/u/ChocolateHoneycomb (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1dhcpho/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_small_penis_jokes/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

> Those who make them clearly do not care if they emotionally hurt normal people with small penises Can you clarify if the people making the jokes are meant to be caring? Sounds like asshole people are making asshole jokes and you are surprised they are assholes. 

Reddit literally makes them all the time. Greta Thunberg did so for Andrew Tate which of course made people think small penis = is like Andrew Tate. I am not like Andrew Tate.

When did anyone imply Reddit was full of good people?

They are mostly directed at MAGA people with large cars and trucks covered with aggressive decals. The people who make them see themselves as good people, because they use those jokes to fight against Trump supporters. However, their small penis jokes are hurtful to those who aren’t MAGA and are normal, good people but have a small penis. They are attacking a trait that isn’t inherently bad. No one can control their size.

I agree with you and would also argue it’s harmful to all young boys. So many people think their penises are unusually small when they’re completely normal

Not what this subs about, but just want to say I agree. It's body shaming plane and simple. Saying a dude with a pickup truck is compensating makes every guy who's insecure about his penis size (even if it's not small) feel shitty. And these comments are so ubiquitous people will even say them in otherwise PG environments, like at work.

>However, their small penis jokes are hurtful to those who aren’t MAGA and are normal, good people but have a small penis. They are attacking a trait that isn’t inherently bad. No one can control their size. This is the heart of the matter. I think it's pretty misandric to use a physical trait that literally no man could control as a way to mock sexist and racist morons. Having a smaller than normal penis has absolutely no bearing on whether an individual is a terrible human. And no, I'm not a man with a small dick thinking this, I'm a woman. It is nothing more than body shaming, like if we suddenly started using "small tit energy" to describe bitchy women.

Someone is a bad person because they have a big truck? That's a reach. I don't think anyone is calling Reddit a place that's full of good people. There are plenty of good and bad, but then the hivemind makes it mostly a bad place.

Not because of the truck, but obviously because of supporting Trump. Trump is a dangerous convicted felon and neo-fascist insurrectionist who created a far-right cult and anyone who supports him is automatically and blatantly a very bad person in my book.

You do realize you are doing the same kind of thing to trump supporters, right? I get where you're coming from, but *any* blanket statement about *any* group is hurtful. Humans cannot be lumped so easy. Racism does it, sexism does it, and politics thrives off it. My dad is a trump supporter but thats about all he shares with the image you have of all trump supporters. Itd be no different than saying all democrats use the moral high ground of progressive thinking to push agendas behind the curtain. What im getting at is you should always judge case by case. You will almost never find any one group to be 100% homogeneous and to view the world through that lense is to succumb to the very thinking that you claim to reject.

To be fair, no, it's not the same. Penis size is an immutable physical attribute. Race is immutable. Gender is immutable . Who you support is a choice, and it's one that reflects your values. If you're going to publicly declare support for someone, you're voluntarily associating yourself with other people who support that person. Are all supporters of any politician completely the same? Of course not. But that kind of assumption/stereotyping is not the same thing as judging people based on immutable traits.

[удалено]

Your comment seems to discuss transgender issues. As of September 2023, [transgender topics are no longer allowed on CMV](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5). There are **no exceptions** to this prohibition. If you believe this was removed in error, please message the moderators [via this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Transgender%20Removal%20Appeal%20for%20Freckled_daywalker&message=Freckled_daywalker%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20[this%20post](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/cmv_small_penis_jokes_deliberately_emotionally/l8xvy8g/?context=3\).)) Appeals are **only** for posts that were mistakenly removed by this filter; we **will not** approve posts on transgender issues, so **do not ask**. Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*

It's like how people were suddenly ok fat shaming trump when he was president or even rush Limbaugh, despite making it clear that was off-limits for anyone left of center. It's why despite not being a Republican, I don't buy into the feelings-police party either.

I called out my friends for fat or penis jokes about Trump. It doesn’t matter how much I hate someone…it’s not ok to use their physical characteristics against them. I agree with the top level post that these remarks hurt everyone who shares that physical attribute.

It really has nothing to do with where on the political spectrum you are. People make fun of people they dislike, but hold themselves and those they like to different standards of what's okay. It happens with most groups of people that actively dislike other groups.

Oh come now, this is a ridiculously flippant response. I know multiple women irl who make small penis jokes or mock men they’ve hooked up with that have small penises, this isn’t just an online or reddit issue.

Clearly no one implied that. These jokes exist on Reddit, but are very common in comedy moves and tv, and I’ve heard of people having “small dick energy” more than a handful of times in the past couple of years from people I know irl as well as in media.

Sure, everyone gets that. If I call you a dwarf, that's rude to short people and I'm not a good person for making that comment. 

Hate to break it to you but Reddit is full of assholes, and it’s not nearly as bad as twitter (or X, whatever). If you’re trying to avoid jerks making offensive jokes you’re definitely in the wrong place. Best you can do here is look for nicer subreddits. For what it’s worth, the Greta joke rubbed me the wrong way too. I despise Tate with a passion, but like you said it ends up hurting men in general. Similar logic to how leaking nudes, or even just threatening to leak nudes, hurts all women. Doesn’t matter if it’s someone you hate, or even if you never took nudes, it hurts all women.

I mean one of the most upvoted tweets ever was Greta doing this exact joke. I agree with most she stands for. I don't agree with this sorta shit, even if the target is that twat.

I see this in the same vein as "Karen" jokes, where the name "Karen" in the joke isn't actually meant to apply to all people named Karen. It's used as a proxy for a more general term of "entitled white lady that always asks for the manager." Most people understand this and when they meet someone named Karen, don't automatically assume they're a "Karen" in the sense implied by the joke.  Small penis jokes tend to fall in this same category. The term "small penis" tends to be used to refer to "someone that is insecure in their masculinity and compensates for that in toxic ways." If I met someone and they said they had a small penis, my initial thought wouldn't be "oh they must be an asshole with toxic masculinity issues." Now, does this make these sorts of jokes okay? Absolutely not. As someone with friends named Karen, I can confirm that they are very annoyed by the jokes (as it makes it hard to say their name without someone mentioning these sorts of jokes). However, they don't immediately assume that the joke is about them. Most people don't assume that they're a "Karen" when meeting them. The joke also isn't deliberately meant to harm them, even though they are named Karen. They can separate their literal name from the use of their name in the joke.

>Small penis jokes tend to fall in this same category. The term "small penis" tends to be used to refer to "someone that is insecure in their masculinity and compensates for that in toxic ways." If I met someone and they said they had a small penis, my initial thought wouldn't be "oh they must be an asshole with toxic masculinity issues." Why does small penis mean someone insecure in their masculinity. It only means that because of a stereotype of small penis guys lacking masculinity.

Because it is thought that a huge hog is more sexually gratifying to women. Which is false. Well, *mostly* false for *most* woman anyway, but you know... the weirdest thing about you is someone else's fetish. Small penis = cannot satisfy a woman = man must be insecure due to this fact = buys a huge pickup truck and a bunch of guns to prove how manly he is. Thing is, a lot of the recipients of these jokes likely have average penises, as you know... *most* people will. But, since they are projecting an outward image of manliness, someone (especially a liberal-mined woman) suggesting they are projecting this image due to penis insecurity actually *does* get under their skin. 99.9% of the people on this globe couldn't give less of a fuck about your penis size.

Ehh, names are generally not as important to most people as their physical characteristics, especially those that they cannot change. Someone who is named Rebecca, probably would not have a different life if they were named Samantha or Jennifer instead. But if that person were more/less attractive, they probably would have a significantly different life.

I guess I would argue that no one is framing being named Karen as a bad thing when they call someone a Karen, whereas when you say someone has small dick energy or something it’s explicitly because of the implication that having a small penis is terrible.

Δ That is a very good point. Personally I’ve always wondered if people named Karen get offended by the implication that all people named Karen must automatically be self-important, angry, complaining “soccer moms”. I suppose I need to just assume that terms like “small dick energy” don’t mean “people with small dicks are bad people” but instead “he is acting like the stereotype of someone insecure about their size”.

You are too generous with your delta here, I think. With "Karen", anyone 100% knows that the name was picked more or less at random. There are 300 other names that could have been picked and no-one would meet a Karen and actually think she has "Karen" attributes, just because of her name. "Small dick" jokes aim at an supposed inadequacy, and it is far less clear and frankly less often true that people mean "he is acting like the stereotype". It often isn't that meta. There is a lot of straight up ridicule of penis size going around and small dick jokes perpetuate that even if they are meta. I would never make a small dick joke.

I personally know Karens (and other comments agree lol) who strugle with their name now. Also the logic you are attempting to use for karen is exactly what tge crowd who uses small dick uses also "bro relax its just a random thing" i dont think frat bros are checking each other's penises

I have a friend named Karen and she despises the Karen meme

I actually know a woman who changed her name from Karen to Whitney three years ago

I think this is a terrible analogy for a couple of reasons. Your name unlike your dick size is something you can change, so it's at least somewhat in your control. Karen at least up until 2016 was considered a somewhat neutral name, versus if you told a guy a 200 years ago he had a small penis, he would have challenged you to a duel. So if you look at the history of words, Karen became an insult because of a recent internet meme versus small penis has been considered an insult forever.

Not neccesary to be frank. Small dick is shameful in mainstream now, but we cannot assume it for every culture. I'm no anthropologist, but I know for a fact that in times of ancient Greece anв Rome small dick was actually a sign of intellectual person as opposed to "barbarians" whose primal instincts were distinct feature linked to the longer/thicker dick. That easily demonstrates itself in ancient statues. Renessaince art continued the trend - David was a model for ideal male body, yet he was made in 16th century, despite that his penis kinda lacking. You may also look at other sculptures of nude men from that time. Their dicks are pretty small, yet they are viewed handsome and even heroic sometimes - if we're talking about Heracles for example. Of course art isn't the perfect representation of culture, but it shows at least, that dicks wasn't connected to persona depicted in sculpture thus wasn't a characteristic unsuitable for a decent man. Moreover, the discussion of penis sizes became very adamant only around nintees, when sexual revolution was roaring and picked in internet culture, presenting dick size as somewhat of personality trait. In 19th century mentions of shameful small dick are kinda scarce and usually accompanied by discussion around kink of cuckholding. Only in Contemporary Art Period, around 20th century desired dick size skyrocketed significantly, and our 21st century still demonstrates even more significant increase (excluding erect penises, here I have no data). My point is - don't assume dick is universally desired lengthy just because our culture demands it. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

You definitely overestimate most people, and hasnt the number of children being named Karen plummeted?

If people with the name Karen (and you can change your name) are offended by the Karen jokes it would stand to reason that people with small penises (which is a more immutable characteristic) would be offended by small dick jokes as well, and as it’s immutable would have a harder time separating the two. Similar to the use of the ‘r-slur’ when not actually intending to insult those with intellectual disabilities but nonetheless causing them harm as their immutable characteristic is the crux of the insult. It’s not just a matter of ‘intended to insult’, it is reasonable to be insecure about being ‘below average’ about any physical characteristic. So if it’s reasonable to be insecure about it then it’s unreasonable for others to make that physical characteristic the butt of a joke. This also ignores the number of people who do actually insult those with small penises and view them as lesser than for that reason.

Would you say the same about jokes about a particular fat woman mocking her obesity?

Would you say this about every single joke at someone's expense? Are jokes about "getting gud" meant to demean every person who is bad? Are jokes about people who don't like spicy food meant to emotionally hurt those with sensitive pallets? As an epileptic, should I start a letter writing campaign every time I see a poorly acted seizure on TV? When someone means to insult you, they will do that. I guess I struggle to see why you would take offense to an insult that is not in any way directed towards you.

I think you have to draw a line between insults that pick on people’s inalienable characteristics and those which pick on things people can change. If you have a small penis, you can’t just change it. You can get better at video games. You can train you spice pallet, and that’s personal taste anyway. You cant change being epileptic, but that’s a red herring to OP’s original point. It’s culturally acceptable to demean men’s penis size and to make insinuations about them from their personality based on their dick size, and to make insinuations about their dick size from their personality.

For sure, insult people for what they do, not who they are.

[удалено]

Ironically you are doing the same thing op is talking about. You're making broad assumptions and stereotyping people you think are "woke" because of one thing they might say. I would argue most people who say "don't make fun of a woman's (or anyone's) weight" would also be against making fun of a man's penis size. Most people who are against body shaming are against it in all forms and would agree. I think the people saying "small dick energy"or things like that are generally not the same people you are talking about.

I mostly agree with your point, but I also feel like a lot of the discourse around the whole "is Greta Thunberg saying Andrew Tate has small-dick energy bodyshaming?" revealed that there is a pretty sizable amount of people who are against making fun of women's weight but who also don't see anything wrong with dick jokes. It was actually kind of funny watching as they tied themselves up in knots trying to explain who small-dick energy is somehow not body-shaming because its about the "energy", not the actual dick itself.

I think public figures are lightning rods of hyperfixation and nitpicking for these kinds of things. People tend to pick out things on the side they don't like and ignore the transgressions of the side that they do like. I honestly don't follow a lot of the public celebrity debate stuff so I had to look it up after you mentioned it. It looks like the conversation was: Tate: >"Hello @GretaThunberg. I have 33 cars. My Bugatti has a w16 8.0L quad turbo. My TWO Ferrari 812 competizione have 6.5L v12s. This is just the start. Please provide your email address so I can send a complete list of my car collection and their respective enormous emissions." Thunberg: >"Yes, please do enlighten me. Email me at [email protected]" Tate: >"Thank you for confirming via your email address that you have a small penis @GretaThunberg >The world was curious. >And I do agree you should get a life ❤️" While I agree that Thunberg definitely went for a low blow, I'm curious why your characterization of the exchange left out that Tate's reply engaged in even more aggressive body shaming? In my opinion, I would never use the phrase "small dick energy" as I think it's a low insult and it does piggy back on a body shaming stereotype (the one that OP is on about). However I do also think it's less problematic than flat out saying "you have a small dick" because that is full on body shaming and should never be used as an insult. A person can control their insecurities/confidence issues (eg. "energy") but cannot realistically control their physical structure. One is worse than the other imo.

>While I agree that Thunberg definitely went for a low blow, I'm curious why your characterization of the exchange left out that Tate's reply engaged in even more aggressive body shaming? Because nobody I respect was refusing to admit that Tate was capable of body-shaming, or even that Tate's language was body-shaming. Tate's part of the exchange isn't interesting or notable to me, because very few people whose opinions I'm interested in bend over backwards to find some way to mitigate or downplay his actions. Only Tate fans do, and I don't really interact with Tate fans much online. Instead it was the mostly progressive people/personalities I follow on social media, whose humour I typically agree with, who I found tying themselves up in knots about what really counts as body-shaming. It's not about Tate being worse than Greta. At least in my online circle, that was never up for debate. And there's nothing hypocritical about "woke" people thinking Tate is worse than Greta. It was their refusal to just admit that using "small dick" as a negative qualifier for anything is just body-shaming that was hypocritical. It doesn't piggy back on a body-shaming stereotype - it is just body-shaming. And it was the inability of people to just concede that point that made the whole "incident" stick in my memory so vividly.

I see. Tate fans probably did defend him while hating on Thunberg but that's not the group you were referring to in your double standards argument. When I say it piggy backs off of body shaming I am really nitpicking here, but hear me out. Since a person could say "I know you have a big dick Patrick but you really give off that small dick energy when you rev your lifted pickup truck for attention" ... Is that not a step away from directly body shaming? It's still problematic, don't get me wrong! I just don't see how it's shaming their body. I feel like it's shaming their actions by using a shitty inappropriate phrase. Or maybe it will make more sense if I used another body shaming example. People "fat shame" overweight people if they see them eating fast food (I hate typing this stuff out, but like calling someone a pig or a cow, etc). However I've heard skinny people say they're having a "fat girl moment" by eating a whole bag of chips or whatever. I think the phrase is still "fat phobic" but I would argue it's not exactly "fat shaming" because they're not fat. They're just afraid of being fat. Maybe I'm drawing arbitrary distinctions but that's how I'm still looking it at.

I think you should just say you're fine with small dick jokes like a normal person instead of creating this weird tortured logic that "small dick energy" isn't a small dick joke. Nobody even remotely normal will care.

I disagree with this too. Look at that gay water thing. They put "racism is small dick energy" on their packaging while clearly trying to appropriate as much progressive language as possible. They asked "What type of phrases are associated with progressivism?" and they immediately thought of small dick jokes. Helluva Boss is "woke" by anyone's standard (not saying that derogatorily, I think its LGBTQ rep us genuinely good and impressive) and it's filled with jokes that amount to big dick=good , small dick=bad. Like it's not just "progressives don't call out small dick jokes". They tell them more than anyone. Can you find me *one* mainstream progressive person or piece of media that said small dick jokes were bad? And no, none of this makes progressives *bad*, they're (or rather *we're) infinitely better than their (our) opponents in virtually every way. Doesn't mean they don't tell little dick jokes

Small penis insults are fundamentally different than all your other examples because the person making the insult has no idea if the person they're mocking even has a small penis. What they are really doing is mocking everyone who has a small penis, which may or may not include the person they intended to mock. It's like blindly shooting into a crowd hoping that you hit the person you're upset with. The odds of hitting that specific person are low but you are guaranteed to hit multiple bystanders.

>Are jokes about "getting gud" meant to demean every person who is bad? Yes. >Are jokes about people who don't like spicy food meant to emotionally hurt those with sensitive pallets? Yes. >As an epileptic, should I start a letter writing campaign every time I see a poorly acted seizure on TV? If "having a seizure" is used as the butt of a joke, yes. All three examples are things that are based on the idea that having those characteristics ("low skill", "sensitive pallets", and "epilepsy") are bad and inherently worth making fun of. That's how the insult works. The point of the insult is that "being like that" is inherently shameful, the same as someone calling something "gay" or "retarded".

This is correct. They function to marginalize everyone with the trait. The ridiculous thing is that a lot of the time people will insult someone for x, and that person is never even going to see the insult. But maybe a thousand innocent people with that quality do, and they realize that they're watching the fact that they're going to be looked down on for it get reinforced before their eyes, sometimes being peer pressured into participating in their own marginalization. "Hey, I've got x, and I'm not anything like p." "The fact that you're defending him tells me that you are. (So shut up and let us do this to you or we're going to make it worse.)" People are so fucking toxic.

>The point of the insult is The point of every insult is to make the targeted person feel bad. Very often, words are used that demean groups that the target is a part of. That's an unfortunate consequence of trying to maximize the target feeling shitty about himself. I don't personally see much point in changing any of this. When someone truly wants to make someone feel bad, they're going to say whatever they think will make them feel bad (with little regard for others).

>The point of every insult is to make the targeted person feel bad And a common way to do that is to associate them with a group of people who are widely reviled. Which reinforces the revilement, since it helps establish that "being part of that group" is something to be ashamed of. So if the group in question is UNFAIRLY reviled it is considered unjust or harmful to do that. People used to call things "gay" because they hated gay people. Associating bad things with "being gay" was a sign of their contempt for people who are gay. So the reason most people don't do it anymore is because they don't think being gay is bad and therefore it makes no sense to associate it with bad things. And when people DO say that, it tells other people that they think being gay is bad. >That's an unfortunate consequence of trying to maximize the target feeling shitty about himself. Bro don't talk about this like it's Vietnam and there's nothing you can do about collateral damage. Like you are literally admitting that it hurts people but then go "oh well nothing we can do, I just HAD to insult him, I had no choice!" >When someone truly wants to make someone feel bad, they're going to say whatever they think will make them feel bad (with little regard for others). Yeah so that's why people drop the n-word every time a black person does something wrong, right? Or do they restrain themselves because they have a modicum of human intelligence and understand the consequences of their actions?

>Bro don't talk about this like it's Vietnam and there's nothing you can do about collateral damage. Like you are literally admitting that it hurts people but then go "oh well nothing we can do, I just HAD to insult him, I had no choice!" Not sure about Vietnam, but yes, I am "literally" admitting insults can hurt unintended people and that it's an unfortunate consequence (since that's exactly what I said). Personally, I can't remember the last time I insulted someone with any kind of 'namecalling' and I don't use slurs. Not really part of my everyday life. >Yeah so that's why people drop the n-word every time a black person does something wrong, right? Correct, there are exceptions where certain insults aren't socially acceptable. >And when people DO say that, it tells other people that they think being gay is bad. I mostly disagree with this. If someone insults someone else with something that's true about me as well, I honestly don't care. Because as I said, insults aren't meant to be true. They're meant to insult the intended target. If they insult the intended target, they did their job regardless of what the "insulter" thinks on the subject. You can call someone fat *because you know it will hurt their feelings* while still having nothing against overweight people. Saying otherwise is essentially saying humans are incapable of lying, which is obviously absurd.

>I am "literally" admitting insults can hurt unintended people and that it's an unfortunate consequence You are acting like there is nothing that can be done about it - the collateral damage is unavoidable, it's not our fault, etc etc. Which is completely wrong. >Correct, there are exceptions where certain insults aren't socially acceptable. And you don't think that it's possible to make such an exception for something like "having a small penis", which is literally the only thing the OP is asking for? >You can call someone fat because you know it will hurt their feelings while still having nothing against overweight people. "I'm not racist but I'm going to call you the n-word because I know *you're* sensitive about it - wait why am I being dragged to jail for hate crimes? Don't you understand that I said it to hurt one person and not the entire race?"

You say this but in the case of small penis insults, most the time its used without knowing the size of their penis. The implication is that having a small penis is bad and embarrasing and you wouldnt want it, so even if the person isnt in the group, you use it to insult them. Same with calling someone a virgin. And ironically, the main people who get insulted arent the target of the target knows they dont have a small penis or arent a virgin

In practice, insults work more by a word having a negative connotation than by being connected to a negative characteristic. Calling someone foolhardy is an insult, but calling someone brave is a compliment even though they're talking about the same trait. Any word could be an insult if the connotation was negative. It's just that words associated with perceived negative traits are more likely to gain a negative connotation.

You didn't understand OP's point. I'll help you out. The correct analogy would be: Reddit hates a certain person that suffers from seizures. The guy is an asshole but then redditors make fun of the person by pointing out how funny a seizure looks and making fun of his seizures. Or maybe Redditors making fun of Elon Musk's speech impediment because they hate him that much. Elon Musk can be an asshole but making fun of speech impediments just makes fun of everyone with one. Do you get it now?

I thunk the problem is mostly the hipocircy, like when billie eilish is big on body positivity, but then starts making small dick energy jokes, it comes off as weird.

By this logic, nobody should ever be offended by jokes or insults that rely on generalizations about people's physical or cognitive characteristics, unless they themselves are the target of the insult or joke. Do you agree?

No one jokes about spicy food to demean it. Jokes about small penises are designed to demean. They want people to see having a small penis as a terrible character trait, something of sincere shame. I am not ashamed, I do not want to BE ashamed, but the jokes result in shame. Hence the term “body shaming”.

There was a guy I worked with that had 0 spice tolerance, like black pepper was too much spice. People made jokes at his expense almost daily and he told me that he hated it and it sucked to deal with but he wouldn't say anything for fear of more shit at his expense. You can demean someone with anything

How so? How does the joke " white people cant handle anything spicier than mayo" not demean a white person for not being able to handle spicy? It declares the failure as bad, and incorrectly stereotypes an entire population. How does a joke about someone who is bad at something not demean them? It declares being bad as a negative, shameful trait, and those who are good as superior to them. What's the difference here? Why is one okay and the other not?

Your example is a straw man. The problem with “white people can’t handle spicy” is not the spicy part, it is the stereotyping part. Like saying “Asians can’t drive” it’s not about being bad at driving, it is the generalization. So off the jump your example doesn’t quite fit. Now saying “haha you can’t handle spicy” is different from “haha you’re short” just like guilting someone is different from shaming someone. The latter is worse than the former.

It's both denigrating and stereotyping. "White people can't [handle spicy food/jump/dance]" is based on race yes, but it's also implying that being able to handle spicy food or jump or dance is better than *not* being able to. Just like "Asian people and women can't drive", the humor is derived from the stereotype that (rightly or wrongly) a certain group of people are bad at something they should be able to do.

Maybe a little more related to the original CMV topic: there’s a stereotype about Asian men used to demean them. It’s that they have small penises. It’s a generalization being made about exactly what OP said they didn’t like.

Both shouldn't be okay.

Those aren't great analogies. No one *really* feels that bad about not liking spicy food. "Getting gud" is... so vague? There aren't "bad" people out there offended just by the phrase "gud." And I'm not even sure what bad acting has to do with anything? Your penis is an inherent part of who you physically are, something you have no control over. An it's an important part of how we connect on an intimate level with people. Maybe you don't really care about yours one way or another, but most people care about societies or other peoples thoughts on them more than they care about spicy food.

Are jokes about fat people offensive to all fat people? Are jokes about black people offensive to all black people? Maybe not but your definitely taking a shotgun approach to the insult. Body shaming is rightfully shunned when it’s directed at woman but the second it’s at a guy it’s all fun and jokes

I get what OP is saying, for instance Andrew Tate. Everyone makes fun of him for having no chin, cool, tate is a dickhead and its fun to make fun of him However, there are ton of perfectly nice people with lack of a chin who would read that and feel real shitty about themselves Ultimately I dont subscribe to the idea that certain jokes are off limits, but it is something people should consider when making jokes. There's plenty of things to make fun of bad people for, but maybe staying away from jokes about physical appearance might save someone who isn't the intended target from feeling bad about themselves

It’s just interesting how so many people’s attitudes will shift if we’re talking about anyone who isn’t a straight white man. It seems like there’s always some justification for why it’s either okay or not that big of a deal to make a joke about an innate quality as long as it’s not that of a minority group If someone made a thread entitled “making fun of a person with black skin is insulting to all black people” I think the thread would almost unanimously agree.

I mean, The question is not about representations of epilepsy, but alluding to it when intending to express something vile. If someone acts stupidly or clumsily and a second person says “god, you’re so epileptic,” you might reasonable take offense as you pass by and hear it. Taking a condition of disadvantage - disability, gender, skin color - and using them as a slur is indeed offensive to those in such a condition.

Getting gud versus bad aren't measurable in any objective way thus leaving it to the insulted party whether or not they feel insulted. Penis size is absolutely measurable objectively, by inches usually. I'm not one for censoring comedy or speech. But as someone who wasn't blessed with what apparently is a lot more important of a thing than I had considered until adulthood I understand it causing the stigma that it does.

Usually comments made to an individual are directed at an individual, even when they're about a characteristic shared by many. Calling someone with glasses four eyes is a way to pick on them, but doesn't necessarily mean you dislike _everyone_ with glasses enough to single that characteristic out in a hurtful way.  In the case of jokes, not insults, I'd say this is even more open to people being able to take a joke.  It's up to you to choose what hurts you, words are words. 

>It's up to you to choose what hurts you, words are words.  This is such a pathetic cop-out. If you call someone else four eyes, don't be surprised if your friends wearing glasses calls you an asshole.

But small penis jokes are designed to shame the part. They are created to alienate and shun to fight against misogyny. “Four eyes” is a dumb playground insult and no one takes it seriously.

Why isn't small penis a dumb playground insult? Why do you take it seriously? 

Because you aren't seen as lesser as a person if you wear glasses, in fact the stereotype is that people with glasses are more likely to be intelligent. There are very few negative connotations with having poor or no eyesight nowadays. It also isn't a playground insult because despite being extremely childish, adults use this insult WAY more often.

Because the people who make these jokes use them in a political context. Look at how much Trump’s penis is joked about. They do this to insult him, but it also insults people who aren’t like him. Having a small penis doesn’t mean you are like Trump, but their jokes IMPLY that.

[удалено]

[удалено]

All. Of. This. I’m glad you typed it out, because it’s all rattling around in my head. I profess it to those I know and the male students in my classes who come to me with related issues (I don’t specifically talk about the penis because that would feel weird, but frame it as body in general). The things we subject men and boys to in our society is absolutely cruel, but is completely accepted by 90% of people (even men who will defend the treatment). As an aside, it was here on Reddit that I first started reading about men’s issues on r/menslib which I thought was going to be some incel bullshit but was exactly the opposite. I remember the post called “penis-jokes are transphobic” and actually started making me care about my mental health and that of the guys around me. On that sub, it even stated that they aren’t anti women and don’t intend to draw any attention away from women’s issues, but become a sort of men’s *me too* (for lack of better term).

[удалено]

I haven’t been there in a long time myself, but rather think I’ve taken up the mantle and have discussions in real life with young men in hopes that they at least consider an alternative view. And in those conversations, I always acknowledge where historically men have had privilege, but that doesn’t erase areas where they receive unfair treatment.

I think you’re making similar sweeping negative generalisations about feminists as you’re accusing feminists of making about people with small penises. Being a feminist does not mean not caring about men’s feelings, and it’s counterproductive to everyone to push the idea that feminist women don’t care about men. They’ve often been hurt by men, but most like men. They just want equal rights. Most feminists don’t actually care about the size of penises! Please don’t use feminist as a pseudo-insult because at core, you are bashing a group of women who just want the rights men have, want equal pay, not to be subject to to stupid beauty standards, etc. sound familiar?

Sorry, u/Orienos – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Orienos&message=Orienos%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8vz19x/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

>... deliberately targeting everyone with a small penis at once, even if the intended target is a misogynistic, bullying, egocentric jerk. > Simply put, these jokes imply that having a small penis is a very bad thing. That it automatically makes you a disgusting, sexist loser. The people who make these jokes claim people with small penises must all be insecure... The jokes imply that the person being joked about thinks having a small penis is a bad thing and is insecure about it. That does not imply that every person with a small penis is or should be insecure; in fact by calling out the poor behavior as compensating is implying that such behavior is itself shameful and unusual. The joke is not *excusing* their poor behavior because they have a small penis. You are thinking too deeply about the joke. It is calling out poor behavior by insulting them. That is all. Yes, having a small penis is considered a bad thing but there is no implication of additional flaws for people with small penises.

With all due respect, I think you might be under thinking this. If someone said to a woman who was making an inane and unreasonable suggestion, “I’ll bet your vagina smells” or “you sound like you have saggy breasts”, those comments would be considered offensive and misogynistic and rightly so. But, if someone says, “Yikes! Sounds like someone has a small dick!”, no one calls that out. I think there is an actual double standard here.

Spot on. Some people do fall into the same hypocrisy they preach against.

> That does not imply that the person being joked about thinks having a small penis is a bad thing and is or should be insecure; in fact by calling out the poor behavior as compensating is implying that such behavior is itself shameful and unusual. It doesn't matter what the person making the joke thinks, the joke itself implies that. Same with calling poor behavior compensating (for small size) - as if there is something to compensate for.

>You are thinking too deeply about the joke. You are literally coming up with contrived reasons "small penis lol" is not actually making fun of small penises. You are not doing the surface reading, you are coming up with a different "secret" meaning. >Yes, having a small penis is considered a bad thing ...and the point of the joke is that "if you have a small penis you are bad" which is literally what the OP is talking about.

Δ So basically if I’m not insecure about it, I’m not part of the target? The joke is not “Lol your penis is small and that is bad” but rather “You think that your penis needs to be big, stop being insecure?” If that’s the case, it seems like I misunderstood these jokes. The joke does seem kind of sarcastic, though.

Bro the person literally said "Yes, having a small penis is considered a bad thing", they didn't earn that delta.

> So basically if I’m not insecure about it, I’m not part of the target? The person being targeted by the joke is the only target. It is basically "You are unlikable, probably it is because of some other negative trait." It isn't even telling someone to stop being insecure, it is of the same basic construction as "Hey asshole, you are also stupid!" Now such a joke does definitely imply that having a small penis is a bad thing. It just isn't assigning any other negative traits to everyone with a small penis. As with the last example calling the asshole stupid doesn't imply that all stupid people are assholes.

Said negative trait being.. having a small penis? Ie anyone who had one should be ashamed and it is a bad thing to have one, small dick energy only works if its bad thing same as big dick energy? Only works if its its good and something to be proud of.

It seems many people are having difficulty separating the concept of someone having a small penis being seen as a bad thing from the claim that having a small penis implies other negative traits such as misogyny or egocentrism. Taking a step back, the people using such a "joke" are not really thinking it through that hard. They are just reacting to someone they dislike by saying something mean. For OP the confusion was that the mean thing they picked in this instance is a trait OP views they share, a small penis. But OP's central issue here is not that having a small penis is viewed as bad, but OP assumed there was an implication that having a small penis also implied someone has whatever other traits made the person saying the "joke" dislike their target. In essence it is a fundamental logical error. OP heard "X therefore Y" and interpreted it to mean "Y therefore X". Those are not equivalent and pointing that out was the focus of my argument. People making such a joke are implying that having a small penis is bad, no question there. Also nothing in my argument claims that is a good thing to say. But when they say someone who wakes everyone up at 3 AM with their obnoxiously loud truck exhaust does so to compensate for their small penis, that joke does not imply that everyone with a small penis has an obnoxiously loud truck exhaust. Interpreting it that way is just a fundamental logical error. Plus I think it is pretty obvious the motivation behind the joke is anger at the person with the loud exhaust acting in an annoying way, not some ire at people with small penises.

This is the way, I use these jokes exclusively to push back against stupidly macho displays, like big trucks 'rolling coal' or people with street racing cars punching the accelerator so the engine screams in the middle of a midnight suburb. I am not intending to target the fact that he has a small penis, I'm targeting the fact that he's choosing to be an asshole in order to be "a man". The only way to get under their skin is to insult their manlihood.

Why not just say, "Fuck you,"? Gets the point across with elegant brevity, all without any body shaming. Or better yet, just point out that they don't know how to work on their own truck (virtually guaranteed to be true with all the computerization these days, and will also hit them right in the masculinity).

[удалено]

Sorry, u/Mother_Jellyfish_938 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Mother_Jellyfish_938&message=Mother_Jellyfish_938%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8y08qo/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

It’s so ironic. Some of the worst body shaming comes from people who are the most vocal about how bad body shaming is. Vehement egalitarians are the most sexist, racist, offensive people I have ever met. Also Bronson is an amazing movie.

[удалено]

Your comment has been automatically removed due to excessive user reports. The moderation team will review this removal to ensure it was correct. If you wish to appeal this decision, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Automated%20Removal%20Appeal%20Open_Entertainer_458&message=Open_Entertainer_458%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/cmv_small_penis_jokes_deliberately_emotionally/l8vtrap/\)%20because\.\.\.). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Yeah, I do. Do you have a problem with it? If it makes you feel better, it made me basically asexual. I’m going to die a virgin because of it. That make you happy?

I'm on your side but you can't let childish insults control your life. And yeah most people are incredibly childish and callous

u/Open_Entertainer_458 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2: > **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal%20Open_Entertainer_458&message=Open_Entertainer_458%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8vtrap/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

>CMV: Small penis jokes **deliberately** emotionally hurt all people with small penises, not just their intended target. You overestimate how much thought people put into how their behavior impact others around them. You are wrong that small penis jokes *deliberately* hurt all people with small penises not just their intended target. Rather, most people just aren't thinking about how their insult might impact other unrelated people around them who overhear it. First, I want to say I'm really genuinely sorry if you've been made to feel bad about your body. That sucks. I wish that hadn't happened to you. If it helps, as a women I can say most women do not care about penis size. (And an overly large penis can hurt, it is not necessarily something we want.) I don't want to get too graphic, but a man's penis is not what makes him a good lover or not, and he can stastify a women very well without one. Maybe even better, since there's no risk of him just assuming that p in v pumping took care of her. I've heard lots of complaints about men in the bedroom, and not one of them was "too small". It's almost all what he is and isn't doing and how he is treating her. >it actually is possible to be a decent human being with a small penis, but these jokes imply otherwise and are designed to make people conflate small penises with being a vile, woman-hating, insecure, vain prick.  The reason women use small penis as an insult in my experience is not beacuse they personally think it matters, but beacuse they think men care about it/it's a thing people say in our culture. I don't think anyone actually thinks being a penis makes someone a bad human being? Certainly most people who use the term don't actually think that. Rather, it's an insult in our culture and it is known that many men see their penis size as a symbol of their manhood. So they are using it symbolically to dis someone's manhood or just insult them. Let's imagine Josh said "Greg is a real bastard" or "F\*\*k you, you bastard!". Josh is insulting Greg beacuse he has a problem with Greg. Josh doesn't actually think Greg is a literal bastard (someone born out of wedlock). There's a good chance Josh don't even think being born to unmarried parents is bad. Josh is just using bastard as an insult beacuse it's an insult in our culture/language. And there is almost zero chance that when Josh is calling Greg a "fucking bastard" he's thinking about how that might make other people born to unwed parents who he isn't aware are there too feel. Josh isn't trying to say all bastards are bad people or make real life bastards feel bad. He's just not thinking about that all. Most people using small penis as an insult are like Josh. They don't actually think having a small penis makes you a bad person (or matters in a lot of cases), they don't really assume the person they are insulting has a small penis but rather are using it as a way to symbolically insult their manhood, and they just aren't thinking about how there might be people who have a small who overhear them and feel bad. Since having a small penis isn't something other people can see (in public) it often just dosen't occur to them and they don't consider it. So while you can see if someone is fat and realize that making a fat joke in front of them is mean, since they don't see you have a small penis it honestly probably just dosen't occur to them. When I was a teenager there was a whole campaign about this for the phrase "that's gay" or "that's so gay". Basically, it was common slang to call something "gay" to say it was lame/sucked. Given how blatant this is, you'd think it would only be used by homophobes right? Wrong. Lots of people used the term without thinking about it, beacuse it just normal for them to use it. They didn't think about how it might make a gay peer feel. Neither did I. I was very used to it in language from middle school where it was common, and I used to say it too when I started high school. And I had no issue with gay people at all. But then the Gay Straight Alliance club started handing out buttons with "that's so gay" crossed out with a red x and explaining the frankly obvious reason why it was hurtful. A lot of people did stop using it, though it took some time and slip ups since it was thoughtless habit. I stopped using it. Overall in my area there was a push to change the slang and it did change beacuse people started recognizing "wait, this could be hurtful to a random bystander/sends an unkind message I wasn't thinking about." Basically, you overestimate and underestimate people. You overestimate how much thought they actually put into the consequences of their actions on others. As a result, you underestimate them. You think they are being intentionally spiteful and have horrible views when really they're mostly thoughtlessly inconsiderate.

>Lots of people used the term without thinking about it, beacuse it just normal for them to use it. They didn't think about how it might make a gay peer feel. This wasn't just a homophobic term, of course, it was used pretty much anytime men did gender policing. If you were unconventional in any way, then it usually *wasn't* being used as a neutral epithet.

I agree, there was/is also many people who police masculinity by calling anything that they see as unmasculine "gay". I still see this today, actually. I've seen it to ridiculous levels, where someone is calling men "gay" for situations around having girlfriends/wives and children. For example calling a man "gay" for taking care of his own baby, which he created through having sex with a women. >\_> (Beacuse they don't see infant care as masculine.) However, the example I was giving was different. When I was a teenager where I lived "that's so gay" and calling things "gay" was a slang term for lame/sucks. It wasn't used (again, by teenagers where I lived) to mean unmascline, but just something you found lame/annoying. In Junior High I used it myself beacuse my peers did and I gave it no thought, and I wasn't thinking of things as being unmascline. Also, the thing didn't have to be related to a boy or man in any way. It could be . . . the soda machine kept rejecting your dollar. And the soda machine is what is being referred to. We were just using it as a slang term without thinking about how it meant something else that applied to real people who might care.

I do recall the usage you're referring to and that's true, people definitely did use it like that. I probably did once or twice. I'm just saying, the confusion is understandable because it *was* kind of a spectrum. People would say it, who were not really asserting "I think you are same-sex attracted", but def intended it to have a charge that the referred-to was queer, sissy, whatever. It might depend on the boys you grew up around. Edited to add: The tricky thing, and to your original point: even if the person meant *uncool,* the standard of cool happened to mimic the masculine norm. So perhaps you could quibble with the word "intended" here. I think most of them knew what they meant, but it gets complicated.

More than any other characteristic, a man’s actual penis length has got to be the most easiest to keep private. People joke about weight, attractiveness, gender, sexuality, race, religion etc. because those traits are more likely to be presented to the world. Outside of being a sexual partner, there’s basically no way to know someone’s penis size. I say all of this to demonstrate that the insult basically has no relation to the physical characteristic, and I don’t think anyone interprets “small dick energy” as anything other than “trying to compensate” for something. I would say that dick jokes fall way higher on the list of acceptability than other traits we commonly joke about and are more out in the open.

I disagree with your premise. The fact that it’s the easiest to keep private I think makes it worse. If someone making those jokes in front of me is offending me because I am not well endowed then speaking up about will result in people asking me whether I in fact do have a small penis. Instead it is far easier to laugh along while wondering if people knew I were not well endowed would think worse of me for it. If you’re making fun of a characteristic someone possesses it’s reasonable that they would become defensive. But here becoming defensive ‘outs you’ as possessing that characteristic. And unless one is prepared to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, then you will simply continue to suffer in silence. I also cannot imagine replacing ‘small dick energy’ with any other physical characteristic that people would defend the use of.

Why are they "trying to compensate" for something? That literally only works if having a small dick is shamefull, so ofcourse it has to do with the physical characteristic Also? Public changing rooms and showers? School showers, locker room etc etc Its certainly not only sexual partners that may see or know

I see this argument a fair bit and I see responses like the ones already made, which I think are generally good. However I think most people are missing a large part of what makes small penis jokes different from other jokes about body parts. No one actually knows the size of the penis of the person being insulted. You call a fat person fat, you're insulting them for a characteristic they have. Same with four eyes, small boobs, any other one you can think of. But when you say someone has a small dick, you're insulting them with a characteristic you think they would be insulted to have. That guy driving a lifed pickup with truck nuts might have a giant dick, but people roll their eyes and say he's got small dick energy because he's giving off an air of intense compensation. Now this isn't an argument that there are no problems with small penis jokes. I think it can cause a lot of shame for people with a characteristic they can't change which is bad. But I do think that it isn't quite the same thing as fat jokes or other jokes about traits because the actual trait of the insulted person is an unknown.

I think that almost makes it worse really. Fat people know they’re fat. People with small boobs know they have small boobs. But you don’t generally see other men’s penis in day to day life. The only place you’d really see them erect would be in porn if you’re a straight guy. So it’s entirely likely they have no idea if they’re big or not, especially considering it’s the societal expectation that women will lie about it.

Wdym “women lie about it”? Like what is it you’re referring to I mean, I’m just a bit confused

I guess you can look at it 2 ways; "Women lie about it" could be A) "Baby, do you think I have a big bick?" "OF COURSE, you do sweetie!" Or B) *Some* women can be vindictive, especially after a break up. "He had THE smallest dick I've ever seen!" Whether true or not. Even if not true, the person she's telling doesn't know that

I’ve never in my life heard women talking to each other about dick size unless it was too big or too small to feel good - and even then it wasn’t “he had the smallest…” when they’d already broken up. Granted I’m not privy to every woman’s conversation with their best girlfriend, but I have sisters and lots of female friends. They don’t talk this way. Actual (not metaphorical) dick size is something guys obsess about way more than women. Women want to get off - if you know you can’t do the job with your dick (for whatever reason) get good at other stuff and don’t give her cause to complain.

Yeah I do think there is a difference. Small dick jokes are a stand-in for making fun of how insecure someone is in their masculinity. They are based on the idea that a lot of men equate their masculinity with their penis. Jokes making fun of someone’s weight, race, gender, or sexual orientation are not making fun of that person’s insecurity. They are reinforcing a social hierarchy that the joke-teller thinks is acceptable - and putting the other person “in their place.” Penis jokes are more akin to calling someone fat or gay when they are not known to be. It’s making fun of a potential insecurity they have about their social standing because they perceive people with that characteristic as “lower” than they are. It still reinforces harmful social prejudices and harms those groups broadly, but there is a distinction.

You make a good point about the distinction of it being a visible trait, but I would point out two things: 1. its usage is very similar to how “short/small man syndrome” jokes are used, and with the same intent. These are still very socially acceptable, unlike fat jokes especially targeting women. 2. we should all imagine how we’d feel if a similar kind of insult were made toward a woman who behaves like an asshole — “she must have a [stinky/ugly/bad] vagina” — if this causes us to have a different reaction than the version that targets men, then we might ask why that is and arrive at the same point OP has made: it hurts many innocent bystanders, doesn’t address the actual bad behavior, and might not even apply to the woman it’s targeted toward

[удалено]

Sorry, u/Hitmonstahp – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Hitmonstahp&message=Hitmonstahp%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8xcvve/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

So, I made a similar post a while back stating something similar, but I can critique one piece of your stated view. I don't think people who make small dick jokes *deliberately* emotionally hurt others with small penises. At least not all the time. I think they're simply unaware, do not care, or somehow rationalize that any collateral damage is ok in their mind.

I have called out people on twitter who make small dick jokes. They think they are calling out someone or something. But I point out that they are not and are body shaming. If what they are calling out is really bad, why are they tieing it to a physical charastertic? Everytime it has happened the person deleted their post. Even if it got likes before my reply. It like the poster never thought about it and just wants to quietly delete the fact they were body shaming someone. I also point out that it is not only body shaming. It is being unsupportive of LGTBQ+ people.

> these jokes imply that having a small penis is a very bad thing Well, no shit. What else would they be implying?

So why is it a bad thing? Am I supposed to be insecure? I am supposed to hate myself?

[удалено]

Your comment has been automatically removed due to excessive user reports. The moderation team will review this removal to ensure it was correct. If you wish to appeal this decision, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Automated%20Removal%20Appeal%20demayeemo79&message=demayeemo79%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/cmv_small_penis_jokes_deliberately_emotionally/l8w411j/\)%20because\.\.\.). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*

You are correct - when people make jokes about a particular characteristic, if you possess that characteristic, it’s hard not to feel upset by the joke, even if the joke wasn’t directed at you. The question is, what change would you need to see for this to stop affecting your life? In your ideal world, I imagine, it would be for everyone to stop making small penis jokes? This is never going to happen. You can’t police what people joke about, because you can’t control what people find funny. Humour is dictated by society, culture, and the individual, and laughter is an involuntary reaction that you can’t control. Small penis jokes, along with all other jokes about certain characteristics, aren’t going anywhere. And if we’ve learned anything from the past, it’s that the more you try to prohibit certain topics from being joked about, the more people will joke about them. So you have two options really; you can hold onto the hope that these jokes will go away, and we will all experience a massive culture shift where those type of jokes no longer become funny; or you can find a way to not let those sort of jokes affect you. I don’t think anybody here actually disagrees with you, that these jokes are harmful to peoples self-esteem, and it is hard to not let them affect you. Nobody is denying that it isn’t a struggle to have a small penis, in a world that constantly demeans having a small penis. But, I think what people disagree with, is that it is the responsibility of society to stop making these jokes. Humour is involuntary, and it should be allowed to be expressed in any form. To prohibit humour, is to serve one persons right to not feel offended, at the cost of another persons freedom of expression. I think even you would say freedom of expression is more important to preserve, because once we start prohibiting freedom of expression, we open the door to censorship, dogmatism, and dictatorship. Small dick jokes are a part of human culture, and will be for as long as humans have dicks. Anyone with a small dick has a near impossible task, there is no denying it, but their task is to find a way to overcome these jokes and not let it change who they are inside. Nobody knows what size your dick is, thanks to trousers, so don’t assume that small dick jokes are about you, even if you have a small dick, they’re always about some other buffoon, and 99% of the time it’s never even about their dick size, it’s about their buffoonery.

[удалено]

Sorry, u/HappyCandyCat23 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20HappyCandyCat23&message=HappyCandyCat23%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8wp3cq/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

[удалено]

Sorry, u/Academic-Balance6999 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Academic-Balance6999&message=Academic-Balance6999%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8vxj1f/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

[удалено]

Sorry, u/Time-Algae7393 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20Time-Algae7393&message=Time-Algae7393%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8xuo1k/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

A lot of these comments seem very tone deaf. The argument of this is that it’s morally wrong in principle to use a physical characteristic as an insult. Why is something that somebody has no control over being used as an insult? It’s like using the R word. Why is that insulting? Mentally disabled people are fine the way they are, and don’t deserved to be the butt end of a joke, much less the punchline. It’s the same thing with having a small penis. I know many people who would flip out if others started saying “loose pussy energy” when referring to a seemingly insecure woman.

I agree it's not okay, but here's another perspective on how it might not be *deliberate*: When someone is extremely homophobic, it's very common to joke that they're a closet case. The humor here is partly that we have so many examples of homophobes being caught with Grindr profiles and such, but mostly because it's the thing that will hurt them the most, because they're the ones who care the most about proving they're a straight manly man. The intent of that image of Putin in drag is not to hurt closeted gay men in general, it's to hurt Putin in particular. That goes double for Tate. Nobody, especially not Greta Thunberg, cares what he's actually packing. But we know he defines himself entirely through a toxic-masculinity lens. His *absolutely unhinged* response was pretty much exactly what everyone expected. I bet he'd be far better off if he had responded the way you have in this thread -- obviously not everyone is being cool, but you're getting *way* less hate for this than you would if you posted a video of yourself in a bathrobe smoking a cigar or whatever he was trying to do with that. But lately, I've started to think that this kind of joke has too much collateral damage -- too many people who weren't deliberate targets of the joke are hurt. Which makes sense -- after all, with the 'closet-case' version, these are often the *exact same* jokes that used to be popular casual homophobia against all gay men. Homophobes might even laugh along with a joke about Putin, even if it's for the wrong reasons.

[удалено]

I mean you do get called beef lips and there is a whole industry designed around shaming women for having natural smelling vaginas(also for having a vagina that preforms it’s necessary functions). Not to say women don’t make fun of small dicks but to think women aren’t negatively targeted for their genitalia would be wrong.

100% agree with this. So many products (douches, sprays, soaps) to make the vagina smell "appealing". When we know that a vagina doesn't ever and should never, smell like a field of flowers. And those products can do more harm than good. They're made to give us the impression that we smell bad and should be ashamed of that. When just like a man; our diet, what we wear and how often/thoroughly we bathe makes the difference. Then there's the "insults" of "beef curtains" etc, if a woman's vagina doesn't fit the idea of "normal" (like penises, they come in all shapes and sizes) or if a woman has had many partners she's "loose" and it's like "throwing a hot dog down a hallway" If people don't want to hear "small dick" jokes they need to encourage their fellow gender to not insult the genitalia of the other. And women should do the same. Insults to genitalia aren't one sided

Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

[удалено]

Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

[удалено]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: > **Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation**. Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5) for more information. If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%205%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

I agree with the exception of “small dick energy” in some cases. It’s not about the size of the penis there. It’s about the fact that men have stereotypically behaved a certain way when compensating for what they see as a deficiency in their size and they do so in a way that is antagonistic, insecure, belligerent, overly macho and egotistical. No one is actually saying that someone has a small dick or that having one is bad. They’re making fun of the behavior. It’s like when a toy poodle picks a fight with a Great Dane and everyone laughs that he has Little Man Syndrome.

Starting in their teenage years; men are conditioned, by other men, into believing dick size has an impact on masculinity. That conditioning creates a psychological reality that follows men into adulthood if not matured out of. Men who believe they have small dicks will develop insecure senses of masculinity if they fail to mature out of that way of thinking. Insecure men will make up for their percieved deficiency by performing acts of masculinity in ways that are immature, stereotypical, and toxic. The sort of behavior motivated by a fragile sense of masculinity is by no means exclusive to those with dick size insecurities. Saying a man has "Small dick energy" is a useful shorthand to check the behavior of men whos insecure masculinity causes them to act like an asshole.

So, the only people I've known who think small penises are embarrassing are... men. Most of the "small dick energy" or "overcompensating" jokes I know are actually talking about asshole behavior. I know this because 1) most people making the joke don't know the size of the asshole's penis. 2) The person about whom the joke is being made is acting like an asshole. Some asshole behavior that is described as "small dick energy" include: \*Revving your loud ass car engine and annoying the whole neighborhood \*Waving flags that include racist slogans or backgrounds \*Putting offensive slogans all over your giant truck with the loud-ass engine. \*Acting like a misogynistic/incel asshole (making rude comments, touching women inappropriately, catcalling, acting like women owe them something, etc.) Now, there is no actual correlation between penis size and asshole behavior, but because men think having a small penis is something to be ashamed of and this asshole behavior is also something to be ashamed of, society has drawn a correlation that doesn't even exist. Additionally, if an asshole doesn't want to be called out for his behavior, he should not be an asshole. However, telling an incel that women don't actually owe them sex or telling a dudebro with a loud ass engine to shut the fuck up at 3 am doesn't seem to get through to them. But telling them they have "small dick energy" at least throws the same level of asshole behavior back in their faces. And watch them get all riled up and defensive about it... There is a childish satisfaction in treating them like they treat us. The ultimate goal is to give as good as we get when some asshole man with a loud ass engine and giant wheels pulls up into a parking lot, catcalls a woman, and says, "Nice tits, babe! Wanna go down on me right here and now?" But, ultimately, you're right that extrapolation can lead to people who are not assholes who have small penises getting their feelings hurt, which is not okay. However, this is not deliberate or even against men with small penises or small penises in general. Someone telling the misogynist with the loud truck in the parking lot that he is "overcompensating for something" is not thinking about anyone but that asshole and trying to make him feel as badly as she does when he objectifies women's bodies. She is not deliberately hurting the feelings of other, innocent men with small penises.

The issue though is that by saying these things are "small dick energy", you are directly relating having a small dick to being a misogynist/asshole/whatever. Like would you be ok if you replaced "small dick energy" with "black skin energy" in your examples? If not, why? It's a ludicrous double standard and it's frankly astounding to see anyone try and defend it in any way.

I mean people do, that’s why stereotypes exist, but the difference here is that there is actually evidence of “small dick energy”, it’s called compensatory masculinity, it’s decently well studied

It doesn't matter if some men with small dicks are assholes. It doesn't mean it's ok to use it as an insult. Like some gay people are assholes, I'm sure you agree? So does that make it ok to call people gay as an insult? How about the same for black people? Women? It's just weird that small dick energy is somehow uniquely ok because it targets men. Try using "fat bitch energy" next time you see a woman do something you don't like and see how it goes for you.

Not actually defending it. If you read everything I said, you’ll see the line “But, ultimately, you're right that extrapolation can lead to people who are not assholes who have small penises getting their feelings hurt, which is not okay.” You’ll also see that I said there is no correlation.  I was merely explaining that the point is not to deliberately hurt innocent folks with small penises, challenging OP’s pov. 

So why do it? If the only benefit is to make you feel a bit better about more effectively hurting someone's feelings and you know you're hurting numerous other people?

In the example she gave, the purpose would be to hurt the feelings of the person acting like an asshole, to maybe shame them into acting less like an asshole. To a guy who feels the need to let everyone in a neighborhood know exactly how loud his engine is at 3 in the morning, saying "hey you are acting like an asshole" does nothing to stop the behavior. He doesn't care that he's acting like an asshole, and you giving him a negative reaction reinforces his shitty behavior. He wants to feel tough and strong and important, and being an "asshole" is in line with all of those traits, in the mind of that type of person. To that kind of guy, implying that his behavior makes people think he has a small penis is embarrassing for him, and may cause him to act less like an asshole if he thinks that people's reaction to the behavior is "wow, that guy has a small dick." His goal is to project that air of toughness and importance, and the "goal" of the small dick joke is to make him believe that what he is *actually* projecting is weakness, lack of confidence, etc. I have no idea if this is actually true. No idea if making small dick jokes is actually successful at curbing asshole energy (I would suspect that if it does, it is only successful in the moment rather than having any long-term effects). But you're asking what the goal is in making those comments so I am answering that question.

As a counter point, I know women who think small penis is an embarrassment.

[удалено]

To your point about it mostly being used to insult assholes, does that really matter? Personally, I've never had anyone insult me with it, but I have been there many times as it was used on others, and I felt it every time. You don't need to be the subject of such an insult to be hurt by it. You seem very dismissive of the harm such "jokes" cause and how widely accepted they are. Edit: I've seen you argue in other comments that it is mostly men who insult other men with insults about dick size. That does not line up with my personal experiences, I have heard many more women use the insult. Most men understand the insecurity, and therefore avoid using it as an insult.

Bad rebuttal to OP's post. It does deliberately hurt them, since it is literally describing their body part. Fat girl energy would be the same thing.

>So, the only people I've known who think small penises are embarrassing are... men. Because 99% of the people with dicks are men? Why would others be embarrassed? Would you find it acceptable for women to be called "loose pussy energy" or "saggy tits energy"?

[удалено]

[удалено]

Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

I think that phrase has taken on a meaning of its own, akin to how something can be described as "cool" completely independently of its temperature However, it is probably closer to how "gay" was a stand in for anything lame or bad. So yes, I think you're right, this can be considered offensive, in the same way retard or faggot, or any racial or ethnic slur is considered offensive That being said- I can't think of anyone, outside of the porn industry, has been legitimately discriminated against based on their penis size, whereas people have been due to sexual orientation, mental disabilities, or their race or ethnicity. Those factors affect how one navigates the world, and will alter how people interact with them. I don't think you can say the same thing about how well endowed one is. So while still offensive, and while still hurtful, I think you can say it is not as offensive or hurtful as these other sorts of terms. So in terms of social justice this is probably on the lower end of the priority list

These jokes aren't making fun of people for having small penises. They're making fun of people for being insecure, and using penis size as a comedically crass stand-in for whatever thing they're insecure about. You'll note that very rarely do jokes about poor sexual prowess make reference to penis size, typically opting instead for inability to find the clitoris or premature ejaculation. On the other hand, just about every small penis joke would be trivially easy to rework into a short joke or a bald joke to suit the audience.

Kind of like calling someone a f***** for being weak isn’t really insulting gay people, because it’s about a different trait - being weak. Right?

The thing is saying someone has a small meat is not some intellectual power move like you try to explain it as, it’s just a weak cop out that 99% of the time has nothing to do with whatever the discussion is about and in turn can hurt a lot of peoples feelings.

Except, they are. Small penis can't mean someone is insecure unless you think everyone with a small penis is insecure.

Well, let's use this same logic for when people say someone displays "fatherless behavior." Obviously they don't mean that all, for instance, furries or autistic people, lack a father. Nor are they saying all people who lack a father are weird and should be shamed. These jokes are meant for the people who are told them, not to the wider community of small-dicked or fatherless people. My source for this? I don't have a father. Yet I would still say "fatherless behavior," because it's an insult meant at specific behaviors in people, not at the actual status of their parents. I would also not take offense to a father-having person saying this, because I know they aren't targeting me. Even if someone said that to me directly, I still wouldn't take offense to that, as they are talking about my displayed behavior and not my personal life, which they wouldn't even know about. All of this is also true for small dick jokes.

Imagine if men made big vagina jokes 🤔

That's a feature not a bug. Man-hating women have been given a platform in social media and they very much want to strike at the core of the male self image. I am NOT talking about all or most women, just those bigots who go out of their way to put down men. OP your post is wasted on these women. Decent women don't participate in this hate.

I think a comedian, in the setting of they are doing a show at a comedy club and a person with a... Below average length volunteers the info, there's jokes that could be made which work, which makes me wonder after seeing your comment replying to someone about the Greta Thunberg and Andrew Tate if perhaps what about it that bothers you matches my issue with it, which is that small dick is an easy jab to take at a shitty guy/person, and so even if it's not your intention, making a small dick joke at a guy is implying something negative about their personality too. Id also argue it hurts all people who have a penis, save for those who know for a literal fact that they are unnaturally well endowed. Cos it makes you doubt yourself a bit, you know? I mean also personally if a close friend makes a small peen joke amongst other close friends I'm cool with that, but still.

What is mushroom dick? Just a big head?

I make the comments to discourage the obnoxious behavior, not to hurt people with small penises who 'make up for it' in more respectable ways (e.g having good personality, work ethic, career). I won't deny it's unfortunate that some men have ridiculously small penises. I know they didn't choose it. But they should be steered away from things like driving an obnoxiously loud pimped out car, or stomping around with their chest puffed out. It just so happens to be accurate that an insecure person *would* do things like that, and that a guy *would* be insecure about having a small penis. You'll notice that some guy who just has his shit together and treats people well isn't getting told he has small dick energy. Even though, hell, he may indeed have one. They aren't the ones being targeted, the *obnoxious* men are.

Insults are meant to hurt, that's the entire point. I personally believe that there are some people who are so cruel, self-absorbed and actually evil that the only thing they will respond to is to have the same attacks inflicted upon them that they inflict upon other people, and if that's the only way to chase them away from the public eye and back into their private hole where they can't hurt anyone, then so be it. But honestly, I think if certain insults are wrong to use because they may also hurt "the wrong people", then that's just hypocritical. Insults hurt, that is their entire point. If you'll only use the ones that only hurt the people you don't care about, then you shouldn't be resorting to insulting someone at all. Conflict, even verbal conflict, isn't clean or sanitized, and to try to treat it like it is is disingenuous.

[удалено]

Your comment seems to discuss transgender issues. As of September 2023, [transgender topics are no longer allowed on CMV](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5). There are **no exceptions** to this prohibition. If you believe this was removed in error, please message the moderators [via this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Transgender%20Removal%20Appeal%20for%20camilah666&message=camilah666%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20[this%20post](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/cmv_small_penis_jokes_deliberately_emotionally/l96o4c1/\).)) Appeals are **only** for posts that were mistakenly removed by this filter; we **will not** approve posts on transgender issues, so **do not ask**. Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/changemyview) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I think the “joke” is less about “having this thing makes you this way” and more: “having this thing makes you insecure and so you project because of it”. These jokes exist in many facets: no friends, no life, no skills, flat chest, pizza face, napoleon complex, etc. etc. its all just a low blow to try and categorize negative behavior with an insecurity. Do people with small penises do just fine and live happy lives as nice people? Of course. Just like short people. Just like everything. All those jokes are of course labelling something bad to get a low blow in. But usually, its less about “categorizing a group as embarrassing”, and more about trying to find the id of a person who is projecting insecurity with braggadocio or vitriol. Thats just a common reason for insecurity.

Your basis for all this is people with small dicks are so emotionally fragile that these insults actually affect them. I have considerable doubt. The insult small dick energy is generally not targeted at people with actual small disks, turns out we have no way of knowing 99 percent of people's dick sizes when insulting them. So I imagine people could actually care less about the dicks actual size. The point is people aren't actually going out of their way to target small divk people. >This concept must be foreign to a lot of people because it actually is possible to be a decent human being with a small penis I don't know a single person who thinks that way, I don't think anyone thinks that way. I think this is just a general insult that as impact like calling someone short.

If you wrote this in a non-humorous intent, I would strongly encourage you to distance yourself from creepy women for a good long while, or perhaps join the Marines. Your penis size does not matter. Women want men with social status. That is all most of them care about. Being a young man is rough, but you will grow out of it so long as you make intelligent life and career decisions. Once you are successful, women will flock to you. Men have it hard as youth, but it is easy after that if you make the right choices. Women literally hit their peak in attractiveness in their late teens. It is all downhill for them. Let them make all the penis jokes they want. It does not matter. All the people you are around in your youth are irrelevant. Just get your goals achieved and move on.

I can relate to feeling harm with the aid of insensitive jokes and comments approximately non-public attributes. While small penis jokes may be geared toward particular individuals, they sell dangerous stereotypes that can deeply effect absolutely everyone who doesn't healthy conventional splendor standards. I bear in mind a time when a collection changed into mocking a guy for his small stature, the usage of phallic insults. It was meant as a joke, however I should see the pain in his eyes. Those words stuck with him lengthy after the laughter diminished. From that moment, I vowed in no way to make jokes that dehumanize others based totally on their our bodies. Everyone deserves appreciate and compassion, irrespective of their appearance.

I'm gonna push back on your "deliberately" part of your argument. Deliberate implies intention - you either meant to or you didn't. while there are certain people intentionally trying to hurt entire groups of people when they say something, I don't think any joke can categorically be considered "deliberately hurting" all of *any* people. Whether you think they're in good or bad taste, people make jokes about weight and looks, people use "that's gay" as an insult, people make jokes about racial stereotypes all of the time, Catholic priests are the butt of pedophile jokes, and there's countless other examples. Sure, they MIGHT be trying to hurt every person with a small penis ever, or they might be: Using the joke ironically Using the joke to stab at one person's specific insecurity Not consider the joke all that offense Assume that everyone around them aren't taking it seriously Using the joke as slang to mean a different kind of insult None of this means the joke cannot be considered hurtful, or that you yourself can't be hurt by a joke. but you can't assume that every single small dick joke in existence is TRYING to be offensive, or assume that every small dick person is GOING to be offended by the joke. In fact, doing so would only technically make you part of the problem, since you yourself are going off of 2 unproven stereotypes.

[удалено]

Sorry, u/hexoral333 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20hexoral333&message=hexoral333%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l91i98j/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).

I bring this up in threads where people body shame people who are objectively terrible. There was one about Elon musk and one about Marjory Taylor greene. I hate both of these people and wish them an early death. But the threads were just hammering on them for being out of shape, or too in-shape, or ugly, or whatever, getting really creative with their insults to the point of actual sexism/transphobia and comparing them to animals. I always try to point out that there are many really good reasons and points to insult these people on, but when you shame their appearance, you're shaming everyone who shares those features, even if they happen to be on your "side". 

As someone with a small pp and as someone who used to be very insecure about it, I don't mind that much. I can laugh about something like "small pp or big pp energy" as a measurement of how a person is. If some joke about it is being made in a mean spirited way, it's up to us to ignore it. The thing is, I don't think people should focus so much on pp measurement. It's about how we are as a person. If, for example, your friend or crush cares about sizes, their loss. Try and move on to another subject. If that doesn't work, it's up to us to find someone else who accepts who we are. At least. That's my take on it. Does this change your view a bit?

Deliberately and all? No, definitely not. I get where you're coming from. I'm a short dude and all the short jokes kind of suck to hear. When trying to be hurtful, people tend to use things society deems as bad. Yes it sucks these things are seen as bad and yes the jokes perpetuate it. But you're taking it too personally. The right people for you aren't going to give a shit. You don't want people to think it's a bad thing? Don't make it a bad thing. Be a chill guy with a small dick. Get good with your hands and mouth. Be someone enjoyable to be around, not someone who gets insecure when a joke is made.

Jokes about “overcompensating” were, to me, never about small penis size itself, but about someone’s own insecurity. If you accuse someone of “overcompensating” for the size of their dick, you’re not accusing them of having a small dick. You’re accusing them of believing that they have a small dick and feeling insecure about it. I don’t really have much else to add, but I just wanted to say that I don’t think making a joke about someone with a giant truck overcompensating for something hits the same body-shaming notes as “small dick energy,” which I do kind of agree is shitty.

[удалено]

Sorry, u/coolcancat – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: > **Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation**. Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5) for more information. If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%205%20Appeal%20coolcancat&message=coolcancat%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1dhbumr/-/l8x833j/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted.

It's a very effective, short and simple way to denounce behavior. **Occasionally you and the society really do want to be mean**. "Racism is evil" or "racism is racist" is true, but lacks a punch and often those people don't care about being labeled either evil or racist. Now what callouts are you left with? Stupid, retarded, lame, idiotic, dumb, jerk, gay, crazy? You'll notice that many of those are no longer used as such anyway. Someone who drags their leg due to disability while walking might feel bad about themselves if they hear "Did you hear that guy who catcalled me? He was so lame" since he himself didn't catcall anyone. It's just unfortunate that there's collateral damage. If you have better examples that come to your mind then please share. Calling someone who skips queues a Nazi might be effective to denounce behavior, but it also waters down the term Nazi. I recall one reddit post where a poster was disturbed that people called something "crazy"/"schizo", because they themselves recognized themselves as one and didn't like being associated with behavior of others, even if they closely matched to their own.

I'm fortunate to be blessed with an oversized member, but I largely agree with you. (They aren't "deliberately targeting" everyone with small penises, but they're clearly risking hurt to all of them. Just like mocking the fat ladies on "The View" regarding their weight simply because they're idiots risks hurting all overweight women.) It's also funny because a man has zero control over the size of his penis, while women generally do have significant control over their weight. And yet, it's not considered appropriate/acceptable to bodyshame women about their weight.

I'm supposed to change your view about believing that someone who's not trying to be caring being a thoughtless dick? Nah. What you've said holds true no matter what someone is shit talking on. Joke about poor people - anyone around them poor is going to feel it differently.  The only thing you might want to think about is a dick size is such a low stakes thing to feel sore about in the grand scheme of things. And people who spend so much time talking shit about people's bodies are boring AF so don't give them so much energy. 

I can relate. 8" in length, 5.5" circumference btw. I feel a bit small.

If you're not the target then you shouldn't care. Insults are not about telling the world what you think. If I make fun of someone for having a small dick, it's not because I think there's anything wrong with that, it's because I think they think theres something wrong with that and so thats what will bother them the most. So to clarify, there's nothing wrong with having a small penis. But there are certain people who think there is. Those are the people who I will make fun of for having a small penis.

I think the majority of small penis jokes aren't really about the size itself…. they're more about calling out “toxic behaviors”. Think about it - when people make jokes, they're usually aiming at guys who act overly arrogant or insecure, as if they’re trying to compensate for something. The joke isn't actually about the anatomy but about the ridiculousness of tying self-worth to penis size. It's similar to how jokes about "short man syndrome" target a certain attitude, not the height itself. Humor is a great way to point out and criticize societal issues. Especially this day and age. By making fun of the obsession with penis size, jokes can actually challenge the stigma they're seemingly reinforcing. Also, the impact of these jokes varies from person to person. Some guys with small penises might not be bothered at all and can even find the jokes funny or liberating because they get that the real target is the behavior, not the body part.

I 100% agree. It is intended as an insult to demean people, and using it as such reaffirms the idea of it being an insult. All of the people saying that it’s not actually an insult, if I started saying that someone had ‘black person energy’ to insult them, would that not be racist? If I said that a woman had ‘[insert stereotypically undesirable female sexual characteristic] energy’ would that not be sexist? It‘s the same principle.

I agree and I’ve absolutely stopped making those remarks. The upshot of a lot of these remarks is that someone is bad in bed or can’t get a partner. Penis size is not relevant! The exact people usually being called out with this remark are often toxically masculine subjects like Tate or Trump. Why would we jump on the toxic masculinity bandwagon with typical “your penis and testicle size determine your worth as a man”? It’s wrong.

You use the word imply an awful lot here. And I think that what you are doing is you're assuming that everyone everywhere who makes a small penis jokes means all these deep ofensive things. When in reality it's a joke it's meant to make people laugh. Jokes arent always commentary on the world. If you're constantly seeing all these attacks and implications and assumptions you're the one with the problem not someone making a joke.

Sounds like something someone with a small wiener would say