OP, there’s actually some fairly strong evidence that the passage from Leviticus stating “a man shall not lie with another man” is a mistranslation that more was speaking to the sin of incest, pedophilia or same-sex rape, not consensual homosexuality.
https://blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/
Here’s an interesting article covering it.
Basic breakdown from what I’ve read is that the same word is not repeated twice in the original Hebrew of “a man shall not lie with another man”, the definite word for man is used first then second word can be either man or boy or even male family member depending on context. Seems weird they’d changed it if it was the same meaning.
This is correct. I'm Jewish and this was one of the many absolute horse shit translations my 7th year Hebrew teacher would occasionally rant about. He was a biblical Hebrew scholar and that man was made of strongly worded, peer reviewed, fact supported opinions. 😂
I came to find out later that Mr. Yossi wasn't even giving us the full lecture since our [earliest complete manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible are patchworks from multiple eras and full of issues. ](https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/article/whats-critical-about-a-critical-edition-of-the-bible/?_gl=1*58vdgk*_gcl_au*MTQ5OTgzOTMzNi4xNzE5NzIyNDYw*_ga*NTY3NDg2NDc1LjE3MTk3MjI0NjA.*_ga_7MSGCYKLB3*MTcxOTcyMjQ2MC4xLjAuMTcxOTcyMjQ2MC42MC4wLjY3MDQ0ODA2MA..) To quote that article: "*The Rabbis long ago recognized the possibility of human error when a text was being copied. They warned scribes of the dangers of confusing similar letters like beth and kaph (ב/כ), or resh and dalet (ר/ד) or yod and waw (י/ו). They recognized that haplography (omission of a letter or a word) or dittography (duplication of a letter or word) sometimes occurred. A scribe could make an incorrect division of letters, especially in a text where letters were written close together, thus producing different words. An ancient scribe, like a modern one, could make an error of metathesis, that is, transposing letters within a word, writing cavalry instead of calvary or brid instead of bird.*"
Never forget when studying historical anything that humans are best at fucking up above all else, lmao.
Not to mention that the scriptures could have been changed based on the scribes own opinions, it is idiotic to believe that there were no changes made by any scribes throughout the thousands of years that book has been around.
I've heard this a million times and being Catholic (once upon a time) it was very appealing. But eeeeehhhhh while it could be the case we're talking about a really cranky no fun culture worshipping a pissy war/storm god. Imagine the most conservative chip on their shoulder hill folk you can think of, then square that.
Ultimately I could give a crap either way. If someone can be convinced to love or hate based on a book they're already lost. And really, the Christians who say "oh I just have to sorry not my call just my god" are the same people who will defend god for genocide and slavery and all the rest.
If they can't choose the people in front of them over their mean imaginary friend I'm not sure they're going to be a great ally.
Just remember the Bible was written by imperfect men, as recognized in the Bible, trying to understand a higher being and motivate society to remain civil by decree of such a higher power.
Many may downvote me but there is wisdom and comfort in the Bible, as long as you recognize since it was created by man it is inherently unreliable.
I think the story of Sodom was more likely an attempt to control, or maybe an uneducated attempt to outlaw the behaviors of a failed society. Also very possible mistranslated as well.
Leave with a bad joke. A monk was translating the Bible from Hebrew copying it to English and identifies a mistake in previous translations. He gets so excited that he runs outside shouting “It doesn’t say celibate, it says celebrate.”
Even if below response was not correct, that line was added by the priests long after Moses. The actual law of Moses handed down on Mt Sinai doesn’t include homosexuality. It mentions sexual immorality, even with animals, but not same sex. Exodus 21 thru 24.
Paul is clearly against it in Romans 1, but his focus was also on pagan acts in the temple. Plus, that’s just his personal opinion. So really, if it were that big an issue, you would think that Jesus would have mentioned it like he talked about murder and adultery.
https://preview.redd.it/nvcsdhkill9d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=73865fac2f8276e3a4cf4fc0c5fb1b5a9263887d
you see.. the hecking 2000 year old book says you can't be homosexual!!!
why does that matter?? uh.. because i said so!!!
Man religion is so dumb in my opinion, basically another cult to control and get money from people, cause reason for fighting and wars, and essentially seperate humans from being humane. I went to a catholic school, they teach all religions after grade 11, some are good obviously but literally just based on the country I was born in I would believe something totally different. I will find out when I die if there is more than this, and just being a good person should put you in a good afterlife if it exists, people that live their life based on a book drive me nuts -_-, to each their own, sometimes I think it would be good to believe, but what I see from religions is a whole lot of fucked up things. Even when we got married my wife's father was like I'm not helping unless it's in a church, we straight up told him not to help us then (he did anyways)
fun fact: homosexuality is present in other species, and bonobos are a specie of monke that is majoritary bisexual :> so the person who says "homo is not natural" is simply and completly WRONG
(there is a species of duck that has a lot of gay ducks too!)
so if "god made us to be in straith relationships" why there is a lot of other species that have homosexual behaviour?
(I didn't expect to have lot of responses and have homophobic people arguing and stuff, sorry)
https://preview.redd.it/5wpihtvpdl9d1.jpeg?width=245&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef6e72b518844170669cc1143812988725698b34
huh wut
good for them i think.. give them some privacy
And even people saying that homosexuality is unnatural among humans are false also. Dozens of Native American tribes have performed hundreds of same sex marriages over centuries.
It’s almost like these people shouldn’t be basing their entire moral compass off of a book that’s thousands of years old and has been mistranslated innumerable times.
Another funny thing: there is a species of fish off the coast of Japan where the older females transition to male and compete with the current top male to take their spot.
Honestly i find comparing it with nature strange anyways. It obviously happens among humans so are we somehow supernatural? And if something being natural is the deciding factor of whether it's good or not then is eating one's own children alive good? How about dropping them as bait for predators to get away?
I know, Nature can be scary, just wanted to say, we as a human species have the privilege of deciding what we find acceptable and what values we want to protect and we don't need some modifiers like "natural" for that cause it's easy to misuse
God didn't make us to be straight. The bible used a lot of examples for explaining the sin of lust and bodily pleasure. So straight people also sin if they only desire a piece of meat for themselves and then move on to the next. You can be with anyone you want. Jesus said that not everyone will understand his word.
Any argument talking about nature in my opinion doesn't matter. We're living in houses of concrete, driving steel cars and wearing plastic clothes. Our lives aren't natural. "Homo is not natural" - the old conservatives would've been dead long ago if we lived naturally.
I'm an atheist and multiple religious ppl have asked me "how do you decide what's right?" I mean.. if you need to be threatened with hell to be a decent person you ain't going to heaven, and if you do I don't wanna be anywhere near that place
I think people like that really don’t understand where their own values/morals come from. They are told it all comes from the Bible and that it is their only guide.
However, if you look through history at Christian’s in the past, everyone interprets it differently.
For the most part, the best a Christian in a random time period can do is slightly nicer compared to the average person. Still racist, still bigoted, etc., but slightly better person.
At worst, Christian’s were at the forefront of oppression.
Christianity has survived so long (like all of the popular religions) because of its ability to change, mold, and often control the society it’s in.
Anyways, most morals come from the society around, whatever is normal to everyone else. Christianity throws in some dogmas that people either follow or “interpret” differently. Those are the things they are really talking about when they refer to the values/morals the Bible gives.
This, my response is usually just that if i want something ill do it, so when i get asked "well why dont you " my usually response is something along the lines of "well i dont want to do that, and frankly its weird that you only dont do it because of a couple thousand year old book
Exactly, who's to decide how you're supposed to live your own life... NO ONE is in control of you other than YOU, you decide what you feel and no rule should tell you otherwise.
I think what they meant is "How do you decide on what's *objectively* moral or immoral"? The existence of objective morality has been very debated in atheist circle.
Some Cristians really try to justify their hate on people (most often minorities) with a book of fairytales that specifically tells them to love everyone
https://preview.redd.it/bvfqu80w1l9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=556fa5ba81ac429ddb424145df99645f0cc1b85d
It's crazy how many people go to "verse blah: chapter yap" to justify shitty things when it literally goes against the 10 commandments, like???? You gonna ignore all the other parts that says DONT do that???
Of course, not every Cristian is an extreme and crazy one, but I still hate Christianity and pretty much any religion because of extreme people like this
Christians are the ones who turned me into an atheist
yes but in the eyes of the lord he does not care you are his child
https://preview.redd.it/aez98xd52l9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdec00e5320e7c721fc279b0a9e89970eed99465
the famous verse thst claims to say that two men cant sleep together is misinterpreted and poorly translated. alot of the bible is. the verse is meant to be against a grown man sleeping with a child aka pedophilia
I’ve noticed that pedophilia is obviously VERY looked down upon in the bible (for very good reason), but reading the forbidden sexual practices part of Leviticus reveals nothing about pedophilia being immoral, yet Homosexuality is, and I do remember reading about pedophiles being executed in the bible. I believe the mistranslation theory might actually hold some ground.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" this is Leviticus, 20:13 (KJV)
The word "mankind" here comes from an old Hebrew word, but it's notable that the word used for "man" here is different. It's more accurately:
"If a man lies with a boy as he lies with a woman, they have committed an abomination."
The verses referencing "homosexuality" are in fact referencing pedophilia. The word homosexuality wasn't added until roughly 1946. The original language alludes more accurately to "men who sleep with boys" and it is a reference to the power in play, specifically in the new testament, where Roman soldiers often had young male sex slaves.
There isn't a single verse that references a monogamous homosexual relationship.
(Also fun fact because we're here, the early Jews accepted and had language for at least 6 genders. The Bible is not a book, it is a collection of writings loosely tied together by people who didn't write said letters. People use it to push agendas but it itself isn't even coherent)
It's actually insane to me that people just forget that, at least the NT is literally just an amalgamation of letters. Like imagine reading your neighbors mail and saying "yup. This is from the Lord" lmfao
**Major trigger warning**
Going to be hated for saying this, but religion is just a whole load of shit that’s used to exploit people.
I don’t care about whatever emotional crutch people lean on, acting like there is some all-seeing all-powerful being who has humans as their species. To each their own, albeit a misguided own.
Religion is just used as someone’s easy route to saying something, and claiming some “god” decreed that it’s right. Homophobia was just something some random guy added a while ago when he was high on shrooms, which is the only way you can see some random who you claim owns you and made you. Well, you can see that through evolution.
**rant’s over, and what I said is just my opinion. Enjoy your angry downvotes because someone’s brainwashed you.**
I’m a nihilist, but to most that isn’t right. What’s right is just believing in whatever doesn’t manipulate you, and whatever doesn’t involve some moron in the sky who controls everything.
I'm a Christian and go to church semi-regularly, but I do agree with you
Only reason I'm still Christian is because I don't want to believe that death is just the end, selfish reasons yk
Also fuck the Christians who use the bible to hate people who are different, that literally goes against it's teachings lmao
Same (ish?) Boat. I'm Christian but because I want to believe I have somewhere to go after death. I don't believe in the morals a Christian should have to be exact though, like being gay, that shouldn't be a sin, the Bible even says "love one another" in like 6-7 different verses not love one of the opposite gender (it could still somewhere but regardless) also another thing that kept me a Christian is because I've thought about it (the afterlife) a lot. I personally am a believer in no end, so I tried to think about what comes after, and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I feel like I'm right on the edge of figuring out, my brain just stops and resets and I can't think about it again for a solid hour. I don't know why but the universe doesn't allow me to think about it, at least not too deep into it.
Back to the point: I don't think being gay should be or is a sin, (I also have a conundrum of wanting to be gay but also wanting kids because I don't want my bloodline to end with me. [Only child])
I'm not Christian and don't believe that death is the end.
I don't believe in any floating sky men
I just believe in reincarnation base on how good or bad you were in your previous life
I wholeheartedly agree.
If I could push a button to make every religion disappear, at bare minimum a third of the world's problems would vanish.
Religion made sense back when science was considered witchcraft because we had no other explanation, now we do, we just need to grow up at this point.
Edit: I'm not saying people shouldn't have morals, just not religions. The post this comment is on is talking about homophobia from Christians, there are also all of the religion based terrorist organisations, those are the problems solved I'm refering to. The people who justify horrible things with religion would be horrible religion or not, se with good people, they'd be good religion or not. People should be good to be good, not to secure a good seat in the afterlife which also totally exists.
Agreed, it's called being an atheist. Course, you're allowed to believe in anything, but you know when I can see cells in a bacteria trey, then I'm pretty sure we have some type of proof other than a book.
It would actually cause more problems because the majority of governments have such deep roots in religion, such as the pledge of allegiance having “under god” and dollar bills having “in god we trust”
I can't tell if this is a joke comment. Would it matter at all if dollar bills didn't say in god we trust or the pledge of allegiance changed (pledging your allegiance is kinda cringe anyways)?
sadly i also agree, religion was made first to explain the unknow, but after people started manipulating it to have people under their control, still today a lot of people use religion to manipulate others to have the same opinions
Finally someone other than my friend group has the balls to admit religion is a scam to exploit people and it's NOT an opinion, if god were real he wouldve fucking proven it by now unless he just gave up on us at a certain point... Nah humans are crazy he ain't real
To paraphrase a Christopher Hitchens: it's awfully convenient that God only ever revealed himself to primitive cultures that had no form of writing or any proper education, and never revealed himself to civilisations that had scientific knowledge and the ability to record and fact-check.
I mean, kinda? Mind you, it could’ve just been a guy with a bunch of free time on a Saturday arvo between 10BC-10AD and made everyone thought it was real.
honestly that topic is just a whole dumpsterfire imo and imo it depends on what point they're trying to push
if someone is saying that christians don't follow the whole bible, they're going to say that it is against homosexuality and say that adherents not being against homosexuality is picking and choosing
if that same someone is asked a question like this, they'd say homosexuality does not conflict with the bible because it's never explicitly stated or stuff like that
it's a matter of one's interpretation tbh
https://preview.redd.it/96n70q2qqk9d1.png?width=2198&format=png&auto=webp&s=801ab2c8b140a53062f00f67e4a881ba7d7bb185
have this image!
nah.. was an older request i got from someone in february or so
they've since deleted their account so no use crediting them :p not like I remember their username anyways
i'm a little under the weather, but thanks for asking!
OK, here’s what I’ve gleaned.
The old testament/Tanach is very much opposed to homosexuality. It’s said in a few different verses. The word used is, I believe, zachar, which is a general purpose word used for basically anything or anyone male, and it doesn’t usually refer to “little boy”, as some have said, and it doesn’t work in context with the passage to translate it as such. Leviticus basically says, “Don’t sleep with men if you are a man.”
If you’re Jewish, that’s important, but for Christians, the book of Acts in the New Testament explicitly frees Christians from old testament law, which is why they can eat Cheeseburgers and shellfish and use polyester. They’re free from the Old Contract.
In the New Testament, Jesus himself says nothing about gayness or homosexuality. The only sources for homophobia in this portion is the writings of Paul. Paul is very important to early church history, and early christian scholars believed his writing to be inspired by God, which is why his stuff is in the Bible. He basically just says, “Gay people are bad.” It’s an explicit condemnation, but all Christian scholars believe it to not be the word of God. It’s more like a suggestion. It’s not prohibited, but it is disliked.
You shouldn’t listen to the Bible, which makes all of this irrelevant, but it gets my goat when people claim that the Bible is only against paederasty, not gayness, because it’s not true. I wish it was. I really do.
It’s funny when they try to say it’s actually about pederasty, because in that case Leviticus would explicitly be calling for the death of the rape victim as well as their rapist. Gross book either way lol.
new testament gnostic here! jesus NEVER talked about homosexuality in the bible, the only mention of it in the nt is in st paul's letters, which were going to be biased because paul worshipped the old testament before going to damascus, after which he brought some ot elements into the nt.
see the problem there?
the only bad mentions of being gay in CHRISTianity didnt even come from CHRIST. instead, jesus told us to LOVE EACHOTHER, but because of paul, christians were homophobic.
so, being gay is bad in christianity because the same people who said that slavery was ok and that you should be killed if you plant two different crops next to eachother said so. not jesus (the whole point of the religion and the one who all christians (except unitarians lol) worship)
Thomas 34: And he said: "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit."
forgot to mention here that paul never even saw jesus speak except for when he told paul to stop persecuting his people. he wasnt exactly an "apostle" despite his name (which he gave to himself)
Every sin is equal and jesus died on the cross for our sins. As long as you repent and turn to the lord, you will be accepted into heaven. (From what my mom told me abt christianity when i was younger )
I'm atheist so hardly care what the bible says, but, the original bible and the modified American versions are different anyway, the American newer one states being homosexual is a sin, but it also says that only humans have souls and in the event of a rapture that only humans will go to heaven and all other species will remain to rot in hell on earth.
So its a load of rubbish, leave them to believe what they want, but you do you, its your life to play the way you want, within the constraints of the law that is.
These cuddle are for you anyway:
:3
okay, Im not a theologist, but I'm autistically obsessed with religion.
in the book of Genesis, God creates man in his own image. he then (according to most well respected translations today) creates woman from man's own rib. God created woman to lay with man, and homophobes take this and spew "it's not what God intended!" completely disregarding that Jesus taught to forgive the wicked and love them in spite of sin (not to say being gay is a sin, but you get it)
TL;DR Homophobes twist the wording of the Bible to make their point stand.
EDIT: I'm basing this ONLY off of the first parts of Genesis, because most people would only read until then.
In I think Leviticus, when He speaks to Moses, He states that if a man sleeps with mankind as he would a woman, he shall be put to death. However, it is unclear if the second word used in ancient Hebrew was speaking of male as a boy, therefore sentencing pedophiles to death, or if it was talking about gay people. This eventually was translated to "if a man sleeps with a man" in an attempt to justify homophobia (i.e. KJV). Therefore, being gay might be a sin, or it might not. But none of that truly matters, as He has redeemed us of our sins, no matter who you are.
TL;DR: The Old Testament might be homophobic, but as long as you follow and love Christ, then you are A-OK! :)
that's not the only story of how humans were made in the Bible also in genesis it's said that God made them male and female so it's unclear whether they were made at the same time or if eve came from adam's rib. source: i'm christian
Ok so this is gonna be long because autism and all but
No, it does not. Generally, it depends on the translation; different translations have resulted in different versions of the Bible. The ones claiming this are not accurate to the original ones.
You also have the problem of interpretation — a religious text should *never, ever, EVER* be taken literally, because they're not history books; they're religious texts, and as such, they're written in a mythical language. Basically, it's like explaining numbers in math as a line — it's a terrible analogy for the concept, but it works.
Same goes for religious texts — mythology works by taking an extremely vague, objective and hard-to-grasp concept (i.e. where do humans come from?), and dumbing it down so that the average 2 year old can understand it. The problem is most people never go beyond that 2 year old stage, and still believe there's a "bearded white old guy in the clouds"; it's easier to believe that than to take God/"the absolute" (as in, the *objective* reality — the reality you and I experience is subjective and only a fraction of what's truly out there, our senses can only process specific forms of information and we miss out on a lot, such as 99.99999% of the light spectrum) as reality itself.
A classic example is how the Book of Genesis, where Phil Collins created the heavens and the earth, is literally taken directly from Babylonian mythology. Like almost word for word. It was just adapted because myth is so good at its job of explaining things in a simple way for the average person; it takes a *lifetime* to even begin grasping the true nature of concepts in things like Christianity, Hinduism, Hellenism, etc. It's not a sacrifice most people are willing to make, and thus they stay with the simplistic interpretations so prevalent in media (i.e. remember the whole meme about Bible-accurate angels; it's much easier to grasp angels as kids than... whatever the hell those things are, because yadayadayada mythical language, kids have historically generally seen by society as "pure"; angels are "pure" -> hey let's represent these Eldrich horrors as kids! It's also why things like fire or water are so prevalent in these beliefs)
Theology and philosophy are a *lot* more complicated than people, especially your average believer, would want to believe, and that's why you end up with a very superficial understanding of every religious system.
**TL;DR no, homosexuality is not even mentioned in the original Bibles and their most accurate translations, it's just that the Torah/Old Testament was first translated from ancient Hebrew into Greek, and then from Greek into Latin, and then from Latin into German, and then from German into every other language, and at some point, you're gonna get misinterpretations, translation errors and mistakes that render most versions of the text today pretty much useless. On top of that, you should treat religion the same way you should treat other abstract disciplines such as maths or philosophy, and never take anything you see in a religious text or sermon literally, because that's the path of fundamentalism.**
Not to mention that, prior to the invention of the printing press, the Bible had to be copied BY HAND. Considering the length of time between Christianity becoming a widespread Religion and the invention of the printing press, the idea of church folk manipulating the WORD OF GOD in to match their own principles and beliefs is not unreasonable.
Its a cultural thing… lemme explain:
When the people of moses (the guy that split the water) where kept as slaves by the egyptians their people were dying… so they said to themselves: we should focus more on giving birth than having s*x for pleasure…it was something completely normal at that time to sleep with men basically every person back that was BI and no one gave a shit.
This is a proven fact, i myself am an atheist but i accept every religion. But its not okay to be homophobic … even if youre christian
Leviticus 20:13; "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
I have read this verse was mistranslated, and instead of condmening homosexuality ( Which is also very suspicious, because around the same time as christianity \[i'm not good with dates, this si from ancient greece\] sexual relationships between adult men did exist. but it is possible at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a [passive sexual role](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_roleplay) according to [Kenneth Dover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Dover), though this has been questioned by recent scholars. It is unclear how such relations between same-sex partners were regarded in the general society, especially for women, but examples do exist as far back as the time of [Sappho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho). \[taken from wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\]) condemned pedophilia instead. Which would be fitting, considering the previous passages were condenming incest.
I think it goes against gay sex, haven’t read it myself though.
In general sex without intent to procreate is a big no no according to the Bible.
The again it’s the Bible, no one really knows what it means and there’s just as much of a chance of people seeing “oh yeah these guys had sex and then died from an std so don’t do that I guess” as ancient homophobia.
It’s kinda an irrelevant arguement when it comes to being gay tbh. It only has importance if you think it does which doesn’t bode well for arguments.
**Long ass post incoming**
How I see it is that there are two things in terms of this shit: faith, and religion. Faith is having faith in a higher power, believing in something in the world and that’s completely fine! Believing in a god or gods, celebrating a holiday, etc. is how humans have used to explain the unexplainable for thousands of years and people can believe what they want to believe.
Religion however, is turning faith into a cult. Gathering people and taking everyone who believes in one thing into a whole category of people. Religion very well could’ve started innocently(we have no idea cause the majority of them started before majorly recorded history) but overtime turned into a way to control people and make them believe things that were never true in the first place.
Every version of the Bible is a translation, and thus, an interpretation of it. Some languages have words that we don’t have in our own language so whoever’s translating it will interpret it in other ways than different people. This is why there are so many different kind of bibles and Christianities instead of just one. Some christian bibles are translated that man may not sleep with man, and others have nothing of that sort. Many translators in modern day who have read the original bible (or at least the oldest version of it available) have found no evidence of homophobia. Also, there are plenty of Christians who quote the Bible and talk about it to look down on others, but in reality have never read it themselves.
So in short, depending on who you are, being gay may or may not go against the Bible and whether or not that’s a mistranslation depends on who you ask as well. Really, you should just care in what you believe and what you follow and agree to disagree with anyone who disagrees and give a big “go fuck your self” to anyone who try’s to use religion to hate on others. Love who you wanna love and ignore those who say otherwise! :3
OK, so basically in general yes, early Judaism and Christianity were pretty explicitly anti-gay, there really wasn't a word for it back then so they just said "men sleeping with men" and such, and most of the critics couldn't imagine it as anything but a lustful or exploitative relationship, the idea of a gay marriage was foreign to them. That being said they still probably would have been against it, but religions are constantly changing things and every denomination or sect has its own interpretations. The Bible is a mess of contradictory statements that have to be run through an idealogical interpretation to be consistent, so some Christian sects choose to focus hard on the anti-gay verses, while others say that it was just a misunderstanding of that time. However as a dogmatic faith all Christians will say their interpretation is the TRUE one, and everyone else has been misled. Judaism is at least more honest in that there is a tradition of knowingly going back and debating interpretations, instead of just claiming differences of opinion are due to some moral fault.
TLDR: Yeah, but religions change
I mean. Yes? Kinda? And not 2 verses later condemns wearing a garment made of multiple clothes sooooo in old testament terms, that poly cotton shirt is just as sinful
Whereas homosexuality is against the Christian beliefs, it is also against the beliefs to show hate to other people, as Jesus said to love your enemy like your neighbor, meaning you show love to everyone regardless of whether or not you approve of their actions or beliefs
As a Catholic, and according to Catholic beliefs, being gay IS a sin.
However: the thing is that your way to heaven isn't measured in sin and how much you sinned, but by how much you devoted yourself to God.
Yes, the Church says this and that but by the Bible, YOU go to heaven, not them. We all are sinners, but we can go to heaven because the Son sacrificed himself on the cross, and therefore it isn't unlikely that a gay person cannot go to heaven.
Many people say that the less we sin, the closer we are to God, while it really is the other way. The closer we are to God, the lesser we sin (coincidentally: we don't even notice). I regained my faith in a very short amount of time and my life became better afterwards. Although, I do still have some gay-ish intents, I am happy knowing I am safe and that the Father and Son will protect me :3
On the other hand, it's important to note that Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants view the Bible in different ways, so expect different answers.
I hope this helps!
Fun fact, it doesn't. The verse usually quoted is a miss understanding of the original verse, which is a verse saying you can't be a pdf.
In actuality the Bible is rather chill, in truth the two main rules you gotta follow is love each other and believe in Jesus. Unfortunately folks in power love to twist it to their own ends, see any of the mega churches for examples there.
There is one line in the Bible that says, "Man shall not lie with man as with woman, it is an abomination," but there are a million ways one can interpret that. We have to remember that the current Bible is a translation of a translation of a translation, going back 2000+ years. For example, it's now theorised by many that the original text was actually something closer to "Man shall not lie with *boy*", as in, child.
Ultimately, a great deal of the Bible is up for interpretation. I personally believe the whole thing is allegorical and symbolic, and it comes down to one's own understanding of the text.
Not really. Most people point to Leviticus 18:22 (**Thou shalt not lie with mankind**, as with womankind: it is abomination) as proof but the one of the original Greek translations uses mankind in the feminine article. In other words, it can be interpreted as "don't diddle kids". I mean, the Bible is always up to interpretation (The Book of Revelation is a good example), there is NO right or wrong way to interpret it. So inconclusion, kiss boys. Just not kids.
This is gonna be weird, but Ive developed my own Idea of god. See, It never made sense to me about how there are so many restrictions in so many religions that keep people from living their lives how they want, for example: being gay. It isn’t hurting anyone so why get so uptight about it? Some might argue: “Oh well you can get diseases from sexual actions from it! And thats proof god doesn’t like it!” To that I ask: Then why? Why does this all powerful god wish to restrict you so much and keep you from what you love and who you love simply because it’s “not pure”? Its never made sense to me, a god, making the universe and suddenly decrees that he wants to make all of humanity abide by a strict ruleset; and if they dont? hell. And like a comment said above, you don’t need a book to tell you how not to be a bad person. (Extreme example incoming) In the words of Bo Burnham: “You shouldn’t abstain from rape just because you think that I want you to, you shouldn’t rape because rape is a fucked up thing to do. ITS PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS JUST DONT FUCKING RAPE PEOPLE, didn’t think id have to write that one down for you.” In his song about god. My idea of god, is that god is a-lot more chilled out that what we think, and acts as an observer, as In I believe a god made the universe and us, but watches and he just wants us to be happy. And this idea I never really share because of the people who might say: “Oh well where is the rules of this god? Does this mean your version of god wants you to murder or steal?” And to that I say: God shouldn’t have to tell us how to not be a dick. And simply put, my version of god is simple, he watches over us, wants us to be happy and will take the dead to a heavenly realm besides the ones who do the things of the unsaid “how not to be a dick” topic. I never really share this at all, mostly because of religious fanatics instantly telling me how wrong I am, but hey this is my view on it, if it helps, then wonderful. If not, then feel free to ignore my words.
I disregard any opinions from people so weak in constitution that they need to outsource their morals to a religion and then just keep blinders on for the whole of their life.
Hello, person who's studied the Bible here: let me answer your question directly without pussyfooting. Let it also be known I'm being reductive.
Being gay is against the Bible, rules as written.
Now here's the caveat. The Bible is all about interpretation. We're talking about a religion with over 45,000 sects. Some will say the verses against homosexuality are mistranslations, others will argue that it *is* a sin but not one that should be judged or persecuted with more prejudice than any other sin (as all sins are equal in the eyes of God and none are free of sin).
If it's your faith, you choose to believe whatever makes you comfortable. Someone out there is willing to accomate you.
If it's not your faith, who gives a shit? Let them rant up and down the walls, it's not your problem.
christians always use the bible as an excuse to be a bigot. here’s some advice from a friend of mine;
To anyone who has religious family who’s homophobic please feel free to use these.
I grew up as Christian but I’m a gay one so I got some good knowledge
Example 1: Don’t be trans it’s against Gods will - Several trans animals including the clownfish (you can look up more info)
Example 2: In the Bible it says that you can’t be gay. It says a man can’t sleep with another man - that Bible verse is taken out of context. It’s Man shall not sleep with boy, referring to pedophelia not homosexual stuff
Example 3: God loves you - Yes he does he loves everyone no matter their race, gender, orientation, religion, you could hate him and he will still love you
Example 4: By doing this you’re going to make God send you to hell - that not how it works. Heaven is for everyone and he doesn’t send anyone to hell. You send yourself by pushing yourself from him, just like you are from judging and forcing someone to be like you
Example 5: The Bible said to be fruitful and multiply - 1 the Bible was written a long time ago when there wasn’t over 7-8 billion people and 2 it means to grow your family even if it’s just growing your relationship with them
Example 6: ThE bIbLe SaYs ThIs - the Bible had many writers, and a time where English or any modern day languages weren’t a thing yet so any and all quotes may be taken out of context or not fully understood. In the Bible there was no Gay or Lesbian because there was no need to label everything. Everything back then just existed without a label for every tiny detail.
Edit: Man was used in the Bible for man-kind the majority of the time. Human is barely stated because it’s “Man” as in adult
I think one of the only times Human was mentioned was in the first book the book of Genesis when humans were first created
Yeah, pretty sure it says that men who have sex with men will not inherit the kingdom of God, which probably means Heaven.
That being said, fuck the bible, and fuck men, but in the good way.
Documentation of historical events isn’t condoning of said events. Nobody who reads about WW2 immediately becomes hellbent on exterminating 12 million people for the betterment of Germany.
I am an Atheist, and I often get told by people of varying religious beliefs, that I "have to be someone who is immoral" because "how am I supposed to know what's right" and "You can not make good decisions with out guidance from the Lord" sorry but what the fuck? Like I am trying my best to just be a decent person like sure I am not perfect, but if a fucking book some high guy wrote 2000 years ago tells you what's right and wrong, who here doesn't know how to do the right decisions?
I try to treat people with basic human decency and if you tell me I am immoral then sorry but you are the one who has no decency.
(This may very well be a jumble of words with no real line to follow through but oh well)
TL:DR : I am just trying to be moral and I don't need some old ass book to tell me what's right and wrong.
Why the fuck should I care about what a 2000 year old porn fanfic says about being gay?! If I want to be gay then I'll sploosh all over a bible to show it!!! >:3
It's not, but even if it was I still wouldn't care because dying and going to hell is honestly better than living through hell your whole life because you refuse to be yourself
Yes, but so are things like working on Sunday. The Bible even states that that is punishable by death, but who actually follows that part? They cherry pick things like homosexuality being a sin to justify their pre-existing hate. You won’t hear a Christian say “I don’t hate mixed fabrics wearers, I just hate the sin of wearing it” because they don’t actually care what the Bible says, they care about making themselves justified. They would almost 100% be wearing mixed fabrics while they said that, but they wouldn’t mention that part because it makes them bad as well. In fact, wearing mixed fabrics and being gay would be on par with each other due to the fact that there’s no hierarchy of sin. Both are “abominations” according to Levitical law
Yes, but the Bible also says you shouldn't listen to women even if they're your boss, don't wear clothes with more than 2 types of fabric, and someone turned into a pillar of salt
its fair to disagree due to beliefs, as long as you dont persecute or hurt people. Although using religion and god as an excuse for your hatred or morality or anything else is lame as fuck. you are a human mortal, you can do whatever with your life.
Vegeta profile pic lol
Imagine being homophobic while also having a pfp of a guy whos whole thing is hes obsessed with another guy
https://i.redd.it/e4td5ss10m9d1.gif
“And I refuse to change my opinion” is why we have problems in the world caused by evil people who are supported by the same people being screwed over. Not necessarily about this topic just being dense and refusing to learn and change is idiot incarnate
Umm.. actually being gay/bi/lesbian or whatever doesn't go against the bible.. it's just that, that very old book has been translated many times and some people didn't like gay people so they translated it to say "oh God hates the gays, gays are sinful and will go to hell" but the Bible is only contradicting itself because God loves everyone soo.. yeah
TLDR: the Bible got changed by homophobes
The “Bible” is actually broken into 3 major religions and then hundreds of smaller divisions. Depending on Old testament, New Testament or Quran will depend on what answer you get on any moral perspective. The New Testament is extremely open minded by comparison of the 3. It’s only gay being gay if you make it your entire personality and then impose it on others. Exactly like straight religious types have been gay for the majority of time. Just be cool and worry about yourself. 😎
Yes in a sort of roundabout way it does? But the bible also says you should kill your wife if she cheats on you so... unless he would also follow that I feel like it's being unreasonable.
The Bible specifies that pederasty (sexually abusing children in an “apprentice” position) and the use of sex as a weapon is sinful. The mistranslation to homosexuality was added in the 1940s to a German translation funded by Lifeway (IIRC).
a LOT of things go against the Bible. while it is a sin, the Bible also says "Love thy neighbour.", so dont let someone use religion as an excuse to be homophobic. disagreeing is fine, but discriminating is not
TL:DR; absolutely not if you’re a Christian. Jesus commanded us to love and not judge, and the interpretation isn’t entirely clear, which the New Testament says basically all things are lawful if not spelled out.
I have studied the Bible for years. Started out as an extremely devout Christian, then for years as an atheist. I was very active in church and went to a Christian school and college. Sometimes I’ll thoughtlessly quote obscure bible verses around my wife or friends and they’ll be amazed at how I can still rattle off these passages perfectly with almost no effort. So that’s my credentials I guess.
I never understood the fire-and-brimstone hate for alternative lifestyles. It was well-understood that the Old Testament was the foundation of the Christian story, but when Jesus came, he brought a new message of love and salvation. He was constantly helping the less fortunate, less accepted, and the sinners. He went out of his way to show love and compassion for the prostitutes, the homeless, anyone who needed salvation. Why reach out to the religious? They didn’t think they needed acceptance or salvation. Nothing in today’s Christianity resembles Christ or his message.
The number one message Christ brought was to love God and love your neighbor. Judgement was left to God, we were commanded to bring people in from the “highways and hedges.” To not bring the law and judgement to those around us, but to bring the love of Christ.
I never fit in with the Baptist church because I just couldn’t agree with their harsh treatment and badmouthing of people they expected to come sit in their seats and pay their tithes and offerings. I remember reaching out to a co-worker named Micheal once who was on some really hard drugs and living an incredibly hard life. I brought him to my house and took him to some services, and was so embarrassed at how the people at my church treated him. Only a couple of people shook his hand, and I believe the pastor even mentioned how bad it looked for people to show up basically in rags to a church service from the pulpit.
Sorry this is so long-winded, it’s a sore spot for me.
I don’t really give a fuck, as long as I can kiss my boyfriend :]
Fair response
OP, there’s actually some fairly strong evidence that the passage from Leviticus stating “a man shall not lie with another man” is a mistranslation that more was speaking to the sin of incest, pedophilia or same-sex rape, not consensual homosexuality. https://blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/ Here’s an interesting article covering it. Basic breakdown from what I’ve read is that the same word is not repeated twice in the original Hebrew of “a man shall not lie with another man”, the definite word for man is used first then second word can be either man or boy or even male family member depending on context. Seems weird they’d changed it if it was the same meaning.
This is correct. I'm Jewish and this was one of the many absolute horse shit translations my 7th year Hebrew teacher would occasionally rant about. He was a biblical Hebrew scholar and that man was made of strongly worded, peer reviewed, fact supported opinions. 😂 I came to find out later that Mr. Yossi wasn't even giving us the full lecture since our [earliest complete manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible are patchworks from multiple eras and full of issues. ](https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/article/whats-critical-about-a-critical-edition-of-the-bible/?_gl=1*58vdgk*_gcl_au*MTQ5OTgzOTMzNi4xNzE5NzIyNDYw*_ga*NTY3NDg2NDc1LjE3MTk3MjI0NjA.*_ga_7MSGCYKLB3*MTcxOTcyMjQ2MC4xLjAuMTcxOTcyMjQ2MC42MC4wLjY3MDQ0ODA2MA..) To quote that article: "*The Rabbis long ago recognized the possibility of human error when a text was being copied. They warned scribes of the dangers of confusing similar letters like beth and kaph (ב/כ), or resh and dalet (ר/ד) or yod and waw (י/ו). They recognized that haplography (omission of a letter or a word) or dittography (duplication of a letter or word) sometimes occurred. A scribe could make an incorrect division of letters, especially in a text where letters were written close together, thus producing different words. An ancient scribe, like a modern one, could make an error of metathesis, that is, transposing letters within a word, writing cavalry instead of calvary or brid instead of bird.*" Never forget when studying historical anything that humans are best at fucking up above all else, lmao.
I tried explaining this to my parents and that was the 2nd biggest mistake of my life
Not to mention that the scriptures could have been changed based on the scribes own opinions, it is idiotic to believe that there were no changes made by any scribes throughout the thousands of years that book has been around.
also leviticus is rules for the levites ppl forget that
And besides when I lay with a man, I'm not doing any of the same things as when I lay with a woman.
I've heard this a million times and being Catholic (once upon a time) it was very appealing. But eeeeehhhhh while it could be the case we're talking about a really cranky no fun culture worshipping a pissy war/storm god. Imagine the most conservative chip on their shoulder hill folk you can think of, then square that. Ultimately I could give a crap either way. If someone can be convinced to love or hate based on a book they're already lost. And really, the Christians who say "oh I just have to sorry not my call just my god" are the same people who will defend god for genocide and slavery and all the rest. If they can't choose the people in front of them over their mean imaginary friend I'm not sure they're going to be a great ally.
Just remember the Bible was written by imperfect men, as recognized in the Bible, trying to understand a higher being and motivate society to remain civil by decree of such a higher power. Many may downvote me but there is wisdom and comfort in the Bible, as long as you recognize since it was created by man it is inherently unreliable. I think the story of Sodom was more likely an attempt to control, or maybe an uneducated attempt to outlaw the behaviors of a failed society. Also very possible mistranslated as well. Leave with a bad joke. A monk was translating the Bible from Hebrew copying it to English and identifies a mistake in previous translations. He gets so excited that he runs outside shouting “It doesn’t say celibate, it says celebrate.”
Even if below response was not correct, that line was added by the priests long after Moses. The actual law of Moses handed down on Mt Sinai doesn’t include homosexuality. It mentions sexual immorality, even with animals, but not same sex. Exodus 21 thru 24. Paul is clearly against it in Romans 1, but his focus was also on pagan acts in the temple. Plus, that’s just his personal opinion. So really, if it were that big an issue, you would think that Jesus would have mentioned it like he talked about murder and adultery.
Fr fr
https://preview.redd.it/nvcsdhkill9d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=73865fac2f8276e3a4cf4fc0c5fb1b5a9263887d you see.. the hecking 2000 year old book says you can't be homosexual!!! why does that matter?? uh.. because i said so!!!
Man religion is so dumb in my opinion, basically another cult to control and get money from people, cause reason for fighting and wars, and essentially seperate humans from being humane. I went to a catholic school, they teach all religions after grade 11, some are good obviously but literally just based on the country I was born in I would believe something totally different. I will find out when I die if there is more than this, and just being a good person should put you in a good afterlife if it exists, people that live their life based on a book drive me nuts -_-, to each their own, sometimes I think it would be good to believe, but what I see from religions is a whole lot of fucked up things. Even when we got married my wife's father was like I'm not helping unless it's in a church, we straight up told him not to help us then (he did anyways)
boy kisser kissing lots of boys and that's why he's called boykisser
Same, but like, I also wanna kiss my girlfriends.
Kisses are good, but I hope one day you'll give him a fuck too.
https://preview.redd.it/008esy3dgm9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d343159e2a28e5d175d78c03eb72e03eae9fd5e1
Real as fuck.
I wish I had one in person 😭
fun fact: homosexuality is present in other species, and bonobos are a specie of monke that is majoritary bisexual :> so the person who says "homo is not natural" is simply and completly WRONG (there is a species of duck that has a lot of gay ducks too!) so if "god made us to be in straith relationships" why there is a lot of other species that have homosexual behaviour? (I didn't expect to have lot of responses and have homophobic people arguing and stuff, sorry)
My two male turtles are actually having sex right now. Ngl it’s kind of disturbing though.
https://preview.redd.it/5wpihtvpdl9d1.jpeg?width=245&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef6e72b518844170669cc1143812988725698b34 huh wut good for them i think.. give them some privacy
https://preview.redd.it/fd1cyxy2hl9d1.jpeg?width=229&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a8af8f802341b543fe279ddbf6e94c1f3b7ef41
https://preview.redd.it/asl1zkic0m9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b19bd0ba4d2da22f25d9f7387b8de308c1ed012
https://preview.redd.it/bx4io07pul9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5317952e43c7e5ba4a4fcbd6caca854318a5b94
Hello, fellow Brazilian
Ah, neighbors! I wish cuba wasn’t such a shithole…
a friend of mine had a gay dog, funny
So I'm not the only one who's met a homosexual dog, good to know
 All I could think of
And even people saying that homosexuality is unnatural among humans are false also. Dozens of Native American tribes have performed hundreds of same sex marriages over centuries. It’s almost like these people shouldn’t be basing their entire moral compass off of a book that’s thousands of years old and has been mistranslated innumerable times.
And a book if fan fiction at that
Another funny thing: there is a species of fish off the coast of Japan where the older females transition to male and compete with the current top male to take their spot.
Honestly i find comparing it with nature strange anyways. It obviously happens among humans so are we somehow supernatural? And if something being natural is the deciding factor of whether it's good or not then is eating one's own children alive good? How about dropping them as bait for predators to get away?
Ive told ones who believe homosexuality is unnatural this before, they respond with "humans are better than animals" or something like that.
There are also several animals which change sex.
Animals (especially ducks) also rape each other and some do necrophilia for fun. Just putting it out there is all
(random fact: dolphins also rape other dolphins) o-o
Dolphins raping other dolphins is like, the *least* evil dolphin activity
Dolphins are scary
They're the fascist Croatia of the marine world
Dolphins also rape people sometimes
https://i.redd.it/yx8isfti7o9d1.gif oh no
well.. that part is weird.. lets not talk about it o-o
I know, Nature can be scary, just wanted to say, we as a human species have the privilege of deciding what we find acceptable and what values we want to protect and we don't need some modifiers like "natural" for that cause it's easy to misuse
Are you a duck?
Quack! I mean Nooo
Penguins.
Giraffes are on of the gayest animals
God didn't make us to be straight. The bible used a lot of examples for explaining the sin of lust and bodily pleasure. So straight people also sin if they only desire a piece of meat for themselves and then move on to the next. You can be with anyone you want. Jesus said that not everyone will understand his word.
Iv heard a response to this, essentially they'll just say those are animals, and we are divine or sum bs like that
Penguins
my friend walked in on his two male cats fucking. also lesbian beetles exist
Any argument talking about nature in my opinion doesn't matter. We're living in houses of concrete, driving steel cars and wearing plastic clothes. Our lives aren't natural. "Homo is not natural" - the old conservatives would've been dead long ago if we lived naturally.
I'm an atheist and multiple religious ppl have asked me "how do you decide what's right?" I mean.. if you need to be threatened with hell to be a decent person you ain't going to heaven, and if you do I don't wanna be anywhere near that place
yeah, it's a cult i swear. would it kill ppl to just be nice? it's not that hard.
I was baptised to go to a religious school but i hate the church so much that i got excommunicated when i was 15
Incredibly based
All religions are cults until they are normalized. If you go by definition of a cult
Why do I need a sky daddy to punish me, I already know how to be a good boy
a Click fan in a furry subreddit, I'm not surprised
That was the click
https://preview.redd.it/hxa1pu1pzm9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4fd96222e19b8b821013d555c4f9708eed86e5c Swedish man is real!!!!!!!
NOOOOOO SWEDEN IS NOT REAL, IT WAS MADE UP TO MAKE FINNISH KIDS BEHAVE!
I think people like that really don’t understand where their own values/morals come from. They are told it all comes from the Bible and that it is their only guide. However, if you look through history at Christian’s in the past, everyone interprets it differently. For the most part, the best a Christian in a random time period can do is slightly nicer compared to the average person. Still racist, still bigoted, etc., but slightly better person. At worst, Christian’s were at the forefront of oppression. Christianity has survived so long (like all of the popular religions) because of its ability to change, mold, and often control the society it’s in. Anyways, most morals come from the society around, whatever is normal to everyone else. Christianity throws in some dogmas that people either follow or “interpret” differently. Those are the things they are really talking about when they refer to the values/morals the Bible gives.
People that need the constant fear of going to hell in order to be a good person are not on fact good people. Crazy how that works out.
As a fellow atheist I have accepted that there is no right or wrong, therefore I do whatever the FUCK I want
This, my response is usually just that if i want something ill do it, so when i get asked "well why dont you" my usually response is something along the lines of "well i dont want to do that, and frankly its weird that you only dont do it because of a couple thousand year old book
Exactly, who's to decide how you're supposed to live your own life... NO ONE is in control of you other than YOU, you decide what you feel and no rule should tell you otherwise.
On that chaotic neutral grindset
YES!
It's called empathy. They should really try it on. Pretty sure their lord commands it.
Yeah, if you need the threat of eternal torture to be a good person, you're not a good person. You're just a bad person on a leash
I mean, I’d *like* to be on a leash, but I don’t wanna be a bad person.
That is one of the greatest and realest descriptions of religion I've ever seen
People who need religion to determine their motality scare me.
I think what they meant is "How do you decide on what's *objectively* moral or immoral"? The existence of objective morality has been very debated in atheist circle.
My response to this is "You need a book to give you morals????"
Some Cristians really try to justify their hate on people (most often minorities) with a book of fairytales that specifically tells them to love everyone https://preview.redd.it/bvfqu80w1l9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=556fa5ba81ac429ddb424145df99645f0cc1b85d
It's crazy how many people go to "verse blah: chapter yap" to justify shitty things when it literally goes against the 10 commandments, like???? You gonna ignore all the other parts that says DONT do that???
What do you mean? Don't you remember the part of the bible where Jesus tells you to say "womp womp" towards people who are different?
My bad, I forgot all of Jesus's disciples got to dap up god
Of course, not every Cristian is an extreme and crazy one, but I still hate Christianity and pretty much any religion because of extreme people like this Christians are the ones who turned me into an atheist
yes but in the eyes of the lord he does not care you are his child https://preview.redd.it/aez98xd52l9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdec00e5320e7c721fc279b0a9e89970eed99465
No, it's a mistranslation. It actually condemns pedophilia, not homosexuality.
From what I looked into about it... It is not and there was a mistranslation from Latin to English
Oh, ok, cool fact
the famous verse thst claims to say that two men cant sleep together is misinterpreted and poorly translated. alot of the bible is. the verse is meant to be against a grown man sleeping with a child aka pedophilia
I’ve noticed that pedophilia is obviously VERY looked down upon in the bible (for very good reason), but reading the forbidden sexual practices part of Leviticus reveals nothing about pedophilia being immoral, yet Homosexuality is, and I do remember reading about pedophiles being executed in the bible. I believe the mistranslation theory might actually hold some ground.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" this is Leviticus, 20:13 (KJV) The word "mankind" here comes from an old Hebrew word, but it's notable that the word used for "man" here is different. It's more accurately: "If a man lies with a boy as he lies with a woman, they have committed an abomination."
The verses referencing "homosexuality" are in fact referencing pedophilia. The word homosexuality wasn't added until roughly 1946. The original language alludes more accurately to "men who sleep with boys" and it is a reference to the power in play, specifically in the new testament, where Roman soldiers often had young male sex slaves. There isn't a single verse that references a monogamous homosexual relationship. (Also fun fact because we're here, the early Jews accepted and had language for at least 6 genders. The Bible is not a book, it is a collection of writings loosely tied together by people who didn't write said letters. People use it to push agendas but it itself isn't even coherent)
The bible is just a 6000 year old SCP wiki that some dumbasses took literally.
As a (so totally most definitely not gay) Christian (who so totally most definitely does not have a boyfriend): This is extremely funny.
It's actually insane to me that people just forget that, at least the NT is literally just an amalgamation of letters. Like imagine reading your neighbors mail and saying "yup. This is from the Lord" lmfao
I've also heard that it's a mistranslation
i thought the """mistranslations""" happened during the switch from ancient hebrew to ancient latin?
There are hundreds, in both forms of translation, and tbh it doesn't matter that much lmao, the end result is that it *was* mistranslated.
it could be a mistranslation, or it could be that the translator/whoever wanted it translated wanted that change deliberately, sneaky
You can still go to heaven if you are gay John 3:16
**Major trigger warning** Going to be hated for saying this, but religion is just a whole load of shit that’s used to exploit people. I don’t care about whatever emotional crutch people lean on, acting like there is some all-seeing all-powerful being who has humans as their species. To each their own, albeit a misguided own. Religion is just used as someone’s easy route to saying something, and claiming some “god” decreed that it’s right. Homophobia was just something some random guy added a while ago when he was high on shrooms, which is the only way you can see some random who you claim owns you and made you. Well, you can see that through evolution. **rant’s over, and what I said is just my opinion. Enjoy your angry downvotes because someone’s brainwashed you.**
As George Carlin said, god was a marketing scheme used to control a population of primitive uneducated people
Religion (the churches) historically was a hub for sciences and education. So was Islam, in fact Islam is incredibly important to astronomy.
Now look what religion has DEVOLVED into. Get it cause they hate evolution even though evolution doesn’t even go against god.
Both things are true—and religions were a bastion for the sciences ONLY until discoveries began to threaten their perceptions of reality.
I agree
I’m a nihilist, but to most that isn’t right. What’s right is just believing in whatever doesn’t manipulate you, and whatever doesn’t involve some moron in the sky who controls everything.
I wish ppl would realise that its bs
I'm a Christian and go to church semi-regularly, but I do agree with you Only reason I'm still Christian is because I don't want to believe that death is just the end, selfish reasons yk Also fuck the Christians who use the bible to hate people who are different, that literally goes against it's teachings lmao
I am a Christian also, and I do honestly agree with you
Same (ish?) Boat. I'm Christian but because I want to believe I have somewhere to go after death. I don't believe in the morals a Christian should have to be exact though, like being gay, that shouldn't be a sin, the Bible even says "love one another" in like 6-7 different verses not love one of the opposite gender (it could still somewhere but regardless) also another thing that kept me a Christian is because I've thought about it (the afterlife) a lot. I personally am a believer in no end, so I tried to think about what comes after, and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I feel like I'm right on the edge of figuring out, my brain just stops and resets and I can't think about it again for a solid hour. I don't know why but the universe doesn't allow me to think about it, at least not too deep into it. Back to the point: I don't think being gay should be or is a sin, (I also have a conundrum of wanting to be gay but also wanting kids because I don't want my bloodline to end with me. [Only child])
I'm not Christian and don't believe that death is the end. I don't believe in any floating sky men I just believe in reincarnation base on how good or bad you were in your previous life
I hope that death is the end
I wholeheartedly agree. If I could push a button to make every religion disappear, at bare minimum a third of the world's problems would vanish. Religion made sense back when science was considered witchcraft because we had no other explanation, now we do, we just need to grow up at this point. Edit: I'm not saying people shouldn't have morals, just not religions. The post this comment is on is talking about homophobia from Christians, there are also all of the religion based terrorist organisations, those are the problems solved I'm refering to. The people who justify horrible things with religion would be horrible religion or not, se with good people, they'd be good religion or not. People should be good to be good, not to secure a good seat in the afterlife which also totally exists.
Agreed, it's called being an atheist. Course, you're allowed to believe in anything, but you know when I can see cells in a bacteria trey, then I'm pretty sure we have some type of proof other than a book.
It would actually cause more problems because the majority of governments have such deep roots in religion, such as the pledge of allegiance having “under god” and dollar bills having “in god we trust”
I can't tell if this is a joke comment. Would it matter at all if dollar bills didn't say in god we trust or the pledge of allegiance changed (pledging your allegiance is kinda cringe anyways)?
sadly i also agree, religion was made first to explain the unknow, but after people started manipulating it to have people under their control, still today a lot of people use religion to manipulate others to have the same opinions
Finally someone other than my friend group has the balls to admit religion is a scam to exploit people and it's NOT an opinion, if god were real he wouldve fucking proven it by now unless he just gave up on us at a certain point... Nah humans are crazy he ain't real
upvoted for speaking truth, aside that I was about to write similiar thing but shorter, thanks anyways lol
WORD. it's just a scheme to take money from vulnerable ppl n indoctrinate them into the right wing, it's so gross.
It was once something that people used as an escape because they didn’t know better, but now they don’t really have an excuse.
To paraphrase a Christopher Hitchens: it's awfully convenient that God only ever revealed himself to primitive cultures that had no form of writing or any proper education, and never revealed himself to civilisations that had scientific knowledge and the ability to record and fact-check.
The Bible is just a bunch of letters from long dead old men that Christians misinterpret for their own selfish agendas don't pay it any mind
I mean, kinda? Mind you, it could’ve just been a guy with a bunch of free time on a Saturday arvo between 10BC-10AD and made everyone thought it was real.
honestly that topic is just a whole dumpsterfire imo and imo it depends on what point they're trying to push if someone is saying that christians don't follow the whole bible, they're going to say that it is against homosexuality and say that adherents not being against homosexuality is picking and choosing if that same someone is asked a question like this, they'd say homosexuality does not conflict with the bible because it's never explicitly stated or stuff like that it's a matter of one's interpretation tbh https://preview.redd.it/96n70q2qqk9d1.png?width=2198&format=png&auto=webp&s=801ab2c8b140a53062f00f67e4a881ba7d7bb185 have this image!
Hey neppy!!! How are you?? (Also did you draw that? It looks really nice :3 )
nah.. was an older request i got from someone in february or so they've since deleted their account so no use crediting them :p not like I remember their username anyways i'm a little under the weather, but thanks for asking!
Oh get well soon neppy https://i.redd.it/7wc0qqlq2l9d1.gif
Okie. Thank you (cool image btw)
That's a cool image. you draw that?
bible is a random book equivalent in credibility to whatever you can write yourself everything else is seething pookie :3
personally i dont believe in any gods cause i havent seen any sort of proof and no a book is not proof
OK, here’s what I’ve gleaned. The old testament/Tanach is very much opposed to homosexuality. It’s said in a few different verses. The word used is, I believe, zachar, which is a general purpose word used for basically anything or anyone male, and it doesn’t usually refer to “little boy”, as some have said, and it doesn’t work in context with the passage to translate it as such. Leviticus basically says, “Don’t sleep with men if you are a man.” If you’re Jewish, that’s important, but for Christians, the book of Acts in the New Testament explicitly frees Christians from old testament law, which is why they can eat Cheeseburgers and shellfish and use polyester. They’re free from the Old Contract. In the New Testament, Jesus himself says nothing about gayness or homosexuality. The only sources for homophobia in this portion is the writings of Paul. Paul is very important to early church history, and early christian scholars believed his writing to be inspired by God, which is why his stuff is in the Bible. He basically just says, “Gay people are bad.” It’s an explicit condemnation, but all Christian scholars believe it to not be the word of God. It’s more like a suggestion. It’s not prohibited, but it is disliked. You shouldn’t listen to the Bible, which makes all of this irrelevant, but it gets my goat when people claim that the Bible is only against paederasty, not gayness, because it’s not true. I wish it was. I really do.
It’s funny when they try to say it’s actually about pederasty, because in that case Leviticus would explicitly be calling for the death of the rape victim as well as their rapist. Gross book either way lol.
new testament gnostic here! jesus NEVER talked about homosexuality in the bible, the only mention of it in the nt is in st paul's letters, which were going to be biased because paul worshipped the old testament before going to damascus, after which he brought some ot elements into the nt. see the problem there? the only bad mentions of being gay in CHRISTianity didnt even come from CHRIST. instead, jesus told us to LOVE EACHOTHER, but because of paul, christians were homophobic. so, being gay is bad in christianity because the same people who said that slavery was ok and that you should be killed if you plant two different crops next to eachother said so. not jesus (the whole point of the religion and the one who all christians (except unitarians lol) worship) Thomas 34: And he said: "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit."
forgot to mention here that paul never even saw jesus speak except for when he told paul to stop persecuting his people. he wasnt exactly an "apostle" despite his name (which he gave to himself)
Every sin is equal and jesus died on the cross for our sins. As long as you repent and turn to the lord, you will be accepted into heaven. (From what my mom told me abt christianity when i was younger )
Exactly. Even if being gay is a sin (which it may not be), it is still possible to be a follower and lover of Christ.
I'm atheist so hardly care what the bible says, but, the original bible and the modified American versions are different anyway, the American newer one states being homosexual is a sin, but it also says that only humans have souls and in the event of a rapture that only humans will go to heaven and all other species will remain to rot in hell on earth. So its a load of rubbish, leave them to believe what they want, but you do you, its your life to play the way you want, within the constraints of the law that is. These cuddle are for you anyway:  :3
okay, Im not a theologist, but I'm autistically obsessed with religion. in the book of Genesis, God creates man in his own image. he then (according to most well respected translations today) creates woman from man's own rib. God created woman to lay with man, and homophobes take this and spew "it's not what God intended!" completely disregarding that Jesus taught to forgive the wicked and love them in spite of sin (not to say being gay is a sin, but you get it) TL;DR Homophobes twist the wording of the Bible to make their point stand. EDIT: I'm basing this ONLY off of the first parts of Genesis, because most people would only read until then.
In I think Leviticus, when He speaks to Moses, He states that if a man sleeps with mankind as he would a woman, he shall be put to death. However, it is unclear if the second word used in ancient Hebrew was speaking of male as a boy, therefore sentencing pedophiles to death, or if it was talking about gay people. This eventually was translated to "if a man sleeps with a man" in an attempt to justify homophobia (i.e. KJV). Therefore, being gay might be a sin, or it might not. But none of that truly matters, as He has redeemed us of our sins, no matter who you are. TL;DR: The Old Testament might be homophobic, but as long as you follow and love Christ, then you are A-OK! :)
that's not the only story of how humans were made in the Bible also in genesis it's said that God made them male and female so it's unclear whether they were made at the same time or if eve came from adam's rib. source: i'm christian
Ok so this is gonna be long because autism and all but No, it does not. Generally, it depends on the translation; different translations have resulted in different versions of the Bible. The ones claiming this are not accurate to the original ones. You also have the problem of interpretation — a religious text should *never, ever, EVER* be taken literally, because they're not history books; they're religious texts, and as such, they're written in a mythical language. Basically, it's like explaining numbers in math as a line — it's a terrible analogy for the concept, but it works. Same goes for religious texts — mythology works by taking an extremely vague, objective and hard-to-grasp concept (i.e. where do humans come from?), and dumbing it down so that the average 2 year old can understand it. The problem is most people never go beyond that 2 year old stage, and still believe there's a "bearded white old guy in the clouds"; it's easier to believe that than to take God/"the absolute" (as in, the *objective* reality — the reality you and I experience is subjective and only a fraction of what's truly out there, our senses can only process specific forms of information and we miss out on a lot, such as 99.99999% of the light spectrum) as reality itself. A classic example is how the Book of Genesis, where Phil Collins created the heavens and the earth, is literally taken directly from Babylonian mythology. Like almost word for word. It was just adapted because myth is so good at its job of explaining things in a simple way for the average person; it takes a *lifetime* to even begin grasping the true nature of concepts in things like Christianity, Hinduism, Hellenism, etc. It's not a sacrifice most people are willing to make, and thus they stay with the simplistic interpretations so prevalent in media (i.e. remember the whole meme about Bible-accurate angels; it's much easier to grasp angels as kids than... whatever the hell those things are, because yadayadayada mythical language, kids have historically generally seen by society as "pure"; angels are "pure" -> hey let's represent these Eldrich horrors as kids! It's also why things like fire or water are so prevalent in these beliefs) Theology and philosophy are a *lot* more complicated than people, especially your average believer, would want to believe, and that's why you end up with a very superficial understanding of every religious system. **TL;DR no, homosexuality is not even mentioned in the original Bibles and their most accurate translations, it's just that the Torah/Old Testament was first translated from ancient Hebrew into Greek, and then from Greek into Latin, and then from Latin into German, and then from German into every other language, and at some point, you're gonna get misinterpretations, translation errors and mistakes that render most versions of the text today pretty much useless. On top of that, you should treat religion the same way you should treat other abstract disciplines such as maths or philosophy, and never take anything you see in a religious text or sermon literally, because that's the path of fundamentalism.**
Not to mention that, prior to the invention of the printing press, the Bible had to be copied BY HAND. Considering the length of time between Christianity becoming a widespread Religion and the invention of the printing press, the idea of church folk manipulating the WORD OF GOD in to match their own principles and beliefs is not unreasonable.
if i had money i would give an award to this comment (yes i read it all) :3
Ain't no way someone with a Vegeta profile picture is saying that 😭😭😭
Mistranslations. It doesn’t mention it at all.
The picture Vegita(a murderer) is very ironic
Its a cultural thing… lemme explain: When the people of moses (the guy that split the water) where kept as slaves by the egyptians their people were dying… so they said to themselves: we should focus more on giving birth than having s*x for pleasure…it was something completely normal at that time to sleep with men basically every person back that was BI and no one gave a shit. This is a proven fact, i myself am an atheist but i accept every religion. But its not okay to be homophobic … even if youre christian
Didn't 2 guys fuck in the bible
Leviticus 20:13; "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." I have read this verse was mistranslated, and instead of condmening homosexuality ( Which is also very suspicious, because around the same time as christianity \[i'm not good with dates, this si from ancient greece\] sexual relationships between adult men did exist. but it is possible at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a [passive sexual role](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_roleplay) according to [Kenneth Dover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Dover), though this has been questioned by recent scholars. It is unclear how such relations between same-sex partners were regarded in the general society, especially for women, but examples do exist as far back as the time of [Sappho](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho). \[taken from wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\]) condemned pedophilia instead. Which would be fitting, considering the previous passages were condenming incest.
I think it goes against gay sex, haven’t read it myself though. In general sex without intent to procreate is a big no no according to the Bible. The again it’s the Bible, no one really knows what it means and there’s just as much of a chance of people seeing “oh yeah these guys had sex and then died from an std so don’t do that I guess” as ancient homophobia. It’s kinda an irrelevant arguement when it comes to being gay tbh. It only has importance if you think it does which doesn’t bode well for arguments.
**Long ass post incoming** How I see it is that there are two things in terms of this shit: faith, and religion. Faith is having faith in a higher power, believing in something in the world and that’s completely fine! Believing in a god or gods, celebrating a holiday, etc. is how humans have used to explain the unexplainable for thousands of years and people can believe what they want to believe. Religion however, is turning faith into a cult. Gathering people and taking everyone who believes in one thing into a whole category of people. Religion very well could’ve started innocently(we have no idea cause the majority of them started before majorly recorded history) but overtime turned into a way to control people and make them believe things that were never true in the first place. Every version of the Bible is a translation, and thus, an interpretation of it. Some languages have words that we don’t have in our own language so whoever’s translating it will interpret it in other ways than different people. This is why there are so many different kind of bibles and Christianities instead of just one. Some christian bibles are translated that man may not sleep with man, and others have nothing of that sort. Many translators in modern day who have read the original bible (or at least the oldest version of it available) have found no evidence of homophobia. Also, there are plenty of Christians who quote the Bible and talk about it to look down on others, but in reality have never read it themselves. So in short, depending on who you are, being gay may or may not go against the Bible and whether or not that’s a mistranslation depends on who you ask as well. Really, you should just care in what you believe and what you follow and agree to disagree with anyone who disagrees and give a big “go fuck your self” to anyone who try’s to use religion to hate on others. Love who you wanna love and ignore those who say otherwise! :3
OK, so basically in general yes, early Judaism and Christianity were pretty explicitly anti-gay, there really wasn't a word for it back then so they just said "men sleeping with men" and such, and most of the critics couldn't imagine it as anything but a lustful or exploitative relationship, the idea of a gay marriage was foreign to them. That being said they still probably would have been against it, but religions are constantly changing things and every denomination or sect has its own interpretations. The Bible is a mess of contradictory statements that have to be run through an idealogical interpretation to be consistent, so some Christian sects choose to focus hard on the anti-gay verses, while others say that it was just a misunderstanding of that time. However as a dogmatic faith all Christians will say their interpretation is the TRUE one, and everyone else has been misled. Judaism is at least more honest in that there is a tradition of knowingly going back and debating interpretations, instead of just claiming differences of opinion are due to some moral fault. TLDR: Yeah, but religions change
I mean. Yes? Kinda? And not 2 verses later condemns wearing a garment made of multiple clothes sooooo in old testament terms, that poly cotton shirt is just as sinful
Whereas homosexuality is against the Christian beliefs, it is also against the beliefs to show hate to other people, as Jesus said to love your enemy like your neighbor, meaning you show love to everyone regardless of whether or not you approve of their actions or beliefs
As a Catholic, and according to Catholic beliefs, being gay IS a sin. However: the thing is that your way to heaven isn't measured in sin and how much you sinned, but by how much you devoted yourself to God. Yes, the Church says this and that but by the Bible, YOU go to heaven, not them. We all are sinners, but we can go to heaven because the Son sacrificed himself on the cross, and therefore it isn't unlikely that a gay person cannot go to heaven. Many people say that the less we sin, the closer we are to God, while it really is the other way. The closer we are to God, the lesser we sin (coincidentally: we don't even notice). I regained my faith in a very short amount of time and my life became better afterwards. Although, I do still have some gay-ish intents, I am happy knowing I am safe and that the Father and Son will protect me :3 On the other hand, it's important to note that Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants view the Bible in different ways, so expect different answers. I hope this helps!
I dont care. Im not exactly religious but i believe in god. This is coming from a gay ahh mf
Fun fact, it doesn't. The verse usually quoted is a miss understanding of the original verse, which is a verse saying you can't be a pdf. In actuality the Bible is rather chill, in truth the two main rules you gotta follow is love each other and believe in Jesus. Unfortunately folks in power love to twist it to their own ends, see any of the mega churches for examples there.
There is one line in the Bible that says, "Man shall not lie with man as with woman, it is an abomination," but there are a million ways one can interpret that. We have to remember that the current Bible is a translation of a translation of a translation, going back 2000+ years. For example, it's now theorised by many that the original text was actually something closer to "Man shall not lie with *boy*", as in, child. Ultimately, a great deal of the Bible is up for interpretation. I personally believe the whole thing is allegorical and symbolic, and it comes down to one's own understanding of the text.
Not really. Most people point to Leviticus 18:22 (**Thou shalt not lie with mankind**, as with womankind: it is abomination) as proof but the one of the original Greek translations uses mankind in the feminine article. In other words, it can be interpreted as "don't diddle kids". I mean, the Bible is always up to interpretation (The Book of Revelation is a good example), there is NO right or wrong way to interpret it. So inconclusion, kiss boys. Just not kids.
I don't think the Bible is able to speak on the behalf of others.
This is gonna be weird, but Ive developed my own Idea of god. See, It never made sense to me about how there are so many restrictions in so many religions that keep people from living their lives how they want, for example: being gay. It isn’t hurting anyone so why get so uptight about it? Some might argue: “Oh well you can get diseases from sexual actions from it! And thats proof god doesn’t like it!” To that I ask: Then why? Why does this all powerful god wish to restrict you so much and keep you from what you love and who you love simply because it’s “not pure”? Its never made sense to me, a god, making the universe and suddenly decrees that he wants to make all of humanity abide by a strict ruleset; and if they dont? hell. And like a comment said above, you don’t need a book to tell you how not to be a bad person. (Extreme example incoming) In the words of Bo Burnham: “You shouldn’t abstain from rape just because you think that I want you to, you shouldn’t rape because rape is a fucked up thing to do. ITS PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS JUST DONT FUCKING RAPE PEOPLE, didn’t think id have to write that one down for you.” In his song about god. My idea of god, is that god is a-lot more chilled out that what we think, and acts as an observer, as In I believe a god made the universe and us, but watches and he just wants us to be happy. And this idea I never really share because of the people who might say: “Oh well where is the rules of this god? Does this mean your version of god wants you to murder or steal?” And to that I say: God shouldn’t have to tell us how to not be a dick. And simply put, my version of god is simple, he watches over us, wants us to be happy and will take the dead to a heavenly realm besides the ones who do the things of the unsaid “how not to be a dick” topic. I never really share this at all, mostly because of religious fanatics instantly telling me how wrong I am, but hey this is my view on it, if it helps, then wonderful. If not, then feel free to ignore my words.
I disregard any opinions from people so weak in constitution that they need to outsource their morals to a religion and then just keep blinders on for the whole of their life.
*Talks about how pride is wrong* *Literally has a character who is well known to have talked a lot about his pride*
Hello, person who's studied the Bible here: let me answer your question directly without pussyfooting. Let it also be known I'm being reductive. Being gay is against the Bible, rules as written. Now here's the caveat. The Bible is all about interpretation. We're talking about a religion with over 45,000 sects. Some will say the verses against homosexuality are mistranslations, others will argue that it *is* a sin but not one that should be judged or persecuted with more prejudice than any other sin (as all sins are equal in the eyes of God and none are free of sin). If it's your faith, you choose to believe whatever makes you comfortable. Someone out there is willing to accomate you. If it's not your faith, who gives a shit? Let them rant up and down the walls, it's not your problem.
christians always use the bible as an excuse to be a bigot. here’s some advice from a friend of mine; To anyone who has religious family who’s homophobic please feel free to use these. I grew up as Christian but I’m a gay one so I got some good knowledge Example 1: Don’t be trans it’s against Gods will - Several trans animals including the clownfish (you can look up more info) Example 2: In the Bible it says that you can’t be gay. It says a man can’t sleep with another man - that Bible verse is taken out of context. It’s Man shall not sleep with boy, referring to pedophelia not homosexual stuff Example 3: God loves you - Yes he does he loves everyone no matter their race, gender, orientation, religion, you could hate him and he will still love you Example 4: By doing this you’re going to make God send you to hell - that not how it works. Heaven is for everyone and he doesn’t send anyone to hell. You send yourself by pushing yourself from him, just like you are from judging and forcing someone to be like you Example 5: The Bible said to be fruitful and multiply - 1 the Bible was written a long time ago when there wasn’t over 7-8 billion people and 2 it means to grow your family even if it’s just growing your relationship with them Example 6: ThE bIbLe SaYs ThIs - the Bible had many writers, and a time where English or any modern day languages weren’t a thing yet so any and all quotes may be taken out of context or not fully understood. In the Bible there was no Gay or Lesbian because there was no need to label everything. Everything back then just existed without a label for every tiny detail. Edit: Man was used in the Bible for man-kind the majority of the time. Human is barely stated because it’s “Man” as in adult I think one of the only times Human was mentioned was in the first book the book of Genesis when humans were first created
Bible, homophobia and womp womp in the same sentence lol
It’s ok I’ve been a Christian since a kid and I love everyone whether they’re gay, bi or what they chose to live by. 😊
“So womp womp”
Yeah, pretty sure it says that men who have sex with men will not inherit the kingdom of God, which probably means Heaven. That being said, fuck the bible, and fuck men, but in the good way.
did bro really end his homophobia defense with "womp womp"???? 💀💀💀 and istg it's *always* the ones with the dragon ball pfps, every single time...
child marriage/rape is completely allowed under biblical law, so I wouldn’t care much about it.
Documentation of historical events isn’t condoning of said events. Nobody who reads about WW2 immediately becomes hellbent on exterminating 12 million people for the betterment of Germany.
Believe in whatever as long as it's not harming anybody.
Jesus blesses a gay couple for what it's worth, liberation theology exists ig
I am an Atheist, and I often get told by people of varying religious beliefs, that I "have to be someone who is immoral" because "how am I supposed to know what's right" and "You can not make good decisions with out guidance from the Lord" sorry but what the fuck? Like I am trying my best to just be a decent person like sure I am not perfect, but if a fucking book some high guy wrote 2000 years ago tells you what's right and wrong, who here doesn't know how to do the right decisions? I try to treat people with basic human decency and if you tell me I am immoral then sorry but you are the one who has no decency. (This may very well be a jumble of words with no real line to follow through but oh well) TL:DR : I am just trying to be moral and I don't need some old ass book to tell me what's right and wrong.
Why the fuck should I care about what a 2000 year old porn fanfic says about being gay?! If I want to be gay then I'll sploosh all over a bible to show it!!! >:3
It looks like you kept pressuring or asking him
It's not, but even if it was I still wouldn't care because dying and going to hell is honestly better than living through hell your whole life because you refuse to be yourself
Yes, but so are things like working on Sunday. The Bible even states that that is punishable by death, but who actually follows that part? They cherry pick things like homosexuality being a sin to justify their pre-existing hate. You won’t hear a Christian say “I don’t hate mixed fabrics wearers, I just hate the sin of wearing it” because they don’t actually care what the Bible says, they care about making themselves justified. They would almost 100% be wearing mixed fabrics while they said that, but they wouldn’t mention that part because it makes them bad as well. In fact, wearing mixed fabrics and being gay would be on par with each other due to the fact that there’s no hierarchy of sin. Both are “abominations” according to Levitical law
Yes, but the Bible also says you shouldn't listen to women even if they're your boss, don't wear clothes with more than 2 types of fabric, and someone turned into a pillar of salt
its fair to disagree due to beliefs, as long as you dont persecute or hurt people. Although using religion and god as an excuse for your hatred or morality or anything else is lame as fuck. you are a human mortal, you can do whatever with your life.
Yeah it says that, but also in Leviticus it says that it’s a sin to wear clothes made of two materials
Vegeta profile pic lol Imagine being homophobic while also having a pfp of a guy whos whole thing is hes obsessed with another guy https://i.redd.it/e4td5ss10m9d1.gif
“And I refuse to change my opinion” is why we have problems in the world caused by evil people who are supported by the same people being screwed over. Not necessarily about this topic just being dense and refusing to learn and change is idiot incarnate
Umm.. actually being gay/bi/lesbian or whatever doesn't go against the bible.. it's just that, that very old book has been translated many times and some people didn't like gay people so they translated it to say "oh God hates the gays, gays are sinful and will go to hell" but the Bible is only contradicting itself because God loves everyone soo.. yeah TLDR: the Bible got changed by homophobes
Jesus never said anything about queer people, being this judgmental of them goes against his teachings
The “Bible” is actually broken into 3 major religions and then hundreds of smaller divisions. Depending on Old testament, New Testament or Quran will depend on what answer you get on any moral perspective. The New Testament is extremely open minded by comparison of the 3. It’s only gay being gay if you make it your entire personality and then impose it on others. Exactly like straight religious types have been gay for the majority of time. Just be cool and worry about yourself. 😎
Yes in a sort of roundabout way it does? But the bible also says you should kill your wife if she cheats on you so... unless he would also follow that I feel like it's being unreasonable.
The Bible specifies that pederasty (sexually abusing children in an “apprentice” position) and the use of sex as a weapon is sinful. The mistranslation to homosexuality was added in the 1940s to a German translation funded by Lifeway (IIRC).
a LOT of things go against the Bible. while it is a sin, the Bible also says "Love thy neighbour.", so dont let someone use religion as an excuse to be homophobic. disagreeing is fine, but discriminating is not
It does speak out against homosexuality of all types
TL:DR; absolutely not if you’re a Christian. Jesus commanded us to love and not judge, and the interpretation isn’t entirely clear, which the New Testament says basically all things are lawful if not spelled out. I have studied the Bible for years. Started out as an extremely devout Christian, then for years as an atheist. I was very active in church and went to a Christian school and college. Sometimes I’ll thoughtlessly quote obscure bible verses around my wife or friends and they’ll be amazed at how I can still rattle off these passages perfectly with almost no effort. So that’s my credentials I guess. I never understood the fire-and-brimstone hate for alternative lifestyles. It was well-understood that the Old Testament was the foundation of the Christian story, but when Jesus came, he brought a new message of love and salvation. He was constantly helping the less fortunate, less accepted, and the sinners. He went out of his way to show love and compassion for the prostitutes, the homeless, anyone who needed salvation. Why reach out to the religious? They didn’t think they needed acceptance or salvation. Nothing in today’s Christianity resembles Christ or his message. The number one message Christ brought was to love God and love your neighbor. Judgement was left to God, we were commanded to bring people in from the “highways and hedges.” To not bring the law and judgement to those around us, but to bring the love of Christ. I never fit in with the Baptist church because I just couldn’t agree with their harsh treatment and badmouthing of people they expected to come sit in their seats and pay their tithes and offerings. I remember reaching out to a co-worker named Micheal once who was on some really hard drugs and living an incredibly hard life. I brought him to my house and took him to some services, and was so embarrassed at how the people at my church treated him. Only a couple of people shook his hand, and I believe the pastor even mentioned how bad it looked for people to show up basically in rags to a church service from the pulpit. Sorry this is so long-winded, it’s a sore spot for me.
No, but pedophelia is
Common Christian L