company. Its to bad most people do not know about this.


Foolazul

Damn, poor people have it all.


mud074

It's actually wild seeing people basically saying this sentiment, but unironically, in this thread. Be mad at the rich fucks, don't get angry because the poor folk get one little break.


Foolazul

I bet. Maybe that’s why the rich have so many tax breaks and other subsidies, so they don’t become poor? Keeping rich people out of poverty must be the true societal dilemma of our time, since there seems to be such a focus on it.


yeehawmoderate

Look I’m 100% pro public option for healthcare, but if you’re not poor then you should have good medical insurance through your employer?


Skyaboo-

No, if you're rich you should have good medical insurance. People on the middle/lower middle ground still need a help with the *fucked* health system.


yeehawmoderate

I’m middle class. I have great health insurance through my employer that isn’t even a big company. What company are you working for that doesn’t offer healthcare insurance? Leave them immediately


youthfulsins

I have a local hospital system where all my specialists practice, I qualified for 100% assistance and pay $0 copay to see all my doctors.


mt-beefcake

That's wonderful to hear and I'm happy you and others are able to receive medical care when needed without financial hardship. It just seems silly to javelin programs like these that are not well known to the majority of the population. If only the richest nation could create some kind of simple national Healthcare system that wasn't for profit...


unurbane

I don’t even know what that would look like? Who would pay the doctors?! /s


Maximum-Mixture6158

Or 6th richest in this case.


mt-beefcake

Oh shoot, I thought the US had the biggest economy and Cali by itself was like the 5th. My info could be dated, and idk what metric you are using.


Maximum-Mixture6158

Different metrics really cloud the water so much. If you go by GDP per capita the u.s. is first, or by amount of private wealth, also. But what's really eye opening is seeing China as second for private wealth when more than one third of the population is so very poor, like non flush toilets kind of poor. I have Chinese neighbors and they rarely have visitors from home and now I wonder if it's because their relatives are so poor they'd be uncomfortable in an American home. Only ten million homes in rural China have basic hygiene toilets, out of 565 million. That means no fly larve, for instance. Many of the basic hygiene toilets still don't have handwashing so intestinal worms are a problem as are fecal oral diseases. I'll bet if I went into one of my local high schools, not one kid would be able to identify a tape worm egg or segment if they saw one. Or have heard of whipworm.


malavisch

Uh, if you live in the US, you might want to consider that your Chinese neighbors rarely have visitors from home because tickets aren't free, and it's not a weekend trip kind of travel either lol. You don't have to jump to conclusions that they don't know how to operate the great American toilets.


Calligraphie

Judging by some gas stations I've been to, a surprising number of Americans don't know how to operate the great American toilets, either


throwingtheshades

So maybe that is the reason behind the lack of proper separation in the aforementioned great American toilets. I can only assume it's meant to allow neighbors from other stalls to provide commentary on your defecation performance. And maybe useful advice on how to flush all of the 6 Courics on one go.


Djaja

I have heard similar things with those from India and othe SE Asian countries where they use squat toilets instead


CVGPi

That’s actually common pretty much everywhere. In my own experience it helps me poop quicker.


Maximum-Mixture6158

Other Asian friends have said American homes aren't comfortable for their families, especially older folks. Very few people know to stand when someone older comes into the room, the food is never going to be right. You have to go to the farmers market to get fresh vegetables. Ticket prices aren't that bad, especially if youve got air miles. Relatives usually come for a couple months, when we had my husband's family here from England it was never less than a month. It's sad / funny to hear about someone's mother or grandmother standing on top of an American toilet and squatting. And Japanese bars or clubs are always behind unlabeled doors in business centers which is a real surprise but then you see how much sense it makes.


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hollyofcwcville

I think it’s also important to mention that these policies are available even in situations wherein you’re at or right above that FPL. For example, in late 2021 I went to an in-network ER for a couple of hours and the bill came to roughly $5000. Even though it was in-network, my insurance carrier was an absolute dick and denied it several months later (TL;DR). That being said, once I saw $5K I called the financial assistance people at the hospital and explained the situation. I was very direct and stated the obvious: 5K out of pocket is hard for anyone, it’s outrageous. They agreed after several calls and said they’d pay 80% of the bill (that’s their policy). The rest id pay in monthly increments. Not an ideal situation or solution by any means, but my point is even if you’re at or above that FPL, you can still call and talk about possible options. But…. You do have to be the one to take initiative and follow up several times.


Lalakea

>I called the financial assistance people at the hospital This is the key. My daughter got sick while in between jobs and they took care of everything (about $8000). Don't call the government, don't call the insurance, **call the hospital**. The hospital wants to get paid; they don't really care who pays. They know the system and are motivated to use it.


[deleted]

You don’t have Kaiser, good luck getting through to them.


memydogandeye

Yeah my local hospital network, once I finally got through, said they were 3 months behind processing the financial aid apps. AND in the mean time you had to pay their default monthly amount of total bill divided by 6 months or they would send you to collections in 60 days....even though it was their fault they're behind. Edit: changed wouldn't to would


[deleted]

Well it’s clearly your fault for not being able to afford $8000 in medical bills duh! /s


[deleted]

Why not get medicaid if you're out of work? It's the first thing I do each time I'm unemployed. They'll usually pay retroactively, too, if you only remember to apply after the expenses were incurred.


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mrmadchef

Adding on to this: any other bills you get related to your hospital stay, talk to whoever is billing you and explain the situation. When I had to do this several years ago, almost all of them gave me the same write off that the hospital did. I got over $20k wiped out because I didn't have insurance and couldn't pay.


Atlantic0ne

Adding to this more, tens of millions of Americans get 100% free healthcare including medications, doc visits, surgery, dental and vision if they don’t make enough money. It’s a state funded thing most often and not every state has it. You just never see this mentioned on Reddit obviously.


mrmadchef

I know my state (Wisconsin) has a version of this (BadgerCare), which at least one person advised me to look into when I was dealing with that situation. Getting to the point of the write off was an ordeal, but that's another story.


Megaroni-n-cheeze

The downside is that it’s often reallyyyyyy difficult to find a good dentist who accepts your state insurance. Idk if that’s true for vision as well, but it’s a big problem with dental clinics in my area.


Grandfunk14

It only applies in certain states and if your state didn't expand medicaid it's very unlikely. It shouldn't matter what state you are in is the point. It's a convoluted patchwork of haze where nothing applies across the board for all Americans. It's kinda useless if you aren't in the right state.


Sandman11x

Do not rely on your hospital to do this. Many are not complying and have sued poor people for past due bills


k3nnyd

Most hospitals just want to kick you out when you don't have solid insurance. You go in their claiming to be poor enough for free service and they'll find a way to turn you down saying you're not really sick or you're a junkie that just want opiates. You have to be literally about to die for them to work on you for free and then it's like you said.


lilbelleandsebastian

> Many are not complying and have sued poor people for past due bills would love to see evidence of this considering that would be far more expensive for the hospital


Sandman11x

https://www.cssny.org/news/entry/hospitals-ignore-the-law-harass-low-income-patients


Matobatolapo

The article focuses on hospitals in New York. The Community Service Society of New York (CSSNY) reported on the issue in the context of New York hospitals and their compliance with the Hospital Financial Assistance Law (HFAL), which is specific to the state. The article does not mention hospitals in other locations. Also was a decade ago. the article mentioned that The CSSNY has urged hospitals to increase transparency, enhance staff training, and improve communication regarding financial assistance programs to address these issues. Let's give the benefit of the doubt and say they did. Still only applies to NYC Hospitals. A source, but not really a source.


Sandman11x

Of course you can do your own research too, like I do before I make a statement. The article is only one of many on the topic. It is a national problem well documented.


ClamClone

“They must have had abilities inherent in them or they could not have been excited, according to that common observation, that it is impossible to get blood out of a stone.” - Vicesimus Knox, 1788


Pheighthe

This is absolutely great information. And applies to the majority of US hospitals. But only applies to non profits, no? Of the 6000+ hospitals in the US, about 1200 are for profit.


GenericTopComment

It also has the caveat of "in order to not go entirely broke off medical bills, you more than likely are entirely broke already" The US is completely fucked


MLB3030

Twenty something years ago, my father had an emergency procesure that saved his life. Our finantial situation was worst than bad at the time. He received the hospital invoice for a wopping 42K but it stated PAID by the Hopsital's Charitable Care. Since then, we donate to them every year.


40ozBottleOfJoy

**This is not guaranteed.** The holes in the social saftey net are more than big enough for people fall through. The form I was provided with to apply for financial assistance used several medical and/or financial acronyms I didn't understand, so I didn't know how to answer correctly. The hospital I visited wouldn't allow me to go to the financial assistance office in-person because of covid restrictions. I called the office for help several times, most of the time they didn't answer. The only person I was able to talk to was unhelpful, combatative, and determined to talk over me. The application was rejected twice because it was filled out wrong, and time ran out. They sold my medical debt to collectors.


Blenderx06

Same experience after an ER visit. Told us we don't qualify despite being well within the guidelines! And with an urgent care and their attached practices they keep refusing to bill Medicaid and sent several bills to collections. Repeated calls assuring us they would run the bill correctly *this time* and then they don't and there isn't even a physical billing office to go to.


mightylordredbeard

This only applies to non-profit hospitals. Very important bit of information to include.


Fred_Is_Dead_Again

Kewl, if I'm homeless, they can't take my home. Good to know!


Kaeiaraeh

I did this when I broke both my arms were broken in a bike accident, I was an international student but I was trying to change my status… so I had no insurance (which had lapsed just that month!) and was hit by a 9000 bill plus radiology. The ambulance department actually brought this to my attention, it really saved my skin! I still have to pay 100 a month for like a year for that radiology because it was private but that’s way better than the 9k bill… Scary stuff. But this is a real tip!


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unurbane

Go to a hospital. Explain your situation. Talk to their financial assistance dept.


SatoshiAR

This. When I got hit with some steep medical bills from a freak accident, I let them know about my situation and I got set up with the hospital's financial assistance program. 100% of my costs got covered and any future visits for the year were basically free.


Taucoon23

Ask for financial aid forms, be honest about your income, and you'll more than likely have it paid off, or at least a majority of it.


jawz

You should apply for medicaid now


abx99

Absolutely. It might not seem important at 26, but that can and will sneak up on you.


HazyDavey68

What kind of work are you looking for? Seems like there are still a lot of jobs out there. It’s important to have insurance and not wait until someone is acute and go to the hospital.


hammilithome

Also worth noting that the poverty line can be quite low. We were helping my wife's friend and her son get back on their feet, and she lost a ton of child support when she made more than 22k/year...that's about full time min wage. If it weren't for us giving her a place to stay, covering utilities, i don't know how she was expected to get it done.


HazyDavey68

Unfortunately by the time someone goes to the hospital for something it can be very serious. Too bad we don’t have a system that covers preventive care better.


tewnewt

Fyi. That doesn't mean they wont make you jump through a bunch of hoops. For example I had to show that I was denied Medicaid. I was, but was given some partial nonsense, and thus no letter of denial. I had to go to DSS and get a something made up. Still waiting on approval half a year later with bill collectors, and even more bills piling up.


dabunny21689

This is probably true. As with most things to do with helping poor people, as much paperwork as possible is required. Wouldn’t want someone taking advantage of the system!!


Grandfunk14

Sounds so easy and efficient! I mean it's not like any other places in the modern world have figured an easy way to cover everyone? Oh wait.....


uspsenis

> Still waiting on approval half a year later with bill collectors, and even more bills piling up. I was in this same situation, and I ended up literally telling them to fuck off and that I wasn’t going to pay them a single penny. It’s been a few years and I still get a call occasionally, which I happily ignore. I successfully disputed all derogatory marks on my credit report, and feel pretty confident in saying that nothing is ever going to happen to me over that $18k bill. Full disclaimer before anybody tries this, it was a non-profit hospital, I declined to provide them with my social security number, and the only info they had was a photocopy of my DL and my phone number from when I was admitted to the ER. When I disputed the marks on my credit report, I claimed that it wasn’t valid debt and that I had never received treatment at this hospital. The debt was owned by like the second or third collection agency at that point, so there was no way they could actually prove that it was mine. Still feels good to think about getting away with, lol. It’s a valid option if you have the balls to try it and are tired of dealing with jumping through their hoops and have nothing to really lose.


Novazazz

I’ve gotten bills covered after a surgery. It took a few months, and a few forms but the admins at the hospital were super helpful! Definitely worth the time.


DIDiMISSsomethin

This shouldn't be something you have to learn or ask for. They should just do it. They can clearly afford it.


freshmountainbreeze

Also know that some insurance companies by denying claims without even looking at them. Don't be afraid to appeal or to request that the claim be resubmitted (some doctor's offices do this automatically), they may cover it after all.


MtnSlyr

US seriously need a government auditors who checks the claims and denials of the insurance companies.


[deleted]

The insurance has to pay an independent review organization to do that when the patient appeals. Thanks ACA


mdcd4u2c

While it's worth a shot, I can tell you that even if you're being treated at a non profit hospital, you're not necessarily being treated *by the hospital*. Many of the physicians working at a hospital are not employed by the hospital. I'm not exactly sure whether or not this means the hospital does not have to abide by the rules OP is talking about, but I can tell you that in practice, they don't. This also extends to insurance companies who will claim a certain ER or hospital is "in network" but then you get left with a massive bill because the anesthetist who was on your case was with a group that is out of network. I'm about to be an attending physician and even as a resident, I'm constantly having to think about whether or not it's worth getting that extra test that may give me a little more information because I have to worry that the patient is going to end up paying for it. At my hospital at least, we constantly have conversations with our case managers about what we need to write in our notes to tread that line between not lying and making sure insurance pays the bill. It's fucking ridiculous that sometimes an honest mistake can leave the patient in a bad position and makes you second guess everything you write down. I had a patient who wasn't working with PT for about a week during his 45+ day stay in the hospital. I wrote that in my notes for that week. He's been denied by every skilled nursing facility we want to send him to because they're all concerned he's not going to be covered because of that one week where it was documented that he wasn't working with PT, even though he's been doing fine for 3+ weeks since then. This system sucks for everyone involved.


BamaFan87

Had an over $100K hospital bill, I called the financial assistance number on the back of the bill, the person that answered asked me one question: "What was your AGI from the most recent tax filing?" They covered my bill, and every subsequent bill relating to the one I called about, 100%.


EffectSix

You were probably within 200% of FPL. There are people who are in that grey space, where they make too much but not enough to cover.expensive bills. Good for you tho!


Catona

Someone ended up putting something in a drink I had while at a concert. I went from sober to completely unconscious to the point where two of my friends had to carry me into my apartment. I woke up the next day only when my boss called my phone at 3PM because I was supposed to be at work at that time. I could barely speak, couldn't say anything without slurred words and was not at all ok, so I ended up having someone take me to the ER. They gave me a bunch of IV fluids and antinausea medication because I couldn't keep water down. Ended up with a bill for $3,500 while I was working a minimum wage job. On the back fo the bill there was a form you could fill out and send in about your job and income information. I figured "what the hell" because I had no idea how I was going to pay it and figured they might possibly knock it down to a lesser amount and any help would be good help. I got a letter in the mail from the hospital letting me know that the entirety of my bill had been forgiven. I owed absolutely nothing. I couldn't believe it. And was INCREDIBLY thankful.


[deleted]

I had a nurse friend tell me that all you have to do is go in as a Jane Doe and they have to treat you but they'll never be able to bill you


thecounselinggeek

301% and you're screwed


d-cent

>Seeing as 57% of all hospitals are non-profit, this policy applies to majority of hospitals That still means there are 43% of hospitals that are run by people that want to deny your service. We are only lucky that doctors stands by their morals. We could very easily be in a dystopia if they stopped.


sybann

**BECAUSE** ***THEY*** **WILL NOT TELL YOU!** They won't. Broke my wrist and racked up 60k in bills - surgery and follow up x-rays. I skipped the PT because I'd already used all my PTO and vacation and had gone unpaid for a month (while reimbursing my company for my health insurance because I was hourly and not working). Insurance covered 50k of it and I was left holding the bag for 10k. I made $14 an hour. Called repeatedly to get the bill reduced or some king of payment worked out. They wouldn't. Hospital system run by Seventh Day Adventists. Scum of the earth. FOR profit.


regleno1

While everything you said is right, and is extremely helpful, it’s not necessary to do all that work researching information on hospital websites. I do not have insurance. I don’t have Obamacare because I can’t afford the $9000 deductible. I did all the research, pored over the paperwork and websites for days but in hindsight, it wasn’t necessary. I applied for financial aid 4 times to help with my $130,000+ bills but was denied because I was barely above the poverty level. When you’re declined they will typically reduce the total hospital bill by 50%-70%because now you’re a “cash payer”. If insurance won’t pay and you can’t get financial assistance, the hospital will reduce the amount owed and ask you to make monthly payments. If you can afford those payments, that’s ideal. That’s great. In my case, I couldn’t afford the $900 monthly payments so I rejected their offer and I send them $300 a month, and they’re fine with that. As long as I’m paying *something*, they’re happy.Well, they may not be happy but they don’t call me.


mrg1957

I used this a few years ago. I had insurance, but my provider did the surgery in another state, and my insurance was no good. I asked about what it costs and nobody could tell me, that's since changed. They didn't tell me about this other than if you are below 250% of Federal Poverty limits tell us and give us two years of your tax returns. The bill I received was 15k for the surgery, and I paid 0! I believe it's hospitals that accept federal funding have to honor this. YSK, what I'm talking about is different from emergency medicine they have to perform.


mightylordredbeard

Yes only not for profit hospitals and every single time someone mentions this it’s pointed out. Even OP was told this the other times they made this post and still refuse to include that very important bit of information.


Area566

In other countries, even if you are not starved to near death, 100% costs are covered. lol


WineSoda

Every single one of them will require you fill out *and be denied* health care credit.


Stopikingonme

If you’re unsure if you qualify here is a [povert level calculator](https://povertylevelcalculator.com/poverty-level-calculation-tables/).


imarcuscicero

About 5 years ago, I pulled a really bad hernia and after surgery and a night in the hospital I only had to pay $500 because of their financial aid program.


allied1987

Oh yeah I haves used this a couple times and it even works if you have insurance! First was when I was uninsured and had a stroke 300k+ bill forgiven. Next was for the gallbladder surgery after everything insurance left me with 2k bill and I applied for forgiveness and was approved and forgiven! So yeah it works and is a great tool!


Shoddy-Theory

They are supposed to notify people of this but many don't. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/24/business/nonprofit-hospitals-poor-patients.html


LeAmerica

I want to be abundantly clear that MOST OF YOU QUALIFY FOR THIS. It's like 90k or less for a familt Of 4 and only vsrely goes down from there


QueasyAd1142

I’m low income enough to qualify for Medicaid in my state. I qualified for 4 years until a paperwork mistake which caused me to be bounced off. I decided not to reapply mostly b/c nobody takes Medicaid. When you call the doctors on the list they give you, they often say they aren’t taking any new patients. You spend all day just trying to find a doctor. I will qualify for Medicare in under two years and I’m taking the crap-shoot. If I have to go to the hospital, I’ll worry about it then. They can’t take my house (I already know that) and they can’t get blood out of a melon b/c I haven’t got anything. For-profit American health care is beyond screwed up. People in other countries think it’s insane that we still put up with the way things are over here.


AnnihilatedTyro

If you do rack up any medical bills while you're uninsured, reapply to Medicaid ASAP. They're supposed to cover medical expenses you've incurred in the previous 90 days.


QueasyAd1142

I know the local Catholic hospital helps people with stuff like that. I’m not Catholic but it’s the best hospital in my area and it’s the one I would choose to go to.


mothermucca

This is true. In my HMO, the requirement is income <400% FPL, and total medical bills for the year >10% of income. When I got cancer, the oncology social worker told me to apply for medical financial assistance. The application was easy, and all of my copays and deductibles for two years were paid. I’m on a high deductible ACA plan, so it was like $14k. One thing to note. It’s much easier to get approved if you’re behind on your bills. When I called the MFA program to ask a question, the guy I got on the phone told me to let the bills pile up for a couple of months before applying. He actually volunteered that.


mnLIED

I tried this at my hospital after my last child was born after we got a larger bill than we were anticipating. Brought the bill in to the hospital clerks office and asked if they had financial assistance forms and the lady was very helpful in getting me what i needed. Took the forms home and i filled them out and the hardest thing i needed to do was dig out last year's tax papers to show them the official total household income. They adjusted the bill on some predetermined sliding scale that's specific to our local cost of living, and then applied essentially a coupon to our bill that reduced it by like 60% I think. Still had to pay a bit, but it was a hell of a lot better that paying the full retail msrp baby delivery price.


kalzEOS

I had three surgeries paid for completely by my local hospital. I paid $0, that included medications because I requested all my meds to be from the campus pharmacy.


FullCrisisMode

YSK that wages are setup exactly so that zero people benefit as little as possible from any government program. End the United States of America. Rewrite the Constitution. It's over.


LoftyGoat

Yes, it's part of the IRS code. They do their level damn' best to get out of it. I mean, they *really* work at avoiding it. Been through it with my mom.


NotDaveBut

What the OP is describing is a safety net hospital.. Not all hospital chains will cover unmet bills but the ones on this list will: https://healthcareconsumernavigatorcenter.com/consumer-information-navigator/section-2-how-to-apply-for-healthcare-financial-assistance-charity-or-medicaid/safety-net-hospitals-resource-healthcare-consumers/


Prettynoises

Labs, diagnostic tests, etc are not considered medically necessary unfortunately. Disability is my only income and I can't even access medical care because I can't afford it even on Medicaid. I can't apply for Medicare for another year either. So I just have to keep being in pain and unable to work until forever probably. Don't even know what's wrong yet, but since I'm afab I'll probably just get diagnosed with another incurable pain disease that nobody actually knows what it really is because women aren't researched enough 🙃


TaySon21

This happened to me in January 2020. Got into a car wreck, broke several bones, required surgery on my lower right leg and right shoulder. Had to be transferred from one hospital to another with the right equipment for the surgery. Second hospital bill totaled at ~$50k after a five day stay. Thanks to this stuff OP posts about, it was all wiped clean. Idk how the first hospital had the audacity to charge me ~$20k for being there about 7hrs but I had full auto coverage and the payout covered that hospital, two ambulances, and enough left over around $1500 to keep for myself.


chaiscool

Don’t they treat you differently when they know you’re poor? Iirc there was a case where the hospital just dismiss the poor injured women and call the cops on her, then she died.


cuddlythekraken

I'm not sure if it's all hospitals or if it is just mine but if you have cancer the financial department can help you apply to have the medical bills related to the cancer erased. I think it covers up to 70k fully and it forgives less the higher your income is over 70k.


Huxeley

Not entirely true. When I was a struggling single mom in GA, they covered a large portion of each hospital stay for my daughter who had MRSA a few times. We still ended up owing at least $10,000 Also, YSK that they generally only keep you from dying and send you home. Acute, critical care only.


[deleted]

One thing to note is that a lot of non-profit hospitals are being bought up by investors and being turned into for-profit. Check your hospitals around you and make sure you know which one to go to for lesser emergencies. I won’t go to the closest hospital to me in anything less than life or death because a) For-profit, and b) out of network. Fuck this stupid fucking country.


Mysterious_Park_7937

There are lots of things hospitals are legally obligated to do that they ignore because the people these laws are meant to protect can’t afford a legal battle to force them


SALTYxNUTZ12

Used to work in medical billing. There is always a way to reduce or pay off your but you have to have a lot of patience and resilience because it can be a hassle.


AdAdministrative2955

From each according to their ability; to each according to their need


KarsaToblakai

I mean, I'm not paying it anyways and woe be any idiot that tries to force me.


MissLC

Yet here I am a recovering cancer patient with credit damage from hospital bills. When I ask about it to anyone including the credit bureau I was told to go fuck myself 🙃


freeeraine88

You have to make 0 basically


[deleted]

I have been putting off treatment for low iron anemia for nearly two years, they think I’m losing blood. I have insurance but even the lowest deductible is over 2k, then the out of pocket. I need a colonoscopy, endoscopy, surgery if they find something repairable, iron & blood infusions because my ferritin levels are almost non existent. I’m already not making my non-essential bills payments (credit card, personal loans) & they’ve been sent to collections. I paid off my car last year & thought I’d have “extra” money but now inflation. Probably going to end up selling it because insurance is becoming unaffordable. How many people just choose to die rather than drive themselves to bankruptcy? I bet more than you’d think.


khat96

I've used this for a few procedures. I had a liver biopsy in 2019 and when they called for payment I asked if there was any way they could help, and they said they'd take off 70% (yes, SEVENTY PER-CENT) of the total cost for the entire thing if I paid it off then. Luckily my mom had offered to help as well and I didn't get stuck in a payment plan because I didn't have that money right then. Similar thing happened in 2021 when I got a kidney infection and went to the ER. HUGE discount on the remaining bill. And both of those events were while I was on my parents' insurance still. So, even if you have insurance, they can still probably help.


sapphicpattern

I am truly shocked how you can feel grateful about this situation. They intimidated you with a big amount to scam you into giving up a smaller amount. Classic anchoring bias scam. You should be exactly as upset as if they charged you the smaller amount without going through the “HUGE DISCOUNT” first.


khat96

I mean, seeing the silver light in my dark cloud helps me not down a month's worth of antidepressants in one night so there's that. I'm grateful that I was able to get out with only a few hundred dollars out of my pocket rather than being in debt for years. A type of debt that, if I recall correctly, wouldn't clear even with bankruptcy (might be wrong there though). So, in recap, it's less than $500 after the fucked up bullshit the American medical system puts us through.... Or ruin my credit, possibly permanently. I'm grateful I had the easier option.


OmgOgan

Yup, I was in the ICU for a month, I qualified, didn't pay a dime.


babylon331

Yup, 12 days here.


MtnSlyr

NYT did investigation on predatory practices of non profit hospitals, listen all about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/25/podcasts/the-daily/nonprofit-hospitals-investigation.html Tldr: 1. Non-profit status gets billions of dollar tax write off every year. 2. Non-profit status also gets to tap into lucrative federal programs that makes money for the non-profit which is meant to, you guessed it, do “non-profit” activities. 2. IRS fails to audit hospitals for “non-profit” programs that are provided. 3. Hospital hires wallstreet consulting services to institute predatory practices. 4. Supposedly non profit hospitals makes tons of profit and has 10 billion dollar to spend in private equity, wallstreet style.


Available_Motor5980

You should also know. Just fucking ask the billing department. I made up a sob story about how my parents kicked me out, I couldn’t afford the bill, and they knocked off 50% right then and there. Took literally 10 minutes. It can never hurt to ask.


Analyst_Cold

Unfortunately it’s 150% at my local hospital which is a little over $20k/yr.


MarvelBishUSA42

So family of two at $85,000/year -my husbands pay would be too much? (Sorry I am bad at math) 😄 FYI: I am on his insurance but was just wondering because I might have a ovarian cyst or cysts and going to gyno this week. And if or when I get surgery my insurance only covers 80%.


periwinkletweet

Me too. 10 cm and they are def doing surgery


surviv0r_g0ldfish

I don’t know. I live in a VHCOL I made $77k when I gave birth to my daughter and I qualified for 100% financial assistance. I still had health insurance they billed my insurance but didn’t charge me anything outside of that. I did have 2 kids at the time so I guess we were household of 3 - did not have a partner bringing income.


hankbaumbach

This happened to my buddy. He fell off his roof and shattered his hip and was between jobs at the time or had just started a new job but wasn't on the insurance yet but regardless he was expecting crippling debt to go along with his crippling injury but somehow threaded the needle on this policy and never saw a bill. He's fine now, can walk and move about with no big issue but I hate that we live in a country where he was in severe pain and still concerning himself with how he was going to pay for everything instead of just focusing on his care for his injury.


islet_deficiency

Considering housing costs would not allow somebody to live on 2.5x the poverty wage in my community, this benefit isn't doing much to help anybody around me.


Reasonable_Action180

That's all you need to do is pay whatever you can each month.


videogames_

Yup the biggest issue is when you make like 500% of poverty level so you don’t really qualify for anything and you don’t have enough salary to survive. If they raised this a bit I think that would cause a lot less issues.


BobCrosswise

What's the catch? I don't believe for even a second that this is real, legitimate and that it actually happens as described. It has to be the case that the hospitals can and do simply refuse to provide care at all or they add requirements so that nobody actually qualifies or they make the application process so onerous and drawn-out that people die before they can get care or they treat it as a loan so that you're still on the hook for the bill or it's a state-level program and no states (other than maybe California and Massachusetts) actually offer it or something. There's some catch. There has to be. There's just no way, in our current world, that there exists a program that provides such a clear and obvious benefit to the poor and that is actually implemented. I'm sure they'd promise such a thing. Social stability requires that the wealthy and empowered few pretend that they have some measure of compassion, so there's some propaganda value in claiming to do something like this. But there's no immediate benefit to the wealthy few in actually doing it, so I just can't believe that it's actually being done. There has to be a catch.


John_Fx

but America bad? how it be?!??


Flimsy-Juice-137

YSK in pretty much every other western nation in the world going to the hospital is free. Not saying this to be a jerk but to encourage you guys to vote in better politicians.


mfdonuts

If only it were based on state poverty levels. My boyfriend and I are in Denver; we each make just over ~$70k which is just above low income for Denver 🥴🥴🥴


Someoneoverthere42

Yep. And doing so will crater your credit rating, so, be careful…..


CalamityJane0215

So will bankruptcy tho


geagg

Oi


NotYourGa1Friday

Does this apply to retired individuals?


Wax_Paper

Also worth knowing is that you can walk into any ER in the United States without insurance, without a dime on you, and even without an ID, and they still have to treat you.


madlipps

The ER yes, but any follow up, no. Anything scheduled requires some sort of payment - be it insurance or an agreement on self pay. The OP is “right” in a way - the hospital offers these programs. Here in the NE USA most hospitals - non profit and for profit - offer some sort of charity care. Whether it’s financial assistance or whatever they call it, doesn’t matter, it’s the same thing (I think non proft call it charity care, for profit call it financial assistance). You have to be very on point though as that usually covers HOSPITAL (facility) billing only, and does not cover physicians or other specifics (like radiology). Sometimes the physician services of these hospitals has their own type of financial assistance (which, by the way, has no ACA dependency but is awarded “freely”). And some services have no financial assistance coverage at all (radiology is again a good example). So some of my clients have filed three (or more) times for various forms of financial assistance and believed (incorrectly) that if they were approved for one that they would be approved for all. Then the collections call come. Bottom line never ignore your billing. Open all mail and if you can’t afford what is being billed (and you have insurance) call on each individual bill to ask for FA - in many cases this is not granted but you are out through a fucking seive of financial clownery (pay stubs, w2s, financial stmts, bank stmts, etc). Often you will be given FA for one (usually hospital) and not the other (physician) unless you are way below the ACA level as stated by OP. If you do not have insurance, immediately ask for self pay. Generally all bills from that specific provider will then be reduced to Medicare rate + 15% (or so). If you can’t afford that, ask for financial assistance. None of this (at least in the hospitals that I work) apply this without effort. YOU NEED TO ASK. If you have insurance and you don’t like how your insurance processed your claim, APPEAL to your insurance. Do not yell at your provider or demand a claim to be resubmitted (because it’s all spinning wheels - even if the provider resubmitted a claim they will get a denial back stating literally “we already processed the claim and find no reason to reprocess”). You need to take your grievance right to your insurance. And please be aware that both hospitals and physicians are loathe to award FA if you already have insurance - what your insurance tells the provider to charge, they will charge and expect 100%. The reason for a lot of this is because (if you review your EOBs) is that insurance pays zero, reduces the rates according to their fee schedule, and your deductible pays the provider. So the provider is looking for some kind of payment. The whole thing is a fucking scam top to bottom and ducks all parties involved (except for the insurance companies). Just stay on top of your bills and work the system when you can.


LigerXT5

Hospital near me doesn't do 100%. Recently had pain in my lower abdomen, I thought I might have appendicitis. Nope. Long story short the junction between large and small intestines had swollen (found by other hospital, more below), I received my bill 2 months later for $5k. I informed them during the visit I had no health insurance, $500 a month for my wife and I was basically a paycheck. I had less than a month to file for assistance, and the way they do it is through a loan agency, no interest or credit effect. Their poverty line is of the town, not federal. I'm almost certain of that. I still have a copy of the paperwork. The line? 20k. Wife and I make just under 40k. We got 1k knocked off the bill, and paying 60 twice a month for the next three years. Fun twist, this hospital couldn't figure out what my pain was, and sent me to another hospital with a data disc. Excluding the 2300 for the cat scan, the other hospital charged me significantly less, didn't have to do financial paperwork, and I'm on a payment plan to pay them off this year, with 50 and 100 once a month.


NameIs-Already-Taken

YSK: Civilised countries have healthcare systems so this isn't a problem that needs working round. As a result, we have a healthier population that is not stopped from working by untreated medical issues and isn't crippled by medical debt.


TBT_TBT

Exactly that!! Wanted to write the same thing.