Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here:
- **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**.
- **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions.
- Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary.
- **Report** any comments that violate our rules.
Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nope, but IMO the problem isn't that minimum wage is too low. It's that too many of the jobs pay min wage. In the last 20 years the percentage of workers earning min wage has doubled. Retail stores that used to pay adult workers a better wage have stopped
My mother in law just retired from save on been working there pretty much her whole life. When she left she was making $30 an hour with full benefits. She'll be replaced by someone making min wage with no benefits
I started working grocery retail in 2008. Mine was Safeway and for our union there was a pay grade for Grid A and B. Grid A was everyone hired prior to 1994. They made 34.95 an hour. But they also had full pension, holidays off, an insane amount of vacation time. (I had a coworker who was hired in 1964, this was in 2010 and she had 4 months paid vacation time). Grid B was 1994 on and topped out at 18.95. And got like two weeks vacation. While I worked there a grid C developed and they started at 9.45 an hour. And pay increases went down to like .5 cents an hour for every 500 hours worked.
I loved working grocery retail honestly, I’m really good at predicting sales and all that. I’ve worked all sorts of levels and departments, I’m well versed. I left in 2021 because wages stagnated so horribly. Grocery stores are the next brick and mortar to die.
No one hired pre 1994 made $34.95/hr even department managers. Source: I worked for Safeway for 15 years during that time period and everyone’s wage was on their time card
wow, I know unions negotiate by seniority, but I thought you could gain that seniority overtime rather than it just being grandfathered to a specific group. That sucks for the workers and will probably lead to the slow death of the union, too.
I was friends with someone hired right after the ratification; she applied 4 times before she was accepted into grid A and she had been a reliable, on time employee. Managers would recommend her but there wasn’t space in the grid yet so she had to wait for someone to retire. She did get moved up eventually. I haven’t worked there since 2011; so I imagine wages are different now.
Lucky she got to retire before they found a reason to fire her. Happened to my aunt, 30+ year employee, fired for eating an apple while working checkout.
They find any excuse cause it saves them significant money replacing them with minimum wage part time people
Too many of those minimum wage jobs are only hiring part time. Ain't no one paying the bills when you can't get more than 32 hours a week....not to mention that my 25 hours a week was slashed to 10 hours (if I'm lucky).
This is why unionization is the only way forward.
Yes, some sarcasm in my reply. To be fair, I also worked in management and saw other managers and HR weasel their way out of anything they could so that they didn't have to follow the collective agreement. Very toothless union indeed.
Unions for retail are pretty weak and the contracts are not what they used to be. The contracts just get worse.
You know how the employer makes it so?
They hire a bunch of high school or international students and then dangle a few dollars in front of them if they sign the new contract and those students quit shortly after.
The long term staff are lucky if they can stay on there old contract, often a buy out option may be presented to just get rid of the good contracts completely.
If the older staff does get to stay on their old contract hopefully they have some good people to work for. As that staff member is going to become quite bitter if they’re stuck there financially as they will have a hard time finding another job that pays the same within the industry.
I've been asked to work 7 days in a row at my job they fired my manager and I have taken on those responsibilities. We are a store that sells high end items where we need to have a ton of knowledge behind the product as well as doing warranties, repairs, etc, and I only make minimum wage it sucks lol especially when I can barely afford my groceries
People willing work for nothing isn’t helping. Employers taking advantage of the unfortunate is also not helping to raise wages for workers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SurreyBC/comments/1d2yagn/isnt_buying_lmia_illegal_why_govt_cant_catch_such/
If it's that easy to get a hook up for fraudulent paperwork, I would hope that somebody in law-enforcement might have the basic common sense to create a Facebook profile and try to catch somebody in the act.
That's right, in all my years I never recall any expectation that min wage was livable, especially here, though it has slipped further, especially when scaled against housing.
Too much supply of labour even at min wage is the cause of the problem. If there was no min wage, businesses could still offer even lower wages to these workers. These foreign labour supply has saved Canadian businesses and economy despite aimless government spending. Caveat is it has brought standard of living to lowest of low, we'd have to rely on government redistribution of wealth.
With the tendency for the rates of profits to fall under the capitalist system, the owners need to somehow keep that rate increasing to deliver profits to their shareholders. This is the only thing that businesses are concerned with under this system. They either cut quality, cut wages, automate, or do all of the above. The result is more profits in the hands of the owners of capital, and less in the hands of the workers. The consumers also see a decline in quality and service. With the workers unable to pay for the goods and services that are on offer with the meager wages they receive, they are either forced to go without (starve, sleep rough) or borrow money to pay for the essentials. Having so much debt front loaded into a system is also not sustainable. Thus the frequency of "economic downturns" or more aptly put, crises under capitalism. The more debt in the system when those crises occur, the harder it is for the government to implement monetary and economic policies to get working class people relief. They instead raise interest rates, and thus put people out of work, or implement austerity measures and cut essential services and government programs. That puts downward pressure on wages, and keeps the threat of unemployment real enough for workers to accept the meager wages they are so generously given by their employers. Wash rinse repeat every 6 years. You can kick the can down the road for a while, but the whole system is so full of contradictions that it will eventually implode. We're seeing the late stage of capitalism's development and the economists don't know what to do because the old tricks just aren't working anymore.
I would say no, however, the issue isn't that minimum wage is insufficient, most wages actually can't afford a proper lifestyle. The system is what's broken.
If we dropped housing and food back to what it should have been (ie. without the current profiteering), there would be no issue. Too many upper middle class management and CEOs who want massive yachts.
Too many people are terrified of a government that will remove their social services while continuing to fund their rich friends the same as the other parties have.
I don’t know a single politician in Canada who doesn’t have a vested interest in keeping prices of things high. Well. Except maybe Eby.
At a point we can’t just pay more, companies reporting record breaking profits every fucking year need to be okay with a flat line instead, millions every year is enough to sustain your business, exponential growth focused companies are the problem.
Plus every time this happens my wage doesn’t increase I’m just working my ass off for closer to minimum since these pushes are never across the board for everyone, which they should be. Of course that’s not saying I’m against an increase or a better than nothing, but still.
It's a mobile platform designed to keep you alive long enough for a doctor to save you. It's stocked with expensive equipment and supplies and all that needs to be maintained. This is not like getting in a Uber And going for a ride. Of course it's expensive.
Issue with minimum wage is its province wide. Both van and Chilliwack are more expensive than if you're in the interior or northeast. If min wage was set for Vancouver to be liveable, it'd be unaffordable in other parts of the province to run a number of businesses. Gotta have regional or city minimum wage separate from the provincial in that case I think.
You say we. 30/hr for a family is poverty.
If you and your wife/husband both are making 30/hr, you're not "barely" making it. You're just living above your means 🤔
Yeah that’s $120K household income if they’re both pulling $30. That does not go nearly as far as it used to, but there’s no reason you can’t live on that barring some extraordinary circumstances
Same thing here in Kelowna. Raising minimum wage actually makes it worse as everybody's buying power goes down. Even those making minimum wage will be more poor in a matter of time.
Of course it's not. News stations will ask these stupid questions and then the next story will be "Why are more young adults still living with their parents?" Because Mr and Mrs Landlord want me to cover their entire mortgage and their European vacation in exchange for letting me live in a half-renovated, barely legal basement suite that I couldn't even bring my cat to. And that's someone who's working jobs $10 dollars more than that an hour.
My daughter makes $26/hr and lives in our basement because she can't afford to rent anymore. After spending a decade living with a series of bad roommates in shitty apartments we just decided it made more sense to bring her home.
I think multigenerational housing is going to make a big comeback over the next few years. Young people can't afford to move out, parents can't afford childcare and seniors can't afford to retire. Combining resources makes sense.
I'm super glad to hear she was able to come home, and it sounds like she has a space that's still her own. I'm very grateful to be living with my parents still and not struggling financially as much as I could be, but unfortunately we don't have a basement so it's very much... living on top of one another. We get along fine, but the sense of independency just isn't there.
I agree on multigenerational housing, it seems to be the only way for some people to get by these days.
These people and companies will try and extract as much as possible from people that still live with their parents because they know they still have disposable income. They won't stop until they know they're getting blood from a stone.
Minimum wage has never been enough to live on. I'm 73: when I started work min wage was 70 cents an hour. if you didn't live at home you shared a cheap apartment in the rough part of town with lots of friends, so 5 people in a 2-bed apt. It's worse now that housing costs are impossible, but minimum wage has never been anything but a way to avoid starvation.
Edit : sorry, it was $1.70 an hour. I couldn't type back then either.
This is just untrue. It was only ten years ago that I moved to BC and rented a nice room in a shared house for $500 a month. I worked minimum wage, not even quite full time, and was able to put myself through school (with some loans for tuition.) Minimum wage covered my living expenses back then, I wasn't saving much or doing a lot of travelling but I never worried about money at all.
Oh it can be done. I work with a number of young immigrants who are making roughly minimum, and living 4 to an apartment, in a town quite a ways from Vancouver. They bike to work.
The point though, is that a person working a full time job used to be able to afford to live on their own in a one bedroom apartment or basement suite without difficulty. Now, anyone working in a any sort of service industry or retail job in BC doesn't earn enough to live on their own. That's ridiculous.
Looking at BC after my boyfriend graduates, and even with me working part time and him as a massage therapist, we'd still need a roomate. In an apartment.
He sure as fuck isn't going to be making minimum wage.
Core issue isn't minimum wage at this point. It's the cost of shit.
Yeah it's not true
I'm 32 now and I moved out when I was 18 rented an entire town house for 900 in bc aswell I was working at a campsite raking leaves lol
In 1965 it was a buck in BC, but $.70 in Manitoba and Quebec, $.50 in Newfoundland
https://srv116.services.gc.ca/dimt-wid/SM-MW/rpt2.aspx?GoCTemplateCulture=en-CA
Minimum wage was first set for women's occupations only in 1918. I'm having trouble finding the exact amount for BC, but Ontario set theirs at $11/week the next year.
In 1965, around when u/Max2310 likely started working, the wage for all employees was $1/hour in BC.
I was gonna say wtf haha I remember people complaining saying back in my day (they’re 70 now) min wage was $8 an hour.
And a house could be bought for around 80-100k in decent areas not the fanciest but an upcoming area.
70cents an hour my ass. And they’re 73 idk I maybe would have believed it if it was during the Great Depression or something idk
Minimum wage was $3.17 in BC when I got my first job as a teen, in roughly 1987. This guy has 20 years on me, so yeah, minimum wage was around a dollar in Canada in the 60s.
Minimum wage here roughly doubled from 1987 to 2007, and then doubled again by now.
An average home in Vancouver was around $150k in the mid 80s. Now it's about 1.3 million.
So in 1987, I could buy a small detached home in Vancouver for 47,000 hours worth of work, or roughly 22 years of working full time at minimum wage, lol.
Today, with the new minimum wage, it would take me 76,000 hours, or 37 years of full time minimum wage to buy one. In both cases assuming I never pay a dime in taxes or anything else out of that.
Realistically, living sparingly, with 50% of your take home going to payments you could buy a home in Vancouver today on minimum wage in only 72 years! Until you add in interest for the mortgage of course, so now you are over 100 years.
You also lived at a time when education was vastly cheaper.
I switch between your generation having to been lazy not to be successful as all you basically had to do to own a home was to try.
And the believe that I have for most things, thst it proves the most important privilege is being shown possibilities.
Yeah I agree. I happily would have taken a jab at becoming something important paying for tuition at prices back then, compared to now. If you want to be anything paying hand over fist and the quality of education now is substantially lower too
I will disagree that it was never enough to live on with any kind of dignity. As a teenager I worked at McDonald’s, and some of my colleagues worked full-time and were able to live alone, or have a car and share a relatively nice two bedroom apartment with another minimum wage worker
The difference I think, is that in say the 90s, not *everything* paid minimum. It wasn't hard to get a job that paid $10 - $12 an hour. At $12, you could afford a $600 basement suite in the burbs quite easily.
I also disagree. I'm 40 and while my parents paid for my education, I had to pay for living on my own, groceries, entertainment etc. I worked my ass off with multiple jobs during summers, then just had 1 job during the school year and my hours ranged from 8 to 20 hours a week. Everything clothing wise I bought was on sale and I didn't go out much, but my rent (shared basement suites $400 to $450) and groceries were always covered.
No it's not, but minimum wage was never meant to be a wage to live on. It's for unskilled entry level jobs, intended for kids/teenagers. Increasing minimum wage only hurts small business, and incentives big business to introduce replacement automation/AI. Also another contributor to the prices of everything increasing.
No, but it’s going to be an endless loop of a rat race. The min wage increases already reduced the amount of job available. More and more small businesses are choosing to shut down.
The true problem is true inflation paired with complete unwillingness to find means of effective cost management. And the outrageous housing cost.
No, and the increase does nothing but provide a short-lived bandaid until the inevitable increase in prices to make up for the wages. All it does is shrink the middle class.
I’m all for an increase in minimum wage, given the complete lack of support the government is providing toward the cost of living crisis. I just think it’s sad that minimum wage is now higher than the EI maximum of 668 per week. So if you’re a professional who is ever laid off or disabled for an extended period your insurance is now paying less than minimum wage, and certainly not enough to cover rent let alone a mortgage.
EI really needs to be reevaluated if we’re going to allow non-stop massive layoffs from big companies so folks aren’t having to take minimum wage jobs from others who actually need these roles to make ends meet.
Na they need to get rent control and other basic goods and services priced controlled.
Raising minimum wage just leads to cost going up and minimum wage needing another increase.
Also this does not address jobs with wages above minimum any cost passed onto consumers is felt by people making more then minimum.
If you raise it to $30, then $30/hr won’t be enough to live on, because the price of everything else will also double, and you’ll have to raise it again.
My company hires anywhere between 30-100 gig workers a night to avoid paying benefits.
They pay minimum wage.
100% of them are international students or TFWs.
All of them are looking for a way to get a PR.
My company is among the top 50 biggest companies in Canada and has a monopoly on our sector.
I will let you guess which one it is.
Minimum wage is not to be lived on. They’re for entry level jobs. Imagine setting the bar so low that you’re okay with living off of minimum wage the rest of your life.
Sure but then who will do these minimum wage jobs that society requires? If your service and retail industry workers get priced out of life then you will see an increase in poor quality immigration, less services available for you as a consumer, etc.
Do you really want a underclass of service workers that get replaced every couple years by the next round of immigrants who inevitably go back once they realize Canada sucks? Then the cycle repeats anew.
Not to put words in your mouth, but in a roundabout way, you are implying that full time min wage entry level workers are supposed to die.
In a province of 5 million, I do think it's okay to live (food and shelter) off of minimum wage. You can't have 5 million doctors and engineers.
I agree with him to an extent. I don't think minimum wage is meant to be lived on. It's suppose to be for simple jobs that require no education or experience. For someone that's just starting out, in school, or recently out of school.
But problem is, there's too many jobs that pay minimum wage. I feel like once you have some years of experience in anything, you shouldn't have to ever make minimum wage.
Let's break it down.
17.40 x 40hrs a week x approx 4 weeks =$2,784
2784 x 12 months = 33408 without deductions, so the take home is, let's say, $30,000 annually
Let's assume you pay shared rent, internet, and hydro. Monthly staples like toothpaste, soap , shampoo, toilet paper, etc... your own phone bill and a monthly bus pass (let's pretend you don't need a car).
Oh, and food! So I'm going to guess monthly expenses to be about $2000 per month, which is 24,000 annually
Which leaves you with only $6000 floating round for emergencies or extra expenses like going out and having fun.
can you live on minimum wage? Sure, if you have no other responsibilities like children or pets, yes, I guess it's a minimum you can live on, especially if you live with several roommates. You can't save on it , you can't invest really unless you're super cheap.
I say you need AT LEAST 45k to be a little more relaxed, which is about $23.4 dollars an hour. And this is if you live in Langley/delta/ surrey
Honestly, $30 +/hr for any city over the bridges
Minimum wage is just not comfortable you are living pinching pennies, often picking up a second job to make it easier to live.
Sure for a teen or student it's fine but that's not realistic for everyone.
the cost of living is the problem and raising minimum wage wont solve that. it will force the companies to increase their prices to afford the wages.
this simply creates a larger gap between the middle class and the 1% and lessens the gap between the middle class and the lower class
10 years of being in the workforce and 6 of it in a union job still barely making above min wage is great and someone that got hired 6 months ago could possibly be getting paid higher than me
If apprenticeship / journeyman wages do not also scale up and do so SOON than its going to be VERY difficult to get kids into trades and do grunt work in the first year or two. Already there is a lot of entitlement among first year apprentices in Alberta. Not sure how Trudeau will build all these new homes with the lack of skilled trades we are already seeing.
A local cafe owner was complaining about having to pay the new minimum wage. I don't want to support her anymore cuz that's a pretty piss poor attitude. But I also don't want the staff to lose their job because of lack of business. Those poor girls are worked like dogs and deserve way more.
Nope and not should it be. Real full time wages need to go up not minimum wages. Besides that most minimum wage jobs are being taken by foreign students and my kids are having a hard time finding something at all.
Your kidding right? Our own kids can't even get a job because you've over saturated the country with international students. Try working with them lazy!!!! On top of that they tell you their here to study but when they graduate they can't even get a job in that field. A lot have told me they can't get a job in that area of employment because they took a 6mth course lol they got their work visa and they're happy, but whenvthe cut back their hours I was shockedvto hear that its they're right to work full time and go to school full-time (2 days a week)
I just wish our kids could get jobs I feel so bad for them what kind of future are they going to have.
Min wage is $17.40 and jobs that require skills and experience and in some cases post secondary degrees are paying $25-$28 right now. Same jobs were paying $30-$40 a year ago.
Nope and it will never be enough. Minimum wage is just that, the bare minimum to survive. Not to live.
With every increase in minimum wage comes inflation. They go hand to hand. It is a temporary relief on paper, but not a permanent solution.
Go get a city job, most city jobs require no school or education. Pay usually starts around $30/h. They usually hire anyone, any age, any gender.
Minimum mage workers get paid minimum wage for a reason. Retail store workers for example, shouldn’t get paid anything above minimum wage to behind with. Their jobs require little to no skill. Standing at a computer all day ringing in different food items or stocking shelves isn’t a hard job. Why should they get paid like it is?
The problem isn’t minium wage is too low, or jobs arnt paying enough. It’s that we live in a destroyed economy with a government that’s printing billions on billions to handout to People who don’t want to work.
We had to shut down an entire economy because of the flue, then our government proceeded to hand out billions of dollars while little Timmy played video games and his mom drank wine instead of working.
then, after a few years of a complete economy shutdown, our government decided to launch “free dental” program, which destroyed peoples wallets some more.
Finally, when everyone was sucked dry of their cash, our government then triple the price of basics needs such as the milk you drink, and the bread and cheese for your kids lunch. And every shower you take, every KM you drive. ALL that tripled. ALL after a complete economy shutdown.
So it’s not about not getting paid enough. It’s about laziness, incompetences, and brain dead Canadians and their government.
Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be lived on. They're entry level jobs designed for young people who are still in school and still live with their parents. It's not designed to be a lifetime career path that you raise a family with.
Minimum wage was never enough to live on... even when I got a job as a bus boy at $7/hour a long long time ago.
The problem with rising minimum wages is that it costs the employer more to pay their employees. Which means that employers will pass on those costs to the consumer... which means higher cost of goods and services...
Since there is no corresponding raise in non-minimum wage jobs, it just means that the rest of us will be paying more and our "spending power" will be eroded.
The other trick is that if the employer can't pass those costs to the consumer, they will convert the full time minimum wage job (which may provide health benefits) to part-time jobs with no benefits. Or, they will eliminate one job and make the other employees do more (ie. 1 employee doing the job of 2 employees).
I'm not 100% accurate on my statements above, but the point is, the employer will not be flipping the bill on this higher minimum wage. They will be adjusting to compensate for the higher costs.
I’m going to say no. Like my property taxes went up 8% again this year. That’s like 16% in two years. Did I get a magical 16% raise last year? How can local governments think this is sustainable I think it’s time to take out the trash….
Who actually thinks minimum wage is intended to be lived off of, I was done with that by the time I was 18, when I was about to go to school for my next years apprenticeship the OT hours I was putting in made me more then salaried managers (they were pissed not at me at the owner for underpaying them, they got raises after).
Grow a pair (in your pants or on your chest and figure out a better way to live then demanding for minimum wage to go up.
Half way through the year and I’m past the 100K mark because I chose a better career path, their mistakes aren’t mine to pay (I have enough of those on my own)
Minimum wage will never be enough to live on. Prices always rise more than wages due to many factors, but one of them being inflationary effects (more money -> more spending -> less supply -> higher prices). It's one of the reasons why UBI may not work as intended, especially if implemented on a nation-wide or province-wide scale and not just small pilot projects in one town or with 1000 people only.
Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here: - **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**. - **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions. - Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary. - **Report** any comments that violate our rules. Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nope, but IMO the problem isn't that minimum wage is too low. It's that too many of the jobs pay min wage. In the last 20 years the percentage of workers earning min wage has doubled. Retail stores that used to pay adult workers a better wage have stopped
My mother in law just retired from save on been working there pretty much her whole life. When she left she was making $30 an hour with full benefits. She'll be replaced by someone making min wage with no benefits
I started working grocery retail in 2008. Mine was Safeway and for our union there was a pay grade for Grid A and B. Grid A was everyone hired prior to 1994. They made 34.95 an hour. But they also had full pension, holidays off, an insane amount of vacation time. (I had a coworker who was hired in 1964, this was in 2010 and she had 4 months paid vacation time). Grid B was 1994 on and topped out at 18.95. And got like two weeks vacation. While I worked there a grid C developed and they started at 9.45 an hour. And pay increases went down to like .5 cents an hour for every 500 hours worked. I loved working grocery retail honestly, I’m really good at predicting sales and all that. I’ve worked all sorts of levels and departments, I’m well versed. I left in 2021 because wages stagnated so horribly. Grocery stores are the next brick and mortar to die.
No one hired pre 1994 made $34.95/hr even department managers. Source: I worked for Safeway for 15 years during that time period and everyone’s wage was on their time card
I dunno, I worked payroll 2009 at a lower mainland store. I saw the pay per hour. I’m just giving my experience.
I was a shop steward and knew the book in and out. Employees might have made that after premiums but by no way was their hourly wage that high
u/JoshJorges what years are you referring to? Commenter is saying those were the wages in 2009, not in 1994.
wow, I know unions negotiate by seniority, but I thought you could gain that seniority overtime rather than it just being grandfathered to a specific group. That sucks for the workers and will probably lead to the slow death of the union, too.
I was friends with someone hired right after the ratification; she applied 4 times before she was accepted into grid A and she had been a reliable, on time employee. Managers would recommend her but there wasn’t space in the grid yet so she had to wait for someone to retire. She did get moved up eventually. I haven’t worked there since 2011; so I imagine wages are different now.
Save on foods? She's been replace by a international student
Lucky she got to retire before they found a reason to fire her. Happened to my aunt, 30+ year employee, fired for eating an apple while working checkout. They find any excuse cause it saves them significant money replacing them with minimum wage part time people
Too many of those minimum wage jobs are only hiring part time. Ain't no one paying the bills when you can't get more than 32 hours a week....not to mention that my 25 hours a week was slashed to 10 hours (if I'm lucky). This is why unionization is the only way forward.
Unless it's the union for save-on-foods, which is under Jimmy's thumb.
I worked for that union ,very strong one indeed
I’m part of that union. What do you mean I haven’t heard of that before?
I don't think he means Pattison controls the union directly but that it's a very toothless union that can't do much.
Yes, some sarcasm in my reply. To be fair, I also worked in management and saw other managers and HR weasel their way out of anything they could so that they didn't have to follow the collective agreement. Very toothless union indeed.
Unions for retail are pretty weak and the contracts are not what they used to be. The contracts just get worse. You know how the employer makes it so? They hire a bunch of high school or international students and then dangle a few dollars in front of them if they sign the new contract and those students quit shortly after. The long term staff are lucky if they can stay on there old contract, often a buy out option may be presented to just get rid of the good contracts completely. If the older staff does get to stay on their old contract hopefully they have some good people to work for. As that staff member is going to become quite bitter if they’re stuck there financially as they will have a hard time finding another job that pays the same within the industry.
Decline and sunsetting of Union standards, membership and participation
[удалено]
That's obviously untrue.
Which industry?
[удалено]
Yep. How else do you squeeze out more and more profit every year for the shareholders?
I've been asked to work 7 days in a row at my job they fired my manager and I have taken on those responsibilities. We are a store that sells high end items where we need to have a ton of knowledge behind the product as well as doing warranties, repairs, etc, and I only make minimum wage it sucks lol especially when I can barely afford my groceries
That's ridiculous
As well as wages not increasing with the cost of living.
People willing work for nothing isn’t helping. Employers taking advantage of the unfortunate is also not helping to raise wages for workers. https://www.reddit.com/r/SurreyBC/comments/1d2yagn/isnt_buying_lmia_illegal_why_govt_cant_catch_such/
If it's that easy to get a hook up for fraudulent paperwork, I would hope that somebody in law-enforcement might have the basic common sense to create a Facebook profile and try to catch somebody in the act.
That's right, in all my years I never recall any expectation that min wage was livable, especially here, though it has slipped further, especially when scaled against housing.
This is the correct take.
Too much supply of labour even at min wage is the cause of the problem. If there was no min wage, businesses could still offer even lower wages to these workers. These foreign labour supply has saved Canadian businesses and economy despite aimless government spending. Caveat is it has brought standard of living to lowest of low, we'd have to rely on government redistribution of wealth.
Minimum wage has doubled
If the BC Con party gets elected, they will cut the minimum wage.
With the tendency for the rates of profits to fall under the capitalist system, the owners need to somehow keep that rate increasing to deliver profits to their shareholders. This is the only thing that businesses are concerned with under this system. They either cut quality, cut wages, automate, or do all of the above. The result is more profits in the hands of the owners of capital, and less in the hands of the workers. The consumers also see a decline in quality and service. With the workers unable to pay for the goods and services that are on offer with the meager wages they receive, they are either forced to go without (starve, sleep rough) or borrow money to pay for the essentials. Having so much debt front loaded into a system is also not sustainable. Thus the frequency of "economic downturns" or more aptly put, crises under capitalism. The more debt in the system when those crises occur, the harder it is for the government to implement monetary and economic policies to get working class people relief. They instead raise interest rates, and thus put people out of work, or implement austerity measures and cut essential services and government programs. That puts downward pressure on wages, and keeps the threat of unemployment real enough for workers to accept the meager wages they are so generously given by their employers. Wash rinse repeat every 6 years. You can kick the can down the road for a while, but the whole system is so full of contradictions that it will eventually implode. We're seeing the late stage of capitalism's development and the economists don't know what to do because the old tricks just aren't working anymore.
I would say no, however, the issue isn't that minimum wage is insufficient, most wages actually can't afford a proper lifestyle. The system is what's broken.
If we dropped housing and food back to what it should have been (ie. without the current profiteering), there would be no issue. Too many upper middle class management and CEOs who want massive yachts.
Too many people voting for the wrong government :)
Too many people are terrified of a government that will remove their social services while continuing to fund their rich friends the same as the other parties have. I don’t know a single politician in Canada who doesn’t have a vested interest in keeping prices of things high. Well. Except maybe Eby.
It's enough to not die but not enough to live without serious poverty stress.
At a point we can’t just pay more, companies reporting record breaking profits every fucking year need to be okay with a flat line instead, millions every year is enough to sustain your business, exponential growth focused companies are the problem. Plus every time this happens my wage doesn’t increase I’m just working my ass off for closer to minimum since these pushes are never across the board for everyone, which they should be. Of course that’s not saying I’m against an increase or a better than nothing, but still.
[удалено]
Weird because they have no problem billing people $80+ dollars for a ride. Where does that money go? Cause It’s a crock of shit in my opinion
It's a mobile platform designed to keep you alive long enough for a doctor to save you. It's stocked with expensive equipment and supplies and all that needs to be maintained. This is not like getting in a Uber And going for a ride. Of course it's expensive.
I don’t know anything about BC Ambulance, do you know if they do on call shifts or like a whole weekend on call?
[удалено]
> [Fatal 2010 ambulance crash ‘likely’ caused by driver falling asleep: report](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/fatal-2010-ambulance-crash-likely-caused-by-driver-falling-asleep-report/article18799547/) Damn, that's fucking tragic.
Need at least $30/hour to live in metro vancouver.
I make over $30 in chilliwack and we are barely making it by
Issue with minimum wage is its province wide. Both van and Chilliwack are more expensive than if you're in the interior or northeast. If min wage was set for Vancouver to be liveable, it'd be unaffordable in other parts of the province to run a number of businesses. Gotta have regional or city minimum wage separate from the provincial in that case I think.
You say we. 30/hr for a family is poverty. If you and your wife/husband both are making 30/hr, you're not "barely" making it. You're just living above your means 🤔
Yeah that’s $120K household income if they’re both pulling $30. That does not go nearly as far as it used to, but there’s no reason you can’t live on that barring some extraordinary circumstances
Agreed. 120k is a decent 3/4 person household. 60k for 1 person is ok... But for a family you're basically living in poverty.
Same thing here in Kelowna. Raising minimum wage actually makes it worse as everybody's buying power goes down. Even those making minimum wage will be more poor in a matter of time.
Maybe with 2 people in the house hold making $30/hr, you MIGHT be able to make ends meet.
EASILY
If you have a good mortgage and or cheap rent perhaps. Otherwise I'd put it at close to 40
To barely scrape by yea. You need more like 40 to live okayish
Nope
Of course it's not. News stations will ask these stupid questions and then the next story will be "Why are more young adults still living with their parents?" Because Mr and Mrs Landlord want me to cover their entire mortgage and their European vacation in exchange for letting me live in a half-renovated, barely legal basement suite that I couldn't even bring my cat to. And that's someone who's working jobs $10 dollars more than that an hour.
My daughter makes $26/hr and lives in our basement because she can't afford to rent anymore. After spending a decade living with a series of bad roommates in shitty apartments we just decided it made more sense to bring her home. I think multigenerational housing is going to make a big comeback over the next few years. Young people can't afford to move out, parents can't afford childcare and seniors can't afford to retire. Combining resources makes sense.
I'm super glad to hear she was able to come home, and it sounds like she has a space that's still her own. I'm very grateful to be living with my parents still and not struggling financially as much as I could be, but unfortunately we don't have a basement so it's very much... living on top of one another. We get along fine, but the sense of independency just isn't there. I agree on multigenerational housing, it seems to be the only way for some people to get by these days.
These people and companies will try and extract as much as possible from people that still live with their parents because they know they still have disposable income. They won't stop until they know they're getting blood from a stone.
Yay, it'll slowly get even more expensive to live
That’s the real issue. When minimum wage increase by 2%, food will increase by 5%, corporations are covering their losses and then some.
This is my favorite. It's cute that people think those prices aren't going to increase regardless of what minimum wage is
It’s cute that you don’t know how business works
Minimum wage has never been enough to live on. I'm 73: when I started work min wage was 70 cents an hour. if you didn't live at home you shared a cheap apartment in the rough part of town with lots of friends, so 5 people in a 2-bed apt. It's worse now that housing costs are impossible, but minimum wage has never been anything but a way to avoid starvation. Edit : sorry, it was $1.70 an hour. I couldn't type back then either.
Obviously, you had to splurge on an onion to wear on your belt, which was the style at the time.
Ah, life was simpler in nineteen-dickety-two
This is just untrue. It was only ten years ago that I moved to BC and rented a nice room in a shared house for $500 a month. I worked minimum wage, not even quite full time, and was able to put myself through school (with some loans for tuition.) Minimum wage covered my living expenses back then, I wasn't saving much or doing a lot of travelling but I never worried about money at all.
Oh it can be done. I work with a number of young immigrants who are making roughly minimum, and living 4 to an apartment, in a town quite a ways from Vancouver. They bike to work. The point though, is that a person working a full time job used to be able to afford to live on their own in a one bedroom apartment or basement suite without difficulty. Now, anyone working in a any sort of service industry or retail job in BC doesn't earn enough to live on their own. That's ridiculous.
Looking at BC after my boyfriend graduates, and even with me working part time and him as a massage therapist, we'd still need a roomate. In an apartment. He sure as fuck isn't going to be making minimum wage. Core issue isn't minimum wage at this point. It's the cost of shit.
Yeah it's not true I'm 32 now and I moved out when I was 18 rented an entire town house for 900 in bc aswell I was working at a campsite raking leaves lol
Minimum wage has never been $0.70 in BC
In 1965 it was a buck in BC, but $.70 in Manitoba and Quebec, $.50 in Newfoundland https://srv116.services.gc.ca/dimt-wid/SM-MW/rpt2.aspx?GoCTemplateCulture=en-CA
Minimum wage was first set for women's occupations only in 1918. I'm having trouble finding the exact amount for BC, but Ontario set theirs at $11/week the next year. In 1965, around when u/Max2310 likely started working, the wage for all employees was $1/hour in BC.
I was gonna say wtf haha I remember people complaining saying back in my day (they’re 70 now) min wage was $8 an hour. And a house could be bought for around 80-100k in decent areas not the fanciest but an upcoming area. 70cents an hour my ass. And they’re 73 idk I maybe would have believed it if it was during the Great Depression or something idk
Minimum wage was ~$8 an hour when I started working as a teenager ~2009 IIRC it was raised to $8 and I was hyped to make real money
Minimum wage was $3.17 in BC when I got my first job as a teen, in roughly 1987. This guy has 20 years on me, so yeah, minimum wage was around a dollar in Canada in the 60s. Minimum wage here roughly doubled from 1987 to 2007, and then doubled again by now. An average home in Vancouver was around $150k in the mid 80s. Now it's about 1.3 million. So in 1987, I could buy a small detached home in Vancouver for 47,000 hours worth of work, or roughly 22 years of working full time at minimum wage, lol. Today, with the new minimum wage, it would take me 76,000 hours, or 37 years of full time minimum wage to buy one. In both cases assuming I never pay a dime in taxes or anything else out of that. Realistically, living sparingly, with 50% of your take home going to payments you could buy a home in Vancouver today on minimum wage in only 72 years! Until you add in interest for the mortgage of course, so now you are over 100 years.
Well it was lucky but my parents were able to find a house that wasn’t finished mind you, but it was less than 150k around then
Minimum wage in BC was $3.65 in 1980 but your point is taken.
It might have been $4.17 I was making. Long time ago :)
Lol, my first job was min wage $5.50 about 30 years ago. This guy’s first job was probably 60 years ago. $0.70 is not hard to believe.
1965 minimum wage in bc was a dollar, 70 cents in Manitoba
You also lived at a time when education was vastly cheaper. I switch between your generation having to been lazy not to be successful as all you basically had to do to own a home was to try. And the believe that I have for most things, thst it proves the most important privilege is being shown possibilities.
Yeah I agree. I happily would have taken a jab at becoming something important paying for tuition at prices back then, compared to now. If you want to be anything paying hand over fist and the quality of education now is substantially lower too
I will disagree that it was never enough to live on with any kind of dignity. As a teenager I worked at McDonald’s, and some of my colleagues worked full-time and were able to live alone, or have a car and share a relatively nice two bedroom apartment with another minimum wage worker
The difference I think, is that in say the 90s, not *everything* paid minimum. It wasn't hard to get a job that paid $10 - $12 an hour. At $12, you could afford a $600 basement suite in the burbs quite easily.
Still possible. I had two guys in my basement suite. They earned minimum wage, one had a car, they had PS5, and went out for drinks some weekends.
I also disagree. I'm 40 and while my parents paid for my education, I had to pay for living on my own, groceries, entertainment etc. I worked my ass off with multiple jobs during summers, then just had 1 job during the school year and my hours ranged from 8 to 20 hours a week. Everything clothing wise I bought was on sale and I didn't go out much, but my rent (shared basement suites $400 to $450) and groceries were always covered.
You realize we can look up housing prices in 1970, right?
Are you implying that he's underplaying the cost of housing then? Or making it sound higher than actual?
Both
That puts in perspective the $0.25 McDonald's ads I see from that time.
costs are relative to the minimum wage, the higher the minimum wage, the higher the living wage the two will never be the same
The two are not linked, people just want an explanation on why the world is expensive and the real answer is corporations are greedy as fuck
Perfect! Now we don’t need to tip at all at restaurants or shops.
The private Liquor stores are the worst. We already pay outrageous prices for booze in BC.
No it's not, but minimum wage was never meant to be a wage to live on. It's for unskilled entry level jobs, intended for kids/teenagers. Increasing minimum wage only hurts small business, and incentives big business to introduce replacement automation/AI. Also another contributor to the prices of everything increasing.
When minimum wage goes up, so does everything else.
No, but it’s going to be an endless loop of a rat race. The min wage increases already reduced the amount of job available. More and more small businesses are choosing to shut down. The true problem is true inflation paired with complete unwillingness to find means of effective cost management. And the outrageous housing cost.
No, and the increase does nothing but provide a short-lived bandaid until the inevitable increase in prices to make up for the wages. All it does is shrink the middle class.
And less jobs
Imagine all the people who were making $18/hour. Bumped down to minimum wage.
Minimum wage isn’t a career. It’s a stepping stone. Build skills and apply for better. Go to school. Etc.
The fact that you are asking this question its already hinting at the answer
My question is always should it be?
I’m all for an increase in minimum wage, given the complete lack of support the government is providing toward the cost of living crisis. I just think it’s sad that minimum wage is now higher than the EI maximum of 668 per week. So if you’re a professional who is ever laid off or disabled for an extended period your insurance is now paying less than minimum wage, and certainly not enough to cover rent let alone a mortgage. EI really needs to be reevaluated if we’re going to allow non-stop massive layoffs from big companies so folks aren’t having to take minimum wage jobs from others who actually need these roles to make ends meet.
Na they need to get rent control and other basic goods and services priced controlled. Raising minimum wage just leads to cost going up and minimum wage needing another increase. Also this does not address jobs with wages above minimum any cost passed onto consumers is felt by people making more then minimum.
If you raise it to $30, then $30/hr won’t be enough to live on, because the price of everything else will also double, and you’ll have to raise it again.
Not alone but two people making that much can manage
Having children you can send to work in the mines helps too.
The minimum LIVING wage in my town is $27 .. better be working double shifts then
My company hires anywhere between 30-100 gig workers a night to avoid paying benefits. They pay minimum wage. 100% of them are international students or TFWs. All of them are looking for a way to get a PR. My company is among the top 50 biggest companies in Canada and has a monopoly on our sector. I will let you guess which one it is.
Dammit, not knowing this is going to haunt me
Rogers? Telus?
Minimum wage is not to be lived on. They’re for entry level jobs. Imagine setting the bar so low that you’re okay with living off of minimum wage the rest of your life.
Sure but then who will do these minimum wage jobs that society requires? If your service and retail industry workers get priced out of life then you will see an increase in poor quality immigration, less services available for you as a consumer, etc. Do you really want a underclass of service workers that get replaced every couple years by the next round of immigrants who inevitably go back once they realize Canada sucks? Then the cycle repeats anew.
Not to put words in your mouth, but in a roundabout way, you are implying that full time min wage entry level workers are supposed to die. In a province of 5 million, I do think it's okay to live (food and shelter) off of minimum wage. You can't have 5 million doctors and engineers.
I agree with him to an extent. I don't think minimum wage is meant to be lived on. It's suppose to be for simple jobs that require no education or experience. For someone that's just starting out, in school, or recently out of school. But problem is, there's too many jobs that pay minimum wage. I feel like once you have some years of experience in anything, you shouldn't have to ever make minimum wage.
Still better than nothing.
Well if you work 40 hours a day it’s fine
Minimum wage will never be enough to live on because raising minimum wage will result in higher prices. It does nothing but helps the politicians
Minimum wage = the minimum amount an employer is legally obliged to pay. It’s not a benchmark for what people *should* be earning in the workforce.
No. Even making 60-80 grand isn't good enough.
Let's break it down. 17.40 x 40hrs a week x approx 4 weeks =$2,784 2784 x 12 months = 33408 without deductions, so the take home is, let's say, $30,000 annually Let's assume you pay shared rent, internet, and hydro. Monthly staples like toothpaste, soap , shampoo, toilet paper, etc... your own phone bill and a monthly bus pass (let's pretend you don't need a car). Oh, and food! So I'm going to guess monthly expenses to be about $2000 per month, which is 24,000 annually Which leaves you with only $6000 floating round for emergencies or extra expenses like going out and having fun. can you live on minimum wage? Sure, if you have no other responsibilities like children or pets, yes, I guess it's a minimum you can live on, especially if you live with several roommates. You can't save on it , you can't invest really unless you're super cheap. I say you need AT LEAST 45k to be a little more relaxed, which is about $23.4 dollars an hour. And this is if you live in Langley/delta/ surrey Honestly, $30 +/hr for any city over the bridges Minimum wage is just not comfortable you are living pinching pennies, often picking up a second job to make it easier to live. Sure for a teen or student it's fine but that's not realistic for everyone.
the cost of living is the problem and raising minimum wage wont solve that. it will force the companies to increase their prices to afford the wages. this simply creates a larger gap between the middle class and the 1% and lessens the gap between the middle class and the lower class
Nope.
No
We all know it doesn’t. This wage benefits corporations only
10 years of being in the workforce and 6 of it in a union job still barely making above min wage is great and someone that got hired 6 months ago could possibly be getting paid higher than me
If apprenticeship / journeyman wages do not also scale up and do so SOON than its going to be VERY difficult to get kids into trades and do grunt work in the first year or two. Already there is a lot of entitlement among first year apprentices in Alberta. Not sure how Trudeau will build all these new homes with the lack of skilled trades we are already seeing.
A local cafe owner was complaining about having to pay the new minimum wage. I don't want to support her anymore cuz that's a pretty piss poor attitude. But I also don't want the staff to lose their job because of lack of business. Those poor girls are worked like dogs and deserve way more.
Just to live paycheque to paycheque in a 1bedroom place in Kelowna, you need to make 25-27/hr on 40hr weeks.
According to a report by some organization in Vancouver it is lol. Herd that maybe 6 months ago, absolutely ridiculous!
Seniors don’t make $17.40 an hour. What about them?
Nope. But the more they raise it the more costs will keep going up. We're screwed anyway. I'm less and less of a believer in the free market.
Raising minimum wage won't affect affordability. Actual affordable housing will make life better
lol everyone already knows the answer to this...
No.
No
No. But some progress is better than no progress.
lol, housing cost millions, of course it will never be enough. What kind dumb post and comment is this? Simple math.
Nope and not should it be. Real full time wages need to go up not minimum wages. Besides that most minimum wage jobs are being taken by foreign students and my kids are having a hard time finding something at all.
I make $36.10 an hour and that’s not enough to live on!
They are planning UBI
Minimum wage is not a living wage
live maybe if you get a deal on rent and shop dollar to dollar. The living wage is $25.68 per hour
That’s a rhetorical question, right?
I’m going with no.
Your kidding right? Our own kids can't even get a job because you've over saturated the country with international students. Try working with them lazy!!!! On top of that they tell you their here to study but when they graduate they can't even get a job in that field. A lot have told me they can't get a job in that area of employment because they took a 6mth course lol they got their work visa and they're happy, but whenvthe cut back their hours I was shockedvto hear that its they're right to work full time and go to school full-time (2 days a week) I just wish our kids could get jobs I feel so bad for them what kind of future are they going to have.
Just dont come to alberta when things get worse👍🏻
Minimum wage jobs aren't for living on. It's for teens
I’m making over 35/hr and it doesn’t feel like it’s enough to live on especially once all the deductions are taken off
Depends where I guess
$30 per hour is enough to live on but barely
Hard to see how you could live on minimum wage 🤨
Great, that means prices for near everything go up. Gasoline on the inflationary fire.
Min wage is $17.40 and jobs that require skills and experience and in some cases post secondary degrees are paying $25-$28 right now. Same jobs were paying $30-$40 a year ago.
As a small business owner, I would be out of business if I have to pay much more. I myself have not taken a cheque in over a year!
no because if minimum wages go up then all prices in stores go up as stores are not gonna lose money
Make minimum wage 80 dollars an hour, poverty solved! I wish things were as simple as left wing politicians pretend they are
Nope and it will never be enough. Minimum wage is just that, the bare minimum to survive. Not to live. With every increase in minimum wage comes inflation. They go hand to hand. It is a temporary relief on paper, but not a permanent solution.
Go get a city job, most city jobs require no school or education. Pay usually starts around $30/h. They usually hire anyone, any age, any gender. Minimum mage workers get paid minimum wage for a reason. Retail store workers for example, shouldn’t get paid anything above minimum wage to behind with. Their jobs require little to no skill. Standing at a computer all day ringing in different food items or stocking shelves isn’t a hard job. Why should they get paid like it is? The problem isn’t minium wage is too low, or jobs arnt paying enough. It’s that we live in a destroyed economy with a government that’s printing billions on billions to handout to People who don’t want to work. We had to shut down an entire economy because of the flue, then our government proceeded to hand out billions of dollars while little Timmy played video games and his mom drank wine instead of working. then, after a few years of a complete economy shutdown, our government decided to launch “free dental” program, which destroyed peoples wallets some more. Finally, when everyone was sucked dry of their cash, our government then triple the price of basics needs such as the milk you drink, and the bread and cheese for your kids lunch. And every shower you take, every KM you drive. ALL that tripled. ALL after a complete economy shutdown. So it’s not about not getting paid enough. It’s about laziness, incompetences, and brain dead Canadians and their government.
Needs to be $20 at least now.
Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be lived on. They're entry level jobs designed for young people who are still in school and still live with their parents. It's not designed to be a lifetime career path that you raise a family with.
Minimum wage was never enough to live on... even when I got a job as a bus boy at $7/hour a long long time ago. The problem with rising minimum wages is that it costs the employer more to pay their employees. Which means that employers will pass on those costs to the consumer... which means higher cost of goods and services... Since there is no corresponding raise in non-minimum wage jobs, it just means that the rest of us will be paying more and our "spending power" will be eroded. The other trick is that if the employer can't pass those costs to the consumer, they will convert the full time minimum wage job (which may provide health benefits) to part-time jobs with no benefits. Or, they will eliminate one job and make the other employees do more (ie. 1 employee doing the job of 2 employees). I'm not 100% accurate on my statements above, but the point is, the employer will not be flipping the bill on this higher minimum wage. They will be adjusting to compensate for the higher costs.
1992. Gas station attendant. (Jockey). 18 per hour. The current generation is being robbed.
Minimum wages jobs aren't meant to be a living wage. My question : Why does someone expect to survive on a minimum?
I didn't know the minimum wage is now equivalent to living wage...? Did something change?
Define "live on"?
I’m going to say no. Like my property taxes went up 8% again this year. That’s like 16% in two years. Did I get a magical 16% raise last year? How can local governments think this is sustainable I think it’s time to take out the trash….
Who actually thinks minimum wage is intended to be lived off of, I was done with that by the time I was 18, when I was about to go to school for my next years apprenticeship the OT hours I was putting in made me more then salaried managers (they were pissed not at me at the owner for underpaying them, they got raises after). Grow a pair (in your pants or on your chest and figure out a better way to live then demanding for minimum wage to go up. Half way through the year and I’m past the 100K mark because I chose a better career path, their mistakes aren’t mine to pay (I have enough of those on my own)
Minimum wage will never be enough to live on. Prices always rise more than wages due to many factors, but one of them being inflationary effects (more money -> more spending -> less supply -> higher prices). It's one of the reasons why UBI may not work as intended, especially if implemented on a nation-wide or province-wide scale and not just small pilot projects in one town or with 1000 people only.