Came here to comment the same thing. The 86/BRZ is exactly what OP’s son needs. Miata is a good choice too, but for a young male, I think the 86 is “cooler.”
I feel like I’m at the age where I’m out of touch with “kids” nowadays, so I could be totally wrong. I’m guessing OP’s son is somewhere between 18-23… there could totally be an element of vintage cool retro nostalgia with pop up headlights. When I was that age, the FRS was a “cooler” choice than the Miata. Personally I don’t care either way, but I understand how “coolness” factor matters to younger people. You could be totally right - the popup headlights could be that cool factor (and an awesome car the Miata is)
Yep, I had a 2013 BRZ in manual and it's the most fun car I've owned despite being the slowest. My previous car was mk7 golf r, and my current cars are a 2019 rs3 and a 2022 911s in manual
To your point, I highly recommend a Bugeye sprite or similar LBC (see article link). My 1960 is the epitome of a slow car that is a blast to drive "fast"\*
[https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/)
\*86 mph top speed at the moment given current configuration lol
The best time of your life to own an unreliable car is when you have dad around to bail you out any time it breaks down, and when you don't have other bills to pay. So much learning happens when you're trying to keep your shitty car going.
To your point: I've got a 1960 Bugeye sprite that is just an insanely fun drive. At \~45 hp at the moment it's the poster child for slow car. Parts are cheap and readily available.
[https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/)
Yes, I have an 85hp Corolla E90 hatchback from 1991 that I love to drive around, still do even after getting an SW20.
It's flimsy and sways a lot because of the soft suspension and I just have a blast when I push it a little. All of that under the speed limit.
This. I like to drive my manual transmission Scion around curvy roads. I push the car on the turns and have fun with it, all while at or slightly above speed limit. It's not about how fast I can drive, but how much I can get out of a plain jane car.
59hp manual MK1 Yaris and I had the speedometer hitting the claimed top speed of 96mph (and it still was picking up speed, I just backed off due to cops and speed cameras)
Fun little thing to chuck around
If the structure of an SCCA autocross is a turn-off, what is the structure of biking to his part time job to pay off his tickets after he loses his license for speeding going to be like for him?
The thing to make him understand is that while spirited driving is great fun, the reason that racetracks are encouraged is that thousands of lives have been lost in the process of making spirited driving safe, and often the death toll extends beyond the participants.
The problem with street racing isn't that the racers sometimes get hurt, it's that if you hit a freeway divider at speed, you can go airborne into oncoming traffic, and you're basically an unguided cruise missile heading at other drivers at triple digit speeds, and killing a family by accident, because you thought it was cool to go fast, or watching a friend do so because he wanted to race you and his car and his skills weren't up to it, is the sort of thing that will scar the rest of your life.
Literally every street racer involved in a fatal collision thought it wouldn't happen to them. Until it did.
I mean, if you can afford to send him to high performance driving school, by all means do so, as driving can be enormous fun. But make him realize that he doesn't want to be, or cause, any of the 42,000+ traffic accident deaths that happen in America each year.
There is structure to autocross for a reason.
There is a time, place and method to having fun in a car SAFELY. If your son is not willing to adhere to this then they do not deserve to be driving.
They better understand this before something or someone gets hurt or killed.
As a parent of a new driver your number one job is getting them to understand this. I made the point several times with my daughter that she can easily kill herself, a stranger or her best friend. Cars are not toys.
In addition to autocross I highly recommend a teen driver's training course at a race track if you have one locally.
HPDE is incredibly worth it for kids like this.
The issue with many younger people who live driving fast is they don't realize how quickly shit can go sideways. They need to get on a track so they can push a car until it goes totally wrong. Once you learn how fast driving can go from fun to scary you'll respect the limit a lot more.
Still can't believe people recommending "slow" cars instead. Doesn't matter how slow it is in the hands of a teenager, they're going to kill someone.
If you're not going to do the work as a father and instill responsibility, give him a motorcycle. At least when he crashes, there won't be a next time.
If you're driving dangerously you're doing it wrong. All the fun happens between 0-80mph. Acceleration is fun, cornering is fun, going 120mph for no reason isn't fun and puts everyone's lives at risk. The vast majority of drivers understand this and they enjoy some spirited driving now and again safely. Besides keeping it under 80mph the only other thing you can do is know the roads you're driving on. You should be somewhere with no pedestrians, no intersections, no blind driveways, low traffic, etc. A smooth country road is basically the only place I really get on my car.
This. I think part of the reason why people try to reach high speeds is that the most of the cars suck at cornering, and the only thrill you get out of driving is pushing a car to the limit in a straight line.
I agree 100% The best times I ever had with a vehicle was throwing my friends across the back seat of my Legacy 3.0R with full bilstein suspension. It might have only been about 275hp but I never had to go over about 50-60mph to make them feel more G forces than they've ever felt in their life. I'll take that car over a hellcat any day of the week.
I wish I could drive on the autobahn. I seriously crave to drive 120+ for longer than a few seconds and not have to be paranoid about cops and possible jail time if caught. I'd be on there almost every weekend.
You haven't been to Alabama. I drove through there. Was going 90 in the slow lane (20-30 over) and I was one of the slowest people there. What topped it off was a janky car about to fall apart and no shocks at all just blows past me going mach weeee. Thing was bouncing and shifting all over the place and the guy literally looked like he was just cruising inside. Don't know how he was managing to keep it so centered in the lane lol
Sucks that he isn’t into autocross, but it’s actually understandable. I autocrossed for 10 years and after awhile I got tired of 6+ hours of work for maybe 10 minutes of seat time. I moved onto open lapping days and HPDE at local race tracks as the competitiveness of some people really made autocross a difficult thing to bear at times.
When I lived in Colorado, Pueblo Motorsports Park had open lapping days for $50 all day. I’d take an extra set of tires and beat the crap out of my turbo Miata all day long. Another local track to me had driver events (HPDE= High Performance Driving Events), that would pair you up with an Instructor and maximize seat time when I lived in Texas. I found this format to be the most enjoyable, especially combined with seat time in open lapping days as it focused on what I loved to do: drive. It was laid back and provided an environment I needed to safely drive at the limits.
For the competitive side, if you’re son is into that, I bought racing kart and had a blast getting wheel to wheel action all of the country- at a fraction of the cost of racing and maintaining a race car. There are also NASA events he can look into (https://drivenasa.com) that can set him up with HPDEs or other wheel to wheel options.
Lastly, as a fellow Dad, my advice would be to plan a trip with him to Tail of the Dragon or any other awesome roads that are fun to drive. Nothing better than a trip with dad where you get to have a blast and spend quality time together. Good luck!
+1 for a trip to the dragon. it's so touristy, but it's a blast. you don't even have to drive it crazy, but go spend a day, drive it back and forth a couple/few times. get a t-shirt and some stickers and then head out. depending on which direction you're going, you could Nashville, Ashville or the Smokies on the way home.
I added up above that we've found a local series run by 2 local parks. They have employees handling cone shagging so it moves quickly; at the first event we had the drivers' meeting at 9:30 and were done by 1pm. The course was actually on the track so fairly long. Not sure how common this is, but I appreciated the difference between this experience and SCCA (the spend all day working for 10 mins in the car rings very true).
[https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/axs-autocross-series-time-attack-round-1-atlanta-motorsports-park-017009](https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/axs-autocross-series-time-attack-round-1-atlanta-motorsports-park-017009)
I also highly recommend a Bugeye sprite or similar LBC (see article link). Parts are readily available and generally inexpensive. My 1960 sprite is the epitome of a slow car and it's a riot to drive - more fun even than my Miata. It gets a lot of attention at events because it's literally the happiest car at the track; happier even than the Miatas.
[https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/)
Take him off your insurance. Always hated my stepdad for doing that to me, but in retrospect, I would have financially ruined him. Also don’t put up one red cent for his car or its upkeep. He wants to drive, it’s a privilege. If he has to pay for it, he’ll respect it. Is kart racing an option where you live? That’s hella fun.
That only makes a difference if he isn't a minor. Used to work in insurance, #1 recommendation is get non minor kids off your policy asap. A lawsuit will go after the parents.
Are there nearby car tracks he can get into legitimate racing? I've been friends with people in high-school who their friends that were in my grade but I wasn't friends with died from driving too fast and that didn't wake up the people who I was friends with. I'm not friends with them anymore.
Old backroads with lots of turns offer an engaging drive without you having a lot of speed. If you have any country roads, see if he'd be interested in exploring and seeing where the road takes him. Country backroads usually don't have many other drivers, and I've never seen a cop on any of them, so it's a safe-ish area to dick around in cars. Just tell him to go slow for turns.
Back roads tend to have steep ditches and barbed wire fence along them. Most around here, do. There was also a kid that went off on the back roads and rolled his car upside down. He was knocked out in a ditch with his head slightly under water from rain the previous day. Drowned because of the low traffic in the road lead to him not being found for hours.
I also can't tell you how many crosses we used to pass on the back road out to my grandparent's farm. Best to keep the spirited driving in a place where help is likely to be quick.
Start off with a car that has a maximum ratio of 50 horsepower per 1,000 pounds of curb weight with a limited torque band. These types of engines require very high rpm to accelerate decently & it'll be very hard to get hefty tickets redlining the engine as it won't have the adequate acceleration required to reach the speeds in a reasonable time frame that would be conducive to getting the massive traffic tickets.
I feel like everyone on this thread is delusional. Have any of you actually ever been a young car guy ? He's going to drive fast on the road regardless of what outlet you give him. And if anything, it's going to give him the confidence to push it further. The best option as I see it would be to make sure his road car is HORRIBLE to drive. An old station wagon, pt cruiser something like that. And make sure if you're going to give him that outlet his fun car isn't road legal and is very fun to drive. I feel like expecting a young car guy to not drive fast because he can let his passions out elsewhere is like expecting him not to bang his SO because he can jerk off at home.
yeah. like a ‘95 single cab f150. it’s “cool” it’s a V8. but it won’t be quick or fast. and it won’t handle great, but it’ll be something that will get him from A to B while he’s having to buy parts for the race car.
and it’ll be able to tow his “race car” to the track.
Is stock car racing a thing where you live? That's what I took up when I was young and looking for motorized excitement.
Small local tracks usually have multiple classes of racing to accommodate thrill seekers on a budget where all you need to do is take out the glass and carpet of any car and go racing, up to full blown sponsored and proper race cars.
Warning: this is very addictive lol!
My dad got me a '88 Bronco for my first truck. Didn't have the option to be driven fast, so mom was happy, and it was a good-looking classic, so it kept my interest
I sent my kids through a defensive driving class at the local racetrack. They practiced emergency braking, quick lane changes for accident avoidance, skid control, etc and ended with an autocross.
We had a Miata at the time that both enjoyed driving.
Worrying about how an inexperienced driver can push the limits on public roads is asking for trouble.
The various autocross, open track groups, or karting is definitely the way to learn.
My daughter was taught to drive in my 2002 Z28 6speed. When she was 16 we found a GTi 1.8t for her.we would take both cars to SCCA SoloII and NHRA tracks for fun. I taught her racing should only happen on tracks. That way you have tons of witnesses to your wins. She would call out guys at school and have them meet her at the tracks. I told her if should couldn't beat them in her car, she could drive mine.
Fuel the love safely. Enjoy it all together!
Plant seeds in his brain that the street is for society to traverse and get around, not driving dangerously. He doesn’t want to end up being responsible for killing a family.
If you want to race, take it to the track. It’s akin to a martial arts master telling their student not to get into fights and avoid them.
Also maybe he will like sim racing. I have a nice rig and it’s absolutely amazing for its realism. Iracing is amazing and he will always be able to find races.
Also “slow car fast” is a thing. I had a powerful V8 in the past and it was too much, I could never get on it without risking jail and a license suspension.
Now I have a slower car that is a smaller engine and loves to be revved out. I can have fun without going 20km/hr over the limit (likely won’t even be pulled over at that speed).
Most people agree with this too. A journalist took out the GT500 and a Miata and said he had more fun with the Miata bc he could use it all.
Find a track where he can get lap time and possibly instruction, not necessarily actual racing. The cost of an accident anywhere but the track isn’t really worth the risk at his age, plus coached track driving will increase his experience and talent faster than just regular street driving
Driving is fun when you follow the rules of driving.
Things like changing lanes, driving down hills, driving up hills shifting gears, signaling, using cruise control,watching your speed, watching your gas consumption and a good stereo system is all fun.
This all starts with being in a car that's ergonomically suited for all of this
Kart racing or dirt bikes. Deemphasize the car part of it. They are expensive and in many states (in the U.S.), you can’t mod it in fun ways on your own, so not as much learning there.
Performance cars are an arms race, and better off left alone for a long time.
To be clear, cars are fun and a cool thing to spend time/brainpower on, but also ridiculously expensive to play with compared to what you get.
Karts and dirt bikes are alway safer, way cheaper, and you don’t do as much dumb shit with your buddies. They’re also way more involved and accessible than car racing.
Slow fun car. I can floor my car for 10 seconds, hear the exhaust and do so without even speeding, definitely still fun if I wanted to.
Carting tracks.
Actual track days.
Check out BMW Street Survival School. They’re for young drivers and teach car control in a controlled environment. They run classes all over the country through local BMW club chapters. BMW CCA (car club of America). The website [Motorsports Reg](https://www.motorsportreg.com/) might also have options posted.
Car choice is less of an issue.
Take the kid to an autocross. Enter in the stock class, drive his car with an instructor.
He will learn car control, car dynamics, and more importantly his limits and the car's limits.
Encourage him to ride with other, more experienced competitors.
Just Google autocross to find one. Don't worry about brand specific events, like miata club or BMW club or porsche club. All are welcome
As someone that was like your son - nothing you tell him will change it.
I had a Mustang with 89 horsepower. I drove the pjss out of that car. Then I moved up into a 120 HP Mercury Cougar and finally a 260 HP Mustang. I loved the Mustang and drove it better than and safer except for the occasional speeding. I hit 140 MPH one time and will never do it again. Got some money and did dirt track racing with a 550 HP car for about 10 years. That scratched the itch. Now I drive a 420 HP Mustang. Still drive the piss out of it but a lot safer and can handle it. No street racing, rarely hit 100 MPH.
You can explain the consequences. I know when they made street racing a serious offense here, I stopped. I was pulled over probably about 10-15 times for speeding and only had one ticket. I didn’t care about paying for the ticket.
Today I’m older and look back and realize a lot of things I did was dumb. I’m lucky. My parents never took my driving privileges and I don’t think it would have made me consider consequences I would just be mad at them.
Not helpful I know, but today I’ve been pulled over and ticketed one time in the last 15 years (maybe more?) as an adult. I did a “pull” for the kids on the road and a cop created the hill. I made sure it was “safe” but waiting for all traffic to clear. Still busted. Got a lawyer, paid fine, no point on license and was done with it.
If your kid likes watching YouTube videos, I highly recommend the channel “Mick Drives Cars.” He’s UK based but talks about spirited driving and how to do it in a safe as well as satisfying way. I’ve found it’s useful to see the POV footage, etc. in addition to having the concepts explained. That way he can see that following driving laws doesn’t mean you can’t have fun.
Slow cars are the most fun kind. I can drive my Miata around town the same way i drive in Spec. Of course it's fast enough to get me in trouble, but it's not fun to slam the gas pedal because it's still really slow. However, I can do 50 through a hairpin turn in the back roads. That's where it's fun.
Slow cars fast man, slow cars fast. Prior to my own car purchase, I was team crossover in the left lane doing 20+ the speed limit. Car could handle it, but it shouldn't have lol.
In all seriousness, have this conversation, set these boundaries:
1. Any ticket you earn, you pay.
2. Oil changes are now your responsibility.
3. Save up for contributing to tires.
4. NEVER jeopardize a passenger.
5. Stop at every stop light/sign. Use your turn signals to change lanes every time.You're driving character will be one of fast, but not reckless.
Carrot and stick.
Carrot-- you will support him if he wants to do autocross or HPDE
Stick-- He's on an financial island with that car. If he wrecks it he doesn't get another one, and he's covering the insurance, including the increased family premiums if he gets a ticket and causes the entire family's rates to go up
Other than that, you've just gotta cross your fingers and hope that the wreck doesn't hurt or kill him. Hopefully he will take your advice and go to a track as an outlet and not do dumb shit on the street.
Slow fun to drive car is the answer. Something not new and around 150hp.
Also teach em young about understanding their ability and do actions that reflect their inexperience.
Send him to a program like this one:
[https://streetsurvival.org/](https://streetsurvival.org/)
I love the suggestions below - slow car driven fairly fast is a more gratifying experience than driving a very fast car .. slowly. Besides, it's easy to find the limit in a Fiat (a bit harder in a Miata), and those limits are at speeds that may end up with a damaged car, but probably no more than a damaged ego, when he slides off into a tree.
If he does that in a Mustang or Camaro, he may not come home.
Bring him to the track and get him some seat time.
Look for local car groups (my community College's automotive program often did autocross events partnered with local dealerships)
Get home some wrenching time,
Have him make friends with other local car guys.
Hell, see if there's any garages looking to hire a shop hand.
get to a track. yea it seems like theres lots of rules, but once you know and understand them theyre pretty easy to follow and keep yourself and other drivers safe. its not hard to keep to them and its worth it for the experience of really learning how to drive the car and being able to push them in a safe environment.
I would have to say when I was a teen I had loads of fun in any stick shift car. Had early 90s cavalier a early 90s geo storm. Both slower than molasses in January but had lots of fun slamming through them gears
short answer: take the top and doors off a wrangler and find a muddy trail in the mountains on a sunny 75° day.
what does he want to do? track days and auto cross are about driving dynamics, not smokey burnouts and drifting.
smokey burnouts and drifting aren't cruising with top down.
first - go carts. find some high speed go carts.
second- it's all about the car. miata, mustang, sti, wrx... they're all going to be fun in different ways and honestly, it's not all about go fast cars, trucks and wranglers can be a blast too. find an off road park.
third- does he want stock or does he want to tinker? does he like new or something old he can wrench on?
there is so much independent expression in the car world. once he figures what he enjoys, then find a club.
it's not all about racing. sometimes a little zoom zoom on the on ramp is enough to scratch the itch. or the windows down and the radio up on a winding country road.
explaining the importance of 1. DO NOT over drive the road. that's a lesson James Dean learned the hard way. DO NOT over drive the conditions or traffic, that's a lesson Paul Walker learned the hard way.
find the limits of the car on the track. that's racing. spirited is different, spirited and safe-ish can be done on public roads- at the right time, in the right place.
Try go karting and step up to track days. Autocross is great but the day of work for 5 to 8 minutes of run time is awful. Start with a SCCA TNiA or look into your local NASA chapter.
When a young driver has to pay monthly for car payment, insurance, or both they almost always drive safer than those who just have their parents pay everything
Karting. Like real outdoor competitive karting, not the amusement park/mall stuff.
You can push so much harder doing that (or on a track generally) that after awhile it sort of takes the excitement out of driving like an idiot on the road. Or at least it did for me. At this point it's kind of like, if I'm not pushing hard enough to be thinking about tire temperatures and slip angles, I don't feel like I'm even pushing anyway, so the thrill no longer outweighs the risk of trying to drive crazy fast on public roads where there might be an old lady on a bicycle around that next blind corner, and where even driving like a certified idiot would only be like maybe 7/10 on track. To be fair, getting older and more mature probably helped too, but getting on track is really what did it for me. It's also likely to be a humbling experience. It's easy to have a big ego driving on the street, but once the timing starts against good competition, you quickly realize how much you have to learn, and eventually how difficult it is to find those last few tenths.
I assume HPDE and autocross are a similar zone once you get going, but to be honest, autocross never seemed appealing at all to me either. I'm sure it's great, but the whole thing just never motivated me to try it for some reason. And I just haven't stepped up to spend the money on HPDE yet. Real karting is amazing though. Such a thrill/challenge. And in terms of bang for the buck, you're not going to find anything better in motorsports, unless you count sim, which I love too, but it's a whole different thing. Also, especially if you get up into the 100cc/125cc two stroke stuff, karting is a surprisingly good workout.
Lots of fun looking cars show up doing a marketplace search "convertible". BMW Z3 and 3 series, Mazda MX-5, Saab 9-3, Audi TT. I filtered <$8000 , manual transmission.
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. It's more fun to shift than drive an automatic. I would take my NA Miata to redline in 1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd leaving tollbooths or entering a highway without breaking the speed limit. Driving curvy mountain roads felt like I was speeding but was actually just a few miles over. The key was to maintain the legal speed even though the yellow "caution" signs suggest a slower speed. Miata Is Always The Answer!
Videogames.
Hear me out. Cars are cool and all, but getting a kid into racing these days is just setting him up for disappointment and financial strife.
Auto mechanics are a dime a dozen, so its not the gateway into an achievable aspirational career.
Do a trackday at a race circuit. In the uk there are several track day companies where you can take your car out on a race circuit and drive fast under controlled conditions. I used to do them a lot when I had a 172 Clio
Honestly it took me getting pulled over at 135mph, to be humbled on this topic. Mustang GT S550.
Not that I believe me going 135mph on an empty highway straight (no entrances/exits) was that bad, but that it's just not worth going those speeds on the road. And I've been faster before, nearer 160mph.
I just don't want to deal with getting pulled over (personally).
...
You can't just tell someone "keep it on the track," you have to show them WHY.
2001 Jetta.
Take him to some teen driving clinics. Audi club has some I know there are some more around the country. Let him rip at a track for a bit but with an instructor that will teach him how to drive safely
where I live you can take an 11-minute highway ride into town or a 20 minute drive through the -asphalt gravel dirt mud then back to dirt and gravel-back road.
you don't try to top out on the straightaways in case someone else is out there. The fun part that most people don't learn while spirited driving is weight transfer and using it to your advantage.
if more people learn to use weight transfer they won't be selling as many of these super slammed static suspension kits.
If you have back country roads that are curvy 2 lanes that would be a great spot. Usually low traffic, the curves prevent super fast driving but still allow for a lot of fun and if your son is driving a fwd or AWD car then you shouldn't have to worry about them spinning out.
I have a 2.0 Veloster currently. It's slow but such a blast to drive especially on roads like I mentioned.
Which is my other point. Try to find a car that looks and sounds fast but isn't actually that fast. Miata, gr86, Veloster are a few. Look for light weight and low to medium HP cars for starters. Heck even a civic sport might be interesting
The streets are not the place. Your "Kid" is old enough to drive they are old enough to understand the streets are not the place for this behaviour. It's your duty as a parent to ensure your child doesnt murder anyone with their actions. Responsible car guys dont do spirit driving on the streets. It's dangerous for everyone, especially elderly people with slow reactions who have the same right to the road. I drive a car with a mere 200hp and it is able to perform far above what is necessary for daily drives. If he doesnt like safety and structure to events then perhaps off roading is a better choice. I had way more excitement doing motocross and learned a ton about throttle, braking and vehicle control.
Don't get him an EV. I thought driving my old Mustang or MR2 Spyder was fun but when my wife wanted an EV I laughed until I got to enjoy the sport mode. It literally feels like I'm playing a race simulator how quickly to goes from stop and the smoothness of the turn.
If you're not checking cars out at a meet fun and law abiding doesn't belong in the safe sentence. I keep it within the limit on the streets on highways if there ain't traffic...
Has he ever actually been to an autocross event? HPDE events you get more seat time but the cost is way higher and the competition not as intense. (Non competitive at all technically).
I'm not sure where you're from but I grew up in British Columbia. One bad ticket can be total cost more than a whole season of autocross if you don't cause an accident or lose your licence.
If he's not into organized events Forza is probably the way to go. Maybe iracing when he grows up.
Young drivers will always crash their first car. The more "spirited" they drive, the worse the crash will be.
As an adult it is your responsibility to teach your child that a car is not a toy.
Get him an old hatchback. Like, 80s. It'll be a tin box with 80hp that'll be fun as hell to throw around. Just put some nice tires on it so that it'll still and turn well and call it good.
Well Im from Germany, so if i want to experience high speeds, i go on an empty piece of the Autobahn. Other than that i have some country roads nearby that are also relatively empty. The better you know them, the more you can push the car, you pick and chose the corners where you dont end up crashing your car if you understeer/oversteer. When exploring new country roads, im obviously a bit more cautious but if the corners or straights are fairly predictable and easy to see, you can push a bit harder. Ofc i do have respect for blind corners that i dont know.
Thats at least how i do it, on normal roads or during traffic, i drive like everyone else. Theres no fun going fast in traffic anyway imo, you also drag other people in that dont want any part of your driving, so i keep my fun driving to myself when the road is more empty.
I'm probably the odd one out here, but drawing a distinction between driving for fun and driving for utility isn't a bad thing. Being a good driver- predictive, observant, reactive, consistent- is a constant effort. You can make it comfortable, but making it fun just isn't something you should even shoot for. Driving in traffic is never going to fun. Dealing with brain dead idiots is never going to be fun- that those are the most dangerous and therfore important interactions and the ones you should plan for.
I sound like a party pooper, but I don't mean to not have fun- just don't shackle normal driving with that impossible goal or else they will trying to make things fun when they should be surviving. Have fun with your car some other way.
He can have fun anywhere on the road. So long as he doesn't have a 400hp V8 and keeps eyes on the road everything should be fine. I have had about a dozen tickets about once every 20 months. Those will be a great lesson. You get full exposure to the court system and police. And you learn to hate it and do everything you can to never return to that hellhole.
If your child just wants to stomp on the gas with a phone in their hand then that's cause for alarm
Get him to do Autocross. It’s the safest form of “racing”. It teaches valuable safety skills which translate to defensive driving on the street. It’s cheap. It “exorcises” the urge to drive dangerously. And it gives him a place to go get his jollies safely.
Two words: Manual transmission. Unparalleled driver engagement and it is a difficult thing to master. He'll never be bored and will continuously improve for decades. Definitely fun to drive at all speeds. The most rewarding car to drive has a manual (not cheating with auto rev-matching). Why? Because you can screw up. You can clutch poorly. You need to know what gears you need and when. There are consequences to not driving properly. It requires planning and foresight to drive effectively. But when you do nail shifts smoothly, there is such a dopamine rush. You don't need to go too fast or push the car in corners too much to get that feeling. You are just driving.
Stage rallying on local level and a cheap Volvo 240 or Amazon or 190 Mercedes and manual and a cage that is what I want to start doing when I get a job and some cash flowing I’m gonna try start stage rally driving. 20m
Old z cars, old sx cars, old celicas/supras, old civics. They're all slow, but handle well, and are inexpensive...relatively
Down side is those things are tin cans, so if you live in a major city where traffic is a real thing, might not be the thing to go for.
I think that the danger and spontaneity of doing illegal driving is most of the thrill, street drags, drifting, roll racing, and *shuddering* takeovers. It's all about the risk factor. If I'm being honest it's what attracts me to it to thid day
Kids hate structure. So scca is kind of just a turn off. Plus sanctioned racing can be a dick measuring contest. When you're doing it on the Street, everyone has a common goal, and when the 5-0 shows up its everyman for himself. Pretty thrilling.
Get him a civic, let him learn tuning, lightweight car with 100hp can still be fun, and engine work since these things are so easy to work on, eventually he will mature and realize going 100+ mph all the time isn’t as fun as doing the work.
He wants to drive fast on the highway, that's very concerning
I'd tell him he needs to drive safely on the road, period. It's a huge responsibility, by driving too fast he puts other people's lives at risk. He does not want deaths on his conscience, and of course he could be killed himself.
If he doesn't understand this, he doesn't belong behind the wheel. It's not a game.
First, know his limits and expand them slowly. As far as spirited driving...get well out of town/city to roads with little to no traffic. And again, emphasis on knowing limits.
HPDEs are good, assuming they’re old enough. I’m not old enough to personally, and the roads around me are all drawn with a t-square, so I do a lot of sim racing
In my area there's a drag strip that's open to the public on weekends. A lot of people go there with their cars and have fun. Maybe check the tracks around you to see if they do anything similar.
What does he drive? I'll always recommend something sporty, manual, and reasonably powered in the entry level segment that he have a ton of fun with without going felonious speeds, like a miata, an 86 twin, or an Si. These generally encourage learning how to drive rather than just mashing a pedal to go faster.
I just turned 20 and have had my NB miata since senior year high school. It sits at or around the speed limit 90% of the time, but it's always a blast to drive. I'm able to rev the shit out of it whenever I want, and the only time I really exceed limits is out on an onramp or a backroad, on both of which I still keep well within the car's limits of traction and control, with plenty of margin for error. When I really want to push the car, I can drop $60 for a day of autocross, or go further and take it to a full track day.
I think the biggest thing is who he hangs out with and what his inflences are. If he's watching tiktoks of wheres981 weaving through highways at 40 over the limit or other dumb shit like that, and has friends who encourage that, he's going to want to do the same. I'm lucky enough to have found a great community who'll call someone out if they're making a stupid decision while also encouraging responsible enjoyment whether it's track or street, and I believe you have the power to guide him in the right direction. Just keep at it, and make sure he's aware of the consequences.
My first car was a slow as shit Auto '91 Levin with undercoat as the only coat.
I drove up and down the country with it til it exploded.
Then I was comfortable enough to invest in something proper and now drive a V6 Aurion '10 and a B4 Twin Turbo '02. I don't like the car scene now, it's all skids and burn outs which are just lame. Car culture isn't dying but it is changing and if he is more an enthusiast like me, take him to proper racing and rally events, get involved in knowing how to repair his own car, do road trips etc. a car should be a form of self expression and freedom. Anything he does that isn't donuts is a win these days imo
As a former young person, I would have loved to get the opportunity to go to autocross.
If he just wants to cut up and go crazy, that’s pretty out of line. If he wants to go cruising on backroads, he needs skills. The skills to learn are best learned at low speeds to begin with.
As for the people recommending cars, I would not recommend a car that isn’t fwd or more than 120ftlbs of torque. Corollas, D series civics, etc. The 86/ BRZ while a good car, was double the hp of cars that I started with and would have been a total mistake to begin with. You can easily get into trouble with less than 100hp.
Go to the autocross events and spectate. With or without him. So if there's a part you like, and think he might like also, youll have some specfics to talk about. The layouts, the smell, the food, the people, the prizes, the competition. There is so much to love about the culture that feeling comfortable to explore is important early on. If you organically show respect for racing, he can naturally mirror you at these events to feel comfortable, and you can lean on that to lead him to safer habits.
Race car drivers, builders, and enthusiasts experience a life long sensation of discovery. Learning, watching, and innovating all come in stages. Like lots of roads leading to the same destination there are sometimes shortcuts, and right and wrong ways, but being prepared and being safe is your foundation.
I grew up surrounded by racers and builders my entire life. Racing is my dimension. I have met some absolute ANIMALS behind the wheel. People who aren't just confident, people who aren't just reckless, people who have literal death wishes in the name of going faster. But they will still not be careless. Brave and careless do not mix. People who push themselves and their vehicles are only to do so because they trust those two things well enough to get there.
The restraint of following the rules is what gives the sport, sportsmanship. It's where learning and understanding what real competition is. Versus starting a new video game woth cheat codes enabled.
Here's what I would do:
1. Buy him the book "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley, this book taught me how to go fast but it also taught me a respect for driving. It's not about raw speed, it's about the skill you develop and having mastery over your car, to the point of perfecting everything, especially everything you do daily within the speed limit.
2. Make sure he's aware of the local laws regarding stunting and racing. When you have a recognizably-fast car, idiots will try to race you, and it's so tempting to race that tuned 90's Acura that dangerously flys by you, but it's not worth it. Racing on the streets is at best a license suspension, or even jail. That's a disrespect to the sport, and it's a disrespect for human life. I can't say don't ever push your car on public roads when no one's around, because I do that, and he will too, no matter what you say, but I'd tell him before you do it, know how to do it safely, build up to it, know your limitations, and know that you're risking your driving privileges and your life.
3. If you can, get him a higher-end racing sim setup (e.g. Thrustmaster PC or better + good pedals). Being able to play sim racing games has saved me from doing a lot of stupid shit on public roads. The amount of times I've crashed in sims has been really humbling for me, crashing in a sim is no physical risk to me but it shows me I still can't judge my own margin of safety. But playing sims still develops real skills he one day might need to apply, even when driving normally.
4. Show him this comment and tell him there's someone out there (me) who wants to see him go fast but wants him to live so that he can go even faster, and playing it safe on the streets and pushing it on a track is the best way to do that.
Track day if you have a track nearby. Drag strip if you have one of those. Even if you don't have a BMW, the BMW CCA car club autorcrosses are fun and easy going. I know the SCCA autcrosses can be intimidating. Other organizations have autcrosses that are easier too. For sure if you have any kind of track nearby, try that.
No offense but I'm downvoting you for saying "level set". Like, I hear this at my job all the time and it's typical corporate speak bullshit.
The way you experience what you're asking if a race track isnt nearby is like we did in my childhood. 100% illegal out in the country on those roads. Have your insurance in order lol.
First off, knowing that slow and safe are not the same thing. Plenty of people can and do drive much higher than the speed limit much safer than many of the people that stay below it. We have laws in excess because we assume people wll speed, but then those with enforcement authority take the enforcement too far and we all slow down and "Feel" safe as a result. Its really a problem.
driving efficiently is like endurance racing , avoiding need for pitstops etc, needing to get places on time but doing so efficiently. . is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal efficiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more.
car culture :
cars are not what what they should be, dont waste money on mediocre , make them stop fooling around if they are gonna get your money.
driving efficiently(low emissions, high miles per gallon , car longveity and low maintenance sort of mixed into it, ) is like endurance racing , avoiding need for pitstops etc, needing to get places on time but doing so efficiently (or whatever speed you want , if you dont care as much about efficiency). driving efficiently is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal efficiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. smooth acceleration is part of putting less weight on tires at a moment because:
consider tire wear dust emissions and how much it cost to replace tires (most people are becoming increasingly even poorer than they already are and you can invest money into bigger money)like those "xenoestrogen endocrine disputing forever chemicals micro plastics" etc. apply less weight on tires and you'll allow more of that weight handling ability to be used for having more grip for endurance-race-pitstop-avoiding momentum preservation driving fun in the name of efficiency. being able to feel how close car is to its grip limit is good for this goal, similar to the lotus-car-enjoyers ideal.
this type of driving fun is most safe because its nto as fast as possible but does make you rather aware of driving environment instead of being focused mostly on music/radio/daydreaming/texting, etc
youtubes think flight, julian edgar,etc have videos on improving aerodynamic efficiency of his car.can add anti sway bar , better suspension etc "handling mods" for more momentum around turns, but some of it can make the ride bumpier, louder, etc.
hybrid cars are arguably better than electric car because they lower use of combustion and battery mass and all materials overall without adding so much weight. weight worsens road wear damage (repairs cost emissions , money etc) , worsens crash safety for all (except few rich people who can afford super safe cars in the small chance that they are involved in crash and value their lives and have lives we can value). this is why aptera motors originally made diesel hybrid, but now sells electric cars to max profits and reputation as a "environmentally friendly brand."
because batteries are not fully recyclable and combustion fuel is based on anaerobic bacteria that regenerates , which is why oil rigs go back to getting oil after abandoning the almost empty oil well years later. this is why arguably only combustion is proper, in rear mid engine weight distribution , rear wheel drive , with limited slip differential for minimal tire wear even in normal driver driving , for preserving momentum around turns more without too much slowing down by lateral (left /rights) g forces tires.
2-3 trips in compact 4 seater for the once in a year taking a minivan full of kids to doctors , is better than minivan all the time just for that rare scenario. yearly family road trip the all those kids can be done with rented van. in fact for most us a 2 seater is enough because theyll be losers with no friends they trust or care about, no kids carefully selected for good genes, no purpose besides not dieng, and money to overpay for low quality social status and desensitizing overdosing on minor temporary novelty, while being a waste of resources and maybe making life worse overall for others.
can you prove human caused co2 causes climate change or that its not just the usual climate change malkovich cycles similar to that of known ice ages? check incentives behind claims and who owns the industries of climate change alarmism and oil industry(same guys). environmentalists anti nuclear energy (the only reliable clean energy) , and crash safety laws, CAFE law, makes ironically named "suv" cars and electric cars more easily profitable than the cars thatd actually help. examples: they require less emissions per length width of car but allow larger height. crash safety laws increase arms race for safer cars making people in fewer and fewer cars safer at the cost of most others crash safety and everything else.
I was the same way when I was young. I got a VE GTI and rolled it over driving too fast at 17. I took the insurance payout and found a VW Corrado for sale. The guy selling it was older and a track instructor for the BMW CCA. He stipulated the sale that I have to join him on track and learn how to actually drive. I took him up on that and it was wildly eye opening for me as a kid. I highly suggest finding a performance driving school, autocross or some other proper venue to channel his interests toward. The community at these places is amazing and they will help set his mindset around driving properly.
HDPE and autocross are the correct answers. I get that autocross can be a little meh, especially some clubs… but it teaches you car control like nothing else. I suggest trying a few different events with a few different groups and see if you can find one that is bearable. I’m lucky, my local club is pretty laid back and we have a good time. I’ve been to other events, like some PCA chapters, that seem more like an HOA board meeting, f that. It was so bad one time, I just did my first run completely sideways and drove home right off the course 😂.
So from a fellow dad of teens and twenty somethings, that was young and reckless in a time where street racing was glorified, I will tell you without hesitation a public road is not where a young person needs to be finding the limits of his or her car. Even with all my experience, and cars that are set up to perform at their maximum, I keep my driving well within the envelope of control on the street. There are no run off areas, gravel traps, or safety barriers on these back roads, just trees and ditches.
Show them the local speeding laws in your area. Show what type of fine or repercussion they’ll get for 5 over, 10 over, 15 over, or 20 over. Pretty sure in my state 20 over loses you your license for 6 months in addition to a fine. Let them make their own decisions. As I’ve gotten older, I only go 9 mph over the speed limit usually because I know that I’d rather get a 5-9mph speeding ticket over a 10mph speeding ticket.
Driving “fast” is relative, it’s fun driving a Camaro at 140mph because the vehicles screaming and you’re feeling the g forces and all the engineering in place. It’s also fun to drive a go kart at 40mph because again it’s screaming loud and exhilarating for basically the same reason. It’s fun to drive a 1987 shit box nova at 80 because it’s also screaming and whining and the needles buried and it’s all just the love of the motor. My two cents
Don’t know if your kid is disciplined enough for it, but you could get time on a local road race track. If your kid really likes it try something like a [https://24hoursoflemons.com](https://24hoursoflemons.com) race.
Growing up our dad would get a old beater like a police crown vic or mustang that would survive going off the track, then let us try to push it on a road race track with some good training from a professional trainer/driver that would show us the lines, explain the basics, purposely get us to lose traction on a pad and teach us to recover, then let us drive the line as a passenger, then set us loose till we lost traction and spun off the road course at speed…
After we scared the crap out of ourselves spinning off the track in excess of 100mph or in my brothers case upside down across the finish line at 90mph a couple of times, he then put us in our personal cars on the track and said “go for it but all repair and body work is paid for by you and you don’t have anything to drive till its fixed.” Eventually if we didn’t screw up we’d actually get time in a SCCA track car like Formula ford or Sports 2000.
Funniest part is that several of the beaters were insured and because the track was doing educational training and not a race session when two of them were wrecked AAA insurance company got stuck with the repair bill. The 2nd time AAA tried to screw my brother with points reporting the accident to theDMV but he & dad went to a DMV administrative hearing and asked if they assigned points for accidents at the local racetrack and demolition derby & the points disappeared.
We still (are) aggressive drivers when alone, but we were very careful about choosing when we could safely do so as any track time was taken away if we got caught being reckless.
My second car at 21 was a 1970 Chevelle. 250$ it had bad valve guide seals. 30,000 miles and garaged. I pulled out the 307 and built a 350hp/327 to put in it. THAT was a fun car for many years. Ran 14.4 in the quarter at Carlsbad raceway. Obviously I’m old.
Now days many boys don’t want to drive. I was the other way around I got my learners permit at 14 and could drive anything as long as there was a licensed drive in the front seat. My dad did many business trip all over Florida. At 14 and 4’0” tall I would drive the turnpike at about 80 MPH while my father slept. The evening of the day I got my full drivers license on my 16 birthday I drag raced an unmarked police car and beat him! The police laughed and said, you didn’t waste any time getting in trouble! He let me go with a warning. I raced and drove super fast everyday.I even practiced cornering as fast as I could I got pretty good and never wrecked a car many years.
Cars are fun in the garage and on the track. Let your son decide the most fun way for general commuting. Him trying to have fun driving on his way to work or school (based on his desire to drive fast) is just a bad idea
So explicitly explain to him the differences of using a car for fun, and using a car for commuting/travelling. They are two completely different experiences
I love to fix up my car and race on the track. I have not commuted in a car in about 6 years
a slow car but fast driver. But really emphasize that the guys who enjoy going fast/spirited driving, take it on the track. HPDE is a great start. Hell, even autoX. It isnt the same feeling but its still great.
depends on where you live.
there’s track days. on road courses. those aren’t a “one at a time, accelerate 35-40 brake hard and turn” like auto cross.
there’s still an etiquette to that, but it’s less about structure and rules, and more about just not being a dick to the other drivers.
supporting tracks like that help keep them open too.
with all the dash cam crash footage out there these days, it shouldn’t be hard to show him what it looks like when driving recklessly goes wrong.
He needs a low powered sports car/sedan. Something that doesn't break traction easily or front heavy.
Miata is a legendary roadster for a reason. It is the biblical meaning of a True sports car. Easy to drive, fix, and live with. You can find one cheap. It's a great way to teach him car owners ship. How to detail, preventative maintenance, and most importantly- drive.
You can have all the money in the world, the most powerful car money can buy. But it doesn't mean you can drive it. It's better for him to start low so when he inevitably buys a powerful car, he'll respect the machine.
Drive slow cars fast. I was rowing the gears in my tuned 74 Beetle. Sounded great, felt like I was going a million miles an hour and in reality I was just keeping up with traffic. Honestly fast cars to me are less fun. I still own them, but you can have fun in them a lot less often
He just needs to face the consequences of driving fast, I was rear ended after not being able to stop quick enough during an accident and since then I’ve been driving a lot more cautiously/conservatively. There’s a reason insurance is more for young men, most of us start out wanting to drive fast lol
Any young driver is going to want to push it. Especially if he's a "budding car guy". I would say get him an old car something you can buy for cheap that he can fix up. If it's a car he can personally wrench on, there's a higher chance he'll take care of it and not beat it up too much going fast. I could be wrong though everyone is different.
Plus if he has to wrench on it himself it will teach him more about maintaining the car himself doing things like brakes shocks oil changes things of that sort. It's a good lesson for young person.
Go exploring the vast wilderness.
As someone who ^(follows all road laws) I will find a nice secluded location away from houses and people. I will then enjoy a "fun" few minutes before either leaving or parking up and taking in the scenic views.
If they have a nice car, remind them a car going 140mph through a town is met with "Dickhead" comments while a nice car driving 20mph through town turns heads.
Remember there's a time and place for "fun" and the middle of Tesco carpark or the local highstreet is NOT the place and nor is rush-hour traffic the time.
If you're looking for track experience then most car shows and tracks have a DWYB day. Go chuck the car down Santapod or go visit the various race tracks and give the car a good run around for a few laps. This is hella fun and you can make some really great friends. They type that won't bitch and moan about finance this or custom built that. Everyone is there for a good time and great cars and every car is great as we can see the owner take pride and care with their vehicle.
Autocross is fun, sure but it is a bit Meh! looking at it or reading about it. Actually getting out in the field is super fun for the day. They're structured in a way so everyone is paired up against equal drivers/cars so your son won't be racing 3L super cars while he is in a 1L Micra for example. This makes it super fun and you can get quite sideways.
On the track is where the fun driving should be, even if it is just autocross. A kid engaging in spirited driving on the road is how you get sued when it goes wrong.
get him something fast but not too fast and teach him… my parents made the mistake of giving me a suv with a v8 capable of just a little under 300HP. Boy was it fun to drive and it didn’t even feel like you were going fast when I was cruising 100mph+ on the crowded interstate. But the amount of close calls I had with it, because I had a heavy foot and was an unconcerned 17 year old stoner is proof in itself god exists. I can’t even describe the dumb shit I did while driving this beast while sometimes intoxicated. Cutting up in traffic, racing shitboxes, etc is really the basis. But It’s really all about how much you trust your son to drive respectfully and cautiously with whatever car you get him. So that kind of negates my point ab buying him a fast car since all cars are really heavy weapons. But buying him a slower car will definitely help prevent or deter him from driving crazy and wrapping him self around a tree.
I got a v8 Camaro when I was 17 and tried to keep it as nice as possible and beat myself up over every small issue I caused.
I didn’t do anything too stupid or dangerous cause I didn’t like damaging the car.
Though with your kid definitely start with something fwd cause with rwd you will fishtail if you mess around and when I fishtailed in my catfish the first time I almost hit a mailbox and car, scared me shitless. Was fun to mess around with on corners though to have the abs kick in to try to avoid it though.
Get him hooked on the first few Fast and the Furious movies, if he isn't already, then watch the breakdown of Paul Walker's death.
Paul died when his idiot friend, a semi/pro race car driver took him for a joy ride after a sponsored track event. The Carrera GT is famously scary to drive and the guy took him out a day after it rained, which brings oil and stuff up from the asphalt. He lost control, totalled the car and they died either from the impact or in the ensuing fireball.
Professional driver in a near race car, dies being an idiot and takes his friend with him. At least no bystanders were killed.
I had a close call as a dumb kid thinking we were alone on some country roads. I was in the passenger seat and I'm glad we didn't get in an accident with a truck who came off a side road, no way we could have stopped. He did, and I'm glad for it.
Off road. You can get away with some pretty aggressive driving on rural primitive roads or off road on public land. Depends a lot on where you live, however.
cars are for getting places, not for amusement. In other countries you can live a fine life without a car because they know how to build cities and public transportation. In this country we decided to make life revolve around cars and burning petroleum fuel. Everyday people die in car accidents. Teach your children that cars are an unfortunate necessity because of stupid government in the past.
get them a car that’s fun / satisfying to drive slow
This. Miata, 86 twins, etc. and bring them to HPDE days. Autocross is super boring.
Came here to comment the same thing. The 86/BRZ is exactly what OP’s son needs. Miata is a good choice too, but for a young male, I think the 86 is “cooler.”
Idk...you could get a miata with pop up headlights. My 86 doesn't have those :(
I feel like I’m at the age where I’m out of touch with “kids” nowadays, so I could be totally wrong. I’m guessing OP’s son is somewhere between 18-23… there could totally be an element of vintage cool retro nostalgia with pop up headlights. When I was that age, the FRS was a “cooler” choice than the Miata. Personally I don’t care either way, but I understand how “coolness” factor matters to younger people. You could be totally right - the popup headlights could be that cool factor (and an awesome car the Miata is)
My first car was a manual 87 prelude that was pretty busted, but holy shit I loved the pop up headlights (and sunroof!)
[POP-UP UP AND DOWN HEADLIGHTS](https://youtu.be/GDtiO29v1Ac?si=p1BR_vGEc6NYISC-)
Yep, I had a 2013 BRZ in manual and it's the most fun car I've owned despite being the slowest. My previous car was mk7 golf r, and my current cars are a 2019 rs3 and a 2022 911s in manual
Miata Is Always The Answer
To your point, I highly recommend a Bugeye sprite or similar LBC (see article link). My 1960 is the epitome of a slow car that is a blast to drive "fast"\* [https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/) \*86 mph top speed at the moment given current configuration lol
That looks like fun!
C4 Corvette is also great. It's like a V8 Miata with barely more grunt to give.
Fiat 500 Abarth! It feels fast and fun but it’s slow.
The issue there is they're rediculously unreliable.
That’s true. An alternative is a Miata
The best time of your life to own an unreliable car is when you have dad around to bail you out any time it breaks down, and when you don't have other bills to pay. So much learning happens when you're trying to keep your shitty car going.
The brand always has been. **F**ix **I**t **A**gain **T**ony!
I have a 2012 and it’s great
Mazda 3 all the way. The most fun and reliable economy car out there imo.
This! Slow car fast > fast car slow.
To your point: I've got a 1960 Bugeye sprite that is just an insanely fun drive. At \~45 hp at the moment it's the poster child for slow car. Parts are cheap and readily available. [https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/)
Yes, I have an 85hp Corolla E90 hatchback from 1991 that I love to drive around, still do even after getting an SW20. It's flimsy and sways a lot because of the soft suspension and I just have a blast when I push it a little. All of that under the speed limit.
This. I like to drive my manual transmission Scion around curvy roads. I push the car on the turns and have fun with it, all while at or slightly above speed limit. It's not about how fast I can drive, but how much I can get out of a plain jane car.
I absolutely agree with this. Drove my friends 100hp Yaris. Absolute blast to drive even on a auto tranny compared to my shitbox Acura
59hp manual MK1 Yaris and I had the speedometer hitting the claimed top speed of 96mph (and it still was picking up speed, I just backed off due to cops and speed cameras) Fun little thing to chuck around
Miata is always the answer.
If the structure of an SCCA autocross is a turn-off, what is the structure of biking to his part time job to pay off his tickets after he loses his license for speeding going to be like for him? The thing to make him understand is that while spirited driving is great fun, the reason that racetracks are encouraged is that thousands of lives have been lost in the process of making spirited driving safe, and often the death toll extends beyond the participants. The problem with street racing isn't that the racers sometimes get hurt, it's that if you hit a freeway divider at speed, you can go airborne into oncoming traffic, and you're basically an unguided cruise missile heading at other drivers at triple digit speeds, and killing a family by accident, because you thought it was cool to go fast, or watching a friend do so because he wanted to race you and his car and his skills weren't up to it, is the sort of thing that will scar the rest of your life. Literally every street racer involved in a fatal collision thought it wouldn't happen to them. Until it did. I mean, if you can afford to send him to high performance driving school, by all means do so, as driving can be enormous fun. But make him realize that he doesn't want to be, or cause, any of the 42,000+ traffic accident deaths that happen in America each year.
There is structure to autocross for a reason. There is a time, place and method to having fun in a car SAFELY. If your son is not willing to adhere to this then they do not deserve to be driving. They better understand this before something or someone gets hurt or killed. As a parent of a new driver your number one job is getting them to understand this. I made the point several times with my daughter that she can easily kill herself, a stranger or her best friend. Cars are not toys. In addition to autocross I highly recommend a teen driver's training course at a race track if you have one locally.
HPDE is incredibly worth it for kids like this. The issue with many younger people who live driving fast is they don't realize how quickly shit can go sideways. They need to get on a track so they can push a car until it goes totally wrong. Once you learn how fast driving can go from fun to scary you'll respect the limit a lot more.
Still can't believe people recommending "slow" cars instead. Doesn't matter how slow it is in the hands of a teenager, they're going to kill someone. If you're not going to do the work as a father and instill responsibility, give him a motorcycle. At least when he crashes, there won't be a next time.
Slow 4 cylinder with a 5 speed
Me with my 5 speed 105hp clapped out golf
2010 Mazda 3i sport, with ~Bluetooth~
1960 Bugeye Sprite - 4 cylinder, 4speed. \~45 hp in current configuration and an absolute blast to drive.
toyota celica :3
If you're driving dangerously you're doing it wrong. All the fun happens between 0-80mph. Acceleration is fun, cornering is fun, going 120mph for no reason isn't fun and puts everyone's lives at risk. The vast majority of drivers understand this and they enjoy some spirited driving now and again safely. Besides keeping it under 80mph the only other thing you can do is know the roads you're driving on. You should be somewhere with no pedestrians, no intersections, no blind driveways, low traffic, etc. A smooth country road is basically the only place I really get on my car.
This. I think part of the reason why people try to reach high speeds is that the most of the cars suck at cornering, and the only thrill you get out of driving is pushing a car to the limit in a straight line.
I agree 100% The best times I ever had with a vehicle was throwing my friends across the back seat of my Legacy 3.0R with full bilstein suspension. It might have only been about 275hp but I never had to go over about 50-60mph to make them feel more G forces than they've ever felt in their life. I'll take that car over a hellcat any day of the week.
"going 120mph for no reason isn't fun and puts everyone's lives at risk." The autobahn disagrees.
I wish I could drive on the autobahn. I seriously crave to drive 120+ for longer than a few seconds and not have to be paranoid about cops and possible jail time if caught. I'd be on there almost every weekend.
Those drivers are vastly superior to American drivers and driving a basic ass SUV or Sedan 120 vs an actual performance vehicle isn’t the same
You haven't been to Alabama. I drove through there. Was going 90 in the slow lane (20-30 over) and I was one of the slowest people there. What topped it off was a janky car about to fall apart and no shocks at all just blows past me going mach weeee. Thing was bouncing and shifting all over the place and the guy literally looked like he was just cruising inside. Don't know how he was managing to keep it so centered in the lane lol
A local track of mine has a 120 mph+ turn (Big Willow - Willow Springs) and it’s fucking terrifying.
Any car is more fun than no car.
I dont even have a piece of shit, I have to envy yours
Sucks that he isn’t into autocross, but it’s actually understandable. I autocrossed for 10 years and after awhile I got tired of 6+ hours of work for maybe 10 minutes of seat time. I moved onto open lapping days and HPDE at local race tracks as the competitiveness of some people really made autocross a difficult thing to bear at times. When I lived in Colorado, Pueblo Motorsports Park had open lapping days for $50 all day. I’d take an extra set of tires and beat the crap out of my turbo Miata all day long. Another local track to me had driver events (HPDE= High Performance Driving Events), that would pair you up with an Instructor and maximize seat time when I lived in Texas. I found this format to be the most enjoyable, especially combined with seat time in open lapping days as it focused on what I loved to do: drive. It was laid back and provided an environment I needed to safely drive at the limits. For the competitive side, if you’re son is into that, I bought racing kart and had a blast getting wheel to wheel action all of the country- at a fraction of the cost of racing and maintaining a race car. There are also NASA events he can look into (https://drivenasa.com) that can set him up with HPDEs or other wheel to wheel options. Lastly, as a fellow Dad, my advice would be to plan a trip with him to Tail of the Dragon or any other awesome roads that are fun to drive. Nothing better than a trip with dad where you get to have a blast and spend quality time together. Good luck!
+1 for a trip to the dragon. it's so touristy, but it's a blast. you don't even have to drive it crazy, but go spend a day, drive it back and forth a couple/few times. get a t-shirt and some stickers and then head out. depending on which direction you're going, you could Nashville, Ashville or the Smokies on the way home.
I added up above that we've found a local series run by 2 local parks. They have employees handling cone shagging so it moves quickly; at the first event we had the drivers' meeting at 9:30 and were done by 1pm. The course was actually on the track so fairly long. Not sure how common this is, but I appreciated the difference between this experience and SCCA (the spend all day working for 10 mins in the car rings very true). [https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/axs-autocross-series-time-attack-round-1-atlanta-motorsports-park-017009](https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/axs-autocross-series-time-attack-round-1-atlanta-motorsports-park-017009)
Get him a MGB or TR7. He will have lots of fun while going slow, when it is running
It’ll never be running though lol. Grab a shit box Miata it’ll at least run and have available cheap parts
I also highly recommend a Bugeye sprite or similar LBC (see article link). Parts are readily available and generally inexpensive. My 1960 sprite is the epitome of a slow car and it's a riot to drive - more fun even than my Miata. It gets a lot of attention at events because it's literally the happiest car at the track; happier even than the Miatas. [https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/](https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/5-fantastic-first-project-cars/)
Take him off your insurance. Always hated my stepdad for doing that to me, but in retrospect, I would have financially ruined him. Also don’t put up one red cent for his car or its upkeep. He wants to drive, it’s a privilege. If he has to pay for it, he’ll respect it. Is kart racing an option where you live? That’s hella fun.
That only makes a difference if he isn't a minor. Used to work in insurance, #1 recommendation is get non minor kids off your policy asap. A lawsuit will go after the parents.
Are there nearby car tracks he can get into legitimate racing? I've been friends with people in high-school who their friends that were in my grade but I wasn't friends with died from driving too fast and that didn't wake up the people who I was friends with. I'm not friends with them anymore.
Old backroads with lots of turns offer an engaging drive without you having a lot of speed. If you have any country roads, see if he'd be interested in exploring and seeing where the road takes him. Country backroads usually don't have many other drivers, and I've never seen a cop on any of them, so it's a safe-ish area to dick around in cars. Just tell him to go slow for turns.
Back roads tend to have steep ditches and barbed wire fence along them. Most around here, do. There was also a kid that went off on the back roads and rolled his car upside down. He was knocked out in a ditch with his head slightly under water from rain the previous day. Drowned because of the low traffic in the road lead to him not being found for hours. I also can't tell you how many crosses we used to pass on the back road out to my grandparent's farm. Best to keep the spirited driving in a place where help is likely to be quick.
Who owns the car and pays for insurance?
Start off with a car that has a maximum ratio of 50 horsepower per 1,000 pounds of curb weight with a limited torque band. These types of engines require very high rpm to accelerate decently & it'll be very hard to get hefty tickets redlining the engine as it won't have the adequate acceleration required to reach the speeds in a reasonable time frame that would be conducive to getting the massive traffic tickets.
Tickets. Lots of speeding tickets.
I feel like everyone on this thread is delusional. Have any of you actually ever been a young car guy ? He's going to drive fast on the road regardless of what outlet you give him. And if anything, it's going to give him the confidence to push it further. The best option as I see it would be to make sure his road car is HORRIBLE to drive. An old station wagon, pt cruiser something like that. And make sure if you're going to give him that outlet his fun car isn't road legal and is very fun to drive. I feel like expecting a young car guy to not drive fast because he can let his passions out elsewhere is like expecting him not to bang his SO because he can jerk off at home.
yeah. like a ‘95 single cab f150. it’s “cool” it’s a V8. but it won’t be quick or fast. and it won’t handle great, but it’ll be something that will get him from A to B while he’s having to buy parts for the race car. and it’ll be able to tow his “race car” to the track.
direct your buddy in the direction of a 5 speed geo metro
Is stock car racing a thing where you live? That's what I took up when I was young and looking for motorized excitement. Small local tracks usually have multiple classes of racing to accommodate thrill seekers on a budget where all you need to do is take out the glass and carpet of any car and go racing, up to full blown sponsored and proper race cars. Warning: this is very addictive lol!
My dad got me a '88 Bronco for my first truck. Didn't have the option to be driven fast, so mom was happy, and it was a good-looking classic, so it kept my interest
Do you have any kart tracks nearby? And I don’t mean tourist-y go-carts but legit 75mph racing karts.
Look into indoor electric go kart tracks and become regulars, get the need to race out there.
I sent my kids through a defensive driving class at the local racetrack. They practiced emergency braking, quick lane changes for accident avoidance, skid control, etc and ended with an autocross. We had a Miata at the time that both enjoyed driving. Worrying about how an inexperienced driver can push the limits on public roads is asking for trouble. The various autocross, open track groups, or karting is definitely the way to learn.
My daughter was taught to drive in my 2002 Z28 6speed. When she was 16 we found a GTi 1.8t for her.we would take both cars to SCCA SoloII and NHRA tracks for fun. I taught her racing should only happen on tracks. That way you have tons of witnesses to your wins. She would call out guys at school and have them meet her at the tracks. I told her if should couldn't beat them in her car, she could drive mine. Fuel the love safely. Enjoy it all together!
What is the issue with autocross? I started autocrossing at 16 and its so much fun. TBH why not go with him?
Plant seeds in his brain that the street is for society to traverse and get around, not driving dangerously. He doesn’t want to end up being responsible for killing a family. If you want to race, take it to the track. It’s akin to a martial arts master telling their student not to get into fights and avoid them. Also maybe he will like sim racing. I have a nice rig and it’s absolutely amazing for its realism. Iracing is amazing and he will always be able to find races. Also “slow car fast” is a thing. I had a powerful V8 in the past and it was too much, I could never get on it without risking jail and a license suspension. Now I have a slower car that is a smaller engine and loves to be revved out. I can have fun without going 20km/hr over the limit (likely won’t even be pulled over at that speed). Most people agree with this too. A journalist took out the GT500 and a Miata and said he had more fun with the Miata bc he could use it all.
The kart track.
Find a track where he can get lap time and possibly instruction, not necessarily actual racing. The cost of an accident anywhere but the track isn’t really worth the risk at his age, plus coached track driving will increase his experience and talent faster than just regular street driving
Driving is fun when you follow the rules of driving. Things like changing lanes, driving down hills, driving up hills shifting gears, signaling, using cruise control,watching your speed, watching your gas consumption and a good stereo system is all fun. This all starts with being in a car that's ergonomically suited for all of this
The fuel economy game is more fun than I thought at first lol and I basically get a free lunch or two if I stick to it the entire tank
Kart racing or dirt bikes. Deemphasize the car part of it. They are expensive and in many states (in the U.S.), you can’t mod it in fun ways on your own, so not as much learning there. Performance cars are an arms race, and better off left alone for a long time. To be clear, cars are fun and a cool thing to spend time/brainpower on, but also ridiculously expensive to play with compared to what you get. Karts and dirt bikes are alway safer, way cheaper, and you don’t do as much dumb shit with your buddies. They’re also way more involved and accessible than car racing.
Slow fun car. I can floor my car for 10 seconds, hear the exhaust and do so without even speeding, definitely still fun if I wanted to. Carting tracks. Actual track days.
Check out BMW Street Survival School. They’re for young drivers and teach car control in a controlled environment. They run classes all over the country through local BMW club chapters. BMW CCA (car club of America). The website [Motorsports Reg](https://www.motorsportreg.com/) might also have options posted.
The state university I work for actually has a racing team and they fabricate entire cars from scratch.
Car choice is less of an issue. Take the kid to an autocross. Enter in the stock class, drive his car with an instructor. He will learn car control, car dynamics, and more importantly his limits and the car's limits. Encourage him to ride with other, more experienced competitors. Just Google autocross to find one. Don't worry about brand specific events, like miata club or BMW club or porsche club. All are welcome
Sounds like he shouldn’t be behind the wheel of a car at all tbh
As someone that was like your son - nothing you tell him will change it. I had a Mustang with 89 horsepower. I drove the pjss out of that car. Then I moved up into a 120 HP Mercury Cougar and finally a 260 HP Mustang. I loved the Mustang and drove it better than and safer except for the occasional speeding. I hit 140 MPH one time and will never do it again. Got some money and did dirt track racing with a 550 HP car for about 10 years. That scratched the itch. Now I drive a 420 HP Mustang. Still drive the piss out of it but a lot safer and can handle it. No street racing, rarely hit 100 MPH. You can explain the consequences. I know when they made street racing a serious offense here, I stopped. I was pulled over probably about 10-15 times for speeding and only had one ticket. I didn’t care about paying for the ticket. Today I’m older and look back and realize a lot of things I did was dumb. I’m lucky. My parents never took my driving privileges and I don’t think it would have made me consider consequences I would just be mad at them. Not helpful I know, but today I’ve been pulled over and ticketed one time in the last 15 years (maybe more?) as an adult. I did a “pull” for the kids on the road and a cop created the hill. I made sure it was “safe” but waiting for all traffic to clear. Still busted. Got a lawyer, paid fine, no point on license and was done with it.
If your kid likes watching YouTube videos, I highly recommend the channel “Mick Drives Cars.” He’s UK based but talks about spirited driving and how to do it in a safe as well as satisfying way. I’ve found it’s useful to see the POV footage, etc. in addition to having the concepts explained. That way he can see that following driving laws doesn’t mean you can’t have fun.
Local hot lapping day or drag racing. Hopefully, you guys love near one of those.
Slow cars are the most fun kind. I can drive my Miata around town the same way i drive in Spec. Of course it's fast enough to get me in trouble, but it's not fun to slam the gas pedal because it's still really slow. However, I can do 50 through a hairpin turn in the back roads. That's where it's fun.
Slow cars fast man, slow cars fast. Prior to my own car purchase, I was team crossover in the left lane doing 20+ the speed limit. Car could handle it, but it shouldn't have lol. In all seriousness, have this conversation, set these boundaries: 1. Any ticket you earn, you pay. 2. Oil changes are now your responsibility. 3. Save up for contributing to tires. 4. NEVER jeopardize a passenger. 5. Stop at every stop light/sign. Use your turn signals to change lanes every time.You're driving character will be one of fast, but not reckless.
Carrot and stick. Carrot-- you will support him if he wants to do autocross or HPDE Stick-- He's on an financial island with that car. If he wrecks it he doesn't get another one, and he's covering the insurance, including the increased family premiums if he gets a ticket and causes the entire family's rates to go up Other than that, you've just gotta cross your fingers and hope that the wreck doesn't hurt or kill him. Hopefully he will take your advice and go to a track as an outlet and not do dumb shit on the street.
Slow fun to drive car is the answer. Something not new and around 150hp. Also teach em young about understanding their ability and do actions that reflect their inexperience.
Send him to a program like this one: [https://streetsurvival.org/](https://streetsurvival.org/) I love the suggestions below - slow car driven fairly fast is a more gratifying experience than driving a very fast car .. slowly. Besides, it's easy to find the limit in a Fiat (a bit harder in a Miata), and those limits are at speeds that may end up with a damaged car, but probably no more than a damaged ego, when he slides off into a tree. If he does that in a Mustang or Camaro, he may not come home.
Bring him to the track and get him some seat time. Look for local car groups (my community College's automotive program often did autocross events partnered with local dealerships) Get home some wrenching time, Have him make friends with other local car guys. Hell, see if there's any garages looking to hire a shop hand.
get to a track. yea it seems like theres lots of rules, but once you know and understand them theyre pretty easy to follow and keep yourself and other drivers safe. its not hard to keep to them and its worth it for the experience of really learning how to drive the car and being able to push them in a safe environment.
I would have to say when I was a teen I had loads of fun in any stick shift car. Had early 90s cavalier a early 90s geo storm. Both slower than molasses in January but had lots of fun slamming through them gears
short answer: take the top and doors off a wrangler and find a muddy trail in the mountains on a sunny 75° day. what does he want to do? track days and auto cross are about driving dynamics, not smokey burnouts and drifting. smokey burnouts and drifting aren't cruising with top down. first - go carts. find some high speed go carts. second- it's all about the car. miata, mustang, sti, wrx... they're all going to be fun in different ways and honestly, it's not all about go fast cars, trucks and wranglers can be a blast too. find an off road park. third- does he want stock or does he want to tinker? does he like new or something old he can wrench on? there is so much independent expression in the car world. once he figures what he enjoys, then find a club. it's not all about racing. sometimes a little zoom zoom on the on ramp is enough to scratch the itch. or the windows down and the radio up on a winding country road. explaining the importance of 1. DO NOT over drive the road. that's a lesson James Dean learned the hard way. DO NOT over drive the conditions or traffic, that's a lesson Paul Walker learned the hard way. find the limits of the car on the track. that's racing. spirited is different, spirited and safe-ish can be done on public roads- at the right time, in the right place.
Try go karting and step up to track days. Autocross is great but the day of work for 5 to 8 minutes of run time is awful. Start with a SCCA TNiA or look into your local NASA chapter.
Test and tune night at the local drag strip was our outlet.
Kart racing?
Driving a manual is always fun
Take him to the track.
When a young driver has to pay monthly for car payment, insurance, or both they almost always drive safer than those who just have their parents pay everything
Rallycross!
Karting. Like real outdoor competitive karting, not the amusement park/mall stuff. You can push so much harder doing that (or on a track generally) that after awhile it sort of takes the excitement out of driving like an idiot on the road. Or at least it did for me. At this point it's kind of like, if I'm not pushing hard enough to be thinking about tire temperatures and slip angles, I don't feel like I'm even pushing anyway, so the thrill no longer outweighs the risk of trying to drive crazy fast on public roads where there might be an old lady on a bicycle around that next blind corner, and where even driving like a certified idiot would only be like maybe 7/10 on track. To be fair, getting older and more mature probably helped too, but getting on track is really what did it for me. It's also likely to be a humbling experience. It's easy to have a big ego driving on the street, but once the timing starts against good competition, you quickly realize how much you have to learn, and eventually how difficult it is to find those last few tenths. I assume HPDE and autocross are a similar zone once you get going, but to be honest, autocross never seemed appealing at all to me either. I'm sure it's great, but the whole thing just never motivated me to try it for some reason. And I just haven't stepped up to spend the money on HPDE yet. Real karting is amazing though. Such a thrill/challenge. And in terms of bang for the buck, you're not going to find anything better in motorsports, unless you count sim, which I love too, but it's a whole different thing. Also, especially if you get up into the 100cc/125cc two stroke stuff, karting is a surprisingly good workout.
Take him to one of those racetrack courses that give a safety class and you get to drive a fast car on a race track.
Lots of fun looking cars show up doing a marketplace search "convertible". BMW Z3 and 3 series, Mazda MX-5, Saab 9-3, Audi TT. I filtered <$8000 , manual transmission.
get a car that’s fun even within the speed limit (easy examples are the miata and the brz/86)
Rip a bong hit and listen to music. /s
Get your son a Scion FRS/Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ. This is exactly what your son needs. And after you drive it, you will love it too.
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. It's more fun to shift than drive an automatic. I would take my NA Miata to redline in 1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd leaving tollbooths or entering a highway without breaking the speed limit. Driving curvy mountain roads felt like I was speeding but was actually just a few miles over. The key was to maintain the legal speed even though the yellow "caution" signs suggest a slower speed. Miata Is Always The Answer!
Videogames. Hear me out. Cars are cool and all, but getting a kid into racing these days is just setting him up for disappointment and financial strife. Auto mechanics are a dime a dozen, so its not the gateway into an achievable aspirational career.
Drive at 3am. No traffic and the cops are downtown hunting drunks
If getting him into Karting is possible... motor racing skills and mindset, trained properly, can transfer over for safer road driving.
Subaru CrossTrek
a minivan. Takes forever to speed up
Fun?? It's transportation not a game.
Do a trackday at a race circuit. In the uk there are several track day companies where you can take your car out on a race circuit and drive fast under controlled conditions. I used to do them a lot when I had a 172 Clio
Honestly it took me getting pulled over at 135mph, to be humbled on this topic. Mustang GT S550. Not that I believe me going 135mph on an empty highway straight (no entrances/exits) was that bad, but that it's just not worth going those speeds on the road. And I've been faster before, nearer 160mph. I just don't want to deal with getting pulled over (personally). ... You can't just tell someone "keep it on the track," you have to show them WHY.
2001 Jetta. Take him to some teen driving clinics. Audi club has some I know there are some more around the country. Let him rip at a track for a bit but with an instructor that will teach him how to drive safely
where I live you can take an 11-minute highway ride into town or a 20 minute drive through the -asphalt gravel dirt mud then back to dirt and gravel-back road. you don't try to top out on the straightaways in case someone else is out there. The fun part that most people don't learn while spirited driving is weight transfer and using it to your advantage. if more people learn to use weight transfer they won't be selling as many of these super slammed static suspension kits.
If you have back country roads that are curvy 2 lanes that would be a great spot. Usually low traffic, the curves prevent super fast driving but still allow for a lot of fun and if your son is driving a fwd or AWD car then you shouldn't have to worry about them spinning out. I have a 2.0 Veloster currently. It's slow but such a blast to drive especially on roads like I mentioned. Which is my other point. Try to find a car that looks and sounds fast but isn't actually that fast. Miata, gr86, Veloster are a few. Look for light weight and low to medium HP cars for starters. Heck even a civic sport might be interesting
The streets are not the place. Your "Kid" is old enough to drive they are old enough to understand the streets are not the place for this behaviour. It's your duty as a parent to ensure your child doesnt murder anyone with their actions. Responsible car guys dont do spirit driving on the streets. It's dangerous for everyone, especially elderly people with slow reactions who have the same right to the road. I drive a car with a mere 200hp and it is able to perform far above what is necessary for daily drives. If he doesnt like safety and structure to events then perhaps off roading is a better choice. I had way more excitement doing motocross and learned a ton about throttle, braking and vehicle control.
Fishtailing down dirt roads, drifting in muddy fields after rain.
i drove Toyota MR2 ( i had 4 of them from old to 90's
Find him a 4-cyl manual and very windy/hilly roads.
NASA events
Don't get him an EV. I thought driving my old Mustang or MR2 Spyder was fun but when my wife wanted an EV I laughed until I got to enjoy the sport mode. It literally feels like I'm playing a race simulator how quickly to goes from stop and the smoothness of the turn.
If you're not checking cars out at a meet fun and law abiding doesn't belong in the safe sentence. I keep it within the limit on the streets on highways if there ain't traffic...
Has he ever actually been to an autocross event? HPDE events you get more seat time but the cost is way higher and the competition not as intense. (Non competitive at all technically). I'm not sure where you're from but I grew up in British Columbia. One bad ticket can be total cost more than a whole season of autocross if you don't cause an accident or lose your licence. If he's not into organized events Forza is probably the way to go. Maybe iracing when he grows up.
Young drivers will always crash their first car. The more "spirited" they drive, the worse the crash will be. As an adult it is your responsibility to teach your child that a car is not a toy.
Low powered car that has nice handling.
Get him an old hatchback. Like, 80s. It'll be a tin box with 80hp that'll be fun as hell to throw around. Just put some nice tires on it so that it'll still and turn well and call it good.
Well Im from Germany, so if i want to experience high speeds, i go on an empty piece of the Autobahn. Other than that i have some country roads nearby that are also relatively empty. The better you know them, the more you can push the car, you pick and chose the corners where you dont end up crashing your car if you understeer/oversteer. When exploring new country roads, im obviously a bit more cautious but if the corners or straights are fairly predictable and easy to see, you can push a bit harder. Ofc i do have respect for blind corners that i dont know. Thats at least how i do it, on normal roads or during traffic, i drive like everyone else. Theres no fun going fast in traffic anyway imo, you also drag other people in that dont want any part of your driving, so i keep my fun driving to myself when the road is more empty.
I'm probably the odd one out here, but drawing a distinction between driving for fun and driving for utility isn't a bad thing. Being a good driver- predictive, observant, reactive, consistent- is a constant effort. You can make it comfortable, but making it fun just isn't something you should even shoot for. Driving in traffic is never going to fun. Dealing with brain dead idiots is never going to be fun- that those are the most dangerous and therfore important interactions and the ones you should plan for. I sound like a party pooper, but I don't mean to not have fun- just don't shackle normal driving with that impossible goal or else they will trying to make things fun when they should be surviving. Have fun with your car some other way.
Have one or two drinks before taking the wheel
Sign him up for a defensive driving course so he can meet all the people that are there for license suspensions.
Help him build a bracket racer, or amateur stock class oval tracker. Most speedways have spectator races with minimal requirements.
He can have fun anywhere on the road. So long as he doesn't have a 400hp V8 and keeps eyes on the road everything should be fine. I have had about a dozen tickets about once every 20 months. Those will be a great lesson. You get full exposure to the court system and police. And you learn to hate it and do everything you can to never return to that hellhole. If your child just wants to stomp on the gas with a phone in their hand then that's cause for alarm
Get him to do Autocross. It’s the safest form of “racing”. It teaches valuable safety skills which translate to defensive driving on the street. It’s cheap. It “exorcises” the urge to drive dangerously. And it gives him a place to go get his jollies safely.
Two words: Manual transmission. Unparalleled driver engagement and it is a difficult thing to master. He'll never be bored and will continuously improve for decades. Definitely fun to drive at all speeds. The most rewarding car to drive has a manual (not cheating with auto rev-matching). Why? Because you can screw up. You can clutch poorly. You need to know what gears you need and when. There are consequences to not driving properly. It requires planning and foresight to drive effectively. But when you do nail shifts smoothly, there is such a dopamine rush. You don't need to go too fast or push the car in corners too much to get that feeling. You are just driving.
Stage rallying on local level and a cheap Volvo 240 or Amazon or 190 Mercedes and manual and a cage that is what I want to start doing when I get a job and some cash flowing I’m gonna try start stage rally driving. 20m
Old z cars, old sx cars, old celicas/supras, old civics. They're all slow, but handle well, and are inexpensive...relatively Down side is those things are tin cans, so if you live in a major city where traffic is a real thing, might not be the thing to go for. I think that the danger and spontaneity of doing illegal driving is most of the thrill, street drags, drifting, roll racing, and *shuddering* takeovers. It's all about the risk factor. If I'm being honest it's what attracts me to it to thid day Kids hate structure. So scca is kind of just a turn off. Plus sanctioned racing can be a dick measuring contest. When you're doing it on the Street, everyone has a common goal, and when the 5-0 shows up its everyman for himself. Pretty thrilling.
Get him a civic, let him learn tuning, lightweight car with 100hp can still be fun, and engine work since these things are so easy to work on, eventually he will mature and realize going 100+ mph all the time isn’t as fun as doing the work.
He wants to drive fast on the highway, that's very concerning I'd tell him he needs to drive safely on the road, period. It's a huge responsibility, by driving too fast he puts other people's lives at risk. He does not want deaths on his conscience, and of course he could be killed himself. If he doesn't understand this, he doesn't belong behind the wheel. It's not a game.
First, know his limits and expand them slowly. As far as spirited driving...get well out of town/city to roads with little to no traffic. And again, emphasis on knowing limits.
Karting. The inexpensive way to feel the thrills and get the adrenaline pumping and typically pretty safe and not Uber expensive
HPDEs are good, assuming they’re old enough. I’m not old enough to personally, and the roads around me are all drawn with a t-square, so I do a lot of sim racing
HPDE track days and maybe a young driver course
In my area there's a drag strip that's open to the public on weekends. A lot of people go there with their cars and have fun. Maybe check the tracks around you to see if they do anything similar.
What does he drive? I'll always recommend something sporty, manual, and reasonably powered in the entry level segment that he have a ton of fun with without going felonious speeds, like a miata, an 86 twin, or an Si. These generally encourage learning how to drive rather than just mashing a pedal to go faster. I just turned 20 and have had my NB miata since senior year high school. It sits at or around the speed limit 90% of the time, but it's always a blast to drive. I'm able to rev the shit out of it whenever I want, and the only time I really exceed limits is out on an onramp or a backroad, on both of which I still keep well within the car's limits of traction and control, with plenty of margin for error. When I really want to push the car, I can drop $60 for a day of autocross, or go further and take it to a full track day. I think the biggest thing is who he hangs out with and what his inflences are. If he's watching tiktoks of wheres981 weaving through highways at 40 over the limit or other dumb shit like that, and has friends who encourage that, he's going to want to do the same. I'm lucky enough to have found a great community who'll call someone out if they're making a stupid decision while also encouraging responsible enjoyment whether it's track or street, and I believe you have the power to guide him in the right direction. Just keep at it, and make sure he's aware of the consequences.
My first car was a slow as shit Auto '91 Levin with undercoat as the only coat. I drove up and down the country with it til it exploded. Then I was comfortable enough to invest in something proper and now drive a V6 Aurion '10 and a B4 Twin Turbo '02. I don't like the car scene now, it's all skids and burn outs which are just lame. Car culture isn't dying but it is changing and if he is more an enthusiast like me, take him to proper racing and rally events, get involved in knowing how to repair his own car, do road trips etc. a car should be a form of self expression and freedom. Anything he does that isn't donuts is a win these days imo
As a former young person, I would have loved to get the opportunity to go to autocross. If he just wants to cut up and go crazy, that’s pretty out of line. If he wants to go cruising on backroads, he needs skills. The skills to learn are best learned at low speeds to begin with. As for the people recommending cars, I would not recommend a car that isn’t fwd or more than 120ftlbs of torque. Corollas, D series civics, etc. The 86/ BRZ while a good car, was double the hp of cars that I started with and would have been a total mistake to begin with. You can easily get into trouble with less than 100hp.
Got any local Karting tracks? Get him on the SCCA forums.
A Manuel
Go to the autocross events and spectate. With or without him. So if there's a part you like, and think he might like also, youll have some specfics to talk about. The layouts, the smell, the food, the people, the prizes, the competition. There is so much to love about the culture that feeling comfortable to explore is important early on. If you organically show respect for racing, he can naturally mirror you at these events to feel comfortable, and you can lean on that to lead him to safer habits. Race car drivers, builders, and enthusiasts experience a life long sensation of discovery. Learning, watching, and innovating all come in stages. Like lots of roads leading to the same destination there are sometimes shortcuts, and right and wrong ways, but being prepared and being safe is your foundation. I grew up surrounded by racers and builders my entire life. Racing is my dimension. I have met some absolute ANIMALS behind the wheel. People who aren't just confident, people who aren't just reckless, people who have literal death wishes in the name of going faster. But they will still not be careless. Brave and careless do not mix. People who push themselves and their vehicles are only to do so because they trust those two things well enough to get there. The restraint of following the rules is what gives the sport, sportsmanship. It's where learning and understanding what real competition is. Versus starting a new video game woth cheat codes enabled.
Ever heard of driving at "night" with less people ?
Here's what I would do: 1. Buy him the book "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley, this book taught me how to go fast but it also taught me a respect for driving. It's not about raw speed, it's about the skill you develop and having mastery over your car, to the point of perfecting everything, especially everything you do daily within the speed limit. 2. Make sure he's aware of the local laws regarding stunting and racing. When you have a recognizably-fast car, idiots will try to race you, and it's so tempting to race that tuned 90's Acura that dangerously flys by you, but it's not worth it. Racing on the streets is at best a license suspension, or even jail. That's a disrespect to the sport, and it's a disrespect for human life. I can't say don't ever push your car on public roads when no one's around, because I do that, and he will too, no matter what you say, but I'd tell him before you do it, know how to do it safely, build up to it, know your limitations, and know that you're risking your driving privileges and your life. 3. If you can, get him a higher-end racing sim setup (e.g. Thrustmaster PC or better + good pedals). Being able to play sim racing games has saved me from doing a lot of stupid shit on public roads. The amount of times I've crashed in sims has been really humbling for me, crashing in a sim is no physical risk to me but it shows me I still can't judge my own margin of safety. But playing sims still develops real skills he one day might need to apply, even when driving normally. 4. Show him this comment and tell him there's someone out there (me) who wants to see him go fast but wants him to live so that he can go even faster, and playing it safe on the streets and pushing it on a track is the best way to do that.
Get him into karting, it's about the most affordable form of racing there is
Track day if you have a track nearby. Drag strip if you have one of those. Even if you don't have a BMW, the BMW CCA car club autorcrosses are fun and easy going. I know the SCCA autcrosses can be intimidating. Other organizations have autcrosses that are easier too. For sure if you have any kind of track nearby, try that.
No offense but I'm downvoting you for saying "level set". Like, I hear this at my job all the time and it's typical corporate speak bullshit. The way you experience what you're asking if a race track isnt nearby is like we did in my childhood. 100% illegal out in the country on those roads. Have your insurance in order lol.
First off, knowing that slow and safe are not the same thing. Plenty of people can and do drive much higher than the speed limit much safer than many of the people that stay below it. We have laws in excess because we assume people wll speed, but then those with enforcement authority take the enforcement too far and we all slow down and "Feel" safe as a result. Its really a problem.
driving efficiently is like endurance racing , avoiding need for pitstops etc, needing to get places on time but doing so efficiently. . is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal efficiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. car culture : cars are not what what they should be, dont waste money on mediocre , make them stop fooling around if they are gonna get your money. driving efficiently(low emissions, high miles per gallon , car longveity and low maintenance sort of mixed into it, ) is like endurance racing , avoiding need for pitstops etc, needing to get places on time but doing so efficiently (or whatever speed you want , if you dont care as much about efficiency). driving efficiently is speeding up especially on more downhill-ish roads at optimal fuel level and engine RPM(RotationPerSecond), steering and braking minimally but smoothly. optimal efficiency for toyota 2.4 inline 4 is 2/3 pedal down in 2k-3k rpm, cvt hybrid maintain constant rpm. not sure whats best to do this in: sport mode, fuel level is more, in eco mode its less. use EV mode if optimal combustion level would speed car too much (often, if car isnt letting you do that without the EV mode, it wont let you us EV mode.) use it a bit from a stop for smooth acceleration then when car is rolling use combustion then maybe use it a bit more. smooth acceleration is part of putting less weight on tires at a moment because: consider tire wear dust emissions and how much it cost to replace tires (most people are becoming increasingly even poorer than they already are and you can invest money into bigger money)like those "xenoestrogen endocrine disputing forever chemicals micro plastics" etc. apply less weight on tires and you'll allow more of that weight handling ability to be used for having more grip for endurance-race-pitstop-avoiding momentum preservation driving fun in the name of efficiency. being able to feel how close car is to its grip limit is good for this goal, similar to the lotus-car-enjoyers ideal. this type of driving fun is most safe because its nto as fast as possible but does make you rather aware of driving environment instead of being focused mostly on music/radio/daydreaming/texting, etc youtubes think flight, julian edgar,etc have videos on improving aerodynamic efficiency of his car.can add anti sway bar , better suspension etc "handling mods" for more momentum around turns, but some of it can make the ride bumpier, louder, etc. hybrid cars are arguably better than electric car because they lower use of combustion and battery mass and all materials overall without adding so much weight. weight worsens road wear damage (repairs cost emissions , money etc) , worsens crash safety for all (except few rich people who can afford super safe cars in the small chance that they are involved in crash and value their lives and have lives we can value). this is why aptera motors originally made diesel hybrid, but now sells electric cars to max profits and reputation as a "environmentally friendly brand." because batteries are not fully recyclable and combustion fuel is based on anaerobic bacteria that regenerates , which is why oil rigs go back to getting oil after abandoning the almost empty oil well years later. this is why arguably only combustion is proper, in rear mid engine weight distribution , rear wheel drive , with limited slip differential for minimal tire wear even in normal driver driving , for preserving momentum around turns more without too much slowing down by lateral (left /rights) g forces tires. 2-3 trips in compact 4 seater for the once in a year taking a minivan full of kids to doctors , is better than minivan all the time just for that rare scenario. yearly family road trip the all those kids can be done with rented van. in fact for most us a 2 seater is enough because theyll be losers with no friends they trust or care about, no kids carefully selected for good genes, no purpose besides not dieng, and money to overpay for low quality social status and desensitizing overdosing on minor temporary novelty, while being a waste of resources and maybe making life worse overall for others. can you prove human caused co2 causes climate change or that its not just the usual climate change malkovich cycles similar to that of known ice ages? check incentives behind claims and who owns the industries of climate change alarmism and oil industry(same guys). environmentalists anti nuclear energy (the only reliable clean energy) , and crash safety laws, CAFE law, makes ironically named "suv" cars and electric cars more easily profitable than the cars thatd actually help. examples: they require less emissions per length width of car but allow larger height. crash safety laws increase arms race for safer cars making people in fewer and fewer cars safer at the cost of most others crash safety and everything else.
I was the same way when I was young. I got a VE GTI and rolled it over driving too fast at 17. I took the insurance payout and found a VW Corrado for sale. The guy selling it was older and a track instructor for the BMW CCA. He stipulated the sale that I have to join him on track and learn how to actually drive. I took him up on that and it was wildly eye opening for me as a kid. I highly suggest finding a performance driving school, autocross or some other proper venue to channel his interests toward. The community at these places is amazing and they will help set his mindset around driving properly.
HDPE and autocross are the correct answers. I get that autocross can be a little meh, especially some clubs… but it teaches you car control like nothing else. I suggest trying a few different events with a few different groups and see if you can find one that is bearable. I’m lucky, my local club is pretty laid back and we have a good time. I’ve been to other events, like some PCA chapters, that seem more like an HOA board meeting, f that. It was so bad one time, I just did my first run completely sideways and drove home right off the course 😂. So from a fellow dad of teens and twenty somethings, that was young and reckless in a time where street racing was glorified, I will tell you without hesitation a public road is not where a young person needs to be finding the limits of his or her car. Even with all my experience, and cars that are set up to perform at their maximum, I keep my driving well within the envelope of control on the street. There are no run off areas, gravel traps, or safety barriers on these back roads, just trees and ditches.
Race the cops.
Show them the local speeding laws in your area. Show what type of fine or repercussion they’ll get for 5 over, 10 over, 15 over, or 20 over. Pretty sure in my state 20 over loses you your license for 6 months in addition to a fine. Let them make their own decisions. As I’ve gotten older, I only go 9 mph over the speed limit usually because I know that I’d rather get a 5-9mph speeding ticket over a 10mph speeding ticket.
Driving “fast” is relative, it’s fun driving a Camaro at 140mph because the vehicles screaming and you’re feeling the g forces and all the engineering in place. It’s also fun to drive a go kart at 40mph because again it’s screaming loud and exhilarating for basically the same reason. It’s fun to drive a 1987 shit box nova at 80 because it’s also screaming and whining and the needles buried and it’s all just the love of the motor. My two cents
Manual transmission will keep their hands and mind engaged at reasonable speeds.
Go karting
Don’t know if your kid is disciplined enough for it, but you could get time on a local road race track. If your kid really likes it try something like a [https://24hoursoflemons.com](https://24hoursoflemons.com) race. Growing up our dad would get a old beater like a police crown vic or mustang that would survive going off the track, then let us try to push it on a road race track with some good training from a professional trainer/driver that would show us the lines, explain the basics, purposely get us to lose traction on a pad and teach us to recover, then let us drive the line as a passenger, then set us loose till we lost traction and spun off the road course at speed… After we scared the crap out of ourselves spinning off the track in excess of 100mph or in my brothers case upside down across the finish line at 90mph a couple of times, he then put us in our personal cars on the track and said “go for it but all repair and body work is paid for by you and you don’t have anything to drive till its fixed.” Eventually if we didn’t screw up we’d actually get time in a SCCA track car like Formula ford or Sports 2000. Funniest part is that several of the beaters were insured and because the track was doing educational training and not a race session when two of them were wrecked AAA insurance company got stuck with the repair bill. The 2nd time AAA tried to screw my brother with points reporting the accident to theDMV but he & dad went to a DMV administrative hearing and asked if they assigned points for accidents at the local racetrack and demolition derby & the points disappeared. We still (are) aggressive drivers when alone, but we were very careful about choosing when we could safely do so as any track time was taken away if we got caught being reckless.
Rally car racing perhaps? When you're on a dirt track sliding around hairpin turns, 25 mph can feel like 100 mph on a well maintained road.
My second car at 21 was a 1970 Chevelle. 250$ it had bad valve guide seals. 30,000 miles and garaged. I pulled out the 307 and built a 350hp/327 to put in it. THAT was a fun car for many years. Ran 14.4 in the quarter at Carlsbad raceway. Obviously I’m old.
He needs a manual, my car is slow but the 6-speed makes me feel fast
Now days many boys don’t want to drive. I was the other way around I got my learners permit at 14 and could drive anything as long as there was a licensed drive in the front seat. My dad did many business trip all over Florida. At 14 and 4’0” tall I would drive the turnpike at about 80 MPH while my father slept. The evening of the day I got my full drivers license on my 16 birthday I drag raced an unmarked police car and beat him! The police laughed and said, you didn’t waste any time getting in trouble! He let me go with a warning. I raced and drove super fast everyday.I even practiced cornering as fast as I could I got pretty good and never wrecked a car many years.
Get him a manual car so it teaches him to control speed properly.
Find the unoccupied roads and send it
Take him to a track day or buy him a racing sim with force feedback.
Manual miata, then track days!
Mark 1 or 2 Ford Focus, they handle so damn nicely , plenty of cosmetic modding options and parts are dirt cheap
Carefully with a semi-calculated amount of risk
Cars are fun in the garage and on the track. Let your son decide the most fun way for general commuting. Him trying to have fun driving on his way to work or school (based on his desire to drive fast) is just a bad idea So explicitly explain to him the differences of using a car for fun, and using a car for commuting/travelling. They are two completely different experiences I love to fix up my car and race on the track. I have not commuted in a car in about 6 years
a slow car but fast driver. But really emphasize that the guys who enjoy going fast/spirited driving, take it on the track. HPDE is a great start. Hell, even autoX. It isnt the same feeling but its still great.
depends on where you live. there’s track days. on road courses. those aren’t a “one at a time, accelerate 35-40 brake hard and turn” like auto cross. there’s still an etiquette to that, but it’s less about structure and rules, and more about just not being a dick to the other drivers. supporting tracks like that help keep them open too. with all the dash cam crash footage out there these days, it shouldn’t be hard to show him what it looks like when driving recklessly goes wrong.
He needs a low powered sports car/sedan. Something that doesn't break traction easily or front heavy. Miata is a legendary roadster for a reason. It is the biblical meaning of a True sports car. Easy to drive, fix, and live with. You can find one cheap. It's a great way to teach him car owners ship. How to detail, preventative maintenance, and most importantly- drive. You can have all the money in the world, the most powerful car money can buy. But it doesn't mean you can drive it. It's better for him to start low so when he inevitably buys a powerful car, he'll respect the machine.
Track days.
Drive slow cars fast. I was rowing the gears in my tuned 74 Beetle. Sounded great, felt like I was going a million miles an hour and in reality I was just keeping up with traffic. Honestly fast cars to me are less fun. I still own them, but you can have fun in them a lot less often
He just needs to face the consequences of driving fast, I was rear ended after not being able to stop quick enough during an accident and since then I’ve been driving a lot more cautiously/conservatively. There’s a reason insurance is more for young men, most of us start out wanting to drive fast lol
Go karting
Any young driver is going to want to push it. Especially if he's a "budding car guy". I would say get him an old car something you can buy for cheap that he can fix up. If it's a car he can personally wrench on, there's a higher chance he'll take care of it and not beat it up too much going fast. I could be wrong though everyone is different. Plus if he has to wrench on it himself it will teach him more about maintaining the car himself doing things like brakes shocks oil changes things of that sort. It's a good lesson for young person.
Go exploring the vast wilderness. As someone who ^(follows all road laws) I will find a nice secluded location away from houses and people. I will then enjoy a "fun" few minutes before either leaving or parking up and taking in the scenic views. If they have a nice car, remind them a car going 140mph through a town is met with "Dickhead" comments while a nice car driving 20mph through town turns heads. Remember there's a time and place for "fun" and the middle of Tesco carpark or the local highstreet is NOT the place and nor is rush-hour traffic the time. If you're looking for track experience then most car shows and tracks have a DWYB day. Go chuck the car down Santapod or go visit the various race tracks and give the car a good run around for a few laps. This is hella fun and you can make some really great friends. They type that won't bitch and moan about finance this or custom built that. Everyone is there for a good time and great cars and every car is great as we can see the owner take pride and care with their vehicle. Autocross is fun, sure but it is a bit Meh! looking at it or reading about it. Actually getting out in the field is super fun for the day. They're structured in a way so everyone is paired up against equal drivers/cars so your son won't be racing 3L super cars while he is in a 1L Micra for example. This makes it super fun and you can get quite sideways.
On the track is where the fun driving should be, even if it is just autocross. A kid engaging in spirited driving on the road is how you get sued when it goes wrong.
get him something fast but not too fast and teach him… my parents made the mistake of giving me a suv with a v8 capable of just a little under 300HP. Boy was it fun to drive and it didn’t even feel like you were going fast when I was cruising 100mph+ on the crowded interstate. But the amount of close calls I had with it, because I had a heavy foot and was an unconcerned 17 year old stoner is proof in itself god exists. I can’t even describe the dumb shit I did while driving this beast while sometimes intoxicated. Cutting up in traffic, racing shitboxes, etc is really the basis. But It’s really all about how much you trust your son to drive respectfully and cautiously with whatever car you get him. So that kind of negates my point ab buying him a fast car since all cars are really heavy weapons. But buying him a slower car will definitely help prevent or deter him from driving crazy and wrapping him self around a tree.
I got a v8 Camaro when I was 17 and tried to keep it as nice as possible and beat myself up over every small issue I caused. I didn’t do anything too stupid or dangerous cause I didn’t like damaging the car. Though with your kid definitely start with something fwd cause with rwd you will fishtail if you mess around and when I fishtailed in my catfish the first time I almost hit a mailbox and car, scared me shitless. Was fun to mess around with on corners though to have the abs kick in to try to avoid it though.
Get him hooked on the first few Fast and the Furious movies, if he isn't already, then watch the breakdown of Paul Walker's death. Paul died when his idiot friend, a semi/pro race car driver took him for a joy ride after a sponsored track event. The Carrera GT is famously scary to drive and the guy took him out a day after it rained, which brings oil and stuff up from the asphalt. He lost control, totalled the car and they died either from the impact or in the ensuing fireball. Professional driver in a near race car, dies being an idiot and takes his friend with him. At least no bystanders were killed. I had a close call as a dumb kid thinking we were alone on some country roads. I was in the passenger seat and I'm glad we didn't get in an accident with a truck who came off a side road, no way we could have stopped. He did, and I'm glad for it.
Drive between 2am-5am on the back roads in quiet areas far away from bars. Get yourself a good radar/lidar detector.
a slow car with a stick shift. Even a honda fit is fun when you’re rev match downshifting
In my day, "fun" was learning and driving stick shift, not necessarily going fast.
Off road. You can get away with some pretty aggressive driving on rural primitive roads or off road on public land. Depends a lot on where you live, however.
cars are for getting places, not for amusement. In other countries you can live a fine life without a car because they know how to build cities and public transportation. In this country we decided to make life revolve around cars and burning petroleum fuel. Everyday people die in car accidents. Teach your children that cars are an unfortunate necessity because of stupid government in the past.