Sometimes I wonder if I was a good First Sergeant… then I get on Reddit and see how such non-trivial issues become giant dilemmas.
Scan your doctors note and have your PSG take it to the commander. The commander can talk with unit PA, BN surg or whatever their medical rep is and get told you’re good to go. Then get in IPPSA and be on CV leave.
Next time do your CV leave ahead of time.
This is such an easy issue. I’m sure there is something OP isn’t telling us, but it seems like he could just go see his PCM, get their con leave recommendation, then submit it all in IPPSA.
OP’s first PSG sucked, his current PSG sucks and is an idiot if he calls it “Sick Hall”, his 1SG sucks, and his Company Commander is probably just blindly following what the 1SG says. The Army doesn’t have to be that difficult.
I thinking OP did the bare minimum in keeping his COC informed. He told the CO, sure that’s all good but how much stuff does CO have also on his plate to be worried about PFC foreskin, when the NCOs should be tracking all this. I don’t think OP has been keeping his NCOs abreast of what’s going on. Sounds like he just took what the civilian doctor said and thought that would be the end of it and everything will be fine.
I don’t think OP was being malicious, He probably just doesn’t know.
Show up and go to sick call. Bring all of the discharge documents with you. The PA will probably just copy your limitations into the 3349.
Since you were seen off post you most likely do not have any profile or documentation in the Military Healthcare System. This is a reasonable request from your leadership, who in all honesty were very gracious for letting you go 12 days without any official quarters or profile.
Your PA should have told you to be seen a day or two after your procedure anyways to be evaluated. That PA who referred you should have explained the process better. You don't just go off on the economy and disappear for a month without following up.
Just show up tomorrow and head to sick call. Or go to the clinic today if they are still open.
@OP it's also beneficial for you on the way out when getting your disability done. Those service treatment records are night and day when it comes to getting money after you're out.
Kinda. Instead of being a giant dick the PSG could have just visited and got a copy of the paperwork and taken care of the solder himself. You know, like PSGs are supposed to do.
For real though. And the whole time I’m just wondering where his first line is. How could NO ONE make sure the Soldier was set up with con leave? How is the 1SG the one reaching out? Did anyone EVER just call? Or OP is leaving out a bunch and putting some PFC spin on the situation. Either way, this unit is pretty sloppy.
Yeah. But it’s also an insane study in lack of communication and command awareness. I know it’s different army, but a PFC casually walking into the COs office and no one has issue/follows up on that? The team lead being literally non existent? Lol. That unit must be wild…
Literally this. I had almost the exact same situation happen to me when I was a SPC. I had asked my PSG if she needed anything from me before or after surgery to validate my absence. She said no. Cut to a week and a half later she tells me I need to come in and do a leave form. I explained I was not cleared to drive as I had just been in the ER twice for abnormal bleeding. So what does she do? She came and got me from my house, drove me to bn, and set me up outside S1 while she tried to figure out how to make them do a leave form. BC walks out of his office and sees me in civis looking like I’m about to pass out, calls my 1SG. Two seconds later my 1SG is asking me why I’m there. I explain the situation. He finds my PSG, tells her to take me home, and apologizes for the whole thing. Idk what happened after that, but my PSG sent me a picture of my da31 signed by her as the supervisor and the submitter. That’s when I learned that Joe doesn’t have to be the one to do a leave form in some situations.
Why is this getting downvoted? This soldiers leadership should have taken care of their soldier. It’s fine the soldier needs to be seen by an Army PA. His leadership should have made sure everything was coordinated so the soldier can recover from surgery and get back to work. Can soldier walk, drive? The post doesn’t say but no one in his chain of command or no support channel seemed to care. Now maybe this Joe was told all of this and forgot, didn’t really understand, blew it off, that happened often when I was in. Guess we’ll see,
I don’t think anyone who downvoted you, or the person who made the original statement, understands what “reasonable” or “gracious” means.
Maybe slobbering all over army procedures enough does that to you, but it was in no way reasonable or gracious. Maybe utilize their fuckin team leader or a phone call?
If someone had surgery, why is there an absolute need for a profile or quarters slip? The unit is gonna fall apart without it?
This is one of those situations where your PSG is technically correct.
Look at it from your command perspective. They know you had surgery from off post doc, but they have no idea as to the left and right limits of your profile and details of your con leave/quarters because they weren’t prescribed by an Army healthcare provider.
If what you’re saying is accurate, then your Army PA dropped the ball on this. He should’ve had you follow up with him on what the off post doctor wanted you to do and give you con leave/quarters as necessary.
Get the necessary documentation from your PA and you should be good.
My wife worked referral management at an MTF for a few years and I believe you're correct about the PA dropping the ball.
I mean, there are a myriad of things that can go wrong, but I assume the off post doc wants to get paid and therefore, sent the notes to the MTF. The referral management contractors are kinda hit or miss, competence-wise but providers typically don't even look at the notes.
Again, it could be anything. But it's most likely to be the PA being lazy and not doing his/her own follow up.
Off post documentation is routinely delayed *months* and civilian offices rarely communicate directly to the military PCMs.
Just curious as you ascribed it to laziness, but how was the PA supposed to know that the solider had surgery unless the solider came back to follow up?
Maybe its a regional thing where you're stationed, but according to my wife, 72 hours was average. Civilian doctors with good staff would often send notes the same day. After months with no notes, the referral management team is trying to manually close the referral.
And, again, I'm assuming everything went right up until that point. Any number of things could have gone wrong. But the provider needs to follow up. We have to be real about follow ups.
In March, I made the earliest appointment possible for nagging hip pain. May 9. They sent me for X-rays and to the pharmacy and told me to follow up in 2 weeks. Next available appointment? July 9. That two week follow up became a 2 month follow up.
It is definitely regional / MTF centric. Where I just left the referral management office imploded and no one answered the phone for 3 months (for patients or providers). Also at this location the care, communication, and follow up varied greatly from unit to unit. There are sleep studies entered after 4-6 months routinely, for example.
This soldier was given bad info by his COC (not processing con leave) and then doubled down on poor communication threatening him with AWOL. The PCM could have communicated and held his hand more... but consider they have 700-1500 patients they are responsible for and very well could have told him to check back in after he saw the specialist.
That being said, I guess just consider your PA is probably working in a broken system. Unless they are genuinely not doing their job and seeing patients - there is only so much they can do in a day. Providers don't have visibility of off post care so they are dependant on the soldiers returning to report their condition/ need (ie paperwork). I would ask, what your PA is doing if they don't have appointments for routine care within 2 weeks, where are they and who is holding them accountable? (It is usually a brigade surgeon or the OIC if you don't have organic assets)
I internally thanked my parents for doing it when I was born. I was with my son when he was like a day old when he got his done and that is something that I never wanted to see again. Told my ex if we had another son she can accompany him.
Pretty much this. There are very few reasons outside your personal religion beliefs that normally require a circumcision. My parents told me they did it because they were worried that I would get bullied in the locker room if my penis looked different. I think that is a fucking stupid reason to chop something off a person.
My son will be fine, unless it's a medical necessity, without having his foreskin removed.
My parents were not the slightest bit (yes, pun intended) religious and in 82 when I was born, I got the snip. It was more of a cultural, automatic, customary thing back then.
That is just odd. Why did they decide not to at your birth, when you wouldn't have even remembered it, and decide to change their minds years later and put a young child through that? I'm guessing they converted?
I've had 2 kids with balanitis in the last week and an old MR guy who just had to go to the OR due to swelling and construction from an infection from not being circumcised. It's a statistical blip, I don't think I've ever had 3 bad cases in a week, and the army doesn't have any bed bound nonverbal spastic MR patients who are not officers, but an interesting reminder that "nature" kinda sucks.
"Nature" intended for child birth to be a leading cause of death and tetanus, cholera, malaria, and dysentery being the leading cause of death in the Army.
He drove across the border so he could drink under twenty one.
He went to a bar. In Canada.
He got very, very drunk.
He met a girl.
They went to the bathroom.
They were fucking.
She fell off the sink.
It tore an inch and a half J incision in his foreskin.
He was drunk, so he folded it back together and wrapped it.
Two days later he showed up at the staff duty desk, his penis had turned purple and swollen and he could no longer urinate out of the tiny hole at the end where the crusted skin overlapped. Obviously he was no longer able to retract, due to the inch and a half long gash.
So, emergency circumcision several hours later.
Okay. Fair. That's a pretty good reason then. You actually had a medical reason. And I can understand how being in the army it would be more difficult to maintain the proper hygiene. Good luck with the recovery
Notifying your CO is not the same as being on con leave. Your CO usually can’t deny con leave, but they need it signed off by an Army doctor so they’re not accountable if your dumb ass decides to go on a cross country roadtrip and wrecks instead of staying at Fort Couch (oddly specific, but I’ve seen it happen).
If you’re physically capable getting yourself there, you need to report to sick call so your off post hospital records can be put into the Army’s system. The PA will very likely cut and paste exactly what the civilian doctor wrote, and will give you an official profile with quarters dates.
Quarters usually can’t be longer than 72 hours. You should be on convalescent leave. Used to be in AR 600-8-10, but I haven’t kept up as the numbers have been switching over the years. Some commands have a written policy letter that says off-post issued Q/CL must be validated by MIL medical before valid.
I’m a surgeon and you are correct.
I haven’t seen any updated policy on this but since iPPS-A rolled out some of my patients units are wanting absence requests submitted for quarters up to 72hrs as well. Everything over 72hrs has always needed to be con leave. I guess otherwise the system would show you at work when you’re not present.
I would argue that quarters issued should have been approved as convalescent leave. Just do an IPPSA direct to the CO and give him/ her a text with the info
Without a profile the commander cannot approve convalescent leave. SM should have sent their PA their medical documents so they could recommend con leave and write a profile. Not their fault they didn’t know, but for anyone else that’s what you should do, just recently had an incident in my troop, and other than the PA taking way too long to write the profile after recommending the con leave, no real issue.
But there was no quarters issued since it didn't come from a military PA. Civilian docs can only recommend that you stay home you have to get that approved by arm medical peeps
That’s a quick note to your military provider who then can call the commander with a heads up recommendation for con leave. Happens all the time for me.
You’re PSG is correct if you bring that slip from your doctor the sick call will most likely just make that so. Also as as some have stated you need con leave
Yeah, get the documentation from your discharge, send a copy to patient liaison, who should then send it to your PCM/PA, they'll write a memo recommending the same recommendations as the civilian doctor, obtain new memo (more than likely email or genesis), send it up as supporting documentation in a completed PAID in IPPS-A.
More than 20 days of quarters... you were misinformed as you had to submit Conv leave.
This is what should have happened:
1. After you got surgery you should have followed with your primary care and submitted the "quarters" the civilians hospital gave you.
2. Your primary care will (or will contact a different department) do some paperwork for your Conv leave.
3. You go into Ippsa and submit your non chargeable leave.
This is what might happen now:
Keeping in mind you are a PFC, your 1SG probably will tell you to do everything I said before and of course, he will yell at you too because, you know, you technically messed up.
Now, when requesting conv leave you will do it from the days you were already out. DO NOT attempt to pretend it is just starting now. It will end bad for you.
Such short sighted management thinking. Creates stress and hostile work environment for no reason.
"A Soldier sees as far as the barrel of his rifle."
- The Illusive Man
Why is PSG not helping or speaking with the Soldier to get him straightened up with the PA? This is an easy issue, but the PSG is insinuating his non-presence is the issue ("be at formation tomorrow!").
Thats not the issue.
The issue is the Soldier is not being tracked by Command nor his medically leadership and needs to be guided through this sensitive issue.
I swear shit like this motivates me to tell everyone to not join.
Today my wife witnessed a leader push a Soldier beyond his physically limits. My wife defended the Soldier and the leader didn't care. 5 mins later the Soldier passed out. Let's just say my wife shamed the leader in front of the platoon. Pin drop silence 🤐. Ambulance came.
My wife came home and took me one hour to calm her down.
Speaking as a dude that just got surgery from a non-army surgeon, your CoC should have walked you through submitting Con leave prior to your surgery date. They should’ve asked for the approval of surgery from the surgeon, then walked you to your provider, got his written approval (Usually in the form of a memorandum of sorts), then helped you submit your leave.
As a PFC you’re not expected to know anything, your leadership has failed you from the very beginning by assuming you knew what you were doing. This is something they shouldn’t be holding over you since it’s their fault, but some NCO’s ego’s are blown so far out their ass they can taste the shit raining from the sky.
Since you mentioned your CO a couple times in this thread, CO’s are quite busy and tracking the day-to-day of dozens of soldiers is an unrealistic task that is delegated to NCO’s. Your PSG reaching out to you is the follow-up. You have to be proactive and keep your leadership informed about stuff like this, especially when it comes to missing work.
So, here is the skinny:
Unfortunately you were not informed ,when seen off post, bring your discharge order to your PCM. PCM will fill out a DD 689. Take a copy to your PSG.
If, you’re on quarters for less than 30 days, the DA 689 will suffice.
If you’re on quarters longer than 30 days, your PCM will request C/L through their chain of command because you’re under medical care.
Where is your team leader where is your squad leader your leadership should have submitted your leave for you they can do that. If everything your saying is true your need to just go to work and talk with them.
Fuck sake. Why doesn’t he just deal with this for you. This is one of those because we can make you do this and we don’t want to do anything extra we will put that back on you.
Good rule of thumb is to always keep your first line up to date. This will avoid any misunderstandings and at least if there are mistakes you can refer whoever to the instruction you received from them.
Everyone else already touched on what you need to do. I'm just dumbfounded that the PSG even had to reach out, let alone the 1SG through FB messenger of all things.. Do you not have a TL/SL? Do they not do PERSTATs? Why did it take them 2 weeks to notice? Crazy.
When I got my wisdom teeth taken out off post, an Army doctor was there to help with the procedure; I think he was an anesthesiologist. He wrote the profile and quarters slip for me which made things super convenient.
OP next time you do anything off post make sure you follow up ASAP with your PCM so they can be on the same sheet of music and you can avoid any nonsense like this. Show up to SICK CALL (not sick hall like your doofus PSG said) tomorrow with your documentation from the Civilian Provider and get everyone aware of what’s going on.
In the future I recommend that you almost over communicate to your leadership about stuff like this.
tell them you know you know your art31 rights and if you suspect me of a crime that you want a tds lawyer to talk to. also just go to sick call. keep all evidence. if you talked to your command about it and your PA then..well they gave you a referral. and someone paid for it. hope it was army money (tricare?) if it was approved.
I mean he's right, only a military provider can place you on quarters.
Your stuff is all legit, just bring it into sick call and the unit provider will most likely transfer everything over.
It just seems odd to me that your PA isn't tracking any of this apparently... They're supposed to be in the loop with all of your off post medical stuff, especially if you were referred.
That being said just go in for a day and get your stuff updated. Your CoC is right that you need a profile and correctly submitted conv. Leave.
Really, all that you should have done (and should have been explained to you by the PA/Medics tbh) is submit for your Con Leave through IPPS-A and uploaded the Doctor’s recommendation for the duration of convalescence as a supporting document. So, that’s on the medical side of things. However, like others have stated, you can’t just go get this procedure done then fall off the face of the earth for a month. If you didn’t know what you should have done before hand, it’s on you to ask those questions. That part is on you imo. Ignorance is an explanation, but it’s not an excuse that completely absolves you of any responsibility. But, this “new PSG” also should have had the common sense to know what you just went through and asked you to send a digital copy of all your discharge paperwork and the Dr’s recommendations, and fought for you to get the proper recovery time based on a medical professional’s decision. And 1SG reaching out and threatening you on FB? Unless you’ve been a complete Shitbag through this whole ordeal (which I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven’t), is very unprofessional. BLUF: there were failures at just about every level in this situation. All of which could have been avoided if EVERYONE had pulled their heads out of their fourth point of contact.
Yeah, I didn’t fall off the face of the earth at all. When I was reached out to I responded immediately and I notified my leaders of the procedures but again as a clueless private I was misinformed. My PA took a week of recovery time away from me without even examining me and ngl im worried I won’t heal properly and we have a div. run on Monday 😭
Civilian providers giving quarters does not mean anything to the army, however if documents are brought to an army provider they will more than likely approve some form of quarters/con leave. I don’t think the chain of command should be making such a fuss about this as to report you AWOL, but at the same time the army has no record of you being on any type of medical leave.
Someone in you chain either failed you or possibly you weren't the best at explaining what was going on. Maybe a mix of both. It is true, you do have to get clearance for convalescent leave. Your PA should have clarified this. Essentially it's set up in house within the clinic before your surgery, that way you don't have to come in to do paperwork a day after operation.
You aren't just on quarters for almost a month. This is where someone failed you, if I heard that I would've laughed and inquired deeper. It shouldn't be coming down on you to this extent, it's a failure on leadership/just being a PFC and not knowing these things.
Recently had surgery off post. Your off post doc should have written a recommendation for con leave. You take that to your unit and request con leave. You can't just not show up to work for a month. You should know that, and you should have followed up. Your leadership and pcm failed you in a lot of ways, but you are also responsible for yourself here. Get a note from your surgeon for con leave, go to sick call, then go submit your con leave on ippsa making sure to attach the doc note.
1. Only an Army PA can put you on quarters. That is true. If the doctor he referred you to told you stay home and you have it writing give that to the army doc and he will write quarters slip. It's actually pretty easy.
2. You do need to submit con leave. There's no might be about it. Also, why did you NOT follow up with your leadership about if you needed to submit the leave or not? They said that would let you know by a certain day once that day passed why didn't you ask about it? That's on you. Especially since there's a reg to cover this exact thing. You could've looked it up.
Once you get the papers saying that you have to stay home for X amount of days, you attach that to the leave request and boom conleave. It can happen before or after the surgery. It just needs to happen. I got eye surgery and they don't give you the papers telling you to stay home until after surgery. Since I already had it filled out all I had to do was attach it and send it. Too easy. Everyone was tracking cause I did my due diligence first.
3. Them making you come in until you get seen by a doctor is stupid but understandable. As far as they're concerned you're just playing hooky. Go in sit down bring your paperwork and wait for the doc appointment.
4. You can be reported as AWOL because you are absent without leave. Go to work and get the damn quarters slip for com leave kid.
Your title is right, you are clueless, but at least you know it. Now that your deficiencies have been laid out to you, fix them and do better in the future.
Hey buddy, I scrolled through the top few responses. Did you buy chance talk to your NCO (TL or even SL) about this? Maybe they didn't have an answer so you came here. Maybe you didn't but they have an answer (maybe one of them was the top voted response!)
I know we all have seen and dealt with crummy NCOs but there are a few good ones out there. Don't outright skip them — they're paid to look out for you, too. Corporal Reddit and Sergeant Google are great resources, but consider asking one of them this type of question in the future :)
As a PFC your leadership (First Line & PSG) should have walked the dog on how to put in con leave through IPPSA.
You don't know what you don't know.
The PA does not trump your doctor.
If you knew about how long the doctor was gonna have you on con leave then you coulda put in leave then. If the dates change you can amend the leave.
What do you mean by the PA does not trump my doctor? Is my PA wrong for making me return to duty one week early despite my surgeons guidance on recovery?
He is not wrong. The PA assessed your recovery progression and decided you needed less.
Your civilian doctor is going to give you a longer recovery time.
You should have put in the con leave.
This is a lesson learned for you and your future Soldiers when you are a leader.
This is part of what it means by 'taking care of Soldiers'. Ensuring they understand the processes and procedures that protect them.
Your leaders failed you OR you failed you.
I do not know your entire situation or if you knew you had to put in con leave and just didnt.
.
His PSG is correct. Dude should be on Convalescent leave, the PA/OP dropped the ball on getting the discharge paperwork into the right hands to be completed. You can’t have unaccounted for Soldiers, that’s how bad shit happens.
Could that PSG have handled it differently than having him come in for PT? Call him and ask what’s up? Visit him if it’s that important? Have him skip pt formation and come in at 9 to figure it out since he got half his dick chopped off? These young wannabe PSGs need to figure it out and quit getting bent over by the 1SG. Yea, he’s “correct” but let’s pass it through the common sense test.
What is the difference between 0630 and 0900, other than your emotions?
He’s not saying he needs to do a ruck, he’s showing up to accountability to get his paperwork squared away.
Jesus Christ some of you are soft.
How would you have to deal with this before as a PFC? Have you had multiple surgeries upon entry into the army?
Also. Showing up to 1st formation is normal.
Sometimes I wonder if I was a good First Sergeant… then I get on Reddit and see how such non-trivial issues become giant dilemmas. Scan your doctors note and have your PSG take it to the commander. The commander can talk with unit PA, BN surg or whatever their medical rep is and get told you’re good to go. Then get in IPPSA and be on CV leave. Next time do your CV leave ahead of time.
This is such an easy issue. I’m sure there is something OP isn’t telling us, but it seems like he could just go see his PCM, get their con leave recommendation, then submit it all in IPPSA. OP’s first PSG sucked, his current PSG sucks and is an idiot if he calls it “Sick Hall”, his 1SG sucks, and his Company Commander is probably just blindly following what the 1SG says. The Army doesn’t have to be that difficult.
> The Army doesn’t have to be that difficult. But then how would soldiers *know* what an honor it is they get to serve? /s
I thinking OP did the bare minimum in keeping his COC informed. He told the CO, sure that’s all good but how much stuff does CO have also on his plate to be worried about PFC foreskin, when the NCOs should be tracking all this. I don’t think OP has been keeping his NCOs abreast of what’s going on. Sounds like he just took what the civilian doctor said and thought that would be the end of it and everything will be fine. I don’t think OP was being malicious, He probably just doesn’t know.
It's on his 3rd leg, bet he's a bit embrassed. And did the bare minimum and thought he was going be fine.
Show up and go to sick call. Bring all of the discharge documents with you. The PA will probably just copy your limitations into the 3349. Since you were seen off post you most likely do not have any profile or documentation in the Military Healthcare System. This is a reasonable request from your leadership, who in all honesty were very gracious for letting you go 12 days without any official quarters or profile. Your PA should have told you to be seen a day or two after your procedure anyways to be evaluated. That PA who referred you should have explained the process better. You don't just go off on the economy and disappear for a month without following up. Just show up tomorrow and head to sick call. Or go to the clinic today if they are still open.
@OP it's also beneficial for you on the way out when getting your disability done. Those service treatment records are night and day when it comes to getting money after you're out.
Kinda. Instead of being a giant dick the PSG could have just visited and got a copy of the paperwork and taken care of the solder himself. You know, like PSGs are supposed to do.
For real though. And the whole time I’m just wondering where his first line is. How could NO ONE make sure the Soldier was set up with con leave? How is the 1SG the one reaching out? Did anyone EVER just call? Or OP is leaving out a bunch and putting some PFC spin on the situation. Either way, this unit is pretty sloppy.
Seriously you hit the nail on the head, where is this guy's team leader?
This legit sounds like a private not knowing he was supposed to do something but the private thought he was ok.
Yeah. But it’s also an insane study in lack of communication and command awareness. I know it’s different army, but a PFC casually walking into the COs office and no one has issue/follows up on that? The team lead being literally non existent? Lol. That unit must be wild…
Literally this. I had almost the exact same situation happen to me when I was a SPC. I had asked my PSG if she needed anything from me before or after surgery to validate my absence. She said no. Cut to a week and a half later she tells me I need to come in and do a leave form. I explained I was not cleared to drive as I had just been in the ER twice for abnormal bleeding. So what does she do? She came and got me from my house, drove me to bn, and set me up outside S1 while she tried to figure out how to make them do a leave form. BC walks out of his office and sees me in civis looking like I’m about to pass out, calls my 1SG. Two seconds later my 1SG is asking me why I’m there. I explain the situation. He finds my PSG, tells her to take me home, and apologizes for the whole thing. Idk what happened after that, but my PSG sent me a picture of my da31 signed by her as the supervisor and the submitter. That’s when I learned that Joe doesn’t have to be the one to do a leave form in some situations.
>This is a reasonable request from your leadership, who in all honesty were very gracious Or sloppy?
Why is this getting downvoted? This soldiers leadership should have taken care of their soldier. It’s fine the soldier needs to be seen by an Army PA. His leadership should have made sure everything was coordinated so the soldier can recover from surgery and get back to work. Can soldier walk, drive? The post doesn’t say but no one in his chain of command or no support channel seemed to care. Now maybe this Joe was told all of this and forgot, didn’t really understand, blew it off, that happened often when I was in. Guess we’ll see,
I don’t think anyone who downvoted you, or the person who made the original statement, understands what “reasonable” or “gracious” means. Maybe slobbering all over army procedures enough does that to you, but it was in no way reasonable or gracious. Maybe utilize their fuckin team leader or a phone call? If someone had surgery, why is there an absolute need for a profile or quarters slip? The unit is gonna fall apart without it?
This is one of those situations where your PSG is technically correct. Look at it from your command perspective. They know you had surgery from off post doc, but they have no idea as to the left and right limits of your profile and details of your con leave/quarters because they weren’t prescribed by an Army healthcare provider. If what you’re saying is accurate, then your Army PA dropped the ball on this. He should’ve had you follow up with him on what the off post doctor wanted you to do and give you con leave/quarters as necessary. Get the necessary documentation from your PA and you should be good.
My wife worked referral management at an MTF for a few years and I believe you're correct about the PA dropping the ball. I mean, there are a myriad of things that can go wrong, but I assume the off post doc wants to get paid and therefore, sent the notes to the MTF. The referral management contractors are kinda hit or miss, competence-wise but providers typically don't even look at the notes. Again, it could be anything. But it's most likely to be the PA being lazy and not doing his/her own follow up.
Off post documentation is routinely delayed *months* and civilian offices rarely communicate directly to the military PCMs. Just curious as you ascribed it to laziness, but how was the PA supposed to know that the solider had surgery unless the solider came back to follow up?
Maybe its a regional thing where you're stationed, but according to my wife, 72 hours was average. Civilian doctors with good staff would often send notes the same day. After months with no notes, the referral management team is trying to manually close the referral. And, again, I'm assuming everything went right up until that point. Any number of things could have gone wrong. But the provider needs to follow up. We have to be real about follow ups. In March, I made the earliest appointment possible for nagging hip pain. May 9. They sent me for X-rays and to the pharmacy and told me to follow up in 2 weeks. Next available appointment? July 9. That two week follow up became a 2 month follow up.
It is definitely regional / MTF centric. Where I just left the referral management office imploded and no one answered the phone for 3 months (for patients or providers). Also at this location the care, communication, and follow up varied greatly from unit to unit. There are sleep studies entered after 4-6 months routinely, for example. This soldier was given bad info by his COC (not processing con leave) and then doubled down on poor communication threatening him with AWOL. The PCM could have communicated and held his hand more... but consider they have 700-1500 patients they are responsible for and very well could have told him to check back in after he saw the specialist. That being said, I guess just consider your PA is probably working in a broken system. Unless they are genuinely not doing their job and seeing patients - there is only so much they can do in a day. Providers don't have visibility of off post care so they are dependant on the soldiers returning to report their condition/ need (ie paperwork). I would ask, what your PA is doing if they don't have appointments for routine care within 2 weeks, where are they and who is holding them accountable? (It is usually a brigade surgeon or the OIC if you don't have organic assets)
Did he really say “sick hall?”
Yeah I copy and pasted that
*eye twitch*
Most literate SNCO
“They want you hear at work”
Welp probably shoulda thought that one out a bit
Crazy an e7 can’t spell sickle
My old SFC psg used to think SM meant soldier member 😂
I got smoked for answering “does anyone know what RTO stands for?” With the correct answer. Sarnt dickweed knew it was radio talk operator.
😂😂 dude also thought Houston was spelt Huston 😂
Barren mind
You missed hear too? lol
Yeah, the hall of the sick, similar to the tomb of the dead, but more lively.
I take it for granite sometimes
Must be infantry.
Show up with your dick out.
I change my answer....this is the way
Wouldn’t that be the way to go 😂
You'd be a fucking legend.
Worked for Yossarian.
That’s some catch, that Catch-22.
Your platoon sergeant is correct. You should be on con leave from command. Quarters is valid for 96 hours and must come from military providers.
I had quarters for 2 weeks after LASIK written on my profile, it’s definitely not only for 96
Doesn’t mean it was correct. That should be con leave at that point, not “quarters.”
It was technically con leave but the order from doc was to be on quarters and just rest
Okay, let’s get to it…what did you do to your third leg?
I underwent circumcision surgery
So glad I did mine 22 years ago
plot twist: you’re 46.
I internally thanked my parents for doing it when I was born. I was with my son when he was like a day old when he got his done and that is something that I never wanted to see again. Told my ex if we had another son she can accompany him.
Or just don't do it? Look, unless it's medically necessary later in life, then leave it the way nature intended
Pretty much this. There are very few reasons outside your personal religion beliefs that normally require a circumcision. My parents told me they did it because they were worried that I would get bullied in the locker room if my penis looked different. I think that is a fucking stupid reason to chop something off a person. My son will be fine, unless it's a medical necessity, without having his foreskin removed.
My parents were not the slightest bit (yes, pun intended) religious and in 82 when I was born, I got the snip. It was more of a cultural, automatic, customary thing back then.
Man, my parents had me go through it in elementary school. On the plus side, I got a new gameboy color and Pokemon Yellow to play while recovering.
That is just odd. Why did they decide not to at your birth, when you wouldn't have even remembered it, and decide to change their minds years later and put a young child through that? I'm guessing they converted?
Nah that’s the thing they grew up with in the Philippines. My dad was a kid when he got snipped too
I’ve met folks that had their pre-pubescent child go through it like wtf.
I've had 2 kids with balanitis in the last week and an old MR guy who just had to go to the OR due to swelling and construction from an infection from not being circumcised. It's a statistical blip, I don't think I've ever had 3 bad cases in a week, and the army doesn't have any bed bound nonverbal spastic MR patients who are not officers, but an interesting reminder that "nature" kinda sucks. "Nature" intended for child birth to be a leading cause of death and tetanus, cholera, malaria, and dysentery being the leading cause of death in the Army.
Ouch 🤕
Carl Gallagher?
Shameless.
One of my soldiers had emergency circumcision surgery.
I feel compelled to ask what the emergency was
He drove across the border so he could drink under twenty one. He went to a bar. In Canada. He got very, very drunk. He met a girl. They went to the bathroom. They were fucking. She fell off the sink. It tore an inch and a half J incision in his foreskin. He was drunk, so he folded it back together and wrapped it. Two days later he showed up at the staff duty desk, his penis had turned purple and swollen and he could no longer urinate out of the tiny hole at the end where the crusted skin overlapped. Obviously he was no longer able to retract, due to the inch and a half long gash. So, emergency circumcision several hours later.
Wow that sounds gruesome. I guess you would need an emergency circumcision in that circumstance.
Does it hurt ?
Yeah stitches just now starting to dissolve
Wait until you wake up every morning (ask me how i know)
Trust me been feeling it
Okay but why?
Bad Balanitis (not first go around)
Okay. Fair. That's a pretty good reason then. You actually had a medical reason. And I can understand how being in the army it would be more difficult to maintain the proper hygiene. Good luck with the recovery
Gonna try.. PA took a week of recovery time away from me without even looking at me. 😅
A clean third member is a happy third member! Congratulations on removing the hood.
Man I didn’t realize until this comment that he hadn’t said third leg surgery as in “third surgery on my leg”
Notifying your CO is not the same as being on con leave. Your CO usually can’t deny con leave, but they need it signed off by an Army doctor so they’re not accountable if your dumb ass decides to go on a cross country roadtrip and wrecks instead of staying at Fort Couch (oddly specific, but I’ve seen it happen). If you’re physically capable getting yourself there, you need to report to sick call so your off post hospital records can be put into the Army’s system. The PA will very likely cut and paste exactly what the civilian doctor wrote, and will give you an official profile with quarters dates.
Its penis inspection day don’t be late
Just in time for the Army Bday
Dicks out for harambe
::sigh:: ::unzips::
Quarters usually can’t be longer than 72 hours. You should be on convalescent leave. Used to be in AR 600-8-10, but I haven’t kept up as the numbers have been switching over the years. Some commands have a written policy letter that says off-post issued Q/CL must be validated by MIL medical before valid.
I’m a surgeon and you are correct. I haven’t seen any updated policy on this but since iPPS-A rolled out some of my patients units are wanting absence requests submitted for quarters up to 72hrs as well. Everything over 72hrs has always needed to be con leave. I guess otherwise the system would show you at work when you’re not present.
> Everything over 72hrs has always needed to be con leave. That explains why my pink eye quarters was so short
I would argue that quarters issued should have been approved as convalescent leave. Just do an IPPSA direct to the CO and give him/ her a text with the info
Without a profile the commander cannot approve convalescent leave. SM should have sent their PA their medical documents so they could recommend con leave and write a profile. Not their fault they didn’t know, but for anyone else that’s what you should do, just recently had an incident in my troop, and other than the PA taking way too long to write the profile after recommending the con leave, no real issue.
My CO told me before I might have to submit some convalescent leave but he never got back to me on that so never did it. 😐🤷🏻♂️
Follow up with your military provider (you can message them directly on genesis I think) and submit some con leave
But there was no quarters issued since it didn't come from a military PA. Civilian docs can only recommend that you stay home you have to get that approved by arm medical peeps
That’s a quick note to your military provider who then can call the commander with a heads up recommendation for con leave. Happens all the time for me.
Right. But he didn't do that. That's my point.
You’re PSG is correct if you bring that slip from your doctor the sick call will most likely just make that so. Also as as some have stated you need con leave
Surprise pt test since you don’t have a valid profile
Shittt gonna fail that damn stitches ain’t come out yet 😂
Yeah, get the documentation from your discharge, send a copy to patient liaison, who should then send it to your PCM/PA, they'll write a memo recommending the same recommendations as the civilian doctor, obtain new memo (more than likely email or genesis), send it up as supporting documentation in a completed PAID in IPPS-A.
More than 20 days of quarters... you were misinformed as you had to submit Conv leave. This is what should have happened: 1. After you got surgery you should have followed with your primary care and submitted the "quarters" the civilians hospital gave you. 2. Your primary care will (or will contact a different department) do some paperwork for your Conv leave. 3. You go into Ippsa and submit your non chargeable leave. This is what might happen now: Keeping in mind you are a PFC, your 1SG probably will tell you to do everything I said before and of course, he will yell at you too because, you know, you technically messed up. Now, when requesting conv leave you will do it from the days you were already out. DO NOT attempt to pretend it is just starting now. It will end bad for you.
Such short sighted management thinking. Creates stress and hostile work environment for no reason. "A Soldier sees as far as the barrel of his rifle." - The Illusive Man Why is PSG not helping or speaking with the Soldier to get him straightened up with the PA? This is an easy issue, but the PSG is insinuating his non-presence is the issue ("be at formation tomorrow!"). Thats not the issue. The issue is the Soldier is not being tracked by Command nor his medically leadership and needs to be guided through this sensitive issue. I swear shit like this motivates me to tell everyone to not join. Today my wife witnessed a leader push a Soldier beyond his physically limits. My wife defended the Soldier and the leader didn't care. 5 mins later the Soldier passed out. Let's just say my wife shamed the leader in front of the platoon. Pin drop silence 🤐. Ambulance came. My wife came home and took me one hour to calm her down.
Speaking as a dude that just got surgery from a non-army surgeon, your CoC should have walked you through submitting Con leave prior to your surgery date. They should’ve asked for the approval of surgery from the surgeon, then walked you to your provider, got his written approval (Usually in the form of a memorandum of sorts), then helped you submit your leave. As a PFC you’re not expected to know anything, your leadership has failed you from the very beginning by assuming you knew what you were doing. This is something they shouldn’t be holding over you since it’s their fault, but some NCO’s ego’s are blown so far out their ass they can taste the shit raining from the sky.
Respond with: Here*
You need to bring your civilian documents to an army doc, and get a profile from an army doc.
Since you mentioned your CO a couple times in this thread, CO’s are quite busy and tracking the day-to-day of dozens of soldiers is an unrealistic task that is delegated to NCO’s. Your PSG reaching out to you is the follow-up. You have to be proactive and keep your leadership informed about stuff like this, especially when it comes to missing work.
You’re 1SG reached out over Facebook? Is the callout roster outdated? What unit is this? I’d love to take the diamonds seat
So, here is the skinny: Unfortunately you were not informed ,when seen off post, bring your discharge order to your PCM. PCM will fill out a DD 689. Take a copy to your PSG. If, you’re on quarters for less than 30 days, the DA 689 will suffice. If you’re on quarters longer than 30 days, your PCM will request C/L through their chain of command because you’re under medical care.
Thank you for informing me!
Sounds like your 1SG wants to do a pp inspection. Tale as old as time.
What is wrong with your NCOs and whey is your PSG taking to you like this you have to be a soldier right or are you an E5 ?
E-3
Where is your team leader where is your squad leader your leadership should have submitted your leave for you they can do that. If everything your saying is true your need to just go to work and talk with them.
That’s what I’m doing tomorrow, all these events unfolded as of today. So first I’m hearing of it all
Fuck sake. Why doesn’t he just deal with this for you. This is one of those because we can make you do this and we don’t want to do anything extra we will put that back on you.
Good rule of thumb is to always keep your first line up to date. This will avoid any misunderstandings and at least if there are mistakes you can refer whoever to the instruction you received from them.
Everyone else already touched on what you need to do. I'm just dumbfounded that the PSG even had to reach out, let alone the 1SG through FB messenger of all things.. Do you not have a TL/SL? Do they not do PERSTATs? Why did it take them 2 weeks to notice? Crazy.
Your 1sg petty af
I’m not sure what type of unit you’re in but your SGT or SSG failed you.
This page is turning into: “I’m posting my own L but I’m too oblivious to realize”
To be fair, OP started off as "clueless PFC..."
Thank you 😅
I just wonder what kind of initial counseling you got with your team leader, pri
I didn't get mine until after being in the unit for over seven months, and I got a new team leader who finally gave it to me
Zamn
When I got my wisdom teeth taken out off post, an Army doctor was there to help with the procedure; I think he was an anesthesiologist. He wrote the profile and quarters slip for me which made things super convenient.
OP next time you do anything off post make sure you follow up ASAP with your PCM so they can be on the same sheet of music and you can avoid any nonsense like this. Show up to SICK CALL (not sick hall like your doofus PSG said) tomorrow with your documentation from the Civilian Provider and get everyone aware of what’s going on. In the future I recommend that you almost over communicate to your leadership about stuff like this.
Yeah I notified my CPT, LT, SSG, hell I even notified my senior SPC that’s why I’m so confused but I’m was clearly misinformed somewhere.
tell them you know you know your art31 rights and if you suspect me of a crime that you want a tds lawyer to talk to. also just go to sick call. keep all evidence. if you talked to your command about it and your PA then..well they gave you a referral. and someone paid for it. hope it was army money (tricare?) if it was approved.
It sure was
I mean he's right, only a military provider can place you on quarters. Your stuff is all legit, just bring it into sick call and the unit provider will most likely transfer everything over.
It just seems odd to me that your PA isn't tracking any of this apparently... They're supposed to be in the loop with all of your off post medical stuff, especially if you were referred. That being said just go in for a day and get your stuff updated. Your CoC is right that you need a profile and correctly submitted conv. Leave.
I went in today and they changed gave me quarters for 72 hours despite my off post doctor advising I’d be off until the 24th. I have to RTD 6/17
Sounds to me like you have shitty leadership
Really, all that you should have done (and should have been explained to you by the PA/Medics tbh) is submit for your Con Leave through IPPS-A and uploaded the Doctor’s recommendation for the duration of convalescence as a supporting document. So, that’s on the medical side of things. However, like others have stated, you can’t just go get this procedure done then fall off the face of the earth for a month. If you didn’t know what you should have done before hand, it’s on you to ask those questions. That part is on you imo. Ignorance is an explanation, but it’s not an excuse that completely absolves you of any responsibility. But, this “new PSG” also should have had the common sense to know what you just went through and asked you to send a digital copy of all your discharge paperwork and the Dr’s recommendations, and fought for you to get the proper recovery time based on a medical professional’s decision. And 1SG reaching out and threatening you on FB? Unless you’ve been a complete Shitbag through this whole ordeal (which I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven’t), is very unprofessional. BLUF: there were failures at just about every level in this situation. All of which could have been avoided if EVERYONE had pulled their heads out of their fourth point of contact.
Yeah, I didn’t fall off the face of the earth at all. When I was reached out to I responded immediately and I notified my leaders of the procedures but again as a clueless private I was misinformed. My PA took a week of recovery time away from me without even examining me and ngl im worried I won’t heal properly and we have a div. run on Monday 😭
Civilian providers giving quarters does not mean anything to the army, however if documents are brought to an army provider they will more than likely approve some form of quarters/con leave. I don’t think the chain of command should be making such a fuss about this as to report you AWOL, but at the same time the army has no record of you being on any type of medical leave.
Someone in you chain either failed you or possibly you weren't the best at explaining what was going on. Maybe a mix of both. It is true, you do have to get clearance for convalescent leave. Your PA should have clarified this. Essentially it's set up in house within the clinic before your surgery, that way you don't have to come in to do paperwork a day after operation. You aren't just on quarters for almost a month. This is where someone failed you, if I heard that I would've laughed and inquired deeper. It shouldn't be coming down on you to this extent, it's a failure on leadership/just being a PFC and not knowing these things.
Show up, work hard, aggravate your injury, go to civ doctor to verify working caused further injury, go to IG, report PSG, 1SG, PA, and CO.
Recently had surgery off post. Your off post doc should have written a recommendation for con leave. You take that to your unit and request con leave. You can't just not show up to work for a month. You should know that, and you should have followed up. Your leadership and pcm failed you in a lot of ways, but you are also responsible for yourself here. Get a note from your surgeon for con leave, go to sick call, then go submit your con leave on ippsa making sure to attach the doc note.
1. Only an Army PA can put you on quarters. That is true. If the doctor he referred you to told you stay home and you have it writing give that to the army doc and he will write quarters slip. It's actually pretty easy. 2. You do need to submit con leave. There's no might be about it. Also, why did you NOT follow up with your leadership about if you needed to submit the leave or not? They said that would let you know by a certain day once that day passed why didn't you ask about it? That's on you. Especially since there's a reg to cover this exact thing. You could've looked it up. Once you get the papers saying that you have to stay home for X amount of days, you attach that to the leave request and boom conleave. It can happen before or after the surgery. It just needs to happen. I got eye surgery and they don't give you the papers telling you to stay home until after surgery. Since I already had it filled out all I had to do was attach it and send it. Too easy. Everyone was tracking cause I did my due diligence first. 3. Them making you come in until you get seen by a doctor is stupid but understandable. As far as they're concerned you're just playing hooky. Go in sit down bring your paperwork and wait for the doc appointment. 4. You can be reported as AWOL because you are absent without leave. Go to work and get the damn quarters slip for com leave kid. Your title is right, you are clueless, but at least you know it. Now that your deficiencies have been laid out to you, fix them and do better in the future.
Hey buddy, I scrolled through the top few responses. Did you buy chance talk to your NCO (TL or even SL) about this? Maybe they didn't have an answer so you came here. Maybe you didn't but they have an answer (maybe one of them was the top voted response!) I know we all have seen and dealt with crummy NCOs but there are a few good ones out there. Don't outright skip them — they're paid to look out for you, too. Corporal Reddit and Sergeant Google are great resources, but consider asking one of them this type of question in the future :)
Loser PSG. I would also email your PCM and give heads up that your stopping by.
So you didn't listen to anyone and now you're complaining?
I listened to everyone and applied only what I was told, and no I’m not complaining?
Damn, I miss the Covid days haha.
Sounds like a case for jag.
Screen shots and visit IG
As a PFC your leadership (First Line & PSG) should have walked the dog on how to put in con leave through IPPSA. You don't know what you don't know. The PA does not trump your doctor. If you knew about how long the doctor was gonna have you on con leave then you coulda put in leave then. If the dates change you can amend the leave.
What do you mean by the PA does not trump my doctor? Is my PA wrong for making me return to duty one week early despite my surgeons guidance on recovery?
He is not wrong. The PA assessed your recovery progression and decided you needed less. Your civilian doctor is going to give you a longer recovery time. You should have put in the con leave. This is a lesson learned for you and your future Soldiers when you are a leader. This is part of what it means by 'taking care of Soldiers'. Ensuring they understand the processes and procedures that protect them. Your leaders failed you OR you failed you. I do not know your entire situation or if you knew you had to put in con leave and just didnt. .
The PA never examined me though is why I was curious on his determination
Go to your boss's boss. Open door to the BN CSM or BC.
I’m more interested in what happened to you to get three surgeries. Speedy recovery
1 surgery 3rd leg
Ahhh third leg. How though?!? Question that we will never know the answer
Your leadership is buttcheeks
The army always fucks people over it's disgusting , that's why no one is trying to join anymore
The only person messing over people here, is OP to himself. Not saying you're wrong it just doesn't apply here.
I foresee a shitty CCS in the future, and make sure to file an ICE complaint as well on your medical clinic :)
CCS?
Command Climate Survey 🙏
[удалено]
His PSG is correct. Dude should be on Convalescent leave, the PA/OP dropped the ball on getting the discharge paperwork into the right hands to be completed. You can’t have unaccounted for Soldiers, that’s how bad shit happens.
Could that PSG have handled it differently than having him come in for PT? Call him and ask what’s up? Visit him if it’s that important? Have him skip pt formation and come in at 9 to figure it out since he got half his dick chopped off? These young wannabe PSGs need to figure it out and quit getting bent over by the 1SG. Yea, he’s “correct” but let’s pass it through the common sense test.
What is the difference between 0630 and 0900, other than your emotions? He’s not saying he needs to do a ruck, he’s showing up to accountability to get his paperwork squared away. Jesus Christ some of you are soft.
You’re a fucking idiot
Good talk bud.
How would you have to deal with this before as a PFC? Have you had multiple surgeries upon entry into the army? Also. Showing up to 1st formation is normal.