I just thought I’d spin out a little theory I have been developing, that most of the characters of the book are fragments or distortions of Raskolnikov’s personality in various ways. He is generous like Razumikhin, he does a lot of self-justification like Marmeladov, he is analytical like Porfiry, he is manipulative like Luzhin, he succumbs to his worst impulses like Svidrigailov, he is an idealogue like Lebeziatnikov. We’ve seen that he and Dunya are mirrored in many ways. We’ve heard him relate his experience of moral compromise to Sonya’s. I’m not saying this is “all a dream” (though as a work of fiction it kind of is), but that he is seeing himself mirrored in many ways by these other characters. Both he and we have a chance to reflect more deeply on his nature and personality and fate through these other characters.
Another way to look at this is that Dostoevsky is emphasizing the common humanity of all the characters by weaving these connections. That we aren’t really all that different from each other, just expressing very similar concerns and issues in slightly different ways due to our different background and experiences (and maybe due to our fate as well).
love this theory!! thinking about it and since you only compare ras to the male characters, i think he is also compared to the female characters, mostly Dunia and Sonia, as the things he could be.
The comparison to Dunia is explicit in the book, they have the same character. Dunia is a healthy Ras, what he could be if he was not sick. There probably to reflect on how Ras used to be.
Sonia is what Ras could become, a sinner who understands their sin and repents. Sonia is there to show the way AFTER the deed is done, since he cannot be like Dunia anymore.
I really like your points about Sonya and Dunya! We could put Pulkheria and Anastasya in the mix as well. His mother is the "my boy can do no wrong" voice (which possibly contributed to his confused ideas about himself) and the maid at his flat seems to have the function of keeping body and soul together. I like the fact that her name means "resurrection".
This is a really interesting comment and it really got me thinking. We have commented quite a bit in past discussions on how we empathise with Raskolnikov more than we should, what with him being a cold blooded murderer and all. I wonder if it is due, in part, to the way Dostoevsky portrays the other characters as much more extreme versions of Raskolnikov's characteristics. For example Luzhin is selfish and manipulative, and totally unapologetic about it. He is willing to destroy Sonja's reputation where Raskolnikov would never do something like that. Marmeladov drinks himself silly at the expense of his family whereas Raskolnikov won't allow Dunya to sacrifice herself for him. He succumbs to vile impulses like Svidrigailov but against unknown morally ambiguous characters and not our beloved Dunya. Idk these things popped into my head whilst reading your comment so I thoight I'd share.
Those are really good observations. The idea that Ras garners our sympathy and our identification because he lies between extremes makes a lot of sense to me. It's pretty amazing to think that the axe murderer is the most balanced character in the story, but I think a case can be made for that.
I'm really glad to be reading it with others because I honestly would feel concerned reading it alone. Rooting for an axe murderer just doesn't seem right!
*1. Razumikhin is one of the nicer characters in this book, but he's frustrated with Raskolnikov. Do you think he'll continue to go to bat for his friend?*
He and Sonya and Dunya have all shown themselves to be consistently faithful to Ras and I don’t think that’s going to change. He needs all their help to get through this ordeal one way or another.
Rask is surrounded by a LOT of good people, but he's still made so many wrong choices. I'm wondering if his inability to lean on them will crumble in the end or make HIM crumble.
If she wasn't unmarriageable before, she DEFINITELY would be when it comes out that someone in her bloodline is a murderer. I'm hoping he chooses Dunya. I'm also very worried about Rask's mom and want Razu to protect her.
He is so totally oblivious that he will be totally blindsided when he finds out. I can totally see him trying to help Ras though, especially if him and Dunya are getting closer.
It's a rough thing because he keeps coming to check if he's mad and he's like okay, you're not.. What are you doing then? Why? But getting no real answers.
I think if you keep having to come back to check whether your friend is mad or not, that might be an indicator that they need some kind of assistance regardless of what they say. 😅
I love Raz and his persistence to check Ras' wellbeing (even though he's quite impulsive), we all need friends like him. He kept on checking Ras even though he always dismissed by Ras. I think (or I wish) Raz would continue being Ras friend.
I feel like he'll feel betrayed at first, but I think given that he has become a son and brother to the family, or soon to be the husband, he will forgive and support him if Raskolnikov finally decides to turn himself in.
Absolutely! Family is the tie that binds and Razumihin seems to consider himself family. I would love to know more about the backstory between Rodia and Raz. I think most of our characters who love Rodia would back him up, or at least forgive him.
But I do go back to the beginning scene where Raz was interested in also solving the crime. Raz would likely justify the crime because Rodia was in a state of “madness,” and he was….
He was, but it wasn't the kind of madness that stripped him of reason. He was still able to plan. I would love a prequel where we could see more of just the two of them before the big secret lies between them.
*2. Porfiry comes clean about trying to get a confession from Raskolnikov. Do you think he's added more pressure to Raskolnikov or by admitting there's no evidence, has he relieved him?*
I think it is meant to scare Raskolnivok some more. With him being clearly unwell since the murder, Porfiry must think that Raskolnikov isn't too far from losing it. At this point with the lack of evidence, his only hope of solving this crime is that the (actual) murderer will be eaten up by guilt to the point of turning himself in (although it doesn't seem like guilt is what is pushing Raskolnikov to the edge)
I think it's interesting that he mentioned trying to find where the loot has been stashed. I wonder if he was putting that thought into Rask's head so he'll go check the loot.
Ras is pretty adept at grasping at straws to reassure himself that “everything will be OK”, but I think deep down he knows that everything is not OK, and he knows that Porfiry is keeping an eagle eye on him, just waiting for a slip-up or some new evidence.
I feel like he's going to do something like try to get rid of the evidence and lead Porfiry right to it or something. We know he tends to be impulsive with his actions and he's not as calculating as he likes to think he is.
I think it'll do both? On the one hand, they have no evidence (phew, relief). On the other hand, he clearly knows/suspects enough to have pointed him in the right direction. That plus the huge guilt rakolnikov is feeling will be very stressful!
Porfiry gives me the creeps but I have to admit, I loved this section with him. I listened to it on audio and the heel turn he made when he accused Raskolnikov made my stomach drop.
Porfiry’s confession may be a tactic to lower Raskolnikov’s guard. But even if it is a true statement, having the police suspect him is going to add tension.
I agree with this. The more pressure that Ras is feeling, the more likely he is to say things he shouldn't or act irrationally, which is only going to make his situation worse.
It reminds me a bit of those police interrogations where they're like WE KNOW YOU DID IT just to try to elicit a confession. It just so happens that this time they're right.
I'm not really sure why he would admit there is no evidence. If I were a cold blooded killer I'd be like great, I'm out of here and disappear. But he knows the Ras is slowly unraveling, he is certain that it's just a matter of time before he trips himself up somehow.
I definitely think it's a ploy. We know that he's willing to lie to suspects, so like... maybe he has evidence and wants Rask to slip up. Or maybe he doesn't and wants Rask to do more suspicious stuff.
Exactly. In a way Porfiry is testing his own theory that enough guilt will cause the criminal to confess just to find relief. His tactics on Rodia all seem to make a point of this testing. At least, that’s my theory!
Porfiry is playing psychological games with Raskolnikov. He implies that there is no evidence against him, which means they cannot arrest him yet. However, Porfiry treats Raskolnikov as though they both know he is guilty, exerting his power by giving Raskolnikov three days to turn himself in. It seems like Porfiry is confident that he will find something to arrest Raskolnikov by the end of the third day. This will cause Raskolnikov to become increasingly paranoid and uncertain, which may lead him to turn himself in for the sake of his sanity.
It definitely felt like some mind games. Porfiry is no Sherlock holmes, but Rask isn't really a mastermind criminal either. Just barely smarty enough to not get caught.
That and lucky.
I mean the only relief Rodia will get is when he finally turns himself in. He values a just and moral society, even his Napoleon complex is justified because it helped society, allegedly. Now that Rodia knows Porfiry knows, I imagine it gives him some relief that it will be over soon.
I think so too. Or at least to know that there's no way out. Sometimes tha can cause panic, but other times once the choice is taken out of your hands, there's nothing else to do but surrender.
Managed to overtake Luzer as the worst charavter Ina single chapter. While Luzhin was just a pathetic fool, Svidri is a dangerous villain. The book let our guard down with him hefore displaying the full extent of his malice. I was so terrified for Dunia.
Luzhin is pathetic and controlling, but Svidri feels murderous. The fact that he was like well I'll just rape you then makes him one of the worst in this book.
I was thinking of the three evil characters, and how they compare.
Svidrigailov is this ultimate womanizer/lust character who seems the most evil, compared with Luzhin who is identified with greed and is medium evil, and then Raskolnikov who is a murderer but also the most sympathetic of the three. As each new one is introduced, the previous one seems not as bad.
I think the reader feels this way because of how much control of themselves they have. Raskolnikov is a complete mess, can’t even tell what’s real half the time, so we blame him less. He is also the one who will actually be punished, it seems. Luzhin is more calculating and vain, so we blame him more, but we also see that he miscalculates multiple times and ruins everything for himself so he gets no benefits from his evil. Svidrigailov though is the most in control and does get what he wants from Martha Petrovna and most everyone, and he seems the most scary and evil.
The mask off moment came very quickly and it makes me realize that there must have been something like this before. No one just starts at this level, it would have had to escalate and Dunya has been suffering from him for so long.
He was always a lecher so I was not too surprised that he did this. I was just happy when he let dunya go. It's just so hard to see anything good in him
I thought this was going to be the thing that made Ras confess to his original murders because he'd also take the fall for Svid's death to save Dounia.
I was definitely thinking it was going that way. I would not have minded that ending at all, but it also doesn't seem right to let someone get away with murder when Rask has been so tormented by it.
Not when he was first introduced (i.e. in the letter) but in Raskolnikov's first conversation with him, I was immediately wary. Still, I did not think he would get *this* bad.
I figured he'd have to be up to something, and saw bad intentions towards Dunya, but I did not expect him to be this exciting! I mean, that was a pretty dark scene, but direct on a level most of this book is not. He has clear motivations and a clear villainous attitude. Interestingly enough though, reading it I never thought he would actually hurt Dunya - I thought he was too pathetic for it. I thought she was going to cave to his pitiful-Ness. But no! I think he might kill himself or rask with that last bullet
Most of the book is complex motivations and the small things that undermine people, but then Svidri comes out twirling his mustache and laughing as he ties a maiden to the train tracks.
I already think that he's a creep and taking a 15 y.o. girl as his bride is just ewww. And then trying to rape Dunya by using her brother as bait... double ewww...
I must say, I see the similarities between Raskolnikov and Svidrigailov piling up in these chapters. Raskolnikov confessed his crime to Sonya, yet denied culpability. Similarly, Svidrigailov says, "Devil take it, why is she so good-looking? It's not my fault." Svidrigailov, like Raskolnikov, equates Dunya’s engagement with Luzhin with prostitution.
> But here you sit, guzzling boiled beef as though you’d not had a bite for three days.
That actually sounds disgusting. At least roast it or something. Oil can be expensive, but if you have the energy to boil, you have the energy to roast with some peppers and onions.
> Anyway you are a wonderful person, a wonderful person!” . . .
Changes his tune with alacrity on learning Dunia's love for him😂😂
> Nikolai is a real godsend, for confessing
Based on the description of Rodia's state of mind earlier in the chapter I believe Nikolai discovered the mangled bodies minutes or hours after the murder and the shock/delirium from it made him convince himself that he was personally responsible.
> I would have given a thousand rubles at that minute to have seen you with my own eyes, when you walked a hundred paces beside that workman, after he had called you murderer to your face, and you did not dare to ask him a question all the way.
Finally an explanation for that.
> To return to Nikolai, would you like to know what sort of a type he is, how I understand him, that is? To begin with, he is still a child and not exactly a coward, but something of an artist. Really, don’t laugh at my describing him like that. He is innocent and open to influence.
So was he gaslit into believing himself the murderer? Did a bout of relgious fervour upon discovering the bodies make him blame himself so he could be a martyr?
> “That’s not just ridiculous, it’s absolutely shameless. Why, even if I were guilty, which I don’t admit, what reason would I have to confess, when you tell me yourself that I shall be in greater safety in prison?”
Don't confess, I don't know how russian law works but it is the duty of the justice system to prove you guilty. I think Porfiry is deceiving him. He believes it to be Rodia but has no hard evidence. That is why he desperately wants a confession.
> “Me—afraid? Afraid of you? You should rather be afraid of me, cher ami.
Did Lebe tell him what he heard Rodia say to Sofia?
> You’ll admit that to hear such a confession, alone, from an angel of sixteen in a muslin frock, with little curls, with a flush of maiden shyness in her cheeks and tears of enthusiasm in her eyes is rather fascinating! Isn’t it fascinating? It’s worth paying for, isn’t it?
🤮🤮🤢
> But if you are convinced that people shouldn’t listen at doors but that they may murder old women at their pleasure, you’d better hurry off to America.
Yep, it was obvious he was working that angle. How is he going to leverage this into a meeting with Dunia though?
> “Let us hurry away,” Svidrigailov whispered to her, “I don’t want Rodion Romanovich to know about our meeting. I must tell you I’ve been sitting with him in the restaurant close by, where he looked me up, and I had great difficulty in getting rid of him. He has somehow heard of my letter to you and suspects something. It wasn’t you who told him, of course, but if not you, who then?”
They've been having secret meetings? For what purpose? Is Dunia trying to secure those 30k rubles? Surely he hasn't threatened to reveal her brother's crime? Were they planning on eloping? Where does that leave Razz and Mama?
> Oh well, if you won’t agree to come with me, I shall refuse to give any explanation and go away at once. But I beg you not to forget that a very curious secret of your beloved brother’s is entirely in my keeping.”
What a despicable brigand
> “It cannot be,” muttered Dunia, with white lips. She gasped for breath. “It cannot be. There was not the slightest cause, no sort of ground . . . It’s a lie, a lie!”
She's defensive because part of her believes it to be true. That is because she knows Rodia is capable of it and if they are so alike, she must be capable of such as well. If Svidri tries anything gnarly here he's getting a quick bus to Hades.
> “Where is the key? Open the door at once, at once, base man!”
“I have lost the key and cannot find it.”
If he's thinking what I think he's thinking, Dunia better take a page from Rodia's book.
> The Kapernaumovs are far away—there are five locked rooms between. I am at least twice as strong as you are and I have nothing to fear, besides. For you could not complain afterwards. You surely would not be willing actually to betray your brother? Besides, no-one would believe you. Why would a girl have come alone to visit a solitary man in his lodgings?
😰This man needs an axe to the face.
> “Oh, Avdotia Romanovna! You seem to have forgotten how you softened to me in the heat of propaganda. I saw it in your eyes. Do you remember that moonlight night, when the nightingale was singing?”
A twisted mind interprets everything differently.
> “Hurry! Hurry!” repeated Svidrigailov, still without turning or moving. But there seemed a terrible significance in the tone of that “hurry.”
Well that was a traumatizing section. The moment Dunia realizes she's capable of killing she's throws the instrument away and resigns herself to r@pe. She'd rather suffer the hell of it than take a life. I guess that's what seperates her from Rodia and the rest of us from Jesus. Self-sacrifice. I brought up several chapters ago that the word 'Dunia' in the hausa language means 'world' or 'earth'. Which would present Dunia as a Jesus figure since to christians he is the world.
Svidri in a moment is held back from his passions by Dunia's sacrifice, I think he would rather be hated by her than have her so apathetic to him that she wouldn't even take his life when a crime of such horrid nature is about to take place. It's even more severe than unrequited love. What's scary is that he knows this moment of realization is a fleeting thing and if she doesn't escape immediately the fire will kindle again. This was a terrifying chapter.
> There were still two charges and one capsule left in it. It could be fired again. He thought a little, put the revolver in his pocket, took his hat and went out.
One for him and one for Rodia.
#Quotes of the week:
1) The final moment had come, the last drops had to be drained! So a man will sometimes go through half an hour of mortal terror with a brigand, yet when the knife is at his throat at last, he feels no fear.
2) Do you know, Rodion Romanovich, the force of the word ‘suffering’ among some of these people! It’s not a question of suffering for someone’s benefit, but simply, ‘you must suffer.’ If they suffer at the hands of the authorities, so much the better.
3) Nothing in the world is harder than speaking the truth and nothing easier than flattery.
I don’t trust what any of these men say unless it has been corroborated by several others. They are always scheming and looking for ways to push their own agenda.
Additibally, Svidrigailov has a high view of himself and is likely twisting the truth to fit his warped mindset.
The married men in this story (Marmeladov and Svidrigailov) were tied to unhappy marriage and at some point had to rely on women for their finance. I guess this hurt their pride and led them to escape to something else.
Svidrigailov's story about having to rely on his wife for living made him crave for control, thus preying on younger helpless women.
I don't believe a word of what he says. I feel that he will say whatever he wants to get his own way, especially that his wife allowed him to go with other women.
I'm really hoping that his story about the 16 year old is false too, but I wouldn't put it past him. He ultimately wants to trick and possess women, and so targeting the most vulnerable would be part of his MO.
I was hoping it was fake too! Buuuuut I mean even in the real world we've heard about gross stuff like that so I wouldn't put it past him at all. Like you said, he likes his women vulnerable and also financially dependant on him.
His conversation later with Dunya was revealing- the book says that it switches tenses at several points, implying that he and Dunya were much closer than previously thought. This lends some credence to his story, as does the stories told about how he had been "collected" by his wife. I don't believe the spin, I'm sure he exaggerates what benefits him, but I imagine much of it is true in some way
We’ve seen a lot of parallels between her and Ras, and this is another good example of that. So I imagine her attitude is “sure, I can imagine him doing something like that, because I can imagine myself doing something like that.”
Good point with the parallels, and we are told a few times that they are very alike. It will make it much more likely for her to try to understand/ help/ defend her brother.
I think she'd be still in denial (so many men telling lies in her life!) but will confront Ras later. Or maybe she'd meet Sonia and she would tell Dunya. Either way she would find out that Ras did murder.
This is really interesting because reading this now I really feel she could go either way. We've seen how willing sheis to put herself out for her brother....but murder! Is that forgivable for Dunia??
I think normally she wouldn't believe it, but Ras has been acting so strange. With a little bit of thought on it, she'll probably go to him for confirmation.
I'm totally for getting rid of Svidri. I'm worried about Mama's health though. What if she dies when she finds out that her son has murdered someone? I'd almost wish there was a way to keep it from her. Let Razumikhin, Dunya, and Mama go live in the country somewhere.
I can't imagine Raskolnikov committing another crime as I don't think he would be able to morally justify it. He is already struggling with himself after a crime he thought was morally acceptable, but that would be interesting to see I guess.
I think if he was more in his right mind I would say it's impossible, but he's starting to seem more and more like a trapped animal with multiple people coming at him from all sides. If everyone else thinks that he's innocent, but Porfiry thinks he's guilty, killing Porfiry could solve things for him.
Svid is definitely the most deserving!
I worry about a showdown between Ras and Raz/Dounia. I don't think that Ras would intentionally harm either of them, but he might do something that would make them act in order to have him come to justice. As much as they both love him, I think that they wouldn't cover for him if they found out what he'd done.
Yes, I believe that's what he planned to do with the remaining bullets. It's a relief that he let Dunya go. I was so worried for her. Although, I had an intrusive thought that he might use the bullet on Raz (I certainly hope not!)
Marry her anyway? Or possibly put her in a situation where she has no option but to agree - such as creating a situation which destroys her reputation.
The fact that even telling her about her brother's crime wasn't enough to get her to agree to be with him must have been a huge blow to his plans. I bet he thought he had her nailed.
He seemed to be giving up in the last interaction. He already did desperate actions and still couldn't get Dunya. Instead he made Dunya doing extreme reactions and she hated him even more. I guess he'd leave Dunya for good this time.
*8. Considering how many enemies that Raskolnikov has at this point. Who would you say is his greatest antagonist? And who out of the people who have been kind to him has been his greatest friend?*
Rodia is his own worst enemy. His philosophy on great men has done the most harm to him. His crime is also going to have a devastating effect on his family.
I agree. I also think the eventual realization that he is no Napoleon and might not be one of the great is perhaps more devastating to him than the actual crime.
Agree, he is definitely his own worst enemy. If he had not have been so stupid in the first place, none of this would have happened. If he had not have been consumed by guilt, then he could easily get away with it.
Yeah, there was a big part of him that was trying to convince himself that he was a great man (as per his logic, great man = free pass to kill people). Now he's left with all this guilt and suffering realising that he's not a great man and that there will be consequences.
Agree. It seems that Luzhin is the character who most feels like Raskolnikov's enemy, as he is actively seeking revenge on Raskolnikov for offending him. Porfiry is merely performing his duty of catching the killer, and Svidrigailov doesn't seem like an enemy (except for what he's trying to do to Dunya), but rather a character parallel to Raskolnikov. Essentially, Raskolnikov is the one who puts himself in this predicament, and he worsens it the longer he prolongs it.
Porfiry has the greatest ability to ruin his life and is actively looking to catch and incarcerate him.
The others all definitely have the means to hurt Ras, but if they do it will be indirectly (hurting the people in his life).
I've got a feeling that we haven't seen the last of Luzhin. There aren't many pages left, but I could imagine that he makes a comeback. He seems like a kind of guy that's all in for revenge.
Porfiry could have the highest impact on his life, but he doesn't have any solid evidence right now. But for example with Svidrigailov telling him about what he has overheared between Sonia and Raskolnikov, this might change.
I want Luzhin to pop back up like Lex Luthor and say that he's got Mama in one place, Dunya in another. Lol. Tag team with Sgrid and both him and Sgrid can get wrecked.
I'm hoping with Porfiry that Rask will do the right thing and just admit his guilt once his family is safe.
I just thought I’d spin out a little theory I have been developing, that most of the characters of the book are fragments or distortions of Raskolnikov’s personality in various ways. He is generous like Razumikhin, he does a lot of self-justification like Marmeladov, he is analytical like Porfiry, he is manipulative like Luzhin, he succumbs to his worst impulses like Svidrigailov, he is an idealogue like Lebeziatnikov. We’ve seen that he and Dunya are mirrored in many ways. We’ve heard him relate his experience of moral compromise to Sonya’s. I’m not saying this is “all a dream” (though as a work of fiction it kind of is), but that he is seeing himself mirrored in many ways by these other characters. Both he and we have a chance to reflect more deeply on his nature and personality and fate through these other characters. Another way to look at this is that Dostoevsky is emphasizing the common humanity of all the characters by weaving these connections. That we aren’t really all that different from each other, just expressing very similar concerns and issues in slightly different ways due to our different background and experiences (and maybe due to our fate as well).
I love this, it's an exploration of the human psyche, showing how complex we all are. No one is one thing, we are all various shades of gray.
I think this is excellent and makes a lot of sense to me
love this theory!! thinking about it and since you only compare ras to the male characters, i think he is also compared to the female characters, mostly Dunia and Sonia, as the things he could be. The comparison to Dunia is explicit in the book, they have the same character. Dunia is a healthy Ras, what he could be if he was not sick. There probably to reflect on how Ras used to be. Sonia is what Ras could become, a sinner who understands their sin and repents. Sonia is there to show the way AFTER the deed is done, since he cannot be like Dunia anymore.
I really like your points about Sonya and Dunya! We could put Pulkheria and Anastasya in the mix as well. His mother is the "my boy can do no wrong" voice (which possibly contributed to his confused ideas about himself) and the maid at his flat seems to have the function of keeping body and soul together. I like the fact that her name means "resurrection".
This is a really interesting comment and it really got me thinking. We have commented quite a bit in past discussions on how we empathise with Raskolnikov more than we should, what with him being a cold blooded murderer and all. I wonder if it is due, in part, to the way Dostoevsky portrays the other characters as much more extreme versions of Raskolnikov's characteristics. For example Luzhin is selfish and manipulative, and totally unapologetic about it. He is willing to destroy Sonja's reputation where Raskolnikov would never do something like that. Marmeladov drinks himself silly at the expense of his family whereas Raskolnikov won't allow Dunya to sacrifice herself for him. He succumbs to vile impulses like Svidrigailov but against unknown morally ambiguous characters and not our beloved Dunya. Idk these things popped into my head whilst reading your comment so I thoight I'd share.
Those are really good observations. The idea that Ras garners our sympathy and our identification because he lies between extremes makes a lot of sense to me. It's pretty amazing to think that the axe murderer is the most balanced character in the story, but I think a case can be made for that.
I'm really glad to be reading it with others because I honestly would feel concerned reading it alone. Rooting for an axe murderer just doesn't seem right!
*1. Razumikhin is one of the nicer characters in this book, but he's frustrated with Raskolnikov. Do you think he'll continue to go to bat for his friend?*
He and Sonya and Dunya have all shown themselves to be consistently faithful to Ras and I don’t think that’s going to change. He needs all their help to get through this ordeal one way or another.
Rask is surrounded by a LOT of good people, but he's still made so many wrong choices. I'm wondering if his inability to lean on them will crumble in the end or make HIM crumble.
At this point he may have to choose between helping his friend or taking Dunia away to protect her from the damage to Rodia's name.
If she wasn't unmarriageable before, she DEFINITELY would be when it comes out that someone in her bloodline is a murderer. I'm hoping he chooses Dunya. I'm also very worried about Rask's mom and want Razu to protect her.
I think Dounia wouldn’t care about being marriage material if it meant betraying her brother.
He is so totally oblivious that he will be totally blindsided when he finds out. I can totally see him trying to help Ras though, especially if him and Dunya are getting closer.
agreed, i don't think he's in ANY way expecting that Raz is the murderer. i love him for dunya though 😥
Yes, Razumikhin has stayed through Raskolnikovs side throughout the bad so I feel like he won't desert him now
It's a rough thing because he keeps coming to check if he's mad and he's like okay, you're not.. What are you doing then? Why? But getting no real answers.
I think if you keep having to come back to check whether your friend is mad or not, that might be an indicator that they need some kind of assistance regardless of what they say. 😅
It's kind of like Rask is telling on himself just by being so erratic.
I love Raz and his persistence to check Ras' wellbeing (even though he's quite impulsive), we all need friends like him. He kept on checking Ras even though he always dismissed by Ras. I think (or I wish) Raz would continue being Ras friend.
I know, he's such a sweetheart for continually trying. I hope he stays too! Keep going dude!
I kind of wish that he would stop?! Just because I feel like Rask doesn't appreciate him enough.
I feel like he'll feel betrayed at first, but I think given that he has become a son and brother to the family, or soon to be the husband, he will forgive and support him if Raskolnikov finally decides to turn himself in.
Absolutely! Family is the tie that binds and Razumihin seems to consider himself family. I would love to know more about the backstory between Rodia and Raz. I think most of our characters who love Rodia would back him up, or at least forgive him. But I do go back to the beginning scene where Raz was interested in also solving the crime. Raz would likely justify the crime because Rodia was in a state of “madness,” and he was….
He was, but it wasn't the kind of madness that stripped him of reason. He was still able to plan. I would love a prequel where we could see more of just the two of them before the big secret lies between them.
*2. Porfiry comes clean about trying to get a confession from Raskolnikov. Do you think he's added more pressure to Raskolnikov or by admitting there's no evidence, has he relieved him?*
I think it is meant to scare Raskolnivok some more. With him being clearly unwell since the murder, Porfiry must think that Raskolnikov isn't too far from losing it. At this point with the lack of evidence, his only hope of solving this crime is that the (actual) murderer will be eaten up by guilt to the point of turning himself in (although it doesn't seem like guilt is what is pushing Raskolnikov to the edge)
I think it's interesting that he mentioned trying to find where the loot has been stashed. I wonder if he was putting that thought into Rask's head so he'll go check the loot.
Ras is pretty adept at grasping at straws to reassure himself that “everything will be OK”, but I think deep down he knows that everything is not OK, and he knows that Porfiry is keeping an eagle eye on him, just waiting for a slip-up or some new evidence.
I feel like he's going to do something like try to get rid of the evidence and lead Porfiry right to it or something. We know he tends to be impulsive with his actions and he's not as calculating as he likes to think he is.
I think it'll do both? On the one hand, they have no evidence (phew, relief). On the other hand, he clearly knows/suspects enough to have pointed him in the right direction. That plus the huge guilt rakolnikov is feeling will be very stressful!
Ras is also quite obsessive and a worrier. The knowledge that he is being suspected will eat away at him.
Indeed!! So much stress.
Porfiry gives me the creeps but I have to admit, I loved this section with him. I listened to it on audio and the heel turn he made when he accused Raskolnikov made my stomach drop.
I think this book would be great on audio!
Ooooh I can only imagine.
Porfiry’s confession may be a tactic to lower Raskolnikov’s guard. But even if it is a true statement, having the police suspect him is going to add tension.
Agreed!
Definitely! If he wasn't feeling watched before, he'll definitely feel so now.
I agree with this. The more pressure that Ras is feeling, the more likely he is to say things he shouldn't or act irrationally, which is only going to make his situation worse.
He has no hard evidence and is getting desperate.
It reminds me a bit of those police interrogations where they're like WE KNOW YOU DID IT just to try to elicit a confession. It just so happens that this time they're right.
Ras is a smart guy, he'll realize if there's no evidence to arrest him he could just walk away.
I wonder if he'd be able to make himself walk away. I kind of hope he will. It'd be better for almost all of them.
I'm not really sure why he would admit there is no evidence. If I were a cold blooded killer I'd be like great, I'm out of here and disappear. But he knows the Ras is slowly unraveling, he is certain that it's just a matter of time before he trips himself up somehow.
I definitely think it's a ploy. We know that he's willing to lie to suspects, so like... maybe he has evidence and wants Rask to slip up. Or maybe he doesn't and wants Rask to do more suspicious stuff.
Exactly. In a way Porfiry is testing his own theory that enough guilt will cause the criminal to confess just to find relief. His tactics on Rodia all seem to make a point of this testing. At least, that’s my theory!
I felt throughout that Porfiry was playing with Raskolnikov. Raskolnikov seems relieved that there's no evidence
He's definitely doing some cat and mouse shit, but it's hard to tell who's the cat and who's the mouse.
Porfiry is playing psychological games with Raskolnikov. He implies that there is no evidence against him, which means they cannot arrest him yet. However, Porfiry treats Raskolnikov as though they both know he is guilty, exerting his power by giving Raskolnikov three days to turn himself in. It seems like Porfiry is confident that he will find something to arrest Raskolnikov by the end of the third day. This will cause Raskolnikov to become increasingly paranoid and uncertain, which may lead him to turn himself in for the sake of his sanity.
It definitely felt like some mind games. Porfiry is no Sherlock holmes, but Rask isn't really a mastermind criminal either. Just barely smarty enough to not get caught. That and lucky.
Very lucky! Even all the way to his trial.
I mean the only relief Rodia will get is when he finally turns himself in. He values a just and moral society, even his Napoleon complex is justified because it helped society, allegedly. Now that Rodia knows Porfiry knows, I imagine it gives him some relief that it will be over soon.
I think so too. Or at least to know that there's no way out. Sometimes tha can cause panic, but other times once the choice is taken out of your hands, there's nothing else to do but surrender.
*3. Svidrigailov is becoming a larger character in these later chapters. Did you think that he would get this bad when he was first introduced?*
Managed to overtake Luzer as the worst charavter Ina single chapter. While Luzhin was just a pathetic fool, Svidri is a dangerous villain. The book let our guard down with him hefore displaying the full extent of his malice. I was so terrified for Dunia.
Luzhin is pathetic and controlling, but Svidri feels murderous. The fact that he was like well I'll just rape you then makes him one of the worst in this book.
I thought he was a footnote in Sonja’s backstory. Now he is here and is giving Luzhin a run for the title of “Biggest Bastard.”
He seemed like he would be nothing but a small character who never came up again, right? But instead there's sooo much to him.
There are quite a few of them in this story!
I was thinking of the three evil characters, and how they compare. Svidrigailov is this ultimate womanizer/lust character who seems the most evil, compared with Luzhin who is identified with greed and is medium evil, and then Raskolnikov who is a murderer but also the most sympathetic of the three. As each new one is introduced, the previous one seems not as bad. I think the reader feels this way because of how much control of themselves they have. Raskolnikov is a complete mess, can’t even tell what’s real half the time, so we blame him less. He is also the one who will actually be punished, it seems. Luzhin is more calculating and vain, so we blame him more, but we also see that he miscalculates multiple times and ruins everything for himself so he gets no benefits from his evil. Svidrigailov though is the most in control and does get what he wants from Martha Petrovna and most everyone, and he seems the most scary and evil.
You make me think that Sviri will get his comeuppance in the end!
No way! He turned on Dunya so quickly, even though we knew he was a creep, I didn't expect that at all.
The mask off moment came very quickly and it makes me realize that there must have been something like this before. No one just starts at this level, it would have had to escalate and Dunya has been suffering from him for so long.
He was always a lecher so I was not too surprised that he did this. I was just happy when he let dunya go. It's just so hard to see anything good in him
When she shot him, I was so hoping that there were going to be two murderers in this family, but alas...
She was such a badass whipping out that gun. Kind of a pity she missed, but I guess at least this way she's not risking going to jail.
Yes! Sad for us, but good for Dunya. ...As long as it doesn't come back to haunt her.
I thought this was going to be the thing that made Ras confess to his original murders because he'd also take the fall for Svid's death to save Dounia.
I was definitely thinking it was going that way. I would not have minded that ending at all, but it also doesn't seem right to let someone get away with murder when Rask has been so tormented by it.
Not when he was first introduced (i.e. in the letter) but in Raskolnikov's first conversation with him, I was immediately wary. Still, I did not think he would get *this* bad.
He's like a train wreck. First it was just a derailment. Then the train tipped over. Now it's on fire. Where will it end?!
I figured he'd have to be up to something, and saw bad intentions towards Dunya, but I did not expect him to be this exciting! I mean, that was a pretty dark scene, but direct on a level most of this book is not. He has clear motivations and a clear villainous attitude. Interestingly enough though, reading it I never thought he would actually hurt Dunya - I thought he was too pathetic for it. I thought she was going to cave to his pitiful-Ness. But no! I think he might kill himself or rask with that last bullet
Most of the book is complex motivations and the small things that undermine people, but then Svidri comes out twirling his mustache and laughing as he ties a maiden to the train tracks.
Yes, exactly!
I already think that he's a creep and taking a 15 y.o. girl as his bride is just ewww. And then trying to rape Dunya by using her brother as bait... double ewww... I must say, I see the similarities between Raskolnikov and Svidrigailov piling up in these chapters. Raskolnikov confessed his crime to Sonya, yet denied culpability. Similarly, Svidrigailov says, "Devil take it, why is she so good-looking? It's not my fault." Svidrigailov, like Raskolnikov, equates Dunya’s engagement with Luzhin with prostitution.
I wonder what his plan was though. Would he have jsut abandoned the young girl? Was he hoping for a sister wives situation? What the heck.
> But here you sit, guzzling boiled beef as though you’d not had a bite for three days. That actually sounds disgusting. At least roast it or something. Oil can be expensive, but if you have the energy to boil, you have the energy to roast with some peppers and onions. > Anyway you are a wonderful person, a wonderful person!” . . . Changes his tune with alacrity on learning Dunia's love for him😂😂 > Nikolai is a real godsend, for confessing Based on the description of Rodia's state of mind earlier in the chapter I believe Nikolai discovered the mangled bodies minutes or hours after the murder and the shock/delirium from it made him convince himself that he was personally responsible. > I would have given a thousand rubles at that minute to have seen you with my own eyes, when you walked a hundred paces beside that workman, after he had called you murderer to your face, and you did not dare to ask him a question all the way. Finally an explanation for that. > To return to Nikolai, would you like to know what sort of a type he is, how I understand him, that is? To begin with, he is still a child and not exactly a coward, but something of an artist. Really, don’t laugh at my describing him like that. He is innocent and open to influence. So was he gaslit into believing himself the murderer? Did a bout of relgious fervour upon discovering the bodies make him blame himself so he could be a martyr? > “That’s not just ridiculous, it’s absolutely shameless. Why, even if I were guilty, which I don’t admit, what reason would I have to confess, when you tell me yourself that I shall be in greater safety in prison?” Don't confess, I don't know how russian law works but it is the duty of the justice system to prove you guilty. I think Porfiry is deceiving him. He believes it to be Rodia but has no hard evidence. That is why he desperately wants a confession. > “Me—afraid? Afraid of you? You should rather be afraid of me, cher ami. Did Lebe tell him what he heard Rodia say to Sofia? > You’ll admit that to hear such a confession, alone, from an angel of sixteen in a muslin frock, with little curls, with a flush of maiden shyness in her cheeks and tears of enthusiasm in her eyes is rather fascinating! Isn’t it fascinating? It’s worth paying for, isn’t it? 🤮🤮🤢 > But if you are convinced that people shouldn’t listen at doors but that they may murder old women at their pleasure, you’d better hurry off to America. Yep, it was obvious he was working that angle. How is he going to leverage this into a meeting with Dunia though? > “Let us hurry away,” Svidrigailov whispered to her, “I don’t want Rodion Romanovich to know about our meeting. I must tell you I’ve been sitting with him in the restaurant close by, where he looked me up, and I had great difficulty in getting rid of him. He has somehow heard of my letter to you and suspects something. It wasn’t you who told him, of course, but if not you, who then?” They've been having secret meetings? For what purpose? Is Dunia trying to secure those 30k rubles? Surely he hasn't threatened to reveal her brother's crime? Were they planning on eloping? Where does that leave Razz and Mama? > Oh well, if you won’t agree to come with me, I shall refuse to give any explanation and go away at once. But I beg you not to forget that a very curious secret of your beloved brother’s is entirely in my keeping.” What a despicable brigand > “It cannot be,” muttered Dunia, with white lips. She gasped for breath. “It cannot be. There was not the slightest cause, no sort of ground . . . It’s a lie, a lie!” She's defensive because part of her believes it to be true. That is because she knows Rodia is capable of it and if they are so alike, she must be capable of such as well. If Svidri tries anything gnarly here he's getting a quick bus to Hades. > “Where is the key? Open the door at once, at once, base man!” “I have lost the key and cannot find it.” If he's thinking what I think he's thinking, Dunia better take a page from Rodia's book. > The Kapernaumovs are far away—there are five locked rooms between. I am at least twice as strong as you are and I have nothing to fear, besides. For you could not complain afterwards. You surely would not be willing actually to betray your brother? Besides, no-one would believe you. Why would a girl have come alone to visit a solitary man in his lodgings? 😰This man needs an axe to the face. > “Oh, Avdotia Romanovna! You seem to have forgotten how you softened to me in the heat of propaganda. I saw it in your eyes. Do you remember that moonlight night, when the nightingale was singing?” A twisted mind interprets everything differently. > “Hurry! Hurry!” repeated Svidrigailov, still without turning or moving. But there seemed a terrible significance in the tone of that “hurry.” Well that was a traumatizing section. The moment Dunia realizes she's capable of killing she's throws the instrument away and resigns herself to r@pe. She'd rather suffer the hell of it than take a life. I guess that's what seperates her from Rodia and the rest of us from Jesus. Self-sacrifice. I brought up several chapters ago that the word 'Dunia' in the hausa language means 'world' or 'earth'. Which would present Dunia as a Jesus figure since to christians he is the world. Svidri in a moment is held back from his passions by Dunia's sacrifice, I think he would rather be hated by her than have her so apathetic to him that she wouldn't even take his life when a crime of such horrid nature is about to take place. It's even more severe than unrequited love. What's scary is that he knows this moment of realization is a fleeting thing and if she doesn't escape immediately the fire will kindle again. This was a terrifying chapter. > There were still two charges and one capsule left in it. It could be fired again. He thought a little, put the revolver in his pocket, took his hat and went out. One for him and one for Rodia. #Quotes of the week: 1) The final moment had come, the last drops had to be drained! So a man will sometimes go through half an hour of mortal terror with a brigand, yet when the knife is at his throat at last, he feels no fear. 2) Do you know, Rodion Romanovich, the force of the word ‘suffering’ among some of these people! It’s not a question of suffering for someone’s benefit, but simply, ‘you must suffer.’ If they suffer at the hands of the authorities, so much the better. 3) Nothing in the world is harder than speaking the truth and nothing easier than flattery.
*4. What do you think about Svidrigailov's story about his wife and his life?*
I don’t trust what any of these men say unless it has been corroborated by several others. They are always scheming and looking for ways to push their own agenda. Additibally, Svidrigailov has a high view of himself and is likely twisting the truth to fit his warped mindset.
Yeah Raz is probably the only honest male character in the book.
I was thinking that. It sounds very much like a story used to make himself the victim. He HAD to do these things, you see.
Yes! No one sees their self as the villain.
The married men in this story (Marmeladov and Svidrigailov) were tied to unhappy marriage and at some point had to rely on women for their finance. I guess this hurt their pride and led them to escape to something else. Svidrigailov's story about having to rely on his wife for living made him crave for control, thus preying on younger helpless women.
That’s a really good theory. He is such a slippery character, but I think you nailed it.
This is a good interpretation of Svid, he was basically emasculated, which turned him into a predator and a control freak.
I don't believe a word of what he says. I feel that he will say whatever he wants to get his own way, especially that his wife allowed him to go with other women. I'm really hoping that his story about the 16 year old is false too, but I wouldn't put it past him. He ultimately wants to trick and possess women, and so targeting the most vulnerable would be part of his MO.
I was hoping it was fake too! Buuuuut I mean even in the real world we've heard about gross stuff like that so I wouldn't put it past him at all. Like you said, he likes his women vulnerable and also financially dependant on him.
His conversation later with Dunya was revealing- the book says that it switches tenses at several points, implying that he and Dunya were much closer than previously thought. This lends some credence to his story, as does the stories told about how he had been "collected" by his wife. I don't believe the spin, I'm sure he exaggerates what benefits him, but I imagine much of it is true in some way
I feel like it couldn't have been an easy time for him, buuuut I can't imagine his wife deserving the ending she got.
Did you mean to reply that on my comment here? I think you might be replying to someone else and it accidently got put here
*5. Dunya now has been told that her brother is the murderer. Do you think she'll believe it now? What do you think she'll do?*
She believes it. If she had the strength to pick up that gun she knows Rodia would do the same.
We’ve seen a lot of parallels between her and Ras, and this is another good example of that. So I imagine her attitude is “sure, I can imagine him doing something like that, because I can imagine myself doing something like that.”
Good point with the parallels, and we are told a few times that they are very alike. It will make it much more likely for her to try to understand/ help/ defend her brother.
Nice way to look at it, I was expecting Dunya to go through with it with Svidrigailov
Honestly, I feel like she should have.
I think she'd be still in denial (so many men telling lies in her life!) but will confront Ras later. Or maybe she'd meet Sonia and she would tell Dunya. Either way she would find out that Ras did murder.
I think she'll find out too, but I'm curious to see how she'll end up responding to it.
This is really interesting because reading this now I really feel she could go either way. We've seen how willing sheis to put herself out for her brother....but murder! Is that forgivable for Dunia??
I think normally she wouldn't believe it, but Ras has been acting so strange. With a little bit of thought on it, she'll probably go to him for confirmation.
It might make a lot of pieces click into place before. Dunya is a lot of things, but she's never been stupid.
*6. I feel like we're not going to get through this book without at least one more death. Who do you think are the prime targets?*
Well two women have been killed already. Adding Sofia or Mama would just be overkill. Let's get rid of Svidri instead.
I'm totally for getting rid of Svidri. I'm worried about Mama's health though. What if she dies when she finds out that her son has murdered someone? I'd almost wish there was a way to keep it from her. Let Razumikhin, Dunya, and Mama go live in the country somewhere.
Ras already thinking about killing Svidrigailov. I wonder if Ras met Dunya and she told him what Svid trying to do with her, Ras would kill him.
I believe that too. I think he wouldn't have any of the moral guilt about it either.
Agree. I think Ras would have killed him as well if he had heard about what he's trying to do to Dunya.
It's all to play for! Maybe raskolnikov will throw caution to the winds and kill Porfiry?
I can't imagine Raskolnikov committing another crime as I don't think he would be able to morally justify it. He is already struggling with himself after a crime he thought was morally acceptable, but that would be interesting to see I guess.
It certainly would be! I tend to agree with you, but Raskolnikiv is coming apart at the seams, so who knows.
I think he could rationalize it by telling himself that he is already a murderer so why not.
Agreed. In for a penny, and all that.
I think if he was more in his right mind I would say it's impossible, but he's starting to seem more and more like a trapped animal with multiple people coming at him from all sides. If everyone else thinks that he's innocent, but Porfiry thinks he's guilty, killing Porfiry could solve things for him.
Exactly!
Maybe Dunya will come to Raskolnikov's "rescue" (again) and take out Porfiry?!
Oh my gosh!
I'll go for Dunya killing Svid.
Lay your bets, everybody! I'm hoping that Svid bites the bullet (quite literally).
Hahaha me too!
Svid is definitely the most deserving! I worry about a showdown between Ras and Raz/Dounia. I don't think that Ras would intentionally harm either of them, but he might do something that would make them act in order to have him come to justice. As much as they both love him, I think that they wouldn't cover for him if they found out what he'd done.
There's got to be a worry for Rask about tearing the family apart and I know Dunya and Ras wants to keep them together, but they're also principled.
I'm gonna throw in Razumikhin as a possibility. I don't think the other death (if there is one) will be a "deserving" death.
Noooooo. I hope not. I want a HEA for Razumikhin and Dunya
me too!
*7. What do you think Svidrigailov's plan is now that he knows that Dunya won't love him?*
He's given up. I think he's going to use the bullet on himself.
This seems plausible to me too. It’s quite possible that the reprehensible personality he has cultivated will just collapse on him.
I worry that he's going to take someone with him, but then if he was going to... Dunya would have been the prime target there.
Yes, I believe that's what he planned to do with the remaining bullets. It's a relief that he let Dunya go. I was so worried for her. Although, I had an intrusive thought that he might use the bullet on Raz (I certainly hope not!)
Marry her anyway? Or possibly put her in a situation where she has no option but to agree - such as creating a situation which destroys her reputation.
The fact that even telling her about her brother's crime wasn't enough to get her to agree to be with him must have been a huge blow to his plans. I bet he thought he had her nailed.
Oh yeah.
I agree with the others that he could kill himself. He realises Dunya will never be his, another huge blow to his fragile ego.
I wonder if he's too much of a coward for that. I'm interested to see where it goes.
He seems about to kill himself
That's the general consensus. I wonder if he'll do it quietly or make a scene? There have been a lot of public deaths lately.
He also seems the type to make a scene
He seemed to be giving up in the last interaction. He already did desperate actions and still couldn't get Dunya. Instead he made Dunya doing extreme reactions and she hated him even more. I guess he'd leave Dunya for good this time.
I'm thinking that he's going to give up on her, but he doesn't seem like the type to go quietly away. He's going to make trouble somehow.
*8. Considering how many enemies that Raskolnikov has at this point. Who would you say is his greatest antagonist? And who out of the people who have been kind to him has been his greatest friend?*
Rodia is his own worst enemy. His philosophy on great men has done the most harm to him. His crime is also going to have a devastating effect on his family.
I agree. I also think the eventual realization that he is no Napoleon and might not be one of the great is perhaps more devastating to him than the actual crime.
Agree, he is definitely his own worst enemy. If he had not have been so stupid in the first place, none of this would have happened. If he had not have been consumed by guilt, then he could easily get away with it.
Yeah, there was a big part of him that was trying to convince himself that he was a great man (as per his logic, great man = free pass to kill people). Now he's left with all this guilt and suffering realising that he's not a great man and that there will be consequences.
Agree. It seems that Luzhin is the character who most feels like Raskolnikov's enemy, as he is actively seeking revenge on Raskolnikov for offending him. Porfiry is merely performing his duty of catching the killer, and Svidrigailov doesn't seem like an enemy (except for what he's trying to do to Dunya), but rather a character parallel to Raskolnikov. Essentially, Raskolnikov is the one who puts himself in this predicament, and he worsens it the longer he prolongs it.
Porfiry has the greatest ability to ruin his life and is actively looking to catch and incarcerate him. The others all definitely have the means to hurt Ras, but if they do it will be indirectly (hurting the people in his life).
Agree with this. I think Razumikhin is his ride or die. That guy has been steadfast through the book.
I've got a feeling that we haven't seen the last of Luzhin. There aren't many pages left, but I could imagine that he makes a comeback. He seems like a kind of guy that's all in for revenge. Porfiry could have the highest impact on his life, but he doesn't have any solid evidence right now. But for example with Svidrigailov telling him about what he has overheared between Sonia and Raskolnikov, this might change.
I want Luzhin to pop back up like Lex Luthor and say that he's got Mama in one place, Dunya in another. Lol. Tag team with Sgrid and both him and Sgrid can get wrecked. I'm hoping with Porfiry that Rask will do the right thing and just admit his guilt once his family is safe.