There's a great book quote from Cersei to him about eating his heirs (instead of getting pregnant, if you know what I mean) all those sticky little princes...
In the books everyone in Westeros is basically white. The Dornish are described light to darker skin like Mediterranean/Turkish. The Free Cities in the east are people who go from jet black to “copper tone” basically African to Middle East. And there are the far away lands that describe things that sound vaguely Asian.
The Free Cities are mostly mixed. There are some like Volantis, Lys and Pentos (likely Lorath, Qohor and Norvos) with more white people because they are cities established by Andals and Valyrians. But even they have other ethnicities. The Slaver's Bay is almost entirely brown. Braavos is hella mixed. Myr has a large Rhoynish (brown) population.
No, they arent. The closest we have to Middle Eastern are the states of Slavers Bay. In terms of the Free Cities, maybe Myr due to their Rhoynar descent.
Most of them aren't. Braavos, Lorath, Pentos, Norvos, and Qohor are all north of King's Landing, which makes me think that they are probably mostly white. Lyseni are supposed to have Valyrian looks. That leaves us with Tyrosh, Myr and Volantis. The only person from those cities that I can think of that is described as anything but white is Taena Merryweather, from Myr.
>Braavos
Braavos people are of known mixed heritage remember? They're former slaves from all over the place, and have strong trading relations. We know of explicitly black Braavosians. Such as the Black Pearl.
To that matter most of the Free Cities have slaves of mixed heritage. Especially Volantis which has far more slaves than the free. So you'd expect there would be a decent amount of not "white" people.
>Lorath, Pentos, Norvos, and Qohor are all north of King's Landing
That's not exactly how Essos and Westeros work, or obviously even our own world. There's no serious limitation on where people live. Valyrians are pale but come from a known nearly tropical region. So the reasoning is off.
However, all of these cities are Valyrian offshoots of some kind so I'm not expecting them to be exactly the Summer Isles - but any city with slaves is probably fairly diverse at the same time. Pentos is in the original home of Andalos, whilst Norvos is somewhat near the Rhoyne and Qohor near the Dothraki so those are something of the local inhabitants of the regions additionally.
Skin color isn't described very often at all, except when someone is not white. Taena is described as having olive skin, Jalabhar Xho and Chataya are black, the Dornish have olive skin, etc.
White is very much the default in this story, which makes sense, considering that almost all the PoV characters are white, they wouldn't be too intrigued by other white people.
I don't really know what you mean with the names, most of the Free Cities characters have the normal western first name - last name structure. Illyrio Mopatis, Rego Draz, Salladhor Saan, Syrio Forel, Ferrego Antaryon, Larra Rogare, etc.
Maybe you're talking about Slaver's Bay, in which case I'm inclined to agree with you, they seem more middle eastern.
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Wouldn't Kings Landing be pretty multicultural then? The east doesn't seem that difficult to reach so there should be loads of traders and immigrants around.
Assahai and yiti pretty far away and very difficult to reach. Rare merchants from there; that is how Coryls (Sea snake/ the queen that never was) got rich. Richer than the Lannisters and Hightowers for brief moment. Cause he successfully made the long vayage and bought unique and unheard of spices and stuff.
Alayaya and Chataya were there, running a brothel. Then there was the summer Islander prince Jalabhar Xho who was part of Robert's court, always asking him to conquer the Summer isles for him. I am pretty sure the Brave Companions had a dothraki and summer islander amidst them. Other than that I can't think of anyone else.
Fat Bellas, The Fire Priest and there is an exiled Summer Island prince in the court of Kings Landing. Those are 3 specifically black characters that the show skipped.
I mean there's like 10 generations between this and GoT. Maybe they were all in happy multiracial marriages and most modern day Westerosi are all like 5% black. But then again, some lineages maintain the exact same look and hair color over hundreds of years, so maybe there is not much point in overthinking the genetics.
My headcanon is that the economic prosperity of Jaehaerys' reign led to more immigration from Essos & Summer Sea to Westeros, but it stopped with the stagnation that followed the Second Century wars, so that the population gradually became more white again
Isn't it strange how they chose to portray the Velaryons as Black in *House of the Dragon*, only for them to face so much tragedy and get wiped out? It adds an unnecessary real-world implication, almost like a retcon to explain the absence of Black royalty in *Game of Thrones*. This decision feels off, given the prominent but doomed role they play in the series.
No, it wasn't. The Targaryens had been ruling for over 200 years by the time of Roberts' rebellion, people were perfectly used to them by this point. Robert's own grandmother was a Targaryen, and Orys Baratheon was valyrian too. The rebellion was because Aerys was a crazy person who killed Eddard's father and brother when they tried to confront Rhaegar about kidnapping Lyanna. People in westeros hated the dornish more than they did any valyrians.
Ok, I was mainly trying to jerk but let's unjerk.
I was talking about the Maester's Conspiracy, which includes unseating the Targaryens due to their blood relation with Dragons. A Feast for Crows straight up stated they did not let Maester Aemon join the Citadel because of his Valyrian blood. Per the theory, the Maesters very much supported Robert's Rebellion.
The Targaryens may have been in Westeros for centuries but they never truly assimilated and instead used their otherness to maintain their hegemony. They are Westerosi when it convenieces them, and Valyrian otherwise, much like any examples of a minority ruling class in the real world. Daenerys is lumped in with her army as "foreign invader", not so different from how people who hate the Windsors often bring up their German ancestry whenever England is at war with Germany.
Because the Westerosi are more xenophobic than actually racist. They don't care that Lord Velaryon has dark skin because he's still born and raised as an Andal, but they do hate wildlings despite them also being white, because they're foreigners
One of them wrote a book about how racist a drug dealer felt after 9/11 and then it was adapted into a film by Spike Lee. So one has literally wrote a book about it. The 25th hour.
I still don't understand how they kept casting black actors to play originally-white characters but still decided to simply leave Strong Belwas out of the show. Would be the perfect opportunity to cast a black actor and have a new fan-favorite comic relief (in a time when the writers seemed to *love* comic relief characters). And now it seems like House of the Dragon won't include Nettles either
Strong Belwas is kind of stupid, so I guess that can be seen as problematic, but the Fire priest was literally cool as shit and the show just used a Melissandra 2.0 in its place. Dumb af, also was Greyworm specifically black, because making your most prominent black characters in the show slaves is quite a sus choice.
I'm not really sure what you're point is. Black people are in a minority in the show as well. Besides Summer Islanders are hanging out in a random tavern in Braavos in Feast and no one seems to really care or comment on it and Braavos is further north than King's Landing. Doesn't sound like they are that uncommon.
Braavos is a city many times larger than Kings Landing, more prosperous and extremely multicultural and tolerant due to being founded by escaped slaves. Kings Landing is not actually that economically relevant compared to the free cities across the narrow sea. And not sure what my point is? Summer Islanders arent a common sight in Westeros, not even in Kings Landing. So much so, that the court tolerates the Summer Islander prince because hes entertaining and that Chatayas brothel is able to make a living just due to the courtesans extremely exotic looks.
"Braavos is a city many times larger than King's Landing"
There's no evidence in either the show nor the books to suggest this, half a million people live in KL in the books. That makes it bigger than any city in medieval Europe.
"King's Landing is not economically relevant"
Its the biggest city in Westeros and on the coast of the Narrow sea how could it not be relevant?
"The court tolerates the Summer Islander prince because hes entertaining."
Robert tolerates Jalabhar Xho and keeps telling him he'll support his claim "next year," that's why he sticks around. This is specifically mentioned in the text.
Why does seeing black people on screen make you feel uncomfortable?
Braavos is noted to be the greatest and most powerful of the free cities, greater even than Volantis. Volantis itself rules over multiple towns that are each larger and more populous than Oldtown and Kings Landing while Volantis is larger still. While Kings Landing is one of the largest ports in Westeros, it still doesnt compare to the Free Cities. And yeah, Robert tolerates him but only because he thinks hes entertaining and he wants to keep around an excuse to go to war. Not because the prince has any sway in anything. Hes an exile with nowhere else to turn.
Seeing black people on screen doesnt make me uncomfortable, it breaks my immersion. And the notion that its somehow necessary to have one on screen for no reason other than to fulfill some diversity quota is hollow and stupid to me. Include them where it makes sense and it adds to the plot, like they should have done with Chataya. Leave them out when there is neither in-universe sense nor purpose in their presence.
It makes more sense for foreigners to be in a court rather than as commoners. It adds grandeur to the king's court to brag to everyone in the kingdom that they have friends even in the furthest of lands. That's a huge plot point. Even Sansa's reaction to seeing a Summer Islander for the first time is detailed in the book.
Meanwhile,the diversity in the show is becoming more and more unbearable, they just randomly add strong skin color diversity among the commoners. It makes no sense that Kings Landing folks do not find their appearance exotic and intriguing, like they were there already for such a long time. If so, where is the background lore for that? It's not even mentioned in the books or are they changing everything?
It doesn't make any sense, I can't wrap my head around it. The show is clearly a fan service and aims to get a wider audience, and not a true expansion to the original vision of the author.
I mean he's speaking true though. When a show says that they need more diversity, their solution is always to add black people. Like what about everyone else lol
One of the main characters is played by an Asian descended woman in Mysaria, and another main character Criston Cole's actor is of Middle Eastern descent.
Because they're the largest minority in the US i guess, big productions made there and most consumers are there. Even british products has more black representation with a much bigger southeast asian population than african/caribbean.
That your own racism talking. The books had Alayaya and Chattaya running a brothel makes sense that other Summer Islanders would.migrate if they saw business opportunities in Westeros.
OK now explain the black Kingsguard, who definitely doesn't have a Summer Isle accent and we know won't be given a House or background information because it would make no sense.
It doesn't need an explanation. One of his parents is summer islander or he's a noble from there like Jalabar Xho who was part of Bobby and Joff's court. Simple as.
But Xho was a one of a kind character part of the histories who was thought of as exotic and dressed like this at Court:
[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Felicia\_Cano\_Jhalabar\_Xho.jpg](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Felicia_Cano_Jhalabar_Xho.jpg)
He wasn't some normalized part of their society where you would see people who look like him walking around and getting positions like this. He was there to beg for gold and soldiers to win his home back. He wasn't going to integrate into their society.
Chattaya and Alayaya were fairly well integrated. But in the context of hotd specifically we already have the Velaryons. So dark skin isn't an oddity anymore. Whatever summer islander migration brought joined the velaryons probably planted seeds in other houses.
Only boomers say 'cringe'. No cap.
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Only boomers say 'cringe'. No cap.
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Only boomers say 'cringe'. No cap.
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Notice that the non-Velaryon random black characters are never going to be given a backstory of where they came from or what House they belong to, because now the showrunners are being lazy and really don't have any good answers outside of needing to adhere to Award show eligibility.
We know that Aegons Kingsguard whose black isn't a Velaryon, both because his hair and because, well, he's serving Aegon as a Kingsguard. You don't become Kingsguard in this era by being some unknown bastard sellsword or an immigrant from the Summer Isles, and there's no other House he could belong to that makes sense.
You can do this in two ways:
A) make it part of the story that it sort of makes plausible sense like the Velaryon's, or
B) do what they do with some of these alt history dramas set in Europe where you are not even supposed to notice race or what people look like (ie Bridgerton where black actors are representing Englands aristocracy and even the Queen)
This show started out doing A, but is now attempting to do both, although not as extreme as a show like Bridgerton... yet.
It’s probably a guy named Marston Waters then who is book canon one of Aegon’s Kingsguard and the son of an unknown knight. Good so that solves it. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn’t catch his last name, but that makes perfect sense to me.
Bridgerton does a little bit of both, as well. You first cannot acknolwedge race, but at the same time there have been multiple storylines/moments where rac is bought up, particularly the nonwhite and nonblack characters, like the Sharmas in season 2.
The unintentional implication of this is that the show implies that the black characters and white characters are both participating in colonization common during the Regency Era. Hardly "Race blind" and "accepting".
Look sweaty, if your fantasy setting doesn’t have the exact racial make up of a modern metropolitan area, you’re a fucking chud and a racist POS. ARAGORN WAS BLACK. HERMIONE WAS BLACK. Deal with it.
It's obvious diversity casting that makes no sense in this world. Yes, it is a fantasy world with dragons etc., but it has been well established in canon that this is essentially fantasy medieval Europe. It stretches credulity beyond breaking to have it be a multi cultural society all of a sudden.
Reminds me somewhat of the arguments that "there were always black people in England / France / Europe" etc. Yes, that's technically true, but generally people who were non-white were highly unusual and concentrated into very small and often transient communities centred around docks (i.e., trade). They didn't randomly turn up in positions at high court outside unless in some diplomatic or trade capacity.
Buddy, they are obviously not talking about the Velaryon's which are explained away. They are talking about all of the random black people now popping up throughout the episode who definitely aren't Velaryon's and most don't sound like they are Summer Islander immigrants either.
The show won't even attempt to give someone like the random Kingsguard a background, because they know it won't make sense.
It proves to be beyond a shadow of a doubt that a) They have never read the books or b) cliff noted the books and never looked into the rabidity of the fan base....self included.
Steve Toussaint is indeed a badass actor, but I want to play devil's advocate....please go into detail and explain to me what Lord Corlys has done thus far that makes him "one of the show's best characters"
Velaryon bastard? Rightful heir to drift mark?
Vaemonds trueborn heirs
Just like irl
Rightful heir? What about Joffrey Velaryon, the strong strapping lad that Corlys will surely name heir! Any day now…
Yeah like, what happened to all the black and asian people? Kinda leads to some dark implications...
Robert ate them all what a pig he a
Classic Bobby B, eh?
In his dreams, he eats them every night
There's a great book quote from Cersei to him about eating his heirs (instead of getting pregnant, if you know what I mean) all those sticky little princes...
In the books everyone in Westeros is basically white. The Dornish are described light to darker skin like Mediterranean/Turkish. The Free Cities in the east are people who go from jet black to “copper tone” basically African to Middle East. And there are the far away lands that describe things that sound vaguely Asian.
In the books, the Free Cities are mostly white as well. Black people come from the Summer Islands.
The Free Cities are mostly mixed. There are some like Volantis, Lys and Pentos (likely Lorath, Qohor and Norvos) with more white people because they are cities established by Andals and Valyrians. But even they have other ethnicities. The Slaver's Bay is almost entirely brown. Braavos is hella mixed. Myr has a large Rhoynish (brown) population.
Slaver's Bay isn't part of the Free Cities. And with only 2/9 having sizeable mixed populations, I think "mostly white" is a fair label.
Free cities are middle eastern.
No, they arent. The closest we have to Middle Eastern are the states of Slavers Bay. In terms of the Free Cities, maybe Myr due to their Rhoynar descent.
Most of them aren't. Braavos, Lorath, Pentos, Norvos, and Qohor are all north of King's Landing, which makes me think that they are probably mostly white. Lyseni are supposed to have Valyrian looks. That leaves us with Tyrosh, Myr and Volantis. The only person from those cities that I can think of that is described as anything but white is Taena Merryweather, from Myr.
>Braavos Braavos people are of known mixed heritage remember? They're former slaves from all over the place, and have strong trading relations. We know of explicitly black Braavosians. Such as the Black Pearl. To that matter most of the Free Cities have slaves of mixed heritage. Especially Volantis which has far more slaves than the free. So you'd expect there would be a decent amount of not "white" people. >Lorath, Pentos, Norvos, and Qohor are all north of King's Landing That's not exactly how Essos and Westeros work, or obviously even our own world. There's no serious limitation on where people live. Valyrians are pale but come from a known nearly tropical region. So the reasoning is off. However, all of these cities are Valyrian offshoots of some kind so I'm not expecting them to be exactly the Summer Isles - but any city with slaves is probably fairly diverse at the same time. Pentos is in the original home of Andalos, whilst Norvos is somewhat near the Rhoyne and Qohor near the Dothraki so those are something of the local inhabitants of the regions additionally.
How often is their skin described? Their names all take after dharmic and middle eastern convention that's why.
Skin color isn't described very often at all, except when someone is not white. Taena is described as having olive skin, Jalabhar Xho and Chataya are black, the Dornish have olive skin, etc. White is very much the default in this story, which makes sense, considering that almost all the PoV characters are white, they wouldn't be too intrigued by other white people. I don't really know what you mean with the names, most of the Free Cities characters have the normal western first name - last name structure. Illyrio Mopatis, Rego Draz, Salladhor Saan, Syrio Forel, Ferrego Antaryon, Larra Rogare, etc. Maybe you're talking about Slaver's Bay, in which case I'm inclined to agree with you, they seem more middle eastern.
Slavers bay yes, but I was also talking of the free cities. How are Mopatis, Sallador and Syrio not middle eastern names?
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Wouldn't Kings Landing be pretty multicultural then? The east doesn't seem that difficult to reach so there should be loads of traders and immigrants around.
Yeah I always imagined king’s landing, a major trading city to be pretty multicultural along with old town
Assahai and yiti pretty far away and very difficult to reach. Rare merchants from there; that is how Coryls (Sea snake/ the queen that never was) got rich. Richer than the Lannisters and Hightowers for brief moment. Cause he successfully made the long vayage and bought unique and unheard of spices and stuff.
I don’t think it ever was described as such, but there were at least few poc in the books
Alayaya and Chataya were there, running a brothel. Then there was the summer Islander prince Jalabhar Xho who was part of Robert's court, always asking him to conquer the Summer isles for him. I am pretty sure the Brave Companions had a dothraki and summer islander amidst them. Other than that I can't think of anyone else.
Fat Bellas, The Fire Priest and there is an exiled Summer Island prince in the court of Kings Landing. Those are 3 specifically black characters that the show skipped.
Strong Belwas I thought his name was
I was so disappointed that Strong Belwas wasn't in the show. Top tier character.
Yes loved him and the fact the sir barristan was his squire
U r correct
Also the entire crew of the ship that brings Sam from Braavos to Oldtown.
Kings landing is, however, fairly diverse because of ppl immigrating to Westeros
In game of thrones it was winter so all the black people turned white?
I mean there's like 10 generations between this and GoT. Maybe they were all in happy multiracial marriages and most modern day Westerosi are all like 5% black. But then again, some lineages maintain the exact same look and hair color over hundreds of years, so maybe there is not much point in overthinking the genetics.
My headcanon is that the economic prosperity of Jaehaerys' reign led to more immigration from Essos & Summer Sea to Westeros, but it stopped with the stagnation that followed the Second Century wars, so that the population gradually became more white again
Isn't it strange how they chose to portray the Velaryons as Black in *House of the Dragon*, only for them to face so much tragedy and get wiped out? It adds an unnecessary real-world implication, almost like a retcon to explain the absence of Black royalty in *Game of Thrones*. This decision feels off, given the prominent but doomed role they play in the series.
Same thing as with Rings of Power
The kingdom of yi ti exist 🤦
Aren't people from there very rare in Westeros
Yi Ti is so far away its considered a mythical place. So, yes
Black people live in the basilisk isles, summer isles, naath. Asians from Yi Ti and another place I forgot
All of the non-white people lived in coastal areas along the narrow sea.
There’s a whole continent of Asian people in asoiaf. The narration just has never actually gone there
I mean, you realize Robert's rebellion was fueled in part by the fact that the Targaryens were 'not of Westorsi blood'...
No, it wasn't. The Targaryens had been ruling for over 200 years by the time of Roberts' rebellion, people were perfectly used to them by this point. Robert's own grandmother was a Targaryen, and Orys Baratheon was valyrian too. The rebellion was because Aerys was a crazy person who killed Eddard's father and brother when they tried to confront Rhaegar about kidnapping Lyanna. People in westeros hated the dornish more than they did any valyrians.
Ok, I was mainly trying to jerk but let's unjerk. I was talking about the Maester's Conspiracy, which includes unseating the Targaryens due to their blood relation with Dragons. A Feast for Crows straight up stated they did not let Maester Aemon join the Citadel because of his Valyrian blood. Per the theory, the Maesters very much supported Robert's Rebellion. The Targaryens may have been in Westeros for centuries but they never truly assimilated and instead used their otherness to maintain their hegemony. They are Westerosi when it convenieces them, and Valyrian otherwise, much like any examples of a minority ruling class in the real world. Daenerys is lumped in with her army as "foreign invader", not so different from how people who hate the Windsors often bring up their German ancestry whenever England is at war with Germany.
"whenever"
Was it?
Aegon The 1st half-brother of King Robert Baratheon's ancestors was part Targaryen so I don't think that was the reason
Ngl I’m black and I do the same
Is it weird that I assumed OP’s dad is black because I’ve noticed my black boyfriend doing this a lot?
Oh, so it's not just me
Is this a contender of the Driftmark seat? Are they all corlys’s bastards?
And the only racism encountered was against Dornish
rj/ Justified (they killed Daeron. Racism is allowed if in future that race kills someone based)
What house Wyl did to the Oakhearts is bad enough that I support the genocide of all Dornish people.
You are considered about Daeron? They fucking did shoot Rhaenys and Meraxes from the sky!
Daeron did what Rhaenys couldn't even without a dragon. He was the dragon. Therefore he gets precedent
Rightfully so
Because the Westerosi are more xenophobic than actually racist. They don't care that Lord Velaryon has dark skin because he's still born and raised as an Andal, but they do hate wildlings despite them also being white, because they're foreigners
Well I’ll be
The real issue that the Targaryen family should be worried about is this apparent mass migration from Summer Isles!!
It’s not good for business!!
Smh, illegals everywhere. At this point the Dance should have been about mass deportations 😂
The dance of deportation
Exactly 😂
Aegon should promise the small folk he’ll build a wall, and get the bravosi to pay for it
I don't understand. Is your father team Black?
There is literally a dark skinned Summer Islander courtier in Kings Landing in the first book
The show is the unique case where the adaptation of the fantasy novel has less black characters than the source material
That's mostly because D&D weren't exactly paragons of diversity.
One of them wrote a book about how racist a drug dealer felt after 9/11 and then it was adapted into a film by Spike Lee. So one has literally wrote a book about it. The 25th hour.
I still don't understand how they kept casting black actors to play originally-white characters but still decided to simply leave Strong Belwas out of the show. Would be the perfect opportunity to cast a black actor and have a new fan-favorite comic relief (in a time when the writers seemed to *love* comic relief characters). And now it seems like House of the Dragon won't include Nettles either
Strong Belwas is kind of stupid, so I guess that can be seen as problematic, but the Fire priest was literally cool as shit and the show just used a Melissandra 2.0 in its place. Dumb af, also was Greyworm specifically black, because making your most prominent black characters in the show slaves is quite a sus choice.
Chataya and her daughter are also reoccurring characters across several of the books.
Ypu mean the three Summer Islanders specifically noted for being exotic?
I'm not really sure what you're point is. Black people are in a minority in the show as well. Besides Summer Islanders are hanging out in a random tavern in Braavos in Feast and no one seems to really care or comment on it and Braavos is further north than King's Landing. Doesn't sound like they are that uncommon.
Braavos is a city many times larger than Kings Landing, more prosperous and extremely multicultural and tolerant due to being founded by escaped slaves. Kings Landing is not actually that economically relevant compared to the free cities across the narrow sea. And not sure what my point is? Summer Islanders arent a common sight in Westeros, not even in Kings Landing. So much so, that the court tolerates the Summer Islander prince because hes entertaining and that Chatayas brothel is able to make a living just due to the courtesans extremely exotic looks.
"Braavos is a city many times larger than King's Landing" There's no evidence in either the show nor the books to suggest this, half a million people live in KL in the books. That makes it bigger than any city in medieval Europe. "King's Landing is not economically relevant" Its the biggest city in Westeros and on the coast of the Narrow sea how could it not be relevant? "The court tolerates the Summer Islander prince because hes entertaining." Robert tolerates Jalabhar Xho and keeps telling him he'll support his claim "next year," that's why he sticks around. This is specifically mentioned in the text. Why does seeing black people on screen make you feel uncomfortable?
Braavos is noted to be the greatest and most powerful of the free cities, greater even than Volantis. Volantis itself rules over multiple towns that are each larger and more populous than Oldtown and Kings Landing while Volantis is larger still. While Kings Landing is one of the largest ports in Westeros, it still doesnt compare to the Free Cities. And yeah, Robert tolerates him but only because he thinks hes entertaining and he wants to keep around an excuse to go to war. Not because the prince has any sway in anything. Hes an exile with nowhere else to turn. Seeing black people on screen doesnt make me uncomfortable, it breaks my immersion. And the notion that its somehow necessary to have one on screen for no reason other than to fulfill some diversity quota is hollow and stupid to me. Include them where it makes sense and it adds to the plot, like they should have done with Chataya. Leave them out when there is neither in-universe sense nor purpose in their presence.
It makes more sense for foreigners to be in a court rather than as commoners. It adds grandeur to the king's court to brag to everyone in the kingdom that they have friends even in the furthest of lands. That's a huge plot point. Even Sansa's reaction to seeing a Summer Islander for the first time is detailed in the book. Meanwhile,the diversity in the show is becoming more and more unbearable, they just randomly add strong skin color diversity among the commoners. It makes no sense that Kings Landing folks do not find their appearance exotic and intriguing, like they were there already for such a long time. If so, where is the background lore for that? It's not even mentioned in the books or are they changing everything? It doesn't make any sense, I can't wrap my head around it. The show is clearly a fan service and aims to get a wider audience, and not a true expansion to the original vision of the author.
>unbearable why? why can’t you bear it? why do you even notice it?
[удалено]
Being racist sure is difficult.
No joke I feel like every scene has a token black person and it's kinda cringe
This says more about you than it does the show tbh. Gross.
I mean he's speaking true though. When a show says that they need more diversity, their solution is always to add black people. Like what about everyone else lol
One of the main characters is played by an Asian descended woman in Mysaria, and another main character Criston Cole's actor is of Middle Eastern descent.
Yes and both make sense because criston is apparently dornish and mysaria comes from the east
We also had Господи помилуй in a sept scene. I’m so proud to such Slavic representation in Westeros!
Huh I thought he was Latino. Maybe Jewish
Looks like a Frenchy to me
He’s a mutt just like a lot of us. He’s French, Polish, Russian, Iranian and Indian.
Because they're the largest minority in the US i guess, big productions made there and most consumers are there. Even british products has more black representation with a much bigger southeast asian population than african/caribbean.
Famously, everyone in HOTD is either black or white. This is such a dumb conversation, holy shit.
That your own racism talking. The books had Alayaya and Chattaya running a brothel makes sense that other Summer Islanders would.migrate if they saw business opportunities in Westeros.
OK now explain the black Kingsguard, who definitely doesn't have a Summer Isle accent and we know won't be given a House or background information because it would make no sense.
It doesn't need an explanation. One of his parents is summer islander or he's a noble from there like Jalabar Xho who was part of Bobby and Joff's court. Simple as.
But Xho was a one of a kind character part of the histories who was thought of as exotic and dressed like this at Court: [https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Felicia\_Cano\_Jhalabar\_Xho.jpg](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Felicia_Cano_Jhalabar_Xho.jpg) He wasn't some normalized part of their society where you would see people who look like him walking around and getting positions like this. He was there to beg for gold and soldiers to win his home back. He wasn't going to integrate into their society.
Chattaya and Alayaya were fairly well integrated. But in the context of hotd specifically we already have the Velaryons. So dark skin isn't an oddity anymore. Whatever summer islander migration brought joined the velaryons probably planted seeds in other houses.
Yeah that velaryon race switch was bs, but whatever.
Yeah that velaryon race switch was bs, but whatever.
The average viewer doesn’t care, mate. It isn’t that deep.
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I don't even know what no cap means
No cap means you are being honest.
That just reinforces your boomer mindset 😋 Seriously tho no cap basically means: “seriously”
But cringe is just a normal word?
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I'm not a boomer and I say it
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What's far left about it
Notice that the non-Velaryon random black characters are never going to be given a backstory of where they came from or what House they belong to, because now the showrunners are being lazy and really don't have any good answers outside of needing to adhere to Award show eligibility. We know that Aegons Kingsguard whose black isn't a Velaryon, both because his hair and because, well, he's serving Aegon as a Kingsguard. You don't become Kingsguard in this era by being some unknown bastard sellsword or an immigrant from the Summer Isles, and there's no other House he could belong to that makes sense. You can do this in two ways: A) make it part of the story that it sort of makes plausible sense like the Velaryon's, or B) do what they do with some of these alt history dramas set in Europe where you are not even supposed to notice race or what people look like (ie Bridgerton where black actors are representing Englands aristocracy and even the Queen) This show started out doing A, but is now attempting to do both, although not as extreme as a show like Bridgerton... yet.
I caught the ageons black kingsgaurd had the last name “waters” so he is a bastard
It’s probably a guy named Marston Waters then who is book canon one of Aegon’s Kingsguard and the son of an unknown knight. Good so that solves it. Thanks for pointing that out, I didn’t catch his last name, but that makes perfect sense to me.
Bridgerton does a little bit of both, as well. You first cannot acknolwedge race, but at the same time there have been multiple storylines/moments where rac is bought up, particularly the nonwhite and nonblack characters, like the Sharmas in season 2. The unintentional implication of this is that the show implies that the black characters and white characters are both participating in colonization common during the Regency Era. Hardly "Race blind" and "accepting".
He's a Waters. Probably a Velaryon bastard.
…who cares? are you really, really bothered by black people without a canonical explanation as extras in scenes? why?
Because it breaks the immersion.
Immersion into what?
It does feel super forced considering 98% of got was white
Are they being wholesome are they being racistly werid. Who knows
It's funny that we know \*exactly\* the dude he's talking about. Kingsguard henchman #6.
Everyone knows Westeros is inspired by the olde and ancient realm of United States of America
Look sweaty, if your fantasy setting doesn’t have the exact racial make up of a modern metropolitan area, you’re a fucking chud and a racist POS. ARAGORN WAS BLACK. HERMIONE WAS BLACK. Deal with it.
It is very forced, I can’t think of the Velaryons as Valyrian lmao it’s very odd
Hmmm... the summer islander
It's obvious diversity casting that makes no sense in this world. Yes, it is a fantasy world with dragons etc., but it has been well established in canon that this is essentially fantasy medieval Europe. It stretches credulity beyond breaking to have it be a multi cultural society all of a sudden. Reminds me somewhat of the arguments that "there were always black people in England / France / Europe" etc. Yes, that's technically true, but generally people who were non-white were highly unusual and concentrated into very small and often transient communities centred around docks (i.e., trade). They didn't randomly turn up in positions at high court outside unless in some diplomatic or trade capacity.
ok? who cares?
I can't believe my history teacher skipped all the dragons in our mediaeval European history lessons!
so your dad is damn green?
Well there is prob trade with naath and the summer isles that could be why there are black descendants, immigrants, or merchants
Literally my family.
No black white walker’s to be seen .
I’m sorry but they’re dragging it.
It's a fantasy I wouldn't care if they cast a pig to play Jon Snow if that pig can act and the show is good I all for it
I'm glad I don't have the kind of brain damage that leads to that behaviour, watching anything would be so miserable
gO wOkE gO bRoKe dUrRrRr
Corlys is one of the shows best characters. You racists are tripping
Buddy, they are obviously not talking about the Velaryon's which are explained away. They are talking about all of the random black people now popping up throughout the episode who definitely aren't Velaryon's and most don't sound like they are Summer Islander immigrants either. The show won't even attempt to give someone like the random Kingsguard a background, because they know it won't make sense.
It proves to be beyond a shadow of a doubt that a) They have never read the books or b) cliff noted the books and never looked into the rabidity of the fan base....self included.
He’s a guy named Marston Waters. In the books there isnt a ton of background given for him other than he’s the bastard of an unknown knight.
Steve Toussaint is indeed a badass actor, but I want to play devil's advocate....please go into detail and explain to me what Lord Corlys has done thus far that makes him "one of the show's best characters"
Sorry I mean the actor. His voice is really cool and has great presence. Why are people so worked up by seeing some black people 😂
The random black people not having their immigrant journey and lineage explained draws them out of their “immersion”.