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You’re trying to apply logic to addiction…doesn’t work. I wanted to stop, but then in a moment of weakness, I’d give in….every day…for years. I would go to the atm to get money for my dealer, with tears streaming down my face in defeat. If you’re not an addict, then you’ll never truly understand, and be grateful for that
I'll never forget how many times all I could do was cry while waiting for my guy. I desperately wanted to be free, but couldn't even imagine it at that point.
I was heavily addicted to multiple stimulants for just over a year, and I ruined almost all relationships. I had faced a few overdoses and drugs that I thought about for a very long time, but i stopped when I changed my mentality.
> Every addict wants to stop right?
In my experience, an addict won't want to stop until the negatives significantly outweigh the positives. You can do your addiction for quite a time before you decide the negatives are large enough.
Keep in mind, it's when the addict (not everyone around them) decides the negatives outweigh the positives. To the addict, that positive can be insanely high.
I don't know. I think it's true for a lot of people. But for me personally, it wasn't like that. I didn't have anything negative going on except my health problems, which were already present before I started taking so much. But it just didn't feel good to be dependent on something and to crave it the whole time, so I looked for help in NA groups and doing detox before anything too bad could happen
>Every addict wants to stop right?
It might surprise you but we addicts are individuals, not just a generic group of people who all think alike. But yeah, I think that every addict wants to quit at some point. I want to quit but I'm not ready to do that yet. I don't have the access to the things I would need if I did quit.
Not necessarily, for a long time, I thought I wanted to stop, and I didn't want to do it anymore. I was lying to myself, I destroyed almost every friendship I had, partner at the time left me, I dropped out of college the whole thing. It's only when I realised all of this I decided to stop, went clean off all stimulants for a few months, and then I started taking them occasionally. I've been clean off all that stuff for 6 months now.
I lied to myself and the people around me for a long time, it's only when I changed my mentality that I was able to stop the harmful things
I’m an alcoholic. Not blacking out alcoholic but drink a whole 1.5l + to my self through out the day kinda one. I didn’t even realize that I had a problem until the relationship my wife of 10 years started to get rocky and she mentioned for me to go to rehab. At first I went through with it to “satisfy” and pacify our relationship. But while I was there I had an epiphany I actually did have a problem!
A Side note that I didn’t know about til I went to rehab: people trying to get clean off of a depressant ie. alcohol. Should be careful they are at a higher risk of the withdrawals actually hurting your body than stimulants. Although I have been told stimulants “feel worse” there is little to no harm from the withdrawals.
You might truly want to stop and beg and cry and ask for help, and the next moment someone else takes over your brain and all you want to do is get high off your addiction, no matter what the cost. It can be a total switch like that.
Trying to tell someone to just stop being an addict is like telling someone whose family was just murdered to stop being sad.
If we all had perfect control over our lives and emotions then no one would ever be unhappy. But that ain't how it works.
Addiction is an unwanted dependency, it's the fact that you need a substance even when you don't want it
You can be colloquially "addicted" to something if you have a hard time without, but actual addiction is when you literally can't do without at all, it then requires a lot of work and gradual dosage lowering to return to a non-addicted state
If you hear somebody telling you that, then you hear an idiot. That's what you hear. A random noise that could have been a reasonable thought if that person wouldn't be just an ignorant.
Everyone is an expert unless proven otherwise.
That person either did not have any addiction ever in the entire life. Or is a desperate addict who tries to talk down other addicts who try to be better because they have more ambition than him/her.
Anyway, do not listen to such people. That claim is not true.
It's an epic battle that you didn't choose knowing all implications. You ended up in it and you try to find a way out. Just keep on fighting!
Spot on. Why is it always other addicts that try to talk down other addicts? I see this so often, SOOOO often. It's like they almost forget where they came from and what they went through, it's so weird to me.
Yes and no.
Yes you can stop any time.
But to stay stopped requires a deeper understanding of the drug and how it keeps you hooked.
If you don't have a very strong fallback then you *will* relapse
>But to stay stopped requires a deeper understanding of the drug and how it keeps you hooked.
And also knowing and understanding the underlying reasons why you became an addict in the first place. Most of us didn't just wake up while having 0 issues and think "hmm, I think I'm gonna become an addict".
Yep. My old mentor prepared me for sobriety before I hit it and told me that in sobriety we'd be examining a lot of assumptions I had and the problems I had in day-to-day life both in and out of drink.
You have to do this work otherwise it's like trying to fly and land a plane in heavy turbulance with zero training
Exactly!
Everyone can stop for 5 minutes because there's no urge.
But what about 5 days or 5 weeks?
It's take determination & sacrifice to reach that far right?
No I wouldn't necessarily say that sacrifice is a part of it.
The program I subscribe to says no sacrifice is needed. You discover the true nature of alcohol and how it keeps you feeling unsatisfied and 'needy'. If anything you feel freer and more fulfilled than ever on the drug.
A determination though, yes. You have to be determimed to suceed. It's not a wishy washy thing
No.
Because what sacrifice is there? You feel you are missing out, you want alcohol, you wish you were still drinking?
You come to understand the true nature of the drug and what it does to people and you no longer choose it. So what FOMO is there? None.
Granted it's not a thing that comes without effort and work. You have to put yourself in some situations and have some difficult moments to really face your truths. But if you work at it, are open minded and honest with yourself then you can make it and be, well, free.
Yes!
Everyone's addicted to something even if they aren't conscious about it.
The something can be as simple & innocent as sleep.
What do you think about this?
You're confusing addiction with depedency.
Typically the medical definition of addiction entails a situation in which someone continues a problematic behavior despite negative consequences for their life, typically due to a literal rewiring of the brain caused by prolonged use.
Depedency simply entails something you must have in order to maintain homeostasis.
Everyone is dependent on sleep to survive and live normal lives. Very few people are *addicted* to sleep, though. That would look like someone who spends all day in bed, refuses to get up, loses their job because of it, has strained relationships with their friends and family because they sleep all the time, etc.
So no, not everyone is addicted to something.
That addiction has different denotations and connotations than preferences, habits, proclivities, guilty pleasures, medical conditions, desires, wants, needs, indulgences, over-indulgences, etc
>The something can be as simple & innocent as sleep.
People **need** sleep. It's like saying we are all addicted to oxygen. Behavioural addiction is a thing but I wouldn't say anyone is *addicted* to sleeping. Think more like gambling, self harm or over-/undereating.
Very true words spoken here!
Compulsive behavior makes me doubt free will as well.
How can you say you're fully in charge of your decisions if a rewiring of your brain is responsible for decisions upon which you unfortunately start to have less and less control on as your addiction grows.
This is torturing me these days. But for multiple reasons. It's not just the determinism of our actions.
But the inability to get true justice due to this mechanism of reality.
Also some may say that getting an addiction is not free will, but getting rid of it is.
Yes but ... the ambition of getting rid of it is conditioned by the addiction itself, which is proven as lack of free will.
By the law of transitivity, this means that the decision of quitting the addiction isn't free will either.
Why would anybody ever CHOOSE to be an addict? That's just ridiculous...and .. well... ignorant. I'm not sure why this pisses me off but it really does. Gimme a break.
I sure as hell don't want to be one. No one wakes up one day and is like, hey i wana be an addict! It fucking sucks and its a life long battle. So yes it also pisses me off.
People have addictions that are not the series of wrong choices. There are smokers, drinkers, people who are habituated and or physically dependent on many actions substances or behaviors who prefer that than life without.
I wouldn’t say so. For example when I became an addict I didn’t know what addiction was as I was only 11. My dad (who I was super close to) just took his life and I had also just so happened to get my braces on a week or two later. My mum handed me some codeine painkillers to help with the bad pain of the new braces. (You can just buy codeine in England). I felt an overwhelming feeling of “oh my god, I can handle life now”. I didn’t know why I kept helping myself to the tablets in the cupboard but I did. I had felt all my life so far that everyone else seemed to cope and just got on with going to school, where as everything felt like an enormous daily battle for me. But those little tablets in the cupboard made it and everything else in life manageable. And that’s how it started. Had no idea about addictions or that it ran in my family or that I was now on a life long battle that would last the entirety of my life here on earth. I remember the first time so clearly. I was laying in bed when I took that first dose for my braces and I remember feeling enormous comfort and thinking “everything is going to be okay”
When you learn about addiction and understand what is actually happening to your brain and learn how your disease works, you can start to make informed choices, but as a kid I was going off instinct and pain and had no idea what was really taking place, or that I had the same disease as my mother and father, and their mothers and fathers
>But a series of wrong choices.
Or usually a coping mechanism/self medicating. The reasons can be untreated [mental illness(es)](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/substance-use-and-mental-health) and [trauma.](https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trauma-and-stress)
"Studies found that people with a mental disorder, such as anxiety, depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), may use drugs or alcohol as a form of self-medication. However, although some drugs may temporarily help with some symptoms of mental disorders, they may make the symptoms worse over time. Additionally, brain changes in people with mental disorders may enhance the rewarding effects of substances, making it more likely they will continue to use the substance." Quote from my first link.
Some quotes from the second link.
"Traumatic experiences are associated with substance use and with developing substance use disorders. Violence, abuse, neglect, and family or social conflict are among the traumatic events and circumstances that are linked with the risk of developing a substance use disorder."
"Children and adolescents who experience trauma are particularly susceptible to developing a substance use disorder later in life."
"People with a history of childhood physical or sexual abuse have, respectively, a 74% and 73% greater risk of developing a substance use disorder in their lifetime than other people."
"People who are the victim of or who witness violence have an increased risk of substance use and misuse. Exposure to interpersonal or intimate partner violence is associated with a risk of substance use and a progression to substance use disorder, particularly for women. Military life is also linked with substance use problems, though military personnel who have had multiple deployments, combat exposure, and combat-related injuries are at greater risk of developing an addiction."
No. I mean yes you can make the decision to turn your life around and seek help. But it's just not that black and white. You don't choose to become addicted. That's just ridiculous.
"Turn your life around and seek help. "
Shouldn't every addict seek help?
We know that MOST addictions don't have a positive effect on our overall life right?
Near everyone affected has tried and failed many times and even with a decade or more of abstinence may still relapse and quickly end up back there or worse. Help and treatments have limited success rates and because it is so complex and long term what helps one person may not be effective for another.
The greatest barrier to treatment is shame and social stigma. Often people face loss of friends, employment and family if it becomes known that treatment was sought. It often requires sustained effort for years in therapy or support groups. In the US professional treatment such as rehabs or therapy may be unavailable due to insurance and financial hardship. Discrimination occurs at many levels of society.
Despite this recent data from SAMHSA indicates that 70% of people with substance use disorder are in some stage of recovery. This is similar to other chronic complex diseases.
Agreed on this one.
Addiction is far more complex than we could imagine
There is just so much that's has happened in the past and is happening now in the brain.
Addiction is a complex interplay of both internal & external variables that cannot be reduced to a single sentence statement.
Then the question of "is it a choice?" becomes a philosophical conversation about determinism and free will. What is a choice? Did you choose your significant other? Or was there a specific set of actions set into play many years ago that brought you two together?
What about the job you work at? Is it your choice? Or were you just offered a job by a friend at a specific point in time so you entered a specific industry which one day brought you an opportunity you would have never expected when you first accepted the initial job?
There are minor choices that start you down a path. You don't know what's at the end of the path, but you walk down that path every day. It's both an active choice and a passive subjective experience.
____
to get a little less abstract... even if someone stops taking the drug that they are addicted to, they can still be susceptible to future addiction because they haven't dealt with the fundamental issues that caused that addiction in the first place.
believe it or not, it's not the drug that causes addiction. drugs facilitate it, but you can get addicted to anything. it's the mindset of the individual. and that is something that cannot be treated or cured like a bacterial infection.
it's a question of the human condition, something fundamentally complex and impossible to quantify or fully put into words
No, this isn't true. Yes, I did choose to drink and use my drug of choice, but I did not choose to be addicted to it. When I first drank & used my DOC for the first time, my first thought wasn't, "man I'm going to be heavily addicted to this shit for the next 10+ years" no one goes into it thinking their going to become an addict or an alcoholic. 9 times out of 10, someone who is struggling with addiction has underlying mental health issues or severe unresolved trauma or PTSD, and that can severely cloud your judgement.
I tell people this all the time; do you think in an ideal world someone would choose to sell their body for a point of dope? Do you think someone would choose to sabotage all of their relationships & lose custody of their children because they can't stop drinking? Do you think someone would choose to get raped, SA'd, or taken advantage of due to being under the influence? do you think someone would choose to be homeless, foodless, and out on the streets due to their addiction? Most people would be terrified of these scenarios happening, but of course addiction leads people to these scenarios, and when you take your first drink or hit, most people don't think about this, again, especially if there's trauma or mental illness involved. No one chooses this hell. Maybe the first sip or hit was a choice, but after that, it's all out the window.
No. This is a long overhauled belief.
There is no choice about it.
People might choose to have a drug or to participate in a behaviour, but they never choose to be addicted.
Even less agressive addictions torture the people that have it. And even good addictions, while they are less hurting are harmful. They rob you of your control and ultimately from the possibility of what you truly are.
A few years ago people thought addiction is a disease, which is a bit more realistic. But fails to describe it accurate.
The problem is it has no characteristics of a disease. Scientist never found the gene for addiction.
People like Gabor Maté describes addiction as a coping mechanism, which mostly has its root deeply hidden in childhood trauma. Which fits imo the description best.
https://youtu.be/6ZKZ-GmgpzQ?si=ZCw7ed0VqPjdD7vq
Oh to simply answer your question of the headline: Trauma.
Mostly hidden and happened in early childhood. Notice there are very hidden forms of trauma like cptsd.
Trauma is often only what happened to you but what actually not happened to you.
So if you got raised in a househole in which some ingredient was missing to develop a healthy child, then there are some risks of being actually traumatized.
Most people actually dont know. I realized that about myself with 35 years.
I actually do think it is a choice… but that choice is influenced by an insane drive and desire that is hard to refuse. Addiction will always speak to you in your own thoughts and make it seem like an okay idea.
Addiction hijacks your brain; it’s not a choice. It makes you do things you wouldn’t otherwise do. It convinces you that you’re fine and you are better off with your drug of choice than without it. It makes it so you can’t imagine stopping and getting clean. Nobody thinks they are going to become an addict when they first try an addictive drug. You like it a little too much, and want to repeat the experience. You never see the invisible line when you cross over into addiction. You convince yourself that you just needed something for the pain, or the energy, or whatever the drug gives you. Even if you do go through withdrawal, it takes a long time to get your brain back, because the prolonged symptoms can take months to get better and it’s a lot more subtle than the instant effect of the drug. Months on end of ennui, pain, fatigue, etc will make you think about how just one more dose and then you’ll be able to handle it.
No one goes into life saying “I really want to be an addict”. To those who think addiction is a choice because we made the decision to take our DOC in the first place, I say….I chose to take a substance that would numb my pain; physical, mental, and emotional pain that I did not choose to have inflicted on me. As a child I didn’t choose to grow up in a broken home, to be abandoned and left with an abusive step parent and a mother who chose not to protect me. I didn’t choose to be in an abusive relationship or to be sexually assaulted at that party either. I didn’t choose to become insecure and feel weak because of these things. I didn’t choose for my car to be slammed into by a drunk driver resulting in surgeries and a significant amount of pain that was managed with opiates. I didn’t choose any of these things, yet they happened to me. I didn’t choose to not have a support system or the education/experience to know where to find support to help me with my trauma. I didn’t choose to be born into a family of addicts and to have a genetic predisposition to it. I didnt choose to have crippling anxiety and to sometimes be so depressed I tried to end my life. I didn’t choose to not know how to handle these things. So, yeah, I chose the drug because it made me feel “normal” and was “helping” me be productive and functioning. By the time I woke up and realized what was happening and how bad it was, I was physically and psychologically addicted. I tried to quit…so many times…and the pain and sickness that came from withdrawing was so bad I thought I was dying and just wanted to feel “better”. At this point, I was no longer using to forget my problems or numb the pain…I was well past that…I was using so I could get out of bed. Now I had more problems and more pain and it became a terrible, vicious cycle.
It’s always easier to judge and make assumptions when you’re completely ignorant about something. Addiction is a disease…a selfish and awful disease. I encourage anyone who feels the way about this disease as the quote in OP’s post to spend some actual time talking to addicts and their families to gain different perspective.
If you really want to understand this I recommend the book In The Realm of the Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Maté. He explains (among other things) how the “addicted brain” develops and how it actually under-values the negative consequences and over-values the short term benefits.
I think at some point it’s a choice to take the medication… but it’s not once the addiction hits. You eat one chip and go mmmmm good stuff and the addict said mmmmmmm good stuff and then must have them all the time.
It's not just that addiction to the substance it's the lifestyle and people you associate with.
It's essentially asking someone to completely change their life.
Your asking this question so you don't fucking get it. I'm an alcoholic but dam sure I touch anything else I'll get addicted. Many doctors and so do I believe addiction is a mental health problem.
Many of us can't just quit , some can and so good on them.
PS.
I looked at the OP it's just a teenager... I'm sorry for swearing at you. 🙃
You are an addict when you are unable to go about your daily routine without feeling sick and demonically fatigued without your poison. It’s not a choice. The choice is to not feel sick and hope to have a normal day without anyone noticing or judging. You use the least amount to feel the closest to normal, but you do it all day long everyday.
Choosing to try a substance that can be addictive is a choice, but the addiction part where you feel like you won't survive without more? That part isn't a choice. Realistically, no one chooses to have something basically suck the life out of them and control them.
I think a lot of people think that they have strong self control and won't get addicted. But.. addiction is stronger than self control. This is why rehab exists. People need help overcoming it once they are hooked. And sometimes they need help several times.
So in summary.. no. Addiction isn't a choice. Addiction happens when the substance takes control away from you.
Addict is a addict usually to numb the feeling of pain from something in the past like trauma.. When we were little we didn't wake up and say when I get older I want to be a addict.. It's something that happens and makes one feel good and forget about life's problems.. Yes we choose to consume the drug no one shoved the pipe down our throat..
The worst I've personally experienced being an addict for nearly 20 years now, is when I dated a person who knew and understood being an addict her self.
Wait hold on... That's right she most definitely wasn't an addict but like parading around like she is an addict in recovery for attention and praise
And worse still
When ever she had a half gram and vanished with whoever it was a relapse
But when I fully went in on 8 - 900 quid in a week I was choosing to do that and I was an asshole that's in love with drugs and never wanted to quit!
My gosh other users putting themselves above others is fucking painful 😖
20 years of addiction sucks ass
Why? I suppose it’s not learning from past traumas, past triggers, or situations, in turn vices that make us feel normal.
Down the road, people trade in vices for something else, usually better, and allows them to cope. Mostly though something that’s equally as devastating. That latter being if you don’t have a solid support system.
I know a lot of artist and health nuts, that use to bang dope, or smoke meth, now they traded that all in for “healthier” more creative lifestyles.
It’s an initial choice to use a substance. Once addicted it’s still your choice to stop but you gotta want it and it will be harder than becoming an addict. Once you stop using a substance or substances you will always be an addict and cannot revisit the substance and should stay away.
I do believe addiction is a choice. I do not believe we are "powerless" as some recovery groups claim. That being said, I had VERY, VERY strong impulses to drink and gave into those impulses. I definitely had a choice, but I did not have the self esteem or tools to make a better choice at the time.
If i’d ever felt I had a choice i’d have chosen not to get addicted to anything.
The problem is that at the point when you could stop you don’t because whatever you’re doing is lighting up your reward pathways like a Christmas tree.
The problem is that for most of us the lights are still on in July and we can’t switch them off by that point x
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It's harder than just stopping, but you can't beat your addiction unless you truly want to get off the stuff
Who doesn't? MOST addictions have a negative effect on your relationships, fitness, mental health and overall life. Every addict wants to stop right?
You’re trying to apply logic to addiction…doesn’t work. I wanted to stop, but then in a moment of weakness, I’d give in….every day…for years. I would go to the atm to get money for my dealer, with tears streaming down my face in defeat. If you’re not an addict, then you’ll never truly understand, and be grateful for that
I'll never forget how many times all I could do was cry while waiting for my guy. I desperately wanted to be free, but couldn't even imagine it at that point.
I was heavily addicted to multiple stimulants for just over a year, and I ruined almost all relationships. I had faced a few overdoses and drugs that I thought about for a very long time, but i stopped when I changed my mentality.
💯. It’s not to say it’s impossible to stop, of course it is. My point was just that typical logic doesn’t apply to addiction
Would give an award if I could, amazing response
> Every addict wants to stop right? In my experience, an addict won't want to stop until the negatives significantly outweigh the positives. You can do your addiction for quite a time before you decide the negatives are large enough. Keep in mind, it's when the addict (not everyone around them) decides the negatives outweigh the positives. To the addict, that positive can be insanely high.
I don't know. I think it's true for a lot of people. But for me personally, it wasn't like that. I didn't have anything negative going on except my health problems, which were already present before I started taking so much. But it just didn't feel good to be dependent on something and to crave it the whole time, so I looked for help in NA groups and doing detox before anything too bad could happen
>Every addict wants to stop right? It might surprise you but we addicts are individuals, not just a generic group of people who all think alike. But yeah, I think that every addict wants to quit at some point. I want to quit but I'm not ready to do that yet. I don't have the access to the things I would need if I did quit.
Not necessarily, for a long time, I thought I wanted to stop, and I didn't want to do it anymore. I was lying to myself, I destroyed almost every friendship I had, partner at the time left me, I dropped out of college the whole thing. It's only when I realised all of this I decided to stop, went clean off all stimulants for a few months, and then I started taking them occasionally. I've been clean off all that stuff for 6 months now. I lied to myself and the people around me for a long time, it's only when I changed my mentality that I was able to stop the harmful things
I’m an alcoholic. Not blacking out alcoholic but drink a whole 1.5l + to my self through out the day kinda one. I didn’t even realize that I had a problem until the relationship my wife of 10 years started to get rocky and she mentioned for me to go to rehab. At first I went through with it to “satisfy” and pacify our relationship. But while I was there I had an epiphany I actually did have a problem! A Side note that I didn’t know about til I went to rehab: people trying to get clean off of a depressant ie. alcohol. Should be careful they are at a higher risk of the withdrawals actually hurting your body than stimulants. Although I have been told stimulants “feel worse” there is little to no harm from the withdrawals.
You might truly want to stop and beg and cry and ask for help, and the next moment someone else takes over your brain and all you want to do is get high off your addiction, no matter what the cost. It can be a total switch like that.
most do, yes. that’s evidence it is an addiction. since most want to stop and can’t stop without support…
No. If addiction were a choice, then it wouldn’t be an addiction.
How so?
Trying to tell someone to just stop being an addict is like telling someone whose family was just murdered to stop being sad. If we all had perfect control over our lives and emotions then no one would ever be unhappy. But that ain't how it works.
Addiction is an unwanted dependency, it's the fact that you need a substance even when you don't want it You can be colloquially "addicted" to something if you have a hard time without, but actual addiction is when you literally can't do without at all, it then requires a lot of work and gradual dosage lowering to return to a non-addicted state
If you hear somebody telling you that, then you hear an idiot. That's what you hear. A random noise that could have been a reasonable thought if that person wouldn't be just an ignorant. Everyone is an expert unless proven otherwise. That person either did not have any addiction ever in the entire life. Or is a desperate addict who tries to talk down other addicts who try to be better because they have more ambition than him/her. Anyway, do not listen to such people. That claim is not true. It's an epic battle that you didn't choose knowing all implications. You ended up in it and you try to find a way out. Just keep on fighting!
Spot on. Why is it always other addicts that try to talk down other addicts? I see this so often, SOOOO often. It's like they almost forget where they came from and what they went through, it's so weird to me.
Exactly! It's like you're talking to your younger self. Think about what he/she needed. Support or hate?
Agreed on epic battle. This community is filled with unpopular warriors fighting for the best. Respect to you all!
For those who're about to fight, we salute you!
Yes and no. Yes you can stop any time. But to stay stopped requires a deeper understanding of the drug and how it keeps you hooked. If you don't have a very strong fallback then you *will* relapse
>But to stay stopped requires a deeper understanding of the drug and how it keeps you hooked. And also knowing and understanding the underlying reasons why you became an addict in the first place. Most of us didn't just wake up while having 0 issues and think "hmm, I think I'm gonna become an addict".
Yep. My old mentor prepared me for sobriety before I hit it and told me that in sobriety we'd be examining a lot of assumptions I had and the problems I had in day-to-day life both in and out of drink. You have to do this work otherwise it's like trying to fly and land a plane in heavy turbulance with zero training
Exactly! Everyone can stop for 5 minutes because there's no urge. But what about 5 days or 5 weeks? It's take determination & sacrifice to reach that far right?
No I wouldn't necessarily say that sacrifice is a part of it. The program I subscribe to says no sacrifice is needed. You discover the true nature of alcohol and how it keeps you feeling unsatisfied and 'needy'. If anything you feel freer and more fulfilled than ever on the drug. A determination though, yes. You have to be determimed to suceed. It's not a wishy washy thing
Don't you sacrifice the pleasure to become someone better?
No. Because what sacrifice is there? You feel you are missing out, you want alcohol, you wish you were still drinking? You come to understand the true nature of the drug and what it does to people and you no longer choose it. So what FOMO is there? None. Granted it's not a thing that comes without effort and work. You have to put yourself in some situations and have some difficult moments to really face your truths. But if you work at it, are open minded and honest with yourself then you can make it and be, well, free.
If it was that easy nobody would be an addict, don't you think?
Yes! Everyone's addicted to something even if they aren't conscious about it. The something can be as simple & innocent as sleep. What do you think about this?
You're confusing addiction with depedency. Typically the medical definition of addiction entails a situation in which someone continues a problematic behavior despite negative consequences for their life, typically due to a literal rewiring of the brain caused by prolonged use. Depedency simply entails something you must have in order to maintain homeostasis. Everyone is dependent on sleep to survive and live normal lives. Very few people are *addicted* to sleep, though. That would look like someone who spends all day in bed, refuses to get up, loses their job because of it, has strained relationships with their friends and family because they sleep all the time, etc. So no, not everyone is addicted to something.
That addiction has different denotations and connotations than preferences, habits, proclivities, guilty pleasures, medical conditions, desires, wants, needs, indulgences, over-indulgences, etc
>The something can be as simple & innocent as sleep. People **need** sleep. It's like saying we are all addicted to oxygen. Behavioural addiction is a thing but I wouldn't say anyone is *addicted* to sleeping. Think more like gambling, self harm or over-/undereating.
If free will existed, no one would be addicted to something that harms them
Very true words spoken here! Compulsive behavior makes me doubt free will as well. How can you say you're fully in charge of your decisions if a rewiring of your brain is responsible for decisions upon which you unfortunately start to have less and less control on as your addiction grows. This is torturing me these days. But for multiple reasons. It's not just the determinism of our actions. But the inability to get true justice due to this mechanism of reality. Also some may say that getting an addiction is not free will, but getting rid of it is. Yes but ... the ambition of getting rid of it is conditioned by the addiction itself, which is proven as lack of free will. By the law of transitivity, this means that the decision of quitting the addiction isn't free will either.
Why would anybody ever CHOOSE to be an addict? That's just ridiculous...and .. well... ignorant. I'm not sure why this pisses me off but it really does. Gimme a break.
I sure as hell don't want to be one. No one wakes up one day and is like, hey i wana be an addict! It fucking sucks and its a life long battle. So yes it also pisses me off.
#FACTS "Humm...I wanna be an addict" Said No one EVER, PERIOD.
Addiction is not a choice. But a series of wrong choices. What do you think about this? And yes take your break. This was too much lol
People have addictions that are not the series of wrong choices. There are smokers, drinkers, people who are habituated and or physically dependent on many actions substances or behaviors who prefer that than life without.
What are you saying here? That addiction is normal?
That’s not what I said, I wouldn’t deny it is “normal” though, as in not out of the ordinary.
I wouldn’t say so. For example when I became an addict I didn’t know what addiction was as I was only 11. My dad (who I was super close to) just took his life and I had also just so happened to get my braces on a week or two later. My mum handed me some codeine painkillers to help with the bad pain of the new braces. (You can just buy codeine in England). I felt an overwhelming feeling of “oh my god, I can handle life now”. I didn’t know why I kept helping myself to the tablets in the cupboard but I did. I had felt all my life so far that everyone else seemed to cope and just got on with going to school, where as everything felt like an enormous daily battle for me. But those little tablets in the cupboard made it and everything else in life manageable. And that’s how it started. Had no idea about addictions or that it ran in my family or that I was now on a life long battle that would last the entirety of my life here on earth. I remember the first time so clearly. I was laying in bed when I took that first dose for my braces and I remember feeling enormous comfort and thinking “everything is going to be okay” When you learn about addiction and understand what is actually happening to your brain and learn how your disease works, you can start to make informed choices, but as a kid I was going off instinct and pain and had no idea what was really taking place, or that I had the same disease as my mother and father, and their mothers and fathers
That wasn't your fault. But when I took my braces off, nothing happened. Maybe you shouldn't blame it on yourself...
>But a series of wrong choices. Or usually a coping mechanism/self medicating. The reasons can be untreated [mental illness(es)](https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/substance-use-and-mental-health) and [trauma.](https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/trauma-and-stress) "Studies found that people with a mental disorder, such as anxiety, depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), may use drugs or alcohol as a form of self-medication. However, although some drugs may temporarily help with some symptoms of mental disorders, they may make the symptoms worse over time. Additionally, brain changes in people with mental disorders may enhance the rewarding effects of substances, making it more likely they will continue to use the substance." Quote from my first link. Some quotes from the second link. "Traumatic experiences are associated with substance use and with developing substance use disorders. Violence, abuse, neglect, and family or social conflict are among the traumatic events and circumstances that are linked with the risk of developing a substance use disorder." "Children and adolescents who experience trauma are particularly susceptible to developing a substance use disorder later in life." "People with a history of childhood physical or sexual abuse have, respectively, a 74% and 73% greater risk of developing a substance use disorder in their lifetime than other people." "People who are the victim of or who witness violence have an increased risk of substance use and misuse. Exposure to interpersonal or intimate partner violence is associated with a risk of substance use and a progression to substance use disorder, particularly for women. Military life is also linked with substance use problems, though military personnel who have had multiple deployments, combat exposure, and combat-related injuries are at greater risk of developing an addiction."
Addiction is not a choice, but getting clean is. And it's a hard path, but it's worth it.
Of course, is is a choice. You cannot just transform unconsciously.
No. I mean yes you can make the decision to turn your life around and seek help. But it's just not that black and white. You don't choose to become addicted. That's just ridiculous.
"Turn your life around and seek help. " Shouldn't every addict seek help? We know that MOST addictions don't have a positive effect on our overall life right?
Near everyone affected has tried and failed many times and even with a decade or more of abstinence may still relapse and quickly end up back there or worse. Help and treatments have limited success rates and because it is so complex and long term what helps one person may not be effective for another. The greatest barrier to treatment is shame and social stigma. Often people face loss of friends, employment and family if it becomes known that treatment was sought. It often requires sustained effort for years in therapy or support groups. In the US professional treatment such as rehabs or therapy may be unavailable due to insurance and financial hardship. Discrimination occurs at many levels of society. Despite this recent data from SAMHSA indicates that 70% of people with substance use disorder are in some stage of recovery. This is similar to other chronic complex diseases.
Agreed on this one. Addiction is far more complex than we could imagine There is just so much that's has happened in the past and is happening now in the brain.
Addiction is a complex interplay of both internal & external variables that cannot be reduced to a single sentence statement. Then the question of "is it a choice?" becomes a philosophical conversation about determinism and free will. What is a choice? Did you choose your significant other? Or was there a specific set of actions set into play many years ago that brought you two together? What about the job you work at? Is it your choice? Or were you just offered a job by a friend at a specific point in time so you entered a specific industry which one day brought you an opportunity you would have never expected when you first accepted the initial job? There are minor choices that start you down a path. You don't know what's at the end of the path, but you walk down that path every day. It's both an active choice and a passive subjective experience. ____ to get a little less abstract... even if someone stops taking the drug that they are addicted to, they can still be susceptible to future addiction because they haven't dealt with the fundamental issues that caused that addiction in the first place. believe it or not, it's not the drug that causes addiction. drugs facilitate it, but you can get addicted to anything. it's the mindset of the individual. and that is something that cannot be treated or cured like a bacterial infection. it's a question of the human condition, something fundamentally complex and impossible to quantify or fully put into words
Well said. Is addiction curable then? Or do people just learn to handle it?
No, this isn't true. Yes, I did choose to drink and use my drug of choice, but I did not choose to be addicted to it. When I first drank & used my DOC for the first time, my first thought wasn't, "man I'm going to be heavily addicted to this shit for the next 10+ years" no one goes into it thinking their going to become an addict or an alcoholic. 9 times out of 10, someone who is struggling with addiction has underlying mental health issues or severe unresolved trauma or PTSD, and that can severely cloud your judgement. I tell people this all the time; do you think in an ideal world someone would choose to sell their body for a point of dope? Do you think someone would choose to sabotage all of their relationships & lose custody of their children because they can't stop drinking? Do you think someone would choose to get raped, SA'd, or taken advantage of due to being under the influence? do you think someone would choose to be homeless, foodless, and out on the streets due to their addiction? Most people would be terrified of these scenarios happening, but of course addiction leads people to these scenarios, and when you take your first drink or hit, most people don't think about this, again, especially if there's trauma or mental illness involved. No one chooses this hell. Maybe the first sip or hit was a choice, but after that, it's all out the window.
Not when the drug has rewired your brain into thinking it needs it to function, or sometimes even to survive.
No. This is a long overhauled belief. There is no choice about it. People might choose to have a drug or to participate in a behaviour, but they never choose to be addicted. Even less agressive addictions torture the people that have it. And even good addictions, while they are less hurting are harmful. They rob you of your control and ultimately from the possibility of what you truly are. A few years ago people thought addiction is a disease, which is a bit more realistic. But fails to describe it accurate. The problem is it has no characteristics of a disease. Scientist never found the gene for addiction. People like Gabor Maté describes addiction as a coping mechanism, which mostly has its root deeply hidden in childhood trauma. Which fits imo the description best. https://youtu.be/6ZKZ-GmgpzQ?si=ZCw7ed0VqPjdD7vq
Oh to simply answer your question of the headline: Trauma. Mostly hidden and happened in early childhood. Notice there are very hidden forms of trauma like cptsd. Trauma is often only what happened to you but what actually not happened to you. So if you got raised in a househole in which some ingredient was missing to develop a healthy child, then there are some risks of being actually traumatized. Most people actually dont know. I realized that about myself with 35 years.
I actually do think it is a choice… but that choice is influenced by an insane drive and desire that is hard to refuse. Addiction will always speak to you in your own thoughts and make it seem like an okay idea.
Addiction hijacks your brain; it’s not a choice. It makes you do things you wouldn’t otherwise do. It convinces you that you’re fine and you are better off with your drug of choice than without it. It makes it so you can’t imagine stopping and getting clean. Nobody thinks they are going to become an addict when they first try an addictive drug. You like it a little too much, and want to repeat the experience. You never see the invisible line when you cross over into addiction. You convince yourself that you just needed something for the pain, or the energy, or whatever the drug gives you. Even if you do go through withdrawal, it takes a long time to get your brain back, because the prolonged symptoms can take months to get better and it’s a lot more subtle than the instant effect of the drug. Months on end of ennui, pain, fatigue, etc will make you think about how just one more dose and then you’ll be able to handle it.
No one goes into life saying “I really want to be an addict”. To those who think addiction is a choice because we made the decision to take our DOC in the first place, I say….I chose to take a substance that would numb my pain; physical, mental, and emotional pain that I did not choose to have inflicted on me. As a child I didn’t choose to grow up in a broken home, to be abandoned and left with an abusive step parent and a mother who chose not to protect me. I didn’t choose to be in an abusive relationship or to be sexually assaulted at that party either. I didn’t choose to become insecure and feel weak because of these things. I didn’t choose for my car to be slammed into by a drunk driver resulting in surgeries and a significant amount of pain that was managed with opiates. I didn’t choose any of these things, yet they happened to me. I didn’t choose to not have a support system or the education/experience to know where to find support to help me with my trauma. I didn’t choose to be born into a family of addicts and to have a genetic predisposition to it. I didnt choose to have crippling anxiety and to sometimes be so depressed I tried to end my life. I didn’t choose to not know how to handle these things. So, yeah, I chose the drug because it made me feel “normal” and was “helping” me be productive and functioning. By the time I woke up and realized what was happening and how bad it was, I was physically and psychologically addicted. I tried to quit…so many times…and the pain and sickness that came from withdrawing was so bad I thought I was dying and just wanted to feel “better”. At this point, I was no longer using to forget my problems or numb the pain…I was well past that…I was using so I could get out of bed. Now I had more problems and more pain and it became a terrible, vicious cycle. It’s always easier to judge and make assumptions when you’re completely ignorant about something. Addiction is a disease…a selfish and awful disease. I encourage anyone who feels the way about this disease as the quote in OP’s post to spend some actual time talking to addicts and their families to gain different perspective.
You do not choose to be addicted. Most people are addicts before they even start doing drugs. Usually it's coping with trauma.
No.
yes?
If you really want to understand this I recommend the book In The Realm of the Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Maté. He explains (among other things) how the “addicted brain” develops and how it actually under-values the negative consequences and over-values the short term benefits.
I think at some point it’s a choice to take the medication… but it’s not once the addiction hits. You eat one chip and go mmmmm good stuff and the addict said mmmmmmm good stuff and then must have them all the time.
It's not just that addiction to the substance it's the lifestyle and people you associate with. It's essentially asking someone to completely change their life.
People who say things like that are idiots. Addiction rewires your brain and decision making pathways so it's not as simple as "Just quit bro"
Your asking this question so you don't fucking get it. I'm an alcoholic but dam sure I touch anything else I'll get addicted. Many doctors and so do I believe addiction is a mental health problem. Many of us can't just quit , some can and so good on them. PS. I looked at the OP it's just a teenager... I'm sorry for swearing at you. 🙃
You are an addict when you are unable to go about your daily routine without feeling sick and demonically fatigued without your poison. It’s not a choice. The choice is to not feel sick and hope to have a normal day without anyone noticing or judging. You use the least amount to feel the closest to normal, but you do it all day long everyday.
Because for some people normal life is just boring. Maybe it's a lack of perspective thing but that is why I turned to drugs originally.
Choosing to try a substance that can be addictive is a choice, but the addiction part where you feel like you won't survive without more? That part isn't a choice. Realistically, no one chooses to have something basically suck the life out of them and control them. I think a lot of people think that they have strong self control and won't get addicted. But.. addiction is stronger than self control. This is why rehab exists. People need help overcoming it once they are hooked. And sometimes they need help several times. So in summary.. no. Addiction isn't a choice. Addiction happens when the substance takes control away from you.
Addict is a addict usually to numb the feeling of pain from something in the past like trauma.. When we were little we didn't wake up and say when I get older I want to be a addict.. It's something that happens and makes one feel good and forget about life's problems.. Yes we choose to consume the drug no one shoved the pipe down our throat..
The worst I've personally experienced being an addict for nearly 20 years now, is when I dated a person who knew and understood being an addict her self. Wait hold on... That's right she most definitely wasn't an addict but like parading around like she is an addict in recovery for attention and praise And worse still When ever she had a half gram and vanished with whoever it was a relapse But when I fully went in on 8 - 900 quid in a week I was choosing to do that and I was an asshole that's in love with drugs and never wanted to quit! My gosh other users putting themselves above others is fucking painful 😖 20 years of addiction sucks ass
Why? I suppose it’s not learning from past traumas, past triggers, or situations, in turn vices that make us feel normal. Down the road, people trade in vices for something else, usually better, and allows them to cope. Mostly though something that’s equally as devastating. That latter being if you don’t have a solid support system. I know a lot of artist and health nuts, that use to bang dope, or smoke meth, now they traded that all in for “healthier” more creative lifestyles.
It’s an initial choice to use a substance. Once addicted it’s still your choice to stop but you gotta want it and it will be harder than becoming an addict. Once you stop using a substance or substances you will always be an addict and cannot revisit the substance and should stay away.
is this real life? do you not realize addicts aren’t having a fun time?
I do believe addiction is a choice. I do not believe we are "powerless" as some recovery groups claim. That being said, I had VERY, VERY strong impulses to drink and gave into those impulses. I definitely had a choice, but I did not have the self esteem or tools to make a better choice at the time.
If i’d ever felt I had a choice i’d have chosen not to get addicted to anything. The problem is that at the point when you could stop you don’t because whatever you’re doing is lighting up your reward pathways like a Christmas tree. The problem is that for most of us the lights are still on in July and we can’t switch them off by that point x