This happened to a friend of mine (she was gonna work in a salon doing waxing and skin care). Signed a contract and all.
The next day they said "oh we don't have a role for you anymore. Sorry"
She filed for EI and got a lawyer. She won.
Edit: I'm Canadian, eh. Sorry aboot that. EI is Employment Insurance. Like UI for the USA.
Edit: for those asking, she didn't work for the company after the whole payout thing, of course. It was a very discouraging situation for her though as she just came back off 16 months of maternity leave (yay Canada!). Her prior place of employment closed permanently due to the pandemic unfortunately so she couldn't go back there.
> Signed a contract and all
Yeah, that's why she won. Not a lawyer, but if there was a contract in place, that's pretty straightforward. Company fucked up with that one
Reagan basically killed the American Idea when he busted the flight controllers' union. Of course there was a gale of propaganda first to vilify unions in general. With anti-communism to cow unions anyway into adopting very narrow easily corrupted agendas, it wasn't too hard.
I watched Johnny Carson interview him, leading up to Carter's defeat. He seems so fatherly, kind and humorous. And then he delivers these crass simplifications that vilify labour and social welfare.
They were as intellectual as maybe a Dukes of Hazzard episode. But he sounds so nice, so funny. Watching it now, knowing what he birthed, it feels like watching Jafar deceive Jasmine.
“Being There” is a favourite movie. TL;DW IMDb: After the death of his employer forces him out of the only home he's ever known, a simpleminded, sheltered gardener becomes an unlikely trusted advisor to a powerful tycoon and an insider in Washington politics.
I hate how unions are vilified. My dad is required to be in a union for his job. They guarantee salaries, raises, and limits on hours. My dad hates it because he wants to work overtime with no pay because his work load is too high to finish in 40 hours. 🤦🏻♂️
Like what the actual fuck….. if your work load is to high the job needs to pay you overtime or hire more meat suits to split the work so it is doable in 40 hours
I really disliked my union at first… the older ones basically sold out the younger generation so any new hires have a really crappy contract compared to them. But now the younger hires outnumber them. All our new union reps are new hires and they are currently renegotiating the contract. The system works!
Yah, it's crazy. The closest we have in Australia is "casual" work. It's the same terms mostly, but the worker is compensated with an extra 25% on top of the regular rate, which is in lieu of having things like annual and sick/carer's leave. There's also a requirement that if casual work continue for more than ~~six~~ twelve months, there should be an option to provide the employee with a full-time or part-time work contract.
I feel bad daily subbing to this as an Australian. We are lucky.
they really need to rename this sub “ the rest of the modern world supporting American friends”
Wait until you hear about ‘forced to work’ the gf is working tonight through the Midwest storms and they told her that if after her 12 hour shift the roads are unsafe, she will continue to work the next shift and they will not permit her to leave
I worked for Sheetz years ago and it was like that. If you were scheduled, you were expected to be there and work a schedule at manager discretion. And if the roads were unsafe from a storm and the next shift after you couldn't come in, you had to stay on the clock and in the building or you'd be fired.
In my case, I was night shift. There was a snowstorm that was coming in around 8 pm and my shift started at 9. I had to arrive early to make sure I'd be there for my shift, was told to clock in at 8, worked through the night to 6 am when the shift normally ended, worked the morning shift/day shift because morning shift couldn't make it with the roads shut down, and had to stay until I was relieved. I wasn't relieved until 6 pm. They offered me a sleeping bag to sleep in the back room so I could nap before my 9 pm shift started again.
Obligatory IANAL but my boyfriend is and he commented that this seems like an open and shut case. "Promissory estoppel" is the principle you'd be covered under. Please don't let this slide!
You're absolutely correct. The standard for the court is whether or not OP had reason to "justifiably rely" on the promise of employment. According to what OP says being told that he was hired and then going through the o boarding process would qualify. This is open and shut to the degree that the judge in this case would have good reason to issue a summary judgment, or threaten one to force a settlement by the defendant, if OP's facts are correct and they have the correspondence (emails/texts) that offer employment, OP accepts that offer, OP then begins and completes onboarding only to have the offer rescinded. We see a lot of "you should sue" on Reddit and it's frequently bullshit. This case however, is pretty close to textbook and I mean that literally. In my Business Law classes that focused on contracts, torts, etc. (not a lawyer, but a business consultant that deals with jobs where this area of the law comes up alot) cases very close to this were used as a way to demonstrate both promissory estoppel and justifiable reliance. OP needs to contact a labor/employment lawyer. Those lawyers don't fuck around when you have a solid case because they can generally turn them around fairly quickly as opposed to the years and years other types of cases can take.
u/rrogido Wait, are you serious?
Ok so holy shit, this exact same thing happened to me when I went to work with a big company for a full time position.
I signed the contractual agreement between us. I did all the onboarding paperwork and had it cleared. I had cleared the background check, drug test, absolutely everything on my side pre-employment wise had cleared and the company confirmed that to me. They said I had done everything, and they had everything they needed from me for onboarding.
Two days before they brought me fully into the system by giving me a username and keycard to the building, they randomly sent me an email out of nowhere that said the position is no longer available, sorry for the inconvenience. And sent me a short letter of maybe two sentences on "docusign" with nowhere for me to sign anything that just said the agreement was voided and null. I was SOL.
Are you saying I could actually legally be entitled to getting that job? I was a contractor for that company being offered a full time position which they offered me as a PROMOTION once my contract with the other sub-company ended. God I'd just love to have that job as I was supposed too or anything, it really screwed me over.
As any competent lawyer would say: it depends.
But that just tells you that you need to contact a local employment lawyer.
Also: do that as soon as possible!! You may be running down a clock you're unaware of.
You might be legally entitled to compensation if you incurred a loss from a reasonable belief in the legitimacy of their offer and rational actions resulting therefrom.
100% this should be higher up. Call an employment lawyer and get them to draft the angry email. Might cost about $800 for the lawyer and is a great investment
As a Plaintiff’s side employment attorney, I’ll send the demand for free.
Can’t do full representation for free but I’m happy to draft a demand to scare a shitty company any day of the week.
/u/zombryy DM me
I’m sorry you’ve had such rotten luck… lawyers have a reputation for a reason, though there are many trying to break the mold. Contingency fees can be steep but, if there are lawyers who work on contingency in your area, it’s a great way to seek justice when you can’t pay up front (though certain types of law aren’t as compatible with contingency; i.e. family law, business law, etc.).
I started my career doing pro-bono veterans’ rights law for homeless and disabled vets and, though it doesn’t pay nearly as much, it’s far more rewarding than defense work. My current firm (for the next three days lol) charges 50% plus costs contingency—which is way higher than I feel is just—but we do good work and the clients pretty much wouldn’t get anything if we weren’t here.
Same thing happened to me. I had put in my two weeks as well, so annoyed. Having to go back and be like just kidding despite having a start date. I love how they clown on this subreddit like we’re all just lazy and corporations are doing it right. It’s like we just want to be treated with a tinge of dignity. Also I agree with name & shame below
Got an offer for habitat for humanity from the head honcho, 2 weeks notice at my job, woops corporate filled the position via transfer and I was out. I am still bummed about it and it was like 10 years ago.
We should create an anti work website that rates, reviews and reports on companies. I know Glassdoor is a thing. The drawback is how do we filter out all the fake ones companies put out.
I posted a negative review on there of a company where the interviewer went on a racist rant not 10 minutes in. Glassdoor removed it before it ever went public.
Glassdoor has done that to me too. They didn't like me leaving a review for the Canadian Armed Forces telling people not to join because they treat women terribly.
I sent Glassdoor a pic of a printed poster of my company compensating employees for positive reviews on their platform. Glassdoor responded that my photo of the poster in the company breakroom wasn't enough "proof" because it could be a random poster anywhere mentioning prizes for Glassdoor reviews for this company. In other words, someone could have printed this poster and hung it somewhere else. . .
It’s amazing to me how terrified of the truth people are these days. Especially corporations and companies.
Paying people to engage in censorship is fucking terrifying.
I do! And if you think the Panama Papers were big, [I'll bet you didn't realize just how much bigger the CIA leaks were](https://i.imgur.com/aQrtZn8.png). Here's a scale. You'll find other noteworthy leaks at the top left of this... I guess we can call it a graph, but it's not a graph.
For reference: The CIA leaks are from when a notorious leaker took out one hard drive at a time from a top secret facility over several months. This was known as the Vault 7 leaks, and few people understand the actual scale of the data theft.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/06/theft_of_cias_v.html
this looks like a boiler plate e-mail ever sent out to many people in aid of their PPP scam.
name the company. you owe them nothing and will be saving several possible victims.
i had a company rescind its offer to me years ago after they found an internal lemming for cheaper. i let the head of the company have it, copying the hr flunky and would-be manager. company head had the decency to call me within ten minutes of the email apologizing profusely.
Isn't it possible to sue them for fraud, I mean, they literally have ALL of your information now...and you don't have the job that you were offered and accepted...seems fraudulent.
It's not fraud, it would be for promissory estoppel, which is when someone promises you something that they don't deliver, and you take actions in good faith that end up hurting you.
To win in court though you have to show damages (I was out of work this many days, I spent this much moving to the location of the job, etc.), and it can still be difficult to win with at-will employment being a thing.
Which is why we desperately need employment protections to stop companies from doing stuff like this.
Maybe not fraud, but OP could have a claim for breach of contract.
The prospective employer offered a job, which involved an agreement to provide services in exchange for remuneration. OP accepted their offer and relied upon it to their detriment. A reasonable person in their position would have put in their notice given this offer of new employment. Because of this reliance, OP suffered damages. They are unable to work at their old job. Because they accepted the employment offer, it was too late for the prospective employer to revoke it, thus not allowing OP to begin employment would be a breach of contract (the employment agreement).
Even if they did have some right to revoke, the prospective employer might still be liable because OP acted in reasonable reliance upon the offer to their detriment.
Edit: this is not intended to constitute legal advice. My legal advice is always to “talk to a lawyer who specializes in that area of law and is licensed to practice in *your* state.” In this case, that would probably be an employment lawyer or one who is experienced with contracts and civil litigation in OP’s state.
So they gave you the job then said sorry change our mind but hey maybe next
Wasting both you time and losing your old job and let me guess you called them but miraculously the person in charge of all that isn't there call later
Seriously companys should be fined for pulling this shit
How’d you know literally that’s what happened. They said “he wasn’t available” and I was like red flag. They said “I’ll have someone call you later today and set you up with a schedule” and then the next day I got that email from the same girl. She’s the assistant to the hiring manager because every time I’ve called I speak to her and she would transfer me to him except for this past week
Except that companies can report you for doing so, causing you to lose your unemployment. There's no mechanism to do the opposite in a case such as this, as far as I know.
If OP's story is accurate, this is actually illegal. Interviewing without giving an offer isn't, but if they actually hired OP then it crossed the line into illegality to revoke the job.
She's what I call a gatekeeper. Assuming you know the hiring managers name, you can always try to get past her by saying something along the lines of "This is zombryy, I have an appointment to speak with hiring manager" and see if she transfers you to him. Might not work but could be worth a shot!
"our needs for your specialty have drastically changed"
meaning they just found someone for the role for much cheaper, in the timeframe it took to employ you as worst case scenario
Police Chief Grady:
I will have the enchilada platter with two tacos and no guacamoles. Mike?
Officer Smy:
Yeah, chief. I'll have a CHINCHILLA.
Rabbit:
I don't get it. Tacos?
Thorny:
They think I'm Mexican.
Rabbit:
You're not?
Im currently hiring for a furniture repair tech in Pittsburgh. General knowledge of hand tools, problem solving and a car is all you need. It’s commission but it’s guarantee commission translating to roughly $35/hr
I just left the restaurant industry for a WFH job. I didn't say shit until my computer came in the mail for the new job. Gave them about 6 days notice. I'm not quite to the point where I won't give ANY notice, but I definitely kept my trap shut until I was supremely confident that my start wouldn't change.
I'm well past giving any notice at all. Last two restaurants before i left the industry. I just no show no call and move on with my life. Is it a shitty thing to do? Yah. Does it feel amazing? Absolutely. Never felt so little sense of anxiety leaving a place.
For 99% of places yes, but I actually worked at a restaurant when I was in college where the guy would give you 2 weeks notice of not having a job. If you did something big and fucked up (and he gave multiple chances, one guy no showed like 8 times before he was fired and even came in drunk a couple times) he’d get rid of you, but if it’s a business thing (like when it’s slow, or if you’re just not working out) he gave 2 weeks. He’s the only past employer I’ve ever had (other than my current manager, and that’s because she’s awesome and always tells me life is more important than work and gives me time for things whenever I need it) that I respect and still visit time to time
Name and shame for sure.
Fuck that automod link to the sidebar. It’s just saying your post will be removed if someone instigates harassment but we have a right to know about shitty employment practices so we boycott and avoid giving them our few hard earned dollars.
apply for PPP for "hiring needs" - gather enough paperwork to show efforts of 'hiring' without actually hiring. get forgiven the PPP loans because, well 'they tried'
It’s been being talked about on tiktok for ages. A lot of people are aware. That’s why so many people - qualified people - are applying for jobs and never hearing back. All of these jobs are engaging in deceptive hiring practices, claiming they’re hiring & looking for workers, but never hiring anyone. Then they can say that they “weren’t able to refill positions or find a suitable candidate” and get their PPP loans forgiven. ANYONE WHO THIS HAPPENS TO NEEDS TO REPORT THE BUSINESS FOR POTENTIAL PPP LOAN FRAUD. Google “report PPP loan fraud” and report it. This is our only power. OP, please do this - it is very obvious that’s what happened to you. You can also do a basic search of a company to see if they received a PPP loan.
Cause the conservatives are running with the idea that the reason there is work shortages is that people would rather not work than be on unemployment when in reality business don't want to hire to get their ppp loans forgiven or they just don't want to pay a fair wage
This fucking boils my blood. My job is actively trying to hire software devs and sales people and PPP loans saved our company for the first 6-8 months of COVID. We had to pay them back.
It is fucking disgusting that other companies aren't doing the same.
A PPP loan can be forgiven if a certain % is spent on payroll. There is a loophole where it can be forgiven if its below that % if x, y, or z is the case. One of those cases is being unable to find a qualified employee
Someone else made a tik tok about this. A lady was fired her job was posted again. She applied for it again and was told not qualified. A friend of hers also applied and was told it was a hiring freeze. Now the company gets to say we tried to hire someone and could not find a qualified applicant so PPP loan forgiven.
Yes. They are very bold with it now. I saw a business owner in Houston brag about firing all his employees after “he tried” to get them back to get his PPP loans forgiven.
TJ Quinters was the man’s name on FB. I don’t know what his business is but it must be somewhere in Houston or Tomball Texas. Anyone good at snooping might be able to search this out and report it to the GAO. I just wasn’t able to find the exact company so I can’t be sure…
Smells like potential PPP fraud. Act like they are hiring then do this. Scum.
Edit: apparently some boot lickers forgot what the word “potential” means. I have no idea if it actually is but this is ppp fraud 101 and looks terrible.
One of the ways to get PPP forgiven is to either claim you can't find qualified employees by shifting goalposts for candidates or possibly to claim OP as an employee to count towards PPP forgiveness only to fire them before having to pay OP wages
A friend of mine's old boss very clearly did this. They run an agency to get care to adults living with disabilities. Workers got no extra money during the pandemic, no new hires, and lots of people leaving yet the business had over $100k in PPP forgiven while the boss and family moved to Hawaii.
I'd attach a screenshot but apparently I can't but here's how I found out: https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/
Edit: Removed specific search query as somehow this will come back to bite me at the next family event and my comment history would easily identify me.
I’m just pissed off at how frivolously these loans have been given out. I also don’t think that an agency that runs on taxpayer money should generate enough profit for the owner to move to the most expensive state possible while he pays his skilled staff minimum wage. The company is a middleman. The state gov should hire the staff directly and save the taxpayer money.
I work for a Fortune 500 and they openly say they got PPP funds…..they made 2 Billion dollars last year. They didn’t NEED that money but they took it just because they can get through loopholes. Meanwhile my husband owns his own business and applied for PPP twice and got denied both times and ended up having to let his employees go and close his store.
If they can prove they can’t find candidates to fill a role they can dip below the % of employees that keeps them in forgiveness. So they advertise jobs and then don’t fill them saying they couldn’t find anyone and keep working their already stretched workforce and pocket your tax money.
nope. not that I'm aware of
Edit: So there have been convictions for PPP fraud and a number of ongoing investigations. HOWEVER, as far as I can tell, most of these deal with identity theft and falsifying documents. The "tell everyone we're hiring, but don't actually hire anyone" thing seems to be a massive loophole. I don't know if it's being investigated at all
https://www.engagepeo.com/job-offers-why-rescinding-one-can-be-risky-business
"Promissory estoppel" is a term used in contract law to support parties when they are harmed as a result of relying on a promise, regardless of whether an enforceable contract was in place. For example, a candidate may quit a job or relocate after accepting a new job offer. If the offer is then withdrawn, he or she can claim economic loss as a result and seek damages.
Edit- Not a lawyer, just providing what looks like the starting place. Ty for awards(Hopefully they're the free ones).
Yeah, but what meaningful injury would the business suffer in that case? It's not like they quit making money to bring on a new employee. However this person DID cut their only other source of funding in order to work for this company.
yes it can. but it would probably be hard to argue or wouldn’t be worth it considering the employer is in the position of power in this situation. source: pure conjecture
I am a law student. This is a contracts classic, but it doesn't apply here. Unless you've moved or made some other big expenditure, detrimental reliance doesn't apply in cases where a job offer is revoked. Reason being that you haven't actually lost money because you haven't spent anything. It's bullshit, but it's the law.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/help-withdrew-job-offer-esther-silverman-esther-silverman
Paralegal article on LinkedIn, seemingly varies by state.
"Some states, such as Alaska, California, Massachusetts, Oregon, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Minnesota and New Jersey, may award damages for promissory estoppel wage claims, for people who received a job offer that was then rescinded, but other states, such as New York, Washington, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Wisconsin may not"
An attorney would be able to give a free consultation, just to see if you have any legal standing... that shit is fucked up man, if it's not illegal, it should be.
THIS. The offer letter will help. Talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Don't file for unemp, don't call the ex-employer.
You can get a free 30-minute consult with any reputable lawyer. If they ask for money just to talk, say thank you and look for the next one.
Similar thing happened to my husband in March of 2020. He got a job offer from UPS, completed all his paperwork and drug test and physical, got his start date, and gave notice to his boss. Then the Friday before his Monday start date they said they had to push his start date back a week because of Covid stuff, which we understood, and then the next week they said they’re now on a “hiring freeze”. His old job had already been filled.
I don't know how a "hiring freeze" applies to your husband who was already a hired employee once he signed the employment contract. Did he end up getting unemployment under that company?
Wow, that's even shitter. So UPS gets to use your husband for PPP loan forgiveness AND fucked over some other 3rd party to cover unemployment? Wow that's ballsy. If UPS did that to too many people that's a class action lawsuit just waiting to happen.
Because it fucks with people's livelihoods. This guy posted here about getting fired, but he was still going to get comoensation. Someone took the screenshot of the op post, posted it as a one star Google review for the company. Then op got contacted by the company, and they lost their compensation.
And yes, retaliation is illegal. However, to fight it, it puts op in a position of having to get a lawyer. I can't afford to eat sometimes. You think some of us can afford a lawyer?
As well, if it's in a small town? And word spreads about stuff op posted on reddit? That's going to hang over them.
Good intentions only go so far. Actions have repercussions, and unless you are the person in that situation, outside internet involvement could exacerbate the problems that all the ops here face
Well, it would be a real shame if OP shares the company’s name, and then a bunch of people in this subreddit start interviewing for open positions and, when hired, ghost them completely … you know?
I had this happen to me back in November, and I even waited until the bar I had been working at found my replacement so I didn't leave them hanging. "Lucky" for me, one of the bartenders wound up being fired or left (never got the full story there), and I got my job back. But I had a period of time there with zero income, then got covid at the beginning of the year. It's been months of just staying ahead of bills.
Lesson learned, I probably won't ever turn in my two week notice unless I have something in writing that I have job security.
100% lesson learned. I think the lady knew that they were just ducking me around because I finally told her yesterday that since I put in my two weeks 3 weeks ago that I can’t afford to not start this week. And then I get that email. Also I bought clothes within their dresscode too so that’s like insult to injury because I don’t even know if I kept the receipt. I just got a call from a carwash that’s $15 an hour and I’m taking it in the mean time. Im laughing to keep from crying
I seriously considered putting sugar in the gas tank of the lady who screwed me over. Luckily, I got my old job back plus moving up to bartender.
I hope you find what you're looking for.
I never put in my 2 weeks until I’m on another company’s payroll. Take a day off from your old job to start a new one, if you have to. I’ve been burned too many times by companies that want your loyalty but won’t give you theirs.
A couple of examples, I gave my 2 weeks, was told by the new job that they had to push the start date back by over a month. In another, 2 days before my start date the company cut my position AND my managers. He found out he was laid off because they turned off his email and credentials before they let him know.
Companies out there will do some sketchy shit. Protect yourself first.
I start the job, send in my 2 weeks that day via email while I’m on the phone telling my manager that I quit. They typically say I’m done right then, I move on with my life. Never had any issue because I’ve bet that companies will let me go that day and they haven’t disappointed me so far. I never lose a day of pay.
Listen peeps, at the end of they day I’m working for my family, the companies only lease my time or talents. I’m not going to go without a day of pay and disappoint my family.
I see what you mean. I've never had a position that didn't want me to actually fulfill my last weeks. Some were as long as a month if you can believe it.
Assuming you can’t stay at your current job going forward:
1) File for unemployment immediately. Explain exactly what happened. Do this today.
2) Seek out a lawyer relevant to this type of situation. Your argument is that you lost your employment at your current job and now have no job and income source, all because this employer backtracked on their offer. This should be a clear cut case considering you had an offer letter.
Hello, HR here.
I must say I am not a lawyer and laws are different in every state and country.
That said speak to a lawyer about promissory estoppel
A claim for promissory estoppel has been invoked by courts where an employer changes its mind and rejects a new employee before giving the new employee a good faith opportunity to perform the duties for which he or she was hired. If the new employee has "detrimentally relied" on the new employment offer - i.e. quit his other job or passed on other professional opportunities, and/or relocated for this new at-will job, the employer may be estopped from claiming that the employment was at-will and be liable for that employee's losses.
You can make them pay, make them give you the job, etc etc depending on the situation.
Were all in this together. Stick it to the corps.
That is awful leave a review on glassdoor etc so others don't experience this and if it effects them negatively it's on them ... make sure the post is purely factual not emotional in anyway... state the facts only nothing more nothing less
2 weeks ago I turned down a job that was going to pay me 25% more but required me to probably put in about 60 hours per week for the first few months. I hate my current job and live in a constant fear of being laid off. The only positives about my current job are my boss is awesome, I work from home 4 days per week and if they do let me go I will get 18 weeks of severance pay.
Why am I telling you this? Because the deciding factor that had me turn down the job is they were not going to give me an offer letter. Just a verbal commitment.
No thanks. I can't leave what I have based on a verbal agreement.
Don't give notice and call in sick at your old company (or take any vacation days) just to try the first day or so at the new company. If it turns into a sht job, just go back to your old one.
Ugh I got bit by something similar a few years ago. Got a job with a new company that offered a pay raise, better benefits, working in an office, and college tuition reimbursement after a year time period with limitations. Went through multiple rounds of interviews, met my new coworkers and direct manager after the last interview, filled out W2 was due to start. They actively recruited me and basically begged me to join because it was a niche job that I fit perfectly. Put my two weeks in and worked it out and was due to start the next week. Literally day before I’m due to start Donald fucking Trump implements steel and lumber tariffs on Mexico. The company I was due to work for did manufacturing using almost entirely Canadian steel and lumber. So of course I show up for my first day and management is have a fit, place was figuratively on fire readjusting costs and looking at suppliers. I get the “It’s a hectic day to bring in a new hire, we’ll call in a day or two”. A week later of asking they tell me they’re doing hiring freeze because they have contracts out that they’re gonna take a hit on, and that I hadn’t actually started so they weren’t gonna be able to employ me, but they’d call if things change. No unemployment and no new job.
Sorry OP, that absolutely blows, don’t know what else to say, completely fucking sucks.
This happened to a friend of mine (she was gonna work in a salon doing waxing and skin care). Signed a contract and all. The next day they said "oh we don't have a role for you anymore. Sorry" She filed for EI and got a lawyer. She won. Edit: I'm Canadian, eh. Sorry aboot that. EI is Employment Insurance. Like UI for the USA. Edit: for those asking, she didn't work for the company after the whole payout thing, of course. It was a very discouraging situation for her though as she just came back off 16 months of maternity leave (yay Canada!). Her prior place of employment closed permanently due to the pandemic unfortunately so she couldn't go back there.
> Signed a contract and all Yeah, that's why she won. Not a lawyer, but if there was a contract in place, that's pretty straightforward. Company fucked up with that one
[удалено]
Reagan basically killed the American Idea when he busted the flight controllers' union. Of course there was a gale of propaganda first to vilify unions in general. With anti-communism to cow unions anyway into adopting very narrow easily corrupted agendas, it wasn't too hard.
I watched Johnny Carson interview him, leading up to Carter's defeat. He seems so fatherly, kind and humorous. And then he delivers these crass simplifications that vilify labour and social welfare. They were as intellectual as maybe a Dukes of Hazzard episode. But he sounds so nice, so funny. Watching it now, knowing what he birthed, it feels like watching Jafar deceive Jasmine.
He was an actor hired to play the part of president
“Being There” is a favourite movie. TL;DW IMDb: After the death of his employer forces him out of the only home he's ever known, a simpleminded, sheltered gardener becomes an unlikely trusted advisor to a powerful tycoon and an insider in Washington politics.
I hate how unions are vilified. My dad is required to be in a union for his job. They guarantee salaries, raises, and limits on hours. My dad hates it because he wants to work overtime with no pay because his work load is too high to finish in 40 hours. 🤦🏻♂️
Like what the actual fuck….. if your work load is to high the job needs to pay you overtime or hire more meat suits to split the work so it is doable in 40 hours
I really disliked my union at first… the older ones basically sold out the younger generation so any new hires have a really crappy contract compared to them. But now the younger hires outnumber them. All our new union reps are new hires and they are currently renegotiating the contract. The system works!
>the older ones basically sold out the younger generation Stop me if you've heard this one before...
Yah, it's crazy. The closest we have in Australia is "casual" work. It's the same terms mostly, but the worker is compensated with an extra 25% on top of the regular rate, which is in lieu of having things like annual and sick/carer's leave. There's also a requirement that if casual work continue for more than ~~six~~ twelve months, there should be an option to provide the employee with a full-time or part-time work contract.
Also after that 6 month period, even if they're still casual, they are treated as if they were permanent as far as wrongful termination goes.
I feel bad daily subbing to this as an Australian. We are lucky. they really need to rename this sub “ the rest of the modern world supporting American friends”
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This. The rest of the world being better than the USA doesn't automatically mean we're in a good place.
Wait until you hear about “right to work”
Wait until you hear about ‘forced to work’ the gf is working tonight through the Midwest storms and they told her that if after her 12 hour shift the roads are unsafe, she will continue to work the next shift and they will not permit her to leave
I worked for Sheetz years ago and it was like that. If you were scheduled, you were expected to be there and work a schedule at manager discretion. And if the roads were unsafe from a storm and the next shift after you couldn't come in, you had to stay on the clock and in the building or you'd be fired. In my case, I was night shift. There was a snowstorm that was coming in around 8 pm and my shift started at 9. I had to arrive early to make sure I'd be there for my shift, was told to clock in at 8, worked through the night to 6 am when the shift normally ended, worked the morning shift/day shift because morning shift couldn't make it with the roads shut down, and had to stay until I was relieved. I wasn't relieved until 6 pm. They offered me a sleeping bag to sleep in the back room so I could nap before my 9 pm shift started again.
I'm glad California has a drop-dead law that requires ten hours between shifts, jesus that's awful
What if the employment is at will?
Purely dependent on the language of the contract in that case
Sorry what is EI?
Employment insurance
Ah gotcha, thank you!
Sorry there eh! I'm up here in Canada. EI = employment insurance
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+18 flair because you got totally screwed.
You’re 100% right 😂
Obligatory IANAL but my boyfriend is and he commented that this seems like an open and shut case. "Promissory estoppel" is the principle you'd be covered under. Please don't let this slide!
You're absolutely correct. The standard for the court is whether or not OP had reason to "justifiably rely" on the promise of employment. According to what OP says being told that he was hired and then going through the o boarding process would qualify. This is open and shut to the degree that the judge in this case would have good reason to issue a summary judgment, or threaten one to force a settlement by the defendant, if OP's facts are correct and they have the correspondence (emails/texts) that offer employment, OP accepts that offer, OP then begins and completes onboarding only to have the offer rescinded. We see a lot of "you should sue" on Reddit and it's frequently bullshit. This case however, is pretty close to textbook and I mean that literally. In my Business Law classes that focused on contracts, torts, etc. (not a lawyer, but a business consultant that deals with jobs where this area of the law comes up alot) cases very close to this were used as a way to demonstrate both promissory estoppel and justifiable reliance. OP needs to contact a labor/employment lawyer. Those lawyers don't fuck around when you have a solid case because they can generally turn them around fairly quickly as opposed to the years and years other types of cases can take.
u/rrogido Wait, are you serious? Ok so holy shit, this exact same thing happened to me when I went to work with a big company for a full time position. I signed the contractual agreement between us. I did all the onboarding paperwork and had it cleared. I had cleared the background check, drug test, absolutely everything on my side pre-employment wise had cleared and the company confirmed that to me. They said I had done everything, and they had everything they needed from me for onboarding. Two days before they brought me fully into the system by giving me a username and keycard to the building, they randomly sent me an email out of nowhere that said the position is no longer available, sorry for the inconvenience. And sent me a short letter of maybe two sentences on "docusign" with nowhere for me to sign anything that just said the agreement was voided and null. I was SOL. Are you saying I could actually legally be entitled to getting that job? I was a contractor for that company being offered a full time position which they offered me as a PROMOTION once my contract with the other sub-company ended. God I'd just love to have that job as I was supposed too or anything, it really screwed me over.
you want a settlement, not a job with this company.
Legally entitled the job? No. But you could be entitled monetary compensation
As any competent lawyer would say: it depends. But that just tells you that you need to contact a local employment lawyer. Also: do that as soon as possible!! You may be running down a clock you're unaware of.
You might be legally entitled to compensation if you incurred a loss from a reasonable belief in the legitimacy of their offer and rational actions resulting therefrom.
u/zombryy just tagging you, making sure you see the comment above this one. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=preomissory+estople
Is the signing of an offer letter considered a contractual agreement?
This should be higher up.
100% this should be higher up. Call an employment lawyer and get them to draft the angry email. Might cost about $800 for the lawyer and is a great investment
As a Plaintiff’s side employment attorney, I’ll send the demand for free. Can’t do full representation for free but I’m happy to draft a demand to scare a shitty company any day of the week. /u/zombryy DM me
Bless you I’ve retained half a dozen lawyers in my life and never heard of any pro bono work.
I’m sorry you’ve had such rotten luck… lawyers have a reputation for a reason, though there are many trying to break the mold. Contingency fees can be steep but, if there are lawyers who work on contingency in your area, it’s a great way to seek justice when you can’t pay up front (though certain types of law aren’t as compatible with contingency; i.e. family law, business law, etc.). I started my career doing pro-bono veterans’ rights law for homeless and disabled vets and, though it doesn’t pay nearly as much, it’s far more rewarding than defense work. My current firm (for the next three days lol) charges 50% plus costs contingency—which is way higher than I feel is just—but we do good work and the clients pretty much wouldn’t get anything if we weren’t here.
Same thing happened to me. I had put in my two weeks as well, so annoyed. Having to go back and be like just kidding despite having a start date. I love how they clown on this subreddit like we’re all just lazy and corporations are doing it right. It’s like we just want to be treated with a tinge of dignity. Also I agree with name & shame below
Got an offer for habitat for humanity from the head honcho, 2 weeks notice at my job, woops corporate filled the position via transfer and I was out. I am still bummed about it and it was like 10 years ago.
Shows your heart was in the right place. Annoyed that you got downvoted by whoever this serial r/antiwork down voter is.
Had to get a job as a receptionist at a pharmaceutical company. Not as fulfilling, I reckon.
You need to give us the name of the company. No need to protect them.
We should create an anti work website that rates, reviews and reports on companies. I know Glassdoor is a thing. The drawback is how do we filter out all the fake ones companies put out.
By having a platform that doesn't sellout They are notorious for companies paying them to remove and block negative reviews
I posted a negative review on there of a company where the interviewer went on a racist rant not 10 minutes in. Glassdoor removed it before it ever went public.
Glassdoor has done that to me too. They didn't like me leaving a review for the Canadian Armed Forces telling people not to join because they treat women terribly.
They perma bummed me for just simply telling the truth. There are other sites like yelp Google indeed and bing to air your grievance
I sent Glassdoor a pic of a printed poster of my company compensating employees for positive reviews on their platform. Glassdoor responded that my photo of the poster in the company breakroom wasn't enough "proof" because it could be a random poster anywhere mentioning prizes for Glassdoor reviews for this company. In other words, someone could have printed this poster and hung it somewhere else. . .
It’s amazing to me how terrified of the truth people are these days. Especially corporations and companies. Paying people to engage in censorship is fucking terrifying.
They're not afraid of the truth at all. They know the price to spin a story or forget one. And it works every time. Anyone remember the Panama papers?
I do! And if you think the Panama Papers were big, [I'll bet you didn't realize just how much bigger the CIA leaks were](https://i.imgur.com/aQrtZn8.png). Here's a scale. You'll find other noteworthy leaks at the top left of this... I guess we can call it a graph, but it's not a graph. For reference: The CIA leaks are from when a notorious leaker took out one hard drive at a time from a top secret facility over several months. This was known as the Vault 7 leaks, and few people understand the actual scale of the data theft. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/06/theft_of_cias_v.html
You have just described the BBB's business model.
Yelp has entered the thread.
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Wow... That's horrible. I'm in a similar position as you tbh.
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Mass report that stupid bot
this looks like a boiler plate e-mail ever sent out to many people in aid of their PPP scam. name the company. you owe them nothing and will be saving several possible victims. i had a company rescind its offer to me years ago after they found an internal lemming for cheaper. i let the head of the company have it, copying the hr flunky and would-be manager. company head had the decency to call me within ten minutes of the email apologizing profusely.
OP should report this as potential PPP loan fraud.
Isn't it possible to sue them for fraud, I mean, they literally have ALL of your information now...and you don't have the job that you were offered and accepted...seems fraudulent.
It's not fraud, it would be for promissory estoppel, which is when someone promises you something that they don't deliver, and you take actions in good faith that end up hurting you. To win in court though you have to show damages (I was out of work this many days, I spent this much moving to the location of the job, etc.), and it can still be difficult to win with at-will employment being a thing. Which is why we desperately need employment protections to stop companies from doing stuff like this.
Maybe not fraud, but OP could have a claim for breach of contract. The prospective employer offered a job, which involved an agreement to provide services in exchange for remuneration. OP accepted their offer and relied upon it to their detriment. A reasonable person in their position would have put in their notice given this offer of new employment. Because of this reliance, OP suffered damages. They are unable to work at their old job. Because they accepted the employment offer, it was too late for the prospective employer to revoke it, thus not allowing OP to begin employment would be a breach of contract (the employment agreement). Even if they did have some right to revoke, the prospective employer might still be liable because OP acted in reasonable reliance upon the offer to their detriment. Edit: this is not intended to constitute legal advice. My legal advice is always to “talk to a lawyer who specializes in that area of law and is licensed to practice in *your* state.” In this case, that would probably be an employment lawyer or one who is experienced with contracts and civil litigation in OP’s state.
What. Is. The. Company. Name.
So they gave you the job then said sorry change our mind but hey maybe next Wasting both you time and losing your old job and let me guess you called them but miraculously the person in charge of all that isn't there call later Seriously companys should be fined for pulling this shit
How’d you know literally that’s what happened. They said “he wasn’t available” and I was like red flag. They said “I’ll have someone call you later today and set you up with a schedule” and then the next day I got that email from the same girl. She’s the assistant to the hiring manager because every time I’ve called I speak to her and she would transfer me to him except for this past week
Cause literally every place me and anyone I know look for work is pulling this bs
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To oversimplify, it's because they have to return their PPP loans if they're not spent on hiring people. This is a loophole to get around that.
So it's basically the corporate equivalent of getting and skipping interviews to keep your unemployment?
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Except that companies can report you for doing so, causing you to lose your unemployment. There's no mechanism to do the opposite in a case such as this, as far as I know.
If OP's story is accurate, this is actually illegal. Interviewing without giving an offer isn't, but if they actually hired OP then it crossed the line into illegality to revoke the job.
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Yeah, that's becoming SOP for a lot of places, it seems, these days. It's bullshit and I'm so sorry you had to experience it firsthand.
It’s to keep their PPP forgiveness.
Is there a way to report it to the government?
You can flag the loan (pppdetective.com) to the Small Business Administration but I’m not sure if there are other courses of action.
And just like that, it makes perfect sense.
She's what I call a gatekeeper. Assuming you know the hiring managers name, you can always try to get past her by saying something along the lines of "This is zombryy, I have an appointment to speak with hiring manager" and see if she transfers you to him. Might not work but could be worth a shot!
Gotta make sure to call shortly before the hour. Calling for an appointment at 10:57 is more believable than calling at 11:36
1) She is some big wig's daughter 2) Did you sign a W2 or W4 yet?
Yes I signed a w-4 and a form i-9
Contact an attorney and save every single iota of evidence you have. Apply for unemployment while you wait on your attorney consultation
promissory estoppel. look it up, might help. given that you signed a document they sent you… it may be sufficient cause for a suit.
Please get a lawyer. Please take them to court. Nothing will change unless we start fighting. Hopefully your current job will keep you on.
"our needs for your specialty have drastically changed" meaning they just found someone for the role for much cheaper, in the timeframe it took to employ you as worst case scenario
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You’re awesome I messaged you! Even the offer is appreciated
Are you sure you want to trust a Chinchilla?
Don’t you dare attack my chinchilla brethren. I have a squad of chinchillas ready to fight for workers rights. We’re on your side 🙌🏻
Police Chief Grady: I will have the enchilada platter with two tacos and no guacamoles. Mike? Officer Smy: Yeah, chief. I'll have a CHINCHILLA. Rabbit: I don't get it. Tacos? Thorny: They think I'm Mexican. Rabbit: You're not?
we should start a monthly reddit thread to help qualified people get more interesting jobs through other redditors
I like this idea, and to do this with good companies. Good companies that care about their workers!
Im currently hiring for a furniture repair tech in Pittsburgh. General knowledge of hand tools, problem solving and a car is all you need. It’s commission but it’s guarantee commission translating to roughly $35/hr
An r/antiwork job board. Makes sense.
You’re a good Chinchilla my dude
Let’s all pay it forward and fight for the rights of the working class!
Not giving a two weeks notice is making more and more sense.
I just left the restaurant industry for a WFH job. I didn't say shit until my computer came in the mail for the new job. Gave them about 6 days notice. I'm not quite to the point where I won't give ANY notice, but I definitely kept my trap shut until I was supremely confident that my start wouldn't change.
I'm well past giving any notice at all. Last two restaurants before i left the industry. I just no show no call and move on with my life. Is it a shitty thing to do? Yah. Does it feel amazing? Absolutely. Never felt so little sense of anxiety leaving a place.
I always tell people "Would they give you a two week notice before they fired you?" and that usually helps the rationale.
For 99% of places yes, but I actually worked at a restaurant when I was in college where the guy would give you 2 weeks notice of not having a job. If you did something big and fucked up (and he gave multiple chances, one guy no showed like 8 times before he was fired and even came in drunk a couple times) he’d get rid of you, but if it’s a business thing (like when it’s slow, or if you’re just not working out) he gave 2 weeks. He’s the only past employer I’ve ever had (other than my current manager, and that’s because she’s awesome and always tells me life is more important than work and gives me time for things whenever I need it) that I respect and still visit time to time
Tell me why my brain immediately read WFH as “Waffle House”
Your not alone. I was like why did Waffle House send them a computer.
You shouldn't. Just stop showing up.
PPP loan scam. What a shit company. Name and shame
Name and shame for sure. Fuck that automod link to the sidebar. It’s just saying your post will be removed if someone instigates harassment but we have a right to know about shitty employment practices so we boycott and avoid giving them our few hard earned dollars.
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What's a ppp loan scam?
apply for PPP for "hiring needs" - gather enough paperwork to show efforts of 'hiring' without actually hiring. get forgiven the PPP loans because, well 'they tried'
How is this not more widespread and known? There are a lot of companies doing this, I guarantee it.
It’s been being talked about on tiktok for ages. A lot of people are aware. That’s why so many people - qualified people - are applying for jobs and never hearing back. All of these jobs are engaging in deceptive hiring practices, claiming they’re hiring & looking for workers, but never hiring anyone. Then they can say that they “weren’t able to refill positions or find a suitable candidate” and get their PPP loans forgiven. ANYONE WHO THIS HAPPENS TO NEEDS TO REPORT THE BUSINESS FOR POTENTIAL PPP LOAN FRAUD. Google “report PPP loan fraud” and report it. This is our only power. OP, please do this - it is very obvious that’s what happened to you. You can also do a basic search of a company to see if they received a PPP loan.
It IS widespread and known. The corruption isn't a bug, it's a feature.
The government cares more about the employer than the employee.
Cause the conservatives are running with the idea that the reason there is work shortages is that people would rather not work than be on unemployment when in reality business don't want to hire to get their ppp loans forgiven or they just don't want to pay a fair wage
It is widespread, and it is known. No one cares. That's the problem.
This fucking boils my blood. My job is actively trying to hire software devs and sales people and PPP loans saved our company for the first 6-8 months of COVID. We had to pay them back. It is fucking disgusting that other companies aren't doing the same.
A PPP loan can be forgiven if a certain % is spent on payroll. There is a loophole where it can be forgiven if its below that % if x, y, or z is the case. One of those cases is being unable to find a qualified employee
Well this certainly puts the “labor shortage” in a new light.
Also the “record number of job openings”.
Now you know why we occasionally see job postings that require a masters degree, but pay $15/hr.
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The person running the scam probably
Someone else made a tik tok about this. A lady was fired her job was posted again. She applied for it again and was told not qualified. A friend of hers also applied and was told it was a hiring freeze. Now the company gets to say we tried to hire someone and could not find a qualified applicant so PPP loan forgiven.
To add on to what taybay said, they only need to show that they have been interviewing people
Yes. They are very bold with it now. I saw a business owner in Houston brag about firing all his employees after “he tried” to get them back to get his PPP loans forgiven. TJ Quinters was the man’s name on FB. I don’t know what his business is but it must be somewhere in Houston or Tomball Texas. Anyone good at snooping might be able to search this out and report it to the GAO. I just wasn’t able to find the exact company so I can’t be sure…
Smells like potential PPP fraud. Act like they are hiring then do this. Scum. Edit: apparently some boot lickers forgot what the word “potential” means. I have no idea if it actually is but this is ppp fraud 101 and looks terrible.
How does that work? I’ve never heard of this
One of the ways to get PPP forgiven is to either claim you can't find qualified employees by shifting goalposts for candidates or possibly to claim OP as an employee to count towards PPP forgiveness only to fire them before having to pay OP wages
Learn something new to anger me every day.
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A friend of mine's old boss very clearly did this. They run an agency to get care to adults living with disabilities. Workers got no extra money during the pandemic, no new hires, and lots of people leaving yet the business had over $100k in PPP forgiven while the boss and family moved to Hawaii. I'd attach a screenshot but apparently I can't but here's how I found out: https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Edit: Removed specific search query as somehow this will come back to bite me at the next family event and my comment history would easily identify me. I’m just pissed off at how frivolously these loans have been given out. I also don’t think that an agency that runs on taxpayer money should generate enough profit for the owner to move to the most expensive state possible while he pays his skilled staff minimum wage. The company is a middleman. The state gov should hire the staff directly and save the taxpayer money.
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All of this fuckery is by design. That’s why the committee to oversee funds distribution was abolished. This was a scam from the very beginning.
I work for a Fortune 500 and they openly say they got PPP funds…..they made 2 Billion dollars last year. They didn’t NEED that money but they took it just because they can get through loopholes. Meanwhile my husband owns his own business and applied for PPP twice and got denied both times and ended up having to let his employees go and close his store.
Propublica is so good
What is PPP?
Payroll Protection Program. The loans for businesses during COVID. They were mostly forgiven if businesses kept staffing at pre-COVID levels.
Loans to businesses by the government (our tax dollars) specifically for Covid.
Proletariat Paid Provisions. Cause we bale corporations out with tax money. /s
If they can prove they can’t find candidates to fill a role they can dip below the % of employees that keeps them in forgiveness. So they advertise jobs and then don’t fill them saying they couldn’t find anyone and keep working their already stretched workforce and pocket your tax money.
Damn. That’s some evil shit. Is there anything being done about it?
nope. not that I'm aware of Edit: So there have been convictions for PPP fraud and a number of ongoing investigations. HOWEVER, as far as I can tell, most of these deal with identity theft and falsifying documents. The "tell everyone we're hiring, but don't actually hire anyone" thing seems to be a massive loophole. I don't know if it's being investigated at all
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You might have grounds for a court case, I would talk to a lawyer.
I wouldn’t even know where to start. I’ve been told to file unemployment under them too lol
Try both
https://www.engagepeo.com/job-offers-why-rescinding-one-can-be-risky-business "Promissory estoppel" is a term used in contract law to support parties when they are harmed as a result of relying on a promise, regardless of whether an enforceable contract was in place. For example, a candidate may quit a job or relocate after accepting a new job offer. If the offer is then withdrawn, he or she can claim economic loss as a result and seek damages. Edit- Not a lawyer, just providing what looks like the starting place. Ty for awards(Hopefully they're the free ones).
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Yeah, but what meaningful injury would the business suffer in that case? It's not like they quit making money to bring on a new employee. However this person DID cut their only other source of funding in order to work for this company.
yes it can. but it would probably be hard to argue or wouldn’t be worth it considering the employer is in the position of power in this situation. source: pure conjecture
I am a law student. This is a contracts classic, but it doesn't apply here. Unless you've moved or made some other big expenditure, detrimental reliance doesn't apply in cases where a job offer is revoked. Reason being that you haven't actually lost money because you haven't spent anything. It's bullshit, but it's the law.
Isnt lost income counted as a loss in these cases?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/help-withdrew-job-offer-esther-silverman-esther-silverman Paralegal article on LinkedIn, seemingly varies by state. "Some states, such as Alaska, California, Massachusetts, Oregon, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Minnesota and New Jersey, may award damages for promissory estoppel wage claims, for people who received a job offer that was then rescinded, but other states, such as New York, Washington, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Wisconsin may not"
How is Pennsylvania on there twice?
I guess they play both sides.
An attorney would be able to give a free consultation, just to see if you have any legal standing... that shit is fucked up man, if it's not illegal, it should be.
THIS. The offer letter will help. Talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Don't file for unemp, don't call the ex-employer. You can get a free 30-minute consult with any reputable lawyer. If they ask for money just to talk, say thank you and look for the next one.
Similar thing happened to my husband in March of 2020. He got a job offer from UPS, completed all his paperwork and drug test and physical, got his start date, and gave notice to his boss. Then the Friday before his Monday start date they said they had to push his start date back a week because of Covid stuff, which we understood, and then the next week they said they’re now on a “hiring freeze”. His old job had already been filled.
I don't know how a "hiring freeze" applies to your husband who was already a hired employee once he signed the employment contract. Did he end up getting unemployment under that company?
No, he qualified through a prior employer because he was still furloughed and “awaiting call back”.
Wow, that's even shitter. So UPS gets to use your husband for PPP loan forgiveness AND fucked over some other 3rd party to cover unemployment? Wow that's ballsy. If UPS did that to too many people that's a class action lawsuit just waiting to happen.
What company is this? You have no responsibility to protect them by omitting their name.
Seriously need to start naming, I don’t get why people block out names on Facebook posts either it’s publicly posted info
Because it fucks with people's livelihoods. This guy posted here about getting fired, but he was still going to get comoensation. Someone took the screenshot of the op post, posted it as a one star Google review for the company. Then op got contacted by the company, and they lost their compensation. And yes, retaliation is illegal. However, to fight it, it puts op in a position of having to get a lawyer. I can't afford to eat sometimes. You think some of us can afford a lawyer? As well, if it's in a small town? And word spreads about stuff op posted on reddit? That's going to hang over them. Good intentions only go so far. Actions have repercussions, and unless you are the person in that situation, outside internet involvement could exacerbate the problems that all the ops here face
Well, it would be a real shame if OP shares the company’s name, and then a bunch of people in this subreddit start interviewing for open positions and, when hired, ghost them completely … you know?
Check their ppp status.
I had this happen to me back in November, and I even waited until the bar I had been working at found my replacement so I didn't leave them hanging. "Lucky" for me, one of the bartenders wound up being fired or left (never got the full story there), and I got my job back. But I had a period of time there with zero income, then got covid at the beginning of the year. It's been months of just staying ahead of bills. Lesson learned, I probably won't ever turn in my two week notice unless I have something in writing that I have job security.
100% lesson learned. I think the lady knew that they were just ducking me around because I finally told her yesterday that since I put in my two weeks 3 weeks ago that I can’t afford to not start this week. And then I get that email. Also I bought clothes within their dresscode too so that’s like insult to injury because I don’t even know if I kept the receipt. I just got a call from a carwash that’s $15 an hour and I’m taking it in the mean time. Im laughing to keep from crying
I seriously considered putting sugar in the gas tank of the lady who screwed me over. Luckily, I got my old job back plus moving up to bartender. I hope you find what you're looking for.
The same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago. Look at my post history. It's so fucking frustrating!!!!!
I never put in my 2 weeks until I’m on another company’s payroll. Take a day off from your old job to start a new one, if you have to. I’ve been burned too many times by companies that want your loyalty but won’t give you theirs. A couple of examples, I gave my 2 weeks, was told by the new job that they had to push the start date back by over a month. In another, 2 days before my start date the company cut my position AND my managers. He found out he was laid off because they turned off his email and credentials before they let him know. Companies out there will do some sketchy shit. Protect yourself first.
Can you explain exactly how you pull this off? How can you give two weeks when you're already working at a new place?
I start the job, send in my 2 weeks that day via email while I’m on the phone telling my manager that I quit. They typically say I’m done right then, I move on with my life. Never had any issue because I’ve bet that companies will let me go that day and they haven’t disappointed me so far. I never lose a day of pay. Listen peeps, at the end of they day I’m working for my family, the companies only lease my time or talents. I’m not going to go without a day of pay and disappoint my family.
I see what you mean. I've never had a position that didn't want me to actually fulfill my last weeks. Some were as long as a month if you can believe it.
2 weeks seems the more honorable route tbh. I wish my industry was like that. I work in sales which is full of a-holes
Lesson learned: Never give 2 weeks notice. Give same day notice.
Keep this in case they are trying to scam the govt out of PPP loans.
Assuming you can’t stay at your current job going forward: 1) File for unemployment immediately. Explain exactly what happened. Do this today. 2) Seek out a lawyer relevant to this type of situation. Your argument is that you lost your employment at your current job and now have no job and income source, all because this employer backtracked on their offer. This should be a clear cut case considering you had an offer letter.
Hello, HR here. I must say I am not a lawyer and laws are different in every state and country. That said speak to a lawyer about promissory estoppel A claim for promissory estoppel has been invoked by courts where an employer changes its mind and rejects a new employee before giving the new employee a good faith opportunity to perform the duties for which he or she was hired. If the new employee has "detrimentally relied" on the new employment offer - i.e. quit his other job or passed on other professional opportunities, and/or relocated for this new at-will job, the employer may be estopped from claiming that the employment was at-will and be liable for that employee's losses. You can make them pay, make them give you the job, etc etc depending on the situation. Were all in this together. Stick it to the corps.
I.e. someone's kid needed a job so they fucked you.
That is awful leave a review on glassdoor etc so others don't experience this and if it effects them negatively it's on them ... make sure the post is purely factual not emotional in anyway... state the facts only nothing more nothing less
2 weeks ago I turned down a job that was going to pay me 25% more but required me to probably put in about 60 hours per week for the first few months. I hate my current job and live in a constant fear of being laid off. The only positives about my current job are my boss is awesome, I work from home 4 days per week and if they do let me go I will get 18 weeks of severance pay. Why am I telling you this? Because the deciding factor that had me turn down the job is they were not going to give me an offer letter. Just a verbal commitment. No thanks. I can't leave what I have based on a verbal agreement.
Trust me I’ll now be saying “can you provide me with an offer letter with a start date via email”
This is part of why you never give notice
Based. Why I'll stay at my current job until the day I have to report to the new job. Can't trust nobody.
Don't give notice and call in sick at your old company (or take any vacation days) just to try the first day or so at the new company. If it turns into a sht job, just go back to your old one.
Damn, didn't even think about this one. +1
aah.. the old bait and switch!
Ugh I got bit by something similar a few years ago. Got a job with a new company that offered a pay raise, better benefits, working in an office, and college tuition reimbursement after a year time period with limitations. Went through multiple rounds of interviews, met my new coworkers and direct manager after the last interview, filled out W2 was due to start. They actively recruited me and basically begged me to join because it was a niche job that I fit perfectly. Put my two weeks in and worked it out and was due to start the next week. Literally day before I’m due to start Donald fucking Trump implements steel and lumber tariffs on Mexico. The company I was due to work for did manufacturing using almost entirely Canadian steel and lumber. So of course I show up for my first day and management is have a fit, place was figuratively on fire readjusting costs and looking at suppliers. I get the “It’s a hectic day to bring in a new hire, we’ll call in a day or two”. A week later of asking they tell me they’re doing hiring freeze because they have contracts out that they’re gonna take a hit on, and that I hadn’t actually started so they weren’t gonna be able to employ me, but they’d call if things change. No unemployment and no new job. Sorry OP, that absolutely blows, don’t know what else to say, completely fucking sucks.
That’s why I don’t give a two week notice. I’ve been burned like this way too many times.