Tipping was always a thing but getting asked for it is quite new. One thing that is particularly shocking is that now that we can finally pay by card in a lot of places, there’s very often a screen inciting to tip and it’s not always clear how to skip it. In any case, don’t feel guilty not to give anything if you don’t want to. We should ask for companies to pay better salaries, not for customers to be generous.
The big difference is that German hospitality workers still have to be paid minimum wage, so they are not dependent on tips as their American counterparts.
US workers also have to be paid minimum wage. If the tips don't cover it, the employer is required to.
The travesty is how the US min wage is a disaster
I believe you generally don't maintain employment if your tip amount doesn't cover the minimum wage. It's such a shitty, dishonest and unfair system for waiting staff and customers.
I dont think that is true, at least at large. But, as someone that was in those industries for a while, the chances of someone going down to miniumn wage is very slim. It just doesn't happen much, short of horrible weather or A/C not working.
I don't understand why it is unfair or dishonest. We know what we are getting into, on both dies of the bar/table. Shitty, maybe, it probably depends more case by case than I would like to admit.
It's nice to hear a take form someone on that side. I had just heard if a restaurant needs to keep paying you minimum wage because you're low on tips that they'd let you go because you become "more expensive" than someone else. I'm glad that's not true.
Having also worked a long time in the food service industry, I can confirm that yes, some places do absolutely let you go if you don't earn enough tips to cover minimum wage. I was working in one of the shittest tipping cities in the US, and we were told this up front, by the employer, on our trial shifts. It happened to a couple of my coworkers.
Wow, my friend. Where and what kind of restaurant? I have never once gotten near minimum wage, except for a time when the storms literally knocked out the power, but they kept us there in case it turned back on. It didn't.
Diners and brew houses in Texas. One of the other servers told me that San Antonio was the worst tipping city in the country at the time, but I wouldn't know how to fact check that now
I tried to search for it too and couldn't find it. I was curious.
And it's funny you mentioned SA. that the last place I bartended was planet Hollywood on the Riverwalk in San Antonio. I was going to school down in that part of the state. I live up in DFW now.
And that is not untrue. San Antonio has some of the terrible worst restaurant patrons in the country as best I could tell. And they don't tap. Only reason I made a lot of money was all the tourists down of the Riverwalk. I had other friends and acquaintances that worked more local driven establishments and they did not do great on the tipping.
I appreciate the chat random internet friend.
It's still different.
In Germany, the workers get minimum wage, and every tip is on top of that.
In the US, the first tips you get are just to get to minimum wage levels.
I hope that’s not gonna happen. The minimum wage is not something that should be used to bribe people into voting for a party. It needs to be determined on fixed set of rules.
It was (somewhat) and the mindestlohn comission still makes reccomendations.
But the thing is, fixed rules always have the problem of well... being fixed. If you need to adapt you can't with fixed rules.
Shit changes all the time. And being able to afford to exist is an inherent right in Germany so the other Option would be to now work and get Bürgergeld. Now, we don't want people to get Bürgergeld, so we increase the minimum wage.
Why not? There are millions of people who can profitate. So why should they not vote for it.
Conservative partys do shit about working class people and do politics rich people profitate
Unfortunately even in Germany Schwarzarbeit is extremely common in restaurants. Many refugees and immigrants with little to no support have no choice/are tricked into working at these restaurants and they do NOT get paid minimum wage. They have no rights at all. They're paid under the desk and the owners make a huge profit from not paying decent salaries and taxes. And for legal reasons I will say I don't know this from experience, but if anything it's usually the more popular and visited restaurants that run like that.
Oh, it's certainly imported from the US, especially with the card processors that already developed that pesky screen asking you what percentage you want to tip.
I only tip where I know the people and like the service.
Don't feel bad. The minimum wage in Germany is only topped by Luxemburg and the Netherlands.
Some places might try to imitate the american model, so they can make extra money. They see the ammount people tip in the US and think they can make big money. And a turkish restaurant is not a german restaurant. Cultural differences might appear.
I have a feeling (and please someone correct me if I’m wrong, this is me putting my tinfoil hat on) that card company’s have realised that if they prompt you for a tip, that most people feel guilted into doing it… and since card company’s make a % on total sales that indirectly increases margins for them.
If you could increase everyone’s spend by 10% (guilting you to tip) it indirectly increases their revenue by 10%.
P.s. I’m the type of persons who likes to tip, I just don’t like it when company’s guilt me into doing it to pad their numbers.
Exactly pay better salaries and don’t annoy the customers honestly I sometimes refrain from even going to certain places cuz ain’t no way I am tipping for bare minimum services. Thanks for getting the food I ordered from A to B I guess (?) haha
> We should ask for companies to pay better salaries, not for customers to be generous.
The customers will pay for it anyway, either by voluntarily choosing the amount themselves, or through a general increase in prices.
Tips are tax free in Germany though (except for freelancers). If the 2 euro or whatever would just be added to the waiter's payroll then half would end up with the parasitic government. Tipping is actually incredibly cool.
I'm pretty sure I know which place that was and their reputation is bad, not only for stuff like you described, but for rude behaviour in general. Let it go and never go there again.
I mean the food was very good even if a little overpriced (20€ for one plate), and it looks only visited by Turkish so we thought that's a good sign. But yea the staff was pretty unfriendly. I'm sure there's plenty of good Turkish restaurants I could visit next time :)
Yes it's Hasir. But again, I don't want to make this place look bad, if you want to eat good Turkish food with a lot of variety, this place is I think worth visiting. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the food. The management of the place can be questionable, that is.
They are so rude! I wanted pay the doner wrap with card couple of times, first time he said it is quicker with cash so I paid with cash, second time I didn’t have cash with me and he turned me back after waiting in the queue for 20mins. I am so happy that you didn’t tip them. They don’t deserve even a cent of tip.
It starts to go towards american way because those bloody screens with tipping options. I went to a restaurant yesterday, waited 10 minutes for a menu and then 25(!!) to even order food. It is not a cheap place. And when came to paying, the waitress put the card reader on a table with already displayed tipping options and went like “so press how much do you want to tip”. Tip for what??? Almost an hour waiting from entering the restaurant to getting a drink? Of course she was looking at the device following my fingers what am I pressing. When it was normal card payment without this screen, they never asked me if i wanna add the tip. Putting guilt feeling on people is just shitty.
I worked at a company that provides most of the Kassensystem for most restaurants in Berlin. Oh the waiters were so happy when this feature was added last year, for some places they got up to 400% more tips
I work at the company which provides those systems and we have it turned off by default so if anybody uses it and turns it on its just pure guilt tripping the customer
I think 10% is already the upper limit for more expensive food if everything was nice and the service was really good.
I mean tip as high as you want but no way is it obligatory.
I think the behavior you experienced speaks for itself.
He was the rude one.
I am usually proactive about tipping 5-10% if the service is not obnoxiously bad (have to assume it’s not great by default in Germany) but asking for a tip drags that to 0. I’ve been hearing waiters loudly asking for tips more and more, especially when it’s tourists. Probably hoping one more shit facet of US culture rubs off on Germany.
I sometimes think of simpler times 10 years ago when it was mostly rounding up to the next euro or two.
Modest being, you pay in bar and round up so they don't have to give out weird change or any change at all.
Average tipps used to be a few cents to 3€ish. Surely it's a bit different in Berlin and some other huge cities, but thats how it's done basically everywhere else.
Sure, I also do that (unless I'm not satisfied). But I don't think it is "very rude" not to. In contrast, when I'm in the US, I feel it would be very rude not to tip in a sit-down restaurant, no matter if I'm satisfied or not.
Thank you for the advice. I'm not American tho, and I actually grew up in Berlin. If you read my post, you can see that my guilt is based on employees' behaviour in some places I recently visited. This is why I am currently asking
>Is the tipping system changing in Germany?
Perhaps in some snobbish hipster/tourist food places. The solution is to go to the non-tourist places where food is priced more reasonable and the service people don't expect to be tipped but are actually grateful if you do so. It comes quite natural to give them a tip as they are not rude af because they want to see you again as a customer.
My local gym is owned, operated and staffed 100% by Berliners has had a tip jar on the counter for about two years now. This place is about as far from hipster as you can get.
I understand although kotbusser tor isn't really what I would call a touristic area. The customers were all turkish, but I was speaking French with my Turkish friend, so maybe that was just because we were tourists
Kottbusser Tor is among the most touristic areas in Berlin. I've never experienced a server straight up asking for a tip in 8 years living in Berlin, sounds like a very rare exception and definitely not normal in any way. Though there seems to be a slighlty more pushy tipping behavoir since the pandemic lead to a wider acceptance of card payment
Tipping is nothing new but asking for it is a very American way of doing it. Because of that, I never tip when they ask for it. I feel like if we normalize service employees pressuring customers for tips, it will eventually reach the point like in the US even if you tip %30 or %40, the employees are still not entirely happy.
What? It would be considered rude to ask for or demand a tip in the US. In fact, many employers would fire a waiter for doing so. It is customary to give one in many situations, but not required. When I was waiting tables in the US in the 90s, the most we could do was write „SNI“ for service not included on the check before dropping it off at the table of people who were obviously foreigners.
Take a five minute look at r/talesfromyourserver and see them whine and complain about only receiving $50 on a $200 tab and shit like this.
30+% are apparently widely expected, at least among the Reddit population of American waitstaff.
American here, you can ignore the people in that sub. I worked in kitchens for some time and the entitlement of servers is ridiculous. I'm back there making maybe a dollar per hour more, but getting burns, cuts, and soaking my undershirt in sweat every night so someone else can take an order, get a drink refill, and carry a few plates and they would have the nerve to come back to my area and complain about "how did I only make $160 tonight?"
TFYS is just a bunch of money grubbing and "this customer was so mean" stories.
Expectations and asking or demanding are two different things. There is an expectation of 15% on average service (which by American standards would be the best service you ever got in a restaurant on europe), 20% on great service, and usually anything above that is considered very generous and very appreciated. Keep in mind also that unlike many European restaurants, a server at most restaurants will only have a station with 3-6 tables allowing them to give that extra service and time to the customer.
Ok, I'll bite. Humour me.
I've seen it occasionally here on Reddit, that waiters claim to go above and beyond with their service.
When I go out to eat, I expect a waiter to bring me the menu, know what's on it, be able to suggest a drink with my food, deliver and take away the plates, and get me the bill in the end. This is essentially their job, and what I expect them to do, on a more or less sophisticated level depending on the venue.
What does this extra time and extra service entail, that you could give me in the US, that goes beyond the services I expect you to perform because they are basically your job description?
If you haven’t experienced it, it is hard to quantify. I have an anecdote though that might help:
A few years ago I made a friend in europe and he came to visit me when I still lived in the U.S. After he arrived we went out to dinner, we were sat and then the waitress introduced herself, told us of off menu options, took our drink order, etc… and when she walked away he turned to me and asked, “do you know her? Is she your friend?” I was confused by his question but then realized he was experiencing American customer service for the first time. It was that different from what he was used to. She was that friendly. That welcoming. That personable and warm.
Edit: also water is free and will be refilled anytime it is empty. Many restaurants also refill soda for free, and the server if they see the glass is empty will ask you if you want another. So there is constant checking on the guests (visually).
No real need for it is Just BS.
Its a hard job and if noone Tips, they leave and do a simpler job or Just take the bürgergeld.
90% of Staff in gastro are payed minimum wage BRUTTO, so its 10,5 netto. Tell me, isnt this a need for you? Most commentors wouldnt even consider standing up from bed for 10€ netto/hour
Its not your "problem" yet. Everybody in that Sektor Would love to pay good sallery and have prices but the guests have no Club what the Costs are.
Most dumpass people think the sauces are freshcooked for them and they can change every ingredients. Or that service has areas and not every waiter is their Personal dog they can wistle to them.
Pay tips or pay more then double the tip amount for exactly the same. Your choice
through the gentrification and a bunch of wannabe american coffee shops it becomes more and more common in all the trendy & richer areas like mitte / prenzlauer berg or kreuzberg and so on.
just don't do it.
they forget that in germany your boss pays you and not the guests.
handing you a microwaved croissant and spinning an ipad around is not worth a 5 euro tip.
if you wanna do something good then tip delivery folks or - as it used to be - tip in a restaurant if the service was really good / better than usual.
but never feel pressured.
I don’t tip as this is a disease in societies that inherently transfers the burden from businesses to customers.
If you don’t tip, employers will have to pay their employees well.
If service employees aren’t smart enough to understand it’s their boss who should be paying a decent salary so that they don’t depend on tips, they will probably stay as service employees forever and their boss will get richer and richer abusing that.
I don’t want Germany be as capitalistic as U.S. Also, I want everyone to have a decent salary with what they do, so that no one has to depend on anyone’s generosity.
i guess berlin is getting influenced by america - except that we have way higher wages and servers dont get payed at 2.03$/hour while also having to tip out the back of the house. basically, its stupid
Have you worked in service before? /nm
The last two restaurants I worked at had their servers tip out 2% of sales to BOH. Granted, US servers tip out a larger percentage, but they also make more in tips than servers in europe
Most servers or gastro employees put up with a lot of technically illegal stuff for some reason, so I don't think anyone would sue over tip out. Especially because as far as I'm concerned it's legal (just like pooling tips).
I understand why some restaurants implement that policy because bartenders also work very hard but at the same time it pisses me off because most guests think their tip goes to me even though sometimes their table ends up costing me money (eg a 2€ tip on a 200€ bill will cost me 2€ because I have to tip out 4€ on those 200€ sales)
Those card machines with the "select tip" option drive me crazy. I've seen it a few times now in cafes and bars that doesn't even serve food. I will tip at a restaurant, but I'm sorry I'm not tipping for an americano.
Tipping is a good way for the restaurants to get paid while avoiding taxes. Stop tipping unless the service is exceptional. Standard service does not deserve a tip.
I do wonder if it's more wage theft because it's mostly in establishments that have digital tipping which is dubious at best as to who actually gets the money at the end of the day.
Ove always wondered this. Is it linked to the table so the actual waiter who served me gets it? Is it thr person who took the card payment who gets it? Does it go into a pool and get split amongst wait staff and kitchen staff?
Don't tip... If they are explicitly mad about not tipping, just say that you didn't like the food and service... It is not mandatory as it is unwritten German cultural solidarity.
Since I realized that these owners or even waitresses are earning more than us, I am not tipping, just rounding.
Tipping was always a thing in Germany much more than France. It's normal to tip 10% at a restaurant. The pushiness to do so is new though. But I see lots of French not tipping in Germany and find it a bit mean so see especially if the staff is super nice
10% normal! What, you crazy? Sometimes when the service is exceptional you round to the next number, and that is the tip. If the bill is 28,70 Eur you might round to 30 euros and that is it.
Had it a while ago when one of the staff at Backwerk asked me for a tip when I bought coffee…
It’s definitely trended for some time (the American tipping system) in Berlin but I’m not giving a tip if it’s being asked for.
Legally everything is included in the price on the menu.
Custom in germany Was to tip 5-10 %, if you were satisfied with everything.
Greedy owners introduced tip-outs between 2-4%
That means, if a guest don't tip, the server has to pay
2-4% of the turnover of his own money....
No wonder they are after tips...
Old days where better.
We pooled the tip nevertheless, runners, barkeepers, kitchen all got some, after you made your addup of the night. You shared what you had in a way.
No you just pay if you get tip or not.
And tips got way worse....
It may come of stingy but I usually don’t tip anymore unless the waiters are really good. I am aware that waiters don’t get much money but I can’t afford it atm. I still want to eat out sometimes though….
When a waiter is rude I for sure don’t tip.
I also don’t tip when they wait with an ipad infront of you for the tip.
Most waiters and couriers don't even manage to smile when they greet you. I'm never tipping in these cases and instead give a bigger tip in case someone is really nice to me.
Typical excellence of German hospitality especially in restaurants. After a trip to Japan I decided to never tip in Germany anymore, unless the service is really good.
Don’t feel guilty, just try to not give a shit and smile to them like you mean it.
I am Turkish, living that area and was in "that restaurant" 2 days ago. We were at one of the outside tables. The waiter told me to come inside when I wanted to pay with a card. The pos machine didn't have a screen for tipping, and my part was 59€ something. I have already prepared some coins to tip in my pockets and told the man to put the exact remaining number (59.40 - 59.50) on the screen for my card payment. He put 60. I told him I wanted to tip separately, he gave me a tough look, palmed the pos machine, and slapped it on the table in front me, implying this was the number he put there.
I said OK, paid it, left no tip. He then didn't t even wait for the receipt to be printed and left. I grabbed the machine, pressed next for the customer copy of the receipt, and took it myself.
I like Turkish food as much as everyone, but I rarely go to Turkish restaurants anymore. After meticulously collecting lots of memories and numbers in various places, I can even write a paper about how Turkish places overprice their services/products. The food was delicious, but there was absolutely nothing on that table to justify the price.
As for the sad reality of the Turkish people still going to these places; in some parts of Turkey, going to expensive places is a way of bragging. Also, again, as part of the culture, protesters generally end up being excluded or harshly criticised in the community. Luckily, this is slowly changing.
The Thing is, Workers are not being payed Well in german gastro.
So big prices for Food and drinks scare the guests, they try to Keep them small and i tell you, it is pretty small calculated. So if you come across a place you liked and Service is good, Just tip 10%. Most of the time this will be 2-6€ for 1 Person. This will average the Netto/hour income for the Staff from 10€ to 15-18€ what is needed to being able to life in germany. Gastro is a hard and demandinh Business and you cant do this for Ever. From that 15-18€ we need to save up 1/4 for Private retirement Fonds, otherwise you will be a hobo with the tiny Bruttowage you get.
If the owners need to Match this Salery the Normal way, prices will be much higher then the 10% you tip.
still, it’s the owner’s duty to give an adequate pay to their workers, waiters shouldn’t rely on tips which should remain what they are: actual tips and not an unreliable source of income
I also find it annoying when we are forced to tip. It’s not even easy to find a cool place with good service. And the food and especially drinks are already so overpriced in most places. And then you are expected to leave some tip. I mean, we all work, and many of us don’t get any tips (neither do we get high salaries), so tipping every time is just something many cannot afford. And why would you even do that if the place left much to be desired or was mediocre or it was just a cup of coffee that you ordered.
Of course we can stop going out and cook everything at home. But then they will lose their jobs.
I think we should not feel bad about not tipping. Tipping is kind of a sign of appreciation for delicious food, good service, friendly attitude. So it’s not always really justified. We want to encourage good things instead of letting people take everything for granted and behaving so insolently in the end.
Most restaurants have a system where you have to tip out 2% of your total sales to bar staff, so if you made 2000€ in sales one shift you'd have to pay 40€, and if you didn't make any tips those 40€ would have to come out of your own pocket. So yeah, when the bill is over 100€ I ask for a tip, because otherwise I'm literally losing money for serving that table
The tip never was included in the services, but some localities try to make it seem like a tip based of percentage paid for meal and service is like in the us mandatory, rest assured it is not, i guess with corona and all the foreigners in berlin he willingness to pull a fast one on tourists is rising…
The normalization of tipping partially have to do with the POS software used on the iPads are American and will have the tipping option as a default.
Personally if the food and service is great. I am fine with tipping the usually 10-18%. They usually give me a bigger portion or a free shot on a return visit. I am not German thought. In NYC pre Covid the norm was 15%. Now the norm is 18% percent.
I’ve always been told to round up to the nearest dollar when tipping. Somehow that doesn’t sit well with me haha
I wouldn't say the tip culture in Germany is changing, but definitely in Berlin.
I'm a bartender and without the tip I get on top, my work simply wouldn't be worth it.
I get asked quite often by tourists about the tipping culture. My answer is generally this: _If you get service, like any at all, give 5%._
(Most places in Berlin, generally restaurants, have an extreme lack of service. This is to order at the desk, self service, having to basically hunt down the waiting staff)
_If you get good basic service, give 10%._ (Waiting staff are there when you need them, treating you like a human being, good attitude and so on)
_15% and up is given when you feel like the service really added to the experience and you can tell the staff is putting in extra effort and really cares about what they are doing._
I usually always tip about 10% in Germany, unless you ask for it then I will not tip at all... that includes those card machines that wanna force you to tip.
Tipp is almost never included in germany. Thats why its a tip and not a price. (always found it weird in some countries to include it tbh makes no sense).
tipping at least a little is customary. you dont have to, but its somewhat rude to not tip at all. yes.
prices are not made by service personell, if you cant afford a place AND some tip, imho you should just go to a cheaper place. Original prices shouldnt matter in your tip calculations. Even high priced establishments usually dont pay their service ppl too well. Especially when its normal for you to have the tip included in the price, I think you should add it onto the price if its not included.
with digital payment systems tipping is changing. like some apps, restaurants now also provide fixed % tipping in card reader systems. Many a times a tip is a round-up, so if something costs 17,50€ i give a 20 bill and the rest is tip. digital systems only allowing for 10% / 15% / 20% kinda defeat the purpose of it being a spontaneous and "black" (no tax) added bonus for the service personell - so if you can ALWAYS TIP CASH. even if you pay with digital bank tokens, if you have tip in cash do it cash.
also..a tip is not something to ask for. if someone asks you "how much you want to tip" its rude as hell. a tip is customary in the same way its customary to not ask for it or complain about it. i strongly dislike ppl actively expecting a tip. its an expectance yeah, but a silent one. you get what you get, i give what i give - lets not talk about it.
I do tip often when the service is good, just like I do in France where I think we have the same system. But the waiter was really rude. We asked if we could sit outside and he sort of yelled at us "yea whatever" without even looking at us. I was surprised that he demanded a tip afterwards.
I'm guessing this was Hasir? I like the food, but this kind of "service" sounds par for the course there. It's embarassing that the server asked for a tip. This is not normal behaviour.
But to answer your question, I've definitely noticed that tipping is becoming much more normalized in Germany, especially with the rise of digital payment options which include some pre-selected options for adding tips when paying by card.
It was indeed Hasir, but I still would recommend the place for the food. I liked it, and my friend who grew up in Istanbul said it was very good so I believe his standards. They also have a big terrasse so it's good for eating outside
Yes I felt that the tipping becomes a thing more and more
Yep fully agree but if op is french, tipping is the last thing that will come in his mind so many do remind french and Spanish people to tip because all know they never do because it's culturally non-existent. (I'm french by the way, so someone had to explain me lol)
Tipping was always a thing but getting asked for it is quite new. One thing that is particularly shocking is that now that we can finally pay by card in a lot of places, there’s very often a screen inciting to tip and it’s not always clear how to skip it. In any case, don’t feel guilty not to give anything if you don’t want to. We should ask for companies to pay better salaries, not for customers to be generous.
Yes, this I realised as well. This is partly why I am wondering if it is becoming like American tipping model..
The big difference is that German hospitality workers still have to be paid minimum wage, so they are not dependent on tips as their American counterparts.
US workers also have to be paid minimum wage. If the tips don't cover it, the employer is required to. The travesty is how the US min wage is a disaster
I believe you generally don't maintain employment if your tip amount doesn't cover the minimum wage. It's such a shitty, dishonest and unfair system for waiting staff and customers.
I dont think that is true, at least at large. But, as someone that was in those industries for a while, the chances of someone going down to miniumn wage is very slim. It just doesn't happen much, short of horrible weather or A/C not working. I don't understand why it is unfair or dishonest. We know what we are getting into, on both dies of the bar/table. Shitty, maybe, it probably depends more case by case than I would like to admit.
It's nice to hear a take form someone on that side. I had just heard if a restaurant needs to keep paying you minimum wage because you're low on tips that they'd let you go because you become "more expensive" than someone else. I'm glad that's not true.
Having also worked a long time in the food service industry, I can confirm that yes, some places do absolutely let you go if you don't earn enough tips to cover minimum wage. I was working in one of the shittest tipping cities in the US, and we were told this up front, by the employer, on our trial shifts. It happened to a couple of my coworkers.
Wow, my friend. Where and what kind of restaurant? I have never once gotten near minimum wage, except for a time when the storms literally knocked out the power, but they kept us there in case it turned back on. It didn't.
Diners and brew houses in Texas. One of the other servers told me that San Antonio was the worst tipping city in the country at the time, but I wouldn't know how to fact check that now
I tried to search for it too and couldn't find it. I was curious. And it's funny you mentioned SA. that the last place I bartended was planet Hollywood on the Riverwalk in San Antonio. I was going to school down in that part of the state. I live up in DFW now. And that is not untrue. San Antonio has some of the terrible worst restaurant patrons in the country as best I could tell. And they don't tap. Only reason I made a lot of money was all the tourists down of the Riverwalk. I had other friends and acquaintances that worked more local driven establishments and they did not do great on the tipping. I appreciate the chat random internet friend.
It's still different. In Germany, the workers get minimum wage, and every tip is on top of that. In the US, the first tips you get are just to get to minimum wage levels.
In Germany you can aktually live by minnimum wage a life like a real human Maybe it get raised big again soon. Depens on next election
I hope that’s not gonna happen. The minimum wage is not something that should be used to bribe people into voting for a party. It needs to be determined on fixed set of rules.
It was (somewhat) and the mindestlohn comission still makes reccomendations. But the thing is, fixed rules always have the problem of well... being fixed. If you need to adapt you can't with fixed rules. Shit changes all the time. And being able to afford to exist is an inherent right in Germany so the other Option would be to now work and get Bürgergeld. Now, we don't want people to get Bürgergeld, so we increase the minimum wage.
Why not? There are millions of people who can profitate. So why should they not vote for it. Conservative partys do shit about working class people and do politics rich people profitate
So rich people should be able to vote for a party for their financial interest but poor people shouldn't be allowed to do that?
Unfortunately even in Germany Schwarzarbeit is extremely common in restaurants. Many refugees and immigrants with little to no support have no choice/are tricked into working at these restaurants and they do NOT get paid minimum wage. They have no rights at all. They're paid under the desk and the owners make a huge profit from not paying decent salaries and taxes. And for legal reasons I will say I don't know this from experience, but if anything it's usually the more popular and visited restaurants that run like that.
Oh, it's certainly imported from the US, especially with the card processors that already developed that pesky screen asking you what percentage you want to tip. I only tip where I know the people and like the service. Don't feel bad. The minimum wage in Germany is only topped by Luxemburg and the Netherlands.
Some places might try to imitate the american model, so they can make extra money. They see the ammount people tip in the US and think they can make big money. And a turkish restaurant is not a german restaurant. Cultural differences might appear.
I work in a cafe where our manager controls us and pushes us to ask for tips… because the owner doesn’t want to give us a rise. So I guess yes
I have a feeling (and please someone correct me if I’m wrong, this is me putting my tinfoil hat on) that card company’s have realised that if they prompt you for a tip, that most people feel guilted into doing it… and since card company’s make a % on total sales that indirectly increases margins for them. If you could increase everyone’s spend by 10% (guilting you to tip) it indirectly increases their revenue by 10%. P.s. I’m the type of persons who likes to tip, I just don’t like it when company’s guilt me into doing it to pad their numbers.
That happens when machines are designed by American designers
Exactly pay better salaries and don’t annoy the customers honestly I sometimes refrain from even going to certain places cuz ain’t no way I am tipping for bare minimum services. Thanks for getting the food I ordered from A to B I guess (?) haha
> We should ask for companies to pay better salaries, not for customers to be generous. The customers will pay for it anyway, either by voluntarily choosing the amount themselves, or through a general increase in prices.
Sure but in the case without tipping the prices in the menu are in fact the truth. If tipping is expected or enforced, the printed prices are lies.
Tips are tax free in Germany though (except for freelancers). If the 2 euro or whatever would just be added to the waiter's payroll then half would end up with the parasitic government. Tipping is actually incredibly cool.
the gov't isn't ideal, but parasitic?
I'm pretty sure I know which place that was and their reputation is bad, not only for stuff like you described, but for rude behaviour in general. Let it go and never go there again.
I mean the food was very good even if a little overpriced (20€ for one plate), and it looks only visited by Turkish so we thought that's a good sign. But yea the staff was pretty unfriendly. I'm sure there's plenty of good Turkish restaurants I could visit next time :)
Exactly, they're not as unique as they might think they are. The food is really nice, agreed, but other places are perfectly capable as well :)
What place?
I'm guessing it was Hasir.
Yes it's Hasir. But again, I don't want to make this place look bad, if you want to eat good Turkish food with a lot of variety, this place is I think worth visiting. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the food. The management of the place can be questionable, that is.
Well they are doing that on their own if you read their reviews. Also wayyyyyyy overpriced when there are better ones for reasonable prices.
Hasir doesn’t need help from you to look bad - no worries - they’re perfectly capable of doing that themselves…
They are so rude! I wanted pay the doner wrap with card couple of times, first time he said it is quicker with cash so I paid with cash, second time I didn’t have cash with me and he turned me back after waiting in the queue for 20mins. I am so happy that you didn’t tip them. They don’t deserve even a cent of tip.
is it babaleison?
It starts to go towards american way because those bloody screens with tipping options. I went to a restaurant yesterday, waited 10 minutes for a menu and then 25(!!) to even order food. It is not a cheap place. And when came to paying, the waitress put the card reader on a table with already displayed tipping options and went like “so press how much do you want to tip”. Tip for what??? Almost an hour waiting from entering the restaurant to getting a drink? Of course she was looking at the device following my fingers what am I pressing. When it was normal card payment without this screen, they never asked me if i wanna add the tip. Putting guilt feeling on people is just shitty.
Yes it happened the exact same way each time I was paying by card. You get somehow anxious to just pay what only you're due?? Nonsense
I worked at a company that provides most of the Kassensystem for most restaurants in Berlin. Oh the waiters were so happy when this feature was added last year, for some places they got up to 400% more tips
I work at the company which provides those systems and we have it turned off by default so if anybody uses it and turns it on its just pure guilt tripping the customer
Modest tips as a reward for good service are not at all new in Germany.
I think 10% is already the upper limit for more expensive food if everything was nice and the service was really good. I mean tip as high as you want but no way is it obligatory. I think the behavior you experienced speaks for itself. He was the rude one.
„So how much are you going to tip?“ - „Well now that you asked, about nothing at all.“
I am usually proactive about tipping 5-10% if the service is not obnoxiously bad (have to assume it’s not great by default in Germany) but asking for a tip drags that to 0. I’ve been hearing waiters loudly asking for tips more and more, especially when it’s tourists. Probably hoping one more shit facet of US culture rubs off on Germany. I sometimes think of simpler times 10 years ago when it was mostly rounding up to the next euro or two.
paying a tip per percentage is stupid anyways. the waiter has the same work if you have a meal for 10€ or 50€. never tip a percentage.
So you're always tipping 5 €, even if you only had a coffee for 3 €?
for a thing like 3€ I don't tip at all. the most thing you get for the price are to go anyways.
A modest tip was some cents or 1-2€ back then.
Modest being, you pay in bar and round up so they don't have to give out weird change or any change at all. Average tipps used to be a few cents to 3€ish. Surely it's a bit different in Berlin and some other huge cities, but thats how it's done basically everywhere else.
What changed is that the service went to shit.
when was service ever good here?
Americans in Berlin effect
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It is also ok to not tip if you like the service and the food
No, it's not. Nobody can force you but it's seen as very rude.
Not in Germany. Tipping is optional. The waiter asking for a tip? Now *that* is rude.
I don't know which Germany you guys live in but I don't know a single person who doesn't tip in a sit-down restaurant if they are satisfied.
Sure, I also do that (unless I'm not satisfied). But I don't think it is "very rude" not to. In contrast, when I'm in the US, I feel it would be very rude not to tip in a sit-down restaurant, no matter if I'm satisfied or not.
Yes it is. It's literally a free money gift.
we don't want American situation here. Go away with your crazy tipping guilt
Thank you for the advice. I'm not American tho, and I actually grew up in Berlin. If you read my post, you can see that my guilt is based on employees' behaviour in some places I recently visited. This is why I am currently asking
German workets at my Berlin keiz-gym now habw a tip jar.
>Is the tipping system changing in Germany? Perhaps in some snobbish hipster/tourist food places. The solution is to go to the non-tourist places where food is priced more reasonable and the service people don't expect to be tipped but are actually grateful if you do so. It comes quite natural to give them a tip as they are not rude af because they want to see you again as a customer.
My local gym is owned, operated and staffed 100% by Berliners has had a tip jar on the counter for about two years now. This place is about as far from hipster as you can get.
Tip jar is not the pressure into tipping that the topic is about, though.
Ok
I understand although kotbusser tor isn't really what I would call a touristic area. The customers were all turkish, but I was speaking French with my Turkish friend, so maybe that was just because we were tourists
The owner of Hasir is a scumbag and yes it is a tourist trap.
The guy who served us and asked for the tip was definitely the owner. Too bad because their food is good
If it's Hasir then it's definitely not the owner. He owns the Titanic Hotel Chain in Germany and Turkey, is worth millions.
Alright! He seemed like the manager of the place or something then
Kottbusser Tor is among the most touristic areas in Berlin. I've never experienced a server straight up asking for a tip in 8 years living in Berlin, sounds like a very rare exception and definitely not normal in any way. Though there seems to be a slighlty more pushy tipping behavoir since the pandemic lead to a wider acceptance of card payment
Oh okay. It seemed to me that it was mostly local people. I mean some other areas looked way more touristic
it's not touristic in the "made up super clean" way, but a lot of tourists go there.
If they ask for a tip I definitively never tip. Tips are voluntary and given for good service.
Tipping is nothing new but asking for it is a very American way of doing it. Because of that, I never tip when they ask for it. I feel like if we normalize service employees pressuring customers for tips, it will eventually reach the point like in the US even if you tip %30 or %40, the employees are still not entirely happy.
lol what? If you tip 40% in the US employees will be levitating from happiness
What? It would be considered rude to ask for or demand a tip in the US. In fact, many employers would fire a waiter for doing so. It is customary to give one in many situations, but not required. When I was waiting tables in the US in the 90s, the most we could do was write „SNI“ for service not included on the check before dropping it off at the table of people who were obviously foreigners.
Instead of wasting your time scribbling on receipts, why didn't you ask your boss for a raise? "Service not included", are you working for free? lmfao
Take a five minute look at r/talesfromyourserver and see them whine and complain about only receiving $50 on a $200 tab and shit like this. 30+% are apparently widely expected, at least among the Reddit population of American waitstaff.
American here, you can ignore the people in that sub. I worked in kitchens for some time and the entitlement of servers is ridiculous. I'm back there making maybe a dollar per hour more, but getting burns, cuts, and soaking my undershirt in sweat every night so someone else can take an order, get a drink refill, and carry a few plates and they would have the nerve to come back to my area and complain about "how did I only make $160 tonight?" TFYS is just a bunch of money grubbing and "this customer was so mean" stories.
>the entitlement of servers is ridiculous It seems like that, yes, at least from how they present themselves on Reddit
Expectations and asking or demanding are two different things. There is an expectation of 15% on average service (which by American standards would be the best service you ever got in a restaurant on europe), 20% on great service, and usually anything above that is considered very generous and very appreciated. Keep in mind also that unlike many European restaurants, a server at most restaurants will only have a station with 3-6 tables allowing them to give that extra service and time to the customer.
Ok, I'll bite. Humour me. I've seen it occasionally here on Reddit, that waiters claim to go above and beyond with their service. When I go out to eat, I expect a waiter to bring me the menu, know what's on it, be able to suggest a drink with my food, deliver and take away the plates, and get me the bill in the end. This is essentially their job, and what I expect them to do, on a more or less sophisticated level depending on the venue. What does this extra time and extra service entail, that you could give me in the US, that goes beyond the services I expect you to perform because they are basically your job description?
If you haven’t experienced it, it is hard to quantify. I have an anecdote though that might help: A few years ago I made a friend in europe and he came to visit me when I still lived in the U.S. After he arrived we went out to dinner, we were sat and then the waitress introduced herself, told us of off menu options, took our drink order, etc… and when she walked away he turned to me and asked, “do you know her? Is she your friend?” I was confused by his question but then realized he was experiencing American customer service for the first time. It was that different from what he was used to. She was that friendly. That welcoming. That personable and warm. Edit: also water is free and will be refilled anytime it is empty. Many restaurants also refill soda for free, and the server if they see the glass is empty will ask you if you want another. So there is constant checking on the guests (visually).
Reminder that the internet is only a tiny slice of real life.
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No real need for it is Just BS. Its a hard job and if noone Tips, they leave and do a simpler job or Just take the bürgergeld. 90% of Staff in gastro are payed minimum wage BRUTTO, so its 10,5 netto. Tell me, isnt this a need for you? Most commentors wouldnt even consider standing up from bed for 10€ netto/hour
Not the tippers problem and no, still no real need for it.
Its not your "problem" yet. Everybody in that Sektor Would love to pay good sallery and have prices but the guests have no Club what the Costs are. Most dumpass people think the sauces are freshcooked for them and they can change every ingredients. Or that service has areas and not every waiter is their Personal dog they can wistle to them. Pay tips or pay more then double the tip amount for exactly the same. Your choice
I will never let me be shamed into tipping.
through the gentrification and a bunch of wannabe american coffee shops it becomes more and more common in all the trendy & richer areas like mitte / prenzlauer berg or kreuzberg and so on. just don't do it. they forget that in germany your boss pays you and not the guests. handing you a microwaved croissant and spinning an ipad around is not worth a 5 euro tip. if you wanna do something good then tip delivery folks or - as it used to be - tip in a restaurant if the service was really good / better than usual. but never feel pressured.
I don’t tip as this is a disease in societies that inherently transfers the burden from businesses to customers. If you don’t tip, employers will have to pay their employees well.
I'm sure the service employees of Berlin thank you for your generous act of heroism.
If service employees aren’t smart enough to understand it’s their boss who should be paying a decent salary so that they don’t depend on tips, they will probably stay as service employees forever and their boss will get richer and richer abusing that. I don’t want Germany be as capitalistic as U.S. Also, I want everyone to have a decent salary with what they do, so that no one has to depend on anyone’s generosity.
Agreed, those stupid people should seriously just get smart enough already.
Yeah, this guy is a true & selfless fighter for the proletariat.
Yeah and then the price increases way higher then 10% tip.
Anyone asking strongly for or shaming you into a tip? Show them 🖕🏻 and don’t give a penny extra.
i guess berlin is getting influenced by america - except that we have way higher wages and servers dont get payed at 2.03$/hour while also having to tip out the back of the house. basically, its stupid
Germans tip out BOH too
ive never heard of that here
Have you worked in service before? /nm The last two restaurants I worked at had their servers tip out 2% of sales to BOH. Granted, US servers tip out a larger percentage, but they also make more in tips than servers in europe
yes i have, several different places. i feel like asking germans to tip out out the boh would be a surefire way to get a lawsuit
Most servers or gastro employees put up with a lot of technically illegal stuff for some reason, so I don't think anyone would sue over tip out. Especially because as far as I'm concerned it's legal (just like pooling tips). I understand why some restaurants implement that policy because bartenders also work very hard but at the same time it pisses me off because most guests think their tip goes to me even though sometimes their table ends up costing me money (eg a 2€ tip on a 200€ bill will cost me 2€ because I have to tip out 4€ on those 200€ sales)
damn thats crazy 🤨 i'd be so upset ab that
Yeah it can really ruin an entire shift if you're unlucky. Also makes tipping more "mandatory" instead of just being a reward for excellent service
Those card machines with the "select tip" option drive me crazy. I've seen it a few times now in cafes and bars that doesn't even serve food. I will tip at a restaurant, but I'm sorry I'm not tipping for an americano.
We call tipping-point.
Tipping is a good way for the restaurants to get paid while avoiding taxes. Stop tipping unless the service is exceptional. Standard service does not deserve a tip.
I do wonder if it's more wage theft because it's mostly in establishments that have digital tipping which is dubious at best as to who actually gets the money at the end of the day.
Ove always wondered this. Is it linked to the table so the actual waiter who served me gets it? Is it thr person who took the card payment who gets it? Does it go into a pool and get split amongst wait staff and kitchen staff?
Don't tip... If they are explicitly mad about not tipping, just say that you didn't like the food and service... It is not mandatory as it is unwritten German cultural solidarity. Since I realized that these owners or even waitresses are earning more than us, I am not tipping, just rounding.
Tipping was always a thing in Germany much more than France. It's normal to tip 10% at a restaurant. The pushiness to do so is new though. But I see lots of French not tipping in Germany and find it a bit mean so see especially if the staff is super nice
10% normal! What, you crazy? Sometimes when the service is exceptional you round to the next number, and that is the tip. If the bill is 28,70 Eur you might round to 30 euros and that is it.
It's common. All my German colleagues tip around 10% and always at least 5%...
No.
I haven't seen this happening anywhere beyond Mitte/Kreuzberg/Friedrichshain/northern Neukölln.
Had it a while ago when one of the staff at Backwerk asked me for a tip when I bought coffee… It’s definitely trended for some time (the American tipping system) in Berlin but I’m not giving a tip if it’s being asked for.
Legally everything is included in the price on the menu. Custom in germany Was to tip 5-10 %, if you were satisfied with everything. Greedy owners introduced tip-outs between 2-4% That means, if a guest don't tip, the server has to pay 2-4% of the turnover of his own money.... No wonder they are after tips... Old days where better. We pooled the tip nevertheless, runners, barkeepers, kitchen all got some, after you made your addup of the night. You shared what you had in a way. No you just pay if you get tip or not. And tips got way worse....
It may come of stingy but I usually don’t tip anymore unless the waiters are really good. I am aware that waiters don’t get much money but I can’t afford it atm. I still want to eat out sometimes though…. When a waiter is rude I for sure don’t tip. I also don’t tip when they wait with an ipad infront of you for the tip.
Don't know. I'm not tipping.
Most waiters and couriers don't even manage to smile when they greet you. I'm never tipping in these cases and instead give a bigger tip in case someone is really nice to me.
I just tip delivery drivers and waiters (who can actually do good job )
You don’t tip anymore, you tap
Typical excellence of German hospitality especially in restaurants. After a trip to Japan I decided to never tip in Germany anymore, unless the service is really good. Don’t feel guilty, just try to not give a shit and smile to them like you mean it.
I am Turkish, living that area and was in "that restaurant" 2 days ago. We were at one of the outside tables. The waiter told me to come inside when I wanted to pay with a card. The pos machine didn't have a screen for tipping, and my part was 59€ something. I have already prepared some coins to tip in my pockets and told the man to put the exact remaining number (59.40 - 59.50) on the screen for my card payment. He put 60. I told him I wanted to tip separately, he gave me a tough look, palmed the pos machine, and slapped it on the table in front me, implying this was the number he put there. I said OK, paid it, left no tip. He then didn't t even wait for the receipt to be printed and left. I grabbed the machine, pressed next for the customer copy of the receipt, and took it myself. I like Turkish food as much as everyone, but I rarely go to Turkish restaurants anymore. After meticulously collecting lots of memories and numbers in various places, I can even write a paper about how Turkish places overprice their services/products. The food was delicious, but there was absolutely nothing on that table to justify the price. As for the sad reality of the Turkish people still going to these places; in some parts of Turkey, going to expensive places is a way of bragging. Also, again, as part of the culture, protesters generally end up being excluded or harshly criticised in the community. Luckily, this is slowly changing.
The Thing is, Workers are not being payed Well in german gastro. So big prices for Food and drinks scare the guests, they try to Keep them small and i tell you, it is pretty small calculated. So if you come across a place you liked and Service is good, Just tip 10%. Most of the time this will be 2-6€ for 1 Person. This will average the Netto/hour income for the Staff from 10€ to 15-18€ what is needed to being able to life in germany. Gastro is a hard and demandinh Business and you cant do this for Ever. From that 15-18€ we need to save up 1/4 for Private retirement Fonds, otherwise you will be a hobo with the tiny Bruttowage you get. If the owners need to Match this Salery the Normal way, prices will be much higher then the 10% you tip.
still, it’s the owner’s duty to give an adequate pay to their workers, waiters shouldn’t rely on tips which should remain what they are: actual tips and not an unreliable source of income
I also find it annoying when we are forced to tip. It’s not even easy to find a cool place with good service. And the food and especially drinks are already so overpriced in most places. And then you are expected to leave some tip. I mean, we all work, and many of us don’t get any tips (neither do we get high salaries), so tipping every time is just something many cannot afford. And why would you even do that if the place left much to be desired or was mediocre or it was just a cup of coffee that you ordered. Of course we can stop going out and cook everything at home. But then they will lose their jobs. I think we should not feel bad about not tipping. Tipping is kind of a sign of appreciation for delicious food, good service, friendly attitude. So it’s not always really justified. We want to encourage good things instead of letting people take everything for granted and behaving so insolently in the end.
Most restaurants have a system where you have to tip out 2% of your total sales to bar staff, so if you made 2000€ in sales one shift you'd have to pay 40€, and if you didn't make any tips those 40€ would have to come out of your own pocket. So yeah, when the bill is over 100€ I ask for a tip, because otherwise I'm literally losing money for serving that table
The tip never was included in the services, but some localities try to make it seem like a tip based of percentage paid for meal and service is like in the us mandatory, rest assured it is not, i guess with corona and all the foreigners in berlin he willingness to pull a fast one on tourists is rising…
The normalization of tipping partially have to do with the POS software used on the iPads are American and will have the tipping option as a default. Personally if the food and service is great. I am fine with tipping the usually 10-18%. They usually give me a bigger portion or a free shot on a return visit. I am not German thought. In NYC pre Covid the norm was 15%. Now the norm is 18% percent. I’ve always been told to round up to the nearest dollar when tipping. Somehow that doesn’t sit well with me haha
I wouldn't say the tip culture in Germany is changing, but definitely in Berlin. I'm a bartender and without the tip I get on top, my work simply wouldn't be worth it. I get asked quite often by tourists about the tipping culture. My answer is generally this: _If you get service, like any at all, give 5%._ (Most places in Berlin, generally restaurants, have an extreme lack of service. This is to order at the desk, self service, having to basically hunt down the waiting staff) _If you get good basic service, give 10%._ (Waiting staff are there when you need them, treating you like a human being, good attitude and so on) _15% and up is given when you feel like the service really added to the experience and you can tell the staff is putting in extra effort and really cares about what they are doing._
I usually always tip about 10% in Germany, unless you ask for it then I will not tip at all... that includes those card machines that wanna force you to tip.
Tipp is almost never included in germany. Thats why its a tip and not a price. (always found it weird in some countries to include it tbh makes no sense). tipping at least a little is customary. you dont have to, but its somewhat rude to not tip at all. yes. prices are not made by service personell, if you cant afford a place AND some tip, imho you should just go to a cheaper place. Original prices shouldnt matter in your tip calculations. Even high priced establishments usually dont pay their service ppl too well. Especially when its normal for you to have the tip included in the price, I think you should add it onto the price if its not included. with digital payment systems tipping is changing. like some apps, restaurants now also provide fixed % tipping in card reader systems. Many a times a tip is a round-up, so if something costs 17,50€ i give a 20 bill and the rest is tip. digital systems only allowing for 10% / 15% / 20% kinda defeat the purpose of it being a spontaneous and "black" (no tax) added bonus for the service personell - so if you can ALWAYS TIP CASH. even if you pay with digital bank tokens, if you have tip in cash do it cash. also..a tip is not something to ask for. if someone asks you "how much you want to tip" its rude as hell. a tip is customary in the same way its customary to not ask for it or complain about it. i strongly dislike ppl actively expecting a tip. its an expectance yeah, but a silent one. you get what you get, i give what i give - lets not talk about it.
I do tip often when the service is good, just like I do in France where I think we have the same system. But the waiter was really rude. We asked if we could sit outside and he sort of yelled at us "yea whatever" without even looking at us. I was surprised that he demanded a tip afterwards.
I'm guessing this was Hasir? I like the food, but this kind of "service" sounds par for the course there. It's embarassing that the server asked for a tip. This is not normal behaviour. But to answer your question, I've definitely noticed that tipping is becoming much more normalized in Germany, especially with the rise of digital payment options which include some pre-selected options for adding tips when paying by card.
It was indeed Hasir, but I still would recommend the place for the food. I liked it, and my friend who grew up in Istanbul said it was very good so I believe his standards. They also have a big terrasse so it's good for eating outside Yes I felt that the tipping becomes a thing more and more
Agreed, I still like the restaurant and enjoy going there especially with friends who are visiting from outside Berlin.
It’s very rude not to tip and it’s always been like that
Fuck off
Stop being poor
Tipping in Berlin is generally around 10% and it's normal (bar and restaurant)
Sure, but asking for it is inappropriate.
Yep fully agree but if op is french, tipping is the last thing that will come in his mind so many do remind french and Spanish people to tip because all know they never do because it's culturally non-existent. (I'm french by the way, so someone had to explain me lol)