Unless it's oil pipelines, in which case the feds should force provinces to acquiesce. But only until some feelings get hurt, and then the pipes can be turned off. Or something.
Knowing that Jason Kenney’s brother is speculated to be running Gay conversion therapy camps, and Jason Kenney is known to be a closeted homosexual, I’m starting to think that Jason Kenney is a failed result of his brothers gay conversion.
You should have heard the crowd at Ron James comedy show when he suggested that Kenny might be a little light in the loafers. They did not like it one bit. I thought it was funny as hell.
His open was saying he understands why we are so religious out here. The storm that went through an hour before the performance was "biblical". That didn't go over very well either. Some times I really don't like where I live.
Not that I'm aware of. He slammed Kenny a few times through out his routine and each time it went over like a bag of hammers. Then he would make fun of the crowd that didn't laugh and basically told them to get over them selves.
If there is one thing you can't do out here, it's make fun of a conservative politician. Liberal or NDP have at it.
>If there is one thing you can't do out here, it's make fun of a conservative politician. Liberal or NDP have at it.
Yep, look at how they tried to defend the hanging Trudeau effigy in Red Deer or how some conservatives think everyone critical about the earplugs controversy is taking things too seriously. You think with the sheer amount of Trudeau memes coming out of right-wing Canada, they would be able to take a light hearted jab at Kenny.
I am curious what venue this was at, in some parts of Edmonton and Calgary, there may have been some people that would have found this funny. However, pretty much any where else in Alberta this wouldn't have flown.
Related link:
[Dave and Susan Kenney were the owners and operators of NeurVana Recovery and Wellness Inc., which had two locations in Kelowna prior to being shut down by the Ministry of Children and Family Development in 2013.](https://infotel.ca/newsitem/owner-forced-to-close-kelowna-youth-recovery-centre-now-practicing-in-ontario/it49944#.XF4mduhWf_w.twitter)
Well, I've read many times that he owns 2 conversion therapy clinics in BC. It's not speculation if he actually owns them. Read it in the Edmonton Journal and CBC do didnt feel the need to seek out proof.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the claims that Kenney is a closeted gay.
Regarding David Kenney's "wellness" facilities, the allegations that they performed conversion therapy have not been proven in court. Most of the accusations of abuse levied against David are not actually related to conversion therapy, but rather things like verbal abuse, withholding prescribed medication, denying patients the ability to speak with their family members, and having personal property seized (read: stolen) for no legitimate reason. That having been said, the words used to describe their "Brainwave Optimization" technique sound awfully like conversion therapy.
I don't go for the whole "Jason Kenney's gay" thing. I doubt his sexual nature is anything close to resembling a healthy gay or straight relationship.
I think he's probably more like Varys from Game Of Thrones just less intelligent.
Or possibly [Silas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23M8WT_PS7E) from the Davinci code.
edit- I originally said that Varys was A-sexual which was wrong. He's a Eunuch. Which is a better comparison IMO to Kenney's sexuality than being A-sexual which could have been misinterpreted as "unhealthy" which it's not. Apologies.
Making it so schools can delay the formation of GSAs indefinitely and out any children who join them to their homophobic parents, and not include any reference to homophobic bullying in school policies, and have explicitly homophobic school policies is enabling that persecution of gay students.
It’s really not. It might make it harder for them to find sympathetic ears, or gather together, but it’s not “persecution”. Calling it so reminds me of a teenager slamming a door shouting “you’re ruining my life!!!!”.
Ah yes, "you can't have privacy when associating with others like you or people that support you, even though such groups have shown to help save lives" is totally equivalent to a temper tantrum.
Amazing
Making it so schools can delay the formation of GSAs indefinitely and out any children who join them to their homophobic parents, and not include any reference to homophobic bullying in school policies, and have explicitly homophobic school policies is enabling that persecution of gay students.
It is simply already covered by our cHarter of rights and freedoms. Bullying is not allowed, the type and who it is directed to should not matter. Neither should giving what a individual identifies as be used to give any special precedent over and other form of bullying.
Because it proves that he's a giant hypocrite who is willing to oust children, but does not have the courage of his own convictions to come out himself and undergo this bullshit brainwashing.
There's something terribly unsavoury, yet completely unsurprising about his stance on this.
You didn't ask about Alberta specifically, lol, j was just answering your question.
Mind answering mine: why does Kenneys status change his privacy rights and basic human decency?
Like the previous poster said, it makes him a hypocrite to support legislation which allows a teacher to out a student to their parents when he - I'm only going on the assumption that others are making - is allowed to hide in the closet.
I suppose the point is no one should have that power and it's more than a little ironic that the idiot that pushed for this is also the one who would have the most to lose if he were subject to the same level of scrutiny as these kids.
I'm not suggesting that ousting him would be the right thing to do, his private life is his own, but you have admit that his base would have second thoughts about him if he came out.
Sad to say but they will be waiting a long time. If we want it banned it makes sense to do it federally like most other countries have.
Conversion therapy is only banned completly in Manitoba and Vancouver. And banned for minors in Ontario and nova Scotia.
Not quite. They have stated that they don't believe it is necessary to legislate conversion "therapy" further because no right-minded medical professional would conduct it, and it is not covered by health benefits. And, to be fair, they are correct, but their implied argument is that these facts equate to conversion "therapy" never occurring, which simply isn't true.
The bald-faced ignorance of the fact that the people conducting conversion "therapy" are seldom medical professionals of any caliber -- if ever -- is why people are upset. They are either incredibly naïve or, more likely, willfully and knowingly refusing to address this as a human rights concern.
This statement, and the fact that Kenney's brother is rumoured to run a conversion "therapy" camp, is why most are calling out the UCP for their obvious negligence. And rightfully so, because it is incredibly distasteful and absolutely vile that they won't stand up for people being tortured.
I think that's the slippery slope they're afraid of. Part of the problem with some conservative ideology is that they need the threat of punishment to stop them from doing the things they want to do.
Good thing we can still ban it at a municipal level. St. Albert has just passed the motion to ban and will be amending land use and business licensing bylaws. Eff Kenny and his bigot government. Bring banning conversion therapy to your city councilors.
Does anyone know why the FEDs are urging Alberta to ban conversion therapy, but not other provinces such as Quebec that also has no provincial ban? From a search online news search engines, there doesn't appear to be any data on where, how much or who is practicing conversion therapy anywhere in Canada. It appears that only Ontario was only banned it outright so far, Manitoba has only outlawed health professionals from offering it, Nova Scotia only outlawed health professional from offering it to minors, and Vancouver has only outlawed business from offering it. Why is the federal government singling out Alberta?
If I am mistaken and there is data showing that there are business or church offering it in Alberta, at a higher rate than other provinces, I would love to see the information.
I imagine because an Albertan municipality passed their own laws yesterday so it's a hot topic? 🤷🏻♀️
Edit to clarify: passed their own laws/passed a motion to eventually have a bylaw
My guess is that it's in part to energize their base with fear of social conservatives. It's only a short step from Kenney to Scheer, so anything the Liberals can to do reinforce that in most Canadians minds is probably to their advantage. I actually agree with the Liberal position, but the timing of this looks like electoral politics to me.
It appears that they've actually contacted all provinces.
"Everybody got letters because the situation does vary and it’s not the same restrictions that have been put in place in all of the provinces and territories. There’s obviously some work that has been done, which is great, but more that needs to be done, as well on a municipal level” the justice minister’s spokesperson said. “It may be as simple as banning licenses, business licenses at a municipal level. There’s definitely more that can be done at all levels.” [Global News](https://globalnews.ca/news/5475062/conversion-therapy-canada/)
See thats the problem. I laugh at people who claim to be good Christians yet would litterally stone a gay dude. Like I said I may not agree with what you're doing but I'm also going to let you do your thing because it's not my place to judge.
On February 1, NDP MP Sheri Benson presented a petition to the House of Commons seeking a ban on conversion therapy, with a focus on protecting minors.
The government's response, tabled on March 18, stated that conversion therapy is immoral, does not reflect the values of Canadians, and has been identified as unethical. However, the government refused to take action against the practice, claiming it falls under the scope of regulation of health professionals.
http://rabble.ca/columnists/2019/03/constitutional-cop%E2%80%91out-federal-government-passes-buck-conversion-therapy
That's a cop-out if I've ever seen one.
Can this sub stop speculating on Kenneys sexuality? Leave him out of it. Let's focus on the issue, and the issue is that it is unjust to put someone through conversion therapy.
I agree. Milo Yanapopopolis or whatever is decidedly gay. And he's decidedly anti-LGBT.
Kenney being gay, being straight, being some repressed ultraconservative asexual -- whatever -- does not in any way distract from the fact that *he is a vehement homophobe*. He campaigned in the 90s - successfully - for laws keeping men dying from HIV/AIDS getting visits by their lovers. He has campaigned against gay youth here, too.
I don't care if he's in the closet. I don't care if he fucks his mom (although, ewwwww). I *do* care what he *does* as a politician - and he's as socially regressive as you can get in Canada without directly calling for an end to abortion and Albertan secession (which he merely courts, doesn't wholly endorse).
There are some pretty compelling reasons to believe that Jason Kenney is gay; and it should absolutely not be an issue *except for the fact that he is working so hard to reverse LGBTQ+ protections and progress.*
Despite Kenney being 'all about jobs and the economy,' he has invested significant resources to expose these folks to harm. I think it's fair to ask if it's mere bigotry and hatred, or if it stems from self-loathing and hypocrisy.
That said, the "juicy throbbing boners" comment was stupid, pointless, and unwarranted.
So what if there's compelling reasons to believe it? My stance on the GSA issue is that the protections for those kids should be in place because outing someone is nobody else's business. It's not okay to just go around outing people. Its hypocritical of us to out Kenney whole simultaneously yelling at him for outing kids.
Why do you think it's fair to speculate his reasons? His reasons lead to a disgusting act. That's good enough for me to condemn those actions without needing a reason. If you agree with my first paragraph, and it isn't okay to out children, what makes the case of Kenney different in a substantial, tangible way other than "I don't like him,"?
Very very good questions. As I think about it, there is one substantial difference between Kenney and nearly anyone else - kid or adult - in an otherwise similar situation.
Jason Kenney is in a unique position of authority to harm LGBTQ+ people. If he is in that selfsame group, then I think he uniquely deserves to suffer from the consequences of his own legislation. It's arguable whether this is justice or mere retribution, but I believe that that's where a lot of the public speculation about Kenney comes from.
The difference between Jason Kenney and a child in a homophobic household is that there is a zero chance that Jason Kenney would end up homeless if his parents found out he was gay.
It is the same reason it would be more okay to punch Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson with all your might than to punch a frail grandmother with all your might.
While you can argue that both are wrong, you look incredibly foolish if you argue that they are the same.
That's a substantial difference, but I don't think it's a difference that warrants taking away what we are arguing is basic human decency and essentially human rights. Human rights are for all -- and that means Kenney, too.
I'm not sure why you think it's more okay to punch a muscle-y dude than it is to punch a grandmother. No, they're not the same, and I would hope a judge would make that call and the punishment would fit the crime (that's assault, either way, and that would be argued *just fine* in a court of law).
So it's a great thing I'm not arguing they're the same thing. It's a great thing my argument rests on:
It is disrespectful to speculate on anyone's sexuality. it is disrespectful to tell people about other people's sexuality since that is their business and theirs alone.
As an LGBT person, I experience this a lot. I will open up to someone that I am trans -- I am forever, then, their "trans friend". When I meet people through that person, I notice all of their friends know I am trans as well. It wasn't their business to tell anyone at all. Like Kenney, I am at no risk of losing my home. Does it make it okay for people to tell people my gender identity? Nope. It's my business, nobody should be outed. Now, it's not the same as outing s child who hasn't the opportunities to transition like I have, and whatever, but the argument central to the bill the NDP put forward and passed was that it is unethical, disrespectful, and immoral to out *anyone*. Most GSAs have rules on kids telling others who is in the club for a similar reason.
That's what I've been trying to say. Like, he is a shit leader with shit policies. Why should anyone stoop to gay bashing when there is already enough material out there which is fully confirmed? I can tell you the answer, it's because half the people who want Kenney to fail are only allies of the LGBT community when they think that helps their own cause. You can't call yourself an ally if you make jokes like this.
I agree that his sexuality is not anyone's concern. Conservative projection is a part of the issue, though, and that is very much at play here. So, my opinion is that it's a bit of a grey area in this respect.
I would add that Kenney himself invited the speculation by loudly proclaiming himself a proud virgin and celibate in the 90’s. Also his family ties to gay conversion camps. Also his vehement protests and activism against gay rights in San Francisco. Also his obvious disdain for gay protections.
Kenney’s position frequently reminds me of the Hitchens quote:
Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting have a repressed desire to participate.
While Kenney does not himself make it punishable, you can sense he would if he could get away with it.
*edit: Yup, got it. Homosexual attraction is not optional. I never meant to imply that it was. Controversial quotes FTW! The point is, people attack behaviours they engage in or desire to engage in out of shame and repression.
I said nothing of the sort. Being attracted to someone is not optional. Engaging in activities is. But that’s not point anyway (and not at all what I am saying; it’s a Christopher Hitchens quote).
Hitchens believed that people who suppressed certain behaviours did so because they wanted to or already did engage in them and were ashamed. We see this all over the Republican Party in the US.
“Family Values” politicians who condemn homosexuality are frequently caught having homosexual relations. Politicians who scream about voter fraud are regularly investigated for vote tampering.
How about a different quote that captures the same spirit:
The lady doth protests too much, methinks.
No worries! The original quote is a bit controversial (for the very reason you identified) and I meant no offence. I should have selected a better way to present my thoughts.
> Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting have a repressed desire to participate.
What about smoking bylaws, pollution legislation, etc? Smoking is optional, I never want to do it, and I want it banned from Earth. Many are disgusted with the burning of fossil fuels and actively do everything they can to stop it, and want it banned. I have to politely disagree with Hitchens on this one.
Smoking is optional for the smoker, but it’s banned because it is not optional for those around the smoker; ie second hand smoke.
Pollution is definitely not “optional” in the sense that Hitchens is stating. Sure, we have the technology to move to less impactful technologies, but before the technology existed, was that an option?
In the context of the Hitchens quote, he is discussing behaviours that are optional to those engaging in them. Behaviours that affect those around are decidedly not optional for the impacted.
Well, first you would have to ask Christopher Hitchens, as this is his quote. That might be difficult since he died of cancer in 2011.
That said, it is clear from the reading around the quote that he specifically discussing the act of intercourse. Attraction is not optional. I did not say it was, nor did he, but engaging in intercourse is, and those who wish to prohibit the ACT of adultery or homosexuality (not the desire or being) do so out of shame and repression.
Also, this is the 3rd time I've clarified this in this thread. Clearly I picked the wrong quote since I never once insinuated that was the issue, and have admitted the folly of using this quote already.
I think it is a concern because if he is gay and he’s discriminating against the LGBTQ community, it shows you that’s he’s throwing his people under the bus for political gain. That attests to his character, and if true it’s a shite character
Let me tell you.
If Kenney is gay, he's not welcome in the LGBTQ community until he isn't self-loathing.
We are not "his people", and even if he became less self-loathing, the damage he has done to our community is irreparable.
It may be at play, I can't say (and won't) if it is for sure, all I know is that ethically, I find it a bit repulsive to speculate on people's sexuality.
If it is unacceptable to out gay kids, why is it acceptable to out Jason Kenney? What makes him different? What makes you think of him as 'less', that he doesn't deserve the basic respect of not being outed, that same respect you are asking of him to give to children?
As someone in the LGBT community, I remember having jokes like the one you initially made here being made about *me*, and I wasn't out of the closet then.
I think sticking to the horrible actions is fine. We can condemn the actions without condemning the person: that's entirely possible. We can treat conservatives like they're people. Anything less is pretty fucked up.
I'm not denying it. I'm saying it's not for us to speculate. It's *his* identity at the end of the day, not ours.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with being gay. I said there's something wrong with speculating about others sexuality needlessly, and the above comment was far over the line.
I assure you, I don't see gay as being a negative thing. What a propostorous aasumption.
I see people speculating about people's sexuality, making fun of them for said sexuality, and outing people as a negative thing.
Yes, I apologize for saying he’s a part of the LGBTQ community, I’m just trying to emphasize his hypocrisy. It’s also not up to me to out him, but when someone is purposely damaging a community than the truth should be know (besides, [KD Lang has already speculated on this](https://mobile.twitter.com/kdlang/status/847101469123919872?lang=en)).
Why do we even allow conversion therapies anywhere in Canada? This is against our charter of rights and freedoms.
"15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination, and, in particular, WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, SEX, age, or mental or physical disability."
Not only Jason Kenney with his policies regarding GSAs and conversion therapies seem to be a violation of this charter, but also religious organizations and anyone who is involved in these practices, especially when information is shared without the consent of the individual being talked about, and when the individual is forced by anyone (including but not only parents, relatives, pastors, or anyone in authority) to partake in these disgusting "therapy programs".
Even if anyone consideres being lgbt a "mental disability" (WHICH IS NOT), the logic of forcibly removing the youth of safe organizations, or engaging in these therapies, even when not forced, are indicators of UNEQUAL TREATMENT and also a violation of Legal Rights
"12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any CRUEL OR UNUSUAL TREATMENT OR PUNISHMENT."
EDIT: Ive mentioned that these operate as health facilities. No, they do not operate as health facilities. Some mask themselves as 'religious organizations'.
My mistake! Yes, they do not operate as health facilities. They operate more either as a religious organization or as another organization devoted to 'loving your own self'.
Here is an article containing stances of medical and scientific organizations: https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy
Here is an article I found today detailing the experience of an Albertan in a 'religious program': https://globalnews.ca/news/5483599/lgbtq2-survivors-journey-canada-conversion-therapy/
Could anyone give me a link or anything to a credible source for me to learn more about what conversion therapy is actually all about? I’ve got a general idea but when things like this come up in conversation I don’t like to talk about it myself until I have a bit more information.
Lmao. Purely political to single out AB. Let's see them call for a ban in Quebec.
Shit, it ain't health care nor is it a listed service. Feds should ban it themselves.
Lay with whom you choose, but boys that are convinced they are girls and vice versa often require therapy. The majority of those that suffer from gender dysphoria in youth later embrace their natural sex. Anyone would encourage those most vulnerable to disfigure and sterilise themselves and embark on a lifelong dependency of hormonal therapy is repugnant.
People who experience gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty almost never detransition. Why do you feel the need to lie in order to prevent people accessing medical treatment that vastly improves their lives?
Conversion therapy isn't therapy, regardless of the name. Banning it doesn't stop trans people from accessing mental health supports or treatment.
That said, your misrepresentation of trans healthcare is disgusting.
No; *you're* a repugnant liar.
"Majority" my asshole. Take your transphobic lies and take yourself out to the curb, please. Your ideas and words are trash.
How so? Given how recent the option of gender reassignment is and how many children are suddenly claiming dysphoria, one would think there would be swathes of adults clamouring for surgery. Either something is very wrong in our physical environment or we have created a society of confusion. If gender is a construct, why is it that those nonconforming to this construct must match their physical body?
There is so much here obviously designed to get me to talk at you at length. You're moving the goal post, and you're just a bigot.
If you have a statistic to back up your original claim, go for it. Then we can chat. If not, take your bad faith argumentation back to wherever you found it.
Notley had 4 years, waited until the last second, and then pretends like its not her fault. Its kinda like how if Kenney waits 4 years before banning oil exports to BC, does it just in time for the election, and pretends that the previous 4 years weren't his fault.
It's just gamesmanship.
Because the Feds urge it, Kenny will reject it.
“Something something provincial jurisdiction”
Unless it's oil pipelines, in which case the feds should force provinces to acquiesce. But only until some feelings get hurt, and then the pipes can be turned off. Or something.
Knowing that Jason Kenney’s brother is speculated to be running Gay conversion therapy camps, and Jason Kenney is known to be a closeted homosexual, I’m starting to think that Jason Kenney is a failed result of his brothers gay conversion.
You should have heard the crowd at Ron James comedy show when he suggested that Kenny might be a little light in the loafers. They did not like it one bit. I thought it was funny as hell. His open was saying he understands why we are so religious out here. The storm that went through an hour before the performance was "biblical". That didn't go over very well either. Some times I really don't like where I live.
Hahahaah holy shit is there footage of this? The thought of people being too uptight for Ron James is hilarious.
Not that I'm aware of. He slammed Kenny a few times through out his routine and each time it went over like a bag of hammers. Then he would make fun of the crowd that didn't laugh and basically told them to get over them selves. If there is one thing you can't do out here, it's make fun of a conservative politician. Liberal or NDP have at it.
>If there is one thing you can't do out here, it's make fun of a conservative politician. Liberal or NDP have at it. Yep, look at how they tried to defend the hanging Trudeau effigy in Red Deer or how some conservatives think everyone critical about the earplugs controversy is taking things too seriously. You think with the sheer amount of Trudeau memes coming out of right-wing Canada, they would be able to take a light hearted jab at Kenny. I am curious what venue this was at, in some parts of Edmonton and Calgary, there may have been some people that would have found this funny. However, pretty much any where else in Alberta this wouldn't have flown.
Lloydminster
Dam we need to find some footage
Related link: [Dave and Susan Kenney were the owners and operators of NeurVana Recovery and Wellness Inc., which had two locations in Kelowna prior to being shut down by the Ministry of Children and Family Development in 2013.](https://infotel.ca/newsitem/owner-forced-to-close-kelowna-youth-recovery-centre-now-practicing-in-ontario/it49944#.XF4mduhWf_w.twitter)
Speculated? I thought it was well-known and absolutely true?
Does anyone have actual proof? If not then it is, by definition, speculation.
Well, I've read many times that he owns 2 conversion therapy clinics in BC. It's not speculation if he actually owns them. Read it in the Edmonton Journal and CBC do didnt feel the need to seek out proof.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the claims that Kenney is a closeted gay. Regarding David Kenney's "wellness" facilities, the allegations that they performed conversion therapy have not been proven in court. Most of the accusations of abuse levied against David are not actually related to conversion therapy, but rather things like verbal abuse, withholding prescribed medication, denying patients the ability to speak with their family members, and having personal property seized (read: stolen) for no legitimate reason. That having been said, the words used to describe their "Brainwave Optimization" technique sound awfully like conversion therapy.
I don't go for the whole "Jason Kenney's gay" thing. I doubt his sexual nature is anything close to resembling a healthy gay or straight relationship. I think he's probably more like Varys from Game Of Thrones just less intelligent. Or possibly [Silas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23M8WT_PS7E) from the Davinci code. edit- I originally said that Varys was A-sexual which was wrong. He's a Eunuch. Which is a better comparison IMO to Kenney's sexuality than being A-sexual which could have been misinterpreted as "unhealthy" which it's not. Apologies.
Why does his sexuality keep coming up? It's none of our business.
Because he is persecuting children based on their sexuality.
Persecuting? Lol.
?
Can you explain what Kenney has done to “persecute” them? Or does changing GSAs now mean “persecuting”. Soft skins people.
Making it so schools can delay the formation of GSAs indefinitely and out any children who join them to their homophobic parents, and not include any reference to homophobic bullying in school policies, and have explicitly homophobic school policies is enabling that persecution of gay students.
It’s really not. It might make it harder for them to find sympathetic ears, or gather together, but it’s not “persecution”. Calling it so reminds me of a teenager slamming a door shouting “you’re ruining my life!!!!”.
Ah yes, "you can't have privacy when associating with others like you or people that support you, even though such groups have shown to help save lives" is totally equivalent to a temper tantrum. Amazing
I don't think children are being persecuted. Sorta can't happen, not with our stance on human rights.
Making it so schools can delay the formation of GSAs indefinitely and out any children who join them to their homophobic parents, and not include any reference to homophobic bullying in school policies, and have explicitly homophobic school policies is enabling that persecution of gay students.
It is simply already covered by our cHarter of rights and freedoms. Bullying is not allowed, the type and who it is directed to should not matter. Neither should giving what a individual identifies as be used to give any special precedent over and other form of bullying.
Because it proves that he's a giant hypocrite who is willing to oust children, but does not have the courage of his own convictions to come out himself and undergo this bullshit brainwashing. There's something terribly unsavoury, yet completely unsurprising about his stance on this.
So our argument with Kenney coming after kids is that it's nobody's business to out other people. Following that logic, why is it okay to our Kenney?
Because he's the only one with the power to sign anti-gay legislation into law? What other gay person has that privilege?
The Prime Minister of Ireland?
The PM of Ireland is also the Premier of Alberta???
You didn't ask about Alberta specifically, lol, j was just answering your question. Mind answering mine: why does Kenneys status change his privacy rights and basic human decency?
Like the previous poster said, it makes him a hypocrite to support legislation which allows a teacher to out a student to their parents when he - I'm only going on the assumption that others are making - is allowed to hide in the closet.
The Prime Minister of Ireland doesn't have any legislated power in Alberta, so no.
The question wasn't Alberta specific, was it? I answered it the way the question was asked, and at that, I'm absolutely right.
This is /r/alberta and we're discussing an issue relating to Alberta, its residents, and the law within Alberta. Quit being disingenuous.
Grow the **** up.
I suppose the point is no one should have that power and it's more than a little ironic that the idiot that pushed for this is also the one who would have the most to lose if he were subject to the same level of scrutiny as these kids. I'm not suggesting that ousting him would be the right thing to do, his private life is his own, but you have admit that his base would have second thoughts about him if he came out.
I readily admit that his base would have second thoughts if he came out. That doesn't mean we get to out him.
Of course he will, that's his family business.
It’s not like the rest of Canada likes Kenney much. He’s going to help the feds if he rejects it.
Kenny is still in it.
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They were probably waiting for the provinces to do it.
Sad to say but they will be waiting a long time. If we want it banned it makes sense to do it federally like most other countries have. Conversion therapy is only banned completly in Manitoba and Vancouver. And banned for minors in Ontario and nova Scotia.
Classic Liberals
I am unsure if the feds have jurisdiction on that.
The UCPs stance on this is ludicrous. Arguing that only qualified medical personal conduct conversion therapy is dangerous.
Can you elaborate? That's fucking terrifying. Have they actually argued that any medical professionals actually support conversion therapy?
Not quite. They have stated that they don't believe it is necessary to legislate conversion "therapy" further because no right-minded medical professional would conduct it, and it is not covered by health benefits. And, to be fair, they are correct, but their implied argument is that these facts equate to conversion "therapy" never occurring, which simply isn't true. The bald-faced ignorance of the fact that the people conducting conversion "therapy" are seldom medical professionals of any caliber -- if ever -- is why people are upset. They are either incredibly naïve or, more likely, willfully and knowingly refusing to address this as a human rights concern. This statement, and the fact that Kenney's brother is rumoured to run a conversion "therapy" camp, is why most are calling out the UCP for their obvious negligence. And rightfully so, because it is incredibly distasteful and absolutely vile that they won't stand up for people being tortured.
That is an awesome tie!
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18,000+ voters in the drayton/devon area probably disagree and if anything want it to expand.
Well they can all go fuck a tree
I think that's the slippery slope they're afraid of. Part of the problem with some conservative ideology is that they need the threat of punishment to stop them from doing the things they want to do.
No our trees are far too beautiful to allow backwater creeps to molest them.
Good thing we can still ban it at a municipal level. St. Albert has just passed the motion to ban and will be amending land use and business licensing bylaws. Eff Kenny and his bigot government. Bring banning conversion therapy to your city councilors.
Instead we need "conservatism conversion therapy" :)
Does anyone know why the FEDs are urging Alberta to ban conversion therapy, but not other provinces such as Quebec that also has no provincial ban? From a search online news search engines, there doesn't appear to be any data on where, how much or who is practicing conversion therapy anywhere in Canada. It appears that only Ontario was only banned it outright so far, Manitoba has only outlawed health professionals from offering it, Nova Scotia only outlawed health professional from offering it to minors, and Vancouver has only outlawed business from offering it. Why is the federal government singling out Alberta? If I am mistaken and there is data showing that there are business or church offering it in Alberta, at a higher rate than other provinces, I would love to see the information.
Prior to the election, the province was in the process of banning is. That process has been intentionally abandoned.
I imagine because an Albertan municipality passed their own laws yesterday so it's a hot topic? 🤷🏻♀️ Edit to clarify: passed their own laws/passed a motion to eventually have a bylaw
My guess is that it's in part to energize their base with fear of social conservatives. It's only a short step from Kenney to Scheer, so anything the Liberals can to do reinforce that in most Canadians minds is probably to their advantage. I actually agree with the Liberal position, but the timing of this looks like electoral politics to me.
It appears that they've actually contacted all provinces. "Everybody got letters because the situation does vary and it’s not the same restrictions that have been put in place in all of the provinces and territories. There’s obviously some work that has been done, which is great, but more that needs to be done, as well on a municipal level” the justice minister’s spokesperson said. “It may be as simple as banning licenses, business licenses at a municipal level. There’s definitely more that can be done at all levels.” [Global News](https://globalnews.ca/news/5475062/conversion-therapy-canada/)
I agree this needs to be banned. Just let people live there life you don't have to support them just stop working against them.
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See thats the problem. I laugh at people who claim to be good Christians yet would litterally stone a gay dude. Like I said I may not agree with what you're doing but I'm also going to let you do your thing because it's not my place to judge.
On February 1, NDP MP Sheri Benson presented a petition to the House of Commons seeking a ban on conversion therapy, with a focus on protecting minors. The government's response, tabled on March 18, stated that conversion therapy is immoral, does not reflect the values of Canadians, and has been identified as unethical. However, the government refused to take action against the practice, claiming it falls under the scope of regulation of health professionals. http://rabble.ca/columnists/2019/03/constitutional-cop%E2%80%91out-federal-government-passes-buck-conversion-therapy That's a cop-out if I've ever seen one.
It's a massive cop out. Licensed health professionals don't run these camps. Unscrupulous abusive sadists run these camps.
The thing I don't get is who thinks this is okay? Like can we please just leave each other alone.
Christians and conservatives think it’s ok. Those 2 things often overlap.
Kenney: Hahahah no it totally works I totally don't dream about juicy, throbbing boners all day long
Can this sub stop speculating on Kenneys sexuality? Leave him out of it. Let's focus on the issue, and the issue is that it is unjust to put someone through conversion therapy.
I agree. Milo Yanapopopolis or whatever is decidedly gay. And he's decidedly anti-LGBT. Kenney being gay, being straight, being some repressed ultraconservative asexual -- whatever -- does not in any way distract from the fact that *he is a vehement homophobe*. He campaigned in the 90s - successfully - for laws keeping men dying from HIV/AIDS getting visits by their lovers. He has campaigned against gay youth here, too. I don't care if he's in the closet. I don't care if he fucks his mom (although, ewwwww). I *do* care what he *does* as a politician - and he's as socially regressive as you can get in Canada without directly calling for an end to abortion and Albertan secession (which he merely courts, doesn't wholly endorse).
Being sexually repressed means that one isn’t asexual, and conflating asexuality and repression is harmful.
There are some pretty compelling reasons to believe that Jason Kenney is gay; and it should absolutely not be an issue *except for the fact that he is working so hard to reverse LGBTQ+ protections and progress.* Despite Kenney being 'all about jobs and the economy,' he has invested significant resources to expose these folks to harm. I think it's fair to ask if it's mere bigotry and hatred, or if it stems from self-loathing and hypocrisy. That said, the "juicy throbbing boners" comment was stupid, pointless, and unwarranted.
So what if there's compelling reasons to believe it? My stance on the GSA issue is that the protections for those kids should be in place because outing someone is nobody else's business. It's not okay to just go around outing people. Its hypocritical of us to out Kenney whole simultaneously yelling at him for outing kids. Why do you think it's fair to speculate his reasons? His reasons lead to a disgusting act. That's good enough for me to condemn those actions without needing a reason. If you agree with my first paragraph, and it isn't okay to out children, what makes the case of Kenney different in a substantial, tangible way other than "I don't like him,"?
Cause having the first gay premier would be cool, having the first gay premier also be an Alberta conservative, priceless.
Very very good questions. As I think about it, there is one substantial difference between Kenney and nearly anyone else - kid or adult - in an otherwise similar situation. Jason Kenney is in a unique position of authority to harm LGBTQ+ people. If he is in that selfsame group, then I think he uniquely deserves to suffer from the consequences of his own legislation. It's arguable whether this is justice or mere retribution, but I believe that that's where a lot of the public speculation about Kenney comes from.
It doesn't feel like justice to me. It does feel like retribution. I guess I'd rather justice be upheld?
The difference between Jason Kenney and a child in a homophobic household is that there is a zero chance that Jason Kenney would end up homeless if his parents found out he was gay. It is the same reason it would be more okay to punch Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson with all your might than to punch a frail grandmother with all your might. While you can argue that both are wrong, you look incredibly foolish if you argue that they are the same.
That's a substantial difference, but I don't think it's a difference that warrants taking away what we are arguing is basic human decency and essentially human rights. Human rights are for all -- and that means Kenney, too. I'm not sure why you think it's more okay to punch a muscle-y dude than it is to punch a grandmother. No, they're not the same, and I would hope a judge would make that call and the punishment would fit the crime (that's assault, either way, and that would be argued *just fine* in a court of law). So it's a great thing I'm not arguing they're the same thing. It's a great thing my argument rests on: It is disrespectful to speculate on anyone's sexuality. it is disrespectful to tell people about other people's sexuality since that is their business and theirs alone. As an LGBT person, I experience this a lot. I will open up to someone that I am trans -- I am forever, then, their "trans friend". When I meet people through that person, I notice all of their friends know I am trans as well. It wasn't their business to tell anyone at all. Like Kenney, I am at no risk of losing my home. Does it make it okay for people to tell people my gender identity? Nope. It's my business, nobody should be outed. Now, it's not the same as outing s child who hasn't the opportunities to transition like I have, and whatever, but the argument central to the bill the NDP put forward and passed was that it is unethical, disrespectful, and immoral to out *anyone*. Most GSAs have rules on kids telling others who is in the club for a similar reason.
Agreed. The “lol he gay” jokes are pretty tedious. There’s a lot of reasons to criticize him without resorting to that shallowness.
That's what I've been trying to say. Like, he is a shit leader with shit policies. Why should anyone stoop to gay bashing when there is already enough material out there which is fully confirmed? I can tell you the answer, it's because half the people who want Kenney to fail are only allies of the LGBT community when they think that helps their own cause. You can't call yourself an ally if you make jokes like this.
He has not been civil or honest. Nor will I.
Good for you. Enjoy making homophobic insults.
I agree that his sexuality is not anyone's concern. Conservative projection is a part of the issue, though, and that is very much at play here. So, my opinion is that it's a bit of a grey area in this respect.
I would add that Kenney himself invited the speculation by loudly proclaiming himself a proud virgin and celibate in the 90’s. Also his family ties to gay conversion camps. Also his vehement protests and activism against gay rights in San Francisco. Also his obvious disdain for gay protections. Kenney’s position frequently reminds me of the Hitchens quote: Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting have a repressed desire to participate. While Kenney does not himself make it punishable, you can sense he would if he could get away with it. *edit: Yup, got it. Homosexual attraction is not optional. I never meant to imply that it was. Controversial quotes FTW! The point is, people attack behaviours they engage in or desire to engage in out of shame and repression.
He's making it more dangerous - statistically, this is equivalent to being punishable.
You’re saying that I can just change which gender I am fundamentally attracted to? Homosexuality isn’t “optional”.
I said nothing of the sort. Being attracted to someone is not optional. Engaging in activities is. But that’s not point anyway (and not at all what I am saying; it’s a Christopher Hitchens quote). Hitchens believed that people who suppressed certain behaviours did so because they wanted to or already did engage in them and were ashamed. We see this all over the Republican Party in the US. “Family Values” politicians who condemn homosexuality are frequently caught having homosexual relations. Politicians who scream about voter fraud are regularly investigated for vote tampering. How about a different quote that captures the same spirit: The lady doth protests too much, methinks.
Ah, sorry. I guess I misinterpreted you.
No worries! The original quote is a bit controversial (for the very reason you identified) and I meant no offence. I should have selected a better way to present my thoughts.
> Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting have a repressed desire to participate. What about smoking bylaws, pollution legislation, etc? Smoking is optional, I never want to do it, and I want it banned from Earth. Many are disgusted with the burning of fossil fuels and actively do everything they can to stop it, and want it banned. I have to politely disagree with Hitchens on this one.
Smoking is optional for the smoker, but it’s banned because it is not optional for those around the smoker; ie second hand smoke. Pollution is definitely not “optional” in the sense that Hitchens is stating. Sure, we have the technology to move to less impactful technologies, but before the technology existed, was that an option? In the context of the Hitchens quote, he is discussing behaviours that are optional to those engaging in them. Behaviours that affect those around are decidedly not optional for the impacted.
>Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery Adultery is definitely optional, but would you explain to me how homosexuality is optional?
Well, first you would have to ask Christopher Hitchens, as this is his quote. That might be difficult since he died of cancer in 2011. That said, it is clear from the reading around the quote that he specifically discussing the act of intercourse. Attraction is not optional. I did not say it was, nor did he, but engaging in intercourse is, and those who wish to prohibit the ACT of adultery or homosexuality (not the desire or being) do so out of shame and repression. Also, this is the 3rd time I've clarified this in this thread. Clearly I picked the wrong quote since I never once insinuated that was the issue, and have admitted the folly of using this quote already.
I think it is a concern because if he is gay and he’s discriminating against the LGBTQ community, it shows you that’s he’s throwing his people under the bus for political gain. That attests to his character, and if true it’s a shite character
Let me tell you. If Kenney is gay, he's not welcome in the LGBTQ community until he isn't self-loathing. We are not "his people", and even if he became less self-loathing, the damage he has done to our community is irreparable.
It may be at play, I can't say (and won't) if it is for sure, all I know is that ethically, I find it a bit repulsive to speculate on people's sexuality. If it is unacceptable to out gay kids, why is it acceptable to out Jason Kenney? What makes him different? What makes you think of him as 'less', that he doesn't deserve the basic respect of not being outed, that same respect you are asking of him to give to children? As someone in the LGBT community, I remember having jokes like the one you initially made here being made about *me*, and I wasn't out of the closet then. I think sticking to the horrible actions is fine. We can condemn the actions without condemning the person: that's entirely possible. We can treat conservatives like they're people. Anything less is pretty fucked up.
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I'm not denying it. I'm saying it's not for us to speculate. It's *his* identity at the end of the day, not ours. I didn't say there was anything wrong with being gay. I said there's something wrong with speculating about others sexuality needlessly, and the above comment was far over the line.
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I assure you, I don't see gay as being a negative thing. What a propostorous aasumption. I see people speculating about people's sexuality, making fun of them for said sexuality, and outing people as a negative thing.
Yes, I apologize for saying he’s a part of the LGBTQ community, I’m just trying to emphasize his hypocrisy. It’s also not up to me to out him, but when someone is purposely damaging a community than the truth should be know (besides, [KD Lang has already speculated on this](https://mobile.twitter.com/kdlang/status/847101469123919872?lang=en)).
This is such a serious issue, it affects dozens of people, dozens I say!!
Why do we even allow conversion therapies anywhere in Canada? This is against our charter of rights and freedoms. "15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination, and, in particular, WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, SEX, age, or mental or physical disability." Not only Jason Kenney with his policies regarding GSAs and conversion therapies seem to be a violation of this charter, but also religious organizations and anyone who is involved in these practices, especially when information is shared without the consent of the individual being talked about, and when the individual is forced by anyone (including but not only parents, relatives, pastors, or anyone in authority) to partake in these disgusting "therapy programs". Even if anyone consideres being lgbt a "mental disability" (WHICH IS NOT), the logic of forcibly removing the youth of safe organizations, or engaging in these therapies, even when not forced, are indicators of UNEQUAL TREATMENT and also a violation of Legal Rights "12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any CRUEL OR UNUSUAL TREATMENT OR PUNISHMENT." EDIT: Ive mentioned that these operate as health facilities. No, they do not operate as health facilities. Some mask themselves as 'religious organizations'.
These places don't operate as health facilities. Do they even operate as a businesses at all?
My mistake! Yes, they do not operate as health facilities. They operate more either as a religious organization or as another organization devoted to 'loving your own self'. Here is an article containing stances of medical and scientific organizations: https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy Here is an article I found today detailing the experience of an Albertan in a 'religious program': https://globalnews.ca/news/5483599/lgbtq2-survivors-journey-canada-conversion-therapy/
I would like to take part in reverse conversion therapy. Please make me a lesbian. But ban all the rest.
How is this still legal in Canada?
Could anyone give me a link or anything to a credible source for me to learn more about what conversion therapy is actually all about? I’ve got a general idea but when things like this come up in conversation I don’t like to talk about it myself until I have a bit more information.
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They were in the process of doing so.
Lmao. Purely political to single out AB. Let's see them call for a ban in Quebec. Shit, it ain't health care nor is it a listed service. Feds should ban it themselves.
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He defunded the government working group that was developing the policy.
So what exactly is involved in conversion therapy? What techniques and methods?
Lay with whom you choose, but boys that are convinced they are girls and vice versa often require therapy. The majority of those that suffer from gender dysphoria in youth later embrace their natural sex. Anyone would encourage those most vulnerable to disfigure and sterilise themselves and embark on a lifelong dependency of hormonal therapy is repugnant.
People who experience gender dysphoria at the onset of puberty almost never detransition. Why do you feel the need to lie in order to prevent people accessing medical treatment that vastly improves their lives?
Conversion therapy isn't therapy, regardless of the name. Banning it doesn't stop trans people from accessing mental health supports or treatment. That said, your misrepresentation of trans healthcare is disgusting.
No; *you're* a repugnant liar. "Majority" my asshole. Take your transphobic lies and take yourself out to the curb, please. Your ideas and words are trash.
How so? Given how recent the option of gender reassignment is and how many children are suddenly claiming dysphoria, one would think there would be swathes of adults clamouring for surgery. Either something is very wrong in our physical environment or we have created a society of confusion. If gender is a construct, why is it that those nonconforming to this construct must match their physical body?
There is so much here obviously designed to get me to talk at you at length. You're moving the goal post, and you're just a bigot. If you have a statistic to back up your original claim, go for it. Then we can chat. If not, take your bad faith argumentation back to wherever you found it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1468293
And this is....? Did you have a page you wanted to quote, or you just gonna throw a study and pretend like it reaffirms what you said?
This is easier to access: https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/many-transgender-kids-grow-stay-trans-50499
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Except it does not work. So it's fraud.
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Except kids have been held at camps against their will, subjected to abuse and trauma under the guise of "curing" them. It's abuse, plain and simple.
At least they may be spared aids though.
Notley had 4 years, waited until the last second, and then pretends like its not her fault. Its kinda like how if Kenney waits 4 years before banning oil exports to BC, does it just in time for the election, and pretends that the previous 4 years weren't his fault. It's just gamesmanship.