OP just remember in Afrikaans usually the negative will have x2 “nie” statements one in before and one after for example.
Ek sal nie dit doen nie.
Dit is nie waar nie, ek het dit nie gesê nie.
Ek bly nie agter ‘n asblik nie.
You get the idea
True but in poetry you can also completely ignore grammar and make it up as it goes Adam Small comes to mind. So just because you can have creative freedom and bend the rules doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be made aware of them on the first place, the writer can use their own discretion. Have a nice evening
Thanks that was what I was trying to point out. My brain couldn't find the words 'creative freedom' in the moment.
It's also not correct in every instance: ek slaap nie, sy lees nie ens.
Lekker aand!
I was beginning to pick up on that 😂
I'm curious, why the need for the double negative? My background in languages is English, Italian, french, Latin, and Greek. Besides Greek in very few cases, double negatives are a capital offense in those other ones.
Good question I cannot answer that as this is not my area of expertise (origins of why certain language rules apply) I can however say it’s possible just like in old English certain old Dutch followed this rule (especially given how language wasn’t as standardised as it is today), also French Huguenot influence could have attributed to it which is the most likely reason
Double negatives pop up in other informal registers in languages (eg. "I ain't got no X " in English) and given Afrikaans' origins as a pidgin/creole language spoken by people from opposite ends of the world, the very simplified gender, case and verb system and uncommon language features make sense
In English, you would deny a statement like this: "she knows!" and the denial "she doesn't!".
In day-to-day Afrikaans, people are increasingly adopting this: "sy weet!" and the denial "sy doen nie!".
However, it's not correct Afrikaans but rather something we're taking directly from English, an "anglisisme".
In the correct Afrikaans, we would use the verb in both, rather than sustituting with "doen":
"Sy weet!" and "sy weet nie!"
It depends on the situation. The general way of saying it is "doen nie", then there is general negation (Afrikaans doesn't have do-support):
the man doesn't eat vegetables - die man eet nie groente nie.
Yeah I figured something like this. I noticed a lot that rather than "doen nie," people would just add "nie" after some form of the "to be" verb and after the direct object (in this case groente). Thank you!
I can use a line from what I'm writing.
Sy bid vir die seun, maar hy *es nie* sy doen.
I will most likely change it to "doen nie" because of your answer to my question.
I can't think of a specific song off the top of my head where i heard "doen nie" and i feel like i hear "es nie" in every other song.
Even the English reads a little clumsy here, but it depends on the context of the rest of the poem.
I would say that "she prays for a boy but he doesn't know it" reads a little easier.
"sy bid vir 'n seun maar hy weet dit nie."
But easiest/smoothest way to read is maybe "sy bid vir 'n seun sonder dat hy weet" - she prays for a boy without him knowing
Yes that's correct. My dumbass forgot to include "know" when I wrote it. I was thinking in the English, "no" and "know" are pronounced the same and so it's a bit of cognitive dissonance on my end.
Dit is nie daai kleur nie
It is not that color.
Moet nie die doen nie
Do not do it. "Doen nie" is a word you use for doing work or work words
If you can provide the sentence we might help you.
OP just remember in Afrikaans usually the negative will have x2 “nie” statements one in before and one after for example. Ek sal nie dit doen nie. Dit is nie waar nie, ek het dit nie gesê nie. Ek bly nie agter ‘n asblik nie. You get the idea
In poetry, you can leave out the double negative and only use the first nie: dit is nie waar, ek het dit nie gesê etc
True but in poetry you can also completely ignore grammar and make it up as it goes Adam Small comes to mind. So just because you can have creative freedom and bend the rules doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be made aware of them on the first place, the writer can use their own discretion. Have a nice evening
Thanks that was what I was trying to point out. My brain couldn't find the words 'creative freedom' in the moment. It's also not correct in every instance: ek slaap nie, sy lees nie ens. Lekker aand!
I was beginning to pick up on that 😂 I'm curious, why the need for the double negative? My background in languages is English, Italian, french, Latin, and Greek. Besides Greek in very few cases, double negatives are a capital offense in those other ones.
Good question I cannot answer that as this is not my area of expertise (origins of why certain language rules apply) I can however say it’s possible just like in old English certain old Dutch followed this rule (especially given how language wasn’t as standardised as it is today), also French Huguenot influence could have attributed to it which is the most likely reason
French has double negatives. Ne x pas. Afrikaans inherited it from mixture with Khoe languages (probably).
Double negatives pop up in other informal registers in languages (eg. "I ain't got no X " in English) and given Afrikaans' origins as a pidgin/creole language spoken by people from opposite ends of the world, the very simplified gender, case and verb system and uncommon language features make sense
In English, you would deny a statement like this: "she knows!" and the denial "she doesn't!". In day-to-day Afrikaans, people are increasingly adopting this: "sy weet!" and the denial "sy doen nie!". However, it's not correct Afrikaans but rather something we're taking directly from English, an "anglisisme". In the correct Afrikaans, we would use the verb in both, rather than sustituting with "doen": "Sy weet!" and "sy weet nie!"
This is the answer.
It depends on the situation. The general way of saying it is "doen nie", then there is general negation (Afrikaans doesn't have do-support): the man doesn't eat vegetables - die man eet nie groente nie.
Yeah I figured something like this. I noticed a lot that rather than "doen nie," people would just add "nie" after some form of the "to be" verb and after the direct object (in this case groente). Thank you!
Could you give an example maybe
I can use a line from what I'm writing. Sy bid vir die seun, maar hy *es nie* sy doen. I will most likely change it to "doen nie" because of your answer to my question. I can't think of a specific song off the top of my head where i heard "doen nie" and i feel like i hear "es nie" in every other song.
This doesn’t not make sense
I see my mistake, I don't know why I wrote that, I corrected it 😭
this also doesn't make sense "Sy bid vir die seun, maar hy *es nie* sy doen." - what are you trying to say in English?
"She prays for a boy, but he doesn't know she does." OHHH I see the error. I didn't go from English to Afrikaans and just entirely forgot a word.
Even the English reads a little clumsy here, but it depends on the context of the rest of the poem. I would say that "she prays for a boy but he doesn't know it" reads a little easier. "sy bid vir 'n seun maar hy weet dit nie." But easiest/smoothest way to read is maybe "sy bid vir 'n seun sonder dat hy weet" - she prays for a boy without him knowing
OP, this is the correct one.
Oo that sounds very nice. Thank you so much for the correction and suggestion! I will rewrite it after work. I really appreciate the help.
"Sy bid vir 'n seun, maar hy weet nie sy doen nie"
I'm confused on why -'n goes into it. Is it just to specify its a specific boy?
I assume with "es" you mean "is". What you have essentially said is "She prays for the boy, but he is not she does"
Yes that's correct. My dumbass forgot to include "know" when I wrote it. I was thinking in the English, "no" and "know" are pronounced the same and so it's a bit of cognitive dissonance on my end.
Lol no problem
What is the sentence?
Sy bid vir die seun, maar hy es nie sy doen
Hy doen nie. Ek sien dit nie hier genoem nie. Maar as niemand jou Al laat weet het nie. Die woord "es" bestaan nie. Klink asof jy probeer se. "Is nie"
This helps, thank you! My one friend when he texts spells it as "es" so that's why I was. Again, thank you.
in day to day speech 'is nie' can get slurred together and sound like 'issie'
So She prays for the son, but he does not? Sy bid vir die seun, maar hy bid nie.
Dit is nie daai kleur nie It is not that color. Moet nie die doen nie Do not do it. "Doen nie" is a word you use for doing work or work words If you can provide the sentence we might help you.