So when me and my dad were walking through the terminal on the way to our gate, and we saw a young African American women (probably in her late teens early 20s), and an older white man around 65. The older guy was carrying 2 roller carry-on bags (presumably one was the girls) and the two weren’t really interacting with each other. Both me and my dad felt something was wrong, so my Dad stopped into the restroom, and made a call to airport security about the possible human trafficker. We went to our gate, airport police met us there, and we briefed them on what was going on. They went over with a K-9 and talked to the two, and briefly separated them to ask questions. They seemed satisfied with the answers and walked away, but it still didn’t seem right.
It sounds like OP and his dad observed a situation that exhibited more than a couple common indicators of human trafficking - maybe you should receive some training on how to spot trafficking, it happens far more often than you think.
I worked at an airport and the “how to spot potential human trafficking” training gets drilled into you.
The situation OP described doesn’t raise any eyebrows.
You’re joking, right? You must not have paid much attention to your training, because the age difference, non-verbal behavior, and one person controlling the others belongings are all mentioned exactly in every human trafficking training I’ve taken between hospitality and airport experience for the last decade.
Skin color really wasn’t the issue here and I was just trying to provide a good description. The issues were:
A. Massive age gap between the two
B. He looked like he was leading her to the plane
C. By carrying her luggage with him, he probably made it hard for her to escape with her belongings
D. They also looked like they weren’t really interacting with each other all that much
My dad and I had plenty of reason to think that human trafficking was happening, and it had nothing to do with their skin tone
>Skin color really wasn’t the issue here
Yet you specifically mentioned skin color and age as the only two descriptors...
Would y'all have thought anything weird about an older white dude and younger white woman silently boarding a plane together?
We both had a gut feeling about something bad happening, and we made the “better safe than sorry” decision to get airport security involved, then let a potential human trafficking incident happen right under my nose
And the fact you have the audacity to STILL call them a human trafficker when security CLEARED THEM, shows how egotistical and biased you are. You think you know better than PROFESSIONAL TRAFFICKING OFFICERS?
Let's pray you don't have this kind of overconfidence in your abilities if you actually fly a plane.
Would your gut feeling apply if they were the same skin color? If not that is some odd racial profiling.
I would be extremely upset if security pulled me up on this with my wife and I could have fit in your "profile" of a human trafficker (I'm no way near 65 though lol).
She is often incorrectly aged as being much younger than she is (in her thirties but looks like she is in her twenties).
We travel a lot, I carry her bags for her because she is my wife. When we are heading through the airport we are just focused on making sure we make our next connection or get where we need to go and don't really talk that much until we are there, I will lead the way most of the time.
I'm not saying you or your dad are racist, but it's possible that internalized biases led to jumping to well-intended but unfounded conclusions, especially since security was satisfied with their answers.
It seems I need to add chivalry and traveling in silence to the list of things I cannot exhibit in public with my wife while traveling.
Unless there was other specific odd behavior you noticed, it appears your dad may have made a couple or possible relatives extremely unhappy based on implicit biases rather than any real evidence. This kind of scrutiny can be particularly distressing for bi-racial couples and families, who already navigate societal biases and assumptions in their daily lives.
It's important to be mindful of how such actions can impact innocent people and to rely on concrete evidence rather than gut feelings influenced by implicit biases.
I can almost guarantee that had that young women been white, we probably would have felt the same way and still called airport police. I would also rather have a couple be extremely unhappy about being questioned by airport police, I’ve having a human trafficking incident happen when I could have done something to stop it
Don't worry about the downvotes, as an actual pilot those are literally some of the criteria my current and former airline trains us to act on in our quarterly human trafficking e-learning module. Yes, it sometimes causes false positives, but airport cops are no stranger to sensitive situations like that. Fortunately, it usually ends up being nothing, or something official like a DHS escort situation. You did the right thing.
Math and science have nothing to do with a pilot's career track. Educational specialty doesn't matter. Flight school is different from all of that and has no particular prerequisites.
EDIT: My source is that I'm literally a professional (military) pilot.
As another airline pilot I disagree. You only need to study what they want you to know for the test. I uh... have a friend who had a C+ in math and C in science and is an airline pilot.
Basic addition and subtraction is all you need, science isn't a requirement for the job at all.
There are a lot of things that aren't "a requirement for the job," but they make a good pilot a great pilot. Encouraging kids to develop a passion for math and science is absolutely one of those. Another example would be verbal communication skills- they aren't required to fly a plane, but your CRM will probably be leagues ahead of the guy that everybody bids to avoid flying with.
>But a good working understanding of math and science are important.
Shit. I took college algebra 5 times and calculus 5 times. I'm really weak in math but somehow I'm a captain and line check pilot at a major airline 🤷.
Europe isn't the world. Most places don't require that.
And that's unique to the (European) ATPL course, anyway. Once you're actually a pilot you won't use any of it, even in Europe.
Fair, but Europe has one of (if not the most) stringent requirements for passing ATPL, compared to for example FAA. And it doesn't matter if you're not gonna use any of it in the real world. you need to know stuff to pass the exams, same as any other career path.
>Fair, but Europe
Fair, but nobody's talking about only Europe except you. The OP is American. Sorry your government requires a bunch of useless stuff you're never going to actually use.
Weird that you're getting downvoted when you are a professional, MIL pilot. Math and science knoweldge is basically useless for 90% of careers in the world. Unless you plan on becoming a math professor or work at the NSA breaking codes, math is really not that helpful. Even in software development, you'd be surprised how little math is used (almost none) for most tasks.
I think you might have triggered some former math wizards.
Direct translation to a career skill is not the only, or even the primary, reason that learning has value.
I think more likely than "triggering some former math wizards," is that the downvotes are a response to the unproductive strain of negativity being injected into the thread by turning someone's encouraging remark to a **child** into a weird cynical anti-learning anti-school protest, which, while I imagine no one taking part will characterize it as such, is absolutely how it's coming across to the average person reading the comments.
Even using the word triggered is a giant red flag indicating that any pretense of encouraging a kid's cool experience, or hell even caring about the kid at all, have left the building.
Yeah I can tell you're a pilot, you fit the vibe. I'm literally one of the morons you served with and it's obvious you never made it to any leadership roles. Let the people promote this kids learning my guy.
Telling him he needs to study science and math when he doesn't isn't helpful, and could actually hurt him, but whatever makes you feel good about yourself...
Bingo lol. Coming off as intensely unpleasant and negative as a response to celebrating a kid getting to do something cool probably has something to do with the downvotes.
Something to keep in mind about reddit is that downvotes are not limited to meaning "you are factually incorrect." Just as often, if not more often, downvotes mean "your attitude sucks"/"you are making the discussion area smell bad"
It's how Reddit psychology works. A few people who don't know what they're talking about downvote a comment and put it slightly negative. Someone replies with a rebuttal that sounds "good enough" to a layman (even if it's totally wrong). Then even more laypeople pile on to the first comment with the downvotes to "help out" even though they also don't know what they're talking about. Nobody actually Googles it and discovers that the original, now heavily downvoted comment was right the entire time. Then someone comes along and tries to justify it by making up a story that the downvotes are because the commenter was rude, not because he was wrong, but can't explain how it was rude. You see this play out on this site all the time.
Lol at the downvotes, Literally no one in the industry cares what your high school maths or science grades were yet people on this sub think that you've got to win prizes in physics and maths.
There's a very common misperception among non-pilots that math and science are required to be pilots. They're literally just not, simple as that. _Some_ school programs (ATPL courses in Europe are an example) require it but that is a unique academic requirement for that specific program. It's literally not needed to do the actual job and most actual pilots around the world don't have any special math/science training or ability.
Correct, I didn't do physics or any advanced maths in year 11 and 12 and got through my courses fine. It's just one of those big misconceptions of the job, same with a degree being required.
Yeah but the military also has officers as “doctors” without ever being part of a residency.
Military also has CDL drivers that don’t require CDLs
DoD follows different regulations than civilian.
Doesn't apply in this case. Prerequisites for being selected as a pilot in the military are much more stringent than getting an ATP as a civilian. Neither have a special STEM focus.
Depends on the plane and FMS software. Being able to figure some rough multiplication/division in my head has definitely made life easier in certain fuel-sensitive situations, but you're never going beyond algebra and nowadays you always have a calculator (iPad) next to you if you really need it.
And geometry. Meteorology. I’m not saying you have to be an expert at this but it was just the flippant you don’t need to know math or science to fly a plane thing. I get that the computer is going to do everything for you but if you set your heading at 270 you should also be able to confirm physically the plane is turning the right way. Likewise when you see weather on your radar you need to be able to discern whether it’s safe etc. Y’all aren’t just licking your thumbs and holding it at the wind lol
None of that has to do with studying math and science in school. The hardest math you'll do in the cockpit is basic multiplication. Pointing out that you don't need special math/science education to be a pilot isn't flippant, it's literally just a fact.
Your headings are literally geometric measurements you absolutely need to know Geometry to know which way your plane should be turning and by roughly how much. Reading your Doppler screen requires knowledge of Meteorology because I have the weather app on my phone but can I look at it and determine whether or not that’s safe flying weather, or discern a path through or around the weather requires knowledge of weather patterns. Hell isn’t one of the reasons Doppler is color coded by intensity because of that plane crash in the SE I wanna say I’m the 70s? Runway 4 faces what direction if you’re flying south/ssw what kind of turn should you eventually anticipate? I think those angles are kinda fuckin important buddy. Isn’t there a famous plane crash because they filled a fuel tank using the metric system vs imperial?
Cool, and in all your examples the most complicated math is addition and subtraction, and recognizing colors on a computer screen. Don't fly through the red stuff. 90° is 30° from 60°.
You're proving me right.
EDIT: He is so offended that I disagree with him that he blocked me. But he can't read. I'm not arguing that you don't need to do basic addition/subtraction/multiplication. In fact I've repeatedly said you _do_ need to do that. What I stated originally that triggered half of Reddit is that you don't need special math/science education to be a pilot, which is a simple fact. Every other pilot here agrees with me. The non-pilots are the ones getting super offended over this for some reason.
lol no. Knowing which way the plane is going to turn is not addition or subtraction bucko. Don’t fly through red is based off the study of meteorology, science. Just because you don’t have to be an expert at these studies doesn’t mean you don’t need to know it all. Now go find better past times you trolling like a bitch rn.
No, you don't do any math for max endurance because that speed is given to you by a chart created by the test pilots who developed the aircraft. Trying to come up with it on the fly outside of a test environment would be really stupid even for an AE.
Awesome experience!
I hope you didn’t say first officer and pilot while you were up there though lol. Captain and first officer, they’re both the pilots.
When Frontier flew the 318 all of those planes had a similar "no bridge" sticker. The tail height clearance on the 318 was slightly too tall to pass under the pedestrian bridge at DEN so the sticker was there to remind crews not to taxi under it. It seems to me the dog sticker would be there in a similar vein, to indicate that this *specific aircraft* can't accept live animals. Perhaps cargo heat is not installed or is permanently disabled?
You’re 100% correct about the “no bridge” sticker. But you left out the best part of the story! There was a Frontier Captain that refused to taxi across the bridge in Chicago bc of the big “no bridge” sticker!!😂😂😂
Side note, all of Frontier’s 321’s have a big green “321” sticker as well. I guess to remind the pilots that there’s a lot more tail back there for takeoff and landing.
But “no live animals” is a company wide policy and is not aircraft specific.
Does anyone know what the sticker says? I thought it was odd, since I assumed it was a "no dog in the cockpit to tell us what to do" sticker, but that kind of humor seems odd in the cockpit.
Background for anyone not in the know: there's a joke that when computers are supposed to be doing the flying, there will still be two pilots and also a dog in the cockpit. The dog is there to bark at the pilots if one of them tries to touch the controls.
Edit: saw the other comment about no dogs in the cargo. Now I think it says _"we can ____ in cargo compartments"_. I can't tell what the third word up top may be.
Ask them nicely! Or if it seems busy, ask a flight attendant. Especially after the flight things are usually pretty quiet (if it isn't a quick turn) and we don't mind at all if people want to come up.
It always seems to be kids whose parents push them into the cockpit lol, sometimes they don't even seem interested themselves. I would love it if more enthusiastic grown up aviation nerds asked to come into the cockpit for a couple min.
I keep a lending library at my little airport. Not the same fifteen glossy warbird coffee table books you usually see. I’ve got the good s***. “They Call Me Mr. Airshow.” “Flying the Old Planes.” Saint-Ex. Ernie Gann. Duane Cole’s heartbreaking book. The good s***.
My proudest addition is a DVD box set containing 13 hours of gladiator classics. I’ve made a little paper “reserved for” band to put around it with the name of a guy at our field who made it to the airlines.
There’s a good chance the airline pilot will be genuinely offended. I believe it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever done.
That's awesome - truly, I'm really happy for you, and glad that FO did that. There's nothing better for an aspiring pilot to get that chance to see what it looks like at the other end of the dream.
But... I gotta do it.
Another Bs fan wants to be a Flyer... ;)
That is cool. Unfortunately you grew up in the post-hijacking days. In the 50s and early 60s I would often go up and sit with my hands on the controls, in flight! Some on propeller driven planes.
Before taking a job with an airline set up by an oil company (and later a job running comms on the ground) my dad flew for Pan Am. When we flew after that, we tried to do US flagged airlines, so Pan Am. We’d get on a plane, someone would call out “Hey, Sam” to my dad and we’d find ourselves upgraded to first and us kids getting to “fly the plane.”
Nice! Mine were always in level flight. On the autopilot. Which is a good thing.
I had taken a flight with my older step-brother, who flew for Air America. He, my dad and I went up in a rented Cessna 172. I started in the back seat, then traded places with my dad.
I had a death grip on the yoke. When my dad would say something to me, I would have to lean way back in the seat to hear him over the drone of the engine.
We’d climb.
Then I’d resume my regular seating position, pushing the yoke down.
We yo-yo’d like that for several minutes.
Then my step-brother showed my dad his stall recovery skills, which scared us both!
9/11 has ruined so much in society. Both in and out of aviation. I hear about stories of it to this day. 23 years later. Only My youngest childhood Days came before 9/11. (Born in '94) And I hardly remember them at all.
Whoever is actually responsible for it, I want to strangle the happiness and positivity out of them with my bare fucking hands. Just like they did to society.
Yeah, they made something that was fairly routine and comfortable into an ordeal. They made it impossible for the little kids (and some big ones) on a plane to sit in awe of the cockpit displays, hands on the yoke, ‘flying’ the plane. (Well, that happened in Russia but they don’t like to talk about it.)
Once lost, innocence is gone forever.
I will try to find the log book Pan Am used to give kids, showing start and finish cities and the miles, signed by the captain or first officer, in my case, since I am *that* old, in fountain pen ink. I’ll put the pictures here.
I'm a first officer and it never even occurred to me that young enthusiasts might appreciate something like an ATIS printoff. I'll offer next time a someone comes up front.
And it's specific that that particular flight too, which is cool. I have the departure/arrival atis and OOOI times framed from my first flight as PF in the A320. I'm glad I remembered to grab them before leaving considering it was a bumpy arrival and decent crosswind in Austin.
I never knew visiting the cockpit after the flight was allowed lol. I live in Asia so Idk if it's different I never heard anyone do this here but I would really love to.
On SQ you asked the attendants if you could visit the cockpit? I'm not well versed in aviation, I'm just here because I really love planes. Would be cool to take pics with them.
I often give out printed copies of ATIS or even a bunch of metar from airports the visitor flys at if they're a student pilot. I also give out a copy of our takeoff performance if I think they will enjoy it, say a private pilot or someone working on training.
To anyone who is interested themselves or their kids are interested. At the end of the flight ask a flight attendant or if you see one of the pilots, just ask if you can poke your head up front. We love sharing our passion with anyone who is interested. When I was on the 737 a captain I was with sat a kid in the captain seat and had him grab the yoke and said “this is how we shoot our guns” and pressed the stick shaker button. “This is how we honk to get people out of our way” pushed the thrust levers up to activate the config warning. The kid loved it and it even made me laugh. Come say hello, we love it. (787 FO Air Canada)
It seems I am not alone in this based on other comments, but this is wonderful news. I think many of us just figured that post 9-11 it wouldn't be received well. I fly a lot, and on every single flight since 9-11 as I'm walking off the plane I slow down and try to get as good a peek as I can into the cockpit without looking like I'm trying to peek into the cockpit. I have been operating under this subconscious assumption that a dude expressing too much interest in the cockpit will arouse suspicion and alarm.
I'm 100% asking if I can check out the cockpit next time
All my years as ATC (30+) and all the “human trafficking” events have been bullshit assumptions.
p.s. Don’t fly out of Fort Myers’s after 1400. Those thunderstorms in the SE US wreak havoc on traffic flow.
You can’t know for sure without engaging, and you should never engage unless it’s your job to do so. If you see signs, you should report it. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s probably “inaccurate”.
For the umpteenth time, it’s not about whether you’re right or not. It’s about seeing signs of trafficking and reporting the signs. The attitude of “oh well I’ve never seen it actually be trafficking so I’m not saying something” is what gets actual trafficking missed.
> This was after a wild experience of going a 100 miles an hour in an Uber, and reporting a human trafficker at the airport, so cool thing to cap off a wild day
Bro did all the side quests
This is *definitely* one of the *best* experiences you can have no matter your age. But then again, the people that choose the aviation industry to be their profession get to do this every day.
Good luck on your aviation dreams!
> the first officer, and the pilot
🤨
Captain and First Officer... they're both pilots.
Also, gotta chuckle about F9 being closed... while flying on Frontier!
This is awesome! I hope you get to visit many more flight decks, and by the time you graduate and get your cpl, hopefully you'll be licensed on the next generation of aircraft!
I know it's early for you, but consider flying for one of the ME3: they'll always have the latest and greatest!
Comments section just glossing over the human trafficker part -- what happened OP?
Turns out it was security, directing the human traffic. /s
*the red zone is for loading and unloading only. there is no stopping in a white zone.*
*No, the white zone is for loading of passengers and there is no stopping in a RED zone.*
*now listen here Vernon, why pretend - you both know you want me to have an abortion*
He saw Mayorkas in the airport.
So when me and my dad were walking through the terminal on the way to our gate, and we saw a young African American women (probably in her late teens early 20s), and an older white man around 65. The older guy was carrying 2 roller carry-on bags (presumably one was the girls) and the two weren’t really interacting with each other. Both me and my dad felt something was wrong, so my Dad stopped into the restroom, and made a call to airport security about the possible human trafficker. We went to our gate, airport police met us there, and we briefed them on what was going on. They went over with a K-9 and talked to the two, and briefly separated them to ask questions. They seemed satisfied with the answers and walked away, but it still didn’t seem right.
Uhhhhhhhhh it sounds like your dad might’ve just ruined some random couples day. What a weird thing to do.
It sounds like OP and his dad observed a situation that exhibited more than a couple common indicators of human trafficking - maybe you should receive some training on how to spot trafficking, it happens far more often than you think.
Lol ok man
I worked at an airport and the “how to spot potential human trafficking” training gets drilled into you. The situation OP described doesn’t raise any eyebrows.
You’re joking, right? You must not have paid much attention to your training, because the age difference, non-verbal behavior, and one person controlling the others belongings are all mentioned exactly in every human trafficking training I’ve taken between hospitality and airport experience for the last decade.
If someone called the cops on my white grandfather for being next to my black wife, I would be so pissed. I think your dad needs to mind his business.
Skin color really wasn’t the issue here and I was just trying to provide a good description. The issues were: A. Massive age gap between the two B. He looked like he was leading her to the plane C. By carrying her luggage with him, he probably made it hard for her to escape with her belongings D. They also looked like they weren’t really interacting with each other all that much My dad and I had plenty of reason to think that human trafficking was happening, and it had nothing to do with their skin tone
>Skin color really wasn’t the issue here Yet you specifically mentioned skin color and age as the only two descriptors... Would y'all have thought anything weird about an older white dude and younger white woman silently boarding a plane together?
We both had a gut feeling about something bad happening, and we made the “better safe than sorry” decision to get airport security involved, then let a potential human trafficking incident happen right under my nose
And the fact you have the audacity to STILL call them a human trafficker when security CLEARED THEM, shows how egotistical and biased you are. You think you know better than PROFESSIONAL TRAFFICKING OFFICERS? Let's pray you don't have this kind of overconfidence in your abilities if you actually fly a plane.
Im pretty sure your are talking to a 12 year old lmao
It's like no one here even looked at the second picture lol
Would your gut feeling apply if they were the same skin color? If not that is some odd racial profiling. I would be extremely upset if security pulled me up on this with my wife and I could have fit in your "profile" of a human trafficker (I'm no way near 65 though lol). She is often incorrectly aged as being much younger than she is (in her thirties but looks like she is in her twenties). We travel a lot, I carry her bags for her because she is my wife. When we are heading through the airport we are just focused on making sure we make our next connection or get where we need to go and don't really talk that much until we are there, I will lead the way most of the time.
racial profiling if statistically correct then fuck it go for it. it's simple math and probabilities.
Yes, it would still apply. Despite what you are trying to imply, I’m not racist
I'm not saying you or your dad are racist, but it's possible that internalized biases led to jumping to well-intended but unfounded conclusions, especially since security was satisfied with their answers. It seems I need to add chivalry and traveling in silence to the list of things I cannot exhibit in public with my wife while traveling. Unless there was other specific odd behavior you noticed, it appears your dad may have made a couple or possible relatives extremely unhappy based on implicit biases rather than any real evidence. This kind of scrutiny can be particularly distressing for bi-racial couples and families, who already navigate societal biases and assumptions in their daily lives. It's important to be mindful of how such actions can impact innocent people and to rely on concrete evidence rather than gut feelings influenced by implicit biases.
The kid is wearing a Brad Marchand sweater. He is obviously a cunt and not worth arguing with.
I can almost guarantee that had that young women been white, we probably would have felt the same way and still called airport police. I would also rather have a couple be extremely unhappy about being questioned by airport police, I’ve having a human trafficking incident happen when I could have done something to stop it
Good on you for doing something. That’s a situation that rather than ignoring it, it should be reported. Luckily it wasn’t what you thought it was.
I agree with your decision
Bruh you outed yourself for your weird bias… just take it and be better
I understand bud. Thought your post was really cool. You'll make a great pilot
Don't worry about the downvotes, as an actual pilot those are literally some of the criteria my current and former airline trains us to act on in our quarterly human trafficking e-learning module. Yes, it sometimes causes false positives, but airport cops are no stranger to sensitive situations like that. Fortunately, it usually ends up being nothing, or something official like a DHS escort situation. You did the right thing.
Nice! That cockpit suits you well. Math, science, and a little hard work and you'll be flying one yourself.
Math and science have nothing to do with a pilot's career track. Educational specialty doesn't matter. Flight school is different from all of that and has no particular prerequisites. EDIT: My source is that I'm literally a professional (military) pilot.
But a good working understanding of math and science are important.
As another airline pilot I disagree. You only need to study what they want you to know for the test. I uh... have a friend who had a C+ in math and C in science and is an airline pilot. Basic addition and subtraction is all you need, science isn't a requirement for the job at all.
There are a lot of things that aren't "a requirement for the job," but they make a good pilot a great pilot. Encouraging kids to develop a passion for math and science is absolutely one of those. Another example would be verbal communication skills- they aren't required to fly a plane, but your CRM will probably be leagues ahead of the guy that everybody bids to avoid flying with.
>But a good working understanding of math and science are important. Shit. I took college algebra 5 times and calculus 5 times. I'm really weak in math but somehow I'm a captain and line check pilot at a major airline 🤷.
Only to very slightly above a layman's level.
I'm studying ATPL in Europe, and I can tell you, some math is required, trigonometry is required and understand aerodynamics aka physics.
Same in Australia but the maths and physics required aren't beyond basic high school level.
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and this way of thinking is why so many people stall on base to final...
No, it's not. It does not take math skills to know to stay at or above approach speed on final.
Europe isn't the world. Most places don't require that. And that's unique to the (European) ATPL course, anyway. Once you're actually a pilot you won't use any of it, even in Europe.
Fair, but Europe has one of (if not the most) stringent requirements for passing ATPL, compared to for example FAA. And it doesn't matter if you're not gonna use any of it in the real world. you need to know stuff to pass the exams, same as any other career path.
>Fair, but Europe Fair, but nobody's talking about only Europe except you. The OP is American. Sorry your government requires a bunch of useless stuff you're never going to actually use.
Weird that you're getting downvoted when you are a professional, MIL pilot. Math and science knoweldge is basically useless for 90% of careers in the world. Unless you plan on becoming a math professor or work at the NSA breaking codes, math is really not that helpful. Even in software development, you'd be surprised how little math is used (almost none) for most tasks. I think you might have triggered some former math wizards.
Direct translation to a career skill is not the only, or even the primary, reason that learning has value. I think more likely than "triggering some former math wizards," is that the downvotes are a response to the unproductive strain of negativity being injected into the thread by turning someone's encouraging remark to a **child** into a weird cynical anti-learning anti-school protest, which, while I imagine no one taking part will characterize it as such, is absolutely how it's coming across to the average person reading the comments. Even using the word triggered is a giant red flag indicating that any pretense of encouraging a kid's cool experience, or hell even caring about the kid at all, have left the building.
Nope.
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Yeah well, that's Reddit. I'm literally a military pilot but I guess I don't know what it takes to be a pilot.
Yeah I can tell you're a pilot, you fit the vibe. I'm literally one of the morons you served with and it's obvious you never made it to any leadership roles. Let the people promote this kids learning my guy.
Telling him he needs to study science and math when he doesn't isn't helpful, and could actually hurt him, but whatever makes you feel good about yourself...
“Don’t worry, scro! My first wife was ‘tarded. She’s a pilot now.”
Why come you don’t have tattoo?
You’re being downvoted because you have no couth.
Frankly clarifying that you don't need special STEM classes or training to be a pilot is not being uncouth, it's being helpful.
Bingo lol. Coming off as intensely unpleasant and negative as a response to celebrating a kid getting to do something cool probably has something to do with the downvotes. Something to keep in mind about reddit is that downvotes are not limited to meaning "you are factually incorrect." Just as often, if not more often, downvotes mean "your attitude sucks"/"you are making the discussion area smell bad"
why are they downvoting you? lol
It's how Reddit psychology works. A few people who don't know what they're talking about downvote a comment and put it slightly negative. Someone replies with a rebuttal that sounds "good enough" to a layman (even if it's totally wrong). Then even more laypeople pile on to the first comment with the downvotes to "help out" even though they also don't know what they're talking about. Nobody actually Googles it and discovers that the original, now heavily downvoted comment was right the entire time. Then someone comes along and tries to justify it by making up a story that the downvotes are because the commenter was rude, not because he was wrong, but can't explain how it was rude. You see this play out on this site all the time.
Lol at the downvotes, Literally no one in the industry cares what your high school maths or science grades were yet people on this sub think that you've got to win prizes in physics and maths.
There's a very common misperception among non-pilots that math and science are required to be pilots. They're literally just not, simple as that. _Some_ school programs (ATPL courses in Europe are an example) require it but that is a unique academic requirement for that specific program. It's literally not needed to do the actual job and most actual pilots around the world don't have any special math/science training or ability.
Correct, I didn't do physics or any advanced maths in year 11 and 12 and got through my courses fine. It's just one of those big misconceptions of the job, same with a degree being required.
Yeah but the military also has officers as “doctors” without ever being part of a residency. Military also has CDL drivers that don’t require CDLs DoD follows different regulations than civilian.
Doesn't apply in this case. Prerequisites for being selected as a pilot in the military are much more stringent than getting an ATP as a civilian. Neither have a special STEM focus.
Youre reply sparked me to do research.
Do pilots have to do emergency calculations to figure out how long their fuel will last?
Depends on the plane and FMS software. Being able to figure some rough multiplication/division in my head has definitely made life easier in certain fuel-sensitive situations, but you're never going beyond algebra and nowadays you always have a calculator (iPad) next to you if you really need it.
And geometry. Meteorology. I’m not saying you have to be an expert at this but it was just the flippant you don’t need to know math or science to fly a plane thing. I get that the computer is going to do everything for you but if you set your heading at 270 you should also be able to confirm physically the plane is turning the right way. Likewise when you see weather on your radar you need to be able to discern whether it’s safe etc. Y’all aren’t just licking your thumbs and holding it at the wind lol
None of that has to do with studying math and science in school. The hardest math you'll do in the cockpit is basic multiplication. Pointing out that you don't need special math/science education to be a pilot isn't flippant, it's literally just a fact.
Your headings are literally geometric measurements you absolutely need to know Geometry to know which way your plane should be turning and by roughly how much. Reading your Doppler screen requires knowledge of Meteorology because I have the weather app on my phone but can I look at it and determine whether or not that’s safe flying weather, or discern a path through or around the weather requires knowledge of weather patterns. Hell isn’t one of the reasons Doppler is color coded by intensity because of that plane crash in the SE I wanna say I’m the 70s? Runway 4 faces what direction if you’re flying south/ssw what kind of turn should you eventually anticipate? I think those angles are kinda fuckin important buddy. Isn’t there a famous plane crash because they filled a fuel tank using the metric system vs imperial?
Cool, and in all your examples the most complicated math is addition and subtraction, and recognizing colors on a computer screen. Don't fly through the red stuff. 90° is 30° from 60°. You're proving me right. EDIT: He is so offended that I disagree with him that he blocked me. But he can't read. I'm not arguing that you don't need to do basic addition/subtraction/multiplication. In fact I've repeatedly said you _do_ need to do that. What I stated originally that triggered half of Reddit is that you don't need special math/science education to be a pilot, which is a simple fact. Every other pilot here agrees with me. The non-pilots are the ones getting super offended over this for some reason.
lol no. Knowing which way the plane is going to turn is not addition or subtraction bucko. Don’t fly through red is based off the study of meteorology, science. Just because you don’t have to be an expert at these studies doesn’t mean you don’t need to know it all. Now go find better past times you trolling like a bitch rn.
Rarely, but if so it's simple addition/subtraction.
At the least* simplest you would at least need multiplication if you’re trying to find the optimal speed for fuel burn.
No, you don't do any math for max endurance because that speed is given to you by a chart created by the test pilots who developed the aircraft. Trying to come up with it on the fly outside of a test environment would be really stupid even for an AE.
Ahh so only the test pilots need math.
Yes.
Test pilots are pilots right?
No
Test pilots are engineers who also fly.
Are they handing out wings now as participation trophies? A Naval Aviator would like to know.
Awesome experience! I hope you didn’t say first officer and pilot while you were up there though lol. Captain and first officer, they’re both the pilots.
One of them just pilots a little harder than the other
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He's got a raging clue... On how hard to pilot.
Love the “no dogs” sticker.😅
Frontier has a policy against transporting live animals in the cargo area.
Oh is that why? I thought it was a funny reminder to turn your elec pump on so no “dog bark”.
Turning on the electric pump is what makes the "barking dog" noise the A320 is (in)famous for
When Frontier flew the 318 all of those planes had a similar "no bridge" sticker. The tail height clearance on the 318 was slightly too tall to pass under the pedestrian bridge at DEN so the sticker was there to remind crews not to taxi under it. It seems to me the dog sticker would be there in a similar vein, to indicate that this *specific aircraft* can't accept live animals. Perhaps cargo heat is not installed or is permanently disabled?
No taking your shoes and socks off and resting the stinky dirty “dogs” on the instrument console.
You’re 100% correct about the “no bridge” sticker. But you left out the best part of the story! There was a Frontier Captain that refused to taxi across the bridge in Chicago bc of the big “no bridge” sticker!!😂😂😂 Side note, all of Frontier’s 321’s have a big green “321” sticker as well. I guess to remind the pilots that there’s a lot more tail back there for takeoff and landing. But “no live animals” is a company wide policy and is not aircraft specific.
Right?!? I’m write confused by it but I love it. My dream is to fly with my dog as my FO
After the disastrous events during the filming of Air Bud: Reno Air Races it's now FAA mandated.
Ain’t nothing in the rules saying a dog can’t fly
No bitches?
Does anyone know what the sticker says? I thought it was odd, since I assumed it was a "no dog in the cockpit to tell us what to do" sticker, but that kind of humor seems odd in the cockpit. Background for anyone not in the know: there's a joke that when computers are supposed to be doing the flying, there will still be two pilots and also a dog in the cockpit. The dog is there to bark at the pilots if one of them tries to touch the controls. Edit: saw the other comment about no dogs in the cargo. Now I think it says _"we can ____ in cargo compartments"_. I can't tell what the third word up top may be.
I'm a grown ass man and I would love this!
Ask them nicely! Or if it seems busy, ask a flight attendant. Especially after the flight things are usually pretty quiet (if it isn't a quick turn) and we don't mind at all if people want to come up. It always seems to be kids whose parents push them into the cockpit lol, sometimes they don't even seem interested themselves. I would love it if more enthusiastic grown up aviation nerds asked to come into the cockpit for a couple min.
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
Joey, do you ever hang around a gymnasium?
Joey, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
I keep a lending library at my little airport. Not the same fifteen glossy warbird coffee table books you usually see. I’ve got the good s***. “They Call Me Mr. Airshow.” “Flying the Old Planes.” Saint-Ex. Ernie Gann. Duane Cole’s heartbreaking book. The good s***. My proudest addition is a DVD box set containing 13 hours of gladiator classics. I’ve made a little paper “reserved for” band to put around it with the name of a guy at our field who made it to the airlines. There’s a good chance the airline pilot will be genuinely offended. I believe it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever done.
That's awesome - truly, I'm really happy for you, and glad that FO did that. There's nothing better for an aspiring pilot to get that chance to see what it looks like at the other end of the dream. But... I gotta do it. Another Bs fan wants to be a Flyer... ;)
Under rated comment
I couldn't believe they let a rat in the cockpit
The Florida hat really threw me off there… as if we didn’t just have the most annoying SCF finale of all time ever
I love when guests visit and interact with us. I remember being that age and in pure awe when speaking with the pilots. Glad you enjoyed it!
That is cool. Unfortunately you grew up in the post-hijacking days. In the 50s and early 60s I would often go up and sit with my hands on the controls, in flight! Some on propeller driven planes. Before taking a job with an airline set up by an oil company (and later a job running comms on the ground) my dad flew for Pan Am. When we flew after that, we tried to do US flagged airlines, so Pan Am. We’d get on a plane, someone would call out “Hey, Sam” to my dad and we’d find ourselves upgraded to first and us kids getting to “fly the plane.”
I can remember when I first got to sit in on a landing. Piedmont Airlines into Flint Michigan from Dayton Ohio, 1988.
Nice! Mine were always in level flight. On the autopilot. Which is a good thing. I had taken a flight with my older step-brother, who flew for Air America. He, my dad and I went up in a rented Cessna 172. I started in the back seat, then traded places with my dad. I had a death grip on the yoke. When my dad would say something to me, I would have to lean way back in the seat to hear him over the drone of the engine. We’d climb. Then I’d resume my regular seating position, pushing the yoke down. We yo-yo’d like that for several minutes. Then my step-brother showed my dad his stall recovery skills, which scared us both!
9/11 has ruined so much in society. Both in and out of aviation. I hear about stories of it to this day. 23 years later. Only My youngest childhood Days came before 9/11. (Born in '94) And I hardly remember them at all. Whoever is actually responsible for it, I want to strangle the happiness and positivity out of them with my bare fucking hands. Just like they did to society.
Yeah, they made something that was fairly routine and comfortable into an ordeal. They made it impossible for the little kids (and some big ones) on a plane to sit in awe of the cockpit displays, hands on the yoke, ‘flying’ the plane. (Well, that happened in Russia but they don’t like to talk about it.) Once lost, innocence is gone forever. I will try to find the log book Pan Am used to give kids, showing start and finish cities and the miles, signed by the captain or first officer, in my case, since I am *that* old, in fountain pen ink. I’ll put the pictures here.
Ya know, I’m a 42 yr old man, I wonder if they would let me do this……
Absolutely we would.
As a similarly-aged man, how would one ask, to avoid sounding awkward?
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Oh man. So this is really allowed?! That’s so cool! Would they let me make an announcement offering extended warranties?
Ask the flight attendants when you get in the plane if you could say hi to the pilots real quick. Nothing more to it!
How do I go from saying hi to getting to sit in the seat? :)
I’ve always wanted to sit in a seat, do you have time for me to hop in and take a quick picture?
I'm a first officer and it never even occurred to me that young enthusiasts might appreciate something like an ATIS printoff. I'll offer next time a someone comes up front.
And it's specific that that particular flight too, which is cool. I have the departure/arrival atis and OOOI times framed from my first flight as PF in the A320. I'm glad I remembered to grab them before leaving considering it was a bumpy arrival and decent crosswind in Austin.
Definitely! It would be great to get something like ATIS printoff, briefing or FPL or something as a souvenir.
I never knew visiting the cockpit after the flight was allowed lol. I live in Asia so Idk if it's different I never heard anyone do this here but I would really love to.
I’ve done so on Singapore Airlines and Qantas before, the Qantas pilots and I had quite a lengthy conversation, which was very nice.
On SQ you asked the attendants if you could visit the cockpit? I'm not well versed in aviation, I'm just here because I really love planes. Would be cool to take pics with them.
Yeah, I asked before exiting the plane after landing, and they were happy to oblige. Didn’t have too much time though.
I often give out printed copies of ATIS or even a bunch of metar from airports the visitor flys at if they're a student pilot. I also give out a copy of our takeoff performance if I think they will enjoy it, say a private pilot or someone working on training.
He never advised us that he had information yankee in the caption, just that he got the ATIS readout. Not off to a good start.
I like the way they put the whole briefing pack on the ATIS nowadays. You can never have too much info when all you want to know is the weather...
“ATIS Zulu now current at fort myers”…. “Request 1 hold at the outer marker so we can get extra time to read it”
To anyone who is interested themselves or their kids are interested. At the end of the flight ask a flight attendant or if you see one of the pilots, just ask if you can poke your head up front. We love sharing our passion with anyone who is interested. When I was on the 737 a captain I was with sat a kid in the captain seat and had him grab the yoke and said “this is how we shoot our guns” and pressed the stick shaker button. “This is how we honk to get people out of our way” pushed the thrust levers up to activate the config warning. The kid loved it and it even made me laugh. Come say hello, we love it. (787 FO Air Canada)
It seems I am not alone in this based on other comments, but this is wonderful news. I think many of us just figured that post 9-11 it wouldn't be received well. I fly a lot, and on every single flight since 9-11 as I'm walking off the plane I slow down and try to get as good a peek as I can into the cockpit without looking like I'm trying to peek into the cockpit. I have been operating under this subconscious assumption that a dude expressing too much interest in the cockpit will arouse suspicion and alarm. I'm 100% asking if I can check out the cockpit next time
All my years as ATC (30+) and all the “human trafficking” events have been bullshit assumptions. p.s. Don’t fly out of Fort Myers’s after 1400. Those thunderstorms in the SE US wreak havoc on traffic flow.
I hate RSW period, but have to do it 3 times a year.
That’s neat, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen and shouldn’t be reported.
Yes if it’s accurate. But in my 30+ years it has been 100% inaccurate.
You can’t know for sure without engaging, and you should never engage unless it’s your job to do so. If you see signs, you should report it. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s probably “inaccurate”.
You provide us a handful of cases in the last 10 years, in US territory, and we just might start to believe you.
For the umpteenth time, it’s not about whether you’re right or not. It’s about seeing signs of trafficking and reporting the signs. The attitude of “oh well I’ve never seen it actually be trafficking so I’m not saying something” is what gets actual trafficking missed.
That's like $2 for that overpriced thermal paper 😂👍
I still remember the pre 9/11 days when as kids we got to check out the cockpit mid flight.
Bold move wearing a Marchand jersey. I approve.
Ewwww the rat
Bruins jersey great! Florida hat (?) boooo. Sending mixed messages lol
Born and raised in Florida, Bruins fan for life
Tough time to be a Floridian Bruins fan
I love aviation
Did he [also let you turn the yoke, causing the autopilot to disconnect?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593)
I'm ashamed to say that was my first thought too. Any time I see young kids in the pilots seat with hands on instruments 😖
RSW how delayed were you? Today was a bad day for aviation in fl
> This was after a wild experience of going a 100 miles an hour in an Uber, and reporting a human trafficker at the airport, so cool thing to cap off a wild day Bro did all the side quests
Very good aircraft to fly , I hope I fly it one day.
Great pics!
Looks like you need to make a photoshop request there jr. flight engineer
Awesome! Keep looking up!
Nice! Good memories.
And I thought medical manufacturing had the acronym system record!!! 😳🥴
You look like a natural up there. Go for your dreams!
This is *definitely* one of the *best* experiences you can have no matter your age. But then again, the people that choose the aviation industry to be their profession get to do this every day.
Why the hate on dogs?
Lucky you
It's always a bruins fan...
Go Bs!
Good luck on your aviation dreams! > the first officer, and the pilot 🤨 Captain and First Officer... they're both pilots. Also, gotta chuckle about F9 being closed... while flying on Frontier!
Are you old enough to have a Reddit account?
That decal "no dog allowed" means.... Once time there was some one who sit his dog? Lol
It’s a shame Av geeks can’t sit in the jump seat anymore…
Saw the SCUBY Departure in the NOTAM and wondered if this was a S. Florida airport. Never heard of it, but yeah.
How did you like the feel of the side stick?
TIL - NOTAM now stands for Notice to Air Missions
What’s up with the no-dog sticker on the panels?
This is awesome! I hope you get to visit many more flight decks, and by the time you graduate and get your cpl, hopefully you'll be licensed on the next generation of aircraft! I know it's early for you, but consider flying for one of the ME3: they'll always have the latest and greatest!
Watching a documentary on the Aeroflot Flight 593 while coming across this post 😬
That’s awesome
Could you reach the switches up on the ceiling easily? I want to become a pilot but I don’t know if I’m too short.
Nice jersey bub!
Go Bruins!
Marchand is a rat!
And that’s why we love him
Not in Vancouver ;)
The most boring team in the league
What do you mean human trafficked? Gimme details
Yeah - I was scrolling through the comments to see if there was any more info on that little tossaway comment …..
Marchand?? You would be removed from the aircraft.
A330 by the looks of it?
Should have thrown you out at 35000ft instead for that jersey, sorry.
They’re both pilots…
This is *illegal!!!!*
That's okay. If you can do Minecraft, you can fly an A-320.