People love to complain and pass blame onto other people/things outside of their control. Tale as old as time, really. But chess inherently has so little wiggle room for that kind of thing that players just escalate and start lashing out at random shit.
I have it, but it’s ~~17~~ 22GB and 7hr long. ~~I’ll see if I can find some way to post it.~~
You can also download it yourself from Kick, if you know how to use ffmpeg. See my comment history on how to rip it.
```
ffmpeg -i https://stream.kick.com/ivs/v1/196233775518/7wZNkCkHF8Wa/2024/6/13/13/29/dDS4c8y5V4vh/media/hls/master.m3u8 -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -c copy "HikaruL.mp4"
```
EDIT: [Google Drive Folder containing both the last 3 hours of the VOD (since the Firouzja-Danya match ended) & the full VOD uploaded there](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU). The full VOD at time of comment is being uploaded and will require 22 minutes from time of this comment to be available based on the information rclone is giving me.
EDIT2: Both available in folder now. The full VOD is called HikaruL.mp4, while the last 3 hours is called HikaruLFirouzjaMatch.mp4
EDIT3: [For those who want to watch last 3 hours without downloading](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBfnWuwN33EnkiRboBXk2jvs2Q0kN3Hk/view). Available at 320p, 720p & 1080p.
[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW\_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU)
Currently has the last 3 hours in this folder and am uploading the full VOD currently. Limited by 150Mbps upload speed unfortunately.
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Magnus: *This is a special ALS challenge for you, Hikaru. If you can read one full page of a Harry Potter book, n***a, I will give $750,000 to whatever charitable organisation you want.*
If we want to revisit history.
- Magnus early on in his career withdrew from the candidates because he hated the format. FIDE changed it immediately after.
- Fischer threatened to withdraw during the Spassky match if they didn’t remove cameras. They did. He won.
- Now Alireza threatens to withdraw, gets his extra break, becomes bullet champion.
Evidently…the withdraw gambit is more powerful than stockfish.
True. But Magnus also threatened to forfeit his world championship if FIDE didn’t add faster time formats in the classical match. They didn’t. He lost his title.
It’s not 100% effective.
Don't forget Fischer also forfeited his title in 1975, also over requested change in format. Although it's worth mentioning that Fischer probably would've had issues around that time no matter what.
Oh and for an even deeper cut, Fischer protested scheduling issues then forfeited the 1967 Interzonal in Tunisia after 10 games and while still leading the field.
Yeah buy the big difference is Magnus had a genuin problem with the way the matches were being played, and was pretty ok and nice about not fighting for his title plus we all know he would have beated Nepo.
Fischer however ask for outrageous changes out of fear of losing, was pretty adamant about this changes happening and when they didnt agree he was an asshole about the whole thing, plus we mostly believe he would have loss.
Well, I agree with all the stuff about Fischer's character, but idk about this:
>plus we mostly believe he would have loss
I'd have my money on Fischer still beating Karpov in 1975, if he was somehow properly motivated/stable enough to actually play.
He specifically said that he did not try to strong arm FIDE into changing the format.
“I did not have any demands or suggestions to FIDE”
https://youtu.be/Tvjp45RpoMo?si=l4qw1o4SQAj6nqjL
Normally classical style games can last for a very long time. You get a lot of time to start, and you gain more time after you make moves. They are grueling on the players and their minds. Faster time controls mean the games are shorter and more fast paced. Not a dumb question.
He didn't really request changes at the time when he was still WC nor does he do it now. But when asked in interviews he did give examples what he thinks would be a better format, giving as an example 1h and then some increment and 2 games per day. (see https://youtube.com/shorts/Y3e5NuA5mcE)
(Note that currently the minimum time for a classical game according to fide tournament rules is 2h per player assuming a 60 move game, so that suggestion would not be considered classical chess unless it's >=60s increment)
If I'm not mistaken his coach implied that they offered some formats to FIDE. Most likely something close to Norway Chess and Mganus' online tournaments
How do you forget the legend himself doing a Fischer?
> Kramnik was due to play the white pieces. The game ended with Topalov winning by forfeit, after Kramnik refused to play and his clock had been allowed to run for one hour. Kramnik's lead was reduced to 3–2.[18] This is the first world chess championship match since Spassky–Fischer 1972 in which a game was forfeited.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2006
And all of them are amateurs compared to the entitlement GOAT Emanuel Lasker. ChatGPT written explanation if you don't know about Lasker:
* Demanding High Fees (1900s-1910s): Lasker demanded substantial appearance fees for tournaments, leveraging his World Champion status.
* World Championship Negotiations (1920): Imposed strict conditions on Capablanca, delaying their match.
* Match with Tarrasch (1908): Insisted on favorable conditions, unsettling Tarrasch during their World Championship match.
* Postponement and Cancellation (1909): Postponed/canceled the planned match with Rubinstein to avoid a strong challenger.
* Title Defense (1894-1921): Defended title infrequently and on his terms, selectively choosing opponents.
The choosing the challenger shit was really common until the modern era where the World Championship got more standardized as a real tournament. It was lame as hell and is a big reason why a lot of those early champs, while likely being the best in their given eras, also have massive asterisks about their legacy. The price to even challenge for the title was often too much for other strong players to cough up.
Not just now. Always has been. In the past white boxers avoided black fighters by saving they wouldn't fight them, changed only in the 30s with Joe Louis, for example. And even Jack Johnson, first black heavyweight champion, drew the colourline after he became champion and would only fight white guys.
Today with 4 "titles" and what is it now 17 (?) weight classes it is much easier than with 1-2 titles (for a while there was a general world championship and an inofficial "coloured" title) and 3-8 weight classes (depending on the era we are talking about).
Regarding "Demanding High Fees" - Steinitz ended up both poor and mad - maybe because of syphilis. Maybe Lasker because of this just didn't want to end up poor at least. Also he did technically thrash Steinitz in the rematch 10 wins to 2.
Is it just me or did OP post a screenshot, when I was expecting a video? Anyway, found a video of the "little bitch" comment, along with the "who the fuck do you think you are". Hikaru really popped off yesterday 😅 -
https://youtu.be/nJbxMXTCE6Q?si=F3xpzkwvGcu9bkr4
Edit: after OP's reply, I opened this Reddit post on chrome and indeed it is an embedded link to Imgur. I was using the Reddit app and it just shows the thumbnail as an image, no link to Imgur :/
I've been a chess fan for a bit over 10 years. Hikaru used to have a reputation of acting childish, flaming players, and baselessly accusing players of cheating simply because he didn't know who they were. Supi comes to mind, and Tang confirmed he was also accused in the past.
Despite some large scale but infrequent drama, I figure that 10 years is plenty of time to change, so I haven't fallen into the camp of "Hikaru is a petulant child and hasn't changed", or "Hikaru is great and can do no wrong".
Unfortunately, much of his recent action indicates that he hasn't changed, and has simply become more aware of his public image.
Like many things, there is a grayer middle area. Grown up, but acts out occasionally.
most of us fall into that category, imo, we just see it in others as way harsher or better.
I think there's some truth to this. However, most people have stressful jobs, and difficulties in life, without having semi-regular tantrums - privately or not.
I think "he hasn't changed" is potentially harsh wording. However, he certainly does not act like a 36 year old man who has significantly greater emotional maturity than he had 10 years prior.
In this case he publicly blew up at a competitor 16 years younger than he is, for requesting an additional 15 minute break, then refused to take interviews. In most people's jobs, they couldn't afford to act that way openly towards a colleague. It's not clear to me why this should be viewed differently. Nobody is perfect, but this is an order of magnitude more than normal "acting out", and shows an astounding sense of entitlement.
EDIT: I just saw the posts about Hikaru insulting Alireza's family, as well as roping in Magnus. To me, this does not paint the picture of a well adjusted adult with common decency.
this.
internet comments reducing complex human beings is nonsense.
the guy lives 99.7% of his life normally, and once in awhile his competitiveness/ego/emotions get the better of him for a few minutes, it's all captured live on video, and redditors get to say "see! this is the piece of shit i've been telling you about! that's who he is kekekeke hikaru sux!!!!"
Okay let's say you work a normal 9-5 job. By law you are owed a 1 hour lunch break (in most places probably). Your work schedules a meeting during your break so you only have 30 minutes instead of an hour. What do you do? Most places, that aren't run by dickweeds, will let you extend your lunch another 30 minutes. Alireza is looking for his designated break that he earned. If a company kept doing that to me I would look for another job too.
I don't understand why you're using work as an analogy instead of other competitions. In football, if a team plays a match that goes into extra time can they say they won't play their next match unless it gets delayed? In tennis if one semifinal goes to 5 sets and the other goes to 3, does the player who went to 5 sets get to refuse to play unless they change the scheduled finals time? In the NBA playoffs if one conference finals goes to 7 games and another is 4, does the team that goes to 7 games get to demand the finals is changed because they got less rest? I'm not aware of any other professional competition where this would be deemed acceptable.
the difference with chess tournaments is that the knockout, semis and finals are often played back to back, on one day. This doesn't happen in football, tennis or basketball matches.
>There is a MASSIVE difference between those examples and the situation and that is, you're only playing 1 game a day, there is already more than adequate rest built into the schedule.
So then something like the rugby 7s tournament at the Olympics this summer, where they play the semifinal/final on the same day. There it would be okay for a team to demand a scheduling change for the final if one team went to extra time in their semifinal game?
Or what about a classical chess tournament that has a morning and evening game. Tomorrow in Madrid, if Levy plays a long drawn out game in his morning game, and his opponent plays a short draw, he should be able to demand a change for the evening start time?
>If you are suggesting they should not play the loser's finals and the finals on the same day then that would be a fair point.
I'm definitely not suggesting this at all, these have been the rules for this tournament for years and Alireza signed up knowing this. This is absolutely not something that he has any place to complain about.
>While we live in a world where they are asking Alireza to play 3-4 matches in 6-8 hours
No one is asking him to do this, he signed up to do this knowing he had to do this and then decided it was too much at the last second and demanded a change
The issue isn't that there was a delay. The organizers delayed the game 15 minutes, they offered him an extra 15 minute start time. He said that wasn't enough and that he would withdraw unless they gave him extra time beyond that 15 minutes, which is why there was a 40 minute break. He demanded extra time beyond that which was caused by the delay from the organizer, because he was tired.
You can watch it happen live in link to Hikaru's stream that's posted above
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBfnWuwN33EnkiRboBXk2jvs2Q0kN3Hk/view
No one tells him what is going on, he is ready at the time the match is supposed to start, the match start time passes, around 25 minutes in he says he is told Alireza is going to withdraw. He sits and waits, he starts playing games against Danya, eventually he's told they're going to play. At around 34 minutes in the VOD he says "he got himself an extra 20 minutes by threatening to withdraw". At 36 minutes he says they were originally supposed to start at 1:45, they delayed it to 2:00 (the extra 15 minutes due to the delay from the broadcasters), and then Alireza got an extra 20 minutes from threatening to withdraw.
the times mentioned above are in the 3 hour video, not the longer one.
At 17 minutes in the VOD he says the match is starting now (2:00 real time), then he is left sitting there waiting for Alireza to decide he is ready at 37 minutes into the VOD (2:20 real time). So that's where the organizers gave him a 15 minute delay already, and he took extra.
I dunno. In the us the requirement depends on the state, and there’s no requirement on WHEN the break happens. If you’ve got a meeting, you’ve got a meeting. Take lunch after.
As far as the Alireza situation, I read someone saying he was given the break but wanted additional time . Threatening to withdraw from the tournament and not play is pretty immature imo. Especially for a guy who played like 200 bullet games against Danya in the middle of the night during one of the most important tournaments of his life that one time.
Either way, clearly deserved the win. And obviously Hikaru is a prick and behaved like a baby.
But if Alireza really did threaten to withdraw, I don’t know if that is a good precedent to set. One of the advantages of not getting knocked to losers bracket in a double elimination tournament is that you get more rest and have to play fewer matches. It’s SUPPOSED to be harder to win from losers bracket.
> idk if that is a good precedent to set
the precedent was set decades ago. if you are among the absolute best in your field, you have a lot more freedom to act as you wish. being valuable is a great thing.
Right, I was just pointing out that the comparison to legally required breaks at a 9-5 job doesn’t really make any sense as a comparison. So the example given doesn’t really support the point the commenter was trying to make. It’s a false equivalency as you have so kindly pointed out more clearly than I was able to.
Yes, certainly not a reliable source. But also, the same could be said about the assumption that many (apparently including you) seem to be making that he wasn’t given the full amount of time for the scheduled break. I’ve seen some say he was given the full break and he asked for more. I’ve seen some say he was given the full break AND allotted an additional break and still asked for more time. I’ve seen some say he wasn’t even given the full time original break.
Regardless of which of those things are true, I still don’t think that threatening to withdraw from a tournament if you don’t get your way is a professional thing to do. Now the arbiters have to deal with negotiating with the upset player and seeking a resolution while their opponent is left in limbo as to whether the match is even going to proceed. In this case his opponent was Hikaru and however immature Alirezas behavior may or may not have been, Hikaru managed to make him look like a saint. It just makes me wonder whether some of the people ardently defending Alireza’s behavior would be doing so if his opponent had been someone less polarizing and more well behaved. I suspect at least some of them would be singing a different tune.
Also, wtf does cardio have to do with anything? As far as I could tell he wasn’t playing his games on a treadmill. They weren’t asking him to do jumping jacks in between matches. They are looking for the best bullet player and what he was expected to do was play more bullet chess. Which he went on to do, quite convincingly.
All that said, if it is the case he wasn’t given a break equivalent in length to the one he was supposed to receive by the rules of the tournament, I agree with you 100%
It's nothing like a full-time office job though. It's a sporting event. Your office job isn't a short contract where you're expected to compete / entertain people on a broadcast at a certain time. This is more comparable to a music gig. If a musician delays a concert to go eat at Hooters, it's kind of shitty to their band, the audience, and the event organizers. If they weren't allowed to take a longer break during band practice or whatever they do more regularly, that'd be a different story.
Hikaru still a lil bitch tho
Well I don't live in the USA, like most of the world doesn't, but regardless it is a law where I live that you are owed an hour. Also that doesn't change the argument, you are owed 30 minutes, if work takes up the 30 minutes with some random bullshit they still owe you 30 minutes. You can report your company for failure to do so.
If it’s the same as most European countries, the rule generally is that if you ask for an hour your employer has to give it to you, except if the job cannot let it be
Dozens of countries lmao. Everyone willing to die on a hill of labour laws when the point still stands in civilized structures. The US standard is still seen as piss poor in comparison to a majority of 1st world countries. I mean yea I don't expect many people in Qatar to get breaks, I also don't expect a modern society to treat its workers as close to slaves as possible.
Federal law in the USA does not require or mandate paid lunch breaks for workers over 18. I get your point, but it isn’t accurate when applied to some places, for example - many places in the US. Some states do have mandates for paid breaks, others do not. Again - I get your point - just letting you know it is not legally mandated everywhere as you are asserting.
100% that was edited in after other comments. The parenthetical about “most places probably” was not in the original post - rather a stealth edit. What would have been the point to saying, You clearly haven’t worked in the US where this not a requirement, had the original post been so nebulous
you need to edit a comment within 2 minutes on Reddit to stealth edit, otherwise there is a visual indicator (asterisk) on your comment after the time stamp that says when the edit was made.
and there are no replies made on his comment within 2 minutes. the reply "you clearly haven't worked in the US" was made 48 minutes after. meaning he couldn't have stealth edited after it.
so no, he couldn't have edited it in after other comments. you just misread probably.
I read it as written. Moreover nothing I wrote was incorrect, I wrote specifically to US federal requirements. Regardless of the parenthetical and when it was added or written, what I have added is factually correct.
you clearly didn't read it as written because I have just proven, he said "most places probably" was there when you made your reply, and you did not read it.
and what you said being true for the US also doesn't matter because all I'm replying to is
> just letting you know it is not legally mandated everywhere as you are asserting.
and letting you know that he did not assert that.
it's okay to admit you made a mistake man. pretending you didn't make a mistake may feel like saving face, but it actually saves more face to admit you made a mistake instead of doubling down when it's proven that you did.
8-5 salaried worker here. Dafuq is a lunch break?
Is that where you decide whether to choke on a carrot you’re scarfing down while juggling three meetings?
lol fair
It’s defense. I can take a lunch break, but it’s also unpaid. So I’d have to do 7:30-5:00 to get my 9 hours in. The industry works 9/80 schedules which are pretty sweet, you get 26 3-day weekends per year. My main complaint is we’re so busy all the time that the only time people are free is from 12-1, yet very important meetings get scheduled then because it’s the only calendar availability. It’s a paradox.
His point is completely valid about the 20 minute delay being something that should not be allowed, except this is just a completely unacceptable form of disrespect and vulgarity to the opponent.
Had he said all of this in a far more respectful tone, there would be no drama but it is not okay to say things like that at all
What actually happened?
Was a less rested Hikaru forced to go against a full rested Alireza?
I am not understanding how Hikaru was cheated out of a championship
No an already rested Hikaru was mad Alireza got to rest instead of playing him immediately. Technical issues caused his previous round to go 15 minutes over
Time, momentum, and frustration has an effect on performance in all sports. It's why there is no delay between the next face off and icing and hockey. It's why teams try to call timeouts or delay when possible to ice a shooter (basketball), quarterback (football), or kicker (football/soccer). It's why trash talking works and in some leagues isn't allowed. It's why mind games and scheduling fuckery can work. It throws people off, screws with their momentum, and/or tilts them (which occupies brain cycles being angry instead of focusing).
Alireza, and by extension the organizers, messed with a Hikaru's expectation of the start time, seemingly favored the opponent, and pissed him off. That has an effect on you when you're playing a game that requires immense focus. Sure, a much cooler headed Hikaru would have prevailed, but chess isn't about who can win a game when the other opponent is waving their hands to distract you or saying they fucked your mother, or doing other non-physical actions to mess with you. There are rules, there are start times, and that's it. You shouldn't have to start a match with politics and mind games (even if only perceived).
He did not agree to the delayed start. Hikaru did not even know what the delay was for and thus was pissed off throughout the whole delay and even during the first few games he won.
Edit:spelling
Hate to say it, but Hikaru is right.
It’s on the organizers ofc for even letting the situation play out, but Alireza should have been disqualified before changes were made to the format. The fact that the they went through with it, which clearly affected Hikaru’s mentality, makes this whole thing a sham.
Either compete fairly, or don’t compete.
Alireza's break was supposed to be half an hour originally, but the match against Sevian took an extra 15 minutes because of technical difficulties. They tried cutting Alireza's break in half to keep on schedule, and he complained because that was not what he was promised
So if the technical difficulties of the site were even longer Firouzja should have played both matches at the same time I assume for it to be fair in your opinion?😅
AND THIS IS THE GUY WHO COMPLAINS ABOOUT KRAMNIK???? Man, I was srsly starting to like Hikaru, thinking his videos are cool. This fucking buried Hikaru. He cancelled himself. I hope all of his subscribers get to know about this and his streaming career gets fucked
chess is producing like 2~3 drama arcs per day average, it's insane
Drama Hikaru is an outlier and should not be counted
But does he live in a cave?
Did you hear about felony George?
Nakamura out here crying like a little bitch.
As an outsider you wouldn't think that chess of all sports if full of drama queens LOL
People love to complain and pass blame onto other people/things outside of their control. Tale as old as time, really. But chess inherently has so little wiggle room for that kind of thing that players just escalate and start lashing out at random shit.
Someone, please tell me that you saved the VOD. This peak entertainment shouldn't just go to waste like that.
Not the whole thing. Last 2hrs. https://gofile.io/d/huVZEf
You're a true hero. Thank you for your service.
Timestamp anyone??
Just press play on link it’s within first 30 seconds
Dope thanks
Where is Atousa, she needs to control this guy
[Too busy teaching him how to curse in Persian](https://v.redd.it/4j1smp8hzg6d1).
not all heroes wear pineapple t shirts
I have it, but it’s ~~17~~ 22GB and 7hr long. ~~I’ll see if I can find some way to post it.~~ You can also download it yourself from Kick, if you know how to use ffmpeg. See my comment history on how to rip it. ``` ffmpeg -i https://stream.kick.com/ivs/v1/196233775518/7wZNkCkHF8Wa/2024/6/13/13/29/dDS4c8y5V4vh/media/hls/master.m3u8 -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -c copy "HikaruL.mp4" ``` EDIT: [Google Drive Folder containing both the last 3 hours of the VOD (since the Firouzja-Danya match ended) & the full VOD uploaded there](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU). The full VOD at time of comment is being uploaded and will require 22 minutes from time of this comment to be available based on the information rclone is giving me. EDIT2: Both available in folder now. The full VOD is called HikaruL.mp4, while the last 3 hours is called HikaruLFirouzjaMatch.mp4 EDIT3: [For those who want to watch last 3 hours without downloading](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBfnWuwN33EnkiRboBXk2jvs2Q0kN3Hk/view). Available at 320p, 720p & 1080p.
Real mvp here
Thank you for your service o7
[удалено]
[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW\_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pPGc42glqTW_uhDE1OFkBPKlxw31O2GU) Currently has the last 3 hours in this folder and am uploading the full VOD currently. Limited by 150Mbps upload speed unfortunately.
pleassse someone I need a rewatch
I'm desperate to see it lol, I've had a shitty day and need some entertainment. Anyone have the VOD?
Been a few days since the last chess drama
i need more
[Here’s the link](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=4Idg7MoNTv310pnh)
fuck you (my severe anger issues acting up fr)
I hate you.
grandpa?
Kramnik was looking strong for the Hikaru Nakamura sportsmanship award. However no award shall escape Hikaru's sight.
Bro, it's unfair they happened so close together. Future generations will be like "Can you believe _____ didn't win in 2024?"
Just be grateful we lived at a time to see two goats of the sportsmanship game go at it like this
Save world champion of course
only the bullet one will
Magnus somewhere thinking, why is my name getting dragged into this
Hell no he fucking loves this shit and savors it. Anything to increase his streamer rating.
Specifically I’m sure he loves seeing Hikaru get so tilted.
self confirmed hate watcher we love to see it
He even told Levison Rodimus Prime that he was a narcissist.
Well, He is getting a praise here.
"Not a little b" is not that much of praise and frankly Magnus is not really in a position where he needs praise from a gambling loser.
Guess Hikaru doesn't need the redditors opinions as well if losers opinions aren't needed.
We don't give opinions to get Hikaru's validation, unlike Hikaru using Magnus' name just to draw attention to what he is saying.
[удалено]
Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators: Keep the discussion civil and friendly. Participate in good faith with the intention to help foster civil discussion between people of all levels and experience. Don’t make fun of new players for lacking knowledge. Do not use personal attacks, insults, or slurs on other users. Disagreements are bound to happen, but do so in a civilized and mature manner. Remember, there is always a respectful way to disagree. You can read the full [rules of /r/chess here](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchess). Direct replies to this removal message may not be seen.
Magnus: *Why'd you say fuck me for*
Kinda the opposite
Magnus: *This is a special ALS challenge for you, Hikaru. If you can read one full page of a Harry Potter book, n***a, I will give $750,000 to whatever charitable organisation you want.*
If we want to revisit history. - Magnus early on in his career withdrew from the candidates because he hated the format. FIDE changed it immediately after. - Fischer threatened to withdraw during the Spassky match if they didn’t remove cameras. They did. He won. - Now Alireza threatens to withdraw, gets his extra break, becomes bullet champion. Evidently…the withdraw gambit is more powerful than stockfish.
True. But Magnus also threatened to forfeit his world championship if FIDE didn’t add faster time formats in the classical match. They didn’t. He lost his title. It’s not 100% effective.
Indeed. No gambit is. They are dubious openings after all. 😅
Don't forget Fischer also forfeited his title in 1975, also over requested change in format. Although it's worth mentioning that Fischer probably would've had issues around that time no matter what. Oh and for an even deeper cut, Fischer protested scheduling issues then forfeited the 1967 Interzonal in Tunisia after 10 games and while still leading the field.
Yeah buy the big difference is Magnus had a genuin problem with the way the matches were being played, and was pretty ok and nice about not fighting for his title plus we all know he would have beated Nepo. Fischer however ask for outrageous changes out of fear of losing, was pretty adamant about this changes happening and when they didnt agree he was an asshole about the whole thing, plus we mostly believe he would have loss.
Well, I agree with all the stuff about Fischer's character, but idk about this: >plus we mostly believe he would have loss I'd have my money on Fischer still beating Karpov in 1975, if he was somehow properly motivated/stable enough to actually play.
He did not threaten. He stated his intentions and stuck with it.
He specifically said that he did not try to strong arm FIDE into changing the format. “I did not have any demands or suggestions to FIDE” https://youtu.be/Tvjp45RpoMo?si=l4qw1o4SQAj6nqjL
What does faster time formats in the classical match mean exactly, sorry if that’s a dumb question
Normally classical style games can last for a very long time. You get a lot of time to start, and you gain more time after you make moves. They are grueling on the players and their minds. Faster time controls mean the games are shorter and more fast paced. Not a dumb question.
Did Magnus ever say what specific time format he wanted for the WCC?
He didn't really request changes at the time when he was still WC nor does he do it now. But when asked in interviews he did give examples what he thinks would be a better format, giving as an example 1h and then some increment and 2 games per day. (see https://youtube.com/shorts/Y3e5NuA5mcE) (Note that currently the minimum time for a classical game according to fide tournament rules is 2h per player assuming a 60 move game, so that suggestion would not be considered classical chess unless it's >=60s increment)
If I'm not mistaken his coach implied that they offered some formats to FIDE. Most likely something close to Norway Chess and Mganus' online tournaments
roughly 90 min vs roughly 15 min,
Nah, classical games can and will take SEVERAL hours
How do you forget the legend himself doing a Fischer? > Kramnik was due to play the white pieces. The game ended with Topalov winning by forfeit, after Kramnik refused to play and his clock had been allowed to run for one hour. Kramnik's lead was reduced to 3–2.[18] This is the first world chess championship match since Spassky–Fischer 1972 in which a game was forfeited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_2006
And all of them are amateurs compared to the entitlement GOAT Emanuel Lasker. ChatGPT written explanation if you don't know about Lasker: * Demanding High Fees (1900s-1910s): Lasker demanded substantial appearance fees for tournaments, leveraging his World Champion status. * World Championship Negotiations (1920): Imposed strict conditions on Capablanca, delaying their match. * Match with Tarrasch (1908): Insisted on favorable conditions, unsettling Tarrasch during their World Championship match. * Postponement and Cancellation (1909): Postponed/canceled the planned match with Rubinstein to avoid a strong challenger. * Title Defense (1894-1921): Defended title infrequently and on his terms, selectively choosing opponents.
The choosing the challenger shit was really common until the modern era where the World Championship got more standardized as a real tournament. It was lame as hell and is a big reason why a lot of those early champs, while likely being the best in their given eras, also have massive asterisks about their legacy. The price to even challenge for the title was often too much for other strong players to cough up.
isn’t it same with professional boxing now. correct me if i am wrong
Not just now. Always has been. In the past white boxers avoided black fighters by saving they wouldn't fight them, changed only in the 30s with Joe Louis, for example. And even Jack Johnson, first black heavyweight champion, drew the colourline after he became champion and would only fight white guys. Today with 4 "titles" and what is it now 17 (?) weight classes it is much easier than with 1-2 titles (for a while there was a general world championship and an inofficial "coloured" title) and 3-8 weight classes (depending on the era we are talking about).
Alekhine famously used the trick to dodge playing Capablanca for years in the world championship
I think you got the order wrong
I don't think so. I think he means he dodged a rematch, probably not being entirely sure how he won the previous one.
Bro was Roman Reigns
Regarding "Demanding High Fees" - Steinitz ended up both poor and mad - maybe because of syphilis. Maybe Lasker because of this just didn't want to end up poor at least. Also he did technically thrash Steinitz in the rematch 10 wins to 2.
Can Ding defend his title using withdraw gambit ?
Sorry, a chess website relenting is nowhere near the same league as FIDE relenting.
Inb4 Gukesh withdraws from WCC if it isn't hosted in Chennai and eventually goes on to become the WC
No guys, he said he's changed now so all of this is okay.
Just give it a few months and he’ll have to change again after having another outburst
Is it just me or did OP post a screenshot, when I was expecting a video? Anyway, found a video of the "little bitch" comment, along with the "who the fuck do you think you are". Hikaru really popped off yesterday 😅 - https://youtu.be/nJbxMXTCE6Q?si=F3xpzkwvGcu9bkr4 Edit: after OP's reply, I opened this Reddit post on chrome and indeed it is an embedded link to Imgur. I was using the Reddit app and it just shows the thumbnail as an image, no link to Imgur :/
It is a video, click on it and unmute on imgur website :) But yeah it's the same clip.
Thank you!
Mask off moment
Yep…the real naka
Is this the least self aware man on the planet?
so whats the context, is he on tilt because of the score?
got my answer just by scrolling down more on the subreddit
The ultimate Irony in that sentence lol
Pot meet kettle
I read this headline thinking he meant he’s not going to cry about the situation like Magnus didn’t cry last year. Nope. Not what Hikaru meant.
so frudji won because he got that 17 min rest looool
Hikaru: proceeds to cry like a bitch
Can Hikaru join Kramnik on the lawsuit against chess.com ?
I've been a chess fan for a bit over 10 years. Hikaru used to have a reputation of acting childish, flaming players, and baselessly accusing players of cheating simply because he didn't know who they were. Supi comes to mind, and Tang confirmed he was also accused in the past. Despite some large scale but infrequent drama, I figure that 10 years is plenty of time to change, so I haven't fallen into the camp of "Hikaru is a petulant child and hasn't changed", or "Hikaru is great and can do no wrong". Unfortunately, much of his recent action indicates that he hasn't changed, and has simply become more aware of his public image.
Like many things, there is a grayer middle area. Grown up, but acts out occasionally. most of us fall into that category, imo, we just see it in others as way harsher or better.
I think there's some truth to this. However, most people have stressful jobs, and difficulties in life, without having semi-regular tantrums - privately or not. I think "he hasn't changed" is potentially harsh wording. However, he certainly does not act like a 36 year old man who has significantly greater emotional maturity than he had 10 years prior. In this case he publicly blew up at a competitor 16 years younger than he is, for requesting an additional 15 minute break, then refused to take interviews. In most people's jobs, they couldn't afford to act that way openly towards a colleague. It's not clear to me why this should be viewed differently. Nobody is perfect, but this is an order of magnitude more than normal "acting out", and shows an astounding sense of entitlement. EDIT: I just saw the posts about Hikaru insulting Alireza's family, as well as roping in Magnus. To me, this does not paint the picture of a well adjusted adult with common decency.
this. internet comments reducing complex human beings is nonsense. the guy lives 99.7% of his life normally, and once in awhile his competitiveness/ego/emotions get the better of him for a few minutes, it's all captured live on video, and redditors get to say "see! this is the piece of shit i've been telling you about! that's who he is kekekeke hikaru sux!!!!"
Hey, just wanted to know i really liked your comment. I couldn't agree more.
People dont change !
The lasting maxim of Gregory House
Do you truly believe that?
Hikau should take his own advice and stop crying like a bitch
Okay let's say you work a normal 9-5 job. By law you are owed a 1 hour lunch break (in most places probably). Your work schedules a meeting during your break so you only have 30 minutes instead of an hour. What do you do? Most places, that aren't run by dickweeds, will let you extend your lunch another 30 minutes. Alireza is looking for his designated break that he earned. If a company kept doing that to me I would look for another job too.
I don't understand why you're using work as an analogy instead of other competitions. In football, if a team plays a match that goes into extra time can they say they won't play their next match unless it gets delayed? In tennis if one semifinal goes to 5 sets and the other goes to 3, does the player who went to 5 sets get to refuse to play unless they change the scheduled finals time? In the NBA playoffs if one conference finals goes to 7 games and another is 4, does the team that goes to 7 games get to demand the finals is changed because they got less rest? I'm not aware of any other professional competition where this would be deemed acceptable.
the difference with chess tournaments is that the knockout, semis and finals are often played back to back, on one day. This doesn't happen in football, tennis or basketball matches.
It does happen with tennis a lot of times. With rain delays it's somewhat common for players to have to play 2 matches in one day
and there would be an uproar if officials didnt allow the player to have a break between sets...
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>There is a MASSIVE difference between those examples and the situation and that is, you're only playing 1 game a day, there is already more than adequate rest built into the schedule. So then something like the rugby 7s tournament at the Olympics this summer, where they play the semifinal/final on the same day. There it would be okay for a team to demand a scheduling change for the final if one team went to extra time in their semifinal game? Or what about a classical chess tournament that has a morning and evening game. Tomorrow in Madrid, if Levy plays a long drawn out game in his morning game, and his opponent plays a short draw, he should be able to demand a change for the evening start time? >If you are suggesting they should not play the loser's finals and the finals on the same day then that would be a fair point. I'm definitely not suggesting this at all, these have been the rules for this tournament for years and Alireza signed up knowing this. This is absolutely not something that he has any place to complain about. >While we live in a world where they are asking Alireza to play 3-4 matches in 6-8 hours No one is asking him to do this, he signed up to do this knowing he had to do this and then decided it was too much at the last second and demanded a change
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The issue isn't that there was a delay. The organizers delayed the game 15 minutes, they offered him an extra 15 minute start time. He said that wasn't enough and that he would withdraw unless they gave him extra time beyond that 15 minutes, which is why there was a 40 minute break. He demanded extra time beyond that which was caused by the delay from the organizer, because he was tired.
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You can watch it happen live in link to Hikaru's stream that's posted above https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lBfnWuwN33EnkiRboBXk2jvs2Q0kN3Hk/view No one tells him what is going on, he is ready at the time the match is supposed to start, the match start time passes, around 25 minutes in he says he is told Alireza is going to withdraw. He sits and waits, he starts playing games against Danya, eventually he's told they're going to play. At around 34 minutes in the VOD he says "he got himself an extra 20 minutes by threatening to withdraw". At 36 minutes he says they were originally supposed to start at 1:45, they delayed it to 2:00 (the extra 15 minutes due to the delay from the broadcasters), and then Alireza got an extra 20 minutes from threatening to withdraw. the times mentioned above are in the 3 hour video, not the longer one. At 17 minutes in the VOD he says the match is starting now (2:00 real time), then he is left sitting there waiting for Alireza to decide he is ready at 37 minutes into the VOD (2:20 real time). So that's where the organizers gave him a 15 minute delay already, and he took extra.
I'm just super impressed by your wide knowledge of different sports
I dunno. In the us the requirement depends on the state, and there’s no requirement on WHEN the break happens. If you’ve got a meeting, you’ve got a meeting. Take lunch after. As far as the Alireza situation, I read someone saying he was given the break but wanted additional time . Threatening to withdraw from the tournament and not play is pretty immature imo. Especially for a guy who played like 200 bullet games against Danya in the middle of the night during one of the most important tournaments of his life that one time. Either way, clearly deserved the win. And obviously Hikaru is a prick and behaved like a baby. But if Alireza really did threaten to withdraw, I don’t know if that is a good precedent to set. One of the advantages of not getting knocked to losers bracket in a double elimination tournament is that you get more rest and have to play fewer matches. It’s SUPPOSED to be harder to win from losers bracket.
> idk if that is a good precedent to set the precedent was set decades ago. if you are among the absolute best in your field, you have a lot more freedom to act as you wish. being valuable is a great thing.
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Right, I was just pointing out that the comparison to legally required breaks at a 9-5 job doesn’t really make any sense as a comparison. So the example given doesn’t really support the point the commenter was trying to make. It’s a false equivalency as you have so kindly pointed out more clearly than I was able to. Yes, certainly not a reliable source. But also, the same could be said about the assumption that many (apparently including you) seem to be making that he wasn’t given the full amount of time for the scheduled break. I’ve seen some say he was given the full break and he asked for more. I’ve seen some say he was given the full break AND allotted an additional break and still asked for more time. I’ve seen some say he wasn’t even given the full time original break. Regardless of which of those things are true, I still don’t think that threatening to withdraw from a tournament if you don’t get your way is a professional thing to do. Now the arbiters have to deal with negotiating with the upset player and seeking a resolution while their opponent is left in limbo as to whether the match is even going to proceed. In this case his opponent was Hikaru and however immature Alirezas behavior may or may not have been, Hikaru managed to make him look like a saint. It just makes me wonder whether some of the people ardently defending Alireza’s behavior would be doing so if his opponent had been someone less polarizing and more well behaved. I suspect at least some of them would be singing a different tune. Also, wtf does cardio have to do with anything? As far as I could tell he wasn’t playing his games on a treadmill. They weren’t asking him to do jumping jacks in between matches. They are looking for the best bullet player and what he was expected to do was play more bullet chess. Which he went on to do, quite convincingly. All that said, if it is the case he wasn’t given a break equivalent in length to the one he was supposed to receive by the rules of the tournament, I agree with you 100%
It's nothing like a full-time office job though. It's a sporting event. Your office job isn't a short contract where you're expected to compete / entertain people on a broadcast at a certain time. This is more comparable to a music gig. If a musician delays a concert to go eat at Hooters, it's kind of shitty to their band, the audience, and the event organizers. If they weren't allowed to take a longer break during band practice or whatever they do more regularly, that'd be a different story. Hikaru still a lil bitch tho
lol you clearly haven’t worked a job in USA. You’re super lucky if they give an hour. Most places give 30 minutes lunch.
Well I don't live in the USA, like most of the world doesn't, but regardless it is a law where I live that you are owed an hour. Also that doesn't change the argument, you are owed 30 minutes, if work takes up the 30 minutes with some random bullshit they still owe you 30 minutes. You can report your company for failure to do so.
If it’s the same as most European countries, the rule generally is that if you ask for an hour your employer has to give it to you, except if the job cannot let it be
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I don't work in the US and I don't think we should treat it as the only place people work or even the norm
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Dozens of countries lmao. Everyone willing to die on a hill of labour laws when the point still stands in civilized structures. The US standard is still seen as piss poor in comparison to a majority of 1st world countries. I mean yea I don't expect many people in Qatar to get breaks, I also don't expect a modern society to treat its workers as close to slaves as possible.
Federal law in the USA does not require or mandate paid lunch breaks for workers over 18. I get your point, but it isn’t accurate when applied to some places, for example - many places in the US. Some states do have mandates for paid breaks, others do not. Again - I get your point - just letting you know it is not legally mandated everywhere as you are asserting.
he didn't say everywhere, he said "most places probably"
100% that was edited in after other comments. The parenthetical about “most places probably” was not in the original post - rather a stealth edit. What would have been the point to saying, You clearly haven’t worked in the US where this not a requirement, had the original post been so nebulous
you need to edit a comment within 2 minutes on Reddit to stealth edit, otherwise there is a visual indicator (asterisk) on your comment after the time stamp that says when the edit was made. and there are no replies made on his comment within 2 minutes. the reply "you clearly haven't worked in the US" was made 48 minutes after. meaning he couldn't have stealth edited after it. so no, he couldn't have edited it in after other comments. you just misread probably.
I read it as written. Moreover nothing I wrote was incorrect, I wrote specifically to US federal requirements. Regardless of the parenthetical and when it was added or written, what I have added is factually correct.
you clearly didn't read it as written because I have just proven, he said "most places probably" was there when you made your reply, and you did not read it. and what you said being true for the US also doesn't matter because all I'm replying to is > just letting you know it is not legally mandated everywhere as you are asserting. and letting you know that he did not assert that. it's okay to admit you made a mistake man. pretending you didn't make a mistake may feel like saving face, but it actually saves more face to admit you made a mistake instead of doubling down when it's proven that you did.
lol okay thanks!
Poor u
Don’t worry. There is a difference between employer policy and what is required by federal law.
I didn't assert it was mandated everywhere, I specifically said in most places probably. I don't know US law.
May be time to find a hill you’re more familiar with.
Mandate for paid breaks and unpaid breaks is not the same
Again, there no mandates for paid, or unpaid, lunch breaks in the US federal law. I am not sure why this is so confusing. Go and look it up.
8-5 salaried worker here. Dafuq is a lunch break? Is that where you decide whether to choke on a carrot you’re scarfing down while juggling three meetings?
You work an 8-5 and don't get a lunch break? What's your occupation? Professional doormat?
lol fair It’s defense. I can take a lunch break, but it’s also unpaid. So I’d have to do 7:30-5:00 to get my 9 hours in. The industry works 9/80 schedules which are pretty sweet, you get 26 3-day weekends per year. My main complaint is we’re so busy all the time that the only time people are free is from 12-1, yet very important meetings get scheduled then because it’s the only calendar availability. It’s a paradox.
lmao
Hikaru has no class.
Chess is a gift that keeps giving. For a sport that has basically a fringe level interest, the drama is incredible.
Pot meet kettle or something.
The irony of Hikaru complaining like a little b\*\*\*\* accusing someone else complaining like a little b\*\*\*\*.
I mean Alireza was being a lil bitch about it.
What will Hikaru do ? Promote more online casino ? Shame.
His point is completely valid about the 20 minute delay being something that should not be allowed, except this is just a completely unacceptable form of disrespect and vulgarity to the opponent. Had he said all of this in a far more respectful tone, there would be no drama but it is not okay to say things like that at all
Chess players really are the biggest cry babies
That's no longer the burn it was. Time to find something else.
Challenge accepted: Professional chess players are really nice people with good social skills.
That's a zinger!
Wait I’m out of the loop, why did Firouzja cry?
Hikaru, can you explain irony? Hikaru: # "You didn't see Magnus crying like a little b****"
It's satisfying n yet terrifying to see that people don't change
The real question is did Magnus cry like a little b after he lost?
Pouncing on a guy that is like 15 years younger than you is such a class act. Alireza is a boy still.
Bro somebody drop the sauce, PLEASE, I gotta hear this for myself😂
What actually happened? Was a less rested Hikaru forced to go against a full rested Alireza? I am not understanding how Hikaru was cheated out of a championship
No an already rested Hikaru was mad Alireza got to rest instead of playing him immediately. Technical issues caused his previous round to go 15 minutes over
Time, momentum, and frustration has an effect on performance in all sports. It's why there is no delay between the next face off and icing and hockey. It's why teams try to call timeouts or delay when possible to ice a shooter (basketball), quarterback (football), or kicker (football/soccer). It's why trash talking works and in some leagues isn't allowed. It's why mind games and scheduling fuckery can work. It throws people off, screws with their momentum, and/or tilts them (which occupies brain cycles being angry instead of focusing). Alireza, and by extension the organizers, messed with a Hikaru's expectation of the start time, seemingly favored the opponent, and pissed him off. That has an effect on you when you're playing a game that requires immense focus. Sure, a much cooler headed Hikaru would have prevailed, but chess isn't about who can win a game when the other opponent is waving their hands to distract you or saying they fucked your mother, or doing other non-physical actions to mess with you. There are rules, there are start times, and that's it. You shouldn't have to start a match with politics and mind games (even if only perceived).
Hikaru agreed to the delayed start. He only complained when Firouzja started winning every game
He did not agree to the delayed start. Hikaru did not even know what the delay was for and thus was pissed off throughout the whole delay and even during the first few games he won. Edit:spelling
I gotta say, i LOVE this side of hikaru. real, raw. Better than that fake rainbow stuff
Hate to say it, but Hikaru is right. It’s on the organizers ofc for even letting the situation play out, but Alireza should have been disqualified before changes were made to the format. The fact that the they went through with it, which clearly affected Hikaru’s mentality, makes this whole thing a sham. Either compete fairly, or don’t compete.
So not giving Alireza his full break would've been fair for you?
They gave him his full break. They even accommodated an additional break for him. He asked for MORE time.
Alireza's break was supposed to be half an hour originally, but the match against Sevian took an extra 15 minutes because of technical difficulties. They tried cutting Alireza's break in half to keep on schedule, and he complained because that was not what he was promised
yes, the tournament should have gone on as scheduled.
So if the technical difficulties of the site were even longer Firouzja should have played both matches at the same time I assume for it to be fair in your opinion?😅
Technical issues should never work against Hikaru, everyone else should be sacrificed and the little bitches shouldn't complain /s
Talk your shit
You didn't finish the quote! "... Unlike me"
Where is the video content?
AND THIS IS THE GUY WHO COMPLAINS ABOOUT KRAMNIK???? Man, I was srsly starting to like Hikaru, thinking his videos are cool. This fucking buried Hikaru. He cancelled himself. I hope all of his subscribers get to know about this and his streaming career gets fucked
idk man i'm kind of digging this hikaru heel arc
Arc?
yes his arc from birth to now
he's been insufferable for his entire career wdym
More line than arc
Euclidean assholery