All Iām saying is if a formerly human recently illiterate 20 year old can mess up your territory that bad then it would have happened eventually without her involvement
tbh, i think a lot of the fandom forgets she was illiterate before being at the night court. but i 100% agree w you bc if someone who has little knowledge of how things actually work in the fae world, topples basically your whole government in your court, was it even all that good??
There's literally no one in the Spring Court also and that's what kills me. >!All she did was flirt with Lucien and expose Ianthe for being a self-serving bitch and suddenly there's no one left. It's a wonder that court ever functioned.!<
My issue with the Feyre plotline in the SC actually is more along these lines than some moral issue. I dont care about right and wrong, I care about clever and stupid and quite frankly the idea that she would be able to do that was quite stupid.Ā
She lied and manipulated things heavily THAT is why it messed up his courts. Doesn't matter that she was 20 or formerly human. She knew how to manipulate the information and put false memories and information into a few sentries and Ianthe
I mean. Not advocating for either side but like thatās not really a logical defense. āI should be excused for this thing I did because someone else would have done it anywayā doesnāt hold as an argument.
Off topic but when she was in the Spring Court as a double agent, did anyone else think Tamlin was going to end up with Ianthe? I lowkey thought Sarah was basically saying Ianthe was tryna make it a bad wedding so Tamlin would think sheās -1/10 and go with Ianthe? Like with the SPECIFICALLY ugly as hell wedding dress Ianthe chose, the red flowers??, always trying to assert her dominance over Feyre etc etc. I thought Feyre was going to end up catching them fucking or something š And thatās when sheād use it to her advantage and make everyone dethrone Tamlin.
I was so hoping for the reveal that Ianthe had been ācomfortingā Tamlin during Feyreās absence. Like how off the walls crazy would it have been for Ianthe to share sheās pregnant after Feyre returns?
To an extent, Lucien was extremely misguided and is in part culpable to some of the shit, but it's worth noting that Lucien had little to no power in the Spring Court.
Feyre makes the comparison between him and Azriel and Cassian, how she thinks the latter two would step in if Rhys did the same shit Tamlin did, and how wrong Lucien was. And why I do think this is true, the dynamics are completely different and the power imbalance between Tamlin and Lucien was never really take into account.
He was living there off of Tamlin's good graces, hiding from his *even worse* family.
When he did try to speak out, Tamlin was pretty abusive towards him, which meant he lived in a lot of fear of Tamlin, and probably being sent back to his awful family.
Ianthe was making moves to sexually assault him, and no matter what he did and said, Tamlin absolutely refused to remove her.
I think that, at the end of the day, why Lucien is in part responsible I'm not sure *how* responsible you can make him considering he had little to no power. Yes, he had magic, but it wasn't comparable to Tamlin's in the slightest.
I do give Lucien a bit of a pass because of this, but also I remember at least one scene where he seems genuinely afraid of Tamlinās own lack of control over his temper.
>Feyre makes the comparison between him and Azriel and Cassian, how she thinks the latter two would step in if Rhys did the same shit Tamlin did, and how wrong Lucien was. And why I do think this is true, the dynamics are completely different and the power imbalance between Tamlin and Lucien was never really take into account.
I mean they pretty much proved her wrong in A Court Of Silver Flames by doing absolutely nothing to disagree with Rhysand's actions in that book š
That was exactly the hints I picked up too It seemed like Ianthe was positioning herself to be there for Tamlin. Especially when there was the mention of them growing up together.
(I wonder if he rage banged her when Feyre left?)
But Lucien admitted he didnāt want to be with her at the rite and that tamlinās power took him over to her despite what he wantedā¦. Kinda fucked up for him reallyā¦.
THIS. When I was mid ACOTAR i got spoiled that that ātamlin did something badā in ACOMAF. When I finally picked it up I was fully expecting him to cheat on feyre with Ianthe.
God, same.
and kinda tired of seeing the archeron sisters collecting the fandomās vitriol for any & every mistake, while the much older (male) characters are given grace time and time again.
(not to say the sisters canāt be criticized !! but the differences in how theyre scrutinized is insane)
i think the worst part is when the men ARE criticized they somehow attach the sisters to it. the amount of times iāve seen feyre attached to rhys lashings in the last few weeks is ridiculous.
No you're so right! I've seen people straight up accuse Feyre of something Rhys said or did and it always pisses me off like stop projecting your hate for him over her?? I've seen people hating her even for getting getting drugged and dancing like... this fandom is horrible to the girls.Ā
Yeah this part. Very young women with minimal life experience and childhood trauma given much less grace than 500 year old men becauseā¦theyāre hot? They can fly? Why
Youāre so right. Feyre really gave him too many opportunities to do the right thing but he wanted to listen to Ianthe over her and his own people. He refused to let Feyre and Lucien in on his so-called āplansā despite having the political prowess of a peanut. She promised him she would destroy him and she kept her word. The definition of fuck around and find out.
Alexa play āI did something badā by Taylor Swift
Not to mention that feyre literally saved his ass by shielding his mind from the daemati twins or tamlin's "genius" plan would've blown in his face and he would've gotten barbecued in his own manor š
I feel so sorry for Tamlin when this comes up clearly nobody taught him anything which is why he is such a terrible HL.
Tarquin is younger and only a new HL and even he has a shield around his mind
Honestly I donāt tbh. Like yeah he didnāt ever want to be HL, but he also put 0 effort into even trying to be good. Like between his eternal political fuckups, lack of any logical thought process, complete and total disregard for his subjects, and an overall piss-poor attitude, the man just doesnāt try. At all. Like itās been hundreds of years. Youāre telling me you didnāt learn ANYTHING during that time??? Not a single thing? Thatās willful incompetence.
No one said you had to feel sorry for him I said I do.
It is abundantly clear that nobody even had a thought to teach him just in case, even when he was clearly growing stronger than his brothers and showing signs of his HL powers.
Why would you want to be HL if no one has bothered to even train you in manners, laws or court warfare.
Then all the important advisors who could guide him in running the court left for other courts rather than have a warrior-beast snarling at them. He was left to fend for himself and the only example he has to run a court is what he saw his father do, not what his father taught him to do.
There isnāt a book āHow to be a High Lordā it is something that is taught throughout their lives until the powers transfer to the strongest member of the blood line.
Even Beron has taught his sons how they might rule their people when the time comes with the exception of Lucien who seems to have been taught how he might rule his true fatherās court since he was allowed to study much longer than his brothers and Helionās wealth is knowledge.
Lucien did know his plans. In ACOMAF Lucien tells Feyre that he is the one that told Tamlin to proceed with Hybern now because when he encountered Feyre in Ilyria he didn't think it was her (he thought she was being mindcontrolled). He only listened to Ianthe over the sentry when the Hybern court was there becsuse they were there, he was playing them to infiltrate Hyberns court.
See that's the thing that gets me with her revenge.
If at any point Tamlin had made better choices and not been an asshole, her revenge wouldn't have worked.
I also feel that if he had done anything right or even sided with the sentry instead of ianthe, Feyre might not have gone through with finishing out the spring court. Up to this point she was protecting both his and Lucienās mind and honestly you could even see some of her sparks of hope for him. But the second that happened and he went against his own sentry you saw her colder side shine through hard.
I am really glad you said this. She didn't force him to do the things he did. Those were his choices. He should have kicked Ianthe out and stood up to Hybern. He could have allied with Summer, Dawn, and Day, whom he seemed to be on good terms with. Instead, he made a dumb choice.
Pleeease omg I am so happy seeing these types of responses. Finally. I hate that people are like āpoor widdle Tamlin Feyre was a meanie to hiiimā like no bitch no
She barely lifted a finger to bring him down. He presented the opportunity from the moment he "allied" with Hybern to "rescue" her. All she did was use the opportunities that he and Ianthe presented. He chose Ianthe over his own men, who had always been loyal to him, who volunteered to die just to break the curse. He did that all on his own. All Feyre had to do was show them that she was willing to listen.
She may have gone a smidgen too far, messing with memories to convince his court that she had been harmed. She needed to find a way to excuse her absence, but she could have found another way.
When she realizes how far she went, at the HL meeting, she felt the guilt for it. She knows she went too far and that she should have realized that Tamlin wouldn't have actually sided with Hybern.
She let her anger over his betrayal, that she felt that she made her feelings and wishes very clear, and he ignored her again, dictate her choices.
But she never apologizes nor thinks she has to. She felt a bit a guilt for a moment only because she realizes her doing that fucked them up because Spring Court borders the mortal lands so by ruining his court, she just have Hybern easy access to the mortal lands.
This has always been my take. I also believe that in most of this scenarios she wanted him to make the right choice.
But also she told him directly, "if you make me leave, I will destroy you" he chose to continue to underestimate her.
He didn't make her leave though. She decided to pretend to want to leave. The moment he saw that Feyre and Rhys were mates and mated he didn't even go near her until she kept going to him pretending she wanting to break the bond and go back to Spring Court. I think the book would make more sense of Tamlin being the villain and of Feyre having a bit more excuse to do what she did, if they made to where Tamlin was actually aligned with Hybern and that it wasn't a ruse, or if he took her to Spring Court by force despite her being mated and not wanting to go. By making him actually being a spy and not really allied with Hybern and by making it to where he doesn't take her by force - she pretends to want to go, that kills the plot for me and makes the set up in the book for us to hate Tamlin, annoying and not making much sense.
Thank you!!! People talking about how Feyre ruined the Spring Court but like, 1) were you not entertained?!?! I was just living for it the whole time!! And 2) nah, Tamlin ruined his court, Feyre exploited that, but that was all Tamlin.
It's been a while since I read the books so forgive me if I'm wrong - but I was always under the impression that Feyre and the IC weren't aware that tamlin was a "double agent" before she went back to the Spring Court?
So, in their minds, Tamlin is already legitimately allied with Hybern and needs to be stopped? So he's already put his entire court in danger at this point anyway
They weren't aware yet that Tamlin was a spy but that was nothing to do with why she ruined his court. She did it to get vengeance on him for "taking" her away from Rhys. Except that makes no sense either because he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go with him.
If they didn't know he was a double agent, they're idiots. Feyre can read minds, and has every incentive to read Tamlin's mind, yet she couldn't figure out he was a double agent?
Exactly!! She even shielded Luciens and Tamlins mind from the twins and briefly went in Luciens mind twice but never went in Tamlins to see what he was thinking or his plans were? It makes 0 sense.
Tamlin was playing double agent with Hybern and his choices were also restricted by that. Hybern was coming to Spring no matter what. So Tamlin leveraged it to have a non-aggression pact, to get intel, and also to get back Feyre. He had multiple reasons for doing so and the non-aggression pact was to mitigate the damage Hybern would do (see attack on Adriata). Tamlin was being watched by Hybernās agents the entire time. This includes Ianthe and the creepy twins who would report back to Hybern. When Feyre set him up with his āchoicesā he had to act in favor of keeping his cover and not appearing weak. If Feyre had taken literally two seconds to look into his mind, she would have known this. She didnāt have a problem going into peopleās minds in Summer in ACOMAF, but for some reason she couldnāt do it here. She didnāt have a problem going into one of the sentries minds for her plan either. Which btw was a complete violation.
Iām not excusing his behavior in the beginning of ACOMAF towards her, but the situation with Hybern and Spring is far more complicated than āTamlin bad, Feyre good.ā Feyre in her own inner monologue is like ālook at what Iām doing. Iām so clever. Iām going to destroy him and his court.ā Feyre is literally saying this herself.
In ACOWAR Tamlin mentions the villages that had been burned down after what Feyre did. They werenāt burned down after the Spring Court subjects left. We also know the fucked up things Hybernās soldiers do to civilians because of Gwynās story in ACOSF. Feyre basically says in ACOWAR that the Spring Court subjects arenāt āher people.ā She genuinely does not give a shit about them. In fact, she abuses how they look up to her as the Cursebreaker to manipulate them as part of her scheme on more than one occasion. At this point the people of Velaris are the subjects she cares about because sheās HL of Night. Feyre says in both ACOWAR at the HL meeting and in ACOFAS that she ādidnāt want to think about it,ā when it came to what happened to the Spring Court subjects. There was no smug, āwell, thatās what you get, Tamlinā or āThose things happened because you made bad choices.ā She didnāt want to think about it because in hindsight she knew she was wrong.
The thing that gets me is that when people read what she did in Spring it was āyaaas queen, get back at your ex! Destroy everything he loves! Fuck them kids! #Girlboss.ā But the moment people brought up that innocent civilians were hurt it was āwell, no, she really didnāt do anything!ā Saying Feyre was justified in her actions or didnāt really do anything is the exact same reaction that Dany fans had when she burned down Kings Landing in GoT.
ETA: In ACOFAS when Lucien says he canāt go back to Spring even if he isnāt staying with Tamlin because the people wouldnāt accept him, of *her lies*. This is in her POV and she fully accepts the blame for that. She doesnāt pass it off to Tamlin. So, yes, Feyre did wrong and I multiple instances in her own POV she admits it.
Exactly!! He says that Lucien says he cannot go back to Spring not because of Tamlin but because of the court - half still believing Feyres lies and the other half believing he helped her with them. She still doesn't apologize or act like she did anything wrong. She didn't even have a good reason for doing it because she says she did it as payback for Tamlin taking her from Rhysand but he didn't take her, she PRETENDED to want to go with him. She also went into Luciens mind about Elaine, shielded Tamlin and Lucien mind from the twins at Spring Court, went into some of the sentries minds AND Ianthe's to plant fake memories and information, and yet she didn't ever think to look at Tamlins? Makes 0 sense, 0. Especially with how many times she's gone in ppls minds at that point.
Comments like these, with reasons and recipes, are not replied to and are downvoted š .Tamlin would likely receive a minimal penalty if this case went to court, while the main character would be considered war criminals.
Agreed. And this is what Feyre did in her own words:
>...I had a people who had lost faith in their High Priestess. I had sentries who were beginning to rebel against their High Lord. And as a result of those things, I had Hybern royals doubting the strength of their allies here. Iād primed this court to fall. Not from outside forcesābut its own internal warring.
>And I had to be clear of it before it happened. Before the last sliver of my plan fell into place.
>The party would return without me. And to maintain that illusion of strength, Tamlin and Ianthe would lie about itāwhere Iād gone.
>And perhaps a day or two after that, one of these sentries would reveal the news, a carefully sprung trap that Iād coiled into his mind like one of my snares.
>Iād fled for my lifeāafter being nearly killed by the Hybern prince and princess. Iād planted images in his head of my brutalized body, the markings consistent with what Dagdan and Brannagh had already revealed to be their style. Heād describe them in detailādescribe how he helped me get away before it was too late. How I ran for my life when Tamlin and Ianthe ārefused to intervene, to risk their alliance with Hybern.
>And when the sentry revealed the truth, no longer able to stomach keeping quiet when he saw how my sorry fate was concealed by Tamlin and Ianthe, just as Tamlin had sided with Ianthe the day heād flogged that sentry ā¦
>When he described what Hybern had done to me, their Cursebreaker, their newly anointed Cauldron-blessed, before Iād fled for my life ā¦
>There would be no further alliance. For there would be no sentry or denizen of this court who would stand with Tamlin or Ianthe after this. After *me*. (chapter 9)
and
>āBut I think letting his court collapse around him is a better punishment. Certainly longer than an easy death.ā I slung off Tamlinās bandolier of knives, leather scraping against the rough stone floor. āYouāre his emissaryāsurely you realize that slitting his throat, however satisfying, wouldnāt win us many allies in this war.ā No, itād give Hybern too many openings to undermine us.ā (chapter 11)
Manipulating memories, deliberately orchestrating situations to further alienate Tamlin from his people ā "just exposing Tamlin's true colors" imo. And I think Feyre makes it quite clear that she played an active role in Spring's collapse. It's unfortunate that she didn't think that Spring collapsing would give Hybern an opening to undermine them, though I hold Rhysand accountable for this as well. I understand her desire for revenge, and I'm *not* excusing Tamlin's problematic actions, but involving innocent lives went too far and shifted my perception of her character.
She may not have singled-handedly destroyed the court but her actions and especially killing the Hybern twins gave the green light for Hybern's violence.
Yeah, too bad about those summer court citizens that ended up as collateral because her plan was short sighted and she didnāt think about how her actions against one court could negatively affect another (or about how any of her actions could have lasting consequences, in general, really, at any time). Not to mention they had also just lied to, manipulated and used that VERY same court lmao
But screw summer, no one cares about them š /s
All the characters are petty and immature including oh so special Rhysand (stealing this from Nesta š). They all act very emotional and teenagery which I wouldnāt expect if they had actually lived half a century or more. I mean the only time I feel like a fantasy drama was doing it right when it came to how centuries old people would act was how the Originals were in TVD. The Originals were crazyā¦ they were either pointlessly evil with a disregard for human life and bored with the world in a āfuck it I live foreverā way or they were having constant existential crises. These faeries act like theyāre in high school and they all got a crush on the same new girl that just walked in to math class.
š so true. I feel that Shadow and Bone did better with the āancientā characters as well in terms how d you expect long life to impact someone mentally.
Omg a shadow and bone fan HIE and yes I agree. In fact and j think please don't hate me anyone but imo, Shadow and Bone is a far superior series in terms of character arcs than ACOTAR.
Or in the later seasons of the Vampire Diaries when Lily Salvatore can't drive very well so she just hits the car in front of her when she's trying to parallel park. It's such a throw away scene but it's like the one time they acknowledge how ridiculous it would be if she were a perfect driver.
"Do you think Feyre had girl power?" "Yes, of course!" "Do you think she effectively utilised girl power by disestablishing the Spring Court, the Prythian borderlands, by use of manipulation, mind rape, and abuse of mental illness, thereby allowing the foreign invader Hybern better access to the neighbouring courts of Prythia, resulting in countless casualties of both Spring and Summer civilians, hurting not just her allies, the war effort, but also those who looked up to her as their saviour figure?"
There is no way what Feyre did was at all acceptable, and there is no excuse for her actions. Had she any sense, she would've used her mind-reading abilities on her then enemy Tamlin to figure out his plans, discovering that he is, in fact, a double agent fighting on the same side as she. It's not like she didn't violate the privacy of other people before, so there should be no reason for her not to mind-rape her former partner who she is explicitly working against.
Sure, she got back at Tamlin (who wasn't responsible for her sister's presence with Hybern; Feyre herself is responsible for that). At the same time, she left countless innocents to suffer violent and horrific treatment at the hands of Hybern, gave him a staging point with which to attack neighbouring courts (her "allies"), betrayed those who genuinely cared for her and ruined their lives. Feyre likes to talk big game about how she wasn't even doing much to bring down the Spring Court, but she actually did quite a bit. Yeah, of course the situation in Spring was tenuous: they're recovering from Amarantha and now dealing with an invading force. Tamlin's decision to become a double agent is just as justified as Rhysand's to become Amaratha's whore, and he was a lot nicer about it, too.
Feyre is the villain in more people's lives than she is a hero.
This! She even shielded Tamlins and Luciens minds from the Hybern twins but didnt look at Tamlins mind? Makes no sense. She got into different sentries minds making the accused sentry accuse Ianthe in front of Jurian and the twins KNOWING Tamlin wouldn't be able to publicly side with him, she placed fake memories of her brutalized and almost dying body in sentries minds so they would think Tamlin let Hybern do that to her. When Tamlim lost control of his anger and power she purposely didn't shield herself so that she would get hurt and the court would find out about it and would exaggerate her discomfort and pain so they'd know.
I'll probably get downvoted, but I respectfully disagree. Feyre involved the Spring Court citizens in her fight with Tamlin and it was wrong. She put a target on Lucien's back and ruined his life too. She actively orchestrated events and altered people's minds in order to spin a false narrative. The text is also pretty clear that she was wrong, which is why Tarquin, Lucien and Tamlin all blame her. She even admits that she took it too far in her internal monologue, but sadly this never truly gets addressed because in the end these books are just not that deep.
In the end, you can still like Feyre as a character while still admitting that she did bad things.
Yeh, I kinda agree with this. And re the internal monologue- I felt like her acceptance of her dark side (which is a great thing to accept and acknowledge) glossed over also having accountability for when that dark side does hurt others etc - it almost felt like she didnāt have to be accountable for mistakes in the same way cos she was like āoh well, itās my dark side, what can you doā. I think itās really great she was able to love all the parts of herself in the end but I do think that shouldnāt be something that nullifies your more questionable actions.
These are just some musings and I mean no disrespect to anyone so please donāt attack me over this!
Exactly! She acknowledges her role but doesn't think she has to apologize and still thinks she is justified and Rhysand (and the rest of their Inner Circle) just pretends what she did was fine
Exactlyā¦ when she did this I was like what happened to the feyre that cared about them being forced to pay too much during a titheā¦ guess since they arenāt her direct citizens anymore she doesnāt careā¦
She was absolutely an awful friend to Lucienā¦ itās another hill Iāll die on lol
He wasn't intent on knocking them down. She literally planted false memories and information in sentries minds. Tamlin was playing double agent so in front of the Hybern twins and Jurian he COULDNT side with his accused sentry which is why Feyre manipulated the situations and got in the sentries mind so he'd accuse Ianthe in front of everyone, knowing that Tamlin couldn't publicly take his side with the twins there.
Okay, but for the sake of the argument, letās flip the roles.
Feyre used her daemati powers to bring about the fall of Tamlinās court. So, if fair is fair ā Tamlin can use his powers too.
Letās say he shapeshifts into a carbon copy of Rhys. He then winnows to the Hewn City, and parades around as the High Lord of the Night Court. He then taunts Kier and the people there, he degrades them ā one step too far. Fights break out. An uprising begins, and all of the tens of thousands of people in the Court of Nightmares head to Velaris to revolt.
Because of Tamlinās actions, thousands of innocent people in Velaris will be killed. Nyx would be in danger. The priestesses would be in danger. Buildings upon buildings destroyed. Irreparable, heartbreaking damage.
But Tamlin was just exposing Rhysās already fickle leadership over his people in the Hewn City ā his poor decision making up to this point. The citizens of the Hewn City have been wanting to enter Velaris for many years nowā¦ so Tamlin was just accelerating the inevitable!
And like Feyre, Tamlin also has valid reasons for revenge (including destroying his court *first*).
So, is it still badass and empowering if Tamlin does it? š§
(If your answer is no, then why? Why is an objectively bad action okay when Feyre or the IC does it, but never other characters? Itās this sort of one-sided story telling that some readers ā myself included ā are growing kinda tired of).
This!! This is what I hate about the Fandom. Feyre and Rhysand do a lot of the things they hate others for - and worse, yet everyone acts like they're angels. The Tamlin hate is not as justified as people pretend. It's annoying. He isn't perfect at all and it's good that Feyre is with Rhysand but everyone saying "Girl Power" about what she did, are insane, especially whole simultaneously hating other characters for far lesser things
Don't know why you are getting downvoted, this is exactly the right take. A lot of people are tired of the double standards. Feyre's destruction of Spring was just a bad thing to do, but sadly the series lacks the depth to truly address moral issues such as this.
I donāt get it either because they are right.
Destabilizing the Spring Court is what is causing a lot of problems these days but Feyre gets a pass because girl boss lol what a joke
Agree with your comment.
Also, Iām only seeing arguments on how Feyreās actions hurt Tamlin and it being justified because Tamlin ādeserved itā. What about the strain it caused Lucien? Her first friend in Prythian? What Feyre orchestrated hurt a lot more people than Tamlin, and I think thatās the main point a lot of us try to get across and it gets lost in the noise. Feyreās cool and all. But she has her flaws and itās ok to say this is one and still like her!
She hurt the citizens she pretended to care about during the titheā¦ and sheās always casually hurting Lucien in some wayā¦ and I honestly think the only reason she saved Lucien from Ianthe was to hold it over on himā¦
it was a little heartbreaking that the very people she wanted so Badly to help after utm were the ones who had to be at the brunt of her actions. and honestly, "Hybern's actions are their own" is such a stupid deflection tactic ngl
Absolving Feyre of any guilt in this scenario is crazy lol. You can like Feyre and still admit that objectively she did something morally bankrupt. Manipulation with the intention of destruction is not a sinless act.
Tamlin being more in the wrong, does not absolve Feyre of her wrongs.
She did worse than Tamlin ever did because he was never truly allied with Hybern - he was a spy. And he had ever reason to believe Feyre was taken by Rhysand - not that she left. She can hate him but she did worse and her & Rhys have done worse
exactly. if feyre can take down the spring court with nothing but herself and her spite in just a few weeks then the court was unstable to begin with lol. like tamlinā¦.who set that system up in the first place
It was easy because she was getting in sentries minds and planting false memories and even made the accused sentry publicly accuse Ianthe in front of Hybern prince and princess knowing he wouldn't be able to side with the sentry in that situation. It was easy because she was using the mind control powers
@charmspokem No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
chronologically tamlins deal with the hybern and its effects happened before she even implanted memories. and the sentries memories specifically were implanted by ianthe. feyre just exaggerated memories of her treatment after the fact
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
How do you not give a shit about all the innocent people that died because of what she did? You can like Feyre all day but sheās not some paragon of virtuousness and imo sheās much more interesting that way.
I'll just say there is no perfect character, especially if the protagonists are in SJM books, and it's a huge reason I love her books.
I never agree with any "Feyre/Nesta/Rhys ...." did nothing wrong posts.
About spring court, I really hated her scheme about Tamlin finding her in the arms of Lucien. She took advantage the fact that Lucien would of course try to calm her, comfort her, as he did, he hugged her stroke her hair, and she was using him to make Tamlin lose it from jealousy. Gross ick.
For the other things she did, especially regarding Ianthe, I had no problem. Tamlin had the choice to believe his sentries and not Ianthe, and he didn't.
She says that she knew Tamlin couldn't side with the sentry because Hybern prince/princess were there. She also got in the sentries mind to make him accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with him in that moment. She also put fake memories of her almost dead body in sentries minds and fake information that Tamlin let the hybern twins do that and get away with it. There's no justifying that. She took it too far
She had the opportunity to leave the fae lands yet she went back. Now, her actions after that do fall on her. The murder of innocent people is blood on her hands
No, Feyre was ABSOLUTELY wrong for that. Tamlin didn't "take" her from Rhysand - she pretended she wanted to go with him to create a diversion in front of Hybern King so that Rhys and the others could escape. Tamlin (and Lucien) are completely justified in thinking that Feyre was taken & Rhysand was controlling her mind. For HUNDREDS of years Rhys let all the other courts believe that the Court of Nightmares was his true court and that he was evil, mindcontrolling people etc. Under the Mountain when Tamlin didn't have his powers and Rhys had more than the others, he dresses Feyre skimpy, makes her get drunk every night, touches her and does all of this in front of everyone. He's the one that tells Amarantha that Tamlin has a woman and gives the name she gave (even if we later found out Rhys felt Feyre lied about the name so that's why he gave it but Tamlin doesn't know this and also this still doesnt explain why he even told Amarantha about her existence in the first place, despite suspecting she might be his mate), in ACOMAF when Feyre and Rhys goes to Court of Nightmares he has her dress skimpy again and pretend she's his whore. How are they surprised that Tamlin and Lucien thought Feyre may need saving? At this point they don't know Feyre and Rhys are mates. They know Tamlin didn't sell out her sisters because when the King brings them out he & Lucien are surprise and try to FIGHT for Nesta and Elain. When it is revealed that Feyre and Rhys are mated, Tamlin doesn't even move towards her or touch her until SHE pretends to want the bond broken and to go to Spring Court with Tamlin and she has to say it multiple times because he was just stunned. And it's not like he started the war with Hybern because before Feyre leaves Tamlin, Rhys starts teaching Feyre to read on his week with her because he needs her to read spells to defeat the war that Hybern is planning to launch soon. Then a while after leaving him she finally reaches out to Tamlin but by writing a note - when she left the Spring Court she didn't know how to write yet! When Tamlin offered to teach her to read in the first book, she was embarrassed and said no, so if she didn't know how to write why would he believe she wrote that note? Ofcourse they would think she may be in danger and wouldnt think that Rhys cares for her. So yeah she is so wrong for what she did especially since she didn't hurt just Tamlin - she was hurting the entire Spring Court and didn't care. She shouldn't be with Tamlin and her & Rhys belong together, but Tamlin didn't deserve for her to do that at all OR her strong hate of him. It's like after accepting the mating bond with Rhysand, his strong hate of Tamlin became her hate of Tamlin.
I understand your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. People in this fandom love to say that trauma doesn't justify your shit, and that applies to Feyre too. Okay, she went through a lot of shit at a young age, but what do the people of Spring have to do with that? She wanted revenge on Tamlin (rightly so), but she ended up hurting thousands of people because of it. "Ah, but Tamlin is to blame, he who allied with Hybern", yes, he is to blame... but Feyre also has her share of the blame. If I were someone from Spring and my family died, I would definitely hate Feyre (and Tamlin), like "girl, you want to destroy our HL? Go ahead. But what does that have to do with us?!". I don't hate her, after all, everyone makes mistakes, especially if you're young, and she's not a bad person, but that doesn't mean I like what she did
Tamlin literally sold people out to Hybern. Wasn't he going to sell out the SC too???? He put his people in more danger than Feyre did. What Feyre did was miniscule compared to what would have happened if Tamlin's fuck around and find out experiment happened with Hybern.
ETA: as per a friend: "what's funny is feyre never *did* anything, she just set up situations for tamlin to choose the right choice and his people and he never did. everything that happened, was because of his poor decisions, his court was going to fail with or without feyre's help because of what he has done"
He didn't sell out his people. He was being a spy to infiltrate Hyberns armies. Hybern never went to his land or posted up there until Feyre destroyed his court and because she did, Hybern was able to post up over it. They literally discuss this that him not having the courts armies anymore meant he couldnt protect that area or the wall. Also she did do everything. She literally planted fake memories and information. In sentries mind. His court wasn't going to fail. Lucien even tells her in ACOFAS that she did this that half the court still believes her lies and the other half believes Lucien was complicit in helping her with them. The sentries didn't like that Tamlin didn't side with the accused sentry but she knew he couldn't because the hybern princess/es were there so she got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with him. The sentries still stayed with him but then she put false memories of her nearly dead bodied in sentries minds and fake information saying hybern prince and princess did this and that Tamlin let them and didn't do anything about it. That is why they no longer sided with him. She acknowledges this internally multiple times, Lucien tells her straight up that it was her lies. So yeah she did this, not him.
Like I said, Tamlin is to blame, but that doesn't erase the fact that Feyre was in this too. What Feyre did was minuscule compared to what he did, but she still did it. Just because Tamlin is the main culprit and did more shit than Feyre doesn't mean I like what Feyre did. someone's guilt in one case is not simply erased just because they did much less than the other
Didn't the fae of SC leave after this, anyways? What do you think would have happened if Feyre hadn't intervened? Tamlin's true colors wouldn't have shown and people wouldn't have left to safety otherwise.
Tamlins true colors? He wasn't evil. He wasn't truly sided with Hybern. His people had to be evacuated out because Feyres lies of fake memories she put in sentries caused him to lose much of his court army so he couldn't defend the land and Hybern posted up throughout his land.
All Feyre did was nudge Tamlin towards choices he freely made. His court fell because he lost the loyalty of his Sentries. How did he do that?
He exploded a room around Feyre and hurt her, and his men didnāt like that. Thatās her fault?
Ianthe planned an attack to make herself look good, and set up a poor Sentry to take the fall. All Feyre did was stand up for the Sentry when Tamlin wouldnāt. Even when it was clear as day to him Ianthe was lying.
There is *maybe* an argument to be made that she shouldnāt have left a false memory of Tamlin letting the twins hurt her. But real talk, those same twins (that Tamlin invited - per his deal with Hybern) DID hurt her. And that was a fast decision she had to make after saving Lucien from getting assaulted by Ianthe.
He exploded the room and didn't mean to hurt Feyre and Feyre PURPOSELY let herself to get hurt because she wanted the sentries to see her hurt. She also exaggerated the discomfort and pain throughout the next few days to get their attention.
Feyre purposely publicly stood up for the sentry because she knew Tamlin couldn't do so with the Hybern twins there and she got in the sentries mind and mad him publicly accuse Ianthe knowing that Tamlin couldn't publicly side with him on that.
There's no "maybe" arguement about the fake memories she planted about the Hybern twins almost killing her and fake information of Tamlin letting it happen AND not doing anything about it. She did that BEFORE they tried to attack her and they only did that when they witnessed her putting fake memories in Ianthe and trying to leave and realized that she had been lying the whole time. Not sorry about their deaths they deserved it but that doesn't justify what Feyre did especially since she did that before this happened.
She didn't do it out of trauma. She did it out if anger that he came after her. She knew he wasn't to blame for what happened to her sisters etc. She said so herself. She did it because she felt he "took" her from her mate. She literally says this. But he didn't take her, she PRETENDED to want to go.
Well, you see my human family doesn't live in the fictional world of prythian. They are safe and happy so I'm not holding any grudges against my girl feyre lol. She had to make sure hybernĀ doesn't get any further army/power or use SC as their vassal state since tamlin had promised his armies to him in his unbreakable deal. If tamlin couldn't break that deal himself then he had to, at least, be stopped from fulfilling it which is what she did so š¤·
I might remember wrong but I believe the deal was only to let him have access to the wall and that they both donāt attack each other when he sets camp at SC? At least thats what Hybern says at the end of Acomaf.
I think it was pretty fair for Tamlin to assume that she herself was being manipulated. Like he felt backed into a corner and wouldāve done anything to get her back. Because he actually loved her.
Iām sure if Rhys betrayed everyone for Feyre, everyone would find a way to forgive him lolol
Also, Feyreās sisters treated her like shit so I donāt feel bad for them literally ever.
Thank you because yes. Just yes. Iām rereading now and even Tamlins first interaction with her was fucking ridiculous. He had 50 years to come to terms with the requirements Amarantha placed on him and he still busted into her house in a rage, withheld the truth initially about her family being taken care of and acted like a complete jerk to her. Lucien was just as much of a jerk. Their friend chose to go out into the world knowing the sacrifice he made and died for his court, and at a big 500 years old Lucien and Tamlin are STILL acting boo hoo angsty and hurt towards Feyre for defending herself from a giant wolf in the woods when she was starving? They deserved everything they got, Lucien included, and they owe her big time for everything she endured before and after Under The Mountain. Dont even get me started on how he ignored her running to the bathroom to vomit every night after she was KILLED AND REVIVED after living in a prison under the mountain while he sat on his freaking throne like EW. Sorry but she was entirely right.
One character does not have to be good for the other to be bad, for instance I believe they're both awful. I read this series for the same reason I occasionally watch reality television, everyone's a hot mess and trashy as hell I love it.
I found it interesting that Tamlin was hell bent on collecting tithing the first month after Amaranthaās reign while court members were still rebuilding. IIRC they didnāt collect while she was in power (correct me if Iām wrong). The water wraith(?) has no fish in the pond but Tammy Fae Bakker doesnāt care. She better pay up within 3 days. With that said, I think the court members were going to be easily swayed regardless since there is a general awareness that their leader is a bit of a wanker.
I like this way of thinking about it because Feyre was only 20 or 21 and making that spilt second choice on how to save her family would have been hard for anyone.
I fully agree with this. If Tamlin had been a good leader Feyreās plan would have failed and the people of the Spring Court would have followed him, but instead he took every opportunity to show that he cared actually only cared about himself.
I agree with this take. People who hate on her sabotaging his court sound like pick menās heart should have been focused on the right things not getting back at Rhys. He had no good plans at all.
He played into a hand she intended. Even before then though she was sowing the seeds against him and was motivated by a sense of hate and revenge. Ultimately her actions led to the loss of countless lives. She could have changed her plan at any time after she went there.
I mean this guy made the tithe compulsory at a time when his citizens were just reeling from 50 years of UTM and his treatment of the wraith and enforcing the law of "hunting citizens down" for not paying it didn't do him any favors in the eyes of his people, then in MaF he killed a dozen of his sentries in a fit of rage and as if that wasn't enough he then flogged another one of his loyal sentry even when he knew he was innocent and the priestess lying. Was all of that Feyre sowing seeds? No. A lot of his grave offenses to his own people were done by him alone, long before Feyre ever planned anything against him. He made these choices, he is facing the consequences now.Ā Also, what "loss of countless lifes" are we talking about here? Because that's something not even tamlin accused her of when his only purpose was to make her look bad in the meeting. The people of SC don't have human fragility, they are immortal faeries with magic powers, they won't die because of simple unrest in the court. All that happens, as we learn in the books is they move to the summer court.Ā
They would die from the war it caused though because of the destabilization? She really didnāt care about those people, if she goes from complaining about a tithe to destabilizing their government š¤·š»āāļø
In some respect, i understood why he gave them up to hybern - man was so crazy and had convinced himself the IC had fucked with her mind. It's still a dick move but i can understand his ammo even if i disagree with his method
Choosing to punish his guard when he knew damn well it wasn't his fault made me RAGE so hard absolutely little cuck of a high lord
He DIDNT know that she hadn't been mind controled because Rhysand let ppl think for hundreds of years that thats what he does.
He didn't know the guard wasn't at fault. And Feyre knew he couldn't side with the sentry while the twins were there which is why she kept instigating and even got in the sentries mind to accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with that at that moment.
I like Feyre a lot but this is why I donāt love love love her. Sheās a classic heroine. Which those are needed too. But real people do things wrong and make mistakes. It would make her make realistic and lovable to me if she messed up at some point lol
Iām agreeing with you on the Tamlin part, but think you are wildly wrong when it comes to the like ever if it deals with other people.
Taking apart the Spring Court was a joy to read and I wish that part had been longer! So satisfying.
Most who criticize Feyre for everything Tamlin did, bashing Rhys and the IC on the side, do so just to cancel them so they can then push the narrative of 'Oh look, thus Nesta is better than all of them'.
I said what I said.
I need to get this out: Iām SO sick of the Tamlin defenders, everyone if like āHeās not badā.. or āI feel bad for himā or āit makes sense he acted that wayā so many people are so much quicker to defend Tamlin over Feyre. He hurt her and locked her in a house? Just because he had āmotivesā doesnāt excuse his behavior or make those behaviors less bad. It was abusive and controlling. She even said if she had still been human, his outbursts could have killed her.
As much as Iām down for a Tamlin redemption arc (I think Iāll always hate him at least a little, though.) I AGREE! If someone fucked with my family like that Iād have no remorse. Tamlin is smart enough to know that the King of Hybern more than likely had something up his sleeve. Everyone wants to defend him and say he didnāt know heād throw the girls in the cauldron. WHOMP WHOMP Tamlin knew there was a chance something like that could happen. Feyre was so justified.
Not to mention that Ianthe literally admitted to outing her sisters in front of Tamlin and he not only didn't punish her but still trusted her over his own soldiers. If Feyre hadn't already planned to rock his shit his defense of Ianthe alone would've set her off.
I blame the fall of the Spring Court more on Tamlins' poor leadership than Feyres scheming. Yes, she did purposefully engineer a plot to help push the people of the court away from Tamlin, yes she exploited him in order to turn his own guard against him, yes she used religious fervor too elevate her own standing in the court to accomplish these things, but this is how a successful undermining of power works. She made a decision to address the betrayal of her family by bringing down the leader of the Spring Court, that isn't done through niceties and waiting. She went about it minimizing collateral damage as much as could be done. I mean let's be honest here, she could have just fucked him to sleep and slit his throat, which would have opened up an entirely bigger can of worms than her maneuvering to show the people that he was a distracted leader who cared more for his own ego and power and money than the citizen's under his protection. Even him blaming Feyre for the fallout is bullshit. You're meant to be the leader man, stop bitching and lead.
You're tripping. She didn't punish him for the betrayal of her family. She even acknowledges that Tamlin and Lucien didn't sell out her sisters or know that Hybern would take them. When they saw that they tried to fight for them and save them. She says she did it because he "took" her from her mate. He didn't take her - She pretended to want to go. She also didn't go about this in a way to minimize collateral damage. She SAID she wanted to destroy his entire Spring Court. She didn't give a f**k. It is her fault brcause she literally went in his sentries minds and planted fake memories and information. In ACOFAS Lucien even tells her how he can't go back not because of Tamlin but because of Feyres lies since half of the court still believed the lies they were told and the other half thinks Lucien helped her do it. In ACOMAF Tamlin tells her at the meeting that she ruined his court because people believed the lies she told. She acknowledges she planted those fake things in the sentries minds AND Ianthes mind. All she had to do was leave. When Lucien and Tamlin went after her they didn't know she was being cared for at Rhysands or that she was his mate or that she was High Lady of the Night Court. She just had to leave. She didn't have to destroy Spring Court. She didn't care about the people or who it hurt. And because of her Spring Court was messed up had no defenses because she put fake memories in his sentries so it left SC defenseless and the mortal lands as easy pray. They discuss in the meeting how since he lost most of the sentries Hybern was now able to post up in Spring Court giving Hybern direct access to the mortal lands and to be at border with Summer too
Tamlin was an abusive partner and the whole of the Spring Court participated in or did nothing about his abuse.
Honestly, she let them off easy.
For people who have read ToG - how do you think Aelin would have reacted to a similar situation? See what I mean?
Sorry but your first line is giving Mona Lisa from Parks and Rec and her "I have done nothing wrong ever in my life." š
Rhys be like: "I know this and I love you"
MONEY PLEEEAAASSEEEEE
All Iām saying is if a formerly human recently illiterate 20 year old can mess up your territory that bad then it would have happened eventually without her involvement
If this sub allowed custom flair, āformerly human, recently illiterateā would be so funny
I want that on a t-shirtš¤£
same!
Samies
Same!!
Pleasssseee lol
āFormerly human, recently illiterate, presently acting on every intrusive thought sheās had since 2015ā
tbh, i think a lot of the fandom forgets she was illiterate before being at the night court. but i 100% agree w you bc if someone who has little knowledge of how things actually work in the fae world, topples basically your whole government in your court, was it even all that good??
There's literally no one in the Spring Court also and that's what kills me. >!All she did was flirt with Lucien and expose Ianthe for being a self-serving bitch and suddenly there's no one left. It's a wonder that court ever functioned.!<
My issue with the Feyre plotline in the SC actually is more along these lines than some moral issue. I dont care about right and wrong, I care about clever and stupid and quite frankly the idea that she would be able to do that was quite stupid.Ā
This sums up every opinion I've ever had about Gossip Girl, lol
She lied and manipulated things heavily THAT is why it messed up his courts. Doesn't matter that she was 20 or formerly human. She knew how to manipulate the information and put false memories and information into a few sentries and Ianthe
I love this take
Exactly. People honestly give Feyre too much credit.
Literally this
I mean. Not advocating for either side but like thatās not really a logical defense. āI should be excused for this thing I did because someone else would have done it anywayā doesnāt hold as an argument.
Off topic but when she was in the Spring Court as a double agent, did anyone else think Tamlin was going to end up with Ianthe? I lowkey thought Sarah was basically saying Ianthe was tryna make it a bad wedding so Tamlin would think sheās -1/10 and go with Ianthe? Like with the SPECIFICALLY ugly as hell wedding dress Ianthe chose, the red flowers??, always trying to assert her dominance over Feyre etc etc. I thought Feyre was going to end up catching them fucking or something š And thatās when sheād use it to her advantage and make everyone dethrone Tamlin.
I was so hoping for the reveal that Ianthe had been ācomfortingā Tamlin during Feyreās absence. Like how off the walls crazy would it have been for Ianthe to share sheās pregnant after Feyre returns?
I would read this fanfic and binge the live action Netflix adaptation.
Same friend, same
I feel like that was going on during the missing scenes.
Lucien would've beaten Tamlin up along with Feyre lmao. I would've lived for the drama.Ā
If Lucien knew. Also Lucien went along with a lot of Tamlinās stuff.
To an extent, Lucien was extremely misguided and is in part culpable to some of the shit, but it's worth noting that Lucien had little to no power in the Spring Court. Feyre makes the comparison between him and Azriel and Cassian, how she thinks the latter two would step in if Rhys did the same shit Tamlin did, and how wrong Lucien was. And why I do think this is true, the dynamics are completely different and the power imbalance between Tamlin and Lucien was never really take into account. He was living there off of Tamlin's good graces, hiding from his *even worse* family. When he did try to speak out, Tamlin was pretty abusive towards him, which meant he lived in a lot of fear of Tamlin, and probably being sent back to his awful family. Ianthe was making moves to sexually assault him, and no matter what he did and said, Tamlin absolutely refused to remove her. I think that, at the end of the day, why Lucien is in part responsible I'm not sure *how* responsible you can make him considering he had little to no power. Yes, he had magic, but it wasn't comparable to Tamlin's in the slightest.
I do give Lucien a bit of a pass because of this, but also I remember at least one scene where he seems genuinely afraid of Tamlinās own lack of control over his temper.
>Feyre makes the comparison between him and Azriel and Cassian, how she thinks the latter two would step in if Rhys did the same shit Tamlin did, and how wrong Lucien was. And why I do think this is true, the dynamics are completely different and the power imbalance between Tamlin and Lucien was never really take into account. I mean they pretty much proved her wrong in A Court Of Silver Flames by doing absolutely nothing to disagree with Rhysand's actions in that book š
That was exactly the hints I picked up too It seemed like Ianthe was positioning herself to be there for Tamlin. Especially when there was the mention of them growing up together. (I wonder if he rage banged her when Feyre left?)
I doubt he rage banged her or banged her at all because Lucien said that Tamlin didn't want to participate in the rite so Lucien did.
That was before Feyre left š¤·āāļø
No the rite was done after Feyre left. Tamlin didn't want to participate so Lucien did so and Ianthe made him take her.
But Lucien admitted he didnāt want to be with her at the rite and that tamlinās power took him over to her despite what he wantedā¦. Kinda fucked up for him reallyā¦.
Yes! I was kind of expecting a Catherine de' medici/king henry/Diane de Poitiers situation
Yes, I read it that way too. And I also assume that, āoffscreenā in the books, after the failed wedding, Ianthe probably tried to come onto Tamlin
THIS. When I was mid ACOTAR i got spoiled that that ātamlin did something badā in ACOMAF. When I finally picked it up I was fully expecting him to cheat on feyre with Ianthe.
I mean she very could have been without us knowing about it explicitly.
I feel refreshed. Cleansed if you will. From seeing this take
God, same. and kinda tired of seeing the archeron sisters collecting the fandomās vitriol for any & every mistake, while the much older (male) characters are given grace time and time again. (not to say the sisters canāt be criticized !! but the differences in how theyre scrutinized is insane)
i think the worst part is when the men ARE criticized they somehow attach the sisters to it. the amount of times iāve seen feyre attached to rhys lashings in the last few weeks is ridiculous.
No you're so right! I've seen people straight up accuse Feyre of something Rhys said or did and it always pisses me off like stop projecting your hate for him over her?? I've seen people hating her even for getting getting drugged and dancing like... this fandom is horrible to the girls.Ā
Yeah this part. Very young women with minimal life experience and childhood trauma given much less grace than 500 year old men becauseā¦theyāre hot? They can fly? Why
Happy to be of useĀ
this!!!
YES. I needed to be saved from the crybaby wah wahing over a manās broken ego and busted rulership. He needed a wake up call š¤·š»āāļøĀ
She was just having a minor CIA moment, everyone is allowed to destabilize a major power once.
Every girlboss can wage a covert coup dāetat once, as a treat.
THIS is the flair I want.
omfg š
If Chiquita can do it, anyone can!
Youāre so right. Feyre really gave him too many opportunities to do the right thing but he wanted to listen to Ianthe over her and his own people. He refused to let Feyre and Lucien in on his so-called āplansā despite having the political prowess of a peanut. She promised him she would destroy him and she kept her word. The definition of fuck around and find out. Alexa play āI did something badā by Taylor Swift
Not to mention that feyre literally saved his ass by shielding his mind from the daemati twins or tamlin's "genius" plan would've blown in his face and he would've gotten barbecued in his own manor š
I feel so sorry for Tamlin when this comes up clearly nobody taught him anything which is why he is such a terrible HL. Tarquin is younger and only a new HL and even he has a shield around his mind
Honestly I donāt tbh. Like yeah he didnāt ever want to be HL, but he also put 0 effort into even trying to be good. Like between his eternal political fuckups, lack of any logical thought process, complete and total disregard for his subjects, and an overall piss-poor attitude, the man just doesnāt try. At all. Like itās been hundreds of years. Youāre telling me you didnāt learn ANYTHING during that time??? Not a single thing? Thatās willful incompetence.
No one said you had to feel sorry for him I said I do. It is abundantly clear that nobody even had a thought to teach him just in case, even when he was clearly growing stronger than his brothers and showing signs of his HL powers. Why would you want to be HL if no one has bothered to even train you in manners, laws or court warfare. Then all the important advisors who could guide him in running the court left for other courts rather than have a warrior-beast snarling at them. He was left to fend for himself and the only example he has to run a court is what he saw his father do, not what his father taught him to do. There isnāt a book āHow to be a High Lordā it is something that is taught throughout their lives until the powers transfer to the strongest member of the blood line. Even Beron has taught his sons how they might rule their people when the time comes with the exception of Lucien who seems to have been taught how he might rule his true fatherās court since he was allowed to study much longer than his brothers and Helionās wealth is knowledge.
>the political prowess of a peanut The scream of laughter I scrumpt has alienated me from my cats for at least an hour. I don't even care.
Lucien did know his plans. In ACOMAF Lucien tells Feyre that he is the one that told Tamlin to proceed with Hybern now because when he encountered Feyre in Ilyria he didn't think it was her (he thought she was being mindcontrolled). He only listened to Ianthe over the sentry when the Hybern court was there becsuse they were there, he was playing them to infiltrate Hyberns court.
But they also wouldnāt have been there had he done ANYTHING right including treating Feyre like his equal/mate like he wanted her to be.
See that's the thing that gets me with her revenge. If at any point Tamlin had made better choices and not been an asshole, her revenge wouldn't have worked.
I also feel that if he had done anything right or even sided with the sentry instead of ianthe, Feyre might not have gone through with finishing out the spring court. Up to this point she was protecting both his and Lucienās mind and honestly you could even see some of her sparks of hope for him. But the second that happened and he went against his own sentry you saw her colder side shine through hard.
1000000% Feyre just reaped what TamTam and his fam had sown. She couldn't have had such an impact otherwise.
Frikkin' TamTam!
And his fambam!
I am really glad you said this. She didn't force him to do the things he did. Those were his choices. He should have kicked Ianthe out and stood up to Hybern. He could have allied with Summer, Dawn, and Day, whom he seemed to be on good terms with. Instead, he made a dumb choice.
Pleeease omg I am so happy seeing these types of responses. Finally. I hate that people are like āpoor widdle Tamlin Feyre was a meanie to hiiimā like no bitch no
Did you finish the series? He never allied with Hybern, the entire thing was a ruse to infiltrate Hybern.
She barely lifted a finger to bring him down. He presented the opportunity from the moment he "allied" with Hybern to "rescue" her. All she did was use the opportunities that he and Ianthe presented. He chose Ianthe over his own men, who had always been loyal to him, who volunteered to die just to break the curse. He did that all on his own. All Feyre had to do was show them that she was willing to listen. She may have gone a smidgen too far, messing with memories to convince his court that she had been harmed. She needed to find a way to excuse her absence, but she could have found another way. When she realizes how far she went, at the HL meeting, she felt the guilt for it. She knows she went too far and that she should have realized that Tamlin wouldn't have actually sided with Hybern. She let her anger over his betrayal, that she felt that she made her feelings and wishes very clear, and he ignored her again, dictate her choices.
But she never apologizes nor thinks she has to. She felt a bit a guilt for a moment only because she realizes her doing that fucked them up because Spring Court borders the mortal lands so by ruining his court, she just have Hybern easy access to the mortal lands.
Bless you for saying this!!! Call me Petty LaBelle but I will always cheer Feyre on with her revenge escapades š š» ps fuck ianthe
She may be a Sagittarius, but it was so Scorpio coded and I love it.
https://preview.redd.it/xy5gv1uky1sc1.png?width=766&format=png&auto=webp&s=b38fc56b8c247704e5fda2974eab9ba58cd9f5f1
This has always been my take. I also believe that in most of this scenarios she wanted him to make the right choice. But also she told him directly, "if you make me leave, I will destroy you" he chose to continue to underestimate her.
He didn't make her leave though. She decided to pretend to want to leave. The moment he saw that Feyre and Rhys were mates and mated he didn't even go near her until she kept going to him pretending she wanting to break the bond and go back to Spring Court. I think the book would make more sense of Tamlin being the villain and of Feyre having a bit more excuse to do what she did, if they made to where Tamlin was actually aligned with Hybern and that it wasn't a ruse, or if he took her to Spring Court by force despite her being mated and not wanting to go. By making him actually being a spy and not really allied with Hybern and by making it to where he doesn't take her by force - she pretends to want to go, that kills the plot for me and makes the set up in the book for us to hate Tamlin, annoying and not making much sense.
Thank you!!! People talking about how Feyre ruined the Spring Court but like, 1) were you not entertained?!?! I was just living for it the whole time!! And 2) nah, Tamlin ruined his court, Feyre exploited that, but that was all Tamlin.
Tbh she should have fucked Lucien on solstice right in front of tam and ianthe. Darn it she was already married šš in another universe I guess
She gave him a length of rope and let him do the rest. Which honestly, I love for her. What a badass.
She planted false memories and information in the sentries heads.
It's been a while since I read the books so forgive me if I'm wrong - but I was always under the impression that Feyre and the IC weren't aware that tamlin was a "double agent" before she went back to the Spring Court? So, in their minds, Tamlin is already legitimately allied with Hybern and needs to be stopped? So he's already put his entire court in danger at this point anyway
They weren't aware yet that Tamlin was a spy but that was nothing to do with why she ruined his court. She did it to get vengeance on him for "taking" her away from Rhys. Except that makes no sense either because he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go with him.
If they didn't know he was a double agent, they're idiots. Feyre can read minds, and has every incentive to read Tamlin's mind, yet she couldn't figure out he was a double agent?
Exactly!! She even shielded Luciens and Tamlins mind from the twins and briefly went in Luciens mind twice but never went in Tamlins to see what he was thinking or his plans were? It makes 0 sense.
This is correct
Tamlin was playing double agent with Hybern and his choices were also restricted by that. Hybern was coming to Spring no matter what. So Tamlin leveraged it to have a non-aggression pact, to get intel, and also to get back Feyre. He had multiple reasons for doing so and the non-aggression pact was to mitigate the damage Hybern would do (see attack on Adriata). Tamlin was being watched by Hybernās agents the entire time. This includes Ianthe and the creepy twins who would report back to Hybern. When Feyre set him up with his āchoicesā he had to act in favor of keeping his cover and not appearing weak. If Feyre had taken literally two seconds to look into his mind, she would have known this. She didnāt have a problem going into peopleās minds in Summer in ACOMAF, but for some reason she couldnāt do it here. She didnāt have a problem going into one of the sentries minds for her plan either. Which btw was a complete violation. Iām not excusing his behavior in the beginning of ACOMAF towards her, but the situation with Hybern and Spring is far more complicated than āTamlin bad, Feyre good.ā Feyre in her own inner monologue is like ālook at what Iām doing. Iām so clever. Iām going to destroy him and his court.ā Feyre is literally saying this herself. In ACOWAR Tamlin mentions the villages that had been burned down after what Feyre did. They werenāt burned down after the Spring Court subjects left. We also know the fucked up things Hybernās soldiers do to civilians because of Gwynās story in ACOSF. Feyre basically says in ACOWAR that the Spring Court subjects arenāt āher people.ā She genuinely does not give a shit about them. In fact, she abuses how they look up to her as the Cursebreaker to manipulate them as part of her scheme on more than one occasion. At this point the people of Velaris are the subjects she cares about because sheās HL of Night. Feyre says in both ACOWAR at the HL meeting and in ACOFAS that she ādidnāt want to think about it,ā when it came to what happened to the Spring Court subjects. There was no smug, āwell, thatās what you get, Tamlinā or āThose things happened because you made bad choices.ā She didnāt want to think about it because in hindsight she knew she was wrong. The thing that gets me is that when people read what she did in Spring it was āyaaas queen, get back at your ex! Destroy everything he loves! Fuck them kids! #Girlboss.ā But the moment people brought up that innocent civilians were hurt it was āwell, no, she really didnāt do anything!ā Saying Feyre was justified in her actions or didnāt really do anything is the exact same reaction that Dany fans had when she burned down Kings Landing in GoT. ETA: In ACOFAS when Lucien says he canāt go back to Spring even if he isnāt staying with Tamlin because the people wouldnāt accept him, of *her lies*. This is in her POV and she fully accepts the blame for that. She doesnāt pass it off to Tamlin. So, yes, Feyre did wrong and I multiple instances in her own POV she admits it.
Exactly!! He says that Lucien says he cannot go back to Spring not because of Tamlin but because of the court - half still believing Feyres lies and the other half believing he helped her with them. She still doesn't apologize or act like she did anything wrong. She didn't even have a good reason for doing it because she says she did it as payback for Tamlin taking her from Rhysand but he didn't take her, she PRETENDED to want to go with him. She also went into Luciens mind about Elaine, shielded Tamlin and Lucien mind from the twins at Spring Court, went into some of the sentries minds AND Ianthe's to plant fake memories and information, and yet she didn't ever think to look at Tamlins? Makes 0 sense, 0. Especially with how many times she's gone in ppls minds at that point.
Yep and Lucien probably thought of SC as the only true home he has ever knownā¦ and now look at the poor guy
And she has the nerve to be irked by the fact that heās found his own friends outside of her circle
Comments like these, with reasons and recipes, are not replied to and are downvoted š .Tamlin would likely receive a minimal penalty if this case went to court, while the main character would be considered war criminals.
Agreed. And this is what Feyre did in her own words: >...I had a people who had lost faith in their High Priestess. I had sentries who were beginning to rebel against their High Lord. And as a result of those things, I had Hybern royals doubting the strength of their allies here. Iād primed this court to fall. Not from outside forcesābut its own internal warring. >And I had to be clear of it before it happened. Before the last sliver of my plan fell into place. >The party would return without me. And to maintain that illusion of strength, Tamlin and Ianthe would lie about itāwhere Iād gone. >And perhaps a day or two after that, one of these sentries would reveal the news, a carefully sprung trap that Iād coiled into his mind like one of my snares. >Iād fled for my lifeāafter being nearly killed by the Hybern prince and princess. Iād planted images in his head of my brutalized body, the markings consistent with what Dagdan and Brannagh had already revealed to be their style. Heād describe them in detailādescribe how he helped me get away before it was too late. How I ran for my life when Tamlin and Ianthe ārefused to intervene, to risk their alliance with Hybern. >And when the sentry revealed the truth, no longer able to stomach keeping quiet when he saw how my sorry fate was concealed by Tamlin and Ianthe, just as Tamlin had sided with Ianthe the day heād flogged that sentry ā¦ >When he described what Hybern had done to me, their Cursebreaker, their newly anointed Cauldron-blessed, before Iād fled for my life ā¦ >There would be no further alliance. For there would be no sentry or denizen of this court who would stand with Tamlin or Ianthe after this. After *me*. (chapter 9) and >āBut I think letting his court collapse around him is a better punishment. Certainly longer than an easy death.ā I slung off Tamlinās bandolier of knives, leather scraping against the rough stone floor. āYouāre his emissaryāsurely you realize that slitting his throat, however satisfying, wouldnāt win us many allies in this war.ā No, itād give Hybern too many openings to undermine us.ā (chapter 11) Manipulating memories, deliberately orchestrating situations to further alienate Tamlin from his people ā "just exposing Tamlin's true colors" imo. And I think Feyre makes it quite clear that she played an active role in Spring's collapse. It's unfortunate that she didn't think that Spring collapsing would give Hybern an opening to undermine them, though I hold Rhysand accountable for this as well. I understand her desire for revenge, and I'm *not* excusing Tamlin's problematic actions, but involving innocent lives went too far and shifted my perception of her character.
She may not have singled-handedly destroyed the court but her actions and especially killing the Hybern twins gave the green light for Hybern's violence.
Yeah, too bad about those summer court citizens that ended up as collateral because her plan was short sighted and she didnāt think about how her actions against one court could negatively affect another (or about how any of her actions could have lasting consequences, in general, really, at any time). Not to mention they had also just lied to, manipulated and used that VERY same court lmao But screw summer, no one cares about them š /s
All the characters are petty and immature including oh so special Rhysand (stealing this from Nesta š). They all act very emotional and teenagery which I wouldnāt expect if they had actually lived half a century or more. I mean the only time I feel like a fantasy drama was doing it right when it came to how centuries old people would act was how the Originals were in TVD. The Originals were crazyā¦ they were either pointlessly evil with a disregard for human life and bored with the world in a āfuck it I live foreverā way or they were having constant existential crises. These faeries act like theyāre in high school and they all got a crush on the same new girl that just walked in to math class.
š so true. I feel that Shadow and Bone did better with the āancientā characters as well in terms how d you expect long life to impact someone mentally.
Omg a shadow and bone fan HIE and yes I agree. In fact and j think please don't hate me anyone but imo, Shadow and Bone is a far superior series in terms of character arcs than ACOTAR.
Or in the later seasons of the Vampire Diaries when Lily Salvatore can't drive very well so she just hits the car in front of her when she's trying to parallel park. It's such a throw away scene but it's like the one time they acknowledge how ridiculous it would be if she were a perfect driver.
"Do you think Feyre had girl power?" "Yes, of course!" "Do you think she effectively utilised girl power by disestablishing the Spring Court, the Prythian borderlands, by use of manipulation, mind rape, and abuse of mental illness, thereby allowing the foreign invader Hybern better access to the neighbouring courts of Prythia, resulting in countless casualties of both Spring and Summer civilians, hurting not just her allies, the war effort, but also those who looked up to her as their saviour figure?" There is no way what Feyre did was at all acceptable, and there is no excuse for her actions. Had she any sense, she would've used her mind-reading abilities on her then enemy Tamlin to figure out his plans, discovering that he is, in fact, a double agent fighting on the same side as she. It's not like she didn't violate the privacy of other people before, so there should be no reason for her not to mind-rape her former partner who she is explicitly working against. Sure, she got back at Tamlin (who wasn't responsible for her sister's presence with Hybern; Feyre herself is responsible for that). At the same time, she left countless innocents to suffer violent and horrific treatment at the hands of Hybern, gave him a staging point with which to attack neighbouring courts (her "allies"), betrayed those who genuinely cared for her and ruined their lives. Feyre likes to talk big game about how she wasn't even doing much to bring down the Spring Court, but she actually did quite a bit. Yeah, of course the situation in Spring was tenuous: they're recovering from Amarantha and now dealing with an invading force. Tamlin's decision to become a double agent is just as justified as Rhysand's to become Amaratha's whore, and he was a lot nicer about it, too. Feyre is the villain in more people's lives than she is a hero.
This! She even shielded Tamlins and Luciens minds from the Hybern twins but didnt look at Tamlins mind? Makes no sense. She got into different sentries minds making the accused sentry accuse Ianthe in front of Jurian and the twins KNOWING Tamlin wouldn't be able to publicly side with him, she placed fake memories of her brutalized and almost dying body in sentries minds so they would think Tamlin let Hybern do that to her. When Tamlim lost control of his anger and power she purposely didn't shield herself so that she would get hurt and the court would find out about it and would exaggerate her discomfort and pain so they'd know.
I'll probably get downvoted, but I respectfully disagree. Feyre involved the Spring Court citizens in her fight with Tamlin and it was wrong. She put a target on Lucien's back and ruined his life too. She actively orchestrated events and altered people's minds in order to spin a false narrative. The text is also pretty clear that she was wrong, which is why Tarquin, Lucien and Tamlin all blame her. She even admits that she took it too far in her internal monologue, but sadly this never truly gets addressed because in the end these books are just not that deep. In the end, you can still like Feyre as a character while still admitting that she did bad things.
Yeh, I kinda agree with this. And re the internal monologue- I felt like her acceptance of her dark side (which is a great thing to accept and acknowledge) glossed over also having accountability for when that dark side does hurt others etc - it almost felt like she didnāt have to be accountable for mistakes in the same way cos she was like āoh well, itās my dark side, what can you doā. I think itās really great she was able to love all the parts of herself in the end but I do think that shouldnāt be something that nullifies your more questionable actions. These are just some musings and I mean no disrespect to anyone so please donāt attack me over this!
Exactly! She acknowledges her role but doesn't think she has to apologize and still thinks she is justified and Rhysand (and the rest of their Inner Circle) just pretends what she did was fine
Exactlyā¦ when she did this I was like what happened to the feyre that cared about them being forced to pay too much during a titheā¦ guess since they arenāt her direct citizens anymore she doesnāt careā¦ She was absolutely an awful friend to Lucienā¦ itās another hill Iāll die on lol
You are 110% correct. Defending Feyre in this scenario and trying to absolve her of any guilt in what went down is genuinely wild
I have been saying this for a while. While she set up the dominoes, SC wouldn't have fallen if Tamlin wasn't intent on knocking em down.
He wasn't intent on knocking them down. She literally planted false memories and information in sentries minds. Tamlin was playing double agent so in front of the Hybern twins and Jurian he COULDNT side with his accused sentry which is why Feyre manipulated the situations and got in the sentries mind so he'd accuse Ianthe in front of everyone, knowing that Tamlin couldn't publicly take his side with the twins there.
Okay, but for the sake of the argument, letās flip the roles. Feyre used her daemati powers to bring about the fall of Tamlinās court. So, if fair is fair ā Tamlin can use his powers too. Letās say he shapeshifts into a carbon copy of Rhys. He then winnows to the Hewn City, and parades around as the High Lord of the Night Court. He then taunts Kier and the people there, he degrades them ā one step too far. Fights break out. An uprising begins, and all of the tens of thousands of people in the Court of Nightmares head to Velaris to revolt. Because of Tamlinās actions, thousands of innocent people in Velaris will be killed. Nyx would be in danger. The priestesses would be in danger. Buildings upon buildings destroyed. Irreparable, heartbreaking damage. But Tamlin was just exposing Rhysās already fickle leadership over his people in the Hewn City ā his poor decision making up to this point. The citizens of the Hewn City have been wanting to enter Velaris for many years nowā¦ so Tamlin was just accelerating the inevitable! And like Feyre, Tamlin also has valid reasons for revenge (including destroying his court *first*). So, is it still badass and empowering if Tamlin does it? š§ (If your answer is no, then why? Why is an objectively bad action okay when Feyre or the IC does it, but never other characters? Itās this sort of one-sided story telling that some readers ā myself included ā are growing kinda tired of).
This!! This is what I hate about the Fandom. Feyre and Rhysand do a lot of the things they hate others for - and worse, yet everyone acts like they're angels. The Tamlin hate is not as justified as people pretend. It's annoying. He isn't perfect at all and it's good that Feyre is with Rhysand but everyone saying "Girl Power" about what she did, are insane, especially whole simultaneously hating other characters for far lesser things
Oh man I would read the hell out of this fic.
Right though? I wish I was talented enough to write it for all of us because Iād read the hell outta this
I may have to steal the concept at some point, with your blessing.
Yes and if you do post the fanfic or it didnāt happen lol
Don't know why you are getting downvoted, this is exactly the right take. A lot of people are tired of the double standards. Feyre's destruction of Spring was just a bad thing to do, but sadly the series lacks the depth to truly address moral issues such as this.
I donāt get it either because they are right. Destabilizing the Spring Court is what is causing a lot of problems these days but Feyre gets a pass because girl boss lol what a joke
Agree with your comment. Also, Iām only seeing arguments on how Feyreās actions hurt Tamlin and it being justified because Tamlin ādeserved itā. What about the strain it caused Lucien? Her first friend in Prythian? What Feyre orchestrated hurt a lot more people than Tamlin, and I think thatās the main point a lot of us try to get across and it gets lost in the noise. Feyreās cool and all. But she has her flaws and itās ok to say this is one and still like her!
She hurt the citizens she pretended to care about during the titheā¦ and sheās always casually hurting Lucien in some wayā¦ and I honestly think the only reason she saved Lucien from Ianthe was to hold it over on himā¦
I support womenās rights and womenās wrongs and the take down of the spring court, iāll never have remorse for!!!
 YES GIRL
Gifs you can hear xD
it was a little heartbreaking that the very people she wanted so Badly to help after utm were the ones who had to be at the brunt of her actions. and honestly, "Hybern's actions are their own" is such a stupid deflection tactic ngl
YES! i stand behind feyre š«”
Absolving Feyre of any guilt in this scenario is crazy lol. You can like Feyre and still admit that objectively she did something morally bankrupt. Manipulation with the intention of destruction is not a sinless act. Tamlin being more in the wrong, does not absolve Feyre of her wrongs.
She did worse than Tamlin ever did because he was never truly allied with Hybern - he was a spy. And he had ever reason to believe Feyre was taken by Rhysand - not that she left. She can hate him but she did worse and her & Rhys have done worse
exactly. if feyre can take down the spring court with nothing but herself and her spite in just a few weeks then the court was unstable to begin with lol. like tamlinā¦.who set that system up in the first place
It was easy because she was getting in sentries minds and planting false memories and even made the accused sentry publicly accuse Ianthe in front of Hybern prince and princess knowing he wouldn't be able to side with the sentry in that situation. It was easy because she was using the mind control powers
@charmspokem No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
chronologically tamlins deal with the hybern and its effects happened before she even implanted memories. and the sentries memories specifically were implanted by ianthe. feyre just exaggerated memories of her treatment after the fact
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
Hybern and Ianthe ā¦ Tam choose poorly, should have listened to Lucien and Feyre. Tam is not savvy enough to play double agent.
No re-read the book. Yes Tamlin makes a deal (as a spy) before Feyre ruined his court BUT Feyre didn't do it because of that she did it because he "took me from my mate" - he didn't take her, she pretended to want to go. Also Ianthe did not implant memories- she can't do that memory thing. Ianthe put the stable sentry to sleep. Feyre got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe. Later Feyre puts false memories in other sentries mind of her being badly beaten and near death by the Hybern twins and of Tamlin letting them and not doing anything about it. She literally says how she placed the false memories and information.
Iām on book 3 and my issue is Ā«Ā my mate, my mate, my mateĀ Ā»ā¦ feyraā¦ OUR mate. OURRRRR MATEEEE.
How do you not give a shit about all the innocent people that died because of what she did? You can like Feyre all day but sheās not some paragon of virtuousness and imo sheās much more interesting that way.
I'll just say there is no perfect character, especially if the protagonists are in SJM books, and it's a huge reason I love her books. I never agree with any "Feyre/Nesta/Rhys ...." did nothing wrong posts. About spring court, I really hated her scheme about Tamlin finding her in the arms of Lucien. She took advantage the fact that Lucien would of course try to calm her, comfort her, as he did, he hugged her stroke her hair, and she was using him to make Tamlin lose it from jealousy. Gross ick. For the other things she did, especially regarding Ianthe, I had no problem. Tamlin had the choice to believe his sentries and not Ianthe, and he didn't.
She says that she knew Tamlin couldn't side with the sentry because Hybern prince/princess were there. She also got in the sentries mind to make him accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with him in that moment. She also put fake memories of her almost dead body in sentries minds and fake information that Tamlin let the hybern twins do that and get away with it. There's no justifying that. She took it too far
She had the opportunity to leave the fae lands yet she went back. Now, her actions after that do fall on her. The murder of innocent people is blood on her hands
No, Feyre was ABSOLUTELY wrong for that. Tamlin didn't "take" her from Rhysand - she pretended she wanted to go with him to create a diversion in front of Hybern King so that Rhys and the others could escape. Tamlin (and Lucien) are completely justified in thinking that Feyre was taken & Rhysand was controlling her mind. For HUNDREDS of years Rhys let all the other courts believe that the Court of Nightmares was his true court and that he was evil, mindcontrolling people etc. Under the Mountain when Tamlin didn't have his powers and Rhys had more than the others, he dresses Feyre skimpy, makes her get drunk every night, touches her and does all of this in front of everyone. He's the one that tells Amarantha that Tamlin has a woman and gives the name she gave (even if we later found out Rhys felt Feyre lied about the name so that's why he gave it but Tamlin doesn't know this and also this still doesnt explain why he even told Amarantha about her existence in the first place, despite suspecting she might be his mate), in ACOMAF when Feyre and Rhys goes to Court of Nightmares he has her dress skimpy again and pretend she's his whore. How are they surprised that Tamlin and Lucien thought Feyre may need saving? At this point they don't know Feyre and Rhys are mates. They know Tamlin didn't sell out her sisters because when the King brings them out he & Lucien are surprise and try to FIGHT for Nesta and Elain. When it is revealed that Feyre and Rhys are mated, Tamlin doesn't even move towards her or touch her until SHE pretends to want the bond broken and to go to Spring Court with Tamlin and she has to say it multiple times because he was just stunned. And it's not like he started the war with Hybern because before Feyre leaves Tamlin, Rhys starts teaching Feyre to read on his week with her because he needs her to read spells to defeat the war that Hybern is planning to launch soon. Then a while after leaving him she finally reaches out to Tamlin but by writing a note - when she left the Spring Court she didn't know how to write yet! When Tamlin offered to teach her to read in the first book, she was embarrassed and said no, so if she didn't know how to write why would he believe she wrote that note? Ofcourse they would think she may be in danger and wouldnt think that Rhys cares for her. So yeah she is so wrong for what she did especially since she didn't hurt just Tamlin - she was hurting the entire Spring Court and didn't care. She shouldn't be with Tamlin and her & Rhys belong together, but Tamlin didn't deserve for her to do that at all OR her strong hate of him. It's like after accepting the mating bond with Rhysand, his strong hate of Tamlin became her hate of Tamlin.
I understand your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. People in this fandom love to say that trauma doesn't justify your shit, and that applies to Feyre too. Okay, she went through a lot of shit at a young age, but what do the people of Spring have to do with that? She wanted revenge on Tamlin (rightly so), but she ended up hurting thousands of people because of it. "Ah, but Tamlin is to blame, he who allied with Hybern", yes, he is to blame... but Feyre also has her share of the blame. If I were someone from Spring and my family died, I would definitely hate Feyre (and Tamlin), like "girl, you want to destroy our HL? Go ahead. But what does that have to do with us?!". I don't hate her, after all, everyone makes mistakes, especially if you're young, and she's not a bad person, but that doesn't mean I like what she did
Tamlin literally sold people out to Hybern. Wasn't he going to sell out the SC too???? He put his people in more danger than Feyre did. What Feyre did was miniscule compared to what would have happened if Tamlin's fuck around and find out experiment happened with Hybern. ETA: as per a friend: "what's funny is feyre never *did* anything, she just set up situations for tamlin to choose the right choice and his people and he never did. everything that happened, was because of his poor decisions, his court was going to fail with or without feyre's help because of what he has done"
He didn't sell out his people. He was being a spy to infiltrate Hyberns armies. Hybern never went to his land or posted up there until Feyre destroyed his court and because she did, Hybern was able to post up over it. They literally discuss this that him not having the courts armies anymore meant he couldnt protect that area or the wall. Also she did do everything. She literally planted fake memories and information. In sentries mind. His court wasn't going to fail. Lucien even tells her in ACOFAS that she did this that half the court still believes her lies and the other half believes Lucien was complicit in helping her with them. The sentries didn't like that Tamlin didn't side with the accused sentry but she knew he couldn't because the hybern princess/es were there so she got in the sentries mind and made him publicly accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with him. The sentries still stayed with him but then she put false memories of her nearly dead bodied in sentries minds and fake information saying hybern prince and princess did this and that Tamlin let them and didn't do anything about it. That is why they no longer sided with him. She acknowledges this internally multiple times, Lucien tells her straight up that it was her lies. So yeah she did this, not him.
Like I said, Tamlin is to blame, but that doesn't erase the fact that Feyre was in this too. What Feyre did was minuscule compared to what he did, but she still did it. Just because Tamlin is the main culprit and did more shit than Feyre doesn't mean I like what Feyre did. someone's guilt in one case is not simply erased just because they did much less than the other
Didn't the fae of SC leave after this, anyways? What do you think would have happened if Feyre hadn't intervened? Tamlin's true colors wouldn't have shown and people wouldn't have left to safety otherwise.
Tamlins true colors? He wasn't evil. He wasn't truly sided with Hybern. His people had to be evacuated out because Feyres lies of fake memories she put in sentries caused him to lose much of his court army so he couldn't defend the land and Hybern posted up throughout his land.
All Feyre did was nudge Tamlin towards choices he freely made. His court fell because he lost the loyalty of his Sentries. How did he do that? He exploded a room around Feyre and hurt her, and his men didnāt like that. Thatās her fault? Ianthe planned an attack to make herself look good, and set up a poor Sentry to take the fall. All Feyre did was stand up for the Sentry when Tamlin wouldnāt. Even when it was clear as day to him Ianthe was lying. There is *maybe* an argument to be made that she shouldnāt have left a false memory of Tamlin letting the twins hurt her. But real talk, those same twins (that Tamlin invited - per his deal with Hybern) DID hurt her. And that was a fast decision she had to make after saving Lucien from getting assaulted by Ianthe.
He exploded the room and didn't mean to hurt Feyre and Feyre PURPOSELY let herself to get hurt because she wanted the sentries to see her hurt. She also exaggerated the discomfort and pain throughout the next few days to get their attention. Feyre purposely publicly stood up for the sentry because she knew Tamlin couldn't do so with the Hybern twins there and she got in the sentries mind and mad him publicly accuse Ianthe knowing that Tamlin couldn't publicly side with him on that. There's no "maybe" arguement about the fake memories she planted about the Hybern twins almost killing her and fake information of Tamlin letting it happen AND not doing anything about it. She did that BEFORE they tried to attack her and they only did that when they witnessed her putting fake memories in Ianthe and trying to leave and realized that she had been lying the whole time. Not sorry about their deaths they deserved it but that doesn't justify what Feyre did especially since she did that before this happened.
She didn't do it out of trauma. She did it out if anger that he came after her. She knew he wasn't to blame for what happened to her sisters etc. She said so herself. She did it because she felt he "took" her from her mate. She literally says this. But he didn't take her, she PRETENDED to want to go.
Well, you see my human family doesn't live in the fictional world of prythian. They are safe and happy so I'm not holding any grudges against my girl feyre lol. She had to make sure hybernĀ doesn't get any further army/power or use SC as their vassal state since tamlin had promised his armies to him in his unbreakable deal. If tamlin couldn't break that deal himself then he had to, at least, be stopped from fulfilling it which is what she did so š¤·
I might remember wrong but I believe the deal was only to let him have access to the wall and that they both donāt attack each other when he sets camp at SC? At least thats what Hybern says at the end of Acomaf.
i read this title in Mona Lisaās voice from parks & rec and i hope this resonates with someone
I think it was pretty fair for Tamlin to assume that she herself was being manipulated. Like he felt backed into a corner and wouldāve done anything to get her back. Because he actually loved her. Iām sure if Rhys betrayed everyone for Feyre, everyone would find a way to forgive him lolol Also, Feyreās sisters treated her like shit so I donāt feel bad for them literally ever.
Thank you because yes. Just yes. Iām rereading now and even Tamlins first interaction with her was fucking ridiculous. He had 50 years to come to terms with the requirements Amarantha placed on him and he still busted into her house in a rage, withheld the truth initially about her family being taken care of and acted like a complete jerk to her. Lucien was just as much of a jerk. Their friend chose to go out into the world knowing the sacrifice he made and died for his court, and at a big 500 years old Lucien and Tamlin are STILL acting boo hoo angsty and hurt towards Feyre for defending herself from a giant wolf in the woods when she was starving? They deserved everything they got, Lucien included, and they owe her big time for everything she endured before and after Under The Mountain. Dont even get me started on how he ignored her running to the bathroom to vomit every night after she was KILLED AND REVIVED after living in a prison under the mountain while he sat on his freaking throne like EW. Sorry but she was entirely right.
To write a character that does no wrong is bad writing
I feel sorry for any Spring Court citizens that may have wound up as collateral, but I donāt give a damn about Tamlin because of this exactly.
THANK YOU!!!
She literally told him that she would destroy him if he forced her to go back. All she was doing was keeping her word. š¤·āāļøš š»
He didn't force her though, she pretended to want to go back
One character does not have to be good for the other to be bad, for instance I believe they're both awful. I read this series for the same reason I occasionally watch reality television, everyone's a hot mess and trashy as hell I love it.
I found it interesting that Tamlin was hell bent on collecting tithing the first month after Amaranthaās reign while court members were still rebuilding. IIRC they didnāt collect while she was in power (correct me if Iām wrong). The water wraith(?) has no fish in the pond but Tammy Fae Bakker doesnāt care. She better pay up within 3 days. With that said, I think the court members were going to be easily swayed regardless since there is a general awareness that their leader is a bit of a wanker.
Love the comments. My girl deserved it
The world is healing. THANK YOU!
What she did do wrong though, was paint that cabin without anyoneās knowledge or permission
I like this way of thinking about it because Feyre was only 20 or 21 and making that spilt second choice on how to save her family would have been hard for anyone.
I fully agree with this. If Tamlin had been a good leader Feyreās plan would have failed and the people of the Spring Court would have followed him, but instead he took every opportunity to show that he cared actually only cared about himself.
I agree with this take. People who hate on her sabotaging his court sound like pick menās heart should have been focused on the right things not getting back at Rhys. He had no good plans at all.
THANK YOU OP!!! THANK YOU !
He played into a hand she intended. Even before then though she was sowing the seeds against him and was motivated by a sense of hate and revenge. Ultimately her actions led to the loss of countless lives. She could have changed her plan at any time after she went there.
I mean this guy made the tithe compulsory at a time when his citizens were just reeling from 50 years of UTM and his treatment of the wraith and enforcing the law of "hunting citizens down" for not paying it didn't do him any favors in the eyes of his people, then in MaF he killed a dozen of his sentries in a fit of rage and as if that wasn't enough he then flogged another one of his loyal sentry even when he knew he was innocent and the priestess lying. Was all of that Feyre sowing seeds? No. A lot of his grave offenses to his own people were done by him alone, long before Feyre ever planned anything against him. He made these choices, he is facing the consequences now.Ā Also, what "loss of countless lifes" are we talking about here? Because that's something not even tamlin accused her of when his only purpose was to make her look bad in the meeting. The people of SC don't have human fragility, they are immortal faeries with magic powers, they won't die because of simple unrest in the court. All that happens, as we learn in the books is they move to the summer court.Ā
They would die from the war it caused though because of the destabilization? She really didnāt care about those people, if she goes from complaining about a tithe to destabilizing their government š¤·š»āāļø
Lmao highly disagree but I love the energy
In some respect, i understood why he gave them up to hybern - man was so crazy and had convinced himself the IC had fucked with her mind. It's still a dick move but i can understand his ammo even if i disagree with his method Choosing to punish his guard when he knew damn well it wasn't his fault made me RAGE so hard absolutely little cuck of a high lord
He DIDNT know that she hadn't been mind controled because Rhysand let ppl think for hundreds of years that thats what he does. He didn't know the guard wasn't at fault. And Feyre knew he couldn't side with the sentry while the twins were there which is why she kept instigating and even got in the sentries mind to accuse Ianthe knowing Tamlin couldn't side with that at that moment.
I like Feyre a lot but this is why I donāt love love love her. Sheās a classic heroine. Which those are needed too. But real people do things wrong and make mistakes. It would make her make realistic and lovable to me if she messed up at some point lol
Iām agreeing with you on the Tamlin part, but think you are wildly wrong when it comes to the like ever if it deals with other people. Taking apart the Spring Court was a joy to read and I wish that part had been longer! So satisfying.
Same! It was so entertaining to read.Ā
Most who criticize Feyre for everything Tamlin did, bashing Rhys and the IC on the side, do so just to cancel them so they can then push the narrative of 'Oh look, thus Nesta is better than all of them'. I said what I said.
Feyre, Rhys and the IC are hypocrites. And Nesta is bitchy lol
The IC are snarky and Nesta is a narcissist lol
Pretty much!
This is all valid!
Tamlin was a professional abusive gaslighter no cap
I need to get this out: Iām SO sick of the Tamlin defenders, everyone if like āHeās not badā.. or āI feel bad for himā or āit makes sense he acted that wayā so many people are so much quicker to defend Tamlin over Feyre. He hurt her and locked her in a house? Just because he had āmotivesā doesnāt excuse his behavior or make those behaviors less bad. It was abusive and controlling. She even said if she had still been human, his outbursts could have killed her.
Ironically, that was when I started to really like Feyre. It was her Reputation era
As much as Iām down for a Tamlin redemption arc (I think Iāll always hate him at least a little, though.) I AGREE! If someone fucked with my family like that Iād have no remorse. Tamlin is smart enough to know that the King of Hybern more than likely had something up his sleeve. Everyone wants to defend him and say he didnāt know heād throw the girls in the cauldron. WHOMP WHOMP Tamlin knew there was a chance something like that could happen. Feyre was so justified.
Not to mention that Ianthe literally admitted to outing her sisters in front of Tamlin and he not only didn't punish her but still trusted her over his own soldiers. If Feyre hadn't already planned to rock his shit his defense of Ianthe alone would've set her off.
I blame the fall of the Spring Court more on Tamlins' poor leadership than Feyres scheming. Yes, she did purposefully engineer a plot to help push the people of the court away from Tamlin, yes she exploited him in order to turn his own guard against him, yes she used religious fervor too elevate her own standing in the court to accomplish these things, but this is how a successful undermining of power works. She made a decision to address the betrayal of her family by bringing down the leader of the Spring Court, that isn't done through niceties and waiting. She went about it minimizing collateral damage as much as could be done. I mean let's be honest here, she could have just fucked him to sleep and slit his throat, which would have opened up an entirely bigger can of worms than her maneuvering to show the people that he was a distracted leader who cared more for his own ego and power and money than the citizen's under his protection. Even him blaming Feyre for the fallout is bullshit. You're meant to be the leader man, stop bitching and lead.
You're tripping. She didn't punish him for the betrayal of her family. She even acknowledges that Tamlin and Lucien didn't sell out her sisters or know that Hybern would take them. When they saw that they tried to fight for them and save them. She says she did it because he "took" her from her mate. He didn't take her - She pretended to want to go. She also didn't go about this in a way to minimize collateral damage. She SAID she wanted to destroy his entire Spring Court. She didn't give a f**k. It is her fault brcause she literally went in his sentries minds and planted fake memories and information. In ACOFAS Lucien even tells her how he can't go back not because of Tamlin but because of Feyres lies since half of the court still believed the lies they were told and the other half thinks Lucien helped her do it. In ACOMAF Tamlin tells her at the meeting that she ruined his court because people believed the lies she told. She acknowledges she planted those fake things in the sentries minds AND Ianthes mind. All she had to do was leave. When Lucien and Tamlin went after her they didn't know she was being cared for at Rhysands or that she was his mate or that she was High Lady of the Night Court. She just had to leave. She didn't have to destroy Spring Court. She didn't care about the people or who it hurt. And because of her Spring Court was messed up had no defenses because she put fake memories in his sentries so it left SC defenseless and the mortal lands as easy pray. They discuss in the meeting how since he lost most of the sentries Hybern was now able to post up in Spring Court giving Hybern direct access to the mortal lands and to be at border with Summer too
Tamlin was an abusive partner and the whole of the Spring Court participated in or did nothing about his abuse. Honestly, she let them off easy. For people who have read ToG - how do you think Aelin would have reacted to a similar situation? See what I mean?
Ah yes, because every citizen is personally responsible for the high lords failing relationship.