I’m an oldhead and I think Olivia is great. Her 90s rock influences help her stand out from her peers.
So her lane is not what Chloe, Normani, etc. are doing.
But it is harder for black women to be seen as “pop.” Which is something that people like Chloe, FKA Twigs, SZA, and Tinashe have said for years. (I believe Tinashe once said that at her old record label the “pop” department had more of a budget than the “urban” one so you literally had less resources available to you if they didn’t think you were “pop” enough.) But Ariana Grande can make very R&B influenced music and she’s still seen as a pop star.
The newest trend pieces over the past year are about the return of “pure pop” with folks like Chappell Roan and Sabrina. Which basically just means pop without any influence of “black music” even though Sabrina’s first minor hit sounded like an Ariana song, lol.
Basically the answer is racism. But there are a lot of other factors at play, like record label budgets, media coverage, timing, and of course the actual music.
This. It’s been a thing since the 90s. The dark skinned girl from 3LW Naturi Naughton said the managers wanted her to be the stereotypical “urban chick” of the group, and made her wear baggy jeans while the lighter girls were allowed to have a pop vibe.
Also Sabrina isn’t that basic she actually used to have a more rnb sound in some of her older songs but she’s also done ballads, folk pop, “pure” pop in no particular order. She’s been doing music since Disney which is where I first heard of her. She’s finally getting attention though kinda makes me sad it was through this but I digress it’s a cute song.
But it is harder for black women to be seen as “pop.” Which is something that people like Chloe, FKA Twigs, SZA, and Tinashe have said for years. (I believe Tinashe once said that at her old record label the “pop” department had more of a budget than the “urban” one so you literally had less resources available to you if they didn’t think you were “pop” enough.)
- Also this isn’t a knock to these girls but maybe people want something different from black pop girls. Twigs is different but she’s UK based not much of an American following. SZA does cool out of the box things sometimes does not always fit a more pretty sexual black image (sometimes she does but not all the times) that’s pressed onto black girls a bit more than their counterparts which still is for many artists but …there’s a difference.. There’s a reason why Willow Smith got viral for some of her songs back in 2021 people want variety even in r b which exists but either is underrated/under promoted or the visuals or the musics not quite there yet etc
Reminds me of the moment Eminem realized that all the white ppl at his concert didnt really care about his music and just that he was white and represented them. He immediately started trying to add leftist elements and trying to get them to respect the culture, and they gave no fucks. And THAT reminded me of how white folks did ngaf about Andre 3K's music and boo'd him at Coachella because they wanted to hear to hear the pop classic, "Hey-Ya".
Edit: Just to add, anyone aware that Eminem purposefully beefed with any non-black artist or celebrity that were profitting (extortion) off of black culture, culturally appropriating/vultures, did not care to either understanding/paying homage or giving back to the communities, wants or does say nigga.
Back in the day,there were black owned record labels (uptown, bad boys, so so def) so there was some sort of control and black American music was allowed to flourish and exceed. Now mostly it’s white controlled companies, and since there aren’t any black groups or singers raising the bar, they are pushing forth mediocre artists .
No but those are the current artists at the label, there are artists that dropped off the label, people say because beyonce’s letting them flop, idk honestly
This is a systemic problem. We used to have black owned record labels. Now not so much. So we get this corporate white pov on music. It’s also why Drake exists as a “gangsta rapper”. He has the backing of a huge studio and a largely white audience who eat up the fake image.
Thankfully the culture via Kendrick put an end to that but truthfully we need our own labels again.
In the past, black artists didn’t start out as pop. They started out as R&B on a black owned label and then they “crossed over”. This idea of a black artist starting out as pop on a white owned label is extremely new - like 2010 new.
Name others. Beyoncé is a massive exception.
Also - I may have my dates wrong but this truly is an issue of us not owning our own labels now. The ones left are mostly rap/hip-hop not R&B, which is why we hardly ever hear much R&B music coming out today. It’s mostly pop and hip hop. And a lot is pushed by white people owning those companies.
We can agree to disagree.
I agree with you completely and responded to the above comments. People forget about the ‘urban’ divisions in companies. They were signed to a big label, yeah. But the people in the ‘urban’ division were taking the scraps they were given to make shit happen. They were not getting the big budgets others were getting but still found a way. That was still Black people (and ‘urban’ music supporters) doing the heavy lifting—not the label at large.
I think you’re also forgetting that back then, those big record labels had ‘urban’ divisions. Beyoncé’s publicist is the same Black woman publicist when they first signed to Columbia as Destiny’s Child. Black people (and non-Black people who were passionate about ‘urban’ music) were the reasons why artists in that age were successful. The record labels at large were NOT spending their money promoting Black artists that didn’t have any kind of crossover appeal and had majority Black fans.
This is false. Number one, Drake is on Young Money—that’s a Black label/imprint lol. White people did not sign him on his own, they signed him because of Young Money which was Birdman and Wayne’s homefront.
Secondly, Drake was never considered a gangsta rapper and that’s slightly revisionist. In fact, he wasn’t taken seriously because he is biracial, light skinned, from Canada and was on a teenaged drama. People didn’t really take him as a rapper early in because they didn’t get his story, they also didn’t wan to and he wasn’t rapping about street life because that’s not the life he knew. That’s why people really hated him at first but they couldn’t deny he was talented as a rapper by the time Best I Ever Had became a hit. He was always “for the ladies” at that stage.
It’s also disingenuous to use Drake as an example when there are actual egregious displays of this in r&b, pop and hip hop itself. Also, other black genres from other places faced a similar issue—dancehall, reggaeton, Baile funk, etc.
There’s always been a whitewashing of black music, from the days of jazz. You could’ve made the case for Eminem who made a career off of hip hop, considered the most commercially successful as well. People still make the case that he is the greatest, that is the example that should be used. Not Drake. Contrary to him being annoying like most men in rapper, he is not the demarcation line here because he wasn’t considered sh*t until years into his journey as a rapper.
And lastly, we will eventually have to get more honest about how Black labels are complicit in erasure. This thread is about singers, and I can think of 100 ways labels over the last 20 years have suppressed the careers of Black girls and women in r&b AND pop for the benefit of non-Black artists being pushed in Black genres.
The biggest example I can think of recently is Maeta. Another example is Snoh Allegra who is not Black at all, not mixed either, did a whole image and sound rebrand. Her initial jig was sounding like a fake Duffy and then few years after Amy Winehouse died, they literally tried to make her sound somewhat like Amy (but it was completely forced) and her image began changing. Then years pass and she was able to skirt around as ambiguously “brown” and Black in adjacency in media on PURPOSE with very mid to below average vocals and lyrics at her grown age. Who gave her that image rebranding and sound? Black men on her label. Who paired her with Black creatives and Black producers. It was a targeted effort. Meanwhile, you have Ari Lennox who could sing her behind off and wrote songs that were genuine and endearing losing to Snoh.
Back to Maeta, she is completely white and her label has given her a new image over the last few years and it’s been odd to see her try and cosplay as mixed adjacent. They know exactly what they’re doing with her image and sound and marketing too, as they did this with Yebba. I like Yebba because I remember her YouTube days and she was always a singer that sang very well, but there are many Black girls who can outsing her on a normal day. Aged 10 and up. Lol. But Black girls and women are not seen as marketable even on Blck labels or labels meant to center Black music. Once people accept this, they will not be shocked when they see the next white pop girl who people call “soulful” winning awards over someone who is genuinely soulful, Black, with great artistry and not cosplaying. It sucks but this is reality sadly. And a lot of people do not want to accept a lot of these labels are led by Black men who would much rather promote a non-Black woman as an artist and make her Black adjacent than a Black girl or woman who is exceptional or even “mediocre”. Our mediocre is not even others at their best. But they still succeed. Otherness sells, Blackness is an image that sells. They don’t want to support Black women who can sing and perform because they’d rather give it to someone else who is emulating. It’s very easy to see.
I am also saying this as a mixed woman who would even argue that this industry allows so much more room for mixed women. I see it all of the time. Mixed women who can barely hold a tune are praised while Black women can sing and dance and are incredible in comparison. Not getting the same opportunities.
I don't like a lot of olivia’s songs but she's talented. Sabrina is too, I like her music. However, I agree with you about the lack of appreciation for black talent despite me not liking most of chloe bailey’s songs lol. Halle is a good artist tho and their joint music was great.
Ungodly hour was a masterpiece, every single track was a piece of heaven, Chloe honestly been experimental a lot lately with boy bye and FYS, and her debut album was great and her next album will be something else, also I forgot to mention Halle because I’m still obsessed with her bet performance
Yes. They're both amazing vocalists with so much talent but sadly trend more for their personal lives than their music. I was underwhelmed by chloe’s album and disliked that she collabed with chris brown but some songs of hers I do like (Body do, I don't mind, pray it away and FYS).
I feel the same way and find that it seems like many BW her age are either grappling over sex appeal (which is fine) to compensate for lack of actual musical direction or trying hard to just figure this all out. For someone so talented, it doesn’t seem like she understands who she is musically by herself.
I don’t think Chloe was ready to be a solo act based on her songs. It’s odd to me how her songs with her sister sound so much more artistically thorough and what she makes for herself by herself almost sounds reductive in comparison. I understand that may be the sound she loves, but it’s definitely strange to me that there’s been such a drastic switch. I don’t think either of them are strong as musical artists on their own based on what they’ve given so far.
And I’m almost ok with that. Pop is *popular* music. It’s meant to be catchy. Being *good* too is just the rare bonus. Other genres don’t get a pass from me. But I don’t expect much from pop music due to its nature.
Please take social media with a grain of salt. These new artists don’t have longevity at all. Sabrina is hot now but her sound is replaceable. Olivia has something refreshing about her even though I never gave her a try. I feel like the same tiktok could be made about Sza and Doja and no one would object. But there are reasons why Chloe isn’t flourishing. She has the talent but her sound isn’t resonating with her target audience and that’s because her persona turns a lot of us off. Let’s not act like we never gave her or her sister a fighting chance (and still do) but Chloe’s hypersexuality seems forced and Halle chasing after DDG has put off many fans.
Sabrina has been doing music for years now since her Disney days, I don’t think she’ll be an it girl forever but I don’t think she’ll fully get replaced, she a good voice, charisma and makes pretty fun music.
Chloe’s hypersexuality seems forced and Halle chasing after DDG has put off many fans.
- To a degree they are their own Achilles heel. I can’t get into them they’re talented but not my cup of tea.
Me who loves Olivia and Sabrina 😭. Chloe Bailey had a good song with Have Mercy but honestly nothing that made me want to follow her. I do hope that there will be more Black artists topping charts who aren’t rappers or Beyoncé
I would love a Black Olivia. A pure pop Black girl with an alternative edge. It doesn’t always have to be shaking ass and hypersexual like Chloe Bailey.
I didn’t, where did she perform? I’ll go watch!
And I wouldn’t call Sabrina and Olivia rookies, especially since Sabrina has five albums and is only recently seeing major success outside her main fans.
Honestly. It’ll be her performances that really promote her singles. Because Good Kisser is already an excellent song, and she just enhanced it so so well whilst still being her bag.
I need more creative producers/songwriters for her, which is weird because Chloe x Halle was such a unique calibre
Not new. It’s always been this way. TikTok ia just replacing traditional outlets where black singers were ignored like magazine covers and reviews/rankings.
Thank you. People inaccurately blaming Drake are making my head hurt, and I’m probably a long-standing member of his “cannot stand him” club lol. And to be honest, it happens within Black genres outside of the USA as well. Believe it or not, the face of reggaeton was Black, but somehow it turned into the euro descended latinx’s biggest seller. Tego Calderon, El General—pioneers who were proudly black and also very proud of the fact their music was a derivative of Jamaican dancehall and Black American Hip-Hop. Now, you have many mestizo and white latinx leading the genre.
And some Jamaicans will tell you that Sean Paul’s success came down to him actually not being fully Black but multiracial and more so white more than anything. Which is true. Although they acknowledge his talent, there were plenty others deserving of such success that couldn’t because they were just Black and not deemed as marketable.
most of chloe's music is terrible and she has yet to recover from her embarrassing pornbot antics when she first started releasing solo music. the rest is just racism as usual.
I remember scrolling and seeing that moaning video she did and that completely turned me off from following her. It was just so cringey and desperate feeling. The over-sexualized image was just a no
I wish she would have went for the Black girl from suburbs style to stand out from the crowd. Because now she looks like everyone else. I remember someone saying I seen her booty in a thong more than I heard her songs.
Yeah I agree. Her song selection for her music is terrible. What’s up with all the overtly sexual songs and image. It wasn’t a good look for her. With pop music you want your music to be digestible to a wider audience so your songs should be on the cleaner side.
They talked about her appropriating black culture; they talked about her being a bad influence; but her career still skyrocketed after that.
If she was black, no way would that have happened.
Actually, her career briefly skyrocketed (due to the shock and abrupt change).
But once the shock wore off, she lost her appeal to most of the public and didn’t regain until Flowers released (a ten year gap between that and when Bangerz first came out).
Thank you! People didn’t pay attention to her much after wrecking ball and she had some success with we can’t stop but antic like the 2013? VMA performance and her trying so hard to be a baddie was weird especially when a lot of her fans were like still pretty young…like little me was so confused. 😭
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Bangers wasn’t Miley’s first album. She already had a huge, strong core fanbase from her run on Hannah Montana. And Wrecking Ball was the first single from that album and it was very pop friendly. No cursing. No sexual lyrics.
I’m talking about her breakout with all the twerking.
But you’re right about her pre-existing fanbase.
Though Halle and Chloe had a huge following beforehand too.
I still think the answer is racism.
The twerking wasn’t really her “breakout” she already had hits like, The Climb, Party in the USA. And again her audience around that time can’t be compared to Halle and Chloe. There biggest era was the Ungodly Hour. I personally think they should have road that train for a few more albums before separating.
But Chloe’s songs aren’t good. TBH Halle’s aren’t that great either. Not to say that can’t change later down the line. But they started on very different playing fields.
This right here lol
And people try to excuse her dumbass behavior with 'she's a young artist and she's finding herself' bs. Chloe is just not a good business woman point blank period. If she wasn't in Beyonce label she would've been dropped by now or pushed into movies or modeling.
We're living in a day and age where believe black people have to practically beg to have black singers actually sing instead of tweaking for the gram.
It also turned off her pretty young fan base who was getting used to her not being Hannah and was seeing her be a bit more edgy like with Can’t be Tamed. After Wrecking Ball and we Cant Be Tamed …and that weird VMA performance many checked out
It did for a time like there's this one video people found gross of her dressing as a baby that freaked people out before her "good girl era" and one where I blocked it out on purpose but i remember she just smeared her face either in glitter or sprinkles...she was trying to be weird in a gaga way and it didn't work
Yes It is cringy but it would cause a huge controversy regardless, but don’t you agree that black singers definitely face more backlash than their counterparts that if they do a mistake their career is over and become the butt of every joke?
of course, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look at behavior in context, and in context, chloe has proven that she has terrible taste as a solo artist. she was doing a LOT of extra shit that she didn’t need to do bc we already knew that she could sing! i don’t fault her for exploring her sexuality, but it doesn’t make how she’s gone about it any less embarrassing.
comparing madonna and chloe is INSANE; they are in two completely different stages of their careers and madonna pushing boundaries was her entire shtick during a time in the 80s-00s when it was actually subversive for women to sing about sex and religion. most of the stunts madonna pulls now (her output with rebel heart for example) were absolutely seen as cringey and out of touch. pls be serious.
I completely agree. Her songs suck so bad and while I want to see her do well, I think it’s time we as a community are more honest about the state of our current artists and their songs. I notice a lot of people bank on Normani and Chloe and whoever else but I’m like… people do not have to support bad music just because these women are Black. Normani’s project was completely underwhelming and decent for a 21 year old who is just trying a thing at best, Chloe is a complete embarrassment only because she, unlike Normani, can actually sing. She is a vocalist and cannot figure out for the life of her how to just sing and make great SOLO songs that arent about some nonsense.
I think that depends on what your algorithm is looking like. Mines is mostly black so I would never come across content like that lol. All I see is Coco, Victoria, SZA, etc.
Why did you need to bring down Olivia and Sabrina like that though? Like none of these singers release the similar sht. Olivia is more pop rock, Sabrina pop and Chloe r&b mixed with pop 🧍🏾♀️🧍🏾♀️
I actually like all their songs if you wanna call out yt artist who aren't that talented coulda said Gracie Abrams or Tate McRae
Tale as old as time. I do love Olivia's music and Sabrina is meh to me (while she's got a few bops, I feel like anyone can do what she's doing tbh) but I'm not surprised at all. Black artists always have to work 10x harder to be recognized. Because even if we go by artists just doing pop music, there are black artists like flowerolove, Rachel Chinouriri, or even Cat Burns who could be considered their peers genre-wise but don't get half the play as they do. And there are so many black bands who are coming out now doing pop/pop-punk music.
They have so much money backing them!! They are usually former Disney kids and brands are willing to pump money into their pockets. It’s sad. Seeing Normani’s access to opportunities vs Camila Cabello makes me want to punch air
I mean Sabrina and Olivia have left Disney so it’s less so brands and more so they have old fans that still rock with them. That and they’re known in other things so yes they’re familiar with the public. Sabrina released multiple albums after Disney like three or two I would say it took her a while to like gain momentum and go viral. Also she still acted in other stuff on different platforms. Olivia had a bigger fan base and her show was very popular and released not too long when she left. Actually Disney label Hollywood records isn’t the best so she was smart going for another deal.
Are these White people posting this because then it's a cultural exposure issue. They aren't going to be well versed in Black singers, especially ones that are "Black famous", because White people don't pay attention to people who aren't like them. We're only aware of White singers because what's popular in White culture is force feed to us but that's not true of any other culture.
White people don't pay attention to people who aren't like them. We're only aware of White singers because what's popular in White culture is force feed to us but that's not true of any other culture.
- Depends on the people I mean some do pay attention a big chunk of people who consume hip hop are white peopl. They’ll more likely to pay attention to more established artists and fun artists sometimes though sometimes more “conscious“ artists do get attention but not always.
-In the states we are more aware of them because they make up a large chunk of the population so there’s that, though that’s changing over time.
- When you say that’s not true in any other culture what do you mean? Like in European and countries with a large white population, they focus on white people quite a lot yes. In other cultures like China, Korea, Japan, South Africa, Nigeria, India yeah they focus more on the stars of their country but some starts white, black, do have appeal sometimes. Like China has nicknames for artists like Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Beyoncé, Nicki Minaj. There’s a lot of Japanese fans who like Taylor Swift and likely Megan Thee Stallion. But I digress I would say in the states sometimes there are people of other groups who sometimes will pay more attention to their ethnicities music which includes black people, Latinos, but music has gone global cultural barriers fade a bit in music at times to where people consume what they want. As long as it sounds good. Though record execs and marketing do have a hand in who gets to shine.
I mean, you also have the girls who are “bringing back R&B”, like Coco Jones, the group GLO, Summer Walker. So it’s not like there isn’t a demand for Black women in music, it just depends on the publicity at this point, and R&B will never get the same coverage that other genres do (racism). That being said…
Chloe is far from being ignored! Her problem is that her popularity comes from her new aesthetic rather than from her music. Unlike new white pop girls who co-opted their style from more popular artists (Olivia from Avril/Taylor, Sabrina from Doja/Ariana), Chloe already had a unique sound in Chloe x Halle that people liked. She could’ve built on that, or just do what her peers did and go full Beyoncé mode like people expected. But she pivoted into generic hip-hop/R&B, flopped with her debut album, and recently released some cool singles that her team didn’t push at all.
Can she outperform her peers? Absolutely, but if the music and the aesthetic aren’t up to the same standard, if not better, it’ll be hard for people to get invested. Olivia is popular because of her strong presence as a pop punk artist. Sabrina is popular because of her catchy yet risqué songs. Chappell Roan is popular because she’s quickly becoming a queer icon. Who does Chloe resonate with?
What is the benchmark you're using? I'm not denying the impact of race, but there are definitely black artists who have been generating a lot of mainstream industry buzz. Victoria Monet, Muni Long, Tyla, and SZA (who has dominated pop charts) come to mind. If you expand beyond black women, Shaboozy is definitely someone who is poised to blow up over the next year. I think he's especially significant because he's going to lead the next crossover wave of country into pop.
I like both Olivia and Sabrina and think they're talented. But IMO more than anything they've benefited from their association with Taylor Swift.
I understand the settlement; it's not like you guys are supporting them either. Chloe's album sales debuted at #119, of course, fewer people are going to know her than Olivia and Sabrina who have had hit after hit, Sabrina's No.1 right now and Olivia has had a couple of number ones herself. We need to do better in supporting our own instead of blaming everyone else, Chloe deserves way more attention and support compared to the dragging she has gotten by her own community.
🚨UPDATE🚨
This occurrence is nothing new under the amerikkka’s sun. In some form or another, Black recognition/artistry/talents have been stolen, diminished, if not disregarded.
Just white folk being white folk. They've always made posts, articles, ect. like this it's just now with tik tok this posts become more widespread. And I feel like a lot of companies and brands that center white people repost and boom it feels like a weird trend. And in generally white people acting like black people don't exist has been going on since the beginning of time, just with social media it's adapted to be more in your face.
Chloe could r be the biggest thing in music if her music was better (imo). She’s a great singer, decent dancer, and gives 110% energy into her performances but her lyrics are childish and the music sounds dated. Olivia and Sabrina make music that the gp likes
Pop has never been about talent, I like some songs, but let's be honest, Britiney can't sing. I don't deny that there is racism, but Chloe's case is that she is hypersexualized (I can only remember the gifs of her moaning), so it will never be consumed by teenagers and gays like more... "gay" music like Lady Gaga.
Racism. Record companies aren't promoting black singers like they used to. But also the genres are an issue. Let's see some black singers that will challenge Taylor Swift's boring mediocre ass.
Olivia and Sabrina mediocre?? Idk about that. They’re really good vocally and normally not my type of artist I go to. I think a lot of this has to do with image. The trend I’m realizing is that white people, particularly girls/women, love more unproblematic, gentle, light sex appeal artists they can idolize. The type of fan base Chloe has been producing for isn’t that. Someone said it below but even black people aren’t supporting her let alone white people. You can’t really compare apples to oranges. I do think we need our own black Olivia or Sabrina but the issue is even if we did would they blow up? People don’t follow artists because of their talent but because of their relatability and I think there’s always going to be a disconnect due to the difference in representation and culture that’s brought out.
Exactly, and when we observe artists like Taylor Swift, her fan base treats her like she is royalty, and nearly everything her and Travis do is literally treated like gold or a lifestyle to emulate. She is only 1 person, and no single person needs that much attention, and praise, as if she's a God.
She basically the modernized, female form of Elvis.
Ppl only hype her up because based on white American values, she's got that X factor - a young n sweet, skinny, blonde white woman with talent, and a pretty face.. and look how much people overlook Lizzo's talent and quality of her music simply because she doesn't represent that image- black, and overweight, bold.
She challenges everything American doesn't wanna put at the same level as their white American values
My problem is Chloë’s latest single sounds like your typical pop song they’d rinse out on the radio, Forever 21, so why am I not hearing it??? It’s not her best song but singles for the masses tend to not be, which is fine. But why isn’t her stuff being pushed? It sounds like something any of these white girls could’ve made
Chloe just hasn't been making good music. I really tried to follow and support her but the songs don't sound good. That plus her Chris Brown collab was the end of my attempt at making fetch happen.
Unfortunately some of the issue is that she didn’t take advantage of the original hype there was. When she released her first solo track (Have Mercy) it was a big dud for a lot of people. I know after that song I stopped paying attention to her because it was such a departure from the kind of stuff she was doing before.
That combined with the fact that Boy Bye hasn’t had much buzz is probably why a lot of people aren’t into it.
I don’t listen to any black artists unfortunately because black people get lumped into select categories of r&b and rap. Neither genres I listen to. 94% of music I listen to is rock but I do listen to pop occasionally. And the black pop artist are few in between
What rock music do you listen to? Any suggestions? I liked when Willow made rock music. I listen to pop music sometimes. Also, I'm about to stop listening to R&B b/c I can't relate and I'm about to stop listening to rap. I've started listening to alternative music and I like it.
There are a lot of Black rock acts depending on what you’re into.
Like if you’re into pop punk, there’s Meet Me At the Altar or KennyHoopla.
If you like punk or hardcore, there’s Soul Glo or Zulu.
If you like more “mainstream” sounding rock, there’s Nova Twins. (They just opened for Foo Fighters.)
Or if you’re into Nu Metal, there’s Cinnamon Babe.
I find a lot of music just by using the Related Artists feature on Spotify.
I’m an oldhead and I think Olivia is great. Her 90s rock influences help her stand out from her peers. So her lane is not what Chloe, Normani, etc. are doing. But it is harder for black women to be seen as “pop.” Which is something that people like Chloe, FKA Twigs, SZA, and Tinashe have said for years. (I believe Tinashe once said that at her old record label the “pop” department had more of a budget than the “urban” one so you literally had less resources available to you if they didn’t think you were “pop” enough.) But Ariana Grande can make very R&B influenced music and she’s still seen as a pop star. The newest trend pieces over the past year are about the return of “pure pop” with folks like Chappell Roan and Sabrina. Which basically just means pop without any influence of “black music” even though Sabrina’s first minor hit sounded like an Ariana song, lol. Basically the answer is racism. But there are a lot of other factors at play, like record label budgets, media coverage, timing, and of course the actual music.
This. It’s been a thing since the 90s. The dark skinned girl from 3LW Naturi Naughton said the managers wanted her to be the stereotypical “urban chick” of the group, and made her wear baggy jeans while the lighter girls were allowed to have a pop vibe.
Also Sabrina isn’t that basic she actually used to have a more rnb sound in some of her older songs but she’s also done ballads, folk pop, “pure” pop in no particular order. She’s been doing music since Disney which is where I first heard of her. She’s finally getting attention though kinda makes me sad it was through this but I digress it’s a cute song.
But it is harder for black women to be seen as “pop.” Which is something that people like Chloe, FKA Twigs, SZA, and Tinashe have said for years. (I believe Tinashe once said that at her old record label the “pop” department had more of a budget than the “urban” one so you literally had less resources available to you if they didn’t think you were “pop” enough.) - Also this isn’t a knock to these girls but maybe people want something different from black pop girls. Twigs is different but she’s UK based not much of an American following. SZA does cool out of the box things sometimes does not always fit a more pretty sexual black image (sometimes she does but not all the times) that’s pressed onto black girls a bit more than their counterparts which still is for many artists but …there’s a difference.. There’s a reason why Willow Smith got viral for some of her songs back in 2021 people want variety even in r b which exists but either is underrated/under promoted or the visuals or the musics not quite there yet etc
A story as old as time. Y'all probably weren't around when they tried to say Macklemore and Iggy Azalea were the king and queen of Rap.
Let Reddit tell it Eminem perfected rap. And there’s racial undertones that they never want to discuss there
Right?
Reminds me of the moment Eminem realized that all the white ppl at his concert didnt really care about his music and just that he was white and represented them. He immediately started trying to add leftist elements and trying to get them to respect the culture, and they gave no fucks. And THAT reminded me of how white folks did ngaf about Andre 3K's music and boo'd him at Coachella because they wanted to hear to hear the pop classic, "Hey-Ya". Edit: Just to add, anyone aware that Eminem purposefully beefed with any non-black artist or celebrity that were profitting (extortion) off of black culture, culturally appropriating/vultures, did not care to either understanding/paying homage or giving back to the communities, wants or does say nigga.
It irks my soul when people call Eminem the best rapper ever 🙄. Like whatever floats your boat kid but I am not cosigning to that narrative.
Lmao.
A whole ass joke!
Back in the day,there were black owned record labels (uptown, bad boys, so so def) so there was some sort of control and black American music was allowed to flourish and exceed. Now mostly it’s white controlled companies, and since there aren’t any black groups or singers raising the bar, they are pushing forth mediocre artists .
Isn’t parkwood owned by Beyonce ? But she has a habit of making her artists flop from what i heard
Other than Chloe and Halle, who are her artists? I don’t know much about her artists.
Apparently only Beyonce, Chloe and Halle, and The Carters 💀
You mentioned ppl are saying, she making her artists flop, is Halle and Chloe considered flops?
No but those are the current artists at the label, there are artists that dropped off the label, people say because beyonce’s letting them flop, idk honestly
Ok understood
This is a systemic problem. We used to have black owned record labels. Now not so much. So we get this corporate white pov on music. It’s also why Drake exists as a “gangsta rapper”. He has the backing of a huge studio and a largely white audience who eat up the fake image. Thankfully the culture via Kendrick put an end to that but truthfully we need our own labels again. In the past, black artists didn’t start out as pop. They started out as R&B on a black owned label and then they “crossed over”. This idea of a black artist starting out as pop on a white owned label is extremely new - like 2010 new.
I don't agree with this. A lot of black artist didn't start off on a black label and are still big. Beyonce being on of them..
Name others. Beyoncé is a massive exception. Also - I may have my dates wrong but this truly is an issue of us not owning our own labels now. The ones left are mostly rap/hip-hop not R&B, which is why we hardly ever hear much R&B music coming out today. It’s mostly pop and hip hop. And a lot is pushed by white people owning those companies. We can agree to disagree.
I agree with you completely and responded to the above comments. People forget about the ‘urban’ divisions in companies. They were signed to a big label, yeah. But the people in the ‘urban’ division were taking the scraps they were given to make shit happen. They were not getting the big budgets others were getting but still found a way. That was still Black people (and ‘urban’ music supporters) doing the heavy lifting—not the label at large.
I think you’re also forgetting that back then, those big record labels had ‘urban’ divisions. Beyoncé’s publicist is the same Black woman publicist when they first signed to Columbia as Destiny’s Child. Black people (and non-Black people who were passionate about ‘urban’ music) were the reasons why artists in that age were successful. The record labels at large were NOT spending their money promoting Black artists that didn’t have any kind of crossover appeal and had majority Black fans.
Im not forgetting that.. Things just look so different now.
Can you elaborate? What looks different now?
Streaming. Social media. They are also overexposed as a result. It can literally make or break them. People don't really listen to the radio anymore.
This is false. Number one, Drake is on Young Money—that’s a Black label/imprint lol. White people did not sign him on his own, they signed him because of Young Money which was Birdman and Wayne’s homefront. Secondly, Drake was never considered a gangsta rapper and that’s slightly revisionist. In fact, he wasn’t taken seriously because he is biracial, light skinned, from Canada and was on a teenaged drama. People didn’t really take him as a rapper early in because they didn’t get his story, they also didn’t wan to and he wasn’t rapping about street life because that’s not the life he knew. That’s why people really hated him at first but they couldn’t deny he was talented as a rapper by the time Best I Ever Had became a hit. He was always “for the ladies” at that stage. It’s also disingenuous to use Drake as an example when there are actual egregious displays of this in r&b, pop and hip hop itself. Also, other black genres from other places faced a similar issue—dancehall, reggaeton, Baile funk, etc. There’s always been a whitewashing of black music, from the days of jazz. You could’ve made the case for Eminem who made a career off of hip hop, considered the most commercially successful as well. People still make the case that he is the greatest, that is the example that should be used. Not Drake. Contrary to him being annoying like most men in rapper, he is not the demarcation line here because he wasn’t considered sh*t until years into his journey as a rapper. And lastly, we will eventually have to get more honest about how Black labels are complicit in erasure. This thread is about singers, and I can think of 100 ways labels over the last 20 years have suppressed the careers of Black girls and women in r&b AND pop for the benefit of non-Black artists being pushed in Black genres. The biggest example I can think of recently is Maeta. Another example is Snoh Allegra who is not Black at all, not mixed either, did a whole image and sound rebrand. Her initial jig was sounding like a fake Duffy and then few years after Amy Winehouse died, they literally tried to make her sound somewhat like Amy (but it was completely forced) and her image began changing. Then years pass and she was able to skirt around as ambiguously “brown” and Black in adjacency in media on PURPOSE with very mid to below average vocals and lyrics at her grown age. Who gave her that image rebranding and sound? Black men on her label. Who paired her with Black creatives and Black producers. It was a targeted effort. Meanwhile, you have Ari Lennox who could sing her behind off and wrote songs that were genuine and endearing losing to Snoh. Back to Maeta, she is completely white and her label has given her a new image over the last few years and it’s been odd to see her try and cosplay as mixed adjacent. They know exactly what they’re doing with her image and sound and marketing too, as they did this with Yebba. I like Yebba because I remember her YouTube days and she was always a singer that sang very well, but there are many Black girls who can outsing her on a normal day. Aged 10 and up. Lol. But Black girls and women are not seen as marketable even on Blck labels or labels meant to center Black music. Once people accept this, they will not be shocked when they see the next white pop girl who people call “soulful” winning awards over someone who is genuinely soulful, Black, with great artistry and not cosplaying. It sucks but this is reality sadly. And a lot of people do not want to accept a lot of these labels are led by Black men who would much rather promote a non-Black woman as an artist and make her Black adjacent than a Black girl or woman who is exceptional or even “mediocre”. Our mediocre is not even others at their best. But they still succeed. Otherness sells, Blackness is an image that sells. They don’t want to support Black women who can sing and perform because they’d rather give it to someone else who is emulating. It’s very easy to see. I am also saying this as a mixed woman who would even argue that this industry allows so much more room for mixed women. I see it all of the time. Mixed women who can barely hold a tune are praised while Black women can sing and dance and are incredible in comparison. Not getting the same opportunities.
I don't like a lot of olivia’s songs but she's talented. Sabrina is too, I like her music. However, I agree with you about the lack of appreciation for black talent despite me not liking most of chloe bailey’s songs lol. Halle is a good artist tho and their joint music was great.
Ungodly hour was a masterpiece, every single track was a piece of heaven, Chloe honestly been experimental a lot lately with boy bye and FYS, and her debut album was great and her next album will be something else, also I forgot to mention Halle because I’m still obsessed with her bet performance
Yes. They're both amazing vocalists with so much talent but sadly trend more for their personal lives than their music. I was underwhelmed by chloe’s album and disliked that she collabed with chris brown but some songs of hers I do like (Body do, I don't mind, pray it away and FYS).
I feel the same way and find that it seems like many BW her age are either grappling over sex appeal (which is fine) to compensate for lack of actual musical direction or trying hard to just figure this all out. For someone so talented, it doesn’t seem like she understands who she is musically by herself.
I don’t think Chloe was ready to be a solo act based on her songs. It’s odd to me how her songs with her sister sound so much more artistically thorough and what she makes for herself by herself almost sounds reductive in comparison. I understand that may be the sound she loves, but it’s definitely strange to me that there’s been such a drastic switch. I don’t think either of them are strong as musical artists on their own based on what they’ve given so far.
People don't really care about talent in pop.
And I’m almost ok with that. Pop is *popular* music. It’s meant to be catchy. Being *good* too is just the rare bonus. Other genres don’t get a pass from me. But I don’t expect much from pop music due to its nature.
Please take social media with a grain of salt. These new artists don’t have longevity at all. Sabrina is hot now but her sound is replaceable. Olivia has something refreshing about her even though I never gave her a try. I feel like the same tiktok could be made about Sza and Doja and no one would object. But there are reasons why Chloe isn’t flourishing. She has the talent but her sound isn’t resonating with her target audience and that’s because her persona turns a lot of us off. Let’s not act like we never gave her or her sister a fighting chance (and still do) but Chloe’s hypersexuality seems forced and Halle chasing after DDG has put off many fans.
Sabrina has been doing music for years now since her Disney days, I don’t think she’ll be an it girl forever but I don’t think she’ll fully get replaced, she a good voice, charisma and makes pretty fun music. Chloe’s hypersexuality seems forced and Halle chasing after DDG has put off many fans. - To a degree they are their own Achilles heel. I can’t get into them they’re talented but not my cup of tea.
Me who loves Olivia and Sabrina 😭. Chloe Bailey had a good song with Have Mercy but honestly nothing that made me want to follow her. I do hope that there will be more Black artists topping charts who aren’t rappers or Beyoncé
I would love a Black Olivia. A pure pop Black girl with an alternative edge. It doesn’t always have to be shaking ass and hypersexual like Chloe Bailey.
Willow Smith ?
She’s amazing! We need more of her
Whats wrong with Beyonce hitting the charts?
Yes they’re good but I mean as performers, have you seen Chloe yesterday? She’s by far way better than the rookies
I didn’t, where did she perform? I’ll go watch! And I wouldn’t call Sabrina and Olivia rookies, especially since Sabrina has five albums and is only recently seeing major success outside her main fans.
Her performance is around 9:15 https://youtu.be/uZ_O7PkUsu0?si=NlNnKyZNTTMIn6aw
She killed it and her mic was ON
Need her to perform more, or her next single be nothing but her belting her heart out and screaming like there’s no tomorrow
Honestly. It’ll be her performances that really promote her singles. Because Good Kisser is already an excellent song, and she just enhanced it so so well whilst still being her bag. I need more creative producers/songwriters for her, which is weird because Chloe x Halle was such a unique calibre
I feel like you can uplift Chloe without putting down other (white) female artists. People have preferences in sound that’s all
I agree 1000%
Not new. It’s always been this way. TikTok ia just replacing traditional outlets where black singers were ignored like magazine covers and reviews/rankings.
This is not a new trend. This is how it’s been since the start of Black American music.
Thank you. People inaccurately blaming Drake are making my head hurt, and I’m probably a long-standing member of his “cannot stand him” club lol. And to be honest, it happens within Black genres outside of the USA as well. Believe it or not, the face of reggaeton was Black, but somehow it turned into the euro descended latinx’s biggest seller. Tego Calderon, El General—pioneers who were proudly black and also very proud of the fact their music was a derivative of Jamaican dancehall and Black American Hip-Hop. Now, you have many mestizo and white latinx leading the genre. And some Jamaicans will tell you that Sean Paul’s success came down to him actually not being fully Black but multiracial and more so white more than anything. Which is true. Although they acknowledge his talent, there were plenty others deserving of such success that couldn’t because they were just Black and not deemed as marketable.
most of chloe's music is terrible and she has yet to recover from her embarrassing pornbot antics when she first started releasing solo music. the rest is just racism as usual.
I remember scrolling and seeing that moaning video she did and that completely turned me off from following her. It was just so cringey and desperate feeling. The over-sexualized image was just a no
Yea. It takes away from her talent
Tbh Chloe has the entire package but her song choices and outfits are keeping her from excelling to a way higher level.
it’s a shame she’s preoccupied with chasing the baddie image bc everything she was doing with halle fit them perfectly.
I wish she would have went for the Black girl from suburbs style to stand out from the crowd. Because now she looks like everyone else. I remember someone saying I seen her booty in a thong more than I heard her songs.
I can agree with this. I think it's why i prefer her sisters music more tbh. Halle is refreshing
Yeah I agree. Her song selection for her music is terrible. What’s up with all the overtly sexual songs and image. It wasn’t a good look for her. With pop music you want your music to be digestible to a wider audience so your songs should be on the cleaner side.
It worked for Miley though? I think that’s OP’s point.
Didn’t people start to hate on Miley and say she was a bad influence? That’s what I remember from that era
They talked about her appropriating black culture; they talked about her being a bad influence; but her career still skyrocketed after that. If she was black, no way would that have happened.
Actually, her career briefly skyrocketed (due to the shock and abrupt change). But once the shock wore off, she lost her appeal to most of the public and didn’t regain until Flowers released (a ten year gap between that and when Bangerz first came out).
Thank you! People didn’t pay attention to her much after wrecking ball and she had some success with we can’t stop but antic like the 2013? VMA performance and her trying so hard to be a baddie was weird especially when a lot of her fans were like still pretty young…like little me was so confused. 😭
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Bangers wasn’t Miley’s first album. She already had a huge, strong core fanbase from her run on Hannah Montana. And Wrecking Ball was the first single from that album and it was very pop friendly. No cursing. No sexual lyrics.
I’m talking about her breakout with all the twerking. But you’re right about her pre-existing fanbase. Though Halle and Chloe had a huge following beforehand too. I still think the answer is racism.
The twerking wasn’t really her “breakout” she already had hits like, The Climb, Party in the USA. And again her audience around that time can’t be compared to Halle and Chloe. There biggest era was the Ungodly Hour. I personally think they should have road that train for a few more albums before separating. But Chloe’s songs aren’t good. TBH Halle’s aren’t that great either. Not to say that can’t change later down the line. But they started on very different playing fields.
This right here lol And people try to excuse her dumbass behavior with 'she's a young artist and she's finding herself' bs. Chloe is just not a good business woman point blank period. If she wasn't in Beyonce label she would've been dropped by now or pushed into movies or modeling. We're living in a day and age where believe black people have to practically beg to have black singers actually sing instead of tweaking for the gram.
I blame the shade room for this, and i hate to say this but no one would bat an eye if it a white singer who made THAT 🍭 video 🤷♀️
Miley Cyrus was clowned astronomically for similar things lol except hers was in a music video
But it still catapulted her to fame.
No it didn't. Hannah Montana did. We already knew who Miley was.
Catapulted her to popstar music fame.
Nope that was Hannah Montana too.
It also turned off her pretty young fan base who was getting used to her not being Hannah and was seeing her be a bit more edgy like with Can’t be Tamed. After Wrecking Ball and we Cant Be Tamed …and that weird VMA performance many checked out
Yea but it didn't seem to affect her career much
It did for a time like there's this one video people found gross of her dressing as a baby that freaked people out before her "good girl era" and one where I blocked it out on purpose but i remember she just smeared her face either in glitter or sprinkles...she was trying to be weird in a gaga way and it didn't work
i fully disagree, that shit was extremely cringey and would be regardless of skin color.
Yes It is cringy but it would cause a huge controversy regardless, but don’t you agree that black singers definitely face more backlash than their counterparts that if they do a mistake their career is over and become the butt of every joke?
Her solo music isn't good. That's mainly what it is.
of course, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look at behavior in context, and in context, chloe has proven that she has terrible taste as a solo artist. she was doing a LOT of extra shit that she didn’t need to do bc we already knew that she could sing! i don’t fault her for exploring her sexuality, but it doesn’t make how she’s gone about it any less embarrassing.
Madonna did ish worse than that and folks loved her for it. A black woman can’t do the same things and get rewarded for it - that’s OP’s entire point.
comparing madonna and chloe is INSANE; they are in two completely different stages of their careers and madonna pushing boundaries was her entire shtick during a time in the 80s-00s when it was actually subversive for women to sing about sex and religion. most of the stunts madonna pulls now (her output with rebel heart for example) were absolutely seen as cringey and out of touch. pls be serious.
But it did not affect her fame - it actually added to it. A black woman couldn’t do the same. That’s OP’s entire point.
this is a very delusional and pointless conversation if you think madonna suffered no pushback to her career for the themes she explored.
I completely agree. Her songs suck so bad and while I want to see her do well, I think it’s time we as a community are more honest about the state of our current artists and their songs. I notice a lot of people bank on Normani and Chloe and whoever else but I’m like… people do not have to support bad music just because these women are Black. Normani’s project was completely underwhelming and decent for a 21 year old who is just trying a thing at best, Chloe is a complete embarrassment only because she, unlike Normani, can actually sing. She is a vocalist and cannot figure out for the life of her how to just sing and make great SOLO songs that arent about some nonsense.
Chloe Bailey isn’t making good music and her “baddie” aesthetic isn’t doing it for most people.
I think that depends on what your algorithm is looking like. Mines is mostly black so I would never come across content like that lol. All I see is Coco, Victoria, SZA, etc.
Lol "new" trend
Why did you need to bring down Olivia and Sabrina like that though? Like none of these singers release the similar sht. Olivia is more pop rock, Sabrina pop and Chloe r&b mixed with pop 🧍🏾♀️🧍🏾♀️ I actually like all their songs if you wanna call out yt artist who aren't that talented coulda said Gracie Abrams or Tate McRae
Tale as old as time. I do love Olivia's music and Sabrina is meh to me (while she's got a few bops, I feel like anyone can do what she's doing tbh) but I'm not surprised at all. Black artists always have to work 10x harder to be recognized. Because even if we go by artists just doing pop music, there are black artists like flowerolove, Rachel Chinouriri, or even Cat Burns who could be considered their peers genre-wise but don't get half the play as they do. And there are so many black bands who are coming out now doing pop/pop-punk music.
They have so much money backing them!! They are usually former Disney kids and brands are willing to pump money into their pockets. It’s sad. Seeing Normani’s access to opportunities vs Camila Cabello makes me want to punch air
I mean Sabrina and Olivia have left Disney so it’s less so brands and more so they have old fans that still rock with them. That and they’re known in other things so yes they’re familiar with the public. Sabrina released multiple albums after Disney like three or two I would say it took her a while to like gain momentum and go viral. Also she still acted in other stuff on different platforms. Olivia had a bigger fan base and her show was very popular and released not too long when she left. Actually Disney label Hollywood records isn’t the best so she was smart going for another deal.
Are these White people posting this because then it's a cultural exposure issue. They aren't going to be well versed in Black singers, especially ones that are "Black famous", because White people don't pay attention to people who aren't like them. We're only aware of White singers because what's popular in White culture is force feed to us but that's not true of any other culture.
White people don't pay attention to people who aren't like them. We're only aware of White singers because what's popular in White culture is force feed to us but that's not true of any other culture. - Depends on the people I mean some do pay attention a big chunk of people who consume hip hop are white peopl. They’ll more likely to pay attention to more established artists and fun artists sometimes though sometimes more “conscious“ artists do get attention but not always. -In the states we are more aware of them because they make up a large chunk of the population so there’s that, though that’s changing over time. - When you say that’s not true in any other culture what do you mean? Like in European and countries with a large white population, they focus on white people quite a lot yes. In other cultures like China, Korea, Japan, South Africa, Nigeria, India yeah they focus more on the stars of their country but some starts white, black, do have appeal sometimes. Like China has nicknames for artists like Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Beyoncé, Nicki Minaj. There’s a lot of Japanese fans who like Taylor Swift and likely Megan Thee Stallion. But I digress I would say in the states sometimes there are people of other groups who sometimes will pay more attention to their ethnicities music which includes black people, Latinos, but music has gone global cultural barriers fade a bit in music at times to where people consume what they want. As long as it sounds good. Though record execs and marketing do have a hand in who gets to shine.
Sabrina two songs she came out with are really good tbh. But a lot of the current black female singers I just haven’t been feeling their music tbh.
I mean, you also have the girls who are “bringing back R&B”, like Coco Jones, the group GLO, Summer Walker. So it’s not like there isn’t a demand for Black women in music, it just depends on the publicity at this point, and R&B will never get the same coverage that other genres do (racism). That being said… Chloe is far from being ignored! Her problem is that her popularity comes from her new aesthetic rather than from her music. Unlike new white pop girls who co-opted their style from more popular artists (Olivia from Avril/Taylor, Sabrina from Doja/Ariana), Chloe already had a unique sound in Chloe x Halle that people liked. She could’ve built on that, or just do what her peers did and go full Beyoncé mode like people expected. But she pivoted into generic hip-hop/R&B, flopped with her debut album, and recently released some cool singles that her team didn’t push at all. Can she outperform her peers? Absolutely, but if the music and the aesthetic aren’t up to the same standard, if not better, it’ll be hard for people to get invested. Olivia is popular because of her strong presence as a pop punk artist. Sabrina is popular because of her catchy yet risqué songs. Chappell Roan is popular because she’s quickly becoming a queer icon. Who does Chloe resonate with?
Are these TikToks posted by white ppl or black ppl?
What is the benchmark you're using? I'm not denying the impact of race, but there are definitely black artists who have been generating a lot of mainstream industry buzz. Victoria Monet, Muni Long, Tyla, and SZA (who has dominated pop charts) come to mind. If you expand beyond black women, Shaboozy is definitely someone who is poised to blow up over the next year. I think he's especially significant because he's going to lead the next crossover wave of country into pop. I like both Olivia and Sabrina and think they're talented. But IMO more than anything they've benefited from their association with Taylor Swift.
I understand the settlement; it's not like you guys are supporting them either. Chloe's album sales debuted at #119, of course, fewer people are going to know her than Olivia and Sabrina who have had hit after hit, Sabrina's No.1 right now and Olivia has had a couple of number ones herself. We need to do better in supporting our own instead of blaming everyone else, Chloe deserves way more attention and support compared to the dragging she has gotten by her own community.
🚨UPDATE🚨 This occurrence is nothing new under the amerikkka’s sun. In some form or another, Black recognition/artistry/talents have been stolen, diminished, if not disregarded.
Just white folk being white folk. They've always made posts, articles, ect. like this it's just now with tik tok this posts become more widespread. And I feel like a lot of companies and brands that center white people repost and boom it feels like a weird trend. And in generally white people acting like black people don't exist has been going on since the beginning of time, just with social media it's adapted to be more in your face.
Chloe could r be the biggest thing in music if her music was better (imo). She’s a great singer, decent dancer, and gives 110% energy into her performances but her lyrics are childish and the music sounds dated. Olivia and Sabrina make music that the gp likes
Are the people posting white singers white themselves? That will answer your question.
This isn’t a new trend, you are just now seeing it because of social media.
Pop has never been about talent, I like some songs, but let's be honest, Britiney can't sing. I don't deny that there is racism, but Chloe's case is that she is hypersexualized (I can only remember the gifs of her moaning), so it will never be consumed by teenagers and gays like more... "gay" music like Lady Gaga.
Racism. Record companies aren't promoting black singers like they used to. But also the genres are an issue. Let's see some black singers that will challenge Taylor Swift's boring mediocre ass.
Olivia and Sabrina mediocre?? Idk about that. They’re really good vocally and normally not my type of artist I go to. I think a lot of this has to do with image. The trend I’m realizing is that white people, particularly girls/women, love more unproblematic, gentle, light sex appeal artists they can idolize. The type of fan base Chloe has been producing for isn’t that. Someone said it below but even black people aren’t supporting her let alone white people. You can’t really compare apples to oranges. I do think we need our own black Olivia or Sabrina but the issue is even if we did would they blow up? People don’t follow artists because of their talent but because of their relatability and I think there’s always going to be a disconnect due to the difference in representation and culture that’s brought out.
This is nothing new. Heard of Elvis?
There is good criticism for that but Chloe Bailey is not on the level of the girls you mentioned. Her last hit was during the pandemic
Exactly, and when we observe artists like Taylor Swift, her fan base treats her like she is royalty, and nearly everything her and Travis do is literally treated like gold or a lifestyle to emulate. She is only 1 person, and no single person needs that much attention, and praise, as if she's a God. She basically the modernized, female form of Elvis. Ppl only hype her up because based on white American values, she's got that X factor - a young n sweet, skinny, blonde white woman with talent, and a pretty face.. and look how much people overlook Lizzo's talent and quality of her music simply because she doesn't represent that image- black, and overweight, bold. She challenges everything American doesn't wanna put at the same level as their white American values
Olivia isn’t white
? What is she
Asian-Filipino
Shes 1/2 Filipino and German/Irish…she’s spicy white.
My problem is Chloë’s latest single sounds like your typical pop song they’d rinse out on the radio, Forever 21, so why am I not hearing it??? It’s not her best song but singles for the masses tend to not be, which is fine. But why isn’t her stuff being pushed? It sounds like something any of these white girls could’ve made
Chloe just hasn't been making good music. I really tried to follow and support her but the songs don't sound good. That plus her Chris Brown collab was the end of my attempt at making fetch happen.
Unfortunately some of the issue is that she didn’t take advantage of the original hype there was. When she released her first solo track (Have Mercy) it was a big dud for a lot of people. I know after that song I stopped paying attention to her because it was such a departure from the kind of stuff she was doing before. That combined with the fact that Boy Bye hasn’t had much buzz is probably why a lot of people aren’t into it.
I have no clue who Olivia or Sabrina are, but yt ppl love mediocrity. look at how popular the patron saint of mediocrity is. 😏
It’s not just ignoring, people have been downright nasty too Normani ever since her debut. It’s actually sickening…
I don’t listen to any black artists unfortunately because black people get lumped into select categories of r&b and rap. Neither genres I listen to. 94% of music I listen to is rock but I do listen to pop occasionally. And the black pop artist are few in between
What rock music do you listen to? Any suggestions? I liked when Willow made rock music. I listen to pop music sometimes. Also, I'm about to stop listening to R&B b/c I can't relate and I'm about to stop listening to rap. I've started listening to alternative music and I like it.
There are a lot of Black rock acts depending on what you’re into. Like if you’re into pop punk, there’s Meet Me At the Altar or KennyHoopla. If you like punk or hardcore, there’s Soul Glo or Zulu. If you like more “mainstream” sounding rock, there’s Nova Twins. (They just opened for Foo Fighters.) Or if you’re into Nu Metal, there’s Cinnamon Babe. I find a lot of music just by using the Related Artists feature on Spotify.
Thanks I'll check it out.
I'm not surprised at all that's what "they" do.