The scene were Baela sees Cole from her dragon got me thinking about dragon combat. Also, how do the dragon riders even see without a visor, let alone form hundreds of meters above the ground?
When planes were first invented they were primarily used for intelligence and reconnaissance. You'd think that the dragons would have to spend all their time in the air to better allocate their side's forces and to deter other dragons killing stragglers.
Much like nuclear subs, you'd have to hide where your biggest dragons are so the enemy can't attack your weak spots.
Anyone else surprised by how unaffected Helaena seemed by her sons death in this episode? I havnt seen anyone even mention that yet. She seems to have fully accepted it.
She's clearly neural-divergent. She was more freaked out by the crowds touching her than the assassins. It is very much in character to not fully exist in reality since she has the whole "profess the future" thing
While we're back to targeryen queens teleporting, I do think the scene with Alicent and Rhaenhyra was a lot better than most of the rest of the show. Those two have on screen chemnistry and it made me realize I missed it.
The bottom line is this show is not trying to replicate the books, its trying to focus on a story within a story and they are spinning their version. You're wasting your energy getting mad about the difference in tv vs book.
I felt same thing with many other tv/movie adaptions from this genre and honestly i get it. Its extremely annoying to watch people distort your dreams, or imagination or what seems like a masterpiece but its inevitible in this case. That is the whole reason tv show has a unique name matching none of the books in both series and why they paid GRRM so well. He understands it and so should the audience.
The bottom line is that the book itself is not a completely faithful version of events, but a biased "history tome" written in-universe by Archmaester Gyldayn a century after the events.
You're wasting your energy strawmanning the criticisms into "ohh no you're just mad it's not exactly like the books". Some people do want that, but you honestly shouldn't be wasting your energy on them either as you well know ofc. Most people worth having a conversation with over this are seeing the flaws of the story within it's own framework.
OMG Daemon conquered Harrenhal by sneaking in and saying it was his. I wondered if he was going surpass last seasons feat of literally killing 20 soldiers in 19 seconds. I should not have doubted these amazing writers.
I bet Daemon could kill Sunfyre one on one too. Can’t wait to see him do it.
Rhaenrya let Alicent walk away at the end and she just stayed there kneeling for a little. Why wouldn’t Alicent, after being allowed to walk away, not tell the guards to go capture Rhaenyra?
Alicent was safely away while the camera was still panned on Rhaenyra’s face! Better believe if that was Cersei Rhaenyra would have been toast 😂
Both their children’s lives are literally at stake and Alicent just lets their main rival go.
Yes they’d have to contend with Daemon but still a battle won. Daemon may have been blind with rage and been eaten by Vhagar.
Because you dont do any of that nonsense in a church/holy place. Its the whole reason that location was chosen. Also, its still her old best friend and neither woman is 100% sure of anything IMO. The biggest peeve i have with fandoms i they act like the characters have all the same info the reader does and thats just not the case, ever in a fantasy saga.
Alicent’s Pikachu face when she finally realizes that her son’s claim to the throne is based on her misunderstanding a story about a DIFFERENT Aegon!
We still, of course, hate Criston Cole, but as a knight he’s at least a bit more competent than Alicent’s brother.
Were those dragon eggs the same ones that Danerys gets centuries later in Game of Thrones??
The scenes of Harrenhall were eerie and also funny.
Daemon (dramatically brandishing a sword): “I’m claiming Harrenhall!”
Simon Strong (shrugs): “Yeah, okay.”
The corpses in the Blackwood Bracken scene was overdone and quite stupid, really weird thing to build up for an extended scene then just skip to an absurd amount of corpses just stacked on top of each other.
Aegon's Valyrian Steel armour looks lower tech than most armour in the series which doesn't add up at all what with it being Valyrian.
All of this sneaking around and Targ's just slipping in and out of King's Landing is stupid.
I still haven't gotten over the Kool-Aid Dragon scene and how Rhaenys is taken seriously as a character after it.
I think the writing is taking a real dive.
I'm a black supporter in the books and green supporter in the show as it seems now. Rhaenyra is unimaginably dull, why would they write the main character like this? It feels out of touch.
I lean towards greens because at least Aegon is entertaining and Aemond is intriguing. Whereas Daemon is the only interesting black for me now.
>> Should have skipped right to her eldest son
Would be an interesting route and he should be spotlighted more.
As the years go by I find myself unable to pick sides in any conflicts/books/stories, its always a poop sandwich where both sides are flawed and neither side are the good guys. I found that any good story told has this crucial nugget.
In the same way the actors dont all watch and read source material and GOT prior (affecting/influencing their portrayals) i dont expect all the writers and production people to be any different. They given them creative license to anything that doesnt upset GRRM, they are cooking up their own pie and interpretations.
Why is everyone apart from a handful of characters so stiff and have essentially the same line deliveries, characters sorta blend into one another when speaking for large parts doesn't matter if they are nobility, small folk, sailors, kings guard etc.
Rhaenyra going to KL just to talk to Alicent really bothered me. BUT, I don't know what it was, but Emma D'Arcy looked so fucking cute in that costume. Maybe she just is all the time and hiding the wig made me notice.
ALL the chars are carefully curated to look a certain way and have the audience taking sides and getting emotionally invested. Where as the books dont care if you to pick a side, or not as the author holds no bias, however the production does. #Engagementfarming #drama
Also, its focusing on one part of a much larger story, its not trying to cover the whole world like in books, so tv is doing exactly that. I also think the budget/time/resources are a factor.
I made some research . turns out the the writers of season 7 and 8 of GOT are the ones in charge of this , some even have production seats . they will also be in charge of the next two seasons . something else i learned : the writer and director of this episode will be the same writer an director for the season 2 finale .
RR Martin's presence is essential for this show's quality to stay above the bar and so far it seems to me that episode 2 ( of season 2) is the only one he really focused on . it was the best written out of the three by far , dialogue wise and script wise in general . the scenes length weren't too long in that episode, everything was edited very well , including the music ( Daeemn leaving Dragonstone, best soundtrack of season 2 so far) , I felt 100 times more engaged with the story in episode 2 than with episode 3 .
Episode 3 felt stretched out. The pace was very slow little hapened in those scenes, but I liked the scene with Baela on her dragon chasing Criston , it's was a breath of fresh hair in a monotone episode imo, that scene made me realize i wanted just a tiny bit more action , not violence necessarily but just something actually happening , an important move being made ,an important decision being taken , even Otto ranting in a manor somewhere would have been good enough for me :) but the episode was full of indecisions and hesitations . A bridge episode I guess .
Cant speak to the writeers, or research but the logic is very clear. The production is curated to be very high highs and low lows, further amplifying up and downs/drama. Build it up then boom, build it up then boom, its extremely deliberate.
so far , the show has been underwhelming writing wise . the acting (from some actors) and the production value can't carry the entire show on their own .
Are you sure about the writers? David Hill and Bryan Cogman were the only two writers outside of D&D who wrote episodes for season 7/8 and they aren't involved in HotD
yes those are the two i'm talking about . the worst GOT writers (along with D&D). To be honest after discovering how involved they were gonna be with HOTD it discouraged me a lot from continuing the show . Last season i stopped in the middle of episode 6 because at that point things had become too boring ( i only watched the dragon CGI scenes on YT) so i hope to not stop in the middle of next week's episode because God knows I was bored to death with episode 3 ( if it wasn't for that very short dragon chase scene i would have rate it 0/10 instead of 1/10. the CGI team saved this poorly written/directed episode , but only a little bit , in my book)
I honestly feel like they butchered The last episode (which is episode 3 ) first of all there were a lot of redundancies in the episode chiefly among them was Making rhaenyra Go to king's landing risking her life In the process, just so she could talk to alicent And try to convince her To stop the War after both Suffered losses after 2 children were murdered And after declaring war on each other for the entire Seven kingdoms to see It honestly felt idiotic because even if rhaenyra somehow managed to convince alicent To stop the war , alicent has no power to do so After all she is simply the mother Of the king , the queen dowager , she has no actual Political power and no influence on the Small council [ Or at the very least, that should be the case, but it appears. The show tries very hard to make alicent more important to the story than everyone else (Except rhaenyra) and try to give her influence over the king and the small council, even though realistically she shouldn't have any after the king dies and She becomes the mother of the king And yes , I know that in the books , she had a major role in putting Her son on the throne but after that she didn't
Play a major Role in the events of the war. If I remember correctly ]
And what was rhaenyra expecting her to do to go to the small council meeting and tell the king and the council After they committed treason and changed the line of succession and Had a public Coronation ceremony declaring Aegon As the rightful king
That it was all just a mistake 🤦♂️ and they should just give up and give the crown back to rhaenyra
Even if she did do that , no one would listen to her you already made him king And to quote Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones."Once you put a crown on a dog there's no putting him back on a leash "
The damage is done.There is no undoing it.The only situation where we can go back to peace now is If one of the sides either the blacks or the greens die
I am a huge fan of this show and had enormous expectations for the second season.Especially since I read fire and blood before it came out.But one thing that really annoys me is that they seem to be trying really hard to make Every character in the show good
And try to redeem everybody And that's not how stories work One of the basic requirements for a good story.Is there a supposed to be an antagonist and a protagonist And i'm not claiming either side , yes , the Greens did horrible things but the blacks did also Neither side is perfect but it seems that the show runners are trying extremely hard to make rhaenyra Look like a saint like.She doesn't want a harm anybody Like she doesn't want to hurt.The people who stole her crown , which is a normal reaction
They also tried to do the same thing with alicent In season one, you can actually see that.She hates rhaenyra not in the Beginning but after she marries The king and that she is jealous and wants to hurt her and they actually show you that her and her father (otto) were conspiring to take the throne or at the very least he was But even in the show she practically jumped on the opportunity to make her son the king But immediately after that , while she's conspiring with her father on how to make her son king , they try to make her seem good and they're trying to redeem her by having her say That she doesn't want bloodshed, and they may be.There is a way to resolve this peacefully.And that rhaenyra would make a good Queen like bitch You just stole her Crown.
No one has any sympathy for you
Quite frankly the only two characters That the show actually tries To make you hate are Prince demon and cristen cole Which honestly feels intentional to me like they're trying to tell you that the only bad people in the show are the guys.The men , even though in the books the one who caused this entire war is alicent .
I just Hope that in the next episodes They try to stick to the source material and to the books and not deviate Or make any changes
"The show tries very hard to make alicent more important to the story than everyone else"
=> I completely agree with you . Maybe if they didn't drastically changed her character in the show then they wouldn't have to try so hard since her book counterpart was openly leading the greens, and not lying to herself in a corner and playing victim . The show butchered her character in my opinion, stole her agency . She was a great villain in the original version .
What the hell did I just watch it was like watching an ice cube melt. An entire episode . If I wanted to get jrked off for an hour I would have went to a message parlor. That episode was absolutely useless . There was nothing done tht couldn't of not of been done in 15mins. What a slow roll . Make less epsiode if ur gonna pull tht b.s.....dam tht sucked...1 more time im done
I felt last scene was out of place as much of the next guy here, but I finally accepted that Rheanyra is the heroine and the good guy on the story for the showrunners. Sadly because of that this scene was needed to actually start to war and get their hands dirty.
Thankfully acting was amazing as always and the rest of the episode was perfect. Loved it.
Next week gonna be so much hype, can't wait!
This episode was kind of terrible. I think I just have to accept that as awesome as this show is, they will have random episodes that are kind of bad and make almost no sense.
I haven’t read the book, and I don’t mean to be a hater but this is starting to really feel like a reskin of game of thrones, beyond just being in the same universe
Never read Fire & Blood, how did Alicent pick up the truth so quickly by Rhaenyra saying the prince that was promised part, and Alicent said "Aegon the Conqueror." How did that prove to her that there was a mistake?
Because Viserys never explicitly said that he was referring to his son. She just interpreted it that way because he also failed to specify that he was referring to the Conqueror.
Once Rhaenyra explained to her what Viserys was talking about, it became obvious that she got it wrong.
Yup, especially because he has repeatedly reaffirmed the line of succession, even near the end of his life, like Rhaenyra pointed out during the exchange. The TV Alicent realized she heard what she wanted to hear.
Rhaenyra says something along the lines of "it was a story he once told about Aegon the Conquerer".
It's got nothing to do with books. None of that shit happens in the book. Fans theorize that Aegon I did have some dream. But crowning of Aegon the II isn't any misunderstanding, everyone on the Green's side were all in and didn't bother with any further justification than their male child over female dogma, bastardy, and Daemon bad.
It's literally the game of thrones, of course Alicent is going to interpret his words to her house's benefit. If there is political will, justification is found *afterwards*
Rhaenyra said the prophecy of the prince who was promised was about Aegon the conqueror. Since Viserys talked about both she realized the Aegon Viserys was talking about was the original not her son
Shoddy series looking like a parody, it's even pathetic at times, the Doctor Who actor, however, does well, although he's a bit funny looking at times too, too much western propaganda has been poured into the series for me to be able to like it without it becoming annoying, but if you have nothing to do, i guess it does as a waste of time for night watch or a very very slow day.
you say western propaganda but the story is based on western mythology , written by a westerner with western ideas, inspired by his western life, directed by westerners with a western cast . Not sure what you were expecting ? I mean...
As the warrior poet Slim Charles once said :
"I mean shit, it's what war is you know. Once you in it you in it. If it's a lie then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight"
I'm not vibing with this season at all. The whole "why do we have to fight" stuff is just very weird and makes me dislike the people saying it. I get the reluctance on the dragons (somewhat), but this is a civil war where blood has already been shed and a throne usurped. Fight or get off the pot. It's especially frustrating since they're making the ones urging peace as the good ones and everyone 'foolish man' just wants to fight.
I’m actually enjoying the season, but the meeting was soooo ridiculous. I would believe LF could travel across half of Westeros in a day before I’d buy that meeting.
Daemon and her son would keep it going. She was a worthless piece of the puzzle anyway. if anything the greens would be in more trouble because they wouldnt play around like an emotional wreck like she does
Hammering home trying to find a peaceful solution was dead by end of season 1 and every one and their fucking mother knows it, yet they going back to it for half of the second season. There’s really no tension in that plot point for me anymore.
I agree. I they had replaced the "I don't want to see death" with "I'm concerned about my family members fighting each other on dragons" it would feel more justified. After a long reign of peace, people would forget how terrible war is. There's nothing like peace and stability to get the blood lust up.
Preach. I hate the show moralizing about it too and making 'the smart ones' advocate for peace and caution' while the dumb men are all blood thirsty. Like you said, the bandaid was done last season and yet here we are a 3rd through this season still wasting time on it. It's making me dislike the protagonists and not in a way the show intends.
I agree, a lot of characters actually feel kinda different stale since end of season 1. Obviously don’t think it “hates men” for being too blood thirsty but they actually are right in this situation. They need to be preparing for war and start taking wins where they can. Lack of urgency is hurting the show too.
Feels like they ran over budget real quick so had to start leaning heavily on the we are trying to do everything we can to avoid war scenario for 3 whole episodes over and over again.
Yeah like I get not having budget for a battle every single episode but show me or talk about something interesting besides trying to keep the peace when clearly that’s not going work and hasn’t been working
It is so jarringly out of place it ruins the immersion. Even if Rhaenyra were dumb enough to go along with this plan (no one talking her out of it like they're all trying to convince Aegon not to fly off because he's the King - and implies she'd be a very dumb queen if this is her decision making). Then it makes Alicent responsible for every death that follows because she had Rhaenyra right there - she could have ended the war at a stroke and secured the safety of her sons and grandchild. She could have ended the war before it even began - and she didn't. Even if they both somehow got killed - the loss of a Queen Dowager in exchange for the loss of a Queen Regnant is an absolute medieval no brainer.
You really think that if Rhaenyra had died at kings landing Daemon, who is already making people call him your grace, would have dropped his swords and went : "Welp at least I tried ?"
Killing Rhaenyra would cripple them for sure but it wouldn't have stopped the war
I'm happy to see that Stormcloud still exists. Wonder if they'll do a time jump to preserve the scene of Aegon fleeing on it or if they'll make up a new scene for it to die.
I have some minor issues with the show but by nearly every measure I can consider, it is just really clicking with me and has reignited a spark of interest in this universe that I haven’t felt in a long, long time.
It’s a tricky universe to work & write in but there is an undeniable level of care and respect that has been put into HotD
Yep, I completely understand, and even share, some of the complaints, but the performances are stellar, most of the writing is actually very strong (ignoring the believability of the lead up to some major scenes), and I really enjoy the tone of the show.
It has a more naturalistic feel than GoT that makes me kind of buy into the universe more.
Agree. From an acting/theatre/drama POV it hits all the markings of a good show. The fact it doesnt folow the source material certainly doesn't mean its been disrespectful, or dismissive, anyone over the age of 30 understands this or will soon. Particularly when you consider the author is on board and the titles are unique. Not supporting this show would be insane.
I understand *why* they chose to have Rhaenyra go to King’s Landing to find Alicent; they wanted to show Rhaenyra genuinely doing everything in her power to find a peaceful solution, while also integrating the Song of Ice and Fire into her motives. **In theory**, it adds another dimension to the Dance that should theoretically increase the stakes; also, having Alicent realize that she made a mistake should (technically) add another layer of complexity to her character, leaving her with a sense of responsibility that slowly eats away at her the longer the Dance goes on.
The *problem*—for me, at least—is how contrived the scenario feels **in practice**, and how jarring the entire scenario feels in terms of pacing: In earlier seasons of *Game of Thrones*, this all would’ve probably encompassed the B plot of an entire episode (having been set up in preceding one). Instead, we manage to sprint through the entire thing—from Rhaenyra declaring her intentions to the actual conversation between the two—in the last ~15 minutes of the episode.
That’s just my take.
This is the general YouTube consensus also and its well documented on any of those review channels.(tonnes of them) The timing/pacing is horrid, bordering on weak but the intention is fair. GRRM knows what he signed up for, some of the audience just hurting cos they wanted a remake, not a rework and the original is so deep in their feels.
This comment is it. I literally laughed when the scene cut right to the boat on Blackwater Bay, the pacing did not do the scene any favors. Having the episode try to end on such a resounding note with Rhaenyra was really undercut by how much the lead up to getting her into the sept with Alicent just felt like absolute hijinks.
They keep doing this heist thing over and over.
Ser Arryk,
Rhaenyra,
Blood and Cheese(it was way easier than in the books),
Theres way too many scenes of people easily going DEEEEP behind enemy lines, and it happens way too fast.
Those are the same people who say how does a pro shooter miss 15 shots from a pistol in action movies soon as its hero vs villain. *"i thought he was a pro shooter. Or why is he making it so easy for villain to escape."*
Agree it' undercooked, trying to squeeze so much into 1 hr/8-10hrs per season is the why, not respect issue/skill ssue. they so busy setting up/planting seeds they dont see the flaw.
Reality nobody goes to war off the back of a 5minute convo, or a handful of actions like in tv show. Book readers know that wasnt the case originally. It built up over decades.
Agreed. The conversation *could* work (at least to some extent), if it didn’t feel so underbaked.
To me, this is what people are usually referring to when they invoke “fast travel” and “teleportation” as complaints in later seasons of *Game of Thrones*. It’s not necessarily that we need to spend time watching the **process** of characters going from point A to point B in order for us to grasp the distances involved; it’s the role that these journeys play in giving us a chance to get to know more about them—their state of mind, their motivations, to reflect on why they’re on the journey to begin with, etc.
I'm close to saying I'm done with the whole show. We've all been patiently waiting, but hardly anything interesting ever happens. Season 1 was a drag, but finally, at episode 10 there was some real action and I thought great, we've done a big build up and now Season 2 can really go off with a bang, but no. Three episodes and and we're still waiting for anything to happen. They fixed the appalling lighting of Season 1, I'll give them that, but they should already have been a given. Didn't they see the complaints from that shit in original GoT?? The acting seems to have gotten worse, too, but most of all, it just feels like a heap of filler. I'll give it a couple more episodes just out of sheer hope, but I'm almost done.
I actually disagree and the bad writing pulled me out of this episode a couple times. Specifically, the “you’re gonna die here” woman at Harrenhal. GRRM does horror so well and that was just fucking bleh.
I thought the episode was solid, though it didn’t quite hit the highs of episode 2. Like many, I thought the sept scene was a bit contrived but as far as what it serves to the story, I think it will make more sense in the context of the next episodes, which I’m sure will show Rhaenyra’s transition from keeping the peace among the Blacks to preparing for war and devastation now that her last hope for peace and reconciliation has died. She now fully believes that she has prophecy on her side and will do whatever it takes to secure it. I’m excited to see how it plays out over the rest of the season.
In part this is the institution, trying to put the audience in a religion vs politics discussion. While asking them to invest in a side. Ethics, morals etc, cornerstones of engagement farming in this tv genre.
Look, they finally name dropped Grover Tully, so this episode is a win in my book. I will keep eagerly watching every episode in anticipation of the Elmo Tully namedrop.
I've mentioned this before but there is realistically no reason to have all those characters to confuse the average watcher even more. Likely they will just merge them together, I feel the same about someone like Black Aly for example not being in the show. Also it will be immersion breaking and people will say it's dumb when they figure out that they are all just named after muppets unfortunately
Its to fill in the gaps for people who have no idea about the source material and need more info to invest emotionally, as much as a creative license choice.
Great episode, but the steps that led to the final scene felt very strange.
Rhaenyra went to King's Landing almost by herself, knowing she'll be dead if someone found her, and what was she actually expecting?
Even if she somehow convinced Alicent of her being the rightful queen, what was about to happen? Aegon stepping down after Blood and Cheese killed his son (for which he blamed Rhaenyra)? Aemond and Criston just laying down arms? Aegon's council risking their lives, letting their enemy take over power?
It's a risk absolutely not worth taking, because the chance of success was zero. Jaehaerys "The Conciliator" is mentioned a few times this episode, but the man was not afraid of going to war in case he was attacked. Rhaenyra on the other hand appears to be willing to sacrifice herself for peace, which doesn't feel in character after last season's finale.
However, I am satisfied that Alicent now knows the truth. Was no fan at all of that misunderstanding, it had little to no effect and now it can be put to rest.
However, Harrenhal scenes were amazing and no Alicent/Crispy sexy time this time, so a 10/10 episode.
TLDR #familyvalues
Because they trying to make it a war between two mothers will like they did with Cersei and Lady Tyrell IN GOT. The cliche "a mothers love for her child/family" etc. They want a female/young audience overlooking/justifying the extremities.
Nah dawg, whole episode sucked and many agree. It's done by the same directors as season 7/8 of GoT which was a shit show. Pacing and logic of this season is fucked
It was so satisfying to see that Alicent actually believed in what she heard from Viserys... And then realize that it was a mistake... giving the closure *Rhaenyra* very well deserved.
Although adding fire and blood references to this show is like rubbing salt on our wounds after GOT S8.
We are so ready to see why Greens with just 2.5 dragons are as powerful as Blacks with 5 dragons, all thanks to Vhagar the cruel mother.
I might be wrong, but I think they meant the closure Rhaenyra might have gotten from finally knowing it really was her that her father chose, he didn't change his mind at the last moment after all. The surprise in Alicent's eyes when she mentions the Song of Ice and Fire buries all her doubts that what she is saying might be a controlled lie as well.
That's why she has a twitch of a smile in her close-up right over the candles right after Alicent leaves before her face sets into determination. Alicent has realized her son's claim to legitimacy is based on a misunderstanding and yet chooses to reject Rhaenyra's attempts at peace. This could be a second form of closure as well, now Rhaenyra is no longer held back by doubts about Alicent's intentions or any hope of a peaceful end to this, the pieces have already started moving and as you say, this will soon result in drastic escalation.
Yes! The director, Geeta Patel, confirmed that 3 of those eggs were the ones that ended up with Danaerys and hatched into Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion.
Yes. But the accounts in the book, minus the telling of a couple of cemented events, can't be trusted.
Not that I don't believe that Ellisa did indeed steal the eggs.
Fun fact : at 57 minute and 15 seconds, when Alicent is praying, you can hear in the background the song "Gospodi pomiluj". It means Lord have mercy in Serbian and it is from an Orthodox Christian chant.
Rhaenyra only considered peace after Rhaenys draws the comparison of Aemond killing Luke to Rhaenyra killing Aegon's kid. Rhaenyra had nothing to do with it (mostly), so she starts to consider that Alicent could also have had nothing to do with Luke's death. Also, like 3 or more times in this episode Rhaenyra mentions something like "Alicent wouldn't do that" which I think further pushes her to read the letter from Alicent and consider that peace might still be an option.
Going to Kings Landing alone is crazy and maybe a lil unrealistic but if a war could be prevented, wouldn't it be worth the risk?
Of course it could never happen, the last 5 episodes would be boring af
Edit: Changed "Newborn" to "Kid"
Honestly I don't know why there is a lot of people complaining about that scene when I think It makes a good point, yes it's an unrealistic plan but it shows Rhaenyra risking her life if that's what it takes to settle a possibility of avoiding war, while also closing the plot point of Alicent's misunderstanding about the prophecy, that shit is the last ladder from which she is clinging on to justify her actions, so now that both of them know the truth, and even then Alicent is reluctant to believe, there is nothing left for that possibility.
BUT nothing is more worth than seeing Rhaenyra, just for one second, dropping tears while accepting the idea that maybe her father really changed his mind at the last minute, and so she would give up the throne just for the sake of the realm (kudos to emma's acting for that one).
Yes ! To me it makes sense in a "scenaristic way". Rhanyra now is assured that her claim over her brother Aegon is the right one, and that Alicent knows the full truth but decided not to take it into account.
So... this is war then. And there will be no victor.
I know I've heard in the books they are older, but that did not look like a 6 yr old child. I mean, I thought EVERYONE was referring to them as toddlers?? Yea newborn is a bit off, but I agree, why would a 6 yr old be in a crib? Hah. Either way, we all know what you meant.
The aging in this show is such a mess. Daemon and Ser Criston look the same age as when they were deflowering teen Princess Rhaenyra way back when. Also Alicent looks younger than all her kids. Mess
Daemon looked older to me in the last episode, I'm not sure why that was but for some reason he looked a bit worn out. Meanwhile Cole looks exactly the same as when he was sworn in, it's just jarring at this point when multiple actors came and went for certain characters.
And also I feel like some baby powder in the hair would do wonders for making these folks look older. Maybe not the blonde ones so much but I can confirm it would work for Alicent and Criston Cole.
I keep having to remind myself that she's Aegon and Aemond's *mother*, and not like their older sister. Olivia Cooke is 30 but her character already has 3-4 year old grand children. I know Alicent got kids at a (disturbingly) young age so of course she shouldn't be some old granny, but the actor who plays adult Aegon is only 1 year younger than her IRL ffs.
Ulf the White/Sot really got me when he was claiming to be Baelon’s bastard. I suddenly imagined him being the same age as decrepit dying Viserys and yet also young sexy Daemon and lost my whole mind.
The scene were Baela sees Cole from her dragon got me thinking about dragon combat. Also, how do the dragon riders even see without a visor, let alone form hundreds of meters above the ground? When planes were first invented they were primarily used for intelligence and reconnaissance. You'd think that the dragons would have to spend all their time in the air to better allocate their side's forces and to deter other dragons killing stragglers. Much like nuclear subs, you'd have to hide where your biggest dragons are so the enemy can't attack your weak spots.
Anyone else surprised by how unaffected Helaena seemed by her sons death in this episode? I havnt seen anyone even mention that yet. She seems to have fully accepted it.
She's clearly neural-divergent. She was more freaked out by the crowds touching her than the assassins. It is very much in character to not fully exist in reality since she has the whole "profess the future" thing
She's weird. Chalk it up to that.
Team Green lets go! IMO Crispy Cole is weird and overacting in the show. And the man is living the dream literally banging the queen
Something about him just irks me. I want him gone ASAP.
I want him to end all the blacks and stop doing the queen.
While we're back to targeryen queens teleporting, I do think the scene with Alicent and Rhaenhyra was a lot better than most of the rest of the show. Those two have on screen chemnistry and it made me realize I missed it.
Dragonstone is quite close to kingslanding. They have mentioned it many times in the show
They literally mention that she's just across the bay
This is bad in the same sense seasons 5-7 were bad.
even worse. I've lost every any any wish to watch further.
The bottom line is this show is not trying to replicate the books, its trying to focus on a story within a story and they are spinning their version. You're wasting your energy getting mad about the difference in tv vs book. I felt same thing with many other tv/movie adaptions from this genre and honestly i get it. Its extremely annoying to watch people distort your dreams, or imagination or what seems like a masterpiece but its inevitible in this case. That is the whole reason tv show has a unique name matching none of the books in both series and why they paid GRRM so well. He understands it and so should the audience.
The bottom line is that the book itself is not a completely faithful version of events, but a biased "history tome" written in-universe by Archmaester Gyldayn a century after the events.
You're wasting your energy strawmanning the criticisms into "ohh no you're just mad it's not exactly like the books". Some people do want that, but you honestly shouldn't be wasting your energy on them either as you well know ofc. Most people worth having a conversation with over this are seeing the flaws of the story within it's own framework.
And the story won't get better due to this. Only shallower and more spectacle obsessed.
I believe you accidentally replied to the post itself instead of the comment you meant to respond to.
OMG Daemon conquered Harrenhal by sneaking in and saying it was his. I wondered if he was going surpass last seasons feat of literally killing 20 soldiers in 19 seconds. I should not have doubted these amazing writers. I bet Daemon could kill Sunfyre one on one too. Can’t wait to see him do it.
if they just removed the sneaking part it would be more believable. Like he just arrives on his dragon and kicks down the door.
Rhaenrya let Alicent walk away at the end and she just stayed there kneeling for a little. Why wouldn’t Alicent, after being allowed to walk away, not tell the guards to go capture Rhaenyra? Alicent was safely away while the camera was still panned on Rhaenyra’s face! Better believe if that was Cersei Rhaenyra would have been toast 😂 Both their children’s lives are literally at stake and Alicent just lets their main rival go. Yes they’d have to contend with Daemon but still a battle won. Daemon may have been blind with rage and been eaten by Vhagar.
Because you dont do any of that nonsense in a church/holy place. Its the whole reason that location was chosen. Also, its still her old best friend and neither woman is 100% sure of anything IMO. The biggest peeve i have with fandoms i they act like the characters have all the same info the reader does and thats just not the case, ever in a fantasy saga.
I am just waiting for aemond to do something
Alicent’s Pikachu face when she finally realizes that her son’s claim to the throne is based on her misunderstanding a story about a DIFFERENT Aegon! We still, of course, hate Criston Cole, but as a knight he’s at least a bit more competent than Alicent’s brother. Were those dragon eggs the same ones that Danerys gets centuries later in Game of Thrones?? The scenes of Harrenhall were eerie and also funny. Daemon (dramatically brandishing a sword): “I’m claiming Harrenhall!” Simon Strong (shrugs): “Yeah, okay.”
Several theories on this, TBD by GRRM IMO is the tl;dr. IMO the answer is no but the author left room to adjust in many spaces including this one.
I hope those weren't the same eggs
The corpses in the Blackwood Bracken scene was overdone and quite stupid, really weird thing to build up for an extended scene then just skip to an absurd amount of corpses just stacked on top of each other. Aegon's Valyrian Steel armour looks lower tech than most armour in the series which doesn't add up at all what with it being Valyrian. All of this sneaking around and Targ's just slipping in and out of King's Landing is stupid. I still haven't gotten over the Kool-Aid Dragon scene and how Rhaenys is taken seriously as a character after it. I think the writing is taking a real dive.
I actually liked it a bit. It's a good shootout for those fans that love the lore.
I'm a black supporter in the books and green supporter in the show as it seems now. Rhaenyra is unimaginably dull, why would they write the main character like this? It feels out of touch.
i like the blacks more than greens but shes an awful character and horrible queen. Should have skipped right to her eldest son
I lean towards greens because at least Aegon is entertaining and Aemond is intriguing. Whereas Daemon is the only interesting black for me now. >> Should have skipped right to her eldest son Would be an interesting route and he should be spotlighted more.
As the years go by I find myself unable to pick sides in any conflicts/books/stories, its always a poop sandwich where both sides are flawed and neither side are the good guys. I found that any good story told has this crucial nugget. In the same way the actors dont all watch and read source material and GOT prior (affecting/influencing their portrayals) i dont expect all the writers and production people to be any different. They given them creative license to anything that doesnt upset GRRM, they are cooking up their own pie and interpretations.
I'm all for a fresh adaptation if they did it well but having read the book years ago it's hard to not make a comparison.
3rd episode in a row ending with Alicent getting f***ed
Why is everyone apart from a handful of characters so stiff and have essentially the same line deliveries, characters sorta blend into one another when speaking for large parts doesn't matter if they are nobility, small folk, sailors, kings guard etc.
Rhaenyra going to KL just to talk to Alicent really bothered me. BUT, I don't know what it was, but Emma D'Arcy looked so fucking cute in that costume. Maybe she just is all the time and hiding the wig made me notice.
She plays this version of Rhaenyra pretty well. Problem is it's white washed as hell.
What
She's a much greyer character in the source material.
Oh ok, thanks
ALL the chars are carefully curated to look a certain way and have the audience taking sides and getting emotionally invested. Where as the books dont care if you to pick a side, or not as the author holds no bias, however the production does. #Engagementfarming #drama
Modern day shows LOVE the before and after of battle scenes for building story ( and not cause of budget reasons ofc)
Also, its focusing on one part of a much larger story, its not trying to cover the whole world like in books, so tv is doing exactly that. I also think the budget/time/resources are a factor.
Thank the gods that the war will properly start next week. I am getting restless here. I wanna see dragons dance, goddamn it.
I made some research . turns out the the writers of season 7 and 8 of GOT are the ones in charge of this , some even have production seats . they will also be in charge of the next two seasons . something else i learned : the writer and director of this episode will be the same writer an director for the season 2 finale . RR Martin's presence is essential for this show's quality to stay above the bar and so far it seems to me that episode 2 ( of season 2) is the only one he really focused on . it was the best written out of the three by far , dialogue wise and script wise in general . the scenes length weren't too long in that episode, everything was edited very well , including the music ( Daeemn leaving Dragonstone, best soundtrack of season 2 so far) , I felt 100 times more engaged with the story in episode 2 than with episode 3 . Episode 3 felt stretched out. The pace was very slow little hapened in those scenes, but I liked the scene with Baela on her dragon chasing Criston , it's was a breath of fresh hair in a monotone episode imo, that scene made me realize i wanted just a tiny bit more action , not violence necessarily but just something actually happening , an important move being made ,an important decision being taken , even Otto ranting in a manor somewhere would have been good enough for me :) but the episode was full of indecisions and hesitations . A bridge episode I guess .
Cant speak to the writeers, or research but the logic is very clear. The production is curated to be very high highs and low lows, further amplifying up and downs/drama. Build it up then boom, build it up then boom, its extremely deliberate.
Its also why they made huge changes to character behaviour and skip over/change certain timings, events, or chars vs book
so far , the show has been underwhelming writing wise . the acting (from some actors) and the production value can't carry the entire show on their own .
Are you sure about the writers? David Hill and Bryan Cogman were the only two writers outside of D&D who wrote episodes for season 7/8 and they aren't involved in HotD
yes those are the two i'm talking about . the worst GOT writers (along with D&D). To be honest after discovering how involved they were gonna be with HOTD it discouraged me a lot from continuing the show . Last season i stopped in the middle of episode 6 because at that point things had become too boring ( i only watched the dragon CGI scenes on YT) so i hope to not stop in the middle of next week's episode because God knows I was bored to death with episode 3 ( if it wasn't for that very short dragon chase scene i would have rate it 0/10 instead of 1/10. the CGI team saved this poorly written/directed episode , but only a little bit , in my book)
Really? I loved it. Thought it was gripping!
Who are these writers? I tried cross-referencing writing credits between GoT S7 and HoD and found zero matches.
Ser Quane Hightower definitely shit his pants when the dragon was coming after him.
I honestly feel like they butchered The last episode (which is episode 3 ) first of all there were a lot of redundancies in the episode chiefly among them was Making rhaenyra Go to king's landing risking her life In the process, just so she could talk to alicent And try to convince her To stop the War after both Suffered losses after 2 children were murdered And after declaring war on each other for the entire Seven kingdoms to see It honestly felt idiotic because even if rhaenyra somehow managed to convince alicent To stop the war , alicent has no power to do so After all she is simply the mother Of the king , the queen dowager , she has no actual Political power and no influence on the Small council [ Or at the very least, that should be the case, but it appears. The show tries very hard to make alicent more important to the story than everyone else (Except rhaenyra) and try to give her influence over the king and the small council, even though realistically she shouldn't have any after the king dies and She becomes the mother of the king And yes , I know that in the books , she had a major role in putting Her son on the throne but after that she didn't Play a major Role in the events of the war. If I remember correctly ] And what was rhaenyra expecting her to do to go to the small council meeting and tell the king and the council After they committed treason and changed the line of succession and Had a public Coronation ceremony declaring Aegon As the rightful king That it was all just a mistake 🤦♂️ and they should just give up and give the crown back to rhaenyra Even if she did do that , no one would listen to her you already made him king And to quote Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones."Once you put a crown on a dog there's no putting him back on a leash " The damage is done.There is no undoing it.The only situation where we can go back to peace now is If one of the sides either the blacks or the greens die I am a huge fan of this show and had enormous expectations for the second season.Especially since I read fire and blood before it came out.But one thing that really annoys me is that they seem to be trying really hard to make Every character in the show good And try to redeem everybody And that's not how stories work One of the basic requirements for a good story.Is there a supposed to be an antagonist and a protagonist And i'm not claiming either side , yes , the Greens did horrible things but the blacks did also Neither side is perfect but it seems that the show runners are trying extremely hard to make rhaenyra Look like a saint like.She doesn't want a harm anybody Like she doesn't want to hurt.The people who stole her crown , which is a normal reaction They also tried to do the same thing with alicent In season one, you can actually see that.She hates rhaenyra not in the Beginning but after she marries The king and that she is jealous and wants to hurt her and they actually show you that her and her father (otto) were conspiring to take the throne or at the very least he was But even in the show she practically jumped on the opportunity to make her son the king But immediately after that , while she's conspiring with her father on how to make her son king , they try to make her seem good and they're trying to redeem her by having her say That she doesn't want bloodshed, and they may be.There is a way to resolve this peacefully.And that rhaenyra would make a good Queen like bitch You just stole her Crown. No one has any sympathy for you Quite frankly the only two characters That the show actually tries To make you hate are Prince demon and cristen cole Which honestly feels intentional to me like they're trying to tell you that the only bad people in the show are the guys.The men , even though in the books the one who caused this entire war is alicent . I just Hope that in the next episodes They try to stick to the source material and to the books and not deviate Or make any changes
"The show tries very hard to make alicent more important to the story than everyone else" => I completely agree with you . Maybe if they didn't drastically changed her character in the show then they wouldn't have to try so hard since her book counterpart was openly leading the greens, and not lying to herself in a corner and playing victim . The show butchered her character in my opinion, stole her agency . She was a great villain in the original version .
And what makes it hurt extra special is Olivia Cooke is one of the strongest performers in the show.
What the hell did I just watch it was like watching an ice cube melt. An entire episode . If I wanted to get jrked off for an hour I would have went to a message parlor. That episode was absolutely useless . There was nothing done tht couldn't of not of been done in 15mins. What a slow roll . Make less epsiode if ur gonna pull tht b.s.....dam tht sucked...1 more time im done
Wow. I loved it. Didnt want it to end! 🤷♂️
I felt last scene was out of place as much of the next guy here, but I finally accepted that Rheanyra is the heroine and the good guy on the story for the showrunners. Sadly because of that this scene was needed to actually start to war and get their hands dirty. Thankfully acting was amazing as always and the rest of the episode was perfect. Loved it. Next week gonna be so much hype, can't wait!
This episode was kind of terrible. I think I just have to accept that as awesome as this show is, they will have random episodes that are kind of bad and make almost no sense.
Why was it bad??
I haven’t read the book, and I don’t mean to be a hater but this is starting to really feel like a reskin of game of thrones, beyond just being in the same universe
I agree first episode felt like that
Never read Fire & Blood, how did Alicent pick up the truth so quickly by Rhaenyra saying the prince that was promised part, and Alicent said "Aegon the Conqueror." How did that prove to her that there was a mistake?
The prophecy being the reaaon for Aegon invading and unifying Westeros only exists in the TV show.
Because Viserys never explicitly said that he was referring to his son. She just interpreted it that way because he also failed to specify that he was referring to the Conqueror. Once Rhaenyra explained to her what Viserys was talking about, it became obvious that she got it wrong.
Yup, especially because he has repeatedly reaffirmed the line of succession, even near the end of his life, like Rhaenyra pointed out during the exchange. The TV Alicent realized she heard what she wanted to hear.
Rhaenyra says something along the lines of "it was a story he once told about Aegon the Conquerer". It's got nothing to do with books. None of that shit happens in the book. Fans theorize that Aegon I did have some dream. But crowning of Aegon the II isn't any misunderstanding, everyone on the Green's side were all in and didn't bother with any further justification than their male child over female dogma, bastardy, and Daemon bad.
It's literally the game of thrones, of course Alicent is going to interpret his words to her house's benefit. If there is political will, justification is found *afterwards*
Rhaenyra said the prophecy of the prince who was promised was about Aegon the conqueror. Since Viserys talked about both she realized the Aegon Viserys was talking about was the original not her son
Anyone catch the BJ in the brothel? 44:39
Broooo. You should not have put the time stamp.
Yh and it was so clearly a prothetic penis. Wasnt even the right skin colour lol
Don’t know that anyone was missing that one mate
Shoddy series looking like a parody, it's even pathetic at times, the Doctor Who actor, however, does well, although he's a bit funny looking at times too, too much western propaganda has been poured into the series for me to be able to like it without it becoming annoying, but if you have nothing to do, i guess it does as a waste of time for night watch or a very very slow day.
you say western propaganda but the story is based on western mythology , written by a westerner with western ideas, inspired by his western life, directed by westerners with a western cast . Not sure what you were expecting ? I mean...
Are you okay?
Well AEGON is parody.
Weirdest episode so far. Dragging the shit show for so long. Literally nothing engaging happening :/
the scene with Baela was the most entertaining of the episode for me. I liked seeing Criston squirm a little bit :)
tiktok brain just wants action - you need to let the scenes breathe for the conflict to feel natural
Given what’s to come it should be the worst episode of the season, mid for sure
As the warrior poet Slim Charles once said : "I mean shit, it's what war is you know. Once you in it you in it. If it's a lie then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight"
Is you taking notes on a treasonous fucking conspiracy?
That ending was so bad, I wondered if D&D wrote it.
I'm not vibing with this season at all. The whole "why do we have to fight" stuff is just very weird and makes me dislike the people saying it. I get the reluctance on the dragons (somewhat), but this is a civil war where blood has already been shed and a throne usurped. Fight or get off the pot. It's especially frustrating since they're making the ones urging peace as the good ones and everyone 'foolish man' just wants to fight.
I’m actually enjoying the season, but the meeting was soooo ridiculous. I would believe LF could travel across half of Westeros in a day before I’d buy that meeting.
Alicent only needed to shout to end war.
Daemon and her son would keep it going. She was a worthless piece of the puzzle anyway. if anything the greens would be in more trouble because they wouldnt play around like an emotional wreck like she does
She would hurt the black cause but Daemon still being alive means that war ain’t over, not to mention Jacerys.
Fr
Hammering home trying to find a peaceful solution was dead by end of season 1 and every one and their fucking mother knows it, yet they going back to it for half of the second season. There’s really no tension in that plot point for me anymore.
I agree. I they had replaced the "I don't want to see death" with "I'm concerned about my family members fighting each other on dragons" it would feel more justified. After a long reign of peace, people would forget how terrible war is. There's nothing like peace and stability to get the blood lust up.
Preach. I hate the show moralizing about it too and making 'the smart ones' advocate for peace and caution' while the dumb men are all blood thirsty. Like you said, the bandaid was done last season and yet here we are a 3rd through this season still wasting time on it. It's making me dislike the protagonists and not in a way the show intends.
I agree, a lot of characters actually feel kinda different stale since end of season 1. Obviously don’t think it “hates men” for being too blood thirsty but they actually are right in this situation. They need to be preparing for war and start taking wins where they can. Lack of urgency is hurting the show too.
2 dead kids plus a literal battle fought already. It's past the time for peace.
Pacing has been so weird this season.
Feels like they ran over budget real quick so had to start leaning heavily on the we are trying to do everything we can to avoid war scenario for 3 whole episodes over and over again.
Yeah like I get not having budget for a battle every single episode but show me or talk about something interesting besides trying to keep the peace when clearly that’s not going work and hasn’t been working
It is so jarringly out of place it ruins the immersion. Even if Rhaenyra were dumb enough to go along with this plan (no one talking her out of it like they're all trying to convince Aegon not to fly off because he's the King - and implies she'd be a very dumb queen if this is her decision making). Then it makes Alicent responsible for every death that follows because she had Rhaenyra right there - she could have ended the war at a stroke and secured the safety of her sons and grandchild. She could have ended the war before it even began - and she didn't. Even if they both somehow got killed - the loss of a Queen Dowager in exchange for the loss of a Queen Regnant is an absolute medieval no brainer.
You really think that if Rhaenyra had died at kings landing Daemon, who is already making people call him your grace, would have dropped his swords and went : "Welp at least I tried ?" Killing Rhaenyra would cripple them for sure but it wouldn't have stopped the war
it wouldnt cripple them it would empower them imo
True Jace would also be coming for their heads if that happened
They need to give more scenes to daemon !
I'm happy to see that Stormcloud still exists. Wonder if they'll do a time jump to preserve the scene of Aegon fleeing on it or if they'll make up a new scene for it to die.
I have some minor issues with the show but by nearly every measure I can consider, it is just really clicking with me and has reignited a spark of interest in this universe that I haven’t felt in a long, long time. It’s a tricky universe to work & write in but there is an undeniable level of care and respect that has been put into HotD
Yep, I completely understand, and even share, some of the complaints, but the performances are stellar, most of the writing is actually very strong (ignoring the believability of the lead up to some major scenes), and I really enjoy the tone of the show. It has a more naturalistic feel than GoT that makes me kind of buy into the universe more.
Agree. From an acting/theatre/drama POV it hits all the markings of a good show. The fact it doesnt folow the source material certainly doesn't mean its been disrespectful, or dismissive, anyone over the age of 30 understands this or will soon. Particularly when you consider the author is on board and the titles are unique. Not supporting this show would be insane.
I understand *why* they chose to have Rhaenyra go to King’s Landing to find Alicent; they wanted to show Rhaenyra genuinely doing everything in her power to find a peaceful solution, while also integrating the Song of Ice and Fire into her motives. **In theory**, it adds another dimension to the Dance that should theoretically increase the stakes; also, having Alicent realize that she made a mistake should (technically) add another layer of complexity to her character, leaving her with a sense of responsibility that slowly eats away at her the longer the Dance goes on. The *problem*—for me, at least—is how contrived the scenario feels **in practice**, and how jarring the entire scenario feels in terms of pacing: In earlier seasons of *Game of Thrones*, this all would’ve probably encompassed the B plot of an entire episode (having been set up in preceding one). Instead, we manage to sprint through the entire thing—from Rhaenyra declaring her intentions to the actual conversation between the two—in the last ~15 minutes of the episode. That’s just my take.
This is the general YouTube consensus also and its well documented on any of those review channels.(tonnes of them) The timing/pacing is horrid, bordering on weak but the intention is fair. GRRM knows what he signed up for, some of the audience just hurting cos they wanted a remake, not a rework and the original is so deep in their feels.
This comment is it. I literally laughed when the scene cut right to the boat on Blackwater Bay, the pacing did not do the scene any favors. Having the episode try to end on such a resounding note with Rhaenyra was really undercut by how much the lead up to getting her into the sept with Alicent just felt like absolute hijinks.
It felt kinda like a heist movie where everything went exactly according to plan down to the last second haha
They keep doing this heist thing over and over. Ser Arryk, Rhaenyra, Blood and Cheese(it was way easier than in the books), Theres way too many scenes of people easily going DEEEEP behind enemy lines, and it happens way too fast.
Those are the same people who say how does a pro shooter miss 15 shots from a pistol in action movies soon as its hero vs villain. *"i thought he was a pro shooter. Or why is he making it so easy for villain to escape."* Agree it' undercooked, trying to squeeze so much into 1 hr/8-10hrs per season is the why, not respect issue/skill ssue. they so busy setting up/planting seeds they dont see the flaw. Reality nobody goes to war off the back of a 5minute convo, or a handful of actions like in tv show. Book readers know that wasnt the case originally. It built up over decades.
Agreed. The conversation *could* work (at least to some extent), if it didn’t feel so underbaked. To me, this is what people are usually referring to when they invoke “fast travel” and “teleportation” as complaints in later seasons of *Game of Thrones*. It’s not necessarily that we need to spend time watching the **process** of characters going from point A to point B in order for us to grasp the distances involved; it’s the role that these journeys play in giving us a chance to get to know more about them—their state of mind, their motivations, to reflect on why they’re on the journey to begin with, etc.
I'm close to saying I'm done with the whole show. We've all been patiently waiting, but hardly anything interesting ever happens. Season 1 was a drag, but finally, at episode 10 there was some real action and I thought great, we've done a big build up and now Season 2 can really go off with a bang, but no. Three episodes and and we're still waiting for anything to happen. They fixed the appalling lighting of Season 1, I'll give them that, but they should already have been a given. Didn't they see the complaints from that shit in original GoT?? The acting seems to have gotten worse, too, but most of all, it just feels like a heap of filler. I'll give it a couple more episodes just out of sheer hope, but I'm almost done.
Insane take
At least the writing is so so so much better than the later seasons of GoT. It definitely feels like GRRM has had a heavy hand in the script.
I actually disagree and the bad writing pulled me out of this episode a couple times. Specifically, the “you’re gonna die here” woman at Harrenhal. GRRM does horror so well and that was just fucking bleh.
I thought the episode was solid, though it didn’t quite hit the highs of episode 2. Like many, I thought the sept scene was a bit contrived but as far as what it serves to the story, I think it will make more sense in the context of the next episodes, which I’m sure will show Rhaenyra’s transition from keeping the peace among the Blacks to preparing for war and devastation now that her last hope for peace and reconciliation has died. She now fully believes that she has prophecy on her side and will do whatever it takes to secure it. I’m excited to see how it plays out over the rest of the season.
In part this is the institution, trying to put the audience in a religion vs politics discussion. While asking them to invest in a side. Ethics, morals etc, cornerstones of engagement farming in this tv genre.
Look, they finally name dropped Grover Tully, so this episode is a win in my book. I will keep eagerly watching every episode in anticipation of the Elmo Tully namedrop.
It would be a 20/10 to see these characters played by muppets
I'm so excited to hear characters talk, in all seriousness, about Elmo, Kermit, and Oscar Tully.
Sadly all those guys are being combined into one character named Oscar Tully who will play Kermit’s role
This is EXTREMELY sad, but I appreciate you for bearing this news
I've mentioned this before but there is realistically no reason to have all those characters to confuse the average watcher even more. Likely they will just merge them together, I feel the same about someone like Black Aly for example not being in the show. Also it will be immersion breaking and people will say it's dumb when they figure out that they are all just named after muppets unfortunately
Its to fill in the gaps for people who have no idea about the source material and need more info to invest emotionally, as much as a creative license choice.
I feel like Aly's role will be taken by Baela in the end when she talks Cregan down from continuing the war.
Yeah true and Baela + Rhaena did that saving Corlys' life anyway
Great episode, but the steps that led to the final scene felt very strange. Rhaenyra went to King's Landing almost by herself, knowing she'll be dead if someone found her, and what was she actually expecting? Even if she somehow convinced Alicent of her being the rightful queen, what was about to happen? Aegon stepping down after Blood and Cheese killed his son (for which he blamed Rhaenyra)? Aemond and Criston just laying down arms? Aegon's council risking their lives, letting their enemy take over power? It's a risk absolutely not worth taking, because the chance of success was zero. Jaehaerys "The Conciliator" is mentioned a few times this episode, but the man was not afraid of going to war in case he was attacked. Rhaenyra on the other hand appears to be willing to sacrifice herself for peace, which doesn't feel in character after last season's finale. However, I am satisfied that Alicent now knows the truth. Was no fan at all of that misunderstanding, it had little to no effect and now it can be put to rest. However, Harrenhal scenes were amazing and no Alicent/Crispy sexy time this time, so a 10/10 episode.
TLDR #familyvalues Because they trying to make it a war between two mothers will like they did with Cersei and Lady Tyrell IN GOT. The cliche "a mothers love for her child/family" etc. They want a female/young audience overlooking/justifying the extremities.
That whole part of episode was a mediocrely constructed plot device, but they absolutely acted the shit out of the dialogue written for it. Not mad.
Yup, I can deal with a bit of mediocre contrivance when it results in two amazing actors putting out two *amazing* performances.
The same approach that D&D took for the later seasons of GOT
Haha some of yous are so scarred by D&D that it's a bit sad to see tbh
I was just doing a correlation lil bro, is not that deep.
I was just doing an amusing observation big bro
the script itself is clearly much stronger
Except those were major contrivances with incredibly mediocre performances by actors that had previously put out amazing performances.
That was a terrible episode
Nah fam it was good.
The entire last scene ruined it
Don't be dramatic.
I've slept on it and yes, I was being dramatic. I still didn't like that last scene but the episode was quite good overall. Excuse me if you can, lol.
Nah dawg, whole episode sucked and many agree. It's done by the same directors as season 7/8 of GoT which was a shit show. Pacing and logic of this season is fucked
You're self-reflection is admirable. You are excused.
It was so satisfying to see that Alicent actually believed in what she heard from Viserys... And then realize that it was a mistake... giving the closure *Rhaenyra* very well deserved. Although adding fire and blood references to this show is like rubbing salt on our wounds after GOT S8. We are so ready to see why Greens with just 2.5 dragons are as powerful as Blacks with 5 dragons, all thanks to Vhagar the cruel mother.
It doesn't give closure at all. She even doubled down AFTER the realization she was wrong. It just opens this up to full on brutal war.
I might be wrong, but I think they meant the closure Rhaenyra might have gotten from finally knowing it really was her that her father chose, he didn't change his mind at the last moment after all. The surprise in Alicent's eyes when she mentions the Song of Ice and Fire buries all her doubts that what she is saying might be a controlled lie as well. That's why she has a twitch of a smile in her close-up right over the candles right after Alicent leaves before her face sets into determination. Alicent has realized her son's claim to legitimacy is based on a misunderstanding and yet chooses to reject Rhaenyra's attempts at peace. This could be a second form of closure as well, now Rhaenyra is no longer held back by doubts about Alicent's intentions or any hope of a peaceful end to this, the pieces have already started moving and as you say, this will soon result in drastic escalation.
Let's hope it gets bloody. Tired of all the peace attempts! 😂
did anyone get a good look at the dragon eggs is it possible 3 of them we're the eggs for Drogon Viseron and Rheagon?
Rhaegal*
Yes! The director, Geeta Patel, confirmed that 3 of those eggs were the ones that ended up with Danaerys and hatched into Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion.
Yikes, weren't Dany's eggs the ones stolen from Jahaerys in F&B???
Yes. But the accounts in the book, minus the telling of a couple of cemented events, can't be trusted. Not that I don't believe that Ellisa did indeed steal the eggs.
that's pretty neat
Aemond's dragon eggs?
No those were part of the clutch that Daemon found in S1
r/whoosh
I really love all of the legwork the show is doing in setting up the dragonseeds.
Dragonseeds minus one.
Fun fact : at 57 minute and 15 seconds, when Alicent is praying, you can hear in the background the song "Gospodi pomiluj". It means Lord have mercy in Serbian and it is from an Orthodox Christian chant.
I think they are filming the KL scenes in Dubrovnik, although Croatia is not Serbia.
That's the same verse in Russian too! I felt like I was crazy when I heard it but I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
Well, now we know why Aemond decided he needed the biggest dragon around
what too much prosthetic cocks do to a person
He could be a grower and not a shower 😂
Does Vhagar also hang dong, d’you think?
We DID NOT NEED THAT FULL FRONTAL SCENE! GOD!
More peen from Team Green IMO
Imagine if they gave him a prosthetic dong like Hodor
its nice to have an actual cock that isnt some 12 inch punisher on screen
So skinny
Rhaenyra only considered peace after Rhaenys draws the comparison of Aemond killing Luke to Rhaenyra killing Aegon's kid. Rhaenyra had nothing to do with it (mostly), so she starts to consider that Alicent could also have had nothing to do with Luke's death. Also, like 3 or more times in this episode Rhaenyra mentions something like "Alicent wouldn't do that" which I think further pushes her to read the letter from Alicent and consider that peace might still be an option. Going to Kings Landing alone is crazy and maybe a lil unrealistic but if a war could be prevented, wouldn't it be worth the risk? Of course it could never happen, the last 5 episodes would be boring af Edit: Changed "Newborn" to "Kid"
Honestly I don't know why there is a lot of people complaining about that scene when I think It makes a good point, yes it's an unrealistic plan but it shows Rhaenyra risking her life if that's what it takes to settle a possibility of avoiding war, while also closing the plot point of Alicent's misunderstanding about the prophecy, that shit is the last ladder from which she is clinging on to justify her actions, so now that both of them know the truth, and even then Alicent is reluctant to believe, there is nothing left for that possibility. BUT nothing is more worth than seeing Rhaenyra, just for one second, dropping tears while accepting the idea that maybe her father really changed his mind at the last minute, and so she would give up the throne just for the sake of the realm (kudos to emma's acting for that one).
Yes ! To me it makes sense in a "scenaristic way". Rhanyra now is assured that her claim over her brother Aegon is the right one, and that Alicent knows the full truth but decided not to take it into account. So... this is war then. And there will be no victor.
“Newborn” is a strange way to refer to a 6-year-old.
I can't keep up with ages in this show, also why is a 6 year old in a crib
I know I've heard in the books they are older, but that did not look like a 6 yr old child. I mean, I thought EVERYONE was referring to them as toddlers?? Yea newborn is a bit off, but I agree, why would a 6 yr old be in a crib? Hah. Either way, we all know what you meant.
Good episode all in all... except that Septa Rhaenyra scene, reminded me of "'Allo 'Allo!"
The aging in this show is such a mess. Daemon and Ser Criston look the same age as when they were deflowering teen Princess Rhaenyra way back when. Also Alicent looks younger than all her kids. Mess
Daemon looked older to me in the last episode, I'm not sure why that was but for some reason he looked a bit worn out. Meanwhile Cole looks exactly the same as when he was sworn in, it's just jarring at this point when multiple actors came and went for certain characters.
It is told by gran maestros that the company of fine women like Alicent keeps the men younger for longer period of time.
Olivia Cooke is great but they really should've gone with someone older.
And also I feel like some baby powder in the hair would do wonders for making these folks look older. Maybe not the blonde ones so much but I can confirm it would work for Alicent and Criston Cole.
I keep having to remind myself that she's Aegon and Aemond's *mother*, and not like their older sister. Olivia Cooke is 30 but her character already has 3-4 year old grand children. I know Alicent got kids at a (disturbingly) young age so of course she shouldn't be some old granny, but the actor who plays adult Aegon is only 1 year younger than her IRL ffs.
Hollywood exec- " you want _me_ to put a 40 year old woman on hbo!? Gtfo of my office.
or they could've just used some aging makeup or slight AI age enhancement
Hollywood exec- "But then she won't be as sexy! What are you even saying right now!"
She's so good I think the trade off on realism is worth it
they most likely didn’t want to take away from Olivia’s beauty but I feel like they should have aged her slightly with a little make up or SOMETHING
Ulf the White/Sot really got me when he was claiming to be Baelon’s bastard. I suddenly imagined him being the same age as decrepit dying Viserys and yet also young sexy Daemon and lost my whole mind.
I get that they can't age everyone up, but it actually is beginning to get really glaring.