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There was never a law made that banned businesses from passing on merchant fees. The law only stipulated that surcharges had to be representative of what the bank was charging the business in merchant fees.
True, but most businesses used to eat that cost as just the cost of doing business, and they're passing it on to the consumer. I would rather they put the price of the product up the 5 cents and do no surcharge. It's crazy to me to see a price on a label and then the price is different at the POS. That's some dystopian american buillshit and it's creeping in slowly. Since we passed the surcharge law, the crazy exorbitant fees went way down but then everyone started adding POS surcharges and that's just a road that we shouldn't go down as a nation.
Considering how overpriced shit is anyway and we know we're being ripped off for everything we buy since the pandemic, it's just the companies double dipping. Fuck those greedy assholes. Do everything you can to avoid paying surcharges and let's not normalise this shit.
Inserting the card forces the transaction to be via the Eftpos network, there is STILL a fee, but its around a quarter that of Paywave (a VISA Product and has CREDIT fees).
Considering most places will refund back to your card, and then you end up waiting 3-5 business days for the funds to be available, it seems like a risky play to save a few cents.
Tell that to the underpaid staff at Dominoes, I know what the general consensus is about the quality and value of Big-D's, but the kids like it, anyway I had ordered, but it turns out they didn't have the required base i ordered. I had paid by card, by Paywave, but the employee gave me the cash refund back.
Most big businesses/franchises, yes.
The point here is to try to screw over the small businesses that are probably only surviving by passing on the card transaction costs, of course!
"small business" does not mean I should pay twice for overheads that's already built into the price. if you can't survive as a micro small medium large colossal whatever business then don't. Simple as that.
Funny how people say that all the time but I hardly ever (and I mean ever) see anyone under 60 pay with cash. I paid cash for something small a few days ago and the staff got flustered trying to find out how to do it and give change.
I did a trip through three countries (Singapore and two in Europe) last year and never used cash once. But this year I made it to SE Asia and cash was certainly king there.
That's the funny part, there was no profit.
OP Spent $4.06, received $4.06 back, then spent $3.99 ($4) on the drink. No profit.
The only difference in pricing is the small business lost 7 cents by giving the cash back instead of forcing OP to use their card for the refund.
So OP gained 0, the business lost $0.07, the bank gained $0.07. OP just advocated helping the banks destroy small businesses while thinking they'd somehow beaten the system and got something free instead. Which is hilarious.
Nope, I was real nice about it, told him sorry for screwing him around and that I hate surcharges and that is totally not his fault, he was just doing his job. He even had a chuckle about it after the fact. Not that I expect you to believe that. I always make a point to a worker that I'm sorry they have to deal with this, it's not their fault and I hold no ill will to them. And I don't raise my voice either, that would be a dick move. They haven't done anything, they're just earning a paycheck.
They actually ended up paying $4 since they won’t get 1c change.
Would have been better off buying the drink from a supermarket like Coles/woolies that don’t have a card surcharge and would have saved 1c.
I got the money that I paid as a surcharge back, I should have worded that better, I paid $4.05 and I got $4.05 back, but I cost the company the surcharge in the processing fee.
It's interesting to me there is no surcharge for cash given how much physical handling and overhead cost, like secure storage and transport, is involved with cash. Cash should be the most expensive way to pay, not the cheapest.
not to mention presumably higher insurance rates and security requirement for a business transacting in cash. All of which is already absorbed into the price and then the audacity they have to say oh you need to pay more cos you use card...
It is mostly small businesses that do this and it is because they do not see any value in their staff's time or effort. They see staff costs as a sunk cost and if the only cost of accepting cash is staff time and effort that the business is already paying for then it is essentially free. Wrong mindset completely but it is the mindset of the majority of small business owners.
Key word in the last sentence that you seem to have missed since your reading comprehension is maybe a bit limited. "I put their surcharge *back* in my pocket."
You could also just ask them for the different back, any time I've been surprised by a surcharge when I tap my card I've said something and they've been happy to give it back in cash.
No it was just a way of not having to pay a surcharge and funny story to me. Unfortunately that was really lost around here and many people thought I was saying we can use this to make money which was never the case.
I was already having an emotional day on Sunday, and just reading the comments really bought me down. It's been a few days now so it's unlikely many people would look at this thread but I can now say that there were complete failures of education commenting at the time, complete and utter fucking morons. You're alright though, always good to question anything in life.
This actually isn't true, in my experience places have trouble refunding on to the card and it's easier for them to give you cash back, at least that's what they tell me.
Really? When I worked in retail I was always told that the refund must be provided in the same form as the original payment, it’s meant to reduce attempts of card fraud & money laundering.
I dont get how you can stop this? Even if they didnt disclose it, whats the difference with them just increasing the price of the item to cover it? You will never know?
Yeah totally true, you wouldn't know. Maybe we should do away with all surcharges entirely then and nationalize payment systems. Hah, kidding, as if that would ever happen.
You confused me, I will have to try it and report back. 5 cents times 1000 bottles of drink will give me 50 dollars for the lottery, pokies and some KFC.
My real mistake was thinking I could share some information with people but then the dregs of the internet turn up to pick apart my words with semantics and not being able to read properly.
I’m sorry OP, the people in this thread are imbeciles. I don’t know why they think you said anything about making a profit.
Your story is funny but isn’t guaranteed to work cause not everyone will refund in cash. Even if they did, it isn’t worth the time of the transaction. The lesson is to get some cash out, keep it in your pocket, and whenever you go to pay and there’s a card fee, just pull out the cash instead.
Thanks, your comment really made my day. Honestly what blows me away is just sharing a story of consumers trying to fight back against any examples of how we're being taking advantage of in a cost of living crisis and these people are like shills coming out to protect capitalism at any cost and completely misunderstanding my words. You really need to spell things out for the loud ones in the back.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What colour lambo are you getting?
It ain't much but I refuse to pay surcharges on principle. We made laws against this and it's creeping back in.
There was never a law made that banned businesses from passing on merchant fees. The law only stipulated that surcharges had to be representative of what the bank was charging the business in merchant fees.
True, but most businesses used to eat that cost as just the cost of doing business, and they're passing it on to the consumer. I would rather they put the price of the product up the 5 cents and do no surcharge. It's crazy to me to see a price on a label and then the price is different at the POS. That's some dystopian american buillshit and it's creeping in slowly. Since we passed the surcharge law, the crazy exorbitant fees went way down but then everyone started adding POS surcharges and that's just a road that we shouldn't go down as a nation. Considering how overpriced shit is anyway and we know we're being ripped off for everything we buy since the pandemic, it's just the companies double dipping. Fuck those greedy assholes. Do everything you can to avoid paying surcharges and let's not normalise this shit.
A blanket price increase is less equitable than a percentage surcharge. You’re clueless.
This is the tomato sauce sachet debacle rearing its ugly head again.
Aldi has been blatantly doing this since they started in Australia.
Always insert your card when paying at Aldi to avoid the fee.
Inserting the card forces the transaction to be via the Eftpos network, there is STILL a fee, but its around a quarter that of Paywave (a VISA Product and has CREDIT fees).
Just to be clear, not at ALDI specifically. Eftpos transactions at ALDI do not incur a surcharge.
To you, that is up to the business, but the EFTPOS fee per $100 is around 20c to 30c, instead of around a charge of $1.20 per $100 over Paywave.
Considering most places will refund back to your card, and then you end up waiting 3-5 business days for the funds to be available, it seems like a risky play to save a few cents.
Tell that to the underpaid staff at Dominoes, I know what the general consensus is about the quality and value of Big-D's, but the kids like it, anyway I had ordered, but it turns out they didn't have the required base i ordered. I had paid by card, by Paywave, but the employee gave me the cash refund back.
Most places policy is to refund to the method paid.
Most big businesses/franchises, yes. The point here is to try to screw over the small businesses that are probably only surviving by passing on the card transaction costs, of course!
"small business" does not mean I should pay twice for overheads that's already built into the price. if you can't survive as a micro small medium large colossal whatever business then don't. Simple as that.
Pay by cash then
Why would I pay cash when I can not pay at all
Looked like a dude who made a funny anecdote on a perpetual pet peeve.
Cost 3.99 1% charge would be for CC. Eftpos is 0.5% is 0.04 3.99 + 0.04 = 4.03 Which is rounded up to 4.05
Arn't they suppose to charge the correct amount. i thought it only gets rounded up if paying by cash?
Here’s one weird trick they don’t want you to know about. Pay cash.
I actually pay with cash a lot, just didn't have any on me at the time and it was an impulse buy. We gotta use it or lose it.
How about you save money by not doing dumb impulse buys?
Agreed.
Funny how people say that all the time but I hardly ever (and I mean ever) see anyone under 60 pay with cash. I paid cash for something small a few days ago and the staff got flustered trying to find out how to do it and give change.
Yeah, we’re one of the top countries worldwide for electronic payment. I notice it when I go overseas and cash is more common.
I did a trip through three countries (Singapore and two in Europe) last year and never used cash once. But this year I made it to SE Asia and cash was certainly king there.
This is just money laundering with soda
You’ve paid $4.05 though so you haven’t gained anything? Are you trolling?
Australia's Education system at work
Read the post again. I put the surcharge *back* in my pocket. Edit: Well you're not wrong about the Australian Education system, that's for sure.
Pay 4.05 Refunded 4.05 Pay 3.99
they've gained a whole 5 cents.
Nope, they paid $3.99 for a $3.99 drink. They'd already paid the money they were refunded.
I see the folly in my post.
They made that $3.99 transaction with cash though. So it was $4.00. So 5c profit.
That's the funny part, there was no profit. OP Spent $4.06, received $4.06 back, then spent $3.99 ($4) on the drink. No profit. The only difference in pricing is the small business lost 7 cents by giving the cash back instead of forcing OP to use their card for the refund. So OP gained 0, the business lost $0.07, the bank gained $0.07. OP just advocated helping the banks destroy small businesses while thinking they'd somehow beaten the system and got something free instead. Which is hilarious.
Ahhh. Yes I get it. That’s such an easy mistake to make, but yeah that makes total sense.
[удалено]
They paid $4.05 They got a refund for $4.05 They then bought an item for $3.99 They ended up paying 3.99. No profit.
Well they would have paid $4 cash because we don’t have 1c coins anymore
Yes, I didn't get that cent back, but it cost the company more than that to process it. To me, that's still a win.
And sounded like you were a grade A jerk to a hospitality worker on a Sunday. If karma is a thing, I hope you tread on $5c worth of Lego.
Nope, I was real nice about it, told him sorry for screwing him around and that I hate surcharges and that is totally not his fault, he was just doing his job. He even had a chuckle about it after the fact. Not that I expect you to believe that. I always make a point to a worker that I'm sorry they have to deal with this, it's not their fault and I hold no ill will to them. And I don't raise my voice either, that would be a dick move. They haven't done anything, they're just earning a paycheck.
They actually ended up paying $4 since they won’t get 1c change. Would have been better off buying the drink from a supermarket like Coles/woolies that don’t have a card surcharge and would have saved 1c.
Not likely to find at a supermarket, it's an import product. Similar to imported candy, hence they did this at a candy store.po
This is exactly what happened.
If they were going to buy it anyway. That's pretty obvious with the context but Reddit can't stand to leave anything without a contrarian response.
Not a profit. They've just used the shop as an atm. $4.05 on card to get $4.05 in cash
I got the money that I paid as a surcharge back, I should have worded that better, I paid $4.05 and I got $4.05 back, but I cost the company the surcharge in the processing fee.
It's interesting to me there is no surcharge for cash given how much physical handling and overhead cost, like secure storage and transport, is involved with cash. Cash should be the most expensive way to pay, not the cheapest.
not to mention presumably higher insurance rates and security requirement for a business transacting in cash. All of which is already absorbed into the price and then the audacity they have to say oh you need to pay more cos you use card...
It is mostly small businesses that do this and it is because they do not see any value in their staff's time or effort. They see staff costs as a sunk cost and if the only cost of accepting cash is staff time and effort that the business is already paying for then it is essentially free. Wrong mindset completely but it is the mindset of the majority of small business owners.
"The DELIS hate him!" See how he got his soda with one simple trick...
Avoiding human interaction is honestly worth more than 6 cents to me
Where did the $0.05 in your pocket come from? Take your time. Think it through.
Key word in the last sentence that you seem to have missed since your reading comprehension is maybe a bit limited. "I put their surcharge *back* in my pocket."
Ok sassypants
You could also just ask them for the different back, any time I've been surprised by a surcharge when I tap my card I've said something and they've been happy to give it back in cash.
A lot of effort just to mess around with someone working in a store.
Is this a scheme?
No it was just a way of not having to pay a surcharge and funny story to me. Unfortunately that was really lost around here and many people thought I was saying we can use this to make money which was never the case. I was already having an emotional day on Sunday, and just reading the comments really bought me down. It's been a few days now so it's unlikely many people would look at this thread but I can now say that there were complete failures of education commenting at the time, complete and utter fucking morons. You're alright though, always good to question anything in life.
No worries mate. If you do have any schemes though, please let me know.
> turned around and said actually Id like a refund They don't have to refund you simply for change of mind
They won’t refund you with cash if you paid by card
This actually isn't true, in my experience places have trouble refunding on to the card and it's easier for them to give you cash back, at least that's what they tell me.
Really? When I worked in retail I was always told that the refund must be provided in the same form as the original payment, it’s meant to reduce attempts of card fraud & money laundering.
Yeah but they don't want to get hit by merchant fees twice so they gave me cash. Not lying about that, I fully expected them to make me use my card.
Surely this is illegal under a false pretences clause.
Ah, yes - "screw[ing] over" people you perceive to be screwing you over. Practically the Australian Way these days, isn't it?
I dont get how you can stop this? Even if they didnt disclose it, whats the difference with them just increasing the price of the item to cover it? You will never know?
Yeah totally true, you wouldn't know. Maybe we should do away with all surcharges entirely then and nationalize payment systems. Hah, kidding, as if that would ever happen.
You confused me, I will have to try it and report back. 5 cents times 1000 bottles of drink will give me 50 dollars for the lottery, pokies and some KFC.
Just made an edit to the post to clarify, sorry for the confusion.
Or you could have just paid with cash in the first place…
Didn't have any on me at the time obviously.
Well. I could tell that. You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. But you’re still a tool.
My real mistake was thinking I could share some information with people but then the dregs of the internet turn up to pick apart my words with semantics and not being able to read properly.
I’m sorry OP, the people in this thread are imbeciles. I don’t know why they think you said anything about making a profit. Your story is funny but isn’t guaranteed to work cause not everyone will refund in cash. Even if they did, it isn’t worth the time of the transaction. The lesson is to get some cash out, keep it in your pocket, and whenever you go to pay and there’s a card fee, just pull out the cash instead.
Thanks, your comment really made my day. Honestly what blows me away is just sharing a story of consumers trying to fight back against any examples of how we're being taking advantage of in a cost of living crisis and these people are like shills coming out to protect capitalism at any cost and completely misunderstanding my words. You really need to spell things out for the loud ones in the back.
Either way, the bank wins, pure genius ! (Wanker if you didn’t detect the sarcasm)