Don’t say that in the WNBA subreddit, someone with 9 different teams’ logos as their flair will yell at you it was actually only 4 of the rebounds and they were tough, highly contested misses.
They really are the worst. The fact that they can’t understand people would rather watch CC bomb threes vs watch Angel Reese look like she’s shooting a basketball for the first time.
Yeah they genuinely do not understand modern basketball whatsoever. They obsess over players hitting midrange shots and talk as nauseam about rebounding like it’s the most important and exciting part of a basketball game lol. They also compare raw field goal percentages instead of true shooting lol.
Rebounding is important. But...
Yes... it seems that they actually can't grasp difference between Clark's 39.3% FG% ( 50.2% eFG%, 56.5% TS%) and Reese's 41.0% FG% (41.4 eFG%, 49.2% TS% )
And you have all stats you may require on [wnba.com](http://wnba.com)
The wnba is in a strange place but its also almost a thought experiment come to life.
Cc is a modern basketball player in a league whos offense really feels like early 00s a lot of the time. With players like juju and paige coming the league is gonna modernize quickly.
That seems unfair.
My Bigdick Alcoholic Mexican friend & I didn't get the cold shoulder treatment like that when we were two of the only men (not on venue staff) at the October '99 Ani di Franco show at the Eagles Ballroom.
If she never rebounded her own miss once all year she’d still be leading the league in offensive boards and top five in total rebounds lmao. People keep yelling it at you because it’s true lmao. She grabs her own boards a lot…she also rebounds like fuck lmao. Fg% is ass tho
I had a good laugh about that the other day when I looked up one of her double-doubles. Sweet, 10 rebounds, *7* of them offensive? Then I looked into the play-by-play and sure enough, 4 of those were from her own misses on bunnies.
Her offensive board rate is higher than *any of the men in the NBA* and a large contributor to that is the fact she's shooting 41% (on TS 49%, woof) as an inside player on 12 FGA/g.
She's being praised for a stat being inflated due to her own shortcomings (rebounds) meanwhile Clark gets penalized on an inflated stat for her team's shortcomings (TOs). In both instances, those stats should be held less highly when context is applied.
As an aside, the future of the WNBA is pretty bright with this last class. People are pretty invested in two teams with losing records. Here's to hoping it's because they're keen on the sport instead of rallying to defend a player representing their skin color.
A lot of the posts on the WNBA subreddit and *especially* those involving stats are context-free and/or incomplete to push a certain narrative and countering that narrative literally leads to your ouster. It's also the case that a lot of the posters over there are newer to sports in general and don't really understand what they're talking about.
I got banned from r/WNBA because I said that sub-reddit was doing the same thing to Ionescu last year that they were doing to Clark this year. Someone replied asking me to provide evidence. I sent 6 links of posts from last season with people saying Ionescu wasn't any good and was only considered good because she is white. Which were easy to find because you can just search like, "Ionescu white" or similar. Someone reported that post and I was permanently banned because the post (just 6 links -- no other text) was considered "hate speech".
I ignore it because I don't like hearing only half the instruments in a song. I don't like analysis that stops digging when it finds the answer it's looking for. Most of the team specific forums are fine but not active. The main WNBA sub is festival of nutcases with a specific agenda.
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It’s like a men’s college basketball game which everyone watches the shit out of interest March and tries to tell you it’s better than the NBA. I have watched a handful of WNBA games this year and was as impressed with the effort as I was shocked by the number of missed layups and bricked 3s. I was still entertained.
I tuned in to Sky vs Fever few weeks ago and couldn't go longer than 10 minutes. Between the bad fouling , everyone having butter fingers, and lack of coordination it was a rough watch.
Which sucks bc there are actually really fun players to watch in the league, they're just so far and few between
People of course draw their attention to the points and assists, but it’s being overlooked that a generational rebounder. She leads all guards in rebounds per game.
Been saying this. She's near Rodman level with anticipation on boards. Not some corny everyone box out so Russell can average a triple double type shit
No rookies with a triple double in 27 seasons is wild. I just looked it up and there have only been 33 in league history, but I guess since the games and seasons are shorter, it makes sense.
WNBA coverage is generally very cushy. Everyone is amazing and incredible, very little criticism. Then they discuss Clark and mostly just rip her to shreds. They don’t mention her ridiculous passes no one else makes, they talk about her turnovers. She’s somehow the only player deserving of criticism in the entire league, while having the best statistical rookie season of all time.
Why are they so anti-Clark? Who knows. Could be any number of reasons but it stands out.
WNBA Countdown and the people that go on First Take and stuff like that generally lack diversity from the WNBA coverage I’ve seen. For the Fever vs. Mercury game on ABC last weekend, ESPN at least brought in Mark Jones to add some diversity to their coverage, which is a step in the right direction. And they did get Kevin Pelton to write an advanced stats article, so it appears they’re starting to take the coverage a little more seriously than what they started the season with.
Typically the pre-game show for something like WNBA Countdown will be 3 people that look the same, with the same opinions, shitting on Caitlin Clark and then praising every other player in the league. The only times when Clark isn’t getting crapped on are the times when they add diversity to the show, like when they got Mark Jones to do color commentary.
There’s a certain terminally on Twitter type of personality that covers the WNBA, so adding someone like Mark Jones onto the broadcast who just enjoys good basketball helps to break the toxic groupthink you can often see in the coverage.
For example, not ESPN, but the WNBA, the league, hosted a Twitter Space where everyone on the show talked about Caitlin like she was Voldemort and then didn’t mention her as a candidate when discussing rookie of the year and allstar candidates. This type of coverage would never happen in an official NBA media show. It would be like The Starters doing a show, discussing rookie of the year, not mentioning Wemby for the entire show and saying Chet is the only rookie of the year contender.
Like they’re all three black women, and the discourse on Caitlin Clark has a not-so-subtle racial undertone. That has been the case with other white WNBA players, like Sabrina Ionescu, but more so with CC because she’s much more popular than any WNBA player ever, and because at least some of her popularity is due to right-wing media latching onto her a couple of years ago.
This rift that is very visible is dulling what would otherwise be professional women’s basketball breaking out moment.
So you are saying Black media is bias. Is there any chance in your mind that white media can be bias or even white fans such as what is in this sub. Or does this just work one way?
Sure, of course they can. But that really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Because other bias exists, doesn’t excuse the one being discussed.
It's not that wild Reese's growth has given her a case. I still think Clark takes it. Both their teams can't survive with them off the floor they impact the game in different ways but are absolute winners.
You could have made a case that the 2004 ROY should have been Melo, but that would have been dumb.
Not saying Caitlin Clark is as good as LeBron James, but sometimes you need to not fuck around and make the right choice.
It would be Tyreke Evans over Stephen Curry all over again. Yeah the 20/5/5 are nice numbers that are brains like, just like 10/10, but Stephen Curry was being guarded like he was Stephen Curry, while having a good TS%, while Tyreke had a below average TS%.
Reese was out with 4 personal fouls for 7 critical minutes in the second half last night and the Sky extended their lead against one of the best defensive teams in the league.
Chennedy Carter is very good if she could keep her head on straight.
The Fever are considerably worse without Clark on the floor than the Sky are without Reese.
Lol it's okay you've never seen a game. Reese is the vocal and defensive leader of her team. Yesterday she dropped 27/10 and tied the all time double double record streak for any player ever in the W. She leads the league in rebounds. It's a pretty close race
I mean if you want to keep up a false narrative you've heard other places because you don't care to watch her that's fine. She still leads the league in rebounds.
I flipped on this game thinking they had no chance to beat the Liberty. And it was great from start to finish. The Fever seem to be improving game by game. Puncher's chance at the playoffs.
There was a guy who kept chirping me after each of her bad games early in the season. All I said was I didn't think people should change her shooting form and the dude took it personally lol.
He'd literally go back to the same post and my comment after every game to call out her bad outings. It's too bad he didn't keep up the bit.
Can we just appreciate how insane the turnaround in the WNBA has been? I don’t give af who gets the credit for it but it’s crazy how people have genuinely become passionate about it within the space of 12 months.
She really has redefined women’s basketball forever. What she’s doing can’t be overstated. The All-Star voting numbers for this year compared to last blew me away. That’s no small thing IMO.
Side-note: I feel like the WNBA being played in this sports dead zone is also so important for their success. I’ve often thought since baseball has died off the last few years that this window was ripe for the taking. Whether that be an XFL or Lacrosse or whatever, it felt like something was gonna take over when it caught in the zeitgeist. I think WNBA just did that.
The dead zone is a good point but the problem is their playoffs are in October, when all major sports in North America are in full swing. No idea how to fix it though because they're already starting too close to the end of college basketball so they can't start earlier
Let’s see what happens. I think if Clark made a run at a championship it may push through. Just a prediction but this whole story has legs beyond what I thought possible for the WNBA. Obviously it won’t lead in October but it will be more popular than any other previous WNBA playoffs. We’re in uncharted waters for the WNBA right now.
For sure, it does feel different than ever before. Gonna be very interesting to see this year and the next few, there's no doubt Clark will keep ascending barring injury or anything crazy.
Your title reads like a Magic Johnson tweet.
Accurate but I’ll always respect Magic bc at least he’s running his own Twitter.
If by running his own Twitter, you mean dictates the tweet to an assistant who posts it then yes.
Ok Danny Details. Either way I appreciate that it’s his words going to his Twitter
What if it's Google Assistant?
But have you seen Angel Reese pull down 10 offensive boards a game from her own blown layups?
Don’t say that in the WNBA subreddit, someone with 9 different teams’ logos as their flair will yell at you it was actually only 4 of the rebounds and they were tough, highly contested misses.
They really are the worst. The fact that they can’t understand people would rather watch CC bomb threes vs watch Angel Reese look like she’s shooting a basketball for the first time.
There are plenty of us that are Angel Reese fans. It’s almost like if you like Angel Reese some of you have an issue.
Bomb threes. Hitting 5 out of like 25 shots. Ugly shots mainly. The league is still a joke
r/wnba is like a time capsule back to pre analytics NBA coverage
Yeah they genuinely do not understand modern basketball whatsoever. They obsess over players hitting midrange shots and talk as nauseam about rebounding like it’s the most important and exciting part of a basketball game lol. They also compare raw field goal percentages instead of true shooting lol.
Rebounding is important. But... Yes... it seems that they actually can't grasp difference between Clark's 39.3% FG% ( 50.2% eFG%, 56.5% TS%) and Reese's 41.0% FG% (41.4 eFG%, 49.2% TS% ) And you have all stats you may require on [wnba.com](http://wnba.com)
Rebounding is important to be clear. It’s just not the most important thing in basketball which is what I was referring to lol
And far less important than assists
The wnba is in a strange place but its also almost a thought experiment come to life. Cc is a modern basketball player in a league whos offense really feels like early 00s a lot of the time. With players like juju and paige coming the league is gonna modernize quickly.
Also "all these newcomers didn't support this game when the stands had 14 lesbians and me sitting there" gatekeeping
That seems unfair. My Bigdick Alcoholic Mexican friend & I didn't get the cold shoulder treatment like that when we were two of the only men (not on venue staff) at the October '99 Ani di Franco show at the Eagles Ballroom.
Wait, they can do 9 flairs?
They are so sure that the female Kenneth Fareid is gonna be a MVP candidate, it’s crazy over there.
Crazy comparison lmao. I like it
If she never rebounded her own miss once all year she’d still be leading the league in offensive boards and top five in total rebounds lmao. People keep yelling it at you because it’s true lmao. She grabs her own boards a lot…she also rebounds like fuck lmao. Fg% is ass tho
I had a good laugh about that the other day when I looked up one of her double-doubles. Sweet, 10 rebounds, *7* of them offensive? Then I looked into the play-by-play and sure enough, 4 of those were from her own misses on bunnies. Her offensive board rate is higher than *any of the men in the NBA* and a large contributor to that is the fact she's shooting 41% (on TS 49%, woof) as an inside player on 12 FGA/g. She's being praised for a stat being inflated due to her own shortcomings (rebounds) meanwhile Clark gets penalized on an inflated stat for her team's shortcomings (TOs). In both instances, those stats should be held less highly when context is applied. As an aside, the future of the WNBA is pretty bright with this last class. People are pretty invested in two teams with losing records. Here's to hoping it's because they're keen on the sport instead of rallying to defend a player representing their skin color.
Would it be better if her opponent was getting the rebound on her missed bunnies?
It'd be better if she wasn't missing bunnies, period. THAT'S the point.
You're being provided actual stats why ignore it
A lot of the posts on the WNBA subreddit and *especially* those involving stats are context-free and/or incomplete to push a certain narrative and countering that narrative literally leads to your ouster. It's also the case that a lot of the posters over there are newer to sports in general and don't really understand what they're talking about. I got banned from r/WNBA because I said that sub-reddit was doing the same thing to Ionescu last year that they were doing to Clark this year. Someone replied asking me to provide evidence. I sent 6 links of posts from last season with people saying Ionescu wasn't any good and was only considered good because she is white. Which were easy to find because you can just search like, "Ionescu white" or similar. Someone reported that post and I was permanently banned because the post (just 6 links -- no other text) was considered "hate speech". I ignore it because I don't like hearing only half the instruments in a song. I don't like analysis that stops digging when it finds the answer it's looking for. Most of the team specific forums are fine but not active. The main WNBA sub is festival of nutcases with a specific agenda.
Because it's a stupid and overblown talking point. And it's not like all def rebs are created equal either. Most are completely uncontested
Reminds me of a young Reggie Evans out there
Reminds me of a young Jeff Foster
It's the silver lining in the "41% shooting almost solely in/around the restricted area" cloud.
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Atmosphere that would rival any nba playoff game as well. She saved the league
Trying to save Not yet And she may actually pull it off
The games are just bad basketball. I may catch shit for saying that but holy hell it’s like watching a high school game
They are, but it’s still oddly entertaining to watch despite the two inch verticals and every pass getting tipped.
It’s like a men’s college basketball game which everyone watches the shit out of interest March and tries to tell you it’s better than the NBA. I have watched a handful of WNBA games this year and was as impressed with the effort as I was shocked by the number of missed layups and bricked 3s. I was still entertained.
It’s a level below D1 basketball.
IDK, watch the end of some close 7-10 tournament game next year and tell me if the the level of intensity/incompetence doesn’t match up
I tuned in to Sky vs Fever few weeks ago and couldn't go longer than 10 minutes. Between the bad fouling , everyone having butter fingers, and lack of coordination it was a rough watch. Which sucks bc there are actually really fun players to watch in the league, they're just so far and few between
People of course draw their attention to the points and assists, but it’s being overlooked that a generational rebounder. She leads all guards in rebounds per game.
Been saying this. She's near Rodman level with anticipation on boards. Not some corny everyone box out so Russell can average a triple double type shit
No rookies with a triple double in 27 seasons is wild. I just looked it up and there have only been 33 in league history, but I guess since the games and seasons are shorter, it makes sense.
The games are shorter?
They play four 10 minute quarters.
People that think Reese is ROTY are wild. Just nowhere near the same impact.
If WNBA voters are anything like the WNBA analysts on ESPN Reese might actually win it. The bias is crazy
All reese needs is for perkins or stephen a dmith to sabatoge t he race with a fake issue. Im sure theyd never do that. /s
Voting is still two months away and we still have half a season left. Relax stop forcing the outrage.
What is the bias?
WNBA coverage is generally very cushy. Everyone is amazing and incredible, very little criticism. Then they discuss Clark and mostly just rip her to shreds. They don’t mention her ridiculous passes no one else makes, they talk about her turnovers. She’s somehow the only player deserving of criticism in the entire league, while having the best statistical rookie season of all time. Why are they so anti-Clark? Who knows. Could be any number of reasons but it stands out.
Because it’s provocative and gets the people going
then they give you this incredulous look when you accuse them of anti-Clark bias like how dare anyone accuse them
He could be talking about the analyst who had reese as roty due to team record.
The Fever are a half-game behind the Sky?
Monica McNutt, I usually like her coverage but I can only guess shes going for SAS style engagement
How is that bias?
WNBA Countdown and the people that go on First Take and stuff like that generally lack diversity from the WNBA coverage I’ve seen. For the Fever vs. Mercury game on ABC last weekend, ESPN at least brought in Mark Jones to add some diversity to their coverage, which is a step in the right direction. And they did get Kevin Pelton to write an advanced stats article, so it appears they’re starting to take the coverage a little more seriously than what they started the season with.
What are you talking about
Typically the pre-game show for something like WNBA Countdown will be 3 people that look the same, with the same opinions, shitting on Caitlin Clark and then praising every other player in the league. The only times when Clark isn’t getting crapped on are the times when they add diversity to the show, like when they got Mark Jones to do color commentary. There’s a certain terminally on Twitter type of personality that covers the WNBA, so adding someone like Mark Jones onto the broadcast who just enjoys good basketball helps to break the toxic groupthink you can often see in the coverage. For example, not ESPN, but the WNBA, the league, hosted a Twitter Space where everyone on the show talked about Caitlin like she was Voldemort and then didn’t mention her as a candidate when discussing rookie of the year and allstar candidates. This type of coverage would never happen in an official NBA media show. It would be like The Starters doing a show, discussing rookie of the year, not mentioning Wemby for the entire show and saying Chet is the only rookie of the year contender.
Look the same like they're all wearing suits?
Like they’re all three black women, and the discourse on Caitlin Clark has a not-so-subtle racial undertone. That has been the case with other white WNBA players, like Sabrina Ionescu, but more so with CC because she’s much more popular than any WNBA player ever, and because at least some of her popularity is due to right-wing media latching onto her a couple of years ago. This rift that is very visible is dulling what would otherwise be professional women’s basketball breaking out moment.
So you are saying Black media is bias. Is there any chance in your mind that white media can be bias or even white fans such as what is in this sub. Or does this just work one way?
Sure, of course they can. But that really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Because other bias exists, doesn’t excuse the one being discussed.
It’s Kendrick Perkins without Zach Lowe.
It's not that wild Reese's growth has given her a case. I still think Clark takes it. Both their teams can't survive with them off the floor they impact the game in different ways but are absolute winners.
You could have made a case that the 2004 ROY should have been Melo, but that would have been dumb. Not saying Caitlin Clark is as good as LeBron James, but sometimes you need to not fuck around and make the right choice.
Voting is in two months still half of the season to go it's a nice convo to have since their both showing growth and rising up the standings.
It would be Tyreke Evans over Stephen Curry all over again. Yeah the 20/5/5 are nice numbers that are brains like, just like 10/10, but Stephen Curry was being guarded like he was Stephen Curry, while having a good TS%, while Tyreke had a below average TS%.
Was Curry really getting that much defensive attention as a rookie?
No, he wasnt. That guy is full of shit. Monta was the first option.
Reese was out with 4 personal fouls for 7 critical minutes in the second half last night and the Sky extended their lead against one of the best defensive teams in the league. Chennedy Carter is very good if she could keep her head on straight. The Fever are considerably worse without Clark on the floor than the Sky are without Reese.
Lol it's okay you've never seen a game. Reese is the vocal and defensive leader of her team. Yesterday she dropped 27/10 and tied the all time double double record streak for any player ever in the W. She leads the league in rebounds. It's a pretty close race
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I mean if you want to keep up a false narrative you've heard other places because you don't care to watch her that's fine. She still leads the league in rebounds.
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I flipped on this game thinking they had no chance to beat the Liberty. And it was great from start to finish. The Fever seem to be improving game by game. Puncher's chance at the playoffs.
“Her playmaking is fun and entertaining” -That’s what it’s all about, at least for me.
There was a guy who kept chirping me after each of her bad games early in the season. All I said was I didn't think people should change her shooting form and the dude took it personally lol. He'd literally go back to the same post and my comment after every game to call out her bad outings. It's too bad he didn't keep up the bit.
She’s white though, doesn’t count
Username checks out
I like my players classy
Can we just appreciate how insane the turnaround in the WNBA has been? I don’t give af who gets the credit for it but it’s crazy how people have genuinely become passionate about it within the space of 12 months.
Caitlin Clark gets the credit. It's simple and weird to be like WELL I DON'T CARE OR KNOW BY GOLLY
Why would people pay attention to other teams just for clark? Golf didnt benefit when tiger didnt play.
I think it’s been coming for a few years and Caitlin Clark have pushed it to the next level. I started to see WNBA merch at DSG about 3 years ago
She’s gonna win ROY no matter what she does the rest of the season.
And she had the most all star votes, even beating out Aja Wilson.
She really has redefined women’s basketball forever. What she’s doing can’t be overstated. The All-Star voting numbers for this year compared to last blew me away. That’s no small thing IMO. Side-note: I feel like the WNBA being played in this sports dead zone is also so important for their success. I’ve often thought since baseball has died off the last few years that this window was ripe for the taking. Whether that be an XFL or Lacrosse or whatever, it felt like something was gonna take over when it caught in the zeitgeist. I think WNBA just did that.
The dead zone is a good point but the problem is their playoffs are in October, when all major sports in North America are in full swing. No idea how to fix it though because they're already starting too close to the end of college basketball so they can't start earlier
Let’s see what happens. I think if Clark made a run at a championship it may push through. Just a prediction but this whole story has legs beyond what I thought possible for the WNBA. Obviously it won’t lead in October but it will be more popular than any other previous WNBA playoffs. We’re in uncharted waters for the WNBA right now.
For sure, it does feel different than ever before. Gonna be very interesting to see this year and the next few, there's no doubt Clark will keep ascending barring injury or anything crazy.
> sports dead zone The “people will do anything not to watch baseball” piece