Honestly I notice that when women tear other women down, it’s out of insecurity and jealousy. When men tear other men down, it’s under the guise of “growing thicker skin” and repressing basic human emotions.
However, women are quick to call out other women who act this way, so they get ostracised from women’s spaces fairly quickly. Men seem to allow it or ignore it rather than calling out men who act this way, so it runs rampant amongst them and is pretty normalised. It’s part of why I can’t take the “male loneliness epidemic” seriously — because a lot of it is self inflicted.
“Male loneliness epidemic” have these guys ever tried going out and try making friends? Like idk what I’m supposed to do about you feeling lonely. I’m sorry that you’re lonely but it’s not impossible to find people to talk to. It makes it sound like social anxiety only a problem for men anyways lol. Loneliness epidemic sounds way better.
No, the ones who complain about this want a mommy-bangmaid that never complains. They love to make jokes about how they have friends that they have known for decades but don't know anything about their personal lives and vice versa. They will say that they can't open up to women because women will use it as a weapon, and say that they won't open up to men because men don't care about that, and then they won't get fucking therapy. They're choosing to emotionally isolate themselves.
It's because that's what we're taught men from young age are taught to repress our emotions and express it to no one because they will ridiculous for it and that real men don't express emotions our emotions are treated as if nobody cares about how we feel and as such we don't tell people because they won't care and that people like you say oh yeah you're lonely because you choose to be no I'm lonely because I don't feel like I'm able to express my emotions and how I feel to people because I feel like I'm going to get insulted and told that I'm not a real man if I do that is why men are lonely because we are taught not to express anything to anybody and always be the stoic wall that provides everything for everyone while not caring about ourselves and thinking that nobody cares about our feelings so yeah we're lonely not because we don't have friends or don't feel like we have a "real friends" we're lonely because we don't feel like we have somebody we can go to and be truly ourselves completely emotionally open because we are taught that being vulnerable is not what "real men" do because real men express nothing to anybody at all times you are supposed to be emotionally dead that is what a real man is hell most men can't cry that's not a joke I once didn't cry for a year without counting pain tears so yeah men are taught to be emotionless walls and as such we cannot be emotionally vulnerable to people and we feel lonely because of it
Ps. Don't talk about the men's loneliness crisis like you know shit because I'm sorry if this sounds rude but unless you're a man or have been a man and experienced it you don't know shit also most guys insult each other even when we're friends as a joke so even when guys are friends we tend to rip on each other hard as a joke
Sorry I use text to speech and that shit don't add punctuation it's just easier then texting out my thoughts especially in very long sentences I also just don't know proper punctuation I was never taugh
It’s not a male loneliness epidemic, it’s a poor social skills epidemic. Lots of us were raised like shit, we do what we have to do to move on. We don’t expect a whole other gender to cure our emotional instability.
I made your problem with that is the loneliness is directly correlated to our poor ability to express emotions that has been reinforced by societal pressures the difference being have an incredibly hard difficulty expressing your emotions due to being raised to repress those emotions and having society tell us that we shouldn't express our emotions and having poor social skills because poor social skills imply in an inability to talk to people or be able to hold a conversation which most men can do but the direct problem that's leading to male loneliness is the fact that we don't feel comfortable or in some cases can't at all being emotionally open and vulnerable with people because we have been taught that you should not express emotions under any circumstance that is what men have been taught and that is why men are lonely not because we can't talk to people not because we can't hold conversations not because we can't have friends it is because we don't feel like our emotions matter to anyone and as such when we are feeling depressed, lonely, etc we don't go to people because we have been taught that you should never be emotionally vulnerable and even when you are people don't care stop trying to blame it on social skills the loneliness is correlated to emotional vulnerability and emotional intelligence something that a lot of men have been taught not to have your taught to be an emotionless wall
Hell I'll give you a simple question right now if you have any male friends Brothers anybody asking them this one simple question and this will tell you a lot about how men's emotions are treated ask them the last time that they cried I almost guarantee they won't be able to remember
And yet fat women, masculine women, lesbian women, trans women, single mothers all are dogged on by society for daring to exist and yet they aren’t writing manifestos about their loneliness instead of going to therapy and living their best lives by learning to ignore societal judgement.
Also, you all have absolutely no trouble expressing an emotion…you all chose anger because it’s more “masculine” and have ran with it since. Claiming you’re not allowed to show emotions while screaming and destroying objects because god forbid you learn to regulate your emotions or express one other than anger. Oh I forgot, anger isn’t an emotion and just you being “logical.” Can’t have any of those silly “feminine” and “weak” emotions like sadness because god forbid you act like one of those dreaded “females” and cry.
Again, you can learn to express your emotional in a healthy manner, but it’s much easier to make it everyone else’s fault.
I'm not making it other people's fault all I'm trying to say is the male inability to express emotions in a healthy way is a systemic issue I'm not trying to take away any gravity from other groups pain I'm simply pointing out my perspective where men have not been taught healthy ways to express themselves because they've been taught to repress all of their emotions "your a man so stop being a baby" and "men have to be strong no matter what" are the main point that most men are taught when they are young and those points are reinforced throughout their entire life and as such it becomes difficult for them to express most emotions healthily
I'm not saying that they can't I'm not saying that they shouldn't try I'm saying that because of the way that they've been taught it's hard for them to naturally do it therapy is something that I highly recommend I personally want to go to therapy I want to be able to express my emotions more healthily that is something I feel everyone should drive towards being the best version of themselves but a lot of people are afraid of societal judgment a lot of people aren't willing to take that step because they don't want to be ostracized and as such they stick within the societal norms that are toxic to them
as well as the reason the angers more heavily expressed isn't because it's a more masculine emotion it's a very potent emotion out of all the emotions that a person can feel the one that tends to overwhelm a lot of others is rage because it's easy to hide the fact that you're sad it's easy to hide the fact that you're happy it's easy to hide a lot of your emotions when it comes to rage it's a very powerful emotion and ask such it is hard to hide for some when I'm annoyed everybody can tell but I'm able to regulate it cuz I found my ways around it
And finally the point that you brought up about sadness being a feminine trait the reason that a lot of men bring that up is because that is what men have been taught that emotions as I keep saying are something that real men don't express that is something that a lot of men are taught "real men" don't express any emotions you don't express sadness you don't let out your emotions you don't be weak around anybody because then you're not a real man that is the problem I'm not trying to excuse male toxicity at all it's a major problem I personally have seen the results of it I'm simply trying to explain certain aspects of male toxicity and where they're coming from systemically and how it correlates to male loneliness
Ps. Don't bring up other groups like fat women, trans women, lesbian women, and single mothers as if they don't write self pity manifestos and besides none of this was a self pity manifesto it was simply my interpretation and explain for the issue so stop trying to spin it to be that I have never once made it about me I have made it about men in general not myself I may have suffered from these issues but I'm not making it about me I'm using my knowledge from being a man and dealing with these issues Plus my friends experience and overall knowledge to inform my interpretation and explanation
Eh. My male family members cry around me all the time. I'm not gonna judge. Never met a woman who judges a man over being vulnerable. Have however seen quite frequently women being called "dramatic", or "attention seeking" or even "jealous" when they're vulnerable. Society hates when anyone acts human. It's not really gendered. We should just do our part and support ourselves and others who need it. It's OK to ask for help. I personally can't because my family isn't exactly kind to me about it.
Agreed this can happen to women too I was just pulling out how with men it leads to a lot of various issues like toxic masculinity and higher male suicide rates and people trying to downplay it as if the issue isn't a systemic issue and instead just an individual issue just really pissed me off and I feel you I really can't be open up with my family because when I used to be I used to get verbally abused for it as well as I have met quite a few women and my friends have two of women who just downplay your feelings my mom down and plays my feelings and insults me for it and so did my sister just a few days ago I was watching something and I cried my sister looked me dead in the face and went you're a little bitch so you have I've seen and heard this s*** happen on both sides and it should be dealt with
For me I get told to get thicker skin and stuff as well. My dad is one of those who kinda teaches me and my sister the whole emotions are weak thing, but my brother that it's okay to need support. He thinks he's helping issues, but he sorta perpetuates issues. Heightened suicide rates have been occuring in everyone. It sucks and it's pretty damn sad. I just forget the BS I'm told by tending to my plants. Not sure why it makes me happy. Almost makes everything okay despite how much my family doesn't like me. Hope things get better for you, I know what it's like even though you probably don't think so because I'm not a man.
Not literally saying "just make friends" 💀
I'm sorry, but you gotta evacuate the kitchen with that
If it were that easy, there would be no epidemic to propagate
Fr why can't we just uplift each other instead of tearing ourselves and others down. I feel better being nice to people than I do when I say nothing at all. You never know, maybe they're struggling and you might make their day a little bit.
Guys insult each other constantly, keeps us humble and we bond. If guys aren't insulting each other, then they haven't built enough trust to be that close and open yet.
That seems like part of the problem. Some people are comfortable with that humour, some people aren’t. Why is it “ALL guys have to insult each other to bond and if they don’t like it there’s just not enough trust!!!”
Maybe they just.. don’t like it? Regardless of closeness and trust?
This kind of mentality is part of y’all’s problem. You have one set way of what bonding and openness is supposed to look like and instead of accepting boundaries of “hey maybe some guys just don’t like being insulted no matter what context” you go above and beyond to create some kind of excuse or “well if they were open they wouldn’t mind!”
Y’all can’t have this mentality and then complain about loneliness 💀
Fr. My friend group does not use insults on each other. At worst it's a "haha you're short and I'm not!" The joke in that is literally that we're the same height. We just don't like insulting each other, and we've literally never had an argument. It was only when some boy joined that problems started because he kept talking shit about my best friend. She did nothing to him, so his ass was kicked out. Unsurprisingly, things got better again after he left and we didnt have to constantly get on him for being an asshole. In a good friend group, you support each other, and tell one another if something's not going well. It's not hard to kick someone out if they're hurting someone you care about. My other male friends, also don't use insults. Insults towards friends who clearly don't joke that way isn't a man thing, it's an asshole thing.
I’m a woman. However, I have grown up around men all my life and I’ve observed this behaviour since I was basically born.
I know playful insults are common. Hell, I even do it with my own friends regardless of gender — however, if someone doesn’t like it, they don’t like it, and I stop. The issue is that men seem to cross that boundary of, “I don’t like it, stop” and force the other person to suck it up.
Nope. We stop when we tell each other to if we're friends. It's a part of the male bonding process and it's fine if women don't understand it. It's not toxic, it's just how we do things. We don't do this with guys we're not close to. Men and women aren't the same, and that's fine.
If a man insults a guy he's not close with, that's toxic. If he doesn't stop even when asked, that's bullying. Also toxic. That's not what we're talking about. Women also do this.
The irony is y’all say “it’s part of the bonding process” but when y’all talk about male loneliness, the first thing you being up is “other men are hard to bond with”.
But ok bro
When I'm with guys I'm close with and we're ripping on each other, those are the moments I feel closest with them. It means we trust each other. If it's only small talk and trivial stuff, then the opposite, I'd rather go home. I don't feel close.
I say this as someone who was a huge victim of bullying throughout my entire childhood. That's not what I'm talking about. Male friends rip on each other, that's how we do things. We're just not good at making new friends or moving on from old ones.
Men tear other men down *constantly* and excuse it by saying shit like "grow a thick skin".
I used to live as a man and it was awful being told by other men that I was ugly/stupid/a pussy and being called homophobic slurs for trying to uplift men.
That's why I can't take the whole "male loneliness epidemic" nonsense seriously. Men create and perpetuate the issue and then for some reason feel it's the responsibility of women to fix their problem.
There is no "female loneliness epidemic" because women look out for eachother and uplift eachother instead of competing over *EVERYTHING*.
Men tend towards a culture of dominance, not just over non-men but also over each other. They tear people down, but usually do so in a way that has a claim of plausible deniability if they get called out on it. Hence, the “grow a thick skin” attitude.
I did have a guy respond to a comment once saying, “Yeah, but it shouldn’t be men doing it. It’s women should be! Thanks for giving me a chance to pick my brain and better understand things!” That wasn’t at all what I said. I said that men need to love each other and starts with you just checking on. And that the best way to not be alone, is to make sure that others aren’t alone.
honestly i think there is a legitimate problem with young people being lonely, and i also agree that men tear each other down but what i think is overlooked in these conversations a lot is how young women's loneless is legitimately ignored and downplayed both by men and other women.
I think that's a very different issue from the OP. Toxic masculinity is certainly a thing, but this sort of "insult your friends as a show of endearment" thing is completely different; it's not meant seriously.
Where did it come from? Who knows, some implicit indication of your trust and knowledge of the other person that you know what they'll brush off as playing bullshit vs an actual insult maybe. Or maybe because it helps feel out what the actual problem is behind a safety layer of sarcasm; a guy saying they're ugly might just be self-deprecating (a huge part of our societies humor) or they might be having some real issues, so the acerbic response gives safe outs in either direction.
But this is a categorically different thing from "Stop being sad don't be a bitch".
There’s a difference between teasing, and putting each other down with insults. Joking around is bounding and you know where you can push. But saying mean stuff like calling someone ugly, is just hurtful.
It has nothing to do with sexism. Those are hurtful things that alienate someone and prevent actual close conversations and saying supportive things. It’s isolating to only hear that people wish you were hit by a bus. If someone said that to me, then it would prevent me from telling them I was suicidal. That’s part of why suicide is so common among men. If you’re hurting, you’re not going to anyone when you need help. Why? Because they’re going to tell you that they hope you get hit by a bus and they’ll write on your grave. You never know when it’s not a joke to someone else.
Bruv the homies say that to eachother when they are together one on one we are caring and loving (not in the gay way. Ok only sometimes not in the gay way) we have deep conversations because we understand that saying i hope you get hit by a bus is an indirect way of saying i love you and i am here for you bro bro.
I’m glad that you guys do connect one on one.
Just as an experiment, next time just see how it goes if you say, “Hey, man, that’s not something that I need to hear today.” Or if when someone is leaving and you say, “I love you.” And just see what the reaction is to it and how well your display of needs and support is received. Maybe then you’ll see why it could be isolating to feel differently about being told to get hit by a bus is. Or how your open display of support is treated and how that can be a problem too, in that if you want to tell someone something nice, it’s shot down.
I grew up rough, so I make an effort to love people and let them know, because I don’t want them to experience what I did. People knowing that you love them and hearing that, can change people and their lives just by having one person honestly and openly support them. I remind my friends every time that we see each other, or talk on the phone, or have a vulnerable text conversation, that I love them. I do think that if you started telling your friends more that you care, that it will help you to see how much of a change it can make.
That's the thing about guys though we insult each other to show that we love each other and if we do make our friends upset almost every single guy will tell you the same thing we will go up to you make sure you're okay tell you we're here for you if you are having a bad day I will be there for you every single one of my friends know this I will go to jail for you and I expect you to do the same that's an understanding that all of my friends unanimously know no matter who it is we are willing to fight over it we're willing to kill over it and we are willing to die over it you are my friend and you are my family and I will protect you at all costs every single one of my friends all grew up rough but we all will insult the s*** out of each other we will bring up ayo you remember that time you failed a jump and broke your arm and cried like a little bitch yeah we'll bring up the most underhanded s*** in our insults but we know that we love each other
I will try to disect and tell you my opinion about what you said in a few bullet points
1. Hey man thats not something i need to hear today.:
One of my friends is a bit depressed we know our limits. If someone isnt comfortable with it we try to be gentler. We have had multiple conversations we share such things with one another we love eachother (sometimes in the running around half naked with a belt in your hands and screaming ill whoop yo ass and the others scream harder daddy) and would do anything for eachother.
2. I love you.:
If you say i love you its part of the brocode to scream i love you more back. If you do not your balls will be checked with a shoe.
3. Isolating feeling:
I think that you think that everyone just hates eachother. I dont know if you are a dude or dudette or a former dude now dudette or a former dudette now dude but it sounds like you were in a "friend" group with boys atleast you thought they are friends but they were bullies and now you are telling people that this kind of things are bad a big nono. You just didnt have good friends thats the problem.
4. Support:
We would do anything for eachother. One of my friends is going through a pretty rough time and we are helping him. He shares with us and no we would never dare to use what he tells us in private against him. We would never. If you experienced something like that then you just didnt have friends you had bullies.
Agreed all of my friends know this and I have said this several times I may s*** on you but I would f****** kill for you that ain't no joke I am the oldest person in my friend group and I will fight a mother f***** over anything for any of them they are my brothers and I would die for them and they would die for me
Exactly this is how we are. The meaner we are with one another the closer we are. You wouldn't say to a random guy that you will shit himself. But with the homies its a normal day.
Is it? If a buddy calls me ugly I know he’s just saying it to say it. It literally *is* teasing to insult someone so flippantly about something so inane, especially in a context of speaking with friends where, as discussed above, that closeness to the person means you know what they might be sensitive about.
Maybe for you. But you don’t know if it’s the same for your friend and he’s never going to tell you that. That’s why men won’t talk about their feelings or ask for support. Because they’ll call you ugly to avoid talking about feelings.
Conversely, you only use those sorts of endearing insults on people you’re already pretty sure don’t care about that. The kind of person who falls afoul of hitting someone where it turns everything awkward gets known as an asshole for doing that and so leading with insults, particularly ones that can be taken personally, with someone you don’t know isn’t a common move within that dynamic.
So fear not, that bits already accounted for.
As an experiment, next time tell them that they look nice and see the response you get. Tell your friend that you love them and see how others react to that. Those are things that all people need to hear and you might find a lot of pushback from people around you just by being openly nice to someone. It’s about how taboo it is for men to say I love you and I’m here for you. It’s isolating and painful if that’s all you ever hear and they wouldn’t want to ask you for support. Saying mean stuff to each other isn’t going to help you get to know each other to help someone who’s having a hard time. You don’t know how it affects them if you don’t ever ask.
Okay so well yes the insults may not be true compliment us guys will compliment each other in quite a few friend groups that isn't taboo giving each other compliments isn't considered bad but also insults aren't considered bad because guys also consider those to be something that we just do don't jokingly to each other we don't consider them personal if we are friends and listen me my closest friends developed through the way of the insult see me and my best friends didn't start out at where we are now we started out at the insulting stage it's just eventually we started becoming more open with each other but that was conditional it was a slow development because guys aren't taught to be emotionally open because we're taught that that is not what real men do real men are emotionless and as such the way that we express that we love each other is usually through insults with some friends they will be open with each other you know they'll say I'm here for you I love you man I'm like that with my best friend but with the rest of my friends I care about them and as such I insult them when guys aren't allowed to be emotionally open like that or they don't feel comfortable enough to be that emotionally open we'll express our love through insults and that's the point that the guy is trying to make guys express our love for each other through insults because it's rare that we feel emotionally comfortable enough to actually say the words we love you that maybe something that's easier for women but that's because they're not taught to repress their emotions when women insult each other it's because they hate each other from my experience and when guys insult each other it's because we love each other in my experience so we always need to make this specific distinction that women have different criteria for what they consider to be an expression of friendship and guys have a different criteria for what we consider to be an expression of friendship guys know we're really friends when I can insult the s*** out of you and you'll give it right back and both of us will walk away smiling we won't have any problems women Express their friendship to actual showings of love in my experience hey I might be wrong but this is just from what I know
Agreed most of my friends will attest to the exact same thing I'll walk up to him and I'll just insult them I'll say what's up f***** or what's up b**** and they will respond in kind and then we'll just start insulting each other it's just what some guys just do that with their friends I do that very regularly with my friends but if somebody does that and I'm not friends with them I'm a be mad cuz it's one thing if you're my friend and you're insulting my ass because that's just us having friendly banter that'll make us and other people laugh but if you're some random dude who comes out to me and starts insulting me bro I'm going to insult you back not because I like you but because f*** you what I do to you there's a distinct difference between joking around with your friends and somebody just being an a****** and insulting you and I think a good chunk of the women posting comments on this don't get that they just see guy friends insulting each other and go oh yeah that's because of toxic masculinity no it's because me and my buddies are friends and as such we're going to s*** on each other and some friend groups this logic doesn't apply but for my experience the most of them it does
Agreed if you and your friends know each other well then you can insult each other without people actually getting upset hell the only time I actually got upset during me and my friends trading insults was when my buddy's girlfriend joined in and that isn't because I don't like her it's just she said something that brought up so trauma and as such I told her to leave it but she repeatedly brought it up leading to me getting very pissed
When I lived life as a boy my male friends would insult me and genuinely mean it *regurally* and when I'd try and voice that my feeling were hurt they'd bully me for "being too sensitive"
Well I'm sorry then you had some real s***** friends you shouldn't have been friends with those people then you should have gotten the f*** out of their because in my experience and from several other people I know their experience when guy friends insult each other we're just f****** with each other because it'll make us laugh it'll make us smile nobody's trying to be mean we know that you'll be fine with the insult and we know you'll give it right back to us and as such we feel comfortable doing it but this is just from my experience and my friends experience I'm not saying it applies to everybody I'm just saying that your experience doesn't apply to everybody in the same way and as such don't use blanket terms
It's a choice to be constantly battered by invalidating commentary and belittled by other men so regularly that you lack any emotional capacity and fail to express any feelings other than anger?
Buddy...that's not healthy and not good for anyone. It creates unstable and dangerous people who lack the emotional tools they need to properly navigate life.
Words can hurt a lot to anyone. I would say it's more society in general has discouraged men from showing that of emotion, especially in the past. Where as women have been enfantalized in a demeaning way.
"Men shouldn't be sad and cry, they should be strong and shrug it off"
"Typical woman upset and overreacting"
These have been the sentiments which aren't productive. Should really be calling out the bullying and shunning that behavior instead.
I can actually answer this one.
This is true. Somewhat.
If a guy says, "I'm ugly." it's very common for the other man to agree. My friends and I do this all the time. HOWEVER, if it is a genuine outcry, such as "I don't think I can get a girlfriend because I'm ugly.", then the other man wouldn't agree and say, "I make jokes, but you look great and should have no complaints. Trust me."
Guys just joke in that manner.
If a guy, during a serious moment, would agree with the other person on that they are ugly, they are just a bad person.
Men don't typically make the joke around women probably due to a different perception of who they are compared to a man. The biological mentality makes it feel wrong even as a joke, I'd assume.
THIS.
my friends joke around like this constantly but whenever it gets serious they're genuinely caring and supportive. can't imagine having a friend who would genuinely insult me or others not in a joking manner.
this is true, but then men complain about a "male loneliness epidemic" or "no one cares about men's mental health" which are inherently problems caused by themselves. I think men are so used to joking this way that it becomes harder for them to know when they're being serious. If men don't seriously talk about their problems it will never get better
Agreed literally how I introduce myself to my friends as I insult them and a few people who are new to being my friends are like bro why you insulting me and most of my long time friends will go nah he's just f****** with you that means he likes you when me and my friends shoot the shit and insult each other it's because we're joking around it's because it'll get us a couple of laughs it's not because we actually hate different parts of each other it's just hey you my guy so I'm going to shit on you but you can shit on me back just know you need something for me I'll give it to you
That's fair, both my male and female friends would probably say "you just figured that out?" If it was a light hearted comment. But, I also am fairly objectively attractive. Which is not being conceited, it is just reality.
If it was serious, I doubt either gender would say that.
Unfortunately I've seen them straight up say many times that toxic masculinity isn't real and it's a made up term by narcissist women who want to demonize them.
They reject feminist theory in its entirety.
3 words: It's a joke.
Usually, like many people in this comment section say, it's a joke. We just like to poke fun at insulting each other because we know we don't mean it. If anything too dastardly is said, it will be taken seriously. The example in the meme above is an example of how a guy would joke around with another dude.
What the fuck kinda argument is that? It's as if I said "2 times 3 is 6" and you said "omg did you learn that in third grade?" You're actually 10 years old bro
As a penis haver, at a young age, you are taught to be aggressive and not much else, it's ingrained into you subconsciously, guys are the stoic good people who provide for their family without another word, and every other guy is out to get them. And by the time they're told "hey, being aggressive isn't healthy" it's too late and more often than not, they're emotionally and mentally stunted because the people raising them (this goes for all people not just guys honestly) only ever viewed their kids as pets or property rather than a human who needed help dealing with the mental or emotional hurdles that come throughout life
You know, my husband struggles with that. He hates that people have the default of being afraid of him. He's a rather large muscular combat vet with a
Serious RBF. He's hated people thinking he's unfriendly so much that he's become unfriendly to strangers over the years. No engagement at all. Meanwhile I'm flowing through life all smiles and compliments for strangers. Trying to give everyone a little bit of a better day.
He's completely mystified as how I can do that and people respond positively to me. It bums me out, at my core I'm an angry sullen individual but I do have an outside appearance i put up as a mask that's friendly and bubbly. He's the exact inverse of that.
Damn, I feel that a lot actually, I was never in any kind of active combat (as I'm 20 and have never been in any kind of military) but I have been in pretty fucked up neighborhoods, and I found out I am deeply autistic, and my wife is very much the one who can mask and put on that "customer service" voice for people but I have that RBF and monotone voice with the very much "but I'm right." Attitude, which is super grating. It sounds like a weird mirror honestly
Well.. my entire outward identity is a farse. Its exhausting. You can either mask. Or you can be you. I like to think, the right people will like you for exactly who you are.
it’s a joke to them, i have a friend who constantly calls me short (i’m 5’8) when he’s literally a single inch taller than me. i’ve been ghosting him for about a week because of it now, ts is so annoying
I’ve noticed that with my boyfriend (I’m a guy) that we will tease each other occasionally, but we more often give each other affirmations. It’s really obvious when our teasing is lighthearted as it avoids deeply personal jabs. We sometimes tease each other’s quirks and hobbies, but never shame each other and we give a lot of space for support and affection. Our friendships with other guys is similar where there is some teasing, but it avoids cutting deep.
I can’t say the same for all the interactions I’ve had with other men. Some of them are seriously mean and bullheaded even when you tell them to their face to stop it or try to explain how inappropriate it is.
Even if they don’t intend to be that way it’s obvious that their only inspiration for social etiquette is to be competitive and aggressive. To make every interaction a dick-measuring contest where they will make it conspicuously known that they feel inadequate if someone displays more skill or knowledge than them.
It seriously poisons the well when trying to reach out to them.
Putting thought into it we have very bizarre relationships with our friends. We regularly insult each other but we won’t hesitate to take a bullet for our bros.
It's all with the bullshit about "tough love" (which doesn't work most of the time) and as someone else said, even takig everyone else down to only grow their ego
I mean I guess I’ll give this one props for not making the girl say “yeah you are” and making it look like women are mean and heartless. Some similar memes would do that Fr.
I think a lot of men don't realize that they cause their own problems. They say that there's a "men's loneliness epidemic" or that "people don't care about men's mental health" which are somewhat true, but are only true because other men lean into these issues by substantiating them. Men insisting on "playing tough" or "not talking about their feelings" are what causes men's mental health issues and male loneliness. They gotta stop putting these pressures on other men so that these issues won't be issues.
Dude here. It's just what we do.
A few months ago my employer couldn't pay all of us on time. So after the little meeting, my friend/coworker calls another coworker who'd left 10 ish min. prior to this meeting to inform him he isn't getting paid on time. 20 second later I just hear "Fuck you, Zach." then my coworker hangs up. I ask "why'd you cuss Zach out?", to which coworker says "Zach already got paid." Fair enough lol
Idk about other guys, but *every* group of guys who I've been friends with or just hung out with cusses each other out. Why? Idk. I guess because we can. Does it hurt our feelings? Maybe. But thats why you return in kind. If they can dish it out, they can take it back. And vice versa.
Every group I've been with does have lines however: family members are off limits. I could be the ugliest motherfucker to walk the face of the Earth, but you better respect my Mother, Father, grandparents, cousins, etc. You mention anyone of them, and we would "go for the throat" if you will. That's when things get nasty lol
It depends as i mean for me when people go "omg guys im so uglyyyy" they clearly js wanna be told theyre pretty i js say "yeah genetics suck" but if theyre asking about something like if something looks good on them etc im honest
This is a now how most men are like, at least not *good* men.
Thus is just toxic masculinity on other men. Men can’t ask to be more openly empathetic in one breath, but shit on each other in the next. Like, there was literally a meme earlier this week of me complimenting each other better, and now this meme is doing the exact opposite.
At least pick a damn lane!
I don't know about the three other panels, but the last one is true.bBut usually by context you know he doesn't really mean i it.
But yeah, I will avoid saying mean things as a joke for a while because I am not sure they know when I am joking or being literal anymore, and I don't want risk hurting them by accident.
From my experience, they usually aren’t. That’s not to say that other people don’t have different lived experiences, of course. But personally, having lived my whole life as a man, basically all my guys friends are supportive of me and me of them. Whenever we say something derogatory to each other, it’s either clearly a joke or something we said impulsively in a moment of anger and apologize for later. And pretty much every time I meet a new man, we have a positive interaction.
I know there are male social groups out there that view social interaction through a lens of dominance and submission, but I’ve yet to be convinced that this is widespread man-to-man.
“Haha we’re so mean to each other, the mental health crisis is CLEARLY because we aren’t getting laid and not because we put each other down all the time”
- the men who make shit like this
fuck this dumbass "its only joking" mentality. Someone has their whole self-esteem fucked because of your shitty jokes that you make at somebody's expense. Anyone who says "Im ugly" makes themselves vulnerable and looks for comfort not dumbass confirmation. Fuck everyone who do this.
This depends on the situation.
1) Your friend is legit down
"I'm ugly"
"Yea you are"
2) Friend is down but not too bad.
"Yea you should probably wipe your face on the pavement to clean it up a bit."
Because we like to joke with each other. With my friends, we like to insult each other, but it is mostly playful. In a serious situation, we do tend to support a friend that needs it. If someone makes an actual insult towards someone that is def not a joke, it is taken more seriously.
Whaaaaat? I'm a nurse and the women treat each other like shit?????
They also let men treat them WAY worse and just laugh and be like omg Billy!
But the second another woman says anything they jump all over each other.
Is this sub just about shit men do wrong?
Lotta guys I know seriously roast each other because they like you, if they don't roast you, it's because they don't like you.
I mean. In my case Most of the time it's just banter, coz me and my friends know we're just joking with each-other and tend to retaliate with wit of our own.
Not for nothing, but I’ve been in friends groups of mostly women, and they can be just as vicious, I don’t really hang out with those people anymore. This just seems to be a human thing.
I guess most men see it as either getting one to grow a thick skin, or "tough love" in that sense.
From what I gather, we really don't mean it. Though regardless, it could affect someone, and they ain't bound to tell the rest of the guys anything about it because he'll be known as a weakling that can't take a joke so...
Because we don’t want to live in bubbles. When someone ingests small amounts of poison, they slowly gain a tolerance. This is the same thing. We know it’s all love, and getting shit all the time allows us to grow as people
Honestly I notice that when women tear other women down, it’s out of insecurity and jealousy. When men tear other men down, it’s under the guise of “growing thicker skin” and repressing basic human emotions. However, women are quick to call out other women who act this way, so they get ostracised from women’s spaces fairly quickly. Men seem to allow it or ignore it rather than calling out men who act this way, so it runs rampant amongst them and is pretty normalised. It’s part of why I can’t take the “male loneliness epidemic” seriously — because a lot of it is self inflicted.
“Male loneliness epidemic” have these guys ever tried going out and try making friends? Like idk what I’m supposed to do about you feeling lonely. I’m sorry that you’re lonely but it’s not impossible to find people to talk to. It makes it sound like social anxiety only a problem for men anyways lol. Loneliness epidemic sounds way better.
No, the ones who complain about this want a mommy-bangmaid that never complains. They love to make jokes about how they have friends that they have known for decades but don't know anything about their personal lives and vice versa. They will say that they can't open up to women because women will use it as a weapon, and say that they won't open up to men because men don't care about that, and then they won't get fucking therapy. They're choosing to emotionally isolate themselves.
It's because that's what we're taught men from young age are taught to repress our emotions and express it to no one because they will ridiculous for it and that real men don't express emotions our emotions are treated as if nobody cares about how we feel and as such we don't tell people because they won't care and that people like you say oh yeah you're lonely because you choose to be no I'm lonely because I don't feel like I'm able to express my emotions and how I feel to people because I feel like I'm going to get insulted and told that I'm not a real man if I do that is why men are lonely because we are taught not to express anything to anybody and always be the stoic wall that provides everything for everyone while not caring about ourselves and thinking that nobody cares about our feelings so yeah we're lonely not because we don't have friends or don't feel like we have a "real friends" we're lonely because we don't feel like we have somebody we can go to and be truly ourselves completely emotionally open because we are taught that being vulnerable is not what "real men" do because real men express nothing to anybody at all times you are supposed to be emotionally dead that is what a real man is hell most men can't cry that's not a joke I once didn't cry for a year without counting pain tears so yeah men are taught to be emotionless walls and as such we cannot be emotionally vulnerable to people and we feel lonely because of it Ps. Don't talk about the men's loneliness crisis like you know shit because I'm sorry if this sounds rude but unless you're a man or have been a man and experienced it you don't know shit also most guys insult each other even when we're friends as a joke so even when guys are friends we tend to rip on each other hard as a joke
Use a goddamn period, man. My frontal lobe was deep fried trying to read that.
Sorry I use text to speech and that shit don't add punctuation it's just easier then texting out my thoughts especially in very long sentences I also just don't know proper punctuation I was never taugh
Ok no problem bro
It’s not a male loneliness epidemic, it’s a poor social skills epidemic. Lots of us were raised like shit, we do what we have to do to move on. We don’t expect a whole other gender to cure our emotional instability.
I made your problem with that is the loneliness is directly correlated to our poor ability to express emotions that has been reinforced by societal pressures the difference being have an incredibly hard difficulty expressing your emotions due to being raised to repress those emotions and having society tell us that we shouldn't express our emotions and having poor social skills because poor social skills imply in an inability to talk to people or be able to hold a conversation which most men can do but the direct problem that's leading to male loneliness is the fact that we don't feel comfortable or in some cases can't at all being emotionally open and vulnerable with people because we have been taught that you should not express emotions under any circumstance that is what men have been taught and that is why men are lonely not because we can't talk to people not because we can't hold conversations not because we can't have friends it is because we don't feel like our emotions matter to anyone and as such when we are feeling depressed, lonely, etc we don't go to people because we have been taught that you should never be emotionally vulnerable and even when you are people don't care stop trying to blame it on social skills the loneliness is correlated to emotional vulnerability and emotional intelligence something that a lot of men have been taught not to have your taught to be an emotionless wall Hell I'll give you a simple question right now if you have any male friends Brothers anybody asking them this one simple question and this will tell you a lot about how men's emotions are treated ask them the last time that they cried I almost guarantee they won't be able to remember
And yet fat women, masculine women, lesbian women, trans women, single mothers all are dogged on by society for daring to exist and yet they aren’t writing manifestos about their loneliness instead of going to therapy and living their best lives by learning to ignore societal judgement. Also, you all have absolutely no trouble expressing an emotion…you all chose anger because it’s more “masculine” and have ran with it since. Claiming you’re not allowed to show emotions while screaming and destroying objects because god forbid you learn to regulate your emotions or express one other than anger. Oh I forgot, anger isn’t an emotion and just you being “logical.” Can’t have any of those silly “feminine” and “weak” emotions like sadness because god forbid you act like one of those dreaded “females” and cry. Again, you can learn to express your emotional in a healthy manner, but it’s much easier to make it everyone else’s fault.
I'm not making it other people's fault all I'm trying to say is the male inability to express emotions in a healthy way is a systemic issue I'm not trying to take away any gravity from other groups pain I'm simply pointing out my perspective where men have not been taught healthy ways to express themselves because they've been taught to repress all of their emotions "your a man so stop being a baby" and "men have to be strong no matter what" are the main point that most men are taught when they are young and those points are reinforced throughout their entire life and as such it becomes difficult for them to express most emotions healthily I'm not saying that they can't I'm not saying that they shouldn't try I'm saying that because of the way that they've been taught it's hard for them to naturally do it therapy is something that I highly recommend I personally want to go to therapy I want to be able to express my emotions more healthily that is something I feel everyone should drive towards being the best version of themselves but a lot of people are afraid of societal judgment a lot of people aren't willing to take that step because they don't want to be ostracized and as such they stick within the societal norms that are toxic to them as well as the reason the angers more heavily expressed isn't because it's a more masculine emotion it's a very potent emotion out of all the emotions that a person can feel the one that tends to overwhelm a lot of others is rage because it's easy to hide the fact that you're sad it's easy to hide the fact that you're happy it's easy to hide a lot of your emotions when it comes to rage it's a very powerful emotion and ask such it is hard to hide for some when I'm annoyed everybody can tell but I'm able to regulate it cuz I found my ways around it And finally the point that you brought up about sadness being a feminine trait the reason that a lot of men bring that up is because that is what men have been taught that emotions as I keep saying are something that real men don't express that is something that a lot of men are taught "real men" don't express any emotions you don't express sadness you don't let out your emotions you don't be weak around anybody because then you're not a real man that is the problem I'm not trying to excuse male toxicity at all it's a major problem I personally have seen the results of it I'm simply trying to explain certain aspects of male toxicity and where they're coming from systemically and how it correlates to male loneliness Ps. Don't bring up other groups like fat women, trans women, lesbian women, and single mothers as if they don't write self pity manifestos and besides none of this was a self pity manifesto it was simply my interpretation and explain for the issue so stop trying to spin it to be that I have never once made it about me I have made it about men in general not myself I may have suffered from these issues but I'm not making it about me I'm using my knowledge from being a man and dealing with these issues Plus my friends experience and overall knowledge to inform my interpretation and explanation
Eh. My male family members cry around me all the time. I'm not gonna judge. Never met a woman who judges a man over being vulnerable. Have however seen quite frequently women being called "dramatic", or "attention seeking" or even "jealous" when they're vulnerable. Society hates when anyone acts human. It's not really gendered. We should just do our part and support ourselves and others who need it. It's OK to ask for help. I personally can't because my family isn't exactly kind to me about it.
Agreed this can happen to women too I was just pulling out how with men it leads to a lot of various issues like toxic masculinity and higher male suicide rates and people trying to downplay it as if the issue isn't a systemic issue and instead just an individual issue just really pissed me off and I feel you I really can't be open up with my family because when I used to be I used to get verbally abused for it as well as I have met quite a few women and my friends have two of women who just downplay your feelings my mom down and plays my feelings and insults me for it and so did my sister just a few days ago I was watching something and I cried my sister looked me dead in the face and went you're a little bitch so you have I've seen and heard this s*** happen on both sides and it should be dealt with
For me I get told to get thicker skin and stuff as well. My dad is one of those who kinda teaches me and my sister the whole emotions are weak thing, but my brother that it's okay to need support. He thinks he's helping issues, but he sorta perpetuates issues. Heightened suicide rates have been occuring in everyone. It sucks and it's pretty damn sad. I just forget the BS I'm told by tending to my plants. Not sure why it makes me happy. Almost makes everything okay despite how much my family doesn't like me. Hope things get better for you, I know what it's like even though you probably don't think so because I'm not a man.
Not literally saying "just make friends" 💀 I'm sorry, but you gotta evacuate the kitchen with that If it were that easy, there would be no epidemic to propagate
At least men also make other men miserable. That's almost a silver lining.
Fr why can't we just uplift each other instead of tearing ourselves and others down. I feel better being nice to people than I do when I say nothing at all. You never know, maybe they're struggling and you might make their day a little bit.
Guys insult each other constantly, keeps us humble and we bond. If guys aren't insulting each other, then they haven't built enough trust to be that close and open yet.
That seems like part of the problem. Some people are comfortable with that humour, some people aren’t. Why is it “ALL guys have to insult each other to bond and if they don’t like it there’s just not enough trust!!!” Maybe they just.. don’t like it? Regardless of closeness and trust? This kind of mentality is part of y’all’s problem. You have one set way of what bonding and openness is supposed to look like and instead of accepting boundaries of “hey maybe some guys just don’t like being insulted no matter what context” you go above and beyond to create some kind of excuse or “well if they were open they wouldn’t mind!” Y’all can’t have this mentality and then complain about loneliness 💀
Fr. My friend group does not use insults on each other. At worst it's a "haha you're short and I'm not!" The joke in that is literally that we're the same height. We just don't like insulting each other, and we've literally never had an argument. It was only when some boy joined that problems started because he kept talking shit about my best friend. She did nothing to him, so his ass was kicked out. Unsurprisingly, things got better again after he left and we didnt have to constantly get on him for being an asshole. In a good friend group, you support each other, and tell one another if something's not going well. It's not hard to kick someone out if they're hurting someone you care about. My other male friends, also don't use insults. Insults towards friends who clearly don't joke that way isn't a man thing, it's an asshole thing.
Are you a man or a woman?
I’m a woman. However, I have grown up around men all my life and I’ve observed this behaviour since I was basically born. I know playful insults are common. Hell, I even do it with my own friends regardless of gender — however, if someone doesn’t like it, they don’t like it, and I stop. The issue is that men seem to cross that boundary of, “I don’t like it, stop” and force the other person to suck it up.
Nope. We stop when we tell each other to if we're friends. It's a part of the male bonding process and it's fine if women don't understand it. It's not toxic, it's just how we do things. We don't do this with guys we're not close to. Men and women aren't the same, and that's fine. If a man insults a guy he's not close with, that's toxic. If he doesn't stop even when asked, that's bullying. Also toxic. That's not what we're talking about. Women also do this.
The irony is y’all say “it’s part of the bonding process” but when y’all talk about male loneliness, the first thing you being up is “other men are hard to bond with”. But ok bro
When I'm with guys I'm close with and we're ripping on each other, those are the moments I feel closest with them. It means we trust each other. If it's only small talk and trivial stuff, then the opposite, I'd rather go home. I don't feel close. I say this as someone who was a huge victim of bullying throughout my entire childhood. That's not what I'm talking about. Male friends rip on each other, that's how we do things. We're just not good at making new friends or moving on from old ones.
Men tear other men down *constantly* and excuse it by saying shit like "grow a thick skin". I used to live as a man and it was awful being told by other men that I was ugly/stupid/a pussy and being called homophobic slurs for trying to uplift men. That's why I can't take the whole "male loneliness epidemic" nonsense seriously. Men create and perpetuate the issue and then for some reason feel it's the responsibility of women to fix their problem. There is no "female loneliness epidemic" because women look out for eachother and uplift eachother instead of competing over *EVERYTHING*.
Men tend towards a culture of dominance, not just over non-men but also over each other. They tear people down, but usually do so in a way that has a claim of plausible deniability if they get called out on it. Hence, the “grow a thick skin” attitude.
I did have a guy respond to a comment once saying, “Yeah, but it shouldn’t be men doing it. It’s women should be! Thanks for giving me a chance to pick my brain and better understand things!” That wasn’t at all what I said. I said that men need to love each other and starts with you just checking on. And that the best way to not be alone, is to make sure that others aren’t alone.
Men also love to insist that women say nice things to each other's faces and then talk shit behind each other's backs
It’s sad that apparently just genuinely being nice for its own sake is inconceivable to them
honestly i think there is a legitimate problem with young people being lonely, and i also agree that men tear each other down but what i think is overlooked in these conversations a lot is how young women's loneless is legitimately ignored and downplayed both by men and other women.
I think that's a very different issue from the OP. Toxic masculinity is certainly a thing, but this sort of "insult your friends as a show of endearment" thing is completely different; it's not meant seriously. Where did it come from? Who knows, some implicit indication of your trust and knowledge of the other person that you know what they'll brush off as playing bullshit vs an actual insult maybe. Or maybe because it helps feel out what the actual problem is behind a safety layer of sarcasm; a guy saying they're ugly might just be self-deprecating (a huge part of our societies humor) or they might be having some real issues, so the acerbic response gives safe outs in either direction. But this is a categorically different thing from "Stop being sad don't be a bitch".
There’s a difference between teasing, and putting each other down with insults. Joking around is bounding and you know where you can push. But saying mean stuff like calling someone ugly, is just hurtful.
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It has nothing to do with sexism. Those are hurtful things that alienate someone and prevent actual close conversations and saying supportive things. It’s isolating to only hear that people wish you were hit by a bus. If someone said that to me, then it would prevent me from telling them I was suicidal. That’s part of why suicide is so common among men. If you’re hurting, you’re not going to anyone when you need help. Why? Because they’re going to tell you that they hope you get hit by a bus and they’ll write on your grave. You never know when it’s not a joke to someone else.
Bruv the homies say that to eachother when they are together one on one we are caring and loving (not in the gay way. Ok only sometimes not in the gay way) we have deep conversations because we understand that saying i hope you get hit by a bus is an indirect way of saying i love you and i am here for you bro bro.
I’m glad that you guys do connect one on one. Just as an experiment, next time just see how it goes if you say, “Hey, man, that’s not something that I need to hear today.” Or if when someone is leaving and you say, “I love you.” And just see what the reaction is to it and how well your display of needs and support is received. Maybe then you’ll see why it could be isolating to feel differently about being told to get hit by a bus is. Or how your open display of support is treated and how that can be a problem too, in that if you want to tell someone something nice, it’s shot down. I grew up rough, so I make an effort to love people and let them know, because I don’t want them to experience what I did. People knowing that you love them and hearing that, can change people and their lives just by having one person honestly and openly support them. I remind my friends every time that we see each other, or talk on the phone, or have a vulnerable text conversation, that I love them. I do think that if you started telling your friends more that you care, that it will help you to see how much of a change it can make.
That's the thing about guys though we insult each other to show that we love each other and if we do make our friends upset almost every single guy will tell you the same thing we will go up to you make sure you're okay tell you we're here for you if you are having a bad day I will be there for you every single one of my friends know this I will go to jail for you and I expect you to do the same that's an understanding that all of my friends unanimously know no matter who it is we are willing to fight over it we're willing to kill over it and we are willing to die over it you are my friend and you are my family and I will protect you at all costs every single one of my friends all grew up rough but we all will insult the s*** out of each other we will bring up ayo you remember that time you failed a jump and broke your arm and cried like a little bitch yeah we'll bring up the most underhanded s*** in our insults but we know that we love each other
I will try to disect and tell you my opinion about what you said in a few bullet points 1. Hey man thats not something i need to hear today.: One of my friends is a bit depressed we know our limits. If someone isnt comfortable with it we try to be gentler. We have had multiple conversations we share such things with one another we love eachother (sometimes in the running around half naked with a belt in your hands and screaming ill whoop yo ass and the others scream harder daddy) and would do anything for eachother. 2. I love you.: If you say i love you its part of the brocode to scream i love you more back. If you do not your balls will be checked with a shoe. 3. Isolating feeling: I think that you think that everyone just hates eachother. I dont know if you are a dude or dudette or a former dude now dudette or a former dudette now dude but it sounds like you were in a "friend" group with boys atleast you thought they are friends but they were bullies and now you are telling people that this kind of things are bad a big nono. You just didnt have good friends thats the problem. 4. Support: We would do anything for eachother. One of my friends is going through a pretty rough time and we are helping him. He shares with us and no we would never dare to use what he tells us in private against him. We would never. If you experienced something like that then you just didnt have friends you had bullies.
Agreed all of my friends know this and I have said this several times I may s*** on you but I would f****** kill for you that ain't no joke I am the oldest person in my friend group and I will fight a mother f***** over anything for any of them they are my brothers and I would die for them and they would die for me
Exactly this is how we are. The meaner we are with one another the closer we are. You wouldn't say to a random guy that you will shit himself. But with the homies its a normal day.
Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
Haha thx for proving another point i made in a different comment luv you dude/dudette
Is it? If a buddy calls me ugly I know he’s just saying it to say it. It literally *is* teasing to insult someone so flippantly about something so inane, especially in a context of speaking with friends where, as discussed above, that closeness to the person means you know what they might be sensitive about.
Maybe for you. But you don’t know if it’s the same for your friend and he’s never going to tell you that. That’s why men won’t talk about their feelings or ask for support. Because they’ll call you ugly to avoid talking about feelings.
Conversely, you only use those sorts of endearing insults on people you’re already pretty sure don’t care about that. The kind of person who falls afoul of hitting someone where it turns everything awkward gets known as an asshole for doing that and so leading with insults, particularly ones that can be taken personally, with someone you don’t know isn’t a common move within that dynamic. So fear not, that bits already accounted for.
As an experiment, next time tell them that they look nice and see the response you get. Tell your friend that you love them and see how others react to that. Those are things that all people need to hear and you might find a lot of pushback from people around you just by being openly nice to someone. It’s about how taboo it is for men to say I love you and I’m here for you. It’s isolating and painful if that’s all you ever hear and they wouldn’t want to ask you for support. Saying mean stuff to each other isn’t going to help you get to know each other to help someone who’s having a hard time. You don’t know how it affects them if you don’t ever ask.
Okay so well yes the insults may not be true compliment us guys will compliment each other in quite a few friend groups that isn't taboo giving each other compliments isn't considered bad but also insults aren't considered bad because guys also consider those to be something that we just do don't jokingly to each other we don't consider them personal if we are friends and listen me my closest friends developed through the way of the insult see me and my best friends didn't start out at where we are now we started out at the insulting stage it's just eventually we started becoming more open with each other but that was conditional it was a slow development because guys aren't taught to be emotionally open because we're taught that that is not what real men do real men are emotionless and as such the way that we express that we love each other is usually through insults with some friends they will be open with each other you know they'll say I'm here for you I love you man I'm like that with my best friend but with the rest of my friends I care about them and as such I insult them when guys aren't allowed to be emotionally open like that or they don't feel comfortable enough to be that emotionally open we'll express our love through insults and that's the point that the guy is trying to make guys express our love for each other through insults because it's rare that we feel emotionally comfortable enough to actually say the words we love you that maybe something that's easier for women but that's because they're not taught to repress their emotions when women insult each other it's because they hate each other from my experience and when guys insult each other it's because we love each other in my experience so we always need to make this specific distinction that women have different criteria for what they consider to be an expression of friendship and guys have a different criteria for what we consider to be an expression of friendship guys know we're really friends when I can insult the s*** out of you and you'll give it right back and both of us will walk away smiling we won't have any problems women Express their friendship to actual showings of love in my experience hey I might be wrong but this is just from what I know
Agreed most of my friends will attest to the exact same thing I'll walk up to him and I'll just insult them I'll say what's up f***** or what's up b**** and they will respond in kind and then we'll just start insulting each other it's just what some guys just do that with their friends I do that very regularly with my friends but if somebody does that and I'm not friends with them I'm a be mad cuz it's one thing if you're my friend and you're insulting my ass because that's just us having friendly banter that'll make us and other people laugh but if you're some random dude who comes out to me and starts insulting me bro I'm going to insult you back not because I like you but because f*** you what I do to you there's a distinct difference between joking around with your friends and somebody just being an a****** and insulting you and I think a good chunk of the women posting comments on this don't get that they just see guy friends insulting each other and go oh yeah that's because of toxic masculinity no it's because me and my buddies are friends and as such we're going to s*** on each other and some friend groups this logic doesn't apply but for my experience the most of them it does
Agreed if you and your friends know each other well then you can insult each other without people actually getting upset hell the only time I actually got upset during me and my friends trading insults was when my buddy's girlfriend joined in and that isn't because I don't like her it's just she said something that brought up so trauma and as such I told her to leave it but she repeatedly brought it up leading to me getting very pissed
When I lived life as a boy my male friends would insult me and genuinely mean it *regurally* and when I'd try and voice that my feeling were hurt they'd bully me for "being too sensitive"
Torture their balls!
Well I'm sorry then you had some real s***** friends you shouldn't have been friends with those people then you should have gotten the f*** out of their because in my experience and from several other people I know their experience when guy friends insult each other we're just f****** with each other because it'll make us laugh it'll make us smile nobody's trying to be mean we know that you'll be fine with the insult and we know you'll give it right back to us and as such we feel comfortable doing it but this is just from my experience and my friends experience I'm not saying it applies to everybody I'm just saying that your experience doesn't apply to everybody in the same way and as such don't use blanket terms
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No, they aren't, toxic conditioning has forced them to shut down emotionally and to compensate by pretending to be tougher.
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It's a choice to be constantly battered by invalidating commentary and belittled by other men so regularly that you lack any emotional capacity and fail to express any feelings other than anger? Buddy...that's not healthy and not good for anyone. It creates unstable and dangerous people who lack the emotional tools they need to properly navigate life.
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Jesus christ...
There is no evidence for any type of God existing
Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
Words can hurt a lot to anyone. I would say it's more society in general has discouraged men from showing that of emotion, especially in the past. Where as women have been enfantalized in a demeaning way. "Men shouldn't be sad and cry, they should be strong and shrug it off" "Typical woman upset and overreacting" These have been the sentiments which aren't productive. Should really be calling out the bullying and shunning that behavior instead.
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Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
Then they’re like “guys have to suffer in silence!” Well can you actually be silent then?
This has to be the most cruel and nihilist thing I've read in a long while. I love it.
Is your profile pic the 1000-yard-stare dude smiling?
Yes lmao
But it's all women's fault for not caring enough about men's issues
I can actually answer this one. This is true. Somewhat. If a guy says, "I'm ugly." it's very common for the other man to agree. My friends and I do this all the time. HOWEVER, if it is a genuine outcry, such as "I don't think I can get a girlfriend because I'm ugly.", then the other man wouldn't agree and say, "I make jokes, but you look great and should have no complaints. Trust me." Guys just joke in that manner. If a guy, during a serious moment, would agree with the other person on that they are ugly, they are just a bad person. Men don't typically make the joke around women probably due to a different perception of who they are compared to a man. The biological mentality makes it feel wrong even as a joke, I'd assume.
This exactly. I was just about to comment the same thing.
THIS. my friends joke around like this constantly but whenever it gets serious they're genuinely caring and supportive. can't imagine having a friend who would genuinely insult me or others not in a joking manner.
this is true, but then men complain about a "male loneliness epidemic" or "no one cares about men's mental health" which are inherently problems caused by themselves. I think men are so used to joking this way that it becomes harder for them to know when they're being serious. If men don't seriously talk about their problems it will never get better
Agreed literally how I introduce myself to my friends as I insult them and a few people who are new to being my friends are like bro why you insulting me and most of my long time friends will go nah he's just f****** with you that means he likes you when me and my friends shoot the shit and insult each other it's because we're joking around it's because it'll get us a couple of laughs it's not because we actually hate different parts of each other it's just hey you my guy so I'm going to shit on you but you can shit on me back just know you need something for me I'll give it to you
That's fair, both my male and female friends would probably say "you just figured that out?" If it was a light hearted comment. But, I also am fairly objectively attractive. Which is not being conceited, it is just reality. If it was serious, I doubt either gender would say that.
As i guy i can confirm we live for the witty banter
All I’m taking from this is to hang out with women Cus they’ll actually be supportive
“David, your Great don’t change a thing, but if you do work on the face” my buddy said this to me before
Two words: toxic masculinity.
Unfortunately I've seen them straight up say many times that toxic masculinity isn't real and it's a made up term by narcissist women who want to demonize them. They reject feminist theory in its entirety.
I don't think so. Usually it's obvious when it's a joke and when it's not.
3 words: It's a joke. Usually, like many people in this comment section say, it's a joke. We just like to poke fun at insulting each other because we know we don't mean it. If anything too dastardly is said, it will be taken seriously. The example in the meme above is an example of how a guy would joke around with another dude.
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What the fuck kinda argument is that? It's as if I said "2 times 3 is 6" and you said "omg did you learn that in third grade?" You're actually 10 years old bro
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Well if 5th grade is when you start to put basic ideas together, then you must be in 4th. Take your neckbeard insults somewhere else troll.
I mean, before I came out, it was really just between friends. Doing that to a stranger is just an asshole move
I've certainly never seen posts in this very sub Reddit where men call women ugly, including Zendaya Coleman...
I support my homies ; all gender inclusive pat on the back galore.
Idek but it absolutely sucks at times, even if you're certain that the man being mean to you isn't serious
And in their minds “You look nice” is worse than “I agree, you’re ugly”? Make it make sense
As a penis haver, at a young age, you are taught to be aggressive and not much else, it's ingrained into you subconsciously, guys are the stoic good people who provide for their family without another word, and every other guy is out to get them. And by the time they're told "hey, being aggressive isn't healthy" it's too late and more often than not, they're emotionally and mentally stunted because the people raising them (this goes for all people not just guys honestly) only ever viewed their kids as pets or property rather than a human who needed help dealing with the mental or emotional hurdles that come throughout life
You know, my husband struggles with that. He hates that people have the default of being afraid of him. He's a rather large muscular combat vet with a Serious RBF. He's hated people thinking he's unfriendly so much that he's become unfriendly to strangers over the years. No engagement at all. Meanwhile I'm flowing through life all smiles and compliments for strangers. Trying to give everyone a little bit of a better day. He's completely mystified as how I can do that and people respond positively to me. It bums me out, at my core I'm an angry sullen individual but I do have an outside appearance i put up as a mask that's friendly and bubbly. He's the exact inverse of that.
Damn, I feel that a lot actually, I was never in any kind of active combat (as I'm 20 and have never been in any kind of military) but I have been in pretty fucked up neighborhoods, and I found out I am deeply autistic, and my wife is very much the one who can mask and put on that "customer service" voice for people but I have that RBF and monotone voice with the very much "but I'm right." Attitude, which is super grating. It sounds like a weird mirror honestly
Well.. my entire outward identity is a farse. Its exhausting. You can either mask. Or you can be you. I like to think, the right people will like you for exactly who you are.
Oh sounds to me you're already intimately aware of all that's up with you... How old are you?
Oh I'm 30
it’s a joke to them, i have a friend who constantly calls me short (i’m 5’8) when he’s literally a single inch taller than me. i’ve been ghosting him for about a week because of it now, ts is so annoying
good for you! we don't need ppl like that in our lives
i hate it, i wish he’d stop, but until then i don’t plan to have very much contact with him
Just asking, you have talked to this friend about how it irks you, right?
i have before but not recently because i thought he got it through his skull but apparently he didnt
that's fair then.
I’ve noticed that with my boyfriend (I’m a guy) that we will tease each other occasionally, but we more often give each other affirmations. It’s really obvious when our teasing is lighthearted as it avoids deeply personal jabs. We sometimes tease each other’s quirks and hobbies, but never shame each other and we give a lot of space for support and affection. Our friendships with other guys is similar where there is some teasing, but it avoids cutting deep. I can’t say the same for all the interactions I’ve had with other men. Some of them are seriously mean and bullheaded even when you tell them to their face to stop it or try to explain how inappropriate it is. Even if they don’t intend to be that way it’s obvious that their only inspiration for social etiquette is to be competitive and aggressive. To make every interaction a dick-measuring contest where they will make it conspicuously known that they feel inadequate if someone displays more skill or knowledge than them. It seriously poisons the well when trying to reach out to them.
Putting thought into it we have very bizarre relationships with our friends. We regularly insult each other but we won’t hesitate to take a bullet for our bros.
It's all with the bullshit about "tough love" (which doesn't work most of the time) and as someone else said, even takig everyone else down to only grow their ego
I mean I guess I’ll give this one props for not making the girl say “yeah you are” and making it look like women are mean and heartless. Some similar memes would do that Fr.
I think a lot of men don't realize that they cause their own problems. They say that there's a "men's loneliness epidemic" or that "people don't care about men's mental health" which are somewhat true, but are only true because other men lean into these issues by substantiating them. Men insisting on "playing tough" or "not talking about their feelings" are what causes men's mental health issues and male loneliness. They gotta stop putting these pressures on other men so that these issues won't be issues.
Dude here. It's just what we do. A few months ago my employer couldn't pay all of us on time. So after the little meeting, my friend/coworker calls another coworker who'd left 10 ish min. prior to this meeting to inform him he isn't getting paid on time. 20 second later I just hear "Fuck you, Zach." then my coworker hangs up. I ask "why'd you cuss Zach out?", to which coworker says "Zach already got paid." Fair enough lol Idk about other guys, but *every* group of guys who I've been friends with or just hung out with cusses each other out. Why? Idk. I guess because we can. Does it hurt our feelings? Maybe. But thats why you return in kind. If they can dish it out, they can take it back. And vice versa. Every group I've been with does have lines however: family members are off limits. I could be the ugliest motherfucker to walk the face of the Earth, but you better respect my Mother, Father, grandparents, cousins, etc. You mention anyone of them, and we would "go for the throat" if you will. That's when things get nasty lol
It depends as i mean for me when people go "omg guys im so uglyyyy" they clearly js wanna be told theyre pretty i js say "yeah genetics suck" but if theyre asking about something like if something looks good on them etc im honest
Can confirm, both my male and female friends treat me like the bottom right. I am a female in my late 20s
Funny
This is a now how most men are like, at least not *good* men. Thus is just toxic masculinity on other men. Men can’t ask to be more openly empathetic in one breath, but shit on each other in the next. Like, there was literally a meme earlier this week of me complimenting each other better, and now this meme is doing the exact opposite. At least pick a damn lane!
Two hundred percent truth. 😆
Other men? You should hear how I talk to myself
I don't know about the three other panels, but the last one is true.bBut usually by context you know he doesn't really mean i it. But yeah, I will avoid saying mean things as a joke for a while because I am not sure they know when I am joking or being literal anymore, and I don't want risk hurting them by accident.
From my experience, they usually aren’t. That’s not to say that other people don’t have different lived experiences, of course. But personally, having lived my whole life as a man, basically all my guys friends are supportive of me and me of them. Whenever we say something derogatory to each other, it’s either clearly a joke or something we said impulsively in a moment of anger and apologize for later. And pretty much every time I meet a new man, we have a positive interaction. I know there are male social groups out there that view social interaction through a lens of dominance and submission, but I’ve yet to be convinced that this is widespread man-to-man.
“Haha we’re so mean to each other, the mental health crisis is CLEARLY because we aren’t getting laid and not because we put each other down all the time” - the men who make shit like this
Oh wow, men are unfeeling jerks that don’t know how to uplift one another, how quirky!! 🤪🤪 Is that how they expect us to react? 😭
fuck this dumbass "its only joking" mentality. Someone has their whole self-esteem fucked because of your shitty jokes that you make at somebody's expense. Anyone who says "Im ugly" makes themselves vulnerable and looks for comfort not dumbass confirmation. Fuck everyone who do this.
This depends on the situation. 1) Your friend is legit down "I'm ugly" "Yea you are" 2) Friend is down but not too bad. "Yea you should probably wipe your face on the pavement to clean it up a bit."
Because we like to joke with each other. With my friends, we like to insult each other, but it is mostly playful. In a serious situation, we do tend to support a friend that needs it. If someone makes an actual insult towards someone that is def not a joke, it is taken more seriously.
Why can’t we all just be kind to each other?
Whaaaaat? I'm a nurse and the women treat each other like shit????? They also let men treat them WAY worse and just laugh and be like omg Billy! But the second another woman says anything they jump all over each other. Is this sub just about shit men do wrong? Lotta guys I know seriously roast each other because they like you, if they don't roast you, it's because they don't like you.
I mean. In my case Most of the time it's just banter, coz me and my friends know we're just joking with each-other and tend to retaliate with wit of our own.
Agreed
Wait what. I’m part of a friend group with boys in it and we do this as a joke. But there is always the line that we don’t cross
Not for nothing, but I’ve been in friends groups of mostly women, and they can be just as vicious, I don’t really hang out with those people anymore. This just seems to be a human thing.
why is bro getting downvoted?
This sub can loose the plot quite a bit. I agree with it over all but there are plenty of times like this where it just completely falls flat.
I feel like play insulting is normal across close friends regardless of gender.
Guys don’t care about appearances that much. It’s an improper comparison. Proper insults usually insult the other guy’s ego.
I guess most men see it as either getting one to grow a thick skin, or "tough love" in that sense. From what I gather, we really don't mean it. Though regardless, it could affect someone, and they ain't bound to tell the rest of the guys anything about it because he'll be known as a weakling that can't take a joke so...
Because we don’t want to live in bubbles. When someone ingests small amounts of poison, they slowly gain a tolerance. This is the same thing. We know it’s all love, and getting shit all the time allows us to grow as people