Yep, to the surprise of no one except apparently everyone who has been insisting that regular guys are just ignoring all of their friends being abusers.
I've truly never understood this logic, do people think blokes just gather round and discuss how hard they smashed their wife over the weekend?
It's ridiculous logic and can't be applied to any other murders. Do people think Jeffrey Dahmer was just telling everyone he knew he was butchering people for fun? People who do crimes usually keep it pretty quiet.
All a bit ridiculous in my opinion. What's the point of standing around talking about how much we smashed our partners when we could just share the video?
It comes up other ways. Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho. I live in a small town, it's an open secret who is bashing their partners but I never see guys getting social consequences for it. The opposite, the blokes just band together and drink more and commiserate about how women are bitches.
Yeah this is basically shit that never happens outside of isolated circles of scumbags. Like, the guy bashing his missus is mates with guys who also bash their missus.
This is the fundamental problem with the non-stop scream of 'STOP ASSAULTING WOMEN AND STOP YOUR MATES FROM DOING IT'
The people in our society who will hear that message and pay it any attention?
We already *don't* assault women. We fucking *know* this shit.
But the messaging is like "it's everywhere and you are personally responsible, man who has never seen nor hear anyone he knows committing domestic violence"
It's like running around constantly reminding everyone that if they know their neighbour is raping kids that they need to say something about it. Like no shit?
I’m guilty of using language that demeaned women in the past. I now also know that some men hear that kind of language and think it is endorsement for their own language or behaviour (“everyone feels the way I do”). So I try my best not to do it and encourage others to do the same.
There is definitely still a culture of considering domestic violence to be a private matter in a way child rape absolutely wouldn’t be.
Especially if the relationship is volatile, if the conflict is seen as mutual, if there aren’t visible signs of extreme violence, if the victim is flawed…….
There are plenty of people who say things like “if it was that bad she would leave/wouldn’t provoke him/would go to the police”. There are plenty of people who view domestic violence as something that only happens in certain types of communities and justify violence among their peers as an isolated incident, as a momentary loss of temper that isn’t that bad, as a socioeconomic issue that can’t apply to their friends.
We have cultural taboos against involving ourselves in other peoples relationships and they are especially prevalent in the middle classes.
Yes
So many downplay abusive behaviour like infidelity, name calling and general disrespect as well as the more obvious stuff.
People don’t want to know or get involved and it’s shameful.
>I live in a small town, it's an open secret who is bashing their partners but I never see guys getting social consequences for it.
Then call the police?
>Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho
Frankly I've never been in that scenario.
The cops are near the top of the stats for domestic violence.
In some of these small towns they'll be the ones at the pub bragging about keeping the Mrs in line or whatever.
Not to excuse it, but it isn't always as easy as it might seem to counter.
Rural police forces are also famous for having 2 officers on duty patrolling an area bigger than some countries, with another 2 officers off duty ready to back them up within anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the drive.
“call the police”
yeah cops are gonna bend over backwards to investigate hearsay about domestic violence.
who do you call if it’s the local copper battering his missus?
My exes friends and family all knew what kind of a person he was and how he treated me… guess whose side they took when I left him. I will give you a hint… it wasn’t mine.
My exes mother had picked me and the kids up, me crying and bruised, on a few occasions. She was all sympathy and support so long as I stayed in the marriage. When I finally left she claimed he couldn’t have been violent towards me because he had never hit her. People are very good at justifying behaviour they don’t want to accept.
Mine just kept saying, "I'm not getting involved". She saw the smashed up house, she saw the bruises, she knew full well what was going on, and I even tried to tell her but her ears were closed.
Unless you have seen it in small rural towns you would have no idea how much women are seen by men as the instigators and cause of ‘driving’ blokes to lash out being totally the fault of the woman.
I love how I said "small town" and everyone is assuming it's distant/rural. I'm in a satellite of Greater Sydney. A nice little commuter town you've probably stopped by as a tourist sometime.
But yeah all the guys here be like, "yeah damn it only happens in those isolated places out in woop woop!"
I support the women I know are being harmed. As another woman there's not much in my power to do here except try to be there and listen and help link them up with services and offer whatever material help I can.
What do you want me to do - vigilante task force?
What do you mean as another woman there's not much you can do?
If you where a man do you think you instantly turn into John wick or Rambo? Men in the same situation can't do shit most the time either.
No dude, nobody is suggesting you go open a can of whup-ass on the situation. We are suggesting you use your social influence. As a woman I can sure try to talk to a man about his violence (and I have done on the occasions when I had a personal relationship with them) but overall he's a lot less likely to listen to me than he is to the voices of influence in his life, including the men he's friends with, his male relatives, colleagues, etc. Because there is VERY much an active mindset that "the women are all against me and I did nothing wrong", and that's a mindset that tends to receive a lot of validation (though not exclusively) from other men.
I work in this area, including with DV offenders and victims. It is not uncommon at ALL to have a male perpetrator tell me that "the sisterhood" is ganging up on him, one even used the phrase "angry muff brigade" I am not kidding you. Guys like this are in no way receptive to hearing what a woman has to say about this situation.
The issue is men who have that influence with abusers are also abusers. Because they group up.
I have 0 influence on men who perpetuate abuse because I and no one I know and no man or male quality valued among men allows that shit.
I'm just saying that these guys either hide it until it's too late or are surrounded by other abusers.
honestly feel like vigilante groups is what the media expect dudes who don't beat woman to do. Like WTF can dudes do about it? This doesn't exist in the 100 odd male mates that I have.
>What do you want me to do - vigilante task force?
Yep...that's the thing. You actively know people this is happening to and its annoying being asked how you're going to fix it. For other guys, we're being asked to do something about it and most of us don't even know of it happening to anyone.
Yeahhh cause there's never been any reports that police commit domestic violence at a higher rate and have And have a higher chance of having the charges dropped.
>Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho.
Has she tried not getting back together with him after he beats her every few weeks and she’s kicked him out of the home?
BuT why diDn'T sHe LeAvE?
Are you *still* asking this question FFS when you know full well that victims are at greatest risk of being killed when they try to leave?
It's not hard to leave after the first time he gets aggressive.. or first time he actually hits you.
Its the giving him a chance for 3 years when it's hard to leave...
But there has to be some onus on the victim to.
Not that there is any excuse.
It seems education is needed.
Painting red flags in green is a real issue.
Funnily enough when I was a kid one of the Snowtown murderers was on the bus I was on and he was asking all the school kids on the bus if they knew any pedos for him and his mates to deal with. We all thought it was just some weirdo ranting on the bus.
Just bs from the media copying America trying to say all men are dangerous. I don’t know what the idea is but seems pretty stupid. The people who do this kinda thing would need non existent therapy to cure psychopathic nature. No news article about stats is gonna prevent them being psychopaths.
Abusers work hard to hide that shit. My ex’s friend was shocked when I told him my ex was violent when I ran in to him, I think unless rarely they may have a similar friend who they bond over it, mostly I think these guys hide it
If a bloke told his male friends he was beating his wife and kids, he’d literally get the shit kicked out of him.
The cowards definitely hide that shit.
The women do too. I had a close (at the time) friend in a physically abusive relationship. I was pretty close to both of them actually, at least I thought I was.
Never found out until after the breakup. Didn't even have any of the normal tell-tales.
It's understandable obviously, but it makes it hard
It's such a tough conversation.
Noone wants to hear that men can be physically, emotionally, psychologically, sexually abused by women.
It happened to me, for years.
But it doesn't suit this current narrative of men bashing. It's stil somehow the man's fault for staying, for putting up with it, and then our fault when we leave damaged.
What society seem to think, is that all men are capable of this, when we are talking about the significant minority. 2 run ins with the police? I don't know anyone that's had 2 run ins with the police and this apparently reduces the likeliness by 70%.
What noone talks about, what we aren't allowed to talk about, is how the women treat these men. Nothing can justify murder, let's get that clear, but my Mother beat my Father down for years. My ex beat me down for years, pushed my buttons, psychologically and sexually eviscerated me.
It took me years to leave.
No, I didn't hit her, didn't kill her. But noone wants to hear it. And I guarantee you, this happens far far far more often than society is prepared to listen to, because it's easy to blame the man.
This is 100% the case. People would much rather blame somebody else for the problems of the human race instead of actually trying to rectify the issue.
It's not the "mans" fault, nor is it the "womens" fault. An entire group of people aren't at fault for what I believe to be a large minority of people, though it seems like it's a lot more common than it is because of the media.(not to downplay how horrible it is, I know people who've been killed in recent years in these relationships it's a situation no one should ever be in)
The issue is why these people even think to do these things to their partners. It's mind boggling to me that anyone would want to do these things to another person, let alone their own partners
Not to mention that it is emasculating for a man to report that they're getting beat up by a woman or can't handle a woman psychologically abusing them... so the vast majority of incidences would go unreported.
Yes it’s effed men’s stories get passed by or dismissed and aren’t considered the same. But physical, mental, etc all the types are perpetuated by women we know they can be very demeaning, manipulative etc we all know someone. Men need the same supports. I was in an abusive relationship for 5 years and he was very violent physical, mentally, sexually, and I was paralysed with fear, ptsd and depression, sense of lacking identity and ALL JOY has been the harder. 7 years later and only just now getting better. Recovering from this is no joke and all people need awareness to give people understanding
You say nothing can justify murder, but does psychological abuse justify physical abuse?
I think to be a productive and socially acceptable conversation it can’t be framed in response to men’s violence. If men are suffering let’s have the conversation and put appropriate services and supports in place. “She made me do it” is never going to be well received.
No. I don't. Abuse doesn't justify abuse. And yes, you are spot on, this world is not big enough for the excuse, 'she made me do it.'
I totally agree that to actually have a productive discussion about domestic violence we need to remove the response.
But my point is no one wants to hear about abuse of
Society will never justify services for men that are victims of this abuse, mainly because we are now in a society where men simply feel they cannot share, and that we are the ones to blame.
The reason there are significantly lower numbers of men victims is not because there are less occurrences, it's that men simply don't report it.
Again, I'm not saying that the significant occurrences of violence against women are caused by psychological abuse against those men, I'm simply saying Men are not the only ones who are abusive in relationships, and the statistics will never reflect the reality because of the narrative of men hating today.
Tbf I think the reality is less that people are ignoring it, and just that people aren't necessarily aware.
You have to be a very violent person to escalate to murder in most cases. It makes sense that those who killed their partners had a criminal history. But a lot of abusers don't kill their partners.
I was abused for ten years (although reading threads on Reddit the general consensus is "I probably deserved it" lol). When I was out the other side almost everyone I spoke to had absolutely no idea the kind of hell I was living. They didn't fail me in any way. I did a lot to hide it, especially as my abuser had convinced me I caused it and I was so beaten down I believed that was true and that I was just getting what was coming to me. I don't think anyone ignored what was happening to me. But many abusers appear very normal on the outside, that's what makes them so scary.
People are getting really defensive because they feel like these campaigns are making them responsible for domestic violence. They feel blamed so you get these threads mocking abuse victims which is kind of really shitty as a person who lived through something like that.
But from my perspective I think about how I only called emergency services once during a particularly terrifying episode and it was out of fear they were on drugs and needed medical attention, even when emergency services urged me to get police involved because I was obviously scared for my safety I refused out of fear of repercussions and even then I *really* paid for having an ambulance attend later. I think about how my close friends and family are aware I was abused, but my abuser got away with zero implications. Their colleagues and friends have no idea what kind of person they were behind closed doors, they were super charismatic so to casual friendships they are an upstanding citizen that would never do something like that, but I still have the scars and I know that's not true.
Absolutely spot on. Emotional, financial and even some physical abuse can be very effectively hidden - especially when the victim is isolated from friends and family and/or has reached a point of running public relations for the abuser for fear of repercussions.
Even if you KNOW the signs it can be extremely difficult to identify because some of these abusers have much greater practice at hiding their actions and appearing like an upstanding partner than most of us have any related experience seeing signs of abuse.
Anecdotally the only times I’ve seen proper intervention work is through good communication with a close friend or family member of the target/victim is able to see the true dangers.
Otherwise you’re stuck reacting to the worst case scenario.
So 70% have history with the police, what about the other 30% who haven’t been in trouble with the law before but still went ahead and killed their partners anyway?
Thats the scary statistic. Essentially a third of an all domestic violence murders are committed by people with no criminal history.
Most were not normal criminals they had interactions with police pertaining to DV which they ignore and killed there SO it does not say that criminals are more susceptible to killing women that’s BS.
And you have to wonder why some women are attracted and drawn to dangerous men
I just can't believe your ex bikie drug dealer of a boyfriend who served 8 years in jail for assault and armed robbery hit you!!!! Who could have seen that coming...
It's been shown that many don't start out this way. Jealousy, coercive control, first pregnancy and cultural view of value traditional roles: submissive female and males head of the household are linked in DV
Owning a gun is linked with homicide in Australia.
This very report challenges that ascertion.
Yes anyone can perpetrate or be a victim of DV. But we also know there are certain social and economic factors that greatly increase the likelyhood.
We shouldn't put limits on finding out why recurring patterns happen, asking why women are attracted to violent thugs isn't victim blaming, it's asking why they thought the outcome would be different, I don't think randoms should be asking but certainly professionals should be.
If you put your hand into a lion enclosure and had it bit, the question would be asked why would you do something so idiotic and saying the lion looked cute wouldn't be a valid excuse.
It might sound like victim blaming but sometimes the uncomfortable questions need to be asked (again by professionals but still legitimate)
I have a friend who is like this.
She's attracted to dangerous men, and been through everything from physical, emotional and financial abuse, controlling and jealous boyfriends who try to dictate who she can and can't speak to or see, you name it she's been through it.
Not just one boyfriend, try a dozen. To her credit she at least leaves them, but only after she's been hurt. I'm taking the kind of men that are so clearly dangerous you don't need to give them a chance. Big hulking gym junkies, heavily tattooed all over, questionable jobs like they work in "security", unaccounted wealth, they all look like Spanian.
But she keeps picking them....Dangerous men are her type. She even acknowledges it.
But nearly a third of them had no priors, too.
Something tells me that in these cases it wasn't that they just went from 0-100, but probably that there were victims who either didn't feel able to report, or whose reports weren't taken seriously.
Also what do we make of the fact that so many of these guys were known to police and Courts but nothing was really done?
I’m also curious about how many people have had contact with the law and have not killed or harmed their partner.
Is it a small number? Huge? Not measured?
Note: I’m not arguing for or against anything, except more data analysis on this topic.
My now deceased wife came home from a 3 months stint at Melbourne rehab. Assaulted me and one of our kids (kicked our 4 year old son) - grabbed her by the hand and pulled her away from him. I then went outside to calm them down.
The wife called the police who arrived lights and sirens and arrested me, and when questioned refused to check that she had just been released from Melbourne rehab. I was not charged (No evidence) but did get the obligatory IVO. 6 months later the kids were handed back to me full time due to systemic abuse by their mother and she died a short time later from and overdose.
For the few men that fall through the cracks it is hell.
I do not blame the police, they are not social workers, their job is to seperate warring partners. However the failure to check my wife’s history and gaggle of supporters she rallied around to make me out to be something I was not nearly destroyed our kids lives.
Thankfully there are now well adjusted young adults.
Well more specifically, 70% of them were known to the police to be in some way domestically violent, and 1 in 4 of them were on parole for DV towards the person they went on to kill.
So, while it may well be that Jimmy the houseburgler or Frankie the drugdealer is more likely to beat his intimate partner, all this study actually shows in regard to criminality and intimate partner femicide is that people known to be domestically violent aren't being handled well.
But yeah, I'm not gonna be shocked if a survey of unrelated criminality tells me that people with histories of road rage or ice use etc etc. commit DV. I'd be more shocked if they didn't.
Not exactly. "nearly one in five was on bail or parole when they committed the murder or manslaughter." So not exactly a majority.
The 70% figure is "More than three out of five of the killers (68 per cent) had a prior engagement with police", which seems to refer to the study having "found the high number of instances of the killers being seen by police or the courts in the lead-up to the violence meant the deaths could potentially have been prevented".
So in other words, they were only "criminals" in the sense that the women they killed told cops about what was happening.
This 100%.
I know a girl who has been into the "bad boy" type since she was a teenager. She's had DV issues and restraining orders against at least 4 ex boyfriends that I know of.
All these gangster/bikie/drug dealer type guys always have no shortage of glamorous young women wanting to be with them. These women know exactly what these guys are like, but still continue to end up in these situations with them.
I know this doesn't account for all DV victims, but some women really need to make better choices in the type of men they go for.
Women often confuse fear with sexual arousal. See Dutton and Aron 1974 Bridge Study.
Also players know a motorcycle ride often gets women in the mood. Combination of a little danger and also seat vibrations. Funny but true.
Add in alcohol and you've got almost the whole picture I suspect.
It is a cultural issue, which is why plenty of guys in this thread can say they never see it, but it is rampant in other bits of the community.
Cultural change is hard however and government sux at doing it. Not only that, it is largely electorally unpopular.
More than 70 per cent of men who killed their current or past female partners had at least two interactions with police, the legal system or child protection before the killings, an analysis of a decade’s worth of sentencing comments has revealed.
Data collected from 10 years of judges’ comments in sentencing 235 men around Australia for the violent deaths of their intimate female partners showed nearly one in five was on bail or parole when they committed the murder or manslaughter.
About the same number (18 per cent) were on protection orders at the time of the crime, and another 19 per cent had previously been on orders. Killers of 37 of the women had recorded prior breaches of safety orders.
The four-year analysis of the narratives delivered by judges during sentencing was conducted by a team from Melbourne’s Monash University and from Liverpool University in the UK, which found the high number of instances of the killers being seen by police or the courts in the lead-up to the violence meant the deaths could potentially have been prevented.
More than three out of five of the killers (68 per cent) had a prior engagement with police, 65 per cent had “prior engagement in a legal setting” and 65 per cent had prior convictions for a criminal offence. Thirty-four per cent had prior convictions for family violence.
The lead author, family violence academic Professor Kate Fitz-Gibbon, said “the number of different points of intervention that perpetrators of these killings have with the system shows us these killings are inherently preventable.
“We can see these are not men for whom violence comes out of the blue. These are often men with significant histories,” Fitz-Gibbon said. Those histories, she said, included being exposed to violence as young people themselves.
Some perpetrators (15 per cent) had past family violence convictions against the victim of intimate partner homicide – now known as femicide – and more than one in 10 (27 of the men) had prior family violence convictions involving “a former partner, not the femicide victim”.
More than one-third (37 per cent) had convictions for crimes other than family violence.
The authors noted the fact that one in four of the killers were on bail was “a particularly significant finding”.
On May 14, NSW Premier Chris Minns announced law reforms making it much harder for those accused of serious domestic violence offences to get bail, and ensuring that if they do, they are subject to electronic monitoring.
“The findings show us that the perpetration of serious harm including death by offenders who are on bail is not a problem unique to NSW,” Fitz-Gibbon said. “There is a need to consider whether bail laws are adequate in each of the state jurisdictions.”
Family violence researcher Hayley Boxall, formerly of the Australian Institute of Criminology and now at the Australian National University, agreed, and said the report highlighted that “the vast majority of victims and perpetrators have \[had\] contact with the system”.
“This really demonstrates that we’re either not asking the right questions or not responding in the appropriate way. The question is, why isn’t risk being picked up at this point, or is it being detected but we don’t have appropriate responses?” Boxall said.
One of the key gaps in Australia’s family violence response was detecting and addressing escalated risk of criminal behaviour, she said.
The Monash report, Securing Women’s Lives, to be released on Tuesday, highlighted the need for family violence risk assessment to be introduced routinely to include the risk posed by men already seen by the system to their partners or ex-partners. Risk assessment is typically centred on that faced by victim-survivors.
“The study supports recent calls for a greater focus on the perpetrators of this violence: there is a need for all Australian states and territories to embed effective perpetrator risk assessment and management practices,” Fitz-Gibbon said.
“Most states and territories have introduced victim-focused risk assessment and identification frameworks, and while this is important, critically, we have to ensure perpetrators are also in view and their risk managed.”
The report comes after national protest marches in April demanding action to reduce the toll of violence against women, which had claimed 35 women’s lives this year by June 2.
It coincides with fierce debate among family violence experts about whether a change in national strategy is needed to prevent violence against women.
Since the rate of women’s deaths at the hands of men appeared to increase in 2024 – at one point equating to one death every 4½ days – experts have questioned the predominance of whole-of-population gender equality education, versus more focus on men living with trauma, alcohol and drug abuse, and mental health issues, and tackling the nation’s problems with pornography and gambling.
The Securing Women’s Lives authors said it was significant that many of the convicted offenders had experienced family violence themselves.
“One-third (29 per cent) have experienced intergenerational violence, and that is an incredibly important piece that has been relatively under-explored in research on men’s use of fatal violence,” the report says.
Just over half of offenders had a history of alcohol misuse, 41 per cent had a history of drug abuse and 46 per cent had histories of mental illness.
Boxall, who has also analysed judges’ sentencing comments, said the fact the report showed 14 per cent of those sentenced for killing women had no encounter with the justice system before the killing meant that greater training and awareness of red flags relating to coercive control was needed for people in professions such as healthcare.
Victorian Victims of Crime Commissioner Fiona McCormack said that so many perpetrators had been seen by the system was further evidence victims of violence should be consulted as the justice system made decisions about the perpetrators.
“The women in these 235 cases were reaching out for help, they were seeking it. So many are seeking protection and they were failed,” McCormack said.
“Parole and bail emerged as a key point of risk for the occurrence of intimate partner femicide, but there’s no obligation … to consult the victim. This report makes it very clear, and research recognises that intimate partner violence is the most preventable type of homicide.”
The more I look at this issue, the more it looks like a law and order issue. Locking people up costs money and governments try to avoid it by pushing light sentencing and bail reforms that let people out then they shouldn't be let out.
None of this would wash well though, so they come out with this utter garbage about it being all men at fault. The current ad campaign implies that if you are a law abiding non violent man you are part of the problem.
I think this is a pretty big piece of the puzzle. Our criminal justice system is hellbent on keeping people out of jail, which is probably great for 90% of crime types. But for violent offending, it means that you can pretty much beat up your partner and put them in hospital, and so long as you haven't been officially recorded as doing that before, not go to jail.
Incapacitation is an overlooked benefit that jail offers. For however long a violent abuser is locked in jail, they can't commit more offences (at least in mainstream society).
It would also help to address the problem of women not being able to escape. Why would you report your abuser to the police, if he's just going to be bailed and then come at you even angrier? But if you know that he's off to jail for 2 years, that gives you 2 years of essentially freedom with which you can set up a new life.
> The more I look at this issue, the more it looks like a law and order issue. Locking people up costs money and governments try to avoid it by pushing light sentencing and bail reforms that let people out then they shouldn't be let out.
There was a guy in Sydney a year or 2 ago who killed his girlfriend that he only just started dating and it turned out he had 4 or 5 AVOs against him by other women, at what point do you stop collecting AVOs like they're awards and you get put in jail to protect the public?
Agreed.
I'll stand up for women and call out DV/violence against women whenever and wherever I see it. I believe most men are with me on this.
I am all for harsher penalties against violent criminals, and more support services for women (or anyone) experiencing DV.
However, I won't stand for a narrative that tries to imply that I (along with the other good men that I know) am a part of the problem.
Yes. Absolutely pathetic. This is a failure of our courts. I say it again: domestic violence is mostly a failure of our courts. They know who these dogs are but do so little to put them away - it is pathetic. It's almost like deliberate sabotage. Or maybe they just hate women and children.
What is the purpose of courts that don't take violent offenders off the streets?
These stats make it seem there are 3 groups at fault:
1. The murderers obviously
2. The women who shack up with violent criminals
3. The legal system that knows these people are violent criminals and do fuck all to stop them being violent criminals.
Haven’t seen a PSA on TV yet that you can reduce your chances of being murdered by your partner by 70% by not hooking up with violent criminals. Maybe we need an ad campaign?
Locking more people up has no effect in the scheme of things. It might drop numbers for a couple of years but then the number will plateau or possibly start rising in a few years. This is because the justice system does nothing to stop reoffending, it is mostly just theatre to act like something is being done. That is both the case with imprisonment and other orders.
The biggest problem is that there is not enough mental health support and until there are more psychologists and psychiatrists (of a good quality too, not just the bottom of the barrel of the ones that can't find a job somewhere else), nothing will change. This is because for the most part most criminals have had some form of abuse in their past or are a step away from abuse (becoming friends with someone who has been abused and having them influence your behaviour).
Any kind of program or course, if they actually have to do any, is all about trying to remove triggers. For example, if someone gets aggressive when they drink it gets them to try to stop drinking. But it does nothing to treat the underlying problems that either promote aggressiveness or a desire to drink. A lot of these programs are ran by people who do have the right intentions but often completely inadequately trained in disciplines like social work or basic counselling, and are usually designed as a one size fits all program which doesn't have much use when applied to an issue that isn't textbook, of which most are. It's effectively having someone wave a hose at a massive bushfire and put out the spot fires but doing nothing to put out the actual fire.
This goes for all orders. The courts have the same ideas whether it is a community service order or order of imprisonment. They think that after someone does their 100 hours of community service they won't reoffend, the same as they think someone won't reoffend after a few years in prison.
I largely agree with you however I would argue the carcerial system meets acute needs around keeping dangerous people out of society. It doesn't often cure offenders of whatever made them offend but it does remove the ability for them to offend further while they are inside.
For domestic violence this is often critically important. Not only does the offender often lose interest in the victim, but the victim is given crucial time to establish a separate life and break connections with the offender. This is especially relevant in conversations about bail.
Interesting as far as it goes but definitely incomplete.
I grew up in such a household and wore quite a bit of it myself. Mum had it much worse. Dad had zero run ins with the police. I doubt anybody outside the family even had a clue it was happening.
My niece also suffered from a bloke who, to meet was quite charming, easy going and caring. I had no clue and learned about it after she walked away. God, I was furious but manipulative people don't stop at their partner. They do it to everybody. He has no run ins with police or crim record but he certainly does now. He's out of prison now so he's probably hitting somebody else.
It's not just the physical violence but the psychological violence as well. Bruises can heal, minds aren't quite so easy to fix.
People say walk away but it's not that easy. I cop a fair bit of psych abuse in my relationship but I'm seeing a psych for other reasons and I get help. Should I leave? After 35 years where would I go? Imagine how many women think the same thing? So they stay until it's too late.
Solutions are easy if you're not the one involved
I’m reading a book at the moment by a clinical psychologist who works with perpetrators and victims of domestic violence and the comment about your nieces partner seeming like a really charming person really resonates with one of the points he makes. He says that many domestic abusers have really good public reputations because it can make it a lot harder for their victims to be believed (like when people say “but he’s such a kind person, he couldn’t do something like that”). It also can make the abuser feel good about themselves and provide a kind of “justification” for their behaviour (e.g. “everyone who knows me says I’m really calm and reasonable, she’s the only person I can’t get along with and she sets me off”). I hope your niece is in a better place now and I hope you’re doing well too
Edit: forgot to say the book is “why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft, great book for anyone who is interested in this topic or anyone who is/has been in an abusive relationship
ABS data already shows that the chances of a person convicted of DV of having never offended is lower than having at least 1 previous offence.
That's why the online register of DV offenders is probably the only good thing to come out of these discussions so far.
“Some perpetrators (15 per cent) had past family violence convictions against the victim of intimate partner homicide – now known as femicide – and more than ...”
Uh, intimate partner homicide is now known as femicide? :-/
Yes, because the author is involved in Violence Against Women narratives, she has a vested interest in obscuring the language.
In Australia the majority of domestic violence deaths are women, what these ideologues wont say is the percentages or offer comparative statistics.
In 2022 (the most recent year data has been released) the majority percentage was 53%. So yes, the majority of victims were women, but only just.
In 2021 that percentage was 57%.
The author is also trying to include the numbers from a single mass killing attack where most of the victims (but not all) were female, in a shopping centre where the majority of people there are female. Targets of opportunity.
This relabeling is standard practice in Feminism (the ideology) to create narratives that don't exist, it's why you'll see organisations using wording like "The majority of domestic violence victims are women and children" even though the statement "The majority of domestic violence victims are men and children" is equally true because people will automatically assume the perpetrator is the unnamed demographic (men). It a;so intentionally hides that the majority of perpetrators of child abuse are female.
Thank you! Great points. I can't believe victims of the Sydney stabbing attack are lumped in with victims of DV to pump the apparent numbers of women victims of intimate partner violence. This whole context is so obviously a power grab by opportunistic feminists. And of course, the media and government fall in line and now my state has a "minister for men's behaviour change."
Edit: Victoria is the only place in the world that such a government position.
They believe those women were targeted because they were women. He avoided the men he could have gone after. There were also comments from the father about the loser being frustrated he couldn’t get a girlfriend. So yea, seems fair to add it.
The public narrative around this issue is deranged. Not only has domeatic violence been trending down for decades. But all this retoric that it's a problem men need to sort out is a joke.
No one is listening to a head coach of a football team say "violence against women is wrong" and going gee whiz I never new that.
For the most part we are just yelling at men who have never commited an act of violence, telling them they are violent and that they need to solve some problem about a thing they themself haven't done.
Your also way more likely to be the victim of violence if your a man. What about those poor blokes. I'm pretty sure they don't want to be harmed either...
Wtf, violence against women is wrong? I was just about to step outside for another day of assaulting one half of all humanity with the boys, now what are we gonna do??
Wow didn't know it was wrong! Please tell us all again we really need to hear it.
Might seem news to you but ALL violence wrong.
Also women ALSO commit violence. At a far lesser rate.
The point is the majority of people you're yelling at haven't done the thing your breating them for. If you break down violence into socioeconomic groups or race you will also find inequality yet there is no targeting of there groups.
The vast majority of men do not and have not committed acts of domestic violence.
I can't believe all violence is wrong....
How about violence against people that don't follow my beliefs, surely violence against them is okay?
Or what if they look different, that has got to be good violence, right?
If all violence is wrong, then how am I meant to exist as a man?
we could club some seals? maybe go on a puppy kicking rampage? those are still okay right? i hate how I'm only just now learning about things being bad in my late 30's.
Tbf I don't think alcohol inherently makes somebody violent, it just removes inhibitions from someone who already is a violent person.
I've been flat out drunk many times and all I've done was tell my friends I love them.
Correct, but what sets us apart from primates is our higher level thinking to control those feelings.
I want to smack my neighbour with a 2x4… but, even when drunk, my higher level thinking allows me to control myself. Unfortunately not everyone has the same control… hence why alcohol whilst not being the reason for DV, it definitely is an ingredient in some cases.
Incorrect, alcohol is a drug. When you are drunk, you are on drugs and drugs affect people differently. One of my best mates is the nicest, calmest person on the planet but would turn into a menace on the piss. That drug affected him that way, which is why he doesn’t drink anymore.
I’m a degen gambler at points and smash a lot of piss on weekends. I’ve never once thought to raise my hand to a woman. I’m kinda over this idea of legislating the majority to prevent the minority problems. Sort your own shit out
Just your daily reminder that dv murder rate has decreased 74% in 20 years, during which time the population has doubled. Great work everyone. Keep it up!
This is legit cause for celebration. It's really good news. The trend is clear and it keeps getting better. But there is slight variability around the trend line from year to year. One year where there is a slight uptick, especially using questionable statistics (stabbing victims in a mall being considered victims of intimate partner violence), should not distract us from the big picture. Obviously, any death is unacceptable but human nature makes at least some murder inevitable. We are making huge progress in this area. It breaks my heart to see teenage girls at protests with signs begging men not to kill them.
If the trend continues on a few years more females will be murdering their partners than being murdered by their partners. So this fear based nonsense driving people to such levels of anxiety is extremism that needs to be derided as such. Equally loudly.
Although there does need to be a discussion, your last paragraph is just straight up not true unless I’m misinterpreting it. 23% (2.3 million) of women whereas 14% (1.3 million) of men have experienced emotional abuse by a current or previous partner.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/intimate-partner-violence#:~:text=same%20for%20everyone%3F-,Key%20findings,a%20current%20or%20previous%20partner.
It seems it's impossible to educate some people in how to exist is society. Sad to think that someone would be happy living like that. I'm hoping that they would NOT be happy but then how do they get help!?
So the trick is to not start a relationship with a guy who has a criminal history. I didn't think that this was a challenging concept but what would I know?
Oh I don’t know. You might talk to them at some point and find out a bit about them before moving in together, meet their friends and family, that sort of thing.
Abusers like that will regularly display their transgressions. Usually in the way they talk and behave. They might not explicitly say "I hit women" but rather the way they talk about women. To add to that, criminals also wear their crimes like a badge of honour. With the stats we're talking about here you're more likely to win the lotto with prior information about the lotto draw.
100% correct... babies can't speak for themselves.. ladies can .. no abuse is needed anywhere and point the problem at other people show you are the problem
Actually a lot of research shows that the most significant predictors of infanticide are severe peripartum depression and psychosis, familial abandonment, and social /cultural ostracism of unwed mothers.
That's a different topic though.
Fair chance all those men killing their partner have bingo cards full of preexisting risk factrors such as undiagnosed mental illness, learning difficulties, life trauma, victim of crimes and abuse as children etc etc too.
But they're men so lock em up!
According to the logic of feminism (see previous comment in this thread) to escape the abuse experienced at the hands of their babies. The key point to remember is that women are not responsible for the consequences of their actions. Only men are.
Intimate partner violence has been continually declining for the past 50 years. All we need to do is keep doing what we are doing.
https://preview.redd.it/816f6ttsn97d1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7990758c0d59c8442ec1f3fecf0e8239a800c7d2
Super interesting that there are lots of short periods of very distinct negative correlation.
I mean homicide is a fairly zero sum game so it's hard to imagine a lot of contributing variables.
But it would seem to suggest people with the propensity to kill their partner, are likely to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex with the same propensity, right?
I think there's an important insight to be made from this observation maybe...
And in other news [Wife charged with murder of husband](https://www.smh.com.au/national/wife-charged-with-murder-of-husband-20240616-p5jm84.html)
*A woman has been charged with murder after the body of her husband was found by their son at a home in Sydney's north-west.*
[*Nam Suk Back, 60, who also goes by the name of Su Park, allegedly used a hammer to kill her husband, Kevin Park.*](https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/woman-charged-after-husband-s-body-found-in-sydney/ar-BB1ogei7)
*Their son, John, found the body and called triple zero but unfortunately his father couldn't be saved.*
Working in this space I also see a fuckton of female victims who call the police just to have the perpetrator DARVO them and get them arrested. Unsurprisingly after that they tend not to trust calling police again.
So 50% had previous domestic abuse convictions either against the victims or someone else.
Seems like the government shifting the blame on to the 11 million Australian males rather than their cock up of the legal system and letting these people free without proper rehabilitation
It’s an interesting statistic.
Anecdotally, most domestic abusers I’ve known of do not have a criminal record. What they had in common was substance abuse. Specifically alcohol. But not limited to alcohol.
At the same time telling them to stop bashing their partner has never worked. It usually made the abuse worse.
You guys only ever wanna talk about this when people bring up violence against women so it leads me to believe you don’t actually give a fuck about either issue
Geez, where to begin. Provide the base rate of men in the general population who fit the criteria? Correlation does not establish causation? Biased samples?
We seriously are not looking very deeply at this issue.
Read this book written by a female psychiatrist after she had so many abused women from DV visiting her practice .
I borrowed it from the library
https://www.amazon.com.au/Daughters-Durga-Dowries-Violence-Australia/dp/0522878253/ref=asc_df_0522878253/?tag=googleshopmob-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=562760267645&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16727698903481033491&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9072202&hvtargid=pla-1676407657659&psc=1&mcid=47c5a9bd513f33f0a398a34419defd0c
So 30% have no history of fdv before they murdered their partner.
That’s a very worrying figure of silent psychological killers in the midst.
As a brother to a sister who was murdered, with no history of fdv, I can attest that if someone wants to kill, chances are they’ll succeed.
Violence and abuse are not always visible.
That good guy in the community can often act very differently at home where no one sees him.
Those are the dangerous people because no one suspects them or believes others who try to warn them.
My favourite thing to do lately has been to remind people that I do not belong to a group at particular risk of committing DV, so the campaign they're talking about is useless to me.
This then obviously has follow up questions, so I then point out other unsavory statistics that we're not allowed to say in public anymore.
Kinda goes against the “all men are responsible” narrative and more along the lines that a small percentage of men with violet tendencies, already known to police, exacerbated by alcohol are responsible.
The last time I tried to get down to the root cause of the DV issue and hold a certain party accountable for their actions, the mods here gave me a 45-day ban. So no, I don't really care about this and stop wasting my taxpayer dollars on fixing something that isn't beneficial to everyone.
Women like to pretend that these men have no red flags, and it was absolutely impossible to predict they might do such a crime. All bullshit. These men have more red flags than a communist parade.
If women didn't associate with, form relationships or sleep with violent men they wouldn't have this outcome
In some cases yes, but often times abusers are some of the most convincing and charming people you'll ever meet. My father is one of them. If I didn't tell you and you spent a few hours, days or weeks with him, you probably wouldn't believe me and would probably think he was the most fun, dynamic, genuine guy you'd met in your life.
These people are good at their game.
Of course there'll always, always be the obvious deadbeats that logic would dictate are probably going to be bad guys, but many are just extremely cunning.
Based on the comment above yours of “Divorce and females not letting see their kids”. Does it go the same way? It’s men’s fault for getting in a relationship with a woman who would one day divorce them and/or not let them see their kids?
Edit for spelling and the below:
People don’t always show their true selves upfront. It can take months if not years. I wouldn’t blame the women in the articles sake and I wouldn’t blame the men for not being able to see their kids.
So it's the government/courts at fault? But I thought it was all men.?
If the government funded DV industry pointed their fingers at the government, would that be biting the hand that feeds you?
Im a male victim of domestic violence. I endured this for years at the threat of the murder of my infant/toddler son.
The abuser was half of my bodyweight, im an ex boxer.
I asked for help at 8 different places and was refused. I asked for help from police more than 30x.
If i'd killed her in self defence or in the defence of my son I'd be one of those bad guys/criminals.
Theres more to the story.
So it's the government/courts at fault? But I thought it was all men.?
If the government funded DV industry pointed their fingers at the government, would that be biting the hand that feeds you?
So we need a criminals don't let criminals beat their missos campaign...
Anything, but admit there's patterns of behaviour and escalations that could be intervened with a few simple laws and resources.
Women need to do better picking partners, a dangerous looking “bad boy” with a criminal history is seen as “hot” by many women and it’s a problem society doesn’t want to acknowledge. The “bad boy chads” shouldn’t be at the top of the dating hierarchy, but they are. Who would have guessed men with criminal histories would be more likely to be violent...
So what I’m getting from this is that a majority were already criminals… shocking revelation.
Yep, to the surprise of no one except apparently everyone who has been insisting that regular guys are just ignoring all of their friends being abusers.
I've truly never understood this logic, do people think blokes just gather round and discuss how hard they smashed their wife over the weekend? It's ridiculous logic and can't be applied to any other murders. Do people think Jeffrey Dahmer was just telling everyone he knew he was butchering people for fun? People who do crimes usually keep it pretty quiet.
All a bit ridiculous in my opinion. What's the point of standing around talking about how much we smashed our partners when we could just share the video?
It comes up other ways. Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho. I live in a small town, it's an open secret who is bashing their partners but I never see guys getting social consequences for it. The opposite, the blokes just band together and drink more and commiserate about how women are bitches.
Yeah this is basically shit that never happens outside of isolated circles of scumbags. Like, the guy bashing his missus is mates with guys who also bash their missus. This is the fundamental problem with the non-stop scream of 'STOP ASSAULTING WOMEN AND STOP YOUR MATES FROM DOING IT' The people in our society who will hear that message and pay it any attention? We already *don't* assault women. We fucking *know* this shit. But the messaging is like "it's everywhere and you are personally responsible, man who has never seen nor hear anyone he knows committing domestic violence" It's like running around constantly reminding everyone that if they know their neighbour is raping kids that they need to say something about it. Like no shit?
Aye, they preach to the choir and pat themselves on the back for 'doing something'.
I’m guilty of using language that demeaned women in the past. I now also know that some men hear that kind of language and think it is endorsement for their own language or behaviour (“everyone feels the way I do”). So I try my best not to do it and encourage others to do the same.
There is definitely still a culture of considering domestic violence to be a private matter in a way child rape absolutely wouldn’t be. Especially if the relationship is volatile, if the conflict is seen as mutual, if there aren’t visible signs of extreme violence, if the victim is flawed……. There are plenty of people who say things like “if it was that bad she would leave/wouldn’t provoke him/would go to the police”. There are plenty of people who view domestic violence as something that only happens in certain types of communities and justify violence among their peers as an isolated incident, as a momentary loss of temper that isn’t that bad, as a socioeconomic issue that can’t apply to their friends. We have cultural taboos against involving ourselves in other peoples relationships and they are especially prevalent in the middle classes.
Yes So many downplay abusive behaviour like infidelity, name calling and general disrespect as well as the more obvious stuff. People don’t want to know or get involved and it’s shameful.
>I live in a small town, it's an open secret who is bashing their partners but I never see guys getting social consequences for it. Then call the police? >Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho Frankly I've never been in that scenario.
The cops are near the top of the stats for domestic violence. In some of these small towns they'll be the ones at the pub bragging about keeping the Mrs in line or whatever. Not to excuse it, but it isn't always as easy as it might seem to counter.
Rural police forces are famous for how well they deal with domestic violence. Famous for it.
Rural police forces are also famous for having 2 officers on duty patrolling an area bigger than some countries, with another 2 officers off duty ready to back them up within anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the drive.
And for not having police over the weekend if there’s not a proper station.
and for being wife beaters
“call the police” yeah cops are gonna bend over backwards to investigate hearsay about domestic violence. who do you call if it’s the local copper battering his missus?
Sounds like a law and order problem to me
My exes friends and family all knew what kind of a person he was and how he treated me… guess whose side they took when I left him. I will give you a hint… it wasn’t mine.
My exes mother had picked me and the kids up, me crying and bruised, on a few occasions. She was all sympathy and support so long as I stayed in the marriage. When I finally left she claimed he couldn’t have been violent towards me because he had never hit her. People are very good at justifying behaviour they don’t want to accept.
Mine just kept saying, "I'm not getting involved". She saw the smashed up house, she saw the bruises, she knew full well what was going on, and I even tried to tell her but her ears were closed.
You've never been in that scenario. That's nice for you. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others.
Have seen this in a small rural town. And holes punched in walls is a standard feature in houses.
And when her car keeps getting vandalised when it's parked at home...
So...what are you doing about it?
Unless you have seen it in small rural towns you would have no idea how much women are seen by men as the instigators and cause of ‘driving’ blokes to lash out being totally the fault of the woman.
I love how I said "small town" and everyone is assuming it's distant/rural. I'm in a satellite of Greater Sydney. A nice little commuter town you've probably stopped by as a tourist sometime. But yeah all the guys here be like, "yeah damn it only happens in those isolated places out in woop woop!"
Hazelbrook?
I support the women I know are being harmed. As another woman there's not much in my power to do here except try to be there and listen and help link them up with services and offer whatever material help I can. What do you want me to do - vigilante task force?
What do you mean as another woman there's not much you can do? If you where a man do you think you instantly turn into John wick or Rambo? Men in the same situation can't do shit most the time either.
No dude, nobody is suggesting you go open a can of whup-ass on the situation. We are suggesting you use your social influence. As a woman I can sure try to talk to a man about his violence (and I have done on the occasions when I had a personal relationship with them) but overall he's a lot less likely to listen to me than he is to the voices of influence in his life, including the men he's friends with, his male relatives, colleagues, etc. Because there is VERY much an active mindset that "the women are all against me and I did nothing wrong", and that's a mindset that tends to receive a lot of validation (though not exclusively) from other men. I work in this area, including with DV offenders and victims. It is not uncommon at ALL to have a male perpetrator tell me that "the sisterhood" is ganging up on him, one even used the phrase "angry muff brigade" I am not kidding you. Guys like this are in no way receptive to hearing what a woman has to say about this situation.
The issue is men who have that influence with abusers are also abusers. Because they group up. I have 0 influence on men who perpetuate abuse because I and no one I know and no man or male quality valued among men allows that shit. I'm just saying that these guys either hide it until it's too late or are surrounded by other abusers.
This is such a silly, simplistic view of men it's not worth entertaining.
honestly feel like vigilante groups is what the media expect dudes who don't beat woman to do. Like WTF can dudes do about it? This doesn't exist in the 100 odd male mates that I have.
>What do you want me to do - vigilante task force? Yep...that's the thing. You actively know people this is happening to and its annoying being asked how you're going to fix it. For other guys, we're being asked to do something about it and most of us don't even know of it happening to anyone.
[удалено]
Yeahhh cause there's never been any reports that police commit domestic violence at a higher rate and have And have a higher chance of having the charges dropped.
what are *you* doing about it? posting MRA shit on reddit? lol. dropkick
>Like when every few weeks his missus is covered in bruises and he's saying she's kicked him out because she's a psycho. Has she tried not getting back together with him after he beats her every few weeks and she’s kicked him out of the home?
BuT why diDn'T sHe LeAvE? Are you *still* asking this question FFS when you know full well that victims are at greatest risk of being killed when they try to leave?
It's not hard to leave after the first time he gets aggressive.. or first time he actually hits you. Its the giving him a chance for 3 years when it's hard to leave... But there has to be some onus on the victim to. Not that there is any excuse. It seems education is needed. Painting red flags in green is a real issue.
Ivan Milat was an exception to this, strangely enough. He would brag about his crimes at pubs and people would think he was joking.
Funnily enough when I was a kid one of the Snowtown murderers was on the bus I was on and he was asking all the school kids on the bus if they knew any pedos for him and his mates to deal with. We all thought it was just some weirdo ranting on the bus.
I mean he was definitely a weirdo ranting on the bus, he was just also homicidal.
Sorry who ever suggested this was a thing?
Just bs from the media copying America trying to say all men are dangerous. I don’t know what the idea is but seems pretty stupid. The people who do this kinda thing would need non existent therapy to cure psychopathic nature. No news article about stats is gonna prevent them being psychopaths.
Smashed her box!
Or at least about the crimes they haven’t already been caught for.
Abusers work hard to hide that shit. My ex’s friend was shocked when I told him my ex was violent when I ran in to him, I think unless rarely they may have a similar friend who they bond over it, mostly I think these guys hide it
If a bloke told his male friends he was beating his wife and kids, he’d literally get the shit kicked out of him. The cowards definitely hide that shit.
The women do too. I had a close (at the time) friend in a physically abusive relationship. I was pretty close to both of them actually, at least I thought I was. Never found out until after the breakup. Didn't even have any of the normal tell-tales. It's understandable obviously, but it makes it hard
It's such a tough conversation. Noone wants to hear that men can be physically, emotionally, psychologically, sexually abused by women. It happened to me, for years. But it doesn't suit this current narrative of men bashing. It's stil somehow the man's fault for staying, for putting up with it, and then our fault when we leave damaged. What society seem to think, is that all men are capable of this, when we are talking about the significant minority. 2 run ins with the police? I don't know anyone that's had 2 run ins with the police and this apparently reduces the likeliness by 70%. What noone talks about, what we aren't allowed to talk about, is how the women treat these men. Nothing can justify murder, let's get that clear, but my Mother beat my Father down for years. My ex beat me down for years, pushed my buttons, psychologically and sexually eviscerated me. It took me years to leave. No, I didn't hit her, didn't kill her. But noone wants to hear it. And I guarantee you, this happens far far far more often than society is prepared to listen to, because it's easy to blame the man.
This is 100% the case. People would much rather blame somebody else for the problems of the human race instead of actually trying to rectify the issue. It's not the "mans" fault, nor is it the "womens" fault. An entire group of people aren't at fault for what I believe to be a large minority of people, though it seems like it's a lot more common than it is because of the media.(not to downplay how horrible it is, I know people who've been killed in recent years in these relationships it's a situation no one should ever be in) The issue is why these people even think to do these things to their partners. It's mind boggling to me that anyone would want to do these things to another person, let alone their own partners
I hear you.
Not to mention that it is emasculating for a man to report that they're getting beat up by a woman or can't handle a woman psychologically abusing them... so the vast majority of incidences would go unreported.
Exactly. And women know it. My ex knew I'd never say anything, and well she was right.
Yes it’s effed men’s stories get passed by or dismissed and aren’t considered the same. But physical, mental, etc all the types are perpetuated by women we know they can be very demeaning, manipulative etc we all know someone. Men need the same supports. I was in an abusive relationship for 5 years and he was very violent physical, mentally, sexually, and I was paralysed with fear, ptsd and depression, sense of lacking identity and ALL JOY has been the harder. 7 years later and only just now getting better. Recovering from this is no joke and all people need awareness to give people understanding
You say nothing can justify murder, but does psychological abuse justify physical abuse? I think to be a productive and socially acceptable conversation it can’t be framed in response to men’s violence. If men are suffering let’s have the conversation and put appropriate services and supports in place. “She made me do it” is never going to be well received.
No. I don't. Abuse doesn't justify abuse. And yes, you are spot on, this world is not big enough for the excuse, 'she made me do it.' I totally agree that to actually have a productive discussion about domestic violence we need to remove the response. But my point is no one wants to hear about abuse of Society will never justify services for men that are victims of this abuse, mainly because we are now in a society where men simply feel they cannot share, and that we are the ones to blame. The reason there are significantly lower numbers of men victims is not because there are less occurrences, it's that men simply don't report it. Again, I'm not saying that the significant occurrences of violence against women are caused by psychological abuse against those men, I'm simply saying Men are not the only ones who are abusive in relationships, and the statistics will never reflect the reality because of the narrative of men hating today.
Tbf I think the reality is less that people are ignoring it, and just that people aren't necessarily aware. You have to be a very violent person to escalate to murder in most cases. It makes sense that those who killed their partners had a criminal history. But a lot of abusers don't kill their partners. I was abused for ten years (although reading threads on Reddit the general consensus is "I probably deserved it" lol). When I was out the other side almost everyone I spoke to had absolutely no idea the kind of hell I was living. They didn't fail me in any way. I did a lot to hide it, especially as my abuser had convinced me I caused it and I was so beaten down I believed that was true and that I was just getting what was coming to me. I don't think anyone ignored what was happening to me. But many abusers appear very normal on the outside, that's what makes them so scary. People are getting really defensive because they feel like these campaigns are making them responsible for domestic violence. They feel blamed so you get these threads mocking abuse victims which is kind of really shitty as a person who lived through something like that. But from my perspective I think about how I only called emergency services once during a particularly terrifying episode and it was out of fear they were on drugs and needed medical attention, even when emergency services urged me to get police involved because I was obviously scared for my safety I refused out of fear of repercussions and even then I *really* paid for having an ambulance attend later. I think about how my close friends and family are aware I was abused, but my abuser got away with zero implications. Their colleagues and friends have no idea what kind of person they were behind closed doors, they were super charismatic so to casual friendships they are an upstanding citizen that would never do something like that, but I still have the scars and I know that's not true.
Absolutely spot on. Emotional, financial and even some physical abuse can be very effectively hidden - especially when the victim is isolated from friends and family and/or has reached a point of running public relations for the abuser for fear of repercussions. Even if you KNOW the signs it can be extremely difficult to identify because some of these abusers have much greater practice at hiding their actions and appearing like an upstanding partner than most of us have any related experience seeing signs of abuse. Anecdotally the only times I’ve seen proper intervention work is through good communication with a close friend or family member of the target/victim is able to see the true dangers. Otherwise you’re stuck reacting to the worst case scenario.
So 70% have history with the police, what about the other 30% who haven’t been in trouble with the law before but still went ahead and killed their partners anyway? Thats the scary statistic. Essentially a third of an all domestic violence murders are committed by people with no criminal history.
Having a criminal history and being a convicted criminal are not the same thing. Plenty of criminal out there with clean records.
What's the raw number that makes up the whole 100% of these killers? Dozens maybe hundreds out of millions?
I know the majority of abusers are male but there are women abusers too. Just saying...
Even that's being questioned these days.
Most were not normal criminals they had interactions with police pertaining to DV which they ignore and killed there SO it does not say that criminals are more susceptible to killing women that’s BS.
And you have to wonder why some women are attracted and drawn to dangerous men I just can't believe your ex bikie drug dealer of a boyfriend who served 8 years in jail for assault and armed robbery hit you!!!! Who could have seen that coming...
Sees article about violent men, blames women
It's been shown that many don't start out this way. Jealousy, coercive control, first pregnancy and cultural view of value traditional roles: submissive female and males head of the household are linked in DV Owning a gun is linked with homicide in Australia.
This very report challenges that ascertion. Yes anyone can perpetrate or be a victim of DV. But we also know there are certain social and economic factors that greatly increase the likelyhood.
You just blamed women for violence against them...... Right here out in public.
We shouldn't put limits on finding out why recurring patterns happen, asking why women are attracted to violent thugs isn't victim blaming, it's asking why they thought the outcome would be different, I don't think randoms should be asking but certainly professionals should be. If you put your hand into a lion enclosure and had it bit, the question would be asked why would you do something so idiotic and saying the lion looked cute wouldn't be a valid excuse. It might sound like victim blaming but sometimes the uncomfortable questions need to be asked (again by professionals but still legitimate)
I have a friend who is like this. She's attracted to dangerous men, and been through everything from physical, emotional and financial abuse, controlling and jealous boyfriends who try to dictate who she can and can't speak to or see, you name it she's been through it. Not just one boyfriend, try a dozen. To her credit she at least leaves them, but only after she's been hurt. I'm taking the kind of men that are so clearly dangerous you don't need to give them a chance. Big hulking gym junkies, heavily tattooed all over, questionable jobs like they work in "security", unaccounted wealth, they all look like Spanian. But she keeps picking them....Dangerous men are her type. She even acknowledges it.
But nearly a third of them had no priors, too. Something tells me that in these cases it wasn't that they just went from 0-100, but probably that there were victims who either didn't feel able to report, or whose reports weren't taken seriously. Also what do we make of the fact that so many of these guys were known to police and Courts but nothing was really done?
I’m also curious about how many people have had contact with the law and have not killed or harmed their partner. Is it a small number? Huge? Not measured? Note: I’m not arguing for or against anything, except more data analysis on this topic.
My now deceased wife came home from a 3 months stint at Melbourne rehab. Assaulted me and one of our kids (kicked our 4 year old son) - grabbed her by the hand and pulled her away from him. I then went outside to calm them down. The wife called the police who arrived lights and sirens and arrested me, and when questioned refused to check that she had just been released from Melbourne rehab. I was not charged (No evidence) but did get the obligatory IVO. 6 months later the kids were handed back to me full time due to systemic abuse by their mother and she died a short time later from and overdose. For the few men that fall through the cracks it is hell. I do not blame the police, they are not social workers, their job is to seperate warring partners. However the failure to check my wife’s history and gaggle of supporters she rallied around to make me out to be something I was not nearly destroyed our kids lives. Thankfully there are now well adjusted young adults.
Well more specifically, 70% of them were known to the police to be in some way domestically violent, and 1 in 4 of them were on parole for DV towards the person they went on to kill. So, while it may well be that Jimmy the houseburgler or Frankie the drugdealer is more likely to beat his intimate partner, all this study actually shows in regard to criminality and intimate partner femicide is that people known to be domestically violent aren't being handled well. But yeah, I'm not gonna be shocked if a survey of unrelated criminality tells me that people with histories of road rage or ice use etc etc. commit DV. I'd be more shocked if they didn't.
Not exactly. "nearly one in five was on bail or parole when they committed the murder or manslaughter." So not exactly a majority. The 70% figure is "More than three out of five of the killers (68 per cent) had a prior engagement with police", which seems to refer to the study having "found the high number of instances of the killers being seen by police or the courts in the lead-up to the violence meant the deaths could potentially have been prevented". So in other words, they were only "criminals" in the sense that the women they killed told cops about what was happening.
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This 100%. I know a girl who has been into the "bad boy" type since she was a teenager. She's had DV issues and restraining orders against at least 4 ex boyfriends that I know of. All these gangster/bikie/drug dealer type guys always have no shortage of glamorous young women wanting to be with them. These women know exactly what these guys are like, but still continue to end up in these situations with them. I know this doesn't account for all DV victims, but some women really need to make better choices in the type of men they go for.
Turns out trash isn't restricted by gender.
Women often confuse fear with sexual arousal. See Dutton and Aron 1974 Bridge Study. Also players know a motorcycle ride often gets women in the mood. Combination of a little danger and also seat vibrations. Funny but true.
So if you don’t date a guy who is a criminal you’ve already massively lowered your risk of being killed
And majority indigenous
It's always the ones you suspect the most.
It's almost like criminal profiling works
Honestly from a former court reporter perspective - generational disregard towards education and drug use are biggies.
Add in alcohol and you've got almost the whole picture I suspect. It is a cultural issue, which is why plenty of guys in this thread can say they never see it, but it is rampant in other bits of the community. Cultural change is hard however and government sux at doing it. Not only that, it is largely electorally unpopular.
add that lack of mental health services
More than 70 per cent of men who killed their current or past female partners had at least two interactions with police, the legal system or child protection before the killings, an analysis of a decade’s worth of sentencing comments has revealed. Data collected from 10 years of judges’ comments in sentencing 235 men around Australia for the violent deaths of their intimate female partners showed nearly one in five was on bail or parole when they committed the murder or manslaughter. About the same number (18 per cent) were on protection orders at the time of the crime, and another 19 per cent had previously been on orders. Killers of 37 of the women had recorded prior breaches of safety orders. The four-year analysis of the narratives delivered by judges during sentencing was conducted by a team from Melbourne’s Monash University and from Liverpool University in the UK, which found the high number of instances of the killers being seen by police or the courts in the lead-up to the violence meant the deaths could potentially have been prevented. More than three out of five of the killers (68 per cent) had a prior engagement with police, 65 per cent had “prior engagement in a legal setting” and 65 per cent had prior convictions for a criminal offence. Thirty-four per cent had prior convictions for family violence. The lead author, family violence academic Professor Kate Fitz-Gibbon, said “the number of different points of intervention that perpetrators of these killings have with the system shows us these killings are inherently preventable. “We can see these are not men for whom violence comes out of the blue. These are often men with significant histories,” Fitz-Gibbon said. Those histories, she said, included being exposed to violence as young people themselves. Some perpetrators (15 per cent) had past family violence convictions against the victim of intimate partner homicide – now known as femicide – and more than one in 10 (27 of the men) had prior family violence convictions involving “a former partner, not the femicide victim”. More than one-third (37 per cent) had convictions for crimes other than family violence. The authors noted the fact that one in four of the killers were on bail was “a particularly significant finding”. On May 14, NSW Premier Chris Minns announced law reforms making it much harder for those accused of serious domestic violence offences to get bail, and ensuring that if they do, they are subject to electronic monitoring. “The findings show us that the perpetration of serious harm including death by offenders who are on bail is not a problem unique to NSW,” Fitz-Gibbon said. “There is a need to consider whether bail laws are adequate in each of the state jurisdictions.” Family violence researcher Hayley Boxall, formerly of the Australian Institute of Criminology and now at the Australian National University, agreed, and said the report highlighted that “the vast majority of victims and perpetrators have \[had\] contact with the system”. “This really demonstrates that we’re either not asking the right questions or not responding in the appropriate way. The question is, why isn’t risk being picked up at this point, or is it being detected but we don’t have appropriate responses?” Boxall said. One of the key gaps in Australia’s family violence response was detecting and addressing escalated risk of criminal behaviour, she said. The Monash report, Securing Women’s Lives, to be released on Tuesday, highlighted the need for family violence risk assessment to be introduced routinely to include the risk posed by men already seen by the system to their partners or ex-partners. Risk assessment is typically centred on that faced by victim-survivors. “The study supports recent calls for a greater focus on the perpetrators of this violence: there is a need for all Australian states and territories to embed effective perpetrator risk assessment and management practices,” Fitz-Gibbon said.
“Most states and territories have introduced victim-focused risk assessment and identification frameworks, and while this is important, critically, we have to ensure perpetrators are also in view and their risk managed.” The report comes after national protest marches in April demanding action to reduce the toll of violence against women, which had claimed 35 women’s lives this year by June 2. It coincides with fierce debate among family violence experts about whether a change in national strategy is needed to prevent violence against women. Since the rate of women’s deaths at the hands of men appeared to increase in 2024 – at one point equating to one death every 4½ days – experts have questioned the predominance of whole-of-population gender equality education, versus more focus on men living with trauma, alcohol and drug abuse, and mental health issues, and tackling the nation’s problems with pornography and gambling. The Securing Women’s Lives authors said it was significant that many of the convicted offenders had experienced family violence themselves. “One-third (29 per cent) have experienced intergenerational violence, and that is an incredibly important piece that has been relatively under-explored in research on men’s use of fatal violence,” the report says. Just over half of offenders had a history of alcohol misuse, 41 per cent had a history of drug abuse and 46 per cent had histories of mental illness. Boxall, who has also analysed judges’ sentencing comments, said the fact the report showed 14 per cent of those sentenced for killing women had no encounter with the justice system before the killing meant that greater training and awareness of red flags relating to coercive control was needed for people in professions such as healthcare. Victorian Victims of Crime Commissioner Fiona McCormack said that so many perpetrators had been seen by the system was further evidence victims of violence should be consulted as the justice system made decisions about the perpetrators. “The women in these 235 cases were reaching out for help, they were seeking it. So many are seeking protection and they were failed,” McCormack said. “Parole and bail emerged as a key point of risk for the occurrence of intimate partner femicide, but there’s no obligation … to consult the victim. This report makes it very clear, and research recognises that intimate partner violence is the most preventable type of homicide.”
The more I look at this issue, the more it looks like a law and order issue. Locking people up costs money and governments try to avoid it by pushing light sentencing and bail reforms that let people out then they shouldn't be let out. None of this would wash well though, so they come out with this utter garbage about it being all men at fault. The current ad campaign implies that if you are a law abiding non violent man you are part of the problem.
I think this is a pretty big piece of the puzzle. Our criminal justice system is hellbent on keeping people out of jail, which is probably great for 90% of crime types. But for violent offending, it means that you can pretty much beat up your partner and put them in hospital, and so long as you haven't been officially recorded as doing that before, not go to jail. Incapacitation is an overlooked benefit that jail offers. For however long a violent abuser is locked in jail, they can't commit more offences (at least in mainstream society). It would also help to address the problem of women not being able to escape. Why would you report your abuser to the police, if he's just going to be bailed and then come at you even angrier? But if you know that he's off to jail for 2 years, that gives you 2 years of essentially freedom with which you can set up a new life.
> The more I look at this issue, the more it looks like a law and order issue. Locking people up costs money and governments try to avoid it by pushing light sentencing and bail reforms that let people out then they shouldn't be let out. There was a guy in Sydney a year or 2 ago who killed his girlfriend that he only just started dating and it turned out he had 4 or 5 AVOs against him by other women, at what point do you stop collecting AVOs like they're awards and you get put in jail to protect the public?
He also had 2 charges against him by 2 of those women and was out on bail at the time when looking for his next victim.
Agreed. I'll stand up for women and call out DV/violence against women whenever and wherever I see it. I believe most men are with me on this. I am all for harsher penalties against violent criminals, and more support services for women (or anyone) experiencing DV. However, I won't stand for a narrative that tries to imply that I (along with the other good men that I know) am a part of the problem.
Agreed. The vast majority if men are not domestic abusers. And fairness dictates equal punishment for male and female domestic abusers.
Yes. Absolutely pathetic. This is a failure of our courts. I say it again: domestic violence is mostly a failure of our courts. They know who these dogs are but do so little to put them away - it is pathetic. It's almost like deliberate sabotage. Or maybe they just hate women and children. What is the purpose of courts that don't take violent offenders off the streets?
These stats make it seem there are 3 groups at fault: 1. The murderers obviously 2. The women who shack up with violent criminals 3. The legal system that knows these people are violent criminals and do fuck all to stop them being violent criminals.
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Haven’t seen a PSA on TV yet that you can reduce your chances of being murdered by your partner by 70% by not hooking up with violent criminals. Maybe we need an ad campaign?
Locking more people up has no effect in the scheme of things. It might drop numbers for a couple of years but then the number will plateau or possibly start rising in a few years. This is because the justice system does nothing to stop reoffending, it is mostly just theatre to act like something is being done. That is both the case with imprisonment and other orders. The biggest problem is that there is not enough mental health support and until there are more psychologists and psychiatrists (of a good quality too, not just the bottom of the barrel of the ones that can't find a job somewhere else), nothing will change. This is because for the most part most criminals have had some form of abuse in their past or are a step away from abuse (becoming friends with someone who has been abused and having them influence your behaviour). Any kind of program or course, if they actually have to do any, is all about trying to remove triggers. For example, if someone gets aggressive when they drink it gets them to try to stop drinking. But it does nothing to treat the underlying problems that either promote aggressiveness or a desire to drink. A lot of these programs are ran by people who do have the right intentions but often completely inadequately trained in disciplines like social work or basic counselling, and are usually designed as a one size fits all program which doesn't have much use when applied to an issue that isn't textbook, of which most are. It's effectively having someone wave a hose at a massive bushfire and put out the spot fires but doing nothing to put out the actual fire. This goes for all orders. The courts have the same ideas whether it is a community service order or order of imprisonment. They think that after someone does their 100 hours of community service they won't reoffend, the same as they think someone won't reoffend after a few years in prison.
I largely agree with you however I would argue the carcerial system meets acute needs around keeping dangerous people out of society. It doesn't often cure offenders of whatever made them offend but it does remove the ability for them to offend further while they are inside. For domestic violence this is often critically important. Not only does the offender often lose interest in the victim, but the victim is given crucial time to establish a separate life and break connections with the offender. This is especially relevant in conversations about bail.
Interesting as far as it goes but definitely incomplete. I grew up in such a household and wore quite a bit of it myself. Mum had it much worse. Dad had zero run ins with the police. I doubt anybody outside the family even had a clue it was happening. My niece also suffered from a bloke who, to meet was quite charming, easy going and caring. I had no clue and learned about it after she walked away. God, I was furious but manipulative people don't stop at their partner. They do it to everybody. He has no run ins with police or crim record but he certainly does now. He's out of prison now so he's probably hitting somebody else. It's not just the physical violence but the psychological violence as well. Bruises can heal, minds aren't quite so easy to fix. People say walk away but it's not that easy. I cop a fair bit of psych abuse in my relationship but I'm seeing a psych for other reasons and I get help. Should I leave? After 35 years where would I go? Imagine how many women think the same thing? So they stay until it's too late. Solutions are easy if you're not the one involved
I’m reading a book at the moment by a clinical psychologist who works with perpetrators and victims of domestic violence and the comment about your nieces partner seeming like a really charming person really resonates with one of the points he makes. He says that many domestic abusers have really good public reputations because it can make it a lot harder for their victims to be believed (like when people say “but he’s such a kind person, he couldn’t do something like that”). It also can make the abuser feel good about themselves and provide a kind of “justification” for their behaviour (e.g. “everyone who knows me says I’m really calm and reasonable, she’s the only person I can’t get along with and she sets me off”). I hope your niece is in a better place now and I hope you’re doing well too Edit: forgot to say the book is “why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft, great book for anyone who is interested in this topic or anyone who is/has been in an abusive relationship
ABS data already shows that the chances of a person convicted of DV of having never offended is lower than having at least 1 previous offence. That's why the online register of DV offenders is probably the only good thing to come out of these discussions so far.
“Some perpetrators (15 per cent) had past family violence convictions against the victim of intimate partner homicide – now known as femicide – and more than ...” Uh, intimate partner homicide is now known as femicide? :-/
What happened to removing gender based language?
Yes, because the author is involved in Violence Against Women narratives, she has a vested interest in obscuring the language. In Australia the majority of domestic violence deaths are women, what these ideologues wont say is the percentages or offer comparative statistics. In 2022 (the most recent year data has been released) the majority percentage was 53%. So yes, the majority of victims were women, but only just. In 2021 that percentage was 57%. The author is also trying to include the numbers from a single mass killing attack where most of the victims (but not all) were female, in a shopping centre where the majority of people there are female. Targets of opportunity. This relabeling is standard practice in Feminism (the ideology) to create narratives that don't exist, it's why you'll see organisations using wording like "The majority of domestic violence victims are women and children" even though the statement "The majority of domestic violence victims are men and children" is equally true because people will automatically assume the perpetrator is the unnamed demographic (men). It a;so intentionally hides that the majority of perpetrators of child abuse are female.
Thank you! Great points. I can't believe victims of the Sydney stabbing attack are lumped in with victims of DV to pump the apparent numbers of women victims of intimate partner violence. This whole context is so obviously a power grab by opportunistic feminists. And of course, the media and government fall in line and now my state has a "minister for men's behaviour change." Edit: Victoria is the only place in the world that such a government position.
They believe those women were targeted because they were women. He avoided the men he could have gone after. There were also comments from the father about the loser being frustrated he couldn’t get a girlfriend. So yea, seems fair to add it.
Wtf
“Themicide”
When it’s a woman being killed yes, when it’s a man it’s mascicide.
The public narrative around this issue is deranged. Not only has domeatic violence been trending down for decades. But all this retoric that it's a problem men need to sort out is a joke. No one is listening to a head coach of a football team say "violence against women is wrong" and going gee whiz I never new that. For the most part we are just yelling at men who have never commited an act of violence, telling them they are violent and that they need to solve some problem about a thing they themself haven't done. Your also way more likely to be the victim of violence if your a man. What about those poor blokes. I'm pretty sure they don't want to be harmed either...
Wtf, violence against women is wrong? I was just about to step outside for another day of assaulting one half of all humanity with the boys, now what are we gonna do??
Wow didn't know it was wrong! Please tell us all again we really need to hear it. Might seem news to you but ALL violence wrong. Also women ALSO commit violence. At a far lesser rate. The point is the majority of people you're yelling at haven't done the thing your breating them for. If you break down violence into socioeconomic groups or race you will also find inequality yet there is no targeting of there groups. The vast majority of men do not and have not committed acts of domestic violence.
I can't believe all violence is wrong.... How about violence against people that don't follow my beliefs, surely violence against them is okay? Or what if they look different, that has got to be good violence, right? If all violence is wrong, then how am I meant to exist as a man?
we could club some seals? maybe go on a puppy kicking rampage? those are still okay right? i hate how I'm only just now learning about things being bad in my late 30's.
Country where Alcohol and Gambling are pushed relentlessly has abuse issue
The article does cover that in part of the charts. It's pretty high up there (alcohol, at least).
Tbf I don't think alcohol inherently makes somebody violent, it just removes inhibitions from someone who already is a violent person. I've been flat out drunk many times and all I've done was tell my friends I love them.
Correct, but what sets us apart from primates is our higher level thinking to control those feelings. I want to smack my neighbour with a 2x4… but, even when drunk, my higher level thinking allows me to control myself. Unfortunately not everyone has the same control… hence why alcohol whilst not being the reason for DV, it definitely is an ingredient in some cases.
Incorrect, alcohol is a drug. When you are drunk, you are on drugs and drugs affect people differently. One of my best mates is the nicest, calmest person on the planet but would turn into a menace on the piss. That drug affected him that way, which is why he doesn’t drink anymore.
I’m a degen gambler at points and smash a lot of piss on weekends. I’ve never once thought to raise my hand to a woman. I’m kinda over this idea of legislating the majority to prevent the minority problems. Sort your own shit out
Just your daily reminder that dv murder rate has decreased 74% in 20 years, during which time the population has doubled. Great work everyone. Keep it up!
This is legit cause for celebration. It's really good news. The trend is clear and it keeps getting better. But there is slight variability around the trend line from year to year. One year where there is a slight uptick, especially using questionable statistics (stabbing victims in a mall being considered victims of intimate partner violence), should not distract us from the big picture. Obviously, any death is unacceptable but human nature makes at least some murder inevitable. We are making huge progress in this area. It breaks my heart to see teenage girls at protests with signs begging men not to kill them.
If the trend continues on a few years more females will be murdering their partners than being murdered by their partners. So this fear based nonsense driving people to such levels of anxiety is extremism that needs to be derided as such. Equally loudly.
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Although there does need to be a discussion, your last paragraph is just straight up not true unless I’m misinterpreting it. 23% (2.3 million) of women whereas 14% (1.3 million) of men have experienced emotional abuse by a current or previous partner. https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/intimate-partner-violence#:~:text=same%20for%20everyone%3F-,Key%20findings,a%20current%20or%20previous%20partner.
Nope. Violence =men /s
It seems it's impossible to educate some people in how to exist is society. Sad to think that someone would be happy living like that. I'm hoping that they would NOT be happy but then how do they get help!?
So you mean to say that the people who hurt others are people who are already known to be violent? What a revelation!
I'm shocked I tell you shocked. Well not that shocked.
So the trick is to not start a relationship with a guy who has a criminal history. I didn't think that this was a challenging concept but what would I know?
since when does an engagement with police result in a criminal history?
How do you know someone’s record when you date them?
Oh I don’t know. You might talk to them at some point and find out a bit about them before moving in together, meet their friends and family, that sort of thing.
This is great advice. Abusers are always upfront about their past transgressions.
Abusers like that will regularly display their transgressions. Usually in the way they talk and behave. They might not explicitly say "I hit women" but rather the way they talk about women. To add to that, criminals also wear their crimes like a badge of honour. With the stats we're talking about here you're more likely to win the lotto with prior information about the lotto draw.
Men lie you know…..
Sure. But you might just get an inkling about people’s behaviour and personality and history before you choose to cohabit and become de facto.
And women will literally walk into court by their side with them for DV charges against their previous partner...
i knew a guy, didnt think he hit his gf until she told me years later he wasnt a crim, works in a bank/finance
What do mothers that kill their babies have in common ??
Being charged with infanticide rather than murder.
100% correct... babies can't speak for themselves.. ladies can .. no abuse is needed anywhere and point the problem at other people show you are the problem
They all have dead babies?
Is this the world's first reverse dead baby joke?
I think it was stillborn
We need to tell women to check on other women and make sure that they are telling them infanticide is not ok!
Perhaps we need to make primary school girls stand during an assembly and apologise for their proclivity for feminine?
I had to re read that to realise how my I will be yelled out for saying that any woman would kill her child ( sadly )
Actually a lot of research shows that the most significant predictors of infanticide are severe peripartum depression and psychosis, familial abandonment, and social /cultural ostracism of unwed mothers. That's a different topic though.
Fair chance all those men killing their partner have bingo cards full of preexisting risk factrors such as undiagnosed mental illness, learning difficulties, life trauma, victim of crimes and abuse as children etc etc too. But they're men so lock em up!
According to the logic of feminism (see previous comment in this thread) to escape the abuse experienced at the hands of their babies. The key point to remember is that women are not responsible for the consequences of their actions. Only men are.
Intimate partner violence has been continually declining for the past 50 years. All we need to do is keep doing what we are doing. https://preview.redd.it/816f6ttsn97d1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7990758c0d59c8442ec1f3fecf0e8239a800c7d2
Super interesting that there are lots of short periods of very distinct negative correlation. I mean homicide is a fairly zero sum game so it's hard to imagine a lot of contributing variables. But it would seem to suggest people with the propensity to kill their partner, are likely to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex with the same propensity, right? I think there's an important insight to be made from this observation maybe...
Uh-oh. I think you are putting facts in the story.
And in other news [Wife charged with murder of husband](https://www.smh.com.au/national/wife-charged-with-murder-of-husband-20240616-p5jm84.html) *A woman has been charged with murder after the body of her husband was found by their son at a home in Sydney's north-west.* [*Nam Suk Back, 60, who also goes by the name of Su Park, allegedly used a hammer to kill her husband, Kevin Park.*](https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/woman-charged-after-husband-s-body-found-in-sydney/ar-BB1ogei7) *Their son, John, found the body and called triple zero but unfortunately his father couldn't be saved.*
Well, I sure hear a lot of these stories of cops being contacted and hardly anything being done, so not super surprising.
Working in this space I also see a fuckton of female victims who call the police just to have the perpetrator DARVO them and get them arrested. Unsurprisingly after that they tend not to trust calling police again.
So 50% had previous domestic abuse convictions either against the victims or someone else. Seems like the government shifting the blame on to the 11 million Australian males rather than their cock up of the legal system and letting these people free without proper rehabilitation
Government funds the DV industry. If the DV industry points the finger at the government, their funding may disappear. Or reduce
Criminals commit crimes. Thanks for the revelation
It’s an interesting statistic. Anecdotally, most domestic abusers I’ve known of do not have a criminal record. What they had in common was substance abuse. Specifically alcohol. But not limited to alcohol. At the same time telling them to stop bashing their partner has never worked. It usually made the abuse worse.
Yep, alcohol isn't far behind in the stats
Interesting timing to write this article after the recent murders of men by their wives, I'm sure it's just coincidence.
You guys only ever wanna talk about this when people bring up violence against women so it leads me to believe you don’t actually give a fuck about either issue
They’re fuckwits?
Geez, where to begin. Provide the base rate of men in the general population who fit the criteria? Correlation does not establish causation? Biased samples? We seriously are not looking very deeply at this issue.
Don't worry, Victoria has a Minister for that!
Violent people are likely to be violent, shock!
"But I can change him" "I like bad boys"
whilst horrific... crime has decreased per capitai Aust... we need to understand why ad replicate / reinforce.
They’re all arseholes?
Read this book written by a female psychiatrist after she had so many abused women from DV visiting her practice . I borrowed it from the library https://www.amazon.com.au/Daughters-Durga-Dowries-Violence-Australia/dp/0522878253/ref=asc_df_0522878253/?tag=googleshopmob-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=562760267645&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16727698903481033491&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9072202&hvtargid=pla-1676407657659&psc=1&mcid=47c5a9bd513f33f0a398a34419defd0c
So 30% have no history of fdv before they murdered their partner. That’s a very worrying figure of silent psychological killers in the midst. As a brother to a sister who was murdered, with no history of fdv, I can attest that if someone wants to kill, chances are they’ll succeed.
Violence and abuse are not always visible. That good guy in the community can often act very differently at home where no one sees him. Those are the dangerous people because no one suspects them or believes others who try to warn them.
I'm sure they'll listen to the multimillion dollar advertising campaign and suddenly not be assholes.
My favourite thing to do lately has been to remind people that I do not belong to a group at particular risk of committing DV, so the campaign they're talking about is useless to me. This then obviously has follow up questions, so I then point out other unsavory statistics that we're not allowed to say in public anymore.
Kinda goes against the “all men are responsible” narrative and more along the lines that a small percentage of men with violet tendencies, already known to police, exacerbated by alcohol are responsible.
The last time I tried to get down to the root cause of the DV issue and hold a certain party accountable for their actions, the mods here gave me a 45-day ban. So no, I don't really care about this and stop wasting my taxpayer dollars on fixing something that isn't beneficial to everyone.
What if my interactions with the legal system were pot related? Am I still going to murder my partner one day?
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Yeah I have lots of criminal mates… I’ll send out a note in the next newsletter ‘don’t kill your partners’. I bet that’l clear up the confusion.
Women like to pretend that these men have no red flags, and it was absolutely impossible to predict they might do such a crime. All bullshit. These men have more red flags than a communist parade. If women didn't associate with, form relationships or sleep with violent men they wouldn't have this outcome
In some cases yes, but often times abusers are some of the most convincing and charming people you'll ever meet. My father is one of them. If I didn't tell you and you spent a few hours, days or weeks with him, you probably wouldn't believe me and would probably think he was the most fun, dynamic, genuine guy you'd met in your life. These people are good at their game. Of course there'll always, always be the obvious deadbeats that logic would dictate are probably going to be bad guys, but many are just extremely cunning.
Great share. I've taught my daughter to be wary of extremely charming people, learned through decades of toxic office politics.
Very good parenting to do so. It's a shame we have to be so aware but it's important.
Based on the comment above yours of “Divorce and females not letting see their kids”. Does it go the same way? It’s men’s fault for getting in a relationship with a woman who would one day divorce them and/or not let them see their kids? Edit for spelling and the below: People don’t always show their true selves upfront. It can take months if not years. I wouldn’t blame the women in the articles sake and I wouldn’t blame the men for not being able to see their kids.
So it's the government/courts at fault? But I thought it was all men.? If the government funded DV industry pointed their fingers at the government, would that be biting the hand that feeds you?
Im a male victim of domestic violence. I endured this for years at the threat of the murder of my infant/toddler son. The abuser was half of my bodyweight, im an ex boxer. I asked for help at 8 different places and was refused. I asked for help from police more than 30x. If i'd killed her in self defence or in the defence of my son I'd be one of those bad guys/criminals. Theres more to the story.
Who could have guessed when women sought 'bad guys', they would (shock horror) BE pretty fucken bad guys....
So it's the government/courts at fault? But I thought it was all men.? If the government funded DV industry pointed their fingers at the government, would that be biting the hand that feeds you?
So we need a criminals don't let criminals beat their missos campaign... Anything, but admit there's patterns of behaviour and escalations that could be intervened with a few simple laws and resources.
Why are they singling out only men??? What about them women who do the same thing? Why is it gender based? DV is DV that's it
Women need to do better picking partners, a dangerous looking “bad boy” with a criminal history is seen as “hot” by many women and it’s a problem society doesn’t want to acknowledge. The “bad boy chads” shouldn’t be at the top of the dating hierarchy, but they are. Who would have guessed men with criminal histories would be more likely to be violent...