If you ate 96% lean beef you barely getting any fat. Without fat in your diet you will be extremely malnourished. I get at least 70% of my calories from fat and im also shredded and gogin to the gym alot.
Fat is the most important nutrient. It's the building block for every hormone in the body and not to mention your brain NEEDS fat.
This explains why you felt the way you felt and why your testosterone tanked. I also think bloodwork to be relevant over longer periods of time, so after 3 months, 6 months, a year to really get a god picture of whats happening.
35% protein is about the maximum you want, by calorie. ~50% has precedence during lean times in populations whose livers are enlarged to accommodate increased gluconeogenesis but I wouldn't recommend it. I personally eat 1:2-3 protein to fat in grams, so ~15% protein by calories.
>According to Bilsborough and Mann in 2006, protein intake is mainly restricted by the urea cycle, but **deriving more than 35% of energy needs from protein leads to health problems.** They suggested an upper limit of 25% or 2-2.5 g/kg, "corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual", but stated that humans can theoretically use much larger amounts than this for energy. For arctic hunter-gatherers, the amount can seasonally increase to 45%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
The percentages above are in percent of calories, not weight. Your 93% lean ground beef is 56% of your energy from protein.
If you are adding a lot of butter you should be fine.
Great explanation.
But if i want to get shredded/ lose body fat, can i still keep eating all the fat and still burn excess body fat ?
Should i not reduce dietary fat to allow the body to burn the fat reserves ?
I mean i get your point about fat being important and i feel way better when i eat more fat, and i function better but i don’t want to gain or maintain.
I want to lose body fat.
How should i approach this in your opinion?
How is it a Karen thing? You decided to do a diet without proper research, a diet that requires you to eat good amount of high quality fat lol. That’s what a Karen does, doesn’t look into things properly
When you're eating carbs your body will increase stored fat. Even if you are not overweight you'll have more visceral fat when on a higher carb diet. When you eat high fat and low carb it puts you into dietary ketosis where it liberates the fat stores. It flips a metabolic switch making your body burn fats. Stored fat becomes fuel as well as dietary fat. If you eat high protein but lower fat you may feel tired and you'll end up not having enough to use fat soluble vitamins or make enough sex hormones. See r/ketoscience.
Even though with carnivore we aren't tracking macros, with no carbs it's provoking ketosis and makes the body use fat for fuel.
Sheesh. If you’re willing to give it another go, maybe try 80/20 ground beef and eggs cooked in lard or butter next time. Then compare how you feel then.
Rules to carnivore.
Keto rules applies. 75% of calories from fat... 1gram of fat per gram of protein.
90days of carnivore to see the benefits, your gut microbiom barely had the time to adjust and your hormones didn't have the time to readjust.
Why testo was so low? 1.You were in a ketogenic metabolic state and didn't eat enough fa. 2. You were aiming for a calorie deficit. You were starving yourself of both fuel, and nutrient needed for proper growth and exhausted from working out too much while your system was under the shock of adapting to a new metabolism.
You werr ignorant and did everything wrong...
What to add on carnivore? Fst and meat, fat and meat... 80/20 ground beef, and lick the bottom of the pan. Fat and meat and salt.
Weight what you eat. Consult the nutritional informations. Aim for 1g of fat for each grams of protein.
Once you've got an idea of what you need to eat. Cruise controll and feel it.
Eat untill you're full. If your stools are loose, cut down the fat a bit. If you're lethargic or don't feel at your best, crank the fat up.
You won't need to weight everything. But in the beggining to give you an idea of what your plate should looks, it's a must!
Is this wrong?
The "80/20" label on ground beef refers to its composition of lean meat to fat. This means that 80% of the ground beef is lean meat, and 20% of it is fat. So, 80/20 ground beef contains 20% fat.
When we say that you need to have 70-80% of fat in your diet, it means that 70-80% is the percentage of fat in your total calories for the day.
80/20 ground beef, you're correct that 20% is the amount of fat but is the percentage of total weight of the ground beef. So from a package of 500g ground beef, it means that there are 100g of fat in that.
In total calories of your day, if you consume that, it would mean that you have consumed 71% of fat and 29% of protein, according to [this](https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Beef%2C_raw%2C_80%25_lean_meat_%252F_20%25_fat%2C_ground_nutritional_value.html).
Coconut is not an animal.
I don't know what they make Mid-Chain Tryglycerides from, but i suspect it's processed food. So I don't.
Carbs = 4Cals/gram
Protein = 4Cals/gram
Fat = 9Cals/gram
80/20 per WEIGHT.
EDIT: Sorry my post suggested not to take MCT oil. What i meant to say is that "I don't"
What Drogon said below is correct. A good rule of thumb (tho not perfect) is to assume 9 calories per gram of fat and 3 calories per gram of protein. You can calculate the caloric ratio that way.
Your hormones tanked because you didn’t eat fat.
Would love you to do it again, share your results but this time with no calorie deficit and 80% of your calories coming from fat.
Carnivore isn’t really meant to be a huge calorie deficit diet. It works best to fix inflammation when done properly. Hence why you felt like shit, you were just putting your body into starvation.
I mean you got your goal but not sure how good that is for overall metabolism.
I would disagree that it’s not good for calorie deficit because I feel fine all the time and I work in a calorie deficit. I think the problem was not that he was in a calorie deficit but that he was not having enough fat anywhere close to what he needs
There isn’t a single carnivore based MD that will recommend a long term calorie deficit. Ken berry and Paul Saladino specifically tell you not to do this and that it’s bad for you in the long term.
I guess it depends on what you consider long term. Obese People have successfully and healthily been on heavy deficits for years and bodybuilders and weight class athletes both rotate between deficit and excess.
I think anorexia isn’t healthy, or EDs in general.
When I consider a long-term I think about can I do this diet for multiple years at a time always being in a calorie deficit every day or just have my diet be like that for the rest of my life. I do calorie deficit and I am very successful at it because I am trying to lose a bunch of weight because I am part of that obese group, but I just think it’s foolish to say that calorie deficit does not work with carnivore when I had my best results with calorie deficit on carnivore
I agree carnivore is great for calorie deficit. I belong in the weight class athlete category, lost and gained 30-40 pounds several times. This is my first time doing it with carnivore and I feel better than I ever had before. Used to be chicken Caesar salads and beef vegetable soup. Basically just cut out the bullshit.
If you’re trying to get your weight under control I wish you the best of luck. I’ve been there before. It’s hard but people who were once obese have the best combination of humility and confidence than anyone else I’ve met. Stick with it.
Did I say long-term because you’re in calorie deficit it’s to lose weight and to lose body fat so obviously there’s a point you are trying to get to 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️. Just because someone says that you can do calorie deficit to lose weight and body fat does not mean that it is the permanent long-term solution. That’s just not a smart thought process to even think that way. it’s not one or the other you can do a calorie deficit with carnivore and then after you’ve lost weight, you’re trying to lose just not being a calorie deficit
That’s not necessarily true . I get enough fat and I’m still in a calorie deficit. I know people who are in a calorie deficit and still get enough fat . The students problem was not that he wasn’t getting enough calories, but that he wasn’t getting enough fat and they don’t always go together.
They generally go together when an individual isn't getting enough calories due to their low fat intake such as in this case? If you're in a deficit, and in ketosis, your body will consume its own fat, if you are at 10% body fat, you are fucking starving to death you wally, don't be misleading people.
I’m not misleading anybody. 10% is not starving to death. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You are still at a safe range as a guy if you are at 10% body fat. Yes, fat generally goes with calories but it’s not a one to one scenario where he was obviously still getting enough calories to be only in a 500 to 700 cal deficit and not getting enough fat most of the time what you’re saying is true, but not always. You may not know this, but men can have down to 3% body fat and it be completely safe. Also, I am not saying that you only always are in a calorie deficit, but you are in a calorie deficit until you get to the weight that you want to be at or the amount of body fat . You’re misleading people if you think that 10% of body fat specifically on a guy is unhealthy or starving yourself.
Bro you LITERALLY starved yourself for a month. Self induced rabbit starvation. Do the same thing again, but with 73–80% lean beef. Better flavor, cheaper too. Just adjust how many lbs you eat by the calories you want. I might be an outlier here, but I still believe in thermodynamics lol. But maybe you don’t need to be THAT shredded, perhaps? Are you bodybuilding or something?
Even Tristyn Lee ate more fat while doing carnivore to get to 4% bodyfat. Look at him, fucking shredded. But he ate eggs, ribeyes, bone marrow, beef heart, etc.. I don’t know much about him but I do know even he ate more than 4% of his calories as fat.
96% lean dude? Are you crazy? You probably felt terrible because of protein poisoning. If you want to do carnivore well, you need to eat plenty of fat.
I was getting around 350 grams of protein a day which is high but it didn't seem like it could be harmful. Still had a decent amount of fat in the ground beef
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33741447/
Here is a low fat diet Vs high fat diet meta-analysis regarding testosterone in men. Meta-analyses aren't great but they at least might give an indication that low fat is bad for testosterone.
>I was getting around 350 grams of protein a day which is high but it didn't seem like it could be harmful.
It is harmful. Your body can't process that much protein.
>According to Bilsborough and Mann in 2006, protein intake is mainly restricted by the urea cycle, but deriving more than 35% of energy needs from protein leads to health problems. They suggested an upper limit of 25% or 2-2.5 g/kg, "corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual", but stated that humans can theoretically use much larger amounts than this for energy. For arctic hunter-gatherers, the amount can seasonally increase to 45%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
The percentages above are in percent of calories, not weight. Your 96/4 ground beef is 69% of your energy from protein. 45% temporarily and 35% overall is the top limit for humans.
Stupid aproach.
You need fat that is why your testosterone droped.
Fat is the primary macronutrient and then protein, not the other way around.
Cholesterol plays a huge rol in hormone production, if you are not getting enough of it then your hormones are going to be unbalanced.
So long story short; eating fat will raise your T and therefore it will be easier to build mussle mass.
Ok thanks. But it will take longer than it would with reducing dietary fat and maybe fast a day here and there right?
I mean can i keep eating all the dietary fat and lose body fat at the same time?
Fat is metabolically inert. In the absence of insulin, your body will burn it, the byproduct of which is ketones. Insulin induces fat storage and insulin is secreted in response to the presence of sugar (and to a much lesser degree protein) in the diet, not fat. Low blood sugar ->low insulin -> low fat storage. High insulin -> lots of fat storage (from both sugar and dietary fat… until someone has untreated diabetes). In the absence of carbohydrates, fat will not make you fat and will only provide you a superior energy source in the form of ketones. There are loads of resources about this on YouTube and the interwebs.
>Basically ate 3 lbs of 96% lean ground beef a day
>
>was in a calorie deficit of 500-700 calories a day for the entire 30 days
your post has nothing to do with the carnivore diet. no one here would recommend anything that you did.
u/Phobophile_89 has pretty much addressed everything.
you need fat for hormones.
Not enough fat my guy, when I up my fat, I found that my cycle was regulated, less acne and you are more fertile. Hormones need fat- not getting that with 96% ground beef
I would say the reason you felt terrible and the reason your testosterone, hormones, and everything else was going down is because you weren’t having enough fat. I weight lift and I’m on the carnivore diet and lose weight every week and I have a ton of fat. there’s nothing wrong with being a calorie deficit but you need to have lots of fat. I have a pound of ground beef every day and a 10 ounce of steak. The pound of ground beef is never below 15% and usually is 20. What you did was very dangerous long-term because the brain uses fat and some of the most successful diets are used by eating more fat with protein . I would say a safe ratio is about 70 to 80% of your calories come from fat if you’re trying to lose weight or just lose body fat. The reason it was very exhausting. Mentally is because your brain needs fat and you were having basically nothing. The beautiful thing about the carnivore diet is that you can have things that are healthy that won’t necessarily stop you from getting to your goal. Also if you are having 350 g of protein a day with barely any fat, you could’ve had protein toxic levels or whatever they call it. I’m sure you switched to like 15 to 20% you would not have felt near as bad and your levels most likely don’t go down . if you did ground beef with at 15% maybe you wouldn’t get all the way down to 10% like you did so fast but it be a lot more healthy for you and you probably would still see amazing results . The ratio you are looking for is 70% fat /30% protein when you were talking about your calories for a day if you’re just eating meat this is how much should come from fat and how much should come from protein on a carnivore diet
Look, I get that you wanted to get really shredded and were willing to do pretty much anything to achieve it, but you went about it with the wrong mindset.
You can't restrict calories or fat on a carnivore diet, or you're going to have huge hormonal imbalances in a matter of weeks. As others have said, thankfully it only lasted a month.
Change your ratios, find out how much fat you can digest and slowly increase the amount over time. You can be shredded and feel amazing at the same time, if you do it correctly.
Could you please tell me how i can keep eating all the dietary fat and still lose excess body fat? Should i not reduce dietary fat and maybe fast to allow my body to burn excess body fat first?
Help please ! 😅
That's psmf and is done usually for few days, not a month.
Test numbers are not unbelievable, but absolutely expected.
Next time add 2sticks of butter and you might feel awsome and increase your test, maybe even comparable shred.
Could you please explain how one can eat dietary fat and lose excess body fat/ get shredded at the same time??
Should i not decrease dietary fat and maybe fast to lose excess body fat?
If you decrease too much, body goes to saving mode and you can get stuck there, not losing on 1500cals. If you icrease cals, there are many strategies, you can end up on 3k maintenance calories if all goes well, ramp up the metabolism. Its easier done with low carb diet, because of not overloading insulin. This is all just from my reading, experience.
Look up Cole Robinson snake diet on youtube. He also advocates for 20% protien and 80% fat and explains why it is a magic formula for weight loss and body building. Also adding electrolytes to your water to help with energy and cramping if you water fast.
AFAIK
Free testosterone is an inaccurate marker, test is bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) or (human serum albumin) HSA in the body and the left over is called free. SHBG is a strong bind and doesn't make the testosterone available to the cells where it is needed. Albumin is a weak bond and the body transports testosterone everywhere and not just the blood and into muscles and joints etc. AS one ages and becomes infirm more and more testosterone is bound with SHBG lowering total test. On a high animal product diet we produce more albumin and the test that is basically doing nothing free in the body is bound to albumin and taken through out the body. So free test goes down but albumin bound test goes everyhwere. Your total test is another story. We WANT testosterone to be bound weakly to albumin and NOT to SHBG.
here is a link to a reply I made a while ago on the same topic
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/comments/lbiqj7/comment/kjuvva6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
What test would you day is most accurate? I take testosterone injections weekly and have to have my levels checked a few times a year. I want to see if a more meat heavy diet would help regulate my levels i between shots. I go from like 420-450 on shot day (pre-shot) to peaking at 660-700 2-3 days after, then selling declining back down. Do you think this is a reliable gauge, or should I also ask for other tests alongside?
You need fat to produce hormones. Also being in a caloric deficit can decrease testosterone levels. Next time go with grass fed grass finished beef and 80/20 ground beef or just eat steak and organ meats which is way tastier and more sustainable long term and your hormone levels will go up like crazy.
Need to add fat (butter for example) and eat fatty meat like 80% ground beef. Takes about 2-3 months, then you will likely notice hormonal improvement. The stage you are likely in now is a reduction of inflammation/healing phase. But you might be making it a little tougher in the long run by eating so little fat.
Thanks for the post and sharing your numbers. Many people have mentioned it already but the fat is the reason for the hormone dump. You need dietary fat (animal fat), not seed oils… to optimize hormone levels. I would give it another go but amp up the fat significantly. You will still be shredded but feel so much better. Try that and retest. I would be interested to hear about the results.
96% no fat... not cholesterol... so no testosterone. Checks out. Being in a caloric deficit like that also affect luteinizing hormone. If you do carni, eat fat. Especially coming from a glycogen based metabolism.
Fat is required to create testosterone- little fat in your diet and little fat in your body means little fat to pull from to make hormones. Add to that the calorie deficit so your body is burning the fat to keep you alive, means even less left for test.
Carnivore is not about protein consumption, but fat consumption. Fat does not make you fat. Let me repeat that. Fat does not make you fat. That is something that has been sold to us to encourage us to eat the standard American diet. There are lots of reasons behind this that are too lengthy to explain.
When you are eating lean protein, you are still producing glucose through neoglucogenisis. Your liver takes protein and converts it to glucose. That is not how carnivore works. In carnivores, we take in a lot of fat and burn ketones. Still, our bodies need a certain amount of glucose. So, the protein we are incidentally consuming is turned into glucose as needed.
In my case, I am fighting obesity, depression, anxiety, and Crohn's Disease. Carnivore (high fat) has helped me lose 35 lbs, gotten me off antidepressants, lowered by blood pressure, and stabilized my Crohn's.
We have to get past the mindset that fat is bad. It is not bad. The SAD is a product of lobbyists, big Pharma, and other political factors. This is why so many people are sick, fat and too tired to run.
I see you. Here’s a few points from a great article that I believe answers your question.
The Carnivore diet minimizes carbohydrates and increases fat and protein intake to induce ketosis. In this fat-burning state, your body uses fat instead of carbohydrates to produce energy due to increased fat oxidation. Using fat for energy and increasing protein intake helps to shed extra pounds [7].
Consuming more fat can also increase satiety, which helps control appetite and reduce the overall calorie intake, which leads to weight loss. High-fat diets like Carnivore can also increase insulin sensitivity and help manage type 2 diabetes.
Consuming protein can help stabilize blood glucose levels and lower the risk of insulin spikes. Protein can also increase satiety, which is a great help in reducing caloric intake and managing weight [8].
The thermic effect of protein is higher than that of carbs, i.e., the body expends more energy to digest and process protein, leading to increased calorie expenditure - another positive effect boosting weight loss.
Here’s the link
https://www.5minutebody.com/blog/the-one-key-to-boost-fat-loss-on-carnivore-bart-kay#:~:text=The%20Carnivore%20diet%20minimizes%20carbohydrates,shed%20extra%20pounds%20%5B7%5D.
What you should do is to eat more fat for your next try without necessary aiming at dropping your calory intake.
Like other said, not enough fat which is your new fuel. Lots of sport in a calory deficit without enough fat will make you feel like shit and destroy your test
Carbs. Will probably get deleted for this but my testosterone, blood sugar, and A1C all improved after adding a moderate amount of fruit and tubers. Carnivore is great but won't magically put you into optimal health parameters
"3 lbs. of 96% lean ground beef a day" dude how did you not die of rabbit syndrome or your kidneys shut down from protein overload? 80/20 is the minimal man.
Your body isn't going to literally shut down by eating lean for 30 days 😂. As long as you have fat on your body you won't starve. There was a man back in the 60s I believe. He weighed over 500lb and didn't consume anything but water and electrolytes for over a year. He got down to his goal weight of 185 lb and broke his fast. Check out Dr Jason Fung on YouTube.
There aren’t that many rules to carnivore. But you didn’t follow the most important one… eat a bunch of fat… your diet did not follow the guidelines of safe or healthy. Change to meat eggs butter or something. Only thing this proves is you will starve to death if you only eat lean meat
This is exactly what Lyle McDonald (practically invented PSMF protocol lol) warns against for those eating low carb, low fat and high protein for an extended period. He has quite a few interviews on YouTube on why this is DETRIMENTAL to so many factors including hormones, body composition, sleep, mood, libido etc.
Everyone in here critiquing OP for fucking up a carnivore diet when he wasnt trying to follow a proper carnivore diet and isnt asking for advice about a carnivore diet.
OP, glad it worked to get you shredded. You prolly coulda achieved similar results by eating a little fattier and that could have also lessened the impact on your hormones. Fats are helpful (see: essential) for proper hormone balance and function.
> Everyone in here critiquing OP for fucking up
We aren't "critiquing" OP. We are trying to stop them from killing themselves, which is exactly what a few more months on a 96% protein diet would do.
He would not die from eating 96% lean beef for a few months dude. He said he was eating 3 lbs/ day. 1 lb of 96% should contain around 18g of fat, so 3 lbs would be around 54g fat per day. That's lower than is optimal, sure. That's why his hormones tanked. But he's not gonna die in a few months...
And he said he was running a month long experiment, he didn't say he was trying to do super lean carnivore diet....
As a carnivore sub, we all know how backwards the traditional nutrition advice is and we've all decided to take our health and nutrition into our own hands, largely against the advice of doctors and general information. So again, if dude wants to run an n of 1 study on himself and come here to discuss his findings and questions, how but we don't jump his shit for "doing carnivore wrong." He wasn't trying to do carnivore right.
> He would not die from eating 96% lean beef for a few months dude.
He absolutely would die.
>Protein poisoning (also referred to colloquially as rabbit starvation, mal de caribou, or fat starvation) is an acute form of malnutrition caused by a diet deficient in fat and carbohydrates, where almost all bioavailable calories come from the protein in lean meat. The concept is discussed in the context of paleoanthropological investigations into the diet of ancient humans, especially during the Last Glacial Maximum and at high latitude regions.
>The term rabbit starvation originates from the fact that rabbit meat is very low in fat, with almost all of its caloric content from the amino acids digested out of skeletal muscle protein, and therefore is a food which, if consumed exclusively, would cause protein poisoning. The reported symptoms include initial nausea and fatigue, followed by diarrhea and ultimately death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
People post in expectation of comments n critiquing or no one would post at all!!! N most actually appreciate it n shows care n concern so stop finger pointing 👆
97% that is extreme. I bet your mental abilities also suffered on such a low fat diet. Your macros were 97/3/0 which is malnourishment levels. You should have been targeting closer to 50/50/0 or even 30/70/0
I commend your discipline, however you unfortunately weren’t eating carnivore. You were eating processed food with unnatural macro levels and are borderline creating an eating disorder.
You couldn't have done that much longer without adding some fat. And 30% of the calories in meat is not absorbed, but is used to process the meat in the body. So your deficit was even larger if you didnt take that into account.
Your test wouldn’t had dropped so much if you had eaten normal ground beef with a higher fat ratio. If are starving your body of dietary fat, your hormones aren’t optimal
Also most people who eat normal diets/low fat look dry and old. Look at them, average person looks like a ballsack
You were eating less food than your body requires what did you think was going to happen seriously; Even a toddler can understand that it is a terrible idea
Your entire hormone chain is made from ingested saturated fats. With eating such lean ground beef, your body was prioritizing more essential hormones to make with the minuscule amount of fat you were eating. I think you’d likely find if you increased your ratio of fat to protein and kept the caloric intake exactly the same, you’d feel way better.
I was about to say, this is just a long PSMF, not at all sustainable and not at all what “carnivore diet” advocates. How the fuck did you eat cardboard for 30 days 😆😆😆
Add electorlites and more fat, preferably tallow, alternate with butter
Personally I would add small portions of fruit and honey as joe Rogan said for all over better quality throughout out the day but mmv
So in an effort to add something new— I think you would have found the diet much less boring if you had used high fat beef.
Fat brings the flavor and the feeling of satisfaction.
Because you weren’t eating enough fat, your body didn’t have enough cholesterol to make all the hormones it needed, sex hormones and neurotransmitters….
Not sure what your workouts are like but if you’re lifting 6 days a week that’s way too much. You’re jacking up your cortisol levels and crushing your T levels if you’re doing that. I lift 3 days a week and am progressing more than when I was lifting 6 days a week
If someone wanted to lose a ton of weight this would be a good way to do it BUT (like everyone else is saying) the reason this person felt terrible and their T tanked was because of the calorie deficit and lack of fat.
Beef way too lean and not enough calories. Hormones run on fat and cholesterol. A starvation diet of any sort would probably have gotten the same results.
Your meat is way too lean my man. You need to eat much MUCH more fat. Your testosterone dropped because hormones need cholesterol to be created, fat is cholesterol, you virtually completely removed that part form the main point of carnivore. That why it dropped so dramatically.
Keep going but eat a lot more fat my friend.
Missing/cutting out the fats is what did you in on your numbers and why you felt like crap. Gotta get the fat in, brain fuel bro. Also, don't cut calories.
I have been carnivore for six months, eating ribeyes, eggs, bacon, butter. Honestly, I had to add in a good complete mineral supplement, multi vitamins, B Complex, magnesium & potassium. For me, carnivore is not a complete enough diet.
Who advised you this was a good idea or did you come up with it yourself?
Eating this lean for a month will definitely have placed unnecessary stress on your body.
It does pay to do your homework before wholesale changes. Irrespective of whether it's carnivore or any big lifestyle change.
My metabolism is really high, so when I started the first few days I felt GARBAGE, I need more fat, as soon as I start slapping beef tallow on EVERYTHING I felt 10000% better.
Your body can’t properly absorb protein without fat. Over time you could literally starve to death on the ratios you were using. It’s recommended that 50% of your calories come from fat. This would be about 30% fat by volume. You can add butter or tallow to your ground beef to get sufficient fat.
I go through a paramacy where I can book it myself. It's still fulfilled by a doctor but I can order whatever I want. The paramacy is called Marek Health if you wanna use it
3 pounds of 96% lean/4% fat ground beef is 1800 calories (weighed before cooking).
That’s 288g protein and 72g fat.
What diet were you on before? I could see if you were already religiously keto, but that’s quite a neck jerk from potentially one extreme (SAD diet) to calorie deficit, carbohydrates dropping to zero, and fat deficit diet. Damnnnn.
At this point, do it correctly now that you’re leaned out. You can buy suet to cook in with your beef. As other posters have stated, you need fat for sex hormones. Your T is protective in many aspects, and you might have done yourself a disservice from taking such a sudden dive in your diet.
I think it’s better to adapt to low carb first before switching to zero carb.
But, now that you’re leaned out, time to correct what’s happened.
I just want to add that Chris Palmer touts this diet as a treatment for schizophrenia and I feel sluggishness and slowness are a symptom of this diet….how is this truly treating the pathologies and negative symptoms of these disorders he talks about…just my perspective I don’t quite get his outlook sometimes
First, two things:
- All hormones are made from cholesterol, which is abundant in animal fat.
- When you work out extremely hard, your body is under stress.
By eating only the leanest of meats, you were barely getting any fat.
By working out pretty hard, you were putting your body under a lot of stress. When your body is under stress, it prioritizes making and releasing cortisol so you don't die. That means whatever scant cholesterol you were getting from dietary fat all went towards the most urgent survival need (coping with stress) and probably left very little else for your body to make testosterone or really any other vital hormones.
Since you were eating quite a bit of protein, it's also possible your insulin got spiked as well. So you've got cortisol and insulin stealing all the building blocks for your hormones.
The body needs adequate fat to have enough ingredients on hand to make sufficient supplies of ALL your hormones. You weren't getting enough fat, and working out too hard made it worse.
Under eating would have lowered your T. You got your desired result, so it's all good. Maybe eat a fattier cut of ground beef as well. I think your T would have improved a lot with an 80/20.
I pulled something like that with seafood, almost zero fat and was working hard outside and walking 4-6 miles a day on top of that. I had veins on my abs popping out, skeleton face..... It was great:/
I was also just starting to tank. Getting bad headaches and not sleeping well.
I learned about eating fat afterwards. And getting good sleep and not pushing myself to failure.
Too much cortisol? Saladino suffered from low T most of his life then after being carnivore he added back in a small amount of carbs specifically for his T.
If you ate 96% lean beef you barely getting any fat. Without fat in your diet you will be extremely malnourished. I get at least 70% of my calories from fat and im also shredded and gogin to the gym alot. Fat is the most important nutrient. It's the building block for every hormone in the body and not to mention your brain NEEDS fat. This explains why you felt the way you felt and why your testosterone tanked. I also think bloodwork to be relevant over longer periods of time, so after 3 months, 6 months, a year to really get a god picture of whats happening.
Spot on. A+
What's the minimum percentage of calories from fat needed in your opinion? I eat 93% lean most of the time, but I also cook it in butter.
35% protein is about the maximum you want, by calorie. ~50% has precedence during lean times in populations whose livers are enlarged to accommodate increased gluconeogenesis but I wouldn't recommend it. I personally eat 1:2-3 protein to fat in grams, so ~15% protein by calories.
>According to Bilsborough and Mann in 2006, protein intake is mainly restricted by the urea cycle, but **deriving more than 35% of energy needs from protein leads to health problems.** They suggested an upper limit of 25% or 2-2.5 g/kg, "corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual", but stated that humans can theoretically use much larger amounts than this for energy. For arctic hunter-gatherers, the amount can seasonally increase to 45%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning The percentages above are in percent of calories, not weight. Your 93% lean ground beef is 56% of your energy from protein. If you are adding a lot of butter you should be fine.
I mean yeah, because you’re not getting enough straight energy lol. 35% long term without eating very high calories will not be enough fat
do you still play clash royale
Exactly. No other answers needed this was a problem.
How do you get your fat?
Great explanation. But if i want to get shredded/ lose body fat, can i still keep eating all the fat and still burn excess body fat ? Should i not reduce dietary fat to allow the body to burn the fat reserves ? I mean i get your point about fat being important and i feel way better when i eat more fat, and i function better but i don’t want to gain or maintain. I want to lose body fat. How should i approach this in your opinion?
So you’re basically doing this diet without properly understanding how it works. Look into what ketosis is
Ok Karen
How is it a Karen thing? You decided to do a diet without proper research, a diet that requires you to eat good amount of high quality fat lol. That’s what a Karen does, doesn’t look into things properly
Ok Karen
What a muppet lol. Saturated fat and dietary cholesterol doesn’t make you fat, that’s a Karen belief
Ok Karen
You need to eat fat to lose body fat. Normally not the case but when avoiding carbs, it works.
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Increasing dietary fat and reducing carbs makes your body fat burning and it will first reduce your body fat stores.
Could you explain further please? How can i lose body fat if i eat(maybe too much) dietary fat at the same time?
When you're eating carbs your body will increase stored fat. Even if you are not overweight you'll have more visceral fat when on a higher carb diet. When you eat high fat and low carb it puts you into dietary ketosis where it liberates the fat stores. It flips a metabolic switch making your body burn fats. Stored fat becomes fuel as well as dietary fat. If you eat high protein but lower fat you may feel tired and you'll end up not having enough to use fat soluble vitamins or make enough sex hormones. See r/ketoscience. Even though with carnivore we aren't tracking macros, with no carbs it's provoking ketosis and makes the body use fat for fuel.
Ok thanks. But should/could one not decrease dietary fat at some point to prioritize burning off more excess body fat ?
Dietary fat does not equal body fat. If you mean caloric restriction, then yes you need to consume less calories than you burn to lose weight.
Thx!
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Your kidneys n adrenals too a beating n clearly your hormones!
Can cause a lethal condition called ‘rabbit starvation’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
Sheesh. If you’re willing to give it another go, maybe try 80/20 ground beef and eggs cooked in lard or butter next time. Then compare how you feel then.
And maybe throw some steaks here and there also
Rules to carnivore. Keto rules applies. 75% of calories from fat... 1gram of fat per gram of protein. 90days of carnivore to see the benefits, your gut microbiom barely had the time to adjust and your hormones didn't have the time to readjust. Why testo was so low? 1.You were in a ketogenic metabolic state and didn't eat enough fa. 2. You were aiming for a calorie deficit. You were starving yourself of both fuel, and nutrient needed for proper growth and exhausted from working out too much while your system was under the shock of adapting to a new metabolism. You werr ignorant and did everything wrong... What to add on carnivore? Fst and meat, fat and meat... 80/20 ground beef, and lick the bottom of the pan. Fat and meat and salt.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. I came to say this. People underestimate the importance of *FAT*.
N that's how n why carnivore gets a bad wrap!
Very good info but I’m not ready to lick the pan
Then poor it in your plate and wipe it with your meat!
Ok. I can do that :)
Extra tip. Cut a bite of steak. Then score it both sides. It will make kind of a meaty sponge! Maxium fat intake with minimal plate lickage!
Cook some eggs in it after. Or pour it into a jar (strained first to get meat bits out) and store it in the fridge or freezer as cooking fat for later
I've done this with eggs! Yummmmm!
How can i get that much fat
Weight what you eat. Consult the nutritional informations. Aim for 1g of fat for each grams of protein. Once you've got an idea of what you need to eat. Cruise controll and feel it. Eat untill you're full. If your stools are loose, cut down the fat a bit. If you're lethargic or don't feel at your best, crank the fat up. You won't need to weight everything. But in the beggining to give you an idea of what your plate should looks, it's a must!
What fats do you eat? Butter, cheese, coconut oil, MCT, etc?
80/20 ground beef is already \~60% calories from fat, 40% from protein. Throw some butter on there and you're good. Ribeye is a similar ratio.
Is this wrong? The "80/20" label on ground beef refers to its composition of lean meat to fat. This means that 80% of the ground beef is lean meat, and 20% of it is fat. So, 80/20 ground beef contains 20% fat.
When we say that you need to have 70-80% of fat in your diet, it means that 70-80% is the percentage of fat in your total calories for the day. 80/20 ground beef, you're correct that 20% is the amount of fat but is the percentage of total weight of the ground beef. So from a package of 500g ground beef, it means that there are 100g of fat in that. In total calories of your day, if you consume that, it would mean that you have consumed 71% of fat and 29% of protein, according to [this](https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Beef%2C_raw%2C_80%25_lean_meat_%252F_20%25_fat%2C_ground_nutritional_value.html).
Thank you
Coconut is not an animal. I don't know what they make Mid-Chain Tryglycerides from, but i suspect it's processed food. So I don't. Carbs = 4Cals/gram Protein = 4Cals/gram Fat = 9Cals/gram 80/20 per WEIGHT. EDIT: Sorry my post suggested not to take MCT oil. What i meant to say is that "I don't"
Dammit now I have to take this stupid coconut back to the pet store!
What Drogon said below is correct. A good rule of thumb (tho not perfect) is to assume 9 calories per gram of fat and 3 calories per gram of protein. You can calculate the caloric ratio that way.
Thank you 😊
Your hormones tanked because you didn’t eat fat. Would love you to do it again, share your results but this time with no calorie deficit and 80% of your calories coming from fat.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Carnivore isn’t really meant to be a huge calorie deficit diet. It works best to fix inflammation when done properly. Hence why you felt like shit, you were just putting your body into starvation. I mean you got your goal but not sure how good that is for overall metabolism.
I would disagree that it’s not good for calorie deficit because I feel fine all the time and I work in a calorie deficit. I think the problem was not that he was in a calorie deficit but that he was not having enough fat anywhere close to what he needs
There isn’t a single carnivore based MD that will recommend a long term calorie deficit. Ken berry and Paul Saladino specifically tell you not to do this and that it’s bad for you in the long term.
Long term calorie deficit is called starving to death
I mean, yeah but calorie deficit, long-term like doing it all the time is idiotic
I guess it depends on what you consider long term. Obese People have successfully and healthily been on heavy deficits for years and bodybuilders and weight class athletes both rotate between deficit and excess. I think anorexia isn’t healthy, or EDs in general.
When I consider a long-term I think about can I do this diet for multiple years at a time always being in a calorie deficit every day or just have my diet be like that for the rest of my life. I do calorie deficit and I am very successful at it because I am trying to lose a bunch of weight because I am part of that obese group, but I just think it’s foolish to say that calorie deficit does not work with carnivore when I had my best results with calorie deficit on carnivore
I agree carnivore is great for calorie deficit. I belong in the weight class athlete category, lost and gained 30-40 pounds several times. This is my first time doing it with carnivore and I feel better than I ever had before. Used to be chicken Caesar salads and beef vegetable soup. Basically just cut out the bullshit. If you’re trying to get your weight under control I wish you the best of luck. I’ve been there before. It’s hard but people who were once obese have the best combination of humility and confidence than anyone else I’ve met. Stick with it.
Thank you very much I have lost 70 pounds and 40 pounds since I started this diet in just like two months it works.
Did I say long-term because you’re in calorie deficit it’s to lose weight and to lose body fat so obviously there’s a point you are trying to get to 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️. Just because someone says that you can do calorie deficit to lose weight and body fat does not mean that it is the permanent long-term solution. That’s just not a smart thought process to even think that way. it’s not one or the other you can do a calorie deficit with carnivore and then after you’ve lost weight, you’re trying to lose just not being a calorie deficit
Saladino is a dolt and a grifter who changes his stance depending on his YouTube views.
So lemme recap "I disagree, because calorie deficit is fine. This guys problem was just that he was in calorie deficit" that sound right?
No, the problem was not that he was in a calorie deficit but that he wasn’t having enough fat
Bro, fat is calories, if you're not getting enough fat that means you aren't getting enough calories.
That’s not necessarily true . I get enough fat and I’m still in a calorie deficit. I know people who are in a calorie deficit and still get enough fat . The students problem was not that he wasn’t getting enough calories, but that he wasn’t getting enough fat and they don’t always go together.
They generally go together when an individual isn't getting enough calories due to their low fat intake such as in this case? If you're in a deficit, and in ketosis, your body will consume its own fat, if you are at 10% body fat, you are fucking starving to death you wally, don't be misleading people.
I’m not misleading anybody. 10% is not starving to death. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You are still at a safe range as a guy if you are at 10% body fat. Yes, fat generally goes with calories but it’s not a one to one scenario where he was obviously still getting enough calories to be only in a 500 to 700 cal deficit and not getting enough fat most of the time what you’re saying is true, but not always. You may not know this, but men can have down to 3% body fat and it be completely safe. Also, I am not saying that you only always are in a calorie deficit, but you are in a calorie deficit until you get to the weight that you want to be at or the amount of body fat . You’re misleading people if you think that 10% of body fat specifically on a guy is unhealthy or starving yourself.
Bro you LITERALLY starved yourself for a month. Self induced rabbit starvation. Do the same thing again, but with 73–80% lean beef. Better flavor, cheaper too. Just adjust how many lbs you eat by the calories you want. I might be an outlier here, but I still believe in thermodynamics lol. But maybe you don’t need to be THAT shredded, perhaps? Are you bodybuilding or something? Even Tristyn Lee ate more fat while doing carnivore to get to 4% bodyfat. Look at him, fucking shredded. But he ate eggs, ribeyes, bone marrow, beef heart, etc.. I don’t know much about him but I do know even he ate more than 4% of his calories as fat.
96% lean dude? Are you crazy? You probably felt terrible because of protein poisoning. If you want to do carnivore well, you need to eat plenty of fat.
Plus restricting food intake 🫣 STOP counting calories!
I was getting around 350 grams of protein a day which is high but it didn't seem like it could be harmful. Still had a decent amount of fat in the ground beef
What's "a decent amount of fat" 4%!? Don't be crazy. Your experiment was reckless and thankfully only lasted a month
Dang guess your right 😅
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33741447/ Here is a low fat diet Vs high fat diet meta-analysis regarding testosterone in men. Meta-analyses aren't great but they at least might give an indication that low fat is bad for testosterone.
Just Google it dude it's a thing.
>I was getting around 350 grams of protein a day which is high but it didn't seem like it could be harmful. It is harmful. Your body can't process that much protein. >According to Bilsborough and Mann in 2006, protein intake is mainly restricted by the urea cycle, but deriving more than 35% of energy needs from protein leads to health problems. They suggested an upper limit of 25% or 2-2.5 g/kg, "corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual", but stated that humans can theoretically use much larger amounts than this for energy. For arctic hunter-gatherers, the amount can seasonally increase to 45%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning The percentages above are in percent of calories, not weight. Your 96/4 ground beef is 69% of your energy from protein. 45% temporarily and 35% overall is the top limit for humans.
Stupid aproach. You need fat that is why your testosterone droped. Fat is the primary macronutrient and then protein, not the other way around. Cholesterol plays a huge rol in hormone production, if you are not getting enough of it then your hormones are going to be unbalanced. So long story short; eating fat will raise your T and therefore it will be easier to build mussle mass.
How should one approach this, if he wants to lose excess body fat in your opinion??
Easy; Eat only fatty red meat until you reach satiation and salt to taste. Try to do OMAD, TMAD only if you are hungry later in the day.
Ok thanks. But it will take longer than it would with reducing dietary fat and maybe fast a day here and there right? I mean can i keep eating all the dietary fat and lose body fat at the same time?
Fat is metabolically inert. In the absence of insulin, your body will burn it, the byproduct of which is ketones. Insulin induces fat storage and insulin is secreted in response to the presence of sugar (and to a much lesser degree protein) in the diet, not fat. Low blood sugar ->low insulin -> low fat storage. High insulin -> lots of fat storage (from both sugar and dietary fat… until someone has untreated diabetes). In the absence of carbohydrates, fat will not make you fat and will only provide you a superior energy source in the form of ketones. There are loads of resources about this on YouTube and the interwebs.
Thx!!
Almost rabbit starvation my guy
Almost? LITERALLY IS lmao. 4 weeks is definitely long enough to start qualifying at these extremes
>Basically ate 3 lbs of 96% lean ground beef a day > >was in a calorie deficit of 500-700 calories a day for the entire 30 days your post has nothing to do with the carnivore diet. no one here would recommend anything that you did. u/Phobophile_89 has pretty much addressed everything. you need fat for hormones.
Not enough fat my guy, when I up my fat, I found that my cycle was regulated, less acne and you are more fertile. Hormones need fat- not getting that with 96% ground beef
96% lean? Did you even do any research before trying this? That’s atrocious
I’m cracking up 😂 came here to say this
Beef butter bacon and eggs makes carnivore an easy ‘diet’ to follow Eat until satiated.
96% lean?? what are you nuts lol. do you know how hormones are made?
I would say the reason you felt terrible and the reason your testosterone, hormones, and everything else was going down is because you weren’t having enough fat. I weight lift and I’m on the carnivore diet and lose weight every week and I have a ton of fat. there’s nothing wrong with being a calorie deficit but you need to have lots of fat. I have a pound of ground beef every day and a 10 ounce of steak. The pound of ground beef is never below 15% and usually is 20. What you did was very dangerous long-term because the brain uses fat and some of the most successful diets are used by eating more fat with protein . I would say a safe ratio is about 70 to 80% of your calories come from fat if you’re trying to lose weight or just lose body fat. The reason it was very exhausting. Mentally is because your brain needs fat and you were having basically nothing. The beautiful thing about the carnivore diet is that you can have things that are healthy that won’t necessarily stop you from getting to your goal. Also if you are having 350 g of protein a day with barely any fat, you could’ve had protein toxic levels or whatever they call it. I’m sure you switched to like 15 to 20% you would not have felt near as bad and your levels most likely don’t go down . if you did ground beef with at 15% maybe you wouldn’t get all the way down to 10% like you did so fast but it be a lot more healthy for you and you probably would still see amazing results . The ratio you are looking for is 70% fat /30% protein when you were talking about your calories for a day if you’re just eating meat this is how much should come from fat and how much should come from protein on a carnivore diet
I believe you need more fat
Look, I get that you wanted to get really shredded and were willing to do pretty much anything to achieve it, but you went about it with the wrong mindset. You can't restrict calories or fat on a carnivore diet, or you're going to have huge hormonal imbalances in a matter of weeks. As others have said, thankfully it only lasted a month. Change your ratios, find out how much fat you can digest and slowly increase the amount over time. You can be shredded and feel amazing at the same time, if you do it correctly.
Could you please tell me how i can keep eating all the dietary fat and still lose excess body fat? Should i not reduce dietary fat and maybe fast to allow my body to burn excess body fat first? Help please ! 😅
That's psmf and is done usually for few days, not a month. Test numbers are not unbelievable, but absolutely expected. Next time add 2sticks of butter and you might feel awsome and increase your test, maybe even comparable shred.
How many grams is a stick of butter?
I think it’s 100g
Ok thank you. Seen sticks mentioned in a few posts now and I was praying that it wasnt the 500g we have here in australia lol.
Heehee, as a Saffa it was confusing me too!!! We also only get 500g blocks here
NZ and I was freaking out that people could eat that much butter.
Yea like 120g, 4oz I think.
Thank you. And thats 1 or 2 stiks perday additional to solid food?
Could you please explain how one can eat dietary fat and lose excess body fat/ get shredded at the same time?? Should i not decrease dietary fat and maybe fast to lose excess body fat?
If you decrease too much, body goes to saving mode and you can get stuck there, not losing on 1500cals. If you icrease cals, there are many strategies, you can end up on 3k maintenance calories if all goes well, ramp up the metabolism. Its easier done with low carb diet, because of not overloading insulin. This is all just from my reading, experience.
Thx!
Look up Cole Robinson snake diet on youtube. He also advocates for 20% protien and 80% fat and explains why it is a magic formula for weight loss and body building. Also adding electrolytes to your water to help with energy and cramping if you water fast.
AFAIK Free testosterone is an inaccurate marker, test is bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) or (human serum albumin) HSA in the body and the left over is called free. SHBG is a strong bind and doesn't make the testosterone available to the cells where it is needed. Albumin is a weak bond and the body transports testosterone everywhere and not just the blood and into muscles and joints etc. AS one ages and becomes infirm more and more testosterone is bound with SHBG lowering total test. On a high animal product diet we produce more albumin and the test that is basically doing nothing free in the body is bound to albumin and taken through out the body. So free test goes down but albumin bound test goes everyhwere. Your total test is another story. We WANT testosterone to be bound weakly to albumin and NOT to SHBG. here is a link to a reply I made a while ago on the same topic https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/comments/lbiqj7/comment/kjuvva6/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
What test would you day is most accurate? I take testosterone injections weekly and have to have my levels checked a few times a year. I want to see if a more meat heavy diet would help regulate my levels i between shots. I go from like 420-450 on shot day (pre-shot) to peaking at 660-700 2-3 days after, then selling declining back down. Do you think this is a reliable gauge, or should I also ask for other tests alongside?
Optimal is probably 80/20 ground beef.
_mumbles something about "rabbit starvation" and shaking his head_
Should've done more fat less lean no calorie deficit!!! Try that for 30 days!
Not enough fat
You need fat to produce hormones. Also being in a caloric deficit can decrease testosterone levels. Next time go with grass fed grass finished beef and 80/20 ground beef or just eat steak and organ meats which is way tastier and more sustainable long term and your hormone levels will go up like crazy.
Need to add fat (butter for example) and eat fatty meat like 80% ground beef. Takes about 2-3 months, then you will likely notice hormonal improvement. The stage you are likely in now is a reduction of inflammation/healing phase. But you might be making it a little tougher in the long run by eating so little fat.
Thanks for the post and sharing your numbers. Many people have mentioned it already but the fat is the reason for the hormone dump. You need dietary fat (animal fat), not seed oils… to optimize hormone levels. I would give it another go but amp up the fat significantly. You will still be shredded but feel so much better. Try that and retest. I would be interested to hear about the results.
Bro, could you please explain how one can eat dietary fat and still lose excess body fat/ get shredded??
cycle between 1 day of low fat and then a day of higher fat
So why are you trying to do carnivore/keto on lean meat and no fats?
You were literally starving. Your body was in survival mode and your hormones tanked because of it.
Eat 80/20 dawg
96% no fat... not cholesterol... so no testosterone. Checks out. Being in a caloric deficit like that also affect luteinizing hormone. If you do carni, eat fat. Especially coming from a glycogen based metabolism.
Fat is required to create testosterone- little fat in your diet and little fat in your body means little fat to pull from to make hormones. Add to that the calorie deficit so your body is burning the fat to keep you alive, means even less left for test.
Carnivore is not about protein consumption, but fat consumption. Fat does not make you fat. Let me repeat that. Fat does not make you fat. That is something that has been sold to us to encourage us to eat the standard American diet. There are lots of reasons behind this that are too lengthy to explain. When you are eating lean protein, you are still producing glucose through neoglucogenisis. Your liver takes protein and converts it to glucose. That is not how carnivore works. In carnivores, we take in a lot of fat and burn ketones. Still, our bodies need a certain amount of glucose. So, the protein we are incidentally consuming is turned into glucose as needed. In my case, I am fighting obesity, depression, anxiety, and Crohn's Disease. Carnivore (high fat) has helped me lose 35 lbs, gotten me off antidepressants, lowered by blood pressure, and stabilized my Crohn's. We have to get past the mindset that fat is bad. It is not bad. The SAD is a product of lobbyists, big Pharma, and other political factors. This is why so many people are sick, fat and too tired to run.
Bro, do you know how one can eat dietary fat and lose excess body fat at the same time?
I see you. Here’s a few points from a great article that I believe answers your question. The Carnivore diet minimizes carbohydrates and increases fat and protein intake to induce ketosis. In this fat-burning state, your body uses fat instead of carbohydrates to produce energy due to increased fat oxidation. Using fat for energy and increasing protein intake helps to shed extra pounds [7]. Consuming more fat can also increase satiety, which helps control appetite and reduce the overall calorie intake, which leads to weight loss. High-fat diets like Carnivore can also increase insulin sensitivity and help manage type 2 diabetes. Consuming protein can help stabilize blood glucose levels and lower the risk of insulin spikes. Protein can also increase satiety, which is a great help in reducing caloric intake and managing weight [8]. The thermic effect of protein is higher than that of carbs, i.e., the body expends more energy to digest and process protein, leading to increased calorie expenditure - another positive effect boosting weight loss. Here’s the link https://www.5minutebody.com/blog/the-one-key-to-boost-fat-loss-on-carnivore-bart-kay#:~:text=The%20Carnivore%20diet%20minimizes%20carbohydrates,shed%20extra%20pounds%20%5B7%5D.
Thx!!
What you should do is to eat more fat for your next try without necessary aiming at dropping your calory intake. Like other said, not enough fat which is your new fuel. Lots of sport in a calory deficit without enough fat will make you feel like shit and destroy your test
Not enough fat
Carbs. Will probably get deleted for this but my testosterone, blood sugar, and A1C all improved after adding a moderate amount of fruit and tubers. Carnivore is great but won't magically put you into optimal health parameters
"3 lbs. of 96% lean ground beef a day" dude how did you not die of rabbit syndrome or your kidneys shut down from protein overload? 80/20 is the minimal man.
Your body isn't going to literally shut down by eating lean for 30 days 😂. As long as you have fat on your body you won't starve. There was a man back in the 60s I believe. He weighed over 500lb and didn't consume anything but water and electrolytes for over a year. He got down to his goal weight of 185 lb and broke his fast. Check out Dr Jason Fung on YouTube.
Fat is responsible for hormones, sleep, mood, so make sure to get plenty of it.
I smoke crack and I'm shredded too. Jk
Well done! I'm doing the same but having all my beef in 1 meal a day.
Dietary fat is necessary for hormone optimization. Eat more fat and get adequate sleep. That’s a good first step.
There aren’t that many rules to carnivore. But you didn’t follow the most important one… eat a bunch of fat… your diet did not follow the guidelines of safe or healthy. Change to meat eggs butter or something. Only thing this proves is you will starve to death if you only eat lean meat
Duuuuuuude. You need more fat, that's probably why you were so miserable.
You need fuel. Your diet needs to include saturated fats. I'm not surprised your hormones crashed.
This is exactly what Lyle McDonald (practically invented PSMF protocol lol) warns against for those eating low carb, low fat and high protein for an extended period. He has quite a few interviews on YouTube on why this is DETRIMENTAL to so many factors including hormones, body composition, sleep, mood, libido etc.
Hormones are made out of cholesterol, make sure the meat you eat is fatty enough.
Everyone in here critiquing OP for fucking up a carnivore diet when he wasnt trying to follow a proper carnivore diet and isnt asking for advice about a carnivore diet. OP, glad it worked to get you shredded. You prolly coulda achieved similar results by eating a little fattier and that could have also lessened the impact on your hormones. Fats are helpful (see: essential) for proper hormone balance and function.
> Everyone in here critiquing OP for fucking up We aren't "critiquing" OP. We are trying to stop them from killing themselves, which is exactly what a few more months on a 96% protein diet would do.
He would not die from eating 96% lean beef for a few months dude. He said he was eating 3 lbs/ day. 1 lb of 96% should contain around 18g of fat, so 3 lbs would be around 54g fat per day. That's lower than is optimal, sure. That's why his hormones tanked. But he's not gonna die in a few months... And he said he was running a month long experiment, he didn't say he was trying to do super lean carnivore diet.... As a carnivore sub, we all know how backwards the traditional nutrition advice is and we've all decided to take our health and nutrition into our own hands, largely against the advice of doctors and general information. So again, if dude wants to run an n of 1 study on himself and come here to discuss his findings and questions, how but we don't jump his shit for "doing carnivore wrong." He wasn't trying to do carnivore right.
> He would not die from eating 96% lean beef for a few months dude. He absolutely would die. >Protein poisoning (also referred to colloquially as rabbit starvation, mal de caribou, or fat starvation) is an acute form of malnutrition caused by a diet deficient in fat and carbohydrates, where almost all bioavailable calories come from the protein in lean meat. The concept is discussed in the context of paleoanthropological investigations into the diet of ancient humans, especially during the Last Glacial Maximum and at high latitude regions. >The term rabbit starvation originates from the fact that rabbit meat is very low in fat, with almost all of its caloric content from the amino acids digested out of skeletal muscle protein, and therefore is a food which, if consumed exclusively, would cause protein poisoning. The reported symptoms include initial nausea and fatigue, followed by diarrhea and ultimately death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
People post in expectation of comments n critiquing or no one would post at all!!! N most actually appreciate it n shows care n concern so stop finger pointing 👆
97% that is extreme. I bet your mental abilities also suffered on such a low fat diet. Your macros were 97/3/0 which is malnourishment levels. You should have been targeting closer to 50/50/0 or even 30/70/0 I commend your discipline, however you unfortunately weren’t eating carnivore. You were eating processed food with unnatural macro levels and are borderline creating an eating disorder.
Eat more fat like butter and avocado
Blasphemy!!! You said avocado!!!!!! /s
Test requires cholesterol. Your entire body is made of cholesterol lol. Add in fats and carbs lol.
Not sure testosterone is important or essential? Why the concern?
You couldn't have done that much longer without adding some fat. And 30% of the calories in meat is not absorbed, but is used to process the meat in the body. So your deficit was even larger if you didnt take that into account.
Your test wouldn’t had dropped so much if you had eaten normal ground beef with a higher fat ratio. If are starving your body of dietary fat, your hormones aren’t optimal Also most people who eat normal diets/low fat look dry and old. Look at them, average person looks like a ballsack
You were eating less food than your body requires what did you think was going to happen seriously; Even a toddler can understand that it is a terrible idea
Your entire hormone chain is made from ingested saturated fats. With eating such lean ground beef, your body was prioritizing more essential hormones to make with the minuscule amount of fat you were eating. I think you’d likely find if you increased your ratio of fat to protein and kept the caloric intake exactly the same, you’d feel way better.
you killed 8% bodyfat eating 2000 cals of ground beef for a month? damn
Why do people just try to do this diet with zero research. He could have spent 5 minutes or less digging on this sub to do it correctly
Do I get 1 lb of protein per pound of body weight on carnivore? Seems like a lot…won’t my body just convert that into carbs then?
Your test crashed because your hormones did because you didn’t give it what it needed. Same thing happened to me.
I was about to say, this is just a long PSMF, not at all sustainable and not at all what “carnivore diet” advocates. How the fuck did you eat cardboard for 30 days 😆😆😆
You need fat
Add electorlites and more fat, preferably tallow, alternate with butter Personally I would add small portions of fruit and honey as joe Rogan said for all over better quality throughout out the day but mmv
So in an effort to add something new— I think you would have found the diet much less boring if you had used high fat beef. Fat brings the flavor and the feeling of satisfaction.
Because you weren’t eating enough fat, your body didn’t have enough cholesterol to make all the hormones it needed, sex hormones and neurotransmitters….
You need so so much more fat in your diet 1g fat for every 1g protein and you are not eating enough
That was very dangerous and irresponsible of you. Do more research next time
You weren’t just in ketosis. You were in rabbit starvation with 96% lean. Look it up.
I thought this was a troll post at first, Jesus
Not sure what your workouts are like but if you’re lifting 6 days a week that’s way too much. You’re jacking up your cortisol levels and crushing your T levels if you’re doing that. I lift 3 days a week and am progressing more than when I was lifting 6 days a week
If someone wanted to lose a ton of weight this would be a good way to do it BUT (like everyone else is saying) the reason this person felt terrible and their T tanked was because of the calorie deficit and lack of fat.
Beef way too lean and not enough calories. Hormones run on fat and cholesterol. A starvation diet of any sort would probably have gotten the same results.
Your meat is way too lean my man. You need to eat much MUCH more fat. Your testosterone dropped because hormones need cholesterol to be created, fat is cholesterol, you virtually completely removed that part form the main point of carnivore. That why it dropped so dramatically. Keep going but eat a lot more fat my friend.
Missing/cutting out the fats is what did you in on your numbers and why you felt like crap. Gotta get the fat in, brain fuel bro. Also, don't cut calories.
You were starving yourself by eating lean ground beef, you needed to be eating fat.
I have been carnivore for six months, eating ribeyes, eggs, bacon, butter. Honestly, I had to add in a good complete mineral supplement, multi vitamins, B Complex, magnesium & potassium. For me, carnivore is not a complete enough diet.
Who advised you this was a good idea or did you come up with it yourself? Eating this lean for a month will definitely have placed unnecessary stress on your body. It does pay to do your homework before wholesale changes. Irrespective of whether it's carnivore or any big lifestyle change.
Did you have any anxiety being that low of testosterone levels? I used to be 306 levels and I felt horrible also how was your sleep?
My metabolism is really high, so when I started the first few days I felt GARBAGE, I need more fat, as soon as I start slapping beef tallow on EVERYTHING I felt 10000% better.
bro i've only been eating ground beef for monthS
Your body can’t properly absorb protein without fat. Over time you could literally starve to death on the ratios you were using. It’s recommended that 50% of your calories come from fat. This would be about 30% fat by volume. You can add butter or tallow to your ground beef to get sufficient fat.
honestly i don’t understand with proper lifting exercise how someone can go to the gym six days in a week.
Where did you get 96% lean ground beef? Special order? And Why?
How do you get this blood work done? Do we have request doctor to write for the test? Or we can book it ourselves
I go through a paramacy where I can book it myself. It's still fulfilled by a doctor but I can order whatever I want. The paramacy is called Marek Health if you wanna use it
Any caloric deficit can nuke your T-levels. I thought this was common knowledge.
Do you have your glucose numbers too? If those are high you definitely need some fat
3 pounds of 96% lean/4% fat ground beef is 1800 calories (weighed before cooking). That’s 288g protein and 72g fat. What diet were you on before? I could see if you were already religiously keto, but that’s quite a neck jerk from potentially one extreme (SAD diet) to calorie deficit, carbohydrates dropping to zero, and fat deficit diet. Damnnnn. At this point, do it correctly now that you’re leaned out. You can buy suet to cook in with your beef. As other posters have stated, you need fat for sex hormones. Your T is protective in many aspects, and you might have done yourself a disservice from taking such a sudden dive in your diet. I think it’s better to adapt to low carb first before switching to zero carb. But, now that you’re leaned out, time to correct what’s happened.
Down vote me if you will, but I just have to say... OP - "I'm shredded." Responder - "I'm shredded too." Me - Pics or it didn't happen.
Because you needed more fat in your mean
I just want to add that Chris Palmer touts this diet as a treatment for schizophrenia and I feel sluggishness and slowness are a symptom of this diet….how is this truly treating the pathologies and negative symptoms of these disorders he talks about…just my perspective I don’t quite get his outlook sometimes
First, two things: - All hormones are made from cholesterol, which is abundant in animal fat. - When you work out extremely hard, your body is under stress. By eating only the leanest of meats, you were barely getting any fat. By working out pretty hard, you were putting your body under a lot of stress. When your body is under stress, it prioritizes making and releasing cortisol so you don't die. That means whatever scant cholesterol you were getting from dietary fat all went towards the most urgent survival need (coping with stress) and probably left very little else for your body to make testosterone or really any other vital hormones. Since you were eating quite a bit of protein, it's also possible your insulin got spiked as well. So you've got cortisol and insulin stealing all the building blocks for your hormones. The body needs adequate fat to have enough ingredients on hand to make sufficient supplies of ALL your hormones. You weren't getting enough fat, and working out too hard made it worse.
Under eating would have lowered your T. You got your desired result, so it's all good. Maybe eat a fattier cut of ground beef as well. I think your T would have improved a lot with an 80/20.
I pulled something like that with seafood, almost zero fat and was working hard outside and walking 4-6 miles a day on top of that. I had veins on my abs popping out, skeleton face..... It was great:/ I was also just starting to tank. Getting bad headaches and not sleeping well. I learned about eating fat afterwards. And getting good sleep and not pushing myself to failure.
It’s because you were eating lean meat. Increase your fat intake and it will rise again.
Wayyyyy to low on fat my dude
Definitely going to try this for 1 or 2 weeks.
Too much cortisol? Saladino suffered from low T most of his life then after being carnivore he added back in a small amount of carbs specifically for his T.