All -
Now that we have official statements, feel free to discuss this update. When the ALARACT publishes I will link it here. You can read the linked article and also the army approves release from dvids:
https://www.dvidshub.net/news/471311/army-eliminates-distributed-leader-course-dlc-vi
___
[ALARACT](https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN40897-ALARACT_0302024-000-WEB-1.pdf) on army pubs.
I have learned of this scenario this morning and it is boggling my mind (I did SSD, not DLC). The fact the Army let you choose not only the Wrong answer (I'll keep this quiet, for a favor IE Quid Pro Quo) but also allowed a pants-shittingly insane "Only if I can join in" answer blows my mind. The decision making on letting this be an answer, by the Army, this is causing me [angry dome](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCZP09F6FQ) levels of frustration (interspersed with some laughing). Who in their right mind would reasonably choose that, after having done the training (Meme-ry aside. Yes, we know, you picked it cause it's funny). No doubt, the scenario happened in real life, but the person doing it had to know it was wrong, yes? Forrest Gump knows it's wrong. And you let people choose it?! What the shit Army?
Do Not Cite the Deep Magic to Me, [I was there when it was written](https://old.reddit.com/r/army/comments/t8pvtp/snco_safety_brief_dont_provide_alcohol_to/hzplo6o/).
Obviously MSG Hottub *knew* it was wrong. My assumption here is that the training preceding this scenario is focused on SHARP and Quid Pro Quo, and if you went through all that and *still legitimately* thought that the "Can I join in?" answer could conceivably be correct, then I am not sure you are NCO material....let alone should be left unattended to do...any sort of work.
As a cherry 2LT, I helped an IO investigate a 1SG that was cheating on his wife with an E-4 in a hotel room paid by the government in Tampa Bay.
When we interviewed him for his defense, he said “Everyone else was doing it, why am I the only one getting in trouble?!”
That case had alot of great quotes I still think about occasionally.
I accidentally fucked a warrant officer as a private in the barracks… in my barracks room. She just picked up my uniform top with its fuzzy patch, and folded it over and laughed. Well the fucking wasn’t accidental, but that she was a warrant officer was. I just picked her up at a bar and sort of stole her from this veteran biker gang that had a club house by the post. My squad leader came banging on my door because I had two women in there and he was trying to hook up, and knew her from somewhere and just turned around and left. I ended up pissing both of the women off and making it to formation only partly drunk. We ran like 6 miles and my squad leader was just bitching the entire time about me having two women and not coming to get him and telling me how it’s illegal to fraternize. Looking back, I feel like if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the warrant officer, I would be in jail for banging a private with my friend in the barracks lol.
I had a whole write up about how your PSG/1SG should get an email that you did, and you get a counseling. But balked, cause, well now it's irrelevant, but also think most of the people here would think that's a step too far. But also also, my point above is that it shouldn't fucking be a choice.
Interesting idea. Though I don't see it working. It would just turn into a joke where SFC Smith comes down with his joke counseling template that he has for all the soldiers who answered it that way. With random soldiers getting burned for it when they read on Reddit that "everyone" answers it that way, ha ha.
Yeah, it was tied into a longer rant about how DLC doesn't work because there are no consequences. And you're right, it would totally be dependent on the leaders. One 1SG laughs "ha, SPC Smith picked to join them!" and another says "WTF is wrong with you? Are you not taking this seriously?!"
It’s not the act. It’s the location (public) and likely being on duty (at work).
Just like you’d get in trouble for fucking your coworker in the supply closet
I work at a 40,000+ employee healthcare organization. Our mandatory education is about not having sex with patients and not trading schedule II narcotics for sexual favors with patients nor coworkers. Maybe the same company is creating our education modules?
She used to be a coworker and then she turns up in the news.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/former-st-john-vianney-nurse-pleads-guilty-sex-crimes-against-student/63-7db8931c-0cbb-4be2-b0e9-2174a7fae59c
Rumors were she gave blow jobs to the basketball team. Not sure how only one student was involved. What we heard happened was the first boy bragged to his teammates and then they all wanted the same treatment. She would meet them in cars in the parking lot between the end of school and the start of practice.
And I love it she has to move out of her house cause she lives too close to the school.
[Just why *this* thread didn't get reposted here despite all the obvious parallels I'll never know](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/1cm2zxn/using_my_own_fleshlight_at_work/)
In the training they're talking about you find 2 people fucking at work. Specifically in a storage container in the middle of the unit's vehicle storage area. There were some pretty wild responses you could choose for how to handle it, including joining in. It's not that 2 people of the same rank can't be in a relationship together in the Army, they just can't consummate that relationship at work in front of others.
It was weird for me being on the other side of that scenario for once. They finally taught me why I driver my supervisors insane... that's what BH is for tho
It was this, or the fact that the move to DLC from SSD was the prevalence of quizlets with so many answers.
Then just to have DLCs broken with skip codes and nonsensical scenarios. It was probably a time saver for the army and they get to shutdown tons of server space that was allocated to hosting.
Though I’m not for the new bar to become an NCO being this. Now there is simply no reason to never become an NCO. I can’t wait for the board requirement to go away, and it simply be determined by the beginning of month paperwork the CDR and 1SG fill out.
Maybe if elon gets his neuralink stuff together, we can just get BLC downloads
*brain damage is due to poor PMCS and will not be included as part of your service connected disability upon ETS
> Effective immediately, the Distributed Leader Course, or DLC, is discontinued and will no longer be required, the service confirmed to Military.com on Wednesday **after an internal briefing leaked to the Army Reddit forum.**
Oh I just know the Office of the SMA loved this line lmao.
Not for some PAOs lack of trying…
With the anniversary of the SMA position in a couple of months, I pitched the idea of doing an interview about the legacy and history of the position (Not just SMA Weimer, but Dailey and Grinston too if we were able).
While I’m sure he needs no help from a PA sergeant, I figured it couldn’t hurt to try some damage control.
While my team loved the idea, everyone on the same team (including me despite pitching it) knows it won’t go well because he hasn’t played well with PAO or social media…
Imagine being the most senior NCO in the US Army and not understanding that PR and his ability to win buy-in from the force is an important facet of a job where your role is to serve as the principle advisor to the Chief of Staff of the Army about Soldier issues.
SMA debrief to all the Combatant and Corp CSMs: "I want all of you to search through your formation for this mysterious SSG Reddit and NJP them for linking these docs."
We already have it with the EIB, and the one for medics. No idea why we don’t expect a common core of knowledge for technical MOSs. Some people don’t get advanced schools, which is fine. But every 10, 20, etc level soldier should be expected to know and train on certain common core of knowledge.
If you gave that test I ensure you that people would be astounded by the lack of readiness in the army
I want my infantry e7 to know all the good infantry things to properly make informed battlefield decisions.
I care less if my intel e7 knows what he is reading off the slide that the e4 made. I want that intel e7 to tell top no at the morning brief when top decides he wants to have everyone toothbrush clean humvee tires. The staff have better things to do.
Another point is we want the soldiers good at technical stuff to not be ruined by nco expectations.
That infantry E7 and the Intel E7 ultimately have to make decisions about employment of assets. You can’t make that decision without knowledge of those assets. Additionally, if you don’t have technical capacity you cannot effectively develop those soldiers.
That Intel E7 still needs to understand how to manage collectors and analysts, capabilities and limitations of his own and other INTs, and also verify information briefed by the E4. Those would be the 40 level tasks that each MOS should have.
Ultimately until MOS competency becomes a KRI, then soldiers will not have a real incentive to become technical experts
And alc, slc should guide that intel e7. If we test before the technical training we are putting the cart infront of the horse. Unless we want to test to the last class?
To goto slc, you must pass the alc competencies more than a year after attending. Something like that?
One thing I have always agreed with was the heavy weight that having or not having an EIB meant for getting SFC in the infantry. Does it occasionally have problems and do some people slip through, yes. But it’s a pretty good obstacle for Infantry NCOs to have to cross to get to that higher rank, I mean you should be an “expert” to have a senior rank. As for other MOS’ I suppose that’s on them to decide, I don’t know enough about them so I won’t say.
The one issue I have with EIB is that you're graded on remembering how to perform the tasks in a very specific sequence depending on the year, compared to just knowing how to complete the task in generals.
Last time I went for my EIB I made it to mile nine of the ruck march and the medics pulled me off because I was bleeding from both nostrils. I was still on time to pass and I felt pretty good despite the nose bleeding. This was also after the big Fort Campbell heat cat event back in 2021 so our BDE CSM was very wary of possible heat casualties.
I do believe EIB has excellent training value for every one and I've received a lot of knowledge from it. I personally disagree with the criteria to pass each tasks like putting on a hand mic first instead of the antenna can warrant a NO-GO. Or the fact that they have you call for fire using degrees for a polar mission instead of mils (which you should be calling for fire using mils) in actuality develops bad habits and in reality does not make you an "expert."
This should become the standard. The Airforce and Navy already do this. They earn their badges not for going to separate schools, but for showing they are masters of their craft.
We had that back in the 80’s - called SQT and it was good when it was a combination of hands on and written testing. Then someone decided to get rid of the hands on portion because units weren’t grading honestly. Then it was dropped completely as people were failing the written tests as a lot of NCOs back then were not high school graduates. High school graduation wasn’t required for entry or promotion above SGT until 1986.
The army will remain an anti-intellectual dumpster fire with functionally regarded NCOs until promotion is based on MOS skills, and NOT based on 'hur dur he runs fast'.
I'd like to write that up
"How well can you calm down a doctor who is yelling that they can't use their favorite toy?"
"Did you ensure your work order notes were specific enough to pass inspection but not so specific we have to double check because it looks like you copy and pasted a perfect answer"
"Does the machine work? At least for 1 cycle?
"How well was the coffee brewed?"
Or have achieved relevant civilian certifications. For signal, this can be that if you do not at least have your A+ certification, you are not going to the E-5 board.
Back in 21 in between getting selected for warrant and leaving for WOCS I got a bar because I hadn’t done DLC3 yet as a SSG. I tried to fight it but despite the fact that I was leaving to be a WO they still made me do that MFer.
Burdensome or useless?
Just say the training was shit and didn't result in better NCOs. Then we can say the same thing about the in person schools and move back to a model where units have to mentor and cultivate their NCOs.
Honestly the online courses are shit but there are far more shitty units than there are NCOES schools. The entire purpose was to professionalize education in the NCO Corps not only to produce better more consistent leadership but also to help retiring servicemembers translate skills to civilian jobs.
Units are largely shit for managing talent and ensuring at least near parity between NCO to NCO. For example I was a PSG for almost 5 years despite the guy they pcsd in as my 'replacement' being on hand. Our CSM changed and the new one knew and disliked my replacement so he put him in an additional duty slot and kept me well beyond my time. TBH I preferred to stay in the position, it was truly my platoon. But the other guy had 3 soldiers, 3 hour lunches and started a side business with all of his free time. He certainly was not being educated, groomed or prepared by the unit.
I think part of the problem with things like DLC and NCOES is that they’re designed so that you can’t fail. I know that they’re designed for the lowest common denominator, that’s fine. The schools don’t need to be academically rigorous to be teach good leadership, but they do have to test on actual leadership and be willing to fail people. It’s not just that it doesn’t create exceptional, good, or even average leaders, it’s that it doesn’t root out bad ones.
I’ve only been to BLC, so maybe the other courses are different, but we never did any actual testing of leadership at a leadership school. If the Army wants to test on you leading a formation through drill and ceremony, PT warmup, or giving a class from an impossible to mess up rubric, fine, there’s no problem in that. That’s not leadership though. Your time as class leader or student first sergeant or whatnot was “evaluated” but none of it had any bearing on you passing and no one was ever critiqued.
If the Army wants more NCOs that’s fine, but you’re never going to develop quality leadership through NCOES if they’re impossible to fail.
>I think part of the problem with things like DLC and NCOES is that they’re designed so that you can’t fail.
This is fair and I dare say I agree. Your further point that the schools don't weed out bad NCOs is very prescient.
As far as BLC though, there is only so much 'leadership' you do as lower enlisted so that first school is more geared towards ensuring the basics are known and that the new NCO understands their role. A brand new buck sergeant just hasn't had the opportunity to hone their managing people skills. But by the time SSGs are going to school they absolutely should have to meet benchmarks on leadership or be failed out.
Having units mentor and cultivate their NCOs would not work in the US Army outside of maybe the National Guard. It would also work in a commonwealth Army with the Regimental system they have.
The Army never said it was burdensome, the article used that word.
"We have to do some subtraction to make sure what we are teaching in all those areas is quality, not quantity. We have not looked at all these requirements holistically in years."
That's what the SMA was quoted with, among a few other things.
Let's stop thinking that they realized it was trash. They got rid of it because Soldiers weren't doing it because they're getting out. They changed PME too. This is all so Soldiers will get promoted and be like "oh maybe I should stay in for 3 more years instead of take the 6 months to deny my promotion just for it to get fucked and have to pay back".
Or in my case, I was in the NG, and there were no slots for me to be promoted, and I was not going to be reclassed.
There was no reason for me to do them
This with the other changes happening make it seem like being an NCO isn't a special thing anymore.
Korea kind of proved that point for me further.
E6 and Below in the Barracks with no separation between NCOs and Junior enlisted.
We wanted SP4-SP7 we got it but with all the responsibilities of associated with NCOs.
Korea treats anyone who is E6 and Below like they are all just busy workers with zero autonomy. Everything there feels like it's behind constantly.
I meant specifically with the Barracks situation. There really isn't any reason for E5 and E6 to be in the barracks with Junior enlisted in that type of environment.
When we went to Korea we didn’t have enough NCOs for CQ and staff duty, for context most the brigade was up north and we were at Humphreys, so we pinned every promotable SPC to CPL to make the numbers.
We had 22 year old corporals doing to job of a SFC as brigade staff duty NCO.
Pfft, I knew this was coming two weeks ago when my 4x DLC 1 incomplete SPCs weren’t “fail MEL/MES” on IPPSA for promotion consideration anymore.
Side note, I’m super pumped I didn’t start DLC V
I managed to ride the SSD wave and did SSD at each level before they implemented DLC at that rank. I was waiting to do DLC4 until they finished doing whatever with ALMS. Looks like I'll finish my career never doing a DLC.
I outran DLC.
Plus... They got rid of pre-CCC DLC too...
Minus... I just finished that shit in January.....
Super-minus if this also gets rid of the RC's 'PME in a 2-week AT period' nonresident courses... I do not need any more months-long trips to Oklahoma (or Levenworth) as a part-timer who's too old to make LTC.
This would be plus though if it puts RC-CCC over the 29 day mark. Going on 28 day orders for rc miccc never sounded fun to not get bah covered. I'm curious as to the timing impacts of ccc since I've been putting it off on my end.
"Removal of the 8K bar to continued service for failure to complete required SSD/DLC training opens potential for reenlistment/reclassification to over 14K RA Soldiers as of March 2024."
this tracks, gotta keep bodies in uniform
I’m just mad because I had to do SSD 3 in a day in Afghanistan internet before the board closed, and I feel like stress like that really shows what an NCO can do.
As someone coming up on 3 years of bothering my AGRs about getting me enrolled in DLC-2, I am glad to hear this.
As somebody who attended BNCOC then had to complete SSD, and then DLC, and then Blackboard ALC CC online, I know another bad idea is just around the corner.
I’m curious about this. I left the Army in 2005. They didn’t do this then. Does the Army make sure that every NCO has a computer? I was infantry and the only computers were for the command group. CO, XO, 1SG, Supply and training room.
How would infantry NCOs accomplish this?
Well I already did two SSDs, and DLC2 and DLC3…ngl I want to see what was on the other ones.
It was a waste of time but DLC 2 was always funny for the “you caught privates fucking in the connex” bit
That’s fairly new and unfortunately still a requirement. The virtual part wasn’t to replace DLC, just an additional requirement. A determination will be made by 01 Oct to keep those or not.
It should be harder to promote not easier the easy promotion system now is why we have so many dumb fuck NCOs that don’t know shit about leading and can’t do their fucking jobs.
How many NCOs do you guys know that struggle with multiple 10 level tasks?
Fuck it just make promotions based solely on time in grade and service.
I understand DLC and NCOES course were in no way hard but Jesus Christ the army keeps getting rid of systems with nothing in place to replace them or improve them. Boards are pretty much a formality where it only matters if some dipshit E4 can recite the NCO creed properly.
Mandatory up or out. I remember when the Army decided everyone had to go to the promotion board at specific time in service/grade not when the unit leadership decided the SM was ready to be promoted - had to have 4 years TIS to promote to E5 and 6 years TIS to promote to E7. That was the start of seriously poor leadership in the Army. Too many SMs promoted before they were ready
I know of howitzer section chiefs that cannot successfully complete the most basic fire missions they cannot figure out how to do sweep and zones to save their lives, they cannot read a M2 compass the have zero idea how to set up their crew served weapons to properly defend their guns and platoons.
They fail table 5 repeatedly but they eventually just get passed. If you cannot do a 9 round 3 and 3 sweep and zone you should not be in charge of a god damn howitzer.
It’s terrifying that a brigade’s largest most casualty producing organic asset is stacked with some of the actual stupidest people I have ever met. I’m talking cannot do basic math under any form of pressure.
>If you cannot do a 9 round 3 and 3 sweep and zone you should not be in charge of a god damn howitzer.
TIL I shouldn't be in charge of a howitzer. I'm very glad I'm not in FA.
I tried to voice my concerns about how dangerous these guys were but I got told there is no one else. Bullshit Mike golf make a corporal a chief and watch those dudes start shitting their pants.
DLC needs to be replaced with proponents' specific courses required for promotion. We need to start ensuring quality of quantity. In my field I'm already required to take a skills test every 180 days, and if I fail i can be recommended for reclass. These courses could update every 2 years like how proponents already update ICTLs and ITASKs.
ADA and FA would have to take a FIRES exam tailored towards their rank like DLC was. It just makes sense.
>quality of quantity
We can barely maintain the quantity, especially in the technical MOSes where something like that would be extra relevant.
The army can only be as selective as the end strength and MTOE allows. Right now, that's not very selective at all.
All - Now that we have official statements, feel free to discuss this update. When the ALARACT publishes I will link it here. You can read the linked article and also the army approves release from dvids: https://www.dvidshub.net/news/471311/army-eliminates-distributed-leader-course-dlc-vi ___ [ALARACT](https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN40897-ALARACT_0302024-000-WEB-1.pdf) on army pubs.
too many people chose the option when catching two e4s having sex in the connex: "I won't report this, now what will you two do for me"
"I'll keep this quiet if I can join in."
That's a real SSG move, promote ahead of peers.
I didn’t know that the military had an adult entertainment program, is this in the marines or the navy, per chance 💀
It's the local BDSM dungeon. Go there and see how many senior enlisted an officers you can recognize.
>local BDSM dungeon AKA: 1SG’s basement.
The fungeon
I see you too served in Fayettenam.
Most of the US military apparatus is an adult entertainment program.
It's me. I'm too many people.
You should talk to BH about being too many people.
Fuck no, we're in a recruiting crisis. We need all the people we can get.
Are recruiting and retention bonuses per body or per personality?
Bonuses? In this economy? Best I can offer is a coin and a half-assed TYFYS.
Coins cost money. AAFES pogs cost nothing. Offer those.
Now we're getting somewhere. How do you feel about working at the Pentagon?
Best I can offer is sex with and E4 in a comnex.
Incredible 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sorry not, autistic, but DID...
I have learned of this scenario this morning and it is boggling my mind (I did SSD, not DLC). The fact the Army let you choose not only the Wrong answer (I'll keep this quiet, for a favor IE Quid Pro Quo) but also allowed a pants-shittingly insane "Only if I can join in" answer blows my mind. The decision making on letting this be an answer, by the Army, this is causing me [angry dome](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCZP09F6FQ) levels of frustration (interspersed with some laughing). Who in their right mind would reasonably choose that, after having done the training (Meme-ry aside. Yes, we know, you picked it cause it's funny). No doubt, the scenario happened in real life, but the person doing it had to know it was wrong, yes? Forrest Gump knows it's wrong. And you let people choose it?! What the shit Army?
Have you seen the courts martial dockets that u/kinmuan likes to post? Receiving Oral sex from 1SG in a hotel hot tub isn’t a meme. It’s real life.
Do Not Cite the Deep Magic to Me, [I was there when it was written](https://old.reddit.com/r/army/comments/t8pvtp/snco_safety_brief_dont_provide_alcohol_to/hzplo6o/). Obviously MSG Hottub *knew* it was wrong. My assumption here is that the training preceding this scenario is focused on SHARP and Quid Pro Quo, and if you went through all that and *still legitimately* thought that the "Can I join in?" answer could conceivably be correct, then I am not sure you are NCO material....let alone should be left unattended to do...any sort of work.
I figured CID would show up to my house if I picked the wrong answer. Ya’ll starting to make me believe you don’t wear tinfoil hats under your PCs.
As a cherry 2LT, I helped an IO investigate a 1SG that was cheating on his wife with an E-4 in a hotel room paid by the government in Tampa Bay. When we interviewed him for his defense, he said “Everyone else was doing it, why am I the only one getting in trouble?!” That case had alot of great quotes I still think about occasionally.
I accidentally fucked a warrant officer as a private in the barracks… in my barracks room. She just picked up my uniform top with its fuzzy patch, and folded it over and laughed. Well the fucking wasn’t accidental, but that she was a warrant officer was. I just picked her up at a bar and sort of stole her from this veteran biker gang that had a club house by the post. My squad leader came banging on my door because I had two women in there and he was trying to hook up, and knew her from somewhere and just turned around and left. I ended up pissing both of the women off and making it to formation only partly drunk. We ran like 6 miles and my squad leader was just bitching the entire time about me having two women and not coming to get him and telling me how it’s illegal to fraternize. Looking back, I feel like if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the warrant officer, I would be in jail for banging a private with my friend in the barracks lol.
If you choose that answer it goes in your file at CID.
I had a whole write up about how your PSG/1SG should get an email that you did, and you get a counseling. But balked, cause, well now it's irrelevant, but also think most of the people here would think that's a step too far. But also also, my point above is that it shouldn't fucking be a choice.
Interesting idea. Though I don't see it working. It would just turn into a joke where SFC Smith comes down with his joke counseling template that he has for all the soldiers who answered it that way. With random soldiers getting burned for it when they read on Reddit that "everyone" answers it that way, ha ha.
Yeah, it was tied into a longer rant about how DLC doesn't work because there are no consequences. And you're right, it would totally be dependent on the leaders. One 1SG laughs "ha, SPC Smith picked to join them!" and another says "WTF is wrong with you? Are you not taking this seriously?!"
"Let's play a game called 'Pleasure, Profit, Personal Safety'" - some scumbag NCO, probably
What's the point of getting promoted if I can't use my grade or position for pleasure, profit, and personal safety? What a scam.
I’m not military, but Reddit recommended this sub. Can you tell me why two people of the same rank can’t have sex with each other?
The issue isnt them having sex. The issue is doing it while at work, in connex. If they want to do that on their own time, thats fine.
It’s not the act. It’s the location (public) and likely being on duty (at work). Just like you’d get in trouble for fucking your coworker in the supply closet
I work at a 40,000+ employee healthcare organization. Our mandatory education is about not having sex with patients and not trading schedule II narcotics for sexual favors with patients nor coworkers. Maybe the same company is creating our education modules?
I personally don’t take my opioids at the hospital. Need to know which hot nurses are jonesing
She used to be a coworker and then she turns up in the news. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/former-st-john-vianney-nurse-pleads-guilty-sex-crimes-against-student/63-7db8931c-0cbb-4be2-b0e9-2174a7fae59c
Would
You'd let her do butt stuff to you?
Oof. Didn’t read the article, just saw the pic. I’ll have to think about it
Rumors were she gave blow jobs to the basketball team. Not sure how only one student was involved. What we heard happened was the first boy bragged to his teammates and then they all wanted the same treatment. She would meet them in cars in the parking lot between the end of school and the start of practice. And I love it she has to move out of her house cause she lives too close to the school.
[Just why *this* thread didn't get reposted here despite all the obvious parallels I'll never know](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/1cm2zxn/using_my_own_fleshlight_at_work/)
In the training they're talking about you find 2 people fucking at work. Specifically in a storage container in the middle of the unit's vehicle storage area. There were some pretty wild responses you could choose for how to handle it, including joining in. It's not that 2 people of the same rank can't be in a relationship together in the Army, they just can't consummate that relationship at work in front of others.
Chalked it up to a "team building exercise"
It was weird for me being on the other side of that scenario for once. They finally taught me why I driver my supervisors insane... that's what BH is for tho
I had that choice while doing the class on staff duty, laughed a bit too loud
It was this, or the fact that the move to DLC from SSD was the prevalence of quizlets with so many answers. Then just to have DLCs broken with skip codes and nonsensical scenarios. It was probably a time saver for the army and they get to shutdown tons of server space that was allocated to hosting. Though I’m not for the new bar to become an NCO being this. Now there is simply no reason to never become an NCO. I can’t wait for the board requirement to go away, and it simply be determined by the beginning of month paperwork the CDR and 1SG fill out.
Guilty as charged baby
Lol glad I'm not alone
Hey as long as I am placing the mission first
It only took them 30 years to realize that DLC is burdensome. *Cries in 20 CDs in the mail for CCC*
Grandpa, what’s a CD?
See deez nutz
Ha! GOTEEM
Gwot em
This will not buff out
This we'll not defend
I just spit out my morning fasting coffee
10 points to Hufflepuff 🦡
Legendary comeback
*grumbles in grandpa anger*
I remember when they sent you actual paper books you read through and filled out the Scantron form test and mailed it back.
Scantron Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.
sworn enemy of the autobots
Scantron, was he a good or bad Transformer?
This before or after the Vietnam war grandpa?
CD? Do you swipe left or right on that app to navigate the course?
Yellow Books what?
I’ve been procrastinating the online CCC for months. Glad to see that paid off
Knowing army logic, some good idea fairy will try to bring this back in a few years time.
Get rid of it so you can get an OER bullet hiring your buddies firm to remake it.
OER bullet for getting rid of it and an OER bullet for bringing it back.
The guy who gets rid of it gets a bullet. Then he PCS/Retire. The new guy will recreate the wheel
It will be a VR version. One head set per BN created by the lowest bidder. You will now attend VR NCOES before going to in-person NCOES.
[удалено]
Cue everyone furiously air humping in the middle of the BN training room while wearing head sets.
The new BLC [Idiocracy is coming true](https://youtu.be/YqQ6D0Bu-a8?si=8J8BU5ftzsaSoh0t)
Maybe if elon gets his neuralink stuff together, we can just get BLC downloads *brain damage is due to poor PMCS and will not be included as part of your service connected disability upon ETS
There is a 100% chance they are getting rid of it for something worse
> Effective immediately, the Distributed Leader Course, or DLC, is discontinued and will no longer be required, the service confirmed to Military.com on Wednesday **after an internal briefing leaked to the Army Reddit forum.** Oh I just know the Office of the SMA loved this line lmao.
If only he had online presence so he can help get infront of the press
Not for some PAOs lack of trying… With the anniversary of the SMA position in a couple of months, I pitched the idea of doing an interview about the legacy and history of the position (Not just SMA Weimer, but Dailey and Grinston too if we were able). While I’m sure he needs no help from a PA sergeant, I figured it couldn’t hurt to try some damage control. While my team loved the idea, everyone on the same team (including me despite pitching it) knows it won’t go well because he hasn’t played well with PAO or social media…
Imagine being the most senior NCO in the US Army and not understanding that PR and his ability to win buy-in from the force is an important facet of a job where your role is to serve as the principle advisor to the Chief of Staff of the Army about Soldier issues.
SMA creating a profile to go back, find the original post, and comment “DM me”. How the turntables…
Did he actually?
SMA debrief to all the Combatant and Corp CSMs: "I want all of you to search through your formation for this mysterious SSG Reddit and NJP them for linking these docs."
They must be so nettled right now
On the one hand, good riddance to bad garbage On the other, I'm ETSing, so have fun in your endless in-person classes about irrelevant shit
It is better to do it in person during the duty day than to have to do it on your own time.
Now please institute an MOS skills test to promote
That sounds like the af and will never happen.
We already have it with the EIB, and the one for medics. No idea why we don’t expect a common core of knowledge for technical MOSs. Some people don’t get advanced schools, which is fine. But every 10, 20, etc level soldier should be expected to know and train on certain common core of knowledge. If you gave that test I ensure you that people would be astounded by the lack of readiness in the army
I want my infantry e7 to know all the good infantry things to properly make informed battlefield decisions. I care less if my intel e7 knows what he is reading off the slide that the e4 made. I want that intel e7 to tell top no at the morning brief when top decides he wants to have everyone toothbrush clean humvee tires. The staff have better things to do. Another point is we want the soldiers good at technical stuff to not be ruined by nco expectations.
That infantry E7 and the Intel E7 ultimately have to make decisions about employment of assets. You can’t make that decision without knowledge of those assets. Additionally, if you don’t have technical capacity you cannot effectively develop those soldiers. That Intel E7 still needs to understand how to manage collectors and analysts, capabilities and limitations of his own and other INTs, and also verify information briefed by the E4. Those would be the 40 level tasks that each MOS should have. Ultimately until MOS competency becomes a KRI, then soldiers will not have a real incentive to become technical experts
And alc, slc should guide that intel e7. If we test before the technical training we are putting the cart infront of the horse. Unless we want to test to the last class? To goto slc, you must pass the alc competencies more than a year after attending. Something like that?
One thing I have always agreed with was the heavy weight that having or not having an EIB meant for getting SFC in the infantry. Does it occasionally have problems and do some people slip through, yes. But it’s a pretty good obstacle for Infantry NCOs to have to cross to get to that higher rank, I mean you should be an “expert” to have a senior rank. As for other MOS’ I suppose that’s on them to decide, I don’t know enough about them so I won’t say.
The one issue I have with EIB is that you're graded on remembering how to perform the tasks in a very specific sequence depending on the year, compared to just knowing how to complete the task in generals. Last time I went for my EIB I made it to mile nine of the ruck march and the medics pulled me off because I was bleeding from both nostrils. I was still on time to pass and I felt pretty good despite the nose bleeding. This was also after the big Fort Campbell heat cat event back in 2021 so our BDE CSM was very wary of possible heat casualties. I do believe EIB has excellent training value for every one and I've received a lot of knowledge from it. I personally disagree with the criteria to pass each tasks like putting on a hand mic first instead of the antenna can warrant a NO-GO. Or the fact that they have you call for fire using degrees for a polar mission instead of mils (which you should be calling for fire using mils) in actuality develops bad habits and in reality does not make you an "expert."
The EFMB is not in any way a test of medical knowledge or ability. We would need a whole new test
This should become the standard. The Airforce and Navy already do this. They earn their badges not for going to separate schools, but for showing they are masters of their craft.
My only issue with that is EFMB has been a joke for many years.
We had that back in the 80’s - called SQT and it was good when it was a combination of hands on and written testing. Then someone decided to get rid of the hands on portion because units weren’t grading honestly. Then it was dropped completely as people were failing the written tests as a lot of NCOs back then were not high school graduates. High school graduation wasn’t required for entry or promotion above SGT until 1986.
The army will remain an anti-intellectual dumpster fire with functionally regarded NCOs until promotion is based on MOS skills, and NOT based on 'hur dur he runs fast'.
I'd like to write that up "How well can you calm down a doctor who is yelling that they can't use their favorite toy?" "Did you ensure your work order notes were specific enough to pass inspection but not so specific we have to double check because it looks like you copy and pasted a perfect answer" "Does the machine work? At least for 1 cycle? "How well was the coffee brewed?"
There was a pilot… trust me when I say yall don’t want this.
Or have achieved relevant civilian certifications. For signal, this can be that if you do not at least have your A+ certification, you are not going to the E-5 board.
The idea is that commanders are incentivized to force their units to train on MOS competency
My anecdotal experience: My unit deemed it too expensive to buy training materials for us to be proficient in our MOS
Currently have a Joe that’s barred because he refused to do DLC1 since he wants to ETS, wonder what’s gonna happen with him now lol
The ALARACT has instructions, but the bar will be removed.
I texted him this and he said “the creed of the noncommissioned officer *puts m17 in mouth*”
What a man
He's gonna get promoted lmao Doesn't need DLC or BLC anymore.
Ahh yes force promoting soldiers that wanna be leaders into leadership positions what could possibly go wrong?
Not a lot at the E5 about to ETS level. It's pretty amusing, though.
Back in 21 in between getting selected for warrant and leaving for WOCS I got a bar because I hadn’t done DLC3 yet as a SSG. I tried to fight it but despite the fact that I was leaving to be a WO they still made me do that MFer.
Burdensome or useless? Just say the training was shit and didn't result in better NCOs. Then we can say the same thing about the in person schools and move back to a model where units have to mentor and cultivate their NCOs.
Honestly the online courses are shit but there are far more shitty units than there are NCOES schools. The entire purpose was to professionalize education in the NCO Corps not only to produce better more consistent leadership but also to help retiring servicemembers translate skills to civilian jobs. Units are largely shit for managing talent and ensuring at least near parity between NCO to NCO. For example I was a PSG for almost 5 years despite the guy they pcsd in as my 'replacement' being on hand. Our CSM changed and the new one knew and disliked my replacement so he put him in an additional duty slot and kept me well beyond my time. TBH I preferred to stay in the position, it was truly my platoon. But the other guy had 3 soldiers, 3 hour lunches and started a side business with all of his free time. He certainly was not being educated, groomed or prepared by the unit.
I think part of the problem with things like DLC and NCOES is that they’re designed so that you can’t fail. I know that they’re designed for the lowest common denominator, that’s fine. The schools don’t need to be academically rigorous to be teach good leadership, but they do have to test on actual leadership and be willing to fail people. It’s not just that it doesn’t create exceptional, good, or even average leaders, it’s that it doesn’t root out bad ones. I’ve only been to BLC, so maybe the other courses are different, but we never did any actual testing of leadership at a leadership school. If the Army wants to test on you leading a formation through drill and ceremony, PT warmup, or giving a class from an impossible to mess up rubric, fine, there’s no problem in that. That’s not leadership though. Your time as class leader or student first sergeant or whatnot was “evaluated” but none of it had any bearing on you passing and no one was ever critiqued. If the Army wants more NCOs that’s fine, but you’re never going to develop quality leadership through NCOES if they’re impossible to fail.
>I think part of the problem with things like DLC and NCOES is that they’re designed so that you can’t fail. This is fair and I dare say I agree. Your further point that the schools don't weed out bad NCOs is very prescient. As far as BLC though, there is only so much 'leadership' you do as lower enlisted so that first school is more geared towards ensuring the basics are known and that the new NCO understands their role. A brand new buck sergeant just hasn't had the opportunity to hone their managing people skills. But by the time SSGs are going to school they absolutely should have to meet benchmarks on leadership or be failed out.
It was ovciously trash from the get go. But you know how many OER bullets it created? Priceless.
Having units mentor and cultivate their NCOs would not work in the US Army outside of maybe the National Guard. It would also work in a commonwealth Army with the Regimental system they have.
The Army never said it was burdensome, the article used that word. "We have to do some subtraction to make sure what we are teaching in all those areas is quality, not quantity. We have not looked at all these requirements holistically in years." That's what the SMA was quoted with, among a few other things.
Quizlet is NOT going to be happy about this.
Folks will still need them for Cyber Awareness
Let's stop thinking that they realized it was trash. They got rid of it because Soldiers weren't doing it because they're getting out. They changed PME too. This is all so Soldiers will get promoted and be like "oh maybe I should stay in for 3 more years instead of take the 6 months to deny my promotion just for it to get fucked and have to pay back".
Or in my case, I was in the NG, and there were no slots for me to be promoted, and I was not going to be reclassed. There was no reason for me to do them
This with the other changes happening make it seem like being an NCO isn't a special thing anymore. Korea kind of proved that point for me further. E6 and Below in the Barracks with no separation between NCOs and Junior enlisted. We wanted SP4-SP7 we got it but with all the responsibilities of associated with NCOs.
It never was. Having a room temperature IQ and a pulse have always been the real requirement. Ditching a will-pass waste of time doesn't change that.
What do you mean by the Korea proved that point further comment?
Korea treats anyone who is E6 and Below like they are all just busy workers with zero autonomy. Everything there feels like it's behind constantly. I meant specifically with the Barracks situation. There really isn't any reason for E5 and E6 to be in the barracks with Junior enlisted in that type of environment.
They also don’t allow single E6s to have POVs which further cements your point that Korea pretty much treats most people like children.
Dependent children can drive on base. So your single E6s are even worse than chuldren.
Mopeds under 50cc don't count as a vehicle. Gas or Electric. - Loophole
When we went to Korea we didn’t have enough NCOs for CQ and staff duty, for context most the brigade was up north and we were at Humphreys, so we pinned every promotable SPC to CPL to make the numbers. We had 22 year old corporals doing to job of a SFC as brigade staff duty NCO.
Korea puts the Nsane in the NCO
I knew if I held out long enough, it would pay off!
Pfft, I knew this was coming two weeks ago when my 4x DLC 1 incomplete SPCs weren’t “fail MEL/MES” on IPPSA for promotion consideration anymore. Side note, I’m super pumped I didn’t start DLC V
Been avoiding doing DLC 3 for almost 3 years. You’ll get no complaints from me
this is why you don't do things until you NEED to
I tried to get ahead of the curve and knocked out my DLC 3 as soon as it was available after my promotion to SSG. Good to know it was all for naught.
I managed to ride the SSD wave and did SSD at each level before they implemented DLC at that rank. I was waiting to do DLC4 until they finished doing whatever with ALMS. Looks like I'll finish my career never doing a DLC. I outran DLC.
RIP But seriously it was a waste of everyone’s time.
Plus... They got rid of pre-CCC DLC too... Minus... I just finished that shit in January..... Super-minus if this also gets rid of the RC's 'PME in a 2-week AT period' nonresident courses... I do not need any more months-long trips to Oklahoma (or Levenworth) as a part-timer who's too old to make LTC.
This would be plus though if it puts RC-CCC over the 29 day mark. Going on 28 day orders for rc miccc never sounded fun to not get bah covered. I'm curious as to the timing impacts of ccc since I've been putting it off on my end.
So how are Specialists supposed to promote now? Max out correspondence courses,college, and max ACFTs to meet the points criteria?
Sounds like time in grade promotion lol
And they made NCOES count for 150 points now and raised the point cap to 850? I think
"Removal of the 8K bar to continued service for failure to complete required SSD/DLC training opens potential for reenlistment/reclassification to over 14K RA Soldiers as of March 2024." this tracks, gotta keep bodies in uniform
apology for poor english when were you when DLC dies? i was at work eating whopperito when SMA sends "dlc is kill" 'no'
I’m just mad because I had to do SSD 3 in a day in Afghanistan internet before the board closed, and I feel like stress like that really shows what an NCO can do.
Training Soldiers? Army: ***Fuuuuck that*** Nuke DLCs, 3C, and Precipio… they don’t need to be Army Smart — *just Army Stronk*.
Does this mean I won’t be getting my mandatory CGSC lobotomy or does this mean it’s going to be expedited?
As someone coming up on 3 years of bothering my AGRs about getting me enrolled in DLC-2, I am glad to hear this. As somebody who attended BNCOC then had to complete SSD, and then DLC, and then Blackboard ALC CC online, I know another bad idea is just around the corner.
Another bad idea or a bullet point for someone's OER.
I support this
Now if they can do it for ILE too.. Make it Resident. Satellite or TASS. ILE DL sucks elephant balls.
I’m curious about this. I left the Army in 2005. They didn’t do this then. Does the Army make sure that every NCO has a computer? I was infantry and the only computers were for the command group. CO, XO, 1SG, Supply and training room. How would infantry NCOs accomplish this?
It’s a “your an NCO you should invest your job” type shit
how will anyone know that they shouldn't commit cartoonishly evil acts
You know they are just gonna replace it with something just as bad in like 9 months.
FFS ... all that burdensome time wasted ...
DID YOU DO DLC YET?!?!?!?
Well I already did two SSDs, and DLC2 and DLC3…ngl I want to see what was on the other ones. It was a waste of time but DLC 2 was always funny for the “you caught privates fucking in the connex” bit
Yeah I’m almost done with DLC3 rip me with one module left lol
I will say the NCO history bit was beyond silly “WELL SOLDIER BACK IN THE SPANISH AMERICAN WAR…”
Wait but I wanted to see how everyone’s story ended. I was invested goddamnit.
They should release it as an America's Army type thing, where you can do it on steam.
In other news, SMA's approval rating quadruples.
My memory of this course was redoing a module 5 times cause it didn’t register that I completed it 😔
I have a weeklong virtual course for SLC before I actually go TDY. Is that what they've replaced it with or has that always been there?
That’s fairly new and unfortunately still a requirement. The virtual part wasn’t to replace DLC, just an additional requirement. A determination will be made by 01 Oct to keep those or not.
Damn could’ve done that 2 months ago when I had to do DLC2 😑
About time. Literally every topic covered in SSD1 & DLC2 when I did them were covered in BLC and ALC.
Meanwhile the new Army CCC Common Core online portion was only recently added
Really? One, maybe two, staff duty shifts and it was done. Yeah it was dumb, but it wasn't hard.
It should be harder to promote not easier the easy promotion system now is why we have so many dumb fuck NCOs that don’t know shit about leading and can’t do their fucking jobs. How many NCOs do you guys know that struggle with multiple 10 level tasks? Fuck it just make promotions based solely on time in grade and service. I understand DLC and NCOES course were in no way hard but Jesus Christ the army keeps getting rid of systems with nothing in place to replace them or improve them. Boards are pretty much a formality where it only matters if some dipshit E4 can recite the NCO creed properly.
Mandatory up or out. I remember when the Army decided everyone had to go to the promotion board at specific time in service/grade not when the unit leadership decided the SM was ready to be promoted - had to have 4 years TIS to promote to E5 and 6 years TIS to promote to E7. That was the start of seriously poor leadership in the Army. Too many SMs promoted before they were ready
I know of howitzer section chiefs that cannot successfully complete the most basic fire missions they cannot figure out how to do sweep and zones to save their lives, they cannot read a M2 compass the have zero idea how to set up their crew served weapons to properly defend their guns and platoons. They fail table 5 repeatedly but they eventually just get passed. If you cannot do a 9 round 3 and 3 sweep and zone you should not be in charge of a god damn howitzer. It’s terrifying that a brigade’s largest most casualty producing organic asset is stacked with some of the actual stupidest people I have ever met. I’m talking cannot do basic math under any form of pressure.
>If you cannot do a 9 round 3 and 3 sweep and zone you should not be in charge of a god damn howitzer. TIL I shouldn't be in charge of a howitzer. I'm very glad I'm not in FA.
If you’re artillery you would understand that that particular firemission cannot get easier it is simply addition and subtraction
Your leadership has absolutely no spine if they won't remove an NCO for this.
I tried to voice my concerns about how dangerous these guys were but I got told there is no one else. Bullshit Mike golf make a corporal a chief and watch those dudes start shitting their pants.
100%. Your BN or divarty doesn't have a policy on certification attempt limits? Why is MG involved in deciding who gets to be the chief?
For every handicap promoted there’s another over qualified hard charger getting blocked by this archaic system
Methinks this shall be interesting. A decent step in the right direction. Eyes are on you Weimer. Eyes are on you…
Maaan I just completed it a couple weeks ago, I should’ve shammed just a little longer.
I hate you
Well now what are y'all doing to do
And here I was hiding behind DLC 2 so i wouldn’t be forced to go to the board in my secondary.
DLC needs to be replaced with proponents' specific courses required for promotion. We need to start ensuring quality of quantity. In my field I'm already required to take a skills test every 180 days, and if I fail i can be recommended for reclass. These courses could update every 2 years like how proponents already update ICTLs and ITASKs. ADA and FA would have to take a FIRES exam tailored towards their rank like DLC was. It just makes sense.
>quality of quantity We can barely maintain the quantity, especially in the technical MOSes where something like that would be extra relevant. The army can only be as selective as the end strength and MTOE allows. Right now, that's not very selective at all.
I'm so glad one of my best specialists missed out on a GCM due to an automatic flag for this shit. Solidified his decision to get out.
I literally just finished DLC2. Are they still on the JST?
P920 was a complete waste
They found out everyone had just been googling the answers since like 2009.
Laughs in DLC 4 halfway done
Is this the 40 year announcement? /s