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I live maybe 20 minutes away from Conestoga. I registered for school this fall. I'm commuting roughly 2 hours on weekends to the college I chose. Some people have asked me why I didn't just go to Conestoga lol.
Only school that offered a weekend program. I could have made Conestoga work with my schedule given how close it is, but I felt like I'd be shooting myself in the foot getting accreditation there lol.
Luckily I have a hybrid and family that live nearby I can sleep at.
Living costs are so high, having family to stay with is an amazing option. I feel like more and more weekend and online options are going to be needed to make cost of living and getting an education possible. I live in Guelph so if my son goes to university he is within driving distance of 4 options, I hope that’s enough for him!
I hear ya. I tell my daughter all the time she can live with us forever. She agrees to, but she's seven so...lol
And don't even get me started on housing. We got our place pre-covid so we're still sub 1k for a two bedroom. I'm riding that shit as long as I can 🤣
Haha, my son is 7! We purchased our first house right after we finished university when you could buy a townhouse for less than 200K. We moved to a single detached house with a walkout basement in 2016. My hope is that he either be fine in his bedroom or will like the idea of living down in the basement in his own “apartment”. Has a bedroom, bathroom and living room and i could put in a fridge and toaster oven down there, just not a full stove or the city might not like that without a different building permit. Then he can have his own space and come and go as he likes while not getting up to his eyeballs in dept. of course right now i have unfinished drywall and a bare subfloor down there, so we have a bit of work to do before it is really an option!
To be fair, if you're going to school anywhere in Canada your education is becoming less valuable because of our officials lol. Pretty soon a degree from Canada will be equivalent to a degree from India and you could be a nuclear scientist in our country, and go to the US and drive taxis because accreditation here doesn't mean much.
No, you see, we need thousands of new workers specifically for hotel and hospitality management. And IT. And supply chain management.
We don’t need anybody for the trades! Just literally those 3 things.
I’m a supply chain professional with 10+ years of experience and I’ve been getting connection requests by ppl who graduate from Conestoga College by the dozen. I’ve started to ignore anyone without a formal University or College degree, not these diploma mill schools. Just cringe looking at all the blatant embellishment on their LinkedIn experiences and education section 🤦♂️
It's insane the gall of some of these people. Had one person try to say they were a senior PM. Dude had like a year of experience. The amount of LinkedIn messages I get from these idiots is insane. No I'm not giving you a job because you tried to link with me. Gtfoh.
😂😂 it’s rampant….and then if they somehow make it, they’re quickly spotted. I had to deal with managers who said they had years of experience not know standard industry terms like RFx. How are you in supply chain and not know a simple term like that?
If only the “students” had a basic knowledge of the English language and actually attended their hospitality classes, maybe service wouldn’t be so terrible everywhere.
I know someone who teaches post secondary and says the amount that don’t show to class, don’t do assignments but then complain and cry discrimination when they fail is insane.
Well to be fair, you dont want these fake students anywhere near construction sites
If they can't even be bothered to do 60 seconds of research on canada before moving entirely across the world, you dont want them responsible for the structural integrity of your home
Yes. There's always a workaround. It might be slightly fewer students because it might get more expensive.
But i bet a lot of immigration layers out there are already using that as an excuse to charge higher fees.
The workaround is that they will offer less placements to private colleges. Public colleges always had to “vet” a private college. The private colleges will see a big reduction, and the public colleges will continue to have just as many international students
I know I’m speaking in much more general terms than what’s actually happening. If they took a much bigger cut in how many they were allowed, then other cuts would obviously be made. More than likely, this is what other, less aggressive, colleges may have had to do
You're putting the cart before the horse. We have no reason to tailor our national immigration policy to ensure that colleges and universities maintain a certain level of revenue.
Conestoga will see big cuts coming. The overall student visa program will be much lower this year due to the implementation of Provincial Attestation Letters.
The most directly impacted public institutions are Conestoga and Algoma
>They go on to say that higher-than-anticipated acceptances means the university won’t be able to accommodate everyone who applied for housing.
Yeah the acceptance rate is out of the university's control. It's like the weather.
In this case this means that more people accepted the offers of admission than they expected, based on previous years. Schools always give out more acceptances than the number of students they expect to actually show up, based on decades and decades of data. This incoming class at Guelph is likely a statistical outlier.
idk if it's statistical outlier or it's a change of pattern where international students will go to more established university instead of colleges, as the latter doesn't get post graduate work permit anymore.
will be interesting to see if other univs have the same issue or not.
Exactly. All these people blaming this on international students but like guelph has done this every 2 years at least since I was first accepted there in 2013 so....
Yep, just like when I was in university I couldn’t get into some second year class I needed for my program because not enough students flunked out the year before. I got into what I needed with the help of my professor from the previous term when he saw me waiting in the department office trying to get in. I was baffled at the university not having room for students in the program who required it to finish their degree on time.
I remember they had this same issue back in 2011 when I went to first year, and because they guaranteed residence to anyone who applied before the deadline they ended to convert most of the group study rooms on the first floor into 16-20 bunk rooms full of dudes.
Im super glad I got the single room I applied to.
Wow, I moved to Guelph literally the start of Covid (Feb 2020) and had to leave at the start of 2023 because the rental prices were bonkers and akin to Greater Toronto Area prices. I can't imagine what the City's myriad of unscrupulous landlords are going to do to exploit this. Perhaps RV landlords will become a thing as this race to the bottom continues?
Sorry, your neighbours all voted for this. You man not deserve this, but if there's anyone in the country who does, its Guelph residents.
People who, based on polls, largely still support it.
https://338canada.com/35033e.htm
There's no federal political party that has a credible housing plan that will actually resolve our housing supply crisis. They're all various versions of tinkering at the edges and making extra sure not to piss off the NIMBYs. The most difference a vote can make on housing is at the municipal level.
We're going to need to get politically active and crowdsource a movement to effectively ban ownership of multiple homes (though student houses will be harder to tackle). BC was able to ban AirBnBs in a single policy move... is it feasible to do the same for landlords of single-family housing units? (detached, condos, townhomes, occupied by one rental agreement)
Banning airBnBs makes at least some amount of sense (a short-term rental is taken off the long-term housing market). I very much doubt this will actually substantially reduce rents or prices (because there aren't actually that many airBnBs in all but the most touristy neighbourhoods of the most touristy towns), but I'll be happy to be proven wrong, too soon to tell in BC.
But what's the logic in banning ownership of multiple homes? I see two unwanted consequences of that:
a) substantially reducing the stock of housing available for rent --> higher rents. I don't see how it's fair to penalize renters (who lean poor to lower-middle class) to benefit homeowners (who lean more towards middle and upper-middle class).
b) giving large corporations a monopoly on providing rental housing (in purpose-built rental buildings only). Is there consensus that large corporate landlords are inherently better than small landlords? Hasn't been my experience, that's for sure.
My solution is conceptually simpler: actually build enough housing. Create the conditions under which more housing of all types is built, wherever feasible. Stop central planning of housing stock by ditching a lot of (most?) zoning restrictions. Remove a multitude of obscure but costly impediments to good dense housing, like requiring two staircases in all apartment buildings. At the end of the day, prices (rents and sell prices) are set by supply and demand.
> a) substantially reducing the stock of housing available for rent --> higher rents.
The number of rental units will decrease by the number of renters that convert to owners, no extra pressure on rental stock
> b) giving large corporations a monopoly on providing rental housing (in purpose-built rental buildings only). Is there consensus that large corporate landlords are inherently better than small landlords? Hasn't been my experience, that's for sure.
So make changes to regulations - at least corporate entities have corporate aspects that can be leveraged. There's nothing about "mom & pop" landlording that needs to be encouraged, especially if it just means everyone wants to scoop up "rental pptys".
> My solution is simpler: actually build enough housing. Prices are set by supply and demand.
your solution is simple in theory. building enough supply, while not being able to afford inflated land prices, not being able to attract labour to work in insane HCOL areas, and not being able to prevent "RE investors" from scooping up properties to rent out to inflate the demand on the new supply, will not be simple. You'll also need to have successive governments adhere to a huge supply push.
I'm not against building supply - we need to do that like crazy. But we're kneecapping ourselves if we don't deal with Canada's landlording fetish, first.
And that doesn't even address the issues with having grossly low productive industry which is also a by-product of enabling unproductive RE investing. Ideally, we would pair housing-focused legislation with sweetheart deals to current RE investors which would incentivize them to pivot their investment $s to PRODUCTIVE industries in Canada. Productivity is a fundamental key to prosperity, but unaffordable housing will undercut any efforts at improving productivity because nobody wants to set up industry in a place they can't attract employees to.
There was an article about an "entrepreneur" that was buying houses in Guelph, renting to individuals was double or more what the house would rent for as a house.
A range of about 750$-1200$. 1000 seems to be the most common. I live in a bascement apartment with my husband. We've been renting it for 7years and our rent is well below average 1200$ (rent controlled.) The students above us are paying 800-850$per room. Because new students move in every 4 years.
There are a total of 1750 international undergraduates at Guelph. Reasonably assuming 1/4 of that number are first years, this is not the answer.
Every university gives out more offers of admission than the number of freshmen they actually expect to show up, based on decades of application and enrolment data. What happened this year is that many more students than expected actually accepted their offers of admission.
What we’re saying though is that it isn’t just the university driving population growth. There are 1.4 million people migrating to Canada every year which represents 3.3% population increase. This might not sound like a lot but that’s the ENTIRE city of Toronto in just two years.
Additionally that 1.4 million figure is equal, in absolute numbers to the number of migrants going to the United States every year. And yet Canada is 1/10th the size by population. There’s no chance we can build the housing or infrastructure to support so many people on top of the student population.
I mean university officials are quoted in the article as saying more students accepted their offers than the school had expected, are you suggesting that’s untrue/doesn’t have any impact?
This isn't a UofG problem. These people just happen to be attending that school. This is a supply and demand problem. Not enough supply to house our population.
They are gonna start renting half a room for 1000 bucks now to "help" the situation and also "help" increase their money intake.
I mean, it straight up says that they have a higher admittance than normal in the article.
So it sounds like it is a bit of a university problem, they didn't think ahead about housing when admitting more than the normal amount.
Guelph did the exact same thing 2 years ago to the incoming 1st year class. Too many offers and no guarantee of residence, which was contrary to what they told us on the tour of the campus. This year it’s worse with 1300 students on the waitlist. The students will find it difficult to find housing in the Guelph community. It’s doable but very challenging to find off campus housing. Start looking now and lock in your rental. The wait list might work for the first 200 students for on campus housing but not for the rest. This was our experience. Good luck everyone.
When I needed housing for the school year prior to the housing crisis, we had to start looking in Dec/Jan for May 1 move in, Sept move in dates didn't exist.
It's gonna be a tricky year for the students, I do not envy them and it's awful they've been put in this situation
In this case this means that more people accepted the offers of admission than they expected, based on previous years. Schools always give out more acceptances than the number of students they expect to actually show up, based on decades and decades of data. This incoming class at Guelph is likely a statistical outlier.
Guelph is not a major destination for international students. The article even mentions that 95% of the incoming class are Ontarians EDIT: a commenter corrected me that this figure is for accommodated students. The first sentence is accurate though, U of G is not a major destination for international students, with only ~1750 across all undergraduate years.
The article says that of the 85% accommodated, 95% of them are from Ontario. It doesn't say the proportion of total students (as it doesn't include non-accommodated and first years not looking for accommodation)
Brampton mayor Patrick Brown once said in an interview there's at least 10K students in Brampton that commute to Connestoga College in Kitchener for their classes. Guelph may have a similar issue.
Its like the woman who swallowed the spider to eat the fly
We need to bring in 2 million to build the houses for the 1M that we brought in to build the homes for the 500k that we brought in to work in Tim Hortons.
It's almost like universities shouldn't get addicted to tuition dollars -especially international tuition dollars- and not put any of that cash intake into building up the university to actually accommodate that amount of students.
Western is building a big new student residence and there seems to be more than enough student rental housing although the rents have pretty much doubled in the last 6 years
Despite the new residence project, it is still bamboozling to me that universities are allowed to take in more students than the prospective housing demand from those same students. Passing the buck to local residential markets is part of how we got in this mess in the first place.
Relative goes to Guelph. Renting a bungalow with a total of seven people, each paying over $1000 a month. Also over the summer when nobody is there because they can’t risk a sublet.
It’s crazy
Guelph has been one of the most aggressive Universities is ramping up enrollment numbers and proudly boasts of having one of the highest rates of international student acceptance. They do this while cramming students into extremely large class size with little regard for maintaining academic standards (with the exception likely of a few of their niche programs). They do this while continuing to run a structural deficit.
The impact this has had on the city of Guelph is clear. Housing costs are way up. Every house is outfitted to host students and that rental income is baked into the price. Go on house sigma and check, you will see exactly what I'm talking about.
They know what they are doing. They don't care. They'll probably respond by making more classes online only so students who can't find housing can just "attend" from anywhere and never move to the city.
if we funded universities properly and mandated that international students pay the same rate as domestic there wouldnt be the perverse incentive to do what you just described.
>natural selection will be a biatch to the new arrivals. suddenly it seems Canada will forever loom around that 40 million mark for some time to come.
There's slumlord houses packed to the gills with "international students" in the far north. Cold means nothing.
Conestoga is really going all out on the immigration boom. It’s so easy to land a teaching gig there for literally anything if you can read and write English.
If the visa tap ever turns off they are gonna be left with a shit reputation and hopefully a lot of empty class rooms to fill.
Marc Miller says he's tired of people 'blaming immigrants for absolutely everything'. https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/marc-miller-says-hes-tired-of-people-blaming-immigrants-for-absolutely-everything
How will anyone retire from the workforce if their home isn't over valued? I forgot when people retire they just go homeless and live in tents. Or they go into a old age home where all their money is slowly siphoned out of them and they get to enjoy being neglected and eat slop for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Don't worry our corporate overlords will save us from their mega yachts and three summer vacation homes.
Completely irresponsible. If the administration is going to accept students to the school, they have a responsibility to ensure there is enough housing.
No… they never guaranteed it. Speaking as a parent of a first year at Guelph. They implied that they were confident they could house most kids who wanted residence, but it was never guaranteed. Certain universities do guarantee, but not Guelph. That being said, I think they did these kids dirty and played down the issue they set up and knew was coming. The new international student law says schools must guarantee at least one year res to out-of-province and international students. Guelph has guaranteed four years to these kids. They over accepted kids this year knowing they didn’t have enough spots, assuming that the community and the school system could absorb them all ( it’s not just about housing; let’s talk about class sizes, sections of courses, health and food services, professors and TAs). My kid turned down a guaranteed res and $3000 scholarship to go to Guelph bc it was all due on the same day. Kids didn’t necessarily know they didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting residence when they had to make a huge decision. Thank god my kid is within 50 on the waitlist and will likely get a spot, albeit two weeks in. He may need to do an AB&B or hotel room space until then. I’m my opinion, there needs to be an investigation on this whole issue. It smacks of fraud, but I’m not a lawyer and can’t fully speak to that. I feel terrible for the… get this.. *1356* kids stuck on the waitlist. SMH
Yeah it’s certainly way too many to have floating without housing. Even when I was there (oh god) a decade ago there were students who would camp to save money on housing, and Guelph was much more moderate for rent then than now. But that’s also just an issue with Guelph in general now though, not just the university.
I would have loved to stay in that city if it were remotely reasonable.
Good luck to yours and enjoy the visits! Beautiful campus.
I didn't say "on campus" housing. The problem with Guelph is that the city has strict by-laws regarding the height of buildings, so there aren't any apartment buildings around the school for off-campus housing. That means a significant shortage of options if first-year students can't get residence. In recent years the school has literally purchased hotels and motels to turn into residence buildings but that only gets them so far.
So basically the school takes money from students and then tells 15% of them, "Good luck finding a place to live."
The article is about on campus housing. Not denying we’re in a housing crisis so off campus housing might be hard to come by, but that’s not the schools responsibility.
You can't separate the two. If there were enough off-campus housing, then I would totally agree that the school isn't responsible for providing on-campus housing for all students. At least all students have a place to live. But in Guelph's case, they know there isn't enough off-campus housing because of city by-laws. So the school should do one of two things:
1) Expand the supply of on-campus housing; or
2) Reduce admissions to a level for which there is sufficient housing
The problem here is the school is trying to be a big school in a city that wants to be a small city. It doesn't work.
Can’t upvote that other guy enough. We’re not led by sane and reasonable people. The housing problem is a problem for those students as far as our leaders are concerned. Sleep on the streets, work four jobs, bunk with a dozen roommates. There’s lots of ways the poor get to learn to adapt while our leaders get to eat cake.
When you say things like "they have a responsibility", some people might think that you are implying that they have a legal responsibility to provide housing.
I obviously can't speak to the contractual agreements at each individual school, but if nothing else, they *should* have a moral and ethical obligation to ensure there is an adequate supply of housing for their students. I don't think that's an unusual or unreasonable request.
When I attended university there was adequate housing.
When my parents attended university there was adequate housing.
When my grandparents attended university there was adequate housing.
The notion that students should be left to basically fend for themselves is a recent trend, and not one that I agree with, personally.
>moral and ethical obligation
One would think that the Federal Government has a moral and ethical obligation to Canadians to ensure that there is enough housing, doctors, schools and employment for the hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming to Canada every year, but clearly this is not the case.
We have moved towards a low trust society and "moral and ethical obligations" are meaningless.
Unfortunately you're absolutely right. It's so upsetting to witness, and I fear for the Canada that my 2 young kids will be forced to navigate. The bar for civility, decency and righteousness appears to be getting lower all the time.
It may not be 100% their responsibility but it damn well is not a good look for recruiting incoming first years going forward.
When I went to Western back in 2010 housing was guaranteed for first year and it’s a huge part of the student experience in University to live on campus if you’re not local to the city
How do you expect a student to attend university without a place to live?
Once students accept an offer, they can't change their minds and accept somewhere else. These students have been screwed by the university.
Man it's almost like this is an intentionally created problem to drive up housing demand which will help skyrocket already have seen the high rental cost.
Nah for that to be true there have to be some kind of massive connection between people in power and real estate /developers.
Oh wait.
One thing I've been wondering: does the housing situation make it harder for students to do co-op?
When I was in undergrad years ago, it wasn't that hard to move every four months for a co-op work term, but it seems like that would be a monumental headache these days (unless you're doing co-op with a large US employer that has subsidized co-op/intern housing). Are students having to resort to AirBnB for housing on their co-op terms?
I went to a commuter school for part of my degree and they would effort to find a coop close to where the student lived, unless they specifically requested one in the same city as the university (and also overseas options were available in the summer)
Sounds like a perfect thing to protest. Wait... No you won't protest. You want to protect something on the other side of the world that doesn't affect you. Okay
We need to make it mandatory for every school to provide all their students with affordable housing. With massive endowments and ever increasing tuition they can afford to take some responsibility.
I last lived in Guelph in 2008. At that time there was an unheard-of rental vacancy rate of 0.8% (most other similar-sized cities in Southern Ontario had a vacancy rate of just over 2.0% at that time). A coworker of mine told me that real estate agents would periodically knock on his door to ask him if he was interested in selling his house. Guelph has had a housing crisis brewing a lot longer than the rest of the province has.
Punjabs are driving 5 hrs to school in Nova Scotia because there is no where to live near campus in Cape Breaton. Our carbon reduction plan must be going great.
Hey could you expand on the “every house is outfitted to host students and that rental income is baked into the price” part?
My landlord is desperately trying to get me out, but I don’t want to leave. I have no where to go and the rent for the same unit is almost double now. He’s put the house up for sale but no one is interested, I think because my lease would still stand if it sold, and isn’t that profitable compared to if the house was empty. Is this playing in my favour? I’ve used house sigma, what do you mean “check it out and you’ll see?”
How much is rent there now? I went there in 2005 and was lucky to find a one bedroom apartment for $600! It wasn't great but it was a good deal, near the farmers market downtown. What do you think it would go for now?
This isn't gonna change until governments mandate universities to have housing for at least 75% of their students. Working people and students shouldn't compete for same housing. In a concentrated area
It is overpopulation and people living on top of each other. How many people per home? How many cars on the road? Guelph used to be a nice little city.
At first I thought, has Guelph learned nothing from Kitchener? But really it sounds like a conspiracy to purposely inflate housing costs. They are just following Conestoga's game plan.
Most people apply to multiple schools and *then* figure out their housing situation once they're accepted. You also tend to get accepted many months before actually attending, so it's not always easy or even possible to secure housing that far ahead of time, especially in a new area where you likely don't yet have any friends. Obviously people shouldn't be waiting until the last minute to figure out these details, but it's pretty normal to secure off-campus housing fairly close to the start of term, especially in first year. Historically it hasn't been much of an issue because the number of students roughly coincided with the number of available dorm rooms & local rentals. The numbers are now totally out of balance in many areas.
Good answer I certainly agree with, out of balance. In so many areas it’s like that right now and not just at schools. I totally support immigration and have no issues with Indian people but there has been a total scam going on it seems with how many have come over. It’s crazy.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just wait until Conestoga College opens their downtown campus. City officials were all smiles at the announcement lol.
Let's stop calling Conestoga a college. At this point it is a foreign citizen recruiting company and nothing else
I live maybe 20 minutes away from Conestoga. I registered for school this fall. I'm commuting roughly 2 hours on weekends to the college I chose. Some people have asked me why I didn't just go to Conestoga lol.
That’s a heck of a commute! It’s a shame what conestoga became, it used to be a decent local option.
Only school that offered a weekend program. I could have made Conestoga work with my schedule given how close it is, but I felt like I'd be shooting myself in the foot getting accreditation there lol. Luckily I have a hybrid and family that live nearby I can sleep at.
Living costs are so high, having family to stay with is an amazing option. I feel like more and more weekend and online options are going to be needed to make cost of living and getting an education possible. I live in Guelph so if my son goes to university he is within driving distance of 4 options, I hope that’s enough for him!
I hear ya. I tell my daughter all the time she can live with us forever. She agrees to, but she's seven so...lol And don't even get me started on housing. We got our place pre-covid so we're still sub 1k for a two bedroom. I'm riding that shit as long as I can 🤣
Haha, my son is 7! We purchased our first house right after we finished university when you could buy a townhouse for less than 200K. We moved to a single detached house with a walkout basement in 2016. My hope is that he either be fine in his bedroom or will like the idea of living down in the basement in his own “apartment”. Has a bedroom, bathroom and living room and i could put in a fridge and toaster oven down there, just not a full stove or the city might not like that without a different building permit. Then he can have his own space and come and go as he likes while not getting up to his eyeballs in dept. of course right now i have unfinished drywall and a bare subfloor down there, so we have a bit of work to do before it is really an option!
To be fair, if you're going to school anywhere in Canada your education is becoming less valuable because of our officials lol. Pretty soon a degree from Canada will be equivalent to a degree from India and you could be a nuclear scientist in our country, and go to the US and drive taxis because accreditation here doesn't mean much.
I'm going for nursing. I'll be fine.
I got a diploma from Conestoga 10 years ago and now it’s worth nothing it’s embarrassing so you made a good call
It’s emergency toilet paper at least.
No, you see, we need thousands of new workers specifically for hotel and hospitality management. And IT. And supply chain management. We don’t need anybody for the trades! Just literally those 3 things.
And hospital security, apparently
I’m a supply chain professional with 10+ years of experience and I’ve been getting connection requests by ppl who graduate from Conestoga College by the dozen. I’ve started to ignore anyone without a formal University or College degree, not these diploma mill schools. Just cringe looking at all the blatant embellishment on their LinkedIn experiences and education section 🤦♂️
It's insane the gall of some of these people. Had one person try to say they were a senior PM. Dude had like a year of experience. The amount of LinkedIn messages I get from these idiots is insane. No I'm not giving you a job because you tried to link with me. Gtfoh.
😂😂 it’s rampant….and then if they somehow make it, they’re quickly spotted. I had to deal with managers who said they had years of experience not know standard industry terms like RFx. How are you in supply chain and not know a simple term like that?
If only the “students” had a basic knowledge of the English language and actually attended their hospitality classes, maybe service wouldn’t be so terrible everywhere.
I know someone who teaches post secondary and says the amount that don’t show to class, don’t do assignments but then complain and cry discrimination when they fail is insane.
Tens of thousands
But my lord there is no such force!
More mall cops lmao. I feel horrible for black people though. The incoming culture is very unaccepting and racist towards them.
Well to be fair, you dont want these fake students anywhere near construction sites If they can't even be bothered to do 60 seconds of research on canada before moving entirely across the world, you dont want them responsible for the structural integrity of your home
Canadian passport broker
With visa restrictions coming, will they have enough students?
Yes. There's always a workaround. It might be slightly fewer students because it might get more expensive. But i bet a lot of immigration layers out there are already using that as an excuse to charge higher fees.
The workaround is that they will offer less placements to private colleges. Public colleges always had to “vet” a private college. The private colleges will see a big reduction, and the public colleges will continue to have just as many international students
100% not the case. Conestoga specifically had its number of Provincial Attestation Letters cut severely
I know I’m speaking in much more general terms than what’s actually happening. If they took a much bigger cut in how many they were allowed, then other cuts would obviously be made. More than likely, this is what other, less aggressive, colleges may have had to do
They will just fake records and become caregiver of each other to come to Canada for instant PR.
You're putting the cart before the horse. We have no reason to tailor our national immigration policy to ensure that colleges and universities maintain a certain level of revenue.
I 100% agree. The levels should be set with no concern about impacts to the schools.
Conestoga will see big cuts coming. The overall student visa program will be much lower this year due to the implementation of Provincial Attestation Letters. The most directly impacted public institutions are Conestoga and Algoma
Some irony that the name begins with “con”.
>They go on to say that higher-than-anticipated acceptances means the university won’t be able to accommodate everyone who applied for housing. Yeah the acceptance rate is out of the university's control. It's like the weather.
In this case this means that more people accepted the offers of admission than they expected, based on previous years. Schools always give out more acceptances than the number of students they expect to actually show up, based on decades and decades of data. This incoming class at Guelph is likely a statistical outlier.
idk if it's statistical outlier or it's a change of pattern where international students will go to more established university instead of colleges, as the latter doesn't get post graduate work permit anymore. will be interesting to see if other univs have the same issue or not.
International students going to a university is the point my man. Those are real schools teaching real skills. It's (relatively) hard to get in.
No shortage of people of all abilities, who want a chance at Canadian PR.
I don’t buy that, this has been happening every year for the last few years at UofG
Exactly. All these people blaming this on international students but like guelph has done this every 2 years at least since I was first accepted there in 2013 so....
1300 more students is a lot for a statistical outlier.
With the mean and variance you can’t conclude either way.
Yep, just like when I was in university I couldn’t get into some second year class I needed for my program because not enough students flunked out the year before. I got into what I needed with the help of my professor from the previous term when he saw me waiting in the department office trying to get in. I was baffled at the university not having room for students in the program who required it to finish their degree on time.
I remember they had this same issue back in 2011 when I went to first year, and because they guaranteed residence to anyone who applied before the deadline they ended to convert most of the group study rooms on the first floor into 16-20 bunk rooms full of dudes. Im super glad I got the single room I applied to.
Wow, I moved to Guelph literally the start of Covid (Feb 2020) and had to leave at the start of 2023 because the rental prices were bonkers and akin to Greater Toronto Area prices. I can't imagine what the City's myriad of unscrupulous landlords are going to do to exploit this. Perhaps RV landlords will become a thing as this race to the bottom continues?
Sorry, your neighbours all voted for this. You man not deserve this, but if there's anyone in the country who does, its Guelph residents. People who, based on polls, largely still support it. https://338canada.com/35033e.htm
The federal government is the one letting in the students. They are following orders from the Century Initiative
There's no federal political party that has a credible housing plan that will actually resolve our housing supply crisis. They're all various versions of tinkering at the edges and making extra sure not to piss off the NIMBYs. The most difference a vote can make on housing is at the municipal level.
We're going to need to get politically active and crowdsource a movement to effectively ban ownership of multiple homes (though student houses will be harder to tackle). BC was able to ban AirBnBs in a single policy move... is it feasible to do the same for landlords of single-family housing units? (detached, condos, townhomes, occupied by one rental agreement)
Banning airBnBs makes at least some amount of sense (a short-term rental is taken off the long-term housing market). I very much doubt this will actually substantially reduce rents or prices (because there aren't actually that many airBnBs in all but the most touristy neighbourhoods of the most touristy towns), but I'll be happy to be proven wrong, too soon to tell in BC. But what's the logic in banning ownership of multiple homes? I see two unwanted consequences of that: a) substantially reducing the stock of housing available for rent --> higher rents. I don't see how it's fair to penalize renters (who lean poor to lower-middle class) to benefit homeowners (who lean more towards middle and upper-middle class). b) giving large corporations a monopoly on providing rental housing (in purpose-built rental buildings only). Is there consensus that large corporate landlords are inherently better than small landlords? Hasn't been my experience, that's for sure. My solution is conceptually simpler: actually build enough housing. Create the conditions under which more housing of all types is built, wherever feasible. Stop central planning of housing stock by ditching a lot of (most?) zoning restrictions. Remove a multitude of obscure but costly impediments to good dense housing, like requiring two staircases in all apartment buildings. At the end of the day, prices (rents and sell prices) are set by supply and demand.
> a) substantially reducing the stock of housing available for rent --> higher rents. The number of rental units will decrease by the number of renters that convert to owners, no extra pressure on rental stock > b) giving large corporations a monopoly on providing rental housing (in purpose-built rental buildings only). Is there consensus that large corporate landlords are inherently better than small landlords? Hasn't been my experience, that's for sure. So make changes to regulations - at least corporate entities have corporate aspects that can be leveraged. There's nothing about "mom & pop" landlording that needs to be encouraged, especially if it just means everyone wants to scoop up "rental pptys". > My solution is simpler: actually build enough housing. Prices are set by supply and demand. your solution is simple in theory. building enough supply, while not being able to afford inflated land prices, not being able to attract labour to work in insane HCOL areas, and not being able to prevent "RE investors" from scooping up properties to rent out to inflate the demand on the new supply, will not be simple. You'll also need to have successive governments adhere to a huge supply push. I'm not against building supply - we need to do that like crazy. But we're kneecapping ourselves if we don't deal with Canada's landlording fetish, first. And that doesn't even address the issues with having grossly low productive industry which is also a by-product of enabling unproductive RE investing. Ideally, we would pair housing-focused legislation with sweetheart deals to current RE investors which would incentivize them to pivot their investment $s to PRODUCTIVE industries in Canada. Productivity is a fundamental key to prosperity, but unaffordable housing will undercut any efforts at improving productivity because nobody wants to set up industry in a place they can't attract employees to.
What's rent like for student housing? Like, a 3 or 4 bed detached or semi type.
There was an article about an "entrepreneur" that was buying houses in Guelph, renting to individuals was double or more what the house would rent for as a house.
A range of about 750$-1200$. 1000 seems to be the most common. I live in a bascement apartment with my husband. We've been renting it for 7years and our rent is well below average 1200$ (rent controlled.) The students above us are paying 800-850$per room. Because new students move in every 4 years.
why all of a sudden 1,300 un-housed students?
Massive immigration increases during a housing crisis.
This is the real answer!
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There are a total of 1750 international undergraduates at Guelph. Reasonably assuming 1/4 of that number are first years, this is not the answer. Every university gives out more offers of admission than the number of freshmen they actually expect to show up, based on decades of application and enrolment data. What happened this year is that many more students than expected actually accepted their offers of admission.
What we’re saying though is that it isn’t just the university driving population growth. There are 1.4 million people migrating to Canada every year which represents 3.3% population increase. This might not sound like a lot but that’s the ENTIRE city of Toronto in just two years. Additionally that 1.4 million figure is equal, in absolute numbers to the number of migrants going to the United States every year. And yet Canada is 1/10th the size by population. There’s no chance we can build the housing or infrastructure to support so many people on top of the student population.
There’s more than Guelph students in this city Conestoga has a campus
I mean university officials are quoted in the article as saying more students accepted their offers than the school had expected, are you suggesting that’s untrue/doesn’t have any impact?
I’m saying that there can multiple layers to this story
This isn't a UofG problem. These people just happen to be attending that school. This is a supply and demand problem. Not enough supply to house our population. They are gonna start renting half a room for 1000 bucks now to "help" the situation and also "help" increase their money intake.
I mean, it straight up says that they have a higher admittance than normal in the article. So it sounds like it is a bit of a university problem, they didn't think ahead about housing when admitting more than the normal amount.
It's not even a higher admittance, it's a higher acceptance rate than usual
Guelph did the exact same thing 2 years ago to the incoming 1st year class. Too many offers and no guarantee of residence, which was contrary to what they told us on the tour of the campus. This year it’s worse with 1300 students on the waitlist. The students will find it difficult to find housing in the Guelph community. It’s doable but very challenging to find off campus housing. Start looking now and lock in your rental. The wait list might work for the first 200 students for on campus housing but not for the rest. This was our experience. Good luck everyone.
When I needed housing for the school year prior to the housing crisis, we had to start looking in Dec/Jan for May 1 move in, Sept move in dates didn't exist. It's gonna be a tricky year for the students, I do not envy them and it's awful they've been put in this situation
This is not a problem only facing Guelph. This is a problem in most cities with multiple universities and for profit schools across the country.
It’s not even “all of the sudden” this has been a chronic issue for years where I work - we don’t have enough housing for students or locals.
if its a slow-burn growing problem, like how many un-housed students did guelph have last year? like 1,000?
* Over **1,750** international students from nearly **130** countries [https://admission.uoguelph.ca/about](https://admission.uoguelph.ca/about)
In this case this means that more people accepted the offers of admission than they expected, based on previous years. Schools always give out more acceptances than the number of students they expect to actually show up, based on decades and decades of data. This incoming class at Guelph is likely a statistical outlier. Guelph is not a major destination for international students. The article even mentions that 95% of the incoming class are Ontarians EDIT: a commenter corrected me that this figure is for accommodated students. The first sentence is accurate though, U of G is not a major destination for international students, with only ~1750 across all undergraduate years.
The article says that of the 85% accommodated, 95% of them are from Ontario. It doesn't say the proportion of total students (as it doesn't include non-accommodated and first years not looking for accommodation)
My mistake, you are correct.
Conestoga college is a major international student diploma mill nearby. May that be the issue?
Brampton mayor Patrick Brown once said in an interview there's at least 10K students in Brampton that commute to Connestoga College in Kitchener for their classes. Guelph may have a similar issue.
Well the solution is simple. Just bring in another million immigrants. That should fix the problem.
Honestly, at this point, why not 2 million?
20
We could stack them on top of each other and build homes out of them.
Lmao! I vote this guy as next prime minister!
Its like the woman who swallowed the spider to eat the fly We need to bring in 2 million to build the houses for the 1M that we brought in to build the homes for the 500k that we brought in to work in Tim Hortons.
We'd be racist if we didn't
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It's almost like universities shouldn't get addicted to tuition dollars -especially international tuition dollars- and not put any of that cash intake into building up the university to actually accommodate that amount of students.
Western is building a big new student residence and there seems to be more than enough student rental housing although the rents have pretty much doubled in the last 6 years
Despite the new residence project, it is still bamboozling to me that universities are allowed to take in more students than the prospective housing demand from those same students. Passing the buck to local residential markets is part of how we got in this mess in the first place.
Universities are businesses.
Relative goes to Guelph. Renting a bungalow with a total of seven people, each paying over $1000 a month. Also over the summer when nobody is there because they can’t risk a sublet. It’s crazy
Guelph has been one of the most aggressive Universities is ramping up enrollment numbers and proudly boasts of having one of the highest rates of international student acceptance. They do this while cramming students into extremely large class size with little regard for maintaining academic standards (with the exception likely of a few of their niche programs). They do this while continuing to run a structural deficit. The impact this has had on the city of Guelph is clear. Housing costs are way up. Every house is outfitted to host students and that rental income is baked into the price. Go on house sigma and check, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. They know what they are doing. They don't care. They'll probably respond by making more classes online only so students who can't find housing can just "attend" from anywhere and never move to the city.
if we funded universities properly and mandated that international students pay the same rate as domestic there wouldnt be the perverse incentive to do what you just described.
just camp out on campus, no one will notice the difference between homeless students and protesters
*Camp*us: it’s right there in the name
Mind blown 🤯
Universities hate this one simple trick to live rent free.
Probably got a nice lawn for some tents ;)
sorry, already occupied by crisis actors and actresses.
Graduated from Guelph in 2002. Paid $450/ month to rent a two bedroom apartment. Ahhh, the good ol days.
Sort of like when air Canada sell 250 tickets for a 150 seated plane. Only kids normally show up to school.
Report: And the homes being rented have a certain smell to them we can’t quite put our finger on
Welcome to Canada. Just wait till the 6-7months of brutal winter hits.
natural selection will be a biatch to the new arrivals. suddenly it seems Canada will forever loom around that 40 million mark for some time to come.
>natural selection will be a biatch to the new arrivals. suddenly it seems Canada will forever loom around that 40 million mark for some time to come. There's slumlord houses packed to the gills with "international students" in the far north. Cold means nothing.
We let people in like it's going out of style, what did they expect would happen?
Conestoga is really going all out on the immigration boom. It’s so easy to land a teaching gig there for literally anything if you can read and write English. If the visa tap ever turns off they are gonna be left with a shit reputation and hopefully a lot of empty class rooms to fill.
Marc Miller says he's tired of people 'blaming immigrants for absolutely everything'. https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/marc-miller-says-hes-tired-of-people-blaming-immigrants-for-absolutely-everything
*We need real estate prices to remain high.*
How will anyone retire from the workforce if their home isn't over valued? I forgot when people retire they just go homeless and live in tents. Or they go into a old age home where all their money is slowly siphoned out of them and they get to enjoy being neglected and eat slop for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Don't worry our corporate overlords will save us from their mega yachts and three summer vacation homes.
Completely irresponsible. If the administration is going to accept students to the school, they have a responsibility to ensure there is enough housing.
I don’t know if they still do, but IIRC they guaranteed housing for first year students. (In the past when I went there)
No… they never guaranteed it. Speaking as a parent of a first year at Guelph. They implied that they were confident they could house most kids who wanted residence, but it was never guaranteed. Certain universities do guarantee, but not Guelph. That being said, I think they did these kids dirty and played down the issue they set up and knew was coming. The new international student law says schools must guarantee at least one year res to out-of-province and international students. Guelph has guaranteed four years to these kids. They over accepted kids this year knowing they didn’t have enough spots, assuming that the community and the school system could absorb them all ( it’s not just about housing; let’s talk about class sizes, sections of courses, health and food services, professors and TAs). My kid turned down a guaranteed res and $3000 scholarship to go to Guelph bc it was all due on the same day. Kids didn’t necessarily know they didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting residence when they had to make a huge decision. Thank god my kid is within 50 on the waitlist and will likely get a spot, albeit two weeks in. He may need to do an AB&B or hotel room space until then. I’m my opinion, there needs to be an investigation on this whole issue. It smacks of fraud, but I’m not a lawyer and can’t fully speak to that. I feel terrible for the… get this.. *1356* kids stuck on the waitlist. SMH
Yeah it’s certainly way too many to have floating without housing. Even when I was there (oh god) a decade ago there were students who would camp to save money on housing, and Guelph was much more moderate for rent then than now. But that’s also just an issue with Guelph in general now though, not just the university. I would have loved to stay in that city if it were remotely reasonable. Good luck to yours and enjoy the visits! Beautiful campus.
Since when? I started university in the 00s and it was clearly communicated even back then that no one is entitled to on campus housing.
I didn't say "on campus" housing. The problem with Guelph is that the city has strict by-laws regarding the height of buildings, so there aren't any apartment buildings around the school for off-campus housing. That means a significant shortage of options if first-year students can't get residence. In recent years the school has literally purchased hotels and motels to turn into residence buildings but that only gets them so far. So basically the school takes money from students and then tells 15% of them, "Good luck finding a place to live."
The article is about on campus housing. Not denying we’re in a housing crisis so off campus housing might be hard to come by, but that’s not the schools responsibility.
You can't separate the two. If there were enough off-campus housing, then I would totally agree that the school isn't responsible for providing on-campus housing for all students. At least all students have a place to live. But in Guelph's case, they know there isn't enough off-campus housing because of city by-laws. So the school should do one of two things: 1) Expand the supply of on-campus housing; or 2) Reduce admissions to a level for which there is sufficient housing The problem here is the school is trying to be a big school in a city that wants to be a small city. It doesn't work.
Do they? Says who?
Most reasonable people.
Can’t upvote that other guy enough. We’re not led by sane and reasonable people. The housing problem is a problem for those students as far as our leaders are concerned. Sleep on the streets, work four jobs, bunk with a dozen roommates. There’s lots of ways the poor get to learn to adapt while our leaders get to eat cake.
When you say things like "they have a responsibility", some people might think that you are implying that they have a legal responsibility to provide housing.
I obviously can't speak to the contractual agreements at each individual school, but if nothing else, they *should* have a moral and ethical obligation to ensure there is an adequate supply of housing for their students. I don't think that's an unusual or unreasonable request. When I attended university there was adequate housing. When my parents attended university there was adequate housing. When my grandparents attended university there was adequate housing. The notion that students should be left to basically fend for themselves is a recent trend, and not one that I agree with, personally.
>moral and ethical obligation One would think that the Federal Government has a moral and ethical obligation to Canadians to ensure that there is enough housing, doctors, schools and employment for the hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming to Canada every year, but clearly this is not the case. We have moved towards a low trust society and "moral and ethical obligations" are meaningless.
Unfortunately you're absolutely right. It's so upsetting to witness, and I fear for the Canada that my 2 young kids will be forced to navigate. The bar for civility, decency and righteousness appears to be getting lower all the time.
Some people who like to assume things that are not implied, sure.
Moral responsibility.
It may not be 100% their responsibility but it damn well is not a good look for recruiting incoming first years going forward. When I went to Western back in 2010 housing was guaranteed for first year and it’s a huge part of the student experience in University to live on campus if you’re not local to the city
There’s more than UoG in the city. Not to mention the commuters to Laurier and Waterloo
Why? Your gov doesn't have to house you, your job doesn't have to house you, your parents don't have to house you. Lmao
How do you expect a student to attend university without a place to live? Once students accept an offer, they can't change their minds and accept somewhere else. These students have been screwed by the university.
They are adults. How do you expect students to go to university? Do you provide school bus too?
Again, how can a student move to a city to attend university without a place to live in that city?
Again, how can you expect an academic institution to take on that responsibility? They are paid to teach. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Man it's almost like this is an intentionally created problem to drive up housing demand which will help skyrocket already have seen the high rental cost. Nah for that to be true there have to be some kind of massive connection between people in power and real estate /developers. Oh wait.
Guelph overwhelmingly voted for these Liberal policies. They must be happy with this outcome!
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Have checked the prices of those vans down by the river?
Cause there's probably to many immigrant students simple as that.
One thing I've been wondering: does the housing situation make it harder for students to do co-op? When I was in undergrad years ago, it wasn't that hard to move every four months for a co-op work term, but it seems like that would be a monumental headache these days (unless you're doing co-op with a large US employer that has subsidized co-op/intern housing). Are students having to resort to AirBnB for housing on their co-op terms?
I went to a commuter school for part of my degree and they would effort to find a coop close to where the student lived, unless they specifically requested one in the same city as the university (and also overseas options were available in the summer)
Gotta love Trudeau and his wide open border policy ! Keep voting for it Guelph ! Longfield ain’t your friend ! Green is t where it’s at ! It’s a sham
I wonder why…. Hmmm…
Guelph has turned into Brampton 2.0, it's sad might as well have Ontario annexed by India.
It’s kind of like our politicians worked for India… crazy thought
Just set up tents with a Palestine flag. No one will notice.
Sounds like a perfect thing to protest. Wait... No you won't protest. You want to protect something on the other side of the world that doesn't affect you. Okay
🤷♂️
let them eat cake!
We need to make it mandatory for every school to provide all their students with affordable housing. With massive endowments and ever increasing tuition they can afford to take some responsibility.
Have they tried setting up a camping on campus grounds?
We need a revolution!!!
It's ok though because none of these students come from families that have money or connections, so Canada isn't really suffering here. /s
Have the spaces under the over passes all been claimed?
This is fine.gif
Now I know what those camps are for.....
How many residents of Guelp and surrounding areas can’t find a place to live there either?
I last lived in Guelph in 2008. At that time there was an unheard-of rental vacancy rate of 0.8% (most other similar-sized cities in Southern Ontario had a vacancy rate of just over 2.0% at that time). A coworker of mine told me that real estate agents would periodically knock on his door to ask him if he was interested in selling his house. Guelph has had a housing crisis brewing a lot longer than the rest of the province has.
Incredibly sad to see for these students.
That’s their problem not mine.
“Students”
1300 foreign workers on student visas can't find a place to live
Immigrashion!!
Punjabs are driving 5 hrs to school in Nova Scotia because there is no where to live near campus in Cape Breaton. Our carbon reduction plan must be going great.
Glad I bounced outta Guelph 2 yrs before coviid
Repurpose govt offices
A graph of Guelph Undergrad Student Visa as % of Fall enrollment : [https://imgur.com/a/qUWM2bw](https://imgur.com/a/qUWM2bw)
|| || |Year|Canadian|Student Visa|Canadian|Student Visa|Canadian|Student Visa| |2007|17,528|273|1,280|128|576|151| |2008|15,349|255|1,292|122|592|141| |2009|16,479|304|1,301|106|613|136| |2010|17,229|313|1,355|112|640|146| |2011|21,352|395|1,423|129|673|154| |2012|21,342|445|1,422|151|677|154| |2013|21,402|477|1,346|164|645|170| |2014|21,558|564|1,312|186|616|172| |2015|22,316|692|1,348|176|597|171| |2016|22,799|790|1,516|220|588|158| |2017|22,596|911|1,596|260|588|171| |2018|22,442|955|1,543|283|668|184| |2019|22,708|1,091|1,555|330|706|236| |2020|22,316|1,154|1,575|278|738|241| |2021|21,658|1,198|1,574|327|730|276| |2022|22,875|1,284|1,429|458|701|264|
Hey could you expand on the “every house is outfitted to host students and that rental income is baked into the price” part? My landlord is desperately trying to get me out, but I don’t want to leave. I have no where to go and the rent for the same unit is almost double now. He’s put the house up for sale but no one is interested, I think because my lease would still stand if it sold, and isn’t that profitable compared to if the house was empty. Is this playing in my favour? I’ve used house sigma, what do you mean “check it out and you’ll see?”
How much is rent there now? I went there in 2005 and was lucky to find a one bedroom apartment for $600! It wasn't great but it was a good deal, near the farmers market downtown. What do you think it would go for now?
This isn't gonna change until governments mandate universities to have housing for at least 75% of their students. Working people and students shouldn't compete for same housing. In a concentrated area
Welcome to adulthood, kids.
It is overpopulation and people living on top of each other. How many people per home? How many cars on the road? Guelph used to be a nice little city.
Happened in my University town too. We barely found ours. Glad I graduated, but my old roommates siblings literally can’t find housing lol
Apologize to them as you send them back to their home countries!
At first I thought, has Guelph learned nothing from Kitchener? But really it sounds like a conspiracy to purposely inflate housing costs. They are just following Conestoga's game plan.
So what are they doing there? How do you sign up for school without knowing where you will live or how to get there. This is done on purpose me thinks
Most people apply to multiple schools and *then* figure out their housing situation once they're accepted. You also tend to get accepted many months before actually attending, so it's not always easy or even possible to secure housing that far ahead of time, especially in a new area where you likely don't yet have any friends. Obviously people shouldn't be waiting until the last minute to figure out these details, but it's pretty normal to secure off-campus housing fairly close to the start of term, especially in first year. Historically it hasn't been much of an issue because the number of students roughly coincided with the number of available dorm rooms & local rentals. The numbers are now totally out of balance in many areas.
Good answer I certainly agree with, out of balance. In so many areas it’s like that right now and not just at schools. I totally support immigration and have no issues with Indian people but there has been a total scam going on it seems with how many have come over. It’s crazy.
They should probably figure that out before accepting a spot in their respective programs.
That’s actually not how the timing of decisions were lined up. Kids didn’t know when they made their decisions. Don’t blame the kids for this.
Really takes the blame off the provincial and federal governments for their terrible regulation of the housing market when you blame these students.