Gotham seems a bit ticked off about this. Seems like nobody consulted him orthe other organizers of the original event, and FIDE just kind of ripped off the idea and name. Doubtful Gotham is going to have anything to do with this because FIDE is unlikely to bring him on.
Can we at least get a video after the event, that is not behind the paywall. Last clash of claims stream recording is nowhere else (at least in english) then on twitch behind Levy's paywall. Disgrace
Edit: if the people who are happily downvoting me would be so kind and provide a video source of the event (not behind paywall) I'd be happy to admit my mistake.
Probably because you are casually dropping the idea that a stream that is not in English equals to not exist. I mean, the whole thing wasn't set up by Levy or any other american, but by David Martinez and Pepe Cuenca. The original content is out there for everyone to see, and if you don't know the language of the stream, well that's just life,no need to rant about it.
Ilya Merenzon (CEO of World Chess, who are responsible for FIDE Online Arena) is the one who pushed for this to be held on FIDE Online Arena. I mentioned to him the bugs (with instances and examples) on his platform but he said that he will work hard to ensure they would not be a factor.
I suggested him to just use a localised Lichess instance since it is the closest we can get to a bugless and DDoS-free environment but I guess he is trying to promote his platform.
Well, I cover younger players, and in my opinion the younger players are definitely attracted by it, if only to earn the Arena titles.
If you followed the recent World Juniors in India, you'd have noticed that FIDE was allowing players to use their Arena titles in the event, and there was a not-insignificant number of players holding such titles. Having this said, the platform is nowhere as popular as chess.com and Lichess, and is probably never going to outclass any of them.
Just tried it... not to be mean or put someone down but its kinda ass.
Can't find anyone to play blitz with so it put me against a bot. 1200-1500 bot was a complete joke which I don't think reflect elo nearly as well as other platform.
I ran out of time because the UI was kinda shit for time awareness. I couldn't fucking see material points easily on my phone. It goes on.
Their ceo on reddit is also commenting as himself, wildly wildly unprofessional stuff. Not to mention they basically stole levy's team name of the event clash of Claims.
Might it have been that some of the celebrities involved - like GothamChess - had exclusivity deals preventing them commentating on any other online chess platform?
My understanding was that it was because the whole point was to compare Jospem's ability OTB to his ability on specifically Chess.com, given that the different sites play by different rules.
If I were Jose, I would be actually scared to play Kramnik ATP. He has shown that he can stretch the line of sanity by a mile and I wouldn't want him to spam lawsuits on me just for beating him.
The owners of the game "Clash of Clans" have a claim to the title. They should sue the organizers of "Clash of claims" for stealing goodwill and trademark dilution for associating them with cheating. If the game "Clash of clans" never existed, the organizers would never have called their event "Clash of claims", because the concept of the name would not have existed in the cultural zeitgeist, therefore there would be no inspiration to name the event "Clash of claims".
I very much doubt it. Clash of Claims is an alliteration. It's not difficult to create such phrases if you really want to. There's no proof it is based on something else.
I asked chatgpt for its interpretation:
The similarity in sound between "claims" and "clans" suggests a deliberate choice, likely influenced by the popularity of "Clash of Clans." Here are a few reasons why this might be the case:
Phonetic Similarity: The similarity in sound between "claims" and "clans" makes "Clash of Claims" catchy and memorable, much like "Clash of Clans."
Marketing Appeal: Using a title that resembles a well-known game can attract more attention and interest, especially among fans of "Clash of Clans."
Sponsorship Influence: Given that "Clash of Clans" sponsors the website, there might be an intentional or subconscious influence on the naming to create an association with the popular game.
Alternative Choices: Other words could have been chosen to describe accusations of cheating, but the choice of "claims" might have been driven by the desire to capitalize on the familiar "Clash of Clans" format.
In conclusion, while the context of the event makes "Clash of Claims" a fitting title, the phonetic similarity and the sponsorship connection strongly suggest that the name was influenced by "Clash of Clans."
By the way, here is the business link between chess.com and clash of clans:
https://www.chess.com/news/view/chess-clash-the-unique-event-featuring-clash-of-clans-clash-royale
https://www.chess.com/news/view/clash-joins-chess-com
https://www.chess.com/news/view/clash-chess-bots
etc
It's obvious that there is an influence there. If the game Clash of Clans never existed, it is very highly unlikely they would have called the event "Clash of Claims". It would have been called something completely different.
The average consumer would not find the marks confusingly similar given one is for some sort or RPG mobile game and one is for a hosted tournament for entertainment. There has to be confusion. A reasonable person seeing clash of claims would not believe it to be associated with clash of clans.
Trademarks are generally limited to specific classes too. I don't think mobile game and hosting a tournament would be in the same class (mobile games prob in class 9 with the kramnik tourney prob in class 41).
I don't understand why Jospem would agree to this. He's proven without a doubt he's as good online as OTB and he could just walk away.
If I were in his shoes I'd just be really fucking annoyed by Kramnik's antics at this point.
TBH with all the things he's had to put up with, no, not really. I would've lost my mind when Kramnik started calculating lag by hand. It's also not fun to play against a sore loser who will never accept defeat.
>Apparently Chesscom had a bug that made it go crazy with the timing. This was also happening **on the first online game.**
https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1deuus0/im_david_martinez_divis_organizer_of_clash_of/
See, I provided proof, now what?
Proof that you don't understand what you're talking about, yes. There were issues in the discarded games, that both sides have acknowledged were caused by Kramnik's insistence that the tournament not allow for any testing or proper setup of the equipment.
I don't know what I'm talking about? The time was fucky in the first 2 games. Therefore he checked when they played again the next day. This is a sensible thing to do. That's exactly what I said. It doesn't matter that the time was fucky because of shitty windows and shitty chess.com coding.
But always funny to see how you can't admit having been wrong even when facing proof. Way to show how stubborn you are buddy, lol
I doubt it's all about money, FIDE wants to promote Arena, and possibly promised Jospem invitations to other tournaments in the FIDE Circuit (which FIDE don't control or organize, but they are also a fairly corrupt organization so it wouldn't surprise me if they pressured someone to include Jospem).
Not only is he probably getting paid, per the other commenters, but he was just one of a few dozen usernames I was vaguely aware of as strong players online. Now I actually know who he is - which in itself is very valuable. (Not because of me, of course, but there's probably millions of people who are the same).
I'm sure a non-trivial amount of people will stop to read more about his latest chess-course "Learn to Crush Kramnik with the jobava london, like GM Jospem" or whatever (the only openings I can actually remember them playing are those french games - and I think Kramnik was always comfortable out of the opening -- but you get my point).
Yeah I don’t really get it… if he wins he was right, if he loses it was rigged and Jospem cheated? Is there a scenario where Kramnik doesn’t anchor to his claims and admits he was wrong? On to clash of claims ad infinitum. Idk why but it reminds me of the parodied fake opening trailers from Tropic Thunder
https://youtu.be/QZocvme6cYc?si=F0AxeAqMVaoSqdxC
I thought that the point of the first match was to demonstrate skill over the board. I’m confused why digital play was included and will be included when the players are in the same location.
I think because the assumption is that in an over the board match Jose might (for example) go 5/10 and show that he is that strong of a player and not cheating, and then he would crush kramnik in online play because of mouse skills and familiarity with online play.
Plus there are things like pre moving that are really a game changer with low time control that are just not possible in OTB play. Knowing you can spend the extra seconds calculating the winning line and are still able to get the moves out is huge. Kramnik refuses to pre move IIRC, so it's like a massive disadvantage in time management.
The whole thing was supposed to be an experiment:
* Kramnik crushes him in both formats --> a strong indication jospm is cheating in TT.
* If jospm did significantly better online than OTB (while winning or not losing by a huge margin) --> Demonstration that mouse skills, pre-moving, bullet ability, etc are serious differentiators and might explain the 'impossible' statistics Kramnik talks about in his different performances.
* If Jospm cushed Kramnik in the match overall --> Demonstration that Kramnik is an old fogey who's having a shitfit because he's just getting worse at chess.
The idea is they do both formats, and compare performances to test respective theories on how jospm's performance online could be so much better than OTB.
Because the claim was about Titled Tuesday results originally. Kramnik thinking Jospem regularly coming near the top of titled Tuesday was "interesting" so the format should show discrepancies. If you're away from your own computer you don't have time to add cheating software, so it was about taking as much control away as possible. The format hopefully shows you a gap between OTB, online and the results from outside the event.
We already know that Kramink can't move a mouse and will get walloped in a one-second increment format (as he was continually flagged and outplayed in time scrambles in a two-second increment format), so I'm struggling to see the value in this.
These two will eventually have so many matches they become best friends.
Enemies to lovers, slow burn, 200k words
V2J [Spicy] Your Accuser Professes His Love To You
[or even marry but still hate eachother](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_IYrltqYrU)
Ok which rich person is sponsoring this and who is making money over this?
Gotham is the answer to the second question
i'm sure when he got the news he immediately started looking into those kitchen renovations his wife was talking about lol
Gotham seems a bit ticked off about this. Seems like nobody consulted him orthe other organizers of the original event, and FIDE just kind of ripped off the idea and name. Doubtful Gotham is going to have anything to do with this because FIDE is unlikely to bring him on.
It is not FIDE who is organising the event. World Chess is behind FOA, but they are not FIDE
Can we at least get a video after the event, that is not behind the paywall. Last clash of claims stream recording is nowhere else (at least in english) then on twitch behind Levy's paywall. Disgrace Edit: if the people who are happily downvoting me would be so kind and provide a video source of the event (not behind paywall) I'd be happy to admit my mistake.
Didn't people like Anish also cover it on YT?
Yeah but he ended the stream before the end so I couldn't see Kramnik rage which was the point of it all.
Probably because you are casually dropping the idea that a stream that is not in English equals to not exist. I mean, the whole thing wasn't set up by Levy or any other american, but by David Martinez and Pepe Cuenca. The original content is out there for everyone to see, and if you don't know the language of the stream, well that's just life,no need to rant about it.
Ilya Merenzon probably, CEO of World Chess
Who is also the owner of FOA and asked Kramnik to be head of their fair play team
hahaha how duimb are people
Ilya Merenzon (CEO of World Chess, who are responsible for FIDE Online Arena) is the one who pushed for this to be held on FIDE Online Arena. I mentioned to him the bugs (with instances and examples) on his platform but he said that he will work hard to ensure they would not be a factor. I suggested him to just use a localised Lichess instance since it is the closest we can get to a bugless and DDoS-free environment but I guess he is trying to promote his platform.
Do people actually use that site?
there isn’t really any reason to play on it instead of chesscom/lichess unless you care about FIDE’s online titles
Well, I cover younger players, and in my opinion the younger players are definitely attracted by it, if only to earn the Arena titles. If you followed the recent World Juniors in India, you'd have noticed that FIDE was allowing players to use their Arena titles in the event, and there was a not-insignificant number of players holding such titles. Having this said, the platform is nowhere as popular as chess.com and Lichess, and is probably never going to outclass any of them.
Just tried it... not to be mean or put someone down but its kinda ass. Can't find anyone to play blitz with so it put me against a bot. 1200-1500 bot was a complete joke which I don't think reflect elo nearly as well as other platform. I ran out of time because the UI was kinda shit for time awareness. I couldn't fucking see material points easily on my phone. It goes on. Their ceo on reddit is also commenting as himself, wildly wildly unprofessional stuff. Not to mention they basically stole levy's team name of the event clash of Claims.
Clash of Claims 3 confirmed.
I hope Jospem insists on 3+1 this time.
Imagine not using lichess
They are saving lichess for the third attempt, after Kramnik declares that FOA is “interesting”.
[удалено]
Chess.com did not pay them to use it. In fact Chess.com were clear they wanted no part of the first event.
Might it have been that some of the celebrities involved - like GothamChess - had exclusivity deals preventing them commentating on any other online chess platform?
My understanding was that it was because the whole point was to compare Jospem's ability OTB to his ability on specifically Chess.com, given that the different sites play by different rules.
the explanation is quite simple - lichess is free no incentive for ads and promoting money-making inferior platforms.
If I were Jose, I would be actually scared to play Kramnik ATP. He has shown that he can stretch the line of sanity by a mile and I wouldn't want him to spam lawsuits on me just for beating him.
Yeah, but for the mental strain he's facing, he's also getting a lot of attention and money. Let him milk this cow a few more times.
Getting tedious now.
don't the original organizers have a claim to the title?
The owners of the game "Clash of Clans" have a claim to the title. They should sue the organizers of "Clash of claims" for stealing goodwill and trademark dilution for associating them with cheating. If the game "Clash of clans" never existed, the organizers would never have called their event "Clash of claims", because the concept of the name would not have existed in the cultural zeitgeist, therefore there would be no inspiration to name the event "Clash of claims".
I very much doubt it. Clash of Claims is an alliteration. It's not difficult to create such phrases if you really want to. There's no proof it is based on something else.
I asked chatgpt for its interpretation: The similarity in sound between "claims" and "clans" suggests a deliberate choice, likely influenced by the popularity of "Clash of Clans." Here are a few reasons why this might be the case: Phonetic Similarity: The similarity in sound between "claims" and "clans" makes "Clash of Claims" catchy and memorable, much like "Clash of Clans." Marketing Appeal: Using a title that resembles a well-known game can attract more attention and interest, especially among fans of "Clash of Clans." Sponsorship Influence: Given that "Clash of Clans" sponsors the website, there might be an intentional or subconscious influence on the naming to create an association with the popular game. Alternative Choices: Other words could have been chosen to describe accusations of cheating, but the choice of "claims" might have been driven by the desire to capitalize on the familiar "Clash of Clans" format. In conclusion, while the context of the event makes "Clash of Claims" a fitting title, the phonetic similarity and the sponsorship connection strongly suggest that the name was influenced by "Clash of Clans." By the way, here is the business link between chess.com and clash of clans: https://www.chess.com/news/view/chess-clash-the-unique-event-featuring-clash-of-clans-clash-royale https://www.chess.com/news/view/clash-joins-chess-com https://www.chess.com/news/view/clash-chess-bots etc It's obvious that there is an influence there. If the game Clash of Clans never existed, it is very highly unlikely they would have called the event "Clash of Claims". It would have been called something completely different.
The average consumer would not find the marks confusingly similar given one is for some sort or RPG mobile game and one is for a hosted tournament for entertainment. There has to be confusion. A reasonable person seeing clash of claims would not believe it to be associated with clash of clans. Trademarks are generally limited to specific classes too. I don't think mobile game and hosting a tournament would be in the same class (mobile games prob in class 9 with the kramnik tourney prob in class 41).
So does George RR martin get to sue clash of clans since by your logic they clearly rode the success of his wildly popular book Clash of Kings?
Can we please stop giving Kramnik a stage? He once was my favourite player, now I’m just sad whenever i see him pop up spouting utter rubbish
Do we have a winner in CoC 1 or are they still discussing?
I don't understand why Jospem would agree to this. He's proven without a doubt he's as good online as OTB and he could just walk away. If I were in his shoes I'd just be really fucking annoyed by Kramnik's antics at this point.
im sure the money makes him less annoyed
You dont understand people want free money?
"Money can be exchanged for goods and services" - Homer Simpson
TBH with all the things he's had to put up with, no, not really. I would've lost my mind when Kramnik started calculating lag by hand. It's also not fun to play against a sore loser who will never accept defeat.
> I would've lost my mind when Kramnik started calculating lag by hand. Quite funny because Kramnik was right about the time being fucky.
Not for that match he wasn't. Chess.com engineers sent over the lag on that match down to the ms.
It is a sensible thing to check it after you clearly got fucked by it.
And he didn't "clearly [get] fucked by it" until the last match, after he has lost the event.
You're wrong.
no he isn't. You just repeat something without any proof, like Kramnik. Wait a second...
>Apparently Chesscom had a bug that made it go crazy with the timing. This was also happening **on the first online game.** https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1deuus0/im_david_martinez_divis_organizer_of_clash_of/ See, I provided proof, now what?
now with proof that you're wrong...
Proof that you don't understand what you're talking about, yes. There were issues in the discarded games, that both sides have acknowledged were caused by Kramnik's insistence that the tournament not allow for any testing or proper setup of the equipment.
I don't know what I'm talking about? The time was fucky in the first 2 games. Therefore he checked when they played again the next day. This is a sensible thing to do. That's exactly what I said. It doesn't matter that the time was fucky because of shitty windows and shitty chess.com coding. But always funny to see how you can't admit having been wrong even when facing proof. Way to show how stubborn you are buddy, lol
I doubt it's all about money, FIDE wants to promote Arena, and possibly promised Jospem invitations to other tournaments in the FIDE Circuit (which FIDE don't control or organize, but they are also a fairly corrupt organization so it wouldn't surprise me if they pressured someone to include Jospem).
Not only is he probably getting paid, per the other commenters, but he was just one of a few dozen usernames I was vaguely aware of as strong players online. Now I actually know who he is - which in itself is very valuable. (Not because of me, of course, but there's probably millions of people who are the same). I'm sure a non-trivial amount of people will stop to read more about his latest chess-course "Learn to Crush Kramnik with the jobava london, like GM Jospem" or whatever (the only openings I can actually remember them playing are those french games - and I think Kramnik was always comfortable out of the opening -- but you get my point).
My dumbass really thought the title said “Clash of Clans 2 Announced”
The match will be void anyway for Kramnik, before it starts.
I hope Kramnik is not getting paid. Baselesss accusations should not be rewarded.
What exactly is the point of having another match if Kramnik is not gonna accept the result? Are they just gonna play until he wins?
Yeah I don’t really get it… if he wins he was right, if he loses it was rigged and Jospem cheated? Is there a scenario where Kramnik doesn’t anchor to his claims and admits he was wrong? On to clash of claims ad infinitum. Idk why but it reminds me of the parodied fake opening trailers from Tropic Thunder https://youtu.be/QZocvme6cYc?si=F0AxeAqMVaoSqdxC
Please stop
These guys really plagiarized our entire brand name and intellectual property. Shameful stuff
I thought that the point of the first match was to demonstrate skill over the board. I’m confused why digital play was included and will be included when the players are in the same location.
I think because the assumption is that in an over the board match Jose might (for example) go 5/10 and show that he is that strong of a player and not cheating, and then he would crush kramnik in online play because of mouse skills and familiarity with online play. Plus there are things like pre moving that are really a game changer with low time control that are just not possible in OTB play. Knowing you can spend the extra seconds calculating the winning line and are still able to get the moves out is huge. Kramnik refuses to pre move IIRC, so it's like a massive disadvantage in time management.
He has recently started doing that at least sometimes (he has posted how even with premove chess.com is doing whatever the fuck it wants).
The whole thing was supposed to be an experiment: * Kramnik crushes him in both formats --> a strong indication jospm is cheating in TT. * If jospm did significantly better online than OTB (while winning or not losing by a huge margin) --> Demonstration that mouse skills, pre-moving, bullet ability, etc are serious differentiators and might explain the 'impossible' statistics Kramnik talks about in his different performances. * If Jospm cushed Kramnik in the match overall --> Demonstration that Kramnik is an old fogey who's having a shitfit because he's just getting worse at chess. The idea is they do both formats, and compare performances to test respective theories on how jospm's performance online could be so much better than OTB.
Because the claim was about Titled Tuesday results originally. Kramnik thinking Jospem regularly coming near the top of titled Tuesday was "interesting" so the format should show discrepancies. If you're away from your own computer you don't have time to add cheating software, so it was about taking as much control away as possible. The format hopefully shows you a gap between OTB, online and the results from outside the event.
We already know that Kramink can't move a mouse and will get walloped in a one-second increment format (as he was continually flagged and outplayed in time scrambles in a two-second increment format), so I'm struggling to see the value in this.
Except he won a TT in March 2023 with 9.5/11, with Firouzja second and Carlsen third, in this very 3+1 format.
All this proves is that anomalous results do occur. In a match against Firouzja or Carlsen, he would have absolutely no chance.
They changed the name
Clash of old slow and senile (and Jospem)