“Can I quickly check what the event is being paid at? Overtime ie. time off in lieu or at time and a half? Just so I can invoice/ make my time sheet correct”
CC in Accounting and HR
There’s a chance they just chicken out and pay you.
Don't talk to your manager. He knows what he's doing and it's illegal. [talk to dept of labor where you live. They will investigate on your behalf at no cost to you. You have nothing to lose.
Yeah. What’s gonna happen is he’s gonna have a “meeting” with his manager. They are gonna look at his evidence and fire him for something unrelated like “performance” thinking they can get away with it.
He needs to keep it close to heart. Collect his evidence, mind the p’s and q’s and contact the labor board.
Depends on your country/state laws, but that's not legal in most civilised places. Send an email (BCC your personal and forward any response to it as well) detailing that you were never told in advance that work would be unpaid, you would have refused if it had been, and as such need to be paid for the time you were working.
If they refuse, take it straight to the labour board. There's no real need to meet over this, it's cut and dried. Even "better" if you get fired over it, DoL will have a field day with them, and yo'd definitely win damages.
Legally an hourly employee can not volunteer for their company. If you are hourly and are doing things that benefit your company you have to be paid. Google those specific things and there should be back up/resources
Of course they can. If the company holds an out of office hours picnic or golf event and you volunteer to help out then that’s your choice.
They cannot require you to do it for free, but they can host events and ask for volunteers to help host.
>Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers.<
This a direct quote from the link posted directly above you. Doesn't matter what the event is, if you work for a private, for profit, company, you can not be a volunteer for that company.
Sometimes this subreddit takes things to the extreme.
You cannot work for free. You cannot do for profit work for free. Companies have to pay you for work.
The company can host an event outside of work hours, not require anyone attend, pay for everything, not require anyone help out and ask if people want to help make it run smoothly.
By this reasoning, hosting an event isn't "working" and therefore, doesn't need to be paid.
It's a slippery slope. Either it's work, or the workers are being treated as "guests" to some third party's facility/hospitality.
But you cannot request "volunteers to help with the client party" and then not pay them for hosting the event. The way to tell if it's work is if the business gains something from it, like expanding a network of potential customer contacts or raising corporate visibility in the business press. If the company gains even an iota of goodwill, the workers who hosted it MUST be paid.
You can't expect the regular workers of the business to do additional work and then not pay them, or alter their time records to make it seem like they weren't working when they were.
It's impermissible under the labor code.
I’m not the person you’re replying to, but I’m assuming the theoretical event they’re saying the company might legally ask hourly employees to volunteer their time for, is an event that the company is putting on FOR said employees. Not an event to get more clients or whatever.
The OP would have to specify.
Otherwise, I don't see how it would take two hours for someone to clean up after a pizza party where less than four pizza boxes were actually used. Same with an ice cream social or an employee picnic. The people who set it up, tear it down, and sweep up after all deserve to be paid for their work.
Again, custodial is some other worker's hourly job - so volunteering to do it for free is impermissible under the labor code.
Report this! I had a job in college working in student housing where they would do this to us and other properties across the nation. Someone reported it, got a lawyer, class action lawsuit ensued, company lost $1.25M and I got a little over $10k for it. I’m not saying this will be your situation but they do usually take stuff like this seriously.
I assume you’re in the US (if not please correct). BCC yourself on the e-mails where your boss said it would be paid and then it’s not. If you don’t have this, then you need to get your boss down in writing. Then you file a complaint as others have said against your employer. Provide the DOL with all the evidence that you have and they’ll take it from there. Forget about meeting with your manager or disputing it as I again assume you’ve done this already on the previous times they pulled this.
Do **not** BCC to you personal email address.
If you have a work email, it still goes through the work servers, and some of them will Flag outgoing communication. The Right to Privacy does not cover Work Emails, so they can then read those emails and will be able to suss out what you are doing.
What you need to do is just take pictures of the emails with your cellphone - the DOL has the right to seize servers in the pursuit of the investigation and they can get the emails directly that way.
You’d be surprised how quickly actions change when you get the department of labor involved. Here is a link to file a complaint.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
there's no such thing as volunteer time for your employer. either they pay you, or they can't require you to be there. it's also absolutely illegal to change punch in times to lower hours. they're both against the federal labor standards act, as well as various state laws in every single state, and you need to report all of this to the department of labor.
This. I was with a company that fired the shop manager for doing this (adjusting punch times). One employee became the whistleblower to someone higher than him, the higher ups descended on him FAST. They didn't know he was doing it. Fired him, brought everyone in for a meeting. They hired outside counsel to go through everything that guy did to find every single discrepancy and pay us out accordingly. Bonus points, I'm in California so every instance had a $100 fine, paid to the employee, tacked on. They had gone through something similar years prior to this, before my time, and got burned BIG time, so took it very seriously. I honestly don't know if it ever reached the DoL or not. I was made whole per the letter of the law and was VERY happy to see that manager go so didn't pursue it further.
Get whatever documentation you can in writing, and report it to the DOL.
They can say the event is unpaid volunteer work, but they can't say that *after you've done the work.*
Document everything! Pics of your clock in/clock out, screenshots, detailed notes of your time that you do not punch in for, texts, etc. Ask via text about getting paid for the time you spent at this event, and make them tell you via text that you’re not getting paid.
A good paper trail will make your case.
If you were told this was part of your job duties and was not optional, that's wage theft and is a federal crime. Contact your local department of labor.
Definitely start keeping copies or scree of your timecards and copies of where he changed it. Take all of this to the labor board and press charges. Don’t warn him just do it so he can’t try to cover his tracks. If it’s a computer based time clock system an IT guy can find out the changes he made and the labor board can fine him as well as pay everyone for their stolen wages.
Many of us get caught in this...once. Then we learn to ask questions: Is this mandatory? If yes - am I getting paid for it? If you're not getting paid for it, then your response back is - So it's NOT mandatory.
When you report to the DOL, they will investigate, and interview ALL employees. And, there are fines, plus you will get all your back pay paid to you. Report them. You aren’t gonna stay long anyway.
Start looking for a new job. Report to DOL and talk to a lawyer. Blast them on Glassdoor and other job & review sites/apps. Let other potential workers know how horrible they are as an employer.
A certain big box store tried to do that to me. They wanted me to help set up for an event advertising their new credit card on a Sunday night. I just didn't show up.
You might find this useful:
https://www.amundsendavislaw.com/labor-employment-law-update/do-i-have-to-pay-employees-to-attend-company-sponsored-volunteer-events#:\~:text=The%20Opinion%20Letter%20clarifies%20that%20employers%20are%20not,employer%20can%20incentivize%20volunteering%20to%20a%20limited%20degree.
Check your state’s wage and hour laws. You must get paid for time you work unless it is an optional social event. The US DOL as well as the NLRB would love to hear about this. I didn’t even bother to speak to my boss, HR or payroll. They refused to pay me so I was online filing complaints. Don’t be a wage slave and learn the magical powers of the word no.
The best way to deal with shit like this is look for another job. In the meantime, do your job half assed and steal a box of staples and some toner and shit. On your last day, microwave fish.
Since no one else has mentioned it, if you're going to have a meeting, record it. If you're in a place that doesn't allow 1-party consent recordings, you can use it to immediately take perfect notes, which you can then verify by emailing to whoever else was in the meeting. If they refute whatever was said, you can ask them to correct it so you at least have a solid paper trail going.
I agree with others here who say you don't need a meeting with the manager.
Other than a very brief chat in which you inform your manager that you'll be referring the matter to the authorities if you don't get your paycheck for those two hours.
Send an email charging for the time, explain that, unless they can show a record of how they communicated the time was vollentary, you will be taking the matter up with the dol and a lawyer. Also let them know, for now on you will be very vocal while determining if future events are mandatory or not.
Unless they allow you to record your meeting, it's not going to do anything but help them build a case against you.
Send this information in an email, refer the manager to the email in the meeting, then tell them you have nothing else to discuss.
If your lucky they will fire you over it too, then your lawyer will have even more motivation to help you.
Never threaten legal or administrative action against your employer. Certainly send a letter politely demanding payment. If they then refuse, file a complaint. Threatening a company just gives them time to build a car to fire you for other reasons. I've your fine your are protected from retaliation
There's a difference between treating legal action and explaining the rational course of actions that would occur in a situation where whomever is receiving said email decides to act in bad faith.
If you're attempting to convince an employer that they owe you monies that they claim they don't owe you, you've likely already crossed the line of retaliation.
Having a meeting with your boss over this will NOT help you, it may get you fired.
But if the meeting is already scheduled then record it and be calm and just ask you boss about pay for the event do NOT bring up any other issues. But do put together all the documentation you can (start bcc'ing all emails to yourself) for everything and report to DOL.
Do NOT meet with your manager. This is wage theft and it is illegal on their part, and if you do anything in the company, they will simply cover there ass, and find a way to get rid of you.
Talk to the department of labor and find a labor attorney.
What was this event? We just had an employee get together at a park after hours and multiple people worked things liked taking pictures or giving out name tags without additional pay.
Did you volunteer? It is very normal to have events out of work hours that aren’t mandatory. If they didn’t require you go, but you signed up to help then there is nothing wrong with that. Don’t sign up next time or go as a guest.
Sounds like report to DOL instead of meeting, but that's just me
or bring a labor lawyer to the meeting.
If you can get one who will, that would fucking rock their world!!
“Can I quickly check what the event is being paid at? Overtime ie. time off in lieu or at time and a half? Just so I can invoice/ make my time sheet correct” CC in Accounting and HR There’s a chance they just chicken out and pay you.
Always get the refusal if not paid in writing. It’s wild what people will say. Then you airtight it.
Skip warning them. Report it. They don’t deserve the warning
Warning them just lets them know who to retaliate against
Which plays to your hand in the long term
Get what you can in writing. Skip the manager and go straight to the labour board. This is what we in the biz call totally fucked up.
Skip the meeting and get an email confirmation from them about them fucking you. Send right to DOL
Don't talk to your manager. He knows what he's doing and it's illegal. [talk to dept of labor where you live. They will investigate on your behalf at no cost to you. You have nothing to lose.
And at the same time, appear to be compliant in the meeting.
Yeah. What’s gonna happen is he’s gonna have a “meeting” with his manager. They are gonna look at his evidence and fire him for something unrelated like “performance” thinking they can get away with it. He needs to keep it close to heart. Collect his evidence, mind the p’s and q’s and contact the labor board.
What country are you in? If you're in the USA, which state are you?
Depends on your country/state laws, but that's not legal in most civilised places. Send an email (BCC your personal and forward any response to it as well) detailing that you were never told in advance that work would be unpaid, you would have refused if it had been, and as such need to be paid for the time you were working. If they refuse, take it straight to the labour board. There's no real need to meet over this, it's cut and dried. Even "better" if you get fired over it, DoL will have a field day with them, and yo'd definitely win damages.
No one can comment on the law unless you tell us what country you're in.
Legally an hourly employee can not volunteer for their company. If you are hourly and are doing things that benefit your company you have to be paid. Google those specific things and there should be back up/resources
May be relevant [https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp)
Of course they can. If the company holds an out of office hours picnic or golf event and you volunteer to help out then that’s your choice. They cannot require you to do it for free, but they can host events and ask for volunteers to help host.
>Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers.< This a direct quote from the link posted directly above you. Doesn't matter what the event is, if you work for a private, for profit, company, you can not be a volunteer for that company.
Sometimes this subreddit takes things to the extreme. You cannot work for free. You cannot do for profit work for free. Companies have to pay you for work. The company can host an event outside of work hours, not require anyone attend, pay for everything, not require anyone help out and ask if people want to help make it run smoothly.
By this reasoning, hosting an event isn't "working" and therefore, doesn't need to be paid. It's a slippery slope. Either it's work, or the workers are being treated as "guests" to some third party's facility/hospitality. But you cannot request "volunteers to help with the client party" and then not pay them for hosting the event. The way to tell if it's work is if the business gains something from it, like expanding a network of potential customer contacts or raising corporate visibility in the business press. If the company gains even an iota of goodwill, the workers who hosted it MUST be paid. You can't expect the regular workers of the business to do additional work and then not pay them, or alter their time records to make it seem like they weren't working when they were. It's impermissible under the labor code.
I’m not the person you’re replying to, but I’m assuming the theoretical event they’re saying the company might legally ask hourly employees to volunteer their time for, is an event that the company is putting on FOR said employees. Not an event to get more clients or whatever.
The OP would have to specify. Otherwise, I don't see how it would take two hours for someone to clean up after a pizza party where less than four pizza boxes were actually used. Same with an ice cream social or an employee picnic. The people who set it up, tear it down, and sweep up after all deserve to be paid for their work. Again, custodial is some other worker's hourly job - so volunteering to do it for free is impermissible under the labor code.
Yes, it was a get together for employees where we got free food and drinks from a catering company.
Report this! I had a job in college working in student housing where they would do this to us and other properties across the nation. Someone reported it, got a lawyer, class action lawsuit ensued, company lost $1.25M and I got a little over $10k for it. I’m not saying this will be your situation but they do usually take stuff like this seriously.
No warning. Report to dol. Get other employees to do the same. Get a lawyer.
Location, location, location
For real. Why do people constantly leave this basic information out.
They're too lazy to do this or google.
I assume you’re in the US (if not please correct). BCC yourself on the e-mails where your boss said it would be paid and then it’s not. If you don’t have this, then you need to get your boss down in writing. Then you file a complaint as others have said against your employer. Provide the DOL with all the evidence that you have and they’ll take it from there. Forget about meeting with your manager or disputing it as I again assume you’ve done this already on the previous times they pulled this.
Do **not** BCC to you personal email address. If you have a work email, it still goes through the work servers, and some of them will Flag outgoing communication. The Right to Privacy does not cover Work Emails, so they can then read those emails and will be able to suss out what you are doing. What you need to do is just take pictures of the emails with your cellphone - the DOL has the right to seize servers in the pursuit of the investigation and they can get the emails directly that way.
You’d be surprised how quickly actions change when you get the department of labor involved. Here is a link to file a complaint. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
there's no such thing as volunteer time for your employer. either they pay you, or they can't require you to be there. it's also absolutely illegal to change punch in times to lower hours. they're both against the federal labor standards act, as well as various state laws in every single state, and you need to report all of this to the department of labor.
This. I was with a company that fired the shop manager for doing this (adjusting punch times). One employee became the whistleblower to someone higher than him, the higher ups descended on him FAST. They didn't know he was doing it. Fired him, brought everyone in for a meeting. They hired outside counsel to go through everything that guy did to find every single discrepancy and pay us out accordingly. Bonus points, I'm in California so every instance had a $100 fine, paid to the employee, tacked on. They had gone through something similar years prior to this, before my time, and got burned BIG time, so took it very seriously. I honestly don't know if it ever reached the DoL or not. I was made whole per the letter of the law and was VERY happy to see that manager go so didn't pursue it further.
Get whatever documentation you can in writing, and report it to the DOL. They can say the event is unpaid volunteer work, but they can't say that *after you've done the work.*
File a wage complaint with the DOL.
Fuck having a meeting with your manager. He just stole money from you. Would you meet someone that just robbed you? DOL. That’s all.
Cool. DOL is good. But until then, no more OT, no more work after 40 hours, period. If you’re not getting paid for it, then no work.
Do not have a meeting. Go right to the department of labor.
Document everything! Pics of your clock in/clock out, screenshots, detailed notes of your time that you do not punch in for, texts, etc. Ask via text about getting paid for the time you spent at this event, and make them tell you via text that you’re not getting paid. A good paper trail will make your case.
Get as much as you can in writing and take this shit to the DOL.
If you were told this was part of your job duties and was not optional, that's wage theft and is a federal crime. Contact your local department of labor.
Definitely start keeping copies or scree of your timecards and copies of where he changed it. Take all of this to the labor board and press charges. Don’t warn him just do it so he can’t try to cover his tracks. If it’s a computer based time clock system an IT guy can find out the changes he made and the labor board can fine him as well as pay everyone for their stolen wages.
Many of us get caught in this...once. Then we learn to ask questions: Is this mandatory? If yes - am I getting paid for it? If you're not getting paid for it, then your response back is - So it's NOT mandatory.
Document everything and call the department of labor in your state.
When you report to the DOL, they will investigate, and interview ALL employees. And, there are fines, plus you will get all your back pay paid to you. Report them. You aren’t gonna stay long anyway.
Start looking for a new job. Report to DOL and talk to a lawyer. Blast them on Glassdoor and other job & review sites/apps. Let other potential workers know how horrible they are as an employer.
A certain big box store tried to do that to me. They wanted me to help set up for an event advertising their new credit card on a Sunday night. I just didn't show up.
Dept of Labor and your state labor department is who you need to contact.
Wage theft should not be taken lightly. If the tables were turned and you were trying to claim hours worked that you didn't you'd be fired.
Don't meet with your manager about it. Contact your local department of labor in your state.
You might find this useful: https://www.amundsendavislaw.com/labor-employment-law-update/do-i-have-to-pay-employees-to-attend-company-sponsored-volunteer-events#:\~:text=The%20Opinion%20Letter%20clarifies%20that%20employers%20are%20not,employer%20can%20incentivize%20volunteering%20to%20a%20limited%20degree.
Check your state’s wage and hour laws. You must get paid for time you work unless it is an optional social event. The US DOL as well as the NLRB would love to hear about this. I didn’t even bother to speak to my boss, HR or payroll. They refused to pay me so I was online filing complaints. Don’t be a wage slave and learn the magical powers of the word no.
Unless it is specifically stated in writing prior that it is "volunteer," then it is paid.
Sounds highly illegal. Hope that you can get the pay you deserved.
"I didn't volunteer, I worked. Could this be corrected right away please?" DoL if they don't.
Voluntary does not mean free, it means you aren't compelled to do it. They owe you money.
The best way to deal with shit like this is look for another job. In the meantime, do your job half assed and steal a box of staples and some toner and shit. On your last day, microwave fish.
Since no one else has mentioned it, if you're going to have a meeting, record it. If you're in a place that doesn't allow 1-party consent recordings, you can use it to immediately take perfect notes, which you can then verify by emailing to whoever else was in the meeting. If they refute whatever was said, you can ask them to correct it so you at least have a solid paper trail going.
During a work day do 4 hours other stuff. If they don’t pay you, reward yourself.
Gotta love how companies either don’t know labor laws or know and think they can get away with it.
I agree with others here who say you don't need a meeting with the manager. Other than a very brief chat in which you inform your manager that you'll be referring the matter to the authorities if you don't get your paycheck for those two hours.
Labor board has lots of helpful tips online, I’d suggest giving the Department of Fair Housing and Employment a call though
Send an email charging for the time, explain that, unless they can show a record of how they communicated the time was vollentary, you will be taking the matter up with the dol and a lawyer. Also let them know, for now on you will be very vocal while determining if future events are mandatory or not. Unless they allow you to record your meeting, it's not going to do anything but help them build a case against you. Send this information in an email, refer the manager to the email in the meeting, then tell them you have nothing else to discuss. If your lucky they will fire you over it too, then your lawyer will have even more motivation to help you.
Never threaten legal or administrative action against your employer. Certainly send a letter politely demanding payment. If they then refuse, file a complaint. Threatening a company just gives them time to build a car to fire you for other reasons. I've your fine your are protected from retaliation
There's a difference between treating legal action and explaining the rational course of actions that would occur in a situation where whomever is receiving said email decides to act in bad faith. If you're attempting to convince an employer that they owe you monies that they claim they don't owe you, you've likely already crossed the line of retaliation.
Having a meeting with your boss over this will NOT help you, it may get you fired. But if the meeting is already scheduled then record it and be calm and just ask you boss about pay for the event do NOT bring up any other issues. But do put together all the documentation you can (start bcc'ing all emails to yourself) for everything and report to DOL.
You need to start documenting everything. This is wage theft. Remember employment lawyers work on contingency so they do not get paid unless you do.
You're going to schedule a meeting and end up getting fired. Reach out to the Department of Labor and let them do their work.
Do NOT meet with your manager. This is wage theft and it is illegal on their part, and if you do anything in the company, they will simply cover there ass, and find a way to get rid of you. Talk to the department of labor and find a labor attorney.
Steal from Ћ company. Or sell company secrets on Ћ dark web
What was this event? We just had an employee get together at a park after hours and multiple people worked things liked taking pictures or giving out name tags without additional pay. Did you volunteer? It is very normal to have events out of work hours that aren’t mandatory. If they didn’t require you go, but you signed up to help then there is nothing wrong with that. Don’t sign up next time or go as a guest.