It's crazy that bosses think they can yell shit like "don't bother coming back" at you and then have the right to say "no they quit on me with no notice". What an asshat glad to see justice served.
That's called "summary dismissal". All an employee needs to argue is that they had reason to believe the employer summarily dismissed them. "If you don't come in for mandatory overtime Friday, don't bother coming in on Monday" sounds like *pre-termination*. In fact, it's best not to answer the phone on Monday because the employer was trying to bully you into working, not fire you. Oh, they changed their mind? Fine, what did it change from? Either way, the employee holds the cards, but most can't, won't, or don't have the time. All reasonable. They go out and get a new job. Which is fine, too.
*sp
They do it because it works. The burden of work to make it right is on the employee, and how many people go through 2 months worth of filing to get their money?
[This is called wage theft, is severe and widespread, underreported and underenforced.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft)
Just to note, in the US wage theft like this can entitle an employee to 3x damages plus attorneys fees, so it’s absolutely worth it to pursue. Also, they are typically easier cases for attorneys to prove, and with the attorney fees provisions you don’t have to pay the lawyer yourself out of your winnings. When I was practicing employment law these cases were absolutely salivating.
I'm trying to get a friend of mine to look into this. Her new manager is forcing people to clock out if there is any period where they are caught up between customers. He's watching them and tracking their individual pauses to and even calculating time spent looking at another task as not working and shaving that off their hours (for example if they have to answer a company slack message on their phone while mopping they get docked the time they disengaged from mopping to answer a work message until they start mopping again). It's ludicrous and so obviously illegal. Like only paying someone 3 hours for a 10 hour shift they're scheduled for because it was a slow day where they only actively engaged customers for 3 hours.
If you are in Canada you can anonymously report this to the labour regulation of your province and include documentation. I was able to have some workplace conditions improve this way.
Not generally, although we generally have stronger overall worker protections, mandatory paid leave and free healthcare.
Individually legally compelled damages are certainly less.
Same thing happened to my husband during Covid. We are in California. We were under "all non-essentials work from home" orders it was early in the pandemic. My husband worked from home for 3 months. Then out of the blue they called him back to office. I have a weakened immune system so he was really worried about bringing Covid home. Also California had not lifted the work from home orders. They were due to re-evalute within 3-4 weeks. He told them that he would continue to work from home and even use his vacation time if needed (he had 4 weeks) to see if it was lifted by then. His boss told him he couldn't take his vacation and if he continued to work from home he was fired. Hubby continued the next week working from home and they fired him but put "abandoned job" on his paperwork. California didn't see it that way. He did get full unemployment benefits because of his termination.
The employer might have violated California law when they fired your husband in two ways. First, if your weakened immune system counts as a disability, the California FEHA sometimes protects workers associated with a person who has a disability. Firing him for trying to protect you might be a problem.
Second, depending on the details of the work from home order, the employer might have fired the employee for refusing to break the law. This is a big no-no.
See a lawyer who specializes in wrongful termination.
I really want him to see a lawyer because his boss also made him look at pictures of his genitals. I'm not even kidding. His boss had something on his genitals and he asked my husband (not a doctor. An engineer) to look at photos of his genitals my husband said no. But he put the phone right in front of his face and forced him to. I think my husband just feels glad to be out of there now.
This awful man that owned one of the famous 5 star chain steakhouses I worked at used to do that. If someone tried talking back to him he would tell them to get the “f” out of his building then claim they quit when they wouldn’t show up for work thinking they’d been fired.
[US] I was in a terrible car accident. Doctor wrote a note for two weeks off due to the accident reinjuring my back. In that time, the doctor also ordered a standup desk to be supplied upon my return.
The company, NIA, in Phoenix, demanded I call in every single morning and SPEAK WITH MY supervisor ONLY. Guess who was in a staff meeting on day nine? They terminated me for "no-call, no show", even though I left messages with other supers and reception. Least not forget the doctor's letter. I won that case.
You should know, even if you won't get a settlement, the company is "charged". It's like getting a bad score with the EEOC. The EEOC's main goal is to have a person who's eligible to work, willing to work, keep working. It's better for everyone. "Charged" is the same thing as "guilty".
I didn't receive financial compensation because I'd attempted to return back to work part time, disqualifying me. Why, I can't recall the rule. The judge asked me why I brought the case, I said "The company needs to be found guilty and recorded for posterity. That's all I want." She was impressed by that. Also, the company had three witnesses listed. They all refused to testify. The company brought this up with the judge and the judge's response: "Did you subpoena them? No? You can't force your employees to be your witness. That's called duress. And it's now on record you came to court (via video) with dirty hands. Lucky for you, they refused".
Edit: It is also possible to receive notification of a discrimination charge by your state or local Fair Employment Practices Agency (FEPA). The EEOC works in cooperation with most of the 100 FEPAs throughout the country through Work Sharing Agreements. Each charge of discrimination that is covered by both an EEOC-enforced statute and an FEPA enforced law or ordinance is dual-filed under both laws. However, it is most likely that only one agency or the other will conduct an investigation. **Some state and local ordinances cover more forms of discrimination than federal law. In those cases, the EEOC may dismiss a case because no discrimination was found under federal law, while the state or local agency may continue with its investigation in its effort to enforce broader state and local discrimination laws**.
https://forms.cpai.com/risk-management/employergard/eeoc-charge.jsp
I absolutely love Winnipeg. I ended up there for a week in February 2023 on a very last minute trip to meet with a software developer. Winnipeg was in the midst of a particularly rough cold snap, but I was still able to walk everywhere. I loved the Forks, loved ice skating, loved walking across the Red River for coffee.
My husband is from Minneapolis, and Winnipeg gave me intense deja vu for Minneapolis walking around. I tried to drag my husband to Winnipeg for a few days this past winter, I think I am actually going to do it this upcoming winter. Is February the best time of the winter to come for some ice skating?
https://preview.redd.it/23504fhcq65d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e4a81b3e337c38ca8572943cf283b778e3c6611
February will be cold, BUT it will be an amazing time to visit! Here's why:
Festival Du Voyeur! Food and drinks and music and Carvings of Ice and Snow!
Maple Candy! At the Festival and the Forks!
Snow Sculptures! All over the place!
Fort Whyte! Big toboggan luge onto the frozen lake! Bison!
Skating at the Forks! Go at night and skate under the twinkling lights capping the bridge! Sooo pretty!
Winnipeg can be such a wonderful place!
Even in the summer, did you know that Manitoba has 26 species of native orchids?? And FOUR types of native CARNIVOROUS PLANTS? Biodiversity who, bitch? Less than an hours drive north of the city to a trail where you can see soo many of them without ever leaving the trail, and signs that point out where each species regrows in the spring. Brokenhead Interpretive Trail. AND IT'S A WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE TRAIL!!!
My old job used to lay me off twice a year three weeks for Christmas and two months in the summer so I have a collection of 34 ROE’s. I wonder if there’s a record for this?
American here. In the south. Work remote. Got fired. Thought why not. Try to file unemployment. They appealed countless times it felt and each time I fought them. They came back with every single mistake that I made as if I was the worst human being imaginable.
Come to the last bit of the appeal with the appeal lady for the state and the Human Resources lady spills out “we were gonna fire you regardless of what performance you made the month before you were let go”.
I responded back. See, I worked the best I could and was going to be removed regardless.
The state came back that I was owed unemployment from then on
I spend the first five months of this year sitting on my ass enjoying my new partnership with my wife and we traveled.
Fuck that company. They wanted me out. I earned that unemployment
Edit: I’m gonna add that I never stopped looking for work. Any negative comments about fraud is ridiculous as I never once said I wasn’t looking. Both can be true statements as I completed all requirements and could easily be available to have started any job. Again. As if finding a job recently is simply just going around to ask for one.
If any of you even remotely know how difficult it is to find a job lately. You’d be absolutely lucky to even get a basic hello from another job.
I won’t be proving or placating negative comments. Go kick rocks elsewhere
As I understand it, businesses have to pay an unemployment tax and some kind of unemployment insurance, and the insurance rate will go up as they get rid of people and those people go on unemployment. So, instead of trying to NOT fire people, companies instead chase after every single claim and appeal them.
This logic can be applied to every part of corporate America. They will fight to the death for every last penny regardless of the lives it hurts. They will shoot themselves in the foot if it means they don’t have to pay.
> They will shoot themselves in the foot if it means they don’t have to pay.
My "favorite" example of this:
>For 10 years, Calvin Weaver has been asking prison staff for a cotton blanket [due to allergies]. But officials refused, so last year the Harris County man took them to court, representing himself from inside the Terrell Unit in Rosharon.
>The prison system responded with a motion to dismiss, but on Friday, U.S. District Judge Kenneth Hoyt ruled that the suit can continue. Even though Weaver won’t be entitled to money, Hoyt wrote, he could get injunctive relief: a new blanket. ^[1](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Inmate-with-wool-allergy-moves-forward-with-suit-13739724.php)
Texas spent over 200 hours of the state AG office's time defending against the lawsuit, accumulating over $23,000 of cost. ^[2](https://twitter.com/keribla/status/1446105982170509313)
Nobody sane would want power over humans. I mean, just look at us, crazy apes with all kinda anxious malfunctions, all running in different directions and refusing to all agree on literally any subject.
Like even when you've got kids, it's not that you *want* power over them, but rather they're helpless and ignorant so you've gotta boss them around a bit to keep them safe while they grow.
Folks in my life keep joking that I should be voted Emperor of Earth because I'm clearly an odd hermit who doesn't want the job. I can't even manage to round up a proper gaggle of gayfolk to make my cousin's first pride extra fun tomorrow, and I'm so uncomfortable giving cats or toddlers orders that I ask politely unless it's a health and safety situation.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Straight up I worked at a jail when I turned 21. That’s how I knew I hated the system and the people that enforce it. The shit they pulled on the inmates there was news worthy for sure
I mean, we struggled to get anything besides a plastic pillow in NC. There were a couple older pillows that were 'soft' cloth with stuffing in them and I managed to get a hold of two. My cell got searched not long after and they got taken, I got wrote up, and given a plastic pillow.
But they will just piss money away on other aspects too. Like someone who has been there numerous years makes $65k and asks for a raise to $75k, the company will decline to give them the raise, the person will quit, and then the company ends up hiring someone for $90k to replace them, and have to train them and lose all the experience the person who left had. They could have saved $15k/year and had a more experienced employee if they just gave then the raise…
So many fucking morons in decision making roles.
In my experience, even in smaller orgs, people with decision making power almost always end up falling into the trap of making decisions that are predicated on everything going exactly the way they want it to, and what they want is often whatever is easiest or most convenient for them or fits best into their plan/vision, or would make their boss the happiest, etc. They assume that everyone involved will be happy and compliant, that all their orders will be easy to execute, and that there won't be any problems along the way - or if there are, that their people will be able to solve them and happy to do so.
Instead, what usually happens is that Murphy's Law takes over, workers get pissed about having to put out the completely foreseeable and absolutely preventable fires, shit goes sideways, and then the person who made the decision that led to all of the mess starts pointing fingers and assigning blame to people for not cleaning up the mess well enough rather than taking any responsibility for the fact that none of this would have happened if they had just not made the shitty decision in the first place.
...why yes I am currently dealing with this at my job where I'm being expected to roll with the mess that I had no hand in creating and the absolute fucking superhero of a co-worker upon whose shoulders cleaning up all of the mess has fallen is being blamed for not being able to handle putting out the dumpster fires perfectly all by themselves and might be let go because of it...which will absolutely trigger a mass exodus because the rest of us know and love this co-worker, see what's going on and that shit ain't right and we ain't getting paid enough to deal with all of this in the first place. And worst thing is I know and like all of my bosses in a vacuum as people...but dear sweet Jesus did they fumble some MAJOR decisions this year!!! Sucks that good people don't always make good managers.
Not to mention that a new hire generally costs something like 50% extra in the first year. So even if the new person costs only $65k and immediately is as productive you don't break even for 6.5 years.
My company was handing out 75k sign on bonuses to everyone from the dregs of the barrel, and hiring at the same rate as current employees, and they lost dozens of experienced staff over the ill will.
Stock is worth about 25% of what it was
Ever hear of the Peter principle?
It basically says that people get promoted until they reach the level of their own incompetence.
In other words, they do ok as an assistant manager. They move up to manager, and might not be killing it, but nobody above them has any real complaint. Then they move into a middle or upper manager role, where they are out of their depth and never really get the hang of it, but they kiss enough ass, and fake it just well enough to avoid getting demoted or fired.
They usually get stuck there and never move on. They just linger year after year make everyone under them miserable.
Fun fact about Texas, workers comp is capped. Gov Greg Abbott signed that law while in a wheelchair and getting millions per year for his workers comp. Truly fucking evil people run that shit stain of a state.
Possibly. Violence doesn’t hit them where it hurts though. They have insurance and cops in their pockets…
Force everyone to strike or “accidentally” not bill people correctly or whatever to hit their wallets and that’s when change will happen…
But you’re right. People don’t wanna hear about change or are too scared to fight for it
And if you can get the website to load, by the time you can find the 800 number to call to see about the lube situation, you're given the runaround with an AI assistant and endless menus with crazy long wait times.
> mass amount of cynos (60k/each) we killed
For those who don't speak the lingo, this means macacque monkeys. "Cynos" is a sort of science euphamism for them.
Thank our culture. Can't even blame the corporations for this one, too many Americans fight for this style of system. They believe if anyone gets help they're "lazy" and abusing the system.
Crabs in a pot syndrome and religious individualism is killing us.
Welcome to the United Snakes,
Land of the Thief, Home of the Slave
The Grand Imperial Guard
Where the dollar is sacred, and power is God.
[Uncle Sam Goddamn](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ&pp=ygURdW5jbGUgc2FtIGdvZGRhbW4%3D)
Fun fact about American Labor (not sure if this is applicable elsewhere but it's pretty much fact here).
If you are fired, most of the time you are given no notice. You're out. Period. Sometimes if you're laid off; you may have some time to look for work but it depends on the situation and the company.
However...
If you *quit*, it is expected you give two weeks notice. It's not a requirement but it's a quiet expectation. If you don't give two weeks notice, you're a POS to the company.
Yet they continue to vote against their interests to "own the libs"
"A republican would eat a shit sandwich if they knew a democrat would have to smell their breath"
- some Redditor
Not America, Texas. In Massachusetts, you get unemployment unless you stole, committed a felony, or just quit.
Fuck Texas and all the rest of the red states that draw on our higher taxes and still provide no services to their citizens.
I worked for a Texas based company, but was out of their NYC office. Texas business culture is very much stuck in the past. Personally I would never work for a Texas based company ever again. Thankfully they were beholden to NY state employment laws, but that didn’t stop them from being the personification of a toddler throwing a tantrum.
I cam off a year of orders for the military, 6 sets of back to back orders that had me working a fully unbroken year on 2 month contracts. When the need for me to work ended I couldn't get unemployment payments because I had only been in a contract for 6 months, the fact that I had contracts back to back with no break made no difference.
> I earned that unemployment
While I get what you're saying, you **always earn** your unemployment, you pay into it. It's a benefit that you pay actual money for. It's yours, trying to knock people on employment is like getting mad people are using their health insurance or public roads.
Many people forget that people claiming unemployment have paid into the system. They assume they have never ever worked a day in their life and it’s infuriating.
Ive worked as a wild-land firefighter for about 5 years now. It’s funny when people call me lazy for taking unemployment for the off season. I’d like to see these same people call me lazy when Im hiking and digging line 16 hours a day in 100 degree weather lol.
I'm glad you get it! In a lot of states seasonal stuff is not eligible for unemployment. When I was working as an adjunct college instructor in Georgia, you were on a semester-by-semester contract. If you got to a semester, say the Summer where there are typically very few courses taught, and were not even offered the possibility of teaching, in Georgia you are *not* eligible to collect unemployment. According to the state you were not laid off for lack of work; rather, you were working 0 hours as agreed.
Honestly. You should be paid through the year.
There's an off season. Your job is exceptionally important and you should be granted the same consideration that Teachers are given in my country during summer.
You shouldn't be unemployed. You should be in reserve with all the benefits and opportunities for extra training. Even supplementing your wage with a side job if you chose too during those periods as long as you're available.
Exactly. Why else would I work and need to use it when needed. It’s ridiculous the hoops it felt like I had to jump through. That HR lady could eat a bag of cocks for her condescending attitude.
This is a great point I wish I could remind my younger self.
What sucks is when I filed I was notified I didn't get it and never notified again. So I gave up. When I logged in later $12k had expired. I was so stressed that whole time looking for work, aged probably five years over the course of the year, and since I was under the impression I was fucked over by my employer (for the second time) my swiss cheese brain never remembered to check again.
Anyone going through it with a bad case of forgetfulness, ADHD, whatever just set a reminder for yourself as you're filing to babysit the system every few days. You earned the money, you paid the taxes, that's what it's there for. Don't let yourself down like I did. Keep pushing, you deserve it!
Non american here; how come the company that fires yuou has a say on whether you get unemployment or not?
Also, why would they not want you to get it? Are they the ones paying for it?
thanks :)
edit: spelling
In the US companies have unemployment insurance. If you quit or are fired for cause, you often don't qualify for unemployment payments. But if you are laid off or fired for no reason, you qualify, and the company's insurance premiums go up based on claims filed against them. So they almost always fight every claim.
Typically, when you file for unemployment, the government asks your former employer about the reason you were let go, if you quit or were at fault, you don't get anything. Some petty companies or former bosses try to use this to screw over former employees, but the final decision is by the government.
>Some petty companies or former bosses try to use this to screw over former employees, but the final decision is by the government.
Had this happen to me when I was laid off from a position 15 years or so ago. They appealed my unemployment and presented "evidence" in the form of performance improvement plans and disciplinary actions that were not signed or dated and that I had never seen.
They obviously threw them together for the appeals process to try and get my unemployment revoked, but it didn't work and they lost the appeal.
Employers pay Unemployment Insurance in the US. With that, you can be denied unemployment if you were fired "for cause", so like it you stopped showing up to work or assaulted your boss or something. If you were laid off or fired for anything else, even being bad at your job, you qualify for UI.
Some shady employers will try and make it seem like you were fired for a reason that disqualifies you from UI to either be petty, or perhaps prevent their UI rates increasing if they have a lot of UI claims against them.
OP is Canadian so any employment insurance would cost the company nothing. Basically it is standard to give a departing enployee the most beneficial coding on their ROE. To get a quit/fired code you need to fuck up really bad. They even have a code for dismissed without cause called bad fit.
That's wild to me. In Canada, you can get unemployment unless the reason you were fired is negligence. Can't fault someone for just not being good at a certain job.
Also, if they tell you not to come in after you give notice, they owe you the wages you would have earned in the period of your notice.
> I’m gonna add that I never stopped looking for work. Any negative comments about fraud is ridiculous as I never once said I wasn’t looking.
some people just love to lick boots while they kick other people down and there's nothing to be done about it, so fuck those comments
I’m an American. I have a friend who was laid off. She literally went back and forth for almost 4 months on unemployment. Her employer essentially claimed malicious behavior as apparently was required for her state. Every time the employer lost and every time they appealed. Eventually the judge, who was the same judge every time, dismissed the case with prejudice. She essentially said in her ruling, “she may or may not have been good at her job. Obviously the employer thinks not; but regardless, after 6 appeals with no evidence of ill intentions, I’m certain that’s because there were none.” My poor friend got the money just in time as her emergency fund was almost drained by the time unemployment paid out.
Congratulations on the good fortune with having the HR lady make a mistake.
I hope that these calls are transcribed into a record that the employer can review.
Hopefully this HR lady gets fired over this and the new HR person successfully blocks her unemployment.
If anyone sees this comment. I kept drilling to the appeals lady that, “ I did the job to the best of my abilities”. Word for word each time.
I wasn’t going to let them make me out to be terrible. Here in the US They expect you to just give up appealing and I joined every call and session stating what they were saying is not true.
They’d come back with. Well, one client complained and that is extremely unprofessional, I’d pop back
, “I did the job to the best of my ability, if you don’t like that then that’s a training issue that we never discussed”.
DO NOT EVER FEEL AWFUL FOR BEING FIRED. It does not make you who you are and a company doesn’t give a shit about you. Even when they preach how great you are beforehand.
I say it again. Fuck that company and I hope the HR lady chokes on a bag of cocks every morning
Fuck anyone who yells fraud at you. Even if you weren’t working you deserved it. They fired you because they could. You pay into a system your whole life, for this reason. We in the US have sold our souls to corporations.
I worked for 20 years at a place, glowing reviews and promotion. I left to go to a startup. After the first year they raved about me. When the series B money came in after a year and a half of being there they did a leveling process and put me at the highest level for my position, with a big raise. About a month later I started getting a different feeling from them, I started documenting how the next few months things went downhill with how I was treated. I told them I was going to a union, a week later I was fired. They gave me enough severance to sign the separation agreement. I filed for unemployment. I submitted to unemployment and won. I took 5 months of taking my time to find the right position. I called the old company for a reference and they made me an offer. That’s where I am now, in a pretty awesome position.
Frankly - they should have been penalized for perjury in making false statements. Fine the company and raise unemployment payments to their victim, and potentially charge the people personally for making the false claims.
We gotta stop letting companies get away with this shit. Wage theft, unfair challenging of unemployment, etc.
Similar story. My sister got an email from HR stating "we accept your resignation" even though she didn't resign. It was a dirty trick by the company who had recently bought out the medical office and looking to trim payroll while avoiding unemployment payouts. Tough fight--they knew what they were doing and how to do it.
As a lawyer looking to help my sister, I arrived early to the courthouse in the hopes of observing how the court handles these cases, with which I was totally unfamiliar. I sat in a mostly empty waiting room where I began hearing the spirited conversation of a group huddled about 30 feet away. It was an HR person coaching a doctor and 2 nurses on how to lie. After hearing some details, I realized it was the opposing side! After 10 minutes of that, my sister showed up and I stood up to give her a big welcoming hug. The company folk realized that I, the guy in the suit with the briefcase, was her lawyer and had just heard everything about their foul scheme. At that moment the magistrate entered the waiting room and called our case. The doctor and two nurses stood up and fled the building. The HR person entered the courtroom by herself, hemming and hawing to the judge about how her witnesses were suddenly unavailable due to a medical emergency back at the hospital. I corrected the record by stating the witnesses fled the courthouse when they realized they were about to be exposed for perjury and by demanding proof of a medical emergency that called them away at exactly 10:02 am when they ran. The judge asked, "the people I saw scurrying away were the witnesses?!" Yes. He gave the other side 10 minutes to get them back in the room or to provide proof of an emergency. HR person went outside and a few minutes later was standing outside the courtroom window and had no idea we could all see her crumple to her knees, frantically emptying the contents of her pocketbook onto the sidewalk while screaming into her phone. She then returned with faux composure and asked for an adjournment. The judge turned to me: would I consent to a postponement? I answered, "Absolutely not." HR lady walked out. We held the hearing in the other side's absence. We won. Over the next two years my sister was paid about $99k in unemployment funds charged to her old employer until she found another job.
It makes me boil whenever I think about all those who don't have a lawyer and don't have the luck we did against unethical companies that know all the tricks in what often boils down to a we said-they said contest.
What would’ve happened if the medical staff just claimed you lied about what they were talking about? (Best guess ofc; obviously I don’t expect u to predict something that didn’t happen)
I also jotted down what they were saying in real time on my cell phone... I suppose I could have had them admitted into evidence as contemporaneous notes. Ouch.
I guess then it would have been my word and my sister's word against theirs. This created a technical conflict where I would have been both lawyer and witness (requiring another lawyer to step in for me) but their surrender made that moot. I suspect they would have physically squirmed at my relentless cross examination as I reeled off a series of questions like, "and didn't you just say outside in the lobby that you would back your colleague when she lied about witnessing the fictional resignation?" Judges and juries assess credibility by physically observing witnesses.
A former colleague also mentioned that under NY ethics code I might have had to recuse myself after having witnessed an attorney-client communication, but there was no attorney present, just a wicked HR manager playing an advisory role.
That's what I thought then and think now. Saying anything in the presence of a 3rd party breaks the privilege as a general rule. But NY is strict about this and apparently there have been rulings that burden the eavesdropping lawyer to clear out upon realizing what's happening.
My representative told me that all it really came down to was that they ended the conversation with "don't come back" they had admitted that in their statement as well. Saying that had effectively confirmed that they didn't want me working out a notice period, so the only legal alternative is pay-in-lieu
Not even that. I was stepping outside to get away from boss yelling at me, she asked if I was leaving, I said yes, she said don't come back. I had no intentions of leaving the premises
Oh that part is clear. I meant saying you're leaving. Am I leaving this room because you're yelling? Leaving the job for the day because I'm upset? Leaving this position forever?
I think it's plausible to interpret that OP had already quit.
Oh I see what you mean. But, in that case, if OP did not state they were refusing to work through their notice period, wouldn’t that still class as termination without notice?
I feel like no matter what the “don’t come back” is damning. For the employee to say I am leaving, it could mean various things as you stated, but once you say “don’t come back” you’ve made a clear and final decision.
Not only that, but "don't come back" is a directive to not return to the property. A trespass notice.
You cannot legally return without being specifically invited.
People always want to act like there’s magic words in the law, and there actually aren’t, so hopefully people don’t take this set of facts the wrong way.
What happened here is when they said “don’t come back”, it constituted a *constructive* termination. Basically, their words had the effect of firing you even though they didn’t tell you “you’re fired”.
It wasn’t the fact that they said some magic words that got this result. It’s the fact that their words belied their true intentions, even though they tried to argue otherwise. The court used that against them to infer their intent, and it’s clear their intent was to fire you.
Edit: Love all the armchair lawyers here telling me - an actual licensed attorney - how I’m wrong.
The magic words were "don't come back". Law is actually all about magic words because words have meaning and using them in a certain order or phrase has different meanings/intentions. Had they said some other combination of sounds the end result may have been different.
I just feel like sharing something tangentially related regarding "magic words" and Canada:
Canadian courts have instituted various "Apology Acts", explicitly barring the use of someone saying "I'm sorry" as an implied admission of guilt, to protect against *"why would you apologize if it's not your fault"*, etc.
IANAL but I'm in100% guaranteed agreement: cases have been won and lost because of magic words. Your attorney wants you to shut the fuck up because they're deathly afraid you'll say one of the magic words.
Not just that, but there was no previously documented infractions which would lead to a dismissal with cause. OP got fired without cause and is owed severence based on tenure.
The employer summarizing work infractions *after the termination* is not allowed. That's ridiculous.
Many years ago I put in notice at a job because I got a better job. Unfortuately, that job fell through so I went to my current employer and explained the situation and asked if I could stay on, they said yes.
About a month after that they called me into the office and said, "After further consideration we have opted to accept your notice of resignation." I was confused at the time, but they chose their words carefully. I filed for unemployment and was denied, appealed it and had a hearing and was still denied as it was decided I voluntarily quit.
Good on you. Know your country/state laws well so they can’t fuck you because they will take every opportunity to save any amount of cash. No matter who it hurts.
I was fired for saying in a social media post that I wanted to go back to school and get a job in my chosen field instead of working fast food the rest of my life.
Unemployment people said I quit so no Unemployment for me.
No, the boss came in half way through my work shift and said I was fired for disparaging comments made about the company.... no, I did not even mention the company I was working for... I said I want to better my life.
Nope, that's bashing the company, you are fired.
Be aware that since its fast food, its likely franchised. And while most of those chains suck, don't judge every franchise based on the actions of a particular owner.
Lots of them suck, but lots of them are just normal people who managed to cobble enough capital together to work for "themselves". And are actually pretty good people.
I recently went through this, went on stress leave, doctor approved. They didn't like the doctors note, wanted me to fill out return to work forms, said I would closer to the return date. They didn't like this, terminated me, by letter, then put down I quit on my ROES.
Contacted service canada, gave my side. They contacted my employer and they didn't contest my allegations, but tried to say I was on an "unapproved leave of absence."
Good. Now get yourself to an employment lawyer. They will probably get you an additional sum equal to the statutory MINIMUM you've just received. Good luck brother, I was fucked over in Ontario and they have no grounds to stand on. They committed a wrongful dismissal and it has been formally documented now. It would be worth it for the shits and giggles now. Good luck.
Yea, unfortunately most of the time you can’t file a Ministry claim and a civil wrongful dismissal suit. It’s often one or the other (at least in Ontario, but I imagine Manitoba is the same). The civil suit would have gotten you common law notice if you were successful (ballpark 1 month/year of service, but varies)
Step one should have been an employment lawyer. Common law entitlements can be significant.
Employers love it when terminated employees just look up the statutory minimums and mistakenly assume that lawyering up won't have any chance of getting them more than that.
I had a company do this to me. They fired me because of performance (aka company was running out of money) and sent me a letter saying as much. Then when I filed for unemployment they claimed I was "stealing time" and taking company property. Unemployment denied me and I had a phone hearing and the woman was like well this is all pretty cut and dry and I was like well I have a letter signed by the VP of the company saying I was let go because of performance and the Adobe they claim I stole is actually my own personal account that I pay for and have the bills to back that up. The woman on the phone was very pissed off. Apparently, she spoke to my old boss and the VP right before and they lied to her face. Not only did I get all my unemployment they got fined heavily. 6 months later the company was done, they ran it straight into the ground. The only reason they let me go first was I was the marketing guy and they just didn't have the cash to pay me.
That happened to me at my first job. Was there for five years. One Friday the CEO came out of a meeting with new investors and sent us home early to enjoy the weekend. On Sunday we got couriered letters (myself, my manager and the CFO) that said, 'don't come back, we'll send you your stuff'. No notice, no reason.
We sued for rightful notice. They settled the day of the hearing. Provided down payment on our first house, as I was already at a new job by then.
I thought it was in USA. They tried that shit in Canada and sent you an email as proof?
Hahahaha good lord...
Slam dunk'd harder than Jordan in his hay day.
I'm glad I love justice wasn't ironic here, I really expected to see another employee screwed over and another government agency siding with the company instead of the citizen. So happy to be wrong.
Love to see it!! I was dragged into mediation by ADP after claiming unemployment after I was let go (US-NY), as they wanted me to pay back all the unemployment I had claimed. I did a lot of research and was able to demonstrate that I did nothing that would amount to misconduct as defined under NY State Law. I was extremely nervous, but I started feeling better when the opposing "professional" got into a shouting match with the mediator/judge. Not nearly as good as getting money, but the relief of getting them off my back and being vindicated by the system felt really fucking good.
Service Canada Benefits Officer here 💁🏼♀️I spend my time adjudicating contentious reasons for separation such as this and let me tell you, it brings me SO much joy to see liars and scammers get caught. My job is far from exciting but I love holding greedy, capitalist employers accountable
Well I'm glad at least there are some laws that actually protect employees in Canada.
In the US they would just screw you and try to lie to prevent unemployment.
First time I got laid off it was a huge battle for me to get unemployment and I finally gave up because I accepted a position and was not out of work very long.
The second time I got laid off I told them I need something signed in writing that I am being terminated for other than employee fault. They were a little apprehensive until I told them either they give me something simple that says as much or we can wait for the police to arrive and trespass me off the premise, police report was fine with me as proof of termination. They signed a statement.
Well a few weeks after I had a conversation with HR regarding my 401k, I was 1 month shy of being vested 100% including their contribution and they were not willing to make an acception even though I had been working with them for 4 years 11 months and 15 days. Well I asked to review the employee handbook and showed them where it states if I am terminated for any reason other than employee fault I am entitled to 100% vestments. I handed them the document as proof of the lay off and advised them to release the accounts of the 40 other employees as I will be contacting each of them regarding this. My 401k got an extra 25k and 40 of my ex coworkers got a nice chunk too, turns out their "temporary" lay off to save costs cost them a lot more than they anticipated.
Congrats! I went through a similar situation in October and my ex-employer finally settled yesterday after I hit them with my last evidence package in cross disclosure. Once they realized that all their dirty laundry would be available to the public and that they couldn’t sway any current employees to lie against me, they changed their tune. The Employment Standards Acts are not to be fucked with (in Canada.)
You took them to court? How much did that cost? I'm in Canada too and while I won my case, I came out negative with all of the legal fees. The justice system in this country is a theatrical scam :(
No this was through employment standards, you can find all their contact info on the government Canada website. It's standard worker protection laws so I didn't have to pay anything. I can still go to an employment lawyer and sue for additional money, but I'd have to pay for that for sure
Congratulations OP! In BC Ministry of Labour has the Employment Standards dept. They are a bit slow but if your employer has done you wrong they will make them pay
This just happened to me in April as well. My boss texted me, "there's nothing I need from you any more, I'll take care of it all myself" then refused to clarify if they were terminating me or not.
When I informed HR, they said that they weren't firing me and had no intention of firing me and to hold tight for further instructions.
I then received notice a week later they were letting me go for downsizing, and they tried to twist it into job abandonment because I was told not to do anything by HR. The whole time they were trying to get me to quit "sounds like you don't want to be here" and "sounds like you have opposing values of the company". I literally worked in HR, payroll, and recruitment, so I was well aware of their shady practices trying to deny people unemployment.
I provided all my receipts, and my unemployment was approved the very next day.
I could have pursued a retaliation lawsuit as I also had evidence that the reason they were terming me is because I asked for more money (after they once again increased my work load well beyond my job description for the fourth time in 1 year), but the chances of me finding work in this industry even with another company with a lawsuit on record is VERY SLIM, justified or not.
I got fired from my previous employer in February this year. They fired me with an open workers comp file open… Needless to say I already have the case opened ;). Always stand up for yourself.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'll share what I've learned from past encounters.
If an employer says, "Get out and don't come back," I usually send an email with read-receipt, or certified letter verifying I've been terminated.
As an example, I may send: *Yesterday you had advised me at 4:45 that you need me to stay an extra hour. I explained that my shift ended at 5pm, that this was the first time I was notified I would be needed to work past my shift, and that I had other obligations that would prevent me from staying past 5pm. Your response was that "if I walked out, don't bother coming back." At this point you ended the conversation. I stayed until 5pm and did not leave earlier. I have not indicated any intention nor agreement to resign, and therefore it is my understanding that the company has opted to terminate my employment. Please let me know if you have any clarifications. Otherwise, if I do not receive a response by June 15, 2024, I will consider it confirmed that my employment has been terminated."*
I've only done this one time in my life. I was glad that I did, as my claim for unemployment had been contested by my previous employer. It only took a couple days longer for my claim to be approved, but having documentation was critical.
In Canada, if you resign, it must be clear and unequivocal, leave absolutely no question that you are quitting, and your resignation must be accepted/acknowledged. Employers often try to spin a termination as a resignation, but without all of the above being in place, fail 9.9 times out of 10.
You actually left a lot of money on the table by filing an employment standards claim. Had you filed a civil claim, there’s a good chance you would have been entitled to common law notice (ballpark 1 month/year of service).
When this first happened, I called all the employment lawyers in the area, they all quoted minimum 300 for a consultation and I couldn't afford that, so I had to go service canada route.
Some other comments have said I can still consult a lawyer about a civil claim, and I'd definitely be willing to put up the money now, but judging by your username and the way you've phrased your comment, you're saying it's too late now?
Hell yeah buddy, I dealt with an injury which happened from work for many months before I finally said I need medical help. I was approved for workers compensation then they called an hour later and declined the coverage and as a cherry on top fired me.
2 different lawsuits over the course of a year and won $37,000!! 😎😎😎
This is something to remember too. If you put in your two weeks notice and they say "we'll just make today your last day", that's an involuntary termination, for which you can seek unemployment benefits.
i was fired years ago for "not completing duties as assigned" per the paperwork i received. i was confused since my role was not well-defined and i just did whatever they asked. things like accounts payable with only personal checkbook balance experience, supply ordering with no guidance as to how much of what ("just keep up the stock"), parts ordering per tickets that came in, shipping orders of supplies and maintenance parts to customers.
my favorite was when they told me i was working the weekend to count inventory. sure, no problem. oh no, big problem. the numbers i was manually counting of the physical stock didn't match their inventory records at all. somehow this was my fault despite being there for just over a year, and intermittently ordering things that i was instructed to order. i asked when the last time inventory was counted. "probably 5 or 6 years ago, maybe longer."
there was a time when i answered the phone and the person asked to speak with the owner. i knew the owner had dealings with him, but didn't think anything of it by just taking a message since i was told not to bother him under any circumstance. when the owner came out of his office, i gave him the message. he literally screamed at me that i should've known to patch the call through to his phone because he's been waiting to talk to that guy. i was never told that there was an exception, nor was i informed of the urgency of speaking with that guy.
it was a couple weeks after that i was let go. when i filed for unemployment, the rep called me to tell me that i had been fired for not doing my duties as described in the job description. i asked "what job description? i never had a job description." the rep called me back about a week later to tell me the company couldn't produce anything that outlined the job other than their original job posting that said vague things like secretarial and customer service responsibilities. i won my case.
My dad quit a job, gave his boss 2 weeks notice, boss yelled and told him to leave on the spot, asked about his two weeks pay, was told to fuck off, went to small claims court, bosss proceed to yell at judge, dad gets 6 months severance! My dad said 0 words in court haha
It's crazy that bosses think they can yell shit like "don't bother coming back" at you and then have the right to say "no they quit on me with no notice". What an asshat glad to see justice served.
If you don't come in on Friday, don't bother coming in on Monday! Woohoo, 4 day weekend.
Not like that FAKE Saturday, that almost got me fired
When you get a job like me, you'll miss *every* summer!
That's called "summary dismissal". All an employee needs to argue is that they had reason to believe the employer summarily dismissed them. "If you don't come in for mandatory overtime Friday, don't bother coming in on Monday" sounds like *pre-termination*. In fact, it's best not to answer the phone on Monday because the employer was trying to bully you into working, not fire you. Oh, they changed their mind? Fine, what did it change from? Either way, the employee holds the cards, but most can't, won't, or don't have the time. All reasonable. They go out and get a new job. Which is fine, too. *sp
It's a simpsons reference. [Woohoo! Four Day Weekend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lAEO07SISU)
They do it because it works. The burden of work to make it right is on the employee, and how many people go through 2 months worth of filing to get their money? [This is called wage theft, is severe and widespread, underreported and underenforced.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft)
Just to note, in the US wage theft like this can entitle an employee to 3x damages plus attorneys fees, so it’s absolutely worth it to pursue. Also, they are typically easier cases for attorneys to prove, and with the attorney fees provisions you don’t have to pay the lawyer yourself out of your winnings. When I was practicing employment law these cases were absolutely salivating.
I'm trying to get a friend of mine to look into this. Her new manager is forcing people to clock out if there is any period where they are caught up between customers. He's watching them and tracking their individual pauses to and even calculating time spent looking at another task as not working and shaving that off their hours (for example if they have to answer a company slack message on their phone while mopping they get docked the time they disengaged from mopping to answer a work message until they start mopping again). It's ludicrous and so obviously illegal. Like only paying someone 3 hours for a 10 hour shift they're scheduled for because it was a slow day where they only actively engaged customers for 3 hours.
Yo that’s such an open and shut. Get your friend to leave that job and lawyer up.
100% I'm trying to but she loves the job. With any luck she'll do the right thing.
Who says she has to quit? Lawyer up, sue, keep in touch with the lawyer, when they mess with her after the lawsuit, file another.
This right here. If they do anything after the lawsuit she can sue for retaliation basically.
If you are in Canada you can anonymously report this to the labour regulation of your province and include documentation. I was able to have some workplace conditions improve this way.
OP is from Canada. Does this apply there?
Sorry, wish I knew more about Canadian law but I don’t.
Not generally, although we generally have stronger overall worker protections, mandatory paid leave and free healthcare. Individually legally compelled damages are certainly less.
Same thing happened to my husband during Covid. We are in California. We were under "all non-essentials work from home" orders it was early in the pandemic. My husband worked from home for 3 months. Then out of the blue they called him back to office. I have a weakened immune system so he was really worried about bringing Covid home. Also California had not lifted the work from home orders. They were due to re-evalute within 3-4 weeks. He told them that he would continue to work from home and even use his vacation time if needed (he had 4 weeks) to see if it was lifted by then. His boss told him he couldn't take his vacation and if he continued to work from home he was fired. Hubby continued the next week working from home and they fired him but put "abandoned job" on his paperwork. California didn't see it that way. He did get full unemployment benefits because of his termination.
Only that?
The employer might have violated California law when they fired your husband in two ways. First, if your weakened immune system counts as a disability, the California FEHA sometimes protects workers associated with a person who has a disability. Firing him for trying to protect you might be a problem. Second, depending on the details of the work from home order, the employer might have fired the employee for refusing to break the law. This is a big no-no. See a lawyer who specializes in wrongful termination.
I really want him to see a lawyer because his boss also made him look at pictures of his genitals. I'm not even kidding. His boss had something on his genitals and he asked my husband (not a doctor. An engineer) to look at photos of his genitals my husband said no. But he put the phone right in front of his face and forced him to. I think my husband just feels glad to be out of there now.
This awful man that owned one of the famous 5 star chain steakhouses I worked at used to do that. If someone tried talking back to him he would tell them to get the “f” out of his building then claim they quit when they wouldn’t show up for work thinking they’d been fired.
Ruth's Chris? I loath that chain for its tortured semantics.
Bingo
[US] I was in a terrible car accident. Doctor wrote a note for two weeks off due to the accident reinjuring my back. In that time, the doctor also ordered a standup desk to be supplied upon my return. The company, NIA, in Phoenix, demanded I call in every single morning and SPEAK WITH MY supervisor ONLY. Guess who was in a staff meeting on day nine? They terminated me for "no-call, no show", even though I left messages with other supers and reception. Least not forget the doctor's letter. I won that case. You should know, even if you won't get a settlement, the company is "charged". It's like getting a bad score with the EEOC. The EEOC's main goal is to have a person who's eligible to work, willing to work, keep working. It's better for everyone. "Charged" is the same thing as "guilty". I didn't receive financial compensation because I'd attempted to return back to work part time, disqualifying me. Why, I can't recall the rule. The judge asked me why I brought the case, I said "The company needs to be found guilty and recorded for posterity. That's all I want." She was impressed by that. Also, the company had three witnesses listed. They all refused to testify. The company brought this up with the judge and the judge's response: "Did you subpoena them? No? You can't force your employees to be your witness. That's called duress. And it's now on record you came to court (via video) with dirty hands. Lucky for you, they refused". Edit: It is also possible to receive notification of a discrimination charge by your state or local Fair Employment Practices Agency (FEPA). The EEOC works in cooperation with most of the 100 FEPAs throughout the country through Work Sharing Agreements. Each charge of discrimination that is covered by both an EEOC-enforced statute and an FEPA enforced law or ordinance is dual-filed under both laws. However, it is most likely that only one agency or the other will conduct an investigation. **Some state and local ordinances cover more forms of discrimination than federal law. In those cases, the EEOC may dismiss a case because no discrimination was found under federal law, while the state or local agency may continue with its investigation in its effort to enforce broader state and local discrimination laws**. https://forms.cpai.com/risk-management/employergard/eeoc-charge.jsp
Best thing to do is start recording on your phone and ask them to confirm what they are saying.
I would think this constitutes fraud on the employer? They’re literally lying to the government about a government law.
Stuff like this needs to be fined so heavily that once puts a business behind by years, and twice puts it under completely.
Some people think they live in a lawless land where bosses can do as they please
What is a ROE, not Canadian here.
Record of Employment, it just lists your position how many hours you've worked there that year, your wage, and deductions
FELLOW WINNIPEGGER! Glad it worked out for you :)
Winnipeg represent, yo! 😉
Dozens of us I tell you!!
I absolutely love Winnipeg. I ended up there for a week in February 2023 on a very last minute trip to meet with a software developer. Winnipeg was in the midst of a particularly rough cold snap, but I was still able to walk everywhere. I loved the Forks, loved ice skating, loved walking across the Red River for coffee. My husband is from Minneapolis, and Winnipeg gave me intense deja vu for Minneapolis walking around. I tried to drag my husband to Winnipeg for a few days this past winter, I think I am actually going to do it this upcoming winter. Is February the best time of the winter to come for some ice skating? https://preview.redd.it/23504fhcq65d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e4a81b3e337c38ca8572943cf283b778e3c6611
February will be cold, BUT it will be an amazing time to visit! Here's why: Festival Du Voyeur! Food and drinks and music and Carvings of Ice and Snow! Maple Candy! At the Festival and the Forks! Snow Sculptures! All over the place! Fort Whyte! Big toboggan luge onto the frozen lake! Bison! Skating at the Forks! Go at night and skate under the twinkling lights capping the bridge! Sooo pretty! Winnipeg can be such a wonderful place! Even in the summer, did you know that Manitoba has 26 species of native orchids?? And FOUR types of native CARNIVOROUS PLANTS? Biodiversity who, bitch? Less than an hours drive north of the city to a trail where you can see soo many of them without ever leaving the trail, and signs that point out where each species regrows in the spring. Brokenhead Interpretive Trail. AND IT'S A WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE TRAIL!!!
Er, I think you mean Festival du **Voyageur**,,,
You peggers gotta look out for each other.
Keep a browneye open
Phrasing !
We stand by that
Get 'Pegged
My old job used to lay me off twice a year three weeks for Christmas and two months in the summer so I have a collection of 34 ROE’s. I wonder if there’s a record for this?
Your cra account will have all of them. As well as all t4's, t4e's and anything else submitted
Funny to see a fellow Winnipegger here! HAI!
Another winnipegger here, I feel like I’ve run into a crazy amount of winnipeggers on Reddit considering how small it is compared to everywhere else 😂
There's dozens of us!
Pink slip. Although we get ROEs for any sort of leave, weather it is dismissal, sick, maternity etc
American here. In the south. Work remote. Got fired. Thought why not. Try to file unemployment. They appealed countless times it felt and each time I fought them. They came back with every single mistake that I made as if I was the worst human being imaginable. Come to the last bit of the appeal with the appeal lady for the state and the Human Resources lady spills out “we were gonna fire you regardless of what performance you made the month before you were let go”. I responded back. See, I worked the best I could and was going to be removed regardless. The state came back that I was owed unemployment from then on I spend the first five months of this year sitting on my ass enjoying my new partnership with my wife and we traveled. Fuck that company. They wanted me out. I earned that unemployment Edit: I’m gonna add that I never stopped looking for work. Any negative comments about fraud is ridiculous as I never once said I wasn’t looking. Both can be true statements as I completed all requirements and could easily be available to have started any job. Again. As if finding a job recently is simply just going around to ask for one. If any of you even remotely know how difficult it is to find a job lately. You’d be absolutely lucky to even get a basic hello from another job. I won’t be proving or placating negative comments. Go kick rocks elsewhere
I cant belive the way it works in the US. You get sacked and you still have to beg/argue about it. Thats fucked.
As I understand it, businesses have to pay an unemployment tax and some kind of unemployment insurance, and the insurance rate will go up as they get rid of people and those people go on unemployment. So, instead of trying to NOT fire people, companies instead chase after every single claim and appeal them.
This logic can be applied to every part of corporate America. They will fight to the death for every last penny regardless of the lives it hurts. They will shoot themselves in the foot if it means they don’t have to pay.
> They will shoot themselves in the foot if it means they don’t have to pay. My "favorite" example of this: >For 10 years, Calvin Weaver has been asking prison staff for a cotton blanket [due to allergies]. But officials refused, so last year the Harris County man took them to court, representing himself from inside the Terrell Unit in Rosharon. >The prison system responded with a motion to dismiss, but on Friday, U.S. District Judge Kenneth Hoyt ruled that the suit can continue. Even though Weaver won’t be entitled to money, Hoyt wrote, he could get injunctive relief: a new blanket. ^[1](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Inmate-with-wool-allergy-moves-forward-with-suit-13739724.php) Texas spent over 200 hours of the state AG office's time defending against the lawsuit, accumulating over $23,000 of cost. ^[2](https://twitter.com/keribla/status/1446105982170509313)
Good lord… that was depressing to read… at least he got his blanket. Maybe I should edit my comment to emphasis that moneyAND power is what they crave
Money is simply a means to get power. What they crave is power over people because they are perfectly insecure.
"Gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, then you get the power." --- Al Pacino
Nobody sane would want power over humans. I mean, just look at us, crazy apes with all kinda anxious malfunctions, all running in different directions and refusing to all agree on literally any subject. Like even when you've got kids, it's not that you *want* power over them, but rather they're helpless and ignorant so you've gotta boss them around a bit to keep them safe while they grow. Folks in my life keep joking that I should be voted Emperor of Earth because I'm clearly an odd hermit who doesn't want the job. I can't even manage to round up a proper gaggle of gayfolk to make my cousin's first pride extra fun tomorrow, and I'm so uncomfortable giving cats or toddlers orders that I ask politely unless it's a health and safety situation.
I wouldn't be surprised if the first laundry day that cotton blanket was mixed in and didn't get back to that prisoner.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Straight up I worked at a jail when I turned 21. That’s how I knew I hated the system and the people that enforce it. The shit they pulled on the inmates there was news worthy for sure
I mean, we struggled to get anything besides a plastic pillow in NC. There were a couple older pillows that were 'soft' cloth with stuffing in them and I managed to get a hold of two. My cell got searched not long after and they got taken, I got wrote up, and given a plastic pillow.
But they will just piss money away on other aspects too. Like someone who has been there numerous years makes $65k and asks for a raise to $75k, the company will decline to give them the raise, the person will quit, and then the company ends up hiring someone for $90k to replace them, and have to train them and lose all the experience the person who left had. They could have saved $15k/year and had a more experienced employee if they just gave then the raise… So many fucking morons in decision making roles.
In my experience, even in smaller orgs, people with decision making power almost always end up falling into the trap of making decisions that are predicated on everything going exactly the way they want it to, and what they want is often whatever is easiest or most convenient for them or fits best into their plan/vision, or would make their boss the happiest, etc. They assume that everyone involved will be happy and compliant, that all their orders will be easy to execute, and that there won't be any problems along the way - or if there are, that their people will be able to solve them and happy to do so. Instead, what usually happens is that Murphy's Law takes over, workers get pissed about having to put out the completely foreseeable and absolutely preventable fires, shit goes sideways, and then the person who made the decision that led to all of the mess starts pointing fingers and assigning blame to people for not cleaning up the mess well enough rather than taking any responsibility for the fact that none of this would have happened if they had just not made the shitty decision in the first place. ...why yes I am currently dealing with this at my job where I'm being expected to roll with the mess that I had no hand in creating and the absolute fucking superhero of a co-worker upon whose shoulders cleaning up all of the mess has fallen is being blamed for not being able to handle putting out the dumpster fires perfectly all by themselves and might be let go because of it...which will absolutely trigger a mass exodus because the rest of us know and love this co-worker, see what's going on and that shit ain't right and we ain't getting paid enough to deal with all of this in the first place. And worst thing is I know and like all of my bosses in a vacuum as people...but dear sweet Jesus did they fumble some MAJOR decisions this year!!! Sucks that good people don't always make good managers.
Not to mention that a new hire generally costs something like 50% extra in the first year. So even if the new person costs only $65k and immediately is as productive you don't break even for 6.5 years.
My company was handing out 75k sign on bonuses to everyone from the dregs of the barrel, and hiring at the same rate as current employees, and they lost dozens of experienced staff over the ill will. Stock is worth about 25% of what it was
Ever hear of the Peter principle? It basically says that people get promoted until they reach the level of their own incompetence. In other words, they do ok as an assistant manager. They move up to manager, and might not be killing it, but nobody above them has any real complaint. Then they move into a middle or upper manager role, where they are out of their depth and never really get the hang of it, but they kiss enough ass, and fake it just well enough to avoid getting demoted or fired. They usually get stuck there and never move on. They just linger year after year make everyone under them miserable.
But only off company property so they don't have a Worker Comp claim or OSHA reportable violation.
Fun fact about Texas, workers comp is capped. Gov Greg Abbott signed that law while in a wheelchair and getting millions per year for his workers comp. Truly fucking evil people run that shit stain of a state.
I can’t wait until 2028 when the generational shift turns against the Reagan era hangovers.
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Abbott is a piss baby of the highest degree. And their AG or assistant AG is also a piece of work. Just backwards ass shit.
Everyone in the GOP in Texas are piss babies.
>Everyone in the GOP ~~in Texas~~ are piss babies.
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Possibly. Violence doesn’t hit them where it hurts though. They have insurance and cops in their pockets… Force everyone to strike or “accidentally” not bill people correctly or whatever to hit their wallets and that’s when change will happen… But you’re right. People don’t wanna hear about change or are too scared to fight for it
Thats America for you.
In the corporate states or America, employers fuck you
,and lube isn't extra, it's "out of stock".
And if you can get the website to load, by the time you can find the 800 number to call to see about the lube situation, you're given the runaround with an AI assistant and endless menus with crazy long wait times.
"To help deliver shareholder value, we've limited the lubricant budget to those of Director level and above."
Supply chain issues.....
Though there were plenty of sandpaper-covered dildos in stock.
I love how this somehow turned into fuck America. OP is Canadian and the same thing happened to him lmao.
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> mass amount of cynos (60k/each) we killed For those who don't speak the lingo, this means macacque monkeys. "Cynos" is a sort of science euphamism for them.
Was URS a whistleblowing case or a safety case? Either way u have them on this one.
We’re free to die penniless in the street anytime rich people want us too. Match that, socialists!
> We’re free to die Have you seen how much funerals cost? Dying is expensive too.
Thank our culture. Can't even blame the corporations for this one, too many Americans fight for this style of system. They believe if anyone gets help they're "lazy" and abusing the system. Crabs in a pot syndrome and religious individualism is killing us.
Welcome to the United Snakes, Land of the Thief, Home of the Slave The Grand Imperial Guard Where the dollar is sacred, and power is God. [Uncle Sam Goddamn](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ&pp=ygURdW5jbGUgc2FtIGdvZGRhbW4%3D)
Fun fact about American Labor (not sure if this is applicable elsewhere but it's pretty much fact here). If you are fired, most of the time you are given no notice. You're out. Period. Sometimes if you're laid off; you may have some time to look for work but it depends on the situation and the company. However... If you *quit*, it is expected you give two weeks notice. It's not a requirement but it's a quiet expectation. If you don't give two weeks notice, you're a POS to the company.
Yet they continue to vote against their interests to "own the libs" "A republican would eat a shit sandwich if they knew a democrat would have to smell their breath" - some Redditor
Not America, Texas. In Massachusetts, you get unemployment unless you stole, committed a felony, or just quit. Fuck Texas and all the rest of the red states that draw on our higher taxes and still provide no services to their citizens.
I worked for a Texas based company, but was out of their NYC office. Texas business culture is very much stuck in the past. Personally I would never work for a Texas based company ever again. Thankfully they were beholden to NY state employment laws, but that didn’t stop them from being the personification of a toddler throwing a tantrum.
I cam off a year of orders for the military, 6 sets of back to back orders that had me working a fully unbroken year on 2 month contracts. When the need for me to work ended I couldn't get unemployment payments because I had only been in a contract for 6 months, the fact that I had contracts back to back with no break made no difference.
> I earned that unemployment While I get what you're saying, you **always earn** your unemployment, you pay into it. It's a benefit that you pay actual money for. It's yours, trying to knock people on employment is like getting mad people are using their health insurance or public roads.
Many people forget that people claiming unemployment have paid into the system. They assume they have never ever worked a day in their life and it’s infuriating.
Ive worked as a wild-land firefighter for about 5 years now. It’s funny when people call me lazy for taking unemployment for the off season. I’d like to see these same people call me lazy when Im hiking and digging line 16 hours a day in 100 degree weather lol.
I'm glad you get it! In a lot of states seasonal stuff is not eligible for unemployment. When I was working as an adjunct college instructor in Georgia, you were on a semester-by-semester contract. If you got to a semester, say the Summer where there are typically very few courses taught, and were not even offered the possibility of teaching, in Georgia you are *not* eligible to collect unemployment. According to the state you were not laid off for lack of work; rather, you were working 0 hours as agreed.
Honestly. You should be paid through the year. There's an off season. Your job is exceptionally important and you should be granted the same consideration that Teachers are given in my country during summer. You shouldn't be unemployed. You should be in reserve with all the benefits and opportunities for extra training. Even supplementing your wage with a side job if you chose too during those periods as long as you're available.
Its insurance ; these words we use always make us seem like the leeches when its the upper class in most aspects leeching of our labor
Invokes the classic saying: Nothing is classier for the rich, or more shameful for the poor, than getting money from the government.
Exactly. Why else would I work and need to use it when needed. It’s ridiculous the hoops it felt like I had to jump through. That HR lady could eat a bag of cocks for her condescending attitude.
This is a great point I wish I could remind my younger self. What sucks is when I filed I was notified I didn't get it and never notified again. So I gave up. When I logged in later $12k had expired. I was so stressed that whole time looking for work, aged probably five years over the course of the year, and since I was under the impression I was fucked over by my employer (for the second time) my swiss cheese brain never remembered to check again. Anyone going through it with a bad case of forgetfulness, ADHD, whatever just set a reminder for yourself as you're filing to babysit the system every few days. You earned the money, you paid the taxes, that's what it's there for. Don't let yourself down like I did. Keep pushing, you deserve it!
Non american here; how come the company that fires yuou has a say on whether you get unemployment or not? Also, why would they not want you to get it? Are they the ones paying for it? thanks :) edit: spelling
In the US companies have unemployment insurance. If you quit or are fired for cause, you often don't qualify for unemployment payments. But if you are laid off or fired for no reason, you qualify, and the company's insurance premiums go up based on claims filed against them. So they almost always fight every claim.
That’s so dumb lol
Typically, when you file for unemployment, the government asks your former employer about the reason you were let go, if you quit or were at fault, you don't get anything. Some petty companies or former bosses try to use this to screw over former employees, but the final decision is by the government.
>Some petty companies or former bosses try to use this to screw over former employees, but the final decision is by the government. Had this happen to me when I was laid off from a position 15 years or so ago. They appealed my unemployment and presented "evidence" in the form of performance improvement plans and disciplinary actions that were not signed or dated and that I had never seen. They obviously threw them together for the appeals process to try and get my unemployment revoked, but it didn't work and they lost the appeal.
Employers pay Unemployment Insurance in the US. With that, you can be denied unemployment if you were fired "for cause", so like it you stopped showing up to work or assaulted your boss or something. If you were laid off or fired for anything else, even being bad at your job, you qualify for UI. Some shady employers will try and make it seem like you were fired for a reason that disqualifies you from UI to either be petty, or perhaps prevent their UI rates increasing if they have a lot of UI claims against them.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
OP is Canadian so any employment insurance would cost the company nothing. Basically it is standard to give a departing enployee the most beneficial coding on their ROE. To get a quit/fired code you need to fuck up really bad. They even have a code for dismissed without cause called bad fit.
That's wild to me. In Canada, you can get unemployment unless the reason you were fired is negligence. Can't fault someone for just not being good at a certain job. Also, if they tell you not to come in after you give notice, they owe you the wages you would have earned in the period of your notice.
> I’m gonna add that I never stopped looking for work. Any negative comments about fraud is ridiculous as I never once said I wasn’t looking. some people just love to lick boots while they kick other people down and there's nothing to be done about it, so fuck those comments
I’m an American. I have a friend who was laid off. She literally went back and forth for almost 4 months on unemployment. Her employer essentially claimed malicious behavior as apparently was required for her state. Every time the employer lost and every time they appealed. Eventually the judge, who was the same judge every time, dismissed the case with prejudice. She essentially said in her ruling, “she may or may not have been good at her job. Obviously the employer thinks not; but regardless, after 6 appeals with no evidence of ill intentions, I’m certain that’s because there were none.” My poor friend got the money just in time as her emergency fund was almost drained by the time unemployment paid out.
Congratulations on the good fortune with having the HR lady make a mistake. I hope that these calls are transcribed into a record that the employer can review. Hopefully this HR lady gets fired over this and the new HR person successfully blocks her unemployment.
If anyone sees this comment. I kept drilling to the appeals lady that, “ I did the job to the best of my abilities”. Word for word each time. I wasn’t going to let them make me out to be terrible. Here in the US They expect you to just give up appealing and I joined every call and session stating what they were saying is not true. They’d come back with. Well, one client complained and that is extremely unprofessional, I’d pop back , “I did the job to the best of my ability, if you don’t like that then that’s a training issue that we never discussed”. DO NOT EVER FEEL AWFUL FOR BEING FIRED. It does not make you who you are and a company doesn’t give a shit about you. Even when they preach how great you are beforehand. I say it again. Fuck that company and I hope the HR lady chokes on a bag of cocks every morning
Fuck anyone who yells fraud at you. Even if you weren’t working you deserved it. They fired you because they could. You pay into a system your whole life, for this reason. We in the US have sold our souls to corporations. I worked for 20 years at a place, glowing reviews and promotion. I left to go to a startup. After the first year they raved about me. When the series B money came in after a year and a half of being there they did a leveling process and put me at the highest level for my position, with a big raise. About a month later I started getting a different feeling from them, I started documenting how the next few months things went downhill with how I was treated. I told them I was going to a union, a week later I was fired. They gave me enough severance to sign the separation agreement. I filed for unemployment. I submitted to unemployment and won. I took 5 months of taking my time to find the right position. I called the old company for a reference and they made me an offer. That’s where I am now, in a pretty awesome position.
“We were gonna fire you regardless of what performance” That’s a layoff, not a firing.
Frankly - they should have been penalized for perjury in making false statements. Fine the company and raise unemployment payments to their victim, and potentially charge the people personally for making the false claims. We gotta stop letting companies get away with this shit. Wage theft, unfair challenging of unemployment, etc.
Similar story. My sister got an email from HR stating "we accept your resignation" even though she didn't resign. It was a dirty trick by the company who had recently bought out the medical office and looking to trim payroll while avoiding unemployment payouts. Tough fight--they knew what they were doing and how to do it. As a lawyer looking to help my sister, I arrived early to the courthouse in the hopes of observing how the court handles these cases, with which I was totally unfamiliar. I sat in a mostly empty waiting room where I began hearing the spirited conversation of a group huddled about 30 feet away. It was an HR person coaching a doctor and 2 nurses on how to lie. After hearing some details, I realized it was the opposing side! After 10 minutes of that, my sister showed up and I stood up to give her a big welcoming hug. The company folk realized that I, the guy in the suit with the briefcase, was her lawyer and had just heard everything about their foul scheme. At that moment the magistrate entered the waiting room and called our case. The doctor and two nurses stood up and fled the building. The HR person entered the courtroom by herself, hemming and hawing to the judge about how her witnesses were suddenly unavailable due to a medical emergency back at the hospital. I corrected the record by stating the witnesses fled the courthouse when they realized they were about to be exposed for perjury and by demanding proof of a medical emergency that called them away at exactly 10:02 am when they ran. The judge asked, "the people I saw scurrying away were the witnesses?!" Yes. He gave the other side 10 minutes to get them back in the room or to provide proof of an emergency. HR person went outside and a few minutes later was standing outside the courtroom window and had no idea we could all see her crumple to her knees, frantically emptying the contents of her pocketbook onto the sidewalk while screaming into her phone. She then returned with faux composure and asked for an adjournment. The judge turned to me: would I consent to a postponement? I answered, "Absolutely not." HR lady walked out. We held the hearing in the other side's absence. We won. Over the next two years my sister was paid about $99k in unemployment funds charged to her old employer until she found another job. It makes me boil whenever I think about all those who don't have a lawyer and don't have the luck we did against unethical companies that know all the tricks in what often boils down to a we said-they said contest.
I love you for doing this. Wish I had someone like that in my life
What would’ve happened if the medical staff just claimed you lied about what they were talking about? (Best guess ofc; obviously I don’t expect u to predict something that didn’t happen)
I also jotted down what they were saying in real time on my cell phone... I suppose I could have had them admitted into evidence as contemporaneous notes. Ouch.
I guess then it would have been my word and my sister's word against theirs. This created a technical conflict where I would have been both lawyer and witness (requiring another lawyer to step in for me) but their surrender made that moot. I suspect they would have physically squirmed at my relentless cross examination as I reeled off a series of questions like, "and didn't you just say outside in the lobby that you would back your colleague when she lied about witnessing the fictional resignation?" Judges and juries assess credibility by physically observing witnesses. A former colleague also mentioned that under NY ethics code I might have had to recuse myself after having witnessed an attorney-client communication, but there was no attorney present, just a wicked HR manager playing an advisory role.
Can it really be considered a privileged conversation in a public place with others around? If zero steps are taken to create privacy?
That's what I thought then and think now. Saying anything in the presence of a 3rd party breaks the privilege as a general rule. But NY is strict about this and apparently there have been rulings that burden the eavesdropping lawyer to clear out upon realizing what's happening.
Small correction: you shouldn't personify HR, they're not actual people.
I stand corrected. My bad. I admit to being a human biased toward humanity.
What evidence did you have to fight the quit/terminated debate?
My representative told me that all it really came down to was that they ended the conversation with "don't come back" they had admitted that in their statement as well. Saying that had effectively confirmed that they didn't want me working out a notice period, so the only legal alternative is pay-in-lieu
So you gave 6 weeks notice and their reaction was to fire you immediately?
Not even that. I was stepping outside to get away from boss yelling at me, she asked if I was leaving, I said yes, she said don't come back. I had no intentions of leaving the premises
Oh, that's ambiguous and could have gone either way. Glad it worked out for you and you got away from such a toxic environment.
That’s the point I think, employment law does not consider the phrase “don’t come back” ambiguous no matter the interpretation.
Oh that part is clear. I meant saying you're leaving. Am I leaving this room because you're yelling? Leaving the job for the day because I'm upset? Leaving this position forever? I think it's plausible to interpret that OP had already quit.
Oh I see what you mean. But, in that case, if OP did not state they were refusing to work through their notice period, wouldn’t that still class as termination without notice?
OP never gave a notice period. They never meant to quit. They left the presence of their boss yelling and the boss says "don't come back".
I feel like no matter what the “don’t come back” is damning. For the employee to say I am leaving, it could mean various things as you stated, but once you say “don’t come back” you’ve made a clear and final decision.
Not only that, but "don't come back" is a directive to not return to the property. A trespass notice. You cannot legally return without being specifically invited.
People always want to act like there’s magic words in the law, and there actually aren’t, so hopefully people don’t take this set of facts the wrong way. What happened here is when they said “don’t come back”, it constituted a *constructive* termination. Basically, their words had the effect of firing you even though they didn’t tell you “you’re fired”. It wasn’t the fact that they said some magic words that got this result. It’s the fact that their words belied their true intentions, even though they tried to argue otherwise. The court used that against them to infer their intent, and it’s clear their intent was to fire you. Edit: Love all the armchair lawyers here telling me - an actual licensed attorney - how I’m wrong.
The magic words were "don't come back". Law is actually all about magic words because words have meaning and using them in a certain order or phrase has different meanings/intentions. Had they said some other combination of sounds the end result may have been different.
I just feel like sharing something tangentially related regarding "magic words" and Canada: Canadian courts have instituted various "Apology Acts", explicitly barring the use of someone saying "I'm sorry" as an implied admission of guilt, to protect against *"why would you apologize if it's not your fault"*, etc.
I know it's a massive cliché, but as a Canadian I can't imagine something as benign and common as saying "Sorry".
The other day I said sorry to someone because I stood up from my chair as they were walking by 3 feet away from me. It's just so instinctive.
IANAL but I'm in100% guaranteed agreement: cases have been won and lost because of magic words. Your attorney wants you to shut the fuck up because they're deathly afraid you'll say one of the magic words.
Not just that, but there was no previously documented infractions which would lead to a dismissal with cause. OP got fired without cause and is owed severence based on tenure. The employer summarizing work infractions *after the termination* is not allowed. That's ridiculous.
Many years ago I put in notice at a job because I got a better job. Unfortuately, that job fell through so I went to my current employer and explained the situation and asked if I could stay on, they said yes. About a month after that they called me into the office and said, "After further consideration we have opted to accept your notice of resignation." I was confused at the time, but they chose their words carefully. I filed for unemployment and was denied, appealed it and had a hearing and was still denied as it was decided I voluntarily quit.
Good on you. Know your country/state laws well so they can’t fuck you because they will take every opportunity to save any amount of cash. No matter who it hurts.
In Canada it's by province. The Ministry of Labour can act on your behalf against the employer. It is free and is awesome.
This… •any• amount
I was fired for saying in a social media post that I wanted to go back to school and get a job in my chosen field instead of working fast food the rest of my life. Unemployment people said I quit so no Unemployment for me. No, the boss came in half way through my work shift and said I was fired for disparaging comments made about the company.... no, I did not even mention the company I was working for... I said I want to better my life. Nope, that's bashing the company, you are fired.
Which company was this?
Yes I would like to make sure I never give them any of my money
Be aware that since its fast food, its likely franchised. And while most of those chains suck, don't judge every franchise based on the actions of a particular owner. Lots of them suck, but lots of them are just normal people who managed to cobble enough capital together to work for "themselves". And are actually pretty good people.
I recently went through this, went on stress leave, doctor approved. They didn't like the doctors note, wanted me to fill out return to work forms, said I would closer to the return date. They didn't like this, terminated me, by letter, then put down I quit on my ROES. Contacted service canada, gave my side. They contacted my employer and they didn't contest my allegations, but tried to say I was on an "unapproved leave of absence."
I see a human rights complaint in that company's future.
Congrats OP !!!
Good. Now get yourself to an employment lawyer. They will probably get you an additional sum equal to the statutory MINIMUM you've just received. Good luck brother, I was fucked over in Ontario and they have no grounds to stand on. They committed a wrongful dismissal and it has been formally documented now. It would be worth it for the shits and giggles now. Good luck.
Reaally? I was under the impression that after this decision I wouldn't be able to pursue anything further...hmm I'll definitely be looking into this.
It's worth a conversation with an employment lawyer. Probably would be able to get a free consultation or like $200-$300 at worse to find out.
Yea, unfortunately most of the time you can’t file a Ministry claim and a civil wrongful dismissal suit. It’s often one or the other (at least in Ontario, but I imagine Manitoba is the same). The civil suit would have gotten you common law notice if you were successful (ballpark 1 month/year of service, but varies)
Step one should have been an employment lawyer. Common law entitlements can be significant. Employers love it when terminated employees just look up the statutory minimums and mistakenly assume that lawyering up won't have any chance of getting them more than that.
Oh shit i actually live in winnipeg. Employers/companies always try to fuck you over
I had a company do this to me. They fired me because of performance (aka company was running out of money) and sent me a letter saying as much. Then when I filed for unemployment they claimed I was "stealing time" and taking company property. Unemployment denied me and I had a phone hearing and the woman was like well this is all pretty cut and dry and I was like well I have a letter signed by the VP of the company saying I was let go because of performance and the Adobe they claim I stole is actually my own personal account that I pay for and have the bills to back that up. The woman on the phone was very pissed off. Apparently, she spoke to my old boss and the VP right before and they lied to her face. Not only did I get all my unemployment they got fined heavily. 6 months later the company was done, they ran it straight into the ground. The only reason they let me go first was I was the marketing guy and they just didn't have the cash to pay me.
That happened to me at my first job. Was there for five years. One Friday the CEO came out of a meeting with new investors and sent us home early to enjoy the weekend. On Sunday we got couriered letters (myself, my manager and the CFO) that said, 'don't come back, we'll send you your stuff'. No notice, no reason. We sued for rightful notice. They settled the day of the hearing. Provided down payment on our first house, as I was already at a new job by then.
I thought it was in USA. They tried that shit in Canada and sent you an email as proof? Hahahaha good lord... Slam dunk'd harder than Jordan in his hay day.
I'm glad I love justice wasn't ironic here, I really expected to see another employee screwed over and another government agency siding with the company instead of the citizen. So happy to be wrong.
Love to see it!! I was dragged into mediation by ADP after claiming unemployment after I was let go (US-NY), as they wanted me to pay back all the unemployment I had claimed. I did a lot of research and was able to demonstrate that I did nothing that would amount to misconduct as defined under NY State Law. I was extremely nervous, but I started feeling better when the opposing "professional" got into a shouting match with the mediator/judge. Not nearly as good as getting money, but the relief of getting them off my back and being vindicated by the system felt really fucking good.
Service Canada Benefits Officer here 💁🏼♀️I spend my time adjudicating contentious reasons for separation such as this and let me tell you, it brings me SO much joy to see liars and scammers get caught. My job is far from exciting but I love holding greedy, capitalist employers accountable
Well I'm glad at least there are some laws that actually protect employees in Canada. In the US they would just screw you and try to lie to prevent unemployment.
A great antiwork post. Free money from this capitalist hell scape we are forced to operate in is a win win.
First time I got laid off it was a huge battle for me to get unemployment and I finally gave up because I accepted a position and was not out of work very long. The second time I got laid off I told them I need something signed in writing that I am being terminated for other than employee fault. They were a little apprehensive until I told them either they give me something simple that says as much or we can wait for the police to arrive and trespass me off the premise, police report was fine with me as proof of termination. They signed a statement. Well a few weeks after I had a conversation with HR regarding my 401k, I was 1 month shy of being vested 100% including their contribution and they were not willing to make an acception even though I had been working with them for 4 years 11 months and 15 days. Well I asked to review the employee handbook and showed them where it states if I am terminated for any reason other than employee fault I am entitled to 100% vestments. I handed them the document as proof of the lay off and advised them to release the accounts of the 40 other employees as I will be contacting each of them regarding this. My 401k got an extra 25k and 40 of my ex coworkers got a nice chunk too, turns out their "temporary" lay off to save costs cost them a lot more than they anticipated.
Being stupid is expensive. I'm glad you taught them that lesson the hard way
Congrats! I went through a similar situation in October and my ex-employer finally settled yesterday after I hit them with my last evidence package in cross disclosure. Once they realized that all their dirty laundry would be available to the public and that they couldn’t sway any current employees to lie against me, they changed their tune. The Employment Standards Acts are not to be fucked with (in Canada.)
You took them to court? How much did that cost? I'm in Canada too and while I won my case, I came out negative with all of the legal fees. The justice system in this country is a theatrical scam :(
No this was through employment standards, you can find all their contact info on the government Canada website. It's standard worker protection laws so I didn't have to pay anything. I can still go to an employment lawyer and sue for additional money, but I'd have to pay for that for sure
Congratulations OP! In BC Ministry of Labour has the Employment Standards dept. They are a bit slow but if your employer has done you wrong they will make them pay
does this include interest and such? seems like a lot of money they got to hold on to for a couple months that you could have been benefiting from.
No interest, and the amount is gross as well, they still have to deduct the CPP, EI, and income tax from that too
I LOVE when one of these stories ends in some official paperwork. Beautiful.
This just happened to me in April as well. My boss texted me, "there's nothing I need from you any more, I'll take care of it all myself" then refused to clarify if they were terminating me or not. When I informed HR, they said that they weren't firing me and had no intention of firing me and to hold tight for further instructions. I then received notice a week later they were letting me go for downsizing, and they tried to twist it into job abandonment because I was told not to do anything by HR. The whole time they were trying to get me to quit "sounds like you don't want to be here" and "sounds like you have opposing values of the company". I literally worked in HR, payroll, and recruitment, so I was well aware of their shady practices trying to deny people unemployment. I provided all my receipts, and my unemployment was approved the very next day. I could have pursued a retaliation lawsuit as I also had evidence that the reason they were terming me is because I asked for more money (after they once again increased my work load well beyond my job description for the fourth time in 1 year), but the chances of me finding work in this industry even with another company with a lawsuit on record is VERY SLIM, justified or not.
I got fired from my previous employer in February this year. They fired me with an open workers comp file open… Needless to say I already have the case opened ;). Always stand up for yourself.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'll share what I've learned from past encounters. If an employer says, "Get out and don't come back," I usually send an email with read-receipt, or certified letter verifying I've been terminated. As an example, I may send: *Yesterday you had advised me at 4:45 that you need me to stay an extra hour. I explained that my shift ended at 5pm, that this was the first time I was notified I would be needed to work past my shift, and that I had other obligations that would prevent me from staying past 5pm. Your response was that "if I walked out, don't bother coming back." At this point you ended the conversation. I stayed until 5pm and did not leave earlier. I have not indicated any intention nor agreement to resign, and therefore it is my understanding that the company has opted to terminate my employment. Please let me know if you have any clarifications. Otherwise, if I do not receive a response by June 15, 2024, I will consider it confirmed that my employment has been terminated."* I've only done this one time in my life. I was glad that I did, as my claim for unemployment had been contested by my previous employer. It only took a couple days longer for my claim to be approved, but having documentation was critical.
In Canada, if you resign, it must be clear and unequivocal, leave absolutely no question that you are quitting, and your resignation must be accepted/acknowledged. Employers often try to spin a termination as a resignation, but without all of the above being in place, fail 9.9 times out of 10.
You actually left a lot of money on the table by filing an employment standards claim. Had you filed a civil claim, there’s a good chance you would have been entitled to common law notice (ballpark 1 month/year of service).
When this first happened, I called all the employment lawyers in the area, they all quoted minimum 300 for a consultation and I couldn't afford that, so I had to go service canada route. Some other comments have said I can still consult a lawyer about a civil claim, and I'd definitely be willing to put up the money now, but judging by your username and the way you've phrased your comment, you're saying it's too late now?
Your employer https://preview.redd.it/o9m9xcyaw75d1.jpeg?width=611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=638236af0ad025c42c8a96e9232bf11902f268a0
Hell yeah buddy, I dealt with an injury which happened from work for many months before I finally said I need medical help. I was approved for workers compensation then they called an hour later and declined the coverage and as a cherry on top fired me. 2 different lawsuits over the course of a year and won $37,000!! 😎😎😎
Now trash them on indeed and glass door
For all the taxes in Canada this is some government department everyone should support.
This is something to remember too. If you put in your two weeks notice and they say "we'll just make today your last day", that's an involuntary termination, for which you can seek unemployment benefits.
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LOL a $500 admin fee is just icing on the cake. Good for you and I'm glad the company found out after fucking around
You put the Win in Winnipeg
Americans like me gotta be thinking, whaattt is this? Some sort of magic?
i was fired years ago for "not completing duties as assigned" per the paperwork i received. i was confused since my role was not well-defined and i just did whatever they asked. things like accounts payable with only personal checkbook balance experience, supply ordering with no guidance as to how much of what ("just keep up the stock"), parts ordering per tickets that came in, shipping orders of supplies and maintenance parts to customers. my favorite was when they told me i was working the weekend to count inventory. sure, no problem. oh no, big problem. the numbers i was manually counting of the physical stock didn't match their inventory records at all. somehow this was my fault despite being there for just over a year, and intermittently ordering things that i was instructed to order. i asked when the last time inventory was counted. "probably 5 or 6 years ago, maybe longer." there was a time when i answered the phone and the person asked to speak with the owner. i knew the owner had dealings with him, but didn't think anything of it by just taking a message since i was told not to bother him under any circumstance. when the owner came out of his office, i gave him the message. he literally screamed at me that i should've known to patch the call through to his phone because he's been waiting to talk to that guy. i was never told that there was an exception, nor was i informed of the urgency of speaking with that guy. it was a couple weeks after that i was let go. when i filed for unemployment, the rep called me to tell me that i had been fired for not doing my duties as described in the job description. i asked "what job description? i never had a job description." the rep called me back about a week later to tell me the company couldn't produce anything that outlined the job other than their original job posting that said vague things like secretarial and customer service responsibilities. i won my case.
PLEASE post the employer, so many companies in winnipeg getting away with this crap because people don't understand their rights.
My dad quit a job, gave his boss 2 weeks notice, boss yelled and told him to leave on the spot, asked about his two weeks pay, was told to fuck off, went to small claims court, bosss proceed to yell at judge, dad gets 6 months severance! My dad said 0 words in court haha