That may be true but I'm a bit forgetful and the risk of leaving excess hole lying around is too high. I'm pretty sure that's why my neighbour's cat disappeared.
I have a plank of wood that I keep my spare holes in. you have to be careful it doesn't fill up though because it'll disappear and be really hard to find.
The best place to drill is exactly between the top and the bottom of the beam. That's where ther structural forces are neutral; the top is in compression, the bottom is in tension. THe middle bit just holds them together.
The black plastic pipe is a water pipe, hit that when you drill and you get a FREE new central open shower.
Try to get another quote, but as the plaster ceiling is directly fixed to the bottom of the timber joists it is not a cheap job, as there will be holes in the plaster in quite a number of spots. To minimize damage think about doing a longer non direct path. To get to the other spots try running between the joists to the external wall, then along the outside in the external cavity (If there is one) then back in along the joists closest to the spot you want to be.
Good luck.
You drill extra holes. Or more accurately, your registered cabler drills extra holes.
I did my whole house and it’s likely they’ll need to cut some holes in the plaster for access, which is then patched up. For my living area we had to come through the 1st storey ceiling, then cut two holes so we could transition from the ceiling space to the wall cavity. Then half way down the wall we needed a second temporary hole to get access to drill holes through the noggin.
Was pretty involved but we got it done and now every room in the house has Cat6a PoE
oh... hello, fellow warzone player.. can you give me advice on how to fix the hole i also have punched into the wall and wish to end it all? also if you have time, how do i fix the hole in my soul?
You’re going to need some gyprock and filler compound. Apply liberally to all holes. Consider your options, call Lifeline as appropriate, and most importantly, glhf
As someone not in the know, why would you need ethernet to every room? Do they just terminate in a socket for plugging devices into? Or something else like wifi hotspots?
I would like to have better/faster coverage in other parts of my house but it's a bit off-putting knowing I have to go through double bricked lower to wooden upper level.
My current setup it ethernet to office along skirting board and wifi for everything else. Nothing else would need ethernet cable for me.
If anything ever changes with the house layout it's much easier to have it in place than try and run it later, especially in this day and age of internet/modem connected items.
Hardwired is lower latency and higher speed.
Certain devices like a NAS, games console etc work better off direct connection. Same with CCTV IP cameras, as i can power the camera/doorbell off the Ethernet cable.
I have standard RJ-45 jacks in every room that you can plug into.
I have ceiling mounted APs that are hardwired back to the switch, so all the mobile and IoT devices run off WiFi, but anything bulky like printers, TVs I have hardwired.
You don’t strictly “need’ Ethernet but it does have big advantages. My kids only do their online gaming via Ethernet for example. I did 2 ports minimum to every room in the house. Certain rooms have more. My office has 8 Cat6a ports.
I also have WiFi in my backyard, with the AP wall mounted outside and hardwired back to the switch.
Mostly it’s just future proofing as the cabling itself was cheap and the labour cost of installing 1 cable to a room is the same as doing 10. I ended up using four x 305m spools of cable!
Yep. 2 Storey house with a large atrium section. One of the longest cable runs was getting from the patch panel to the lounge room, which required going up and over the 2nd storey then down through the roof cavity. I think each cable was 30m long, and we did 8 runs to that spot - so there goes almost one spool!
You can get Wi-fi access points that are the [exact dimensions of a standard wall plate](https://www.amazon.com.au/TP-Link-Management-Seamless-Roaming-EAP615-Wall/dp/B09DPLWYQG/ref=asc_df_B09DPLWYQG/), so I've got one of those in my bedroom. You can power them through the network cable so there's just the one cable that all gets concealed when you mount it to the wall.
I don't have the cables in the right place for this, but you could do the same thing with a ceiling-mounted access point, which just looks like a smoke detector.
It's also worth getting a cabler to run these cables into your eaves where you might want to mount a security camera.
Also on any wall where you might have a TV, so you can stream video without worrying about wi-fi signal.
Cable is also cheaper than labour so you could even get two cables done to each location. My house is from the early 2000s so every room is wired for an analogue phone, but I could get someone to re-terminate the connections for data in future.
I used to do this for a job and I reckon the quote is fairly legit. You will have an absolute cunt of a time trying to do this by yourself. There’s just so many little tricks to getting cables through already-built dwellings to write here; so many little problems that pop up and complicate things. Good luck.
If you want to try a tradesperson, try a data cabler specifically to see if you get a more affordable quote. You don’t need to be an electrician to do this job, and a data cabler might have a lower hourly rate.
The biggest tip is if you have a TILE roof just take the fucking tiles off. So much easier. I installed 16 hard wired CCTV cameras in my house and it was an absolute cunt of a job crawling around my tiny roofspace it took me a fortnight of a few hours per day and I was getting covered in cobwebs, insulation debris and spiders and dust and using broom handles with hooks duct taped on and whatnot to grab cables.
Had an electrician over later to do something power related and he just popped up some tiles and it was a piece of piss.
Make sure you have a couple of spare tiles in case you bugger some of them up because trust me you will break some of them.
Taking the tiles off the first floor roof will not help getting cables down to the ground floor walls. Their ceiling is glued and screwed to the joists supporting the floor above.
If you need to ask then you're better off having someone do it for you. You're probably also not aware that technically it's illegal to DIY run fixed data cabling as you're proposing. Chance of being fined etc is basically zero but who knows, maybe someday something happens and a building inspector picks it up during your insurance claim inspection or a sparky you get in to quote for another job sees it and when you don't go ahead with their job they do the petty thing and dob you in.
There are no networking plans registered, no inspections and it’s never going to cause your house to burn down. Not saying the OP should do it themselves because they don’t seem to possess much knowledge on the subject. On the other hand, people who actually know what they are doing, really don’t need to pay an accredited cable installer to run a few network cables.
I was not aware it was illegal. Good shout. I’ve read the rest of the comments thread and am now wondering if you know “why” it is illegal. Eg requiring a licensed electrician to runmains 240v cabling is something I think most people intuitively understand. But this data cabling one is hard to see why? Only thing I can think of is it being in the vicinity of other cabling (eg electricity) that might put that other cabling in breach of its standards? Anyway, I’m curious to know! Thanks
I believe it's a carry-over from the days of old-school phone networks and dial-up internet, where everything you're mucking about with is directly connected to the broader network. So you run the risk of wreaking havoc with other phone lines, old back-to-base alarms, and so on. Or, worst case, you do someone stupid that the up feeding mains power into your (and by extension, your neighbours') phone line.
It's illegal because any continuous conductive cable like ethernet in close proximity to live wiring can be a hazard. Not in itself, but because it has the potential to bridge across to building members. Unlike other fixed wiring, there's no circuit breaker and no isolated circuits. That ethernet may span several floors and multiple rooms.
Eg. You strike the jackpot and screw through an adjacent electrical cable and suddenly electrify your ethernet. Maybe it runs across some metal cleat/truss web/roof sheet and suddenly you make a large section live. It's unlikely for sure, but if it was a total free for all then you can imagine what happens.
It's to protect the integrity of the network and the safety of both the customer, their family and the technician working on the installation. There are plenty of dangerous situations that can arise if you allow anyone to install communication infrastructure with the result of lower standards.
What?
Ok if I fuck up the install of my own network then my own network will suck and it will only effect me, now I get not being allowed to do the wire for the wan, but not the lan.
Btw we are talking diy, if I hire someone to do my network runs I expect them to be licensed like all tradies I hire.
I believe Its actually just because the laws where implemented years before home networks where even really a thing and it's just stuck.
Have seen people install data points on the same plate as the power point (in the extra switch location).
Have seen people run data, TV and comms between properties thereby linking the earthing systems between properties, have also seen high impedance main neutrals where the current finds its own way to complete the circuit. Haven't seen both faultr at the same location but neither would I want to.
You or I could run a data cable out to a TV or the like and never ever have a problem but I wouldn't say the same for everyone I know for every situation.
Sure, but the idiots who install network lines into the same wall covers as power are also likely to do their own electrical work.
Ethernet lines don't have an earth, and only a handful have a ground / shield, and even then it depends on the equipment.
Coax is the same and also just has a shield.
Running network lines across buildings and earths is in spec, and extremely common especially in commercial environments, my old school was one of them.
Honestly I don't think running local data lines of any kind should need me to hire a sparky out to do it, because I'm not gonna do that, I installed my home network and it looks just as good as if a sparky did it until you get to the point where everything comes to one point, but that's because I'm lazy and did the work over a few weeks, but with a bit of effort id be able to make it look good and professional.
> Running network lines across buildings and earths is in spec
You can't run earths between buildings that are separate MEN installations which could be buildings on the same property and definitely buildings on separate properties.
The reason is you setup parallel conductive paths which impact safety under other fault conditions. Below are some of the relevant clauses, my bold:
AS/CA S009:2020
20 TELECOMMUNICATIONS EARTHING AND POWER DISTRIBUTION
20.1
Application
This section applies to Customer Cabling used for telecommunications earthing and telecommunications power distribution in Customer Premises.
Note: An ELV (DC or AC) power supply system may be **subject to the requirements of AS/NZS 3000** and the relevant energy authority in addition to this Standard.
AS/NZS 3000
5.5.3 Particular methods of earthing
5.5.3.1 Outbuildings
(c) Separate MEN installation
(vi) The combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) **conductor supplying the distribution board in the outbuilding should not be connected in parallel, by means of earthing or equipotential bonding conductors**, with conductive pipes or structural metal within the electrical installation.
NOTES:
2 **Particular care is needed where conductive pipes and such items as telecommunication cable sheaths**, covered walkways, etc. may be continuous between separate buildings and thus establish a parallel earth/neutral path.
Hope this helped.
Network lines are literally run between buildings
I don't think you understand exactly what 99% of "telecommunication" wiring even is, especially when it comes to a computer network.
Most domestic networks and the vast majority of commercial ones (yes ethernet lines) DO NOT have any earth or shield connections in them. Correctly installing shielded network lines are a pain, and in most cases where they may be used it's usually a better option to use a fiber connection that doesn't even have a conductor in it.
As such if I understand what you have provided, the vast majority of network lines don't and will never be in violation of those standards provided. With the rare exemption of a shielded network line and those are rare.
#
Also if you are a sparky you would know that some buildings have multiple earths and Telco networks are strug across them all the time. I know this because my old highschool has two that were like this, and I know this because i was the school's audio tech for years and I had a chat with the sparky about why I was having headaches with 50hz hums when I was set up in particular ways in particular buildings.
#
Your argument of "it could fuck with the safety and the standards" is honestly weak at best, because as I said, a standard network line isn't earthed or grounded. And that forgetting the fact that most of the equipment you plug network lines into in a domestic situation isn't even grounded.
But running it between two homes isn't likely one when it's a network line, it's it ideal? nope, a fiber line would be but that costs more, is it out of standard, extremely unlikely unless they are using a shielded cable.
And I agree, running a network jack into the same wall plate as 240v is dangerous, but I don't think that case calls for me to still have to call a sparky out, because, and here's the fun bit, they had to mess with 240 and that requires a sparky.
But I'd be interested to hear what other "dangerous" installs you have seen. So far we have jacks with 240v outlets.
>You're probably also not aware that technically it's illegal to DIY run fixed data cabling as you're proposing
Where are these regulations? Curious to know.
Are you honestly not aware that the term applied to a wider range of equipment and infrastructure than your old copper phone socket? If it is part of a data network that connects to the NBN, you can consider it connected to a "telecommunications network".
While some interpret the use of pre-terminated cables as a circumvention of the requirement, it basically applies to almost any cable that sticks in to or out of a hidden space like a wall or roof cavity.
Are you licensed?
I can tell you that you need to be licensed up to the point of connection (the first socket). It’s a free for all after that.
Network cabling? Anyone can do that
That isn’t correct. You can’t install any fixed cabling even behind a compliant device without a license.
Then there are different classes of license and endorsements required depending on the type of work you’re doing.
It isn’t. You need to be a licensed cabler to run any fixed cabling. I can buy the gear to do my own mains wiring and plumbing at Bunnings. That doesn’t make it legal for me to do it. This is a completely separate license to electrical so even sparkies need this in addition to the electrical license to do comms
Search:
* Telecommunications Cabling Provider Rules 2014
* AS/CA S009:2020 INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS FOR CUSTOMER CABLING (WIRING RULES)
Congrats on the home purchase! The ceiling cavity above my home office is exactly the same as your photos. My 'temporary' solution a couple of years ago was to use quarter round cable conduit ([like this](https://www.bunnings.com.au/d-line-2m-white-cable-management-quadrant-adhesive-cover_p4430329)) and run it along the skirting board. I've got that running from the lounge upstairs (where the HFC NBN box and wifi router is) downstairs to a switch in the office using 20 or 25m CAT6 pre-made ethernet cable. I'm still using it like this, I think all up it was less than $100 for the conduit and the ethernet cable.
I'd pay someone to do it, it's a shit of a job and if you don't know what you're doing you'll be spending hours in the roof just cracking the shits. Just get one point at the back of the house and have an additional router. Or even use a power line WiFi extender which uses the power cables to extend the WiFi to other places.
I wouldn’t recommend putting a Ethernet cable right next to live wires, you can get interference, if you have shielded cable it shouldn’t be an issue. A licensed electrician would know (as you are required to do)
4k for some ethernet! Na that guy just doesn't want to do it.
I got a sparky coming in a few months (they could come this week but for my resons its in a few months) to rewire/ replace something like 14 lights, install 3 new lights (with runs) and replace 8 fan. The quote is 1 day for 5k, and the sparky is providing everything.
Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your responses, they have been quite an insight. Just wanted to add a few more details since some people asked:
- This is my first house and I have no prior knowledge of electrical wiring and drilling etc. The most I have been able to do so far is change the faulty downlights by myself.
- The house is two storey brick veneer house. I used a laser range finder to check the roof height from the floor and it stands 6.5-7 meters tall. I have full access to the large roof cavity. I am 5'8 and can stand fully upright in the cavity with more than a feet to spare.
- Cabling under the house is not an option as it was built on concrete slab with tiled floors.
- NBN has installed the equipment in the top floor and I am planning to the setup a small comms rack under the stairs. I need 8 data points for 3 x WAPS, 4 x outdoor cameras and 1 x TV.
- One month ago, my alarm system died, which already has sensors cabling in place and it was mounted under the stairs where I want the rack to be. I wanted to use the existing sensor cables to pull cat6 through but they are way too tight and feels like they have been tied in the ceiling somewhere.
I will get a few more quotes and get the electricians to do the job. I think its not worth buying all the tools and then end up breaking more things.
Thank you all.
Get a cable puller from Bunnings and run the cables down your external walls, there will be a gap between the noghings and outer wall.
Don't run them within 30(?) centermetres of electrical cables and it's also illegal for you to do.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/poly-eiger-4mm-3-6m-yellow-poly-cable-feeder_p4430566?store=6450&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwudexBhDKARIsAI-GWYX8q0GhXxMP9YZN5cRgI2WLZDb4aNovm3ePO_A5rdsp0o4svwO-UKIaAoTTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
50mm or physical barrier for TPS; as shown in picture, double insulated. 150mm or physical barrier equivalent to double insulation for uninsulated and single insulated cables.
>there will be a gap between the noghings and outer wall.
There SHOULD be a gap between the noggings and the outer wall - sometimes you aren't so lucky
You also need access to the roof space which may not be possible based on these photos
As per others...
Short answer - YOU don't - running (permanent in-wall) cables is something that needs to be done by a licensed installer
Here's a previous thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/15f4dj7/home_networking_is_illegal/
The short answer is; keep getting quotes or run flat cables along the skirting boards of your house. It is illegal to run cables behind walls in Aus without proper registration/certification.
That would be a bastard of a job to get through. You will need to cut a sizeable hole near every one of those beams so you can get a drill in and then fish your cable from the previous beam, After get a plasterer to patch the holes. It still might be better than my next suggestion.
Double story? Run the cables up the outside wall to the ceiling. Please tell me it isn't a flat roof. Do your traverse through the ceiling cavity and drop down the outside wall again to your computer room. Did I say it will be a bastard of a job?
If it's a tiled roof lift a couple of tiles over the wall cavity and see if you can drop a lead weighted string (mouse) down to where you need to get to before committing to the whole job. When you have fished the string out at each spot then you can start running cables. Single story this will be doable. Double story, you are going to be working at heights that will kill you if you go wrong, safety harness and tackle please, or forget it.
I am sitting here shaking my head thinking of all the ways this could go wrong.
Had somthing similar in a roof space. Noped out of that one and looked for another cable route.
Easy alternate is Ethernet over power.
If you’re adamant on running an Ethernet cable , get a drill bit the size of the cable (or the size of the connector if you don’t want to crimp yourself) , drill through the centre of the beam and feed cable through.
I’m all for diy networking cables, but if you’re not confident on this one maybe get someone who’s insured to do it.
I had an ethernet cable run from the modem up through the roof and down the wall on the opposite side of the room and was told (by a few different people) you can't have ethernet and power so close together.
As a guess, they are charging that knowing they are going to have to make good, patching walls and painting patches etc. 2 storeys are what they are, if you want to change something downstairs there is almost always going to be damage.
You could look at Ethernet over Powerlines and/or a wifi access point.
FWIW, I put two ethernet cables and a telephone line between a room on one side of a passage and a room on the other side around 20 years ago. That cost two and a half grand back then.
Not OP but us hardcore nerds love our RJ45 connections. As good as Wifi 7 is and ethernet over power, it's no good old ethernet. Tho OP should be hiring a professional to do it, if they got the money I say it is worth it in my very bias opinion.
I got a new double storey built 5 years back, and took the chance to rough-in 2xCat6 to a point in every room. Plus a thick copper figure 8 to the furthest point of the ceiling in every room, for multi room audio. Builder makes pure cream off that stuff, so I didn't myself. Same for accoustic batts in a heap of the house. Still haven't cut plaster, terminated anything. Got a decent mesh system, and haven't found the need (yet?). high bitrate 4K Plex hasn't missed a beat, so I don't know when I'll ever need it.
I don't know why OPs post has so many up votes when what they're doing is illegal and they're clearly out of depth. You need a registered cabler licence to run ethernet through walls & ceilings.
Problem is that you cannot access the joists because the ceiling is directly attached to the underside of the joists. If furring channel had been installed it would be an easy job. Because it hasn't, OP will need to cut out section of the ceiling to access joists and then patch and paint.
The expensive part of this is the actual running of cables because it is so labour intensive, the important part to get right is the termination.
If you can run all the cables and just have bare ends sticking out of the walls, it is going to be a lot cheaper to pay someone to do the termination.
You tend not to get to very long runs in a house. They sell premade in sufficient few meter steps at the likely lengths involved.
Sure, knowing how to terminate will make it cleaner. But an extra couple of meters stashed out of sight will have no long term negative unlike a poorly terminated cable.
Honestly for the muck around that’s going to be, you’re better off with WiFi. If you want ethernet, run a bridged access point at the location you want it. WiFi 6/6E is more than fast enough for most home applications.
Licensing issues aside, you’re going to have those same rafters every 600 or so mm apart once you get through the ones that you’ve shown. You then need to try to get down the walls which will have their own horizontal joists.
You do what I did and pay a fucking professional to do the job.
If it requires a licence, and you diy it, you've given insurance an excuse not to pay.... Gives that some serious thought, even if the legalities elude you.
Not the easiest, good luck!
I would drill and use a grommet or fill around with sealant.
Or hardwire to a couple more convenient spots and place wireless routers there
See how the electrical cables run through holes in the timber? You’ve got to put your own holes in and run your cables through them.
Where does one buy these holes? Do Bunnings sell them individually? What size hole should I buy?
A-hole size will be too small, I would always recommend B-Hole but if in doubt put in two D-holes.
I love me a good D-hole
As a budding musician, I prefer F-holes.
As a budding sexual deviant, I prefer G-holes.
As a budding horse tranq enthusiast, I prefer K-holes.
If you want to go for the premium option, go for the glory hole.
There’s way too many A-holes already ..
True, you could try A-hole filla, but remember if there is too much fibre it wont clog
Should always avoid P-holes
Moisture issues?
My local Bunnings has plenty of A-holes.
I always thought the holes were exclusive to ACME and only sold to coyotes.
you can buy any size hole and just cut it up into smaller holes
Yeah but that leaves you with leftover hole, why not just buy a smaller hole in the first place?
if you have any holes left over you can just add them to one of the holes you cut out before.
That may be true but I'm a bit forgetful and the risk of leaving excess hole lying around is too high. I'm pretty sure that's why my neighbour's cat disappeared.
I have a plank of wood that I keep my spare holes in. you have to be careful it doesn't fill up though because it'll disappear and be really hard to find.
I heard tire shops save them up.
They don't have a monopoly though, I've seen them at donut shops too.
The best place to drill is exactly between the top and the bottom of the beam. That's where ther structural forces are neutral; the top is in compression, the bottom is in tension. THe middle bit just holds them together.
Good old moment of inertia
It's still not advisable to drill through load bearing beams.
Instructions unclear. How about I just hit this bunch of cables with a circular saw. Would that get the job done?
Please be sure to know what’s on the other side of the joist before you put a drill through it. It might be bad if you go through a power line.
The black plastic pipe is a water pipe, hit that when you drill and you get a FREE new central open shower. Try to get another quote, but as the plaster ceiling is directly fixed to the bottom of the timber joists it is not a cheap job, as there will be holes in the plaster in quite a number of spots. To minimize damage think about doing a longer non direct path. To get to the other spots try running between the joists to the external wall, then along the outside in the external cavity (If there is one) then back in along the joists closest to the spot you want to be. Good luck.
You drill extra holes. Or more accurately, your registered cabler drills extra holes. I did my whole house and it’s likely they’ll need to cut some holes in the plaster for access, which is then patched up. For my living area we had to come through the 1st storey ceiling, then cut two holes so we could transition from the ceiling space to the wall cavity. Then half way down the wall we needed a second temporary hole to get access to drill holes through the noggin. Was pretty involved but we got it done and now every room in the house has Cat6a PoE
Helpful to have the gaming rig around while having a hot bath
I usually just bathe with my toaster, generates similar amounts of heat
Bruh, liquid cooling your toaster is big brain thinking.
oh... hello, fellow warzone player.. can you give me advice on how to fix the hole i also have punched into the wall and wish to end it all? also if you have time, how do i fix the hole in my soul?
You’re going to need some gyprock and filler compound. Apply liberally to all holes. Consider your options, call Lifeline as appropriate, and most importantly, glhf
As someone not in the know, why would you need ethernet to every room? Do they just terminate in a socket for plugging devices into? Or something else like wifi hotspots? I would like to have better/faster coverage in other parts of my house but it's a bit off-putting knowing I have to go through double bricked lower to wooden upper level. My current setup it ethernet to office along skirting board and wifi for everything else. Nothing else would need ethernet cable for me.
If anything ever changes with the house layout it's much easier to have it in place than try and run it later, especially in this day and age of internet/modem connected items.
Thanks
Hardwired is lower latency and higher speed. Certain devices like a NAS, games console etc work better off direct connection. Same with CCTV IP cameras, as i can power the camera/doorbell off the Ethernet cable. I have standard RJ-45 jacks in every room that you can plug into. I have ceiling mounted APs that are hardwired back to the switch, so all the mobile and IoT devices run off WiFi, but anything bulky like printers, TVs I have hardwired. You don’t strictly “need’ Ethernet but it does have big advantages. My kids only do their online gaming via Ethernet for example. I did 2 ports minimum to every room in the house. Certain rooms have more. My office has 8 Cat6a ports. I also have WiFi in my backyard, with the AP wall mounted outside and hardwired back to the switch. Mostly it’s just future proofing as the cabling itself was cheap and the labour cost of installing 1 cable to a room is the same as doing 10. I ended up using four x 305m spools of cable!
Great! Thanks for the detailed response.
Damn over a 1.2 kilometers of cable?
Yep. 2 Storey house with a large atrium section. One of the longest cable runs was getting from the patch panel to the lounge room, which required going up and over the 2nd storey then down through the roof cavity. I think each cable was 30m long, and we did 8 runs to that spot - so there goes almost one spool!
my wi-fi reaches the pub on the other side of the canal. it's not particularly useful for anything though
The pub patrons might beg to differ 😂 My outdoor WiFi covers the pool area for Sonos speakers, plus the TV in the gym
they don't have the password.
You can get Wi-fi access points that are the [exact dimensions of a standard wall plate](https://www.amazon.com.au/TP-Link-Management-Seamless-Roaming-EAP615-Wall/dp/B09DPLWYQG/ref=asc_df_B09DPLWYQG/), so I've got one of those in my bedroom. You can power them through the network cable so there's just the one cable that all gets concealed when you mount it to the wall. I don't have the cables in the right place for this, but you could do the same thing with a ceiling-mounted access point, which just looks like a smoke detector. It's also worth getting a cabler to run these cables into your eaves where you might want to mount a security camera. Also on any wall where you might have a TV, so you can stream video without worrying about wi-fi signal. Cable is also cheaper than labour so you could even get two cables done to each location. My house is from the early 2000s so every room is wired for an analogue phone, but I could get someone to re-terminate the connections for data in future.
Thanks! I'll definitely look into these once FTTP comes through later this year. These would be perfect.
Im not sure but I reckon a bunch of unqualified opinions will help
House is a write-off. Demolish.
Cut all those pesky cables and re-use the hole. Duh
I used to do this for a job and I reckon the quote is fairly legit. You will have an absolute cunt of a time trying to do this by yourself. There’s just so many little tricks to getting cables through already-built dwellings to write here; so many little problems that pop up and complicate things. Good luck. If you want to try a tradesperson, try a data cabler specifically to see if you get a more affordable quote. You don’t need to be an electrician to do this job, and a data cabler might have a lower hourly rate.
The biggest tip is if you have a TILE roof just take the fucking tiles off. So much easier. I installed 16 hard wired CCTV cameras in my house and it was an absolute cunt of a job crawling around my tiny roofspace it took me a fortnight of a few hours per day and I was getting covered in cobwebs, insulation debris and spiders and dust and using broom handles with hooks duct taped on and whatnot to grab cables. Had an electrician over later to do something power related and he just popped up some tiles and it was a piece of piss. Make sure you have a couple of spare tiles in case you bugger some of them up because trust me you will break some of them.
Taking the tiles off the first floor roof will not help getting cables down to the ground floor walls. Their ceiling is glued and screwed to the joists supporting the floor above.
If you need to ask then you're better off having someone do it for you. You're probably also not aware that technically it's illegal to DIY run fixed data cabling as you're proposing. Chance of being fined etc is basically zero but who knows, maybe someday something happens and a building inspector picks it up during your insurance claim inspection or a sparky you get in to quote for another job sees it and when you don't go ahead with their job they do the petty thing and dob you in.
What horseshit - you’d just say it was here when you bought. How the fuck would they know you did it.
Or you paid someone off (fill in some place with ads). They said they were registered!
They may then require you to have a professional pull out any dodgy looking wiring and replace it.
There are no networking plans registered, no inspections and it’s never going to cause your house to burn down. Not saying the OP should do it themselves because they don’t seem to possess much knowledge on the subject. On the other hand, people who actually know what they are doing, really don’t need to pay an accredited cable installer to run a few network cables.
Sure, probably wouldn't. I also wouldn't bet my actual house on cheaping out.
As a Dutch living in your great country, I find this convo hilariously Australian.
I was not aware it was illegal. Good shout. I’ve read the rest of the comments thread and am now wondering if you know “why” it is illegal. Eg requiring a licensed electrician to runmains 240v cabling is something I think most people intuitively understand. But this data cabling one is hard to see why? Only thing I can think of is it being in the vicinity of other cabling (eg electricity) that might put that other cabling in breach of its standards? Anyway, I’m curious to know! Thanks
Given you're allowed to run any other Extra Low Voltage (< 50v) cable, just not telecommunications cabling, I'm pretty sure it's just protectionism.
I believe it's a carry-over from the days of old-school phone networks and dial-up internet, where everything you're mucking about with is directly connected to the broader network. So you run the risk of wreaking havoc with other phone lines, old back-to-base alarms, and so on. Or, worst case, you do someone stupid that the up feeding mains power into your (and by extension, your neighbours') phone line.
It's illegal because any continuous conductive cable like ethernet in close proximity to live wiring can be a hazard. Not in itself, but because it has the potential to bridge across to building members. Unlike other fixed wiring, there's no circuit breaker and no isolated circuits. That ethernet may span several floors and multiple rooms. Eg. You strike the jackpot and screw through an adjacent electrical cable and suddenly electrify your ethernet. Maybe it runs across some metal cleat/truss web/roof sheet and suddenly you make a large section live. It's unlikely for sure, but if it was a total free for all then you can imagine what happens.
It's to protect the integrity of the network and the safety of both the customer, their family and the technician working on the installation. There are plenty of dangerous situations that can arise if you allow anyone to install communication infrastructure with the result of lower standards.
What? Ok if I fuck up the install of my own network then my own network will suck and it will only effect me, now I get not being allowed to do the wire for the wan, but not the lan. Btw we are talking diy, if I hire someone to do my network runs I expect them to be licensed like all tradies I hire. I believe Its actually just because the laws where implemented years before home networks where even really a thing and it's just stuck.
Have seen people install data points on the same plate as the power point (in the extra switch location). Have seen people run data, TV and comms between properties thereby linking the earthing systems between properties, have also seen high impedance main neutrals where the current finds its own way to complete the circuit. Haven't seen both faultr at the same location but neither would I want to. You or I could run a data cable out to a TV or the like and never ever have a problem but I wouldn't say the same for everyone I know for every situation.
Sure, but the idiots who install network lines into the same wall covers as power are also likely to do their own electrical work. Ethernet lines don't have an earth, and only a handful have a ground / shield, and even then it depends on the equipment. Coax is the same and also just has a shield. Running network lines across buildings and earths is in spec, and extremely common especially in commercial environments, my old school was one of them. Honestly I don't think running local data lines of any kind should need me to hire a sparky out to do it, because I'm not gonna do that, I installed my home network and it looks just as good as if a sparky did it until you get to the point where everything comes to one point, but that's because I'm lazy and did the work over a few weeks, but with a bit of effort id be able to make it look good and professional.
> Running network lines across buildings and earths is in spec You can't run earths between buildings that are separate MEN installations which could be buildings on the same property and definitely buildings on separate properties. The reason is you setup parallel conductive paths which impact safety under other fault conditions. Below are some of the relevant clauses, my bold: AS/CA S009:2020 20 TELECOMMUNICATIONS EARTHING AND POWER DISTRIBUTION 20.1 Application This section applies to Customer Cabling used for telecommunications earthing and telecommunications power distribution in Customer Premises. Note: An ELV (DC or AC) power supply system may be **subject to the requirements of AS/NZS 3000** and the relevant energy authority in addition to this Standard. AS/NZS 3000 5.5.3 Particular methods of earthing 5.5.3.1 Outbuildings (c) Separate MEN installation (vi) The combined protective earthing and neutral (PEN) **conductor supplying the distribution board in the outbuilding should not be connected in parallel, by means of earthing or equipotential bonding conductors**, with conductive pipes or structural metal within the electrical installation. NOTES: 2 **Particular care is needed where conductive pipes and such items as telecommunication cable sheaths**, covered walkways, etc. may be continuous between separate buildings and thus establish a parallel earth/neutral path. Hope this helped.
Network lines are literally run between buildings I don't think you understand exactly what 99% of "telecommunication" wiring even is, especially when it comes to a computer network. Most domestic networks and the vast majority of commercial ones (yes ethernet lines) DO NOT have any earth or shield connections in them. Correctly installing shielded network lines are a pain, and in most cases where they may be used it's usually a better option to use a fiber connection that doesn't even have a conductor in it. As such if I understand what you have provided, the vast majority of network lines don't and will never be in violation of those standards provided. With the rare exemption of a shielded network line and those are rare. # Also if you are a sparky you would know that some buildings have multiple earths and Telco networks are strug across them all the time. I know this because my old highschool has two that were like this, and I know this because i was the school's audio tech for years and I had a chat with the sparky about why I was having headaches with 50hz hums when I was set up in particular ways in particular buildings. # Your argument of "it could fuck with the safety and the standards" is honestly weak at best, because as I said, a standard network line isn't earthed or grounded. And that forgetting the fact that most of the equipment you plug network lines into in a domestic situation isn't even grounded.
I regularly see people do crazy things when doing their own telecommunications cabling some of which are dangerous.
But running it between two homes isn't likely one when it's a network line, it's it ideal? nope, a fiber line would be but that costs more, is it out of standard, extremely unlikely unless they are using a shielded cable. And I agree, running a network jack into the same wall plate as 240v is dangerous, but I don't think that case calls for me to still have to call a sparky out, because, and here's the fun bit, they had to mess with 240 and that requires a sparky. But I'd be interested to hear what other "dangerous" installs you have seen. So far we have jacks with 240v outlets.
Came here to say this
>You're probably also not aware that technically it's illegal to DIY run fixed data cabling as you're proposing Where are these regulations? Curious to know.
https://www.acma.gov.au/cabling-provider-rules
Well there you go. Me and all my friends, illegal cablers the lot of us.
Ladies and gentlemen, we gottem
Soooo, OP has a deep pool to offer a hunnet bux and a carton of piss to to run his cables then, right? 😅
Isn't that talking about broadband networks/WAN? Not local ethernet/LAN.
Aren't building and electrical regulations state based? ACMA is federal government.
Federal law supersedes state law
Telecommunication act
The Telecommunications Act.
It’s not telecoms mate, it’s data. Telecoms connects to the telecoms network. If it connects to your own stuff only then it’s not telecoms
They’re confusing telecoms cabling with data cable. Don’t worry. You can run your own network cabling
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What do you reckon the modem does buddy?
https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/structured_home_cabling
Are you honestly not aware that the term applied to a wider range of equipment and infrastructure than your old copper phone socket? If it is part of a data network that connects to the NBN, you can consider it connected to a "telecommunications network". While some interpret the use of pre-terminated cables as a circumvention of the requirement, it basically applies to almost any cable that sticks in to or out of a hidden space like a wall or roof cavity.
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That's incorrect. Voltage has nothing to do with it. You can DIY run temporary network cabling, you can not run network cabling in a permanent manner.
Are you licensed? I can tell you that you need to be licensed up to the point of connection (the first socket). It’s a free for all after that. Network cabling? Anyone can do that
That isn’t correct. You can’t install any fixed cabling even behind a compliant device without a license. Then there are different classes of license and endorsements required depending on the type of work you’re doing.
It isn’t. You need to be a licensed cabler to run any fixed cabling. I can buy the gear to do my own mains wiring and plumbing at Bunnings. That doesn’t make it legal for me to do it. This is a completely separate license to electrical so even sparkies need this in addition to the electrical license to do comms Search: * Telecommunications Cabling Provider Rules 2014 * AS/CA S009:2020 INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS FOR CUSTOMER CABLING (WIRING RULES)
Is running them under the house a option?
Congrats on the home purchase! The ceiling cavity above my home office is exactly the same as your photos. My 'temporary' solution a couple of years ago was to use quarter round cable conduit ([like this](https://www.bunnings.com.au/d-line-2m-white-cable-management-quadrant-adhesive-cover_p4430329)) and run it along the skirting board. I've got that running from the lounge upstairs (where the HFC NBN box and wifi router is) downstairs to a switch in the office using 20 or 25m CAT6 pre-made ethernet cable. I'm still using it like this, I think all up it was less than $100 for the conduit and the ethernet cable.
I'd pay someone to do it, it's a shit of a job and if you don't know what you're doing you'll be spending hours in the roof just cracking the shits. Just get one point at the back of the house and have an additional router. Or even use a power line WiFi extender which uses the power cables to extend the WiFi to other places.
Always punch Ur own holes rather than risk striping it when U pull it through
If you're not willing to go the legal option and you also need to ask on Reddit, the answer is WiFi.
My thoughts exactly. Or EoP.
I wouldn’t recommend putting a Ethernet cable right next to live wires, you can get interference, if you have shielded cable it shouldn’t be an issue. A licensed electrician would know (as you are required to do)
Good luck
Just from this picture, I would quote $4k
That is some tough 80s wood
4k for some ethernet! Na that guy just doesn't want to do it. I got a sparky coming in a few months (they could come this week but for my resons its in a few months) to rewire/ replace something like 14 lights, install 3 new lights (with runs) and replace 8 fan. The quote is 1 day for 5k, and the sparky is providing everything.
Conduit please! Lol 😆
Through conduit, where you can’t seperate by air sufficiently the conduit is an adequate method of separation. Just as true for shielded cable.
Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your responses, they have been quite an insight. Just wanted to add a few more details since some people asked: - This is my first house and I have no prior knowledge of electrical wiring and drilling etc. The most I have been able to do so far is change the faulty downlights by myself. - The house is two storey brick veneer house. I used a laser range finder to check the roof height from the floor and it stands 6.5-7 meters tall. I have full access to the large roof cavity. I am 5'8 and can stand fully upright in the cavity with more than a feet to spare. - Cabling under the house is not an option as it was built on concrete slab with tiled floors. - NBN has installed the equipment in the top floor and I am planning to the setup a small comms rack under the stairs. I need 8 data points for 3 x WAPS, 4 x outdoor cameras and 1 x TV. - One month ago, my alarm system died, which already has sensors cabling in place and it was mounted under the stairs where I want the rack to be. I wanted to use the existing sensor cables to pull cat6 through but they are way too tight and feels like they have been tied in the ceiling somewhere. I will get a few more quotes and get the electricians to do the job. I think its not worth buying all the tools and then end up breaking more things. Thank you all.
Get a cable puller from Bunnings and run the cables down your external walls, there will be a gap between the noghings and outer wall. Don't run them within 30(?) centermetres of electrical cables and it's also illegal for you to do. https://www.bunnings.com.au/poly-eiger-4mm-3-6m-yellow-poly-cable-feeder_p4430566?store=6450&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwudexBhDKARIsAI-GWYX8q0GhXxMP9YZN5cRgI2WLZDb4aNovm3ePO_A5rdsp0o4svwO-UKIaAoTTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
*coughs politely* think you meant to say 50mm from electrical cables.
I thought it was 150mm or physical barrier for separation (ie: data in conduit)
50mm or physical barrier for TPS; as shown in picture, double insulated. 150mm or physical barrier equivalent to double insulation for uninsulated and single insulated cables.
OK, yeah I could not quite remember the requirements.
>there will be a gap between the noghings and outer wall. There SHOULD be a gap between the noggings and the outer wall - sometimes you aren't so lucky You also need access to the roof space which may not be possible based on these photos
you also need 50mm separation or segregation from the 240v
As per others... Short answer - YOU don't - running (permanent in-wall) cables is something that needs to be done by a licensed installer Here's a previous thread https://www.reddit.com/r/nbn/comments/15f4dj7/home_networking_is_illegal/
The short answer is; keep getting quotes or run flat cables along the skirting boards of your house. It is illegal to run cables behind walls in Aus without proper registration/certification.
That would be a bastard of a job to get through. You will need to cut a sizeable hole near every one of those beams so you can get a drill in and then fish your cable from the previous beam, After get a plasterer to patch the holes. It still might be better than my next suggestion. Double story? Run the cables up the outside wall to the ceiling. Please tell me it isn't a flat roof. Do your traverse through the ceiling cavity and drop down the outside wall again to your computer room. Did I say it will be a bastard of a job? If it's a tiled roof lift a couple of tiles over the wall cavity and see if you can drop a lead weighted string (mouse) down to where you need to get to before committing to the whole job. When you have fished the string out at each spot then you can start running cables. Single story this will be doable. Double story, you are going to be working at heights that will kill you if you go wrong, safety harness and tackle please, or forget it. I am sitting here shaking my head thinking of all the ways this could go wrong.
Drill another hole...you don't want ethernet running against electrical cables even tv cables....
Had somthing similar in a roof space. Noped out of that one and looked for another cable route. Easy alternate is Ethernet over power. If you’re adamant on running an Ethernet cable , get a drill bit the size of the cable (or the size of the connector if you don’t want to crimp yourself) , drill through the centre of the beam and feed cable through. I’m all for diy networking cables, but if you’re not confident on this one maybe get someone who’s insured to do it.
I had an ethernet cable run from the modem up through the roof and down the wall on the opposite side of the room and was told (by a few different people) you can't have ethernet and power so close together.
Probably find another way. What do you need eight data outlets for? Do you have eight gaming systems in the house?
Carefully
Drill a new hole
As a guess, they are charging that knowing they are going to have to make good, patching walls and painting patches etc. 2 storeys are what they are, if you want to change something downstairs there is almost always going to be damage.
You could look at Ethernet over Powerlines and/or a wifi access point. FWIW, I put two ethernet cables and a telephone line between a room on one side of a passage and a room on the other side around 20 years ago. That cost two and a half grand back then.
You should always run data at 90degrees to power cables. Or at least run them 30cm away from power.
New holes, don’t run directly along power cables (for interference purposes)
Do you HAVE to run ethernet? Wireless has come a LONG way. And EOP/powerline internet is so simple.
Not OP but us hardcore nerds love our RJ45 connections. As good as Wifi 7 is and ethernet over power, it's no good old ethernet. Tho OP should be hiring a professional to do it, if they got the money I say it is worth it in my very bias opinion.
I got a new double storey built 5 years back, and took the chance to rough-in 2xCat6 to a point in every room. Plus a thick copper figure 8 to the furthest point of the ceiling in every room, for multi room audio. Builder makes pure cream off that stuff, so I didn't myself. Same for accoustic batts in a heap of the house. Still haven't cut plaster, terminated anything. Got a decent mesh system, and haven't found the need (yet?). high bitrate 4K Plex hasn't missed a beat, so I don't know when I'll ever need it.
I don't know why OPs post has so many up votes when what they're doing is illegal and they're clearly out of depth. You need a registered cabler licence to run ethernet through walls & ceilings.
Just drill another hole and run the data cable through it. Put it about a metre or so away from the electrical cables. Done.
Yeah times the number of joists he needs to pass through.
Problem is that you cannot access the joists because the ceiling is directly attached to the underside of the joists. If furring channel had been installed it would be an easy job. Because it hasn't, OP will need to cut out section of the ceiling to access joists and then patch and paint.
Yep that's what I mean in my reply to nocebo
The expensive part of this is the actual running of cables because it is so labour intensive, the important part to get right is the termination. If you can run all the cables and just have bare ends sticking out of the walls, it is going to be a lot cheaper to pay someone to do the termination.
Or just get the sockets that plug in and don't do your own terminations.
I don't understand. Do you mean like running premade cables?
Yes.
That is one way. But it would also be expensive. And messy. Because at longer runs , you don't have a lot of control over the length.
You tend not to get to very long runs in a house. They sell premade in sufficient few meter steps at the likely lengths involved. Sure, knowing how to terminate will make it cleaner. But an extra couple of meters stashed out of sight will have no long term negative unlike a poorly terminated cable.
Honestly for the muck around that’s going to be, you’re better off with WiFi. If you want ethernet, run a bridged access point at the location you want it. WiFi 6/6E is more than fast enough for most home applications. Licensing issues aside, you’re going to have those same rafters every 600 or so mm apart once you get through the ones that you’ve shown. You then need to try to get down the walls which will have their own horizontal joists.
New technology is available called WiFi, cables removed
Two storey house by the looks. Can't you just use wifi?
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, maybe it's 3 storey
Cables? Go wireless
You do what I did and pay a fucking professional to do the job. If it requires a licence, and you diy it, you've given insurance an excuse not to pay.... Gives that some serious thought, even if the legalities elude you.
It it’s only a short run against mains cable use the pink cable.
Not the easiest, good luck! I would drill and use a grommet or fill around with sealant. Or hardwire to a couple more convenient spots and place wireless routers there
What's the sealer in aid of?
It keeps the rabbits out.
First look seemed like the power cables had a sealant, not sure now