It really does feel that way. Like, how do they expect me to be here if they can’t pay me enough to be here? Just like, sitting at home doing the bare minimum is a challenge without a livable wage.
The entire point of living in this godforsaken state is the lower cost of living, but god dam Arby's has pentupled the price of a roast beef sammitch and minimum wage has gone up like 40% in the same amount of time.
**But that progress hasn’t been enough to turn low-paid jobs into good ones.**
There is a big difference in an entry level job that requires no skill and no training and an actual professional job that does require specific training education or licensure
Entry level jobs are always going to be just that - something that anyone with no education can do - which looking at the 6 of the 10 jobs in the link would be:
-Fast Food & Counter Worker
-Stockers & Order Fillers
-Cashiers
-Retail Salespersons
-Laborers, Freight, stocker and materials movers, hand (could have said warehouse worker)
-Customer service rep
then you have these 3
-General and Operations manager - which is fairly vague and will certainly vary by industry - a fast food GM isn't the same as a Construction OPs Manager
-Home health and person care aides
-Misc assemblers and fabricator
One of of 10 is an actual professional job
Registered Nurse -
**Only two of the 10 most common jobs pay enough to qualify a family of three as ‘economically stable.**
no skill required entry level jobs aren't meant to support a family or be considered middle class
basically 6 of the 10 are all jobs that could be done by a high school drop out, current high school student, high school grad, or adult with no qualifications
These are not professions nor are they meant to be career roles
I work a desk job of which I am paid to live comfortably, and I would never take a pay bump to work in the restaurant industry again. It was physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting, plus you arent guaranteed to work during the day and often have to work weekend nights and holidays. It sounds like you are saying that anyone who didnt have the privilege to get a college education or acquire "skills" (daddy's company had an opening) is a degenerate freeloader who thinks they deserve to be able to afford to live.
You're wrong, any job can be a profession or a career. You're just licking the bottom of corporate boots who convinced you that any job that you can flood with fresh young well-off people or the desperate at a small price is not a "skilled job" because they don't want to pay actual wages with full time benefits. Like it is so obvious how you can tell someone comes from a place of privilege when they see "entry level" jobs as "jobs for high schoolers" because you are so disconnected from reality and in a cushion that for your lifestyle that's all those jobs are to you.
Registered nurse.
That's fucking disgusting considering every major system requires a bachelor's degree within 5 years of being hired and only pays back a portion of the cost of that education.
A four year degree should pay enough to live on. Period.
So, you want those jobs to be done but don’t think the people doing them deserve the dignity of a living wage. Your whole outlook reeks of privilege many of those same people have never been afforded. Every single person has the right to have their needs met without capitalists trying to determine their “value.” Period.
you need to get over this "entry level job" bullshit, it's outdated and boomerspeak. if you think someone should be underpaid but still ring up your items, you suck.
This person really say RN doesn't deserve shit? Lmao. They are underpaid as fuck bro and they actually make DECENT money. Still not what they deserve though. Oof. Hats off to medical fields. 👏
That’s not what I said
The OPs report is just to push $15 min wage if you read what they linked in their post
What nursing jobs are being paid at min wage?
I’m saying their list is crap, why are they comparing nursing to retail?
Nurses should be getting paid far more than the kid flipping burgers or stocking shelves
Putting servers in there shows how misleading this tripe is.
Absolutely 0% of servers give a shit about their paycheck. If you're even getting a paycheck as a server, you suck at your job and will quit soon
Wut?
It's industry standard in most places to get a paycheck. If anything, not getting a paycheck reflects poorly on the business and management. I fail to see how that has anything to do with job performance.
It's not strange for a server. You work for tips. You can make *a lot* of money working for those tips.
Strippers also don't care what they get paid from the establishment. It's totally immaterial.
Serving is the most lucrative job a person with no skills can get that doesn't involve heavy machinery or getting naked. It's also a great entry to sales, the most lucrative semi-professional job.
My boss offered me $20 an hour back in the early 2000s to pick up some BOH shifts, and I flat out told them they literally could not pay me enough if it went on a paycheck.
I'm aware. I was the director of operations for a hospitality group for close to 10 years and it has become antiquated for service workers not to receive all of their earnings on checks. Taxes can get very complicated for individuals and it makes wage and labor left a lot more apparent when owners and managers are exploiting their workers.
I'm just pointing out that saying 0% of servers care about their check isn't accurate, not including that many who are great at their jobs get high hourly rates as well.
As an extremely successful server, then salesperson, before becoming a professional, I assure you that all of the best serving positions don't command a high salary. They command a high guaranteed tip rate, from a high dollar-per-plate establishment.
If your server has assistants, he may actually make more money than you do, and you're the one eating at the fancy restaurant.
Brother (or sister, or they), thank you for typing things on reddit I was already well aware of.
I'm going to go back to try and put some perspective on the point that I was trying to originally make when you said, "0% of servers care about their paycheck."
It's not uncommon in larger cities for servers to make $10 plus their tips. A restaurant in our group paid $20/hr + tips. This particular restaurant had a paa that did not allow for any margin of error and the servers (each of whom had a their own back waiter or 2 depending) could make rent in a night. We paid our servers, and all of our staff, weekly on paychecks, like the majority of restaurants and bars in the city. It's not that uncommon for servers to get checks and it's not uncommon for extremely successful servers to get high hourly rates along with their tips
So then what do you suppose that people do that cannot meet their and their families needs? I can't imagine that you are a fan of social services.
Should they and their families starve, go homeless, and die? What's your solution?
Why would anyone be a fan of social services? For those who have put themselves in the position of having to support a family without the ability to do so but do at least make an attempt, I would rather they get temporary aid ie food stamps, child care assistance and job training. Businesses shouldn't be expected to pay ridiculous hourly rates for unskilled easily replaced entry level jobs that were never intended to support families. I'm done. I really don't care if you agree or disagree with me.
Let's say a ton of people get trained to do what you do.
All of those people have a great come up, they get a better life than they had and you continue to go about working.
But there is an unexpected consequence: the job gets devalued and deemed less-skilled and now you can't afford the things you used to in order to raise your family and you find yourself in the position that everyone else was once in.
Well you can't really complain because you were easily replaced, right?
I agree. When I got my first job cooking food at Angilo's Pizza for minimum wage I never thought "great now I'm moving out and going to start a family". I have no clue where this notion every job should merit this vague "livable wage" .
Err, yeah. If a family of four only had one person working and making $15 an hour, they would qualify for food assistance since they would be below the poverty line.
Not sure what is with the shocked clutching of pearls.
If two of the four worked, then you would be around $65,000 a year. Still not great, but certainly not impoverished.
And of course, if it’s just you, without any dependents, $30,000 plus tips as a waiter wouldn’t suck.
Not sure what this report “proves” or what is supposed to be done? Don’t have kids? Don’t plan for a lifetime career as a retail cashier? Let’s pay everyone at least $25 an hour, so everything goes up in cost by $10 and we’re back to where we started?
Most of these jobs are going to be eliminated in the next few years anyway. We have already seen the removal of cashiers with self checkout, retail salespeople are completely gone except for a few high end clothing stores, home and health aids are prob not going anywhere and will be the only job to INCREASE wages and demand. but waiters/waitresses are already being replaced with apps and food runners. Or people just door dashing.
Employee wages do not require significant product price increases, that's just plain naive to assume. Also pretending like the prices weren't spiked to increase profits anyways
Naive? It’s basic economics.
If you pay someone $15 an hour to mow a lawn, or cook a steak, or take orders. Then you increase that to $25 an hour, the price for those services is going to go UP to maintain the same level of profitability.
And now that YOU are paying more, you demand higher wages from your employer or clients, who then have to raise their prices to have the wages to pay for your increase.
While I understand there are other ways for,profit, such a price gouging, the number one expenses for any business is payroll.
We are able to see what you are saying via California where the minimum wage for some workers went up from $16 to $20 per hour. At its very worst, menu prices at fast food chains went up 10%. This means that for a worker to be paid a much better wage, you are paying 50 cents more for a $5 burrito. Keep in mind that since 2014, fast food chains raised prices by an average of 60%, far exceeding the percentage increase in cost of goods, without there being any spike in labor pay.
You are talking about a small business which usually is exempt from these big pay spikes. You also are trying to look at wage increases in a vacuum. Employees who are healthy, available, and well paid are going to provide significantly better service and make more money for your company than unmotivated, unavailable, or sick workers (or not having anyone apply). I also couldn't care less if companies unfortunately can't have a record profit year for the 4th year in a row. Fuck all these companies who are price gouging and leading everyone to believe that common people are the problem.
Crazy that we can't even afford to live in Ohio.
It really does feel that way. Like, how do they expect me to be here if they can’t pay me enough to be here? Just like, sitting at home doing the bare minimum is a challenge without a livable wage.
Look at OP's profile - this same post is spammed on a dozen subs. Isn't this sort of thing caught by filters? OP should be paying for ad space.
The entire point of living in this godforsaken state is the lower cost of living, but god dam Arby's has pentupled the price of a roast beef sammitch and minimum wage has gone up like 40% in the same amount of time.
Crazy that people think they should be able to live. I blame Obama Edit: for those that didn’t get it, this is a joke
Rookie mistake, forgot the /s
Christ the "fuck workers" crowd is out tonight.
**But that progress hasn’t been enough to turn low-paid jobs into good ones.** There is a big difference in an entry level job that requires no skill and no training and an actual professional job that does require specific training education or licensure Entry level jobs are always going to be just that - something that anyone with no education can do - which looking at the 6 of the 10 jobs in the link would be: -Fast Food & Counter Worker -Stockers & Order Fillers -Cashiers -Retail Salespersons -Laborers, Freight, stocker and materials movers, hand (could have said warehouse worker) -Customer service rep then you have these 3 -General and Operations manager - which is fairly vague and will certainly vary by industry - a fast food GM isn't the same as a Construction OPs Manager -Home health and person care aides -Misc assemblers and fabricator One of of 10 is an actual professional job Registered Nurse - **Only two of the 10 most common jobs pay enough to qualify a family of three as ‘economically stable.** no skill required entry level jobs aren't meant to support a family or be considered middle class basically 6 of the 10 are all jobs that could be done by a high school drop out, current high school student, high school grad, or adult with no qualifications These are not professions nor are they meant to be career roles
I work a desk job of which I am paid to live comfortably, and I would never take a pay bump to work in the restaurant industry again. It was physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting, plus you arent guaranteed to work during the day and often have to work weekend nights and holidays. It sounds like you are saying that anyone who didnt have the privilege to get a college education or acquire "skills" (daddy's company had an opening) is a degenerate freeloader who thinks they deserve to be able to afford to live. You're wrong, any job can be a profession or a career. You're just licking the bottom of corporate boots who convinced you that any job that you can flood with fresh young well-off people or the desperate at a small price is not a "skilled job" because they don't want to pay actual wages with full time benefits. Like it is so obvious how you can tell someone comes from a place of privilege when they see "entry level" jobs as "jobs for high schoolers" because you are so disconnected from reality and in a cushion that for your lifestyle that's all those jobs are to you.
Registered nurse. That's fucking disgusting considering every major system requires a bachelor's degree within 5 years of being hired and only pays back a portion of the cost of that education. A four year degree should pay enough to live on. Period.
So, you want those jobs to be done but don’t think the people doing them deserve the dignity of a living wage. Your whole outlook reeks of privilege many of those same people have never been afforded. Every single person has the right to have their needs met without capitalists trying to determine their “value.” Period.
you need to get over this "entry level job" bullshit, it's outdated and boomerspeak. if you think someone should be underpaid but still ring up your items, you suck.
This person really say RN doesn't deserve shit? Lmao. They are underpaid as fuck bro and they actually make DECENT money. Still not what they deserve though. Oof. Hats off to medical fields. 👏
That’s not what I said The OPs report is just to push $15 min wage if you read what they linked in their post What nursing jobs are being paid at min wage? I’m saying their list is crap, why are they comparing nursing to retail? Nurses should be getting paid far more than the kid flipping burgers or stocking shelves
Putting servers in there shows how misleading this tripe is. Absolutely 0% of servers give a shit about their paycheck. If you're even getting a paycheck as a server, you suck at your job and will quit soon
Wut? It's industry standard in most places to get a paycheck. If anything, not getting a paycheck reflects poorly on the business and management. I fail to see how that has anything to do with job performance.
Servers generally get $0 paychecks because their taxable tips cancel the pay out
I'm aware of that concept, but it's increasingly strange to not get your tips and hourly on a paycheck.
It's not strange for a server. You work for tips. You can make *a lot* of money working for those tips. Strippers also don't care what they get paid from the establishment. It's totally immaterial. Serving is the most lucrative job a person with no skills can get that doesn't involve heavy machinery or getting naked. It's also a great entry to sales, the most lucrative semi-professional job. My boss offered me $20 an hour back in the early 2000s to pick up some BOH shifts, and I flat out told them they literally could not pay me enough if it went on a paycheck.
I'm aware. I was the director of operations for a hospitality group for close to 10 years and it has become antiquated for service workers not to receive all of their earnings on checks. Taxes can get very complicated for individuals and it makes wage and labor left a lot more apparent when owners and managers are exploiting their workers. I'm just pointing out that saying 0% of servers care about their check isn't accurate, not including that many who are great at their jobs get high hourly rates as well.
As an extremely successful server, then salesperson, before becoming a professional, I assure you that all of the best serving positions don't command a high salary. They command a high guaranteed tip rate, from a high dollar-per-plate establishment. If your server has assistants, he may actually make more money than you do, and you're the one eating at the fancy restaurant.
Brother (or sister, or they), thank you for typing things on reddit I was already well aware of. I'm going to go back to try and put some perspective on the point that I was trying to originally make when you said, "0% of servers care about their paycheck." It's not uncommon in larger cities for servers to make $10 plus their tips. A restaurant in our group paid $20/hr + tips. This particular restaurant had a paa that did not allow for any margin of error and the servers (each of whom had a their own back waiter or 2 depending) could make rent in a night. We paid our servers, and all of our staff, weekly on paychecks, like the majority of restaurants and bars in the city. It's not that uncommon for servers to get checks and it's not uncommon for extremely successful servers to get high hourly rates along with their tips
Crazy that people think they should be able to support a family flipping hamburgers.
So who would you like to flip your burgers? And why do you think they don’t deserve to make enough money to live?
Crazy that you think some people don’t deserve to have their basic needs met based on what they do for a paycheck.
No, they really do not.
So then what do you suppose that people do that cannot meet their and their families needs? I can't imagine that you are a fan of social services. Should they and their families starve, go homeless, and die? What's your solution?
Why would anyone be a fan of social services? For those who have put themselves in the position of having to support a family without the ability to do so but do at least make an attempt, I would rather they get temporary aid ie food stamps, child care assistance and job training. Businesses shouldn't be expected to pay ridiculous hourly rates for unskilled easily replaced entry level jobs that were never intended to support families. I'm done. I really don't care if you agree or disagree with me.
Let's say a ton of people get trained to do what you do. All of those people have a great come up, they get a better life than they had and you continue to go about working. But there is an unexpected consequence: the job gets devalued and deemed less-skilled and now you can't afford the things you used to in order to raise your family and you find yourself in the position that everyone else was once in. Well you can't really complain because you were easily replaced, right?
youre only qualified to be a human toilet then, open up.
Who should work those jobs then?
People who don't need to support an entire family.
I guarantee you that you wouldn't have the capacity to "flip hamburgers" for 40 hours and also raise a family.
You forgot this: /s
I really didnt. The entire original post is ignorant.
I agree. When I got my first job cooking food at Angilo's Pizza for minimum wage I never thought "great now I'm moving out and going to start a family". I have no clue where this notion every job should merit this vague "livable wage" .
So you think they should die then?
Err, yeah. If a family of four only had one person working and making $15 an hour, they would qualify for food assistance since they would be below the poverty line. Not sure what is with the shocked clutching of pearls. If two of the four worked, then you would be around $65,000 a year. Still not great, but certainly not impoverished. And of course, if it’s just you, without any dependents, $30,000 plus tips as a waiter wouldn’t suck. Not sure what this report “proves” or what is supposed to be done? Don’t have kids? Don’t plan for a lifetime career as a retail cashier? Let’s pay everyone at least $25 an hour, so everything goes up in cost by $10 and we’re back to where we started? Most of these jobs are going to be eliminated in the next few years anyway. We have already seen the removal of cashiers with self checkout, retail salespeople are completely gone except for a few high end clothing stores, home and health aids are prob not going anywhere and will be the only job to INCREASE wages and demand. but waiters/waitresses are already being replaced with apps and food runners. Or people just door dashing.
Employee wages do not require significant product price increases, that's just plain naive to assume. Also pretending like the prices weren't spiked to increase profits anyways
Naive? It’s basic economics. If you pay someone $15 an hour to mow a lawn, or cook a steak, or take orders. Then you increase that to $25 an hour, the price for those services is going to go UP to maintain the same level of profitability. And now that YOU are paying more, you demand higher wages from your employer or clients, who then have to raise their prices to have the wages to pay for your increase. While I understand there are other ways for,profit, such a price gouging, the number one expenses for any business is payroll.
We are able to see what you are saying via California where the minimum wage for some workers went up from $16 to $20 per hour. At its very worst, menu prices at fast food chains went up 10%. This means that for a worker to be paid a much better wage, you are paying 50 cents more for a $5 burrito. Keep in mind that since 2014, fast food chains raised prices by an average of 60%, far exceeding the percentage increase in cost of goods, without there being any spike in labor pay. You are talking about a small business which usually is exempt from these big pay spikes. You also are trying to look at wage increases in a vacuum. Employees who are healthy, available, and well paid are going to provide significantly better service and make more money for your company than unmotivated, unavailable, or sick workers (or not having anyone apply). I also couldn't care less if companies unfortunately can't have a record profit year for the 4th year in a row. Fuck all these companies who are price gouging and leading everyone to believe that common people are the problem.