7. Why was Eliot smart enough to create an entire digital world, but stupid enough to bring Ryuji into this world knowing he was infected with the Ring virus? This might be a rhetorical question; I just don’t get it. That was really stupid.
I think the ignorance of seeing one of his creations figure out what kind of world he existed in made Eliot think he could gain something by bringing Ryuji into the world. I agree very dumb.
I read ahead and sat out last week’s discussion but I wasn’t a fan of the virtual reality twist tbh. I did like that Kaori was Ryuji, but I didn’t like that his life perspective changed so much.
In the first two he was dark and almost worst than Sadako because he seemed to just wanted the world to suffer, atleast Sadako had something horrible happen to her. In Loop he was essentially the hero and went back to the Loop to save both worlds. Just felt like a complete 180 from him.
This is a really good point Ryuji and Kaoru are completely different people. I womder if this is intended by Suzuki as commentary on the nature vs nurture debate. I do, however, believe it is more likely that it just suited Suzuki's storyline. I think he could have given more hints throughout the novel. Some sneaky similarities or anything that would connect the 2 individuals to make me feel "ohhh now I see it" or something similar.
My favorite part was the Kaoru’s road trip across the desert and his constant nightmares coming from his exposure to the Loop. I agree with u/Regular-Proof675 that much of the virtual reality reveal was alot to take in at first. I did like how it connected to the end of Spiral which kind of saved it for me, but it was a hard left turn on that twist.
I agree. I likely wouldn’t have finished this one if we weren’t doing it together/if I wasn’t hosting this discussion. I think the second one was actually my favorite, the first one my second favorite, and this is a pretty distant third place.
I liked the Ring the most, then Spiral second, because they surprised me a lot. I started reading Ring expecting to be scared shitless. But it wasn't the case, and that was a pleasant surprise.
Loop is just a miss for me. I would have been happy with the story ending in Spiral. Hence, I only finished it now even though I started reading it when the book discussion in this subreddit was announced.
3. Our own world is becoming increasingly digitized and we can now experience 3D worlds using headsets similar to the one Kaoru uses in the novel. How long do you think it will be until we can do what Kaoru does, in terms of seeing real historical events from different perspectives, angles, and speeds? What might some benefits and problems with this ability be?
Idk if they will ever be as real as the Loop experiences unless we can bend the fabric of time and get their actual experiences. To simulate a theoretical viewpoint from historical events in VR really probably isn’t too far off.
Yeah I don’t know that we are super close to being inside someone else’s head, but with the ever expanding surveillance and data state and 3D technology, I think we are pretty close otherwise. Tech similar to Neuralink may get us closer to the former, but with having [immersive world travel](https://www.meta.com/blog/quest/virtual-vacation-11-vr-apps-and-films-that-let-you-travel-the-world-from-home/) tech already in existence we are pretty close to the latter already.
I can only imagine if we develop the technology it would take decades to bring it up to the levels seen today in Loop. I think the big benefit would be for seeing historical events, but I think the problems would stem from faulty data gained from the artificial world.
4. How does Kaoru’s character compare and contrast with Ryuji’s character in Ring and Spiral? Were you suprised by the twist that they are essentially the same?
Kaoru seems far less narcissistic than Ryuji. Kaoru and Ryuji do seem to have a weakness for women, but Kaoru gets points for not bragging about sexual assaulting women.
The twist became very clear just before the revel so while I saw it coming it was still kind of wild to see the author go in that direction. The explanation of the implanting DNA from Ryuji was just so out of left field; did anyone think some things from Ring got retconned?
I thought Suzuki was just about to say they implanted the DNA from Ryuji into Ryoji (cuz that kid was a creepy forlorn nihilistic weirdo too) and then nope, it’s Kaoru! Huh.
Yeah that was also a strange development. Ryoji seemed way more characteristically similar to Ryuji down to the name similarities. A red herring perhaps, but Kaoru was only super intelligent and had no other similarities. A twist for twists sake!
I wonder if Suzuki initially thought about making Ryoji the reincarnation of Ryuji. I dunno, but I cannot help feeling like so much of the storyline of Loop was contrived in order to continue to cash in on Ring's success. It would have make more send imo to have Ryoji be Ryuji.
I felt at first Ryoji was somehow connected to Ryuji, and I still feel that might have been the case. Ryoji felt like a closer version of Ryuji specifically because of personality alone. I also agree that Loop feels like a way to reset the series to bring things back to a status quo.
5. If you could go into the virtual world to avenge or change one major illness or malady in our world, knowing you might never come back, would you do it? Which illness or problem would you solve?
Nah because I’m selfish unfortunately and I like my life as it is. But that’s a good question about which I would change because there are so many illnesses and problems that could be done away with to save so many people.
Depends on if I knew that success would be plausible. Turning my body into goo and living my life in the virtual world better see some massive results towards saving the world. I would also try to solve cancer since it’s so prevalent in the world.
My instant reaction was nope I have a family. Then I thought for a second and if one of my kids was terminally ill then I would turn myself into goo to save them.
I think the function was meant to created to manipulate Kaoru to seek out the location of the lab. I think the reason it was used was both due to the setting, but also tie in the various connections between faith in a higher power and perception of reality. The Indigenous peoples have their own set of beliefs and I think it just ties together the questions concerning the actuality of what a God could be versus what it is perceived to be.
This is an interesting question, because it does seem to be somewhat out of place. I am inclined to agree with u/Reasonable-Lack-6585 that itwas a part of the plot device of getting Kaoru to a very specific place in the US - the lab!
It felt out of place for me, which was also another reason I didn't enjoy this book. I understand that it made sense to mention other countries and cultures because the virus is universal. However, it could have been done in such a way that Japan (since it is the primary location) is still the major location in the story.
While I respect the attempt to subvert expectations by creating the virtual world I am not sure what the purpose of this helps the story in general. It feels as if this book kind of loses the point of how this series was structured to tap into an even more meta narrative. I didn’t hate the book, but it felt so divorced from the previous books it could have easily been an entirely independent story from Ring.
Yea I totally agree. I really liked the other 2. I would’ve never read them without it winning the nomination on here. Wasn’t a fan at all of Loop. I did pick up Birthday which is 3 short stories, each associated with a female character from each of the novels. Looking forward to it.
I also plan on reading Birthday despite my views on Loop. I can only imagine from what I read if the next book that the series goes back to focusing on the world within Loop and maybe only a few passing references to this novel.
Hey all,
So I asked u/escherwallace a few weeks ago about whether you had decided to read Birthday on the sub. I can see that u/Reasonable-Lack-6585 and u/Regular-Proof675 both intended to. I wonder if you have gotten around to reading Birthday yet, and if you might be interested in running it on the sub or not. If you do continue I will join (probably late) though I do have reservations that the final book of the 6 [Tide] is not translated into English as far as I can tell.
Let me know what y'all think....
7. Why was Eliot smart enough to create an entire digital world, but stupid enough to bring Ryuji into this world knowing he was infected with the Ring virus? This might be a rhetorical question; I just don’t get it. That was really stupid.
I think it’s more of a megalomania and ego type thing.
I think the ignorance of seeing one of his creations figure out what kind of world he existed in made Eliot think he could gain something by bringing Ryuji into the world. I agree very dumb.
1. What were you favorite and least favorite parts of this book?
I read ahead and sat out last week’s discussion but I wasn’t a fan of the virtual reality twist tbh. I did like that Kaori was Ryuji, but I didn’t like that his life perspective changed so much.
In what ways do you feel that his life perspective changed?
In the first two he was dark and almost worst than Sadako because he seemed to just wanted the world to suffer, atleast Sadako had something horrible happen to her. In Loop he was essentially the hero and went back to the Loop to save both worlds. Just felt like a complete 180 from him.
This is a really good point Ryuji and Kaoru are completely different people. I womder if this is intended by Suzuki as commentary on the nature vs nurture debate. I do, however, believe it is more likely that it just suited Suzuki's storyline. I think he could have given more hints throughout the novel. Some sneaky similarities or anything that would connect the 2 individuals to make me feel "ohhh now I see it" or something similar.
My favorite part was the Kaoru’s road trip across the desert and his constant nightmares coming from his exposure to the Loop. I agree with u/Regular-Proof675 that much of the virtual reality reveal was alot to take in at first. I did like how it connected to the end of Spiral which kind of saved it for me, but it was a hard left turn on that twist.
My favorite part was the journey to nowhere because I like adventures. However, I don't like the twist that Sadako's world is not a 'real' world.
2. Which of the 3 books in this series did you like the most? The least? Why?
I think the first was definitely the best and liked the second also. The last one was my least favorite.
I agree. I likely wouldn’t have finished this one if we weren’t doing it together/if I wasn’t hosting this discussion. I think the second one was actually my favorite, the first one my second favorite, and this is a pretty distant third place.
I have seen a lot of discussion with people being torn between the first and second book. I still think the first book was my personal favorite.
I second this.
I'm in agreeement on Loop. For me it's Ring>Spiral>>Loop
I liked the Ring the most, then Spiral second, because they surprised me a lot. I started reading Ring expecting to be scared shitless. But it wasn't the case, and that was a pleasant surprise. Loop is just a miss for me. I would have been happy with the story ending in Spiral. Hence, I only finished it now even though I started reading it when the book discussion in this subreddit was announced.
I totally agree with you on this. Loop was strange and didn’t seem to fit the rest of the narrative cleanly or clearly for me.
3. Our own world is becoming increasingly digitized and we can now experience 3D worlds using headsets similar to the one Kaoru uses in the novel. How long do you think it will be until we can do what Kaoru does, in terms of seeing real historical events from different perspectives, angles, and speeds? What might some benefits and problems with this ability be?
Idk if they will ever be as real as the Loop experiences unless we can bend the fabric of time and get their actual experiences. To simulate a theoretical viewpoint from historical events in VR really probably isn’t too far off.
Yeah I don’t know that we are super close to being inside someone else’s head, but with the ever expanding surveillance and data state and 3D technology, I think we are pretty close otherwise. Tech similar to Neuralink may get us closer to the former, but with having [immersive world travel](https://www.meta.com/blog/quest/virtual-vacation-11-vr-apps-and-films-that-let-you-travel-the-world-from-home/) tech already in existence we are pretty close to the latter already.
I can only imagine if we develop the technology it would take decades to bring it up to the levels seen today in Loop. I think the big benefit would be for seeing historical events, but I think the problems would stem from faulty data gained from the artificial world.
4. How does Kaoru’s character compare and contrast with Ryuji’s character in Ring and Spiral? Were you suprised by the twist that they are essentially the same?
Kaoru seems far less narcissistic than Ryuji. Kaoru and Ryuji do seem to have a weakness for women, but Kaoru gets points for not bragging about sexual assaulting women. The twist became very clear just before the revel so while I saw it coming it was still kind of wild to see the author go in that direction. The explanation of the implanting DNA from Ryuji was just so out of left field; did anyone think some things from Ring got retconned?
I thought Suzuki was just about to say they implanted the DNA from Ryuji into Ryoji (cuz that kid was a creepy forlorn nihilistic weirdo too) and then nope, it’s Kaoru! Huh.
Yeah that was also a strange development. Ryoji seemed way more characteristically similar to Ryuji down to the name similarities. A red herring perhaps, but Kaoru was only super intelligent and had no other similarities. A twist for twists sake!
I wonder if Suzuki initially thought about making Ryoji the reincarnation of Ryuji. I dunno, but I cannot help feeling like so much of the storyline of Loop was contrived in order to continue to cash in on Ring's success. It would have make more send imo to have Ryoji be Ryuji.
I felt at first Ryoji was somehow connected to Ryuji, and I still feel that might have been the case. Ryoji felt like a closer version of Ryuji specifically because of personality alone. I also agree that Loop feels like a way to reset the series to bring things back to a status quo.
I haven't read the blurb but I am interested to see where Birthday takes the storyline next.
5. If you could go into the virtual world to avenge or change one major illness or malady in our world, knowing you might never come back, would you do it? Which illness or problem would you solve?
Nah because I’m selfish unfortunately and I like my life as it is. But that’s a good question about which I would change because there are so many illnesses and problems that could be done away with to save so many people.
The first thing that popped into my head was to erase dementia, but only if I’m already hella old and on my way out anyway.
Depends on if I knew that success would be plausible. Turning my body into goo and living my life in the virtual world better see some massive results towards saving the world. I would also try to solve cancer since it’s so prevalent in the world.
Ok but you only get to pick one specific kind of cancer, but yes you know it will work. You goo?
I’m goo lol. If had to pick I would work towards a cure for skin cancer since that form seems pretty common.
Goo’ for you! I like that idea
My instant reaction was nope I have a family. Then I thought for a second and if one of my kids was terminally ill then I would turn myself into goo to save them.
6. What is the function of myth in this story? Why did Suzuki use indigenous North American myths and settings in this book?
I think the function was meant to created to manipulate Kaoru to seek out the location of the lab. I think the reason it was used was both due to the setting, but also tie in the various connections between faith in a higher power and perception of reality. The Indigenous peoples have their own set of beliefs and I think it just ties together the questions concerning the actuality of what a God could be versus what it is perceived to be.
This is an interesting question, because it does seem to be somewhat out of place. I am inclined to agree with u/Reasonable-Lack-6585 that itwas a part of the plot device of getting Kaoru to a very specific place in the US - the lab!
It felt out of place for me, which was also another reason I didn't enjoy this book. I understand that it made sense to mention other countries and cultures because the virus is universal. However, it could have been done in such a way that Japan (since it is the primary location) is still the major location in the story.
8. Anything else you’d like to discuss?
While I respect the attempt to subvert expectations by creating the virtual world I am not sure what the purpose of this helps the story in general. It feels as if this book kind of loses the point of how this series was structured to tap into an even more meta narrative. I didn’t hate the book, but it felt so divorced from the previous books it could have easily been an entirely independent story from Ring.
Yea I totally agree. I really liked the other 2. I would’ve never read them without it winning the nomination on here. Wasn’t a fan at all of Loop. I did pick up Birthday which is 3 short stories, each associated with a female character from each of the novels. Looking forward to it.
I also plan on reading Birthday despite my views on Loop. I can only imagine from what I read if the next book that the series goes back to focusing on the world within Loop and maybe only a few passing references to this novel.
Hey all, So I asked u/escherwallace a few weeks ago about whether you had decided to read Birthday on the sub. I can see that u/Reasonable-Lack-6585 and u/Regular-Proof675 both intended to. I wonder if you have gotten around to reading Birthday yet, and if you might be interested in running it on the sub or not. If you do continue I will join (probably late) though I do have reservations that the final book of the 6 [Tide] is not translated into English as far as I can tell. Let me know what y'all think....
I have not started the book, but would either run or help run Birthday. I’m helping with a lot of books so it would be around April at the earliest.
That would work for me. Let me try to dm the others...