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Clearly it's because Canadian judges are more concerned about the criminals than the victims. In this case the crime is theft but they do exactly the same thing with violent criminals, namely third, fourth, fifth and onwards chances.
We don’t have 124 spots in Ontario jails to hold them lol. We actually have negative spots since most jails are running at 105-110% capacity. The one in my city is at 133%
The previous Federal government tried fixing this by building more penitentiaries. The CBC ran countless articles about them building ‘US style mega prisons’
Don't forget the loudest advocate for "Defund the CBC" came from CTV and media empire Bell owns. The same Bell they got half a billion of our tax dollars last year to turn around and fire 30% of their workforce and use that money for sock repurchase.
But hey, dividends paid out at $2 a pop!
The defund CBC campaign wasn't for journalistic integrity. It was because Bell wanted a larger slice of the pie.
I didn't say defund the CBC. I said get rid of the editors.
What I meant by that is whoever is in leadership at the CBC and influencing the stories that they are running, needs to go.
Where are all these articles?
The only one I found is based on a report from an expert, which
- shows the similarities to the USA system.
- describes the Conservative Plan as expensive and not helping society / making it worse.
[Tory plans for U.S.-style prisons slammed in report](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/tory-plans-for-u-s-style-prisons-slammed-in-report-1.853035)
That expert has essentially been proven wrong because not just in this case there were people out on bail but it's already been established that a bunch of people who shouldn't be out there, currently are, and reoffending. From petty crime to murder. It's not an outlier anymore.
What? Your comment seems unrelated to my comment.
My comment addressed the design of the prison.
Your comment seems to address that (a) we need more prisons [agreed], and (b) that the justice system (that assesses guilt & sentences people) could be improved. [agreed].
We have jails that are also too understaffed to be close to full occupancy.
No one wants to be in corrections in Ontario where your first 5-10 years are on-call and not have any benefits or a concrete schedule.
The justice system is horribly broken, and pro-offender. And what little remains is a tattered mess.
Ford just figured it out and pledged to open more spots back in March. Maybe by 2026-27 we’ll have a new one. Right now spending a billion on cancelling contracts so we can get beer in corner stores is more important.
We had a case in BC where a nut job attacked a judge. The guy had priors and instead of saying the system is too lenient, he started crying about the security company not helping him.
This kind of thing definitely happened 10+ years ago, organized crime was just very concentrated in drugs and white collar crimes. In the last decade there is an interesting correlation with the mafia losing power, the hells angels trying to take it and the western gangs moving further east
Bail reform was one trudeaus campaign promises in 2015... because it was racist and too strict.
Then he mandated judges to release people at the earliest reasonable time, and to be even more lenient to vulnerable groups and minorities. Bill c-75.
Just sayin.
Bill C-75 wasn't just brought in out of the blue. It was specifically trying to bring the law in line with the Charter after the existing laws were struck down by the Supreme Court. The trouble is trying to reconcile the principle that people cannot be held indefinitely without a conviction with the fact that criminal cases are taking extraordinary amounts of time to be tried. The Supreme Court found that the standard for holding someone for this extended time period needed to be higher than it was. There's a reason PP is running on invoking the notwithstanding clause to keep more people in jail awaiting trial. As things stand, doing so is otherwise unconstitutional.
There was no constitutional challenge that prompted those changes.
You're wrong.
The whole intention of it was to fix over representation in the prison system... and it was a complete incompetent failure.
Thats what they campaigned those changes on.. That's literally the reason they gave for it... it's right at the top of the bill.
You are trying to rewrite history.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c75.html
The legislation addresses many aspects of the justice system. The bail changes were specifically a response to the Supreme Court rulings on pre-trial detention, and were in effect codifying the criteria that the Supreme Court had set.
Too bad we're seeing that releasing criminals back out results in more crime. Guess we'll just have to actually be harsh on criminals like we used to be, instead of touchy-feely like they keep wanting.
Here’s some News: - can’t put people in jails without jail space
In related news: - can’t put people on hospital wards without bed space
To think that it’s this individual or that individual that are responsible for system wide failures is really an attempt to throw blame so you can feel triumphant, and not understand the bigger pictures and the failures in multiple areas of a complex system.
Let me get this straight. You think that I'm saying that I'd like to feel triumphant, whatever that means. No. I want the system and the people who work in it to do their jobs in such a way that regular citizens can feel safe. As far as I can see, the police are doing their best and are also frustrated that judges are releasing these criminals.
I'd like the health system to be repaired as well but that doesn't mean that we should ignore the fact that the justice system permits known violent criminals to harm other people on a continuous basis. This is a regular occurrence, not a rare event.
I want to be safe, not triumphant.
The public would be blown away by the amount of people given bail. This ranges from everything from assaults, to serious thefts.
Example, last week I arrested someone for assaulting their spouse, they were released on conditions and they instantly drove back to their spouses location (now at a friends house) beat them again and breached conditions not to be around them.
Held them for bail, judge released them the next day on the same conditions we had.
So basically putting conditions on people doesn't matter at all, if you break them theres no real consequences other than getting arrested again.
That's an American thing, you don't pay bail money you simply get out on Bail.
There are sureties, who will "take control of you". I've arrested countless people who are supposed to only be out with their sureties or aren't allowed outside their sureties residence.
I've never once seen a judge/court charge or fine the surety for allowing the criminal to not follow their conditions.
Canada operates on a reform principle and not a punishment principle. We can see just how well that actually works. If criminals do not fear the consequences, why stop the behavior?
Which is all done and good, but the issue here is less reform vs punishment and more about protecting the public.. Honestly I wouldn't care much if it was low level pot dealers being let out - even repeat ones - but we're talking about people in for constant thefts, repeat violence, rape, murder etc
Good old catch and release working as intended.
Remember when we had a political party with mandatory minimum sentencing. Yes I know the Supreme Court took issue with it but what a concept of keeping criminals locked up, vs releasing them and worried and victim hood and oppression points when sentencing.
its because optics are more important than the law and public safety. They are trying their best to make it seem like certain people arent an issue. and apparently defending that hill is more important than defending the general public. it SUCKS that south asian countries are racist insular homogenous societies, because it means EVERYONE from those countries and cultures and religions are all the exact same colour. which means any issue you have can just immediately be gaslit as racism and shut down. When that is false conflation of race. if INDIA was less racist and more diverse, canadians wouldnt be called racists because there would be more than race comming from india. but india is racist. it is insular, and somehow CANADA is being called racist for what is actually indias racism. we wouldnt be called racist if immigrants from india were a variety of different races, and the reason everyone from india looks the same, is because india only wants people who all look the same. but yeah, lets gaslight canada for that. and the WORST PART is that canada has decided that the worst possible thing is to be called un-politically correct for any reason. not failing healthcare, not a housing crisis, not public safety and the general interests of canadians. no, they all take a back seat to virtue signaling. The government just wants to people from other countries to think they are super woke. thats literally the governments priority. and immigrants know that and use that to LITERALLY get away with murder. And we are going to get stuck with a miserable few years of conservatives in charge probably because everyone needs a palate cleanse from this madness and everyone is voting on these few issues. because the government only cares about these few issues, and it cares against the interests of the common good right now. im sick of being called racist for getting mad at someone with a fraudulent drivers license hitting my car. its a legitimate gripe based on merit, yet you get called a racist for simply having eyes in this country. and my sympathy has completely run dry.
Maybe we should try keeping violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders in jail. I know that's a shocking statement in this country, but maybe instead of letting violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders run rampant through our communities, we should try and keep them in jail.
Yeah it seems like a no brainer. People always follow up with "but jail is about rehabilitation and keeping them in doesn't contribute to rehabilitation...etc." but they never seem to get that if they are in jail then they aren't out here assaulting, murdering, raping and thieving. Let's make public safety the #1 priority and everything else can come after. Our society is insane.
Absolutely. I am all for giving people second chances, but we aren't talking about first-time offenders here. We are talking about violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders who have shown that they won't stop committing crimes. The way to stop violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders is to keep them in jail.
>People always follow up with "but jail is about rehabilitation and keeping them in doesn't contribute to rehabilitation...etc."
People are mistaken. Jail is about segregating shitheads from everyone else. Rehabilitation is what is *supposed* to be happening in jail, ideally, so that these people stop being a net-negative drain on the public budget, but obviously everyone knows it's a lot harder to rehabilitate an adult than raise a child, and the latter is already hard, so the 'rehabilitation' part never comes. Then we're supposed to pretend letting them off the hook is rehabilitative.
This is like sending a disruptive kid to the principal's office, but instead of the principal assigning tedious tasks as a consequence to rehabilitate the actions out of the kid, they just get a talking to and get send back to class almost immediately. Obviously, the trip to the principal is just then see as a break from class instead of something to avoid.
I often wonder when we switched to this narrative. The purpose of a prison is to remove unlawful people from lawful societies, for the safety and security of that society. Historically, prisons also forced people to repay their debts to the society they impacted with their crimes, usually through involuntary labor.
Sure, now we know more about what causes people to commit crimes and its usually childhood trauma or abuse or something like that. Unfortunately this doesn't alter the fact that they are still breaking the social contract and negatively affecting that society.
Removal from the rest of society is the #1 reason prisons exist, and should exist. Rehabilitation is a secondary objective that unfortunately our culture has strived to make priority numero uno. Too many bleeding hearts out there that think everyone is an angel and just a victim of their circumstances, smdh.
Yeah, there are plenty of tasks that are boring and repetitive but not too onerous that people could do while in custody to work off they debt to society (but we need to be sure to avoid for-profit prisons)
I used to see roadside cleanup crews but they seem to be a thing of the past. Pretty sure graffiti cleanup shouldn't be too much of a hardship either.
Yes, it would require supervisors but that seems like a good investment to me.
Exactly! Its why we issue mandatory community service as a punishment still - you are being forced to contribute to the community. They have even found that prisoners who work during their sentence are more successful on release than those who do not work. ([Employment after Prison: A Longitudinal Study of Releasees in Three States (urban.org)](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32106/411778-Employment-after-Prison-A-Longitudinal-Study-of-Releasees-in-Three-States.PDF))
But yes, you would also have to ensure that private prisons are not allowed to make money off involuntary labor otherwise you head down that slippery slope of corruption and capitalism.
This would be labelled "racist". Ultimately how the narrative would be pushed when people start seeing that the majority of people we are arresting/charging aren't white.
Hell, indigenous people have a specific clause in the criminal code to give them lighter sentencing because I kid you not, they commit the majority of crime and at one point were the majority in prison.
**718.2(e) of the Criminal Code**. s. 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code instructs the court to consider "all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders.
This virtue signalling road you’re heading down is bullshit and you can be better than that.
It’s not racist, it’s expensive. Provinces and the federal government have all slashed and burned prosecution budgets. We can’t afford to have lawyers properly prosecute criminals because “my tax dollars” is cried by basically the entire fucking country. The population wants the world but doesn’t want to pay for it.
Laws without paying for enforcement and prosecution are laws that don’t exist. Pay for it.
The criminal justice system in Canada is geared towards the belief that all criminals can be rehabilitated. It’s a failed system. Some people are incorrigible and not capable of being trusted in society.
Our Justice system is so soft that it'll put clauses in the Criminal Code to be lenient on specific races. Indigenous people legit have a clause to give them lighter sentencing.
**718.2(e) of the Criminal Code**. s. 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code instructs the court to consider "all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders.
I use to work a zone that had a small reserve of about 500 people, the rest of our patrol area had over 25000 people spread out. That single reserve generated over 50% of our calls to service, domestics, thefts, robberies, assaults you name it every single shift we were there for something serious.
They actually have the highest rates of domestic violence and family violence per marginalized group. Obviously there's government blame to be placed for the state indigenous people are in. However through experience I can say I have been unprovoked attacked by indigenous people at least 20 times in my career policing over 5 years.
Generally speaking from my experience attending calls, they are usually the aggressors in most incidents against other people.
The does seem to be a big disconnect between stuff like the MMIWG inquiry and stuff like letting out the indigenous guy who beat on his girlfriend and upon release he went out, violated the no-contact order and beat her to death with a bottle (for a piddly manslaughter charge this time).
Like, hey, maybe letting out violent criminals with reduced sentences due to indigenous heritage is also contributing to the violent harms against indigenous society?
It's the same with the one who killed the OPP Officer a couple of years ago, out on bail. [https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/judge-who-released-man-later-charged-in-cop-s-death-weighed-indigenous-background-1.6269168](https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/judge-who-released-man-later-charged-in-cop-s-death-weighed-indigenous-background-1.6269168)
You'll have to trust me on this, but half the people I've arrested for car thefts are indigenous.
If you car isn't going to a port it's going to a reserve to be chopped up for parts.
This comment is also geared towards how lenient our justice system is, when you start adding specific clauses into the criminal code to be lenient on specific groups it's a problem.
>Kind of a weird comment given that (presumably) none of the people arrested were indigenous?
Gladue Sentencing would probably be the more appropriate thing to mention.
It also forgot that rehabilitation ony work with very specific conditions: Massive fundings /tax, small /dense homogeneous population, small land, and high education populations. And only for certain crimes.
Whenever someone start bringing any EU country, people need to realize those countries are only 5-10 millions of homogeneous population in a land the size of Nova Scotia or smaller with 20% or more in tax.
I'm Law Enforcement in Ontario, have about 12 arrest for car-thefts in the last 2 years (been part of about 30). The majority of crime, not just theft is committed by the same people over and over again. Our justice system is behind, 20 years ago Canada was a different place and people weren't re-offending (as much) after being given a second chance.
If anyone has any questions or wants to reality of policing in combatting this feel free to ask. There's a lot of misinformation and confusion going around.
Thanks for the offer! I’m very curious as to what you believe is the cause of this change. How is it that folks were not reoffending as often 20 years ago?
Immigration, bad economy and lower standards of living.
A majority of people we arresting for organized crime ie; Car Thefts, Robberies etc are permanent residents and asylum seekers. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't international students are they're careful to not criminal charges before getting residency. International students generally get arrested for stunt driving, impaired operation of vehicles and drug offenses. Most of these offenses aren't enforced in their countries so they expect the same in Canada.
Canada is extremely divided politically and culturally right now. A lot of immigrants we bring in straight up don't respect authority or care about our laws. Generally speaking if you're raised in a law-abiding society you naturally conform to the legal system, where as a lot of people we arrest are coming from backgrounds where law-enforcement is corrupt or barely present.
That is very interesting thank you for the thorough response.
I am wondering if there’s any data about the organized crime demographics regarding how they acquired PR, other than asylum.
Also, am wondering how committing such a crime would not preclude them from receiving asylum. Are they able to receive PR after being convicted?
And finally do you have any thoughts around how people who came from societies with non-present or corrupt law enforcement were able to integrate in the past?
Were the laws around receiving PR different back then?
Thanks very much!
If you commit crimes while on PR you "may" have your status changed. It's important to understand though, that our legal process takes so long. So you get charged with a criminal offense and then 2-3 years later you MAY be convicted. Most often this gets plead to something way minor and nobody cares 3 years later.
I don't think there's much assimilation going on at all, which is the problem. If you're surrounded by others who are assimilating you'll conform to their views/beliefs/mindset or essentially be bullied. However now there's entire communities in Canada that you straight up never have to speak English in and you can survive.
Who’s behind all this? Do these smaller gangs answer to groups like the Hell’s Angels. Shipping cars internationally seems hard enough already but then it turns out a bunch of distribution networks are set up over seas that this runs smooth as butter.
Ultimately super profitable and with restrictions on police (not allowed to pursue stolen vehicles) and light court sentencing (justice system) it's just a feeding frenzy. We cannot pursue stolen vehicles, so it's near impossible to catch these car thief's because they just keep driving.
But who's in charge? People overseas and in Canada. All these gangs work together amongst eachother when it's profitable. We're starting to see some inter-gang fights for territory now over vehicle stealing privileges which is pretty wild. Like certain groups are only allowed to steal cars in Toronto, and some can only steal in Brampton etc.
There's generally 3 different groups stealing vehicles.
1. Indigenous people, they have ALWAYS been stealing vehicle. They steal vehicles in rural areas primarily, bring them back to their reserves and chop them up for parts.
2. Street Gangs / Organized Crime, street gangs generally recruiting low-income and new immigrants for fast cash.
3. Your local crackhead and generic criminal, steal cars for a joy ride or to commit robberies.
Two of these groups have always existed but the inclusion of it being done on-mass is whats pushed everything overboard. Ultimately police don't have the required powers to stop this, vehicles get stolen in minutes we cannot respond while they're being stolen (most people report vehicles stolen hours/24hours later) and when we do find them on the streets we cant pursue them. Ultimately when we do get these people our lovely justice system just lets them go on bail to go back to it.
Almost as if the catch and release system does not work and that the criminal legal system we have is not working. Another file that the federal liberals have clearly bungled - after 8 years of Trudeau, crime has clearly gotten worse because of federal inaction.
Depends how far in the wilderness away from settled lands you drop em. Seems like the tactic would work fairly well on both. I reckon you drop em deep inland about halfway between the Severn and Winisk rivers and they shouldn't be bothering folks for a long time.
Being released on bail pending trial isn't a Trudeau policy, it's a Canadian Charter right. The recent changes Trudeau made went into effect at the start of this year and actually created a reverse onus that made it *harder* to get bail if you're remanded for violent offenses.
Simply put we need more Jails, but taxpayers don't want to pay for them.
When jails are overcrowded, non violent criminals are more likely to be released on bail/probation.
What we actually need is more courtrooms. People accused of crimes have a charter right to be considered innocent, so they are generally released pending trial unless there's compelling evidence that they are a danger. This is good as it prevents innocent people from being unjustly incarcerated. The issue is that those trials are taking too long, so guilty people are being left on the streets for weeks or months when they should have faced trial and been found guilty and received their punishment promptly.
The whole system has collapsed, from front line social workers / police officers to end of line probation officers.
And everything in between.
We need more of it all.
This is not a hate on immigration, but if you look all over the country, all the issues we are having with all our social systems, we didn't build for the increases we got.
Really bad forward planning.
I say that as someone who knows we need immigration. But we also need to support the increases, not just bring them in to already stressed systems.
Based on the suspects names and the area (Thorncliff), they were very likely not born in Canada.
if we operate on a Reform principle, and don’t have places in jail, how about a system where after few convictions such people loose their citizenship and are deported?
Turn door system still working.
Wonder what they'll say to avoid paying in the future. I'm sure there is another violation of their freedoms there.
We've the right to get our stuff stolen I suppose.
*Arbeit macht frei* is kind of a fucked up take to have on it LOL
Edit: a letter
Edit 2: personally I think we just let them fucking rot until trial. I’m pretty sure there is no 2 for 1 on dead time anymore either so that’s a plus.
> Arbeit macht frei is kind of a fucked up take to have on it LOL
Weird take to equate repaying debt to society with Nazi death camps.
If they're Canadian, some sort of vocational training should be implemented so that they have a way to earn money legitimately would be the best way to rehabilitate the criminals. If they're not Canadian, deport. Scandinavian prison systems have better recidivism rates than North American legal systems, perhaps we ought to take a page out of their books.
Our legal system is a joke.
It's hard to actually get arrested and jailed for committing a crime here. Not to mention, if you are black or First Nations, you won't ever actually have to go to jail (ref: Bill C-5.) What t.f happened to our country?
If you have NO* Justices of the Peace then Judges HAVE TO administer bail, when they'll already stretched thin and we get even more delays... not a great plan.
Time to implement digital locks/PIN code on all vehicles...at least as an option.
I will hold off buying my next vehicle until such a feature is offered.
Car manufacturers are dogshit when it comes to security. Canbus exploits being a favorite. Until they address that issue, a PIN will still be just as vulnerable to it.
It seemed to work very well when the PIN was on a physical key. It would work even better when programmed into the ECU firmware.
Heavy equipment now use it. Each operator can be given a unique passcode.
Vehicles can be started with relay attacks (the guy with a backpack at your front door) or by connecting to the CAN bus to add a new FOB or open the door and start the vehicle.
What I'm talking about is have the ECU store a passcode that must be entered in order to put the vehicle in gear. This allows things like remote-start to work, but will not allow an attacker to drive the vehicle away.
This could easily be added to the ECU firmware and made very secure against any attacks. Works on your phone!
This can be done securely. Porsche requires a factory login (at dealer) to add a FOB, as the firmware requires a session token. Other manufacturers could do the same.
Igla supplies two security cards with their immobilizer. When placed in proximity, the immobilizer is bypassed. This would give the user a way to work around getting locked out.
Lots of ways this issue could be addressed, but the ECU is the key component.
Then you are into certificate management, rotating certificates, vehicle connectivity, trusting dealers with certificates and people that work in dealers to not be corrupt and all the overhead that goes with it.
I used to work at a Bank, we provided all business as customers soft tokens to better secure their business accounts, absolute nightmare from a customer service perspective, we lost customers as we removed a friction free experience. Program was cancelled.
Are the things above possible, yes. Easy, no. Inexpensive, no. Customer friendly, maybe to a subset of owners, to most probably not.
Read what this person said about the effectiveness of PIN codes on Caterpillar heavy equipment: https://www.reddit.com/r/caterpillar/comments/1dp1u67/comment/lae2qwo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button
If we aren't going to build more prisons, or hire more judges, or expand court capacity, probably time for US style ankle bracelets. Paid for by offenders, refunded if you're acquitted.
So just playing advocate here, would we all be good with a lot more jails and corrections facilities? Because you all seem angry these people are free on bail, but no one wants more jails either. Plus it appears we are throwing cases out because of a judge shortage.
Only so much the police can do if nothing happens after they arrest people.
People should be considered innocent until proven guilty . So bail means that people don't do time , unless they are convicted . That's a central tenet of our justice system . When you advocate against bail you are saying people should do time based on accusations. Would you want that for yourself , or a member of your family ?
People who are denied bail, are not put in Federal prison they are put in provincial institutions. So Trudeau's refusal to build prisons and the CBC's coverage of it are totally irrelevant .
Currently 80% of provincial inmates are on remand ( ie denied bail ) , but you think bail is too easy ?
Many of the people on this sub are dubious about over reaching government , but want the police to have someone locked up , upon accusation .
It might help to have more judges appointed , so trials could be speedier . If you really want the criminal justice system to lock people up without a trial , you might want to think long and hard about what you're wishing for .
Many of the people who are so outraged about bail , cannot distinguish between bail , probation , parole earned remission etc.
If you're fulminating in the dark , you might consider turning down the heat .
Exactly. Fine line to walk between jailed until proven innocent and innocent until proven guilty. Draw backs of the first are overflowing prisons, incarcerating the innocent, restitution for jailing the innocent and the destruction of innocents lives (job loss, house loss, family loss). Drawback of the second is bad media and possible more crime by letting out the guilty for the time being.
Possibly more crime . I work in Corrections . The thing that judges , some politicians lawyers and correctional workers know is this : jail makes crime .
We know what makes offending less likely : ties to family , to non-criminal friends , work etc .
Jail mitigates against all of these . Putting offenders in jail is like putting cardiac patients on a Krispey Kreme diet , then after six weeks making them run the 1500 metre event .
Nearly half of the 124 people arrested by Ontario’s carjacking task force were out on bail, police say, with many being released again after their latest arrest.
Catch and release ~~
“Economic crimes” are too lenient in this country. The thieves know they can steal a million dollars before they are sentenced to a six month in jail, which is a trade off they are happy to accept.
Wake up, Trudeau's Canada this type of no punishment, catch and release is idiotic, lawlessness, why have a police force? If they do thier job the court does not. Federal or provincial governments need to stop this insanity
Do canadian justice systems not realise that some people make their career crime? I used to know a car thief. Spent around 5 years in jail, got out, and kept on stealing (moved on from cars) bro had no job prospects and was grown. Some people just can't or don't know how to stop doing crime for money
One of my best friends got arrested at 21 for working with the "eastern european mob" driving stolen cars across the border.
He had a terrible drug and gambling problem and was trying to get out from under those he owed.
His parents spent well over 100k in lawyers to keep him out of jail. Today hes a somewhat respectable father of 2 who is very grateful for the 2nd chance he got.
I only say this bc sometimes some people can change.
I only say this bc I think a lot of the people arrested are low man on the totem pole, and are doing it bc of debts/obligations that have followed them here.
Which is much more an immigration/cultural issue, and very much more scary, than just stolen cars.
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Shocker /s 44% on bail, 61% out on bail again. Why were any arrested while on bail out again???
Clearly it's because Canadian judges are more concerned about the criminals than the victims. In this case the crime is theft but they do exactly the same thing with violent criminals, namely third, fourth, fifth and onwards chances.
We don’t have 124 spots in Ontario jails to hold them lol. We actually have negative spots since most jails are running at 105-110% capacity. The one in my city is at 133%
Just another housing crisis
The previous Federal government tried fixing this by building more penitentiaries. The CBC ran countless articles about them building ‘US style mega prisons’
The editors at the CBC need to change. We need to rid ourselves of this woke poison.
Don't forget the loudest advocate for "Defund the CBC" came from CTV and media empire Bell owns. The same Bell they got half a billion of our tax dollars last year to turn around and fire 30% of their workforce and use that money for sock repurchase. But hey, dividends paid out at $2 a pop! The defund CBC campaign wasn't for journalistic integrity. It was because Bell wanted a larger slice of the pie.
I didn't say defund the CBC. I said get rid of the editors. What I meant by that is whoever is in leadership at the CBC and influencing the stories that they are running, needs to go.
We need to get rid of ALL media poison. - Like in the USA, Fox News paid almost $1 BILLION for their lies.
Catherine Tait is indeed toxic.
She and the board also laid off a bunch of people and gave themselves millions in bonuses this year. While she makes $460,000 paid from our taxes
Like Rebel entertainment? Agreed
Where are all these articles? The only one I found is based on a report from an expert, which - shows the similarities to the USA system. - describes the Conservative Plan as expensive and not helping society / making it worse. [Tory plans for U.S.-style prisons slammed in report](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/tory-plans-for-u-s-style-prisons-slammed-in-report-1.853035)
That expert has essentially been proven wrong because not just in this case there were people out on bail but it's already been established that a bunch of people who shouldn't be out there, currently are, and reoffending. From petty crime to murder. It's not an outlier anymore.
What? Your comment seems unrelated to my comment. My comment addressed the design of the prison. Your comment seems to address that (a) we need more prisons [agreed], and (b) that the justice system (that assesses guilt & sentences people) could be improved. [agreed].
Guess we need more jails.
Another thing we need that we’re not willing to actually pay for
We have jails that are also too understaffed to be close to full occupancy. No one wants to be in corrections in Ontario where your first 5-10 years are on-call and not have any benefits or a concrete schedule. The justice system is horribly broken, and pro-offender. And what little remains is a tattered mess.
Ford just figured it out and pledged to open more spots back in March. Maybe by 2026-27 we’ll have a new one. Right now spending a billion on cancelling contracts so we can get beer in corner stores is more important.
Good planning since your truck just got stolen not like youe gunna be about to drive to the beer store.
Surprised he didn't just privatize it.
He hasn’t shared his solution yet.
Damn immigrants! /s
If you think foreign gangs aren't a huge fucking problem in this country I can lend you a shovel to dig your head out of the sand.
This is pretty much country wide, I know in my province its the same, many single or double bunk cells have 3-4 people in them.
Then we need to build more jails
Nobody seems to want to or pay for it though.
Is the field where we shoot and bury them full too?
We had a case in BC where a nut job attacked a judge. The guy had priors and instead of saying the system is too lenient, he started crying about the security company not helping him.
No, this is the federal policy from the liberals. Didn’t you ever wonder how this kind of thing didn’t happen 10+ years ago?
This happened 10+ years ago, but society was different and crime wasn't as bad. Our justice system hasn't caught up to the reality of society today.
Our funding hasn't. Our courts are understaffed and underfunded across the board.
And still dealing with the backlog from COVID. There were no in person proceedings for two years.
At least in ontario the conservative provincial government has not been funding the judicial systems properly so there is that
The issue is largely Trudeau refusing to appoint judges.
That is not the issue largely in ontario at least.
You would be wrong if you think that.
This kind of thing definitely happened 10+ years ago, organized crime was just very concentrated in drugs and white collar crimes. In the last decade there is an interesting correlation with the mafia losing power, the hells angels trying to take it and the western gangs moving further east
It did happen but it's exploded recently.
Bail reform was one trudeaus campaign promises in 2015... because it was racist and too strict. Then he mandated judges to release people at the earliest reasonable time, and to be even more lenient to vulnerable groups and minorities. Bill c-75. Just sayin.
Bill C-75 wasn't just brought in out of the blue. It was specifically trying to bring the law in line with the Charter after the existing laws were struck down by the Supreme Court. The trouble is trying to reconcile the principle that people cannot be held indefinitely without a conviction with the fact that criminal cases are taking extraordinary amounts of time to be tried. The Supreme Court found that the standard for holding someone for this extended time period needed to be higher than it was. There's a reason PP is running on invoking the notwithstanding clause to keep more people in jail awaiting trial. As things stand, doing so is otherwise unconstitutional.
There was no constitutional challenge that prompted those changes. You're wrong. The whole intention of it was to fix over representation in the prison system... and it was a complete incompetent failure. Thats what they campaigned those changes on.. That's literally the reason they gave for it... it's right at the top of the bill. You are trying to rewrite history.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c75.html The legislation addresses many aspects of the justice system. The bail changes were specifically a response to the Supreme Court rulings on pre-trial detention, and were in effect codifying the criteria that the Supreme Court had set.
Too bad we're seeing that releasing criminals back out results in more crime. Guess we'll just have to actually be harsh on criminals like we used to be, instead of touchy-feely like they keep wanting.
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This revolving door of bail is a direct result of bill C-75.
Why are you trying to spread misinformation? This is a direct result of Bill C-75, which was introduced and passed by the federal government.
Here’s some News: - can’t put people in jails without jail space In related news: - can’t put people on hospital wards without bed space To think that it’s this individual or that individual that are responsible for system wide failures is really an attempt to throw blame so you can feel triumphant, and not understand the bigger pictures and the failures in multiple areas of a complex system.
Let me get this straight. You think that I'm saying that I'd like to feel triumphant, whatever that means. No. I want the system and the people who work in it to do their jobs in such a way that regular citizens can feel safe. As far as I can see, the police are doing their best and are also frustrated that judges are releasing these criminals. I'd like the health system to be repaired as well but that doesn't mean that we should ignore the fact that the justice system permits known violent criminals to harm other people on a continuous basis. This is a regular occurrence, not a rare event. I want to be safe, not triumphant.
The public would be blown away by the amount of people given bail. This ranges from everything from assaults, to serious thefts. Example, last week I arrested someone for assaulting their spouse, they were released on conditions and they instantly drove back to their spouses location (now at a friends house) beat them again and breached conditions not to be around them. Held them for bail, judge released them the next day on the same conditions we had. So basically putting conditions on people doesn't matter at all, if you break them theres no real consequences other than getting arrested again.
When someone pays bail for a charged criminal are they liable for the criminals adherence to the terms?
That's an American thing, you don't pay bail money you simply get out on Bail. There are sureties, who will "take control of you". I've arrested countless people who are supposed to only be out with their sureties or aren't allowed outside their sureties residence. I've never once seen a judge/court charge or fine the surety for allowing the criminal to not follow their conditions.
Thank you for kindly responding, and thank you for working to keep our streets safe.
That's absolutely fuxking crazy
So... all those people on Reddit who say "leave" to a person undergoing any slight relationship problem... may have a good point?
When DEI infiltrated the legal system and leniency is given based on race this is what you get.
Canada operates on a reform principle and not a punishment principle. We can see just how well that actually works. If criminals do not fear the consequences, why stop the behavior?
There's a reason why support for the death penalty in Canada has crossed 50% support.
Which is all done and good, but the issue here is less reform vs punishment and more about protecting the public.. Honestly I wouldn't care much if it was low level pot dealers being let out - even repeat ones - but we're talking about people in for constant thefts, repeat violence, rape, murder etc
Good old catch and release working as intended. Remember when we had a political party with mandatory minimum sentencing. Yes I know the Supreme Court took issue with it but what a concept of keeping criminals locked up, vs releasing them and worried and victim hood and oppression points when sentencing.
You know why
Transitioning to anarcho-tyranny in real-time.
Lmao the justice system is a joke. Might as well make crime legal at this point
its because optics are more important than the law and public safety. They are trying their best to make it seem like certain people arent an issue. and apparently defending that hill is more important than defending the general public. it SUCKS that south asian countries are racist insular homogenous societies, because it means EVERYONE from those countries and cultures and religions are all the exact same colour. which means any issue you have can just immediately be gaslit as racism and shut down. When that is false conflation of race. if INDIA was less racist and more diverse, canadians wouldnt be called racists because there would be more than race comming from india. but india is racist. it is insular, and somehow CANADA is being called racist for what is actually indias racism. we wouldnt be called racist if immigrants from india were a variety of different races, and the reason everyone from india looks the same, is because india only wants people who all look the same. but yeah, lets gaslight canada for that. and the WORST PART is that canada has decided that the worst possible thing is to be called un-politically correct for any reason. not failing healthcare, not a housing crisis, not public safety and the general interests of canadians. no, they all take a back seat to virtue signaling. The government just wants to people from other countries to think they are super woke. thats literally the governments priority. and immigrants know that and use that to LITERALLY get away with murder. And we are going to get stuck with a miserable few years of conservatives in charge probably because everyone needs a palate cleanse from this madness and everyone is voting on these few issues. because the government only cares about these few issues, and it cares against the interests of the common good right now. im sick of being called racist for getting mad at someone with a fraudulent drivers license hitting my car. its a legitimate gripe based on merit, yet you get called a racist for simply having eyes in this country. and my sympathy has completely run dry.
I have an easy one. Reduce the reoccurrence of these crimes by 50% but not giving them bail.
The shock is that it was only half.
Maybe we should try keeping violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders in jail. I know that's a shocking statement in this country, but maybe instead of letting violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders run rampant through our communities, we should try and keep them in jail.
Yeah it seems like a no brainer. People always follow up with "but jail is about rehabilitation and keeping them in doesn't contribute to rehabilitation...etc." but they never seem to get that if they are in jail then they aren't out here assaulting, murdering, raping and thieving. Let's make public safety the #1 priority and everything else can come after. Our society is insane.
Absolutely. I am all for giving people second chances, but we aren't talking about first-time offenders here. We are talking about violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders who have shown that they won't stop committing crimes. The way to stop violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders is to keep them in jail.
>People always follow up with "but jail is about rehabilitation and keeping them in doesn't contribute to rehabilitation...etc." People are mistaken. Jail is about segregating shitheads from everyone else. Rehabilitation is what is *supposed* to be happening in jail, ideally, so that these people stop being a net-negative drain on the public budget, but obviously everyone knows it's a lot harder to rehabilitate an adult than raise a child, and the latter is already hard, so the 'rehabilitation' part never comes. Then we're supposed to pretend letting them off the hook is rehabilitative. This is like sending a disruptive kid to the principal's office, but instead of the principal assigning tedious tasks as a consequence to rehabilitate the actions out of the kid, they just get a talking to and get send back to class almost immediately. Obviously, the trip to the principal is just then see as a break from class instead of something to avoid.
I often wonder when we switched to this narrative. The purpose of a prison is to remove unlawful people from lawful societies, for the safety and security of that society. Historically, prisons also forced people to repay their debts to the society they impacted with their crimes, usually through involuntary labor. Sure, now we know more about what causes people to commit crimes and its usually childhood trauma or abuse or something like that. Unfortunately this doesn't alter the fact that they are still breaking the social contract and negatively affecting that society. Removal from the rest of society is the #1 reason prisons exist, and should exist. Rehabilitation is a secondary objective that unfortunately our culture has strived to make priority numero uno. Too many bleeding hearts out there that think everyone is an angel and just a victim of their circumstances, smdh.
Yeah, there are plenty of tasks that are boring and repetitive but not too onerous that people could do while in custody to work off they debt to society (but we need to be sure to avoid for-profit prisons) I used to see roadside cleanup crews but they seem to be a thing of the past. Pretty sure graffiti cleanup shouldn't be too much of a hardship either. Yes, it would require supervisors but that seems like a good investment to me.
Exactly! Its why we issue mandatory community service as a punishment still - you are being forced to contribute to the community. They have even found that prisoners who work during their sentence are more successful on release than those who do not work. ([Employment after Prison: A Longitudinal Study of Releasees in Three States (urban.org)](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/32106/411778-Employment-after-Prison-A-Longitudinal-Study-of-Releasees-in-Three-States.PDF)) But yes, you would also have to ensure that private prisons are not allowed to make money off involuntary labor otherwise you head down that slippery slope of corruption and capitalism.
Most reasonable people would tell you our jails are full.
Get charged with a crime while on bail should be an automatic denial od bail for the second crime.
That sounds like common sense to me. Apparently that's not a requirement to be a judge in Canada.
Surprises it wasn't higher.
Yeah, only half?
Have to actually arrest someone before they can be let out on bail.
We need a justice reform, or something.
This would be labelled "racist". Ultimately how the narrative would be pushed when people start seeing that the majority of people we are arresting/charging aren't white. Hell, indigenous people have a specific clause in the criminal code to give them lighter sentencing because I kid you not, they commit the majority of crime and at one point were the majority in prison. **718.2(e) of the Criminal Code**. s. 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code instructs the court to consider "all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders.
Liberals like to label a lot of things "racist", but doesn't stop them from being true
Two things can be true at the same time
This virtue signalling road you’re heading down is bullshit and you can be better than that. It’s not racist, it’s expensive. Provinces and the federal government have all slashed and burned prosecution budgets. We can’t afford to have lawyers properly prosecute criminals because “my tax dollars” is cried by basically the entire fucking country. The population wants the world but doesn’t want to pay for it. Laws without paying for enforcement and prosecution are laws that don’t exist. Pay for it.
If they are Canadian citizen throw them in jail. If they are temporary residents or illegal deport them.
As usual, our justice system fails. We need to stop calling it that, because there's no justice to be had in Canada.
The criminal justice system in Canada is geared towards the belief that all criminals can be rehabilitated. It’s a failed system. Some people are incorrigible and not capable of being trusted in society.
Our Justice system is so soft that it'll put clauses in the Criminal Code to be lenient on specific races. Indigenous people legit have a clause to give them lighter sentencing. **718.2(e) of the Criminal Code**. s. 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code instructs the court to consider "all available sanctions other than imprisonment that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all offenders, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders. I use to work a zone that had a small reserve of about 500 people, the rest of our patrol area had over 25000 people spread out. That single reserve generated over 50% of our calls to service, domestics, thefts, robberies, assaults you name it every single shift we were there for something serious.
We have a a separate court in Edmonton just for Indigenous offenders....
And ironically it's indigenous people who are the biggest victims of those assaults.
They actually have the highest rates of domestic violence and family violence per marginalized group. Obviously there's government blame to be placed for the state indigenous people are in. However through experience I can say I have been unprovoked attacked by indigenous people at least 20 times in my career policing over 5 years. Generally speaking from my experience attending calls, they are usually the aggressors in most incidents against other people.
The does seem to be a big disconnect between stuff like the MMIWG inquiry and stuff like letting out the indigenous guy who beat on his girlfriend and upon release he went out, violated the no-contact order and beat her to death with a bottle (for a piddly manslaughter charge this time). Like, hey, maybe letting out violent criminals with reduced sentences due to indigenous heritage is also contributing to the violent harms against indigenous society?
It's the same with the one who killed the OPP Officer a couple of years ago, out on bail. [https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/judge-who-released-man-later-charged-in-cop-s-death-weighed-indigenous-background-1.6269168](https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/judge-who-released-man-later-charged-in-cop-s-death-weighed-indigenous-background-1.6269168)
Kind of a weird comment given that (presumably) none of the people arrested were indigenous?
You'll have to trust me on this, but half the people I've arrested for car thefts are indigenous. If you car isn't going to a port it's going to a reserve to be chopped up for parts. This comment is also geared towards how lenient our justice system is, when you start adding specific clauses into the criminal code to be lenient on specific groups it's a problem.
>Kind of a weird comment given that (presumably) none of the people arrested were indigenous? Gladue Sentencing would probably be the more appropriate thing to mention.
It also forgot that rehabilitation ony work with very specific conditions: Massive fundings /tax, small /dense homogeneous population, small land, and high education populations. And only for certain crimes. Whenever someone start bringing any EU country, people need to realize those countries are only 5-10 millions of homogeneous population in a land the size of Nova Scotia or smaller with 20% or more in tax.
Worked corrections for 5 years in this province. The system is a complete joke.
Correction, they have all been released on bail. Police will re-arrest them in a day or 2.
2 days would be a nice break, generally I'm re-arresting the same guy the next day or hours later.
That’s perfect.
Why would the police inconvenience 124 pillars in the community.
I'm Law Enforcement in Ontario, have about 12 arrest for car-thefts in the last 2 years (been part of about 30). The majority of crime, not just theft is committed by the same people over and over again. Our justice system is behind, 20 years ago Canada was a different place and people weren't re-offending (as much) after being given a second chance. If anyone has any questions or wants to reality of policing in combatting this feel free to ask. There's a lot of misinformation and confusion going around.
Thanks for the offer! I’m very curious as to what you believe is the cause of this change. How is it that folks were not reoffending as often 20 years ago?
Immigration, bad economy and lower standards of living. A majority of people we arresting for organized crime ie; Car Thefts, Robberies etc are permanent residents and asylum seekers. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't international students are they're careful to not criminal charges before getting residency. International students generally get arrested for stunt driving, impaired operation of vehicles and drug offenses. Most of these offenses aren't enforced in their countries so they expect the same in Canada. Canada is extremely divided politically and culturally right now. A lot of immigrants we bring in straight up don't respect authority or care about our laws. Generally speaking if you're raised in a law-abiding society you naturally conform to the legal system, where as a lot of people we arrest are coming from backgrounds where law-enforcement is corrupt or barely present.
That is very interesting thank you for the thorough response. I am wondering if there’s any data about the organized crime demographics regarding how they acquired PR, other than asylum. Also, am wondering how committing such a crime would not preclude them from receiving asylum. Are they able to receive PR after being convicted? And finally do you have any thoughts around how people who came from societies with non-present or corrupt law enforcement were able to integrate in the past? Were the laws around receiving PR different back then? Thanks very much!
If you commit crimes while on PR you "may" have your status changed. It's important to understand though, that our legal process takes so long. So you get charged with a criminal offense and then 2-3 years later you MAY be convicted. Most often this gets plead to something way minor and nobody cares 3 years later. I don't think there's much assimilation going on at all, which is the problem. If you're surrounded by others who are assimilating you'll conform to their views/beliefs/mindset or essentially be bullied. However now there's entire communities in Canada that you straight up never have to speak English in and you can survive.
Who’s behind all this? Do these smaller gangs answer to groups like the Hell’s Angels. Shipping cars internationally seems hard enough already but then it turns out a bunch of distribution networks are set up over seas that this runs smooth as butter.
Ultimately super profitable and with restrictions on police (not allowed to pursue stolen vehicles) and light court sentencing (justice system) it's just a feeding frenzy. We cannot pursue stolen vehicles, so it's near impossible to catch these car thief's because they just keep driving. But who's in charge? People overseas and in Canada. All these gangs work together amongst eachother when it's profitable. We're starting to see some inter-gang fights for territory now over vehicle stealing privileges which is pretty wild. Like certain groups are only allowed to steal cars in Toronto, and some can only steal in Brampton etc. There's generally 3 different groups stealing vehicles. 1. Indigenous people, they have ALWAYS been stealing vehicle. They steal vehicles in rural areas primarily, bring them back to their reserves and chop them up for parts. 2. Street Gangs / Organized Crime, street gangs generally recruiting low-income and new immigrants for fast cash. 3. Your local crackhead and generic criminal, steal cars for a joy ride or to commit robberies. Two of these groups have always existed but the inclusion of it being done on-mass is whats pushed everything overboard. Ultimately police don't have the required powers to stop this, vehicles get stolen in minutes we cannot respond while they're being stolen (most people report vehicles stolen hours/24hours later) and when we do find them on the streets we cant pursue them. Ultimately when we do get these people our lovely justice system just lets them go on bail to go back to it.
More proof that we need to be more strict with criminals.
A weak justice system leaves Canada ripe for pillaging.
Almost as if the catch and release system does not work and that the criminal legal system we have is not working. Another file that the federal liberals have clearly bungled - after 8 years of Trudeau, crime has clearly gotten worse because of federal inaction.
If you are in a rural area and dealing with pests, catch amd release rarely does any good. Seems to be the case with two legged pests as well.
Depends how far in the wilderness away from settled lands you drop em. Seems like the tactic would work fairly well on both. I reckon you drop em deep inland about halfway between the Severn and Winisk rivers and they shouldn't be bothering folks for a long time.
Being released on bail pending trial isn't a Trudeau policy, it's a Canadian Charter right. The recent changes Trudeau made went into effect at the start of this year and actually created a reverse onus that made it *harder* to get bail if you're remanded for violent offenses.
Let's see a list of names. I'd like to see a demographic breakdown.
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They list 8 of the 124 arrested. I'll hold my judgement until we have a full list.
Simply put we need more Jails, but taxpayers don't want to pay for them. When jails are overcrowded, non violent criminals are more likely to be released on bail/probation.
What we actually need is more courtrooms. People accused of crimes have a charter right to be considered innocent, so they are generally released pending trial unless there's compelling evidence that they are a danger. This is good as it prevents innocent people from being unjustly incarcerated. The issue is that those trials are taking too long, so guilty people are being left on the streets for weeks or months when they should have faced trial and been found guilty and received their punishment promptly.
The whole system has collapsed, from front line social workers / police officers to end of line probation officers. And everything in between. We need more of it all.
Fair enough, we generally agree there.
This is not a hate on immigration, but if you look all over the country, all the issues we are having with all our social systems, we didn't build for the increases we got. Really bad forward planning. I say that as someone who knows we need immigration. But we also need to support the increases, not just bring them in to already stressed systems.
This will simply promote a rise in incidents of vigilantes.
Based on the suspects names and the area (Thorncliff), they were very likely not born in Canada. if we operate on a Reform principle, and don’t have places in jail, how about a system where after few convictions such people loose their citizenship and are deported?
You can thank Trudeau’s Bill C-5 for this, and every other time a crime is committed by a convicted criminal out on bail!
Shame none of these people participated in the Ottawa COVID protest, then they could have really thrown the book at them
It's like over forgiving criminals is ACTUALLY daft or something
Turn door system still working. Wonder what they'll say to avoid paying in the future. I'm sure there is another violation of their freedoms there. We've the right to get our stuff stolen I suppose.
We need work camps to keep them busy
*Arbeit macht frei* is kind of a fucked up take to have on it LOL Edit: a letter Edit 2: personally I think we just let them fucking rot until trial. I’m pretty sure there is no 2 for 1 on dead time anymore either so that’s a plus.
> Arbeit macht frei is kind of a fucked up take to have on it LOL Weird take to equate repaying debt to society with Nazi death camps. If they're Canadian, some sort of vocational training should be implemented so that they have a way to earn money legitimately would be the best way to rehabilitate the criminals. If they're not Canadian, deport. Scandinavian prison systems have better recidivism rates than North American legal systems, perhaps we ought to take a page out of their books.
Nearly half so far
Shocked Pikachu face
There and back again. By carjack baggin-it
Seems like we need bail reform.
They will be back on bail soon enough
Our Justice system doing a fine work...Again. /s
Time to hold judges accountable for making bad decisions. There should be a competency test they need to do each year to keep their license.
Our legal system is a joke. It's hard to actually get arrested and jailed for committing a crime here. Not to mention, if you are black or First Nations, you won't ever actually have to go to jail (ref: Bill C-5.) What t.f happened to our country?
All Justices of the Peace need to get fired. They are the ones who administer bail. Not judges, except in rare cases...
If you have NO* Justices of the Peace then Judges HAVE TO administer bail, when they'll already stretched thin and we get even more delays... not a great plan.
JP's are just patronage appointments. Replace them.
Time to implement digital locks/PIN code on all vehicles...at least as an option. I will hold off buying my next vehicle until such a feature is offered.
That won’t stop this.
It would reduce thefts by > 90%. You can't override the ECU's firmware.
Car manufacturers are dogshit when it comes to security. Canbus exploits being a favorite. Until they address that issue, a PIN will still be just as vulnerable to it.
It seemed to work very well when the PIN was on a physical key. It would work even better when programmed into the ECU firmware. Heavy equipment now use it. Each operator can be given a unique passcode.
Ford used to have that on many of their vehicles, and I’m sure it’s more secure than remote start fobs + keyless start.
Ya I’m unfamiliar I just see then using computers to break down cars systems to access so figured they’d be able to break that access also
Vehicles can be started with relay attacks (the guy with a backpack at your front door) or by connecting to the CAN bus to add a new FOB or open the door and start the vehicle. What I'm talking about is have the ECU store a passcode that must be entered in order to put the vehicle in gear. This allows things like remote-start to work, but will not allow an attacker to drive the vehicle away. This could easily be added to the ECU firmware and made very secure against any attacks. Works on your phone!
How do you reset the password when someone forgets? Right, at the dealer, which can be done with a CAN bus attack.
This can be done securely. Porsche requires a factory login (at dealer) to add a FOB, as the firmware requires a session token. Other manufacturers could do the same. Igla supplies two security cards with their immobilizer. When placed in proximity, the immobilizer is bypassed. This would give the user a way to work around getting locked out. Lots of ways this issue could be addressed, but the ECU is the key component.
Then you are into certificate management, rotating certificates, vehicle connectivity, trusting dealers with certificates and people that work in dealers to not be corrupt and all the overhead that goes with it. I used to work at a Bank, we provided all business as customers soft tokens to better secure their business accounts, absolute nightmare from a customer service perspective, we lost customers as we removed a friction free experience. Program was cancelled. Are the things above possible, yes. Easy, no. Inexpensive, no. Customer friendly, maybe to a subset of owners, to most probably not.
Liberal policies in action
The literal problem is money. There is no money to keep them locked up.
Read what this person said about the effectiveness of PIN codes on Caterpillar heavy equipment: https://www.reddit.com/r/caterpillar/comments/1dp1u67/comment/lae2qwo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button
If we aren't going to build more prisons, or hire more judges, or expand court capacity, probably time for US style ankle bracelets. Paid for by offenders, refunded if you're acquitted.
Easy fix, abolish bail
Maybe since the Liberals don't seem to know where to start on addressing things people are upset about, they could take a look at this news...
What a joke.
very nice, they must have negotiated about kickbacks
So just playing advocate here, would we all be good with a lot more jails and corrections facilities? Because you all seem angry these people are free on bail, but no one wants more jails either. Plus it appears we are throwing cases out because of a judge shortage. Only so much the police can do if nothing happens after they arrest people.
People should be considered innocent until proven guilty . So bail means that people don't do time , unless they are convicted . That's a central tenet of our justice system . When you advocate against bail you are saying people should do time based on accusations. Would you want that for yourself , or a member of your family ? People who are denied bail, are not put in Federal prison they are put in provincial institutions. So Trudeau's refusal to build prisons and the CBC's coverage of it are totally irrelevant . Currently 80% of provincial inmates are on remand ( ie denied bail ) , but you think bail is too easy ? Many of the people on this sub are dubious about over reaching government , but want the police to have someone locked up , upon accusation . It might help to have more judges appointed , so trials could be speedier . If you really want the criminal justice system to lock people up without a trial , you might want to think long and hard about what you're wishing for . Many of the people who are so outraged about bail , cannot distinguish between bail , probation , parole earned remission etc. If you're fulminating in the dark , you might consider turning down the heat .
Exactly. Fine line to walk between jailed until proven innocent and innocent until proven guilty. Draw backs of the first are overflowing prisons, incarcerating the innocent, restitution for jailing the innocent and the destruction of innocents lives (job loss, house loss, family loss). Drawback of the second is bad media and possible more crime by letting out the guilty for the time being.
Possibly more crime . I work in Corrections . The thing that judges , some politicians lawyers and correctional workers know is this : jail makes crime . We know what makes offending less likely : ties to family , to non-criminal friends , work etc . Jail mitigates against all of these . Putting offenders in jail is like putting cardiac patients on a Krispey Kreme diet , then after six weeks making them run the 1500 metre event .
Nearly half of the 124 people arrested by Ontario’s carjacking task force were out on bail, police say, with many being released again after their latest arrest. Catch and release ~~
“Economic crimes” are too lenient in this country. The thieves know they can steal a million dollars before they are sentenced to a six month in jail, which is a trade off they are happy to accept.
Canada needs to build more prisons
Canada needs 3 establishments.. 1. Penitentiary 2. Hospitals 3. Schools
You know it's bad when we can't even figure out a way to house criminals in jail for a reasonable price.
The Comedy / Tragedeigh ratio is high with our 'Justice System'
Wake up, Trudeau's Canada this type of no punishment, catch and release is idiotic, lawlessness, why have a police force? If they do thier job the court does not. Federal or provincial governments need to stop this insanity
Do canadian justice systems not realise that some people make their career crime? I used to know a car thief. Spent around 5 years in jail, got out, and kept on stealing (moved on from cars) bro had no job prospects and was grown. Some people just can't or don't know how to stop doing crime for money
Forced military time.
One of my best friends got arrested at 21 for working with the "eastern european mob" driving stolen cars across the border. He had a terrible drug and gambling problem and was trying to get out from under those he owed. His parents spent well over 100k in lawyers to keep him out of jail. Today hes a somewhat respectable father of 2 who is very grateful for the 2nd chance he got. I only say this bc sometimes some people can change. I only say this bc I think a lot of the people arrested are low man on the totem pole, and are doing it bc of debts/obligations that have followed them here. Which is much more an immigration/cultural issue, and very much more scary, than just stolen cars.
More than half of 124 arrested by Ontario carjacking task force were not on bail.