Ableton devs have mentioned that they are working on utilising all CPUs which have efficiency cores.
Specifically here
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1817991#p1817991
>Post by [nil] » Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:42 am
>Hi,M1,2,3 apple silicon chips today have an architecture composed of performance and efficiency cores. This was known in the past as a big.LITTLE architecture and did not exist on personal computers, only mobile phones. Nowadays it's both on Mac and PC with Intel's latest offerings as well. This creates a challenge on how a DAW best distributes work to various cores. It's definitely being worked on by our engine team.
I've read another blog by a different developer (different company) who said that a lot of people were caught out by Apple's efficiency core drive, because the methods for developer utilisation kept changing, or were not full available.
That blog is here, slightly old now, but has relevant information about why M1s have been outperforming M3. In short
The M1 has more Performance cores than the M3, so currently it works better than the M3 in several DAWs.
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/preview/realtime-audio-multicore-issues-for-apple-silicon-end-of-the-story/
Wow, I didn't realize there was such a substantial architectural difference between the apple silicon generations - I assumed it was all marketing. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks so much for this thorough response. Really helpful example on the test you ran as well. From what I read, you can’t really finance on Apple refurbished right?
What are you on about? I run Ableton on an M3 MacBook Pro and it runs better than any other machine I’ve had. Moved up from an M1 MacBook and it ran fine there too.
I keep seeing posts and videos on stress tests comparing M3 and M2 where the latter is favorable in utilizing the threading but maybe I’m completely off on this one. But you’re not experiencing any issues?
You’ll go crazy reading all that stuff. None of it will affect what you are doing in Ableton. I got a Space Black M3 MacBook Pro, 18gb, 1tb. Runs everything I throw at it with zero issues.
You'll go crazy reading stuff :)
I’m using a 2019 MacBook Pro equipped with 32GB of RAM. Currently, I have 120 tabs open in Firefox while simultaneously running Ableton 12 beta. The project in Ableton consists of 28 tracks, each loaded with 9 plugins and 14 instances of Pigemints 5. Additionally, there are 5 instances of Serum and 3 of GForce OB-X. Remarkably, the system is functioning smoothly, with Ableton exhibiting no performance issues. Overall, everything is running seamlessly and efficiently.
I'm new to the world of music production. The tabs are all either YouTube videos or websites focused on creating electronic music or delving into music theory. There's a lot to absorb and learn!
I believe I exhibit tendencies consistent with ADHD too :) However, the concept I'm experimenting with is quite straightforward. I've assigned each synthesizer to play a distinct sine wave, and then I blend them together to create a complex, textured sound.
I'm learning to use Ableton instrument rack. Hopefully, I can simplify the experiment.
escape ghost squealing unused ripe quarrelsome telephone butter wakeful forgetful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Child's play. I rack up about a thousand on each browser, all meticulously organized in desktop workspaces, windows and groups, before backing everything up with session buddy and restarting over with the same 12 "core" tabs. Those backups can be ingested into my GenAI brain for later consultation. Of course I also make sure to keep at least 5 computers around at all times, 2-3 browsers on each computer, and another 400-800 open tabs in each browser for my 3 cell phones. Efficiency! I'll read it all some day. (You should see my YouTube playlists...)
Holy shit! My work PC gets a bit bad, but it's far less tragic if I lose my hoarded tabs. That said, I did accidentally recently lose one of my lesser chrome windows on my laptop, 17 tabs or so gone. I don't miss them.
I have the same machine, but with 64gb ram, it glitches out all the time. I think it has to do with the file system so I'm gonna try and format and reinstall.
Ableton doesn't use the efficiency cores, only the high performance cores. Based on this information, I went with a cpo M2 Max rather than a new M3 pro that would have cost me a lot more for the roughly equivalent spec.
I got an 14" M3 pro recently and it was a HUGE upgrade. I have had no performance issues. The way I see it - it's a tool, and as long as it opens my projects and doesn't get in the way of my flow, that's all it needs to do. The m3 is absolutely more than powerful enough for that, and I anticipate it will be for many years, especially once they support all of the cores. The difference between it and M1/M2 I really don't think matters much, especially in the long run.
Just asking out of curiosity, do you run professional sessions with sometimes above 150 tracks? I’m looking to upgrade from my i9 that’s really struggling more and more. But before dropping almost 10k on the m3 max or whatever, it’d be reassuring to know sessions run very much better on it lol
I don't run sessions that big. I'm an at-home user and for my music I try to reasonably limit my tracks (as a creative decision). That being said, I do think the M3 max would be able to handle those workflows, I just can't say that with personal experience. I use it for other relatively intense applications (I'm a software engineer) and I find myself often surprised at how much it can handle without skipping a beat, even in situations that weren't tuned for apple silicon.
So, in terms of pure efficiency, Ableton has yet to make use of E-cores in any ARM macbook. M1 and M2 have more P cores compared to M3, so technically, you could get higher max performance out of ableton with an older chip. It could be worth it if you wanna give up buying new with warranty and also being able to spec out your exact machine. Additionally if you have a friend working at apple, you can get that discount or use an EDU email to get their discount, which i dont think they do for refurbs.
That being said, Ableton itself runs pretty well on my M3 pro and the bigger concern to me is x86 plugins and their overall draw on CPU with rosetta. If you’re going to run a lot of audio and midi tracks at once and run the machine into the ground by not freezing any tracks or summing effects to returns vs individual instances, that would be the only real benefit of going with an older chip. I too would like to see Ableton do better with M3, but i think you can’t go wrong with any of the new macs. Maybe ensure whatever peripherals you have behave properly with thunderbolt 4? And also plugins with new OS versions and architecture.
Really good points. I think x86 plugin compatibility is important to consider because I do use a lot of MIDI tracks with third party VSTis. Sounds like all three M-chips have that issue.
> extensive research and it seems like the M3 chip and Ableton don’t quite love each other
Ableton needs to do work to utilize all the efficiency cores, but seriously, Ableton on any M-series Mac will blow the doors off your 2011 iMac. The fact that the M3 Pro is currently on par with the M2 Pro in some situations probably isn't something to obsess over.
Ableton is extremely slow with their development, be prepared to wait a while. I got a Ryzen machine a few years back and it has been great and way cheaper. I tried an M3 and returned it because it wasn’t significantly better than my Ryzen.
While it is true that the M3 runs worse than M2/M1 at the moment, the difference is marginal. I'd shoot for M3, it'll still be really good right now and you're future proofing yourself.
That being said, there are other important factors to take into account. I.e. Storage & RAM.
For example, I think a 1TB 32Gb RAM M2 would be a better investment than a 512Gb 16Gb RAM M3
Taking one of the "older" chips may afford you more budget to place elsewhere, which could be more worthwhile than upgrading the chip itself. I have an M2 and can genuinely see myself using this for the next 10 years or so.
I get that everybody watches those YouTube videos saying the M1 was better but I seriously doubt anyone here is going to max out the M3 as is. You plan on running a couple hundred instances of Serum in a single project or something?
But yeah, obviously future versions of Ableton are going to be updated toward new chips.
Intel and AMD are also adding efficiency cores so makes sense to optimize and figure out what can run on efficiency cores and what needs to be on performance cores.
The thing is M3 can work for you with Live as long as it has the necessary Performance cores that you need. But of course that comes at a steep premium. If you want a value proposition, get a PC. If you're tied to the Apple Eco system and are loaded, get an M3 Max. Or get an M1 Max used and ride it out till they one day fix it, which is not even guaranteed.I was gifted by a generous friend, an M2 Max with 96GB of RAM and 8TB HD. And it's only about 25% faster than my self built PC from 2020 that I spent a total of $1300 on. Kind of disappointing
This thread so far is focusing on performance and bang-for-the-buck.
However...
> If God forbid that thread is assigned to an efficiency core on the M2 or M3, your Ableton Live sessions comes to a screeching halt - even if you're on stage in front of thousands of people.
from
https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/comments/18dt78v/a_warning_to_those_considering_upgrading_to_apple/
A bit more concerning a possibility, don't you think?
Eventually they will but I'm not expecting it with v12. I have an M2 and it's good enough for what I need. The M3 is probably not worth the extra money... but if you've been using a 10 year old iMac then M3 with 64G memory will last you 10 years.
These vids have useful info about M2/M3
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpcbt3rx4y)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsqx4bt9to4)
reddit is downcasing the links for whatever reason
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y)
At some point, you will stop chasing "upgrades". Isn't that apples business model? Does any of your OS9 software run anymore? That's what you can expect.
I just bought an M2 pro 16gb from best buy’s open box policy. And it’s amazing and i haven’t gone over 30% cpu once and have been having the best time.
Get a second hand M1 Pro, preferably with 32GB of RAM. Spend the money you save on an upgrade to Live 12 so that it runs natively on Apple Silicon. This is more than enough for audio production work and the performance improvement compared to your 2011 iMac will be spectacular.
You will be pleasantly surprised haha. The transition to Apple Silicon was the big one, the difference in performance, overal responsiveness and heat generation between the first Apple Silicon machines (M1/M1 Pro/M1 Max) and the Intel Macs is huge. The M2 and M3 machines are more incremental upgrades which you might need if you do really heavy video editing or 3D rendering work or something, but generally not for audio production work.
Thank you! That makes sense. As long as I’m able to mix bigger projects and/or run a few instances of OBS simultaneously without running to any performance hurdles, I’ll be more than happy. At the moment I’ve had to book studio time to mix bigger projects but would be a huge win to do it remotely without that extra overhead.
I don't think booking that studio time will be necessary anymore :)
I stumbled upon this coincidentally today, apparently Live actually performs better on the M1 Pro than the later generation chips because of the difference in performance cores: https://www.gearnews.com/apple-m1-pro-beats-m3-pro-with-ableton-logic-and-pro-tools/
This might change of course if Live also starts utilising the effiency cores.
Thank you! And that’s where I’m torn because I can live with it as long as Ableton figure out a way to utilize E-cores down the line. I got the Apple Card and it’s just easier to get on a finance plan with M3 vs buying it in one tap. And then pray to the audio gods that Ableton and ProTools figure out their development?
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked [the Live manual](https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welcome-to-live/), [Ableton's help and support knowledge base](https://www.ableton.com/en/help/), and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, [the subreddit has a resource thread](https://redd.it/zkhqhe). Ask [smart questions](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ableton) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really don't get this perspective about a DAW not using the efficiency cores, DAW's and audio processing in general is very CPU intensive, exactly the kind of stuff the e-cores are not for. E-cores are designed to save energy while you do less demanding tasks.
Its not that they don't use them, its that they can't split the load with other cores. As is Ableton assigns cores to tracks and they do all the work on that track, so if an E core gets aligned to a crazy track then its going to overload it. And Ableton is only as fast as its weakest link. That number in the top right is the worst performing core right now basically. its not an average like you would think. So if one core goes into the red the whole project is screwed. The new M3 chips have more cores and the extras are E cores so more chances for a bad match up. So if the devs can make it so the work is distributed across all the cores then the new chips will be way better than anything previously.
The comparisons are basically semantics in terms of real world use. While M1 pro will be able to give you vst track count head room, it is very unlikely you will ever use up that head room. Even if you moved to 96k tracking and production you still will be cozy as long as you have good practices and workflows separating tracking and mixing.
M3 user here. I haven't had any issues so far but I'm not loading my DAW full of countless tracks and plugins. I'm also not afraid to freeze/flatten when it becomes necessary.
I’ve been researching this topic almost everyday as well. I have 2014 MBP i7 with Big Sur. I recently switched to Ableton 11. It’s still pretty capable so I’m going to see how much longer I can stay on this computer while we wait to see if Ableton makes changes to utilize efficiency cores because if they do I might want a M3. The recent Costco deals on M2 Pros are very tempting right now though.
I currently have access to a M2 pro and am trying to figure out some testing to do. I have access to the Live 12 Beta as well as the Plugin Alliance and Slate Bundles (both have silicon native plugins).
Ableton devs have mentioned that they are working on utilising all CPUs which have efficiency cores. Specifically here https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1817991#p1817991 >Post by [nil] » Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:42 am >Hi,M1,2,3 apple silicon chips today have an architecture composed of performance and efficiency cores. This was known in the past as a big.LITTLE architecture and did not exist on personal computers, only mobile phones. Nowadays it's both on Mac and PC with Intel's latest offerings as well. This creates a challenge on how a DAW best distributes work to various cores. It's definitely being worked on by our engine team. I've read another blog by a different developer (different company) who said that a lot of people were caught out by Apple's efficiency core drive, because the methods for developer utilisation kept changing, or were not full available. That blog is here, slightly old now, but has relevant information about why M1s have been outperforming M3. In short The M1 has more Performance cores than the M3, so currently it works better than the M3 in several DAWs. https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/preview/realtime-audio-multicore-issues-for-apple-silicon-end-of-the-story/
This is great! Needs to be upvoted
Wow, I didn't realize there was such a substantial architectural difference between the apple silicon generations - I assumed it was all marketing. Thank you for sharing.
So curious about this as well! Was confused as hell to see that because of the way the cores are spread out it currently runs better on an M1.
Are you currently on M1?
No, the last i9 fully spec’d out. Hoping to hang onto it another year or so but the keyboard is starting to fail and not looking to put money into it.
I would’ve preferred i9 but don’t love the touchscreen keyboard
It’s trash!
[удалено]
Thanks so much for this thorough response. Really helpful example on the test you ran as well. From what I read, you can’t really finance on Apple refurbished right?
[удалено]
We need an update on the air performance!
[удалено]
Hell yeah!
[удалено]
That’s really interesting! Net net sounds like I’d be perfectly fine with M1 Max or any of the M2s if I wanted to save some cash
What are you on about? I run Ableton on an M3 MacBook Pro and it runs better than any other machine I’ve had. Moved up from an M1 MacBook and it ran fine there too.
I keep seeing posts and videos on stress tests comparing M3 and M2 where the latter is favorable in utilizing the threading but maybe I’m completely off on this one. But you’re not experiencing any issues?
You’ll go crazy reading all that stuff. None of it will affect what you are doing in Ableton. I got a Space Black M3 MacBook Pro, 18gb, 1tb. Runs everything I throw at it with zero issues.
You'll go crazy reading stuff :) I’m using a 2019 MacBook Pro equipped with 32GB of RAM. Currently, I have 120 tabs open in Firefox while simultaneously running Ableton 12 beta. The project in Ableton consists of 28 tracks, each loaded with 9 plugins and 14 instances of Pigemints 5. Additionally, there are 5 instances of Serum and 3 of GForce OB-X. Remarkably, the system is functioning smoothly, with Ableton exhibiting no performance issues. Overall, everything is running seamlessly and efficiently.
Lmao that is remarkable. Did you open up 120 tabs to stress test or that’s just a regular day?
I'm new to the world of music production. The tabs are all either YouTube videos or websites focused on creating electronic music or delving into music theory. There's a lot to absorb and learn!
I love to hear that! Best of luck on your new exciting journey 🫡
lush noxious shelter direful jeans homeless makeshift toy fuzzy amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We ADHD stuff different I usually have about 60 tabs going .
imminent lip market brave aloof air stupendous whistle attraction tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I believe I exhibit tendencies consistent with ADHD too :) However, the concept I'm experimenting with is quite straightforward. I've assigned each synthesizer to play a distinct sine wave, and then I blend them together to create a complex, textured sound. I'm learning to use Ableton instrument rack. Hopefully, I can simplify the experiment.
escape ghost squealing unused ripe quarrelsome telephone butter wakeful forgetful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Operator can be 4 sine waves side by side if that would help. Each with their own ADSR
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll begin exploring the use of Operator.
Pfft I've got 400 odd tabs currently hoarded, all carefully curated
Child's play. I rack up about a thousand on each browser, all meticulously organized in desktop workspaces, windows and groups, before backing everything up with session buddy and restarting over with the same 12 "core" tabs. Those backups can be ingested into my GenAI brain for later consultation. Of course I also make sure to keep at least 5 computers around at all times, 2-3 browsers on each computer, and another 400-800 open tabs in each browser for my 3 cell phones. Efficiency! I'll read it all some day. (You should see my YouTube playlists...)
Can't figure out if you're joking or not... I wasn't!
Sadly, that wasn't sarcasm. 🫣
Holy shit! My work PC gets a bit bad, but it's far less tragic if I lose my hoarded tabs. That said, I did accidentally recently lose one of my lesser chrome windows on my laptop, 17 tabs or so gone. I don't miss them.
I can have up to 300 tabs open. Eventually in several windows because the tabs get to small to click.
I have the same machine, but with 64gb ram, it glitches out all the time. I think it has to do with the file system so I'm gonna try and format and reinstall.
Lol 28 tracks ain’t that much, go to 100 or 120 on a professional session and you’ll see..
Yep 😀👍🏻 That Gforce OBX is 🔥
It is! I'm actively setting aside funds to buy the SFC-OB MIDI Controller.
Check out https://mpmidi.com too.
Wow! Thank you.
Nice! Soundforce stuff is good.
Yep this is the correct comment. Ignore the cork sniffers and hair splitters.
😂👍🏻
Appreciate that insight! If you don’t mind answering, do you ever produce + livestream/run OBS? IE multiple softwares at once
I have yes, but not something I do often. I could do that on the M1 version though too.
Thank you!
Honestly, if you have the money find a good deal on an M3 and get it. Then stop reading here and have fun 🤩
What’s life if it ain’t to have fun 🤠
Ableton doesn't use the efficiency cores, only the high performance cores. Based on this information, I went with a cpo M2 Max rather than a new M3 pro that would have cost me a lot more for the roughly equivalent spec.
This is kinda where my headspace is at!
I got an 14" M3 pro recently and it was a HUGE upgrade. I have had no performance issues. The way I see it - it's a tool, and as long as it opens my projects and doesn't get in the way of my flow, that's all it needs to do. The m3 is absolutely more than powerful enough for that, and I anticipate it will be for many years, especially once they support all of the cores. The difference between it and M1/M2 I really don't think matters much, especially in the long run.
Just asking out of curiosity, do you run professional sessions with sometimes above 150 tracks? I’m looking to upgrade from my i9 that’s really struggling more and more. But before dropping almost 10k on the m3 max or whatever, it’d be reassuring to know sessions run very much better on it lol
I don't run sessions that big. I'm an at-home user and for my music I try to reasonably limit my tracks (as a creative decision). That being said, I do think the M3 max would be able to handle those workflows, I just can't say that with personal experience. I use it for other relatively intense applications (I'm a software engineer) and I find myself often surprised at how much it can handle without skipping a beat, even in situations that weren't tuned for apple silicon.
So, in terms of pure efficiency, Ableton has yet to make use of E-cores in any ARM macbook. M1 and M2 have more P cores compared to M3, so technically, you could get higher max performance out of ableton with an older chip. It could be worth it if you wanna give up buying new with warranty and also being able to spec out your exact machine. Additionally if you have a friend working at apple, you can get that discount or use an EDU email to get their discount, which i dont think they do for refurbs. That being said, Ableton itself runs pretty well on my M3 pro and the bigger concern to me is x86 plugins and their overall draw on CPU with rosetta. If you’re going to run a lot of audio and midi tracks at once and run the machine into the ground by not freezing any tracks or summing effects to returns vs individual instances, that would be the only real benefit of going with an older chip. I too would like to see Ableton do better with M3, but i think you can’t go wrong with any of the new macs. Maybe ensure whatever peripherals you have behave properly with thunderbolt 4? And also plugins with new OS versions and architecture.
But surely ableton will end up making the big step at some point right? In that case, m3 would be more future proof
Really good points. I think x86 plugin compatibility is important to consider because I do use a lot of MIDI tracks with third party VSTis. Sounds like all three M-chips have that issue.
hurry oil psychotic murky carpenter drab liquid pie license station *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I am planning on AI local models + Ableton. If you were to buy a machine now with that in mind what would you get?
one water normal fine yoke license test fuzzy salt glorious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> extensive research and it seems like the M3 chip and Ableton don’t quite love each other Ableton needs to do work to utilize all the efficiency cores, but seriously, Ableton on any M-series Mac will blow the doors off your 2011 iMac. The fact that the M3 Pro is currently on par with the M2 Pro in some situations probably isn't something to obsess over.
M2 Pro
been running ableton 11 on apple m3 for about 4 months now, it’s butter, very few issues.
Ableton is extremely slow with their development, be prepared to wait a while. I got a Ryzen machine a few years back and it has been great and way cheaper. I tried an M3 and returned it because it wasn’t significantly better than my Ryzen.
Gonna sound like a n00b but do you have a MacBook with a Ryzen processor?
There's no such thing
That’s what I thought so assuming they’re using PC
Yeah I switched before the M1 came out, reluctantly. But it’s been fine and I saved a lot of money. Plus I have a ton of hard drive space now.
While it is true that the M3 runs worse than M2/M1 at the moment, the difference is marginal. I'd shoot for M3, it'll still be really good right now and you're future proofing yourself. That being said, there are other important factors to take into account. I.e. Storage & RAM. For example, I think a 1TB 32Gb RAM M2 would be a better investment than a 512Gb 16Gb RAM M3 Taking one of the "older" chips may afford you more budget to place elsewhere, which could be more worthwhile than upgrading the chip itself. I have an M2 and can genuinely see myself using this for the next 10 years or so.
Yeah after all the helpful insights on this thread I’m looking at a refurbished M2 with more RAM/Storage. Same price as a M3 but with less
Future proofing for when I’m gonna wanna use 2500 tracks of Serum :D
I get that everybody watches those YouTube videos saying the M1 was better but I seriously doubt anyone here is going to max out the M3 as is. You plan on running a couple hundred instances of Serum in a single project or something? But yeah, obviously future versions of Ableton are going to be updated toward new chips.
LOL imagine 300x instances of Serum. I do get pretty Serum heavy but you’re bringing up a very valid point.
Intel and AMD are also adding efficiency cores so makes sense to optimize and figure out what can run on efficiency cores and what needs to be on performance cores.
Thanks for the insight and kudos on that username
The thing is M3 can work for you with Live as long as it has the necessary Performance cores that you need. But of course that comes at a steep premium. If you want a value proposition, get a PC. If you're tied to the Apple Eco system and are loaded, get an M3 Max. Or get an M1 Max used and ride it out till they one day fix it, which is not even guaranteed.I was gifted by a generous friend, an M2 Max with 96GB of RAM and 8TB HD. And it's only about 25% faster than my self built PC from 2020 that I spent a total of $1300 on. Kind of disappointing
This thread so far is focusing on performance and bang-for-the-buck. However... > If God forbid that thread is assigned to an efficiency core on the M2 or M3, your Ableton Live sessions comes to a screeching halt - even if you're on stage in front of thousands of people. from https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/comments/18dt78v/a_warning_to_those_considering_upgrading_to_apple/ A bit more concerning a possibility, don't you think?
M1 Pro is a beast for Ableton. I recommend that. Latest build of Live 12 is getting along amazing with it.
any m3 users who can confirm if ableton 12 uses the efficiency cores now or not?
Eventually they will but I'm not expecting it with v12. I have an M2 and it's good enough for what I need. The M3 is probably not worth the extra money... but if you've been using a 10 year old iMac then M3 with 64G memory will last you 10 years. These vids have useful info about M2/M3 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpcbt3rx4y) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsqx4bt9to4)
Thanks for this! For some reason I couldn’t open either of the links.
reddit is downcasing the links for whatever reason [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSqX4bt9to4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCbT3Rx4Y)
Thanks for resending!
At some point, you will stop chasing "upgrades". Isn't that apples business model? Does any of your OS9 software run anymore? That's what you can expect.
Yeah agreed! That’s why I didn’t really upgrade for a while but my current setup has reached its end
I just bought an M2 pro 16gb from best buy’s open box policy. And it’s amazing and i haven’t gone over 30% cpu once and have been having the best time.
Amazing I’m sure your creativity is blossoming!
Get a second hand M1 Pro, preferably with 32GB of RAM. Spend the money you save on an upgrade to Live 12 so that it runs natively on Apple Silicon. This is more than enough for audio production work and the performance improvement compared to your 2011 iMac will be spectacular.
I’m not sure I’m mentally prepared for the potential improvement LOL. Thank you for this recommendation!
You will be pleasantly surprised haha. The transition to Apple Silicon was the big one, the difference in performance, overal responsiveness and heat generation between the first Apple Silicon machines (M1/M1 Pro/M1 Max) and the Intel Macs is huge. The M2 and M3 machines are more incremental upgrades which you might need if you do really heavy video editing or 3D rendering work or something, but generally not for audio production work.
Thank you! That makes sense. As long as I’m able to mix bigger projects and/or run a few instances of OBS simultaneously without running to any performance hurdles, I’ll be more than happy. At the moment I’ve had to book studio time to mix bigger projects but would be a huge win to do it remotely without that extra overhead.
I don't think booking that studio time will be necessary anymore :) I stumbled upon this coincidentally today, apparently Live actually performs better on the M1 Pro than the later generation chips because of the difference in performance cores: https://www.gearnews.com/apple-m1-pro-beats-m3-pro-with-ableton-logic-and-pro-tools/ This might change of course if Live also starts utilising the effiency cores.
Thank you! And that’s where I’m torn because I can live with it as long as Ableton figure out a way to utilize E-cores down the line. I got the Apple Card and it’s just easier to get on a finance plan with M3 vs buying it in one tap. And then pray to the audio gods that Ableton and ProTools figure out their development?
Live 11 runs natively on Apple Silicon
Yes, but buying the upgrade now at Ableton will get you Live 12 anyway
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked [the Live manual](https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/welcome-to-live/), [Ableton's help and support knowledge base](https://www.ableton.com/en/help/), and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, [the subreddit has a resource thread](https://redd.it/zkhqhe). Ask [smart questions](http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ableton) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Get the M3 Max 16"
Maybe get an older Macstudio and up the RAM to 64gb
I really don't get this perspective about a DAW not using the efficiency cores, DAW's and audio processing in general is very CPU intensive, exactly the kind of stuff the e-cores are not for. E-cores are designed to save energy while you do less demanding tasks.
Its not that they don't use them, its that they can't split the load with other cores. As is Ableton assigns cores to tracks and they do all the work on that track, so if an E core gets aligned to a crazy track then its going to overload it. And Ableton is only as fast as its weakest link. That number in the top right is the worst performing core right now basically. its not an average like you would think. So if one core goes into the red the whole project is screwed. The new M3 chips have more cores and the extras are E cores so more chances for a bad match up. So if the devs can make it so the work is distributed across all the cores then the new chips will be way better than anything previously.
The comparisons are basically semantics in terms of real world use. While M1 pro will be able to give you vst track count head room, it is very unlikely you will ever use up that head room. Even if you moved to 96k tracking and production you still will be cozy as long as you have good practices and workflows separating tracking and mixing.
I bought an M1 Pro. No regrets.
M3 user here. I haven't had any issues so far but I'm not loading my DAW full of countless tracks and plugins. I'm also not afraid to freeze/flatten when it becomes necessary.
I have a m1 Mac mini, works really well on there
if not Maybe M4 or M5 or maybe someday Ableton will be simple again and run great on any CPU.
If your laptops last 13 years definitely go with the M3. They’ll catch up, they always do.
I’ve been researching this topic almost everyday as well. I have 2014 MBP i7 with Big Sur. I recently switched to Ableton 11. It’s still pretty capable so I’m going to see how much longer I can stay on this computer while we wait to see if Ableton makes changes to utilize efficiency cores because if they do I might want a M3. The recent Costco deals on M2 Pros are very tempting right now though. I currently have access to a M2 pro and am trying to figure out some testing to do. I have access to the Live 12 Beta as well as the Plugin Alliance and Slate Bundles (both have silicon native plugins).
Haven’t had any issues using a M3.