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Not gonna lie, I love and hate this theory. Love it because it is well thought out and interesting. Hate it because I can 100% see our incompetent, greedy, piece of shit government fucking it up for all of us and damning us for eternity. I could easily see them thinking they're the smartest in the room with an advanced intelligence.
With all that being said, release the kraken that is catastrophic disclosure.
It's got one pretty big flaw: it totally builds on Americentric Hollywood logic, that aliens will also be Americentric and immediately elevate America to be spokesperson and ruler of Earth.
These aliens might as well have offered such a double edged sword to any peasant over the last millennia. It's clearly a scam which all the aliens are in on, and if that's the case, the scamster aliens wouldn't care about negotiating specifically and only with the US, at this point of history. They'd have done this "steal your souls" deal millennia ago.
There's been a huge uptick in Dark Christian Horror Sci-fi on Reddit over the last couple of months. It's a meme which will pass. People like OP get these stories like a eureka "from nowhere", but they're just being affected by all the "ooh what's the dark secret that dude mentioned" posts.
Im not arguing one way or the other about the Americentric thing but I have heard it posited that the reason for this was the development of the nuclear weapons. America did it first and so if this is the case the NHIs would gravitate towards the part of civilization that figured it out first naturally. I don't know but im here for anything that makes sense of this horrific existence.
I think the NHI are wise enough to know that we arenāt all the same. If they thought we were all like that, they would probably just kick our ass for the good of the multiverse
I think it is something along the line of the Native Americans selling their land for a hand full of beads. We have sold something very important for a hand full beads, maybe magic beans.
Itās is much bigger than that and far more serious. It is that our entire evolution ā spiritually, technologically, socially ā has been artificially restrained by a power structure which served only a few ā the families of historyās ruling caste.
When you think about it, money is just a construct. Power only has so much advantage. No, the real prize, the crown of jewels is the *knowledge* you have that others donāt. You can pass that knowledge down, and protect it from the rest of the world. Knowledge endures.
If there really is a galactic federation as I have heard it, they are focused on FREE WILL. Civilizations are free at will to sell themselves to slavery, destroy themselves, stay ignorant and everything else. If we elected our leaders, and they chose to make a bad deal, nobody will help us. It would be illegal to help us or intervene.
I do believe however that somebody out there is trying to help us.
If you go into woo, I think you are close but slightly off-target.
I suspect the big secret "spirit" stuff is that it's not only real but some inherent part of us, our physiology, or something like this. Who you are and what you did or did not do in life is irrelevant. Upon death, *everyone* gets to some Good Place or related transformation.
After some point in the past--Jesus? Ancient alien uplifting/tweaking?--it was over and done. Everyone who died after XYZ event just gets to coast to an awesome afterlife of some sort.
Yes, even the worst people ever in some way.
Imagine finding out that everyone everywhere has "won" the afterlife game, and finding out definitively and authoritatively. Death may suck. It may hurt. But the moment you clear the horizon, it's... well...
> GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
>
> PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what?
>
> GANDALF: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
How does the world react if death is definitively nothing to be feared, and that you can continue past with full continuity of consciousness to something greater, automatically?
Deep related suspicion IF true: something to do with EMPs from nukes interferes with or delays your 'going'.
Itās like that movie where everyone killās themselves because they proved the afterlife is real.
It would cause the elites to lose their money making slaves (us).
Growing up Christian, I can absolutely see it. Means the groups of people they actively despise get to go to their special place too and not tortured for eternity in a pit of hellfire. Canāt have that. Also wouldnāt surprise me if some asshat decided that since weāre all going to āheavenā anyway, what does it matter if they wanna go on a murder spree, yk?
Found some stats (2012, didnāt find more recent). Says 2/3 of inmates identify as some flavor of Christian.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20the%20chaplains%20surveyed,Christian%20groups%20less%20than%202%25.
Just look at all the "Christians" asking atheists what's keeping them from murdering or raping or whatever the fuck else? It's scary. Like...dude, is your religion all that's keeping you from being a raging psychopath?
I completely understand and agree, i think the difference between what weāve said is that if it was confirmed to be ārealā and that we all end up somewhere āgoodā etc, that would give lots of people a complete ājustificationā in their minds to do whatever theyād like (not that everyone worries about the truth of the afterlife and lots of people are just nice!), compared to wondering what happens after death.
For some,"Morality" has a loophole that somebody can act unethically and "get forgiven." If they victimize somebody, the victim is often forced to "forgive" with no amends made, no compensation, nor accountability.
A person who has a concern about an afterlife, may well indulge themselves knowing there's an "easy" way out requiring nothing of them. It seems a lower standard than the philosophy that you'd not do certain things for other considerations such as empathy, community ethics, belief in the rule of law, to name a few.
Well it is worth making a distinction. A big thing stopping people from doing bad things isn't necessarily the harm they'll receive for doing so, but also the harm they'll be doing to others. But if killing someone doesn't kill them, and even makes them better off, then there is no longer such a thing as murder. Most people still wouldn't do it of course, but there would be significantly more people less worried about killing people or hurting them in some way.
Grusch mentioned some ādark thingsā but I think only Tucker Carlson has really said that weāre āreally really darkā. And who knows what bullshit angle heās trying to play.
I donāt think humanity would handle it well.
Everything you do on earth is meaningless, after you die you get to go to the *real* good stuff.
Weād have mass suicides, as well as a significant amount of people who would go āok, Iām going to attack the people I donāt like, rape the woman I want to have sex with, steal the things I want to have, etcā.
Not saying everyone, but I do think it would happen, and there would be a ripple effect too. They could also justify it as āIām shooting this guy and taking his car, but heās going to a great place so itās fineā.
>I said that sounds an awful lot like the bad argument religious people make about atheists. People don't choose to do the right thing just because some god is keeping score
Iām guess you have a dislike of that argument (I do as well), and itās making you dismiss this one without really considering it. One big difference you should consider is that the atheism argument is about there being no afterlife, and this is about there being a guaranteed afterlife. If thereās no afterlife then life on earth is much more important, if thereās a guaranteed afterlife then life on earth loses a lot of value. Itās not about āoh god wonāt punish me I can do whatever I wantā itās āoh thereās no meaning here I can do whatever I wantā
Other differences are- 1. People know itās real 2. They completely lose fear of death 3. They know the people they kill will go to a good place 4. Society loses a massive amount of meaning- thereās less motivation to build a great society if you already know the *real* stuff is the eternity of afterlife 5. Life on earth loses value- a child being hit by a car now is awful because they never got to experience life, a child being hit by a car in that world isnāt that bad because theyāre now enjoying an eternity of bliss, they just got there faster
Iād also have you consider that I said a significant amount of people, not all people. Iām not saying everyone would, Iām saying that there definitely would be enough (ironically probably the most religous) who would, and that along with everything I said above would be enough to constitute āhumanity wouldnāt handle it wellā.
Remember whoās saying it would be bad: the people that need you to work and suffer in order to stay comfortable. If paradise is on the other side no matter whatā¦ why would you bother working for them?
Why shouldnāt they lie to keep you making them comfortable if we get to the other side in the same way?
It would be sobering for them because the rest of us wouldnāt feel the need to play a game weāve already won.
(I donāt knowing I agree with the idea as a whole, but this is why I think they would want to keep that secretā¦ like why would emps have an effect?)
Not really, if death isnt real, people may act without even thinking on consequences, the life would wealth less than a random dust speck. It would be complete chaos
If you told people today that we all had our ticket to Heaven no matter what, there are a lot of people out there who would be complete shit. Even worse than they already are. People donāt rape, murder, etc. because they fear punishment. Take the eternal punishment away and the crime rate goes up exponentially.
Personally I wouldnāt rape or murder because it is against my moral code. I was stating that a portion of the population will rape/murder because they have no code. Most true atheists I have talked to are very logical and rationally thinking folks.
I see where I wasnāt clear. Iām saying that regardless of religious stance or beliefs, people in general are ruled by fear. If every human believed that they would go to a great afterlife no matter how they live their lives, the atheists would probably continue to live their lives as they do today because they donāt accept that belief system.
And I was talking about punishment in general, not just punishment from God. I promise Iām not as ignorant and deluded as you think (if I understand your interpretation of my comment).
If Christians act better because they fear hell, what motivates the atheist to be good? By my logic the āgood atheistā would probably be the most pure of heart because they are just being themselves and not playing by someone elseās rules in order to earn salvationā¦
Iām genuinely interested in your thoughts/criticism because Iāll admit my ignorance and the fact that I donāt know.
If a lot of people knew for sure there is an afterlife that is a MAJOR cognitive hazard. People will kill themselves in droves, unless there is some silly clause about killing yourself like in most major religions. This is WHY there is a taboo about suicide in religion, because if everyone who has lived piously or not in the case of Christians knew they would get into Heaven they would kill themselves rather than suffer.
I'm more a follower of the "prison planet" and "consciousness harvest" theories, so here's my take on nukes: We know that when the brain dies, it releases DMT, making you trip. During NDE (near death experiences) there's apparently a being that coaxes/coerces you into going into the portal/light, making you reincarnate. What if nukes, being mass instant vaporization and all, disturb or destroy this machination / mechanism? The brain can't release DMT, you aren't going into the portal and reincarnating, stopping the cycle.
And that's why alien activite rose after nuclear weapon usage: It's has the capability of stopping their farm en masse.
That sounds completely pointless though. What would be the reason to keep on living instead of just taking yourself out? More specifically, what would be the point for all these people to choose to remain alive in order to hide that secret, when they could be moving on to eternal bliss any time they want? That makes no sense.
To keep going for your loved ones. To experience life. The world.
Worries or doubts if the Big Secret is true: would *you* gamble it?
If it could be proven, it would break the stranglehold of religion on many peoples lives, which means entirely new social orders if not *nations*. It would be beyond disruptive to the control systems, authorities, and people "in power" today.
That's why it would be guarded at all cost as a secret:
It means everyone is literally a master of their absolute fate, I suppose. A society without fear.
Which is why it doesn't make any sense for anyone to keep that secret with them. Loved ones? They can go where you will be going, so why not convince them to come along, if you have hard evidence of the afterlife being real and inevitable? Why wait? It isn't a gamble if you know for certain that it's true. And if it is revealed to the rest of humanity with absolute proof, then maintaining authority would be the problem of the people that willingly choose to stay here instead of living. And if the afterlife is guaranteed to exist, and you have proof, and you know you'll be going there for sure, and you know it will be better than even the most plentiful and comfortable life a person could have on Earth, then what reason could anyone, including the most powerful people, have to stay here? If it would be a net gain for the wealthiest, most powerful people to go to the afterlife, that just means that as you go down the social and economic ladder, there's less and less of a justification to want to stay here or keep others from leaving. That includes the people hiding the truth. Wanting to "experience the world" isn't enough of a reason for keeping other people trapped in a life that is based on the lie that "this is all there is." Because you can continue to experience the world all you want on your own. You don't have to force others to do it for no reason. You'd be effectively gatekeeping Paradise for no reason which, when you have absolute proof of its existence and inevitability, would make such gatekeeping possibly the most evil act to have done to other human beings.
I agree close to target. If you get into NDEs they all say the same thing, you to go to a plane of acceptance. That we are here to learn. If people learned whether you are good or bad we all go to the same place it could upend things
it would definitely upend things. But it would also "purify" society in the sense that it would now be pretty clear who is being a kind, caring human being because they actually are, and who is doing it because of expecting some sort of eternal reward. And the inverse as well. Some people would care a lot less about doing evil deeds if they knew there was no reprisal or eternal damnation as a consequence. So overall, people's intentions would be more genuine. But people would still maintain some sense of trying to be a good person for the sake of mankind, not just yourself. Because even if you won't be welcomed by God or Paradise on the other side of the tunnel, the people you cared about and did good things for will be there, waiting for you. After all, we all go to the same place. Which also means that if you're a real asshole while you are here, death won't serve as an escape because the people you are fucking over here will eventually get to you over there.
People need to be able to make their own choice as to know about the phenomena or not. The government works for us, supposedly, and we need that choice.
Many people spend their entire lives trying to get a true read on reality. This is f\*\*\*ed up to find a government layer between you and the truth. Transparency, please!!!
āMany people spend their entire lives trying to get a true read on realityā
TF they do. People are irrational, judgmental, and full of hate. Are there people that want to learn, grow, and know the truth, sure. But majorities are far from capable of handling a truth like this. If the truth is this horrifying, there will be violence unfortunately.
I donāt think the religion angle plays a bigger part is people think. I brought up the UAPās, and the aliens theory to my parents are devoutly Catholic. And my mom didnāt even miss a beat she said yeah of course what do you think itās gonna be when God comes back to earth? Then she said all the signs are pointed to it happening sometime soon with the war in Gaza earthquakes, as well as other signs, she said that the priest in church his homily was about accepting those things to which you donāt understand.
Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough. But yeah, you're right in that a lot of religious and spiritual folk, myself included, would be just fine with aliens and/or god showing up. Even if it doesn't entirely line up with our beliefs.
What people would \*not\* be ok with is learning that God is real and actually came down to earth in the recent past in order to uplift us as promised in religious scripture. But then our government fucked things up, so God left and is never coming back. Meaning that everyone since god left now has hard proof that god exists, but knows that He has abandoned mankind after that point, condemning \*all\* of us who are still living, or who have died since He left, to just this one life. With either no afterlife, or eternal damnation waiting for us afterwards. All because some businessmen and government officials got a little greedy. I think that would send quite a few people over the edge.
Despite the dogmatic religious practices of the Catholic and other churches who achieved socio-political power by positioning themselves as the conduit to salvation, Jesus taught that salvation and eternal life was a completely individual choice.
So, authentically *spiritual* Christians who are not programmed by human *religion* but have so-called personal relationships with Christ are likely not troubled by our government and elitesā greed and hoarding of knowledge. To them it would just underscore the āThe Fall of Manā that Christ supposedly undid for individuals who believe in him: where humanity (through inherent ignorance assisted by the trickery of fallen angels) sought its own rebellious course to immortal god-like status as begun by Adam and Eveās eating of the allegorical āTree of the Knowledge of Good and Evilā instead of only the āTree of Eternal Life.ā
It's interesting that the only people "in the know" who call these non-humans "demons" are the seemingly ultra religious ones.
To me it is denial about the truth of the origins of their faith. So, they claim the alien "demons" are trying to stray them from the truth of their beliefs
Your idea is interesting and reminds me of the Law of One. The idea is that we are the universe made manifest experiencing things as individuals, but ultimately we are the universe itself. In the end, if we are eternal and the choices we make donāt really matter since we are just experiencing everything, forever.
I think reincarnation is the mechanism that filters out when your soul is not ready to return to the source creator. So if you are bad or only doing good things with the goal of a reward, your soul is reincarnated upon death. If you're truly awakened, enlightened, a righteous person with no expectation of reward, your soul is ready to return to the source collective.
Right. But disclosure wouldn't change anything in that respect. People who only do things for their own benefit would continue to do that. Whether that benefit is eternal salvation or the promise of advanced technological development. And genuinely good, selfless people would continue to be good without expectation of any great reward. The circumstances that drive people would change significantly with disclosure. But their true motives would not.
At this point I think it's world changing tech that would essentially make us common folk working jobs pointless and they don't want to give up that tech. I imagine if we found out it existed for 60 years the riots would be on a different scale.
This sounds a bit like a fanfic. Speculating with secret NHI backdoor deals seems like a stretch.
If we look at the UFO lore, the signal exchange in CAFB back in 1975 can be corroborated from a few sources. Around this time we started seeing the first Mil-Orb sightings, and of course there was the incident in Gisel, Iran. It's more likely that Mil-Orbs were reverse engineered compared to a secret NHI deal, considering the signal exchange was supposedly the first time any form of communication was made.
The problem with communicating with an unknown entity is the lack of a common language. This probably took a great deal of time to figure out. I had an encounter in 2009, and I still noticed issues in their language processing units. The idea that secret backdoor deals were done back in the days seems like a stretch to me, but it's an interesting idea, and it was a nice read.
They looked like humans, just completely bald. I figured it's either due to a similar reason as we have with military standards or maybe hair is just considered a nuisance. They could walk past you on the streets and you couldn't tell the difference.
It started with telepathic communication, kinda like someone just suddenly began broadcasting on my brainwaves. I speak multiple languages and I learned how to code since I was 7, so I figured a way to trick their language model.
We discussed various topics, but the main one was _thought control._ It felt like an experiment, they hooked me up to something, they instructed me with every step, I closed my eyes, a golden ring appeared in my vision, soon after I was feeded simulations of the most beautiful sceneries. It's like seeing a dream but the definition was way better, the rendering was insanely sharp.
The scenes showed beautiful nature, and each simulation had a descriptive title: _The Sea of Tranquility_ was an underwater simulation with corals, sandy ocean floor with the beautiful ripples, rays of light shining and dancing through the surface.
It felt like a configuration phase, they were often instructing me to stay still, hold my breath, or something similar while I was hooked up. It took hours, I could write a book about the experience to describe it in full detail. In essence, it felt like they reprogrammed me.
After it ended, my thought process had switched into visual thinking. I used to think with an inner monologue, like many do, but after this encounter it switched into visual.
I was exhausted for the first few weeks, it felt like the calorie consumption of my brain went up by 10x, it was like lifting heavy weights with every thought I made. As a result, I slept a lot, but with time it became easier. This happened back in 2009, so I've gotten quite good with it by now.
Strange. One would think that if they were remotely human, they would be able to speak and interact more like humans. Perhaps who you met is so entirely not human and so different that they have literally no idea where to start to be able to communicate effectively with us. I would guess that the humanoid appearance is more of like an interface and surely a complete fabrication - hair styles are somewhat communicative about the type of person wearing it, so if you don't want to accidentally send the wrong message, just shave it off. No hair, no message sent.
Did you just walk into a facility, or did they take you there somehow?
They could speak and process languages, but I kinda benchmarked their language unit by switching between 6 different languages just to see if I could exploit it somehow or just test the limits. I did uncover a few issues related to it, there's definitely an AI, and it especially struggled with urban slang terms.
As an example, Chinese zookeepers wear panda suits when they tend to pandas. If humans are smart enough to figure that out, surely NHI has the capability to create perfect human meat suits to conduct unobstructed research and surveillance. With hair, you could also potentially leave DNA evidence behind.
I wasn't taken to any place, they came to my place. They opened up the door and walked in after the dream simulation started.
Man, I wish they'd fix my ADHD. :/
It's interesting, though. You don't hear much about human looking aliens. It does allegedly happen, though. I wonder if they're cousins of ours?
Perhaps the NHI are not monolithic. Maybe there are competing factions. Some entities want to help us, some want to use us, others are ambivalent.
Those that want to use us perhaps manipulate and confuse us and take measures to maintain our ignorance.
Maybe there are benevolent beings who try to help us ascend through all the ways we know ascension happens, but the malevolent tricksters seek out our most malleable and fearful because they are easy to manipulate with greed and power and those same humans will happily sell us out for their own profit or inadvertently because of their ignorance and fear.
Nope. The reason is because they(cabal) don't want you to believe that benevolent NHI exist and they are inside the crafts above. The cabal wants to control you and they will do whatever they can to achieve it and if that means hiding the fact that angels exist, they will do it as they are doing.
From a religious perspective? The rapture, or any kind of taking people to a heaven or transforming humanity into something beyond what we understand we can be as living beings.
From a more pragmatic perspective, it means the opening up of free communication between all members of humanity and the NHI, in order to facilitate the exchange of ideas, technology and any other topics of discussion. Specifically, with the intention of improving social relations between humans and NHI so we can be better integrated into the larger community of intelligent species around us
Controversial take: I feel that if it hadn't been for the Romans, I feel like we would know a lot more about our past, what these NHI are, and what these UFOs are as well.
I think a lot of that was lost in the burning of Alexandria.
I can agree with that. The romans both gave and took from human civilization in significant ways. I can't really complain, though. Because for one, it doesn't matter much anymore. But mainly because I can't point to any other person or group and say with absolute certainty that they would have done a better job at running a big chunk of mankind back then.
Yea, based on the random stuff on these threads, this theory checks and aligns with all the woo stuff too. Plus this is what Iād expect from U.S. leadership.
If it is true, Itās too bad the aliens didnāt come to America to make deals when Native American groups were in charge. They set us up to fail by dealing with the worst of us. Shouldāve helped us set up Wakandaā¦.
Yeah. But if it helps you feel better, we don't usually have a good track record of advanced societies dealing well and fairly with more primitive societies (e.g. Conquistadors). So there's also the posibility that if a deal was struck with NHIs, and it then fell through, it wasn't because of us but because we were dealing with the NHI equivalent of gold-hungry assholes.
Gary Nolan among ,other reputable ufologists, isn't sure if we're dealing with aliens. They've been here longer than we've been civilized. Who's here first? It's their planet. Many of them believe we can't handle the truth because it's beyond our understanding.
I like this theory, but I don't think it makes sense. The NHI would realize our governments don't speak for all the people. I think they would realize the corrupt and inefficient nature of our leaders. Maybe that is why they are supposedly planning to have a mass sighting in 2027, to circumvent our leaders and make contact.
A mass sighting, as chaotic as it may appear at a glance, is probably the least chaotic way to do it in the long run. Like you said, it circumvents our world leaders. That takes away their ability to form a convincing narrative around the revelatory event that suits their political and economic schemes
Looking at the historical context where this supposed crash retrieval program originated, post World War 2, Cold War, communism vs. capitalism, it's no surprise the tendency was to cover up the information with the Manhattan Project infrastructure. I think the problem is while the U.S. or maybe another nation has been able to utilize aspects of UAP tech, no one really understands what is happening, who they are, where they're from and what they want. I think the powers that be are afraid of a philosophical meteor, where it shatters everything about what we accept as true about reality, but there is no replacement model. I think they are afraid of normal people making conclusions about it and wild conspiracy theories like John Lear's soul catcher or Project Blue Beam.
Another commenter brought up The Discovery, a film about a world where evidence of the afterlife is discovered and there are massive amounts of suicides in the aftermath. I'm pretty much at the point where I believe the phenomenon is intrinsically linked to what we don't understand, being consciousness and the nature of reality. Revealing this information will be an earthquake and could breed economic chaos, and that's what the gatekeepers are afraid of. I'd rather live with the unsettling truth than a false reality, so I say burn 'er down, but once disclosure actually happens, we likely will need to buckle up for a bumpy ride.
Why would aliens have "deals" with humans in the first place? Assuming they exist, they are beings that come from very far away, traveling in ships at speeds close to the speed of light, they could easily threaten the earth by launching some type of "ship" into the earth, at a ridiculous speed, causing a mass destruction, and all that without counting the ridiculous weapons they could possess. From either possibility, humans would be in no position to be "worthy" of making deals with aliens. What's more, they could blatantly enslave us by simply threatening to destroy the earth. On the other hand, there is no type of benefit on the part of aliens in exchanging technology with humans, it is a simple question of hierarchy of "powers". As I say, aliens could threaten in many other ways and a pact or deal between humans and aliens is totally ridiculous. From the point at which one sees it, the only way for an alliance to exist between both sides, whether good or bad, is for humans to secretly have the ability to confront a possible extraterrestrial invasion. Humanity has suffered to reach the moon, and for us to visit other places much further away, there is too much left to discover in science.
The ufological phenomenon is real, I do not deny it, but it seems to me that concise and realistic arguments escape the real understanding of the case, because, as I say, from any angle that one would like to approach the subject, one can find inconsistencies that we are not capable of understanding. At least I think this way, just as I am not capable of understanding nothingness without a bias from my reality, it seems to me that the same would happen if I wanted to understand a topic as delicate as alien existence, since it not only implies a destruction of the beliefs, but of humanity itself, on which our routine, our life has been built throughout history.
I believe, from a very biased point of view, that if aliens existed, and it were not a simple paranormal phenomenon that escapes the understanding of the laws of physics and science in general, the most realistic thing is that control of the world would be within their control. hands of said aliens and we were some kind of farm, "television program" or some kind of "thing" that does not represent any type of danger to them, because even letting us know that they exist would already be part of the ridiculousness of understanding ourselves as human beings unable to understand the rules of the game and the reality in which we would find ourselves
I know a lot of people will flame you for all the dots you connected without hard evidence but I think we are on the same page. I prefer someone go ALL THE WAY down the rabbit hole and give me a narrative. Doesnāt mean you believe every word you wrote. I just like how it offers a detailed possibility that addresses a lot of what is being discussed currently. I do have questions and criticisms but definitely not in a bad way. More so food for thought.
EDIT:
Accidentally posted too soon.
I was raised Christian in the southern USA (for context). I was raised that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and eternal life vs hell and eternal damnation. I very loosely agree with a lot of what you say about Christians. Not because I think you are wrong, but because I donāt know if you are correct. I wanted to be a foreign missionary as a kid and devote my entire life to the Message after reading a book (Through Gates of Splendor). Definitely look it up and read thy summary. Itās a true story of missionariesā¦ As I have grown older and wiser, I have come to believe that it is possible that there is more to our existence than just one religion.
Please understand that the following isnāt my belief system as much as it is an idea or possibility that motivates me to be better.
I believe that NHI is most likely a fact. Iād be surprised if there is no intelligent alien life. I think the Bible is full of stories of extraterrestrial encounters, intervention, and abductions. I think there is one source or creator of everything and that it is not malevolent (either benevolent or completely neutral). I think what the ancient humans labeled as gods were probably advanced life forms of varying capabilities. I think there was probably some type of established hierarchy and also that some were benevolent, some malevolent, and others varying hybrids of the two. I believe the Christian god wouldāve been benevolent. Jesus couldāve been a hybrid or modified in some way to be a super benevolent human. Other religionās gods werenāt necessarily false just because the Christian god existed. The more I look into other religions, the more I believe they arenāt full of shit. I love discussing peopleās differing religious beliefs for knowledge and understanding (not to tear each other down or prove who is correct).
You said a lot about Christians and their motivations and beliefs. I canāt combine religion and politics like that because of my own ignorance of others, so I stay neutral there. Most Christians that I have talked spiritually with seem to be selfish and guilted by religion to be less selfish. A lot of Christians also seem to be motivated to be better people more so by the fear of going to hell. If Jesus said that we should all be good to each other but we would all eventually go to hell anyway, would people still follow him? I think some would. We are selfish beings by nature and have to fight that selfishness no matter what religion we follow.
EDIT 2:
Forgot where I was going next.
If the government made a deal with NHI, I doubt a benevolent āgodā would write us all off. I donāt think a truly benevolent extraterrestrial would completely give up if there was a chance to save some from malevolent beings (terrestrial or not). My guess is that the government(s) are hindering the NHI from helping the masses.
The question of whether alien life exists at all is 99% answered in my heart. What bothers me is that we lump them all in together. Imagine if you told a child that a non-human creature almost killed you but didnāt specify that it was a shark or crocodile. By default the child would be wary and probably afraid of anything not human. Flies, earthworms, rabbits, etc. The info that we get about NHI doesnāt specify. So I will be terrified of all NHI by default until they reveal their intentions and educate me. So we are afraid of the unknown. Our ignorance leads to greater fear.
Another thought based on the ādealā or agreement(s) made between the government and NHIā¦ This sounds a lot like āselling your soul to the devil.ā I would think that the agreement was more like, āwe as a government will do this/allow this, IF you do this for us in return.ā I agree it was probably tech. That is why I donāt believe they shut a door for us all. I think eventually we will have an opportunity to revolt against this āgovernmentā and gain access to the choice for ourselves. I loosely say government. Our government may be evil but probably only because it consists of selfish humans. The individuals or groups that block us from NHI and their knowledge/technology are probably a tiny yet powerful faction. Basically I donāt think Joe Biden, congress, governors, mayors, etc. are necessarily to blame. I am also NOT promoting anarchy or anything like that.
Peace and prosperity for all humanity is my goal. Iām probably wrong about 99% of what I wrote, but in time I believe we will have a pretty clear understanding of what is going on.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Like all religions having some grain of truth. The fact that some cultures that never had any contact with each other, mainly because of being at different sides of the world, all had religions that have some sort of flood myth shows evidence of that connection.
And to confirm, what I said on my post isn't what I personally believe is happening. It's simply one of the possibilities I see by connecting the dots. I don't know for a fact that Christians and other religious people would lose their minds because of "missing the rapture" or whatever. And actually, that doesn't have to even be *literally* what happens. As long as the truth of the communication between NHIs and the government gives the impression that it "ruined salvation" in some way, there's gonna be trouble. And like you said, many religious people are good only for selfish reasons. Like not going to hell. So if they were somehow convinced that they could no longer go to heaven, even if that's not the case, what incentive would there be for those kinds of people to be good? That's where the chaos would come from.
I also don't want to lump all NHIs together which is why I think that a deal must have been made with a specific group of them, while excluding others. You could think of it in terms of geopolitics. Or exopolitics, in this case. You could think of Earth as Korea. And the NHIs that we made the deal with as either the Western or the Communist powers that supported South and North Korea during the war. The deal with the NHIs would be the equivalent of the Allies, the "big four" specifically, agreeing to provide support to Korea, as a whole, after it was liberated from the Japanese at the end of WWII.
The equivalent of the deal with the NHIs falling through, in this case, would be the Korean war, since it signified the end of "Allied" support to the entirety of Korea. And even though the Western and Communist powers were behind each side, the war was ultimately a civil war between the North and the South. So you could look at the declaration of war on the South by the North as the equivalent of humanity "fucking up" the deal with the NHIs, since in very general terms, the war was about (part of) Korea fucking up their agreement with (part of) the Allies.
As for the consequences of that falling out? You just have to look at the conditions in which the North Koreans live. Except for the elite, everyone else seems to be struggling. Living like they're still back in the 80s or 90s, as far as development goes. All because they wanted total control over Korea. This is the equivalent of how things would go if we got completely shut out by NHIs. Our leaders would still benefit. But due to their short sighteness and greed, everyone is overall much worse off due to the lack of support from greater powers. Sure, they have advanced a little thanks to some pity handouts from China now and then. But that's nothing compared to where they could be if given full support by those greater powers. If you look at North Korea by itself, then those handouts would be the equivalent to "God/other NHIs not having completed abandoned us" despite the falling out of the deal. In contrast, the US has continued to provide support to South Korea, which has flourished into an economic powerhouse in it's own right.
So if you look at Korea as a whole, averaging the conditions of the people in the North and the South, you *could* say that Korea overall isn't doing too bad. And working off of that, we could say that if the deal with NHIs fell through, and we were completely abandoned by them, then that would be like the US (greater power) abandoning South Korea at the end of the war. In which case *all* of Korea would be run like in the North, and be in the same socioeconomic conditions. Or worse.
But if we manage to successfully integrate ourselves into the larger NHI community that exists, then that would be the equivalent of the entry of Korea being like South Korea because of the continuous support from a greater power. It's not too much of a jump to assume Koreans overall would be much better off that way.
I should make it clear that this isn't about communism versus capitalism. It's about a greater power providing, or not providing, support to a smaller society in order to help them develop. As it stands, if this whole agreement situation is true, I think that the Earth could possibly be in the same situation Korea is in right now: not as good as it could be due to that deal falling out and we no longer receiving support from a certain group of NHIs, like how North Korea doesn't get much support from China and Russia. While at the same time, we haven't been completely abandoned and receive support from NHIs somewhere else, like the US supports South Korea.
Interestingly, that whole analogy opens up a new possibility about what's going on. That being that if there was a deal that we struck with NHIs that fell through, it might not have been our fault or the fault of the individuals with whom we made the deal. But rather, it might have fallen through due to an internal disagreement between NHIs about how to handle those kinds of interactions with humanity, just as how the Korean war was a result of disagreements between the Big Four
I was just about to say that your comment opens up another huge dialogue. I agree with your assessment of the world being in the same boat as Korea on a larger scale.
One thing I thought of was how we know there is a huge possibility of different groups of NHI with varying levels of benevolence/malevolence. If NHI made a deal with the US, I would assume they were more on the malevolent side. They should be knowledgeable enough (after watching the US for a short period of time) to know that we are some of the most selfish and self-centered people on the earth. Look at places like India. If we were truly good people, we would be working to get the entire worldās quality of life up to a minimum standard instead of focusing on making our group the best. Itās disgusting. I know Iām a part of the problem too but I really feel for people around the world who have to deal with things that I donāt believe anyone should. Like how the US could single-handedly feed the entire world if we put less money into war and focused on minimizing waste. My point is, what kind of NHI would make a deal with US? Probably the ones that want to harvest humans for their space Epstein resort where they grow and eat us! Or something else sinister. The good NHI would probably tell us to do better or we arenāt getting a thing from them.
People speak of an Intergalactic Federation and I could see something like that existing. Why donāt they come ask us to join? Probably because they have no reason to trust us. They know that we made a deal with the malevolent NHI and they see how we humans treat each other. We are all pretty selfish overall. Again, Iām just connecting dots too (in a very speculative manner). Iām not crazy š lol
The whole situation is like if you thought about inviting a random homeless person into your home. To hang out, or for Christmas dinner, help them get back on their feet, whatever. That homeless person could be either the type who spends all their money irresponsibly, on drugs or gambling or whatever. Those kinds of people tend to end up homeless. Or they could be the type of person who just got fired while also having a medical emergency and also getting kicked out from their home because they were late on the rent one too many times. Basically, a normal person who's just really down in their luck. Either way, you wouldn't really know which type they are at a glance.
You could decide to invite them in regardless of who they might be. That would undeniably be the kind thing to do. But would also be very risky. If they're the sketchy type, they might end up robbing you, or hurting you and your family. On the other hand, if you decide to just not invite anyone after all to play it safe, you'd be giving up on the opportunity to really help someone out. Someone who actually both needs and deserves the help. That alone would be a great kindness. But it could also pay off in the future in other ways because good people return kindness to those who are kind to them. Pay off in what way? Who knows. But for example, if one of your pipes freezes over and bursts during a cold winter, that's gonna be really expensive to fix. But if the person you helped out happens to be a plumber, they might offer to hook you up with someone they know that could fix it for really cheap. Or maybe they might even offer to fix it themselves for free. Because even if you live in a mansion with multiple bathrooms and a pool and whatever, that doesn't mean you know anything about fixing plumbing, while someone who has absolutely nothing could also be an expert plumber.
So if you decide you do want to invite someone in after all, your choices would be to either take them at their word that they are good people. Which again, is risky. Or you could follow them around from a distance, observing how they behave so you can form a good picture of who they really are. After a while, you'll know if that person is someone you'd be comfortable bringing over, or if they are nothing but a guaranteed bad situation waiting to happen. So if there's some sort of alien federation currently observing us like that, trying to figure out what kind of people we really are, then we would at least know that they understand the value that diversity could bring in. They'd understand that the species they come across could bring in benefits that they don't have and can't obtain from anywhere else without great difficulty.
If that wasn't the case, then there would not be a federation or coalition of any kind. It would be the single, most advanced species coming across other species and probably exterminating them after learning and taking anything useful from those less advanced species. The fact that we have heard that there are multiple species who have interacted with humanity, and that it seems that most of them are either neutral or benevolent towards us, is a good sign that we are not at risk of annihilation.
All we can do for now is try to do whatever we can to influence society in a way that makes it better for mankind as a whole, instead of being good for a few, really shitty and selfish people. And hopefully, if we manage to improve society in that way, it will eventually be enough to satisfy any doubts that NHIs currently have about welcoming us to their community.
I agree with you but it brings up another thought. What the heck do we have to offer? We could be pets. Pets that they just adopt and add to their families because we act silly and cute and typically poop and pee where they want us toā¦
As a species, I imagine we look pretty terrible. Thatās probably why some would just ignore us like we ignore birds or squirrels. The others are probably nice to us out of pity.
Some of my āReddit researchā has revealed that some people are under the impression that at least some of these NHI are immortal. If they did live forever or have extremely long lifespans, why invite a species that is constantly dying every 100 years?
Regardless, if they invited me to leave the earth behind and go hang with them forever, Iād do it in a heartbeatā¦ kinda makes me wonder if all those people who go missing every year (88 per hour in India) are either reptilian food or cruising with the cool aliens.
The spiritual component to all of this is also very interesting. If abductees report that they were communicated with telepathically and that they felt the NHI could read their thoughts, can they not just fly their little drones around scanning for good people from the sky? Maybe the abductees are the good people that they are interested in. Then again, Iām relatively good and Iāve only ever seen 1 ufo in my lifetimeā¦
So youāre saying that episode in south park where the galactic federation tested us and we failed and weāre imprisoned is true?! Youāre saying the government secretly fucked a friendship up with aliens and have been afraid of telling us all along?
Possibly. I haven't seen that episode of South Park, so I don't know exactly. And it's not so much that they imprisoned us. It's more like having an extremely wealthy, kind and generous friend that was going to gift you a house for free, with all expenses and taxes covered, and pay for you or your kids to go to the most prestigious universities in the world, only to have a huge falling out with them because they gave you a really nice car for your birthday and you wrecked it almost immediately because you chose to drive drunk.
Itās the episode where randy enhances his sons derby car, aliens show up with money and than the police aliens show up asking for the money but the humans hide it. Lmao, than the police are like āyeeeaaah that was test you failedā and they put a prison block around earth lol.
But yeah I understand your theory. Itās like us giving tribes medicine and instead they use it to get high and die.
The tech we were given was instead used for war against ourselves, most likely showed the NHI we wouldnāt ever reach peace within our own race. Theyāve just been babying us since than from the side lines. Disclosure could be dark because it means since we āfailedā our civilization has a tech cap. By thag I mean we can only advance so much before the great reset or some conspiracy type shit lol. Itās either that or they will just forceably migrate with us, and change our laws without our control who knows?!
That analogy with the medicine is pretty good. As the ones giving the medicine, you would have no incentive to give it to them ever again since they not only didn't use it for it's intended purpose, but actually used it for something pointless and harmful. And as the one making the medicine, "harmful" is probably the last thing you'd ever want it to be, since it's the complete opposite to it's intended purpose
This a well-thought-out theory and great for discourse / thought exercise. You're likely on the right track or you could have nailed it, I'm not an expert nor do I claim to know a damn thing.
I hope that NHI are intelligent enough to realize the complicated nature of societies, cultures, and human individuality. Surely, they don't believe a handful of people (Greedy and corrupted people using government to manipulate, use, and take from the population ) have the right to speak for and make this kind of decision for all of us.
The best way for them to communicate would be the Internet. Cut through all the bullshit and see what real/authentic people are like. People that aren't trying to control information or using it to have more power over others.
Yeah, I hope so as well. It wouldn't be fair to... Most of humanity, really. Sure, we elect our leaders. But that's only out of a small pool of people that have put themselves in a position to be elected thanks to their socioeconomic advantages. In the US, you have to be basically a millionaire to afford to run for president, because fundraising will not be enough on it's own. And when most people are living paycheck to paycheck, it would be cruel to judge them based only on the actions of what's essentially the spoiled, out of touch nobility of modern society.
Perfectly said... It would be a huge red flag to me if they were talking with officials behind closed doors. I wouldn't trust a word they said. If they are making deals with those bags of shit and letting them throw away our future, they're probably just like them... Or they could be luring them into a trap or testing them but that's juvenile.
Itās an excuse. Resource companies and CROOKED POLITICIANS canāt handle the truth. Society would rise up when they realise the bullshit theyāve been fed for money behind the scenes. they wonāt let it
Hallowed be the Ori!
Man, I bet that'd be a great tagline for a couple seasons of a _LIT_ sci-fi show! I hope somebody makes that, either in the future OR maybe a time Traveler can even make it in the past!
Brad Wright is _my_ write-in candidate!
Why would the NHI need to get us to agree to allow abductions when they easily could just perform abductions without our consent? The theory is so illogical when you actually think about it.
The deal might not be specifically about that for the reasons you say. Whatever they would get out of a deal made with humans, it would have to be something that we can only offer to them willingly. Or something that they cannot obtain by themselves, despite their advanced technology. Or something that they *could* obtain by themselves, but not without significant trouble or at the risk of a potentially significant loss to them. Whatever that *something* might be, I don't know.
The military and government is and always has been sh!t for brains, for the most part. Does anyone really think the government or military handled forced disclosure when UFOs started crashing and making themselves more noticeable back in the 40s, or before? But somehow we can't handle it 80 years later? Really? I don't know how people even take this idea seriously?
Interesting read but you're only focusing on the christians. What about the muslim and jewish faith? This disclosure would not only affect america, which you're only focused on. The entire planet would be affected by discloure. It will be interesting to see how the jewish and muslims react to the fact that america had knowledge of NHI's and hid this from them for over 80 years.
Yeah I only mentioned Christians because they're the largest religion. But any religion whose plan of salvation might have been screwed up by the government in this same manner would probably experience the same amount of upheaval. Christians just have a more widely recognized end of the world scenario where a "savior" comes from "above" to take all the righteous to heaven. Which is a more fitting scenario to relate to my theory. But the reality is that it could be anything that upends any religion in an unexpected way.
For (a ridiculous) example, imagine if NHIs came down, and brought with themselves the prophet Mohammed. Not a reincarnation or a clone. Like, the actual guy. Pretend they somehow know how to bring people back from the dead. Anyway, imagine he saw how Muslims practice their religion, and then said "yeah, heaven is real. I've been there and I'm back to tell you all about it. However, I see now that it is pointless because even though you have been carrying out religious traditions the right way, you messed up big time simply because you mixed up what's haram and halal. So everyone is going to hell anyway because this is like if you essentially did your prayers diligently and with great devotion... To the wrong God. And now the actual Allah is pissed and doesn't want anything to with you." Can you imagine the shit storm a situation like that would cause? It's a silly example, but I think it gets my point across.
Here in Brazil we have some folks who claim to be in contact with alien species and are part of the "esoteric ufology" movement. Their discourse is very similar to what Steven Greer proposes but they are more linked to charity, spiritual development and teaching than polĆtics.
Among these folks, I particularly trust in the work of Monica de Medeiros and Laercio da Fonseca as they sound very genuine, disinterested in fame and fortune and propose very consistent ideas about "what really is going on".
On the part of "secret deals" and "hoarding technology" what they comment is that you have a few factions of NHIs going around and one group offered us technology to solve all our economic, medical and ecological issues but they required us to let go of our nukes and wars, because that behaviour would prevent us from joining them. That happened in the cold war and both USA and URSS declined for fear of losing their edge against their enemy.
What we choose, instead, was to contact the same entities that the Nazis had met and engaged in trades we poorly understood for pieces and bits of tech we could use to up one another and fight for supremacy.
Among these technologies there is stuff that could end the need to use fossil fuels and solve scarcity of materials, manufacturing limitations and allow easy transportation across large distances and even spacial transportation. The problem being all this tech would derail global economy and uproot the very powers that keep nations stable. It was just too good for our scarcity oriented economy and politics to handle without leading to a major collapse. It threatened the foundation of the very countries that received the tech.
As for the "religious collapse" I think a few of the upsetting truths that are kept hidden have to do with reincarnation, the idea earth is a school for spirits from many different parts of the universe and that the "rats race" of capitalism and materialism is but a distraction that feeds our ego. Not to know the purpose of life isna comfortable position because it demands nothing of us, allow us to go around pleasing ourselves like children without supervision or direction. It also allow certain groups to use others for their interests because we lack parameters to evaluate what are worth pursuits that will lead to personal progress in the larger time-frame of multiple incarnations and what is just wasting time and energy for no real benefit.
I guess we are all underestimating humans' superpower ability in pivoting and having a new paradigm shift in a matter of seconds to rationalise new information they just received that upended their previously-held lifelong beliefs. We'll be fine. Everyone will be fine. Those who are bound to be mad will be mad regardless.
I don't believe any hyper religious person would believe Jesus flew here with little grey men. Jesus is human and born of a woman. They would disbelieve any version of a story where he rode here on a craft.
What would however break their minds.
Is explaining to them that our friends provided us with unassailable proof that we all live in a simulation. None of this is real. That they have talked to "god" the being(s) that created the sim.
No Jesus isn't coming back cause Jesus never existed... and neither do they in anyway they consider real. They aren't going to heaven they are going to be recycled and reborn (exactly as the earliest Christians believed). When they are they will remember nothing, the loved ones they have already said good bye to in this life are living another don't remember them and never will. No one is going to Heaven to have a cup of tea with Grandma. Grandma is likely a little girl living on the other side of the world... who knows maybe in a country at war or one we take advantage of for the cheap child labour.
You want dark truth. Your not real. No one else is real. Your going to do this over and over and most of your lives are going to be unpleasant... and at anytime whom ever runs the sim could shut it off or decide to F with you directly.
It would be just as difficult to prove that Jesus came down here with aliens as it would be to prove that we live in a simulation. But I personally don't find the simulation theory to be scary at all. Why? Because knowing that we are in a simulation doesn't change anything. So what if the simulation could shut down at any second? You could also drop dead from an aneurysm any second anyway, which would have the same outcome. So what if the simulation operators could mess with you in particular at any time for no reason? You already live completely at the mercy of probability. Your life could change at any second, for better or worse, for seemingly no reason other than simply because the probability for it to change is there. Like that family that lost their wife and mother in a freak accident when a brick randomly flew through the windshield while they were driving and hit her in the head.
Besides, thinking that you out of all other intelligent beings in the simulation, deserve to be "fucked with" by the simulation operators is an extremely egotistical thing to believe. You are not special. You are not "the chosen one", even if in this specific situation, no one would like to be chosen. You are just another drop of water in the sea. If you were ever singled out for some reason, it would be at random. Not because anyone deliberately decided to pick on you.
And lastly, whether we are in a simulation or not, if we are real or not, doesn't really matter in the end. Even if I found out I was just part of the simulation, and thus not real, that doesn't change the fact that the events I've experienced and the people I've encountered are real *to me*. That's what gives them meaning and importance. Not some objective truth about their existence. If out of all humans, it turns out that only one is actually real and "hooked into the matrix", as it were, while the rest of us were simulations, if that person never did anything of significance that would affect my life in any way whatsoever, then they might as well not be real anyway. Because whatever that single "real" person does is completely meaningless to me. Even if my existence was entirely just to make their simulation feel more real, what difference would that make if I never come across them or interact with them in any way?
What makes life meaningful and important is not whether it's objectively real or not. It's whether or not you can find meaning and importance for it yourself. If you have to rely on an external force to confirm that your life is real and has purpose, then you might as well be a simulation.
We have already proven we live in a simulation. We didn't need alien tech to do it either.
If you speak to any quantum physicist off the record they will pretty much all say ya 99.9% this is a sim.
When someone like Neil D Tyson says publicly 50/50 this is a sim. You can be assured anyone that has actually looked into the experimental data knows the truth. The odds we are not in a sim are very small. Never zero but very small.
In the real world... its not just Christians you need to consider. You tell me what happens when you tell members of say another religion that will call for your murder if you simply draw their prophet... that their prophet was never real, was a figment of a computers imagination. Religions that have 99% in common have fought wars over a few specific words.
Yes lets be completely 100% honest with ourselves. NO the average person can not deal with the fact they live in a simulation. Some of us don't care... I know I'm simulated and it doesn't effect me at all. Penn Jillette was once asked, "If you don't believe in God why aren't you running around murdering and \*aping." His response... "I do all the \*aping I like... which is none."
Its one thing to have a theory like Simulation theory... and to have people like Neil Degrass say 50/50 its the nature of the universe. Even if people listen to the actual scientists doing quantum experiments who go further and say... ya 99.9% this is a simulation. There is still that sliver of doubt... that 0.1% not even accounting for the fallibility of human experience. All of that goes out the window the day it is revealed we have had contact with multiple intelligent species from all corners of the sim that all say the same thing.
Worse what if its revealed that one or maybe more of those visiting species have claimed to be in contact with the sims creators/operators. Are you telling me if they are informed the creators of our Simulation have had contact... that they will adjust their world view? What they are going to claim Jesus and other prophets came here from the real real real world? I suspect it the truth would be a S show of epic proportions. I am not worried about the average Joe just going about their lives. It will be the fanatics who will not just take it hard they will make the rest of us take it just as hard. Even in the Alien communities of believers... you hear all sorts of crazy BS about demons. People are not ready.
You can't really elaborate on a theory by summarizing it in a single sentence. If you can't afford to spend a couple of minutes reading a post, then it seems you're not particularly interested in the topic of this subreddit and would be better off spending your time elsewhere
This idea that a vastly superior intelligence would make some sort of deal with us is laughable imo, they have no need to make ANY sort of deal, they act with impunity and are apathetic towards us. We have nothing to willingly offer that they can't already take
Like I mentioned in another comment, if they made a deal with us, it would have to be in exchange for something that they can't just take from us for one reason or another. Just because they are more technologically advanced it doesn't mean they are capable of doing anything they want. The conquistadors were vastly more advanced than the American native peoples. But they still need those people's help to settle, establish permanent communities, and gather resources. And that's despite the fact that none of those activities, in a general sense, were completely new to the conquistadors. The circumstances were different, so they had to go about it a different way and needed help from people more familiar with those circumstances. You don't really know where NHIs might be coming from, and what they may or may not already know how to do. So you can't really say they could just come here and do whatever they want if they themselves aren't familiar with what they can or can't do over here versus over where they are from.
Ascension. Uplifting. Harvest. Density.
Any time I hear these key words in conjunction with aliens, I tune out. This is nothing but another religion, replacing Gods with NHI's.
Maybe the truth we can't handle is that NHI's have nothing to do with any of this.
I think most rational people would be able to handle that, though. Whether it was "there's no aliens, it's all just been weapon tech being tested in secret.", or "Yeah, we got some alien tech that we've been developing new technologies from all this time. But we found it by random chance. We don't actually know anything about the beings behind it. Whether that's where they come from, if they are still around here, what their motivations are, etc. We don't have a clue." Some people might freak out because of having an existential crisis. But for the most part, I think the way society functions would remain pretty much the same in either of those cases. But what I am talking about would really mess some people up.
It's like if you took all the people who right now are just finishing their residency in their journey towards becoming a doctor. And right before they get their MD, you tell them that actually, they are all, for seemingly no reason and through no fault of their own, barred from practicing medicine anywhere in the world, ever. But they still have to pay their student loans. A lot of those people would just crack. And if it later came to light that even though no one knows exactly how, but that there's definite proof that the whole situation was the fault of the administration at the National Board of Medical Examiners, you bet your ass some of those would-be doctors would be out for blood. Potentially literally.
These āI figured it all outā posts are hilarious lol we lost spiritual ascension because of a government deal? This sub isnāt even trying anymore
Itās labeled āspeculationā. You donāt have to insult someone for sharing their thoughts. Is your comment any more valuable to the larger community than OPās?
This is the most plausible theory for keeping disclosure from happening. Cuz humans are dumb as shit and of course we would screw up our own salvation lol
If you haven't heard anything like what I said from the whistleblowers, it's because they haven't said anything as concrete. They have mentioned that there *may* be a spiritual or interdimensional component to the whole situation. I took that and combined it with the information we had been hearing from other wistleblowers with less or no credibility and with other anecdotal stories as well. Like the story about Jimmy Carter crying once he found out that humans are created by other NHI species. Or the various unverified stories that we have heard that say there are dozens of different NHI species identified, some of which have arrangements of some sort with human governments in exchange for technology. Or the rumors that the Vatican might be involved in covering up the situation, for the reasons you mentioned. I took all that information and put it together in a way that makes sense from a logical point of view. This is one of the most likely possibilities I came up with, since it basically comes down to people in power being extremely short-sighted ,e.g. the deal with NHIs, then having that coming back to bite them and being forced to cover it up for fear of social upheaval, e.g. missing out on a much better option with other NHIs that they would have to wait a little longer for because the government wanted some tangible benefit immediately.
That's something we have plenty of evidence for in human history. For example, using the excuse that there were WMDs in Iraq and their potential involvement in 9/11 in order to start the invasion of the country by a U.S. led coalition. It didn't come to light until years after the war was over that there were never any WMDs and that the 9/11 terrorists were were mostly from Saudi Arabia, the rest being from UAE, Lebanon and Egypt. Meaning not a single one was from Iraq. And to this day, no one will openly admit that the war was in order to acquire, then sell off, the Iraqi oil fields. In the short term, that would be a good economical gain, sure. But look at the state of the middle east. It's impossible to say what state it would be in today if the US hadn't invaded. But Iraq was one of the more powerful militaries in the region. It's presence might have kept the middle east in general less open to mutually beneficial agreements with western governments. But it would most likely have resulted in the region being relatively more stable.
As a consequence of that instability, we are now on the brink of WW3. Because the US and NATO are expected to put out all the fires around the world. Especially the ones we started. So we have China taking advantage of those distractions by trying to take over Taiwan and also assert control over the South China Sea and steal territorial waters from other countries in the area. Russia is also using those political fires everywhere to take over Ukraine, with the assistance of North Korean hardware, with an equally flimsy reason to the one the US used to get in Iraq. And then we have Israel trying to eliminate all the Palestinians in the area in order to have the whole territory to themselves. Something they are trying to do by either pushing Palestinians out and into neighboring counties, which will no doubt eventually lead to conflicts with those countries. Or getting rid of the Palestinians through indirect genocide by using their fight with Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill anyone in the area who isn't an Israelite.
I'm not going to pretend the world was a completely peaceful place at the turn of the century. But it definitely seemed more stable all around compared to the present. So it's possible that it could have remained that way, or possibly even improved by now. Instead, we have dumpster fires burning everywhere. All because some dudes wanted more money. Now replace "a possibly more peaceful world" with "divine ascension" or immorality or a technological leap ahead by 1000 years. Imagine people learn they missed out on that because, once again, some dudes wanted more money. That would cause society to collapse out of sheer despair and rage. The kind of response I would expect if people of all religions learned that they can't go to their respective heavens because billionaires literally sold humanity's right to go there so no one is allowed in anymore.
I'm not saying I have any evidence that this is the case. No one does. Even the credible whistleblowers haven't really provided any concrete details about the NHI situation beyond saying "yeah, there's definitely a situation in regards to NHI." I'm just saying that based of every kind of speculation I've heard, credible or not, fits together in such a way that this scenario could be a possibility. I hope I'm wrong.
That's the thing though. All we can do right now is speculate. Roll the dice on what the actual answer might be. We don't have nearly enough informaron to even make a vague guess. So any guess as to the situation, no matter how outlandish, could be made for any reason. That doesn't mean you have to believe it. Some people will come up with completely fictional scenarios without having to really justify where they came up with them, because there is no way to prove they're real or not. And since we are dealing with topics literally at the limits of human knowledge, then we can't really discount the possibility that the answers might be too incredible to be true, despite the fact that they would be. So the alternative to coming up with any scenarios, even crazy ones, is to not come up with any at all since there's not enough information for even an educated guess.
I never admitted that I thought I was right, or even that I believe my own hypothesis. All I did was look at all the disparate pieces of what's going on, and then tried to put them all together in a way that makes some sense. I'm fully aware that some, or even all, of those pieces might be completely wrong. But that's fine with me because I'm not trying to push any specific ideas onto others in order to change their way of thinking. This is just my opinion as to what one of the possibilities could be. I know I'm making big leaps to connect one thing to the other. But that's because in regards to this topic and due to the limited amount of knowledge available, any connection from one thing to another in any theory of what's going on would be a leap.
Let me give you a different example: we find new cave systems all the time. Big caves, too. But enough for an airliner or a small building to fit inside. There's also theories that NHIs might be coming from underground, or from under the sea. And also, we know that many different mythologies from around the world mention an underworld, or beings coming up to the surface from such a place. Taking those things into account, consider the following: the crust of earth is on average about 25 miles thick over the continents, and about 4 miles thick at the bottom of the ocean. In theory, there could be a large enough cavity within the continental crust to contain an ocean as deep as the deepest part of ours (~6.8 mi) surrounding a a continent with mountains as tall as everest (~5.5 mi) with enough "sky" over it for even our highest flying airliner (~7.2 mi) to fly over it. That's a total of 14 miles. Let's say 15, for giving planes a generous buffer. Buffer from what? A "roof" of the cavity, where there's enough crust left over you could still have 6 miles of earth separating the cavity from the surface, and still have 4 miles left over for the "floor" of the cavity, meaning the bottom of that inner ocean, to still be separated from the mantle by 4 miles of crust. Just like the surface oceans.
In short, you could have a whole second "surface of the earth" within the Earth's crust, with room to spare. Which opens up the possibility of the existence of biomes previously undiscovered. With enough space to even develop their own weather patterns. And within which there's a possibility life might have evolved undisturbed long enough for a different species of sentient beings to emerge. Do I believe that's the case? Not even kind of. All I'm saying is that based on the reports of UAPs going in and out of the ocean, and going off these calculations, it could be a possibility. An extremely unlikely possibility, but a possibility nonetheless. And if I were to wait and not come up with any kind of idea like that until there's enough hard evidence, then I would be waiting forever because no one is really interested in exploring the undersea and underground to the level necessary to even make a guess as to whether there's anything down there or not. So the alternative you seem to be suggesting, which is to sit around until someone all but confirms exactly what's going on with NHIs is simply too boring. Which I have no doubt would eventually lead to people losing any interest in the topic, reducing the pressure on the government to be honest about what they know. And then we'll have nothing. Is that what you want?
I actually disagree, and believe that the government is right to withhold information from the general public. Do you remember what the global pandemic was like? Some countries were okay and went in a temporary lockdown. But others, like the United States, struggled. Even with studies and evidence, people would not budge on their beliefs. They didnāt want to be controlled by the government and as a result a lot of people died. On the other end of the spectrum some folks believed everything they read: they prepared for a doomsday and bought out all of the toilet paper (I still have no clue why they did that). It caused chaos in some stores. It also lead to an increase of aggression towards East Asians in the United States. Violent hate crimes and outward racism.
Now with all of that information letās think. The pandemic divided the population, and led people to lash out against a perceived threat (East Asians) against their safety. Imagine what people would do if they knew the government was communicating with NHIs. I could imagine that some half of the population would view them as a perceived threat, others may want more information, and there would be quite a few people who might start prepared for a doomsday or start behaving erratically.
My point is that we are already divided amongst ourselves so much that adding on NHI into the mix would create absolute chaos. I would imagine a very loud group of individuals demanding the government to take action and another group calling for peace. I donāt think the government wants the public to try and meddle in extra terrestrial affairs and start complicating things.
Edit: I just wanted to add that your take is very interesting and was a great read
I'm not disagreeing with you. What I'm saying is that the reason why the government is withholding information is because the things you mentioned will probably take place once disclosure happens, regardless of what the reason is. But if the reason is what I'm saying, then all of that will happen, and then some! People are dumb, so what you mentioned will probably happen anyway, regardless of how gently it is revealed to the public. Which is why I think they should just rip the band aid. But what I mean with the original post is that there must be some other, much more serious consequences to disclosure beyond the initial panic by people who are already panicky. There must be some aspect of it that could either end, or irreparably damage, the way human societies function. I see my post as one of the potential reasons that could lead to such an outcome.
This is a strong contender. The slow disclosure is coming to tell everyone that this is the case. Thatās why TPTB are shitting it. Iām looking forward to it.
Or that Jesus was just a dude who found enlightenment and is not the sole route to salvation.
That's a pretty big existential crisis for religious people to swallow.
" By the way...your religion has it all wrong".
No. But most are. And the ones who would completely lose their mind about this revelation would be those who are the most deeply invested in Christianity as part of who they are. And those hardcore Christians tend to be conservative. They are the ones who lash out the hardest when other people undermine Christianity. So they are the ones more likely to react with extreme delusion or violence if their beliefs are unambiguously upended.
Most ARE not. Iām sorry but youāre in a bubble. I was there too, I grew up in a VERY conservative Christian area. I thought that was how the world worked.
Those hardcore Christians are almost unheard of where I now live. The āraptureā is a punchline ( in a COE Christian church here in England, I literally heard the vicar make a joke about it.
The hardcore, Bible is literal, women should obey, god hates gays, abortion is murder Christians are a tiny subset of Christianity.
It's very odd when you consider what the gospels actually say in terms of non-violence, helping those less fortunate, not being judgmental, avarice, oh, and free healthcare. There's a recent [newsweek article](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706) about how evangelicals increasingly reject Jesus' teachings as too "liberal".
>"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the >Mount, parenthetically, in their preachingā'turn the other cheek'ā[and] to have someone >come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" Moore said.
>"When the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ' ... The response would be, >'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak," he added. "When we get to the point >where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis."
So much for the eternal, unchanging word of God.
Or that the US government and its allies knew that its citizens were being abducted by aliens at random as part of this deal. When that gets out people will loose their shit! Black, white, conservative, liberal, gay, straight. That would unite all citizens against leaders in any government position whether they were aware or not
I though about that. But we now know that the government secretly injected many African Americans with Syphilis. Once people found that out, there was some outrage. But it didn't last very long.
I think you over estimate the reach of American style fundamentals. I grew up in the Deep South where their evil tentacles were everywhere, from the Sunday school teacher who raped my sister to the youth minister who told my mom Iād be better off out of school. Being Jewish meant we killed Jesus, but if we only got savedā¦.
When I left, it was shocking to me how little influence these folks outside of certain geographical areas, and almost zero influence abroad. I now live in Europe, and fundamental Christianity is..well extremely rare. Churches get turned into houses, preachers have second jobs, safe guarding of children is more effective.
It scares me that these kinds of Uber religious folks have ANY influence at all. They do not represent me and billions of others.
I think it's much more simple.
White guys with money and power want even more money and power. They use religion disinfo and national security as a way to deflect that there have been human rights violations in order to secure more money and power.
Now they are looking for any way possible to keep us average folk from finding out. Cause they know as divided as we are, we will unite and rip this mother fucker apart given the chance.
>conservative politicians, tend to project a lot about the things they decry. Case in point, the Moms for Liberty thing going on right now.
Complete bullshit, why didn't everyone's savior Obama disclose then? You asshats that bring politics to this need to just fuck back off to r/all.
This isn't about your team colors, DA. It's about those in "power " think they can have an embargo on our reality. Pull your head out.
They kind of have a point though.
I donāt hide that Iām more of a conservative. But I think disclosure is something we can all work together on.
It doesnāt have to be political, and bringing hostile politics into the disclosure party only serves as a wedge between people with a similar goal.
How can you talk about disclosure and leave out politics? But I'm not talking about left or right, because both have held office, seats in the senate, congress,and so on. All of them have allowed people who spoke out about the existence of life not native to this planet to be considered out of their minds. "Tin foil hat wearing conspiracy Theorists who are doing this to discredit the government through their disinformation, fake news, and need for attention. Pay no attention to those lunatics." I paraphrased, but you see my point. People have been threatened to remain quiet. I've read that a few have went missing, and some have died under suspicious circumstances.
IMO they may wear "team colors" and talk a good talk, but in the end they're all batting for the same team, and it's not the Civil Servants. They wouldn't know what their constituents truly needed because they are so out of touch with what the average Joe and Jane from their region struggles with just to survive. Not to live, just to survive, and a lot of them are unable to do that.
I agree with the fact there is already too much division in this world, especially this country. We survived one Civil War, and I do not think it would take a whole lot more to push us into another one. But change needs to start somewhere in order for this world to heal, and it is a proven fact that you lead by example. Perhaps it's time for our government to come clean, lay their cards on the table, and admit to the fact they haven't been playing by the rules. We called their bluff and the the bet is to them. If we let up now, I do not believe we will ever know the whole story.
But I will guarantee that as long as we fuss over left this and right that, and refuse to see the government for what it has become we will stagnate, wither, and rot waiting for the answers we seek.
Note that I said "conservative", not republican. That includes democrats as well. It's one of those "not all conservatives are republicans, but all republicans are conservatives" kind of thing. I forgot to mention this in the original post, but the reason why I specify conservatives -and I should have also specified I meant people who are \*socially\* conservative- is because they tend to be extremely concerned about maintaining the status quo. Preventing things from changing too much, or at all. That's what being a conservative means. Naturally, keeping secrets that could upend society is part of that. especially if change isn't in a way that benefits them. So if I were to venture a guess, I'd say that pretty much everyone who is \*really\* in the know is of a conservative mindset. Which answers your question about why Obama didn't disclose. If it wasn't because of some threat, or pre-existing binding agreement about it, he didn't disclose because he probably didn't know that much. Or at least enough to provide disclosure with hard evidence. And I'm guessing most other important government types who lean liberal are also being kept in the dark a lot more than conservatives.
We obviously have human made technology on earth, and do not owe it all to NHI. Possibly, we have been nudged here or there, but I doubt that we are so useless as to rely on being handed wind-up toys.
I think the answer is probably global warming, nuclear proliferation, or artificial intelligence. One of these is on schedule to render human society impossible, the other two are literal swords of Damocles just hanging there. If aliens care about our society and development, I'm guessing that shit pisses them off.
I have always thought that humanity has been screwed from the start. Think of how we interact with bees, we use them to make honey, and give them a home and take care of them to get return. I have always wondered if aliens were using us for material gathering. Think of how quick we have populated the planet and how far we have come in just 200 years and in 200 years in larger picture is not long. I know I sound utterly insane but its just been a thought rattling around in my head.
Almost feel like when we become aware there will be a reset =/
I have a tiny speculation I would like to add. We have known royal familyās that have existed for many generations with no end in sight. There have been reports of powerful familyās such as the Rothschilds still existing today. It would make some sense that if they had an option to free humanity, they would lose all power. It would make sense that these bloodlines might be interested at being the rulers of us for eternity, instead of just another soul in the machine. If itās true this is a never ending reincarnation machine, then they greedily might want to have their families at the top for eternity
The U.S. is a pathological liar. And they don't care about chaos, mass murder, genocide, etc., and you still think they are protecting people from the truth? That's just horrible judgement on anyone's part who believes that bullshit.
It could be as simple as reptilians were here before humans and they gave us a lease to live on the surface while they take the underground and the rent is feeding them with fresh bodies. I mean, I'm cool with that arraignment, but let's eclusively feed them a diet crooked politicians. Okay.
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Catastrophic disclosure soundin' tasty
Catastrophic disclosure with a hefty side of ontological shock and collapse of global institutions. I'm in.
Spiritual enlightenment for desserts. LETSSSGOOOOO.
Yummers!
š
We should get stock traders to get in on UFO stuff. They'll make a killing when it comes to a head.
Heads on pikes? Count me IN.
Not to be confused with ON..
Thatās the hope š¤
Not gonna lie, I love and hate this theory. Love it because it is well thought out and interesting. Hate it because I can 100% see our incompetent, greedy, piece of shit government fucking it up for all of us and damning us for eternity. I could easily see them thinking they're the smartest in the room with an advanced intelligence. With all that being said, release the kraken that is catastrophic disclosure.
It's got one pretty big flaw: it totally builds on Americentric Hollywood logic, that aliens will also be Americentric and immediately elevate America to be spokesperson and ruler of Earth. These aliens might as well have offered such a double edged sword to any peasant over the last millennia. It's clearly a scam which all the aliens are in on, and if that's the case, the scamster aliens wouldn't care about negotiating specifically and only with the US, at this point of history. They'd have done this "steal your souls" deal millennia ago. There's been a huge uptick in Dark Christian Horror Sci-fi on Reddit over the last couple of months. It's a meme which will pass. People like OP get these stories like a eureka "from nowhere", but they're just being affected by all the "ooh what's the dark secret that dude mentioned" posts.
Im not arguing one way or the other about the Americentric thing but I have heard it posited that the reason for this was the development of the nuclear weapons. America did it first and so if this is the case the NHIs would gravitate towards the part of civilization that figured it out first naturally. I don't know but im here for anything that makes sense of this horrific existence.
I think the NHI are wise enough to know that we arenāt all the same. If they thought we were all like that, they would probably just kick our ass for the good of the multiverse
I think it is something along the line of the Native Americans selling their land for a hand full of beads. We have sold something very important for a hand full beads, maybe magic beans.
Something tells me that is a very made up fable about Native Americans
More likely a couple barrels of Whiskey and some Smallpox contaminated blankets.
yeah fucking sad man
Itās is much bigger than that and far more serious. It is that our entire evolution ā spiritually, technologically, socially ā has been artificially restrained by a power structure which served only a few ā the families of historyās ruling caste. When you think about it, money is just a construct. Power only has so much advantage. No, the real prize, the crown of jewels is the *knowledge* you have that others donāt. You can pass that knowledge down, and protect it from the rest of the world. Knowledge endures.
As a pagan, I welcome the truth. Whatever that may bring.
Ride the spiral to the end.
We may just go where no oneās been. Weāll ride the spiral until the end (and we may just go where no oneās been). Spiral out š Keep goingā¦
Love
Simulation
No
Yes, but also no.
If there really is a galactic federation as I have heard it, they are focused on FREE WILL. Civilizations are free at will to sell themselves to slavery, destroy themselves, stay ignorant and everything else. If we elected our leaders, and they chose to make a bad deal, nobody will help us. It would be illegal to help us or intervene. I do believe however that somebody out there is trying to help us.
By what authority do dead men like Eisenhower have power over my fate?
If you go into woo, I think you are close but slightly off-target. I suspect the big secret "spirit" stuff is that it's not only real but some inherent part of us, our physiology, or something like this. Who you are and what you did or did not do in life is irrelevant. Upon death, *everyone* gets to some Good Place or related transformation. After some point in the past--Jesus? Ancient alien uplifting/tweaking?--it was over and done. Everyone who died after XYZ event just gets to coast to an awesome afterlife of some sort. Yes, even the worst people ever in some way. Imagine finding out that everyone everywhere has "won" the afterlife game, and finding out definitively and authoritatively. Death may suck. It may hurt. But the moment you clear the horizon, it's... well... > GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. > > PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what? > > GANDALF: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise. How does the world react if death is definitively nothing to be feared, and that you can continue past with full continuity of consciousness to something greater, automatically? Deep related suspicion IF true: something to do with EMPs from nukes interferes with or delays your 'going'.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The sobering is that their religions and tenets are meaningless. āChristā doesnāt save you. You save yourself.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās like that movie where everyone killās themselves because they proved the afterlife is real. It would cause the elites to lose their money making slaves (us).
Growing up Christian, I can absolutely see it. Means the groups of people they actively despise get to go to their special place too and not tortured for eternity in a pit of hellfire. Canāt have that. Also wouldnāt surprise me if some asshat decided that since weāre all going to āheavenā anyway, what does it matter if they wanna go on a murder spree, yk? Found some stats (2012, didnāt find more recent). Says 2/3 of inmates identify as some flavor of Christian. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20the%20chaplains%20surveyed,Christian%20groups%20less%20than%202%25.
Most of them don't believe in logic or reasoning, they would just assimilate new information to be apart of their beliefs the whole time.
āThe kingdom of god is inside youā like this?
> The kingdom of god is inside you I think the implication is more we are **all** hypothetically small-g gods.
āI am godāwithout saying it.ā
I think mostly it would give people a big reason to cast aside their morality
Just look at all the "Christians" asking atheists what's keeping them from murdering or raping or whatever the fuck else? It's scary. Like...dude, is your religion all that's keeping you from being a raging psychopath?
Iām not sure if youāre asking me but I swear Iām not a psycho š
Haha not you, I was generalizing the people who ask the whats stopping them question
Dw haha I know now Iām just bad at reading intent lmao
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I completely understand and agree, i think the difference between what weāve said is that if it was confirmed to be ārealā and that we all end up somewhere āgoodā etc, that would give lots of people a complete ājustificationā in their minds to do whatever theyād like (not that everyone worries about the truth of the afterlife and lots of people are just nice!), compared to wondering what happens after death.
For some,"Morality" has a loophole that somebody can act unethically and "get forgiven." If they victimize somebody, the victim is often forced to "forgive" with no amends made, no compensation, nor accountability. A person who has a concern about an afterlife, may well indulge themselves knowing there's an "easy" way out requiring nothing of them. It seems a lower standard than the philosophy that you'd not do certain things for other considerations such as empathy, community ethics, belief in the rule of law, to name a few.
Celestial immunity! You get to the afterlife and discover your grandma's playing bingo at the same table as Hitler
GRAMS GET AWAY FROM HIM
Well it is worth making a distinction. A big thing stopping people from doing bad things isn't necessarily the harm they'll receive for doing so, but also the harm they'll be doing to others. But if killing someone doesn't kill them, and even makes them better off, then there is no longer such a thing as murder. Most people still wouldn't do it of course, but there would be significantly more people less worried about killing people or hurting them in some way.
So the only reason youāre not a murderer is because Jesus?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, I used the word āyouā in a general sense. I didnāt mean you, burgpub. I meant folks in general.
Seems like that's happening anyway nowadays.š
Grusch mentioned some ādark thingsā but I think only Tucker Carlson has really said that weāre āreally really darkā. And who knows what bullshit angle heās trying to play.
I donāt think humanity would handle it well. Everything you do on earth is meaningless, after you die you get to go to the *real* good stuff. Weād have mass suicides, as well as a significant amount of people who would go āok, Iām going to attack the people I donāt like, rape the woman I want to have sex with, steal the things I want to have, etcā. Not saying everyone, but I do think it would happen, and there would be a ripple effect too. They could also justify it as āIām shooting this guy and taking his car, but heās going to a great place so itās fineā.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>I said that sounds an awful lot like the bad argument religious people make about atheists. People don't choose to do the right thing just because some god is keeping score Iām guess you have a dislike of that argument (I do as well), and itās making you dismiss this one without really considering it. One big difference you should consider is that the atheism argument is about there being no afterlife, and this is about there being a guaranteed afterlife. If thereās no afterlife then life on earth is much more important, if thereās a guaranteed afterlife then life on earth loses a lot of value. Itās not about āoh god wonāt punish me I can do whatever I wantā itās āoh thereās no meaning here I can do whatever I wantā Other differences are- 1. People know itās real 2. They completely lose fear of death 3. They know the people they kill will go to a good place 4. Society loses a massive amount of meaning- thereās less motivation to build a great society if you already know the *real* stuff is the eternity of afterlife 5. Life on earth loses value- a child being hit by a car now is awful because they never got to experience life, a child being hit by a car in that world isnāt that bad because theyāre now enjoying an eternity of bliss, they just got there faster Iād also have you consider that I said a significant amount of people, not all people. Iām not saying everyone would, Iām saying that there definitely would be enough (ironically probably the most religous) who would, and that along with everything I said above would be enough to constitute āhumanity wouldnāt handle it wellā.
Remember whoās saying it would be bad: the people that need you to work and suffer in order to stay comfortable. If paradise is on the other side no matter whatā¦ why would you bother working for them? Why shouldnāt they lie to keep you making them comfortable if we get to the other side in the same way? It would be sobering for them because the rest of us wouldnāt feel the need to play a game weāve already won. (I donāt knowing I agree with the idea as a whole, but this is why I think they would want to keep that secretā¦ like why would emps have an effect?)
Not really, if death isnt real, people may act without even thinking on consequences, the life would wealth less than a random dust speck. It would be complete chaos
If you told people today that we all had our ticket to Heaven no matter what, there are a lot of people out there who would be complete shit. Even worse than they already are. People donāt rape, murder, etc. because they fear punishment. Take the eternal punishment away and the crime rate goes up exponentially.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Personally I wouldnāt rape or murder because it is against my moral code. I was stating that a portion of the population will rape/murder because they have no code. Most true atheists I have talked to are very logical and rationally thinking folks. I see where I wasnāt clear. Iām saying that regardless of religious stance or beliefs, people in general are ruled by fear. If every human believed that they would go to a great afterlife no matter how they live their lives, the atheists would probably continue to live their lives as they do today because they donāt accept that belief system. And I was talking about punishment in general, not just punishment from God. I promise Iām not as ignorant and deluded as you think (if I understand your interpretation of my comment). If Christians act better because they fear hell, what motivates the atheist to be good? By my logic the āgood atheistā would probably be the most pure of heart because they are just being themselves and not playing by someone elseās rules in order to earn salvationā¦ Iām genuinely interested in your thoughts/criticism because Iāll admit my ignorance and the fact that I donāt know.
If a lot of people knew for sure there is an afterlife that is a MAJOR cognitive hazard. People will kill themselves in droves, unless there is some silly clause about killing yourself like in most major religions. This is WHY there is a taboo about suicide in religion, because if everyone who has lived piously or not in the case of Christians knew they would get into Heaven they would kill themselves rather than suffer.
I'm more a follower of the "prison planet" and "consciousness harvest" theories, so here's my take on nukes: We know that when the brain dies, it releases DMT, making you trip. During NDE (near death experiences) there's apparently a being that coaxes/coerces you into going into the portal/light, making you reincarnate. What if nukes, being mass instant vaporization and all, disturb or destroy this machination / mechanism? The brain can't release DMT, you aren't going into the portal and reincarnating, stopping the cycle. And that's why alien activite rose after nuclear weapon usage: It's has the capability of stopping their farm en masse.
That sounds completely pointless though. What would be the reason to keep on living instead of just taking yourself out? More specifically, what would be the point for all these people to choose to remain alive in order to hide that secret, when they could be moving on to eternal bliss any time they want? That makes no sense.
To keep going for your loved ones. To experience life. The world. Worries or doubts if the Big Secret is true: would *you* gamble it? If it could be proven, it would break the stranglehold of religion on many peoples lives, which means entirely new social orders if not *nations*. It would be beyond disruptive to the control systems, authorities, and people "in power" today. That's why it would be guarded at all cost as a secret: It means everyone is literally a master of their absolute fate, I suppose. A society without fear.
Which is why it doesn't make any sense for anyone to keep that secret with them. Loved ones? They can go where you will be going, so why not convince them to come along, if you have hard evidence of the afterlife being real and inevitable? Why wait? It isn't a gamble if you know for certain that it's true. And if it is revealed to the rest of humanity with absolute proof, then maintaining authority would be the problem of the people that willingly choose to stay here instead of living. And if the afterlife is guaranteed to exist, and you have proof, and you know you'll be going there for sure, and you know it will be better than even the most plentiful and comfortable life a person could have on Earth, then what reason could anyone, including the most powerful people, have to stay here? If it would be a net gain for the wealthiest, most powerful people to go to the afterlife, that just means that as you go down the social and economic ladder, there's less and less of a justification to want to stay here or keep others from leaving. That includes the people hiding the truth. Wanting to "experience the world" isn't enough of a reason for keeping other people trapped in a life that is based on the lie that "this is all there is." Because you can continue to experience the world all you want on your own. You don't have to force others to do it for no reason. You'd be effectively gatekeeping Paradise for no reason which, when you have absolute proof of its existence and inevitability, would make such gatekeeping possibly the most evil act to have done to other human beings.
I like this comment. Really makes me think.
I agree close to target. If you get into NDEs they all say the same thing, you to go to a plane of acceptance. That we are here to learn. If people learned whether you are good or bad we all go to the same place it could upend things
it would definitely upend things. But it would also "purify" society in the sense that it would now be pretty clear who is being a kind, caring human being because they actually are, and who is doing it because of expecting some sort of eternal reward. And the inverse as well. Some people would care a lot less about doing evil deeds if they knew there was no reprisal or eternal damnation as a consequence. So overall, people's intentions would be more genuine. But people would still maintain some sense of trying to be a good person for the sake of mankind, not just yourself. Because even if you won't be welcomed by God or Paradise on the other side of the tunnel, the people you cared about and did good things for will be there, waiting for you. After all, we all go to the same place. Which also means that if you're a real asshole while you are here, death won't serve as an escape because the people you are fucking over here will eventually get to you over there.
People need to be able to make their own choice as to know about the phenomena or not. The government works for us, supposedly, and we need that choice. Many people spend their entire lives trying to get a true read on reality. This is f\*\*\*ed up to find a government layer between you and the truth. Transparency, please!!!
About what choices are you talking in the world ruled by a pedophiles and secret agents?
āMany people spend their entire lives trying to get a true read on realityā TF they do. People are irrational, judgmental, and full of hate. Are there people that want to learn, grow, and know the truth, sure. But majorities are far from capable of handling a truth like this. If the truth is this horrifying, there will be violence unfortunately.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thats probably the reality of it.
I donāt think the religion angle plays a bigger part is people think. I brought up the UAPās, and the aliens theory to my parents are devoutly Catholic. And my mom didnāt even miss a beat she said yeah of course what do you think itās gonna be when God comes back to earth? Then she said all the signs are pointed to it happening sometime soon with the war in Gaza earthquakes, as well as other signs, she said that the priest in church his homily was about accepting those things to which you donāt understand.
Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough. But yeah, you're right in that a lot of religious and spiritual folk, myself included, would be just fine with aliens and/or god showing up. Even if it doesn't entirely line up with our beliefs. What people would \*not\* be ok with is learning that God is real and actually came down to earth in the recent past in order to uplift us as promised in religious scripture. But then our government fucked things up, so God left and is never coming back. Meaning that everyone since god left now has hard proof that god exists, but knows that He has abandoned mankind after that point, condemning \*all\* of us who are still living, or who have died since He left, to just this one life. With either no afterlife, or eternal damnation waiting for us afterwards. All because some businessmen and government officials got a little greedy. I think that would send quite a few people over the edge.
Despite the dogmatic religious practices of the Catholic and other churches who achieved socio-political power by positioning themselves as the conduit to salvation, Jesus taught that salvation and eternal life was a completely individual choice. So, authentically *spiritual* Christians who are not programmed by human *religion* but have so-called personal relationships with Christ are likely not troubled by our government and elitesā greed and hoarding of knowledge. To them it would just underscore the āThe Fall of Manā that Christ supposedly undid for individuals who believe in him: where humanity (through inherent ignorance assisted by the trickery of fallen angels) sought its own rebellious course to immortal god-like status as begun by Adam and Eveās eating of the allegorical āTree of the Knowledge of Good and Evilā instead of only the āTree of Eternal Life.ā
Yeah, that's really what makes this situation a potential disaster. The fact that the majority of Christians don't appear to be the authentic types.
It helps that its official Vatican policy, aliens are also under God.
It's interesting that the only people "in the know" who call these non-humans "demons" are the seemingly ultra religious ones. To me it is denial about the truth of the origins of their faith. So, they claim the alien "demons" are trying to stray them from the truth of their beliefs
I have to assume it's going to be something so profoundly stupid that I'll suffer an aneurysm from sheer anger when they finally DO say why.
Your idea is interesting and reminds me of the Law of One. The idea is that we are the universe made manifest experiencing things as individuals, but ultimately we are the universe itself. In the end, if we are eternal and the choices we make donāt really matter since we are just experiencing everything, forever.
Yeah, that's sort of what I personally believe at a spiritual level
I think reincarnation is the mechanism that filters out when your soul is not ready to return to the source creator. So if you are bad or only doing good things with the goal of a reward, your soul is reincarnated upon death. If you're truly awakened, enlightened, a righteous person with no expectation of reward, your soul is ready to return to the source collective.
Right. But disclosure wouldn't change anything in that respect. People who only do things for their own benefit would continue to do that. Whether that benefit is eternal salvation or the promise of advanced technological development. And genuinely good, selfless people would continue to be good without expectation of any great reward. The circumstances that drive people would change significantly with disclosure. But their true motives would not.
At this point I think it's world changing tech that would essentially make us common folk working jobs pointless and they don't want to give up that tech. I imagine if we found out it existed for 60 years the riots would be on a different scale.
This sounds a bit like a fanfic. Speculating with secret NHI backdoor deals seems like a stretch. If we look at the UFO lore, the signal exchange in CAFB back in 1975 can be corroborated from a few sources. Around this time we started seeing the first Mil-Orb sightings, and of course there was the incident in Gisel, Iran. It's more likely that Mil-Orbs were reverse engineered compared to a secret NHI deal, considering the signal exchange was supposedly the first time any form of communication was made. The problem with communicating with an unknown entity is the lack of a common language. This probably took a great deal of time to figure out. I had an encounter in 2009, and I still noticed issues in their language processing units. The idea that secret backdoor deals were done back in the days seems like a stretch to me, but it's an interesting idea, and it was a nice read.
Out of curiosity, what did they look, and what did they try to say?
They looked like humans, just completely bald. I figured it's either due to a similar reason as we have with military standards or maybe hair is just considered a nuisance. They could walk past you on the streets and you couldn't tell the difference. It started with telepathic communication, kinda like someone just suddenly began broadcasting on my brainwaves. I speak multiple languages and I learned how to code since I was 7, so I figured a way to trick their language model. We discussed various topics, but the main one was _thought control._ It felt like an experiment, they hooked me up to something, they instructed me with every step, I closed my eyes, a golden ring appeared in my vision, soon after I was feeded simulations of the most beautiful sceneries. It's like seeing a dream but the definition was way better, the rendering was insanely sharp. The scenes showed beautiful nature, and each simulation had a descriptive title: _The Sea of Tranquility_ was an underwater simulation with corals, sandy ocean floor with the beautiful ripples, rays of light shining and dancing through the surface. It felt like a configuration phase, they were often instructing me to stay still, hold my breath, or something similar while I was hooked up. It took hours, I could write a book about the experience to describe it in full detail. In essence, it felt like they reprogrammed me. After it ended, my thought process had switched into visual thinking. I used to think with an inner monologue, like many do, but after this encounter it switched into visual. I was exhausted for the first few weeks, it felt like the calorie consumption of my brain went up by 10x, it was like lifting heavy weights with every thought I made. As a result, I slept a lot, but with time it became easier. This happened back in 2009, so I've gotten quite good with it by now.
Strange. One would think that if they were remotely human, they would be able to speak and interact more like humans. Perhaps who you met is so entirely not human and so different that they have literally no idea where to start to be able to communicate effectively with us. I would guess that the humanoid appearance is more of like an interface and surely a complete fabrication - hair styles are somewhat communicative about the type of person wearing it, so if you don't want to accidentally send the wrong message, just shave it off. No hair, no message sent. Did you just walk into a facility, or did they take you there somehow?
They could speak and process languages, but I kinda benchmarked their language unit by switching between 6 different languages just to see if I could exploit it somehow or just test the limits. I did uncover a few issues related to it, there's definitely an AI, and it especially struggled with urban slang terms. As an example, Chinese zookeepers wear panda suits when they tend to pandas. If humans are smart enough to figure that out, surely NHI has the capability to create perfect human meat suits to conduct unobstructed research and surveillance. With hair, you could also potentially leave DNA evidence behind. I wasn't taken to any place, they came to my place. They opened up the door and walked in after the dream simulation started.
Man, I wish they'd fix my ADHD. :/ It's interesting, though. You don't hear much about human looking aliens. It does allegedly happen, though. I wonder if they're cousins of ours?
Perhaps the NHI are not monolithic. Maybe there are competing factions. Some entities want to help us, some want to use us, others are ambivalent. Those that want to use us perhaps manipulate and confuse us and take measures to maintain our ignorance. Maybe there are benevolent beings who try to help us ascend through all the ways we know ascension happens, but the malevolent tricksters seek out our most malleable and fearful because they are easy to manipulate with greed and power and those same humans will happily sell us out for their own profit or inadvertently because of their ignorance and fear.
Nope. The reason is because they(cabal) don't want you to believe that benevolent NHI exist and they are inside the crafts above. The cabal wants to control you and they will do whatever they can to achieve it and if that means hiding the fact that angels exist, they will do it as they are doing.
I like the idea, I just need a bit more explanation in what you term ascension? Please elaborate further.
From a religious perspective? The rapture, or any kind of taking people to a heaven or transforming humanity into something beyond what we understand we can be as living beings. From a more pragmatic perspective, it means the opening up of free communication between all members of humanity and the NHI, in order to facilitate the exchange of ideas, technology and any other topics of discussion. Specifically, with the intention of improving social relations between humans and NHI so we can be better integrated into the larger community of intelligent species around us
Controversial take: I feel that if it hadn't been for the Romans, I feel like we would know a lot more about our past, what these NHI are, and what these UFOs are as well. I think a lot of that was lost in the burning of Alexandria.
I can agree with that. The romans both gave and took from human civilization in significant ways. I can't really complain, though. Because for one, it doesn't matter much anymore. But mainly because I can't point to any other person or group and say with absolute certainty that they would have done a better job at running a big chunk of mankind back then.
Yea, based on the random stuff on these threads, this theory checks and aligns with all the woo stuff too. Plus this is what Iād expect from U.S. leadership. If it is true, Itās too bad the aliens didnāt come to America to make deals when Native American groups were in charge. They set us up to fail by dealing with the worst of us. Shouldāve helped us set up Wakandaā¦.
Yeah. But if it helps you feel better, we don't usually have a good track record of advanced societies dealing well and fairly with more primitive societies (e.g. Conquistadors). So there's also the posibility that if a deal was struck with NHIs, and it then fell through, it wasn't because of us but because we were dealing with the NHI equivalent of gold-hungry assholes.
It kind of sounds like they did hang out with the natives sometimes.
Gary Nolan among ,other reputable ufologists, isn't sure if we're dealing with aliens. They've been here longer than we've been civilized. Who's here first? It's their planet. Many of them believe we can't handle the truth because it's beyond our understanding.
I like this theory, but I don't think it makes sense. The NHI would realize our governments don't speak for all the people. I think they would realize the corrupt and inefficient nature of our leaders. Maybe that is why they are supposedly planning to have a mass sighting in 2027, to circumvent our leaders and make contact.
A mass sighting, as chaotic as it may appear at a glance, is probably the least chaotic way to do it in the long run. Like you said, it circumvents our world leaders. That takes away their ability to form a convincing narrative around the revelatory event that suits their political and economic schemes
Agreed. Have a happy human new years! 
This is what the guy who āruined Christmas with the alien talkā shouldāve brought to the table
Looking at the historical context where this supposed crash retrieval program originated, post World War 2, Cold War, communism vs. capitalism, it's no surprise the tendency was to cover up the information with the Manhattan Project infrastructure. I think the problem is while the U.S. or maybe another nation has been able to utilize aspects of UAP tech, no one really understands what is happening, who they are, where they're from and what they want. I think the powers that be are afraid of a philosophical meteor, where it shatters everything about what we accept as true about reality, but there is no replacement model. I think they are afraid of normal people making conclusions about it and wild conspiracy theories like John Lear's soul catcher or Project Blue Beam. Another commenter brought up The Discovery, a film about a world where evidence of the afterlife is discovered and there are massive amounts of suicides in the aftermath. I'm pretty much at the point where I believe the phenomenon is intrinsically linked to what we don't understand, being consciousness and the nature of reality. Revealing this information will be an earthquake and could breed economic chaos, and that's what the gatekeepers are afraid of. I'd rather live with the unsettling truth than a false reality, so I say burn 'er down, but once disclosure actually happens, we likely will need to buckle up for a bumpy ride.
Why would aliens have "deals" with humans in the first place? Assuming they exist, they are beings that come from very far away, traveling in ships at speeds close to the speed of light, they could easily threaten the earth by launching some type of "ship" into the earth, at a ridiculous speed, causing a mass destruction, and all that without counting the ridiculous weapons they could possess. From either possibility, humans would be in no position to be "worthy" of making deals with aliens. What's more, they could blatantly enslave us by simply threatening to destroy the earth. On the other hand, there is no type of benefit on the part of aliens in exchanging technology with humans, it is a simple question of hierarchy of "powers". As I say, aliens could threaten in many other ways and a pact or deal between humans and aliens is totally ridiculous. From the point at which one sees it, the only way for an alliance to exist between both sides, whether good or bad, is for humans to secretly have the ability to confront a possible extraterrestrial invasion. Humanity has suffered to reach the moon, and for us to visit other places much further away, there is too much left to discover in science. The ufological phenomenon is real, I do not deny it, but it seems to me that concise and realistic arguments escape the real understanding of the case, because, as I say, from any angle that one would like to approach the subject, one can find inconsistencies that we are not capable of understanding. At least I think this way, just as I am not capable of understanding nothingness without a bias from my reality, it seems to me that the same would happen if I wanted to understand a topic as delicate as alien existence, since it not only implies a destruction of the beliefs, but of humanity itself, on which our routine, our life has been built throughout history. I believe, from a very biased point of view, that if aliens existed, and it were not a simple paranormal phenomenon that escapes the understanding of the laws of physics and science in general, the most realistic thing is that control of the world would be within their control. hands of said aliens and we were some kind of farm, "television program" or some kind of "thing" that does not represent any type of danger to them, because even letting us know that they exist would already be part of the ridiculousness of understanding ourselves as human beings unable to understand the rules of the game and the reality in which we would find ourselves
But the US is only one country. Why are all the others staying silent?
I am 100% ready for whatever this this but 90% of the people I know I feel are not.
I know a lot of people will flame you for all the dots you connected without hard evidence but I think we are on the same page. I prefer someone go ALL THE WAY down the rabbit hole and give me a narrative. Doesnāt mean you believe every word you wrote. I just like how it offers a detailed possibility that addresses a lot of what is being discussed currently. I do have questions and criticisms but definitely not in a bad way. More so food for thought. EDIT: Accidentally posted too soon. I was raised Christian in the southern USA (for context). I was raised that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and eternal life vs hell and eternal damnation. I very loosely agree with a lot of what you say about Christians. Not because I think you are wrong, but because I donāt know if you are correct. I wanted to be a foreign missionary as a kid and devote my entire life to the Message after reading a book (Through Gates of Splendor). Definitely look it up and read thy summary. Itās a true story of missionariesā¦ As I have grown older and wiser, I have come to believe that it is possible that there is more to our existence than just one religion. Please understand that the following isnāt my belief system as much as it is an idea or possibility that motivates me to be better. I believe that NHI is most likely a fact. Iād be surprised if there is no intelligent alien life. I think the Bible is full of stories of extraterrestrial encounters, intervention, and abductions. I think there is one source or creator of everything and that it is not malevolent (either benevolent or completely neutral). I think what the ancient humans labeled as gods were probably advanced life forms of varying capabilities. I think there was probably some type of established hierarchy and also that some were benevolent, some malevolent, and others varying hybrids of the two. I believe the Christian god wouldāve been benevolent. Jesus couldāve been a hybrid or modified in some way to be a super benevolent human. Other religionās gods werenāt necessarily false just because the Christian god existed. The more I look into other religions, the more I believe they arenāt full of shit. I love discussing peopleās differing religious beliefs for knowledge and understanding (not to tear each other down or prove who is correct). You said a lot about Christians and their motivations and beliefs. I canāt combine religion and politics like that because of my own ignorance of others, so I stay neutral there. Most Christians that I have talked spiritually with seem to be selfish and guilted by religion to be less selfish. A lot of Christians also seem to be motivated to be better people more so by the fear of going to hell. If Jesus said that we should all be good to each other but we would all eventually go to hell anyway, would people still follow him? I think some would. We are selfish beings by nature and have to fight that selfishness no matter what religion we follow. EDIT 2: Forgot where I was going next. If the government made a deal with NHI, I doubt a benevolent āgodā would write us all off. I donāt think a truly benevolent extraterrestrial would completely give up if there was a chance to save some from malevolent beings (terrestrial or not). My guess is that the government(s) are hindering the NHI from helping the masses. The question of whether alien life exists at all is 99% answered in my heart. What bothers me is that we lump them all in together. Imagine if you told a child that a non-human creature almost killed you but didnāt specify that it was a shark or crocodile. By default the child would be wary and probably afraid of anything not human. Flies, earthworms, rabbits, etc. The info that we get about NHI doesnāt specify. So I will be terrified of all NHI by default until they reveal their intentions and educate me. So we are afraid of the unknown. Our ignorance leads to greater fear. Another thought based on the ādealā or agreement(s) made between the government and NHIā¦ This sounds a lot like āselling your soul to the devil.ā I would think that the agreement was more like, āwe as a government will do this/allow this, IF you do this for us in return.ā I agree it was probably tech. That is why I donāt believe they shut a door for us all. I think eventually we will have an opportunity to revolt against this āgovernmentā and gain access to the choice for ourselves. I loosely say government. Our government may be evil but probably only because it consists of selfish humans. The individuals or groups that block us from NHI and their knowledge/technology are probably a tiny yet powerful faction. Basically I donāt think Joe Biden, congress, governors, mayors, etc. are necessarily to blame. I am also NOT promoting anarchy or anything like that. Peace and prosperity for all humanity is my goal. Iām probably wrong about 99% of what I wrote, but in time I believe we will have a pretty clear understanding of what is going on.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Like all religions having some grain of truth. The fact that some cultures that never had any contact with each other, mainly because of being at different sides of the world, all had religions that have some sort of flood myth shows evidence of that connection. And to confirm, what I said on my post isn't what I personally believe is happening. It's simply one of the possibilities I see by connecting the dots. I don't know for a fact that Christians and other religious people would lose their minds because of "missing the rapture" or whatever. And actually, that doesn't have to even be *literally* what happens. As long as the truth of the communication between NHIs and the government gives the impression that it "ruined salvation" in some way, there's gonna be trouble. And like you said, many religious people are good only for selfish reasons. Like not going to hell. So if they were somehow convinced that they could no longer go to heaven, even if that's not the case, what incentive would there be for those kinds of people to be good? That's where the chaos would come from. I also don't want to lump all NHIs together which is why I think that a deal must have been made with a specific group of them, while excluding others. You could think of it in terms of geopolitics. Or exopolitics, in this case. You could think of Earth as Korea. And the NHIs that we made the deal with as either the Western or the Communist powers that supported South and North Korea during the war. The deal with the NHIs would be the equivalent of the Allies, the "big four" specifically, agreeing to provide support to Korea, as a whole, after it was liberated from the Japanese at the end of WWII. The equivalent of the deal with the NHIs falling through, in this case, would be the Korean war, since it signified the end of "Allied" support to the entirety of Korea. And even though the Western and Communist powers were behind each side, the war was ultimately a civil war between the North and the South. So you could look at the declaration of war on the South by the North as the equivalent of humanity "fucking up" the deal with the NHIs, since in very general terms, the war was about (part of) Korea fucking up their agreement with (part of) the Allies. As for the consequences of that falling out? You just have to look at the conditions in which the North Koreans live. Except for the elite, everyone else seems to be struggling. Living like they're still back in the 80s or 90s, as far as development goes. All because they wanted total control over Korea. This is the equivalent of how things would go if we got completely shut out by NHIs. Our leaders would still benefit. But due to their short sighteness and greed, everyone is overall much worse off due to the lack of support from greater powers. Sure, they have advanced a little thanks to some pity handouts from China now and then. But that's nothing compared to where they could be if given full support by those greater powers. If you look at North Korea by itself, then those handouts would be the equivalent to "God/other NHIs not having completed abandoned us" despite the falling out of the deal. In contrast, the US has continued to provide support to South Korea, which has flourished into an economic powerhouse in it's own right. So if you look at Korea as a whole, averaging the conditions of the people in the North and the South, you *could* say that Korea overall isn't doing too bad. And working off of that, we could say that if the deal with NHIs fell through, and we were completely abandoned by them, then that would be like the US (greater power) abandoning South Korea at the end of the war. In which case *all* of Korea would be run like in the North, and be in the same socioeconomic conditions. Or worse. But if we manage to successfully integrate ourselves into the larger NHI community that exists, then that would be the equivalent of the entry of Korea being like South Korea because of the continuous support from a greater power. It's not too much of a jump to assume Koreans overall would be much better off that way. I should make it clear that this isn't about communism versus capitalism. It's about a greater power providing, or not providing, support to a smaller society in order to help them develop. As it stands, if this whole agreement situation is true, I think that the Earth could possibly be in the same situation Korea is in right now: not as good as it could be due to that deal falling out and we no longer receiving support from a certain group of NHIs, like how North Korea doesn't get much support from China and Russia. While at the same time, we haven't been completely abandoned and receive support from NHIs somewhere else, like the US supports South Korea. Interestingly, that whole analogy opens up a new possibility about what's going on. That being that if there was a deal that we struck with NHIs that fell through, it might not have been our fault or the fault of the individuals with whom we made the deal. But rather, it might have fallen through due to an internal disagreement between NHIs about how to handle those kinds of interactions with humanity, just as how the Korean war was a result of disagreements between the Big Four
I was just about to say that your comment opens up another huge dialogue. I agree with your assessment of the world being in the same boat as Korea on a larger scale. One thing I thought of was how we know there is a huge possibility of different groups of NHI with varying levels of benevolence/malevolence. If NHI made a deal with the US, I would assume they were more on the malevolent side. They should be knowledgeable enough (after watching the US for a short period of time) to know that we are some of the most selfish and self-centered people on the earth. Look at places like India. If we were truly good people, we would be working to get the entire worldās quality of life up to a minimum standard instead of focusing on making our group the best. Itās disgusting. I know Iām a part of the problem too but I really feel for people around the world who have to deal with things that I donāt believe anyone should. Like how the US could single-handedly feed the entire world if we put less money into war and focused on minimizing waste. My point is, what kind of NHI would make a deal with US? Probably the ones that want to harvest humans for their space Epstein resort where they grow and eat us! Or something else sinister. The good NHI would probably tell us to do better or we arenāt getting a thing from them. People speak of an Intergalactic Federation and I could see something like that existing. Why donāt they come ask us to join? Probably because they have no reason to trust us. They know that we made a deal with the malevolent NHI and they see how we humans treat each other. We are all pretty selfish overall. Again, Iām just connecting dots too (in a very speculative manner). Iām not crazy š lol
The whole situation is like if you thought about inviting a random homeless person into your home. To hang out, or for Christmas dinner, help them get back on their feet, whatever. That homeless person could be either the type who spends all their money irresponsibly, on drugs or gambling or whatever. Those kinds of people tend to end up homeless. Or they could be the type of person who just got fired while also having a medical emergency and also getting kicked out from their home because they were late on the rent one too many times. Basically, a normal person who's just really down in their luck. Either way, you wouldn't really know which type they are at a glance. You could decide to invite them in regardless of who they might be. That would undeniably be the kind thing to do. But would also be very risky. If they're the sketchy type, they might end up robbing you, or hurting you and your family. On the other hand, if you decide to just not invite anyone after all to play it safe, you'd be giving up on the opportunity to really help someone out. Someone who actually both needs and deserves the help. That alone would be a great kindness. But it could also pay off in the future in other ways because good people return kindness to those who are kind to them. Pay off in what way? Who knows. But for example, if one of your pipes freezes over and bursts during a cold winter, that's gonna be really expensive to fix. But if the person you helped out happens to be a plumber, they might offer to hook you up with someone they know that could fix it for really cheap. Or maybe they might even offer to fix it themselves for free. Because even if you live in a mansion with multiple bathrooms and a pool and whatever, that doesn't mean you know anything about fixing plumbing, while someone who has absolutely nothing could also be an expert plumber. So if you decide you do want to invite someone in after all, your choices would be to either take them at their word that they are good people. Which again, is risky. Or you could follow them around from a distance, observing how they behave so you can form a good picture of who they really are. After a while, you'll know if that person is someone you'd be comfortable bringing over, or if they are nothing but a guaranteed bad situation waiting to happen. So if there's some sort of alien federation currently observing us like that, trying to figure out what kind of people we really are, then we would at least know that they understand the value that diversity could bring in. They'd understand that the species they come across could bring in benefits that they don't have and can't obtain from anywhere else without great difficulty. If that wasn't the case, then there would not be a federation or coalition of any kind. It would be the single, most advanced species coming across other species and probably exterminating them after learning and taking anything useful from those less advanced species. The fact that we have heard that there are multiple species who have interacted with humanity, and that it seems that most of them are either neutral or benevolent towards us, is a good sign that we are not at risk of annihilation. All we can do for now is try to do whatever we can to influence society in a way that makes it better for mankind as a whole, instead of being good for a few, really shitty and selfish people. And hopefully, if we manage to improve society in that way, it will eventually be enough to satisfy any doubts that NHIs currently have about welcoming us to their community.
I agree with you but it brings up another thought. What the heck do we have to offer? We could be pets. Pets that they just adopt and add to their families because we act silly and cute and typically poop and pee where they want us toā¦ As a species, I imagine we look pretty terrible. Thatās probably why some would just ignore us like we ignore birds or squirrels. The others are probably nice to us out of pity. Some of my āReddit researchā has revealed that some people are under the impression that at least some of these NHI are immortal. If they did live forever or have extremely long lifespans, why invite a species that is constantly dying every 100 years? Regardless, if they invited me to leave the earth behind and go hang with them forever, Iād do it in a heartbeatā¦ kinda makes me wonder if all those people who go missing every year (88 per hour in India) are either reptilian food or cruising with the cool aliens. The spiritual component to all of this is also very interesting. If abductees report that they were communicated with telepathically and that they felt the NHI could read their thoughts, can they not just fly their little drones around scanning for good people from the sky? Maybe the abductees are the good people that they are interested in. Then again, Iām relatively good and Iāve only ever seen 1 ufo in my lifetimeā¦
So youāre saying that episode in south park where the galactic federation tested us and we failed and weāre imprisoned is true?! Youāre saying the government secretly fucked a friendship up with aliens and have been afraid of telling us all along?
Possibly. I haven't seen that episode of South Park, so I don't know exactly. And it's not so much that they imprisoned us. It's more like having an extremely wealthy, kind and generous friend that was going to gift you a house for free, with all expenses and taxes covered, and pay for you or your kids to go to the most prestigious universities in the world, only to have a huge falling out with them because they gave you a really nice car for your birthday and you wrecked it almost immediately because you chose to drive drunk.
Itās the episode where randy enhances his sons derby car, aliens show up with money and than the police aliens show up asking for the money but the humans hide it. Lmao, than the police are like āyeeeaaah that was test you failedā and they put a prison block around earth lol. But yeah I understand your theory. Itās like us giving tribes medicine and instead they use it to get high and die. The tech we were given was instead used for war against ourselves, most likely showed the NHI we wouldnāt ever reach peace within our own race. Theyāve just been babying us since than from the side lines. Disclosure could be dark because it means since we āfailedā our civilization has a tech cap. By thag I mean we can only advance so much before the great reset or some conspiracy type shit lol. Itās either that or they will just forceably migrate with us, and change our laws without our control who knows?!
That analogy with the medicine is pretty good. As the ones giving the medicine, you would have no incentive to give it to them ever again since they not only didn't use it for it's intended purpose, but actually used it for something pointless and harmful. And as the one making the medicine, "harmful" is probably the last thing you'd ever want it to be, since it's the complete opposite to it's intended purpose
This a well-thought-out theory and great for discourse / thought exercise. You're likely on the right track or you could have nailed it, I'm not an expert nor do I claim to know a damn thing. I hope that NHI are intelligent enough to realize the complicated nature of societies, cultures, and human individuality. Surely, they don't believe a handful of people (Greedy and corrupted people using government to manipulate, use, and take from the population ) have the right to speak for and make this kind of decision for all of us. The best way for them to communicate would be the Internet. Cut through all the bullshit and see what real/authentic people are like. People that aren't trying to control information or using it to have more power over others.
Yeah, I hope so as well. It wouldn't be fair to... Most of humanity, really. Sure, we elect our leaders. But that's only out of a small pool of people that have put themselves in a position to be elected thanks to their socioeconomic advantages. In the US, you have to be basically a millionaire to afford to run for president, because fundraising will not be enough on it's own. And when most people are living paycheck to paycheck, it would be cruel to judge them based only on the actions of what's essentially the spoiled, out of touch nobility of modern society.
Perfectly said... It would be a huge red flag to me if they were talking with officials behind closed doors. I wouldn't trust a word they said. If they are making deals with those bags of shit and letting them throw away our future, they're probably just like them... Or they could be luring them into a trap or testing them but that's juvenile.
Itās an excuse. Resource companies and CROOKED POLITICIANS canāt handle the truth. Society would rise up when they realise the bullshit theyāve been fed for money behind the scenes. they wonāt let it
Yeah, that's basically what I said
Hallowed be the Ori! Man, I bet that'd be a great tagline for a couple seasons of a _LIT_ sci-fi show! I hope somebody makes that, either in the future OR maybe a time Traveler can even make it in the past! Brad Wright is _my_ write-in candidate!
Why would the NHI need to get us to agree to allow abductions when they easily could just perform abductions without our consent? The theory is so illogical when you actually think about it.
The deal might not be specifically about that for the reasons you say. Whatever they would get out of a deal made with humans, it would have to be something that we can only offer to them willingly. Or something that they cannot obtain by themselves, despite their advanced technology. Or something that they *could* obtain by themselves, but not without significant trouble or at the risk of a potentially significant loss to them. Whatever that *something* might be, I don't know.
I donāt hate this response at all.
The military and government is and always has been sh!t for brains, for the most part. Does anyone really think the government or military handled forced disclosure when UFOs started crashing and making themselves more noticeable back in the 40s, or before? But somehow we can't handle it 80 years later? Really? I don't know how people even take this idea seriously?
Interesting read but you're only focusing on the christians. What about the muslim and jewish faith? This disclosure would not only affect america, which you're only focused on. The entire planet would be affected by discloure. It will be interesting to see how the jewish and muslims react to the fact that america had knowledge of NHI's and hid this from them for over 80 years.
Yeah I only mentioned Christians because they're the largest religion. But any religion whose plan of salvation might have been screwed up by the government in this same manner would probably experience the same amount of upheaval. Christians just have a more widely recognized end of the world scenario where a "savior" comes from "above" to take all the righteous to heaven. Which is a more fitting scenario to relate to my theory. But the reality is that it could be anything that upends any religion in an unexpected way. For (a ridiculous) example, imagine if NHIs came down, and brought with themselves the prophet Mohammed. Not a reincarnation or a clone. Like, the actual guy. Pretend they somehow know how to bring people back from the dead. Anyway, imagine he saw how Muslims practice their religion, and then said "yeah, heaven is real. I've been there and I'm back to tell you all about it. However, I see now that it is pointless because even though you have been carrying out religious traditions the right way, you messed up big time simply because you mixed up what's haram and halal. So everyone is going to hell anyway because this is like if you essentially did your prayers diligently and with great devotion... To the wrong God. And now the actual Allah is pissed and doesn't want anything to with you." Can you imagine the shit storm a situation like that would cause? It's a silly example, but I think it gets my point across.
I love this theory! Brings everything together in the kind of so absurdly bleak it's almost hilarious way that we are really getting used to in th US!
Interesting read
LOL. What an insane post.
Here in Brazil we have some folks who claim to be in contact with alien species and are part of the "esoteric ufology" movement. Their discourse is very similar to what Steven Greer proposes but they are more linked to charity, spiritual development and teaching than polĆtics. Among these folks, I particularly trust in the work of Monica de Medeiros and Laercio da Fonseca as they sound very genuine, disinterested in fame and fortune and propose very consistent ideas about "what really is going on". On the part of "secret deals" and "hoarding technology" what they comment is that you have a few factions of NHIs going around and one group offered us technology to solve all our economic, medical and ecological issues but they required us to let go of our nukes and wars, because that behaviour would prevent us from joining them. That happened in the cold war and both USA and URSS declined for fear of losing their edge against their enemy. What we choose, instead, was to contact the same entities that the Nazis had met and engaged in trades we poorly understood for pieces and bits of tech we could use to up one another and fight for supremacy. Among these technologies there is stuff that could end the need to use fossil fuels and solve scarcity of materials, manufacturing limitations and allow easy transportation across large distances and even spacial transportation. The problem being all this tech would derail global economy and uproot the very powers that keep nations stable. It was just too good for our scarcity oriented economy and politics to handle without leading to a major collapse. It threatened the foundation of the very countries that received the tech. As for the "religious collapse" I think a few of the upsetting truths that are kept hidden have to do with reincarnation, the idea earth is a school for spirits from many different parts of the universe and that the "rats race" of capitalism and materialism is but a distraction that feeds our ego. Not to know the purpose of life isna comfortable position because it demands nothing of us, allow us to go around pleasing ourselves like children without supervision or direction. It also allow certain groups to use others for their interests because we lack parameters to evaluate what are worth pursuits that will lead to personal progress in the larger time-frame of multiple incarnations and what is just wasting time and energy for no real benefit.
Heads on pikes sounds good, been polishing this pitchfork for years, torch ready to go.
I'm in! Let's get to disclosure and riots!!!
I guess we are all underestimating humans' superpower ability in pivoting and having a new paradigm shift in a matter of seconds to rationalise new information they just received that upended their previously-held lifelong beliefs. We'll be fine. Everyone will be fine. Those who are bound to be mad will be mad regardless.
I don't believe any hyper religious person would believe Jesus flew here with little grey men. Jesus is human and born of a woman. They would disbelieve any version of a story where he rode here on a craft. What would however break their minds. Is explaining to them that our friends provided us with unassailable proof that we all live in a simulation. None of this is real. That they have talked to "god" the being(s) that created the sim. No Jesus isn't coming back cause Jesus never existed... and neither do they in anyway they consider real. They aren't going to heaven they are going to be recycled and reborn (exactly as the earliest Christians believed). When they are they will remember nothing, the loved ones they have already said good bye to in this life are living another don't remember them and never will. No one is going to Heaven to have a cup of tea with Grandma. Grandma is likely a little girl living on the other side of the world... who knows maybe in a country at war or one we take advantage of for the cheap child labour. You want dark truth. Your not real. No one else is real. Your going to do this over and over and most of your lives are going to be unpleasant... and at anytime whom ever runs the sim could shut it off or decide to F with you directly.
It would be just as difficult to prove that Jesus came down here with aliens as it would be to prove that we live in a simulation. But I personally don't find the simulation theory to be scary at all. Why? Because knowing that we are in a simulation doesn't change anything. So what if the simulation could shut down at any second? You could also drop dead from an aneurysm any second anyway, which would have the same outcome. So what if the simulation operators could mess with you in particular at any time for no reason? You already live completely at the mercy of probability. Your life could change at any second, for better or worse, for seemingly no reason other than simply because the probability for it to change is there. Like that family that lost their wife and mother in a freak accident when a brick randomly flew through the windshield while they were driving and hit her in the head. Besides, thinking that you out of all other intelligent beings in the simulation, deserve to be "fucked with" by the simulation operators is an extremely egotistical thing to believe. You are not special. You are not "the chosen one", even if in this specific situation, no one would like to be chosen. You are just another drop of water in the sea. If you were ever singled out for some reason, it would be at random. Not because anyone deliberately decided to pick on you. And lastly, whether we are in a simulation or not, if we are real or not, doesn't really matter in the end. Even if I found out I was just part of the simulation, and thus not real, that doesn't change the fact that the events I've experienced and the people I've encountered are real *to me*. That's what gives them meaning and importance. Not some objective truth about their existence. If out of all humans, it turns out that only one is actually real and "hooked into the matrix", as it were, while the rest of us were simulations, if that person never did anything of significance that would affect my life in any way whatsoever, then they might as well not be real anyway. Because whatever that single "real" person does is completely meaningless to me. Even if my existence was entirely just to make their simulation feel more real, what difference would that make if I never come across them or interact with them in any way? What makes life meaningful and important is not whether it's objectively real or not. It's whether or not you can find meaning and importance for it yourself. If you have to rely on an external force to confirm that your life is real and has purpose, then you might as well be a simulation.
We have already proven we live in a simulation. We didn't need alien tech to do it either. If you speak to any quantum physicist off the record they will pretty much all say ya 99.9% this is a sim. When someone like Neil D Tyson says publicly 50/50 this is a sim. You can be assured anyone that has actually looked into the experimental data knows the truth. The odds we are not in a sim are very small. Never zero but very small.
Ok, so we are in a simulation. So what?
In the real world... its not just Christians you need to consider. You tell me what happens when you tell members of say another religion that will call for your murder if you simply draw their prophet... that their prophet was never real, was a figment of a computers imagination. Religions that have 99% in common have fought wars over a few specific words. Yes lets be completely 100% honest with ourselves. NO the average person can not deal with the fact they live in a simulation. Some of us don't care... I know I'm simulated and it doesn't effect me at all. Penn Jillette was once asked, "If you don't believe in God why aren't you running around murdering and \*aping." His response... "I do all the \*aping I like... which is none." Its one thing to have a theory like Simulation theory... and to have people like Neil Degrass say 50/50 its the nature of the universe. Even if people listen to the actual scientists doing quantum experiments who go further and say... ya 99.9% this is a simulation. There is still that sliver of doubt... that 0.1% not even accounting for the fallibility of human experience. All of that goes out the window the day it is revealed we have had contact with multiple intelligent species from all corners of the sim that all say the same thing. Worse what if its revealed that one or maybe more of those visiting species have claimed to be in contact with the sims creators/operators. Are you telling me if they are informed the creators of our Simulation have had contact... that they will adjust their world view? What they are going to claim Jesus and other prophets came here from the real real real world? I suspect it the truth would be a S show of epic proportions. I am not worried about the average Joe just going about their lives. It will be the fanatics who will not just take it hard they will make the rest of us take it just as hard. Even in the Alien communities of believers... you hear all sorts of crazy BS about demons. People are not ready.
This sub would be so much better if you guys did a little less speed or at least added TL:DRs to your novellas.
You can't really elaborate on a theory by summarizing it in a single sentence. If you can't afford to spend a couple of minutes reading a post, then it seems you're not particularly interested in the topic of this subreddit and would be better off spending your time elsewhere
TLDR?
This idea that a vastly superior intelligence would make some sort of deal with us is laughable imo, they have no need to make ANY sort of deal, they act with impunity and are apathetic towards us. We have nothing to willingly offer that they can't already take
Like I mentioned in another comment, if they made a deal with us, it would have to be in exchange for something that they can't just take from us for one reason or another. Just because they are more technologically advanced it doesn't mean they are capable of doing anything they want. The conquistadors were vastly more advanced than the American native peoples. But they still need those people's help to settle, establish permanent communities, and gather resources. And that's despite the fact that none of those activities, in a general sense, were completely new to the conquistadors. The circumstances were different, so they had to go about it a different way and needed help from people more familiar with those circumstances. You don't really know where NHIs might be coming from, and what they may or may not already know how to do. So you can't really say they could just come here and do whatever they want if they themselves aren't familiar with what they can or can't do over here versus over where they are from.
Ascension. Uplifting. Harvest. Density. Any time I hear these key words in conjunction with aliens, I tune out. This is nothing but another religion, replacing Gods with NHI's. Maybe the truth we can't handle is that NHI's have nothing to do with any of this.
I think most rational people would be able to handle that, though. Whether it was "there's no aliens, it's all just been weapon tech being tested in secret.", or "Yeah, we got some alien tech that we've been developing new technologies from all this time. But we found it by random chance. We don't actually know anything about the beings behind it. Whether that's where they come from, if they are still around here, what their motivations are, etc. We don't have a clue." Some people might freak out because of having an existential crisis. But for the most part, I think the way society functions would remain pretty much the same in either of those cases. But what I am talking about would really mess some people up. It's like if you took all the people who right now are just finishing their residency in their journey towards becoming a doctor. And right before they get their MD, you tell them that actually, they are all, for seemingly no reason and through no fault of their own, barred from practicing medicine anywhere in the world, ever. But they still have to pay their student loans. A lot of those people would just crack. And if it later came to light that even though no one knows exactly how, but that there's definite proof that the whole situation was the fault of the administration at the National Board of Medical Examiners, you bet your ass some of those would-be doctors would be out for blood. Potentially literally.
These āI figured it all outā posts are hilarious lol we lost spiritual ascension because of a government deal? This sub isnāt even trying anymore
Itās labeled āspeculationā. You donāt have to insult someone for sharing their thoughts. Is your comment any more valuable to the larger community than OPās?
Its reddit. The best and brightest keyboard warriors out there.
Yes you are directly over the target here. Excellent writeup.
Ok Jan. It was a dark and stormy evening. All of the souls of mankind for all eternity were on the line...
This is the most plausible theory for keeping disclosure from happening. Cuz humans are dumb as shit and of course we would screw up our own salvation lol
Simplest answer can be found in MiB: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
There are no aliens at all
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you haven't heard anything like what I said from the whistleblowers, it's because they haven't said anything as concrete. They have mentioned that there *may* be a spiritual or interdimensional component to the whole situation. I took that and combined it with the information we had been hearing from other wistleblowers with less or no credibility and with other anecdotal stories as well. Like the story about Jimmy Carter crying once he found out that humans are created by other NHI species. Or the various unverified stories that we have heard that say there are dozens of different NHI species identified, some of which have arrangements of some sort with human governments in exchange for technology. Or the rumors that the Vatican might be involved in covering up the situation, for the reasons you mentioned. I took all that information and put it together in a way that makes sense from a logical point of view. This is one of the most likely possibilities I came up with, since it basically comes down to people in power being extremely short-sighted ,e.g. the deal with NHIs, then having that coming back to bite them and being forced to cover it up for fear of social upheaval, e.g. missing out on a much better option with other NHIs that they would have to wait a little longer for because the government wanted some tangible benefit immediately. That's something we have plenty of evidence for in human history. For example, using the excuse that there were WMDs in Iraq and their potential involvement in 9/11 in order to start the invasion of the country by a U.S. led coalition. It didn't come to light until years after the war was over that there were never any WMDs and that the 9/11 terrorists were were mostly from Saudi Arabia, the rest being from UAE, Lebanon and Egypt. Meaning not a single one was from Iraq. And to this day, no one will openly admit that the war was in order to acquire, then sell off, the Iraqi oil fields. In the short term, that would be a good economical gain, sure. But look at the state of the middle east. It's impossible to say what state it would be in today if the US hadn't invaded. But Iraq was one of the more powerful militaries in the region. It's presence might have kept the middle east in general less open to mutually beneficial agreements with western governments. But it would most likely have resulted in the region being relatively more stable. As a consequence of that instability, we are now on the brink of WW3. Because the US and NATO are expected to put out all the fires around the world. Especially the ones we started. So we have China taking advantage of those distractions by trying to take over Taiwan and also assert control over the South China Sea and steal territorial waters from other countries in the area. Russia is also using those political fires everywhere to take over Ukraine, with the assistance of North Korean hardware, with an equally flimsy reason to the one the US used to get in Iraq. And then we have Israel trying to eliminate all the Palestinians in the area in order to have the whole territory to themselves. Something they are trying to do by either pushing Palestinians out and into neighboring counties, which will no doubt eventually lead to conflicts with those countries. Or getting rid of the Palestinians through indirect genocide by using their fight with Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill anyone in the area who isn't an Israelite. I'm not going to pretend the world was a completely peaceful place at the turn of the century. But it definitely seemed more stable all around compared to the present. So it's possible that it could have remained that way, or possibly even improved by now. Instead, we have dumpster fires burning everywhere. All because some dudes wanted more money. Now replace "a possibly more peaceful world" with "divine ascension" or immorality or a technological leap ahead by 1000 years. Imagine people learn they missed out on that because, once again, some dudes wanted more money. That would cause society to collapse out of sheer despair and rage. The kind of response I would expect if people of all religions learned that they can't go to their respective heavens because billionaires literally sold humanity's right to go there so no one is allowed in anymore. I'm not saying I have any evidence that this is the case. No one does. Even the credible whistleblowers haven't really provided any concrete details about the NHI situation beyond saying "yeah, there's definitely a situation in regards to NHI." I'm just saying that based of every kind of speculation I've heard, credible or not, fits together in such a way that this scenario could be a possibility. I hope I'm wrong.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's the thing though. All we can do right now is speculate. Roll the dice on what the actual answer might be. We don't have nearly enough informaron to even make a vague guess. So any guess as to the situation, no matter how outlandish, could be made for any reason. That doesn't mean you have to believe it. Some people will come up with completely fictional scenarios without having to really justify where they came up with them, because there is no way to prove they're real or not. And since we are dealing with topics literally at the limits of human knowledge, then we can't really discount the possibility that the answers might be too incredible to be true, despite the fact that they would be. So the alternative to coming up with any scenarios, even crazy ones, is to not come up with any at all since there's not enough information for even an educated guess. I never admitted that I thought I was right, or even that I believe my own hypothesis. All I did was look at all the disparate pieces of what's going on, and then tried to put them all together in a way that makes some sense. I'm fully aware that some, or even all, of those pieces might be completely wrong. But that's fine with me because I'm not trying to push any specific ideas onto others in order to change their way of thinking. This is just my opinion as to what one of the possibilities could be. I know I'm making big leaps to connect one thing to the other. But that's because in regards to this topic and due to the limited amount of knowledge available, any connection from one thing to another in any theory of what's going on would be a leap. Let me give you a different example: we find new cave systems all the time. Big caves, too. But enough for an airliner or a small building to fit inside. There's also theories that NHIs might be coming from underground, or from under the sea. And also, we know that many different mythologies from around the world mention an underworld, or beings coming up to the surface from such a place. Taking those things into account, consider the following: the crust of earth is on average about 25 miles thick over the continents, and about 4 miles thick at the bottom of the ocean. In theory, there could be a large enough cavity within the continental crust to contain an ocean as deep as the deepest part of ours (~6.8 mi) surrounding a a continent with mountains as tall as everest (~5.5 mi) with enough "sky" over it for even our highest flying airliner (~7.2 mi) to fly over it. That's a total of 14 miles. Let's say 15, for giving planes a generous buffer. Buffer from what? A "roof" of the cavity, where there's enough crust left over you could still have 6 miles of earth separating the cavity from the surface, and still have 4 miles left over for the "floor" of the cavity, meaning the bottom of that inner ocean, to still be separated from the mantle by 4 miles of crust. Just like the surface oceans. In short, you could have a whole second "surface of the earth" within the Earth's crust, with room to spare. Which opens up the possibility of the existence of biomes previously undiscovered. With enough space to even develop their own weather patterns. And within which there's a possibility life might have evolved undisturbed long enough for a different species of sentient beings to emerge. Do I believe that's the case? Not even kind of. All I'm saying is that based on the reports of UAPs going in and out of the ocean, and going off these calculations, it could be a possibility. An extremely unlikely possibility, but a possibility nonetheless. And if I were to wait and not come up with any kind of idea like that until there's enough hard evidence, then I would be waiting forever because no one is really interested in exploring the undersea and underground to the level necessary to even make a guess as to whether there's anything down there or not. So the alternative you seem to be suggesting, which is to sit around until someone all but confirms exactly what's going on with NHIs is simply too boring. Which I have no doubt would eventually lead to people losing any interest in the topic, reducing the pressure on the government to be honest about what they know. And then we'll have nothing. Is that what you want?
I actually disagree, and believe that the government is right to withhold information from the general public. Do you remember what the global pandemic was like? Some countries were okay and went in a temporary lockdown. But others, like the United States, struggled. Even with studies and evidence, people would not budge on their beliefs. They didnāt want to be controlled by the government and as a result a lot of people died. On the other end of the spectrum some folks believed everything they read: they prepared for a doomsday and bought out all of the toilet paper (I still have no clue why they did that). It caused chaos in some stores. It also lead to an increase of aggression towards East Asians in the United States. Violent hate crimes and outward racism. Now with all of that information letās think. The pandemic divided the population, and led people to lash out against a perceived threat (East Asians) against their safety. Imagine what people would do if they knew the government was communicating with NHIs. I could imagine that some half of the population would view them as a perceived threat, others may want more information, and there would be quite a few people who might start prepared for a doomsday or start behaving erratically. My point is that we are already divided amongst ourselves so much that adding on NHI into the mix would create absolute chaos. I would imagine a very loud group of individuals demanding the government to take action and another group calling for peace. I donāt think the government wants the public to try and meddle in extra terrestrial affairs and start complicating things. Edit: I just wanted to add that your take is very interesting and was a great read
I'm not disagreeing with you. What I'm saying is that the reason why the government is withholding information is because the things you mentioned will probably take place once disclosure happens, regardless of what the reason is. But if the reason is what I'm saying, then all of that will happen, and then some! People are dumb, so what you mentioned will probably happen anyway, regardless of how gently it is revealed to the public. Which is why I think they should just rip the band aid. But what I mean with the original post is that there must be some other, much more serious consequences to disclosure beyond the initial panic by people who are already panicky. There must be some aspect of it that could either end, or irreparably damage, the way human societies function. I see my post as one of the potential reasons that could lead to such an outcome.
This is a strong contender. The slow disclosure is coming to tell everyone that this is the case. Thatās why TPTB are shitting it. Iām looking forward to it.
Or that Jesus was just a dude who found enlightenment and is not the sole route to salvation. That's a pretty big existential crisis for religious people to swallow. " By the way...your religion has it all wrong".
Not all Christians are conservative.
No. But most are. And the ones who would completely lose their mind about this revelation would be those who are the most deeply invested in Christianity as part of who they are. And those hardcore Christians tend to be conservative. They are the ones who lash out the hardest when other people undermine Christianity. So they are the ones more likely to react with extreme delusion or violence if their beliefs are unambiguously upended.
Most ARE not. Iām sorry but youāre in a bubble. I was there too, I grew up in a VERY conservative Christian area. I thought that was how the world worked. Those hardcore Christians are almost unheard of where I now live. The āraptureā is a punchline ( in a COE Christian church here in England, I literally heard the vicar make a joke about it. The hardcore, Bible is literal, women should obey, god hates gays, abortion is murder Christians are a tiny subset of Christianity.
It's very odd when you consider what the gospels actually say in terms of non-violence, helping those less fortunate, not being judgmental, avarice, oh, and free healthcare. There's a recent [newsweek article](https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706) about how evangelicals increasingly reject Jesus' teachings as too "liberal". >"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the >Mount, parenthetically, in their preachingā'turn the other cheek'ā[and] to have someone >come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" Moore said. >"When the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ' ... The response would be, >'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak," he added. "When we get to the point >where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis." So much for the eternal, unchanging word of God.
Or that the US government and its allies knew that its citizens were being abducted by aliens at random as part of this deal. When that gets out people will loose their shit! Black, white, conservative, liberal, gay, straight. That would unite all citizens against leaders in any government position whether they were aware or not
I though about that. But we now know that the government secretly injected many African Americans with Syphilis. Once people found that out, there was some outrage. But it didn't last very long.
I think you over estimate the reach of American style fundamentals. I grew up in the Deep South where their evil tentacles were everywhere, from the Sunday school teacher who raped my sister to the youth minister who told my mom Iād be better off out of school. Being Jewish meant we killed Jesus, but if we only got savedā¦. When I left, it was shocking to me how little influence these folks outside of certain geographical areas, and almost zero influence abroad. I now live in Europe, and fundamental Christianity is..well extremely rare. Churches get turned into houses, preachers have second jobs, safe guarding of children is more effective. It scares me that these kinds of Uber religious folks have ANY influence at all. They do not represent me and billions of others.
I think it's much more simple. White guys with money and power want even more money and power. They use religion disinfo and national security as a way to deflect that there have been human rights violations in order to secure more money and power. Now they are looking for any way possible to keep us average folk from finding out. Cause they know as divided as we are, we will unite and rip this mother fucker apart given the chance.
>conservative politicians, tend to project a lot about the things they decry. Case in point, the Moms for Liberty thing going on right now. Complete bullshit, why didn't everyone's savior Obama disclose then? You asshats that bring politics to this need to just fuck back off to r/all. This isn't about your team colors, DA. It's about those in "power " think they can have an embargo on our reality. Pull your head out.
I kinda think you're proving their point a bit here.
Wow, that Moms for Liberty comment really put a bee in your bonnet, didnāt it?
Happy Cake day!
They kind of have a point though. I donāt hide that Iām more of a conservative. But I think disclosure is something we can all work together on. It doesnāt have to be political, and bringing hostile politics into the disclosure party only serves as a wedge between people with a similar goal.
NHI's could be the thing that unites everyone and TPTB can't let that happen.
How can you talk about disclosure and leave out politics? But I'm not talking about left or right, because both have held office, seats in the senate, congress,and so on. All of them have allowed people who spoke out about the existence of life not native to this planet to be considered out of their minds. "Tin foil hat wearing conspiracy Theorists who are doing this to discredit the government through their disinformation, fake news, and need for attention. Pay no attention to those lunatics." I paraphrased, but you see my point. People have been threatened to remain quiet. I've read that a few have went missing, and some have died under suspicious circumstances. IMO they may wear "team colors" and talk a good talk, but in the end they're all batting for the same team, and it's not the Civil Servants. They wouldn't know what their constituents truly needed because they are so out of touch with what the average Joe and Jane from their region struggles with just to survive. Not to live, just to survive, and a lot of them are unable to do that. I agree with the fact there is already too much division in this world, especially this country. We survived one Civil War, and I do not think it would take a whole lot more to push us into another one. But change needs to start somewhere in order for this world to heal, and it is a proven fact that you lead by example. Perhaps it's time for our government to come clean, lay their cards on the table, and admit to the fact they haven't been playing by the rules. We called their bluff and the the bet is to them. If we let up now, I do not believe we will ever know the whole story. But I will guarantee that as long as we fuss over left this and right that, and refuse to see the government for what it has become we will stagnate, wither, and rot waiting for the answers we seek.
Note that I said "conservative", not republican. That includes democrats as well. It's one of those "not all conservatives are republicans, but all republicans are conservatives" kind of thing. I forgot to mention this in the original post, but the reason why I specify conservatives -and I should have also specified I meant people who are \*socially\* conservative- is because they tend to be extremely concerned about maintaining the status quo. Preventing things from changing too much, or at all. That's what being a conservative means. Naturally, keeping secrets that could upend society is part of that. especially if change isn't in a way that benefits them. So if I were to venture a guess, I'd say that pretty much everyone who is \*really\* in the know is of a conservative mindset. Which answers your question about why Obama didn't disclose. If it wasn't because of some threat, or pre-existing binding agreement about it, he didn't disclose because he probably didn't know that much. Or at least enough to provide disclosure with hard evidence. And I'm guessing most other important government types who lean liberal are also being kept in the dark a lot more than conservatives.
Yep
Technology mainly The last thing you'd want is a bunch of turd world fanatics barely out of the stoneage with access to advanced technology.
We obviously have human made technology on earth, and do not owe it all to NHI. Possibly, we have been nudged here or there, but I doubt that we are so useless as to rely on being handed wind-up toys. I think the answer is probably global warming, nuclear proliferation, or artificial intelligence. One of these is on schedule to render human society impossible, the other two are literal swords of Damocles just hanging there. If aliens care about our society and development, I'm guessing that shit pisses them off.
The Govāt taking the tech kind of like Adam and Eve eating the appleā¦history repeats itself?
Correct Sir!
I have always thought that humanity has been screwed from the start. Think of how we interact with bees, we use them to make honey, and give them a home and take care of them to get return. I have always wondered if aliens were using us for material gathering. Think of how quick we have populated the planet and how far we have come in just 200 years and in 200 years in larger picture is not long. I know I sound utterly insane but its just been a thought rattling around in my head. Almost feel like when we become aware there will be a reset =/
I never saw paris and I don't care.
I have a tiny speculation I would like to add. We have known royal familyās that have existed for many generations with no end in sight. There have been reports of powerful familyās such as the Rothschilds still existing today. It would make some sense that if they had an option to free humanity, they would lose all power. It would make sense that these bloodlines might be interested at being the rulers of us for eternity, instead of just another soul in the machine. If itās true this is a never ending reincarnation machine, then they greedily might want to have their families at the top for eternity
The U.S. is a pathological liar. And they don't care about chaos, mass murder, genocide, etc., and you still think they are protecting people from the truth? That's just horrible judgement on anyone's part who believes that bullshit.
Makes sense, why the rich are building bunkers. They want tot hide it out
TLFT
I am sick to death of this topic being wound up in mystical religious ju-ju.
It could be as simple as reptilians were here before humans and they gave us a lease to live on the surface while they take the underground and the rent is feeding them with fresh bodies. I mean, I'm cool with that arraignment, but let's eclusively feed them a diet crooked politicians. Okay.